The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Confessions Of A U.K. Crime Lord: How An Indian Immigrant Became Britain's Most FEARED Gangster

Episode Date: November 10, 2024

Step into the gritty underworld of Britain with Chet Sandhu, one of the most notorious gangsters the country has ever seen. Born to Indian immigrants and raised amidst racial hostility in northern England, Chet faced a harsh reality from a young age. Driven by revenge and a desire to protect his family, he navigated from a troubled childhood to becoming a powerful figure in the UK’s crime scene. From his beginnings as a steroid dealer to leading one of Britain’s most infamous criminal operations, Chet's story is one of brutality, survival, and unexpected alliances. Go Support Chet! Book: https://a.co/d/8FfoBcv IG: https://www.instagram.com/chetsandhu666/ Website: https://chetsandhu.com/ This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: MANDO! Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with Mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code MITCHELL at https://shopmando.com #mandopod True Classic! Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @TrueClassic at https://trueclassic.com/connect! #trueclassicpod Mint Mobile! Support the show and get your new 3-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month at https://mintmobile.com/connect Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Revenge, anger, how they spoke to my mom, what I did to my mother, what I did to my dad, what they did to me. I hated them. I wanted death on them. And then I took my vengeance out and all them. I tracked them all down and fucked them all up. Did you see him remembering at that moment who you were? Yes. And he realized that this was payback after all those years.

He knew. And he was going, oh, I'm sorry, sorry. I'm going to fuck you. Come here. Then I got the point where I take zero tolerance. When I was doing this, I had 21 police officers watching me alone. Chet Sandu is one of Britain's baddest gangsters. Raised by Indian immigrants in a small town in Northern England,

throughout his childhood, Chet was the victim of verbal and physical attacks by racist white gangs, until he grew up and became a gangster himself. First, he was a steroid dealer, and soon became the biggest importer of illegal steroids into the United Kingdom. He eventually got busted in Spain and spent five years inside of the most violent Supermax prison, where he worked for the Spanish cartels.

When he returned to Britain, he formed one of the most notorious criminal firms in the country, importing Coke and running brothels in towns and cities throughout Northern England. He even made millions importing untaxed wine and liquor from mainland Europe. Chet has insane stories from every facet of the British underworld. He wrote a book about his life as a gangster entitled, Self-made Dues Paid, available on Amazon right now. And for more war stories with Chet that will blow your mind, go over to patreon.com

Connect show. And just a reminder, you can get the fully uncensored episodes there as well as on Spotify. Ladies and gentlemen, you're going to love this bloke. Chet Sandu right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Spanish Pism was a fucking nightmare. I got stabbed there twice. I stabbed somebody once. When he sliced me here, I instantly just stuck him hard, bam, straight in the middle. This is how, this is the extremes I got to. I never thought I will be one of them people, ever. I thought if I could go through that and if I could make money there, where I'm, where I was. I made it. The worst jail, the worst wing from murderers, killers. You commit money fucking anyway. That's when I see lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on.

Then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner. Shank, it's like six inches. And he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I made it out of a place alive. You know what I've noticed? I've been here two days, my first time in Britain. There's no Mexicans. All the Mexican labor is done by Indians here. It's wild.

Why do Indians come to Britain and less than they come to America? I think possibly easier to get to England. A lot of these Indians here get into, they go from India, into Europe. And once you're in Italy, Europe. they can get their ways to hear. Visas, this, that, and the work. Family members will vouch for them, say, okay, I'm going to give them a job.

A lot of them come illegally, illegally, containers, which I have some information on, what I was involved in, but I gave it a buy. It wasn't for me, people smuggling. Who are the human smugglers, by the way, in Britain? Who are they? Yeah, like in America, it's mostly Mexican cartels. Right.

You know, collaborating with American gangs to smuggle people in through the southern border. What does that look like in Britain? Right. In Britain, it's whoever people you are bringing in. Like if there's people coming in from Vietnam, it'll be a Vietnamese person. If they're coming in from Albania, them areas, it'll be an Albanian gang. If they're coming from India, it's an Indian person that controls it. The normal situation is 10 grand a pop and we bring you over in a container.

I was talking to these people and they were saying, do you want to get involved in this, this for that, there's this for money it made. Okay, to me the stats didn't work out, yeah. They said, but what we really do is this, yeah? We get about 30 of them in a container, 10 grand a piece, and we pop them all. Pop them all, take them to the sea,

and they never get to the destination. So we don't actually do any work of taking them there. That happens all the time. Wow. Yeah, they just pop them. And they just, they just murdered 30 people. take $300,000. Yes, because they're all illegal.

They're not meant to be where they are in the first place. The crime cannot be reported to anybody. They just take the container out of the sea and stick them out for food fish. And they told you they were going to do this. This is what they do, yeah. Who are these gangs doing this? These gangs, right? This was...

Are these Albanians? No, this guy was an Indian guy. There were people from India who I was working with. Okay. This is what he was doing. He says sometimes we do bring them across. He says, but sometimes it's easier to just, if it's hard work, pop them. And they never get to the destination.

And the families, they'll say, well, where are they? Where are they? And they say, well, they must have got lost to sea or whatever. Or they drowned? Yeah, one of them. So did that not sit well with you when you found out that that was how these guys worked? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't want to be involved in anything like that.

Yeah. I mean, America does everything better, including crime. Yeah. You know, everything, every time I leave the United States, I just am more convinced that it is God's gift to mankind. But anyways, you grew up, you're Indian, you grew up in the north of Britain around almost no other Indians. It was mostly white.

Yes. You grew up in Harfisher? I was born in Hertfordshire. Harfordshire. I lived in Huddersfield, my schooling, and then moved up north when I was 15 years old to Newcastle, yeah. Okay. So you grew up basically your adolescence and on was in Newcastle.

Yeah. And that was hard. That was, this was in the 80s. Yeah. And what was that like? 80s. It was like the shock to the system for everybody involved. Where I was, where we went and when we got the shop, a lot of these people had never even seen a brown face.

Yeah. It was something new. But we took over these shops because the white people there didn't know have a clue how to run a business. They had early closing. The pricing was all wrong. The staff were Laxie Daisy. The alcohol section, they weren't pushing it, had no offers on, no this. But we come into the market.

We're Asians and we know how to make money. We know how to make a shop good. And our shops were packed, pack, bam, bam, bam, bam. What kind of shops? It was off license. What does that be? Off license. We sold alcohol.

We sold fresh meat and produce, you know, just like what you can. Daily food. Frozen food. we had meat, fresh meat. It was like a supermarket, but like a small one. Yeah. Yeah. That was hard work.

When I went there, the racial abuse I was getting, it was terrible on a daily basis. Just getting called, Paki, black cunt. People would not put money in my hand because they didn't want to touch a brown hand. I would throw it on a counter. Just like shit like that, you know, it was regular. Were you the first generation of Indian immigrants? Yes. So you got the worst of the kind of white British working class hatred.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We got the full brunt of it. Now it's a different story now. Things have changed. But we were the original ones there.

Yeah. And we were in a white world. So it was just all on us and we had to take it. And back then it wasn't even illegal. It was only became an offense in 1984. Tony Blair made it that it's illegal to call somebody a black cunt or a black bastard or a party. Mm-hmm. Before that, totally fine.

You are allowed to do that. I guess black cunt, which is kind of a fun phrase to say, a black cunt, you know. But when a white person says it to somebody who's black. Oh, sure, with intention. Right, right. But I imagine if I was an Indian guy, I would call my other Indian friends of black cunt. Yes. Like how.

We do that. We do that. Right. So do you consider that like the N-word, like the way the black Americans use the N-word as a term of endearment with their other black friends? Is that how like Indians in Britain would call, like, can you call your friend a packy? Is that like? Yes. We say things like that.

Yeah. Right. Or a pack, or pat my brother. Stuff like that, you know? And you guys. But we're allowed to say that. But we're allowed to say that. Right.

Right. Right. Yeah. Nobody else can say. So when I just said, when I just said black cunt, I wasn't calling you a, I was just saying black cunt, did that do something to you? Like the way if I, if you were a black American and I said. said the N word and you didn't know me, it might like.

Well, yes, of course. Yeah. Like they put up there. Yeah. It's like if you say that to somebody, you know, you can only say it. Like my white friends, I have white friends and they call me a party. Your party couldn't listen to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's a laugh. Right. Because they know me. I know that they're laughing with me. So that's acceptable. But you actually experienced that hatred behind that word. Yes. Like young.

Indians in London now. I mean, there's more Indians of white people here. Like, they don't even remember or were around when that was like,

that was real, there was real, ferocious, anger and xenophobia and hatred behind it. Yes. Okay, that's fascinating.

And how are Pakistanis treated? If you're Indian being called a Paki, how are actual Pakistanis treated in this country? Exactly the same as those. Because they couldn't tell the difference. Ignorance. We're all just brown. Yeah.

Even Olivia, a partner now, she says only since going out with you, I can tell the difference now between who is who. Before that she didn't have a clue. Who was Sikh? Who's Indian? Who's Hindu? Who's a Muslim? Who's this? Who's that?

They didn't have a clue. But these are whole different races here. Saudi Arabia, Arabs, Egyptians, Pakistan, India. This is like all of Asia, but we're all classed with one person. You're right, exactly, exactly, just like Latinos in the United States. Well, all just got under the same banner of Patty or Black Cunt, if you're confused. Well, in America, if it makes you feel any better, Salvadorans just became not Mexicans. Every other Latino was Mexican until about five years ago.

And now we're all learning that, oh, no, this person is from Venezuela. Yes. Or Honduras. Exactly. Yeah. So today's episode is brought to you by Mando. This should come as no surprise. to you, but there's only one product I trust to keep my pits smelling good, and that is

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exclusive code. That equates to over 40% off of your starter pack. Use code Mitchell at shopmando.com. That's S-H-O-M-A-N-D-O.com with that promo code Mitchell. Thank you, Mando. Let's get back to it. Did, and did you feel, did Indians in the 80s, Indian immigrants, feel animosity towards Pakistanis because of the historical divide? No. Back then in the 80s, we stuck together because there wasn't many Pakistanis there, there wasn't many Indians there so we spoke the same language. Punjabi, we

eat the same similar food, we looked the same. So back then we sort of bonded. We stuck together and helped each other out. It's only as like later later Muslim seeks they're like boom because there's more now. So

they have their own culture and they have their own things now. But back then it wasn't like that. It was only a few of us We got to stay together. You got to survive. Yeah. Did you know of any Indian gangsters at this time where you were growing up in Newcastle? No, never.

No, there was no Indian gangsters. I was the first one. I was the first Asian gangster in Newcastle. Wow. Yeah. Did you, that hatred that you experienced when you were working in your father's store and, you know, being poor and just, you know, isolated. And a very immigrant, do you think that contributed to what you became later? Yeah.

I just didn't like the system. I didn't like how we have to make money. We have to take abuse to make money. We have to like feel threatened. We have to like people try to burn the shop down, burn the house down, put a petrol outside, getting abuse, getting no respect.

I thought, this is the, this is not how I'm going to live my life, you know? I know I'm only young now when I'm older. So that's when I start to train, take steroids, try to do boxing, way training, and then get some. something about myself because of just the shit I was getting,

shit I was getting, and I wanted out of that. And so, it gets out of that, I opened up a clothes shop on my own when I was 21 years old. I got the money off my dad because I worked for my dad ever since I was 10 in shops, never got paid a wage, never got paid a wage. Because Indians, we don't get paid a wage, yeah, the money stays in the pot and the house pot. So we are all, it's all there. right? The money is for like when my mom and dad die, it's going to go down to me anyway. So it's like one of them.

Wow, it's like a trust fund. You're paying into like it's almost like your own social security. Yes. But just of your family. Yes. That's fast. Is that traditional in Indian households? We all do that. Wow. Okay. We all do that. So you were an indentured servant from the time you were 10 until you were 21. Yeah. You're starting to work out because did you ever get like assaulted by these like British white people? Yes, yes, yes. There was a incidents when they came in, started fights, so three, four of them, or my dad just calling him a Paki. There were notorious people at a time, and they were in their mid-20s, and I was just young then, 20 years old, 19, and this is what they used to do, yeah. My dad got bashed up a few times,

went to hospital, stitches, just through attacks, and then when we called the police, they made witnesses up to say that my dad attacked them. Yes, because we're living in their world. This is a white world, yeah. So we didn't have a say. So it went to court and they walked. Wow. And you witnessed your dad being assaulted.

Yes. So that kind of trauma is you can't live that down very easily. Well, no. So you have this fury. Do you feel what is it, what was surging in you? Was it looking back, right? back then it was survival. You probably didn't realize you were being traumatized,

but looking back, was it, was it anger? Was it, what was it revenge that drove you? Yeah, revenge, anger, how they spoke to my mom, what I did to my mother, what I did to my dad, what they did to me, my sister. I hated them. Yeah, I fucking hate them. I wanted death on them.

I hate them. Just were you talking about them? Sometimes I used to drive in the fucking van. I used to drive the van. And I used to think, I hope I see one of them the side of the road come and I'm more than down. This is how, this is the extremes I got to. But there's not a lot I could do because I was a lone wolf. I was only on my own still.

So there's not a lot I could do at this point. It was only after I got my shop in Newcastle, town center. I got mixed with villains, high level people. Right. Tougher people. Right. Than the village where we were living. And so I befriended these people.

I trained with them. And then I took my vengeance out And all them people I tracked them all down And fucked them all up Really? Yes When you had

When I had something about Some clout Yes With these Newcastle gangsters Yeah So you found these guys From your childhood Yeah

They're easy to find Because they're still in the same town Wow Yeah Did you You know Did you leave them all alive? Yeah

They're alive They just got a licking bashed up Broken arms Broken hands Did they know it was you? Of course Oh great

Yeah of course there was one time uh i'll give you an incident i was told one of them was in this bar i got a phone call i'm right okay because i told everybody i'm looking for all these people so i got a phone call right he's there he's in a bar dormant were there i went there uh with a friend of mine and then i said to the dormant and i wrote okay him over there yeah i went throw him out otherwise I'm going to go in there and I'm going to smash him my fuck inside your bar. And he went, okay. So he got him,

threw him out because he didn't want, because he's not going to have him loads of abuse in your bar, yeah? So I did it, so I went this is what I'm going to do. I suggest take him out. So he took him out. I got him out. Straight away, he killed him to a ball. And then when he was in a ball,

I had steeled toe caps on, boots, and I broke both his arms. I just kicked him to fuck on the floor. Did he know? Did you see him remembering at that moment who you were? Yes. And he realized that this was payback after all those years. He knew.

And he was going on, I'm sorry, sorry. I'm going to fuck you. Come here. Right. So as an Indian, you didn't err towards the teachings of Gandhi so much. No. As you did towards the guy that killed Gandhi. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Okay. I love this. All right. So now you're in the bigger city. Who were these gangsters back then? Did you realize, like, up north is so much different than in London,

do you know who the gang members are up there? The clans. Yes. Who are these clans? Right. There was certain families there, the family name. There was about three or four operating at that time in the early 90s. They had control of what they were doing.

There was another firm in Gateshead, which I later joined myself. And they called them firms. Firms, yeah, because we're just like an organized gang. And is it drug trafficking or what were they doing back in the 90s? Drug trafficking, prostitution, racketeering, extortion. A lot of them taking money of people where they're not supposed to take it, just taxing people, taxing drug dealers. Just not really.

And you had a clothing shop. Yeah. And you're working out, you're a big, you're a bodybuilder. So tell us how that progresses into your first hustle. Right. The clothing shop I had, that was a bit high level. I was selling high level clothing, clubware. It was a bit too, I was too ahead of the time for Newcastle.

A lot of the people that used to buy the clothes were gay guys because they had a bit more style about them and a bit excess dollar. So they were buying, bang, bang, buying, but it was struggling. So I had to get involved with credit card fraud. There's these gangster family that came to me. They said, we have a firm in Newcastle that just do bag snatching. Do a fresh bag snatch.

They bring the cards straight away to certain shops and you just ring it, rinse it, rinse it, rinse it. I went, okay. Before they call the person, the victim calls up and cancels the car. That's why I did. Okay, so you were basically just the person that received the cards. Just the money and I would just give. them half of the money, but they had to take that in clothing, not cash.

I see. How long did you do that for? I did that for about four years. Wow. Yeah. How much money do you think you took? I took a lot of money. I took a lot of money.

Took a lot of money, but the police were watching my shop and I was advised that like the police had put cameras opposite my shop because these gangsters were coming in and out, in and out. And they were thinking there's, he's doing more than the same. selling clothes. They thought I was selling drugs. So they were watching me, watching me and I got told. So in the end, what I did, I got in loads of supplies of people of clothing and I just

bumped them. I didn't pay anybody off. And I just fucked him off that way. So you closed the shop down. Yeah. Okay. Did you leave Newcastle? No.

Stayed there. That's when I started to work on the door security. And then I started to get into the store. steroids. Right. To sell the steroids, the pills. Because there was a boom on steroids back in Britain in the 90s, right? Yeah.

Can you explain that? There was a boom there. Yes, sir. The boom was really down to me. What is it called? The boom was down to me. Ah. Because I was bringing in that much gear.

Yeah, it was accessible. Right. Before I was doing it, it was hard to get a hold of good quality product. Right. Very hard. It was like homemade shit. It was like bollocks. Good quality.

it was rare and far between. So I just seen a niche in the market. And I went to the cheapest place in the world, which was Karachi to buy the drugs. Right. Yeah, you were saying Karachi is the cheapest place to get anything you want. Anything you want. Because nobody wants to do business with that country.

Because of Al-Qaeda, Taliban, kidnappings. It's dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. But you said, oh, of course, I can get the best price. Yes.

I'm going to go to Karachi. Yeah. Did you have connections when you went over there? None. Zero. I went in blind. Went in blind. I had to do my own research.

I just went off an address on the packet of steroids that I used to buy in England. There was an address on the back. And that's what I, I thought, okay, I'm going to go to his factory and bribe him. Yeah. It's a party stand. I'm sure they all take bribes. Of course. Yeah.

And we were right. No, I wasn't right. I tried to bribe him. The factory owner, I got an interview with a manager, Organon, and he says, do you have a pharmaceutical company? I said, yes, I tried to black it. He wasn't buying it. But then said, listen, if you want to buy this amount, I can't supply you. There's heavier, there's more heavier people here.

You have to go to other people. So I'm not going to say who, but not me. So I'm right. So then we did a research. who went to chemist, this, that, trying to get the product. They only had little bits, 10, 20 ampules, which was useless. I wanted 50,000. And is this testosterone or what kind of steroids?

Testosterone. Okay. And you sell them, how are they sold? Like what units of just like one vial at a time? One bill ampule. Okay. And that's like a vial, basically. Yes.

Okay. And what is one of those retail for back then? What was it retailing for in England? Retail was about four pounds. And what was your price? To buy 30 pence. Wow. Yeah.

Good markup. And 50,000 at a time. Yes. You can see that there was a good business to do here. Yes. And also the pills I was bringing in, the volume, they were costing for 1,000, 9 pounds. And street value here has a pound of pill.

Wow. So 9 pounds to 1,000 pound, which was better, which I figured, okay, it's better to take these pills rather than steroids because my structure was all based on weight. Right. 23 kilo per suitcase. Right. Three suitcases.

So we're turning 70 kilo of drugs, yeah? So I thought these pills are better. What is Valium? How is that even the same demand as testosterone? It's not the same demand. It's a totally different people that take it. Valium is like a come down pill. People that take heroin.

that can't get heroin, they take this as they're suppressing, you know, to like keep ongoing. How did you find that niche? Because you were a bodybuilder, so that you penetrated that market pretty easily because you were meeting other bodybuilders

who needed testosterone. How did you worm your way into the value distribution? Yeah, over the volume, yes. I worm my way to that one because some bodybuilders would take volume to get asleep on, blah, blah, blah. And then I just got a talk. and some people and they said, right,

well, there's a different market here. These are different people. So I spoke a few people and they went, yeah, I can sell them. But I sold them in bulk. I was selling 1,000 pills for 150 pounds. Cost to me 9 pound.

Right. So 150. Yeah. But they're selling for a pound of pill. Right. So these customers, there was loads of them. Right. I found there was loads of them. And to move these tablets was very easy. But it was a whole different market. Okay. I was bringing in steroids and the pills, so I was dealing with two different markets.

Okay, so tell us about like a steroid run. You eventually found the supplier in Pakistan. Was this just like a pharmaceutical company that was willing to sell a street guy however much you wanted or with these criminal gangs? Who were the? All right. We went to these places.

The prostitutes as well, they knew this. Listen, if you want what you want in them amounts, You've got to go see these people. They have a market store. He said, but they're heavy. But they're the only ones. Even the chemists said, no, not us. Go see them.

Go see them. So we went to see them. I went to see them, but there was two guys outside. A chemist in a market store, open store, shotguns outside. And I thought, this doesn't look like a normal chemist's shop to me. Anyway, it was really small. And Bashir, the boss was sat there.

His sons were outside with the guns and I said, hi, yeah, but I spoke to him in Punjabi. So he was talking to me and we were talking and I said, this is why I want. He went, sit down, you went, explain yourself where you're from, what you're doing, blah, blah, blah. So I told him everything. I told him everything. He said, okay, you've got the cash. I went, yeah, yeah. He said, I can get you anything you want, anything you want.

The whole spectrum of illegal pills, roughen apart. Valium, Emgisics, the steroids, heroin even. I was offered at 1,800 pound for a kilo. Wow. That's 80% proof. Yeah. And a kilo here sells for $200,000, wholesale probably. Wow.

Did that cross your mind? It did cross my mind, but then I thought, no, that's heavy. Right. That's not for me. That's not the market I'm in. Let me just concentrate on what I'm doing here. So I just concentrate on the pills and the steroids. This episode is sponsored by True Classic.

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Use that promo code. That's the best way you can do it. End the year with holiday cheer, thanks to True Classic. So what does one load look like? Walk us through how you would get, how much you picked up, and how you would smuggle it back to England. Right, okay, the load, yeah. Okay, these guys who was buying off,

I got told he didn't tell me, but the taxi drivers told me they have links with Al-Qaeda. He went and the police, they're all linked. So they're free and easy to sell what they want. The police can never bust them. So this is who you're dealing with. Yeah, okay, but we have to deal with these people because they're the only people that can sell this amount.

Right. So the process was getting them back and packing everything down. The volume was come in blister packs. I had to pack them down as vitamin B12 tubs. There was a quarter of a million pills. Wow. Quarter of a million pills, 50,000 ampules. It was a lot of work.

How this got done the first time round was by my taxi driver. my taxi driver he had like a porn magazine I gave him yeah because you can't get that in Pakistan they've never seen a naked white woman in that line right never seen one yeah

so this is like gold dust here so I gave him the magazine and he was overwhelmed with it yeah so I went okay and you went I'll take the stock and I'll get it or pack for you and done for you in the morning yeah well yeah because we were trying it we did about a thousand ampules and our hands were getting blisters

I went this in for fucking me I went there's 50,000. Yeah. And a quarter of a million pills, it's going to take his fucking ages. So he took it away. And what he did, went to the village, got down 12 boys from his local village, young boys, showed him the magazine. We know what they do with young boys over there.

When they're not packing, they're getting packed. Anyways, I'll be here all day, folks. Go ahead. So he showed him the magazine. And he goes, right, pack one box. There was 12 boxes. He meant pack one box. And I'll turn the page over.

And they're like, right, okay, so they all looked at this page. Oh, wow, wow, wow. And then they were in speed motion to get the fucking next page. And then once that box was packed, checked, turned the page over. And I paid him a month's wages to get this done because I thought he was going to pay these boys. You didn't pay them anything. Wow. Just paid him in white pussy.

Just in white pussy, man. Yeah, and I mean, I imagine a month's wage there in 1992 was $5. I mean, nothing, right? Nothing, yeah. So that's, so was that your system moving forward was to use like the villagers? No. To pack them down. That just happened once.

Okay. The second time round, I went, my second run, I told Bashir, the boss, those buying the pills off, listen, I have a problem with the packaging. He said, I'll do it for you all. Okay. So you did it for me all free. Oh, I didn't, that didn't move your price up? No.

Now, how were they linked, how was Bashir linked to Al-Qaeda? Do you think they were just paying extortion payments? to them? Yes. Protection? Yes. So they're allowed to operate so they get money.

Yeah. Can you explain further how Al-Qaeda, and I'm sure now the Taliban, this is probably, you could probably shed some light on how they operate, basically like gangs do, with extorting drug dealers.

And can you shed some light on that? Yes, they do. Yeah. Drug dealers, heroin from the Kashmir border, goes to India. It comes from Afghanistan. It goes all over. It goes to Turkey.

they have a hold and all that. All these drug dealers are linked with them. The drug dealers are making their money, but they have to pay them for the safety and control of the drugs and we'll get to the border. And you are allowed to move because their forces are everywhere.

You can't move without them doing anything. So it's all hand-in-hand sort of thing. This is where they get their money from. Uh-huh. The funding. Do you think they... Because it sounds exactly like Mexican cartels. Yeah.

You know, the drug dealer, in Mexico, drug traffickers give a percentage to the cartel who protects their shipments and pays off border guards to make sure it moves safely into America. That's how it is. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. The police have paid, everyone's paid off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not surprising in a country like Pakistan. Yeah. Okay, so what is that, you bring over 150,000 valiant pills in Iran, you said? I was bringing quarter of a million. Quarter of a million pills.

And how many people are you dumping these off too. Okay, I had I would say five to six main guys who would buy off me in bulk as soon as these pills landed. Because they were getting at a really good price at a hundred and fifty

pound a tub. Because normally there was ones on the street air they were paying 250 a tub of the quality was shit mine were rush, proper rush 10 milligram volume, their real deal and they were very good quality, the best of the best.

And so. So how much were you making off like a tub? Right. Okay. Off a tub, I was making 140 pound. Okay. Yeah. And a tub is 1,000?

Yes. Okay. So if you're making 140 pounds a tub and you have 250,000. 250,000. 250. Yeah. What's the ticket on that? 250 times 150, 140.

I don't know work it off close to half a half a million bucks yeah yeah wow and what's your what's your investment on that my investment

what it costs me to do the run would I would just pay I would pay the mules a thousand pound each I would pay for the expenses the food a thousand pound each

the tickets would cost me back then a thousand thousand thousand hundred the layout was about three grand. This is an unbeatable, unbeatable business. Yes. This is better than cocaine.

It's better than... It was the best and the best. The best of the best. Yes. And nobody was doing it. Nobody was doing it. You were the biggest guy in England doing this. Yes.

Wow. I just found that niche. Wow. Yeah. People were just concentrating on cocaine, heroin, ecstasy. Everyone was doing it. And all carries heavy jail and they're all killing each other. I just thought, no, I've got a deal.

Different angle here. But not everybody can go to Pakistan. Right. Of course not. And communicate with these people and do it. No. A white person can't do that. They will not tolerate you.

They will kidnap you, hold you hostage. You'll come here to buy drugs. They'll fucking cut your ears off and send them D.HL to your dad. And that's about half a million pound. And they'll let you go. Brian, go ahead and cancel the Pakistan trip we had. We were going to go film for content over there. I'm just a YouTuber.

I'm not here to, I'm not buying. Wow. So, and then the mulling, this is the 90s, right? Yeah. So you could, you basically just take your bag on a commercial flight. These mules, right? Yes. They were just checking their bags with, you know, 125,000 bills.

Full of it. I had to pay off the chief narcotics officer. at Karachi Airport. He knew about my operation first time around. First time round, it went smooth. I bought them off security with some more magazines. I showed them the magazines. They'll check in the case of them.

No, we're not having this. We're not having this. I'm going to fucking old. And then they seen the magazines. They went and they had a look and I went, do you want it? He goes, yeah. I went, take it. I went, are we good to go?

They went, yeah, go on then. So gave them two magazines. No cash? No cash. Not first time round. And then second X-ray, they x-rayed them, them too as well with two magazines. Unbelievable. Wow.

That was the first time round. Because magazines are gold just there. You can't get that. Yeah. That's worth a lot of money. Wow. Yeah. There's no internet.

There's no nothing, yeah. They could probably sell that. That's how they're looking at. Print the pages out and sell them or whatever. Wow. So this was a commodity. And we could believe it the first time round. So the second time round, they knew what I was doing.

I had to pay them off. 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, man, okay. Third, third time round, the chief narcotics officer approached me. I came off a flight. He knew my flights. And he said, listen, I know what you're doing.

He says, you don't have to pay anybody off here, yeah? Okay? Just me. You give me a hundred pound of suitcase, right? And I will, you bypass all, all x-rays and everything. You're going to bring what you want through. I'm all right, okay. then I could have brought back heroin.

Right. That crossed my mind then when I was working with him because he says, and then when I used to come to airport, greeted me at the front, airport security, he used to get out of the way and I would just walk straight through

as if I was like. Presidential treatment. Yeah. Now, I mean, yeah, you could have got, if you got 10 kilos of heroin, you could have retired. Yeah. I mean, look, a couple runs,

you could have retired off one run of value. Yeah, one run, yeah. Did you have, did you have that in mind the way that like I did when I was selling big weight, I was like, okay, I'm going to make X amount of money and then I'm going to, you know, get off into something else because it is such high risk. Did you have that or did you not think like that?

The heroin did cross my mind, yes. But then I thought that's a different prospect here, what I'm doing that with the heroin. But did you, even with the volume and the gear, did you think once I make, you know, this many millions, I'm going to get out and invest this into other less risky ventures so I don't have to go to Karachi. Yeah. Right.

I was investing at the time I was making it. Yeah. I was getting money. I was investing, pulling it into property doing what I was doing. I did that, but I didn't have a plan to stop. My plan was to take it bigger. My next plan was not suitcases, a container. Like on a cargo ship.

A container, yeah. Wow. doing like a five million pound boom. Wow. And just doing one of them every six months even. Yeah. Just keep it low profile. Because while I was doing in Pakistan, I was going there every six weeks.

So this is why my, I flagged up. Right. So when you're coming, getting out of Karachi is easy. Getting into England, it becomes a problem when they see. Six times. Well, he's going all the time. He's going all the time. So that's why Interpol would check in my flights.

Now, at before interoperable, So you were on the same flights as your mules. Yes. I see. I see. Just making sure everything was smooth. Yes. Were these also Indians?

No, white people. Okay, so they couldn't go there by themselves. No. They had to have you there. Yeah. What kind of whites were these? Just people that I knew, lads that weren't working. They were like a thousand pounds to them for a week.

It's a lot of money. And plus there's a holiday away. And they've got nothing to do. Normally they were just sit in a little house and just get stoned all day long, you know? Right. So this is a thing. So they say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And plus it's only Valium, steroids. And England then, it's Class C. Ah. Class C. Okay. Which only carries maximum for three years. Oh, wow. Okay.

In Spain, it carries nine years. So, okay. And they would just get their bags after they checked them when they landed in England and walk through customs with a bag full of gear. And they never got searched. They never got popped. No, the customs at Newcastle airport, the way I did the flights, I made sure we changed the Amsterdam.

We used to change at 5 a.m. 5 a.m. And we used to land at Newcastle about 6 a.m. On a morning flight were empty. They're always empty. Right. So we apparently have just come from Amsterdam because we took all the Karachi tags off. So on the case, it just looks as well from Amsterdam.

Right. And you're not flying into Heathrow, So it's way. Newcastle Airport. There was nobody ever there. Right. Straight through. Right.

Heathrow, Manchester, different story. Wow. You can't do it in there, my airport. You have to pick a small airport. Yeah. Yeah. So what was the mistake? The mistake was I told too many people.

And one time, our flights changed at Amsterdam, but the cases didn't follow onto the next flight. So we got told, right, your case. cases are on the next flight. So you have to come back for them. That's when I thought, fuck. That's when they're going to have a look at them. So then I phoned up and they told me, okay, your cases are here. But if you do to come collect the case, you will be arrested.

Because this is English law. They have to tell you. Wow. Yeah. I wish they would have told me that. When my FedEx packages arrived, wow. They said that. Yeah, they said that.

That's why he's left it. So then I thought, okay, I have to divert it now. I have to divert what I'm doing. Right. Okay. So, and that's when you decided to go through Spain. I went through Spain and I was going to get the Euro tunnel back, the train. What is that? So there's a train that goes from Spain, there's a train that goes from Spain to France, from France to London. So it was a longer journey. I just wanted to avoid flights because they knew I was doing. Right, right. Did you consider like having a trusted person go in place of you?

so you didn't have to even be on the flights. Like, couldn't they have, you know? Do you know what? I was greedy in that way. I didn't have to carry a case, but I chose to carry a case myself. I had the mules carrying cases, but I would as well because I didn't give a fuck. I didn't want more money. I thought, well, I'm going to take one as well.

Yeah. Because it's such a low investment, right? Like, it's weird. Even though you're making so much money to, have to take some of that away. You've already trained yourself to where, okay, it literally just cost me 10,000 pounds for a $500,000 profit.

So damn, it's going to cost me $30,000 now? No. Because you've trained yourself. Yeah. Yeah, that was a mistake. Yeah. That's okay. This is what happens in the game. Hey guys, let me take a minute to tell you about Mint Mobile.

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So how did it end? How did it end? Okay, we're going through Spain. I had two mules with me. Unfortunately, it's the first time they went there. He was 21, his girlfriend 19. They'd never been abroad before. They've never been about a passport.

he worked at the same bar I was working in he was a glass collector so I took him and his girlfriend and um we went to alicante all the cases were going around everybody was picking the cases of picking the cases of our cases weren't there weren't there it was going round round round our cases not there and I thought fuck I know what's happening here already yeah they're waiting for the guardians of ill for the drug squad to land. So I knew this then when that case went there. Us three were just standing there and everybody else gone. And then the Guardia Seville just came around with guns

and then went boom, get on the floor, handcuffed, bam. And these are your cases that brought them out, said, yeah, they opened them up. And they were laughing the heads off. They were, wow, look at this. It was a big seizure in Spanish history, the pharmaceutical drugs. Wow. What was in there?

How much weight? There was 50,000 ampules and a quadrual. quarter of a million tablets of volume. Wow. What do you think that was worth? That was worth a lot of money, huh? A lot of money. Do you know what?

I didn't want to work it out and hurt myself. Sure, exactly. I know. I figure in hindsight, you know. Because I made money. I made money and then you lose money. That money is easy come, easy go. This is life.

So I don't like to like, oh, this is the exact number I've lost. I just fuck it. Yeah, it's gone. Fuck that one. Yeah. So that's a big. bus to them. And I'm shocked that they even knew what that was. The Spanish are stupid as fuck. Yes, they are.

But they knew they were like, these are illegal. Because you're dealing in an illegal product. Yeah. Like, volume is legal. Testosterone is legal. Yes. So over what quantity does it become illegal? It's illegal, right?

For personal, if you have for yourself, a prescription in Spain. Right. I mean, Spain, they only have Class C and Class C. They don't have a class C. Class B, hashish, cannabis, marijuana. Class A, everything else. So that comes in the category of Class A. And it was the intention to sell, to supply.

Okay. So you can only get it from a doctor. Yeah. So the amount I had, obviously it's an intention to supply people. It's not personal use. Okay. I told him it was personal use. I said, I can't get a fucking sleep in the night.

That's where I got that much. Right. Yeah. And they didn't go for it? They go over another day. No, they knew what I was doing because they knew all my flights. Interpol had be on my case and they just reel it off back to me. They just reeled it all off everything.

Now, would they, in that situation, like if it was cocaine, they busted some kids coming back from Columbia. They might say, hey, let's work together. We got DEA down in Columbia. Bring us to your supplier and we can get you a time cut, right? That would get you to cooperate. Was there that opportunity? here, I mean, you're getting steroids

from basically like a terrorist country. Did the Spanish even try to like say, hey, let's build this case up and try to like arrest your suppliers in Pakistan? Or is that not even an option? Zero. No, no, no. They don't want nothing to do with Pakistan.

Spain can't fuck with Pakistan. Right. Pakistan will tell them to fuck off. Yeah, America can barely fuck with Pakistan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody will. Nobody does it. Fuck off.

We do what I do. He's legal on our. our shores. Once he leaves our shores, that's his business. Right. So, um, right, to, uh, a deal, they tried to do that with the mules. They made them speak against me. And they admitted it. They said, well, we didn't pack our cases. Give it all that one. We're innocent, blah, blah, blah. So it came out in the newspapers here in England. Uh, I'm the bad guy, took two people over, an innocent young couple. Right. And I made them carry drugs back. So it's making me out look like a bad guy here.

Right. It was on the front pages of papers and everything here. I went, this isn't a fucking case. So I got word sent to their family. You better tell them to change a fucking story or you know what's going to go down here. So word got back to them

and then they changed the story and told the truth. Wow. Okay. So did they, but they still fingered you as the ringleader though, right? Yeah, but they knew I was anyway, which was fair, fair enough.

Yeah. But in Spain, it doesn't work like if you cut a story and you walk free, you still get the same jail. So they got the same time that you did. They got the same time as me. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

So how much time did you get sentenced to? I got sentenced to in the end, four and a half years. Okay. Out of that, I served three years. Nine years was what I was supposed to get. But my lawyer, Antonio Gonzalez, he got me the deal. He says, I'll get you half your sentence if you pay me $11,000. Wow.

Yeah. And he went and took that part of that to the judge? Yes. Wow. $6,000 for the judge. judge. And that must be common. That must be rampant in the Spanish justice system. That happens all the time, yeah. Because their barristers apparently don't get paid the same as what the barristers here do in England. Because here, they're on top top dollar.

On there, it's not like that. So they're free and easy to tape rights. Yeah. So I got told of my lawyer and the people once I could learn Spanish that this is what you do here. Because in the first place, I had a wrong lawyer who's full of shit. Right. He couldn't get me fucking anywhere, but I didn't know Spanish then. Right. The only once I learned Spanish and I talked to the South Americans and they said to me, you need this boy. Right.

So you were actually originally supposed to do. You went into Spanish prison with nine years, I believe, right? Yeah. And you just didn't realize you could have paid at the beginning. You could have paid the judge and be walking in with a four-year sentence. Yeah. You just didn't know Spanish. I just didn't know Spanish.

I didn't have the links. Yeah. If I had the links, if somebody cared to approach me, boom, you're wasting your time. you need this lawyer, he would get you out double fast. Wow. Because you had money when you went in there. What did the mules, those kids? What happened to that?

How much time did they end up doing? They had the same sentence, but I paid for their legal fees as well. And the bribery? Yes, everything. Oh, wow. I have to pay for that. That's good of you. Well, yeah, but it was my fault, you know.

Did you feel guilty? Yes, really bad. I mean, because a lot of gangsters, I mean, that's just, they just throw their mules to the slaughter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I did. I took care of them. I paid their legal fees and I got them out. Good for you.

Did they have a hard time? Did you talk to them about their experience? Yes, I did. They had a hardish time, but the girl was okay because there was two girls from Liverpool who were doing nine years for cocaine, which was a set up on their part. They were coming to Spain, cocaine, taking it back, wrapping it around. the body bringing it back. But this time around, they had the cocaine.

Foyle was inside the cocaine. They set them up. They set them up for a fall. Somebody else was probably coming through with a bigger one. Right. Blah, blah, blah. They had two kilos on them, a kilo each. The girls, but when it went to court, it was only one kilo.

I wonder what happened to that. It's in Spain. This is Spain. So they were asked about that, but it's still nine years. You know, where they're two kilo, ten kilo. one kilo, half a kilo, still nine years. Wow, so what was Spanish prison like? So Spanish prison was a fucking nightmare.

A third of the inmates got AIDS. Sorry, say it again? A third of the inmates have AIDS. Wow. From injecting, sharing needles. I was in the category A, the top security wing. There's only 40 heads on there. They were all in there for murder, killers, South American,

big-time drug dealers from Peru, Venezuela, Bolivia, Colombia, South Palo, those Europeans there, Germans there, Russians there, Moroccans, Algerians. It was like the whole world was in this little wing. Wow. Yeah. Serious. We got serious guys. Yeah, yeah. But some of them were dope shooters.

Yes. Oof. So they would share needles and get HIV. Yeah. Now, did they let them? that HIV turn into full blown AIDS. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

You were saying the Spanish prisons are the worst in all of Europe, right? Yes. They're worse because of that. They have no health and safety. There's no rules and regulations. It's just all dirt. It's like Africa. It's fucking disgusting.

Because sentencing is there. Other countries in England, if you do like bagelries, you do like 10 burglaries. You'll get two year, one year, 18 months, two year. But it runs. concurrent. So you only do two years. In Spain, they add them all up. So if you do burglaries, 10 of them, you do 25 year. I think America's similar. They hand you big sentences there, might. But I don't know you get that much. America's consecutive, but they hand you

big sentences. Yes. Does that make sense? So you will get big sentences, but generally they're concurrent. So but in Spain they just concurrent. But so it, it's kind of like Spain, but generally they don't stack the charges. So if you murder somebody with a weapon, they'll give you 25 for the body and 25 for the weapon or 15 for the weapon, but they'll run them concurrently, so you'll only do 25. Does that make sense? Yes. But it sounds like in Spain, again, those animals will just stack the math. I'll give you an example, Carlo, a good friend of mine who spoke some English in there. His story was this year, and fast. Innocent boy, college boy, had a fit girlfriend that were at a party. The host was

flirting with his girlfriend, and the night, all a little bit a little bit high, people have left, and then he told Carlo to leave and not his girlfriend. Carlo didn't take this fucking lightly, so there was a bottle of vodka,

hit him over the fucking head. Bam, killed him. Didn't mean to kill him, right? So him, and the girlfriend are there and the dead guy. So what it did, shit themselves, so he took him to the mountains,

and they burnt the body. Right, okay, Carlo took the blame. It all came ahead, but when it went to jail, He got 24 year for the murder and 10 year for burning the body. So he did 34 years. See, there you go.

34 years. Yeah, you got 10 for burning the body. Yeah, yeah, right. And so now the kid has no reason to live. His life's over. He's on AIDS, yeah, and he's on heroin. And they give up and they just slam it. Yeah.

Wow. Is there any possibility of good time? Like, say you don't have money to pay a judge. Can you be on good behavior and get out early? Well, no, no chance. No You have to do three quarters Three quarters is that and so now you're in there

You know you think you're doing nine Yeah you don't know yet that you're able to pay your way out You have money but you got a hustle in there Yes So what was your hustle? My hustle was that I was the money lender There was Carlo The different Carlo who's all

heroin there Manolo, a bank robber. He was notorious. He was doing about 30-odd year. He used to take police hostage. He's like, shoot out with the feds, blah, blah, blah. But they used to sell the heroin there. So when people want a heroin and they didn't have the money,

they would say go see Indio. That's what he used to call me, Indio. See him and he will lend you the money and then I'll give you the drugs. So it worked hand in hand. And for this, Manolo and Carlo would give me hashish on a visit when it would come through because their family members would come in and they'd get big lumps. And they would give me a lump as a thank you present. So I was like free and easy and we just got stoned in the yard there.

And so my hustle was lending somebody 2,000 pesetas and I want 3,000 back on the Monday. Everybody gets money sent in off their families on the Monday. You queue up, you get your dollar. All the drug dealers are hanging around wanting to get paid. As soon as people get paid, they're pounced on. Right. Right. And then they turn around and give you the Vig.

And then they give me what they owe me. Right. And then they say, right, now I don't have any money. So can I borrow some more back? And I go, yeah. Right. Then I want double again. So it was like a circle there.

So they're constantly... They can't get out of it. They can't get out of it. No. Because once they paid me, they don't have any money. Right. So they have to borrow again. Right.

And I had about five or six of these just going round, round, round. Wow. So you started with your own personal money. Yes. Backing it up, right? Giving it to the dealers. Yes. And now...

Give me to these people who wanted it. Right. And they will go to the dealer and then the dealers will give me free hashish as well. Right. So that was a good deal for me. It almost seems like you could just give the dealer's money yourself for them, but you want to separate it. Yes. Yes.

Yes. No, no, no. Because I'm not buying the drugs. No, no. I'm just lending me the money. And for that, I would hold whatever they had. Jewelry, you allowed jewels in there, rings, watches. a walkman, anything of any value, I would take on hold.

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B-21. So you're a bank and a pawn shop. Yeah. Wow. So you must have been chilling. Chill in. I mean, tell us about where they're, I'm sure people who couldn't pay would just say, yeah, keep my TV. Well, did that happen?

Yeah. What did you have? extra items, yeah. Walkmans, trainers, track suits, jewelry. I had two watches on. You bastard. Who needs that? Who needs one watch in jail, dude? You don't even need them watching jail. You go by the sun, you know?

No shit, right? So it's pointless having to watch anyway. Wow. You're just shoving in their faces. Hey, you AIDS junkie. I have two watches. Ten chains. Jewelry, chains, rings, everything. Waltmans, yeah. Wow.

And all the hash you wanted to smoke. Yes. So it was a good number in the end, yeah. So did you feel like, okay, I can do nine, even though it's terrible, you're separated from your family. But did you feel like, okay, I can make it through? Yes. Karim was there, and he was Karim. He was from Algeria, a big-time drug dealer called a ghost.

And he had, and he didn't escape. He escaped from there. Really? He said to me, I'm doing nine. He said, you're going to get nine check. He said, why don't we escape together? And he escaped from there. And I help him do that escape.

How? Right. And why didn't you go with him? Why didn't I go with him? Because I could do the nine year. I would only do six. I would do about three in Spain and then get a transition to England. And I finished my sentence off there.

I thought, okay, I can do that. That's all right. Okay, I can do that. If I go on the run with Karim, I can never go back. England. Right. Because if you escape from a EU prison,

the inner pole, I'm sure, all shares that information, right? Yes, so you can't so you've got to get the fuck out of Europe, really.

Right. Okay, so how'd you help him? Right. He was in the Economato, which is like a shop on the bottom. Well,

sold the basics. Coffee, shampoo, water, cigarettes, bollocks like that. Anyway, he was in charge of that. And we used to get

all locked up at seven o'clock, but he was allowed to count up and do his accounts until 7.30. So he was allowed an extra half an hour on his own in the corner. And the corner was next to the wall. And there was a fridge on the wall and he showed me. And he'd been like spooning away at it. And it was soft as shit, the brick.

The brick was coming away with my thumbs because that was an old jail. Foncolant is notorious to escape from. There's been loads of escapes there. Okay. Where is this prison base? Just for people can get a sense of, where it was located. Alicante, Spain.

Alicante. Alicante. That's the airport and that's where we're at. Okay. So the brickwork is the old jail. So all you said, all I've got to do is get through this wall. Once I'm through here, I've got to run down there, hop over that wall, and then jump over that other wall, which is jump a bull. But at the same time, there's two guys with shotguns on each corner.

Right? I went, what about the geyser with the guns in? He went, I want you to come with me. And he says, right, he wanted to go first

and he wanted me to go behind him. So if anybody gets shot, it's me. Get it? He wanted his back covered, yeah? Sure. And I was thinking,

listen, nine year, yeah, fucking hell. Okay, never go back England, never seen my mum again, never see my children again.

Fuck that. It's only nine, yeah. I can do the five or six. Fucking, I'll do that. Yeah. No,

no, Listen, brother, thank you, but I will help you. You know, okay, this is all want you to do. Artu, there was a German in there. He said, okay, we staged a fight, yeah? We synchronize our watches. He says, okay, I'm going to do one, yeah? Okay, about 20 past seven while I'm in there.

No, no, no, yes. So while all you lot are inside, if you start a fight, all the screws will land there. Start a fight, the screws will land there. Mm-hmm. Start a fight, the screws will land. there and it will give me my chance to fucking run. Right. So we synchronize

our watches. 20 past seven. I'm like, okay, go on then. Twenty past seven we're watching TV. The Simpson was on, yeah? I wanted to watch the weakest link. So me and Outa just had an argument. I went, I want to watch you to say, and no, fuck you. I'm not fucking. So I just got a plastic chair

through the chair at him. He threw one back and then we just wrestled on the floor. Wrestling, yeah, not punching, yeah? We just, we don't want to hurt each of that. So we just, bam, bam, bam. screws, bam, whistles, they all come running. And then when that was happening, we heard doof, douf, boom, bam, gun go off twice, yeah?

I knew, yeah? And Manolo knew, Artu knew. I think it was only the four of us that knew that he was going. And bam, gone, yes? And then they went right. And then the screws all come back, they all right? Everybody lock up, lock them all up. And then we were saying, has you got away? Has he got away? They won't say nothing, yeah?

They won't say nothing. And I knew he got away. Yeah. Because if they had got him, they would have dragged his body in the yard. Yeah. For us to look at it and went, this is what happens. Yeah, okay, don't fucking try and run from here. And I knew he'd been away because he wasn't fucking shot.

So he got away and he sent me a postcard. Send me a postcard from Portugal. And he goes, thank you. I love you. Take care. The ghost. Wow. And he ghosted.

He lived up to his name. Right. Yes. Betty got caught. Oh, no, where? He was spain again. He was owed $60,000 for cocaine, a past debt. He came to collect the debt.

The guy didn't want to pay him a 60 large. He'd rather just phone the feds and fucking... Oh, fuck. Do you know what? Yeah, there's a life, man. Do you know what? Yeah, you've had the 60 grand of cocaine off him. Yeah.

Pay him, no. Right. That's what they do, though. If you're on the run, that's why wouldn't you? Why would you pay the 60 grand where you can just get locked over him? Fucking shite. Wow. So how long was he out before he got locked up?

He was out. It wasn't that long. It was only about four months. And then I seen him. They brought him back up. But then they put him on the other side. Because my wing was catee. There was a double catee where etter were kept.

What? Etta. These are Barcelona terrorists. They do bombs. They let the IRA. Yeah, from Catalonia. Yes, them. Yeah.

There was them people. Oh, the Basque. Sorry, the Basque party. Yes, yes. The bass. Yeah. They were heavy, heavy. Right.

They were there for murder, bombings. There was a few of them, and you're only allowed out one time in the yard. And you got to come back. So he was there. And I just looked at him. He looked at me and he just gave me a little wave.

And I just felt fucking sick. Oh. And when you went through that process of, you were out. Right. You were out. Yeah. But he said the fucking 60 grand.

He went, I was starting over again. He said, you know, he said, I needed that fucking money. Yeah. But what are you going to do behind the wall? Yeah. They do shit now.

So after you escaped, you get a new charge? Do they give you more time? Yeah, for escaping as well, yeah. So what's he doing? Is he ever getting out? I don't know. I think you only get about two years for escaping. So is he, he's still in there, I assume?

No, no, no, no, no. He'll be out now. Okay. Karim will be out now. But he couldn't handle that life. He was like a big Coke dealer. He was like heavy, rich. He's one of them without all the rings,

dollar, bitches. Jail life, he couldn't handle it. He went out. I can't handle it. He went, how can you handle that? I went, I said, I can do it. Yeah. You're a little grimyer, though.

You're kind of a thug. A drug trafficker, a fly dude is different than a gangster. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's wild. Was there anybody else that like any other characters you remember from that prison? Yes, loads. Just like they had a wild-ass story.

Yes. Buzzo. Buzzo was Albanian. He was no, Bosnian, sorry. Bosnian. He was in the Bosnian. an army. He was short, stocky,

built like a fucky, he was tough. He came over to our wing because he was on Moodlew won first. He had a fight with somebody. If you had a fight with somebody on a different wing, they would send you onto our wing

as punishment for 30 days. They were going to live with that lot for 30 days. That's what you get. Because it was a nightmare at a wing, yeah? Yeah. And why? What was happening on your wing?

Everybody's established? Really? We've all got AIDS. doing 140 years they're not they're not going to get out but you do have a single cell

two doors in it but you have your own space so I like that I didn't like to share Boutto said he was sharing his cell somebody who uses razor he went listen to me a third of the fucking people

he got fucking AIDS so he uses razor he said and he just fucking nut at him he said he knotted him and he'll give him a bang bosh knock them out they sent him

of our wing. But he was crazy. He told me his story what he did. He said, I was in a buzzing army. He said, it was shite. He said, all you should do all day was just get stoned.

There was no work. He went all the fucking guns and everything else was from 1960 fucking five. He says, all the old equipment. He says, all they do, get stone, get high. So he went AWOL. He fucked off.

He got caught near the border by two police. They stopped him. He knew who was going to get a fuck. They stopped him. And then what happened? one of them pulled out his gun to shoot him yeah Buzo went to fucking get the gun

he shot Buzo here you show me the bullet shot him but he took the gun off the copper and I shot them both killed him? I don't know he said I shot them both I didn't wait to see

he said but the war moving about yeah shot them both and went on the run to Spain went on the run to Spain and he was a pimp started to be a pimp but they were doing it all wrong they were getting girls in from Bosnia,

bringing them in, and holding them hostage, chaining them up. Not even on letting him fucking walk. I went fucking out, really. I said, Abdon had a,

couldn't think, but just let him have a walk, bro, you know? Yeah, seriously, give him some exercise, dude. Give you some fresh air,

though. No, he said, no, he said, if I let them go, they're not going to come back. So it's one of them,

yeah, I think, yeah, okay. So he had a chained, he was, so how did you get caught? you went,

there was a girl from the window, she was shouting, help, help. Wow, police come, got caught. But he had a bent lawyer. He said, I'm going to get bail. And I was shocked because he was really there about two months. And he got bail and his charges were a lot heavier.

Right. But he says, you need this lawyer. But then I can learn Spanish. And then I say, yes, I have one already now. Thanks for that. But I wish I knew you for a year and a half ago. Wow. So his story, Bootsop was a crazy.

the fucker. He wouldn't take no shit off anybody. He was violent. The gypsies in there. Kitanos he didn't like. He was often just fucking, but we used to train. He was a boxer, kickboxer. He was a champion of his area. He was proper tough.

So one time we were training and then he said, okay, chat, I'm going to go to the library for a book. I'm going on. He went to library. Went to the library. He knocked two gypsies out. in the library. Who knocks people on the library? And then the gypies came back. I mean, I said, listen, you offer you new words with him.

If he does this again, we're going to stick him. Okay, I know he's your friend. You walk around with him. We respect you. But I know you're with him. But if you're with him and it goes down, you're going to get it and all. So I said this to Buzzo. I said, listen, you're going to get stuck here, yeah?

Okay? Because these can't fight you. They're not tough, but they have knives, okay? You don't have a knife. You just fight. he went, fuck, man, go fuck. Is that what I said? Who said that?

I went, oh, God, fucking wrong, man. I went, listen, just calm down, yeah. I'm not going to tell you who told me, but you just calm down. He went, okay, fair enough. But then I made sure I stayed by his side. Right. Everywhere he went. Wow.

Because I knew, yeah, if anything happened and I'm there, if they're pulling out knives, they're going to do me as well. Right. Did you ever have to carry a knife or were you pretty cool with everybody? No, I got stabbed there twice. I stabbed somebody once. Really? Tell us about the stabbing.

How'd you get, why'd you get stabbed and who did it? Why did I get stabbed? Okay. The stabbing in the first place, yeah? It's all linked. Both three stabbings are linked. Okay, well, I was only there a few days. First, Carlo, I met, the one who hit the guy with a bottle of vodka, the student.

I was walking the yard with him. There was this other guy, Juan, who just, no, I don't know what he was called. He came off, Moodlu-Wan. I don't know what he'd done, but he was on. punishment for 30 days. So he got sent to our wing. Anyway, he was there crying in that. And I went, what's wrong with him?

So I went to Carlo interpreter. So he asked him in Spanish. And then he repeated it. He went, Juan, the gipsy, the main gypsy, has took his pills off him. Because in Spain, in jail, they just give you pills to calm everybody down. Calm everybody. Yeah, calm everybody. Yeah, volume.

Right. Ironically. Yeah, volume. They gave people your value pills. It's ironic. Right. For sure. Yeah.

And they were giving me a volume. He took his pills off him. So I were, okay, I went, who? He went in. I went, why did you take his pills, yeah? He went, the fuck's it got to do with you. But this is through Carlos, the interpreter. Because I didn't know when in Spanish side, I went, tell him, give his fucking pills back.

And then Carl goes, okay, and then told him, he looked at me, he went, what the fucks have to do with you? And I went, don't take his fucking pills, okay? He's got everything to fucking do with me. You got what we do about it, yeah? we'll have a fight. So Carlo told him, he went to fight, he went, okay, go on then.

I went right. I was a bit shocked, he wanted to fight me here, because then I was still a bit big. And he was like skinny, but tall, gypsy, long hair, dark skin, Romanian. I went all right. Shows, we went to Juan.

He went with one of his of the mates, and Carlo came with me, went into the shower area where the sinks are, The mirrors are in front. The sinks are there. We're there. The showers are there.

The screws none. So I went right. Go on then. Go on then. And then when I went like that, he just pulls out of fucking blade. He went, come on then. Let's go. And then Carlo said to me, check this.

And then he handed me his knife. Because they all carry knives. Carlo had a knife. So he handed me his knife. I went right. Okay, go on then. Anyway, I was in like shot mode. Because I thought it was a fist fight.

I didn't realize it was a knife fight. Right. I was in short mode anyway. Fucking Juan, he came on me, he lunged at me, caught me, bam, sliced me here. When he sliced me here, I instantly just stuck him hard,

bam, straight in the middle. Put him on his ass. Put him his ass, pull the knife out of his hand. Carlo goes, give me the knife. Give me the knife. So I gave him a knife.

He goes, right, I'll get rid of this, you just go walk the yard normal. What are the yards of his normal? I'm right. I was just in a shot mode. I don't know what the fuck was going. on it, yeah. So I just walked the yard, walk the yard,

and then I seen all the schools go in, took him out. And then nothing got said. He didn't grasp me up. He didn't say it was me. Wow. Right. But six months later down the line, his cousin came into our wing. I was training in the gym bit why I had made. There was a sink in the corner. I was washing my face. And then I just felt a fucking, bam, thud, thud in my back. First I thought it's just like a fucking bit of a punch.

And I tear around. I went, I didn't feel anything then at a time. And then I felt fucking blood going down my back out. And then I've seen the shank. It was like a nail on a wood. It's like a long nail. Right. And it was tied up with like duct tape.

It was tied up with a string or string. Yeah. With no, it was like the material from a bed sheet. Ah, yep. Bed sheet. Yeah, it was all figured up, yeah? and that was the handle. Where did he hit you?

What part of the back? He hit me right in the fucking middle. I've got a scar there. Hit me right in the middle. I didn't realize at a time. You must have missed all my arteries. Yeah, I missed a long. And then I just banged him, yeah?

And then I'd seen that and I went, do I get that and stab him? I was that paranoid in getting extra jail. So I would get another eight years, 10 years. I'm thinking I just want to get the fuck out of it, man. So I just left it. And then I went to Carlo. I said, what do I say?

He says, pretend you don't know Spanish. I'll do the talking for you. He helped me out. So I just said, I've fallen back, but I was saying it in English. And then the school was saying, you know Spanish.

I'm, I'm fucked, yeah? I just fallen back. And then Carlos said some of that. They knew what went down, I think, yeah? And then it took me to the hospital wing, stitched it up, and I come back. Him, who I hit, was still on the wing. He was due to go the next day.

he would wait until the 29th day he was there for 30 days to stab me because he knew who was going to go the next day in case I killed him afterwards. But thank God he did leave or else somebody might have had to get killed. Yeah. So people would get extra sentences for stabbing people.

For stabbing people. Yeah, you get eight to ten years on top. Okay. But, you know, these guys are getting hit with so much time. At a certain point, you don't give a fuck? Like in America. And then you share needles, don't you? You just get AIDS, you don't give a fuck?

fuck. That's what I would be so scared of. Like that's what, you know, like somebody stabbing me with their AIDS needle, right? Like that's, I would be so paranoid. I would give those guys whatever they wanted. Just stay the fuck away from me, freak. But I'll give you an example of this.

AIDS people wants to fight me. That's a scientific term, by the way. I've got scars here of my hands. I've got scars in my hands here. Of AIDS people. I've hit them. I've had their blood on my blood. My hands are being cut.

I was convinced I had AIDS. Right. Towards the end of my sentence. I was sharing joints with them and everything because I was convinced like I did, I'd give a fuck. Wow. Because I thought I had AIDS because my hands fucking are fucked.

And their blood, they got AIDS and I went, well, you got it now. You got it now. You're fucked now. That's what they say after a fight. Wow. So you thought you had AIDS. So you must have felt like life was never going to be the same.

If you're okay with that. Yeah. If you're accepting that, you must have been like, oh, my life is pretty much over. Yeah. So you reached a pretty low place for a while while you were there. Mentally and psychologically and emotionally. And I'm sure it was hard on your family.

Yep. You know. Yeah. The other age thing as well as what concerned me was mosquitoes. I went to go from right, okay, one AIDS victim. It's fucking blood and then they're jumping on me. So I was said, so I would have someone, listen. So can you get AIDS?

way. They went, no. The mosquitoes suck in. They don't fucking put it out. They don't put out. They just suck. They just suck. Yeah. Oh, they're like your ex-wife. They just take. They're no give. That's hilarious. That's an old joke. Some black comedian, Cory Holcomb in the United States. He goes, man, I was more terrified than a mosquito coming from Magic Johnson's room. I think it is kind of actually difficult. So you, but So when did you get tested? You didn't think to go down and get tested as soon as you, you know, hit an AIDS person? In Spain, I asked for an AIDS test. They said, no, no, fuck you.

I got tested when I got out of jail in England. They said, no, you don't have it. And I went, I got no test. I didn't believe in the first time around. I went, no, you can't be, you can't be. Because the kitchens as well, where the staff work, if you have AIDS, you get a cushion number. the kitchens, the staff in the kitchens,

blood clots they get, spit them in the food. Because if they've got AIDS, they were everybody else to get it at a donut, you know? Do you know if you've got it? If you're dying, you're everybody else to die as well. Wow. Wow. That's their mentality. Savage. And they don't segregate those people, obviously.

No, no, there's no segregation. This is what I'm saying. In England, it won't be like that, you know? They would like put them in a different like, they would take care of them. Yeah. Give them what they need. Give them the medication.

Give them the care what they need. Yeah. No, you stick them in with all the fucking. gangsters, killers, rapists, drug dealers, murderers, yeah. All in the same pot. So you were about, how,

three years in your sentence when you found out you got a lawyer that told you could pay your way out? No, that was about two years, no, about one and a half years through. Okay.

One and a half years through, yeah? My first lawyer was a lot of bullocks. They kept me on remand for over two years because they thought I had money in Spain. I thought I had a yacht, maybe a house, cars, blah, blah, blah, blah. They wanted to just take it all off me.

So they did their investigation on, but I had no their fuck-all. Right. They just took off me what I had on me. Right. Some cash, my jewels, my rings, my watches, bam, bam, bam. Okay.

So, but when, at what point were you able to pay your way out? What time was I got talking to Antonio and then he said to me, okay, this is a process, yeah? I will get you to court. And he fast, fast forwarded all through. I don't know.

The thing was this, if I knew Spanish and got taught into the people, the important people in the beginning, it would have been out within months. It was a fact of not knowing the language. Crazy. And the barrier facts, you know, like they didn't accept me and I didn't know. So it was, that was factual. Yeah.

So it's when I learned Spanish, they said, right, this is what you want. And it was very, very effective. And even in the end, I didn't do the full three and a half. I got out two months earlier because he got the exposure. I'm not allowed to enter Spain for 10 years. Right. If I enter Spain for 10 years, then I have to do the full sentence.

So you signed an agreement. Yes. No more Spain for 10 years. So that was the agreement to leave two months earlier. I went right, okay, I'll take that one. Okay, but when you actually gave that 11 grand to your lawyer so he could go pay the judge, was there a written agreement? Okay, this knocks off five years from your sentence?

Zero. Nothing like that? Zero. Okay. You just told me, transfer me this money from England into this account and I'll do it. Wow. But I trusted him because of the other boys, they had him and they said, he's the one. He's the one. Wow. Okay. So, and did you get out right away after you transferred the money? No. After transfer the money, we went to court, went to court. They said,

quarter, medial annual, four and a half years. But we were like, wow, okay, we were expecting New Yearby annual. Right. No. So you hadn't even been sent. at this point. This is what's so crazy and I don't think people quite understood that you had been waiting to go to court but in prison. You had been doing a prison bid and had

even been sentenced yet. And it took you two years basically and then paying the money to go before the judge and he gave you a four and a half year sentence. That is wild. Right. That is fucking crazy. In America you're

in jail. You wouldn't be in a penitent. Potentary doing time like Like you're doing life That's crazy But not in Spain Not in places like that dude That's fucking crazy Okay that makes sense

So you did about three in change total Three and a half yeah Shire of about a month Okay Yeah So you came home And what year was that You got back to England?

2002 All right Did you come home with any money You must have Zero zero I had money Why because I was the money lender.

Right. On the wing, right, this is a funny story, yeah. When they told me, because I was training in the gym, the screw shouted out, Sandu, I went,

he goes, you're going home, your papers have come through, or what? He went, you got expulsion. You can't come back to spend for 10 years,

your lawyer. He's a good lawyer. He knew you as well, yeah? He did me all that way. Really? And when all the other people knew, I was going,

the gypsies and all this, they were, oh, check, can I have your job? jacket, can I have your shoes? Can I have you? So I gave everything away. Give all my shit away.

Do you know, all my hoard, yeah? Yeah. I just gave it all the way back to them all. You gave you. I was that happy. Your whole 7-Eleven story. You gave it away, right? I gave it all the way to everybody, and I was left with a pair of shorts and a vest.

I had money and hashish. Okay. I had money in hashish. I shoved them up my ass. Oh. So I was still, even when I got out of jail, I still smuggled Hashish out of jail. So this is like, crazy in it way, yeah.

I'm in there for drugs, but I'm taking drugs out of jail as well because I'm not going to waste it, yeah? So I stood it on my ass. I got to took to Gatwick Airport, handcuffed, me and the two mules, they cleared their back 12 seats.

There was two good marshals there. Make sure I got a Gatwick. They did a check on me if I'm wanted in England, no warrants for me. They went right, took the cuffs off, you're free to go.

And that was it. Wow. Wow. And what happened to the mules? Did they live happily ever after? They get their act together? Yes, they stayed together. They stood together for a few years. Oh, because there were a couple, yeah. Yes, they had three children together. Wow. Yeah. They're all good. I'm still in touch with them now. Oh, wow.

Yes. One of the mules now works for the NHS. He's doing really well. Great. Yeah. They're all doing good. Wow. They said, they don't hate me for it. They said it learned them a lot, taught them about. life. Yeah. Stuff they would never learn on the out. That taught them. We're so thankful for that.

Yeah. In a strange way. Yeah. But you weren't like that. You were not rehabilitated. No. I mean, now it's different. But in 2002, you came home.

Still bitter. Still angry. Yeah. But you've proved yourself in the streets, though. But you, people knew you as Chet the kingpin, Chet the guy who will beat the shit out of you. Chet the guy that rolls with gangsters. Yes.

So did you, when you got home back to England, did you have a plan to go straight or did you know you were hitting the streets? Dush, right. There was no plan. The plan was when I left Spain, I thought if I could go through that and if I could make money there where I made it. I made money in the, right, okay, we are talking.

The worst jail, the worst wing in Europe, if you can make money there from murderers, killers, rapists, people with AIDS, if you can make money there, you can make money, fucking anywhere. So my mentality was this, I'm going to make money again. So I'm going to do it all again. So now I'm going to involve with cocaine. I just took it to a higher level. I thought it was King fucking Kong when I left that jail. There was no rehabilitation, no nothing. They just take you from your fucking cate cell,

handcuffed and put you on the plane and set you free. There's no talking to me. Nobody explained any to me to be, is my mind ready? I've been stabbed there. I've had stabbings. I've been killing. You know, it's like mental. You need a little bit of counseling.

I got zero. So I was straight back in the world. So it emboldened you to be a harder criminal. It was kind of like surviving, getting shot. Yes. Now I'm like, can't be touched. That was your mentality. So you went to cocaine.

Yeah. You're back in Newcastle? Yep. Now tell us about the Coke trade then. We know now that mostly it's an Albanian, at least the news says that it's now in 2024, it's mostly an Albanian dominated business on the import side. Back in 2002, what did the cocaine landscape, the cocaine traffic? Yeah.

How did it work in England? Okay, the cocaine trafficking then, yeah, it was coming through on the ports, on the west side. West side of England, Liverpool, Cumbria. These are the places where I used to get it from. The boats were coming directly from there, and they would hit England on this side. So that's where I was getting it from the source. Wow, the ship's coming from South America. Yeah, the cocaine out got was 84% proof forensics, which was immense.

immense pink flake all in layers or glass soon as you broke her up the smell the for the aura of it it's pure oil oil based beautiful the best who did you know who was bringing it in were it was it the irish gangs or was it coming from south america like who facilitates the big loads yeah the big loads okay um there's big loads it's english people that organize this They come from Venezuela, Bolivia. Some of them take the yachts over themselves. They can drive their yachts. What they do is get hired help.

From that side, hired help. They pay them to bring the stuff over, bam, bam, bam. But when they're nearly to shore, they pop the hired help, throw them overboard. And so there's no witnesses to anything, and then they just do what they want. Wow. Just like with migrant smuggling.

Yes. Same thing. Pop them, yeah. Because there are nobody's at the day. They don't have no links. They don't even have a passport or anything. No identity. These people are easy to take out because they can't go to anybody.

So, and these are the guys that you were getting it from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These people were bringing it into Cumbria. They were farmers. They had loads of land. They had the cocaine buried all over the farm, different plots. I will go meet them, and then they would go, okay, we're going to go dig it up. But they wouldn't show me where.

I would have to wait in a certain area and they would dig it up. Wow. And these are white bits? Yes. Yes. Wow. And how much were you buying from them? I was buying from them a kilo at a time.

And they would sell you just one kilo. Yeah. What were you paying? Paying for a kilo then. 20, 25 grand. That is cheap. But it's 84% proof. Right.

So you can't get a better deal. No. Wow. No. Okay. So then how are you moving that? Where do you go? How do I move that?

Okay, some people would move that. I would move that really in quarters, quarter of an ounce. I forgot what I was charging people then. It depends who I sold the cocaine too. If it was people who know their shit, I would give it them as it is. But I would tell them and I would charge them accordingly. And they said, well, that's expensive. I went, yeah, but I haven't fucking look at it.

Sure. Right, yeah. To other people. I would bash it up 50-50. Right. But it's still coming in at 40% proof. It's good enough for them. Because you don't want to give all these people too high-grade neither.

Because they take it like idiots. When they make a line, they make it fucking huge. Yeah, you don't need that. No. You need a little bit, yeah? And you only need it about once every 45 minutes to an hour. Right. But these people just take it every five minutes because it's not doing you the business.

Right. It's 5% proof. It's shite. Yeah, that's what you're saying. Most of the Coke, your competition, Most Coke gets sold on the street at 5% priority in England. Yeah. Crazy.

So if you're selling at 40, you're killing the game. Yes. So you were just selling to users. You weren't selling to other drug dealers. I was sent to other drug dealers, yeah. Some people would buy off me a quarter of a kilo. I would sell that to them. That's called like a 9 bar.

I would sell them that. But in general, it would like smaller amounts, and I would make a lot of money of that. Yeah. Yeah. But I had my customers, only a few of them, and they would just buy it regular. Right. So.

So off of 25,000 for a kilo, what could you turn that into if you sold it out, right? The 25, 25, 25, we'll probably turn it to about, depends on it was sold to about 80, 80 grand. It's good business. Yeah. It's good business. And low risk. Now, is there a DEA-type police force in England that is dedicated to drugs on a federal level? Yes.

What are they called? Well, right, they're different here, yeah? This one was called Crime Team North. The drug squad, they don't actually have like a drug-based, like, DIA force agency. It's just like a crime team. But we'll get together and then they concentrate on you. Like when I was doing this, I had 21 police officers watching me alone. Wow.

It costs them $5.5 million to bring us to court. Hmm. Okay. Is there like the United States is a federation, right? Yeah. We're not, we're a republic, but we're broken up by 50 different federations, 50 states. Yeah. So you can get charged on a state level and then you can get charged by the United States federal government on a federal level, right? Is there a delineation like that in the British legal system? Are there regional charges versus federal charges or does it all just go to one judicial? It's just one court here, one charge. And so, and that's like the Queens court, or what do they call that?

The Queens court is called, what do you call it? What are they called? Crown court. You've got a Crown court, and when you go to jail, it's HMP Her Majesty's Prisons. Wow. Okay, so that's just if you're a, if you get a DUI or you get caught with 100 kilos of Coke, it's all to the Crown. Yes.

Her Majesty's prison. If it's minor, it goes to a magistrate's court. They're only allowed to give you, though, a sentence of six months maximum. Right. So if it's anything heavier, they will send you a crown court. Okay. I see. I see.

Fascinating. I wonder if that's efficient. Like, I wonder, we should, we're having, we're talking to a cop this week. Yep. I wonder if, yeah, I wonder who stops more drugs. Our country are yours. Who knows? Who stops?

because we have so many different law enforcement wings and so many different classifications but we're a gigantic country too maybe here that's not necessary I don't know now when when cops raid like some drug dealers like a big drug dealer I got 21 cops watching you do they come in with guns they did when I got arrested yeah

okay and because for people who don't know ordinary beat cops Bobby's in England and just cops, you know, riding around, they don't, they aren't armed. They don't have guns on them. No. So if you get raided by a team with guns, that's called like the arms response. Right. Okay.

Yes. Because if you are known to have firearms, history, dealing in firearms, they won't take a risk. So you will get armed responsible criminal arrest. Right. Did you carry a gun while you were selling Coke? Didn't carry a gun, but I had guns. You had guns? Yeah.

How do you get, because guns are pretty. hard to get in England, right? Yeah. They're hard to get, but you can get them. They're only cheap, 300 pound. Right. But you don't know where they've been used. You don't know who's used them before, who's been killed or what, bam, bam, bam.

They just go through the circulation. So you get it, but you only use it one time. One time you use it and then you have to chuck it. Right. Okay. So people get shot to death in the game in Britain still. Yeah. Right.

Was there any of that? Did you hear of any of that while you were in the game? people getting shot yeah people got shot stabbing yeah there was prostitution going on at this time yes

so at the same time you were selling Coke you were like pimping girls out right hours security there was a boss it was a network what we had working hand in hand with the police the police were happy with what we were doing because we cleared the streets of

streetwalkers we cleared the streets Newcastle is the own only city in all of England where you don't get no streetwalkers because we cleared them all. We said if you want to work, you've got to work for us in an apartment. We'll put you in a flat

and he pays rent and you fuck and then you pay us and then you do what you want. But we cleared it. The police were happy with this. We even had a copper with us, a policeman who got seven years because he was giving his information on raids and tip-offs on what

the police were going to do and all he wanted in return was to fuck the prostitutes. You can get cops so easily. In Pakistan, you're paying them off with porno mags. Here, it's just the real thing. Sex again. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, it's sex. Yeah. You can pay anybody off with sex, really. Not me.

I want cash, dude. I've had all the sex. I don't want any more sex. I want money. You were telling me, didn't you have you had competition, right? Last time we talked, you said you ran up on some competitors running a brothel with like a sledgehammer.

Yes. Okay. we used to do yeah back then there was no internet if you other people opened up a brothel you would have to advertise in the daily sport which is a newspaper here a CD newspaper but you have an ad in the back bam a new girl five-star service right so we will check these daily to see if there's any new ones and if there's a new one we will get like a punter yeah like another mule who will have said, right, okay,

you're a pretend, organized that you're going to go, fuck this bird. Because then they were scared of us. So what they used to do was you would have to

go to a phone box and go to a phone box and phone their number and then they can see who's calling out of the window because they would make sure they can see who you are. And then they would say,

okay, enter the house. We would make sure it's some fat old bloc block. Yes, but then there's us three, masks,

machetes, chainsaws, we'll be there hiding. As soon as that door is open, we just, bam, walk inside and say, right, who are you working for? Send your pimps down here,

okay, because we're taking over this now. Wow. So call him, call him. She would call him. They wouldn't come down. Yeah, because we're waiting there with tools. They never come down.

So, right, now we're taking over. Now you have to work for us. And that's how you take a spot of it. Yeah. That's like a Guy Ritchie film. Yeah. Coming in with chainsaws about it's like old school British gangsterism. Yes, but that's what we did.

Wow. And you and at this point in the night, this is the 2000s actually. Are cameras going up everywhere? There was cameras, but not many. No many. Especially not up north in Newcastle. It's not like in the middle of London. Not many, no.

No many. But we were free and easy to do what we do there. We had a lot of fear here. People are faders of what we were doing. We would go everywhere. anywhere and just take the piss basically. Yeah. Yeah.

I was in that mode, but we were getting watched by the police. Right. Didn't realize. I was taking cocaine at a time. My head was a bit all over the place as it is in that world. Yeah, sure, sure. So when did that all end? That all ended in 2003.

We got arrested. And we got arrested. I had a quarter of a key. or cocaine in my car. I'd just been to Cumbria. They've been following me. They knew all my actions. They just didn't stop,

bam, check, got me. And then they ran through everything else, all the other charges. Bam, bam, bam. This is what you've been doing. But we're going to send you on bail. They said, what's that in the block compartment? I went, washing powder.

Because I say that, yeah, I get bail. If I tell them it's cocaine, I go to jail. Romant. So I said, washing powder. They went right. So you're free until we go and test it. So once I've tested it and then they can come and arrest me.

So it gives me a few days. So did you think about running? No. What did you think? So you were only on the street after you got back from Spain for about a year and a bit. Okay. So they arrest you, try you. And they've got like, they've stacked all these other charges.

like a conspiracy? What were some of the other charges? There was a kidnapped charge. The other charges were conspiracy to supply cocaine, controlling prostitution and blackmail. Blackmail? Blackmail? What was that about?

Blackmail is because we're telling the prostitutes, you have to pay, you have to work for us. You have to pay us rent and you are allowed to win. But the rent was only 60 pound a day. Some of them were making $1,000 a day. So they weren't a good deal. Yeah, you weren't human trafficking like your friend in Serbia, Bosnia. No.

Yeah. No. Okay. So they call that blackmail? That's weird. That's blackmail. Were you threatening to go to their families with the information if they didn't pay? Well, we said if you don't pay and then you're going to come to a bad end.

Okay. That's called, yeah. Yeah. That's not blackmail. Isn't it? No. Blackmail is when I film you fucking, you're married. Oh, I get you.

And you're cheating. Yeah. I go to you and I say, give me money or I'm going to tell your wife, that's blackmail. You're right. Okay, yeah. But they name this is blackmail as well. Because if you don't work for us and then you're going to get hurt, so apparently that's blackmail. Oh, well, I mean, that's just what you guys call it.

Look, I'm a fucking American cunt. Yeah. When I hear something in a different country that I don't like, I get mad and I get judgmental. And I say it shouldn't be that way. But that's just, that's my problem. Sure. And I got to deal with that. Yes.

So you got charged with blackmail. Yes. Kidnapping. Kidnapping, right, the kidnap charge. One of my cool defendants started to money lend to drug dealers. He lent this fucking money to this prostitute's boyfriend. She used to work for us. She had a boyfriend drug dealer.

He wanted a 2,000 pound. My associate wanted, right, 2,000 pound on the Monday and 3,000 pound back on the Friday. That was the deal. He didn't pay the fucking money, so we went to kidnap his girlfriend, held her fucking hostage four of us. There was knives, crossbows,

she was fucking terrified, but I gave her, I made it feel easier. I said, listen, no harm will come to you, yeah? But the others were like, coked up, sniffing, and going, we're going to fucking kill him.

We're going to kill your man when we get a hold of him. Where is you? You better get him here now. So she was trying to phone, phone, phone. Listen me, yeah, just be cool, just be cool, yeah.

This would work out. but he has to fucking answer. Anyway, he did answer. He said, okay, he'll drop off the money in a dustbin bin

outside Gregs, which is like a shop on Shields Road. He went, I'm going to put the money in a blue bag, we'll stick it in the bin. You bring the girl

and once I see the bag and then I let the girl go, I went, okay. So he got the money together. He got the money together. He put it in the bin. I took the girl myself, took her to the Gregs.

I seen the blue bag in the bin. Got it out. I'm good. Now, I said the girl, okay, walk. Wow. Yeah. But we went to court because we had a few charges conspicuous by cocaine,

blackmail, controlling prostitution, and kidnapped. They said if you plead guilty to the first three, we'll drop the kidnap. Okay. So it was a deal.

So I took that deal on. What did you take? I took that deal on if you drop the kidnap. How many years? Seven. Yeah, that's a pretty good deal. Yeah.

You know, in America, you get 20 for that. No problem. Especially kidnapping. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so seven years. We'll switch over to the Patreon to talk about prison in England. Okay.

But, wow, that's an incredible life story. What do you think? What do you think, you know, there's a lot, right? There's a lot. You have many layers to you. You know, you're very redeemable. guy. Like you're not an evil guy. You saw a lot of evil.

You saw, you know, horrendous things that these associates of yours were doing, but you always had like a line, you know? And ironically, these gangsters you were rolling with were white. Yep. You and being abused by white people so long, and now

you're like one of them. Did you feel like did that, did you feel some kind of way like I have accepted in the underworld? Yes. Finally? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was these people when I was younger, I was terrified of. I was scared of.

I was thinking, wow, look at these. I never thought I will be one of them people ever. Right. I never thought. I never thought that as a boy, young boy with a stutter, Asian kid, fucking stuck in that fucking shop. I never thought I would rise to that level.

It never even occurred to me. But it just happened. It just happened with the associates. I met, Highway met them, the way I presented myself. I gave them a quality product to everybody. Everything I sold, whether it be pills, steroids or cocaine. It's quality.

I didn't rip anybody off. And I did business like I'm selling anything, you know. It could be anything. It's just business-minded. I used to sell alcohol, food supplements, meat in the shop, and then I saw clothing. Now I'm selling drugs. I'm just selling, selling.

The prostitution, I was security. that when the girls had any grief they would call us if there was a punter coming in taking cocaine wants to slap them about they would phone us there was incidents where customers have come in taxed our girls

rape them fucking well it is rape if you don't pay them so class of rape we don't think so they've done that and we've took these people out followed them

found out where they are nightclubs and my associate. Once, he was on a nightclub. This guy, he taxed one of our girls, took money off her. He was like a known figure. He was on a dance floor, a nightclub, bam, high, bam. My associate went, dance floor,

stabbed him 11 times in the ass. Jesus. In the ass, bam, bam, bam. You can't kill anybody if you stubbed in the ass. Right, stab him 11 time the house, and then we went to the security. You went right, okay, hand over all the CCTV you got. And they hand it all over.

They were terrified of us. Yeah. We had the free to do what we wanted. Yeah. Go anywhere we wanted and do what we want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So now you would achieve this thing that you were raised in a powerless situation. And every the whole society, the courts, the cops, they didn't protect you from the abuse, none of it. And now you had finally overcome that through rolling with these people. Yes. We just crack the code right there. You don't even need to go see. Yeah, I got to the highest level on that. Yeah.

Whether I wanted that in the first place, I don't know. What do you, when you look back, like, what do you think you learned? Like, how did you grow out of that life after you got out of prison? Was it just the fear of going back that kept you straight? What it was, yeah, it was my mother. I can do the jail, but my mother can't. It hurt too much, man. I killed her, killed her off.

She goes, you don't need to do this. We have good links. We have good family. We have money. You don't need to do any of this. My family members, they stuck by me. And then that's when I moved on to working with my cousins, Asian cousins. But what they were doing were importing alcohol, bootlegged.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's save that for the Patreon. So I want to hear about that. Your parents, your poor, poor parents, do your father, do you resent your father? Yeah, a little bit, yeah, because I wanted to go to art college. I wanted to art college, I wanted to do things, I wanted to be an artist. He didn't let me, he just wanted me to be a staff member.

Stook me on the tail and it got that head. The racism was that bad, yeah? I'll give you an example here. On Saturdays in England, back then, Saturdays, pubs, boozers would close. They were open from 11 and then closed. at 3 o'clock. And then they reopened at 5 o'clock. This was a law.

So they didn't stay open all day because they don't want people to get a drunk called in. They were probably about then, yeah? So what happened? Yeah, we had two boosers on either side of our shop. And a social club and another boozer and they all used to close at 3 o'clock. And then what happened then,

there were about 30 men in the 30s and 40s, just used to pile into the shop, steal, take it. they want, abuse me, do what the fuck they wanted. I couldn't do nothing. And my dad was there at first, but he couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle it, yeah? He couldn't handle all these geysers coming in.

So he decided to take that day off. So he left me on my own with the staff members. So I handle all that shite on my own. Load of times where people fucking steal something. Had a bottle of vodka down the pants. They'd come and pay for a pie, 60 pence. And I said, well, what about the bottle of vodka? You got on the pants? He went, well, I'll come around the bat of that tail

and jump all over your fucking blackhead. How does that sound like you? Nothing I'll do about it. Handing phone the police because it's not even the fence. So I went, okay, fuck it, fuck it. But these are the people I fucked up, I tracked down. I did a Charles Bronson on all these motherfucked.

And I fucked them all up. They see me now and they fucking look away and I know who they are. I don't recognize them. But they recognize me. They know me. And I know who they are by when I see them and they put their head down.

And you'll put your fucking head down for a fucking ring. reason. You've obviously abused me in the past. So I just had to get this in my head where I will just still go with them. There's some forgiveness that I think you still need to achieve.

I think you should start with your father because do you understand that he just, even though he worked you in a shitty little store, it's better than growing up on the border of in Punjab and India. Do you recognize the sacrifices that

he made for you guys? Yes. You can at least appreciate that. Yes, I do appreciate that. But also, when I was living my father, for the first year, my sister was still in schooling in Huddersfield in Yorkshire. So it was just me and my dad there. I had to cook, clean, was never allowed out until I was 21. I was 21 until I even kissed a girl.

I had no life, zero fucking life. Because my old man had me on serious fucking lockdown. So I had a lot of fucking built-up shit of me, yeah? It wasn't only the white guys spitting on me, called me a packy. I had my old man beating me up as well. I was 18 years old, yeah? I had some hair in my lip, yeah?

A little bit of a tash. The staff members in the shop used to take the piss out of me. Bumfluff, yeah? So I shaved it off. My dad come back from the pub, seen I shaved it off, and he beat me up. If you're having a shave, not allowed to.

Should have asked him first. Yeah. Yeah. That's hard, man. Get it? I cook clean, work and take shit. This has made me the person I'm fucking am. I know sometimes I'm still not right in the fucking head.

I react on it. I just snap like that and the slightest little thing, which I shouldn't do. I shouldn't do, but I do it. It happens all the time. I need to get my head around that because I'm just like used to like taking shit, taking shit. And then I got to a point where I take zero tolerance. runs. And now I'm still at that point. It's like jail mode is still in my head. Like I stand

on my back of the wall. Yeah, I don't want anybody walking behind me. If anyone's behind me, I get like, I don't like it. I like to see everything in front of me, know my environment and know where I am. If anything happens, I react. Like my girlfriend says, you're still in jail mode. You still have that mentality of you're in jail. You're not in jail. When these people are talking to you, you don't need to react like you do. But I don't know. know why I do that. But I do do that. But it's not just a jail.

I think it's just a shit I fucking took. It's not normal. I take all that shite. But I did give it all back. Well, what I would say is, you know, evolution is overcoming what your family did to you. That's what evolution is. It's, if you don't evolve, you're going to die.

I evolved from, you know, the chains, the mental chains that my own family had put on themselves just through genetics, just through years of the cycle it being done to them. And I threw it off. And I would never change a thing

because it's my proudest accomplishment. And I had it way easier than you. I was never beat or anything like that. There was abuse, but it's not like immigrant, Indian immigrant, 80s abuse, right? So it's not your fault,

but I think you do yourself, a disservice. And you know that when you're locked up and you're like fuck man, you know, you people walk around with their chest puffed out on the yard. Like, nah, the other man got me this way. That's what they say in the States. The other man meaning the government,

the white guys, you know, white society. They got me this way. No, no, no, no. You let them. And so what I would say is, Chet, you're I love kicking it with you, man. You're a good guy. There's a lot of good in you. More good, I would say, than not.

And, you know, you're just a, you're a fly guy. You're a get money guy. So I would just, I really appreciate you coming on, man. It's going to help some people. You relaying your story, you know? Yes, I hope so, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Seriously. How do you feel? Do you feel good talking about it at least? Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Don't snap on us.

Yeah, yeah. No, no. All good with it, man. It's all goodness, yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. people. Because I get a lot of messages of people,

Asian boys in a similar position to me. They said, okay, I'm going through a similar thing with you. How do I handle it? How do I handle these white people? Just give me shit. I went, well, do have a structure there? Any friends? And they go,

no. And I think, fucking, I'm well, you're like me, you know? I can't tell you to pick up a fucking knife or a hammer, you know? But that's the answer. Pick up a hammer. time to come on, you pick up a fucking hammer and say, let's go, baby. Let's go for it.

You know what I would say? You know what Joe Rogan used to do? Because he was a short little fucking got picked on. He learned jiu-jitsu. He built his body up and he never had to fight anybody because he, through the process of martial arts and weightlifting, he just, he started to carry himself with an aura of, like, confidence and nobody really ever tried him. Because he has that capability.

Exactly. People can see it. Exactly. So instead of a hammer, I would say learn, make yourself the hammer, you know. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. You know? So where can the people find you, man? Where can people find me? On Facebook, Instagram. Chatsandu 666.

My website, chatsamdu.com. Facebook. I'm on there. What's on the website? You have a book? I have books out. Yeah. South Made Juice paid

I bought your copy down as well Awesome That's my life story But that takes me up to 2002 After the end of the Spanish Sentence And then I'm going to write my second book Cool

From from 2002 onwards Yeah hell yeah And we're going to put the link To that book in the description And all your social media And everything like that And you know we need more people in England You know we do have some fans here though

So reach out to you man He's approachable he's a really nice guy we swear you know he's reformed sure and uh yeah and uh yeah we're gonna switch over to patreon now talk a little bit more um but yeah chet uh glad we finally got to sit down in person you know this was a killer interview yes thanks buddy thank you for everything as well patreon dot com slash the connect show with the one and only chet sandu newcastle's baddest motherfucker take care guys right guys Thank you.