The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Diddy’s Bad Boy Rapper Got Away With Murder For 17 Years — Then Confessed

Episode Date: September 20, 2026

Former Bad Boy rapper G. Dep sits down to tell one of the most unbelievable stories in hip-hop history. Growing up in Harlem during the height of the crack era, G. Dep went from hustling in the streets and battling drug addiction to landing a record deal with Bad Boy Entertainment and becoming one of the label’s rising stars. But behind the success, the music, and the fame was a secret that continued to haunt him. In 1993, at just 18 years old, G. Dep was involved in a fatal shooting in Harlem. He was never arrested for it and eventually moved on with his life, signing with Bad Boy and building a successful rap career. But nearly two decades later, the guilt became too much. In December 2010, G. Dep walked into a New York City police precinct and confessed to the crime — 17 years after it happened. In this episode, G. Dep opens up about growing up in New York City, selling drugs, getting arrested repeatedly, discovering hip-hop, signing with Bad Boy, working around Diddy and some of the biggest names in rap, battling addiction, and the incredible decision that ultimately sent him to prison. He also explains what was going through his mind when he confessed, why he was willing to face the consequences, his trial and prison sentence, the road to clemency, and what it feels like to finally be free and making music again. This is the story of G. Dep — from the streets of Harlem to Bad Boy Records, prison, redemption, and a second chance at life. Go Support G. Deb! IG: https://www.instagram.com/gdepofficial/ YouTube: @gdepofficial TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gdepofficial Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/trevell.g.dep.coleman Merch: https://lovethehustler.com/collections/g-dep This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: Kalshi! Download the Kalshi app and use code MITCHELL to get $10 when you trade $10. 18+ only. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Kalshi products are not available in all jurisdictions. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information see kalshi.com/regulatory. Cloaked! See if your SSN is for sale right now. My sponsor Cloaked will tell you for free in 2 seconds at https://cloaked.com/CONNECT. Hims! To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/connect Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 0:00 Intro: Why G. Dep Turned Himself In 6:24 Growing Up in Harlem During the Crack Era 12:03 Breakdancing, Early Rap & Becoming G. Dep 18:00 Selling Drugs & Early Drug Use 21:59 This Episode Is Sponsored By Kalshi 23:05 Drug Cases, Jail & Hearing About Tupac 34:20 Escaping an Undercover Arrest 42:19 This Episode Is Sponsored By Cloaked 43:50 The Song That Led G. Dep to Bad Boy 52:14 The 1993 Shooting 1:01:36 This Episode Is Sponsored By Hims 1:03:13 Police Question G. Dep the Next Day 1:07:22 Living With the Secret & Growing Guilt 1:14:22 G. Dep’s Relationship With Diddy 1:19:48 Writing Lyrics for Diddy 1:26:03 PCP, Fame & Coping With the Murder 1:33:16 Bad Boy Parties & Addiction Taking Over 1:40:29 Reconnecting With Diddy After Bad Boy 1:48:54 Deciding to Turn Himself In 1:56:24 Walking Into the Precinct to Confess 2:02:07 Arrested After a 17-Year-Old Confession 2:09:53 Taking the Murder Case to Trial 2:15:27 15-to-Life, Clemency & Coming Home 2:20:34 Life Today, New Music & What’s Next Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I had a gun. I was riding around on a bike. I thought maybe I was going to get a jackpot. I was just trying to scare him, and I just shot, bah, bah, bah. And that's when he fell. And then I looked back, he was on the ground. When I signed the bad boy, I kind of was at the point where it was like, okay, move on. As time went on, it was haunting me. You know, that should be bothering me, man.

I might, you know, turn myself in for that, man. I needed help. I used the justice system for my benefit. In December of 2010, a man walked into a New York's City Police Precinct and confessed to a murder that he'd committed in Harlem back in 1993. That man's name was G. Depp, a best-selling rapper under Sean Diddy Combs' record label, Bad Boy Entertainment. Today, I sit down with G. Depp to hear his life story of how he went from small-time crack dealer to a successful rapper on the biggest music label in the world at the

time. And why, after getting away with a murder, did he decide to turn himself in seven years later. And for a bonus episode with Depp where he tells wild prison stories, and yes, what it's actually like working for Diddy, head over to patreon.com slash the Connect show. And of course, don't forget to subscribe to the channel so that you never miss an episode. Ladies and gentlemen, this man and his story are a part of hip-hop history. It's G-Depp right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. It seems like a lot of the dudes that caught bodies from New York during the crack era, like yourself, it seems like a lot of those guys got out. Yeah.

You know, because they had the indeterminate, you know, 15 to life, 20 to life. And New York, obviously, as things started to thaw out, and they realized this was a phenomena, the crack era. These were 16, 17-year-olds. Right. You know, they're completely different people now. The grown men. That's what I think happened too. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. A lot. Because back then, you know, like, you know how it was. Yeah, it was just like, lock them up. But everybody was everybody had a body. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a fact. It was like, it was a wild wild west out here, man. Literally, you know what I mean? And yeah, this is the wild wild west. Literally. I like, I like Texas, though, man. The vibe of it is kind of like, you know, it reminds me almost kind of like New York. in a funny way. Well, Texas is the New York of the South in that these people think they're just

the best. Yeah. You know, the New York attitude? Yeah. Nobody... You can feel it, though. You can feel it. You know what I'm saying? It's cool. Yeah, it is what it is. But I understand the New York attitude, because that really is the best city in the world. So you can have a little bit of ego, but come on, cowboys. All right, I get it. I get it. You know, I would, I would probably feel kind of on a, you know, a high horse, lack of a better word

about living in Texas, too, though. You know, it's such an iconic place, you know what I mean? Houston. Yeah, Houston. Just saying Texas, you know, you know,

you think about, you know, when I woke up this morning, I was looking out of the window, all I thought about was like, the Alamo and shit like that. You know what I'm saying?

Like, this is a historic place too, though. Totally. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, totally. You know. Yeah, it's its own universe.

Yeah, like, you know, so, you know, I get it. G. Depp, it's kind of surreal sitting across from you. All my people from the early 2000s, I told them you were coming on, and they all were like, good for you. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, from the bad boy era and the special delivery.

I mean, you were really, like, popping. Oh, man, thanks, man. Those are the days, man. And what's interesting is I looked into you more, and it's like you're not just the bad boy era. Like, you're a real artist. You were putting in work and putting out, you've put out a lot of music. I appreciate it. Yeah, I love it.

I love, you know, I'm a hip-hop fan, you know? So it's like, I just love to, you know, make music, like, you know what I mean? Like, I love the art, the art of it, you know what I mean? Yeah. So you go back, well, tell us how you grew up, where you grew up, and when you started rapping. Okay. Well, I grew up, I grew up in Harlem. You know what I mean?

You know, I live, I grew up in a single parent household. Where do you come from Harlem? I grew up on the east side of Harlem, what they call Spanish Harlem now. You know what I grew up, you know, first I was living in like what they call now, Washington Heights, up in, on Broadway. like 16, excuse me, on Amsterdam, 164th. So I grew up like kind of on the west side of Harlem, you know what I mean? And, you know, single mom, she was young. When she had me, she was about 19, 18, you know what I mean?

So like, you know, she was young listening to music and, you know, she was into the young culture and I was just watching her, you know what I mean? So like, you know, as I, you know, as I grew up, I just was into music, into, you know, into what was, you know, hot, what was the, you know. Yeah, you grew up in the best era where rap was hip-hop was exploding out of New York. Yeah, and then also that, that R&B era where, you know, like, you know, the Luther Vandrosses and the new additions and, you know what I'm saying, that all of those sensations were album and Nudo and all, you know,

it was a lot of, like, sensations in the 80s still, like coming out of that 70s, 60s, you know, bebop, or vibe. you know, the temptations and like songwriting was still a big thing. You had Michael Jackson, you know what I'm saying? So like I came from like that whole era of like music that was still quality, you know? So, you know, I just, I just, I think it just, you know, I just kind of like, it just like rubbed off on me. Right. So were you in the streets first or were you rapping first and then you got into the streets or was it kind of both at the same time? I mean, growing up in Harlem, man, it's like you forced to be.

Like, as soon as you walk outside, you're a street guy. You know what I mean? Like, I was, you know, from a young age, like, we were just little men. Like, you know what I mean? Just go. Come out, come back in the house when the lights come on. You know, as soon as the lights came on outside, the street lights, you know, it was time to go upstairs. Because it was a whole other life after that, you know.

That's when you start hearing the gunshots, bah, bah, you know what I mean? So it was like, retreat, you know what I mean? That's wild. Yeah, it was, it was- Every day. It was just like, you know, oh, the lights came on y'all. Everybody just starts, you know, disappearing y'all see you later, you know. Yeah, 164th of Broadway, I've been up there.

Yeah. It was rough. That was the copping spot. Yeah, that's where you go. Got a wholesale package and be on your way. But it wasn't like that when I grew up. When I grew up, it was kind of more, it was still like black. Yeah.

know, not to, not to, you know, be racial about it, but it was kind of, you know, now, you know, as time went on, you know, Dominicans moved in that area. So, you know, they brought with, they were dealing with there, you know, and that's what most people know, you know what I mean. But when I was growing up, it was, that wasn't the neighborhood. It was just, you know, still mostly black people there. I mean. So this is wild that I'm talking. to you, the last time that I heard about you, I had just got locked up on my case back in 2010. I was in the county jail in Portland, Oregon. I flipped open the source. You know how when you're in

jail, some magazines come through and you're trading soups to get your hands on it for a day. So I'm flipping through it. And boom, one of the first articles, it's G. Dep walked into a precinct in a town, Harlem, and confessed to a murder that he had done 12, 15 years before. And I was just like, wow, dude is washed. But this is crazy. He must have lost his mind. And we're talking now a week after Keefei D. is convicted of conspiring to kill Tupac. And that whole investigation got started with him basically confessing, but on camera.

Right. Sheesh. Yeah, I mean. A little different. Yeah. But it's... I can say sheesh, you know what I mean? Because, you know, it's like, you know, if you didn't mean to, like, confess, it's kind of wild.

You know what I mean? You didn't know. You confessed for, well, you're about to tell us, and we'll get there. But it's just wild how all this stuff from the 90s, you know, including the ditty stuff that happened last year a couple of years ago. So it's wild how that era is so long ago, but now it's kind of coming, it's coming home to roost, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

Nobody gets away with anything, even if you do get away with it. Right, yeah, I'm gonna prime example with that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so talk about the rapping, like, how did you get started? Because you were rapping long before, you know, Puff Daddy, who was known back then, found you. So talk about how that kind of progressed

and how you built up your chops. I mean, well, like I said, I was a fan of hip hop. You know, I'm still a fan of hip hop. And I'm, you know, I just like listen to the, you know, the Golden Era hip hop, you know, EPMD, Big Daddy King, you know, Rock Kim, K-Iriss 1, you know, all of that. Big Al? Yeah, Big Al. But this is like, you know, before Big Al was probably listening to these guys as well.

You know what I mean? So I was, you know, talking about 84, 85, you know, Soul Sonic Force. you know, and all of this stuff, you know, first dropped. And, you know, like I said, like, I was just into music because of how my mom's lived. And, you know, she was young still throwing little house parties. And I'm just the little kid mudd around in the house party. You know what I mean? And, you know, so I just started, you know, one day I never forget.

I was watching Video Music Box. And EPMD, you guys, The Chill came on. And I just, man, it just mesmerized me. I'm just like, you know, the digger smack, you smack me and I smack your back. And I'm just like, I'm like, whoa, I'm like, how are they doing that? Like, you know, I was like, wow. Like, it was like magic. Like, you know what I mean?

Like how they were putting the words together and they were just, you know, something just clicked. Like, and I was like, wow. And I was like, yo, you know, I'll never forget that day. I was like, I'm going to be a rapper. I was like, yo. I said, man, I'm going to stop. And I like kind of sat there. It was nighttime.

because I used to tape the stuff while I was at school. And then when I came home, I would watch the tape. You know, you know how you could time. You had a little time on your, you see, all. So I figured out how to tape the video music box at like 3.30. You know, it would tape for an hour. And then I would come in, you know, do my thing. And then watch it at night before I went to sleep.

So I sat there in the dark. I tried to write a little rhyme real quick. You know, it was something crazy. Then, you know, that's how it started. Hmm. You know, and then from there, I just, you know, we'll try to write. Just, you know, keep practicing it and practicing it. Did you have a crew?

Nah, I didn't have a crew. I was down with a breakdancing crew, though, at one point. You know what I'm saying? I was nice with it. I had the little up rock, you know what I'm saying? You know what I said? All of that. And then I do my little back spinning.

You know, I was the backspinning guy. Like, you know what I mean? You weren't spinning on your head. No, I wasn't. You could hit the back. Yeah, I could hit the back. It was pretty dope. Yeah, yeah.

The head, I wasn't really nice, pause. I wasn't really nice with it. You know what I'm saying? The windmills, I was good at that, but I was the backspin guy. You know, I would come and do my little backspin and then, you know what I'm saying? So I was down with them. You know, I had a little crew when I lived in the Bronx. But I didn't have a writing crew, though.

Like I didn't have like a, I did, I did, I did start a little, what you call it? You call it a group, a rap group with my man. My man, that's how I actually got my name, a dude named Kimo Saab, Eddie. Eddie is my man, Eddie Ed Mabel. You know what I mean? One day we were at school and I was like, yo, I was beating on the desk.

And then he was like, yo, you rhyme. I was like, yeah, man, I'm nice, you know what I'm saying? I'm like just, wow, you know what I mean? He was like, where with me too? So he started rhyming. And then, you know, I was like, wow, man, you dope. Like, he had, like, this storytelling kind of rap, you know? And he was like, yo, we should start a group.

And I was like, bet, you know, and that, and he was like, so he was like, what are we going to name our group? And I was like, let's try, let's go for like, like, let's do like the Cowboys and Indians. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, let's try to be like a cowboy and Indian kind of, like, that's just came in my mind. Like, yo, like, let's be a cowboy and Indian group. Like, you know?

And he was like, I bet I'm going to be Kim Osabi. And I was like, I, and I was like, I'm going to be the deputy. Which is, I don't know why I thought as a young age, my young mind associated the deputy with a cowboy. You know what I mean? So I'm like, all right, the deputy. You know what I'm saying? He was like, all right, I was like, then I was like, but I'm going to be the general deputy. And he was like, oh, okay, okay.

And so I was the general deputy for about three hours. And then when I wrote it down, I saw that it said, you know, G. Dep. And I was like, I was like, nah, I'm a shortening it because it seemed long. His name was kind of long, too. I was like, I'm going to be G. Depp. And it stuck. And it just stuck. And how old were you?

I was probably 12. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you put out mixtapes or like full albums before? for Bad Boy? No, we just did, we just did like singles and stuff like that. I was signed to like a management company, JFK Entertainment,

Management, and JFK Entertainment, I'm sorry. And, you know, so, you know, he used to like put out music, like, he was, he was, he was He was, you know, he had an entrepreneurial spirit. Like, he was like, yo, we could press up music. You know, this was the 90s. You know, he's like, yo, we could press up music and just take him over the tape kings and have them sell them on assignment and things like that.

So that's what we was doing. We were just pressing up singles and, you know, putting our money together, going to studio. And that's what we was doing, taking them to the radio. Traditional, listen to my demo stuff, you know? Yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, you know, running into record labels,

You know, look, you know, listen to my stuff. Yeah. Stuff like that, you know what I mean? But a lot of people got on that way. Hell yeah, hell yeah. We could have got on that way, but it didn't happen that. It didn't happen for us that way. Right.

You know what I mean? We went to a few execs that they were like, you know, yeah, keep working. Yeah. You know what I mean? One of those things. Okay, so a whole theme, a whole underlying theme in your story is drugs, drug abuse. when did you talk about that? Like, you know, most people don't know that you had like a pretty, a pretty wicked habit by the end.

Were you selling drugs or was it just like a thing you were smoking weed and that progressed into, you know, harder shit? Well, yeah, yeah. That was like my earlier years when I dropped out of college. And, you know, I had an early, early, you know, drug dealing. I mean, drugs was kind of always, you know, a part of like my life. Like, you know what I'm saying? Not, not, you know, sometimes not directly, but inadvertently. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, I grew up in the crack era, you know, so it was like, you know, I had to watch family members, you know, the dope era, you know, my aunt, you know, she was, you know, God rest of thought or so, she was, you know, she was a heroin addict when I was young. So I watched that, you know, firsthand, you know, in the house with her, you know. You know, then, you know, going into the mid-80s, you know, my mom, she went through her thing, you know, with the Coke and, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. But, you know, she, you know, she had a minor, a minor stint with it. But, you know, I'm young, as a young kid, that's why you got to watch what you do around young kids because people think that little kids don't know.

know what's going on. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was one of those things which, you know, she thought I was just so young that I didn't observe what was happening, you know? But she, you know, she cleaned herself up and, you know, it was one of those things that it came and went. But I always was around, you know, drug use and drug selling, you know. I had older cousins that was into, you know, selling drugs and things like that. So I knew about, you know, selling drugs at an early age, you know. And so I saw, I sold drugs at an early age as well, you know, but it was a quick little stint when I was in the eighth grade. I sold some drugs and, you know, kept it moving.

You know what I mean? But, you know, so fast forward to like the 90s, you know, I was, you know, out there slang in and banging. You know, I got, I dropped out of college in 1993. Yeah, 93? Yeah. And I started, you know, I just dove, dove in. Dove in, man. You know.

Hustling. Yeah. You know, I was selling Coke crack at first. You know what I mean? And then, you know, I went and figured out, you know, I could buy my own Coke and, you know, chop it up and put bag it up. And so I started selling Coke. In the projects? Yeah.

Okay. And you're on the west side now. You're in Spanish Harlem? No. Yeah, I'm on the east side. Oh, east side. Right. Yeah, the Spanish Harlem.

Okay. So, you know, so. So, you know, and then, you know, the drug, the drug use, well, the hard drug use, because I was, you know, super weedhead, you know. And, you know, everything else that was out there, you know, we were just young, masculine, popping. Really? Yeah, we was out there, you know. It's like a hippie drug. Yeah, because we were, the neighborhood I was from was, was notoriously famous for just drugs.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, you could come there. You can get anything. You know what I mean? So, you know, dudes were selling tabs. You know, tabs was, that's what they used to call them at the time. Acid? Yeah, it was little, like, paper, little paper tabs.

And so that was big in my neighborhood, you know, as well. So we had super access to that. You know, we were young. You get two of those, you know, we go pop them, tripping, like, you know what I'm? We're black kids running around home on acid. Tripping. That's the first time I've ever heard of that. I thought it was hippies on college campus.

Oh, hell, no. We was out there going crazy. The floor is going, waving up and down. Pop walking. Yeah, like, we were like, oh, my goodness. Do you see that? Because I see that. I see it.

Do you see it? But yeah, so we was like, you know, so we was out there just, just wowling, you know. And, you know, as time progressed, you know, the, you know, the drug use. you know, you know, it was only, it was only one, you know, two ways you can go with that. You can even stop or you just kept going, you know what I mean? Well, as a drug dealer, though, you know, back then it was really in the 90s, and even when I grew up in the 2000s, it was really taboo for inner city kids to use Coke and crack because they just saw what it did to their parents.

Right. So that was like you would be shunned if they found out you were smoking crack. You're finished. Yeah. Right? Yeah, that's how it was in my neighborhood, too. Like, you know, that's what I mean. Like, with the drug use, it was only two ways to go.

Like, you know what I mean? So, like, you know, as we were getting older, you started seeing, like, who was who? You know what I mean? Like, yo, okay, he's smoking. You know what I mean? He's getting money. You know what I mean? So, like, I was, you know, I was this guy.

You know, I was getting money. You know what I mean? So it was like, you know, but once, you know, I got to, a little, once I got signed, you know, where I wasn't out there hustling. Right. You know what I mean? I kind of, you know, I started turning to the PCP, you know, to kind of just, you know, check out, you know, and that's kind of how I progressed into, you know, that drug.

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It's not crack. Yeah. So it's what's the big deal? Right. Do you think that actually, though, led you to using hard stuff later? Yeah, it might have been a gateway, you know what I mean? Because, you know, the brain has the threshold thing. You know what I mean?

It's like, yo, you did this so you can do that. You know what I mean? Well, I think artists, even though a lot of... rappers were in the streets, I think you're still more of an artist than you are a drug dealer. Like real drug dealers were never like, I'm about to be a rapper. Yeah, right. Like, I'm about to be a king. Why?

Right, exactly. You know what I? Like, why would I? I'm getting money. I don't need to do that. I've spent $100,000 in a day. Yeah, like, why would I, you know what I'm saying? So, so.

But did you, when you were selling, when you had your coat going, were you, did you still have intentions to become a rapper? Yeah, that's the, that's the whole thing. The whole time I was, in the street, I had aspirations to rhyme. Like, I used to use my money to go to the studio, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Me and my bro, we would put our money together, make our tapes.

That was how I kind of got, you know, into dealing with the manager guy because I was, you know, known for rapping. Right. You know, and then dudes was like, yo, this guy, you know, he's pretty. My other man of Raw Beans was dealing with him. And he was like, yo, I was. I got my other man, he's really dedicated. So I wind up signing with him.

Okay. You know, but that's what I was doing. I was hustling. You know, that kind of had a, like, ends to a mean. So that was kind of what I was doing. Did you catch a case at all, like as a youth selling drugs? Did I not catch a case? Man, that's what I was doing, man.

It's like I had. And like, I noticed that now. Now, you know, in my life, you know, where people, when I see people getting arrested, like kind of repeatedly, like I kind of tell them, like, you got to watch that because that used to happen to me. Like, I would get arrested, you know, small things, and it will always be like a warning that I wouldn't heed, you know what I mean? And I would wind up getting like a real, like, kind of, like, bid, you know what I mean?

So that's what, that's how my, my kind of my kind of. my career drug dealing career so to speak went like I was just catching case after case after case then I wound up just doing time you know what I mean before bad boy yeah okay for a bad boy you figure 96 when it's wild that we're talking about it because when when two pot got killed I was I was and I was incarcerated I was in shock I was in the shock program and I never forget the D.I. that we had. He was a hard dude. And like, we kind of didn't mess with him. Like, we was like, not happy. You know what I mean? And like, one day he, like, just came in the

dorm. He was like, everybody, everybody gathered around for a minute. And so we just like, he usually don't, like, you know, conversate with us. Like, he was kind of real, like, you know, to the book, by the book. And then he was like, look, he was like, I know you guys listen to, you know, your rap and stuff like that. He said, they just killed your boy, Tupac. And you know, you And I just wanted to take, because we couldn't watch videos or look at no, you know, listen to any music or anything. So we didn't know what was going on out there. But he told us about it. Wow.

Yeah, yeah, man. And when I came home, you know, that was, that's what kind of led to the bad boy situation, you know. That must have been crazy. Were you a fan of Tupac? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was just the guy, man, you know? For sure. Yeah. For sure.

It was ill. Yeah, so you finished shock. Shock was the drug program. So if you catch a long bid for selling drugs, you could take this six-month shock. Yeah. And if you finished it, they cut out the rest of your sentence. Yeah.

I caught a catching all of those cases. I caught a two to six. I had caught a felony first. What it was was I got arrested selling crack. Like my first little case in about. like 94. You know what I mean? Me and the gentleman, we was selling crack in another area.

And we got caught. I got caught. We all got kind of caught because they was watching me from, well, I didn't come to find out. They was on the roof just watching us. You know what I'm saying? So we all went down, you know what I mean? Whoever was running the customers, whoever was so, you know what I mean? So we all went down.

You know what I mean? I got a buying bus. They wind up giving me a YO because that was my first offense. So I got a YO for that. So the stipulation was I couldn't get in any more trouble for five years. So I was on probation, right? So fast forward to 95. You know, I'm still, you know.

Now I'm in another area. I'm in my neighborhood now. I figured out that I could buy some coke, chop, you know, and get my own stuff. Like, you know what I mean? So I figured that out. So now I'm hustling in the neighborhood. How much coke were you picking out?

Not a lot. I wasn't the most I was doing the eighth, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? 60 grams. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? 64, 60s. Two ounces here and there. You know what I mean?

I was just hustling, you know, making my money buying my little gear, you know, keeping my my weed, you know, shit like that. And so, you know, but like I said, my whole. aspiration was to rap. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, so, so it was, to me, it was just a side thing. It was just something that I needed money.

You know what I mean? I didn't have a job. You know what I mean? So that's what I did for money. You know what I mean? So, you know, I wound up catching the case. Oh, so, so I got a quarter, a quarter sale, right? So they, they, the, the, the, the, yo, look, we told, you know, that was just, you know,

I was in stipulation. So now you're going to have to do a one and a half to three. So they said, all right, come back. You know what I'm saying? Come back at a certain time. And we'll, you know, we're going to sentence you to turn yourself in. Yeah, the one and a half to three. So I said, okay, bet.

So I comes, I catch, I catches another case while they tell me to come back. Right? So now this is three felonies now. You know what I mean? So now I got three felonies, right? And I forgot how they, I think they actually let me out again. It was like, yo, look, come back in to get sentenced. Because now you got these three felonies.

And, you know, this is how the 90s was, ROR. You know what I mean? And I used to be, like, I couldn't believe they let me go. I was like, really? They was like, look, okay, we know you got three felonies. this place is packed hundreds of you a day Yeah they was like come back

And you do your sentences And when you come back And then you know That's that's that You're probably going to get it They said a two to four now They said you're going to get it two to four And so I'm like damn

You know what I mean So I go home And then you know So now I'm home I'm trying to like remember How the hell did I get out That second time But anyway.

You can tell you're a real criminal. You know why? Because real criminals don't remember all the tickets I caught. Yeah. They don't remember all the fucking beefs. Yeah, it was a lot of them. Yeah, like, I don't know. I know.

It's like having a job resume. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I did that at one point. You know what I'm saying? But, man, so, like, I came home. And so I know I came home and I was supposed to turn myself in. I went in. And so that was what happened. That's what happened.

So when they said, when they gave me the, the second time, when I came, when I got locked up, and he said, yo, look, you got three felonies now. Go home and turn yourself in at this time. You'd probably do a two to four, this, such, and such, right? So I comes back in, oh yeah, that was how, that was what happened. The second, the second time when I first got the wire, when they told me to come in, right?

I come, I go back. I booth the weed, swallow some weed, all this, you know what I mean? Because I know I'm going in, right? I get there and they say, yo, we can't, we can't take you today. I said, what? I said, I said, oh, bet. You know what I mean? So I go back home.

I never forget that. I was like, you can't take me. I remember saying goodbye to the neighborhood. Like I looked, I was like, yo, you know, I'm like, damn. I couldn't believe I was actually going to turn myself in. that was the first thing, you know what I'm like, damn. I remember what I had on and all that. I had the purple North Face on.

And I go down there and they say, yo, not today. So I was like, well, I got all this weed. I got, you know. I got balloons. Yeah, I got, yeah. So that's what I figured out I did that wrong because I didn't double them. Right. That was a rap.

You know what I mean? So I wound up catching another case. So now I got four felonies. You know, it might not sound right right now, but that was really what happened. I wound up getting four felonies. Insane. And then that's what made you go do shock. Right.

And that's when it was like, yo, you know, I was in there. So they didn't let me go after that. And then it was like, yo, you know, I was just trying to get shocked. I was like, yo, look, I got a, I got a, you know, I got to, you know, I kept asking all of the jailhouse lawyers. You think I'm going to get shot? You know, they wind up giving me shot. Yeah. So I had a two to six.

They sentenced me to two to six. Yeah, but you got out? Yeah, I did like 11 months. Okay. You know what I'm saying? All together. I got locked up in April of 96 and I came home in, and damn, I did less than not 11 months. I came home in January, so that's eight months.

Damn, what a good deal. Yeah. Good time to be a drug dealer back. Yeah, that's a fact. If you didn't have 500 keys. Yeah, they was like, you know. We can't take. you today. We're all full. It's like a club.

Yeah, they was like, nah, not today. I was like, not today. Yeah, they sent me home. That was crazy. I came back to my girl. She was like, what happened? I was like, nothing. I beat it, babe. I was like, we made it, babe. So did you come home from shock, like, determine you were like, I'm really going to get on with this rap stuff?

Did it really kind of motivate you to stay out of the streets? Like tell us how you got down with Bad Boy after that and how the rapping progressed. Yeah, well I think it did kind of, it did kind of deter me. You know, when I did come home, I kind of went straight and narrow for about six months, you know. And then I was like, you know, I cracked one sale and then I cracked another one. I said, yeah, I was just back after a while, right? And what really got me, you know, focus was I never forget this.

Every time I see this girl, I call her my hero. Right? What happened was I was on a corner. Again, the same corner. You know, the same dreaded corner that I caught all of these cases on. Did a bid for all of that. So I'm on this corner, you know, makes a sale. You know, the dudes that usually be, you know, up there, they're not there.

So I'm trying to, like, kind of like, okay. Take their business. Yeah, you know, just take, you know, I know I can make sales when they're not around. Like, it's just like, you know, hotcakes. Like, okay, yeah. So I'm up there. I'm like, damn, why they not, you know, up here? You know what I mean?

So, you know, I'm like, yeah. And that's why they weren't up there because they knew, like, the detectives were around. But me, I'm dumb. I don't know. You know, I just wasn't aware of what was going on. I thought it was just, like, free money. You know what I'm like? I'm like, damn.

I'm like, yo, where everybody at? You know? And so, and so I sells our ourselves to undercover, right? And so I'm home. I'm home off the bed. I'm like, so I walks off the corner and they grab me. You know, they jump out the car, grab me. I'm like, oh, my goodness.

All I could think about is the fact that I just did a bid. You know what I mean? So, so I'm walking down the block. I mean, I'm walking like, I'm on the hunt 15th, and I'm walking in the projects down the block, and they jumps out, grab me. And so he has me. He just figures it's done. It's over. You know, he got me by my hoodie.

You know what I mean? He's like talking on walkie talk. He got me with one hand. Like, he don't know. I play Ring of Levia. You know what I mean? Like, I play Manhunt. Like, this is, you know what I said?

Like, this is where we're from, you know what I mean? So he got me kind of relaxed. I don't know if I had a black hoodie on too, right? So he got me You know They out hand him Yeah got them I got them

I got the perp da da da All this shit Bring him one nod You know So I'm like yeah So he's He's bringing me Up the

Back to 115 Like I'm You know So he's like Kind of just leading me And he got like This real light

This light little grip on me Right So I get I get to the middle Of the street Crossing the street And I came out

The whole hoodie Boom boom boom boom So I'm I'm like this, ah, boom. So I'm seeing people on the bus. It was like slow motion, you know what I mean? Because I ran across the street. I'm looking at the people on the bus.

They all like this. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm like, and I jets into projects. I go in the building. And then, you know, back then they just had, you know, installed like the bells on the buzzers on the on the doors. So you had the buzz to get in. And so, but they, you know, if you were strong enough,

If you could pop it, pop, and the door were open. So I knew the building to go to, I ran to it. Pop the door, pop, goes in. It's amazing those projects. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm watching them. I'm watching them. As I'm running, you know, I can see it on the Alcoa seat to the Avenue.

And I see like the van, you know, riding. They're trying to actually follow me, you know what I mean? So they're riding down the wrong side. No, they're riding down the right side of the street. But I see them. So I'm running to the building. You know, I get you in the building, boom. There's no way they could have knew, like, where I went.

You know what I mean? So I went in the building, boom, popped it. They just kind of, like, had an idea of the area I went in the project. So they were, like, kind of circling right there. And so I went in the building, boom, I'm in the, now I'm in the, but you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not out the, out of woods yet, though. When you're in the building, it's not my building. You know, I don't live there, you know? So I'm like, okay, I got to knock on somebody's door because they might come.

come in the building. And then if they comb the building, I'm in there. You know what I'm saying? So I'm in the building. So I'm still breathing hard. I runs up to about the fifth floor. I can't run no more. My knees just gave out.

I'm like, oh, my goodness. I'm like, yo. So now I'm hiding in the hallways, in the apartments, in the hallways. I'm hiding in there. So I'm just knocking on people's door. I can't even breathe. I'm like, knocking on people's door. Nobody's answering.

Knocking on somebody else's door. nobody's answer is not and so I'm like damn and then I look out the exit you go to the exit and look out the window and I see them they outside of the building I'm like oh my goodness I'm going to jail you know what I'm saying because I'm like they all they're going to do is come in the building soon you know what I mean and so I'm like I'm like I'm going to jail and so I'm like yo and then and so I'm like I like I just kind of like didn't know what to do at that point and somebody opened the door bye bye it was a guy and his sister He was leaving. He was like, see you later, mama. And I was like, yo, bro. I said, yo, bro, I say, yo, look, can I stay in your crib real quick? They chasing me.

I said, I give you everything in my pocket. He was like, I bet. Word. And then the girl, it was the girl that actually was like, come on, posse. Because he was like, at first he was like, yo, nah, like, you know what I mean? But she was like, come on.

You know what I mean? And then she let me in. I gave her, like, I had like $100 in my pocket. You know, I gave it to her. I was like, you know, thank you. She was like, yo, she's like, you want some water again? She's in water. I take a t-shirt. I stayed there for about a half hour. Did they knock on the door?

No, they didn't. But I think they were in the building. They think they did figure out to come in the building. And they probably asked a couple people, you seen anybody in them? You know, they was like, you know what I mean? So I stayed in the crib for about a half hour. She went downstairs. She was like, oh, she came back up. She was like, there's nobody now that you could go. I was like, for real, she was like, yeah, there's nobody.

why they out there no more. I was at Old River. So I leave. I was living in an apartment on Brooke Avenue in the Bronx at the time. So I goes like to Madison Avenue somewhere, catch a cab, go home. But then from that point, I was like,

yo, this is over. I was so like, you know, you know, I don't know you can feel where I'm coming from. It was like, yo, I was so grateful that I didn't get locked up that day that I was like, yo, I got to stop. hustling, man. Because I'm about to go to jail again. And it ain't going to be no two to six. Ain't going to be no shock. You know what I'm saying? So I was like, yo, all right. You know,

I kind of just, you know, but I had to make money. So I would just do like small things, make money. And, you know, I really wasn't getting no money at that point, you know. But I was, but I was just like really into hip hop more. You know, I was like, well, look, this is what you want to do. That's kind of why I dropped out of high school. I was like, I mean, out of college, I was like, yo, look, I want to rap. That was the excuse I told my mother. She was like, you want to rap, man. And so, you know, I really got into it.

And I wound up recording the actual song that Black Rob heard that made him get, you know, bring me down to Babbo. Today's episode is brought to you by Cloaked. My sponsor Cloaked dared me to see how exposed my personal information really is. So I entered my phone number on their free security scan, and within seconds, it pulled up my social security number. That was frightening.

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This should be the first thing you do if you're at all exposed or a public person. You got to go to cloak.com. Use that promo code Connect for a free security scan and get 30% off any one of their plans. Privacy isn't dead. It's cloaked. Okay, so tell us what that song was. It was a song called Dollar Bell. I've heard it.

Yeah. That was the song that he was like, yo, it was like my man, my man let him hear it. My man, Pooka proxy. He let him hear it. He was like, yo. How did you meet Rob? Through my bro. My bro, my bro, Puta, Puta.

He knew Rob. I didn't know him, you know. And he was like, yo, the Rob, that's my man, Black girl. You know he just signed a bad boy. I was like, why are you? He said, you probably know him. You probably seen him. I was like, I don't know, man.

And then so I had a demo tape. And, you know, my man Puga-Broxie loved the song, Dollar Bill. So he was like, yo, let me hold that, you know? I was like, you know, I was reluctant. I let him hold it. And just me doing that, that was where the blessing came. Because one day he was with Black Rob, and they were playing it all night, apparently. You know what I mean?

Uh-huh. And so, like, maybe a two days or so later. he comes, runs down to where I'm at, yo, black robbers up the block. He wanted to meet you. He was like, yo, we was playing that dollar bill all night. He's like, that's all he played. That's all he wanted to hear.

I was like, why are he? He was like, yo, he wanted to meet you. So he runs up the block, we meet him. And, you know, I realized that I didn't know him. You know what I mean? You know, because everybody was saying, you know him. You know, this is where he's from?

Is he from Harlem? Yeah, he's from Holland. He's from, like, he lived like, across the street from me. Like literally, I just never seen him before. I just, I probably seen him, but didn't realize it was who he was or, you know, it just didn't register. But when I seen him, you know, I didn't know him. Obviously, I was like, I don't, you know, I didn't know him.

You know, that was my first time meeting him. So it was, you know, it was a good meeting. You know, he was like, yo, he was like, yo, said, yo, that dollar bill, something serious. That's how he used to talk. He's like, you're that smart. He's like, that dollar bill, something serious, man. I was like, well, he was like, yeah. He was like, man, I want you to be.

on my album, I was like, word. He was like, yeah. And he was already signed. Yeah, he was already signed. He already had, I think he might have had I dare you out at that time. That's how I dare you. He had that out. Right.

And, you know, so he was like, yo, I want you on the album. And I kind of really didn't think he was going to call me. You know what I mean? He took my number. And he called me, though. He was like, yo, look, you ready? I was like, hell yeah, you know. And so that was kind of how.

That was how I got on Babel. You know, not not the recording, you know, I mean, I can't say, you know, recording my own stuff didn't get me there because actually it did, you know. But like not me like going to labels and trying to sign and all of that stuff. Like we had did all of that, but we not, you know, we didn't, we weren't successful with it. But doing that, you know, that's how we got on. So you got on a single on his album. Yeah. Were you on other tracks too?

No, I was just on that. Okay. And that's where obviously did he heard it? Yeah, well, what it was was when I recorded it that day, the A&Rs were there. And Hav Pierre was there. And he was like, yo, would you want to sign the bad boy? After I spit the lyric, I mean the verse, they called me in. the room, but it was like, yo, would you want to sign a bad boy?

I was like, let me think about it. $100. $100. Biggest label, biggest hip-off level in the country. What it? Like, I don't know. I said, so I went, so I was like, yeah, you know, I said, yeah, man, I was trying to be smooth about it.

I was like, yeah, why not? You know, and he was like, yo, how could we make that? happen he's asking me how to me i'm like i don't know you know i mean i'm just like you know i said i said i said call my manager my manager you know you could talk to him he said so i just pick my phone up i took my phone out and gave him the phone i called my manager i said yo har pierre want to talk to gave him the phone then they you know they talked and that was that that was that you know we set up everything a little meeting so tell us what that initial was like what a getting signed to a major label like that back in the 90s what do that look

like well i mean they um they the deal was for 70 uh 370 350 or 375 or 375 i think it was 350 though 350 gs yeah that's up front yeah i didn't get i didn't get the whole 350 though i got i got a third of it so i got i got like a buck and change okay you know what i mean for how many albums? It was like for eight albums or something. That's wild. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Was that normal or did they, they must have really believed in you? Yeah, I mean, that was, that was Puffy's, like, kind of standard contract at that time. I mean, from my perspective, I don't know what the guys got before me, you know, because from what I see, you know, I think his contract has got better and better over the years, you know what I mean? Like the new, the earlier artists,

you know, kind of had different situations from what I understand and what I see. But by the time he got to me, you know, I was just, you know, I got, you know, half of my publishing, like, I got a good deal, you know what I'm saying? Wow. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Because that's how a lot of artists got raped back in the day. Yeah, they decided for front money, but gave away all their publishing. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I got, you know, my manager was smart. You know, my manager knew about that stuff. He had dealt with Big Daddy Kane at one point. He, like, managed him.

So he knew, like, what to look for, what to ask for, you know. So when we went and, you know, negotiated with his lawyer, we knew to fight for the publishing. It wasn't even about the money, you know what I mean? So that's, you know, that's how I wind up getting, you know, the 50%. Wow, that's great. What year is that? This is 98.

Okay, so Biggie is debt. Yeah, Biggie Pass. But they're about to sign. Oh, no, I'm sorry. The locks had already been signed. Yeah. Yeah, so they're popping. Yeah, they still was jumping.

They had, they had a little Kim was out. Kim was out. Well, you know, she wasn't really on Bad Boy. She was, like, signed to, like, another means of label. Oh, that's true. Yeah. I think capital or something, like a bigger label. I'm not sure exactly what label, but, you know,

she was just a filial. affiliated with bad boy because of Big E. and things like that. But she was definitely, like, you know, bad boy, you know what I mean? Yeah, part of the family. Like, she was like, you know,

the queen, you know, over there, you know? And so, so, so you had, Mace was still there. Foxy Brown? Foxy Brown, no, she, she was around, but she wasn't signed to Babel. She was, I forgot what label she was on as well. There was so many,

many people. Yeah, she was like in like Jay-Z's. Oh yeah, that's right. Circle like kinda. Okay, so who were the the locks, you, Black Rob, Mace, who else was on there? You had Carl Thomas at the time. Yeah. Shine. Shine. You had shine, you had Total. Total was still there. You had Sherry Dennis, she was still there, Mark Curry. Right. You had the, what was the gospel lady's name? Harry J. Blige? No. But did he discover her? Yeah, yeah.

She used to be around, right? She was around a lot. I'm so upset I can't think of the gospel lady's name, man. Okay, so this is life-changing, obviously. In 1998, you get a nice piece of change, especially back then. But I want to back up because I think the murder had already happened, correct? Yeah. Okay.

So before we move on, can you? Yeah, tell us about what happened that years later you ended up turning yourself in for. Because this actually happened, I think, in like 1994, right? The murder, no, 93. Okay. Yeah. That's wild because this happened, like, before you were getting arrested for selling little drugs. Yeah.

That's why this is so crazy. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It was like somebody who was telling me something. Like, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah.

It's wild. You got pinched for all those little fucking. small cracks and coke and here you had a cold case. Right. What happened with that? You know, and then so, you know, I was young. So, you know, the whole time, I used to always be like, oh, they know, oh, they're coming. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't thinking about that at that time, you know, as far as.

Were you a minor? Well, I was, I had just turned. I was 18. Okay. You know what I mean? I was going to turn 19 the next month. So I wasn't like an actual minor, you know what I mean? So, so, you know, yeah, so like I had, I caught the, I caught the, that, the killing, the shooting had happened.

Because like I said, I didn't, I didn't even know he had died, you know what I mean? I know I shot him. And, you know, so I kind of just went on. Can you talk about the circumstances a little bit, if you don't mind? Yeah, no, I mean. It was a robbery. You know what I mean? You know, I was just like, you know, one of them things I had a gun.

I was just out there, you know, I don't think my decision making was, you know, I know it wasn't at that, you know, in hindsight. You know what I mean? It was just like, yo, let me just rob somebody. You know what I mean? Well, were you trying to get money for what? for what right you know what just to have it yeah you know what I mean it wasn't like I was like y'all yo I need this or I need that you know I was I had you know I stayed with my grandmonds my girl like I had I had somewhere to stay yeah you know it was you know probably it was just it was

just like a spur of the moment kind of thing like you know what I mean and so I you know I thought maybe I was going to you know get a jackpot like you know I mean like he was going to like that's probably wasn't my thinking like he would have just going to have so much money you know what I mean so I so I um you know or whoever I robbed it wasn't like I knew he was going to be there he was just like I said I had a gun I was riding around on a bike you know just looking for him yeah just looking for somebody you know and then he was and he was just standing there this is in your neighborhood yeah where what 115th yeah 10014th in Lexington in Lexington Park. He was like under the trestle under the train thing. He's just standing there. I'm like, here we go.

Right here. This is it. You know, so went up to him. I was like, yo, look, let me give me the money, you know. And, you know, he was now that I know when I said again, like he was high. You know what I mean? So I didn't understand that at the time. Like I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, you're getting, I'm like, yeah, where's the money at, you know? And then, you know, you know, He just like, he just was looking at me, like, you know. So I'm like, I was like, you're where the money at? You know, I said to me? You know, I didn't, you know, he was a man. Like, I didn't want to touch him and all that. You know what I'm saying?

So I'm just like, yo, I'm thinking he'll just, you know, come out of his pocket. But he was so stuck, you know, that he just was like, just looking at me. Like, you know, I didn't even know what to do. You know what I'm saying? So I was just like, yo, I was like, you're weird stuff? And then he tried to like, you know, I just like panic. Like, you know what I'm saying? I just, I shot fire.

I kind of just kind of, in my mind, I was just kind of trying to just like scare him. You know what I mean? But then when I shot him, he didn't like fall, you know what I mean? And then he like kind of tried to come at me again. You know what I mean to laugh. But I, you know, it was like the zombie like movie. Like, you know what I mean? Like you, I don't even want to say no more.

about that. But that was, that was, you know, that was what it was. Like, he just, you know, he just kept coming at, you know what I'm saying? So I just kept fire and I just shot, bow, bah, bah. I'm like, this guy, what is he? Is he real? Like, who is this guy? You know, it's a crackhead strength? Yeah. So then, you know, I started, you know, I just didn't, you know, and, you know, when you, you, when you, you're young, you know, you expect to see blood and, you know what I'm saying? I didn't see nothing. Like, he, like, I was like, even wondering, I had to look at the gun. Like, is this a real gun? Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, damn, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, because at this point, I'm just trying to like stop them. Like, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, so I just, I just ran, I just ran off. Like, you know. What kind of gun was it? It was a 40. 40 cow. Yeah, it was a 40 cow.

That's a pretty big gun, right? Yeah, it was pretty big. The bullets was big. Yeah. Did you see him drop or did you just run off? Yeah, so I ran off. and then when I ran off, you know, like I got on the bike, you know, after, you know, I shot him the third time. I'm like, this guy is just invincible, you know what I mean?

So let me just get out of here, you know what I'm saying? So I just, I went and grabbed the bike if the bike was like right there. So I went and grabbed it. This is all happening like in split seconds. I saw I grabbed the bike and then I jump on the bike and like I'm trying to pedal off and um and like he like swings and like just just miss me boom I remember that like just me pedaling off he missed me boom and that's when he fell you know and then I look back he was on the ground you know but I still didn't think he was like dead for some or I didn't think he was like hurt like for some reason like it was just like I thought I was missing them, you know what I mean? And then so, and so, like, when I rolled off, you know, I look back and then I, you know, I rolled around the block and then I came around again, you know, because I actually wanted to see what the hell happened, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, what did I just do?

You know what I mean? So I come around and then, like, like, like how the project is, like the project goes from like 120. 12th Street to 115th. So I'm on Park. So I come around Park Avenue and I look through the exit and I can look up the block and I see where it happened at and I'm seeing like the cops came immediately. Like I guess they heard the shots and then they just like was coming.

So if I wouldn't have got out of there, I probably would have been still there. You know, so when I comes around the block, I look up the block and they're already there. Like, and I see a cop like kneeling over. him like I guess he was like checking his post and I could see all of this you know this it's like 112 but you can see you know what I mean so I'm just like and I'm looking at and I'm looking at them um you know in front of him and they just on him you know

they're looking around and they just like like got their hand on them and then that was it for me I was like I still got the gun on me I was like oh my goodness and so I just like backed up turned my bike around rode into the building and I never knew what happened that Right. You know what I mean? Did you dump the gun? Yeah, I dumped the gun the next day. You know what I'm saying?

I was like, I don't want this. I don't know what the heck I just, what happened, you know? And it was weird because the next day, when I came out the building, I had the same clothes on, the same jacket, the same bike. The cops, they just, like, just looked at me and just jumped out of their little vehicle, you know. It was like, they grabbed me. It was like, you know about a shooting that happened last night? I was like, nah. I'm talking about if they would have fell my chest,

they would have been like, let's take this guy in. Like, you know what I mean? Because I was like, do you know what I mean? And they're like, you know, do you know anything about that? I was like, nah, I don't know. Why would I know about that, you know? Yeah. And, yeah, so, you know, it was weird.

Like, it was like they just picked me like out of nowhere. Like, you know what I'm saying? And so, you know, that was that. And then like... That was it. You never, they never came around after that for questioning. Yeah, you never questioned me again. But the only thing that I was, you know, I was out there hustling.

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Oh, every time. Every time I got locked up, I was like, oh, my goodness, here we go. Well, what's wild is that, I mean, you must not have left any prints because if you didn't touch him, you didn't leave any DNA. Yeah. Because if you had, they would have ran your prints when you got locked up for drugs and probably connected them. It connected it.

Yeah. So, you know, I didn't have any, I guess I didn't touch the, you know, I guess I loaded the gun, right, you know what I mean? So, you know, I didn't, you know. You didn't get your prints on the shelves. On the shelves and anything, you know, they never, they never, you know, got at me about it. 1993, I think that was the height, or maybe it was 92, is when the murder rate in New York was at the peak. Yeah, it was bad. But there were so many killings like that.

senseless most of them. Yeah, a lot of, yeah, yeah. So you had this secret that, and you just kept living your life. Right. It probably felt like a dream, a bad dream, and, and, but as you got further away from it, you just kind of went to the back of your, back of your mind, right? Yeah, well. Or did it haunt you?

Well, in the beginning, it was more like fear getting caught. Right. You know what I mean? Like, you know, damn, you know, I might have to do time. You know what I'm saying? Like the whole thing of, you know, getting away with something that you know you were gonna do, you would have to do some real time for, you know?

So I was like, wow, you know, damn, you know, that one of those things. I remember when I did the shock program, I was thinking that they were gonna, like we were talking about earlier, they were gonna be like, well, Mr. Coleman, you're not going home, you know what I'm saying? You just get used to, you know, just, you know,

just, you know, just, you know, So when I did a, I did something similar to shock, way less intense, but you have to do all these like meetings. Like you do like, you know, narcotics anonymous and alcoholics anonymous and all this stuff. Did they make, in shock, do they make you like tell on yourself? Do they make you like basically confess to all these things that you've done in your past? Oh. Or ask you to do that? like in front of your peers

as like a way to take accountability? Because that's their whole thing is like, yeah, we take accountability in order to change. Yeah, well, that wasn't really Sharks' theme. Shock was like more like just kind of like a

like a positive reinforcement. You know what I mean? Thing more so like they, they like, it was like more of a conditioning kind of thing. Like they were, we had to run. You know what I'm saying? It was like more.

more like kind of like to clear your mind. So, you know, you wouldn't like be, it was like more, it seemed like it was like more of a person, a place for people that were on drugs in a way. Like, because they were kind of like, you know, run you, you know, feed you so you could get healthy. You know what it was like they were trying to make you like healthier. Like, you know what I mean? And they were, and they were like have you in these like these classes where you were like kind of learn. you know how to out of the positive reinforcement you know just just thinking you know

I mean more so like that was with shock had like these a lot of these acronyms you know what I mean like that was that was more so their thing okay did you tell anybody like any of your friends nah it was certain people that knew about it though that were like out there when it happened and you know they knew you know they came see me like yo damn I was I was You know, I heard about that, you know, or stuff like that, you know what I mean? But I didn't tell anybody. As time went on, I did tell a couple of my friends that, you know, it was, you know, haunting me.

You know, when years, like, I want to say, you know, approaching the time, I was, you know, turn myself in. I told one of my friends, I was like, yo, man, remember that? Remember that thing? You know, people used to always talk about, man. You know, that should be bothering me, man. I might, you know, turn myself in for that, man. But by the time you signed with bad boy, this wasn't haunting you the way it did later on, right? Or was it?

Right, right. When I signed the bad boy, I kind of was at the level, at the point where it was like, okay, move on, you know, kind of, you know what I mean? He's getting further away. Yeah, it was like, okay, you know, if anything did happen, you know, this is, you know, You know, I was more like, yo, you know, if something did happen, you know, this wouldn't be happening. You know what, or just like, you know, kind of overshadowed what happened. It kind of started making me kind of forget in a way. Yeah.

Like, just leave it in the past kind of. For sure. You know, I didn't have to worry about, I think the fact that I didn't have to hustle anymore kind of made me forget about it. And I didn't have to, you know, worry about police contact and stuff like that. So I was like, I didn't think about it too much. Yeah, like I'm out of the streets. Yeah, I'm kind of out of the woods, so, so to speak. So, you know, but, you know, like you said, like you never really, you know, you never get away with, you know, something.

Because it's like after a while, you know, then I have more time to think about it. You know what I mean? So I was like, you know, I was like, yo, you know, I started really, you know, then once I start having kids. You know, I started kind of weighing things a little bit more. I'm like, damn, you know, what if he had kids? You know what if, you know, what if, you know, like, you know, I was living just life that was, to me, was, you know, pretty good, you know. So it was like, yo, you know, Christmases will come around. You know, everything was, you know, so beautiful, you know, decked out.

We got the tree. The kids running around. You know, everything. And I started kind of like, yo, what about this guy? Like, what did he have? Do he have kids? You know, I'm pretty sure his family would like him to be at the house. You know what I'm saying?

So it was like, it just started becoming like a, you know, kind of like a just a, just, just like I was a comparison with everything that I did, you know? Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. So he kept showing up in your mind throughout your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, you know, like I said, like it was like kind of just like a contrast.

Like, you know, anything that I did, you know, even when I laughed sometime, you know, my mom would be like, do you think he's laughing right now? Okay, so before we move on, let's talk about the bad boy years. So you signed in 98. When did you drop your first album with Bad Boy? The first album was in, I want to say, 2001. Okay. And was that your big single was a special delivery, right?

That was the first big one? Yeah. The first, no, the first big one was, let's get it. Right. With Diddy? Yeah, with Puffy and Black Rock. And then they had the, you know, they had the Harlem Shake. That was huge.

Yeah, yeah. So that's what kind of sent that to the moon. You know what I'm saying? Like the kids in it and like that's, you know, it was already a popular kind of dancing in like the culture. You know what I'm saying? So when they put it in the video, that was it. Forget it.

That was that ruled hip-hop culture. Yeah, at one point, man. I'm not going to lie. That shake, man, you know. I might have tried to Harlem shake. I mean, everybody. I mean, white kids in the suburbs, college kids. Yeah, I know it was definitely a thing.

I still don't know how to do it. I try, you know what I mean? I just can't get my body to do it. Grown people should do it. It's for children. Yeah, it is. It's silly in hindsight. But it was a real, like, Harlem staple.

It was a New York thing. I mean, people still, like, I'm like, it's actually a real part of the culture, man. You know what I'm saying? Like, people, like, kind of still associate that with, you know, just music and, you know what I mean? Like, you know, it just caught on and, like, clamped on, you know what I mean? Because the video, the music video was so powerful at this time. Yeah, yeah.

And that video was just everywhere. Yeah, man, they did that, they did that, man. Puffy, like, you know, the visual of it, the way, you know, with the Fendi outfits, the Fendi matched, the set, the set. set and you know they did that man so you know did puffy have his hands on those details like of the music videos too like was he always did he always have input because he has so many things going on um or did he just have other people other workers doing that well um I'm not all the way sure like I know I know they were always talk about like yo we just we sat around and we did the treatment for the video you know you should have been

present for it you know we did it you know we came up with a treatment you know so stuff like that so i'm not sure how much you know input he had into it because like he had um he had like uh you know big big uh directors doing the videos you know what i mean so a lot of the vision came from them too right so i'm not sure if like uh because little x did that video so i think that might have been like you know that seemed like something that he would think of because like that was the kind of videos he was making. He was making like these groundbreaking videos at the time. So I don't know who, you know, I know I can, even without me actually knowing, I can

probably say that I could say that Puff probably has something to do with the fashion part of it. Right. You know what I mean? Like, yo, we should be wearing black and white. That's where the Fendi, you know, I'm gonna do, you know what I'm saying? Stuff like that. He was a genius marketer. Yeah.

He just knew about marketing. He knew what was hot, what was going to catch. Right, right. He definitely, definitely knew, like, what, like you said, like, what was going to catch people's eyes. Like, you know, he was good at making, like, gimmicks when it came to, you know, marketing, you know what I mean? For sure.

For sure. Yeah. What was your relationship with him? Oh, he was cool, man. You know, he was, you know, he was definitely somebody that, you know, came from where I came from. but just, you know, made it, you know what I mean? He was the first example that I got to look at, that, you know, somebody that looked like me that was, you know, successful, you know what I mean? But, you know, legally, you know what I mean?

You know, I mean, I had, you know, a couple of good, good examples of, you know, of people coming up. I can't say I didn't see successful black people, you know, or, you know, just success coming up, period. You know, but me running into him, you know, we had a lot of similarities. We were both Scorpio's, you know, both from Harlem, you know what I mean? So it kind of made it seem attainable. Like I'm like, wow, maybe I can't, you know, it was a big motivated factor, you know, dealing, you know, meeting them, you know.

So I was, I always respected him just for that. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then he never showed me anything otherwise, you know? That was just my impression of him and that stayed my impression of him, you know? Did he, and he respected your rap. Like, he obviously thought you were talented. Yeah, yeah, he definitely used to tell me that, like, oh, that man, you know.

He was definitely peculiar, particular. You know, he wanted to say a thing, you know, he wasn't scared to be like, he wasn't a yes, man. Like, everything was hot. Yeah, yo, yo, that's fine. he would be like, nah, you know, go, you know, go back and do that over. Really? Yeah. Would he be in sessions with you?

Yeah. Sometimes. Sometimes he'll be, you know, he'll listen to stuff and be like, nah. Or, you know, more so when he was doing stuff for himself, you know, he would, you know, be hands-on sitting there. You know, you would, you, you, you record the stuff, and, you know, he'll let you know if he wants it or not. or change this through that, you know, things like that. When it came to my, my project, we kind of just did it. And then we kind of like had to, you know, let him, you know, okay to stuff.

You know what I mean? Me and Hoff, half Pierre, Bobby Springsteen, you know, Conrad. You know, those are kind of like the, you know, the main people that we just put the music together. Were those the beat bankers or the A&O? No, those are like the A&O. Okay. Yeah. Who were some of the notable producers, beat makers on your albums?

On the album? I mean, we had like Ron Lawrence. Ron Lawrence did a couple of beats on it. He did every day. He had a Yogi. Yogi did a Let's Get It, that Easy LP on there. He did a special delivery. Yeah, Chuckie Thompson.

You know, dudes, dudes was, you know, at the time, those guys, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, I got a lot of, you know, I had a lot of stuff played over by, you know, Marion Winans. You know, Marianne's did a lot of the, you know, like the overdubs on a lot of the music. You know, if I go down the line, you know, Jeter. Al Jeter, you know, dudes, dudes that were kind of like underground, but just, you know, had that, you know, that heat. Yeah.

You know, they were on the album, you know. You were definitely one of his, like, hip-hop guys because he had the gospel and the pop guys. You fell into, like, yeah, more of, like the underground, like, spitters. Yeah, yeah, I guess so, yeah. You're a real spitter, you know. I appreciate it, yeah. You know, I think that's, that was one of the factors, too. Like, you know, when I got signed, I wasn't like, you know, fresh, you know, just right off the street, actually, because I had just did a, I had got on Gangstar's album before that.

Really? Yeah. Which, you know, that's what a, you know. Which album? Moment of Truth? Yeah, I was on The Moment of Truth album. That's one of my favorite hip-hop albums of all time. What track?

Yeah, I'm on the mall. Oh, yeah. Okay, I'm going to go listen to that after this interview. Right. So that was kind of how I think it kind of weighed in when they said they were going to sign. Right. I didn't, you know, at first I was thinking, yo, the rhyme was so dope. You know, it was just kind of coupled with everything.

You know what I mean? When they knew that it was, ain't that the kid that's on the gangstar joint? You know what I mean? So they was like, yeah, it was sign him, you know what I mean? So that was probably why I got signs as well, you know what I mean? You know. And were you going on tour? Well, not really.

I just went, you know, he was, he was signing, he was, he was doing his album when we first signed. He was doing forever. Right. So we wound up going to the Bahamas. And we, you know, just was there. We was kind of like, you know, his writing team. And so that was my first experience with, you know,

dealing with him and writing. in writing and you know the way he operated and stuff like that so you were helping write yeah yeah you know that's how we do he was like a camp you know we would he would go on these retreats and be like yo look i want you know we would go gather together in the studio he was like yo for this song he'll just talk first yo look you know we're trying to do you know the sound we look for we try to you know you know you already know bad boy you know we you know we you know we just We pride ourselves in quality, good music, da-da-da. You know, this is what we're trying to do, da-da-da.

And then he would like take each artist, you know, I need you to write this, I need you to write this, I need you to write this, you know? And so like, you know, that was the first thing I got, you know, the first time I got there, you know, the first experience with writing, he was like, yo, I need you to write this. You know what I mean?

And he would just pass right there, boom, wow. You know what I'm saying? Like, we just like, damn, you know, he was like, You know, he would pay you before you did it. He would just be like, yo, here, write that, you know? So, you know, you would just be looking at the money writing, man. I can do this. Yeah, I can do this.

It's just possible, you know what I mean? What would you throw, like a couple of G's? Yeah, he was doing like three grand, you know what I mean, for writing. For a verse? Yeah, for a verse. Like, I remember one time I was in there, the first time, you know, he gave, he gave, he gave dudes. Well, this really did with me. me when we first got to the Bahamas he gave me three grand he was like yo I'm gonna need

you to write something just you know get to the studio tomorrow you know but this is for you know this is just for the first songs you're gonna do something while you're now you know what me so I was like bet so I go to the studio the next day I write it that night it gives me the song the the CD that night I write it that night then I go in the studio and I'm spitting it the next day, right? So I'm sitting there, I'm standing there, I'm on the mic, I'm rhyming, I'm doing the rhyme, because you know, that's how he do.

You spit it as a reference, and then you give the engineer the lyrics, so he'll have the lyrics and listen to it, and then he'll know how to say it, and then, like, do you know what I mean? And so I'm standing there right, I'm saying the rhyme, so I hit me in my chest, boom!

I look on the floor, it's another 3,000. I said, oh, this is real. He threw another stack at me So, you know, I wound up doing like four joints I came home like 10 grand And all your lyrics made it On to the Forever album Nah, he didn't use a lot of it

He just used, he used one of them He used, he might have used two Like he might have used like the rhyme to one of them But one I wrote him like a whole song He used that Which one? His joint called Pain It's on the Forever album

Okay It's um it's to that, it's to that, boom, boom, boom, boom, do-dum. It's the mob debuts the beat, too. It'd be like, boom. I want to pull it up on Spotify, but we can't for the copyright. I'm going to go listen to it. I'm sure I've heard it.

You know, it's been so long, but I know I've heard it. Yeah, it was a good joint on there. You know, I wanted, I was wishing he didn't use it. It was so fire. I was like, damn. You wanted it for yourself. Hell yeah. I was like, yo, this is perfect for my, like,

First joint, you know, like, people didn't know about me at that point, you know, I was, you know, as far as bad boy, you know what I mean? So, you know, I was like, damn, if I could use this? Because, you know, I'm coming from, you know, I'm still, even though I did the gangstar thing, you know, I had never rhymed off of these, like, industry real beats. You know what I mean? Like, me and my man, we was making beats, but it's not the same. It's not the same, like, the quality, you know, these dudes is EQ and stuff on a high level. Everything sounds crazy, you know what I mean? So, like, you know, I had never really, you know, getting into industry,

I saw the difference between what I was rhyming over, you know. So these are quality beats, great samples. Everything is just crispy, immaculent, and I'm just going in. And I'm like, damn, if I could use this for myself, I wrote that form, I wrote another song called She Shot Me Down, you know, but that what made it. Wow. That's amazing. So that was your, that was the beginning of about.

bad boy before your albums even released. Yeah. Okay. So you think the height was, you know, the early 2000s, that was when the music videos were popping. Did you go on your own tour? Or did you go on like a bad boy tour? Yeah, when the album was dropping, we went on like a promo.

I had to do a promo tour. Okay. Did you like, it was small? Did you like doing live shows? Yeah, not really, though. Really? I mean, I, like, no. Don't get me wrong.

I'm mixing up the promo in live shows. Because when we did the promo, it wasn't really shows. It was kind of just like we had to be at every radio station on the eastern coast like that.

It was like super tedious. You know what I'm saying? And then, you know, I wasn't prepared. I didn't know what that entail. You know what I mean? So I'm smoking wild weed. I'm high.

I'm not rested. You know what I mean? Like they call me, you damn. saying like you know and I'm like in the hotels just like out of it you know I'm seeing so like you know that was kind of like a whole thing for me you know what I'm saying so but you know I learned a lot you know I learned that you got to do that kind of stuff you know but that was to the extent of touring that I did you know what I mean like just the promo stuff wow because that's today

if you're an artist you got to be on the road yeah that's how you're making your money It's a fact. Like, you know, and like, I just didn't think I needed to do that. Yeah. You know what I mean? Totally different time.

Yeah, hell, yeah. So at this time, you said you started getting into PCP to relax. Yeah. How do you relax off PCP? I thought that made you run around and go crazy.

Well, yeah. Get naked in the middle of the intersection. Yeah, exactly. A lot of people, a lot of people felt that way or feel that way, but, you know, well, it to relax for me. It was just to check out. I knew PCP would make you not, you're not thinking

about nothing. You know what I mean? It ain't like, you know, I was trying to, you know, forget about stuff. You know what I mean? So you were still thinking about the murder? Yeah, yeah, at that time. Even when bad boy is popping and. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, at, you know, I should get my album dropped, you know, I got a little bit of notoriety to the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, just the whirlwind of just, you know, having to be everywhere that was doing probably four shows a week, you know what I mean? Like, you was just, let's get it, let's get it, let's get it, let's get it, let's get, you know.

And so, you know, when kind of, you know, the next year came around and it was time to record the new album, you know, I was kind of, you know, that's when I started like, kind of like, you know, I don't know, I just kind of like got on a, you know, a reflective mode, like, You know what I mean? And I was like, I started thinking about that crime a lot more. You know what I mean? And I was like, yo, you know, this is the only thing I think that would check me out. You know what I mean?

Like whatever problems I had, that was what I needed to check me out. And it was wild because, like, I want to say when I first signed in like 98, my friends, a couple of guys that I knew, like, you know, they were putting the dust to the PCP in their weed. and they were ride. I never forget they were in my back seat. I'm riding. I just bought the new Volvo. I'm riding around.

I got them in the back seat, right? And they, you know, and they like, and they put in the dust in the weed, right? And I'm like, yo, y'all putting dust in the weed. I'm like, yo, y'all bug it, man. I was like, yo, I said, yo, you know what's going to happen? I said, y'all going to stop smoking that with the weed

and just be smoking and by yourselves in a minute. That shit is just crazy. Y'all losing your mind smoking that shit. That shit is crazy. I said, get that. I said, don't even like that in hair. You can't be serious, right? So years later, four years later, this isn't just my thing.

Fully on dust. Like, you know what I mean? Fully on goal with dust, right? So, so I said, yo, you know, that was just, I don't know what that was. That was just like, I don't know. But anyway, so, you know, I just, that's when I started smoking it. At first, I was smoking it with a weed, you know. But it was doing it was making me

It was doing something to me It was like making me trip But like also paranoid You know what I mean? So it was like I had to stop smoking it with weed So I started smoking it by us by I said What would have happened if I smoke it by itself then

And that was it I was off through the road I said this is what I was looking for That was your drug of choice Yeah I said yep You know what I said yeah I could check right out with this And could you function on it? Well, not at the time.

You know what I mean? It was like one of them things, but you smoke it and you just stuck for a second. You know what I mean? But then after that, you know, then I started taking like vitamins with it. You know what I mean? So like it wasn't a, like, I don't know. I don't know. You know, I don't know, I praise the creator like that it didn't just drive me nuts.

You know what I did to other people. Yeah. But, you know, the way I was using it, that's how I was using it. Like, anytime I smoked it, I would, like, pop. vitamins and then use it right you know what I mean and then you know I was still you know still was you know debilitated no but I think that kind of helped you know keep me like kind of keep you from fully yeah fully just gone because if that stuff builds up in your spine and in your body like I think that's where the damage comes from like when you keep when you have it

in your in your system and not cleaning out you know what I mean And I was also jogging that, you know, I stayed healthy, you know, kind of not healthy. But, you know, I also had this habit of steaming out that I had while I was on the bad boy run. I had this thing I used to do. And, you know, that's why, you know, you can never say you would go back and do things over. And, like, if you could do. Because all of this stuff taught me. And it kind of showed me, you know, if I wouldn't have done these things that I, you know,

I might not have been the same. Because coming from shock, you know, taught me to jog. You know what I mean? So when I came home, I was a jogger. I was that guy running down the street in traffic and, you know what I mean? Running around Central Park, you know what I mean? So when I got on Bad Boy, I was still, you know, accustomed to going in, you know, getting in the shower with the steam.

I would like jogging place for two, three hours in there sometime, you know what I mean? You know, so I was I was already used to like cleaning myself out. So even with even when I was smoking dust, like days when I, you know, I still had a regimen. You know, I would go run, you know, plus I was popping vitamins. So, you know, I can't say it wasn't affecting me, but, you know, I still, you know, I think that's what helped me. You know what I'm saying? That's fascinating. I've never heard of a functioning dust set.

A functioning dust set. Wow. Word. I didn't even know you could buy dust. Like, where would you, were cats selling it still in 2000? Yeah, hell yeah. It was a thing. Like, you know what I mean?

You were like spots in New York? Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Like, heavy. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know, I don't know, like, what's up with it now. But at that time, like, that's just, like, super.

Like, you know, you had, and dudes was actually, you know, going, you know, going up top with it. It was getting a lot of money with it. Yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? Hell yeah. For sure. You know, and they was getting, they was definitely getting in my. money you know what I mean yeah whatever it was that I was like oh word is over

there you know how much were you spending not a lot I mean I would I would buy like you know I was one of them dudes that would smoke two bags put it in you know put it in one blunt smoking I was I'm good for the day you know you know if I was feeling crazy I would do that again at the night you know what I mean but that was to the extent of it I got I couldn't smoke no more than that you know I mean you know I was smoke probably two or three bags a day, you know. But then after a while, you know, it became, when I, you know, when the money, you know,

becomes less and less, it starts to become, you know, you start to start look, you start looking crazy out there, you know what I mean? So that was, that was where that, you know. Could they tell? Could, could people at Bad Boy tell that you were kind of losing it? Well, yeah, I mean, bad boy, you know, I really didn't go through, like, you know, I was still kind of up when I was on dust and bad boy. Right.

Were you just using PCP or were you also like getting into Coke? Because I know you went to Puffy's parties. Yeah. Like so were you like, were you doing uppers too? Oh, nah. Nah, I would, when we were going to like Puff parties, like, you know, we were, we were going to the joints. Like, when we were going like the Miami, he was throwing big parties and, you know,

we would just, we would have to go because we were a bad boy, you know what? So it was like you, you know, you had to pop out. You know, everybody was there. So anybody want to talk about they didn't go to a ditty party. You were there, man. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, it was a ditty party. It was just like a party that he probably threw.

You know what I mean? So it was like it wasn't no secret rooms and all that crazy shit. It was just like, you know, just a big venue and, you know, fire breathing people in cages and all types of, you know, people juggling fire and all the, like, parties was crazy. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, like, so, you know, you just wanted to be at these spots, you know what I mean?

And you're kind of, you're like the end crowd. Yeah. One of the cool guys. Yeah, yeah, basically, you know what I'm saying? You're the cool kid, you know what I'm saying, on campus. And then, you know, so we'd air, you know, we would show up and break out,

go back to the hotel, you know what I mean. It was fun, though. Yeah, it sounds like fun. Yeah, super fun. You know, you go there, you know, you mingle, you know, do what you do. you might get out of there with somebody, stuff like that, regular party stuff. Were you drinking?

Not really. You know what I'm saying? At that time, well, yeah, no, excuse me. At that time, you know, I wasn't really into the dust, you know, at that time. You know what I mean? Like I said, like I was, you know, when I got into the dust, I want to say where to where it was like a problem, like not a problem to where it was an addiction, addiction to where it was my thing. Because when I started smoking dust.

dust, really? Like, I couldn't even smoke weed anymore. Like, I stopped smoking weed. You know what I mean? So, you know, this was, when I was on bad boy and I was dealing with dust, like, I was still smoking weed. You know what I mean? Like, weed was my thing, you know what I mean?

But the dust, I didn't know what was happening to me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was smoking the dust and, you know, I was having, you know, I used to get like super hostile and like, you know what I'm saying? and just, you know, just be talking to people all crazy. You know, I didn't know that was why, though, you know what I mean? So I was going through that at that time, you know what I'm saying?

You know, but, you know, they just thought I was, you know, just like, you know, whatever I was doing, I was doing to excess, you know what I'm saying? So they spoke to me about it, you know, a couple of times. Yeah, you need to go to a rehab, that, you know, because, like, it was going. Bad Boy, people at Bad Boy did. Yeah, this was like 203. Okay. You know, they was like, what are we doing? You know what I mean?

You know, then after a while, you know, that's when it became to be a problem. Like, you know what I'm saying? Maybe like about, you know, you know, now I'm trying to put together this next album. And, you know, they're not feeling, you know, my vibe. You know what I mean? So that was, that was how I got dropped. You know what I mean? They was like, yo, look, get yourself together.

You know what I mean? What are we doing? You couldn't even finish the album. Yeah. Like, you know, I was coming down, I was making these just wacky songs. Like, they was like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I couldn't even really, like, write the way I used to. Like, it was a whole different, you know, I just, I just just write, you know, so, you know, the thing about dust is kind of like, it's kind of like a mind.

It's like an experiment. Like, it's the illest way you can experiment. I think maybe all drugs is like that it's like how people experiment with like the shrooms and you ever seen it's like that

like you could kind of you know like I noticed that I was just kind of just like like kind of experiment and with my mind when it came to that stuff like I would like

think of certain things and like I knew how to you know height in my mind to a certain point where I could see certain things and think about certain things so I was kind of

kind of like, you know, that was what my thing was. Like, I was kind of experimenting, you know what I mean? But people ain't have time for that, you know what I'm saying? Like, these dudes got business. Right. You got to get it out. Yeah, this is a business. You know what I'm saying?

I'm over here experimenting, doing these mind experimentations and, you know what I'm saying? You know, you know, get heightened, you know, I feel like I'm, you know, vibrating at a higher frequency because I'm thinking these certain ways and doing, reading these certain things. But nobody ain't got a time for that, bro. Like, we whiz the album. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, you know, that's when they were like,

yo, look, you know, even, you know, get on, you know, shit or get off the pot, you know what I'm saying? So that was how to happen. You know, dudes was like, yo, when you ready, you know where bad boys at, bro. You know what I'm saying? And that was, you know,

I wind up getting dropped. So did you get more, so how many albums had you done before you got dropped? You had an eight album deal? Yeah. I did like an album and like a half. Well, I did, you could say I did two albums. But like I said, the songs weren't, you know, I never heard them again.

You know what I mean? They weren't something that you would. It was one song, a couple of songs that were, you know, decent enough to put out. But, you know, I never really heard them again. You know what I'm saying? Did you speak to Puff after that? Not really. Like, after like 2004.

You know, I kind of did my own thing. Like, you know what I mean? I figured out, you know, mixed tapes were a big deal. Yeah. You know what I mean? I figured out that you can, you know, you can basically, you know, make a lot, you know, make good money. Selling your mixtapes. I started putting mixtapes together.

Then I was getting shows still, you know, my space had just came out. So I realized, you know, people, once I put my profile up, you know, people will contact me, yo, we need you out here, all this. So I was eating. like that. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you make money

in the mixtape era? Yeah, the mixtape era, I was selling my mixtapes and I was doing shows. That was how I was here. Okay. Then the publishing started kicking. Started kicking in.

Oh, so you get royalties from the hits. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, you know, so I was kind of just at that stage, that was my thing. You know, I wasn't dealing with Puffy or anybody. But you know, but you still have black rob. That was my main.

that was still on bad boy. So that was kind of, you know, like my connection to them still, you know what I mean? I would send them, you know, send a little, you'll tell Puff, I said, what up? You know what I mean? Stuff like that, you know, like that. But, you know, nothing really, nothing really came about any, you know, as far as like revamping my project until about 2000, I want to say, eight. What happened then?

You know, he needed some writing done and they contacted me. So, you know, I started writing for Buff? Yeah. For what? What album? He wrote, I think he wanted something for the last train of Paris. You know, first they contacted me to do, I think this might have been like, oh, nine, because it was a little close to me turning myself.

And they contacted me to do, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Justin was turned, his son was turning, in 16. So he wanted me to perform. He had a bunch of performers that was going to perform at this club called Exit. And that was the day he gave, he gave, he gave Justin a white phantom. He had, the phantom was in the, when you come to the venue, you see the phantom. It's like behind the red ropes. You know, it's in the venue. You don't know what it is. You just think, you know, he's just trying to make the place look good, you know what I'm saying? But turns out it was, it was, it was, it was Justin's present. You know what I'm saying?

So we're all in there, you know, I saw I want to perform it. I was there fabulous, Nicky Menards. It was a lot of people there that day performing, you know, for, so that was like kind of the first time I got back up with Bad Boy, you know what I mean? And then like, like years, I mean, excuse me, then a couple of months later in the fall, he called me to write for the album. And I wanted to write for the last train of Paris album. me and stuff like that.

So it's not like you just fell off the map and just became a junkie. Like you were still putting out music, making money, touring, but the whole time you're using. Yeah. And then also what I was going through was kind of stopping me. You know what I mean? Because I felt like, I remember feeling like,

I felt like I couldn't move on. You know what I mean? Like I felt like, okay, what do you think you should just stop smoking, and then it's going to be over, and then you're going to move on, no. You know what I mean? The demons are going to come back.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it was like, you know, I felt like I couldn't stop doing what I was doing. You know what I mean? Like, so it was like, you know, it was definitely one of those things, man, where it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, I was bound to, to what I had going on.

You know what I mean? I didn't see no way, no way out of that. You know what I mean? Like I said, I couldn't even allow myself to move on. And you had a family at this point. Right. You have kids? Yeah, I had kids, yeah.

Did you tell your wife what you were going through? Yeah, I did. I did, actually. I told her, I said, you know, I told her, I said, look, I did something when I was younger, you know. This was my wife. At the time, my daughter's mother, you know, she knew about it kind of. Well, she didn't know about it. We were together when it happened.

So she didn't like know, but she, you know, she was like, look, you know, whatever you happen that night, like, you know, we never even talked about it, you know what I mean? But my years later, I got married to a woman and she didn't know anything about it. none of that stuff, you know what I mean? She was like kind of, you know, from a different place. She came from Florida, you know, so she was like, you know, she knew about New York life, but, you know, it was no need for me to talk about all of that stuff, you know. So, but one day, one day I told her, I said, I said, love, you know, I did something

when I was younger, man, you know, starting to bother me, you know. Sometimes I think about turning myself in for it. She was like, she was like, but what about your sons? and, you know, stuff, that was her thing. You know, you're gonna just leave us? And, like, you know, that was a long time ago, you know, stuff like that, you know. So that was to the extent of it, you know, I told about it.

Wow, that's so fascinating. You felt like you couldn't move on. You're trapped smoking PCP to block out the guilt and the demons. Right. So then you become, you become just like, you feel like you, okay, this is what you do to keep your life at this bottom level. I was just like, you know what I mean?

So if you stop this, you know, that's how the mind, that's how my mind just tricked me. Like, you know what I mean? It was like, you stop smoking this. You're basically going to die. You know what I mean? How so? Did you ever try to live with what you had done without drugs?

No. And I think that was the fear that I was scared. You know, that was what? you know, I associated with me stopping it, that I was gonna die, so to speak. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was the fear of living without it. Like, I didn't know how I would do that at this point.

As I've traversed this whole thing so much. And like, I understand what I've done at this point, you know, so for me to pedal back and be like, okay, now I'm gonna forget it. I wonder if you had gone to a therapist and talked it out and just been like, hey, there's this thing that's weighing on my mind. Maybe they would have told you to turn yourself in. But I'm curious to, you know, who knows now, right, if you had really just got off a PCP and started to talk through what you had done. Right, but I still think it all ended up on me.

It all would have ended up, you know, with me going to jail. Because even if you confess, you know, like to a priest, I suppose I said this to somebody else too. Like, even if you confess to a priest about a murder, the priest is not going to say, you know, hell, merry, grace, you know, go your way, son. Now he's going to say, you got to take yourself in. Really? Yeah, they're not, you know, especially when it comes to, like, murder, you know, they're not going to tell you, don't worry about it.

You know what I'm saying? They, you know, pray, you know, just, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, You know, because it's an actual person that, you know, died. Like, you know, they can't, they can't tell on you. Right. But I think they would, you know, they would encourage you to turn yourself in. This is how you can be saved. Yeah.

Is by repenting. Yeah. Yeah. By facing justice. Are you a religious man? Did you grow up religious, believing in God? Yeah, I grew up, you know, my, my family, my grandmother. She used to, you know, we used to go to church.

You know what I mean? We would definitely go to church every Sunday. Did you worry about going to hell? That was the thing, as a Catholic you were taught, one of the first commandments is, thou shalt not kill. So I was always, I'm so paranoid even to this day about going to hell if that exists.

Right. And this is why I just can't live with doing that. I got you. Did you feel that way? Or did you think about the afterlife? Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I felt like, I thought about it more so like in an eternal sort of way. You know what I mean?

I felt like my way of thinking and understanding was like, you know, our eternal souls have to always, or always, you know, present, if not in this life or in this body, you know, eternally. So like anything that's on your soul is on your soul, you know what I mean? So that was how I looked at things. It was like, okay, this is never going to be something that it's just going to be like, yo, you know, you didn't, you know, it never happened. You know what I'm saying? So I just felt like I had to do something that, you know, to at least try to write it, you know.

Do you remember the day that you decided that you were going to turn yourself in? It was just one day that it really dawned on me. I was like, well, if I turn myself in, this might, you know, that might be the solution. Like, you know how, you know, because I was, I was, like, kind of just going through the motions of it, like, all every day, you know what I mean? And then one day it just dawned on me. I was like, and it made me feel good.

Like, it made me, like, the weight was lifted. I was like, yo, if I turn myself in, this should be over. You know what I'm saying? It's like freedom. Yeah. Even though you're going to go away and be incarcerated, you'll be free. Hell yeah. It just dawned on me.

I was like, oh, but I still took me away. I think that's when I started asking people. I was like, yo, what's your thing about me? You know, I turn myself in it? You think that would be like crazy? Like, you know what I'm saying? People were like, yes. You bugging.

Yes, it would be very great. That's when I read that in the magazine and source, I was like, this motherfucker's tripping. Yeah, that's a fact. You know, everybody felt that way. I mean, but I, but the only thing that I felt would be able to free me from that, you know what I'm saying? You know, I didn't know the guy. I couldn't go talk to his parents and say sorry or whatever, you know what I mean? So I said, look, if I tell myself, Ben, you know, the feeling that I got behind that was all I needed.

I was like, damn. I was like, yo. And, you know, that was when I seriously started thinking about it, you know what I mean? Yeah. How long after you had that realization? And did you then go, finally go to the precinct? I would say like, I would say maybe that ended that year. I think it might have been in the beginning in 2010. I remember I was at my daughter's mother's house. I was in the Bronx. Just sitting there and it came to my head, you know.

And then later on that year is when I turned myself in. It was probably about six or seven months later. Do you remember the date? That I turned myself there. I think it was like December 17th or 16. It was a little bit before Christmas. Wow. Yeah. I had just dropped an album on this album called Ghetto Legend and I had signed to this small label in Florida and he kind of gave me all creative control. It was a

dope little deal. It wasn't no money involved really like up front like he didn't have no advance money from me but he was a good dude, you know good good good guy. He had a good situation for me dude named Jeffrey Collins He had a label named Famous Records. And he was like, yo, he was like, yo, you know, just put the album together and do the artwork. But I put it out. He had a deal with Universal, Digital.

So I was like, bad, it sounded like a good idea. You know what I mean? Then he had like a good network up here. He's down in Florida getting me like a little showcase, like, you know what I mean? venues to showcase the album and all that. So he definitely had a little pool, you know, little footing up here. So I said, bet, you know. So that was one of the things that I was like, damn, I don't want to go through this, you know, putting out this album and go through this that I went through with Bad Boy.

You know, having this on my mind and, you know, him stressing out and going all of that stuff all over again. So I said, you know what? I'm going to turn myself in and see. what's happening, get this all out the way. If nothing happened, I'm free to go. I'm good. I won't think about this no more. You know what I mean?

So I said, that was what kind of drove me to the album. You know, and it just reminded me too much a bad boy. I was like, this just remind me at that time all over again. You know what I mean? So I was like, you know what? Let me go down to the, before this album really drops, let me go now to the precinct. see if you know what happened to this guy yeah if nothing happened fine if so then you know so

be it you know so I went down there did you get your affairs in order like did you let your family know like hey nah which I should have like it was it was nah I should have did that I should like you know I mean I don't know what I really could have got in order like I couldn't probably I mean the only thing only thing I would have really got in order was like you know where my publishing checks were coming and stuff like that but they were already coming yeah to certain people and certain addresses right i didn't even have to worry about that i was i was getting you know i was paying my my child my my wife she got upset with me you know what i mean at a certain point because i was going back and forth between you know her and my sons and my daughter's mother you know you know i was young

You know, I didn't really know how to deal with having two baby mothers. So I, you know, I was, like, kind of just going back and forth between them. You know what I mean? And one day I went to see my son, my daughter's mother, and I'm married to this woman now, you know? Yeah. And I leave for like two weeks. You know, I'm with them down south somewhere. And when I come home, she's like, yo, you just think you could just leave.

Eve for two weeks, and I know where you at, and she's like, I'm putting you on child support. And this is my wife. Like, we still, like, living together, you know what I mean? But, you know, I dug it, though. I was like, I deserve that. You know what I mean? She was like, yo, look, I'm taking you to child support. You're like, two weeks, watch this.

15 of life. Oh, two weeks, you thought that was alive. I think we figured out why you actually turned yourself in. You're tired of the baby mama drama. Worried up, right? You know, sometimes I think about that. Like, you, I think I just was stressed, but, but not, seriously, though, so I, so, so, you know, she was, she was doing that, I was, she was getting the child support, the checks

that were coming for the big royalties. She started getting those twice a year. I was kind of fine with that, you know, because I was, you know, I was making money. That was just, like, extra money that I would get every two, twice a year, you know what I mean? and, you know, it felt better that my kids got it anyway. You know what I mean? So I was like, bet, you know? So I didn't have to worry about, you know, them not, you know, having money when I got locked up.

And then, you know, my son, my daughter, I had the other ass cap going to her house. So you felt like everybody was good. Now could be the time for me to turn myself in. Yeah, it was kind of like, you know, I didn't feel like, you know, I would have been, you know, to, you know, I would, I wouldn't not be contributing. You know what I mean? So I meant like when I said fair is in order, did you say goodbye? Oh, nah. No, I didn't, though. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, like, like, it just, it just so happens. Like, one day I did a, I did a, I did a, like a kind of like an interview. It was like a, it was like a freestyle in a cab. And after I got out to cab, I was like, I said, this is the day I'm going to do this. Where it was nighttime, I never forget, I got out. You know, I'm not going to, you know, go any longer like this.

You know what I mean? So I had, and then I had already previously, like maybe about a week or maybe about a month before that, I went into the priest and told them. I said, yo, look, I did something in a few years back in 93, because of such, they were like, beat it. You know what I mean? They were like, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? You know, and, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, and I, and I flushed my turtle down to the toilet when I was 15. What are you telling me? I was like, yo, listen, man, I'm telling you this is what I did. And he was like, okay, he gave me his card. he was like all right we had heard from anything he said when did the house at 1993 he said he said he was like

you think you waited long enough you know what I'm saying and then I was like I was like excuse me I was like you know whatever and then so he gave me his card he was like yo and he said let me get your phone number too

I gave him my phone number he was like I'll call you if anything okay I said okay I lost my phone right so now So now that was like kind of my deciding, my point where I was like, okay, well, you know, if they don't call me, you know, it is what it is or like that.

But then I lost the phone. So I was like, damn, I'm never going to know if they tried to call me. You know what I'm saying? So I said I'm going to go that night. I said I'm going to go back down here one more time. And which precinct, the same precinct where you grew up in East Harlem where you caught the murder yeah okay yeah right down 120th or 119th or so um so i get this on the train i said this is it this the last time i'm doing this you know so i get to the train goes goes there

i said all right you know um so i'll go in and i said oh look da-da-da-da-ta-da told me i said you know a couple years back i think i shot somebody i don't know what happened you know i just wanted to make sure everything i don't know what happened you know if you you're So what? You know, just trying to, you know, rectify the matter. He was like, for real? He's like, wow. He said, all right.

So this was a different guy. You know, he was a little bit more thorough. He was like, oh, he was like, oh, he was like, oh, he was like, all right, hold on. So he goes back. He comes back. He asks me a couple more questions. Yo, what were you wearing that day? You know, I said I had a brown jacket on.

He says, he said, he was like, I said, I was riding a bike, too. He was like, oh, really? He goes in the back. He comes back. He was like, he was like around, when was it? Like, when, do you remember? Like, when was it? I said it was like in the winter.

It was like in the winter. I said I had a jacket on, so it was like the fall. He was like, he was like, yo, could you step back here with me for a minute? And so I was like, you know, I said, yeah, this is it, you know. So when he stepped, when I step back there, he started. I started to ask me more questions and come to find out, you know, that's when they had, I guess at that point, they already knew that it was like, oh, this is the case right here, you know? It was like, yo, because they, and they come to find out, they, they, once you know, we found my name out, I guess that's what also made him, you know, be, you know, like, kind of like, piques his suspicion because he was like, yo, he was like, because, because come to find out, my name was on the, like, they. already like knew it was me so you were like a person of interest yeah shooting yeah okay you know

what I'm saying like I never knew that you know what I'm saying like when I because when I when the when the DA was asking me the questions and stuff like that they were like oh they were like yo um they were like yo you um uh no I'm looking at the thing you know what what what thing the uh the the the police report Like, I can kind of see, see it. Did they show you a photo of the body? Like, did they take pictures? Yeah, they had a bunch of that stuff. Like, they had, like, pictures of him and stuff like that.

But they were just asking me questions mostly, you know what I mean? But, like, I can kind of see his, like, his, like, little whatever he had, like, the folder. And I could see, like, my name. You know what I mean? Like, and you can tell, like, it was old, you know what I mean? And I was like, and I think I might even ask him. I was like, how come my name is right there? And he was like, yeah, you know, somebody told us that you might have something to do with this back then.

Wow. Back then. So somebody that you told back then. No, not nobody I told. How could they have, they might have saw it out the window or they might have saw it or knew it was me. You know what I mean? I don't know. It might have been.

Who knows? I don't think it was somebody I told. Yeah, who knows? Like, you know what I'm saying? Everybody's always talking. Yeah. People are always getting arrested and giving out names to try to get themselves out. Yeah.

Or somebody might have actually seen it. Yeah. Oh, look, that was, you know, it was this guy. So your name was in the file, and then the details you gave them. Yeah, that just... How long did it take them? Like, how long were they back there interrogating you? Oh, not long.

I mean, it was, it was like, it just seemed, like, you know, quick to me. But we was back there for hours. Like, I got there about, like, one in the morning. By the time we were done, it was like six in the morning. And they were leaving, you know, when we left, it was daylight, you know, when we was going down to the Central Booking and all of that. Okay. So they arrest you? Yeah, they arresting me.

And then that was that, you know. And, you know, I didn't, I don't know how. And then, you know, then I started thinking about when we were headed down to the precinct, I mean, to Central Booking, I started thinking about my family and things like that. And I'm like, and I'm like, damn, I need to call somebody. You know, I've been going all morning. They probably wonder where I'm at, you know what I mean? And then when I finally got to the pre-down-Centure booking, I was able to make a call, some calls.

And I called my mother. She was like, you know, you know, this thing is already. It was already on the news. I was like, how? This is, like, just happened. Like, I'm only in the precinct. How the hell is it on the news? The New York Post, I'm sure.

Yeah, it was on, it was like on, remember they had the MTV thing back then? Yeah. What's the guy name? Sway? No, Carson Daly? Nah, the older dude. He was like an older dude.

MTV? Oh, Kurt Lowder. Kirk Lauder. Ah, Kirk Lauder. Rest of Feet's legend. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Kurt Lider.

You know, he was talking about it. Wow. I didn't realize that wasn't Kurt Lider was. Yeah, man. Yeah. Wow. So he did the report. He was like, yeah, rapper is it?

I've been my scene at later on. And then, yeah, so, you know, it was, it was wild. Was your family shocked? No, I mean, I told them about it before, you know, so they weren't, like, unfamiliar with what they were talking about. But they were shocked that I did that, of course. I'm sure the other inmates were shocked. Oh, yeah, man, they were.

Oh, man, you tripped. Yo, I can't believe, yo, yo, man. Bugging. Word. It was, like, dudes, you know, I got it. I got it from all angles. You know what I'm saying? But to me, I didn't kid, you know what I mean?

So that freedom? Yeah. That weight lifted off your shoulders. You felt that? Yeah, man. Like, to me, it was, you know, I used the justice system to, you know, for, you know, for my benefit. Yeah. Like, I wasn't there for that.

Like, I didn't care what they thought. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? Like, I needed to, y'all don't know. They didn't know what I went through, you know what I'm saying. So what were you charged with? so to speak. So, I mean, you know, like, that's how I looked at it.

I looked at it, like, you know, that I needed help. I didn't care what people were saying and stuff like that. But they charged me, they charged me with a second-degree murder. You know what I mean? They charged me second-degree murder. Because you weren't intending to kill him. Right. And they believed you.

Like, you were there to rob him. Right, right. According to my story, because that's all they had. It was just like, yeah. You know, I mean. So who did the individual's family come to court? Like, did you find out who they were? And they must have obviously been contacted, right?

Yeah, yeah. What I understand, his brother-in-law came, his brother-in-law came to, you know, he was more vocal about everything. You know, he was like, you know, he was the guy that was, you know, yo, he didn't have to do that. You know, he should have shed his mouth. You know, we were past it. We were trying to heal.

We were over it. Wow. Word. It was like the complete opposite of what I thought a family member would have said. Totally. He was like, he was like, I hate him even more now. I was like, damn. You know what I'm saying?

And he was just like, you know, he was wilding. He was wild in the in the auto, which is understandable. Like, you can't expect people to feel the way you want them to feel. Right, Sam. But he was just like, yo, this guy's a complete asshole. Like, I don't know what the hell he was thinking. Like, he should have just kept his mouth shift.

That's fucking crazy. Because any time you hear about a family after a cool case gets solved, they're like, I've been living with this for every day since he left us. I'm so relieved. Yeah, like, he just wild throwing me. I mean like, yo, I can't believe. If he could have spit him off, if he, he probably was more upset that I did that than actually, that's what it seemed like. And so, yeah.

How long were you, did they send you to Rikers? While you were waiting to go to trial or go to court? Yeah, I was in the tombs at first, but then I went to Rikers Island. I was on Rikers Island. And you hadn't been back there for 15, 20 years. Yeah, yeah, that was, that was, yeah. Was it a trip being back there? No, I mean, actually, actually, no, I can't even say that because before I went, before,

you know, like I, like I said, I was, I was at, you know, I was at a low point, you know, in my life at that time, you know, I was out there at a certain point, like I was just, you know, just living, check to check, you know, show to show, like, you know, even the shows was like after a while, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, so, you know, so. So I was getting arrested a lot. You know, I was going to Rikers Island. Oh, seriously? Yes, I was like a regular on Rikers Island. Oh, no way. So you were getting arrested for what? Just trespassing.

I was in a building. I used to go in a building and smoke through dust. Yeah. So I would go in the building, smoke. I was always in the wrong building at the wrong time. You know what I mean? Hey, you, you got ID? No?

Come on. You know, like I got so many of those. You know, it was disgusting. So you really were like a dope fiend? I don't, I'm not going to see I was a dog. Sorry, I know that's insulting, but I mean, that's just describing it. You were a real addict. I was, yeah, I was, I was, I was destitute.

I was a destitute addict, you know what I mean? Like I was living, you know, people they really want me to live with them, you know what I mean? And, you know, but, you know, I still have my family, you know what I'm saying? They were, they were, they were still there for me, you know what I'm saying? I was still, who was still, you know what? I was to them, you know, they still could see me and me, but, you know, the outside looking in, like, it was bad, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I couldn't, you know, everything that I, you know, was into, you know,

everything that I had worked towards was out of there, you know what I mean? So I was just kind of trying to rebuild, you know, in my own way, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, like I said, like I was just, like I was getting caught in buildings and, you know, just suspended licenses, riding around, you know, high. I almost got a DUI didn't. But they dropped it because I was just sitting in the car. And then the guy kind of came and they asked me for my, so I was like in car intoxicated or high or whatever. And he was like, yo, but I want to be in that.

You know what I mean? But, you know, so I, you know, I was going back and forth to the island, you know, so much that when I got there, it was like, oh, you again. But you were here for what? You know, one of those things. So did they, was there any, like, the 15 to life? That was a plea deal, obviously. Oh, no. That was, that was, they offered me 15 to life.

right and I guess the way my case was to them you know they also offered me 15 in life if I blew the trial and my and my lawyer was like yo look we should still take this to trial you know what I mean because it's it's like um you know this might not be the case this might be you know they might be railroading you for some other case. So let's make them actually, you know, bring the facts, you know, you know, just take you on through it. Interesting. Yeah. So we took it to trial. And the reason why he did that was because he said, yo, look, they're offering you 15 of life. So if you blow, you're going to get 15 in life. Either way. He said either, he said, they're going to give you 15 a life even if you blow. But at trial, what is your defense,

trying to defend you based off of because you're confessing. Right. He really wasn't trying to defend me. He was really trying to make sure that the case that they were trying to prove was the case that I confessed to. Like the right body. Right. Because if not, years later, they could say, oh, wait. Right.

No, that wasn't that. Somebody else. So now we're going to arrest you for this. Right. And you're already sitting doing 15 to life and now I got another 15 to life or whatever. Yeah, I see. Or it was just, or maybe I didn't do what I did. Maybe, maybe the guy, maybe you got, maybe the case that you're talking about, the guy didn't die.

You know what I mean? Right. So let's make sure that this is the case. Right. You know what I mean? So that was what we did. Wow. That's really interesting from a legal perspective.

Yeah. But I could tell that that was the case. Like, I knew off the rip, the first day we went to trial, they showed, I don't mean to laugh, but they, they showed the crime seat. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they showed the the market. I'm like, yeah, that's it. It couldn't have happened. Like, it couldn't have been

no other time that that happened at that time right there at that spot. You know what I'm saying? Like, I live in that neighborhood. Like, I would have probably knew about it. You know what I'm saying? Did you take the stand? No, I didn't take the stand. But, you know, like I said, they showed the cars

and, you know, this is this is 2010. This is 2010. You see the cars looking mad old, 93, you know, they showed the whole angle of where it happened. I'm like, yeah, that's, that's it. But, you know, the lawyer, you know, he, you know, he went all the way with it. Like, let them trip up one time and you're out. Right. You know, so that was, that was his thing.

What were you thinking in your mind? Were you like, okay, now that I've confessed, I got this weight lifted off my shoulders, if I beat the case, like, how were you feeling? Were you expecting to go home, or were you just like, whatever happens? As time went on, I ain't going to lie. Like, I did, I was like, well, maybe I'm not going to go to jail. You know, maybe, maybe that wasn't, this isn't what happened, you know,

but, you know, that was just kind of wish for thinking. Like, I just, you know, like I said, like, I turned myself in, but I didn't want to go to jail. You know what I'm saying? I just wanted to get, you know, you know, I knew that I was going to either go to jail or not. You know what I mean? So, you know, the fact that I was going to jail was like, okay, I'm going to jail.

But, you know, still, you know, if I can get out, sure. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? But if I would have, if I would have realized he died still, like, you know, like that's why, you know, I thought I needed to, you know, be incarcerated. You know, if I, if I would have, you know, so I'm saying like if, if, you know, if they proved that it wasn't, like, if, if they proved that this would have been crazy. If they would have proved that it was some type of way, if it was some fluke of chance that he would have, that they would have found out that said it wasn't me.

And he, and it was, and then this guy died. and I knew that I did that, then it would have been like something ill, because, like, I remember this face after a while, like when they start showing him, I'm like, yeah, that was definitely him. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, you know, so, you know,

you know, after a while, I was just kind of like just wishful thinking, like, yo, like, maybe this is just all. You did it for closure for yourself. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. And whatever happened, jail or no jail, you were getting accepted.

Yeah, it was like, you know what I mean? Now, did you withdraw? Like, now that you're on the island, you're in jail, are you withdrawing from PCP? Oh, no. PCP is really not that kind of drug. You know, I mean, you, you, you know, you go through, like, kind of, I guess you go through withdrawal.

You sleep. I just slept a lot. It wasn't like a physical, you know, eight campaign, like dope, yeah, like heroin. It wasn't like that. It was just kind of just like, you know, I knew I couldn't smoke anymore. You know what I mean?

So I was like, I just, you know, I fell back. So you go off, you get sentenced in 2011? 2012. Okay. Yeah. So you get 15 to life? Yeah, 15 of life. 15 to life.

And then you just came home. God, what, two years ago? Yeah. And this was a really interesting case, the governor of New York, Kathy Hochel. Kathy Hochel. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Kelly Hoke will bless us all. Tell her, tell us what happened. Man, she, she, she, they, we put it for, we put it for, for clemency, praise the creator, man. We put in, put it for clemency. And, um, what is, what is the difference between clemency and, and getting parole? Well, clemency is like, you, you, you, it's like the government grants you early, early,

like release, you know, where you don't, you know, most, most, most people that get clemese, you You know, they, they don't, I don't even think, I don't know, I don't know for sure. I don't know. I don't think they have to, if you get clemency, I don't know if you even have to be on parole. You know, I think it's like a different kind of setup. You know what I mean? But, but basically, you know, clemency let you out before. That's what I think it really is.

Clemency lets you out before your parole. Okay. It's like, you know, whereas you would still have to wait for you. your parole, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so do you think that the fact that you turned yourself in, obviously you were remorseful, do you think that had a lot to do with getting the clemency? Yeah.

I'm sure it did, right? Yeah, I think that was that had, you know, that kind of weighed in when they, you know, when they, you know, made their decision. Because the clemency lawyer, you contacted me. And he was like, yo, you know, they kind of suggested, they're not kind of suggested, they suggested the judge and the DA that tried the case suggested that I get clemency. Wow. Yeah.

The judge and the DA. The judge and the DA, they contacted him, the lawyer. Yeah. And he contacted me. He said, yo, look, this never happens. They contacted me and told me to contact you. Because this guy is so sought after, you know, so he gets some thousands, literally, of people trying to get him, you know, for...

This clemency lawyer. Yeah, this clemency lawyer, Stephen Zidman. And, you know, he just contacted me out of nowhere one day. He sent me an email on J-Pay. And he was like, yo, look, you know, we look at, you know, this lawyer, the judge and the DA recommended that I contact you to, you know, put your clemency in. I was like, wow, really. So we started working.

Wow. We did. We put the clemency in, you know, the first time I didn't get it. But then the next year came around. Yeah, I got it. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, that never happens, right?

A guy turning himself in for a case. Yeah. 15 years old, 17 years old. Right. And he was like, you know, the judges then was like, you know, they were, you know, they just like, yo, we didn't, we didn't want to give him all of that time. but we had to, you know? Yeah.

So they were like, yo, you know, let them out. You know what I'm saying? Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And you had a good prison record? Like you had like a...

Yeah. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like super squeaky clean, but I didn't have anything that was like, you know, super crazy. I was outstanding. Like, I got a couple of tickets for, like, dumb stuff. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. After 15 years, you're going to get a couple of times.

I can get a ticket. Yeah. So, you know, but it, so, you know, it didn't really matter for anything, you know what I mean. Well, congratulations, man. That's a really deep story and it's so unique and that's why when you guys hit me up, I didn't have to think twice. I knew I needed to hear this from you. What a journey, man.

How do you feel now? I mean, it's still amazing, man. It's still amazing, you know. And then to be an adult, you know. living living life on you know life's times yeah so to speak like you know it's like you know it's everything i mean you know life life is you know life is is is what it is you know you know but i'm i'm just here for it you know what i mean you know and i'm and i'm glad that i'm here for you know what i'm saying and you feel free yeah you know i mean you know i feel free i feel

like, you know, you know, you know, it is, it is, you know, whatever it will be will be kind of thing. Not it is what it is. It's whatever will be will be now, you know, I did what I can do. You know what I'm saying? So all I can do is live and, you know, it's in the hands of the creator now, you know? That's it, man. Are you promoting anything? What can we promote for you?

Yeah, I mean, I'm, you know, I see, you know, I'm a walking bill, boy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I love that, dude. Thank you, man. I got the album. We did a few albums. You know what I mean? You know, we got a movie, a movie, excuse me, a book, you know, a book coming out written by a guy named Ron Borges.

So we got that coming, you know. Through a ran into a guy named Dan Pearson, the producer, who, you know, has a bunch of movies that he's involved in a bunch of books. So I'm going through his, you know, his company. And you know, what about the music? Where can where can people find you? Oh, the music man. They can find me, you know, just go just punching G. Depp Yeah, you know what I'm saying? For all you youngsters, dude, that don't remember the CD, the VCR, man. This man was popping. Go go go back and start from the beginning. Yeah, man. Punching G. Depp, man. You catch us at, you know, you know, Instagram at G. AdG. Depp official. You know what I'm saying? Keep, you know, you know, if you want to, you know, be, you know, keep, keep, keep up-to-date. it was going on in real time. You know, all the YouTube channels is G-Depp official.

At G-Debt official, man. We got three albums out right now. Less is never, less has never losses. Stay ready and off the count. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You're putting in work, man. You're back energized.

Yes. Yeah. That's definitely what's going on, man. That's what's up. Praise the creator. Man, it's been an honor. Likewise. It's been an honor.

All right, you guys. We're going to jump over to the Patreon, and we'll talk a little bit more, just about anything we didn't get to. But G-Dap, man. I appreciate you, buddy. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me.

You got it. All right, go check them out. And we'll see you next time. Have over to the patreon.com slash the Connect show. Peace out.