The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Ex-Cop Sentenced to 20 Years—Then Forced to Fight for His Life in Prison

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

A former sheriff’s deputy says one split-second police shooting turned him from a respected officer into a convicted murderer—and sent him to Texas prison for 20 years. In this episode, Kent McGowen tells the full story of the night he served an arrest warrant on an armed woman, fired after she allegedly refused repeated commands to drop her weapon and later found himself charged with murder. Kent explains why he believes he was railroaded by corrupt officials, how his conviction survived multiple trials and appeals, and what happened when he went from enforcing the law to fighting for his life behind bars. He also exposes the brutal realities of the Texas prison system, including extreme heat, violence, suicide, untreated mental illness, guard misconduct and the dangers he faced as a former police officer living among inmates. Was this a justified police shooting—or a murder? Was Kent held accountable for his actions, or sacrificed to protect a corrupt system? Watch the full interview and decide for yourself. Go Support Kent! Book: https://a.co/d/08T9XO6m Make a Donation: https://www.givesendgo.com/G31TC Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Deadly Encounter: The Incident 00:24 Introducing Kent McGowen 01:11 Life as a Cop in Texas Prisons 01:50 Horrors of Texas Prison Conditions 03:19 Survival, Food, and Suicides 05:55 First and Only Prison Fight 09:00 Wild Personalities Behind Bars 17:01 Murders in Prison 21:22 Mail, Communication, and System Abuse 23:34 Corruption and Lack of Accountability 29:16 The Shooting Incident and Background 37:11 Executing the Warrant 41:53 The Shooting and Aftermath 49:35 The Indictment and Arrest 55:21 Political Games and Legal Strategy 01:01:01 Life on Bond During Legal Battles 01:09:06 Trial, Appeals, and Corrupt Lawyers 01:18:36 Second Trial and Legal Incompetence 01:26:43 Losing Trial, Sentencing, and Prison Transfer 01:31:46 Surviving as a Cop in Prison 01:47:40 Endless Parole Denials and Family Impact 01:58:19 Final Release and Post-Prison Life 02:06:56 Ongoing Legal Battles and Activism 02:09:01 Seeking Justice and Lessons Learned 02:12:08 Innocents Behind Bars and Conclusion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I said, drop the gun, drop the gun. And she never says a word. She turned and goes like this, and we're 11 feet apart, pointing guns each other. And I fired as I was trying to do. I fired a three-round burst. And he said, they handed out still in diamond tight. For what? He said, for murder.

They come back, like, five hours later. They come back, they found me guilty. It is an absolute miracle. I was not murdered in prison or worse. This is utterly annihilated my family. What is life like for a convicted cop serving time in a maximum security, Texas prison? My guest today can answer that for you. Kent McGowan is a former Houston sheriff who served 20 years in prison for shooting a suspect

who pointed a gun at him while he was executing a search warrant. It was, by all accounts, a clean shoot, but for personal and political purposes, a vindictive Harris County prosecutor and a cabal of corrupt sheriffs were able to convict McGowan of first-degree murder. In this incredible interview, you'll get to see how hopelessly corrupt the justice system is, and especially in Texas, top to bottom, from the police department to the prosecutor's office, to the prison guards who would beat up McGowan just for maintaining his innocence. Kent has written a remarkable book about his experience called Reasonable Doubts,

which goes in depth and exposes just how evil, violent, and unjust the state of Texas is. If you guys hate the system, this is the interview for you. It's Kent McGowan right here on The Connect with John. I think people that come from more civilized states like me, you know, who did time in Oregon, who saw all of these rehabilitation programs that the staff was trying to implement. You have guards that have empathy. You have a structure that really, like, follows the rules. They can't believe that the archaicness and the backwardness of prisons in the South.

With no air conditioning. With no air conditioning. And in the winter, the little short winters we have, water leaks in. They don't turn on the heaters. They just have these little portable heater things. Yeah. You can't, you know. They don't even turn them on.

But man, water's pouring. You're wet and cold all winter. And for nine months you're sweating your ass off. Sweating your ass. And people must die of heat exhaust every year. Yeah. Yeah. When I got into it with them, it was in 2013.

Man, they had to have an inmates dying from the heat. It had a heat wave. Yeah. And they put me in a corner in a corner. in a corner cell, if you will. So I had the sun basically all day. And I was on this little short span of guy who was pretty much a comedian.

He had no money, no fan, anything. They wouldn't give us a fan. And I had a guard to come here and one night and said, man, this is crazy. They had a little laser thing they'd shoot. There's 111 degrees in there at 11 o'clock at night. It's so hot you're sleeping on because the whole buildings are concrete and steel, right?

So it's like a convection of them. They don't cool off when the sun goes down, you know? And laying on a sit on a bench or on your bunk, you know, plastic mat and it's thick, and just rolling over, you're like Velcro to it. You're just stuck to it. Yeah. I would wet a T-shirt, like sleep on my sides,

have more air, a little wet t-shirt rolling between my knees, keep my legs sprung apart. And there must be people who are killing themselves every day. Just why, okay, I got life in prison. I got some crazy sentence, probably for something I didn't even do, right? And I got to live like this nine months a year for the next 50, 60 years.

I'm just going to get it over with. Yeah, there's no, yeah, Texas, it's not a rehabilitative state. It's on, I call it like the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. I talk Texas Department of Criminal and non-justice. They literally warehouse you in there. They, you know, I'm all down for the punishment for bad guys, whatever. But as bad as some guys are, they're human beings. You know, you can't have a dog pound without an air conditioner,

but you can have 165,000 inmates in there. You know, feeding them, you know, slop, you know, spinach, or what are they, they drag out of the beans every meal, which I literally have, like you see in the movies, man, rocks and bugs in the food. They just feed you just cold slop, it's crazy. Then when they do lockdowns, they literally feed you two pieces of, I mean, like literally have mold, stale, moldy bread.

It's not peanut butter. I call it peanut butter. It's like lard with something in it. I mean, it's literally this thick. That's you eat them for a week, two weeks, no showers in the heat. It's a, you know, you're usually locked in a cell with an idiot. Yeah. But it's a...

Which might be the most torturous part. It's to have to buddy, buddy up with a guy who's literally making you dumber as he's talking to you. You feel your soul and your brain cells leave you. Especially locked in there with some pervert, you know, he doesn't want to, you know, jerk off odds. Hey, man, you ain't doing that here. Did you ever have to, like, smash somebody out? I got one physical confrontation in there. Okay.

And it was, are we going here? Or do you want me to tell the story when we're going? Yeah, we're going already. But I just find it fascinated because you were like an upstanding cop. You were a, I mean, you look like you sell insurance or you do. I've had the same. You look like the neighbor next door. I mean.

I've had the same haircut since I was two. And I only had one physical confrontation. I was in there. And it was this guy, man. His face is all messed up. He would tell me he shot heroin in one side of his neck and meth in the other. at the same time. I believe it of this guy. Black-rotted teeth. And man, he would just pull out his piece, dance around the hallway in front of the guards, calling him the N-word

and whatever. The staffs despise that dude and all the inmates did. And it was, I asked him one time, man, I said, you're too stupid to commit a crime. How'd you want him prison? It was, oh, man, for illegal oyster harvesting. I said, yeah. I said, is that the law? I mean, this guy was an idiot. And he said, yeah, man. He said, I didn't know. he said this guy had an oyster boat and he was running in Trinity Bay and they're illegally oistering harvesting oysters

the water's contaminated up near the river and he told that guy he told me he'd give him $100 a day and all the beer he could drink because all you gotta do is stand on the boat if you get a ticket you take the ticket and I'll pay for it with your third ticket on it's a felony

you know that's got a history of being an idiot and going to jail and he wasn't that old he was like maybe 32 at the time but he they popped to as a felony and they gave him the maximum 10 years

winds up on a unit in Rocheron with me. Man. And then it was Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. And he was like there was a, an Hispanic guy, remember his name was Lamone. I mean, Lima, yeah, Lamone. And I'd never seen this guy before, never paid attention. It was like him, then this idiot guy, who will call John. And a couple of inmates than me.

But this idiot guy kept on and on this guy on this guy on this guy on this guy. And I was like, dude, don't even know you. This is a Spanish guy was twice as size. That's this white guy who's small. And then he's popping off eating. They dismiss you by rows, right? So we're going out, and you go in the hallway, you took a right to go to the housing area,

took a left to go to the pill window. Well, see, this Lomone guy take a left. Well, see, his John guy, take a left, too, right? So I was taking the right and heard his commotion. I turn around. This John guy's and this Lomone guy's back, and he's hitting him, we had a razor blade in his hand.

I didn't know he had a razor blade, you know? And there's just two female Nigerian guards saying and they're doing, they always, absolutely nothing, watching this. Everybody's in an uproar, and the fights are coming toward me, and I'm seeing this Lamone guy, who I'd never seen before,

I mean, he was just pouring blood. So I think the guys got, he's popping him so good. I know his neck was cut. But the fights coming toward me, I'm looking at these guards, they're doing nothing. They're not saying,

they're not saying, stop, nothing. So they came up to me, and this is like maybe 30 seconds by telling it to me. So I grabbed his giant guy, and reversed arm bar, and I slammed him straight flat on his back.

You know, showed that Lamone, We're in front of the infirmary, and it was all glass windows. And all the nurses were looking at us. I slaying the limone on us. I mean, the John guy down, showed him on toward the infirmary. John guy springs up on me, and he came to me, and I was crying him by the throat. And it's like a Scooby-Doo cartoon.

He's doing this trying to hit me. And I say, hey, I'm telling you, man, you know. And so, no, he was doing anything. So I popped him in the forehead, knocked him out down again. And all these guards come running in there. And you understand the guy's life. Yeah, they take him in the infirmary, and they shove me in the infirmary, you know, because they need to deal with that. And when I see this guy's bleeding and that guy took a razor blade and tried to cut his throat,

they sent this John guy to the Nut House for like a week. And then when they let him out, I was in a dorm at this point. And the guy, really good guy in a bunk next to me, been that bunk five years. They can say, hey, pack your stuff up. So I was like, oh, man, because he's a good dude. And then they bring this John guy and put him in the bunk right next to me. This is intentionally because I had a lawsuit going on that unit against him. a bunch of people, but the warden and a major,

and they were both Nigerians. And then this guy was on and off for like two weeks. I said, I'm going to go with this guy, man. I'm going to go with this guy. So I came in one night from, I was sitting college classes, and he tried to trip me. And so I went in my bunk, and he follows me over there, you know, running his head.

And there was a big bright light behind me so I could see a shadow on my bunk, right? And so I looked at the shadow, watching it. And I'll turn my back on him. I figured he's going to come at me on the back, right? And I see him lean up, so I turn around. I'd watched him, so I knew he was right-handed. I was ready to catch the swing.

He leans forward and spits in my face, those black, rotted teeth. In my entire life, that's the only time I've ever been in condition black. I'm absolutely berserk, man. And he was a somewhat smaller dude. A lot smaller me. I grew up on the neck, bring the day room with the TV, the TV breaks.

I haven't been over backwards on this table. There's two female Nigerian guards in there, hollered me to let him go. At this point, I'm calming down, you know. I said, handcuff him. I'm not going to let him go, you know. I'm arguing with these guards. and he bites me on the thumb,

which led to a big infected mess. Oh. But he, yeah, so I finally just wound up. I know I'd hit somebody not leave Marks, so he accidentally went unconscious for whatever reason at the time. I said, now, can you handcuff him now? So anyway, I went down in the infirmary

because they knew how these lawsuits going against these people, you know, and I didn't put up with a crap. And so the nurses weren't doing anything. So I pick up a large metal, whatever kind of advice, they hang IVs on. I wanted to bash it out the window in where the medicine was.

I'm parodium peroxide or whatever. And in the story, they put me in SEG. They're going to lock this dude off for 11 days. After I started, why this guy locked up in SAG? Yeah, well, and he tried to kill somebody. Slid a dude's throat. Because if you're, there are certain elements in, I know everything with the Texan penal system.

Other states, I don't know. If you're totally psychotic like that, or there's a few other elements in there, you do what you want. Because TDC's, their attitude is that. there's nothing we can do with them. What do you mean to do? They do nothing to people like that, you know?

So you were also saying off camera that there's a lot of suicides in CDC, you, TDC. There's a lot of alleged suicides. Right. In the Texas prison system. But what is that usually? Well, you see it now. Daily's going on. These are the guards.

I was locked up in a, I spent a lot of time. And they called here Ad Seg, Administrative Seg or military confinement, because they would talk pulling a stunt or whatever. And actually, if I just needed a vacation from the dorms or the wings or whatever, I had that ace in the hole. I'd go down, I'd catch a sergeant or a captain and say, hey, man, that guy read that tabloor trash book or recognized me from the street or something. So they'd put me in SAG for three or four days.

I said in a commissary, I could read, hang out, doing a want-one cell, you know. But I was back to one day, and there was a young white guy, And I remember him hollering about His girlfriend had left him These guards kept on Tell him to shut up And he was just losing it back there, man And then they came in hell

This guy down and beat him And I strangled him Or beating on him And he dies And I mean, they don't care That I saw this I mean, they don't care But I'll get to that in a second

But anyway, They stream the guy up with a sheet And they burn off And another one comes back About 30 minutes later Because there's no cameras back there About 30 minutes later He goes, oh, we got one hanging in here

And I'm like, what? What? They strung the guy up He didn't leave. And one of the guys who was involved in this walks by, like doing his rounds like 30 minutes later. Oh, he's, we got a hanger in here. You know, I was like, man.

So I wrote that up, and they tried to cover it up. So I wrote a statement, and I was talking to OIG. TDC has their own police force. It's the office of Inspector General. They're a bunch of corrupt buffoons, absolute clown show. All they are is prison guards. You go to like these little community colleges

and get their police certifications, very minimal. well, they're not going to throw their, they're going to fall charges on their beer drinking buddies and their fishing pals, the prison guards, you know, because most of them were previous prison guards. So you file basically a statement saying, it's a murder that they don't do anything. Right.

OIG called me down about another issue that I had to go on with them. I was talking to this OIG investigator. And then I said, hey, and another inmate saw it too in order to statement, I had both statements in my pocket. And I said, hey, you know the guy that supposedly hung himself ostensibly the other day. Yeah, yeah. I said, hey, I got,

why don't you read these? That dude knew. He looked at those and looked up at me like this and was looking at him. He was all take care of this. Never heard of another word about it. They do nothing.

That happens all the time. When you go to prison, particularly in Texas, if you, like my family, knowing how family's been to jail, no tickets and nothing, right? With TDC, if you started getting word out,

because I was there nine years before he had phones, Texas was the last penal institution and not had phones. The last one's, to get them, I should say. I was in nine years now phones. But they tell, they'll tell your family. He can't handle he's gone crazy in here. He's on drugs. He's an habitual liar. And will they seize your mail? Like if you want to write a letter out to tell the truth?

Yeah. When I was in there, I was sending letters out and they weren't making it, you know, to my family. And then finally my dad contacted the U.S. Postal Service. They're, they have like Inspector General, I think. And under federal law, they have, once that mail is delivered to that, the prison unit front gate, it's delivered to that address. It's up to the prison guards to let you have your mail. And if you send a letter out, it's not U.S. postal property, if you will, until the postal service picks up that bag in the front of the prison unit. Under the federal law, Wolf v. McDonald, that protects your legal mail, legal mail, media mail, and special mail is like to a senator or whatever. That didn't stop them, man.

I had federal lawsuits going, it cost me a lawsuit. The federal judge in Houston, administrator judge, sit in order for some more information for me. And you have 30 days respond to a federal order, right? And I got it. It was like 38 days past due when I get the letter. You know, they do that all the time. What is it about the culture of Texas, which is one of the worst that I've ever seen, you know, uneducated, proud to be stupid and racist and ugly.

It's an ugly people physically and spiritually, although they portend to be this like, you know, have these Christian values. What is it that makes it so lawless within the government? It's been, it's been. Like what about the culture makes the people, the administrators that run the police and the there's no accountability? There's no accountability. they do whatever they want.

There's nobody. There's people that watch over this stuff, you know. And it's just changing now, you know. But what's interesting. That's true. There's no accountability. Nobody says, hey, Warden, have you had three suicides on your unit?

You know, there's guys who are young 20s that, you know, they had an issue with these guards and they wound up, three guys weren't up hanging in a three-day time. There's, and when you're in prison, you're trying to make a complaint, your family's complaining. You got to text of Rangers, is what we did.

And every county I was at, we talked to the police, the sheriff, the DA. Most Texas prisons are on, they're in these ass-backward redneck Yehu counties. Well, you got a prison at the prison. You know, his brother-in-law is a sheriff. You know, his nephew's the constable.

His uncle's the DA. There's no getting out of it, you know. And if you do reach out to the feds or Texas Rangers, we did a number of times, they call. The Texas Rangers, you know, say they would call down to, you know, Stevenson, you know, where I was one time.

And then TDC goes, well, ROIG handles that. So they'll call OIG. And these Office of Inspector General retards, they, we got this. This is our purviews. We got this. We're investigating this. They do nothing. They do nothing, man.

Yeah, it's like Mexico operates that same way. Yeah. It's like these tiny little towns and they're living in like the 19th century. What's interesting, though, is that you were part of the government and you were held accountable, but probably too much. That's what the ironic thing about this whole situation is that you are a cop. And, you know, this is the most law enforcement-loving state

in the union. You know, how many cops have killed unarmed people and have not even spent a day and barely even got questioned about it, right? Right. And especially back then, your shooting happened in 1992 when there was no cameras.

Correct. And more racism, more prejudice, I got to think, within the law enforcement, within the police in cities and Texas, that's what makes this so unusual. So tell us about that shoot. Where were you working? And yeah, what happened that got you this murder beef? To address really quickly, one thing you said, the BWC body worn cameras. They wouldn't have got away with this. If my situation happened nowadays, even without body-worn cameras,

they couldn't get away what they did, shuffling paperwork and what they did. But, yeah, just what happened on this? I was working. I worked for the city of Houston PD for a number of years after the military. And then I went up, I left there under good terms, despite the tabloy trash, no issues. I took a commission at the Sheriff's Department while I was going to college.

And where I did the instructor for 14 months, then went out on patrol. and a field and position in District 1, which is North West Harris County. And just in the scope of my daily duties, I ran across this 19-year-old kid and wanted to be in my informant. And it was on a burger ring

and there was automatic weapons showing up, drive-bys, whatever. And it was some gang bleed over into the county from the out of the city. And this my informant called me one night. I'm a beeper. No phone. I had beepers back there. He called me in my pager.

And I called him back. And he said, hey, these guys that, while in spring, and they burglarized, they hit a house last night, burglarized a home, and they've got a gun. I said, what kind of gun did they steal? And he said, he was a pistol. And I got with my lieutenant, and this guy's a great guy,

Marine, he's a PhD, college professional. This is, police and this policeman, you know. But in between, we had a sergeant that we didn't like, and he was his worthless. So I'd really go to a Porte Lieutenant, and I ran everything by him, he authorized it. And my lieutenant said, yeah, go ahead and do a buy bust. we'll do the bigger fish thing, get these guys, which would have led to bigger things involved.

This is burglary? Yeah, what it was is some gang members, broil gang members out of Houston, went into these suburbs, and they were getting these little yuppie gang member of wannabes, 16, 17, 18-year-olds. And they say, hey, look, here's the deal, man, y'all hit these expensive homes up here. And all he wants semi-automatic rifles, AR-15s, mini-14s, whatever. And y'all keep whatever else. And then that's what automatic weapons are coming from. they were given the little wannabe gang bagners

in the county were given to these rural gang members out of Houston. They're converting them a full auto putting the big lasers I used to have on them. Right. And assilinters. And that's what was coming back in the county where the shootings were involved.

And these are like black gangs? Yeah, the ones out of Houston were and these young guys that, in the county, they weren't. I don't think there was one. I never saw one. They're just little young white guys, man. They got sucked into the early 90s

when rap was going. For sure. got these game members got a hold of them and got this crazy ball rolling, man. But they've been going on for a number of months. And, yeah, but they, anyway, except the by bust. So I was working in plain clothes. I was driving in a wrecker, driving a wrecker. And they had like four or five other patrol units around the back of the building.

This happened over off of 1960s, a major thoroughfare through North Harris County. And it was in a nightclub parking lot. So there were many witnesses. But they, I see the by the bar. bus go down. I get the bus signal. My guys come in, you know, the takedown team. Always arrest the informant. And it was the informant and then the suspect. Is it okay for his first names? Some of these guys? Sure. Okay, the one whose mother I wound up shooting 48 hours after this. His name was Jason. And then another guy who lied about this

the whole time. The other guy was with him was named Keith, but he lied to us that night because I didn't have a descriptor on this guy. But had other people in the street telling this guy named Keith, who drove this red beretta's the one bringing automatic weapons. He was like 17, 18. And they withheld that guy from us to this day. If he had gone to grand jury, I'd never got indicted. But anyway, we take him all down, you know. And on that scene, I was standing there.

I was working on a plane clothes. And I was in a patrol car back door up, and I was talking to this Jason kid, his mother I wound up shooting. And he had extensive criminal history, insane criminal history for his age. Actually, they brought the trial to testify he was in shackles, both times. He was in Angola, President Louisiana

he brought him in. But I see his car pull up in somebody with Joe Pesci movie. This big heavy-sad guy gets out black silk suit, black hair combed back, red collar. I never forget to see it.

I was running a red shirt with a big red collar and a Italian gold, Italian lovehorn, pendant. And this female gets out who wound up the one of one I'm shooting in 48 hours over this.

But they get out, and I remember my partner, Scott, my brother, partner Scott. And I said, man, there's someone who's pissed off parents. Well, she goes up to one patrol car, and she's clearly intoxicated. And the guy was with her was kind of standing back.

And she goes to one, this deputy in this patrol car, who I'd never remember until he came across the statement about six months ago. This is how that woman knew my name. She went up, she went up there and said, this is an effort set up. She's blasted up her mind. This is an effort set up. My son went to do this and that and whatever. And he goes, I'm not in charge of the scene. This deputy McGowan scene.

after 34 years, we find a document that on just a few months ago, his statement and some documents you got to. That's how she knew my name. But she went at the minimum of four other deputies, and one of them was, I was 27, like 511-185 this time, big, big white rib mustache. But she goes up to this other deputy, and Tommy, he was like 60-something years old,

six four, 300 pounds at least, and another deputy tall, skinny redhead guy. I looked nothing like me, calling them all my gallon. Well, 48 hours prior to the shooting, She had no idea who I was, you know, clearly. And then those four deputies kept saying, I'm not like that's McGowan. So she goes up to Scott, my partner, standing next to me.

He was in uniform. Started calling him again. Now, I'm like three feet from her. Finally I stand up and I said, you know, who are you? And she goes, that's my son in the car. This is a niffed set up. And I said, and this is the first one I've ever spoke to this woman. I said, and one of the only times besides rough, far shot her.

I said, you need to get your ass out of here. You're going to go jail for interfering. Well, the guys with her knew not to screw with us, right? So he grabbed her and get out of here, you know. They get their black, his black Lincoln town car. And then she bails out about five minutes later. And she said the one of the first cell phones, the big brick ones with the black rubber antenna,

she comes running up to me and she said, hey, I got captain so-and-so on the phone. And it's like 1.30 on, like, Saturday night, Sunday morning, like 1-30 in the morning. The suspect's mother had the captain of your police or sheriff's unit on the phone? Yeah. Well, he used to be the captain. district and then I knew he was I didn't like he went in my chain of command and I'm in

the middle of arrest scene I said look I don't he's not my chain of command anymore I said he has my beeper number he can call me tomorrow up to what's going on you get trash out here to drag her out and then we take everybody down to the substation you know and then we're to deal with the informant I say when we get down there you know let's we're asking you have asthma so we can pull you up to the side well I was in there my lieutenant the good guy I said sitting there and he's across the desk. I'm writing the report.

You know, they didn't have computers then. We're delivered handwrote written at the sheriff's part we did. HPD had computers. We're riding the port and her phone rings. You know, he answers, say, lieutenant so-and-so, you know, district one command. And he's like, all right, he hangs up. I said, what hell is that?

He goes, that crazy-ass woman from the scene. She's a raising helm. So she calls back. And then he's like rolling his eyes, making goofy faces at me. And he was, all right, well, I'll take you care of it. I said, what tell she called for? He said she was telling him that, and all these people were down there and witnessed it. Well, they witnessed it not happened because it didn't.

She was telling him that at the arrest scene that I was making comments to her, you know, hey, are you divorced yet? Don't hear nothing about this woman. You know, she had sex, our shapely legs and stuff. We laughed it off, you know. By an hour later, she shows up a substation, and now it's like, like three in morning, blasted out of her mind, screaming and hollering, and so my lieutenant, two deputies on Thursday, said, you need you get trashed. out of here. Sober up. Your son will be able to jail. You can call him like

six hours, whatever. And so she goes home. And that morning she started going, they used to have long distance bills, right? She's going through long distance bills. And she's just randomly calling numbers she doesn't know because they figured out who the informant was. And

my informant at the time failed. He was 19. She was 43. And her husband was 56. He forgot to tell me that he was been banging this woman. his best friend's mom, and he'd been living there. He forgot to inform me in that aspect of it. And so we don't find that out for a while later.

But anyway, she just randomly calling these numbers, and she calls my informant's aunt up here in Colleen. Hey, we know he's an informant, don't you watch TV, informants used to get killed, snitches die, blah, blah, blah. And so she winds up talking to my informant's mother here in Austin. And so she calls my informant. He calls me, you know, panicking, like four in afternoon by this day. this time.

Now, I'm sorry, I'll come in early. So I'm going to work early, call the DA's office, start to the DA working intake. She said I'll take charges of felony retaliation. So all right. So I got off at midnight, so what time we got to report, everything ready to go. It was like two in the morning.

I get to the DA's office downtown Houston. I spoke to a prosecutor there who has since lied about this since then. But he reads my report. So clearly stuff he was alleging in tablo-trash documentaries. He's always lying because he said any day is going to read your report for he writes up a warrant, right? So we went over it, and then he types up the warrant and I signed it. And then it's like four in the morning.

And I said, oh, just because that judge is on call up 24. He wouldn't call a judge. I say, they've already pulled a gun on informant. They threatened to kill him. We need to run this warrant. So you're trying to get a warrant to go to the house of this woman, the suspect's mother, because she's threatening the family of your informant. Yeah. or directly in the informant.

Okay. And so they, so I leave the warrant there. I never take possession of the warrant. I mean, there's never been any argument over that. I bought my day shift deputy, my relief. And I said, hey, Tommy, I said, hey, go pick up that warrant running. He says, I got it, man. So I go home and go to sleep.

About 10 o'clock in the morning, my beeper goes office, the DA's office. I call on it's Tommy, my relief, the day shift deputy, it relieved me. And he said, hey, I'm down here, the prosecutor, and she's pissed off. And the judge won't sign it because, said my name had been literally widened out. out wide out they used to have, which they used to do that back then. So anyway, I said, we'll just leave it there. Well, he was the prosecutor who's talked to you. So she's on my ass.

Why didn't you run this fucking warrant last night? You should take care of this. You need to talk to your coworker. You know, he wouldn't get a sign. So jump ahead. I came into work early that next night. Go to the DA's office, get the warrant, and take it to the judge at his house. And it's like midnight.

Judge signs a warrant, swear it out. I go back to the substation and go in there. and with a sergeant who, not to get into it, but I cannot possibly say as much negative stuff about the guy. I need to be sad. I'll even worth this coward. I'll walk in there, and I can cuss on here, right?

Yeah. Okay. I'll walk in there, and he inks that out of my hand. He goes, go run the warrant. I saw Johnny some deputies go with me, man. He goes, take Mike and Todd, one of these last names. Great guys.

To this day, to the hilt they back me up. Our stories have never wavered. guys ran the warrant with me. I told him, I said, hey man, I said, you need to go with this. There's drugs, automatic weapons, burglary ring, trying to kill an informant. You can get off your ass and go out there. And this sergeant had had issues, you know, over his cowardice. And what I'm bringing this up is this is the first sentence in the book.

A certain listening goes, what are you some kind of fucking pussy? Take their deputies to run the, we'll run the fucking warrant. And I said, you know, and me trying to get the sergeant to go, We all hated him, and he was worthless, and he was buddies with the Homicile Lieutenant who sets me up later. But he wouldn't go. He was literally too scared to go. And why would I want to get him to go with me to run a murder,

to run a warrant and murder somebody, bring a sergeant who I despised and vice versa? Right. And so I told him, I said, hey, man, you need to get more deputies out here besides the three of us to go run this warrant. You know? And then again, he said, what did you some kind of fucking pussy? Take, Todd Mike, go run the fucking warrant. So why would I, and I just went out there, so I didn't know these people. I didn't know the guys were with me.

We ate together a couple of times, breakfast like four in the morning. And now I'm trying to get more deputies I don't know to go in me to go commit this, you know, commit me, commit me, co-witness me, commit a murder. It sounds like zero sense, right? So actually I said, whatever, man. So these two guys, you know, they get up and we're walking out. And when I stopped from what that, and I actually picked up the phone and tried calling the suspect. Because I didn't know about her mental illness and I was threatening to kill people

whenever. I didn't know anything about this woman. You know, I figured being, you know, in a wealthy neighborhood, I had a lawyer because of sons of career criminal at that point. So I actually called, which I used to work for organized crime, and I've worked narcotics. I've kicked a lot of doors. And I think it started off the Breonna

Taylor shooting by this no knock warrant. This is why you don't knock on the door. The one time I did it, look what happens. This is why you do knock on a door before you? This is why you should do dynamic entry. I'm a firm believer in that. busting in there. Well, that's not how we did it. I tried calling her. I called her twice. We have the tape where there's two, where she wouldn't answer. They had the phone made answer

machines back then. And I was going to tell her, you could get what's called a no arrest bond. Like, you get your bonds and go pay the bond. You want to go spend a day in jail or whatever. And I figured, you know, just being a wealthy, you know, lady in the nice neighborhood. She's just made some stupid and ridiculous threats. Right. And so I was going to call and tell her just get your lawyer and come turn yourself in. I go get a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of bond now you have to go to jail. Why would I do that if I was going to murder, right? Like I said, we have the tapes, you know, for that. So we go out there, I brief the two guys with me, and they worked a different part of the district, so they weren't familiar of that

craziness going on in this woman. But we go out there, and we knew she'd call it 911 before many times, and she would open, let me preface this as we're going up to the house. I briefed these guys what's going on, and I don't know this about this woman at the time, because I just went out there. But in one stretch, she called 911, 34 nights in a row before I got, I went out there on April 3rd of 92. It was my birthday, I remember. And the deputy did that I relieved, who got moved and then fired over this, all these allegations I made

toward this woman was him, and we've talked to him, you know. But she would call 911, and deputies would get there, and she'd open door with nothing on or a thong or a nighty, you know. And she said this thing for police, obviously. And actually, she was married to a police chief, someone who pulled out in town in Louisiana. And she tried to murder him. And that's how hard her kid fled to Houston. I went from that.

But, yeah, so she'd pull that stunt. So then they put out a, the no deputies could go there, but we're all one-man units. So either, you know, I had to have two deputies respond to any call in the residence. This all happened before I got out there. And then the sergeant started going out there. And the lieutenant started going on. Then that captain goes out there.

And he admitted to federal trial, not to the trial, but to us standing in the parking lot, that he'd been banging that woman for 10 years. Right. Right. The captain of your unit. Yeah. And for the Houston, Harris County, Sheriff's Department. That's why she had his home phone number.

She could call him at 1.30 in the morning. He's in bed with his wife, right? All this has come out, man. And the documents will be two in a minute. But anyway, back with the actual scene, we get up there, so we go up there and so it's kicking the door. I mean, it's a nice house. We go up there and Todd, the other deputies with me,

he goes up to the front door with me, and I send the other deputy to the back door to schedule. here the back, right? So we go up there, start knocking on the door, you know, after four or five minutes. She comes the door and, yeah, yeah, slurred. She was on four drugs at the time. That's probably autopsy. Blasted out of her mind. But she came up to the door and she screamed and hollered and, you know, I want to see some IDs, who are, you know? And the deputy said, I'm deputy so-and-so, you need to open the door. I'm not opening a door. I want to see some ID. He's like, well, we can't slide it under the door. You have to open the door. You know, we're using all this

subterfuge, if it will, try to get open the door. She calls 911, excuse me. She calls the sheriff's department first, asking for my lieutenant. So I'm like, what? You know? And the sheriff's dispatcher saying, well, he's not on the shift, you need call back during duty hours, whatever. She calls them, I think, twice.

She calls 911. And she's saying we're trying to break in her house. And when she's hauling the phone, that deputy was with, Todd, he said, Mr. President, you know, open the door. This is Deputy Todd. and deputy vallis sheriff's office. Well, she hears my name, right? And she starts hollering on these tapes

or all this tabloid trash. She's screaming the phone, hollering. And I know this is being recorded, right? Obviously, you know. And so someone coming to murder whilst being recorded by the police, but nonetheless. But she says my name, and we look at each other. What the hell?

So I said, man, this is out of control. And we've been after a little over 15 minutes. So I walked, I told Todd, I said, I'm going to talk, bump the sergeant, that idiot sergeant on radio, get permission to force this door. which we didn't need to have permission. We had a warrant.

And I think it's policy now after this situation. But I go back to the, I'll walk over to the driveway. I'll bump that sergeant. I said, take tack eight, the back channel. It's not recorded. I said, hey, man, we've been out of 15 minutes. She's not refusing to open,

she's refusing to open the door. Do you want us to force entry or not? You know? And he's, I forget this guy, man. He says, it's a fucking felony warning. Kick the fucking door. So, man, what a dick, man. And why would I go get that sergeant permit?

What if he just said no? My whole murder scheme would have been out of the window, you know, again. So I go to the front, and I was a pretty good-sized dude there. Todd's way very much, still. I told Todd, I said, hey, Rezio said to kick the door. And it was these two very large, expensive-looking, like French-cut glass in it. And all you know, the doors opened outward. So Todd kicked the door, and it wouldn't budgeant.

And I said, there's no sense in, you know, tearing up this expensive door. I'll go around the back and Mike and I'll kick the back. you stay up here. So I round back with him, and we knocked on the door for a few minutes, nothing. What at this point, Todd up at the front door, sees a suspect moving through the glass,

the shadows, if you will. It's like it was dark in the house. But he could see her moving toward us, so he always asked, to let us know she's coming to you. And while he's coming around, I tell him, I tell him Mike that deputy, I said, kicked the door.

So he kicked him once, nothing. He hit the second time, the alarm goes off in the house. And still to say, if I'm watching a movie or whatever, when a house alarm goes off, it's still just a trigger, if you will, just like, oh, you know. I never forget that sound.

But he says, it's not coming down. It's hit it again. So he hit it the third time, the whole doorframe crashed in. And the interior of the house was absolutely destroyed at this point. Because the suspect that was shot, she was 46, 43, and her husband was 56. He had left her for their teenage illegal alien made and had a kid with her. You can't make this stuff. Quality people.

You cannot make this stuff. Quality human beings. Yeah. But anyway, so he was out, he was living with her somewhere. Right. So anyway, the door goes in because it was all trashed. You know, we had her flat. It was dark.

We had her flashlight. And Mike tripped and fell over the trash in a little utility room. So doing as I was trained to do, and I trained people, I jumped up, put me number one in the stick. With that front door, it got in, when Todd kicked it, he would have probably shot her. He'd been the first one in. And if the lawyer went to tripped, you know, and, fallen. I had to protect him. I went over him. If he wouldn't have fallen, then,

he would have probably shot the suspect. You know, if I devise this plan, I'll met, so what happened? Anyway, so we get in, I clear everything. I look to the right, the large living room, and there's a door on an open door, which led to the bedroom suite. I see the suspect clear it from right to left. She wouldn't go in it, but so we'd beeline it, which is a big issue. I'll be, oh, why'd you run straight to the bedroom? Well, yeah, if you see the suspect, you're not going to go, why are you going to search the rest of the house? So I came in the door,

door open on back like that and I leaned in I see a suspect or gun in her right hand and your right elbow on her hip and I tell her to have my flashlight up and I'm a Glock and I said uh I said drop the gun drop the gun and she never says a word she turning goes like this and we're 11 feet apart pointing guns each other I told her a third time you know because the weapon was indexed it went on the trigger at this point you do literally slow down everything slows down and tunnel vision you know so she didn't have her finger on the trigger not this point okay and then yeah because uh I see that.

I saw like it hadn't just wanted to go, you know. But the only way someone's accused of their hands. Because already at this point, most cops all over the country in any state would have shot her and been completely justified. And Todd's statements, and in a recent interview with the FBI guy, I'll tell you about a minute. He said, the only thing I saw McGowan do that night wrong, he should have shot her when he first leaned in there and shot the gun pointed at him. And he goes, I'd applaud her three times on the chest. That's him. He's kind of a real fool, a real fool, a dude.

Good guy, man. But, yeah, I tell her twice, I said, drop the gun, drop the gun. Well, she comes up with a gun. And her finger's still not on the trigger. I told her, said, drop the gun, and I'm going to shoot you. I was hollering.

Because, you know, the house alarm's going on, and everybody's hollering. The third time, I said, drop the gun, and she'll put her finger on the trigger, and I fired as I was trying to do. I fired a three-round burst. And, uh, oh. You hit her in the chest?

Yeah. Yeah, right. The proof her at least her, nothing else she's pointed at me, because there was a bullet with a bullet skid across the garment she's wearing. And it struck her right in the center. And I was fired as hard fast as I could, you know, and had a custom-built Glock. But the first round struck her right here.

And then she kind of moved in bullet two, following one, struck her in her right arm, then went through, exited here and went into the chest, but it was a non-lethal wound. And then as I was backing up in the third round, we said the cable converter boxes on top of the TV. back in the day. But it hit that, deformed a bullet, and it literally ricocheted a slight angle. And she already fell into that one. And she was going down.

It struck her across here, across the phase, non-fated woman. But she pretty much killed her instantly from when I read. The chest shot. Yeah. Okay. And it was all instantaneous. And was that the first time you'd ever discharge your weapon? That's somebody, yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Been close many, many times. Uh-huh. But it was just, you know, the, what's our thing? And if I had gone in there and she didn't have the gun, there was a mortar plot again. But you have to understand, this suspect escalated this at every possible level.

She stepped it up, stepped it up, stepped it up, stepped it up. She should have made her threats. You know, she should answer the phone, you know, trying to call her. She's just like a normal person to open the door, you know, and then grabbed the gun, then ran, then pointed at me, then we'll put it down, you know, and then put her funeral insurance, started to fire it. The suspect escalated this. She had every opportunity to stop this from happening. You know, and she forced a situation. Right.

That's why this is so crazy. It seems so out of, uh, out of the ordinary that you would get charged for murder. Mm-hmm. A cop, a sheriff. First degree murder, yeah. First degree murder.

So they said you premeditated it. Right. The loophole, they, yeah, fantastic. The loophole that they, uh, if you will, that they got me, they said, they said that lied to get the warrant. I mean, there was no contention that you had the firearm.

Right. You know, there's two guys that were with me. Yeah. You know, after, you know, the fire the shots, I know Mike's behind me. I don't know Todd's behind him. But da-t-da-tow. And then my immediate emotion was,

doing it to the warrant. My immediate emotion, emotion was anger. I mean, just a split second. And they made a big issue because I did look at Mike right next to me. And I was like, fuck. You know, I told her, man.

I told her, you know. Well, at trial, they're like it was winked. Like, we weren't even friends. I mean, we ran calls together. We never socialized off duty or anything. But they may look like it was like a wink, wink. And I, hey, you heard me, right, bro? Hey, you got me on this, right?

But nothing like that, man. Pure fucking panic. Chaos. Okay. And they said you lied to get the search warrant. Like you said that you made it up that she had threatened your CI. Correct. Did you have any proof to the contrary?

Yeah, we had the witness. Yeah, we had the witness statements. I called his mother. When I talked to the first prosecutor, then I'd get the warrant, she was here in Austin. I found the mother. And because the son couldn't remember her address. So I called Austin PD. They kind of knew it when they found her.

And she called me. And I specifically asked her. Same question you always asked somebody in the situation. I said, do you think her name was Susan Wyatman? And I asked the mother. I said, if you were spoken to Susan White, and she goes, yeah. She goes, I've talked to her. My son hanging out there.

And he goes, I think she's fucking crazy. And these are just like motorcycle method people. But she said, and I said, do you think that Susan White has the ability to have any kind of injury or death your son or have it done? She goes, yes, I do. You know? And I said, I'm going to get a warrant. I'm going to pick her up.

And she goes, that's a great relief. I've told my son he needs to get out of here. Under what charge? So you got this warrant? Felony retaliation. Okay. She was threatened a witness or an informant in a criminal investigation. So how often?

How soon after the shooting did you get arrested? The shooting was October, I mean, I'm sorry, August 25th and 92. And immediately, my lawyers, my union lawyers came out there. And it was, at the crime scene, there was, we'll get to the aspect of the war. There was no videos, no pictures, no, they did nothing. The crime scene investigators showed up that night. He'd been like the commissary guy in the jail. It says, who you knew back then?

Hey, you'll be a crime scene investigator? Well, yeah, man. no pick did nothing you know and so um done that's been a lot of trial but immediately something's going on with the they take your weapon after you get involved in the shooting that's just sop ballistics so you get called three nights later to come pick up my weapon and was a same crime scene investigator you know and something came out to suspect's weapon because it was a chrome plated pistol about the fingerprints she was her fingerprints weren't on the gun aren't right on a chrome plate because there's latent prints or ones off like dust or whatever right the patent

plant, patent, but that she can see her name, like on glass, you can see a thumbprint. I said, what do you mean her prints? I said, my finger prints are on there. Because after the shooting, we approached her, I reached her, and the gun was under her right hand and her right knee, and, uh, deput, Todd, the other deputy, he was on top. We didn't know she was, she was, she was on waterbeds, she'll move, and we know, she was not dead. And, uh, you know, we both see the gun under her right hand. I reached my pinky, so I told the crime scene out three nights later, I said, well, how do you explain that. And he said, well, she was so high on something on drugs that she wouldn't

secreting enough amino acids to leave fingerprints. I'll have nothing to do with fingerprints. I said, how do you explain my prints aren't on there? Well, you're just all jacked up on adrenaline that, you know, if you're on adrenaline, you're jacked up, you're sweating, you know, sweaty palms on it. So I call him a lawyer the next day. Hey, something's up, man. He just went down to him from there. And a grand jury in a police shooting, it average maybe four to six hours. You want to tell your story. I'm going to go. And mine dragged it on for six weeks.

They brought my wife there, threatened to put her in jail if she didn't testify, which they can't make your wife testify against you. Can't make anybody testify. And then they were bringing in, nobody had anything to do with the shooting, you know? And I was divorced for a period back then.

This is the 80s and the 90s. It was this culture, which probably still is. They brought on girlfriends I'd had, you know, and they were like calling me, what do they want to talk to me about? I don't know what to do with that shooting. They brought on people out of it. arrested five, six, eight, nine years before. How many people are arrested?

But the, said the jail and put in prison a lot. But, uh, so, uh, I got entitled on October 28th of 92. And before I went down there testified, uh, I went down and testified, uh, a few days after I testified, I get a call from a patrol bureau major, a good guy, my major or the patrol bureau. And he kind of wished to me and he goes, hey, can you hear me? And I was at my house. And he goes, hey, uh, you He didn't come in in Internal Affairs. I said, all right, and he was bringing a lawyer. All right.

So I called my union lawyer. He was a retired Houston PD sergeant, a great guy. I called him. He said, hey, look, man, they're probably going to, because this is a ride of election time when the sheriff and the DA. I was just going to ask you that. They're accusing of each other being corrupt. It was a big, I got sucked in that political. Oh, okay.

Because that's got a huge, local politics is a huge part to play in how much you get sentenced. If you're a defendant, if you get charged or not. out with a crime. So that's what was happening. Basically, there was a corruption scandal going on amongst the politicians. You said politicians or DAs? Well, they're both. They are politicians. Right. DAs that were running for district attorney. At that point, he's passed now, Johnny Holmes. He was hard-ass, man. And then the sheriff, he's passed on. It's what he say his name. Johnny Cleveland, and they despise each other. They're always accusing each other of being corrupt, you know, toward each other. Right.

So I get in the shooting a few weeks before election time, you have it, man. So it's like make an example of him. Yeah, the DA was apparently trying to make the sheriff look bad. I see. But anyway, so I call my lawyer, you know. He said, hey, they're going to give you one, two, three days, fishing days. We used to call it. We get you money back.

Don't worry. I said, all right. So I go pick him up his office. We go into the Internal Affairs office at the Detective Bureau. It was in a separate building from Central. I walked in there, and my lawyer is behind me. And that Major's at the internal affairs captain and sit in his desk, IED captain here,

homicide captain there. This old detective, a big old heavy set, old guy I've never seen since before. And Major said, hey, you have a seat, McGowan's yesterday. He goes, I don't know how to tell you this, man. I was like, what? He said, they had an out of a silent indictee.

For what? He said, for murder. I literally felt like I was struck her off the chest with a baseball bat, literally. Wow. I didn't say anything. What are you going to say? You know, because despite all this tablood trash bullshit,

whatever, documentaries, other books, whatever. That had impeccable reputation. My record speaks for itself. Chief of Police accommodations, a lot of saving mail, civil service combinations, all above average. And all that was shot down right then. And my concern was, what's this going to do to my family, you know? But when he said that, my attorney jumps up with,

where he was standing behind me, you're not handcuff him. You're not handcuff him. You're not handcuff him. No, no, no. I never forget this old deputy, this whole detective, he said, let me tell you something again. He was, I'm near 46 years, man. He said, I've done 42 years in internal affairs and homicide hundreds of shootings, hundred police shootings this is the cleanest fucking shoot I've ever seen.

He said, you had a warrant signed by a judge. You know, two deputies are with you. She didn't really know or witnessed the whole thing. The suspect's gun, where she purchased illegally, they found it in the box or the receipt, the ATF form 4473, where she had lied because she's a convicted felon, drug addict, psychiatric,

in and out of mental institutions, escaped out of middle institutions, lied. You did the world favor. Well, then, well, I can't see it. We're all thinking it, though. Well, also, her own son, a little turd, he testified

that his mother bought the gun to quote, blow Ron's fucking head off. That was her husband's name. She bought the gun to murder her husband. Wow. The husband that ran off with the teenage nanny. Right, Roger that. And then the detective said and told me, he's the one

who got the statement from the son about the murdering. Wow. And the morning of the shooting, back up to a split second, my lieutenant, and my had a good captain, my captain, and my lieutenant, they called the son and said, hey, your mother's deceased. But after the shots were fired,

the two other deputies go upstairs to clear the house, and the son was supposed to be no bonded on his charges. While he was there, we still don't know. But they bring him out, and I'm a little bastard to look to me kind of smirks, right? And then, but in all his taboy trash, and they're saying that when he came down handcuffed, handcuffed, just poor little boy in his underwear.

And he came down handcuffed, and we were laughing. And I was smirking in about his mother. There was no laughing or smirking. What do you mean tablet trash? What are you talking about? Documentaries, books. You're in the papers. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, some biography, history, I-D-Channel, and crazy tablet trash books. It's all just bullshit. Because all this stirred up right the same, in elections and all the stuff. I just got sucked in this crazy storm, if you will. It's incredibly unlucky, man. Yeah.

But when they arrest me at that point in the Detective Bureau, they don't handcuff me. And we're getting like five or six cool cars, just plain clothes cars. We drive down to central jail. Well, I don't even go through booking. I go into the ID captain's office. He's an old guy I'd never seen before. I'm sitting there like this, you know. And they brought the fingerprint thing on the camera.

I remember the captain looking at me and he goes, you know something around? You and I made history in Texas. I said, what's that? He's, we're the first police officers who were being died on the line of duty's shooting, which now it's like a twice a week thing. And I said, well, how to work out for you? And he goes, 36 years ago, I'm still here.

It'll work out, don't worry, man. We know what's going on. A little bit of we know what's coming. So, yeah. You said people are getting cops getting indicted all the time now for shootings? Yeah. Because of cameras, because of body cams.

Well, reverse. The body cameras are saving officers. He says, all these people clamoring and hollering for body cameras. What a bunch of dumbasses? That's the worst thing. the bad guys could get or body, you know, body-worn cameras. Well, I think it keeps more situations honest, I feel like. Yeah. Whittones down a lot of people, I'm sure.

But on justified shootings, what sure are? Because today's culture, as you well know, as far different was 30, 40 years ago. You know, this country's out of control, man, on both sides. You know? And I've gone from, you know, I was brought up a good Christian home conservative. Hell, yeah, Republican.

it. Man, not that, I'm neither side nowadays, be honest with you. I consider myself a conservative, libertarian constitutionalist. Good. I kind of do too. And look at, you know, you know, you've got a good old boy and a Yankee kind of agreeing on all the same issues. Yeah. So that makes me sick to watch social media. Yeah, I mean, if you're talking about like Republican Democrat, you're a brainwashed loser. It's us versus them. It's us versus the, I'm in the same book. The people that give all our money to Israel and have flock cameras in every corner and want to make it illegal to speak out. I mean, that's the enemy. So, I'm basically talking-

I'm sitting here in a liberal city of Austin with a Yankee. I'm agreeing with you, man. Of course. My dad had a lot of his grave. Have you heard me say it? That's true. You know, you can't blame them. It's like I try not to blame the boomers, even though they have access to all the information we have

now. But like your father read newspapers that were owned by 30. three companies and could only talk about things within a certain parameter. So now you really have no excuse, because it's all out there. All the information's out there. There are no more secrets.

Three million Epstein documents that they just fuck you. We're not gonna release them, but yet you have to go to prison because you're a civilian, you're a peasant, so you can go to prison, but not for me. I can break the law all I want. So this only leads to violence. If you can't vote your way out of it, and we're extremely close to that. And that's what I fear coming up is that the electoral process won't work, that they'll just say,

hey, you know what, where they're going to steal these elections blatantly and there's nothing you could do about it. And by the way, we're building data centers that are going to, and the flock cameras are going to give your information to the data centers. And if you try to make a move, try to buy a gun to defend yourself from the cops, we're just going to come kill you. There is no more, it's either democracy works or it's going to be violence. And we're extremely close to that.

It's teetering toward violence. That's for sure. And cops should go to prison for unjustified shoots. I really believe that. Like, I think there should be an even higher standard because you're the people that we're entrusting. Just like how politicians need to be locked up immediately for insider trading. for treason, again, like merging our military with Israel's. I mean, these people need to be probably executed

because we're giving you the power. We're the vulnerable ones, right? You work for us. But this is one of those situations where any reasonable person would be like, what the, this is the one? This is the cop that you're gonna lynch? It's crazy.

I'm sorry it happened. So you get arrested. You bonded out. for nine years. Yeah. Which is wild. They wanted my bond. It'd originally be 100,000.

And the judge would wind up, I wound up in the right judges in the 232 District Court in Houston. He was retired. I want to retire. He was a veteran, a P-O-W in World War II, older guy. My bond, they won $100,000. The judge said, 10,000. You know, I never sat foot in jail. I went home.

You know, got my lawyers and my, I kept my union lawyers. They're good guys, ma'am. But they were just, dude, they were lied to. They were previously with prosecutors at the Diggs office. So they're just lied to. But, man, they were just good dudes. They're outgunned way over their heads, way over their heads. Who do you think the main characters were pushing to try to get you, like, railroaded to get convicted?

I know exactly who they were. You don't have to say names, but who were they within the... There was a... When I hired on the sheriff's part, I hired him as an instructor. And another deputy, he came from another agency. agency also. And it was like, I think I ate of us. But he just took a dislike to us because he was just a loudmouthed, slovenly bully. Everybody despises this guy, very corrupt. And he was in this a faction of the sheriff's part of time that was well known for corruption. When you say corruption,

what do you mean? Just setting people up, screwing over officers, you know, taking kickbacks, you know, from criminals. Yeah, from criminals, yeah. And I mean, this kind of set me up. We got as and how we got his internal affairs file was crazy. But man, some of the stuff he did. A deputy, one of the calls he responded to, this is his character. A deputy got drunk in an apartment complex where he lived. Somehow he goes in his house,

it tries to rape this girl in there. Well, the mom calls 911. So this guy who set me up, we can use his first name, right? John. John, this one is on patrol. John shows up, he gets a call. He gets there and sees him.

I know this deputy. So this, I'll take care of this. He's just trying to get him out of there. He's not going to file charges guy. That's the first degree felony. You have a life sentence. You're breaking her house with the attempt to commit a felony, particularly sexual assault. This was a cop.

Yeah, he's a drunk off duty deputy. Yeah. And so the mother, the mother gets arguing in John. He's trying to punch his mother and knocks her out. This is the mother of the sexual assault victim and the burglary victim, right? He's just trying to get his buddy, the deputy out of there. And so, and we have the complete file on this. And so the mother calls internal affairs.

And you know what happened to him? Nothing. They cleared it unfounded. And another particular call stood out. It was, there was a lady on the, she was at a bus stop, some kind of disturbance that she's one who called the police. And she had an infant in her hands. And I don't know the extreme details, but she was getting loud or something.

And so Denno decides to arrest the complainants, the victim of the crime. We had a little, like, four or six-month-old baby in arms. And he yanks the baby out. the baby hits the ground, beats up the mom and arrests the mother. Of course, goes internal affairs. You don't happen to them? Nothing. Nothing.

How was that possible? How were there not federal indictments coming down on these cops? Because if you try to complain on something like that, and like, he was so well connected with this one major that was running this. In Texas, you have the sheriff, then you have the chief deputy second in command. And then you have majors that are over like patrol bureau, detective bureau, you know, investigations, whatever. And it was just major. And he had this click of cobble, if you will, cabal.

Right. Of just these assholes, man. Yeah. Like I was telling you pre-interviewed, last night I got a call after I was on another podcast. A narcotics sergeant from the Sheriff's Department called me. And right after my deal happened, they went after him because he bucked up to him. They wrote up a bogus warrant, tried to get him to sign it, you know, run it, and you wouldn't do it. He wanted something in 10 years in prison.

And then, but during the, uh, but during the, uh, That's where we, I get indicted. I go back home, we start the legal thing. And at this point, man, I had, because the suspect was from Louisiana, and I lived in a different county. I lived about an hour and a half out of Houston. There was crawfishing in her mailbox. I had brake lines cut on my truck, tires cut.

By who? House is shot up. This was happening out there. And so, but on the other hand, I didn't get my mail, and there'd be a videotape or a file in there. People were trying to help me, you know, also. But during that time period, this prosecutor, we'll call him Ed. That's his name.

He was his first. He had this fixation on my wife, and he would stalk us all the time. And she was managing a restaurant. He would come in and drink, chain spoke, staring at her. I called the sheriff by getting a strain order against him. It just got crazier and crazier, man. And then they'd go to my kids' schools. They'd have been in private school.

Try to talk to the kids. they're like in second, third, fourth grade, you know. And I had an enlisted phone number. My brother was in law enforcement, and the DA was giving them their numbers, you know. And then it just got crazy. And finally got so out of hand or a lot of dangerous stuff was happening. My judge called, called me into his office, my lawyers. And he said, look, he said, I have concern about you and your wife's safety.

And he goes, I have grave, this is a good judge. And he said, I have grave concern with your children's safety. I'm getting into what's going on. I said, yeah, exactly. Now, why are you, you're being harassed by cops? why they're private because they're because they're not worried that you're going to you're going to expose them like you're the one that's being railroad it's right well also we had officers helping us out you know giving us stuff but they're a private detectives got investigators got involved because my family

my dad is on the old company where they saw money and the family of the suspect they had not had anything to do with her for more than a year as for other witnesses because they're like we've had it with her man She was drug addict, criminal. Now her son's a complete lunatic. And then she was suicidal, homicidal. But they, and it was crazy. But the judge said, do you have, do you have relatives out of state? You know?

And I said, yeah, sure. I said, but can we go to Montana? He goes, I don't care where you go. You've always been to hearing as long as you're going to come back with hearing. Yes, sir. So my wife and I, we call my mom and dad. and we only had three kids at this point. So the kids went and stayed at my parents' ranch.

And then my wife, I drive all the way to Montana. We get up there, find a place to live. We're going like 10 days, you know, 2,400 miles, whatever. We're coming back, we stopped in a Butte, Montana. It's just some little pine lodge in or something, spend the night. We're going to get up like four next morning and start back. It's like a three or four a day drive. She's going to take a shower, so I go to get us hamburg or something eating in the room.

and I come back and I see three Medicine Boe County Sheriff units Sheriff's cars pulling out I don't happen so walk out of my room the doors kicked down

my wife's completely hysterical soaking wet nothing but a towel around her and it's like five minutes to calm her down what the hell happened when she called her sister in Houston

and the DA had an illegal trap and trace on her phone and she told her not where hiding the judge told us to go you know and my bond's been across the street from me so it's nothing with a bond

I was under no restriction I could do whatever I want. Right. LeBond. But, well, this prosecutor, Ed and the DA investigator, Steve, who was buddies with the homicide lieutenants, sent me up. They called that Sheriff's Department up there. A bunch of redneck deputies up there, you know, all big city DAs calling me.

They told him that I was a convicted murderer, and I'd kidnapped my wife to take her to take her to Montana and murder her and bury her mountains. So that didn't go over well. So she's hysterical, man. Jesus Christ. Yeah, all this is well documented, plenty of witnesses, especially since. We've been to this FBI agent for last three years and investigated this. But did you call the feds at any point while you're getting,

because that's what I would have done. I would have tried to get the FBI. Well, actually, my lawyers went to the FBI. About the shooting itself, they said, hey, you know, we're not getting whatever House County is going to do. We know it was a clean shoot. They said, we're not getting involved in any. Don't worry about us coming after him for anything.

But my wife is so upset at this. I'm going to drive home with her, you know. So I put her on a plane far back to Houston. She goes up to plane in Houston, and how do they know this? We don't know. But the prosecutor is going to ask, Ed, and Steve and John, the homicide guy, and the de-investigator, they're waiting at the airport.

Why steps off the plane my mom and sister there to get her? You know? And they go to tell my wife that, no, you have to go with us. She didn't know she didn't have to go, you know. And so they take her downtown. They're all upset, you know. And he's showing, a prosecutor showing her

autopsy pictures of the suspect, and this is what he's going to murder you. We know his type, you know. He's not, this is what he's going to do to you. You know, you need to testify for us trying to turn around me, you know. He says it's dirty, man. So we come back to Houston as that situation went down. And then I finally got a job.

I had six jobs than a year. And every time I get a job, the DA, the prosecutors would call whoever I was working for. So I'm pretty sure I can get a job, you know. But they, I got jobs doing stuff. I had no idea how to do. I just taught myself into it. But they, they, they, uh, they, uh, that prosecutor would call these companies. They, he's a psycho, you know, convicted murder, you know, and I'm convicted of anything.

I could be in fired, so I started being an entrepreneur. So I was an entrepreneur for like eight or nine years. But another event that happened on that, I was, I had a job and I was, uh, I was in Birmingham, Alabama. And this is like a few days for Christmas. And I'd call home every night, you know, check on my wife and kids. Call home, Michelle's hysterical. He was in the house. He was in the house.

Like, damn, what are you talking about? Ed, the prosecutor. Because he stalked us all the time. We'd be in a restaurant, Benningens, or what they'd say that back then. We'd be eating in the family. He'd be sitting in his old truck, waving in his stuff, taking pictures of us.

It stalked us incessantly. Were you allowed to have a gun? Negative. Well, yeah. Yeah, back then would. You can be under indictment, and you can't purchase a firearm, transfer a firearm,

but you can't leave the state with a firearm. But you can have one in your house? Yeah. Okay. So your wife could have one or something. Okay. That's crazy, man. Yeah, I didn't carry a gun back then.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, this is a psycho. You put something in those boots right there, partner. Yeah, Roger that. But when I was in Birmingham, Alabama, when I called, it's a few days for Christmas, right? She's hysterical. Who was in the house?

Ed was in the house. What? And, yeah, and she told me, he knocked on the door. She said he had been tied in the bush. It was summer, it was Christmas, so it gets stark early. She took my, and he was stalking her. He took my,

she took my children to her sister's kids, their cousin's birthday party, the same neighborhood. She comes in and parks and goes in, and she said he had to have been hiding the bushes. She said, one in five seconds. Somebody's banging on the door. And I always told her, keep the doors locked,

use the people. She didn't at this one event. Well, she almost doing, he was like six-thry, bulgy-eyed, patchy hair, patchy beard. 1,000% of rapists.

Not a chance. If you saw Santa's street corner, he said, that dude straight, a baby raper, man. But it's creepy. If you're a male, If you're a male, the one thing you don't want to be called is a creepy. By the way, these are the kind of people, local cops,

these are the people that license plate reading companies like flock, flock cameras. These are the people who are getting literally all of our information. These are the people that are getting that, that are watching us 24 hours a day. They know where your kids are going to school. Exactly. Where they play. Well, they have flock cameras across the street from playgrounds.

these are I mean I fucking hate cops you're a good guy thank you yeah you're not a cop bro you're a fucking crook you're a convict bro

you just came off a 20 former officer you know I tell people you know say oh you should police me out I'm legally retired you know because I was retired due to legal issues

for sure I'm legally retired police officer did any of you did any part do you think about running I mean nine years on bail yeah we sit here in a second but let me

back in real quick, when he broke into the house and all that, he was telling her that, and here's how he got him. He told my wife that he'd been living with a woman for 17 years and she left him and that he had a 17-year-old daughter

who recently died. There's no way we would have known that, you know? And he's not to spend Christmas with his wife. And he tells my wife that he can make arrangements so I can be in jail for Christmas

and he can go spend Christmas and a wife and kids. Oh, hell on us. So I'm calling my lawyer. He said, get your ass back down here. So anyway, they go down to the judge. Judge calls Ed, prosecutor in there.

He denied the whole thing of the more. called that night. And then we finally we get the original first cell phones. Every time we change the cell phone numbers, he'd get them because he could subpoena this stuff. But yeah. So anyway, after first trial, I got 15.

Judge said, no one put in prison. Hang, hang on, so you didn't think about running. Like, did you really... At one point, I was about to haul ass. Where would you have gone? Mexico, one and eight four hours away. Hell yeah. And I'll tell you when this happened.

So anyway, it was just... The appellate was just absolutely insanity for all his years. And we won four out of four appeals. Okay, so you go to trial what year? February of 94. Did they offer you a plea deal? No.

I wouldn't have told it. In my second trial, they called my attorney, wrote for the trial, and said they gave me, they filed settled for 20. Okay. And exactly what I told him, I see, you can tell him to fuck himself, that I'm not, I'm not pleading guilty to class the misdemeanor littering for leaving the brassly in the floor from the rounds fired. Right. My lord says, that's exactly what I told him.

Okay, so you go and you got a jury trial? both times correct okay um did you feel like you got so the first trial is a hung jury now the first trial when voir dire's when he picked the jury and had all-male jury except for one white female and you know you always asked the both sides do you know anybody in defense prosecution you know the judge or anything about you have family or police officer well this the only female not only she lied about being when we have her form i'll get to the papers here documents she not only lied just didn't say she was an attorney, she's probably the DA's office for that freaking prosecutor, Ed.

She worked at them with the DA's office. She's on my jury. So during the trial, it was just a joke. The Steve, the DM investigator, he got caught flagrantly aggravated perjury, man. It was, I had no chance, none. Because I did nothing wrong. So there wasn't like arguing over the ballistics, forensics. It was a character assassination.

And I don't know what she did before this, but like in your podcast, business. There's probably there's thousands of guys, you know. You're all the big guys, but there's my guys that just don't like you because they don't like the way you smirk or where you're watching. It's actually mostly my fans that don't like me. Other podcasters love me. Don't worry because I know some of your

buddies that have done podcasts with their fans don't like me. I write some of the comments. But there are a lot of positive comments, actually. But they, all the thousands of police officers I knew. I dealt with no, you know, all your friends are police officers. I had family are police officers. And then that's just

part of the culture you know and in a they found five four of them I just had personal issues with out of a thousand so what you know the fifth one was one of my partners is at the scene rush or arrested the suspects his mom showed up Scott great guy man he wanted him committing suicide over this after my shooting because he was a renegade man that dude was he was out there his dad was like a 40-year veteran there and he's a good guy but he's kind of rowdy well um After my shooting, there's a chase going down on a main thoroughfare through North Harris, through our district.

And in Texas, we have constables. You have like your sheriffs, like the county, then you have the city police from the city. And the constables are divided into precincts. And the constables out, it was Precinct 4, for the consuls, but District 1 for us, northwest Harris County. These constables are chasing a roll and stolen with some gangbangers in it. And Scott sees the chase, so he jumps in, then get on the radio. He said, hey, I'm, you know, I'm assisting in precinct first.

going in pursuit or whatever. The bad guys crack up. They wrecked their car and they get out. Everybody starts shooting at each other. Well, somehow, because they're constables, the bad guys get away. Well, the next day they find that rolling stolen, well, they did 14-old gangbanger

with a 45-caller bullet back of his head at Greenspoint Mall. We also called Guns Point Mall after the gangs took over it. And so of course, who investigates that? The guys that set me up, right? The DA's office. So they're talking all these, and my friend Scott, never gets on radio,

I got to chase. I fired shots and nothing. He was kind of a renegade. But very likeable, very charismatic guy. But anyway, so the consul said, hey, we didn't, none of us have 45s. So some consul said, well, there was a deputy there, which was Scott. He carried a 45. So these prosecutors go talk to Scott.

So here's a deal, man, you testify against McGowan. We're going to indict you on murder and charge you for shooting that kid, right? So all of a sudden, as they call it now, it's ghosting. He went blank on us. One talked to my lawyers, me nothing. We can figure out why. Did he actually shoot that kid? Yeah, well, everybody's shooting at each other.

Okay, but it would have been justified. It was, they were shooting at the cops. Yeah, he was shot back in the head, which doesn't matter. But even if, because Scott knew, these prosecutors had, the guys who watched me have a history of jamming up police officers. Their goal in life was a due to the officers. That was, they're just sort of, you know, some. Fascinating. This is the weirdest corruption.

Yeah, this is the public integrity of me. This is the weirdest corruption I've ever heard. Because normally, we're using. to like, okay, these dirty prosecutors are setting up innocent people or they're over prosecuting criminals, right, giving them charges that they don't deserve, hiding evidence. I mean, how many times have I heard that in Texas? Oh, hey, they just, they just electrocuted a guy to death. Turns out the prosecutor had evidence that would have exonerated him during trial. They, of course, never suffer any consequences. But these cops, these prosecutors, rather,

their business is putting cases on cops. That was their dad. But it's not like helping the, it's not like justified. This is not like they're not heroes. You know what I mean? As I was telling you before the interview, this friend of mine, Marcus, the last name, he's got three 40-year sentences and a 10, he got 10 years first. The gentleman will get him a 10-year sentence and sitting in prison, and I ran into him in prison.

And sitting in prison, he got his case overturned. Going out of law, he did his family, how money for a lawyer? He got it overturned. Wow. So he comes back to let him go. Oh, no, we're going to indict you. They indicted him because his ex-wife was pissed off at him and talked to a little, like, four-year-old girl,

and he's saying, well, he touched me three times. They indict him three times and give him 40 years for all that just because of his ex-wife. And now the ex-wife and the daughter, now they're saying, my mom was pissed off, didn't really happen. You know what Texas says? I don't give shit. Because Texas is, especially like a domestic violence

in Texas, say you and your girlfriend getting a fight. Yeah. Or you have an argument. And she's pissed off and she calls him, you know, she's, hey, Johnny slap me. Well, you're going to jail. I mean, there's no, you just go jail. That's Texas. And so you're in jail for three weeks and she goes, you know, I was just pissed off, man.

He didn't, he didn't hit me. So there's what I tell her, okay, here's what we going to do? Either you committed perjury on your statement or you're going to commit perjury now, so you're going to go to jail either way. And so what are you going to do? You know? I'm not going to jail. Sorry, Johnny.

It's in jail for three years. Wow. They do that all the time. That's crazy. They do that all time. So somebody comes forward to admit to being, to lying to cops, to get somebody put in prison and they're like, well, you're going to have to go to prison then. Yeah, because you're lying to me now committing perjury.

If you write a statement saying that you're committing perjury. I mean, look, to be fair, I think people that do that should go to prison. Like even in Oregon when I was locked up, I met so many people that were like, yeah, she said I hit her. Yeah. And I didn't. And now I lost 10 years of my life. If you lie on people to go to prison, if you lie on people and they get sent to prison, and then it turns out that you lied, you should have to go to prison.

But, yeah, the way they do it is, it seems like in Texas, they want to make sure that you don't come forward and be honest. Like, they want your ass sitting there. They don't want cases overturned. They don't want any problems. They want you in there. Yeah. If you go to prison in Texas, your chances of getting within an appeal are slim and none. Yeah.

Because in Texas, guilt and innocence plays, well, let me tell you this. Right, wrong, law, order, you know, honor, guilt, innocence. That plays no part of going to prison or jail. I tell you right now. If they want to, they're going to, they're going to fuck you, man. Okay, so you're- They'll put you in prison. Your cop friend, all it took was the word of a four-year-old girl to get him put in prison

for 40 years? Yeah, now she's like 25, 26. But how are they doing this? You have to go to trial. Are these just jurors that are I mean, look, the people of Texas have, they've put Ted Cruz

in power for 20 years. So you can't, I mean, these are obviously cretons. These are subhuman fucking brain dead idiots down here. But they just, the jury just believes these people? Yeah. Let me tell how they do this. In Texas, the grand juries, I think they've changed

the law in a few years, just recently, within the last three or four years. Back then, you have this old judge. Most judges were old white guys, right? They picked the jurors, the grand jurors. So it's their neighbor, you know, their cousins, wives. People are retired. She's got a bunch of old white people in their jury, just like my jury, my grand jury. And I went in there, man, it was ridiculous because I wouldn't testify, you know. And actually there's pictures of me and they're testifying or illegally leaked out. But they, at the end, And they said, does anybody have any? When I was testifying, the prosecutor gives me a little Raven, 25 automatic with pink grips on it.

What's this? We need you to position how you were standing. This isn't the weapon she had. Well, that doesn't matter. I said, no, it does matter. If you look like a little pink toy, with pink grips on it, you know. But after I testified, the prosecutors, they said, Daniel of the grand jury is having a question for Deputy McGowan.

It's old white guy. He was like around the end. They're like a big, ill-shaped table. Staring him all the time. He goes, that's some questions. I said, yeah. He goes, why didn't you shoot the gun out of her hand? I said, why don't you go watch the stupid movies?

I said, hey, that's not even technically legal. What did he said, what? He said, why don't you shoot the gun out of her hand? He was pointing at me. I said, well, she's like this pointing at me, and if I would have missed the gun, I would hit her anyway. And she wasn't going to shoot. She could have flinch and shot us.

Because that split second, before I pulled that trigger, was shot through my head in that literally a split second. was she's going to gun me down and take out Todd and Mike because everybody had wise and kids and all. That was in that split second, I'm at the fire. You know, my lawyers never went after, they did self-defense, of course. They never went after defense of a third party.

That's also a defense of prosecution. I was protecting these guys. No matter what, I was protecting these guys. You know? So they never went after suicide by cop because back then that was kind of a little something, maybe something happens in that. But now it's a big huge thing.

Okay, so. But it was definitely suicide by cop. So you blew, for sure. So you blew trial, you lost your first trial. Correct. Okay. That's, I mean, I just... Yeah, when...

What are your lawyers doing, man? Why do they let everybody go to law school? I have a picture of me on the front page of Houston Chronicle. One lawyer, he started crying. Great, his name is Clint. He got assassinated, actually, on April 3rd, 2017. Not assassinated, yeah. But he...

Wow. My other lawyer, literally put you to the garbage can. You know, I hear my parents' client, whatever, I was like, fuck. But I knew, because we knew the law that if you had 15 or less, even on murder, you could stay out on bond. So my bond's bones were already there. What do you mean 15 or less? If you, up until, when this happened to me, if you had, no matter what your charge was, if you got 15 or less years sentenced to prison, you could stay on an appellate bond. But how did it?

So that was your sentence? Yeah, my sentence was 15 years. They gave me a day, other. It actually, if I had gone in prison then, back then, I'd probably done three or four years. I was going to say. So, in hindsight, that was a mistake staying out so long. Because if you just... If you just gone in right away, you know, you stayed out of trouble in prison.

Yeah, you would have been out. Well, I was facing a life sentence. Both... We're taking a gamble on life sentence to both trials. I could have got life or 99, you know? Because a murder is 5 to 99 or life. Right. But they...

Yeah. And then the judge called me up there, and he was like... You know, he was like... He called me up there. said, Mr. McGowan, he said, you need to get a good lawyer. You need to get a good appellate and get this take care of an appeal. And I remember, I don't mind why I said this. I said, who do you recommend?

He said, ethically, I can't recommend that, but your lawyers know who to call. So we walked out, go to pay phone, no cell phones. This is not a Friday afternoon. And I hired the best appellate lawyer you can get. Okay, so you actually filed an appeal while you were still out on bond. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, we appealed it. We appealed it. And it was on my birthday.

It was on my birthday, whatever. But it's exactly because my trial is in February. My birthday is April. First of all of April. On my birthday, three years later, we win the appeal. The court of appeals in Houston, the 14th quarter of appeals, overturned the case. Based off of what? What was the main argument?

Well, we had four, you know what a Brady violation is? That's basically the illegally well, they cheated and got caught. Yeah. We had 42 Brady violations, but what we had, the judge threw it for us on purpose, for appellate reasons. When the state goes first. and they didn't want to do an opening argument. So we're all like kind of, why would they not do that? And so they put on our case in chief, which is ridiculous.

And then they actually put our case in chief, was like three, four days. My lawyers called me like 1030 at night. They said, hey, we're gonna just, we're gonna not do anything. So what do you mean? You'll offend me. He said, they never put me on the scene during their case in chief, which technically they didn't.

didn't. So if we didn't in there and just said, we rest, they would have had it been a direct verdict, not guilty. I said, no. I don't want to get on a loophole. If I didn't know what's coming, hell yeah, you know. But I said, we're going to, you got to offend me. We got to clear me on this, man. So that just goes to show how innocent you were because it's so hard to win an appeal, as you said, especially in Texas. And the fact that you won, you know, within three years, four appeals. Okay, so you, the first appeal, You get the conviction overturned. Correct.

Then what happens? And I never went to jail. Get the conviction over turn. And the thing we did, because during the trial, the prosecution waived the right to an opening argument. So when the defense goes, after they do their case in chief, my lawyers are going to do an opening argument. And the prosecutors, they objected. We didn't, we didn't do an omit. They don't have a right to.

Which you have a federal and statutory constitutional right for an opening argument. That's part of trial. And so they, and then my lawyers have done. and the judge overruled our objection. So one of my lawyers here, and they're both on both sides are like this. They're like, don't say anything, don't say anything. You know, all right.

And that's, you only need one to get a return. We had all this other stuff. We store it. Okay, so I don't want to get mired in the details because we got to keep it moving. But so you win the first appeal. Yeah, and then the state appealed it to the Court of Criminal Appeals here in Austin.

We won that. And then the state appealed it back to the 14th Court of Appeals on a harmless error analysis, at that point, which changed the state and federal law, my case did. At that point, that's the same, we fucked up the prosecution, but it wasn't so bad that the jury would have found him not guilty,

hence the harmless error analysis. We won that. And then they appealed that, if you will, to a hearing in Blanc, when all 11 judges on the entire appellate courts here, and they all ruled in our favor again. And then we're not going to retry them. As soon as they did it, we're going to retry you.

And so at that point, I made the worst mistake in my life. Hiring a lawyer I hired. Okay, so they kept, is it the same dirty prosecutors the whole time that keep retrying you? How is that legal? If you're winning appeals, isn't it double jeopardy? Like, how can they keep retrying you? Well, if your case is over, excuse me,

because you don't have a final conviction until you lose all your appeals, right? So during that time, I wasn't a convicted felon. You know I've been found guilty. So there's no, it's not double jeopardy because it's just a weird law down here. Okay, so it's like, would it be like getting a hung jury winning a appeal? Yeah, if you get a hung jury, they can retry you. Right.

So the appeals effectively the same thing, right? Like it leaves you open. Yeah, somewhat, yeah. So it's not adjudicated. Correct. Just the verdict from the original trial has been overturned. Right, and they can try you again. I see.

And so. What the fuck? So all these years have gone on it. Yeah. They have such a hard-off. Nine and a half years. I was on a pellet bond longer than anybody in, probably now in the state of Texas. They just kept on and on it.

And this whole period, a lot of crazy stuff. My wife and my kids is crazy, man. But, yeah, so then we won all four. There's nothing else they could do, but retire me or cut me loose. Yeah. So, me, we're going to reach out. So that's what I made the biggest mistake in my life, hiring this lawyer that I hired. And then I won't say his name here because, but I haven't been many other podcasts.

Well, sure, you can say it. Dan Cogdale. Yeah. Dan Cogdale? He was a lawyer for Ken Paxson, the Attorney General. Also another shining individual. Fantastic guy. Sterling, stand-up people. Yeah, absolutely.

Pedophile. Yeah. You people in Texas vote for these guys. I mean, you deserve all the fucking, I hate this state. I'm moving back to California as soon as my lease is up. I'm about to haunt ass myself. Yeah. Anyways.

But anyway, I go in there. I have a very wealthy uncle. And he said, I go talk to the top five lawyers in state. narrowed down at three, I'll cut the check. And so the first one went to is my appellate lawyer, brilliant lawyer. But he wanted a million dollars cash up front, non-refundable retainer, and he said,

it's going to run a lot more than that, and you're going to have to pay it. We couldn't argue with him because he won everything. Yeah. You know, he's like a PhD dealing with kindergartes when it come to the DA and him in legal work. So my uncle kind of bought it that one, which you should have done because it would have been less money

I would never go to prison for he kept him. Because all the Brady violations, they couldn't have tried me again. I was going to say, like the jury or the grand jury would have looked at all the appeals that you guys won and just been like, this is bullshit, right? Well, I hired his lawyer, and we paid him $300,000 a front. And then he told me that that was his office building and all this stuff, his line.

Well, we find out, I had him for 11 months, and we hired him, what did I try, hired him in March of 2001. And we went to meet with him, light his ass off at everything. And he was this big loudmouthed brash. And we found out he had not practiced in a full year because he knocked up some titty dancer, an exotic dancer, gets her knocked up.

He gives her a million bucks to take his kid. He tells me this. That's what he's telling me. So we pay him. He said, hey, every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. beer at my office. And I live like an hour from there.

And we're going to discuss your case. Never did it. Never did it, man. I started headed down there, the secretary would page me. And we want to get the phones. Hey, can meet Dan at Carabas? He was friends with Johnny Caraba,

the restaurants. and Lahl Lovett, the senior actor dude. That's what I do. Let's go to Crabba. But at the third time I go down there, I think this isn't a book. Some issues are made about it. I go down there and his law partner and I in Cogdill,

we go to Crabbas. We're coming back. He pulls off his little, it was literally a trailer. One of these Japanese jackshacks. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. He pulls his parking lot. I think they're tied, but.

Yeah, whatever they are. Yeah. But anyway. We pulled in, I said, what are we doing, man? He was, we're going to get a hand job? I think he's kidding, right? This is before Better Call Saul, dude. Yeah, and this is when we handed him 300 grand, right?

There's a lot more money after it. But, oh, you ought to see his, I'm not pitching him. We'll just see his Instagram. They're like 2.7 million followers. I see that, and I just boil. But anyway, I said, are you fucking kidding me? We do this every day after lunch. We didn't get a hand job.

This is what you're doing my money? my family's money. And so he didn't go in because, you know, they realized that I want to tell us bullshit. And so for all these months, nothing. He was doing nothing. Literally nothing.

And then, where, at one time, the original trial was set for like a week before Thanksgiving, the week of Thanksgiving. And we're sitting there discussing cruelty one time. He was, hey, here's what we're going to do, man.

I think he's bullshit. Here, he's dead serious. I would do sit in his office and he would drink bourbon and smoke cigars and would go to Caravis. So we're saying, sitting out there and he said, here's what we do. We go in, we're going to pick the jury,

he said, I want you to look, because in my younger days, I was a dashing lad, you know. And he's Mr. GQ, back, he thought. He goes, I do this all the time. He said, don't stare at them or smile, but just, you know, kind of make eye contact with some of the jurors. I'm like, what? And he said, he goes, I do this all the time.

He goes, inevitably, during a trial, one, two, three of these female jurors, they'll give me a call, say, hey, you can go out, you know, whatever. and whatever, I'll give you a yes vote. You know, I'm not guilty. So I'm just looking at him. I said, that's your fucking trial strategy? That's, that's going to get me out of this? Because, yeah, do it all the time.

Worse every time. And you're already 300 grand in? Yeah. Between me, my family, in four of the very high-profile cases, at the same time, four of us had spoken. 11 months later,

and so when you go to trial Thanksgiving, because we're all playing at family flying in, he decides like a day ahead of time, we're going to put it off. And I'll just get the fucking thing over with me. man, you know. So my second trial started in February of 94. 11 days prior to trial, kids are at school.

And I sit there talking to my wife, you know. And I said, man, he's not doing shit. My wife's like, you got to go talk to your family. You got to tell him what's going on, man. You got to get another lawyer. And then the phone rings to pick it up, and it's Jeff. Cogdale's an investigator. And he said, hey, man, I need to talk to you.

And I hang up, look at my wife. I said, I'm fucked up. I'm fucked up near the office. Meet Jeff. I'm a long story short. we have a couple loan stars cheeseburger, a couple Marlboro's. He looks me and goes, you're fucked, you're going to prison, man. I just told Michelle

that. What the hell is he doing? He said, look, he goes, that's not Dan's office. The phone's about to cut off. He doesn't have money to pay the phone. The secretary he's hadn't paid in two months. He goes, he owes me $136 grand. He's done nothing on your case. 11 days prior to Toronto, right?

So I said, and the four of us who talked had given Dan, $11 million, just us four. Because he had these drug cartels and whatever. The guys that weren't drug cartels mafia who he represents. These are other just high-profile guys. And we'd given him $11 million. I said, what the fuck

did he do with $11 million in 11 months? He said, he's storned it up on his nose and blew all the hookers. Wow. Like, that's a lot of dope and horrors, right? Yeah. So I hauled us off his office. We had a confrontation.

So go to trial, blah, blah, blah. So you went to trial even with him. Yeah, 11 days. What did I do? I had 11 days. Right. Yeah, you know. So we go to, and he did not,

he talked to one witness in 11 months. That was my confidence informant, whose story flips, depending who he's speaking with. He met with my CI Sunday evening, I think it was on St. Patrick's Day or something. He met him on a Sunday evening at a restaurant, public restaurant, less than an hour on the Sunday night before my trial started Monday morning. And then, not one document, he's so blasted on it. And you know what, Dan? Do you don't assume, let's bring this out, man. Let's get it on.

You know, that's what I say. People ask me, think he's a sweet. I don't care. you know and all these other people all the lies they've done has he been sued for fraud I mean like defrauding his clients or disbarred or

does he suffered any consequences yeah I'll get that in a second but he I'm literally he didn't know the witnesses want to stand I literally have a legal pad and I'm right now and this is Mary Smith or whatever and the questions to ask him and he gets pissed off me during

quit doing you're making me make me look bad it's probably over my fucking life Dan and there are two deputies that were with me who did this very day go to guns with me, man. I mean, never stories were, to this very day, they backed me up. Okay.

Our stories are never wavered. We don't even like friends. Now we are since I got out. But Dan said, hey, don't talk to any witnesses, right? So, of course, Todd and Mike get off the elevator. I appreciate, man. It's 10 years later, right? I said, we already go, and they said, we don't know.

I said, what do you mean? I don't know. We've never even spoken to your lawyer. And then, Dan, what's up? I said, you never even talked to these guys, Dan? The guy who stood there and witnessed it? Well, I have their statement. That's, that was 10 years ago.

I would have said, go to the DA and let's make a deal. Well, I'll tell you what happened. So we go to trial. The trial's a joke. It's ridiculous. So anyway, at the end, and Dan told me he went to law school, this judge. They argued in front of the jurors. The prosecutors, the de-investigators were lying up there.

They caught them lying. But anyway, and they brought people in out of arrest. I didn't even know who the hell they were. People talked shit about me because I did nothing wrong. So it had to do something to jam me up. Ballistics from forensics, they had to get the character assassination. But when that judge says, does anybody have anything else to say, you know, and I was going to get up and say what he's, he's on court. Everybody knows he's blast on cocaine.

Because at the end of the trial, you have closing arguments. And so we had like a 15-minute break. And we talked about running. We went to lunch. I was coming back. My brother, he's a law enforcement officer. We're walking by down the street. There's my truck.

My family's like 10 sets behind this. I see my truck. I stopped my brother, Grazzi. And don't think about it, man. I was like, fuck it. Because I knew I was done. I said, fuck, I mean, I can be in Mexico in six hours. Say, I figure what hell is going on?

And I was about to run, you know? If you ever get a change, you're getting jammed on something, he didn't run. It's easier to find it when you're outside. But anyway, we go in there and then a... What do you mean? Do you think, like, if you fled to Mexico and you were on the lamb for a couple of years, you could have made a deal in abstentia? Yeah.

Like, you could have had somebody make a deal with the D. just be like, okay, he'll turn himself in for five years. Can you do that? I don't know. Well, I say run. Absolutely. If you're going to press something you didn't do, would you rather be out living in Belize or somewhere on the beach?

Yeah. I'm sitting in this, Godforsaken, shithole Texas penal system. Run, you know? Totally. I totally agree. Don't try to be a hero. Yeah. So we go back.

We have like another hour thing. Then we're going to break for closing arguments. So Dan tells me, a lawyer, he said, hey, you and Jeff, the investigator, They were going with me. He had a townhouse near downtown. I get choked up thinking about this. I get so lingering. I'm in the front passenger, see a Dan's truck.

Jeff's sitting behind Dan driving. We would dance townhouse. I start to get out, and there's no wait here. What? So Dan goes in, and Jeff's investigator tapping my story. You know what he's doing, right? He's in their fucking, he's blowing Coke, man. He said, exactly.

And he came out and looked at him. I said, hey, you get that shit off your nose. He literally had coke on his nose like you see in, you know. It's like a show. It's like, yeah, totally. So we go in there, man, he's, porn, sweat, screaming a hollering, open arguments, running around like an idiot. So blah, blah, blah.

Jerry goes out, this is like on Friday, and they come back, like five hours later. They come back, they found me guilty. And I hear, you know, I hear my mother just wail. By me, you know, my dad's sobbing. And so she revoked my bond, of course. It was my, it was Easter, my anniversary of my birthday, all fell on the same weekend.

So this is my weekend in jail, Harris County Jail. Come back Monday, even 20 years, you know. And so I knew everybody could have got up to 99. Because it's first-degree murder. Well, after, because I told you, Cogdale said he hadn't practiced in a year, right? So this is his big trial to get him back going. Well, he burns off. He called a press conference and burns off because he lost.

So Allen, Dan's partner, who's helping us now. Alan went to talk to the jury. They said, how did you find him guilty? They said, because it was like a two-week trial. and they said, we don't know what happened. She said, and the juror said for the first week, we thought that McGowan and those two guys were with him that we'd been broken his house and gunned down a little housewife laying in bed.

We didn't know he's a policeman until after the first week, you know. Wait, say that again? Yeah, that's what the jury told Alan Toddbill's co-counsel. They said that they didn't even know what was going on. Like with the actual event. Yeah, they said until the end of the first week, we were all under the impression that these three guys have been broken house and just, what are he shot this woman?

Oh my God. How is this illegal? How is the, I mean, this is crazy. Oh, it's better. And then the jury said, they said, and then Alan said, well, you'll find him guilty. He said, well, he didn't testify. He goes, he doesn't have to testify.

Now, argue, my Lord, you need to put me on stand. If you're ever a charge of a sex crime or any kind of homicide or being murdered, voluntary manslaughter, you got to tell your story, dude. Yeah. You don't tell your story, someone's going to tell a story.

That's where they fucked up. It's not in your favor and you're going to get fucked. That's where they fucked up with the kid from Dallas that just got hammered, the guy that the black kid, Carmelo. Oh, Carmelo. You know, he definitely overreacted. He shouldn't have had a knife. He deserves me in prison.

But they completely fucked up, not letting him on the stand. You got to defend yourself, you've got to. Because then you could describe the circumstances, your mindset, right? That's exact word. Yeah. Yeah, fuck. I went around around with them. But the jury said that, and then Alan said, what, you gave him 20 years?

You don't even know what happened? And I said, no, I was in there. You gave him 20. And the jury told him, well, the prosecutor is illegally. She said, well, the prosecutor and investigator came here and told us because of who his family is and him being a policeman, he would have an easy in prison, which I assure you that it made exponentially more dangerous and difficult told me than any other inmate. I guarantee you that.

Right. And they said when he only had to do a quarter of his time because I was under the old law. Well, yeah, I was eligible. I got a 20s. I was eligible at five years. Yeah. Being eligible for parole and get parole. Through totally different things.

Yeah. So they gave you a medium upward departure because they assumed that you would be out in a few years. Five years, yeah. They said, they said, we don't know what happened. And whatever happened out there, we figured that five years would be enough. you got to raise, juries are, the grand jurors are picked by the judges. You're getting indicted. You're getting indicted.

Ham sandwich, yeah. Literally. And in these jurors, another thing, I mean, there's nothing that's wrong with them. But, I mean, you have a plumber and a milkman and, you know, whoever, a secretary would have. No, a competent lawyer has to walk them through the law, what happened, the facts, yeah. Yeah, and see, and the, our self-defense claim, which Dan would not go after the defense of a third party, you guys were with me, or the suicide by cop, which probably got me out of this, which that's what it was.

But the judge illegally or unlawfully, actually, there's a difference, allow the jury decide the law. They're the tire of facts, not of law. That's the judge's job. Well, she let the judge let the jury decide the law and self-defense. What's there wrong? Federal and I know in Texas and federal, I know of other states, it's against the law, it's against a law.

to, it's against the law to resist arrest, even if that arrest is unlawful. Like, say, your producer lives at 1-27 Smith Street. Back Street. Yeah, you know, probably F Street. But, and you live two doors down. We're getting a warrant for your arrest, but somebody messes up somewhere

and it comes to his house. So a police show up banging on his door. He had nothing to do with it. We're at the wrong house, but he can't get in a gunfight with us. You can't start shooting at us because he don't want to get arrested. And one of my writ lawyers

was very, he was very astute when he made a comment about that. He said, you know, if you don't win this appeal, people are going to get the way of killing police officers in this country. Because technically, if you're racial profiling or whatever, and you pull over a car for no legitimate, technically, that's an unlawful detention. You just pull them over because, you know, you have to have protocol. You always find it. You know what I mean. And you want somebody got pops a police officer. Well, you know, I, I wasn't, that was an unlawful stop. I was defending me. He had a gun. I was defending myself. Right. That's the precedent they laid out.

Right. You know? So now you've got 20, you've got to go do 20. And you're in, I mean, I think you said you went to like 20 different units. Yeah. 20 different prisons. They jam me up, dude. That's fucking crazy.

And I see like comments people. He had to be in protected custody. I was never in protected custody. I was my first three days. And I get there because I knew my cousin was a deputy. I trained all his people. I know everybody in the work in the jail there. So I basically went straight to prison.

I get there at night. And a captain, big old guy, comes and talks to me, he said, man, what the fuck, man? You have to go to a bird unit huntsville. That's your, what's the word of talking? It's the intake. Yeah, intake. Exactly, that's the intake unit. And so you have to go there.

So they put me on a safekeeping wing in my first three nights. I knew nothing about prison, right? Man, I'd seen movies. Shawshank Redemption. That's the most true one. Is Texas prisons? Do you think so? Man, dude, that prison was built like an 1871 or something.

Old red brick. I go there screaming and hollering 24-7. And this was, luckily, it was the weather it was in March, so it went, neither hot or cold. They bring me up on the third floor. The old ragged-ass steel stairwell, barely screaming and hollering.

Well, clearly I was the only Caucasian on the wing. Clearly the only heterosexual on the wing and clearly the only sane person. And absolutely no doubt the only person on IQ over 70. That's not where you want to be now. Well, back of the day, the boxers, I mean, the prison boxers had a fly in them, right? So all these guys, they were not like me.

They, uh, been over with their boxers spread, you know, butt cheeks, saying, you know, and I was like, fuck this, man. I thought that's how I was going for 20 years there. Yeah. I was like, oh, hell no. Hell no, man. We're, the next morning, get to shower and they're shot down and run and they're very small, you know. I'm like, you know, God, not like them. They're all looking at me doing their business.

I was like, oh, hell no. Fuck this. I should have run. I should have run. I should have shoved my brother and jumped there in my truck and hauled ass, man. Yeah. Yeah, you should have. So, and then your appeal throughout these 20 years, you went in in 2001, you got out in 21. Correct. Your appeals didn't got denied. Shut down, shut down. Even though you won four of them. Well, one reason they had my case in the 90s.

Correct. The judge that I had at my trial, she's in the court of criminal appeals her in Austin so that wouldn't help in my appellate case you know right she doesn't want to overturn her own when she was still a judge when you found rib habeas corpus they have 15 days to respond she waited it took three years 150 days for to respond her response was I'm not responding to this

even the DA's office with my writ lawyer my appeals got lost out of a writ lawyer family did he's not even long he was a police hater man he just hate me because I was a police he flat told me that But I think he tried to help me, but nonetheless. How many appeals got to that? We had the direct appeal, the Court of Appeals in Houston.

And he thought it's called a PDR petition for discretionary view with the Court of Criminal Appeals here in Austin. They're the highest criminal court in the state. And you kept getting denied for parole. Yeah, yeah. I waited for five years. For five years, I settled in my bunk, played their, you know,

they had the most ridiculous stupid policies and rules. and say, just like, this is a fucking nightmare, man. Yeah. And so I sat there for five years and read thousands of books, you know. And then came for parole. My family hired this big parole lawyer for parole attorney from here in Austin. They never waste your money on parole lawyers. He was a good guy, but it's a scam.

It's a good, man. So I come up for parole the first time, and then I got a five, I got a two-year set-off. I mean, you don't come up for two more years. Right. But in Texas, say you come up for parole, say October 1st, is there a five-year mark. they may not see like April or May. They might take six, seven, eight months to get an answer. Well, that time's not clocked in.

Right. So if you get two years, now you're looking at waiting for an answer for a year, then two years after that, she's looking at three years. So, and my dad and my brother, an older brother came until I got a set-off. I was, man, pissed, dude. After five years, they're sweating masks, offering books, not saying, talking to anybody. And some brothers are like, man, we'll put money on your commissary, we'll send you books. You got two years, two years.

I was like, man. So, I wait another two years, get another set off. I said, fuck. Under what guys are they denying your parole? Well, Texas, they have, I think they have five, like one D, they have like one, ABCD, two. And two Ds is a general catch-all. The nature of your crime. They throw that one out at most everybody.

Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, I was convicted of shooting somebody, yeah. But I saw parole, like, you know, in, like, other states. You don't like go in front of a board, like, five or seven people, right? I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm remorseful. I didn't do this, man. The only time you get to see any of your voters is if you have a very high-profile case

or you have a lot of political on both sides or whatever, which I had both, you know. So I think of a third time up. I saw Lynn Razica. Her reputation was impeccable. The rest of parole people are idiot, retarded people. But she was really nice, man. She called him and talked to me in seven years.

And she said, you know, I told what happened. She said, look, I know what happened. She said, but look, she goes, I don't submit to peer pressure or public pressure, political pressure, but my boss, my boss's boss, her boss and boss gave me the first set off. She said, look, I let a man out her murder detects a range or fade a lot of heat. She said, but I'm telling you now, you and your family have figured something out, you're not going to get pulled out of her. They're never going to let you pull out of here.

So I'm like, okay, well, you know, I've got 13 years left, you know. And so this is the good old boy system. Exactly. Working its way from the prosecutor in Harris County all the way to, to the Texas Board of parole. And she told me... Do they all know each other? And they're all like, fuck this guy, fuck this guy, fuck this guy.

Yeah, let me tell you what happens in parole. And she told me, she told me that she's younger a parole. And she told me, she said, I can't get into what you're in your file, but there's no way of protesting your parole. You have someone on the inside pulling strings and making calls. So coming from parole again, another to yourself, pull up again, three yourself. With this point, this whole crazy story,

I was barely glanced on this one. a church ministry reached out to my family in California. So that's some wealthy family members. And shook them down for 300 grand for a yes vote. I'd know nothing about this. This is kind of a crazy prison story. I'm laying there on my bunk and it's like on Saturday night in the gym, 115 degrees. They're having like a church ministry thing, a rally or whatever he's called.

Two guards come again, man. I need to go down to the gym for what? Someone's talked to you. So I go to the gym and there were these, guys on the stage and like a partition on the back of it. And his guys up there, this big old,

these are like we're surveying guys, clearly ex-convicts. And these guys are big, huge African-American guys, prison tatted. And they're like this prison minister, right? So he's on the speaker, hey, is there, he made a gown in here?

And I was like, that's you. And I said, well, yeah. What the hell? So go out there and he goes, hey, somebody has talked to you back here. Just go up by the petitioner. Just little old lady,

little African-American lady in a wheelchair. And I think she was straight up. She was like in her 80s. And she's in wheelchair and she goes, it's so nice to meet you. Your aunt and uncle, so and so are the sweetest people. And I'm like, what in the fuck?

And then she said, do you want to have to pray for you? I'm like, okay. You know, so she blessed this man and his family and his aunt and uncle. They provided our ministry with new buildings and fund our revivals or whatever and bought a fleet of cars. I'm like, what the hell? And so anyway, she finished that. So I wheel her around a thing to talk to the,

idiot image, right? So the big little dudes coming to me and said, hey, look, man, we get the final check. We got the, we're going to get you out of here. We know what we're doing

this all the time. So I'm like, okay, yeah, right on, brother, you know, so what the, so. So me,

I go to the phone. I call my dad, and I said, hey, did aunt and uncle so and so, did they donate to a church or something down? Yes,

don't say, because they listen to your phone calls. Don't say another word. I said, come visit me this weekend. And so, he tells me, I said, man,

you can all go to prison for that, man. So your aunt and uncle paid a church group that had connections. It was a scam, man. Okay. So it was a legitimate deal. Okay, so it was a total scam. Yeah, it was a full scam. And those people came to the prison that you were in?

Yeah, these guys were hooked up with this old lady. She's somewhat well-known. She died here a few years ago. But they wrote a book about her. She was the first female to ever be allowed to go on the Texas Death Road, administer people, whatever. And she's part of this. I don't think she was in the scam.

Oh, okay. I mean, she just had these convict, clearly ex-con dudes, that they were pulling this hustle. And all she thought was we're getting donations because she wouldn't have told me that if it was, if she didn't think it was legit, right? So the convicts were like, yeah,

we're connected just from our years within the Texas Board of Parole. We know a guy, and you pay us $300,000 or whatever it was. You get you a yes vote and get you out. We know people in the parole board, right? This might be the most corrupt nation on earth. So my family members from California were at my trial. So my dad called him.

They said that they just saw how corrupt it was down there. They're Californians doing them. And they just said that we just thought that's how things got moved down there. Things happened down there. That was another $300,000. And then the board commissioner that was involved with them, I came up for parole. I was up for parole then, right?

They gave me a three-year set-off. And I fell into a loophole. The most I could give me it was a two-year because of a weird law. They gave me three years set off just to jam me up. So I did the law, right? So I started raising the hell about this. So that dragged on. Getting a lawsuit over that.

But then in 2014, on March 13th of 2013, my mom and dad were terminally ill. I lost all appeals, man. And I was out of hope. That's what, fuck, man. I get eight years. My parents are dying.

You know? And so I wrote a hail mail. I had a prison typewriter. which I literally burned up. It's mentioned several times my typings in that book. But I sent Hellmery letter to, I can mention this guy's name because he said every time, Ray Hunt. He's the executive director of the Houston Police Officers Union.

And I went to the academy with his brother 40 years ago. And then a similar to Ray Hunt, and his dad, he's gone now, but his dad had been out of our ranch hunting. A very short letter. I said, hey, I want your academy with your brother. I met your dad a couple of times. He came hunting at the ranch. paragraph one.

Paragraph two was, I'm still one of you, I'm one of the good guys, I'm your brother in blue, I'm in trouble, I need help. And then the second paragraph I sent to the text of Rangers,

I was completely out of hope, you know? And there's all kind of crazy shit going on, man, they're sending gay members and shit after me, but I can tell you some action. Who was sending you gang members after you? These guys are connections, man.

I'll tell you some crazy prison stories, man. Okay, tell us. Tell us. Well, when I got, I got in a lawsuit to these people. Let me talk about these letters real quick. All right. Then we'll jump to it, come back to it.

But the Ray Hunt and Texas Rangers responded. But anyway, yeah, when I was jamming on prison, it was freaking insane, dude. The tablo trash books that were written about me, prison guards are bringing them in. Those books aren't supposed to be coming in there because of a security issue, right? And his present guards are bringing in

and want me to autograph them. I said, do you think I would write that book about myself? You think, you thought I would never do it. They'd tell his prisoners. So, man, I'm like, well into my beginnings in there. I worked for the sheriff's department, right? But I worked for HPD first. But my name was HPD for 19 years, four months, and four days.

The whole time I was in, but I was, hey, HPD. That was your handle. And then I'd get them up from unit to unit, which is pretty cool because I would, you kept a lot of people away from me, you know? Because I'm going to be clear, man. Nobody's touching me here. Because I don't know. First person I got into it with guards.

I don't make to her right here, man. Always put their hands on me, guard her inmate. Right fucking now, man. Did you have a, do you ever have a knife on you? No, I never had a shame. but you were just ready to fuck somebody up. I had people that wouldn't let someone get to me,

prisoner people. Right. Because when I got in there, you only had the gangs, you know, the creps in the bloods, and the tongo blast started up with this panic on us, right?

And so, when I got into with a deal with an issue of the one, I got a jawed dislocated by a major and an assistant warden on the, that led into criminal charges against them and all that. What happened? Feds got involved.

There was a, it's a crazy story. If you didn't hear it, I'll make it short. When I was a, on the pack unit and have a soda. They moved the guy, the guy, the guy would have been in Bucknooks to me, a good guy, man.

And they moved him out, and they put this big old dude in their next to me, right? And we were both night shift to SSIs. There's guys like, you clean up, mop, or whatever at night, which I refuse to do. I never did liquor for those people. I didn't sleep for those people. They didn't try to send you to the fields or anything like that?

They went to me in the fields because you go out there. They had the call my Aggies, the big tools they use. They're afraid to send me out there or somebody coughed my head. Actually, I had a word and tell me that. You'll never go in the fields. I said, I wouldn't go anyway. But see, I had an ace in a hole. I had my background.

And I'd say is, hey, man, that dude over there, I know him from the street, man. And I did run a few people I put in jail. Wow. To the prison. But they looked at the inmates that was cool. Most of them, be honest with it. Yeah.

They think it's like, I came to the dark side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I played it up, you know. But number of years in, I got in that major in them. It was a money laundering situation. This major was involved with some inmates. The FBI got involved. The FBI got involved.

Wow. They leaked out through OIG. TDC's an idiot, police. So I wound up being locked up and a busted jaw on the shoulder over it from this major. He fucked, he punched you, he beat you up. He handcuffed me, slamming the wall a couple of times as hard as he could.

And the guards all hated him. And many years later, this idiot retires and comes back to that same unit as the parole officer of the unit. Even though guards there wrote letters to parole said, this is not a good idea because he would just fuck over everybody he didn't like. Me. There is

no solution for the cancer of government. It needs to be eliminated. And scale down to the smallest possible. Because you can't, you know, it rewards the biggest fuck-ups and the biggest retards and the most corrupt people and the most evil people. That's in prison. Prison is the epitome.

Totally. It is the paragon of that. Because to get promoted as a guard, you're the biggest idiot in there. Or if your uncle's the warden. There's no like, this guy knows your shit, you know? And then these guards wind up, expanding into being parole officers or OIG retards.

Crazy. And all you do, they don't police those. They protect their own people. They don't police it. Yeah. It's ridiculous. As you said, there's no oversight and there's no consequences. When the Rangers got involved, they got involved over old stuff.

And they had two investigations going. They had one going against TDC OIG and the parole board over the 300 grand shutdown. Then another one going over the sheriff's department, the DA's office. I got put in prison. Well, the Rangers came on a Tuesday, and I said, I'm going to come back Thursday. And I was up for parole at this point. And I said, all right. Well, the unit parole officer, she calls me in her office, and I never seen them before.

And she was like every unit has one. Like, where are you going if you get out, which you're not getting out? But just in case, you don't want her. And she literally tells me, I get up. She goes, hey, you're going to need to come back tomorrow. That's what you need something. She goes, man, I got terrible ADHD. She goes, I'm going to remember this conversation.

She's tomorrow coming because I don't have time to write this down right now. I'm like, these people in charge me getting out. All right. But anyway, when the Rangers were there, they're on Tuesday. They weren't about Thursday. So Thursday, guards come around and I said, hey, you got a visitor. You know, it's all right. So I figured it's the Ranger.

Cool, dude. So they take me the law library. We always just met in the major's office. Really pissed off the major when you use his office. But they, it's this pro officer who was involved in the $300,000 shakedown. He went even in that region. He goes to the region where I am. gets my file.

He worked in a whole separate part of Texas. He, I guess, assigns himself to my case. And be a tall guy. He comes in there. I said, who are you? He said, I'm so-and-so. I knew him. By the next hour, I was in a lawsuit with him, right?

I said, what do you want? He goes, I get your parole file. And I was really, you're not you're supposed to be here. He goes, you know what? Your case is up to me, you know what? He goes, you ain't got a fucking chance. Good luck, man. All right, don't go fuck yourself, you know?

And so, Ranger's come like 30 minutes later. I'm telling us Ranger, he goes, you got to be shitting me. He goes, this major, the bust of your shoulder and jaw were investigating, now he's a parole officer on this unit. And the parole commissioner for his, not even this reason that we're investigating came and told you, you know, you're fucked on parole. He goes, what do you think your chances are getting out of parole? That's a slim and none and slim just rode out of town, man. But, yeah, but finally how it got out to get to the end of the prison stuff. It was crazy stuff.

Did you get any good time? They don't have good time. You did day for that. Yeah. I don't have good time in Texas. Right. So you're either going to get parole, which you probably walk or you're going to do your time. So you got out, how much time did you do total? 19 years, four months, and four days. Wow. When I came up for parole, well, my story, HPD followed me through. And then for many years, I didn't find it for like three years after it was following. I was an undercover FBI agent and they're watching the guards. Well, so I just let these rumors float because they changed, they moved inmates and they said you were, that was the rumor in prison that you were.

So, guards, and I didn't start that rumor. I didn't know it. Somebody said, yeah, when I was in the unit three years ago, we all knew your FBI agent. I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Damn, I'm burned, you know? Yeah. Because that kept the guards base for somewhat. Because they move inmates and guards constantly, especially if I, because of my security issues, they bounced me all over.

But I was the huge unit where if they cannot control you, that's where you go, it was a huge unit. And I was passing through one night there because a high-ranking Texas politician was involved. kept moving me, because if I was going to get death threats. I was supposed to be going to a private unit. I stopped the Hughes overnight. I had jammed it there for eight months. But the warden there, at the Hughes end of the time, he was the warden from the pack, you know,

my jaw busting, right? The U.S. Marshals came and got me off there because that federal lawsuit. That marshal said, they're going to kill him on there. Wow. But that warden put me in a, call me out, and he locked me up and said all the time. That'd be an asshole.

Because it's like a vacation, get there by yourself. They'd move you at count time, because the count they have to freeze the unit, right? Everybody gets, you go to yourself, like everybody counted. They rolled this door right before count time. And this guy was like, African-American guy, like six, five, big son of a bitch, man.

They shut the door and he goes, you that motherfucker-law man out of Irish County, ain't you? The warden told him. I was like, oh, fuck this, man. So I'm stuck in like 20 minutes, right? Listen to his bullshit. And then the door rolled. I need to unload myself out a little cart. Right back to Sagan lock me up.

Yeah. Then he said that same ward, man. Yeah, I pissed at that again. He just sent me for nine months. Eight months. I was there. Eight or nine months. and he put me in this one wing,

eight building for everybody out there who's been in this huge unit. It's not just for homosexuals. This is for freaking crazy homosexuals. And most of them are like little Hispanic guys. But he stick me in there, right? And I had a thing, I had a bottom row, bottom bunk at a restriction.

So I wouldn't get, I always up on the bottom bunk. You know bottom. Bottom row restriction. Sorry. And bottom bunk, bottom row restriction because of the heat. Anyway, I was smart.

I did so at the all the time. I got smart them. But they put me in there with those crazed gay dudes because I went on a restriction, right? So I got to get to roll a door to them to go to commissary. And they were in there. They're all like little like Hondurans or something. I don't tell you.

But they'd fight those guards. They were vicious. And they stayed in there. The only time they let them out is they'd roll one door at a time. Two of them come out and get their trays and sit there. But then they'd be hollering me every time. We hate you. You're ugly.

Why are you in here? All the time. But when I was going to go to converse. Hey, man, could you give me some minsticks? Give me a wrong suit, man. Yeah. You know? I knew when I leave, we hate you.

Don't ever come in here again when you're ugly. They always told me that. It's a good impression. It hurt my feelings. I was just strapped over that. Yeah, because I thought they would see you as like a bear. They would see you as, you know. I don't know what a bear is.

Well, they'd be, I know what a bear is. I think they'd be otters in the community. Yeah, but it was a. So. But yeah, I was in there. What about now? So what have you done the last four, four and a half. A little over five years and two days have been out. When I got out, when I finally

got out, I was sent to a private unit and went to that prison entrepreneurship program. But the day I got out, well, the time I got out, my 10th time up. And I'm going to say her name, she's great. Tracy Long was the parole commissioner. And she gave me a year set off the year before. And I had like a year left. And because of COVID, they couldn't come in. And so the major comes against me and say, hey, parole, let's talk to you. And this thing about private units, like when Biden was a big thing try to get rid of them? Private prisons. Private prisons are a place to go. They've got to be privatized. I don't care if people make money. Do you look at what you go through? I don't care if I'm a craze, you know, if I was a murder. Interesting. Not animals. I'm telling you,

private units, MTC. See, I've talked to guys that have said private prisons were some of the most violent because the staff is so under-trained. They're the most corrupt. But I don't know. Maybe not. I mean, this was in, I think he was in Ohio. This is so... Yeah, I was culture shock when I got there. Really? No Nigerians. This thing, when they started flooding TDC with Nigerians, they were vicious, vile individuals, man. And they hated all the time, I hate you of Mexican blacks.

They hated the black inmates more than they hated us. They just despised them. They were vicious. But anyway, when I met with Tracy Long, I go to the major's office. He was a great guy, man. Kenneth was his name. And he sits me in his death. You know, and he said, there's a computer screen, and he said, she'll be on here in a minute. I'm like, all right, you know, and it pops up, and there's just, looks like that lady, you know, your mom or whatever, you know, and she called me Kent, which is, my name is Joseph

Kenton, my guy on, but I was in my Kent, never going to my mom. She called me Kent. So I was like, yeah, that can I call him. And I was ready to lay my spiel out to her, man, I didn't do this, man. I got a year, you know, I didn't do this. You know, I didn't do it, you know, I didn't get it out. she says, she goes, can you hear me? I said, yes, ma'am, can you hear me?

Because I had a stupid look on my face. And she goes, yeah, I said, I don't see like a techno-embecile. I never talked on a computer before. You know, she kind of laughed. She'll, I guess you have it? I said, no. And man, we're off the bat, dude. She said, well, off the bat, she said,

I can on good conscience let you sit here for 20 years. She said, I know what's happened to you. I know, hey, wind up prison. I know what's going on in here with you. I'm going to give you an F-5-1, which is an immediate release. and get you out here immediately. And I was like, trying to cry. And I don't have to say, I was, thank you.

And I said, I said, you gave me a year, I know it takes two votes. And both don't give me a set off last year. And the other guy was a retired sheriff. The sheriff had a Lubbock County, Texas. And she goes, don't worry. You know, call's been made. We're going to get you out of here.

And then she looked at me and she goes, she goes, do you know why you've been denied parole for 15 years and when you did it's your 10th time up? And I said, I have my suspicions. And she said, the names, I'm going to say her names. I don't care. They can assume me. You all can bleep it out.

She said, is John Denholm. The name's John Denholm, Steve Clapper. Dennel was a homicide lieutenant, Clapper, is the de-investigator. She said, the name's John Denholm and Steve Clapper familiar with you. I said, they've been calling here for 15 years. Wow. Telling us that, and she even told me then that nobody's ever protested your parole. And I've had other people telling that, too.

Somebody's behind the scene is doing this. And she said, she said, Clapper and Denholm, Clapper and Denholm, Clappert and Denholm have been calling her for 15 years. So you had contracts out to have him killed. If we let you out of here, that you're going to go kill them. You know, you're going to murder them.

I said, well, that would be understandable, and I'm not going to do it, of course, you know. She's something to get you out of here immediately, you know. It still took 86 days because they kept calling them. And I got out of the proloftures told me, he's Clapper and Denholm guy are calling us, you know? Psychos. So where are they now, Clapper and Denholm?

Are they still on the force? Are they still serving in the prosecutor's office? He's bounced from me. He's been fired from job. job. And last side, he was a reserve at Liberty County and in Ohio, and in North of Houston. And when I got out, DEN was a DA investigator. He was a DA investigator. The prosecutor, he's, we have no idea. He dead our lives. There's actually no record of him anywhere. And then Denno set me up, him and Sergeant Dave, that my sergeant, their Ohio buddies,

they fled to Ohio when I got out. They thought that I was not going to live through prison. It is an absolute miracle. I was not murdered in prison or worse. Yeah. I'm telling you, man. But they, and I survived it, man, mentally and physically. I would never institutionalize. The only work institutionalized, I call it the Chow Hall because we did in the military and the police.

Yeah. So do you have any lawsuits now? They're coming. Okay. What leads me to hear, because I know your time's running, is the guy, a bunch of Houston PD guys picked me up, you know. I talked about my mom and my dad, my son. There are three people I wanted when I got out to be here.

It would COVID. I'd seen the son in 17 months, you know. But I walked out and I was looking for my mom and dad, my son. Because, you know, when you're in there, man, you got to bury that stuff. It'll kill you. Yeah. You got to worry about surviving and getting out for the people that are still up there. And so, you know, I was looking around.

They weren't there. And I see these HPD dudes there. Hey, man, you know, they brought clothes. I'm putting them on lace up, a belt, buttoned up shirt. What the hell, man? Friced culture shock, dude. Yeah. And she went down.

They got me, got me a phone. They said, don't look up yourself, your Lord. Because they had eight and a half months on parole. Do not, do not get these bad guys any reason to jamming up. So next day, real quick, I had to go to my parole officer. She said on the same thing, because they had me on an ankle monitor. I was under house arrest, basically. And the parole commissioner said no restrictions at all.

But the parole lady said, look, man, because I was assigned a supervisor and a parole officer to them. She said, we don't think you're going to do something stupid or dangerous. Just, God forbid something happens to you, it's going up the chain of command. I said, I can deal with that. You can chain me to a tree and throw a water bird every once a day. I don't care. Let me the hell out of here, you know? But I was out about a year, and then I'd get this FBI agent, Michael Tabman, retired 26-year

veterans, special agent of the FBI. He's a police officer before that. And just like everybody else, the ranger, everybody else said, man, we thought you're full of shit. You know, we got your letters or, you know, we thought you're full of shit. And they also said the same thing, man, we started reading these documents. We start talking to witnesses that are now, these people are threatened back then, you know, law enforcement guys, your career is over if you talk.

So he did a three-year investigation. We got videotaped of homicide. detective and a federal agent was involved the two guys were women to shooting and a bunch of people like i told you yesterday man after i did that a podcast man had a narcotic sergeant of Harris county got 10-year sentence from these same guys there's a bunch of there's at least six of them that we know it's seven and after talking this guy yesterday but uh so is there a federal ongoing investigation yeah we did that and as soon as soon that investigation was over uh jerry linton through a mutual friend the guy wrote the book contact me that took 15 months no lawyer would touch me

And then I knew the book was about two months out. And I called a lawyer. I can't discuss the individual's name right now. We're going to do a... When they comes out with this, it's going to drop a new cry in the middle of it, and they find out of what this lawyer is. I call that lawyer and left the message,

and they called back. So get in my office, man. They said, I'm a lawyer told me, she said, I'm the only person just going to take your case. So you should be getting paid. And the only person to get you out of this. So what are you trying to get on the state level?

This man. Trying to get money per day you were incarcerated? Well, in Texas, you have to get full exonerated by the state. The state never does that. Right. They don't say, man, we fucked up. Here's $3 million. Right.

Never. Hell no. But, and people ask me that, you know, what are you trying to get out of this, whatever? You know, let's just let this go. You know, and in the book, Ray Hunt for the police union, and he aptly told Jerry and put in the book, he said, people like Ken who have been, you know, unlawfully put in prison, they feel such a deep sense of being wronged. They can't get over it.

And I say that. I'll get through this. My family will get through this. I'll never get over it. You know, this is utterly annihilated my family, socially, professionally, financially, and otherwise. I think the stress killed my mom and dad and my son. I really did. But the four reasons I do this is number one is there's much due justice needs to come to my family,

be it compensation or whatever. Something. You know, something that states saying, man, we don't happen. We did this. Something. Yeah. You know? And number two,

My mom and dad's a deathbed. They died 11 months apart. They made me promise them. They said, you'll fight this. You clear your name and the family's name. And number three, my kids, and then my grandkids, they grew up with a stigma. Oh, you know, documentaries, whatever.

Oh, your dad, your granddad is a rogue, murdering, psycho cop going rogue and all this stuff. That's the third reason. And the fourth reason is these guys who've done this to my family and me, they've done this for a lot of other people, man. Right. Not just police officers, civilians. Yeah.

I actually documented stuff. They've sent innocent men twice on death road just to make names for themselves. It's not vindictiveness and maliciousness. Is there, I'll ask you again, is there a FBI criminal investigation ongoing right now? Yeah, after the retired FBI guy did his, then the book came out, and I got this lawyer. So all that's in route, yeah. We're taking to the FBI, there's clearly, the Texas Ranger told me, they said, you clearly have some legitimate criminal complaints here. Okay.

And the retired FBI agent, of course she knows that stuff. Okay. So we're in the process of getting a package together to take it to the FBI. I see. And then civil suits, absolutely. Okay. Against the state. And then do you sue those individuals as well, or do you sue the state?

Yeah, you can't sue under federal, I think Article 11 in the Constitution. You can't sue a state, but you can sue individuals. But you can sue a municipality, a county, the federal government. So, but like if this worked out, the county would have to pay me back pay for 34 years. You're supposed to see an ordain rank. That'd be sweet. Yeah. Then you can have those guys killed, bro.

Okay. I wouldn't do that, but, you know, I wouldn't be sats when a day. Right. Okay, reasonable doubts by Joseph Kent McGowan and Jerry Langton. Go get it. Go get it. Where can they get the book? Barnes, main place, it's all over.

Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Easiest place. Kent, I am so sorry that happened to you. I really am, but I admire your strength and glad you're home. home. And yeah, go go get your justice, man. Because people are sick of this shit. They're sick of it. And look, if you live in Texas, I'm sorry. This is one of the shittiest places on earth. I'm leaving soon. Yeah. I'm a lifelong Texan, but I'm out of here, man. Yeah. Yeah. There needs to be a political revolution. Just like there is happening in Florida right now with James Fishback, that needs to happen here.

You know, and the first thing you got to do is get that fucking Zionist out of office. Love that fucking fat cunt. I tell you this, I kind of have a handle on Facebook. I can learn as TikTok and stuff, man. I'm telling you, if there's anybody out there, listen this, watch this, whatever, reach out to you, man. I'll talk to you. I'll talk to people all the time.

I've become pretty well-known activist and advocate against this. Innocent people in prison, it's a crazy phenomenon. If it doesn't happen to you or one of your loved one or your buddy, whatever, I don't give a shit about that. Yeah, wait until it happens because it can happen to me, my family, you can have anybody. I'm telling you, man. Well, you were telling me off camera.

No, actually, I think describing your buddy, the cop, whose girlfriends got her four-year-old daughter to put him in prison for 40 years or something. Three, 40-year sentences and a 10, yeah. I mean, that happens, you know, you don't believe it until you're around the people that it actually happened to. And you're like, oh, this does happen in America. This supposedly freest country on earth happens all of the time. I would watch when I was locked up. You know, people say, oh, everybody's in prison as innocent. Hell no, man.

The bad guys brag. They brag all the time. But I'd watch visitations where you know. Someone go to visitation, they come like, man, that hoe did, you know, pull something out, you know. But you see a guy coming with tears in his eyes. You know, like me, screaming all the whole time. I didn't do it.

I mean, I got jammed up. You see that dude coming from, I don't care of what race creator color. Come back from visitation, you can tell the dude's innocent, man. Yeah. Because the only thing that could make this worse for me is if I had done something, stupid, let alone illegal. For what this has done in my family,

I wouldn't have done this. I don't know. I would have put it into myself. If I'd done something, I couldn't bear to see what my family's gone through. If it was because of me, I couldn't deal with it, man. There's no way.

Well, thanks for your work. And thanks for coming on here. Well, I appreciate the invite. Yeah, and the link to your book will be in the description and the comment. And I encourage you to just keep doing what you're doing and speaking out. And, yeah.

And I don't know, if it's cool or not, young edited or whatever, but I have enormous legal fees and I have a gifts and go. Oh, okay. If anybody's, you go to gifts and go, it's like a- Okay, yeah, we'll put the link in there too. Yeah, and just put Kent McGowan and go to first responders, but yeah.

Awesome. That's huge legal fees, man. Man, I hope you get that money back, bro. It'll be worth it because in the lawsuits and that same lawyer, if we talked about Cogdale and these people suing us, because her mortal enemies in life, or Cogdale Clapperndowne, but she's issues with them. She said, we're suing all these motherfuckers.

It's that, man. It's not a little man. Your only crime was looking like John Goodman and the Big Lobowski. When I was young, I said something funny. Have you heard that before? No, I've heard of those stuff before. What was it? Oh, Ted Cruz.

Yeah, you do look like Ted Cruz. When my beard's kind of with you. Speaking of. Yeah, Ted Cruz. I heard Ted Cruz. I'll tell you so funny when Top Gun came out back in 85 whenever. My mother-in-law went, saw it. And that's I had my military haircut and stuff, man.

She came home and called my wife, her daughter. She got to see this movie. to kill him, she's just like this guy. This is my fantastic schnaz, whatever. She was like, she looks just like Tom Cruise. That's hilarious. Yeah. Wow, you do have those eyes, dude.

I've got a, we had the funding for, through a very well-known dude, did you need an interview, I'll tell you when you get off this. But he, for a two-hour documentary, and then he told him they got funding now for a 12, a six-part two-hour bio-epic, and I was like, that's great, man. I had no idea what a bio-epic was. I'm still getting it on this technology. So I'd have to Google it. Wow.

All right, you guys, we're getting out of here. Make sure to check out his book and go donate if you can find it in your heart to help with this man's legal fees. Kent McGowan, thanks again. Thank you. Appreciate it, guys. You got it, sir. Take care.