The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Exposing A Second Killer In OJ Simpson Murder Case: Whistleblower Reveals Mafia Ties & LAPD Cover Up

Episode Date: May 25, 2024

Investigative journalist, Chris Todd, discusses his research and findings about the infamous OJ Simpson murder case that led to him writing a book about it. He dives into the evidence he found, including a confession, of a second killer, OJ's ties with the mafia and a ring of crime involving drug trafficking that all lead back to the murder itself. Believe him or not, there are some fascinating revelations in this one! Support Chris! Books: Ron's Revenge: https://www.amazon.com/RONS-REVENGE-Chris-Todd/dp/B08KTWGY64 Forest For The Trees: https://www.amazon.com/Forest-Trees-Indiana-murdered-teenage/dp/B0BKFKS1BL Email: [e-mail] This episode is sponsored by MOOD! Visit www.hellomood.co and use code CONNECT20 at checkout for 20% OFF your first order PLUS a FREE 5 count pack of gummies! Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Raging Hard is the best book to read to understand OJ's relationships with the mob guys. He only went to college for two years. Just two years at Jucco, two years at USC. And he's already meeting these shady L.A. mob guys right away. This OJ thing is the craziest stuff you've ever heard in your life. But that's what the LAPD did. They planted the glove behind the house. It's a classic mob setup.

My guest today is Chris Todd. Chris is a private investigator who wrote a book about the accomplice involved in O.J. Simpson murder case. He has a confession from the killer who describes exactly how he and OJ carried out the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman back in 1994. You're not going to believe the scoop this guy has. It involves the mafia, cocaine trafficking, and corruption at the highest levels of the LAPD and the prosecutor's office. Chris lays out his entire theory about what actually happened that night based on eyewitness testimony and of course the confession by this alleged accomplice.

Watch till the end of the episode and then let us know in the comments what you believe. And we have a bonus episode with Chris where he talks about other high profile cases that he's worked on, including Kurt Cobain, Jean-Beneer Ramsey, and Biggie Smalls.

And that is over there on Patreon. Patreon.com slash the Connect show. You already know, without further ado, one of the wildest episodes, my mind is blown. Chris Todd, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. He drives to Nicole's grave, with AC in the white Bronco, which is AC's Bronco.

Not the murder vehicle that's in evidence. He owned the identical car. Fascinating. The Bronco that they took the cops on the chase on is not the bronco with all the blood in it from OJ's house. That's when I see the lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on.

Then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shank. It's like six inches. And he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I've made it out of that place alive. We have a younger audience.

Much of the audiences was born around the time of the OJ case. So they don't understand how important, how huge it was in terms of American pop culture. Besides the JFK murder, the OJ Simpson trial, the OJ Simpson case is the biggest unsolved murder case in American history. Is that fair to say? Yeah, it's the most, it's the biggest true crime story of our era. And it's probably the most mysterious civilian murder case ever. Now, before, because this is going to get a lot of controversy, it's going to get a lot of heat. Do you acknowledge that OJ was at the scene of the crime involved in the murder the way that the prosecution and the mainstream narrative says he was? Yes, OJ.

did it. OJ.J. did do it. With Charlie. Got it. So what we're here to discuss is the third person that was there. No, the other person. I'm sorry. The other person that was involved in the murder that you don't hear about. You've never heard about it. Because there's a media blackout. Right. Right. Okay, good. So this is the conspiracy. This is, uh, you know, I just want to put that out there. You're not crazy. OJ did in fact do it, but with help. Correct. Got it. So this is akin to like, the second government on the grassy knoll, right? They're in Dallas killing Kennedy. It'd be like the guy at the grassy knoll goes,

I was with Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22nd, 1963. And then you say to him, did you pull the trigger? And he goes, don't ask me that. But he's telling you, wink, wink, I was there. Don't ask me what I did. I've already told you. That's what Charlie does too. I was with OJ.

Don't ask me if I murdered anybody. Okay. So why don't you run through your background really quick? My name's Chris Todd. I'm an investigative producer, journalist, and author here in L.A. I work famous and civilian murder cases, cold cases, disappearances. I act sometimes as a police informant on civilian cases all across the country with DAs, lawyers, family members. I wrote four books. I work with Cortivian News Nation from time to time. I also work with other media publications. I either source or leak materials to them.

A lot of times I don't go on the record. So if you look at a lot of stories I've done, you won't see my name written there, and that's for a reason. I do want to come out fully someday, officially, but the media won't let me. They will not let me talk about OJ's murder accomplice. I've gone to everybody.

It's a complete media blackout. I'm honored to be here for you to let me exercise my First Amendment. because all the mainstream media has not let me do that at all for five years. Why do you think that is? You would have to ask them. Okay. So, and have you had success with your investigations in, and handing that information over to police and prosecutors? Yes.

You actually helped break cases and get murder cases. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I put one guy away for 13 years that I won't say his name because he's going to get out soon. Is he a known person? No. Okay. So you work not famous. cases as well. He's mafia.

Okay. This is from years ago. So I've been doing this about 10 years. The, what I say to people too is, if I say I solve the murder, right? Just because the police don't arrest those people doesn't mean I didn't solve the murder. So I either write the book, leak the story, or tell the families, I give reports to them. This is who I believe killed your daughter. You can accept that or not. I have a case in North Carolina right now where I'm dealing with the attorneys on a federal lawsuit. I will hand them my report. I've already told the DA at that, I'm not a cop. I can't arrest

the killer. If they don't want to arrest him, I blast him in the public with his face on the cover of my book. Okay. Like I did on Delphi. Right. Right. Okay. And when did you start working on the OJ case? Seven years ago. Why did it take you so long? Because I had no interest in it at all until a producer came to me and goes, I got this guy who is coming forward that he was with. with OJ. And that's Charlie. Okay. I didn't know his name though for a year. I didn't know who it was. They gave me a screenplay to read, read it in person. They said there's a tape. I heard parts of the tape. And that's it. They wouldn't even tell me his last, I didn't know his last name. I thought Charlie was like a like a front name, like a black name. I had no idea until a year

and a half later when I read OJ's chapter six. And they told me this too of read chapter six of OJ's book, if I did it. Watch the Judith Regan interview. Watch OJ tell you he had an accomplice. Now, that interviewer Shelf for 12 years. It did an error till 2018. So nobody saw it. Right. Right.

And in that book, and the book wasn't even, I don't even think made it to the market. It was shredded for years. Tell us what if I did it is. So if I did it is the book that OJ wrote in 2006 and what a coincidence the year Joey Apollito dies of terminal brain cancer is 2006. So once Joey's gone, OJ and Charlie, without saying Charlie's last name, they write a book called If I Did It. And in Chapter 6, the night in question, they tell you there's an accomplice named Charlie. And who was Joey Appolito?

Joey Appolito is from the Decavo Conte crime family, the New Jersey mob. He was a Coke smuggler. And Charlie was working for him. Yes. And Charlie ran his own crew of Coke smugglers in Miami. Got it. So OJ puts this book out, basically. Basically, do you know, do you have any speculation why he would do such an insane thing?

Money. Money and wanted to get back in the limelight. You waited 12 years. He's an insane person. What would you diagnose him with? Did he have CTE plus rage and psychopathy? No, they say, like, people just say he's a narcissist, right? So a narcissist can never admit they did something wrong.

Everything's about them. If it doesn't affect them, they're not interested. So he is a narcissist. He had people sign NDAs on his deathbed. I'll say this right now. It's possible he told his oldest children, Arnell and Jason, that he killed them. He killed Ron and Nicole. Right.

I don't think he's out at Ehrlich or Charlie, but he may have told his oldest children, and that's why they signed an NDA and said if they say a word, they lose their inheritance at all. That's why Malcolm Laverne is the trust. of the estate. So if I did it essentially walks us through what really happened, it's essentially a confession, but he hides the co-caddle. If I did it, hypothetically, this is how I would do it, but I didn't do it. But, you know, I've had so much time to think about it. It's, but again, it's, I don't, he beat the case. So it didn't really matter. You can't touch him anyway. Can't recharge him. No. Yeah. So was that? In the beginning of the book, he says,

I had nothing to do with Nicole's murder, but if I did, this is how it happened. Which is so American, like, it's such a parody our culture. Like, I think about the middle finger to her and her family and her, and Ron Goldman, who nobody talks about. Poor Ronnie was just thrilled to be getting some pussy from, you know, this hot, older lady of like an NFL legend. Right.

So it's essentially, that's your. your basis for this work is that book if I did it. Well, the way the producers told me in the beginning was let OJ tell you the story first. So when they did that, I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I didn't know the book existed. I had no idea who Charlie Ehrlich was at all. Did you know his name? No one knows this guy's name.

Even in the mob circles, nobody knows him. They used to call him Charlie Tuna, but there's two Charlie Tuna, so you got to be careful. There's a judge named Charles Ehrlich. So you've got to be careful, like, who you're saying. but the point is when the producers are like read chapter six watch the judith rigen interview it wasn't even out yet so i'm like how do you guys know it's coming out and started the wheels started going my head like oh they know it's coming oh oh shit they know it's happening that's why it looks coming forward because now we're going to see on fox when he goes you know this guy showed up a guy

had recently become friends with and he wasn't smiling i said hey charlie what's the matter and he tells you this story through the book who's charlie what who's Who's pulling up to your house right now? So Charlie was interviewed by Fox News? Well, just recently, Charlie was interviewed by CNN just now, but he doesn't, they didn't even know what they're doing. Why was that not a bigger story? They called the cops on me at CNN because I told him Charlie's the OJ's murder accomplice.

Okay, let's not make this about you. Sorry. Yeah, sir. No offense. But my point is you've, you've been working on this. You've done this. This is what you do. That launched me into the investigation.

I was new to the game a little bit. So think of it like I'm in the minor leagues. I'm in the A division of baseball. I don't barely know what I'm doing. Then as the years go by over the seven years, I'm honing the craft. I have civilian cases. I'm getting death threats.

I'm getting crazy sheriffs, cops, things that you make your head spin. Okay. So now I'm learning. My point is I'm learning. Now I'm meeting all the OJ players. I'm meeting all the people from the case. And now they're corroborating. I'm like, oh, this is real.

So it was, it was a learning curve, you know. Before we get into it, what really happened, if he did it, let's walk through, walk us through the official report of that night. Sure. So June 12th, 1994, Nicole and Ron are found at about midnight. Okay. So it's almost like the 13th. It's basically they're found on the 13th. They list their, they're both stabbed.

to death multiple times. Ron, way more than Nicole. So that's important, too, for part of the case. And it becomes a media sensation. The country is engrossed in it. OJ's kind of like, you know, he was a goody-goody in a way to people. He was a hero, the Wheaties Box. I always talked about this.

Bruce Jenner, he was an icon to the Generation X, right? We'll call the Gen Xers. And the baby boomers, really, they grew up with OJ too at USC, the famous run. He won the Heisman. He set the record for most yards still to this day in a 14-game season. No one's ever beat that, 2,000 yards. So he was a god in a way to two different generations. Yeah, and he had crossed over like racial lines too.

Like he has a famous quote, I'm not black, I'm OJ. Right. So he and he was in movies. He was like a mainstream American icon, hero, beloved by everybody. And one of the first black spokespeople. for a major company, hurts. Harts, right. And you have to remember in the 70s,

interracial marriages were not, yeah, they're in California, but I'm saying in the East Coast down south, in the 70s and early 80s, that's not, they, a lot of people aren't cool with that. When did they marry? When did he and Nicole marry?

I mean, he has an affair with her for like two years. He's married when he meets her. Right. They marry, and I think, I want to say 85, it's like seven years later. Okay. They get married. All right.

And then they divorced or seven. separated very quickly after that. No, it's like nine, the divorce begins in 91 because she meets Keith Slamswich in early 1992. So they're divorced officially in October of 92. It takes a year to get divorced. Okay. So they have two young children together. Correct. And OJ. has two kids, older children from his previous marriage. Arnell and Jason, he had another child that died in this pool, Aaron drowned. He had a third child. Well, if OJ did it, did he really drown? She.

Her name was Aaron. Okay. Yeah. And she died in the pool at Rockingham. Okay. And they destroyed the pool and redid the pool. This is just kind of a creepy story about it. And one of his dogs died in that pool, too.

Okay. Who was the son? They speculate. Jason Simpson. Jason Simpson is in popular culture because O.J. just died. Because Bill Deere keeps saying his name. So people are saying that Jason Simpson. had something to do with this murder as well. Because of Bill Deere. Now, did he, in your estimation?

No, absolutely not. He had nothing to do with it. Memorial Day weekend is almost here, and it's time to kick off summer right. When I'm getting ready for the first big weekend of summer, Total Wine and More is my go-to, especially when I'm firing up the grill with family. I'll grab refreshing beers, easy drinking wines, and some hard celtzers for the cooler. And with everything that goes into summer, it's nice knowing you're getting the lowest prices. Total Wine and More. Your Memorial Day made easy. Shop total wine and more in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly must be 21. Was Nicole Simpson the night she was murdered supposed to have dinner with Jason Simpson?

Supposedly Jason wanted to make dinner for them. And so that's what Bill Deere drives this, like this whole charade. Who is Bill Deere? He's the investigator that created the Jason did its theory on discovery ID called OJ is innocent. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because that's how we were talking about that. That was when you look it up on the internet, the only conspiracy that you can find about a second person an accomplice to OJ is his son. And or Glenn Rogers, which is from Norman Pardo. So you have two major conspiracy theories. Okay. And Glenn and Glenn Rogers was a serial killer. Okay. And they alleged that he had something to do with it. Norman Pardo says, he thinks that Glenn Rogers murdered Ron and Nicole.

And sometimes he says OJ's there. Then sometimes OJ's not there. And he hired OJ. These guys, they have a mental illness. Okay. So there's nothing, but there's nothing that substantiates.

Absolutely not. They lie about the evidence. I've caught both of them lying. I've had multiple conversations with them. They run every time. Okay. So great. So those are out of the way,

just for anybody that needed to know that. Because people write me all the time and say, did you look at Glenn Rogers? Did you look at Jason Simpson? I try to be nice to these people. It's okay. This is 30 years of information. So I get it.

But I've been saying this for seven years. So. Okay. So these murders take place. OJ. has a flight that night out. Looks real suspicious. Tell us about that. So OJ does get on the plane at about 1145.

His plane takes off. He's going to Chicago. Yes, for a golf tournament for Hertz. He does get on the plane. He makes it back there. Do you know when he booked that ticket? I don't know exactly, probably a week or so ago. You're trying to say like if it's premeditated.

That's important, right? To me, if you look at my story or my interviews, there's no premeditation to this murder. Okay, fascinating. That's huge. Most people think that this was at least premeditated by a few days. You know, he, there's a ton of calls that the prosecution played for the jury. Right. It was just lost on them.

It was Nicole saying he's. going to kill me, he's going to kill me. You're saying this is completely spur the moment. It was a rage killing. Well, it's set by Joey Apolito and Charlie that set an extortion. We'll get, we'll get there. Okay. But this was not a premeditated. He's triggered. Right, right. Okay. So, uh, so this was no, this was not premeditated whatsoever. That's no evidence of that. Hey guys, today's episode is sponsored by our longtime partner, Moved. You're a fan of the show. You know Mood by now. They are my favorite online. dispensary. But wait, they've made some changes. Mood has long been associated with Delta 8,

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Okay. So when does, and everybody knows, you know, the outcome of the case, obviously. It was, you know, he was found not guilty after, you know, like a basically two-year trial. Did the prosecution, before we start poking holes in the official narrative, did the prosecution have evidence of an accomplice? of an accomplice. Yes. And did they refuse to admit it in court?

Correct. They undiscover it. So just like the defense, because I know some of the investigators from OJ's team personally, I also have the discovery file from the case that no one's ever seen. I'm the only civilian who has it.

Not to make this about me, but I'm the only person that has it. So the prosecution and defense both knew there were bloody shoe prints at the crime scene 10 and a half parallel line print. Not OJ. He's a 12 and he's a Z shape. Okay. So there's multiple pieces.

There's blood evidence. There's fingerprints. There's shoes and there's a hat in the Bronco. There's multiple. What I meet, what I'm trying to get at is when you're a prosecutor or a defense team, you have the right to undiscover something. So say you see their shoe prints, you undiscover it. You don't tell them they're there.

And that's legal. Yes. So there's fingerprints? And we have what's called the Brady law, right? Where if there's exculpatory evidence, you're supposed to, both sides have to see it. But if you're an investigator for LAPD, right? And you see there's other shoeprints. But in your head, you only want OJ.

That could be, that's one of the cops. When they showed up, there's cops, you know, trampling the crime scene. That's one of the cops' shoe prints. Let's not submit that in evidence. So it wasn't the prosecution. It was the actual investigators, the cops that didn't give the evidence. Both. They work together. The prosecutor, the district attorney, Gilgarsetti, Marsha Clark, David Khan, Hodgman, Kelb. They all looking at the same evidence. Remember that. They have to. Okay. And the defense is seeing the same thing. Uh-huh. That's what a discovery file. That's why I have these boxes that go up to like here. That's inside. I don't have all every page of it. That'd be a tractor, trailer truck. But what I'm saying is you see what they're showing each other. Right. So I have to show you when Cato Kaliner, Ellen Park gives a statement. I need to hand it to you. And, And you need to hand me your, when you interview them.

And it goes back and forth. They all have the same files. Is that public record? How did you get your hands on that? I can't say. Okay. Can you talk around it? You know, you're trying to get people to believe you.

Yeah. I understand. How did you get your hands on that? I got it through, I got about four months ago. And it took me three years to get it. And a guy was brave enough before he dies that he basically gave it to me. Okay. He was close to OJ.

Wow. So did they run the fingerprints? And was there a match on them? We don't know. So there's supposedly 15 fingerprints at the crime scene that do not match OJ. Ron or Nicole. I don't know what the result is because in the discovery file, I don't have the actual fingerprint stuff there.

Okay. So I don't know. I have the root hairs in the hat, item 27. But everybody knows about the rude hairs in the hat. Not until I told them. Well, that's why people suspect, and correct me if I'm wrong, people suspect Jason Simpson. I'm talking about the hat in the Bronco, not the beanie cap of your time. Okay, so let's talk about this.

Yeah, sure. Let's, again, we got to paint it like these people are 10-year-olds. Sure. There was two hats found at the scene. There's one hat found at the crime scene. One at the crime scene. And that had a black African-American man's hair. Correct.

Was that matched to OJ? Yes. That was matched to OJ. Yes. But OJ will tell you no. See, they'll say it didn't match. Because remember, DNA's in the infancy. So there's a lot of speculation.

And they had a fight over how many hairs were they going to get? So there was like a hearing, two hairs, 30, 60, 100, five hairs. They play it out in the FX docu series. I don't know if you ever watched it. OJ. on FX. Yeah. They play that out this hair thing. And it shows how Marsha Clark's kind of like, what are they doing?

And what they're saying is what the writers are trying to show you is, they're going to fight you on every single thing you say, every single thing you ask for, they are not going to give you. Okay. So that, but that hair was matched to OJ. Yes. Okay. So.

And Mark Furman calls it a ski mask. Now, I have that in the discovery file, which is a fascinating piece of evidence. Some of it's online. But I have the actual forms, the photocopies in 1994 from Mark Furman's notes. So it's like a relic, right? So you're holding it. He says there's a ski mask. What, do you think it was a ski mask?

It's not. It's the hat. He's look, he can't touch it. So is it like a beanie cap? Yeah, yeah, like a burglar cap. Okay, I see. He looks out of it. He thinks it's a ski mask.

So, but this is a pre- this is not a premeditated thing. This is not a premeditated murder. Why would he go dress like it was? Because he kept the hat in his car for golfing when it was cold. Right. So this is midnight. It does get cold. In his driving gloves, the isotoneers are in the car.

I don't know. That's so sketchy to me. It seems like it's a premeditated murder. It's like, I know it gets cold in Los Angeles at night, but does OJ? He golfs at like 6 a.m. Right. Remember, it's June. So was e-golfing in January?

He golfed all the time. So why wouldn't he have possibly a hat? Now it's a scary looking cap. I know what you're saying. Why would you wear a burglar cap on the golf course at the Riviera? You're wearing a burglar cap? Why not wear something else? So I don't look, I'm going to tell you this right now, friend to friend.

You're going to see a lot of things in this case that are not going to make sense. Right. Now, the second hat in the Bronco. That's a paper boy newsy mafia cap. Okay. and were they able to get any DNA out of that? I don't know what they ran. Now they find two rude hairs in there that Susan Brockbank tells Marsha Clark only one time in the trial.

They never talk about this hat. And I even talked to one OJ's lawyers recently. He's like 80 years old. He's fascinated by what I'm doing. He goes, why didn't we ever use that hat as evidence? I go, I don't know, sir, you're the lawyer. He's like, I can't even believe what's going on. Okay.

So you have two hats. you've got shoe prints, blood shoe prints that don't match OJ, gloves that don't fit OJ, even though we know the gloves, I don't know, I kind of want to put the gloves aside. I understand, yeah, yeah, that's like its own thing. It's drenched in blood, it shrank by the time it got to court. That's very interesting.

They would freeze the glove as evidence. So it would freeze and unfreeze, freeze and unfreeze. Was there any other physical or DNA evidence that they collected? that would have pointed to an accomplice. Blood evidence in the Bronco and at the Bundy. Blood that didn't match O.J. Or Nicole or Ron.

What kind of, what type of blood was that? Well, I don't know the exact type. I'm just telling you there's blood evidence. So how do they know it's not his blood if they don't have the blood type? Because they type it against OJ, Ron, and Nicole. And it doesn't match any of them. How do you match it to someone if you don't know who you're looking for? Sure.

But was it the same blood type? OJ had a super rare blood type. No. Okay. Now, Barry Sheck in his closing arguments says under Nicole's nails are a type B, blood and tissue, inner nails. That's not O.J. Ron or Nicole. So who's a type B? I don't know what Ehrlich's type is. I don't. Could I pull his trash? Yes. Could I have a P.I. pull his trash and run his DNA? Yes, I'm not doing that right now. Okay. So, very check. Yeah. That's big. And so none of this was introduced in court. None of it was even followed up with it by the cops.

Wow. The hat literally, when the jury's looking up like at boards, they put on these easels, these boards, the hat is staring at you in the face. No one says a word about it. It's like it's invisible. It's unbelievable. Now, you mentioned that one of the reasons that the prosecution might not have done that, might not have introduced all of this other element is because they didn't want to overcomplicate it for the jury. Well, it shows doubt. So now it's, if you show these four shoe prints that Henry Lee circles and goes someone else there.

Well, he's for the defense. See, in a case, it's what side of the fence you're on. It's easy to be like, oh, he works for OJ. Of course he said there's other shoe prints there. Well, he's the number one expert in the world. He's Dr. Henry Lee. They have an institute named after him. Odin said there's two killers too.

So did Dr. Irwin Golden, but you didn't want to believe him. See, so he shows the, I have a picture of it. There's bloody shoe prints walking out to the back gate that are a 10 and a half parallel line print. It's not OJ. OJ is a 12 and Z shape. They're in opposites. Yeah. So it wasn't like obviously they wanted OJ, but they didn't feel.

And I can understand that. The prosecution's already dealing with an incredibly biased jury. One of the guys was a Black Panther, who they let, they missed that one. You know, they have now. He throws up this. That's throws up the fist. All these old black ladies on that documentary are like, we didn't care what they said. That verdict was coming down.

Because they hated the LAPD. Of course. And understandable. But so that's why the prosecution didn't even want to, didn't even want to touch this because, yeah, it's even more doubt that maybe OJ really didn't do it. Maybe it was the guy he was with. Now, here's the thing, because you're a smart guy. Now, let me paint it to you this way. Let me paint it to you this way.

Okay. What if I'm, what if I'm one of the PIs or I'm an investigator and I come to you? You're the prosecutor, right? you're the plaintiff in a way you're representing the state and i come to you and i go i think there's somebody else there and you go well i don't want to hear it but i go no there's evidence there's someone else there we have a problem we have a problem are you going to ignore what i just told you as an investigator and just go for it and that's why they lost and that's why the greatest defense team in history the dream team annihilated these if you really watch it it was domination it's hard to explain

It was total dominate. Every time Barry Schick, Peter Newfeld or Cochran or Shapiro or Yulman or Blazier or Douglas got up there, game over. Yeah. Every witness, Fung, Mazzola. Did you read the manual on how to process a crime scene? No, why? Like, they're like, why didn't you read the manual? Oh, I just didn't.

And everyone, and you could see Marsha Clark just like fidgeting in her chair. Like every time they had Dennis Fung on the stand for nine days. He's the one who had crum. had criminalists that collected the evidence nine days. Yeah. Yeah, it was brilliant legal theater. Like something from... There'll never be anything like it ever again, ever.

So the account, so before we start going back in time to talk about OJ's links to the mob, to Coke running, to Charlie. And I want to say something about that real quick. Sure. So now you're the prosecutor and you're all the famous people are around you about this murder, right? And then you start to find out. that's mob. Now there's another problem. So when Joey Appalito puts out a couple threats, now what do you think happens to? I wouldn't say anything if I were you. Why do you think that

guy came forward just recently in the Daily Mail and said they put a gun in my mouth up on Moholland? Yeah. Who would he have been threatening? Who would Joey Appalito have been threatened? Well, this guy, I won't say the guy's name. He did an article with a PI. It's online. You can look it up. He said this 30 years ago. Then when O.J. died, he came forward right away. like the same week. Oh, the guy, the mob guy put a gun in my mouth, but I won't say his name. Who is the guy, though? I don't know who it is. But what, why do we know why, Joey's threatening? Because the mob was involved in the murders. The mob was, I get that, but why, what does Joey Appolito have to do with the prosecution? This guy was, and do we know

who that guy is and how he's involved in the case? Is he a witness? This is what I'm, the guy who did the article was in, he went to jail for 20 days for contempt of court because he was in a hearing, a case with Al Collings and gambling. He was, if he started to say things about the murders and like what, you better start saying what you know and he wouldn't talk. So they put him in jail for 20 days. So Al Cowlings is the guy. AC.

AC is the guy in the white Bronco with OJ. OJ's best friend. During the chase, the infamous. Right. So please be thorough and detailed in everything that occurred and everybody that was an official witness from Cato Caelan. to AC, walk us again through the night of the murder and the official account of the murder all the way up to the time of OJ's arrest, please.

And then we're going to... Up to OJ's arrest. Okay, yeah. And so let's not talk about the witnesses yet. You're asking me to recite the Bible right now. So just let's just take it. The bodies are found. Okay, the police come.

Everyone shows up. They say, okay, we got found two murder victims. It's OJ's wife. That sets off the media. there comes the media storm like nothing you've ever seen. And her head is almost off. Correct. Decapitated.

Yeah. Okay. Ron is very nasty wounds also, which were hard to see because his clothes were like tucked up, but he is slaughtered too. Okay. So the media catches it, goes crazy. They're all thinking O.J. Okay?

Right. Right. So they tell OJ to come back. He flies back from Chicago. Shows back up about 11.30, 12 noon. Kardashian grabs the bag, walks away with the bag. This starts. OJ's luggage, Rob Kardashian, grabs the bag.

This is a big part of the story. And the LAPD doesn't even see him do it. So everyone's like, there's all these things are flying around. Like it's going so fast. They cuff OJ. Now famous photo of him in handcuffs in his yard at Rockingham. Howard Whitesman is his attorney at the time. He's going to get the boot soon.

OJ agrees to go to the police station, give his blood, and talk to the police without his attorney, which is unheard of. And he does like over a 40 minute interrogation. It's taped. It's on YouTube. You can hear it. It's public. Okay.

So O.J. does that. Oh, yeah, we always have problems. Like he's going through the whole thing. I wasn't home. I got on a plane.

Did he have an alibi? Well, his alibi is asleep. That's what he says he's sleeping. Well, wasn't he supposed to be on a plane? But before that, he's not,

the murders happen at 10. 35 to 10. Right. Right. So where's OJ at 1035 to 10. 10. Okay. And we can get into Jill Shively who says she sees him drive, crash the car at 10.50 p.m. So that's what they're trying to say is, where are you during the murders? I overslept.

Why can't a man just be at his house? That's what he keeps saying over the years. Why do I have to come from myself? I'm at home. Well, that's the problem. There's nobody else home with you. Cato's in the back house. Arnell supposedly is at the movies. Who's Arnell? The daughter, OJ's daughter. Right. Okay. So, all right. So just speeding forward. So everyone's looking at. at OJ. Cameras. He's with Weitzman.

That's when Whitesman does the famous line. Like he goes, hey, man, I know you got to ask the questions, but he's not going to talk to you. Like, that's the famous. These are like iconic imagery, which you know.

Okay. O.J. is let free for about four days. Okay. The Bronco chase is going to happen on the 17th. So when they issue the warrant and Gascon, funny name, Gascon, again, comes on and goes,

we have issued a warrant for OJ Simpson. he is a fugitive. We're actively searching for O.J. Simpson because he escapes Rob Kardashian's house on June 17th. He drives to Nicole's grave with AC in the white Bronco, which is AC's Bronco. Not the murder vehicle. That's in evidence. He owned the identical car. Fascinating.

I didn't even know that. So the Bronco that they went in the chase, took the cops on the chase on it is not the Bronco with all the blood in it. That's totally. From OJ's house. That's evidence. It's in evidence. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Yeah. So he bought the same vehicle. That was a hot car. That was a fly car back then. Yeah.

And I think Paula Barbieri had one too. That was OJ's girlfriend. So anyway, so they drive, he's suicidal at this point. He has a gun to his head in the car. Yeah. Okay. He drives to Nicole's grave, which is in Orange County, California. And he goes to visitor one last time.

He's thinking of blowing his head off right at the grave. AC's telling him, don't do it, don't do it. Okay. They get back in the. Bronco. Now they're coming north on the 405. Now everyone knows, everybody in their mother, unless you live under a rock, knew that he is, the juice is loose. The Orange County Sheriff begins the pursuit first. They're not in L.A. yet. They know where he is. They were already on him. Somebody ratted him out. I saw O.J. screaming at the grave. He's yelling like, it's your fault.

Wow. Yeah. At the grave. At Nicole. Because he's about to murder himself. He gets back in the Bronco, he's got the gun. He tells Paul Berry, he pulls the trigger. The towel stops the trigger, the hammer. Mm-hmm. To put that in her book, the other woman. Do you believe that? I do. I do. I believe he is a narcissist. You think he would really kill himself? Yes, absolutely. He was way messed up in that. Okay. Way messed up. He loved Nicole. He love Nicole. And I know we say, oh, he hated love and hate are not the opposite. Indifference is the opposite of love. So he was a mess. okay a mess now we see the bronco everyone's watched know where they were he's coming up people are at the signs on the side of the road and ac saying don't do it don't do it that's why you hear him on

the phone call and that's tom lang the detective come on o j everybody loves you don't do it man don't do it and oj's trying to do it and you hear ac panicking don't do it so they finally come to rockingham he finally agrees after like this long chase he finally agrees he pulls in that's when jason runs out to the car and they pull him back. They were going to sniper him. The guy came forward and said, we're going to kill OJ right there, right there in the car. That's why they're pulling Jason back. Like, get, get back. Right.

Bing. Yeah. This was, he was a fugitive. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, then he comes in. Now you see that he has no tie on. He's got the shirt buttoned up.

They didn't let him sleep. He's all tired and he looks into the arraignment, not guilty. Like that's that famous story. He has no tie, but it's buttoned up. He can see he's missing. a tie. They were like torturing them in the jail. Anyway, now he's fully arrested and now it's go time. We're building to the preliminary hearing. All the characters like Kate O'Kalen, Alan Park, things are leaking out. Jill Shively,

she saw him. The news is everywhere. They're interviewing everyone. Faye Restnick's going to write a book. Okay. While the trial's going on. Stephen Singular's writing a book, who is a reporter that wrote Legacy of Deception. He's getting stuff about Furman early on. He's telling the defense. There's so much. Yeah. No, of course. Well, the rest is history, as we say. Right. You know, the Mark Furman tapes, him saying the N word, the fact that the blood collection, DNA was brand new, and the defense was able to show that there was blood collection that was mishandled. On later, they don't find blood in the Bronco for three weeks. Right. They don't find blood on the

socks for two weeks. Like there's all these delays like and they're like so. But insane. So much evidence against him. Sure. That it's today it's like open and shut. You know, he's probably not even taking it to trial. That's why they said there's too much evidence.

Right. They told them that. I said this in my last interview. Right. There's too much evidence. They told the prosecution there's a problem. Joseph Bosco wrote the book, a problem of evidence. There was so much.

But because they didn't know there was an accomplice, They were doomed. They were doomed. Now look, you're right. Look, OJ's blood's in his driveway. It's in his foyer. It's in his sink drain. It's at Bundy next to his, there's a lot.

I mean, it's so obvious, right? Do you think if they had, it would have been easier to get a conviction if they had introduced this accomplice theory? Yes. Why? Because he could have routed OJ out and they could have squeezed Joey and Charlie for like, once they knew, if they, if they figured out it was our right with OJ. Now they squeeze him. Flip on OJ.

How could they have found Ehrlich? How did they know who this guy was? I know there's people that knew he was there. I know mob guys that know he was there. They would have to do some investigating, squeezing some people, right? Marsha Clark's office called the U.S. Marshal and goes, where is it, Bolito? Where is he? Like he's on the run.

We don't know where he is. Where is he? See, they already were thinking like he's in. involved like something's up so is that do you have proof of that marcia clark was talking about joey mcel carc someone from her office okay it's in the guy's book his name is mike he wrote a book came out years ago but i only just saw it the u.s marshal puts in his book that they called and said where's it belito because he tells a story like we're looking for this guy for a year they didn't find him until december okay okay joey is the precipice of this murder yeah absolutely hey guys i hope you're

loving this episode with chris todd just a reminder that i am coming out to do stand-up comedy on the road next month. In June, June 20th, I will be at the Tempe Improv. That's in Phoenix, Arizona, one night only. And then June 21st and 22nd, I will be in Fort Worth, Texas. That's Dallas, Fort Worth, at the Big Laughs Comedy Club. I'm doing four shows over there. Get your tickets at linktree.com slash johnny Mitchell.

The link is in the description of this episode. And then you could always go to my Instagram. and I've got the link on the page there. Linktree.com slash Johnny Mitchell. I will see you out on the road. All right, back to Chris Tom. Okay, so now let's talk about what was really going on. Take us back to O.J. Simpson in Buffalo in the 80s.

Tell us about his Coke problem. The 70s. The 70s. Sure. Tell us about who he started running around with, his connection to the mob, his coke habit and how that all comes together that night at Bundy. That's a lot. I'll try to give it to straight, short.

A woman wrote a book, her name was Sheila Weller. She wrote a book called Raging Heart. Raging Heart is the best book to read to understand OJ's relationships with the mob guys. Joe Stelini and how he met him and how he met Rob Kardashian and who Rothschild was. and you have, there's Tom McNeff, forgot his last name, McCollum, and all these guys, okay? Here's the short answer.

When OJ goes to Buffalo, this is early 70s, this is, he only went to college for two years. Just two years at Juko, two years at USC. And then gets drafted by Buffalo. Number one. Yep. Okay. And he's already meeting these shady L.A. mob guys right away.

In Buffalo? In L.A. Okay. In L.A. Okay. In Buffalo, he knew a couple guys, Butchukarski, Mike Militello, they owned a club. They were looked at for cocaine. He knew these guys.

What I'm trying to get at is, it's not rip-roaring yet. His real mob stuff is early 90s. It's not going to be like in the 70s. He's like a kid, man. He's a kid. Okay. So do you think his Coke problem got worse when he retired after he retired? Supposedly he was always up and down because OJ will tell you he never does Coke.

He would tell you, if he was still alive today, he will tell you with a straight face. I'd done it like twice in 30 years. Lie. So he was supposedly using it in the 70s. There was a couple instances where he was being investigated. And so was Mike Militello. But Scherke got murdered by the mob in Miami in 94, right after the murders. What a coincidence.

How does he know Butch Sukarsky? It's called Casey's Nickelodeon. Look up the murders. It was a triple murder. He goes kill with two other. other girls. And were those were those mob guys that were selling Coke to OJ? Colombian mob killers. And they were selling Coke, these guys that they were somehow involved. Okay. So anyway, so moving on. So I'm going to take you to Aventura, which is Turnberry Isle.

So in the 70s in Buffalo, yeah, Buffalo mob was big, the Buffalo crime family. I knew a guy told me, OJ was at a restaurant. He's like, I saw so many mob guys at this restaurant. And then OJ. Simpson walked in. He's like, he looks so out of place. And I was like, hey, thanks for telling me the story. So he was having some touching. them in the 70s as the 80s come now we're going to turnberry aisle the playland of the rich in miami it was called aventura turnberry aisle and that's a neighborhood in miami it's a resort okay all the rich famous donna rice scandal came out of there gary heart all the rich famous men used to go there for the girls pretty girls and the drugs and they used to joke oh the 30th floor and up

is all mob like so like in the building like if you went past this floor, all mafia. The place was built by the mob. Don Sofer. Now, who does O.J. think in his suicide letter? Don Sofer. Why? Thanks, B. Wayne Hughes. These are his golf buddies at Aventura,

at Turnberry Isle. This is where they hung out and partied. And that's where Joey Appalito is. And that's where Joey and Charlie, I believe me, in the 80s. I see. And that's where they met O.J. Okay. So OJ was always kind of brushing shoulders with these white collar criminals, with these white collar mob guys.

Basically, their vice was drugs and beautiful women. So put them together. They're at Aventura in Miami. And I can totally see that because OJ, again, was like the black guy that was always running in white guy circles. The guy could get more women and you could shake a stick out in his sleep. That too. Yeah.

In his sleep. He wasn't jealous of Nicole. He slept with Farah Fawcett. I'm going to say it right now and he slept with Elizabeth's shoe. Nice. And I'm going to put that out there because I know their people are going to go crazy and I want them to come forward. So, and Tony Cotane. And OJ had a lot of, look, we know a lot of white women like black men.

They did. Okay. So now the golfing, the drugs, the boats. Now, remember the boats, Don Arino, Joey Applito, Ben Kramer, Bobby Sassenti. These are the cocaine. Cowboys, Sal Magluda, right? Willie Falcone. I met some of these guys.

They knew it too. Oh, yeah, OJ, OJ. I have a picture of OJ buying a speedboat from Thomas Adams. Well, what happened to Thomas Adams four weeks later? He got murdered. Gunned down by Colombians. So the Colombians dealt the Coke to the mob through Miami. Now, if you remember, even when the case started and they go, well, Colombian drug lords did the killing.

Well, it's partially true, isn't it? Like there's a connection there. So the OJ connection is he likes to be in this scene with all these hot women and he likes good Coke. And the mob has the good Coke. They're getting it from the Colombians. And the girls. They run prostitution.

They run all the clubs. Yeah. And he's this, he's world famous now. And they love to have. And they love that. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.

Did he ever introduce drug dealers to distributors? Like, did he ever. introduce Coke dealers to guys that wanted to get in the game. Are we talking about the 80s or we're talking 94? Like right before the murders. Either one. Let's focus on the murders. Okay.

Okay. So basically the way through Charlie's confession, through his tape, evidence, the book he was supposed to write, all the stuff, the stuff I discovered about Joey Apolito, his brothers, the families, the mob, all the stuff that we go into. Joey was giving OJ kickbacks for introducing celebrities and athletes to him to purchase drugs. Okay. That's right before the murders, maybe even years before. I can't hard confirm how much drug dealing was done before, let's say, 93 and 94.

Why would OJ, who's got a ton of money still in 94? He doesn't. Why? He doesn't play football anymore. Yeah, but he's got Hertz commercials, sponsorships. I mean, did he blow him? at all. But let's remember, these football guys did not make that much money in the 70s. Go look at what they made compared to today. Go look at what Patrick Mahomes makes today to what OJ

was paid as the number one pick. I think he made 250 grand. Now granted, back then, that's probably three or four million. It's not 50 million dollars. Like, so my, what my point is, he didn't have that much money. That's why Charlie tells you that. He needed to fill in these gaps because he, because Charlie tells you the reasoning behind like the money situation. You feel me? How do you, how does Charlie, how do you know that? Because that's in the confession. Okay, that's in Charlie's confession.

It's in the screenplay and it's on the tape. Interesting. That OJ still needed to make money. He had a lot of bills. He owed Nicole 30 grand a month. Right. In child support. Yeah, of course.

And he was not making that. He tells you that in his book too in chapter six before like Charlie even shows up. He goes into the story of like, I'm not what I used to be. my body's breaking down. I'm not making as much money as I used to make, but I'm a fighter. I'm a hustler. I'm going to keep going.

And then a car shows up. Oh, whose car is that? That's how he leads you. I didn't talk to my dad for 10 years. He's trying to tell you like in about two minutes, my life is going to change forever. He's reminiscing.

It's fascinating. Chapter 6 is a fascinating chapter. But so... Okay, so he kind of needed money still. Remember, Nicole's doing Coke. Faye Restnik's doing Coke. They're all doing Coke. The whole town's on cocaine.

So what better to have the best Colombian puto cocaine in the world is at your house with the hottest chicks you've ever seen. Think about that. So OJ might have been like the gateway to good Coke for all of the celebrities in L.A. at the time. Ippolito used Ippolito used Ehrlich to run. the Coke from Miami to him. Joey's the alpha male. He threatened to murder Ehrlich before.

He already threw him in a trunk. He was almost murdered. They tell you that in the screenplay. They tell you that on the tape. And so Ippolito was using OJ because he's given OJ free shit. And he basically is bringing the women and the actors and OJ is getting paid to introduce Joey. Okay.

Hold on. Finish that. So Joey is using OJ. for the customers. Right. Introduce me to your celebrity friends. Who have a Coke problem. Yeah.

And I will... Give you 10 grand every freaking two seconds. Right. Joey was... Joey had like horses. He owned like boats. These guys were loaded. You know this.

Look, you have experience with this. Okay. So it's... I got it. I got it. So just to summarize this connection, it's the New Jersey-based mob operating in Miami

that's sourcing the cocaine from the Colombians and in LA distributing him, distributing those drugs through celebrities, two celebrities through OJ Simpson. Yes, with other mob families. So Joey's also using Lucchese and Bonano. Okay.

And that's why he gets busted with Lucchase and Bonano guys. So is that eventually what happened to Joey at Bolito? Yes, he was pinched and James Con went to his trial and said, I'll put up my house. James Con was mob. Wow. Yes. Did he get pinched in L.A.?

92. He was pinched with Ronnie Lorenzo, Operation Lassima, L.A. Sicilian mafia. You can look it up. It's online. And James Con had to go to the trial and say, this is my guy. He would never do anything like that. James Con was mob. Okay. So was his father.

So an Ippolito died in prison? No, Ippolito died of terminal brain cancer in 2006. He went to jail in and out. He was an informant. He kept getting out. Okay. Yeah. I see.

All right. So that's the guy that O.J.'s getting his Coke from. And he's got a, basically, a worker. What would you call him? They call him the ghost. Charlie's the ghost. But what was his function for Ippolito? Was he a maid guy or was he just an associate?

I don't think he's made because they say the Jews couldn't be made. So he's Jewish. So they try to, that's why we say Genovese crime family, Meyer Lansky, because they became the Genovese. That's the OG. The Jews created the mafia with the Italians.

People don't give them that credit. They did. Meyer Lansky was a kingpin. Okay. And Luciano was part of them. Anyway, so what I'm saying is Joey and Charlie, he calls Charlie the ghost. You run the stuff. You're behind the scenes.

You bring me the keys to the car. In the trunk is loaded with cocaine. You come and you physically hand me the keys. So Ehrlich would fly from Miami as the runners, the Colombians, are running it to L.A. It's all described. Okay. So he was the handler. He was the guy that was handling everything for Joey in L.A.

I call him the ghost. So you might call him the runner, right? He's kind of the runner. Joey's the front man for Ippolito in L.A. 50 kilos a month. Okay, got it. So this is a multi-million dollar year operation. Beyond anything you could imagine.

And OJ. was getting 10% of that. Sure. I don't know exactly. But it's conceivable. He was making hundreds of thousands of dollars by basically being the agent for these Coke dealers. Them being the coolest guy in town that you have the biggest best Coke in the game. But the problem is that Joey Ippolito was a. snake. Okay. That's the problem. He brought the wolf to the hen house. Where was, was,

where is Charlie from? Charlie Ehrlich. New York. Okay. So he lives in Miami. Okay. So he becomes friends with, would you call them friends? He barely knew OJ. He just met him. Really? Yep. Three months before. Why just met him? He was in jail. Okay. He was in jail for like seven and a half years from like 87 to like 93. It's very hard to pin when he got out. Right when he gets out. Right. When he gets Ippolito goes, why don't you come work for me and be the ghost. He's like, I hate L.A. That's why he tells the story. He talks like this.

I didn't want to go to L.A. Why'd you go to L.A.? Because they're making millions of dollars. And he's afraid of Joey too. Joey was, dude, this guy, I'm telling you, not many people know his name. And I know a lot of the mob guys. You know, I love those guys.

I know some of those guys. Joey is on another level, man, with the OJ thing. He is, he's the legend. Yeah. Well, because he's from the New Jersey mob, which nobody talks about. Right. They don't get the respect.

But they were very close to Meyer Lansky. They were. That boat running operation was Meyer and Sam the Plummer was involved in that too. He's Decaval Conte. That's him. So they try to downplay. I just watched an interview where they go, oh, the New Jersey, we didn't care about the New Jersey mob. Dude, those guys were way connected, man.

Okay. Yeah. I actually buy all of this. I buy that OJ is spending. more than he's bringing in. And really this Coke money, this Coke commission money is really helping him stay solvent. So, Charlie Ehrlich meets OJ

three months before June 12th when the murders go down. And this is described in the confession, how they meet at Rockingham. Hey, I'm A.C., hey, I'm OJ. Hey, Charlie, come in. I want you to meet somebody. Joey was staying at OJ's house. Joey was. On and off. Well, because remember, Nicole's gone. Right, right.

The kids are with Nicole. He's scheduling it out. He lives alone. Is he partying with Nicole? Like Nicole's doing Coke. They're still dating at the very end. They still dated. It's hard to explain.

Even after their divorce, Nicole got back together with OJ about a year later. So for two and a half years, they're divorced, right? For the first year, she's playing around a little bit. The last year, she gets back with OJ, but she's also sleeping with Marcus Allen. Who is who? Marcus Allen, the running back. Oh, Marcus Allen. Oh.

Wow. And OJ told her if you sleep with Marcus Allen, I'll kill you. What about Ron Goldman? Do we know for sure that they were sleeping together? Who is this kid? If you want to ask me and go into it, there's things I know about him that no one doesn't, that no one's ever heard. I could talk about today if you want. Yes, please. They were not lovers. They only hung out three times. And they met at that restaurant he was working at? There's 50 stories of how they met. They met at a gym first, then they met at Starbucks. I guess they met at a gym. There's a Jim in Brentwood. I believe that's where they met.

How do you know they weren't sleeping together? Well, the way I say it is this. There's no proof that they did. Okay. Now, in the discovery file, I will say this. I'll give you an exclusive because I appreciate you having me on. I have a statement from one of Ron's friends that no one's ever seen. It's not.

You can never get it. I have it from one of his friends that talks about Nicole talking to him on the phone for a few nights and that Ron was. was in love with Nicole Brown Simpson. Right. So, but they had just met, basically. They'd only been out a few times. He asked her to go back to his place one time.

He tried to get with Nicole. Okay. And you're the first person never hear that. Okay. So what is he doing there that night? He's bringing back the glasses that Judita Brown dropped on the sidewalk at Mezzaluna. Okay. So Mezaluna is the restaurant that Nicole was eating at.

At her last supper at. Right. Before she came back to her house on Monday. And Ron worked, was working that night as he's a waiter at Mezaluna. Who is she there at Mezzaluna? Her family. There was a recital. Okay.

It was after the recital at the Paul Revere school. OJ was there. Ron Fishman is the famous story. And then they go to Mezzaluna for dinner. OJ's supposed to go, but they don't invite him. So he's met. I mean, this is all the classic.

And of course, he's on so much blow. His toxicology report, all of their toxicology reports come back negative. Just so you know, I have it. Wow. Yeah. So actually,

but remember, blow leaves your system in 24 hours. That's true. So did they do it the night before? Maybe were they, did the LAPD mess up the top? Who knows? Oh, just if it didn't need blow to be crazy. It's all negative. So I'll just stick up for that.

So do you believe, so in your best estimation, that story about him returning the glasses to her house is true. Yes. So that means. And everyone says he's a drug dealer and he had a pager and he was slinging cocaine. And so was Brett Cantor and so was Michael Nick. Why is he working as a waiter though? It's, man, I'm telling you, like, when you, I'm glad you are opening this Pandora's box.

This OJ thing is the craziest stuff you've ever heard in your life. The people that are going to comment on your thing are completely gone. Okay. So be ready for those comments and the thing, which is fine. But I'm saying this thing is a monster. Okay. It's a spider web. Hang on.

So, uh, so how he must have known. Ron Goldman, how did he know where Nicole lived? He, I don't think he'd ever be. been at Nicole's house, to be honest, I really don't. Now, here's, the way he would know is because Nicole calls and goes, can you bring the glasses by? And so Mezzaluna must be right down the street. Oh, yeah, it's close.

So Nicole calls and says, my mom, Judita calls Nicole first and says, I think I left my glasses at Mezaluna, okay? Who's judea? Judith Brown. They call her Judy. She was German. They call her Judith. Okay.

So that's Nicole's mom. Oh, I see. So they all go to dinner with them. She drops the glasses. Okay. Okay. Let me call Mezaluna. she calls Karen Crawford.

Karen Crawford says, okay, I'll put him in an envelope. Sounds good. Something happens. There's like another call. And then she goes, oh,

wait, Ron's working. Right. Now she calls back and goes, hey, can I talk to Ron? He's just doing her a favor, man. Okay.

And he goes, can you bring the glasses by my house? She probably gives him the address. I don't think he was ever at her house. Oh, poor kid. I hope he got the pussy before he died, but it doesn't sound like it.

I could be wrong. I mean, look, I mean, It doesn't really matter, though. It's, it doesn't really matter to the facts of the case. He was obviously infatuated with her. Obviously.

Of course. Of course. It sounds like it, it sounds like it may have become something. A dude in the 90s. Yeah. Come on, man. But it sounds like it could have become something. It could have been.

Maybe. But she was definitely sleeping with Marcus Allen. Was O.J. But you said in another interview, I heard you say that OJ would not have cared if she was sleeping with someone else. Because the way, the reason I say that too is because OJ had cheated on Nicole so many times, okay, that you almost have to side with Nicole for a minute and just, and OJ also did say, there's times, OJ, man, he was like this, man, like sometimes he was super chill.

Oh, I didn't care. She told me she slept with Marcus Allen. She did. She took him the dinner and said, he's not your friend. And she was crying. And he's like, what are you talking about? And OJ took it well. He did.

He didn't haul off and belt her. Like he said, I don't want to know. And she's like, Marcus isn't your friend. And he's like, why are you telling? Nicole was torturing this guy too, man. She kept telling him what she was doing. And they had some weird pack like, oh, we have to tell each other. Come on, man, that's sick.

I don't want to know what you're doing with Marcus Allen. And then they tell stories about his size of his, you know what. And they say it in the book and they talk about that. Yeah. Okay. So that still doesn't, I don't really accept that. I think he cares if. if he walks in on his on Nicole with somebody with another man at the house.

Well, it sets him off when he sees Ron Golden at the front gate, right? Especially a white boy. A white boy, good looking, wearing the stylish clothing. He's standing there, you know, talking, she's barefoot in the skimpy black dress. Yeah. And he's just got extorted to, well, one or two mafia guys showed up. A mob guy just showed up and goes, you know, it's a bunch of money. And he's supposed to get on a red eye.

How ain't, and guess who breaks up with him in the morning at the, 7 a.m. Paula Barbieri leaves him a dear John message that she's leaving him. Okay. This guy had the worst day in history. Oh, okay. Well, I think Nicole had a worse one. But, okay, so, all right.

So those are, we're now setting the stage for what happened. What happens next? What is Charlie doing at OJ's house at this time when they go down to confront Nicole at 10.30? It's like 10, it's a little after 1005. Okay. We can never get the exact time. Charlie told us a time. He one time said he was there at 9.30 a.m.

It doesn't make sense. They're at McDonald's with Cato. I think he was just trying to say, like, I was there an hour before the murders and he's trying to confuse you. 9.30 p.m. Yeah. 9.3. But there's also a witness. Didn't a neighbor hear a Goldman saying, hey, hey, hey, hey.

That's at 1037, 1038. Okay. So how long do you think this whole interaction? took. Well, here, let's go walk it through it. Okay, cool. So what was Ehrlich doing at OJ's house? So OJ tell, I want to tell it through OJ's eyes. So OJ tells you, I looked at my watch. It was 10.03 p.m. The reason he says 10.03 p.m., because that's when Paul, he called Paula Barbieri for the last time to reconcile with her. She went to Vegas with Michael Bolton. Nice. So he goes, I looked at my watch. It was 10.03 p.m. Maybe Charlie was right. It wasn't my fault. It was Nicole's fault. I had just enough

time to read her the riot act because charlie showed up he's there it's hard to explain charlie shows up at about 10 10 p.m okay you owe some money joey wants his money okay oj's like what are you doing he's chipping golf balls in his front yard like what's going on what are you doing man what he's talking about where's where's joey at oh joey joey just wants his money he's got bosses we all got bosses so this sets oj off right now when i say the 1003 i'm talking about the book when he says in the book i just had just enough time to go reader of the Riot Act. So what he's saying in his head is, let's go to Nichols. Charlie, get in the Bronco. Okay, so Charlie showed up unannounced to OJ's house. Unannounced. Like, so there was some, there was some Coke debts out there. By everyone you're close to OJ,

everybody. You guys owe us money. It's an extortion. But why would OJ, what's OJ's business? Like, why is that OJ's business? Isn't he just? Because he's the one you can be extorted. He's famous. Right. he's got the money where are they going to go tell Nicole and Fay they all they use 50 grand where are they going to get their money from OJ no it's a it's a classic mob setup you go to the famous guy who can't run anybody else where's he going to go he's going to go to the cops oh this guy this mob guy's threatening to out me for cocaine so there's a bunch of celebrities that owe these mob guys money for co ever hear the story of Robin Williams where the hang on hang on I don't care about

So I don't, yeah, that's a, that's, that's tough for me. I know Coke's expensive, but like they owe 50 grand in Coke money, 100 grand of Coke money to these mob guys. Extortion. They don't owe it. It's a setup. So they're just, ask your mob guys. Ask your boys. I don't need to ask these guys.

No, I don't know what you're saying. Mob guys don't act like this. Okay, go ahead. This is not a thorough. The mob guys I've had on this show would never do this. They would never extort someone? not if they got a hustle like this selling Coke to people with big money. That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Let's do the showdown because I like you and your respectful guy. Ready? Let's do the showdown. Do you think mob guys extort people? Yes. Okay. So then why would it be different if Joey Appletal extorts OJ? Because they're making huge money out of him.

They're making mob guys, if that's a business, yeah, they shake down businesses in their neighborhood that's on a collection route. Sure. Okay. But if they're making money through a construction company that's, whether it's legal or illegal, and the money's flowing, they don't just then go pull like a strong arm move unless something's gone really bad for them. Do you know what I mean? It's like a drug dealer. I'm selling drugs to you.

Okay. This is the best way to describe it. Forget about if they're mobbed up or not. You are my drug customer. I'm selling you drugs. Why do I then go and rob you as my customer? unless you owe me a bunch of money, right? What I'm saying is it seems fishy to me

that I would let a bunch of Hollywood celebrities run up drug debts. Crackheads in the ghetto, yes, pay me back when your government check comes on the first and the 15th. That's how you keep the clientele up. But why am I letting, you know, why am I letting all these celebrities run up huge debts?

Okay, here's all. I'll say how Ehrlich says it too. Okay. In the confession, in the story, and all the whole thing. Okay. So when Ehrlich shows up, he goes, Joey wants, you guys, your payments are a little overdue. That's verbatim. Okay. So he's saying to OJ, Nicole, Faye tries to throw out Keith Z's name from Mezzaluna, who he slept with Nicole. These mob guys look, they're kind of scumbags. Like, I'm just going to say it in a way. Ippolito, you could say is desperate for money. He's on the run, right? Remember, he's a fugitive right now. In June of 94, he is a, fugitive from Pensacola. I can prove that and that's in the public domain.

Okay. So he sends Ehrlich over there, go get my money. Go get me some money from OJ. I'm not saying they're going to burn OJ's house down to the ground, but these mob guys, that's what they do? So if they go up to them and maybe look at it this way too, what if they're done with OJ? What if they're tired of Nicole and Faye and Keith and the Mezzaluna guys? And so they're,

they just want money. And I know what you're saying. Trust me. I can't speak for like Joey Appalito of why you're right. If he's doing everything good, why would you want to go piss him off? Right? I get it. But, you know, I know another guy too that a gun stuck in his mouth in Miami that Joey set up too. Why did Joey pinch that guy?

He was making them money too. Like they rob each other, man. They, you know. Okay. Well, look, we have to, this is what we have to go on. Sure. So we kind of have to accept this in a way, right? clearly there's enough physical evidence of an accomplice that's irrefutable.

The motive to me is something that we may never know. I know it's hard. Yeah. And I agree with you. Because even when I tell the story sometimes and even when I told some reporters years ago, even listening to myself, I had private eyes that I worked with too. And they'd be like, man, you can't keep telling all the drug stuff, man. It doesn't make any sense.

And I'm like, oh, okay. Like, so I get it. Like when I start talking cocaine and OJ's murders, it's like oil and water, man. It's like, you feel me? Okay. Yeah. So, so Ehrlich shows up, uh, pisses OJ off a little bit. 50 grand.

Yeah. 50 grand is what they said. We want 50 grand. Now why doesn't OJ go get them? Why does he, why does he think about going? Because he snaps. He loses control. He should have just said, hey, give me a couple days.

What's up? He over. reacts. That's why Charlie says, OJ did it. So, but why go to Nicole's house for $50,000? Because Charlie's telling him, they owe us money too. It's a way to roll the crap downhill. It's OJ victimizing Nicole and Faye. If you look at Bruce Frommong does an interview, OJ's best friend who got robbed in Vegas. He does an interview and he goes, well, I heard Faye and Nicole ran up a Coke debt like over $30,000. Why is he saying that? How does he know that? Because OJ told them this in 94. This was swirling.

Like this is a certain, man, the way I look at is this. It's a decadent circle. It's almost like, look, you know a lot of famous people. I know a lot of the people you know and hang out with and all these. Bro, these people have money, power, drugs, women. They all know each other, right? They all protect. Your guys are going to protect you.

You're going to protect them. A lot of money's at stake. Okay. And so they're running in this decadent circle. Right. They're all involved. I had a guy, brilliant guy one goes, it's all going to connect. And I go, what do you mean?

He goes, they're all going to connect. each other watch. Okay. So they head down to Nicole's house, which is only what, like five minutes down the road from where OJ's living? Yeah, five minutes. And it's wild when you actually go to, what's the address, 827? 875 Bundy. 875 Bundy. That's like a busy street. Oh yeah. That's Wilshire and Bundy. Yeah, it's Wilshire and Bundy. I used to go to the cafe right on the corner right there. So it's like, it's not tucked away in some like gated community like Bel Air where, right, where Roddingham was, where OJ was living. Rocky Amiens. Rocky. on, I'm sorry.

So they show up and then what happens next? They're knocking the door, Goldman, they see Goldman in there. You're telling me how you want me to tell you this. I want, I don't want the official story. I want, I want what Charlie and OJ. Yeah, yeah, I want, you know, tell us through all of the evidence that you have from Charlie's confession, from the un-leaked files from the LAPD. and from OJ's book, if I did it.

Sure. Please. Sure. So the first way I have to preface it is, I'm not God, I wasn't there. I'll give you my theory, my postulation, I opine, that O.J. and Charlie look out front first in the Bronco to see if she's home. They pull around the back and they park in the alley. In the alley, OJ pulls out a knife that Ehrlich does not really know he has. What kind of knife is that?

It's a Victoronic Swiss Army hunting knife. Single-edge blade. So that's a big... Not that big... Five inches long, maybe. Okay. Swiss Army, so folds. Folds, opens and folds.

Okay. Hunting knife. There's one I've seen that matches the wounds. Does he put on his hat? So now watch. I'm going to tell you the story from Charlie's... Everyone, I'm going to mix them all together. Okay.

So all the details are not going to be perfectly... It's okay. You know what I'm saying. There's different scenarios. Okay. So O.J., they pull around back. it's quiet. It's dead quiet. They turn the engine off.

They're sitting in the alley. Charlie's like, what are we doing? Like, come on, man, you're going to go talk to her. He pulls out the knife, goes, look at this blade. OJ tells you this in his book. Look at this blade. He's like, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Give me the knife. So Ehrlich takes the knife. It's what OJ tells you. So OJ goes, in the book. So they're going to play a game. Let's just say he takes the knife. Erlick has his own knife too and probably a gun. done. He's a cocaine smuggler, enforcer. He has weapons. People always ask me this question.

He has weapons on him. Okay. At that point, he's like, go in there and talk to her and I'll hold the knife. You look like a psycho. You got the cap on. He's putting the cap on. He's putting the gloves on. He's like, what are you doing, dude? He's actually dressed in black. He actually was wearing black at the recital. If you look at the photos, you'll see him. There's a video of him. So he looks like, a burglar. Yeah. Okay. Now, does Ehrlich stay in the Bronco and just OJ walks in?

Probably not. But the way they try to tell you that is that's how OJ goes in first. And Ehrlich follows this guy in saying that he sees Ron Goldman come through the back gate. Goldman comes from the front. OJ's trying to, he never lets anybody win. I drove this way. He didn't drive that way. He came.

It's super hard. There's so many details. But let's just say it this way. Erlich and OJ come through the back gate together. He has a key. He stole it from Nicole. I have it in the freaking discovery file where she talks about someone stole my key. OJ took her key.

So they go through the back gate. He's stalking her. Erlick's with him. Probably along for the ride. The adrenaline's going. This is O.J. Simpson. This is going to be fun, right? This is going to be interesting.

What are we going to do? He doesn't think he's going to murder anybody. There's kids are home. His kids are upstairs. His step kids. His, no, him and Nicole. Oh, no, I'm sorry. His actual kids.

Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. Yeah. Babies are in the house. It's 10.30. What if they're awake? How do you know they're asleep? Because they always go to about 10.30.

You're running around. Anyway, they come, they're creeping down the dark alley. It's dark. This alley is a long walkway. They go up and down stairs like this. It's covered. This is where people didn't realize. Yes, it's a busy street.

But the way they're crushed in there, they're in a killing cage, man. Right. There's like two gates like this. They're right in the middle, man. And I didn't realize he went in through the back. Back. Okay. Yes.

You can't park that car on the front. And you don't want to be seen. So they go to the back. So when they come, there's Goldman. There's Nicole. They're talking by the gate. Outdoors. They're outside.

They're not in the house. They never go in the house. They're out by the front gate. She's holding a menu. It's why they find a menu. She comes out. He's holding the envelope. They're talking.

They never go in the house. Oh, my God. So he literally, they showed up. within minutes of Goldman getting there. I mean, this is like God stuff, man. Wow. This is like within minutes. They're already there.

What I think happened is Goldman shows up about 1035. I think when Charlie and O.J. leave at 1020 because the limo shows up at 10.25, they just missed the limo. Just miss it by minutes. What limo? The Allen Park's coming to pick up OJ to go to the airport. I got you. This is very important to the case.

He misses him by a couple minutes. Oh, no one was home. I'm buzzing the gates. So I went. And so does he wait? Does Alan Park wait for him? He's waits and that's where we can get to that too. Okay.

So they're creeping down the alley that runs along the side of the house. There's a good looking white kid with OJ's wife, barefoot in the skimpy dress, holding a menu. He's holding an envelope and they jump on them, meaning verbally, not physically yet. Okay. They come in. What's going out? What's up? Look at this guy.

What are you doing here, OJ? She snaps. Like, what do you do? Like, you think about it. He just creeps up. He's dressed like an assassin. She's mad. She hates his guts right now.

They were at each other like cats and dogs for the last two weeks. Okay. F you, F you, goes back and forth. What's this guy do? I heard all you guys are dealing on the side. That's what he tells him. He says it in the book.

Yeah. I heard all you guys are dealing on the side. Meaning like Nicole's circle. Yeah. No, to Goldman, he says it. You guys are dealers. That's why he's holding the envelope.

I was just trying to say Goldman's dealing cocaine. This is where they, this is the, the subliminal messaging right here. So he goes, oh, I heard half you guys do on the side. What are you doing it? Well, I just came by to bring the glasses. And OJ. goes, I didn't know if I believed him or not, but it didn't matter because I was worried about everything that was going on. And he's trying to tell you, I am going to snap in one second.

If she does not say something, I want to hear. Ehrlich's just hanging behind him, man. Erlick's not saying a word. And so he's saying the. she was firing on him snapping on him fuck you, fuck you. Get out of here. Why are you here? Like what do you do? This is, don't leave them alone. And there's a fight

starts quickly, quickly. Verbal. Bang, bang, bang. Now OJ says Nicole came at me all flailing arms and things. She swings on OJ. Nicole does. Okay. She's dead. They're dead. Now it's over. Okay. So how does it elevate? Right when the fight starts and that's it. He wax her.

Boom. She goes down. Goldman gets in the corrupt. body stance. That's why they say, this guy got in this karate thing. That's why OJ tells you that. Oh, you think you could kick my ass? And he starts bobbing and weaving. Hang on. Hang on. So he knocks Nicole out, right? They found a bruise on her head. Top of the head. So is that from her hitting the ground? I don't know if that they say there's a bruise to the brain that they didn't even find at first, that they didn't even know what that was. OJ says, she came at me all arms flailing and legs and she fell and hurt herself. He tries to say like she hit the stoop by herself. Classic

re-victimization. Did he take out the knife and start stabbing her right after she fell? No, he waxed her. Okay, so he basically knocks her out. He punches her out. He's down. And then now Goldman's there tries to square up. And OJ pulls out the knife. But OJ says, well, Charlie showed up, followed this guy in and he brought the knife. As things got heated, I just remember Nicole fell and hurt herself. And I grabbed the knife from Charlie. I do remember that portion taking the knife from Charlie and the rest I just don't remember. Now watch. Now, just, that's important. So he's saying he takes a knife from Charlie because he wants you to think there's one knife to protect Charlie. Get it? I took the night, pushed Charlie out of the way. And in the book, it says, too, OG, let's get out of here, get out of here. And Charlie got in

front of me and I pushed Charlie out of the way. See, there's an interview and there's a book. There's two ways he tells the story. Erlich is in the crime scene right there, twice, verbally and in the book. I pushed him out of the way. Grab that. knife, oh, you think you could kick my ass? Oh, I don't remember. Well, now let's pretend he does remember. So he rushed. Two guys. So what really happened? Because there's two knife wounds, right? There's two different knife wounds. Okay, so there were obviously two knives. OJ had the Swiss Army knife. What did Charlie have? Or look, has a dagger, a double edge blade. Wow. That's why there's why Golden tells you there's two morphologically different types of stab wounds on the victims.

And he's kicked off the case after one day. Because Marsha Clark was mad. that he said there's two knives. Wow, that's huge. Of course. Repeat what you just said. Dr. Irwin Golden said there were two morphologically different types of stab wounds on the victims. He was kicked off the case after one day.

And that's an easy thing to prove. Like, look, hey, there's two different knife wounds. There's obviously somebody else involved. And there's bloody shoe prints there and there's a hat in the Bronco and there's fingerprints and there's blood. Wow. And Marsha Clark. And when the other corner gets on Lachman and Shapiro has to ask him in all medical certainty, do you risk your reputation that that one knife caused all these wounds on both these victims?

No, I cannot say that. Bagged. They could never say it. They knew they couldn't say it because the golden did the thing and so there's two knives. So if they go, no, there's one. Now they're like their corners are like, well, which one is it? It's so crazy. And this is why I have a hard time believing it wasn't premeditated because they both have knives on them.

Well, Charlie's not premeditated because Charlie's, he doesn't know Charlie's showing up. Yeah, well, or he does. You know, but anyways. So they kill Goldman right there. They both assault Goldman and start stabbing him. How many times is Goldman stabbing him? At least 27. Wow.

In the body? And I'll tell you, face, head, neck, front, back, skull, yes. Oh, my. And I have the photos. It's madness. The stuff on his face will make you cry. Yeah, it's horrible. He's like a 24, 25-year-old kid.

She was 35, he was 25. So here's my point. The way he's laying in the courtyard, you can't see the wounds. So he's kind of like, you know, his eye and he's bloody. When you remove, I have pictures of him on the slab. Same with Nicole. When you remove the clothing and the stuff,

you're like, wow. Back of the neck. Each side, head. These people are getting stabbed in the head. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. His neck has a whole like three inches.

And it's on this side of his neck. And it must have happened so fast. He has three fatal wounds. There's like, it's like chest flank, his abdominal aorta is struck. That's fatal. The chest wound is fatal. This is fatal. So they slit his throat?

Yeah. Okay. So he goes down. I believe he was struck. The way it's like a circle like this, the wound is a circle. I believe he was struck and he exploded his neck. Okay. So he and he doesn't try to crawl away.

He just basically falls. He fought for his life. He has all. the bruising on his knuckles. He's punching. And why doesn't OJ have any wounds to his face at all? Because Ehrlich's getting hit. Not OJ. Okay. Oh my God. That's huge. His hands have all bruising and all abrasions all over both his knuckles. Oh, so he got in some blows to a face. That's why Charlie's bleeding. Wow. Okay. OJ. All OJ has is a cut on his left middle finger. Right. There's nothing on his face, not on his body. So then they turned to Nicole. Is Nicole? J does. Not Charlie. Charlie's trying to get out of there. How do you know that? Well, I'm not going to... I can't tell you how I know that. Why not? Just not right now.

So, just let me say this. So Charlie's trying to leave. Hold on. Can I ask you? Can you at least say... Trying to give Charlie an out. Okay. So this is something from... Can you... Okay, you can't say how you know it. It's from Ehrlich. Okay. It's from Ehrlich. That's, all right. That's fair enough.

Okay. So Charlie's trying to get out of there. This is all... They're crazy. Like, this is so bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. But now you have a witness. Well, I know. But what I'm saying is, as Charlie's trying to get out of there, OJ is now going to go over to Nicole and finish her off. Okay. And then he...

There's four wounds to this. I believe it's this side of her neck. And then she has one massive wound here. There's a couple on her skull. She probably was struck. She might have been fighting. She might have got up. She has the scratch.

There's something under her nails. Right. Because they find the other, the tissue in the blood. Did she whack Ehrlich? Does she scratch him? him and then they just bang her back. I don't, man, this is a brutal fight. If she has Ehrlich's DNA under her fingernails, it doesn't sound like Ehrlich was trying

to run away. Well, I'm saying if he's murdering Ron Goldman with OJ right there and she comes up from behind and she grabs on to him, right? But I thought she was knocked out. I don't know exactly if she gets up or not. You know what I mean? She's not like knocked out the whole time. What's going on?

Right. Okay. We have to, when I do invest, I've done over 25 murder investigations, when you, you're not going to know every little detail. So you have to just kind of like say something. It's like mind reading. I say what number you're thinking, but I don't know if that's the number.

I'm trying to guess as close as I can. And you'll cough up really what you're thinking. So as he's trying to go away, let's get out of here. Let's get out of here. Nope. Nicole, he is so angry,

dude, and he almost cuts her head off. Oh, my God. That's why the blood's all over her back. When he does that, she's on the stairs. Okay. She's down.

Yeah. When you look at the blood, it's on the stairs. It goes like this. like a wall. She's on the stairs. He's got her propped up on the stairs when he hits her. So when he hits her, that blood goes. Now when he stands over, there's all these big huge blood drops on her back that the LAPD never tested. Okay? I know that for a fact. They didn't test all the blood. They don't test every single piece of blood. They just don't. Okay. So does she, can they prove that she was

conscious and fighting when she was getting stabbed? Yeah, the wounds in her neck are not fatal. Only this one's fatal. Okay. So she was up. She was, she was awake. He's hitting her. When she's on the ground, he's probably hitting her from the back. Like she's like, if she's down, it's either, look, I either hit you straight on like this, or if you're down on the ground, I start hitting you here, then he pulls her hair back in. Yeah, and slits her throat. Yes. And almost decapitates her. Okay. Knicks her spine. That's why Cyril whacked and the other guy, Fred's name, talk about that. Oh, yeah. I have photos of that too. Um, um, And consequently, both he and Erlich are drenched in blood.

Absolutely. Do you buy that? If you stab two people to death like that. OJ's, they're both covered in blood. Okay. OJ's arm is covered in blood. So you got to think of it's going to be his gloves. Now remember, his gloves off because that's how he gets cut.

There's no hole in the glove. How did his glove come off? They think Goldman ripped it off in the fight. And they either Ehrlich hits him with the knife or OJ, if he's grabbing Goldman like this and he's coming like he either hits his own hand or Ehrlich hits him like as they're both. Because Ron has like marks on his shoe like he's kicking. He's being stabbed while he's down. So he's kicking like this and he gets stabbed in the leg too. He has got like, dude, it's everywhere.

It's all over. Right. But it was a big struggle. So it was kind of like a melee, even though, you know, they were massacred ultimately. But it was, there was a big. Goldman's fighting for his life and the way that Goldman's like to tell the story is he stuck up for Nicole.

He tried, yes, he did. Yes, he was a hero. He shouldn't have been there. It was a fateful night. It's sad. If Giudita never dropped her glasses, I have to tell these people all this time. Goldman was a drug dealer and he was there

and this was all set up. And Hippolito knew him and blew up the car, the kid's car at Mezzaluna. Like, dude, if her glasses didn't drop in the sidewalk, he's not there. Yeah. He's not there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so they run off.

They strip down their clothes before they go out the back gate. That's why the shoe stop. Right. Okay, the shoe prints stop. There's no bloody shoe prints in the alley. Correct. Okay. Fascinating.

Both of them strip their shoes. So they run, they basically strip almost naked. Uh, OJ is in boxer shorts and socks. And he jumps in. I don't know what Ehrlich is. He doesn't talk too much about the house. And he gave Ehrlich all of the bloody clothes. He's holding it in the passenger seat.

Okay. And so OJ's driving basically in his boxers and socks. That's why there's no blood on the gas pedal and brake. Okay. Is that mainstream? Yeah. Everybody acknowledges that. They try to,

yeah. And what I love is they tried to use that for the Jason Simpson by trying to say, theory. There's no blood on the gas pedal and break. I go, yeah, because OJ's not wearing shoes. Right. Right.

Okay. And if Jason Simpson did it, then Jason took his shoes off. Yeah. And they only have a five-minute drive back to OJ's house. Yeah. And they go lights off like idiots, like lights off ripping down.

freaking the streets. Wow. So they take they take Bundy back or do they take the alley? I might be wrong on this and people love when I'm wrong. I thought they do a U-turn, but I've had to change this because I looked at the map correctly. I think they weave. They take the wrong turn. So when Robert He's French, I saw the vehicle. It went this way and they're like, no, she lives this way. So he's like, no, he stuck to his story. They went that way. He's heading towards Wilshire. He just tucks through these back streets and he can weave. Eve back to Bundy. Then when he rips through, he blows that light and Jill Shively almost crashes into him.

That's that very famous woman who says, I thought it was Marcus Allen. But then I realized it was O.J. Simpson. He crashes through, lights off and almost destroys her. She could tell that, that witness. She could tell that was OJ. He's looking behind, because I talked to Jill a couple times. I asked, did you see a guy in the passenger seat? The reason she can't is because she's behind.

He like passes her. The guy blocks them. It's a kid from UCLA. They never could find this guy. Never came forward. They don't know who it was. Some Nissan. And he's yelling.

He's not yelling at Jill Shively. He's yelling at the kid in front of him. And she's looking like, oh, my God, this guy, who is? I thought it was Marcus. She memorizes the license plate and reports it as a DUI. She's off by one number. Wow. Right.

So she calls, well, I think it's OJ. But she calls it in before they know there's a murder. And they've tried to say she made it. up and he didn't even know there was a murder. Okay, so there's plenty of witnesses of him fleeing the scene. Just her. Okay, I thought the French guy. Yeah, seeing the

Bronco, but he doesn't know who's in there. It makes sense. You imagine if just 10 years, this happened just 10 years later he'd be on every camera. Oh yeah. You know, every ring cam. Dude, he was just the, he was the, he had the gift of just historical timing. There's no cell phones, really. There's no

cameras. There's no smartphones. Yeah. No, it's crazy. I mean, the guy walked into a convenience store, bought a lottery ticket on his last buck and hit the mega jackpot. I say he was a sprinkle with fairy dust because so was Charlie. Think about it. If I didn't come near,

did you know OJ had a murder accomplice? Because the media won't tell you because they won't let you know. So you're sitting back. That's why I like to talk to people that don't know too much about it because you're the best audience. All the other people are, no, no, no.

All the OJ lovers and trolls are like, oh, OJ didn't do it at all. He did it. I'm sorry. Who's this Chris Todd guy? Like, um, so let's finish this out.

So they get back to, um, O.J's house. The limo driver's still there. He's parked there at Ashford's gate. Because they've, he's got to get OJ to the airport. Uh,

uh, now Cato Kailin wakes up. He's at home. Cato Kailin is, why is he living with OJ? He lives with OJ because OJ led him because OJ wanted to get him away from Nicole. He was living with Nicole.

And who is this guy? He was, Like, we've all heard of Cato Cato, but who was he actually? He'd befriended Nicole first. He says he didn't sleep with her, but I think he did. And I might be able to prove it. Nicole liked him, thought he was very funny. Nicole is a Cokehead whore.

I'm sorry, dude. There's a God, bless the dead, but this bitch was toxic, dude. Ready black athletes out there? Learn your lesson. Stay away, dude. This bitch was fucking toxic. Well, she made Cato famous in a million. there so we could look at it that way too. Anyway, Cato met her in Aspen. He met Faye Resnick

and her together. He was with Grant Kramer. It's a confusing story. They meet at a party or at the Ritz pre-party. Then they go to a party. Anyway, she liked him, thought he was funny. He watched the kids. He moved. He lived in L.A. She, they met in Aspen, but they both live in L.A. They became friends. They named the dog Cato. The kids loved them. O.J. thought he was harmless. Right. He was very charismatic. Because he was kind of a nice guy. He was a funny guy. Yeah, he really was a harmless guy. He was good looking. He was like a hapless guy. He was like, what? What have I, what have I fallen into? He was funny. He had the long hair. He's good looking. Right. He wanted to be a comedian and an actor. He still was a comedian. I think to this day.

So he was essentially a family friend. He met Nicole. Yeah. He was Nicole's friend who stayed with Nicole for the years after the divorce. Right. Okay. And then O.J. him. I mean, thank God he, you know, OJ liked him. Oh, Jay lived in his house. Right, right. Yeah, I was going to say, trust him. If you bang Nicole, you've got to be careful. He wanted him to get away. And Nicole hated Cato after this because

Nicole thought he betrayed her. She was like, why are you, why are you staying at OJ's? Like, they had a love, hate relationship, OJ and Nicole. So it was always like crazy, man, they had crazy. Okay, so he's living in the pool house. He's even like the back house. Yeah, he's in like the guest house. Okay.

So how does he come into play? Go ahead. Take us through what happens. The more important part is that OJ tells you in the book and in the interview, I know the limo's there. We can't pull up to the house. So he drives to Bristol Street, which is the street over. So Alan Park won't see them.

Alan's the limo driver. So they park on Bristol and OJ jumps out of the car and tells Earlick, you better get rid of all this shit forever. Say it to me. Oh, Jesus Christ, OJ, what are we doing? What are we doing? Jesus. Say it to me.

This stuff needs to disappear forever. He jumps out, jumps the neighbor's gate, four-foot gate to the driveway, runs behind the house. Bangs on the wall for Cato to come out. That is a signal to Cato Caelin. And yes, I'll say it. And I challenge you to come talk to me, Cato. And he bangs on the wall. Come help me.

And Cato comes out with the flashlight. Oh, I went out with the, and he goes on the trial and goes, oh, I went out with the flashlight. And I had this. And I heard an earthquake. You didn't hear an earthquake, dude. You heard. It was a signal. and he goes back and he tells him, oh, I didn't see anything.

And then I just came back and, oh, there's the limo. And the limo driver says, well, he saw me first and he wouldn't let me in. So I'm wondering, like, what's going on? Hey, buzz me in. And so when he looks back, he sees a man, a white man with blonde hair, start to walk back towards him and he sees a black man come right behind him and walk into the house. This is what the limo driver. Simultaneously.

This is what the limo driver testified. He testified 20 times. He saw Cato with OJ in his boxers still. He thinks it's all black clothing. Right. He doesn't know he's stripped. Right. That's why he goes,

I saw a six foot black man in all black clothing. Now, what is Cato tell? So Cater lied. What is his story? What did he tell the prosecutors? He says he never saw OJ behind the house. He just says he looked with the flashlight.

And Marsha Clark asked him, why didn't you walk all the way back? Because that's not where the bang came from. Well, I was scared. No, it's not that you're scared. OJ standing right in front of you. Like, Go get the limo.

Go tell, go, go up to the gate and wait till I go in the house. I see. And tell him, wait till I get changed. Wait till I'm ready to go. Wait till I buzz him. I overslept. Why would he need Cato's help? Because he has no one to help him.

Because if OJ comes around, the limo drives is going to see him. Okay. He can't get in the house. The doors are all locked in the back. So Cato was just used to fend off from limo driver. Just distract him. Like, yeah. And he told, but he claims that he never saw OJ outside of the house.

Okay, gotcha. So then he stands at the gate and doesn't let him in still. And so then Alan Park's like, are you going to let me in? And then the buzzer, hello? Oh, hey, it's me. OJ. I overslept. That's that famous line.

I see. Okay, okay, okay. So you have two conflicting stories here between Alan Park, the limo driver, and Cato. Was Cato ever charged with perjury or was there any? They threatened him with perjury in the grand jury. They said, if you don't talk, you're going to jail. At first, he said, I plead the fifth. and they go, you're going to jail.

He had to walk in the hallway, start talking to his lawyer, whoever's with him, and then he came back and, okay, I'll talk. He was a hostile witness. But he didn't talk, but he still, he still stuck to his story. He said he was paid by the defense to not talk. I have a source that said he was paid off by the defense.

Okay. All right. But really, you know, nothing else came of it, right? Like, that was his involvement in history. This was it. He became famous. They didn't publish his book. He had offered.

to do the book. He becomes the guest house, the most famous couch surfer in America. He rides that fame, still rides it to this day, still blabbing his mouth, still yapping, yapping, yapping. Yeah, but does he acknowledge that OJ did it? Does he have an opinion? Now he tries to softly say, yeah, I think OJ did it. He betrayed Nicole. He helped OJ get off. Do you think he would have gotten off anyways, though? Maybe. I'm not blaming Cato. Because this isn't a huge part. Mark Furman got OJ off. Right, right. Of course. course. A lot. So many things got OJ off. The LA riots. I'm not sure how big of a piece of this puzzle, you know, him coming back to the house was, you know, right. I mean, perhaps if the limo driver had seen him

and they could, you know, that was a damning piece of evidence. I think he probably would have gotten off anyways. Maybe. Yeah, possibly. And the weird thing with Allen Park, because I've tried to contact him and he hung the phone up on me. So I do want to say to Allen Park too is, now, why doesn't Alan Park say it's O.J. Simpson walking in the house. Why is he keeps saying it's a six foot black man? Who else was in the house? No one. So who is that? See, he tried to give him an out too.

Right. Interesting. Six foot, 200 pound black guy in all black clothing. It's his skin. He's not dressed. Yeah. Okay. And then, of course, I think this pretty much wraps it up. He gets dressed, gets his golf clubs, goes down. Allen Park's there. Cato's there. What's going on? Do you hear an earthquake?

He's saying that to Alan Parks. Like, no, I didn't feel an earthquake. Cato has to keep this story going. Right, right. Like he's telling, he was on the phone when he heard the earthquake with a woman named Rachel's Ferrara. She was actually had to testify. So he's got to say, did you hear an earthquake?

Like he, he accidentally, if he didn't say that to her, he might have never had to say, I heard a noise behind the house. Right. I see. Okay. So. O.J was lucky, man. Like he, again, like you're saying, it's the lottery ticket.

Okay. So then he takes OJ to the airport and the rest unfolds. Wow. Wow. Incredible. So what happens to Charlie? What does he do with the clothes and what becomes of him from June 12th, 1994 to the 2000s, what he finally gives that confession? He's gone. He flies back to Miami. What does he do with the clothes? Burns him. Gets rid all the evidence gone. Where do you burn clothes? I don't know. But that's a big deal, right? kind of but I mean it's not I mean if you want to say well did he throw it in a dumpster in a trash bag maybe I was told he burned the clothes the okay and then he flies back to where Miami

and when does he next pop up on the radar he doesn't talk to OJ for five years that's why the script and the confession talks about that we don't talk for five years then OJ moves to Miami in 1999 right remember OJ moved to Miami yeah because of the laws and whatever he links back up with Ehrlich and Ippolito okay so do they are they actually placed together? Is that fact? Absolutely. Now, what was he doing? They start doing shady stuff. They start, like, OJ gets his door kicked in for ecstasy by the FBI. They tap his phone. I guarantee Charlie's involved in that. Joey is also dealing cocaine out of a use of a car dealership. I have a witness who literally told me, I can't even say it. I have proof that Joey was doing that. Joey and OJ were still together. and they were hanging out together and I have proof of that. Now, in this day and age, if there's OJ's blood and somebody else's blood, right,

OJ was O negative. I think so, yeah. Super rare blood type. Yeah. Super rare blood type. Sounds right. But the other, it was a, uh, type B. Type B.

They were not able to link any kind of DNA evidence to Charlie. Now, the way to play devil's advocate. kit, you would say this. If you have two root hairs in item 27, right, you'd run those hairs for DNA. Okay. Is there DNA in 1994? Kind of. Not real. It's brand new. There's no touch DNA. There is DNA. They do. Barry Sheck and Neuf. They all know about the blazier and they kind of have it. There is some sort of DNA. So you do have blood. You could blood type, right? So if you knew who Ehrlich was, you could say what's your blood type, you're a B. It still doesn't prove he did it. Right. There was no way. How do you know who you're looking for?

Right. Now, in the database, when Ehrlich got pinched in the 70s, the 80s for guns, weapons, Coke with Nancy Grayson, 85, are his fingerprints in the database? Probably. So did they run the fingerprints through the system and did it kick out that it was him? And they said, no, no, no. Who? What do you mean? LAPD. Or, look, I don't know. I don't have the access to the evidence like that. So what I'm saying is either LAPD ran the fingerprints. and it kicks back that it's Erlik or it doesn't kick back to anybody. Okay, so maybe like...

What if he's not in the database because he gets busted in Georgia? He's in Atlanta when he gets busted. California, is there a database in 94? Probably, but I don't know. There may not have been, though. If he's got... When was he busted again?

85 and then he goes to jail in 87. He's busted in early 80s, late 70s. Was he ever busted after these murders? Yes, in the Vegas robbery when he's with OJ again, the dynamic duo. Oh my God. So that he was part of the Vegas robbery.

The dynamic duo. Why does that never come up in the documentary? What's documentary? I mean, the documentary, I think it's the OJ documentary. It is. It's the one I think on ESPN and it starts. They don't say, well, they know Ehrlich's with them. They know there's like five guys with them.

They do talk about the Vegas robbery. But they never connect the players in it. Look, there are two Charlies at the Vegas robbery. Charles Cashmore and Charles Ehrlich. There's two charlies. Now watch. If somebody had just read OJ's book, put a couple things together. Oh, wait, there's two Charlies with OJ and Vegas robbery.

Oh, that guy's a mafia. Oh, that's kind of weird. OJ said there was a Charlie with a man. Oh, God, is that the same Charlie from the book? Right. But they never put it together. No one ever figured out. So this guy, again, lucky.

Yep. Lugier than OJ. This guy is like, I'm telling you, he's called me on the phone crying before. he's called me on the phone. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? What are you doing? And he starts like,

so when did he? So when did he get? So, so not only, not only. He didn't know who I was at first at all. He's like, how do you,

he goes, you sure know a lot about me. But hang on, hang on. So before we get to that, they never found either, either they never had a fingerprint match. Correct. From the times that he went in.

Or they ignore it. Or they just completely. ignored it, which, I mean, is so scandalous. But that's what the LAPD did. They planted the glove behind the house. Furman planted the glove. They planted, there was EDTA in the blood on the socks and the back gate. Why would Furman plant the glove?

Why did he do that? They just, they wanted one murder. I love you. They wanted one murderer there. You, we want me to sleep over tonight? I mean, I just can't go into it all, man. There's EDTA in the blood. EDTA is a preservative.

It's an anticoagulant. So the blood doesn't coerate. coagulate. It's found on the socks. It means it came from a test tube. It's found on the back gate two weeks later. Why are you collecting evidence from the back gate two weeks when everybody and their mother went to visit the crime scene? That's why Barry Sheck goes, what do we have here, Mr. Fong? What about that? Look at the photo. They show them. There's no blood on June 12th. Why is their blood here two weeks later? Bagged. It's inexplicable. So that's what I'm saying. They were planting evidence. Yeah. It's, it's really- Van Natter couldn't say where he put OJ's blood. Johnny Cochran said, cover up. Andrew Mazzolo was taking a nap on the couch. And that's when Van Etter went into a trash bag and put OJ's blood sample in there. And she had her eyes. What?

Like, they're just like, what are you guys doing? I got to say, OJ deserved this not guilty verdict. Yes. They fumbled it so bad. He absolutely deserved this not guilty verdict. They hated the LAPD. The riots just happened. They found out the Furman said he planted evidence on other black people for years.

talked about beating people to a pulp, the blood on the ceiling, done. I mean, just, I mean, he's hopefully burning in hell, but from a legal standpoint, it's like,

what are you supposed to do with all that? One of the most... I want to find this guy guilty, but you guys are making it so hard. Right, and you have to think for Marsha Clark and Darden and Hodgman and Kellberg and the other gal I forgot her name,

you almost feel bad for them because you're kind of, you made a good point. Yeah. You're kind of like across the way from you as the dream team. the New York Yankees. Yeah.

Sheck, Newfeld, Shapiro, Cochran, they're going to destroy you if you don't have your stuff real tight. Yeah. Real tight. Yeah. And it was not. So all that. They had Barry Sheck. Do the closing argument.

I met Barry. I talked to him for a little bit. When after they saw Barry Sheck, they had him do the closing, not Bob Shapiro. It was Johnny Cochran and Barry Sheck. That's how brilliant that guy was. They saw him in the trial and they're like, Shapiro goes, have him do it. These guys were the best of terms.

sharp. Yeah, brilliant. So brilliance mixed with the opposite on the prosecution side. Just bumbling, corrupt, lying, scumbags. And Ido's trying to like, I don't hate Ido. People, some people rag on Edo. So God knows why they weren't able to find a fingerprint match for Charlie. It's, he just got off. Did they run the hair? Yeah. No, no physical. evidence tying him to the scene. But what's wild is that, he kept running with OJ. These guys like, were they friends? After five years. Remember, they're dark for five years.

Yes, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So they became like really like friends because we're talking decades now. That's why the screenplay says, uh, he goes, oh, I don't want to say too much about the night of the murders. And OJ wrote a book about that. And I can't add too much to that. But let's just say that night tied the two of us together for the rest of our lives. Of course. Because now you have this huge secret between you two. And guess who made, and guess when Erlick in Vegas when they go to Tom Scotto's wedding? That was a wedding that weekend.

OJ said, you're going to go do something for me. I need you to get my memorabilia back. He goes, I don't want to, O.G., I don't want to do it. He goes, well, I'd hate to see things break down for you, seeing as there's no statute of limitations on double murder. That's in the confession. Wow. He hated O.J. I got this thing.

I got this thing over your head. They can't recharge me, but they can charge you. And he made Ehrlich go. Wow. So, and Ehrlich did time for that robbery as well? They all flip on OJ. They all get probation. OJ gets nine years.

Oh, interesting. So they flipped on OJ, even though he had this thing hanging over his head. They had to flip him. They're all going to go to jail for kidnapping. So Ehrlich, they all flip on OJ. Why would OJ, why would OJ tell on Ehrlich to get out of that? He can't, that has nothing to do with the Vegas. He can't get anything to do with that.

That can't erase his Vegas. He could tell Ehrlich like, you better stick up for me or I'm going to squeal on you. But at that point, they were so happy to have him. He was going down. Yeah, there's two many, there's five other guys with him. Yeah, yeah. But they want OJ. Oh, yeah.

They want, it doesn't matter what he says. They sent him on the date October 3rd. Yeah. And the judge says, this isn't about the murders. They literally sentenced him on the exact day of his acquittal. Yeah, I know the girl. I do comedy. I started comedy with the girl whose mom sentenced him.

Oh, really? Yeah. Glass? No, Wolfson. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

There's a couple of judges, but I think glass was the, oh, God. So anyways, when did Charlie, how, Charlie got off? He didn't do time for that. Correct. When does he and how does he confess? In 2017, he comes forward through his, I won't say the guy's name, through somebody, goes to the producer. So he comes to like a production company in LA. No, he knew this producer in Vegas.

I know the guy, I was softly partnered with him, but now he hates me and tries to sue me and threatens me every, every freaking time he can. He came to the guy and he goes, I want to tell you a story. And the producer's like, okay, go ahead. And then when he heard it, he's just like, okay, I have to tape you. You're going to be taped. And then we're going to go get $10 million. From who?

Hollywood. Right. And did he sell that story to Hollywood? I brought a $20 million deal from Sony Pictures to them. I was their partner. Wow. And that's how you met Charlie. I was a producer.

Did you get him that money? Did you guys get that money? Well, here's the best part about Hollywood and I love you, Hollywood. They barred me from the lot, wouldn't let me go to the meeting. I said it with the vice president of Sony, one of the vice presidents,

and they went to the meeting without me and played the tape and showed him the screenplay. And that guy still partnered with the guy today and I introduced both of you guys together and you're still friends together because of me, you're welcome. Did they get the deal?

No. The deal fell through because Hollywood, they're like bullies and they wanted to, oh, back end and well, we'll give you one million. They're like 10 million. They ask for crazy numbers. You want to back end ownership, crazy numbers. And also you're, it's possible that that would never have seen the light of day anyways. He's a felon, like you're going to pay a felon that you wait, what are we paying this guy for?

But it's like good fellows. Henry Hill comes forward, you know, Jimmy Burke. Oh, I was, it's the same thing. The Irishman. It's like, look, the guy's trying to tell you a story. He's not going to say murdered anyone. Yeah. On page 50 of the story.

script, you ride in a white bronco. Yeah. It's an awesome story, man. Like, it's crazy. Yeah, it's an awesome story. But if he's not going to out and say he did it, it's... He's trying to say O.J. did it. Yeah.

Yeah. And for political reasons, too. I'm actually not shocked that they didn't get the money. But see, but here's the important part that you need to know. This is why I flipped on you guys. Because you tried to snake me. And that's why I'm talking. I wouldn't have talked.

See, if they just played me cool, like I told Erlich, If you tell me the truth, I'll leave it alone. But he couldn't do it. He couldn't do it. And neither could the producer. They couldn't do it. They asked for this. And now they got it.

Did. And now Ehrlich's suing you? He's suing people based on a source and partly myself. I see. And a reporter named Bob Norman. Okay. And he's not worried that being a public figure or coming out from hiding is going to reopen anything. Well, he was in, he just got interviewed.

on CNN talking about he's OJ's best friend and spent Christmases with Justin and Sydney. That's disgusting. And he was reporting. It's disgusting. Another woman who I told about the story too. And she gave me a bunch of attitude. And then CNN wouldn't let me tell Caitlin Williams either. So if you have all of this evidence, have you brought it to the LAPD?

I brought it. Yeah. Yes. Okay. And how have they received it? Multiple times. They've received it. Oh, yeah.

And how is that gone? They haven't got back. They don't care. No, I've met with them multiple times. Okay. And I'm not even supposed to say that. But they haven't, but my point is they see the evidence and then they, they don't follow up. They haven't investigated one thing. They can't run the evidence. The DA has to approve it. There's a court order. Okay. So it's really the DA that's holding up. And the DA laughed at me on the phone and then hung up on me twice. And why do you think that is? Well, why is the media have a complete blackout of why won't the media let me talk? It's the same reason, man. They don't want the truth to come out.

They want to keep this false narrative. They want to keep making money off of this OJ story. And they're mad at me. They're still butt hurt because I started to whistleblown these Hollywood people years ago for their discrimination and sex abuse. So they're still mad at me. They're still hanging it over my head. Ask around. They all know my name.

What's the strongest piece of evidence you have that implicates Charlie? This confession on tape. So you have that? No comment. I'll tell you this. the producer has the whole tape. I won't say, I won't confirm or deny if I have samples of it.

Wow. Wow. And that would do it. Like he up and walks, he, he, in that confession. He tells you he's there with O.J. Simpson at the murder scene.

And he all but implicates himself. He doesn't say he's stabbing any way. Right. But he pushes it on to OJ. Right. And tells you the mafia and the Coke. Right. Right.

Right. And of course, in OJ's book, he pushes it. He tries to shift all the blame to Charlie. Kind of. He's playing you both ways. Right.

The best evidence. is, and even the LAPD was smart too, I learned a lot from them when I sat with them because they even said, look, okay, let's say Ehrlich's at 10 and a half. Let's say his shoe is, how do we know it's his shoe? Right. Good point. I said, you're right.

How do we know, how do we know it's his hat? Is his name written in the hat? Even if it was, how do we know somebody didn't write Charlie Ehrlich in the hat? I'm like, okay, well, why don't you run the two hairs and the blood evidence and the fingerprint. Yeah. Then let's talk. Yeah.

And the type B. Then let's talk. Yeah. Get a grand jury. to at least get a warrant to arrest him, take his DNA samples, and run those against the DNA you have in storage. The most simple thing they would do is go get the tape first.

Go get the tape that's actually in discovery file. It's in the discovery in the lawsuit in Miami because there was a motion to compel that made the producer after a year. He had to give the thumb driver. He went to jail. He hid it. He wouldn't play the tape for anybody.

So they deposed him twice. He just got pinched and then he tried to take me to court. I just went to court and I won. Wow. I have the tape of it. I filmed outside the courthouse. Do you think there's a possibility that this could be reopened? You know, we saw the Biggie Smalls case get reopened after almost 30 years.

That ain't OJ. No, no. That's true. So you don't, you're not seeing hope for it. I don't care, to be honest. And people think I'm crass for saying that. I've lived this story. I risked my ass for this story.

The media has violated my rights, my First Amendment rights repeatedly. They violated my civil rights to investigate a murder to tell the public. Luckily, people like you are courageous, that's where I've had to run this circuit. Okay. That's how you met me through other podcasters, right? They didn't want to talk to me either. I had to beat them over the head too.

They didn't want to write that article. So what are you working on now? Kirk Cobain. Okay. We're going to switch over to the Patreon. We're going to talk about all of Kurt and we're going to talk Jean Bonnet Ramsey and a lot of these other things. Natalie Wood, had Aaron Hernandez. Absolutely.

Where can people find you? Investigator, LA19 at gmail.com. Investigator, LA19 at gmail.com. And I also, my phone numbers online. If you just Google, Chris Todd, Chris Todd's my stage name. People record me and SWAT house. SWAT call my house. I have stalkers.

Yeah. So Chris Todd, I'm on the internet. Do you have a podcast or do you have anything? Can they buy your books? Do you have a website? Yeah, my wrote Ron's Revenge. You can go to Amazon and find Ron's Revenge. I list my email inside my book.

But anyone, if you go to any of my other podcasters, they all will shuttle me your email to me. My phone number is on. And if anybody has tips for anything, they can find you at those emails. Come forward. Come forward. Investigator, L.A. 19 at Gmail. I also have an email, hopscotch free. 101 at Gmail. The numbers 101,

hopscotch free 101. We'll put all the links in the description. Yeah, man, really, really appreciate it. Wow. What a thing to live through.

What an incredible piece of American history. Now that OJ's died, I do believe maybe the portal has opened up because I do have a spiritual side to me. People that know me about this, I'll just end on this, is I'm not a technical guy. I go by feeling.

I go by my gut. I use God or the devil. Whatever I need to use, I use it to help the voiceless, okay? So I'm helping them. OJ's gone. I do believe OJ is watching what I'm doing. Chris Todd, thank you so much, man. Thank you so much.

Appreciate you, brother. We'll see you over at Patreon. Patreon.com slash the Connect show. Take care. Peace out.