The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Federal Prison Shot Caller On Life Inside Aryan Brotherhood, Surviving Knife Fights & DEADLY Riots

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

In this part 2 chat, we sit down with Mark Branon who was sentenced to 60 years (a life sentence) and survived some of the most dangerous federal penitentiaries in the United States. He shares the full story—from alleged government misconduct in his case, to fighting endless appeals that went nowhere, to navigating brutal prison politics where violence was a daily reality. Inside, he lived through: -Extreme conditions in Maricopa County Jail -Relentless pressure to snitch—and the consequences of refusing -High-level prison yards like Victorville, where stabbings were routine -Years in solitary confinement (the SHU) -Organized riots, race wars, and prison hierarchy -Personal loss, including the tragic death of his son while he was locked up Despite everything, he eventually overturned part of his case and walked free. Now on the outside, he’s focused on helping others—especially those dealing with grief, trauma, and rebuilding after rock bottom. This is a raw, unfiltered look at survival, resilience, and what it really takes to endure decades behind bars. Go Support Mark! IG: https://www.instagram.com/dagomark_619/ Thriving Again: https://thrivingagain.health/ Check Out Part 1 Here: https://youtu.be/FtHlg8Q-mbU Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Opening: Facing a Life Sentence 01:17 Legal Battles & Appeals 06:08 Maricopa County Jail & State Charges 13:02 Return to Federal Prison & Gang Politics 19:01 Entering Victorville: Hardest Time Yet 24:02 Prison Codes: Paperwork & S Offenders 30:55 Riots, Violence & Prison Discipline 39:33 Surviving Isolation & Mental Challenges 46:04 Adaptation & Daily Life in the Hole 51:40 Violence, Power & Prison Hierarchy 01:00:11 Passing Time: Hustles & Survival 01:12:05 Race Wars & Prison Rules 01:17:17 Leadership, De-Escalation & Prison Politics 01:21:00 Personal Loss & Finding Meaning 01:29:31 Parole, Yards & Final Reflections 01:39:17 Moving Forward & Helping Others Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You got a life sentence effectively. And you went in at what age? I went in when I was 38. All right. So you're cooked. It were so many stabbings. It's like every, I'd say three days a week, four days a week. You're going to Chow and all of a sudden, boo, boom, boom.

The tower's going off. The grenades are coming out. And you just turn and there's like two or three guys on a guy or multiple guys getting down with big ass knives. And it's amazing how many times the guy that's going to get it doesn't know it's coming. I've seen a guy get murdered for $20 bill. The race fours are the narliest. Everybody's in it.

This is Daigo Mark, the San Diego Surfer Bro turned drug kingpin who spent 22 years in federal prison as an alleged member of the Aryan Brotherhood. Mark spent his entire sentence in the highest-level USP penitentiaries, where he was deeply entrenched in white gang politics. He gives fascinating insight into the strict code of conduct amongst the white prison cars, and the grotesque levels of violence that occur when these rules are broken. The fact that he's here today with me in the free world and not doing life in a Supermax prison is a miracle. So get ready.

It's part two of his epic story, Mark Brannon, aka Dago Mark, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. It's hard to know where to begin after what we just talked about, but you're down now and you got 60. You got a life sentence effectively. And you went in at what age? I went in when I was 38. All right. So you're cooked. how I've spoken to a lot of people on this show that

have beat life sentences or went in with life sentences and then they got out on appeal and different things like that resentences. How confident were you after all of the trickery and the fuckery and the lawbreaking that was done by the government in your case? How confident were you that you could get it overturned and that you could actually end up getting out of prison? That's a good, that's a great question. And this is what was so frustrating.

I knew when they convicted me, the reason I never took a plea, first of all, they offered me 30 years. That's not a plea. That's still a lot of time. And that was before they brought the shooting charges on me. So here's the deal. I thought 100% that I would overturn my case based on what the private investigator did, based on them taking my attorneys in a closed hearing and sealing it. Everything, spying the camp. I mean, I thought for sure. And it was so much so that I had spent $550,000 on trial lawyers and appellate lawyers combined, which was a lot back in early 2000. And when I was in, a case came down called Gonzalez-Lopez versus U.S., for instance. And that's a case. I believe it was a 2005 or six case.

Supreme Court ruling said under no circumstances can you ever remove a person's counsel from them. Right. Period. They're paid counsel. You can't. And so one of my appeals lawyers, Roger Hansen, goes, oh, we're going to get you out for sure, for sure. And I'm like, oh, God, all right, let's go, man, finally. I'm finally going to get out.

They just, all my appeals, every appeal that I ever filed against the PI, against, you know, what they did using him, you know, taking the attorneys away from me, they all fell on deaf ears. I mean, I would get, I didn't just do my direct appeal, my 2255, my 2241. I didn't just do it once. My searchuary for Supreme Court is for appeal. I did them twice because I got resentenced in like 05 or 6 on the Amalene case, which simply said that the minimum mandatory sentences, I mean, the guide, no, excuse me, it said the guidelines are advisory now, not mandatory. It used to be mandatory guidelines.

So when I went in for that, it didn't make any difference. It's the only one I ever really got back in court on because all it said was their advisory. And the judge was like, man, I gave you 720 months. That's a deal. You should have got life. So every appeal I ever filed, every bit of evidence I showed him just was ignored because of who the violence was against. Right. The prosecutor from the state of Arizona.

Yeah. I mean, it was kind of fixed. Okay. So how were you feeling when you went? And were you feeling that anger and the bitterness that most cats with life do when they go into the system? Yeah. I mean, I was really bitter about what they got away with to convict me. Like it was, it's almost a case of first impression.

And that's what my lawyer said. We're arguing this case on two cases of first impression, meaning there's no case to compare it to. The P.I. is a working informant. And been a working informant against a time. of other clients. There's a five-part series about it. Insane. It's not just like I'm crying wolf here. It's all right there. And the second one is, you held a closed hearing and fired all my paid attorneys, the right to counsel. It's a most fundamental constitutional right. And, you know, Janet Napolitano, the one that originally

indicted me, gave my case to Billy the Bulldog Rosen, became the governor of Arizona, and then she became the head of Homeland Security. She's probably one of the top 10 most powerful people in the United States, give or take. And so it's no coincidence that my rulings coming back from these various appellate courts were very short and concise, not really very descriptive. You know, the opinions weren't laid out like a lot of opinions on appeals are, which is very detailed why we did this, why we did that. It felt like it was all, still being covered up. It was all, you know, still business as usual. So while you're waiting to keep fighting your appeal and keep, you know, pursuing it in higher

and higher court, you got to live in the USPs. Yeah, it was super violent. I mean, it's like it was, I began in Atwater in 03. Now, the games didn't even stop there. I got convicted in 03. I was sent to Atwater. water after being sentenced, it took a while to get placed. November, 2003, Atlanta at water penitentiary, April of 04, not six months later, I'm re-indicted in the state for the shooting once again. Now the state wants a piece of me. And I'm taken back to Maricopa County Jail in Arizona. And for all your viewers, I already know by your expression, there is no bigger scumbag than Sheriff Joe or Pyle, and there was no harder time than I've been in all the

smooths and the shoes in the system. I've broken records for transfers from shoes. And I can tell you this, Maricopa County was by far the worst, most, like, you think it's warm out here during this heat wave? There was half that jail. They'd run on swamp coolers. There were cells so hot, you'd touch the wall and I'd pull your hand off it. Like you're just sweating and you can't breathe. then they got 72 guys in small units, but then the mistreatment in the morning, you get a ladmo sack, a paper bag with like a piece of fruit, a baloney sandwich, and a bag of chips, no lunch, none.

And then you get dinner, which is donated slop from the community. And he used to brag, Arapio did, that he fed the animals in the Humane Society better than he took care of the prisoners. And look, I'm all about that. I like animals way more than people too, but I mean, you know, everybody's watching you do this.

It's, I mean, I agree with you. I love dogs, you know, I love all animals. And, you know, it's just, yeah, I did some hard time. Well, I sat in that jail for two years. Well, they tried to get me to rat back at the guys that testify against me in court, namely the shooters. Yeah. And Bob Owens, the PI.

And when it came down to Bob Owens, I made it clear. I said, look, I'll never snitch on anyone. That dude's a cop. And if they're willing to talk to me about. the way he set me up and everything he did illegally, I'd be happy to talk to you. But they never, ever would agree to talk about that man because he is what's known as Arizona's dirty little secret

for the law enforcement community. And, you know, I mean, he's setting me up in my law team. He's open game. You know what I mean? And I'll never sit in the court testify against anyone. But if I'm fighting an appeal, and I'm talking all about this dude, like all my appeals how can this guy be i mean my lawyers that did my appeals were like there's no way

you're not going to get out we've never seen this and so going back to maricopa county was nothing but another sweat deal to try to get me to testify against people against the shooter who testified against me in open court and instead of doing that i made a scene in that courtroom i stood up and and when when i was there almost two years in the most deplorable conditions and the judge goes hey well we at a status conference how to go. And my lawyer at that time, my fifth lawyer, Roger Hansen, he goes, well, Your Honor, I'd like to execute allocution. I want to address the court. By law, they have to let you. And I had a good judge. He was an ex-defense attorney. And he goes, for sure, we'd like to hear about this. And I said, Your Honor, this is the deal they

want me to do. They want me to snitch out the shooters that snitch me out in federal court. and they want me to talk about other people. And here's what happens, Your Honor. I'm doing 60 years already on this case. He goes, and the judge was like, they don't know any of this. They're just processing people through continuance, continuance. He goes, you are, and he looks over. And the prosecutor's like, Your Honor, he can't talk about these things.

There's ears in the courtroom, and he's flipping out. The prosecutor Bob Shots and Juan Martinez is there, the one that did the Jodiaria's case. Like, I have the biggest violent case prosecutors based off violence in the courtroom against me. And he's making a scene. The judge basically tells Bob Shud, say, shut up and sit down. I'll find you in contempt. Let him keep going. And I just basically told the judge not to be long-winded that I'll get on the stand and put my hand on the Bible.

And I swear to tell the truth. And I'll lie like a rug and get everybody off. Because you know why, Your Honor? And he looked at me kind of could see. He was like, oh, really? And that's not a shot at you, Your Honor, or your court. But their deal provides that I go do basically a life sentence in the feds with a rat jacket. And what will happen, Your Honor, is I'll be in one of them TV rooms with my back to all these guys and that paperwork will land and I'll get slaughtered with homemade knives and it probably won't be a quick death.

And I'm not doing it. And the prosecutor jumps again, Your Honor. And that guy, Daniel Martin, the guy that testified against me, his PI was in the courtroom and I knew it. and he was on the run and he basically went out, told the guy, like, hey, keep going. They're trying for you. Like, I did everything I could, even saving the rats in my case at the end. So they ended up dropping the case? No.

They got so mad that the judge had to stop the court hearings. There was like 13, 14 guys would be in the jury box. You know, in county, they take you from all these years. Probably 20. A lot of them knew me. And they're like, wow, you know, this is gnarly. Like, look at them go, you know. And he goes, you know, I want to take Mr. Brandon off the chain, put him in a holding cell.

I'm going to do all these other cases. I want to see the prosecution in the defense in my chambers as soon as we're done here. And when I went in there, that prosecutor was hot. He was pissed. And I just looked at him and smiled because I have nothing to lose. I have a life sentence. And I went in there and we argued back and forth. And the judge goes, Mr. Brand, he told, he goes, Mr. Shuts, he goes, this guy's going to ruin your case.

like you don't want him here. He's like going because he's an ex-defense attorney. And I go, he goes, Mr. Brandon, what will you take? And I go, my lawyer speaks up, yeah, well, and Bob Chesco goes, yeah, 15 years. And I go, and you're fired, dude, because my lawyer's going along with it. I go, you're fucking fired. He goes, wow, Mr. Brack, what would you take? I go, eight years running concurrently with my federal sentence.

I have a life sentence, Your Honor. What's the difference? And I'm knowing I'm going to win this somehow in some appeal. And he made them give me that eight years. I signed that plea and I got out of there after two years. But you still serve your Fed time. You know, you got, even though you pled to the state case. The Fed time ate up that eight years.

It's running concurrent with my state. I mean, the Fed time, the state's running concurrent with my federal time. So I just ate it alive. Once I had like another eight years in or six, I finished that. Right. But I'm saying you never served time besides Maricopa County. You didn't go to an Arizona state prison. No, because that.

case was adjudicated. I signed a plea at the state charges went back to the feds and continued doing my 60 and you know about six years later, hey, you've terminated your state case. Cool. Right. And what's poetic justice is that once I overturned the shooting in the state and once they gave me that, I mean, I overturned the shooting in the feds and once they gave me that state plea and I ate that eight years up in my federal time, once I overturned my federal shooting against the prosecutor. I didn't do a day for that shooting. Not one. And that's karma. Right. But I'm not, you know, laughing at them, but you know what? Fuck you. You know, that lady was a piece of shit, you know, and the thing she did. And I'm going to tell you years after that, I'm getting

letters. There's a book in prison that went around. It's like a biblical thing. It's called Rescue, not arrested. And that was one of the guys that benefited out of her retiring, being retired. And tell us who she is for the people who didn't see the episode. Billy Rosen. And that prosecutor was so harsh, given so much time to people for minuscule charges, laughing in their family's face when they're crying in the courtroom. She was evil. Guys would write me and go, you know, I want to thank you. I had a 15-year plea. As soon as I got switched prosecutors when she got retired, when Billy Rosen was off my case, I got a three-year plea. That guy that wrote rescued and arrested says the same thing. You can find that book. Talks all about me, all about my case, and how I saved his life. He was looking at 12 years, gave him two. As soon as she got off the case. And I mean, and who knows how many countless others had written me. I mean, by the way, she got off all those cases because my guest, Mark, tried to have her killed. Some gangster shit. So, we want to hear about the feds now.

Tell us about the bidding. Were you immediately thrown into, you know, gang life? Or did it kind of, is that kind of something that just naturally absorbed you? As the years went on. I mean, I don't want to say absorbed because I'm never going to admit that I'm in any gang. I mean, I've told you on the last show, I've been validated as Aryan Brotherhood since 13. There ain't no political ink on me, Brian. You know, that's all I'll say, right?

This is the thing. When I first got there in Atwater, there's no disruptive groups allowed at Atwater. There's no MA. There's no Aryan Brotherhood. At that time, the Black Corolla, the Beach EF wasn't allowed. They were the three-listed, be disruptive groups. So there it would be like whatever white guy could be a skinhead. It could just be some guy that's put in a lot of work.

There was sack there. There was a lot of violent dudes there. You know, they'd elect somebody to run the yard, you know, whatever. And but, you know, I was there and saw a bunch of stuff, saw a bunch of violence, got involved in some violence. But once I got back from my two-year stay at Maricopa County, I remember I only did four or five months. I immediately put in for a transfer down to Victorville because Atwater is so in the middle of nowhere, it's so up north like it was just in a bad area.

My wife came to visit me one time and some fucking gangbangers caught up on her, a car full of dudes. There's some blacks, whatever, probably out of Oakland. And hey, hey, baby, come here, man, come here. Like trying to guerrilla pimp her, trying to grab her, throw her in a car like they do up there a lot and turn them into prostitutes and drug them up and tell them they're going to kill their family unless they walk the street. I mean, it was like that. It was like gnarly.

Like she ran into the hotel, called the front desk, called the cops. They're beating on the door. I mean, I'm like, you're never going to come fucking visit me here ever again. I was fucking incensed. I was like so mad. And look, I mean, for the record, look, there's good black people. There's bad. There's good white.

I'm not a blanket. Like, rad just happened to be who tried to do that tour and that area is prevalent for that type of shit. And so I got moved down to Victorville after another six months there on a hardship transfer. because I was exactly over 500 miles from where my residence was. That's how you get moved. So I moved down to Victorville, and now I'm in a real gnarly. There's like six Aryan Brotherhood, five, six Mexican Mafia. There's 350, 400 Serenios.

There's like 250, 300 white guys. Like, you'll never see a yard stack like this. The blood's the crypts, and I get along with them, dudes real good. I got friends. And, you know, I get along more with the west coast. sets because they're more rigid and they're more strict about the things you do and don't do in prison. Some of the East Coast stuff, like a lot of the DC cases are state cases. They don't have a state prison.

Lorton's closed. And so you will get a lot of people from there with like rape charges and they're fucking animals. You know, I mean, some of them are good people, but a lot of them are running amok. You know, I mean, like if a rapist comes on a yard with us or or any of the West Coast sets, black, white, Mexican, I mean, we slaughter that rapist. We slaughter that child molester. We put that in. And so I would like to say that we run on a good set of morals. The audience might say, oh, well, that's violent. Well, every sex offender should be slaughtered or castrated. There's no helping people like that. And I was a big fan of it. And I'm a big fan of putting in work on them. And I have.

And it's like, the 2006 Chevrolet Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. by J.D. Power is designed for your everyday. And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca. Details at J.D.power.com. I've heard that same thing about people who've been in Victorville specifically. They always talk about how the West Coast sets were much more rigid politically. Oh, yeah. It's, it's really, it was such an eye-opener to be there, you know, and at that time, there was, there was a couple big homies that I really liked. Big Mark, Nyquist, he's dead now. He was there in Brotherhood, been around forever, been through all the brand indictments and stuff.

And, you know, he was murdered when he got out for some things I heard about, can't talk about. But he was a guy that kind of mentored me, you know, and, you know, and kind of showed me the ropes. And, you know, you get there, you put in your work. I mean, I wasn't even out of my khakis and boots two days. Hey, we need a guy in this unit. I got it, you know, because now I'm kind of mad. You know, I know I've got a 60-year sentence. I know I haven't won any of my appeals.

And I'm just like, you know, I'm going to put it down. Can they tell that you got brolic? Like, you're all big guy already when you went in. But could they tell you, like, oh, this guy can handle himself. My case is like a gold card. Anyone that goes after a prosecutor and goes after their rats and had a cartel case. And I got the attempted murder in the case for, you know, destroying this guy in a nightclub.

And they're like, yeah, I mean, here's who I am, you know. I mean, look, I mean, the first time I actually put in that knife work, I ain't go lie, like, it's different, you know, when you go in a cell eight by 10, whatever, and, you know, each guy has a knife, it's heavy combat. You know, you're in a riot. Shit's flying all around you. I mean, I've seen and been involved in some stuff that, like, it stays with you, you know, but you have to do it.

And it's, the movie shot caller was pretty accurate. Rick Waugh did it. It's a good movie. I was going to ask you about that. It's funny because one of the lieutenants in Canaan right before I got released was like, hey, Brandon, you got to watch this movie shot caller. That's you, you know? Like, I was like, oh, really, all right, well, but it ended up being a good movie.

I don't think the killing in the end could have been done like that, any shoe program. But they made it like he had so much pull because, I mean, you lock a guard in a cage and the whole fucking prison's coming. You know, you know how he does it at the end. But the rest of the movie was good. it was accurate. It was well done, you know. Now, you said the second day you had to go into somebody's cell,

did you just smash them out? Was it a removal or did you go with a knife? I moved on a guy. I had a knife on me. I just used hands, and he was asked to show up on the fence line to speak to somebody's avoiding debts. He's staying in a cell. It was kind of gnarly.

You know, it was that. I didn't put the knife work in that day. but I had it with me and, you know, just whipped him off the bunk and just, you know, stomped on him and submitted him out and said, hey, man, you got to go out or we're going to take this to another level. And he came out and they were impressed,

you know, because he wasn't a small guy. And I went in with someone. His cell, he just stayed on the top bunk. It's naughty because you go in a cell and the guy's like, we didn't even let people sleep in the daytime ever. So I went in there really early right after breakfast. And this dude is, he's in the bed

without his shoes on. So you got caught, man, you know. Horrible. Yeah. And I knew where he kept his knife, so we immediately grabbed it. It was right in the rail of his bed. First thing I did, rolled up and then went in. But after that, it's like, you know, you'd have altercations.

Like, it'd be amazing how some guys would, like, call you out. Now, do something like the first person. I played a lot of sports. I played basketball, handball, you know, softball. I'm a good athlete. I'm good at all sports. And it was, you get in a lot of situations when you're playing ball. And that's where a lot of my stuff's happened.

And in the unit, you know, like you'll carry it in. And people are like, yeah, man, like if the dude calls you a punk or a bitch, you know, it's like you're picking up a knife. And the first time it happened, you know, it was pretty gnarly. It was kind of like a guy who was gang affiliated. I wasn't. What was it over? Television.

Yeah, he thought he was just going to come in and change. a TV and you know and and but back then you could go on a cell handle your business and the big homie at that time when you would go in there and and this guy was leaking good you know we went in with knives and I was able to really secure his first shot and get on him so I had limited damage for him shot and um but he had massive damage and and so they run a bunch of guys through the room that's the trick one guy will go in check on him I went in first then Obviously, when I came out, he's already in there bleeding. And the next guy would go in, another guy.

So now you got three guys going in and out of there besides me. And there's plausible doubt, and every one of them held their mug. I don't know. I didn't see it. I don't know what the phone. And the cops just kind of let us do it. It was so violent there. And it was almost, but there was a reason.

The administration was letting it happen. The AW got indicted, the captain, Holland Check, born. And these guys were indicted for letting us do their thing. Like they've hand fed us sex offenders, which is a beautiful thing, all props to them. Can you go into any detail about that? Like how would they let sex offenders ever get close to being inside of Victorville? Because when a guy has a case where he's raping his 10-year-old daughter, Kenneth Freeman's one of them, and it's the highest film volume on the internet, and he's raping his 10-year-old daughter while his wife is watching it and filming it.

And he's an ex-cop. And I called he was a cop the minute he walked in. And big, healthy dude. And then when he went to his tough guy talk of the lieutenant's office captain, all of them, this is what they do. This is how they rock them to sleep and all props to them. I wasn't in the office. I don't know they did it, but I know they did it.

Hey, man, you got a fucking gnarly case. You know, that's not a cool case. But, you know, if you don't want to get transferred, you can walk the line. Just don't talk about your case. Just tell him you got a gun case. Like knowing we're going to run him immediately. Yeah. We run everybody immediately.

You come in our unit. If I got the unit or whoever has it or the yard, you're a white boy. Give me your paperwork. And we're running you good. We have websites that can find everything out down to your Juvie record. Do you just have somebody on the outside? You give him a call and say, hey, this is. Yeah.

There's other tricks that are way smoother than that. Yeah. You know somebody on the inside. Perhaps we just got some tricks. I mean, there's one. I'd love to give up. It was easy the way I did him. And I actually was the one that did him and found out.

So it's easy. How long does it take to run somebody? Shit, as long as the mail goes, you just got to have your codes and everything. Right. It's simple stuff. So a week? Yeah. Yeah.

So you ran this guy, Kenneth Freeman. I can't believe I've never heard of that case. It's so just. Child sex rapist. You can find him all over the place. Kylie Freeman, his daughter. He raped her, ex-cop. And filmed it.

He lived in Thailand. The creep show, capital of the world. world yeah he's a scumback he was were you the first person to find out who he was yeah what did that feel like so rewarding no there's been a bunch i mean i him i'd like to name because you know kiley if you ever see these interviews i'm so sorry for what happened to you you know i need a laugh by the man like like what these people do to children it's especially since i lost my only son like yeah i'm a real advocate you know and that sucks too you You know, I got a felony or a few.

And some of my stuff is violent. But you know what? There's no better person you could leave your children with in your home with a million dollars in cash, a bag of diamonds, and come back in a week. And all your money and your diamonds are going to be there. And your kids are going to be happier than they've ever been with anybody besides their parents. And it's like, man, there's just rules and morals. We've got to follow in this world.

Totally. And I don't believe sex offenders can be fixed. I know they have the chemical castration thing. You know, I think it should be taken off with a saw. And they should, you know, once they get out, it's like, because if you leave them with their play toy, they're never going to stop. They're sick. And so, you know, but the good thing is doing the high level time,

we don't get that many. Like, they'll let them slip through because they know they're going to get butchered. And I could tell you this, that dude ended up living. It was a miracle. And there's a couple others, but I don't want to keep me. So what happened to him? He got stabbed.

He got his brains kicked out. He had about nine knife wounds. I've got his fucking skull smashed. His brains were literally all over the floor. It looked like gray matter. And I survived that? Yeah, he's a vegetable. Even better.

Yeah, he's in FCI. He's on our USP Tucson now, the hideaway yard. Right. Saxoferenter yard. But now it's changed. Now the feds have changed. And it's not changed for the better. It's kind of like in the state, you got the 50, 50 yards.

Now in the feds, like almost every medium, FCI, Phoenix, FBI, FCI, FECI, FECI, FCI, Sheridan, Englewood, Colorado. That's where Jared from Subway went. Like, you've got these guys, these Caucasians, I don't even call them white, because when you take a yard and you walk with these dudes and you don't make a move on them, you're as bad as they are. And I'm talking about they have to sign a paper now on these mixed yards. And the paper says, I will not, I will agree not to assault the sex offenders based on their charges, or I will face five years under USC, blah, blah, blah, the special law. They have to protect sex offenders.

And these dudes are just signing the paper, walking around with them, you know. And it's like, you know, I had a cancer scare when I was in the halfway house. And when I was in the halfway house in L.A., I was with a good friend of mine, this JJ kid. And I thought I had cancer.

I had a 27-pound weight loss. Something went nuts in my body. Never really was determined. You know, we're running every test from HIV to cancer to everything. And when I'm waiting, for the results, I told my good friend, he's a youngster from Delmar. I said, you know what's done? I said, if I come back with this shit with anything, I mean, I don't fuck punks. I don't know how to

get AIDS, so I knew I didn't have that, but they have to run everything. And I said, if it comes back positive, I said, I'm just going to tell you what day to get the hell out of here. And I'm going to slaughter these six sex offenders that are in there with us. And there were some guys in that. I've never had to live anywhere near them, anyone that's ever hit the yard. It was like, everyone got their hand raised to deal with them. Right. Let me get that one. You know, it's like a, it's a real badge of honor to get those dudes, you know.

So, but it wasn't just sex offenders. It was also people that violated. Rats. Right. Dudes that make violations for whatever reason. There's so many reasons. It's not even funny. And you're living in such a rigid society now.

It's like, you know, it's, it's so like it's, it's, it's, it's, it was so many stabbings in Victorville when I was there. It's like every, I'd say three days a week, four days a week, you're going to Chow and all of a sudden, boo, boom, boom, the tower's going off. The grenades are coming out. And you just turn and there's like two or three guys on a guy or multiple guys getting down with big ass knives. And, you know, people are getting hit all the time. Wow. And you can see it, you can, you can feel it.

When you walk down the sidewalk and all the sudden, dudes are lined up against the fence and you immediately know it, you're like, oh, someone's going to get hit. It's in the air. And you see, because everyone, you know, these looky-loos, they want. And also there's guys that are there for backup just in case it doesn't go the way it's supposed to go. You could walk through like a tunnel of tension and then you just kind of mosey down the sidewalk and kind of look back, look back all of a sudden, you just hear it. And it's amazing how many times the guy that's going to get it doesn't know it's coming. It's incredible. Yeah, it was kind of not.

Yeah, and the way we've heard that from a friend of ours who's been on the show, Black guy, but bit it in Victorville and he said the whites there they would come up to you right maybe the guy who had the yard would come up to all you know just stay away from this area

yeah or you might want to go get your shower yeah because on Thursday it's going down and the guy who's getting stabbed is right there doesn't even know it no doesn't even know it and and some guys would do that and say we as a whole rule would never notify anybody

but the big homie of their sex or the one who has the keys very shortly before it goes down. Like, I've had to walk up to guys like the Sorranos. Those are my brothers. You know, I mean, I'm really close with them. And the Mexicans are islanders, natives. Like, I'm close to those three sets really close. You know, and I just get along with them, you know,

and we've backed each other up in many, many wars. And so there's times when I've just walked from our table and leaned at the head of the Sorreina's table and said, hey, man, you guys, hey, just, this something's going to pop here, man. Don't please try to stay a little bit away and be ready to move, you know, because we may be hitting a guy at our table,

and if it starts, I don't want you to think it's coming at you. Because if something goes on in your back, you turn. Right. Like when I got hit right here in the face, they moved on me another set because of something one of my friends did at another yard, started their leader. Right.

They hit me right in Canyon when the tables were so. close and you literally got to walk sideways and that natives are right behind me and when they moved on me it's the only time I've ever been moved on in my career and it wasn't for something I did it was payback just because I'm West Coast whatever they say I am and one of them wrapped his hat one of them hit me in the face and I'm stuck in the table surrounded by guys that I really don't know because I've been disciplined and sent all the way out there away from any of my bros from the West Coast because we ended the career of one of their SIS rats, you know, that we discovered, that I discovered.

Right, right. And that was the case where the guy got decapitated? No, this was just a guy that we had hit over in Lee County. Okay. And so they immediately sent me to Canaan, which is almost in New York, and I'm from California, and there's not, there's really no bros on the yard, and I don't have a big, usually I have a West Coast car, and when I'm moving around, you know, there's a small pack of us. We move like a platoon, but in this particular day, I just got to,

there. This guy, you know, made these hollow threats. Oh, we're going to get this dude or the independent car. Like, come on, man, you don't separate gang members of independent. If a guy's a good guy, he's a good guy. Most of my friends aren't gang members. And so they, they ran up on me with a knife, one of them, actually a street box cutter. And you can see the scar from here to here. It's stuck in my jaw. The one guy wraps his hand around and starts hitting me the box cutter. And the other guy punched me but I immediately got risk control on the weapon because if that guy wouldn't have punched me and moved me here to slit my throat I would be dead because I would have bled out but it bled like a motherfucker but but and you don't even feel it I mean it feels like just

you know but I mean I've been in you know I've had it I've got moved on but you know kudos to me well anyway I secured the weapon and flipped the guy right on the natives table because they're right behind me boy would they fucking pass they're like you did that shit like like that chow hall right there is not the place to do it because they have different races real close. It's the closest child hall tables anywhere. And you have to use common sense in there. You have to like, if you're going to do a hit. Like, and for real, for real, it was staff day.

And there was 15, 20 people from the regular COs to the wardens in there. And you hit me 10 feet from them. Right, right. So it's like why do that? Some would call it a PC move. It's kind of a PC. But I'm not going to sit here and throw shade on them. I don't give them credit for making a move.

so bold, you know, because there was a war after that. But, yeah. So would you guys do something as you talked about hitting one of your own, like in Victorville, hitting one of your own at your table? Are you talking about your day room table? No, you're a child table. You would do that at chow? Some guys would, yeah.

Oh. The chow hall people don't know is a very, it's a crazy place because when something really jumps there, they're going to shut them doors when it gets to be too big. Well, think about it, there's so many weapons in there. All the oven racks have rods. You can make so much. I became a master of being able to take a black metal clip, the ones you bind paper with, melt it into a roll-on deodorant or a toothbrush, and you can just saw out bongs. You can, you know, because it's, you know, anything that's the hardest steel, you know, steel cuts through iron. But, you know, you can get through a lot of stuff and then there's a lot of weapons there it's a dangerous place like unlike the state there's no

catwalks in the chow hall there's no places for them to shoot down on you if they seal the place up it's going hard you know and and and and and it's uh what do you mean what do you mean by that well because they have guns they have gun gun walks in the heavy and the higher level states i mean they're over you with a with like well now with probably an m4 carbine but back then you know with the mini 14s and whatever and have those in the feds Only on the yard, the towers. So they can't stop it if it's at the chow and you want to... They're only going to come in the units with non-lethal anyway.

They're going to come in with grenade launchers and, you know, concussion grenades and beanbags and mace. And I don't know why, but I've always had a really good ability to eat mace. I mean, I started one of the gnarliest riots in Lewisburg. They were mistreating us all. And me and my celly, Jimmy Hodge, they took a good independent dude named Jimmy, name Jamie Lee.

And he had the keys to like his Virginia guys and a lot of the guys that were not affiliated, you know, but I never wanted the division between the gangs and the, we're all white, let's just get along, you know. But anyway, they treated them bad. And the cops, they had taken the razors from us because a lot of the blacks had gone out there and just literally, I mean,

if you've ever seen a guy get sliced by two guys, they have razors melted in toothbrushes, their whole face off, their eyes. it's one of the gnarliest things you'll ever see and they're kind of known for that. Yeah, they come in with them razor blades, man, and they're vicious and they're dangerous. Look, them dudes are dangerous.

I'll give them their credit, like, but the way they do it, so anyway, they were doing hits in the wreck cages, and you're on the smooth program. You're cuffed everywhere you go in level one and two. And then when you graduate, you go to three, four, and you're out of your cusp, but you're still in the hole and you get an hour out here and there.

Anyway, so they had sliced so many people up in the break cages, they took the razors, and then there's a bunch of tension. And we're like, fuck you. trying to make the white cheese magic shave. That stuff burns our skin like acid. We're not made for that. And so we're all growing beards. You can use it on your head, but when you put it on your face, it's fucking gnarly. And so everyone was bucking in writing grievances and stuff. And this one guy just, he called home and he probably shouldn't have. And he said, hey, you know, don't come visit me. You know, something's real tense around here. And so as soon as the cops hear that in the recording

room, they're like, they come to get them. Come out of your cell. We're going to talk to you. Okay. okay, I'll bring my cell, you know, you're coming alone. And he did what he's supposed to do. He refused. No, I'm not coming alone because we don't talk to the cops by herself. There are some races that do. We don't. And they ended up roughing them off, taking them out of there and putting them in a holding cell.

And I just looked out the window and yelled to him, Jamie Lee, where are you at? And he goes, I'm in the iron cell. I'm in the strip cell, the metal cell front, black boxed. And they're putting his food up on the bunk where he can't even reach it. And so I yelled out on the ranch for everyone to board up. Let's show them how we do it. And I went and about 70 white dudes went with me, not only in that block, but in the one next door.

And that place was roasting, man. You couldn't even see there was so much smoke. It just went hard. Okay. And when you say bored up, you mean... Cover your window. You can come in and get you. Right.

And I was the first sell they came to. So, you know, I was like packing my shit. But it was a good demonstration, you know. Yeah. So then the doors pop. the riot cops go in or the regular screws? No, fuck, no. These guys are a sort team, SRT.

They're coming in with turtle suits, full body armor helmets, goggles, mask, air masks, because they're flooding you with gas. And, you know, I say this, you know, because I have my websites and one of the screws from there, one of the COs got sick, sent me him, hey, Brandon, what's up? This is so-and-so, man. Remember I was in Lewis? I do remember him? He goes, man, we all respected you, man.

That was a hell of a demo you put down that day. And like, it's cool because they respect it when someone stands up for themselves. You know, like, and it was wrong, you know, what they did. But then again, I understand. I mean, like, like, where there's rules in there, like, don't stash your knives in the laundry room. Well, every, every, always some idiot's going to do it. We didn't have washers and dryers the last eight years I was in. You had a hand washer clothes or send it down the laundry and them cards and wash it with these fucking nasty-ass dudes that never wash themselves or their clothes.

And it's like I don't want my clothes in the same, you know. And it's like now my hands are tore up from just wringing clothes and washing them by hand. It's just prison, like I said, integrating the sex offenders. There's a lot of stuff, man, that's changed. So the doors pop and then you guys are all fighting the cops until they take you down? They come to your cell. Cuff up, cuff up. There's a whole gang of dudes with gas masks.

You're refusing to cuff up. So they finally push your port open. You can fight them and push the little train. port but they're going to get in they got like a door buster and they got a hose and they just start flooding your shell with with with with you know pepper spray and then they fucking hit a concussion grenade in there and then fuckers are gnarly in louisbourg got small cells like this scar right here is from the grenade hit me in the arm i've i've had a bunch of those like and you're in there you get your mattress it's barbaric and you can you tie a sheet around it and you got a shield and and and but we made them do

every cell and it took all day like they called the national because they ran out of shit to shoot at us. It was a good one. But I like to think that that's a, you know, that was my thing, is I want to do what's good for everybody. You know, I want to stand up, just like I am out here. You know, I mean, it's like I want to stand up for the underdog. You know, my mission isn't to be captain save everybody, you know.

But I mean, I want to always do what's right, you know, and tyranny is gnarly. Tyranny is evident through the BOP, the mistreatment. Um Staples preferred Business Membership Built for busy business owners Because you've got bigger things to think about

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Visit staples.com ce.comfired That was easy. Nothing gets me angrier whether you know you're looking at the federal government going to war against the wishes of the people down to the mistreatment of prisoners. Nothing gets me angrier than tyranny. Yeah. It's the most intense form of violence, even when it's not done in physical ways, like the way that you were basically railroaded to prison through all these illegal acts from the prosecution. Like that's, it's the most anti-American thing.

I could think of. There's a book about Arizona called Down and Dirty Justice, and it talks about so many corrupt people, and many of them were involved in my case. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's brought up but not fixed. Did you ever fight? You mentioned me off camera that you got down with some cops.

Would you fist fight cops? I mean, if they fucking disrespect you, yeah. I mean, you go hard. I mean, we're fighting them every time they're extracting us. You're doing everything. You're kicking and elbowing and grabbing. and grabbing their helmets and pulling them in. Like, Bumper's done some good demos, the one you had.

That's my boy, Gary Dotson. Shout out, dude. Yeah, I always, yeah, that's my dude, man. He's funny. He's a dangerous one, too. For sure, for sure. He's about the business, yeah. But you, I thought you would like, I thought cops would, if they were pissed off at you,

say, meet me in the other room. In the old days, you could do that. In the old days, I would say, okay, outwater, there were some gangster cops that would let you get a fair one ahead up. Yeah, no question. Yeah. And, you know, and in Victorville there was. But, you know, once, you know, region finds out, you know,

you guys are doing this and that, like it's completely changed. And here's the messed up thing is, like I did 11 years in isolation. I mean, sometimes that I was selling, sometimes I wouldn't. I was in the whole lot, you know. And out of my 22, I did about half of it locked down. But there's always yard lockdowns now. Like towards the last couple years of my bid, here's their trick. Oh, we're short of staff.

We're going to lock you guys down. Short of staff. And then two guys get off on each other in a cell and 30 cops run in the unit. I'm like, they're all in the back watching TV, eating food, you know? Like they just, they don't want us out. They split every major penitentiary. They've split in half now. You don't even interact with the other side.

Therefore, you're not getting as much wreck. Like you're not getting as much yard time because it takes so long to unload each unit one by one. On that side, put them all back, wait. and then unload all you. And within the day, anything can happen that causes a lockdown. Like, in the old days, the guns would go off. The grenades would come out of the tower, the warning shots. And two dudes would be getting down on one dude, stabbing the fuck out of him on the sidewalk.

He's leaking everywhere. Everyone would take a knee. Stay where they're at. Back up from the incident. They would load the guy off on a gurney. Business as usual. Continue. Now the deuce is go off.

meaning the sirens. Whether you're in the unit or anywhere, the whole prison's locked down. Everyone went to their cells. Now, now, now. And it's like another reason. Like every little way they do it is to just give you less time out of your cell.

And in the hole, which we call the shoe, S-HU, special housing unit, they're supposed to give you one hour a day, five days a week. I've never been in a hole that ever, ever, towards the end of my bid, ever honored that.

And there's a reason that you're supposed to be let out. Because dudes go crazy. They commit suicide. They, you know, it's, it's just the mental part of it. You know, you got to be tough, man. Like when I, all the whole time I did, I programmed. I got up every morning, got my food, you know, went to the table, ate it, went to my bed, sat down, digested, read a couple chapters, got up, did yoga, stretched, and worked out. And then get done, shower.

Some cells have showers in them. Some you got a shower in the sink, or you can get. get out to the shower. And when I'm out here now and I remember back, like how much time I did in those small spaces. And look, I got bros that done 33 years, like in the whole Tommy Silverstein, legendary killer, white dude, maybe monster, killed a cop at Marion,

the old Super Max, got out of his cuffs, the name officer Cluds. This guy was like a cop on the green mile that killed the guy's mouse. Piece of shit. Yeah. fucked with the wrong dude, man. And that dude just slaughtered him.

But he ended up doing 33 years in the whole, I think Atlanta, they built like a dungeon cell when it used to be a USB. And they had floodlights. They had a glass front and floodlights in his face for five years. No darkness. You survive. I mean. I don't know, man. The human mind and body is an amazing thing.

Like, you learn that. You learn that quick. Yeah. It starts with the mind. You have to decide. I'm either going to break or not. Yeah. I read 900 books when I was in there.

Counted them. I'm just estimating, but... And I know men that have read more, and, you know, I used to immerse myself in a historical fiction, the Genghis Khan story. It was gnarly. You know, the Saxon tales about the Vikings, Saxons, and the, you know, the English fighting.

And, you know, all those kind of books are the story of Julius Caesar, you know, the Roman Empire and things like that. And I would immerse myself in books like that of war because they're out in the middle of nowhere and they're on these gnarly like walks, hikes, marches. And they're, you know, in the wilderness, you know, they were really good with the hawks,

the falconiers. And, you know, the Romans, you know, they marched forever, you know. And even the Greeks, you know, like, you know, 300, the movie. And, you know, and the Vikings, that's my culture, you know, I'm Irish, Norwegian, you know. And, you know, it's,

just amazing. And I get seasick. That sucks because I would never have made it out there on a sailboat. Well, I can sit in the water and surf all day. If I get on a boat, I'm screwed. But that's how I did it. Yeah, yeah. You seem like you would be good at prison.

You're just a dead. I mean, you've kind of always been this obsessed, active person from your early days surfing and getting in fights and. Well, I box. I try to avoid fights. But every time I was young, you know, if you go into a club and you got the bag of Coke and you got your looks and you're driving a badass car and you're taking the bitches, dudes.

They're just haters, you know. Like, I never, ever, ever have, I can remember I started a fight. Maybe in the water, like if someone cuts me off on my own break or, but they started it. In the valley, bro. Oh, no, it's jump right on them and get them, you know. But I was always kind of an enforcer in the water. That was, surfers are tough, man. I'm worried about sharks, dude.

I'm not. I don't know, man. I've seen them. I've been bumped into by them. Like gray whites? Well, that's who they have by him. I mean, I was in Puerto Escandito and I snapped my leash on a 15-foot day, which is the Mexican pipeline. It's all the way down.

And Porto is down there near Wajaka. It's right before you go into Central America. It's a legendary big way. But long story short, I snapped my board in half. And you're on the impact zone. I got half my board and a leash on my leg, but the other half's gone. And now you either go in, but that's, there's huge sense. I tried to get out.

And I did. And I got on a half a board. I made it out. And then I got sucked in a rip current right out in front of the fish factory where they chop up fish guts and it goes I got swept about a half a mile down shore and then fuckers were bumping it I'm talking hammerheads I don't know what I mean I saw the hammerheads because I was just like oh my god I'm gonna die man I'm like fuck I'm just looking at the sky waiting for that bite but they got so much other food there in the sharks you know they're they taste

way sushi tastes better than humans you know so would you ever be in the hole in the shoe locked the fuck down, looking at the ceiling, thinking so far from that moment. Like when I was in prison, I would just, like, I would think back to the old days when I would be like in Argentina looking at the sunrise, you know, on wherever I was at, whatever part of the country I was visiting. And now I'm in this fucking dungeon of a prison in eastern Oregon in the hole, looking at the ceiling thinking, did that? ever really happened. I'm so far. I'm so far away. It was like a dream. Would you ever like think about those moments in the hole, like when you were surfing? Yeah, I'd replay a lot of moments, you know,

in my life, a lot with my child. Yeah. And a lot with surfing and partying. And, you know, I remember the relationships I had with various women I had in my life that I valued, but mostly like, you know, thinking about my parents and my son. my wife, you know, the closest people to me, you know, and the times I had. And, you know, I'm really close to my family. So, you know. When did you, you say you did 11 years in the hole? Was that straight?

No, it would be like two here, one here, two year, one here, six months, six months here. What did you catch the long shots for, the two-year shots? Having too much power or violence. Right. Can you explain that at all? because in 2013. If you have, go ahead. Sorry, I suck at interviewing sometimes.

No, it's me. Go ahead. Can you explain that at all? Like in 2013, you got validated for being in the area of brotherhood. But I assume leading up to that, you had already gained a lot of power. And that's why you got validated. They don't give that. Well, I mean, you can get validated just because you hang out in the circle.

I've seen guys get validated just because they unfortunately got sold up with one of them. So I don't, you know, again, you know, but after 13, after that specific murder, I mean, they had never seen anything like that. Not really. I mean, fuck, I've seen the natives do some gnarly ones. Like, but I've seen everybody that Mexican, everybody's done them, but that was particularly gruesome. What murder is that? The David Snow murder at 13. That was a validated Aryan Brotherhood guy.

I hated him, but, you know, and I tried to get him, like the week before, I tried to get him. I'd actually called him in a bathroom with a bone crusher, a big-ass knife, and he refused to come in there with me. And that's a violation. And I called him various words that you should have come at me with a knife, but he didn't. But I'm glad he didn't because I wouldn't be here. What was his violation? Why did he get hit? Yeah, talk about it.

Really? It's not even public record? There's a lot of people that, I guess it was a personal issue. I can't talk about anything like that. Can you describe what the murder was? Because you were there in the prison. There's 62 stab wounds, allegedly, by two different people. But I did the deposition and told them what really happened.

I said it was self-defense. And they attacked one guy, and I don't know what happened after the cell. Where, what part of the prison did this happen? 6A, Victorville, in a cell. in the cell house. Wow. They ran into a cell? I guess.

That's what they ended up. But I gave a deposition on that. I told them what they needed to hear. And what I believed happened and what would help those two men to beat their charges. Right. And nobody can say,

I ever folded. And there's some people out there and you know who the fuck you are. You fucking folded and you took the bait and you ruined your career doing it. And you were going to testify against me and a bunch of other people and you never got the fucking chance.

And now you gotta look in that mirror, the rest of your life and hate yourself because you didn't do what you should have done. That's all that matters in the end. That's all that matters. You think that if those two dudes had just held their mud, that- Oh, and they're both gonna get out now. Because see what their trick is,

is they wait till you've done a couple decades like I had, like these men had. And you're almost out. You're about to hit the end of your sentence. They tried that on me with 30 days left. And I've, I looked at them and said, fine, I guess I'm gonna stay in ADX the rest of my life. And man, I was sick afterwards, but I don't have a choice.

And but they're almost out. You're almost there. And they say, okay, because the feeling of walking down your date and then you get right to it, and it's like, well, their words were, hey, Brandon, what are you gonna do the next? 20 years of your life. Meaning we're gonna fucking indict you

and give you life. First of all, I'm living more than 20 years. And secondly, I'm doing it right where the fuck I'm at. I mean, true story, right? I mean, it's like, but these other guys, there's two in particular that I won't name. It's like, it's so sad what they did. I was so close to both of them too.

So they folded, but my question was, do you think the murder would have gone? unsolved if they had just kept it solid not talk. No, it's, I mean, something that gruesome. Like, they, you know, I mean, there's cameras everywhere. I mean, it's, I don't care, you know, like, there was so much blood evidence. Like, it was like one of the guys came back to my unit.

He was in my unit. And he'd been plet out so I can talk about it. And he had changed his clothes and got out of there. And they even did a census count. They're like, oh, he's in there sleeping. There's blood from the floor to the ceiling. That's he shoved under the bunk. He's getting a little stiff.

And the one guy, he came in the unit with his boots. There's still blood. Like it was a good one. But, you know, like I said, the week before, he was mine, you know? And I was making a name for myself. And he bitched up. And I'm glad he did because I wouldn't be here. Now, when you say,

you said these some things to them. You're a, hey, bitch, hey punk, get in here. And so the rules are you have to, if you're called a bitch or a punk, you have to go see that person. I'm trying to kill you for calling me that. I am. Yeah, I'm definitely stabbing you.

Like, there's some other sets that are like, ah, bitch, what you, like, you know, they're not white, you know, and they play with the word, but we don't. You know, neither does them. A lot of other people. I'm not going to put anybody on blast. We just have a really rigid.

We move like a platoon in there, man. And people recognize it. You know, like, there's dangerous motherfuckers in every car, man. I got friends in every race that I respect. So if you call someone, like, if we know each other, what if you just call me a bitch, but I didn't have any idea? I'm just...

Oh, like, if you're on the yarn, okay, if you're on the yard, you're running with the whites. Some guy goes, that man, fuck you, bitch. And everyone will freeze. When's he going to hit him? And you don't do anything, then we're getting you. Right. We're going to crush you.

We may not stab you, we're going to crush you, get rid of you. You're going to get ran off, no matter what. Yeah. And it's weird. It almost sounds juvenile. I'm so glad that life's over, but it's not juvenile. It's the rules. And without no rules, there is no structure.

And without no structure, other people will take advantage of your. when it's war time. Yeah, we're up every morning. Outside your door, Shub's on, a minute that door opens, or else. And you say there's no sleeping during the day. Why is that?

Because say something pops off in the unit and with another race and you're in your house sleeping and some white guys getting dusted off by another race or another car, whatever, and you weren't there like, oh, where was he? He's in his bunk.

You're next. Yeah, it's a serious time, you know. But it's been, it's been, you know, I like to say, oh, I'm tough and it didn't bother me. But everyone around sees the mood swings, the PTSD. I'm trying to ask my P.O. If I can do the ketamine treatment. You know, ketamine used to be a, you know, it's literally an animal tranquilizer, but they have a new thing out and it works.

and it's helping people. And I just want to get it cleared so I don't get a bad drug test because I've read literature on it and it can change. And, you know, I have a really bad problem with disrespect. I have a bad problem.

Road rage, you know, like I just, I don't smoke. And so when something happens on the road, I grab a vape, like a flavored vape. One of my youngsters, JJ, left in my car. I'm like, fuck, that guy's an idiot. You know, like it's tough, you know, because, you know,

from being in that environment, you cannot show weakness, you cannot back down. And I got to come to realize that sometimes it's better to show discretion, the greater part of valor. Like, I'm going to give my life away for one guy. Because if I engage, I have to just take it all the way because it's an assault. I'm a career criminal at that point. I'm never getting out. So I might as well just whack him and go and run. and that way there's no witness.

And because it's sad because that's kind of the way. I'm not beat my chat. I'm just saying this is the reality of it. I'm not going to just submit and go back. So you really lived through a war. And you did that for years. About 10 tours of duty. 10 tours of duty.

That's what my dad always says. He's so cool. He's such a beast. He's just like, damn boy, you did like 10 tours of duty, man. When they would come visit you, did they know what you were living through? Or did you try to keep up from me? Some stuff you don't share, you know.

You just can't. You know, everything's cool. You know, like, you know, my son especially, I mean, when he would come there, I just, I had the best visits with him. And, you know, when I went in, he was eight. I had full custody at the time. And he was taken from me when he was 21 to gun violence. So sorry. Yeah.

And I was in the hole, as always, a big Sandy Penitentiary. And when I received the news, I was shackled up with double everything, black black. box and I thought one of my parents had passed and when they got me in the lieutenant's office they told me who it was and I've not gotten through talking about it on a couple and but I've learned now it's like I'm good you know I'm not I'm more stuff that lives within me but yeah I do stuff in his honor and he was a good kid man he worked with autistic kids when he was eight like who does that you know like he had such as a sense of right he was didn't even He was like martial arts, respectful, humble, a really nice kid.

His name is Tyler. He's so sorry. Yeah, I was. And the wrong guy was shot. The little deranged shooter was there to shoot his cousin. What happened? Was it over like that? It was over a fist fight where four little Asian kids jumped on his cousin.

And Tyler ran around to the corner and just helped his cousin. He was getting jumped. And it was just a fist fight, nothing crazy. And then four years later on Christmas Eve, They showed up at his cousin's house to kill him on a gang initiation and Tyler had come back because they had raised him And so he came you know we took care of financial responsibilities, but they raised him and they did a good job and And he lived with his cousins and his aunt and uncle and Vista and they came there that night to shoot his cousin and And when Tyler walked out he's like that'll do and so it's something that I have nightmares about

It's something I you know like you could take a lot of stuff and you can have done done a lot of crazy shit. But when someone takes an innocent child, that was yours. From the producers of the horror classic Evil Dead. Our grandfather believed the devil would return if anyone read from the Book of the Dead. Kundal. We found you. On July 10th.

What do we do just deserve this? Every family. We can be reunited. Has its demons. I could never have lived without you. I won't let you live without me. Evil Deadburn. Only in theaters, July 10th.

Everybody that's lost a child wears it. You know. I can't even imagine. It makes me almost not what I have kids. Yeah, you know, they say love hurts, man. Yeah, that's a... I wanted to have a kid when I got home, you know? So bad.

I wanted to carry on my... He was the last living boy. But I wanted to carry on our bloodline. and, you know, I'm just getting a little old to do that, you know. I don't want to pull a Robert De Niro and have a kid when I were now, Pacino. I'm a fucking kid when you're 80, you know, come on, man. I mean, I'm pretty fit, you know, I mean, I've... Dude, you're a young 62.

No, I mean, and that's what I'm... That's what my marketing thing is now. I've been approached by the largest provider of peptides, weight loss, legal testosterone, all that stuff. I mean, as a poster child for what can happen. and, you know, if you take care of yourself. And I was kind of like this, you know, before, but the peptides really helped me heal a lot of stuff.

Yeah. My shoulder, like, I have a torn bicep off the bone. Like, I've just, I'm obsessed with working out, like six days a week, all the time. I used to log all my workouts. It was funny. I'd be in the hole. And dudes would be across the hall and they look out. And I remember this black dude, and I'll do an imitation not to be ready.

He'd be like, damn, that's you, Dago Ma? I'm in my box. They're sweating. Oh, what's all? Who's that? Man, Ricky, man. Fuck, man, everywhere I go. You're in the home, man.

You're working all day, man. He's like, I'm just laughing going, yeah. But it's just, yeah. Yeah, he just. They called you Daigo Mark? Daigo. Yeah, Daigo, like an Italian? No, Dego as in.

Diego, of San Diego. No, Daigo, as in we took the I.E. Out of Diego, like a set trip. I'm from the coast. Yeah. They're from the I. But I got bros from everywhere. But I feel like such a square.

San Diego. Yeah. No, yeah, but Daigo, it's just an old joke. Like, Daigo is kind of a slang for San Diego. Where are you from? I'm from Daigo. Yeah. No, I'm not Italian.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, you look great, and I think you should have a kid, dude. I think you should do it. I mean, look. Or meet a girl that has a kid that I can help raise. Sure. That could happen to. Let it fly, man.

I just love being in a kid's life in a positive way. I love teaching them things. like, you know, how to play a sport or just how to fix something or, you know, and I really want to get to the point where I have impact, you know, I have a lot of stories to tell and I have a lot of positive messages for kids. And my credibility is real, you know, I've been through it. And look, there's a whole bunch of other guys who've been through time like I have. But I mean, it's like it's just crazy with the case, the way it happened, the way I won it, like fighting the law with no lawyers now, winning. And, you know, my way. my thirst to go home to see my family and to see my loved ones. Well, just aside from winning your appeal in the feds, which is very rare to begin with, the fact that you never got one of your assaults or your acts of violence in prison shot over to the U.S. attorney. Oh, I had three referrals.

But when you have a life sentence, pretty much, they don't pick them up. I've had FBI referrals. Okay, you know. Well, a lot of times they'll, you know, they'll refer them. And if they go, well, fuck, this guy's got 35 years left and he's, and he's 42, you know, they're like, for what's the point? It's just wasting time. But, man, I bet they wish they pulled one of them on me now. For sure.

Because I would have had to do that after the sentence. Right. Trust me, bumper. Bumper's had some referrals. Trust me. Right. Yeah, that's my boy, man. Like, it's cool because I get to communicate him with them, you know, on the internet and we share stories and stuff.

He's just, he's different now. Like, he really is. He's really grounded. He's kind of backed away from a lot of the, you know, like, pretty normal. No, he is, man. And he's, and he's, yeah, he's really come a long ways. I'm proud of him. He's one of the guys I can look at online that I know that's kind of visible.

And I can be like, yeah, he's legit. And he'll say the same thing about me. A question about FBI referrals for crimes committed in prison between inmates. Could they, do they have to refer them when you're down? Or could they refer them? They could refer them later, but there's a statute, five years to do it. Right. Yeah, like it got kind of gnarly.

Like at Beaumont, like we always carry knives. We always have them on us. Like, everywhere you go. On your person. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, there might be a few times when you don't have one, or you have a floater, you have a Plexiglass one, or, you know, you can make some gnarly knives out of window.

Right. The Plexiglass window, those things don't break. Those are just usually for getting somebody off of you. No. No. you can make some I mean we in the back of the day we're making them out of you know

pure stainless steel which doesn't ring in a fucking metal detector aluminum you know like there's ones you can make there's various types but me I prefer you know give me a nice piece of iron or stainless you know I'm not really a pick guy but you could take a like I had one that was a

spatula and it had this super gnarly handle on it you know and the fascia handle went into like this high grade stainless handle. And then I sharpen that thing. And it was this, and then we melted a handle on it with plastic. And then first you wrap this black sticky shit around,

you melt this handle on it. And it just glues to it. You got this pick. I used to wear that light in my crotch, you know. And but yeah, I mean, I've had to keister a knife. I mean, that's not easy. Like maybe it's a short one. You know you're gonna get caught with it.

You either get rid of it. or you save it, you know what I mean? That shit. So you got caught with some knives and sent some whole shots just for carrying. Oh, yeah. But in Beaumont, if you're under two years and you get caught with one on you, they make you go to court and they're going to give you. You can plea out and get an extra 18 months or two years or you can go to court and get three or four years. Right before you get out.

And man, if you're not carrying a knife all the time, like there's, man, you're really risking your life if you're in the game. if you're in the game. Right. Like I was kind of a pawn on the, I mean, excuse me, I was kind of not a pawn on the chest table. I was one of the higher pieces. So if something were to happen and someone wanted to make a statement, you know, like they would come after me. Like you would have anybody in an army, you want to go out the guy that's ahead of it. So speaking of that, what was the game, the hustle?

What were you, were you hustling in there making money? There's everything to control in there. There's a lot of things you control. From card tables to drugs to booze. Booze was big? Man. Back in the day when there was still sugar, at any given time, we'd have 30, 40 gallons of Pruno in the roof stashed or in the wall or in our cells.

And then we'd build, you know, stills. Like we'd get an iron, electric cord to the wall, put it in a bag, put it in a bucket, it, heat up the water, get it boiling, put your booze in there, run a plastic tube, wherever you can get it, and run it up into the sink. And then you put ice in there and you make pure moonshine. And that stuff's worth a lot of money. Like, yeah, you can sell it for $50 a soda bottle, you know. Yeah, there's money in that.

And the profit margin must be insane. Yeah, it is, but it's a hassle. I mean, it's really hard. It's gotten bad now, like the stash spots that we usually use or, you know, and the lights, You know, there's really nowhere you can hide it at the higher level spots. We even get ingenious, and one of my guys was doing the work for the, you'd be outside on a crew, and he dug this underground pit, and we had it outside, and we'd just throw some booze in it. We had a board over it, throw dirt over it, let it cook.

It's got a breather tube, come back and get wasted. You know, it's funny, but now it's not, it's just way harder. The visiting room, you're not getting drugs in. The mail's copied at the higher yards, because a lot of people will, break down the drugs and spray them on the paper and reconstitute them or just smoke the paper. But the bad pandemic that happened in there was that synthetic marijuana, K2, spice. Yeah, it's just, it was a very dangerous thing to throw into an environment with dangerous people because people smoke and start having hallucinations and, you know, PCP type shit, you know,

and just go nuts and start sticking people. Yeah, and we had a rule. if you came out and had a quote episode, meaning you smoke some and you got out of control and you made a fool yourself, we smashed you out the yard immediately. Yeah, the races, some of them would laugh. Look at do.

You could do swimming across the day room. It's like, that ain't funny. It's a bad look for the whole car. You say you got into a couple of wars. Can you go into that? Just where the day room gets off, you know, different races. Everyone starts hitting each other.

Okay. You know. So this is when the races. This is when the rules between the races and the respect break down. Or gangs. You know, other gangs, you know, or, you know, the race wars are the gnarliest. Okay, yeah, that's kind of what I meant. Everybody's in it.

What was it over? What were the ones you were in? What was that over? It could be like in Arizona. I have one where a certain dude just, you know, you had rules. We were only out so long. There's phone line. And one guy gets on the phone, makes a call.

He's supposed to hang up, go to the back of the line. He just double clutches the phone, dials again. It was an African-American from Chicago. Yeah, from Shytown, I ain't got to listen. Well, I bet you listen now. You know what I mean? Like, first of all, you disrespect to everyone and then put your face right next to a box that's metal. So you just run up behind him with an open palm and start it out and let him have it,

split his whole face open and get on them. I don't care how big you are. Like, you start out like that. That's the key. You get off first, you know. But it's, you know, there's so many reasons why it goes. It could be someone's too loud. It could be someone bumped into someone.

It could be the smallest things. And people might say, oh, that's so juvenile. Maybe, but it's hell of dangerous. Fuck, like, you know, yeah, dudes will book you. I actually understand it. I've seen a guy get murdered for $20 bill. $20 in stamps. No.

Killed several times. Because it's not the amount of money. It's the fact that you keep walking by me on the sidewalk. not paying me. And now it's like you were my bro when you needed whatever I gave you. And now you're like ignoring me. And, you know, and it's just... Was that a white guy?

I've seen it happen in every race. People just get tired of you like with me. Like I'm really weird about that. Everyone's all, man, you don't want to owe him because I just start gritting. I still do it out here. I grit on stuff. If I hear something that I don't like, it could be anything. It could be something.

It could be a dispute with a good friend of mine. or whatever, and I feel like he's disrespected me or played me, like I'll stew on it, and then in about six hours I'll get on the text, and then I'll be like, I'm going to come down and talk to you, because I feel like, you know, I need to. Because, you know, if I'm your friend, I'm never going to do anything shady or sideways with you, and I'm always going to be loyal and honorable.

I'm not going to try and, you know, get over on you or fuck your chick or whatever. You know what I mean? I'm always going to be a good guy. Yeah, lending money and borrowing money can be a dangerous thing in the joint. Yeah, more people get booked over debts than almost anything. When people get booked in there, is it usually within the cars themselves? Yeah, you don't see a lot of people moving across the lines. It's usually dealt within the cars.

When it goes across the lines, it's definitely like someone could have a disagreement, say a white and a black or on the yard, and they just get into it. And they know immediately that they can stop it, The administration with gas and non-lethal or lethal, they immediately will go to the unit with whoever's runs the yard for each specific set that got into it. And then we'll go out and we'll talk about it and either we'll put it to rest or we won't.

Or you'll fake like you're putting it to rest and rock them to sleep. I've seen people get so rocked to sleep before, like thinking they're not going to get hit. It's okay, man. I understand, you know. And then like the old days, you know, like they come up.

oh, hey, we got a guy in the hole, and he just transferred, and he's asking, you know, can he come out? And I get so offended by that. Like, I cannot say a guy can't come out. That's being a snitch. I turn on the cop. I say, let everybody out.

Don't ever ask me that fucking question again. Everyone's good to come out. Like, it got to the point where it's like, you know, and then there's, oh, no, man, dude's a piece of shit. Well, and then let him come out and act like a man. Be a man yourself, as a matter of fact. snitch on them, let them out. And that's another, like there's so many ways to take it to another level where you're inviting the violence. Did you have to make when you, because you had the

yard or you had the unit, what is the difference between having the yard and having the unit? Units are designated to guys that the guy who has the yard feels, has the mindset, the mouthpiece, has the propensity to commit violence that can actually handle that unit. But whoever has the yard is the one that really comes down to you. But the units need a good rep. Every unit has to have a rep, someone who's level-headed, and someone who's good enough to have dialect with the other people from other races,

but yet dangerous enough not to let them get walked over. It has to be. And if you hear of it happening, you've got to change out the guy. And you may not even discipline him. You're like, hey, man, the way you handled that, I don't like it. You know, that was too soft. Or you're being a tyrant. Look, dude, just chill.

I'll put you on the next mission. You can get that out of your system. But don't fucking, you know, be bulldogging everybody. And a lot of people play favorites, you know, like whenever I'm on a yard and, you know, there's all West Coast. There's, oh, fuck, Mark's here, you know, yeah, it's going to be better. And I always tell him, yeah, you know, I'm going to lean toward you, but you fuck up, you know, you're white. He's white. I don't care where they're from.

You know, we're all white, you know. So the unit rep is like the under boss. Yeah. He's like the plaza boss. And the guy who's got the yard, well, that's self-explanatory. He's the shock caller. Did you have the yard ever? Many places.

Was it, that must have been very high stress. I was going to say. It's a lot of work. You get tired of it. Because you're the one. You can get a yard by being either a particularly dangerous made man from a particular gang. Or you can get the yard just because the people know that you'll have. handle it the best. It doesn't have to be a gang member. It could be anybody. I mean,

there's, look, there's a lot of guys that were smart enough not to join a gang. You know, there's fucking cold killers. Alan Shelby comes to mine from Oregon. One of the most, he was in my cell when I got the news that my son was murdered. And I met him and got along with him. And then me and him just about went in a day room with knives and got down with each other. And I can tell you this, I'm glad I didn't. That dude is skilled. I'm good, but that dude is another level. And he was like, like, I'm glad he was my dude, man. He was on my side, you know, and just an amazing martial artist.

And I don't mean like dancing around playing kung fu dance. This dude struck so fucking hard and had so many skills, hands, feet, elbows, knife fighting. He was gnarly. Everyone knew Allen Shadden. He got out after 33 years and I'll be down if he didn't overdose within three months. Everybody has an Achilles heel. Yeah. Alan was cool.

So you're delegating. you're making decisions. You're swashing beefs, escalating beefs. I can say this. I save prisons from more violence than I caused because I always know, like, there's a way, you know, because there's going to be a lot of toll, you know. I mean, look, it doesn't mean I was soft.

I mean, I just, this is how we're going to fix this. And it was crazy because with two months to the gate before I was getting released, we had to standoff with the blacks. And I was front and center and people like, man, why don't you just rest, man, go home? We're wanting to go home. And this particular guy got some money sent to him

from a particular white gang member from the other side of the yard. It was $500. And when the money was sent for whatever he was buying, obviously something illicit. The black dude's response was, man, that money went to my chick, man. And she just spent it, I can't.

You're hit. And like, and it's like, I think it was the South, 30 South, yeah. And then the word comes to me from another. guy from another gang and you know and and and he was just like hey can you deal with this I'm like 60 90 days to going home and we're in a standoff at the middle of the yard and and I'm basically just telling him look dude and then when they see us and it's like when you start talking and then they bring some dudes and you bring some dudes and everybody sees it everybody now it's uncontrollable it's like an eruption everybody sees the gathering and now there's 30 on 30 and and the conversation's going down and and And then now with us, with me especially, now the Souragnos and the Islanders and the natives are coming around. The ones that, specific cars at that time, it's usually always going to be the Souranios, you know, they back me up.

Because, you know, we back them in certain things. And, you know, and Mexico Mafia. But, you know, it's just about to blow up. And I'm just like, look, man, I'm 90 days at the gate. You know who I am. You know what I'm about. This isn't going to go away. I mean, look, now you got 20 of your homeboys here.

One of each you put up 30 bucks and pay this, man, because it's, you know, it's gonna fucking go and it's gonna go hard. And it's so close and they end up taking care of it. But I mean, it was, I remember, and that's when I tried to do everything I could, man, to stay away from stuff. And then, you know, I mean, five months to the gate. I mean, I had to do something and almost took it too far.

And I remember voices, stop, stop, Mark, stop. You're never gonna go home, he's gonna die, you know. And guy has to stay in a cell for a week. I mean, he was, that was a particular one, was a younger guy, kind of stout from out of state, just, you know, said the wrong thing. And I didn't want to kill him. I actually went and itself, put my knife on the bunk and just got busy and showed him like, hey, yeah, I might be at that point, 59, and you might be above 30. And I just crushed him. Yeah, I don't need a knife.

But, no, I try to give him every chance. But, and that was all stemmed from me losing the mouse, man. I had a pet. This is remarkable. This is where my book starts. You know, after five, six years after the death of my son, I needed something. I always had little pets,

and I love showing love, the little creatures. And this guy in the child hall, it's a great chapter I wrote. He comes with a bucket, a little cottage cheese thing with three rats, but I didn't let anyone call him rats. I said, this is a mouse. Don't call him nothing else. So I took the three, and I,

I made him this badass home out of like a box that bananas came in. You know, put toilet paper walls together and cut the ends of socks and made them like a habit trail. And I treated these things like, you know, it was like, and I had all written on that. I'm single-celled. I'm always in my house. And I had the box and I wrote on it in big letters.

Attention. My pet mouse is in this box. Please do not hurt this creature. Please notify me on shakedown. they respected that because everybody knew I'd lost my son. So when these three little pets of mine, you know, they started growing up and their eyes opened, I got them when they had their eyes closed. And it was Turbo, Shamrock, and Little.

And so Turbo and Little died. I don't know why I was doing like milk and peanut butter. I used to feed them with little droppers. And they died. I think Shamrock killed Turbo because they were both healthy. And then one day Turbo was dead. So anyway, Shamrock is my boy, you know, and I got him, and he's my pet. And now I've got him trained, you know, like I sleep on the floor because I'm single-celled,

and I clean the floor real good and lay my mattress down, and Shamrock's in the box. But see, now he's bigger. He's bigger. His body's like that. And I've had him for like eight months now, set now six months. And he can get out of the box. Like at 10 o'clock at night, they're nocturnal creatures. He's, so I'm letting him out because I'm not going to hear that all night.

and he's going to get out. And I just hoped I wouldn't step on him or injure him. Imagine that. You're asleep. So it was so cute. At night, I would fall asleep. I would let him out. I'd block the door with towels.

And I'd just let him run rampant. He would climb everywhere. I had net bags hanging. He could jump on. But every night he would come, and I'd have my knee up. He'd want me to put my knee up on the floor, and he would run up and down my leg and down to me.

But I'd be dead asleep, and he would crawl up on me. and he would stick his nose in my nose and wake me up gently. It was the most beautiful thing. And he was my pet, but I equated him to my son because I hadn't had any creatures since him that I could say this is my pet. I love him and I want to take care of him. And so anyway, I'd have him in the day room and I'd put in my pocket.

I'd just cruise around. He'd run up around and back in my pocket. And it was funny because some of the blacks, they'd be like, oh, that nasty thing. I said, yeah, that's my dude, man. And most people, you know, there's people that will like it. There's other, you know, there's people that don't, you know. That thing's nasty is my pet.

And I fed him good. So anyway, he's grown up and everything's cool. And I know the day's going to come when either I'm going to just roll over on him because I'm on the floor. Right. I know it's going to happen. I'm set myself up for heartache, you know. And so one night, I was laying the bunk, I throw the mattress. First I'd clean the floor spotless.

and I throw the mattress down. It's between the bunk and the lockers, and there's very little space. So I'm stepping over, and I think he's still in his box, because he was a second ago. A little I know he's chewed a hole in the back, and I stepped over the bunk,

and my foot's right about here, and he runs out, and I bare foot, and I squish him. And it just hit me, like, gnarly. Like, I held him in my hands, and I just, he died in my hands. and that's kind of like it brought everything back.

The kid on the cement, on the pavement, screaming, hell, dad, you know. Anyway, so it dies and I just, I lose it. Like, it's the first time I lost it like that. Like since, I mean, obviously I completely fucking lost it when I lost my kid. But it was just because I nurtured him and I was my little dude, you know, and when he died, I just sat there and cried like a baby.

Yeah. And it was like just because of the relation, the correlation. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly, 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you,

Peace contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. How did you manage this grief, this loss, and then still go about your daily duties in basically what is like low-intensity warfare on the yard running? I started helping people, man. I started like donating my time to help people. read and, you know, trying to give myself, like, let me try to help some other people, you know, that I could feel like I'm dealing with a child, you know, like I have some friends that have kids and some people close to me right now that have kids. And I just love to be part of their life and to teach them things. And, you know, a lot of people can say shit about me, like,

oh, that dude, you know, he's this, he's at, whatever. But one thing I am is a very humane guy and I'm very loving and I'm very, you know, I don't wear the tough guy too hard for the yard exterior all the time. I just, I am that. I'm just not. I try to show people like, man, I got a heart like gold, you know. And that kid, the guy that I beat up that almost killed, it happened like right after that.

He picked the worst fucking time to tell me I wasn't going to put MMA on the TV. I'm like, man, you must have fucking, wow. He didn't tell me. He told one of my dudes that told him. Your mouse had just died. And so you were in a bad way. And he almost did too. If they weren't, like,

like, if they weren't yelling at me, it was like a tunnel, I could hear it. Like, stop, you're going to kill him because the CEO had walked out front. So I was having my time with this guy in the cell. And he had to stay in the cell for a week. About six days. And it was funny, because after you completely crush someone,

like, I'm the one coming over. Hey, man, here, I got all this shit from commissary for you. store. I know you can't eat. You can't come out of the cell. Like you took your ass weapon. You didn't go check in. You didn't tell on me. And so whatever. You know what I mean? Like he's one of the few I've ever let stay because the rule of thumb, fuck someone up, make sure you get them so good, they're gone. And don't let them stay on the yard because they could just run up behind you. Yeah. But there's got to be some kind of exceptions to rules, right? There is. There has to be. Well, I mean, it's my decision. I'm the one putting my own life in danger.

Right, right, right, right, exactly. So you paroled, you beat your case, beat your case, you, yeah, I mean, I would call that beating your case. I overturned half my conviction more than half. You gave them more than half your time back. Did you parole out of a USP? Yeah, I wasn't allowed to go to anywhere but Max Penitentiaries. I was labeled as being in a disruptive group. And when you're in a disruptive group, I don't care if you have one point, your point system can go up in the 40s.

you're not going anywhere. Like any mediums. Yeah, no, I never had a chance to. I did before 13. I could have worked my points down. Right, right. But I wouldn't have made it anyway because my morals won't let me get on a line

with a sex offender. As soon as you put me there, I'm going to fucking get on that yard and get one. Or I'm just going to tell you, fuck you, I'm not staying. You can transfer me all over the place. I mean, that's kind of a more like discretion

is the better part of valor. You know, you really don't want to pick up a case, you're short. Yeah. But if a guy comes to the yard and he's walked the line with them sex offenders and he got some dirty UA's and now he's getting transferred. So if a guy came in, like in this one instance,

a guy came in from another bus load that came in and he was walking down the chair and I'm like, what's up, Wood? And I say, come here. He comes to my door. Tell him who I am. And I go, hey, man, where'd you come in from? Sharon in Oregon.

I'm all. Yeah, you're down there with my friend Kyle, man. We'll get together when the door's open. And I'm, you know, that's a. that's a yard you sign a paper and go out on it. So there's only one way you can leave there. And that's putting him work on a sex offender and not getting a bunch of dirty UAs

and having getting thrown off the yard because we're not going to tolerate that. You know, we're going to be like, you should have got off. And if you didn't, that's what's up. And, you know. So he's there because he got off, though. Yeah, he came there because he got off on one.

So he was good, you know. But that's the test, you know. Like, if I had showed up, this is going to sound like a stupid question, but like, I'm really not about hustling and gang banging. If I had showed up and I had not gotten off on a sex offender, but I had clean paperwork, what's the punishment going to be? Is it going to be the ultimate punishment? No, you get just smashed off the yard. Yeah. Yeah, because it's like it's, I mean, it's a tricky thing, man.

I've seen disciplines go too far, man. I've seen guys get killed that shouldn't have got killed because. Come on, man. You kick someone in the head or, you know, everywhere in the cell is sharp, the corners of the bunks, the sink, the toilets, the lockers. I mean, everything, it's really hard. I mean, and disciplines go bad, you know, and you feel bad if they do. But anyway. Can I defend myself?

Absolutely better. Yeah, I mean, we prefer you fight, you know. At least he went out like a good white boy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck. No. I can take that.

All right. So I'm a good wood. I just can't, I can't mainline. No, I mean, you got to go back to those kind of yards because that's the only place that'll take you now. But it's fucked up, though, because the way they do it, they really put people under pressure. But you do have a right to refuse the yard.

I had a friend of mine go to USP Tucson, and he's in the shooting. He goes, man, I ain't going out here, man. You know who the fuck I am. And he's a dangerous guy, youngster, guy Cam. We don't call him Killer Cam for nothing. And he went there and they, you know, I ain't coming out there. Fuck that.

I'm not going. I'm not going to ruin my career. And then finally he goes, you know what? You want to put me out there? Put me out there. He went out there. Went to the day room. Picked out the gnarliest mob rat there was there.

Just snitched in a long-ass case. Didn't even go for a sex offender and just destroyed this guy. And picked up time. And it's messed up because you set him up. Right, right. So would that be a violation? Like if you've, if you're a guy. like Cam, you've got, you can't put him around somebody with bad paperwork or you're going to

kill. Is when you refuse to go out? No, that's not a violation. No, because like, I always had, I had a line, you know, like let a guy at least just be like, like say you do that to a guy. They could do this to you. The administration can be real dirty. And let's say these guys, let's say these guys, they hate you. And they're like, all right, we're going to transfer him over to this yard. Because we know his reputation and we're going to make him just rot in the hole. And say the guy's like, you know what, fuck you. I'm not going to rot.

And he's short. He's under two years. And he just, you know the kind of guy he is. You know he's not going to sit in that hole forever before he says, go ahead and put me out. It's fucked up because you're setting him up. You know he's going to put in that word. Right. Or carry a knife to defend himself.

And then he's under two years. He's at Beaumont. And they say, oh, go search him. Now he's got another year and a half. Yeah. There's all kinds. Well, I mean, Boma, you know, you can always choose to carry a knife or not. It's not like mandatory.

There's some people that, you know, we just do, you know. How many penitentiaries were you in? Let's see. Started in Atwater, got reindicted, sent to Arizona for the state case. Came back to Victorville. From Victorville, I went to Hazleton. From Hazleton, I went to Hazleton. I went to

God damn, it's been a while. Oh, I went to, no. Hazleton, I went to the SMOO program. From the SMOOV program, I went to Big Sandy. From Big Sandy, I went to Lee County. From Lee County, I went to Beaumont. From Beaumont, I went back to Victorville. So I did eight of them.

So you paroled from Victorville. Oh, no, Canaan, nine. And you paroled from Victorville? Yeah, I had a five-year tag. I couldn't go there. The FBI said, fuck him. You know, don't let them come home. You guys have the murder and whatever they thought I was part of.

I didn't do that. So you're at the worst of the worst. What was the worst in terms of violence and rigidity? The way the cops treated us and the violence, Victorville from 07 to 13 was the most violent. Hazleton was like that too. Big Sandy. My man, they all had their reasons.

But Canaan sucked because the cops would flat rough you off there. Like they put their hands on you and... They beat the shit out of you. They're not to me, but I mean, they do it to regular guys and then we have to act. They were always pretty careful how they handle certain people, you know. Because they know if you've got any power, you can from the shoe, send kites out and be like, hit the cops. It's on. Yeah, I mean, man, that means the Department of Justice came into Victorville right before I left on my second tour there because

allegedly they were fucking beating the fuck out of dudes in the back. the cops were beating the fuck out of the inmates in the back they had a confederate hat i was told with dreadlocks from black people on it and that kind of went over the level dudes that they had crushed now granted they might have been dick jack and 205 gunners dudes that pulled their shit out of them and whack off on the females and that's really indigenous to them like i've never seen a white guy or a mexican guy or an island or do it but you know i've never seen any of them any of those guys that I associate would do that. But, you know, different people have different cultures, I guess.

I get a bunch of hate mail for that. But it's the truth. I mean, if you look at a gunning shot, 99% of it, it's African-American. We have black guys who have been in the feds. And not the Bloods and the Crips and the West Coast. They don't do that. Okay, it's East Coast thing. It's a trend from the East Coast, the D.C., the dirty south, the Midwest, the D.C.

And everybody knows what I'm saying is true. So anyone can throw hate. It's just the numerical fact. You won't get any. Statistical fact. You won't get any hate from that. We've had black guys, been in the feds who will confirm that. Yeah, so you know.

On this show. Oh, God. You can go look it up. Yeah, man, there's some really good dudes, you know, on the system. There's some really good black dudes I've met. For sure. And then there's the other type. You knew boy George?

Yeah, I knew him. Super interesting. If you don't know who Boy George is, I wish he would get out so he could do my podcast. I learned about this guy from a book I read, no bullshit in a sociology class when I was selling weed. at the University of Oregon, and it was about this journalist embedded herself in a Puerto Rican neighborhood in the Bronx starting in like the 1980s. And in like chapter two, one of these females that she's documenting starts dating a guy named George Rivera, Boyd George. And she described the scope of his heroin operation when he was like 19 years old. Really small quantities, but

massive customers. I mean, the guy was making like millions of dollars a week. No, for sure. No, he's making a lot of money. Wild. Wild. Like, had it built like a whole corporation. I was with him in Lewisburg Smooh. I was with him in Beaumont, Texas. Yeah, George's eye. You know, I mean, it's like,

there's an understory to what was going on in prison. Like, because he switched cars and started running, you know, with another Mexican set. I'm not even going to get into details of who it was. But it was something

that was kind of strange. And I had a really big gambling ticket. And when I was in Lewisburg-Smou, I had a huge book. I had the West Coast Sports. And there was a time when I got cracked. Like every game on the weekend, it was the playoffs. It's really dangerous when you're running four games, two Saturday, Sunday games each day and two games each day.

And I remember I got lit up. And I'm like, hey, no worries. I'll pay anybody that can take money on the wire. I'll send your green form or whatever. And, yeah, he started him and in Ha, and I had a few choice words for him. And, like, you know, but, you know, good dude, you know, good dude. He's done his work, like, he's put in. Yeah, I mean, he's been in fucking 27 years, probably.

I mean, he's been in a long time. 30, yeah, yeah, he's been in for a while. Yeah. But, I mean, yeah, no, he's, he's all right. I mean, I showed you a picture of me and him in the album. I mean, he's all right, you know, but he's been wanting to get, I can't talk about it He's trying to get out

He should He should try that Instead of some of the other things he's trying Yeah I keep hearing he's fucking up But we've talked to people That were a lot more violent In the drug game At that level that have gotten out

No yeah It's all the It really depends on What you're doing with your spare time in prison Yeah Yeah I know yeah I know him I know him well

Yeah I know pretty much everyone that's You know I mean yeah I've been on a lot of transfers You know Yeah Fuck yeah, dude.

Dago Mark, this was a lot of fun. I mean, fun and also really heartbreaking and sorry about your son. Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm happy for your freedom and I'm sorry what happened to you. I mean, look, you deserve to do some time, no doubt, but... I would have signed eight years. Yeah, I don't ever... I mean, Thomas Jefferson, his quote, was it Thomas Jefferson?

I would rather a guilty man walk free. I would rather a thousand guilty men walk free than one innocent person do a day without their freedom. And so the system really did not play fair. No, he was a great. I mean, the only thing I would touch on other than what we talked about is that what I've done now,

I've started this course called Thriving the Impossible. Yes, tell us. It's just, it's amazing how many people reach out to me that they hear my story and have lost their children. And, you know, I talk to him and I guide them through what they're going to go through the grieving process, what to expect, et cetera. Like I said in the other interview, it's like coughing locusts out, like the green mile, when the guy sucks all the poison, the cancer out of the woman.

And then he's physically ill after. It's like kind of what it does to me because I have to relive the death of my son. And so, you know, that course is something I'm proud of that I did. you know and now I'm going to be basically a poster boy for you know uh enhancement substances that are legal you know like legal peptides legal peptides and uh and legal testosterone replacement therapy and as well as HRT and even everything up to the tresepetide the retitutri the weight loss message, everything that can enhance your health. I'm linking up, and by the time this airs, you'll know exactly what the call sign is and everything,

and you're going to run it, like you said. And it's just, it's a company that I can feel good about getting people help because health is everything, like physical fitness for me anyway, has been something that's allowed me, the endorphine release, that's everything to keep me going. And I have a lot of injuries, and that stuff's helped me to maintain. my physique and I think it helped your sanity in prison. Oh, 100%. The endorphine release was mandatory, but it's just science, you know, it's modern science,

it's legal, it's stuff that I'm proud to get behind. And by the time this airs, everyone's going to see what it is. And you know, and I'm sure they'll realize that. I've used peptides based off a past guest who recommended them to me. And I'm going to switch over to your company. The link will be in the description. follow you, where can they follow you on social media? Daig-O-M-A-G-O-M-A-K-U-R-K-S-1-619.

And because I want them to follow you, and then when your book comes out, I want them to go buy your book. Southern Enterprise. Southern Enterprise. Southern Enterprise, and I want them to reach out to you, and you're just, you're a good guy to know, and you're a good guy, and I know you're going to be very successful in the peptide business and giving back. it's super cool. So thank you again. Appreciate it. Well, son. What's that? Well said. I like it.

Hell yeah. Dego Mark, right here on The Connect. My name is Johnny Mitchell. Peace out.