The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Hells Angels BIKER WARS, Mass Graves, Firebombings- George Christie On Life As A 1% OUTLAW

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

40 years inside the Hells Angels. Federal murder conspiracy charges. Bombings, informants, and a courtroom showdown with the U.S. government. In this raw, unfiltered interview, longtime Ventura Hells Angels leader George Christie tells the inside story of outlaw biker life — from the brotherhood and early motorcycle culture to violent club wars, federal investigations, and the high-stakes legal battles that nearly destroyed his life. He reveals what it was really like to: • Rise through the ranks of a legendary 1% motorcycle club • Survive assassination attempts and clubhouse bombings • Face multiple federal prosecutions — and beat them • Navigate informants, undercover operations, and government pressure • Witness the evolution of biker culture from brotherhood to organized crime conflicts This is a rare, firsthand account of one of America’s most controversial subcultures — told by someone who lived it for decades. Go Support George! Website: https://www.georgechristie.com/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/georgechristiejr/ YouTube:  @GeorgeGusChristie  Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Meet George Christie: Outlaw Legend 02:00 Early Days & Biker Culture Origins 06:00 Joining the Hell's Angels 10:00 Brotherhood, Bikes, and Old School Rules 14:00 Outlaw Clubs: From Bonding to Violence 21:00 Criminal Elements & Club Evolution 26:00 Club Wars, Prison, and Peace Efforts 33:00 Bombings, Feds, and Surviving the System 38:00 Government Tactics and Lawfare 45:00 Murder Conspiracy Case and Beating the Feds 55:00 Life After the Big Trial 01:03:00 Entrepreneurship, Fame, and More Heat 01:09:00 Running Ventura & The Power of Reputation 01:13:00 Dealing with Informants and Police 01:19:00 Courtroom Battles, Sons of Anarchy, and Pop Culture 01:29:00 Club Exit, Reflections & Writing the Story 01:34:00 Modern Times, Legacy & Final Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything. So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. So you're in the club 40 years as a biker. 30 practically is the president of the L.A. Ventura chapter, the hell's angels. Hung out with movie stars.

You beat two federal cases, a murder conspiracy and arson. Investigated by every agency known to man at one time or another. You see somebody from another area. Who is that guy? What patches he flying? You got your shit on you? Yeah, yeah, I'm packing, man. I never went to war as a Marine that I did right here in Southern California.

I went to prison in 1986, beat the case, which doesn't happen very often. I am feeling bulletproof, man. I just beat the government. You know, nobody beats the government. They wouldn't even let me back in the prison because the inmates were going crazy, because it came out on the news. Hell's Angel found not guilty. Prove the government framed him.

George Christie is one of the founding fathers of the Hells Angels, the most infamous 1% Outlaw Biker Club in history. He's written a tell-all book about his life as club president, from the bloody wars with the Mongols to the firebombings and mass graves of his enemies to beating not one but two federal murder conspiracy cases. This man is a true underworld legend. Go get his new book, Crossing the Rubicon, and of course check him out on YouTube. He's all over the internet.

One of the last American outlaws, my friend George Christie, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Today, but back then, if you came into the bar and you wanted to sit in your seat, they had to relinquish the seat to you because it had your name. Oh, no way. Yeah, it was kind of a... That's pretty awesome. Underground type thing.

Dick's last resort was named after Richard Chase, who was the director of Hells Angels Forever. Wow. And he also opened up a restaurant called The Chase. lounge. And then he had interest in Tommy Alsop's Heads Up Saloon. And Tommy Alsop is the guy that flipped the coin with Buddy Holly. Oh, really? So I got to go, you know, I would come into town. I would hang out with Tommy Alsop, you know, and he's telling all these old cowboy stories

and hanging out with Waylon. Well, I knew Waylon, but he was, you know, hanging out with Whalen and talked about when flip the coin and I have a coin at home. It says Tommy Alsop's heads up saloon and it, you know, I was supposed to represent the coin flip and destiny and the hell's angels in my mind really represent the greatest generation to be alive in America. You know, I feel like that era is past now, but it was, you know, you're 80 years old. So you got the best of both worlds.

You were too young for World War II. in Korea, too old for Vietnam, perhaps. No, I was, I was a, oh, were you in Vietnam? I didn't go in country. I was the United States Marine. Oh, okay. And I was O311 Rifleman. I did two things in 1966.

I left for a Marine Corps boot camp and I bought a Harley Davidson motorcycle. Oh. And the Harley Davidson motorcycle, I'm starting to drift on the price. I was either $200 or $250 for the whole motorcycle. And, you know, now you can't even get a bike service for a couple of hundred bucks. You can't even get a steak dinner for $250. No, tell us about it. We've been traveling a lot.

And so, yeah, you know, a very unique time. You know, the European veterans and the Pacific Theater veterans came back from World War II, probably suffering from PTSD, you know, and they start forming these little. bike clubs you know these guys are probably buying motorcycles at that time maybe for 50 bucks 60 bucks and easy transportation these guys come home they're all displaced you know their girlfriends are probably married the you know insurance salesmen down the street right are their wives have runoff with somebody and so they start forming these the booze fighters the pissed off bastards of the 13 rebels you know galloping goose and you've got these little gruel

and they go up, they start riding around together, hanging out, drinking and whatnot, and they go up to the little town of Hollister. And by coincidence, or maybe by design, maybe, you know, the San Francisco Chronicle heard that these groups started frequent in these little American Motorcycle Association events. They send a crew there. They send a reporter and a camera crew to Hollister and capture this new phenomena. These outlaw bike clubs, these veterans that have come home and are now forming these clubs. It goes out over the AP and they get statements from the guys and, you know, the guys are saying cavalier stuff and posing with beer bottles and whatnot.

Right. And they go to the American Motorcycle Association and say, how do you explain these people? Who are these people ruining it for everybody? And the American Motorcycle Association says, well, it's. only one percent that ruin it for the wholesome riders. And that's, you know, they become the one percent, you know. The pissed off bastards split and they become the Hells Angels in 1948. There's a little, like, controversy about when it actually started.

I mean, who kept records back then? Right. You know, it was you jumped on your motorcycle. You showed up on Friday night at the meeting and nobody had the balls to run you off. You know, you got voted in. Right. Right. And so you were really the second generation of Hells Angels, right? Yes. That's how I see it. You joined up what year?

Well, officially in 1976, but I started coming around. In 1966, came back from boot camp, I started hanging out with a group of gentlemen called the Question Marks who are endorsed by the Hells Angels. They are part of the 1% of have some bad luck. Their leader gets staff. in a bar room fight, partially paralyzed, but kind of down and out, looking for direction, looking for perhaps a new leader, I start hanging out with the St.

Saints slaves, and the St. slaves dragged me up to Kernn River, and I run into Old Man John, leader of the Los Angeles, Hells Angels, and he sees something in me. And he invites me to the clubhouse,

and next thing you know, I'm one of the guys. Yeah. It was quite a story. I mean, you know, you said, something a few minutes ago that that era has passed. And I'm sure the modern day club members don't want to hear me say it, but I think it was different back then. It really was. There was

something about the brotherhood. You had to know how to build a motorcycle from the ground up. You couldn't go into the Harley Shop and buy a motorcycle that was custom. You couldn't even go in there and buy oil. They didn't want your business. Right. Wow. somebody shows up at a party and they know that you haven't built that bike, you're going to get left off the block. You know, and the styles of bikes, like San Diego had a style, San Fernando Valley, Purdue, Ventura, you know, Frisco, Bay Area. Each area had a distinct style to the motorcycles.

They're almost like a accent, like a geographical accent. Somebody rides in, you go, that guy's from the Bay Area. And, you know, one of the big things that I really missed was back in those days, I remember Keith Ball, his road name or club name, Monica, called him Bandit. And we used to hang out. He was Los Angeles Hells Angels ultimately. But before him and I became Hells Angels together, I remember we ran into a club one night in Ventura. We were up there goofing around in Ventura.

It was like 3 o'clock in the morning. and we ran a five or six guys. They were called the Molox. And these guys all had, like, their really long hair, and then they had half of their heads shaved. And whatever style motorcycle they had, like a knucklehead, or they had the motor tattooed on their heads, and then the engine numbers.

I mean, you know. That rules. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. And I was like, I looked at Keith and I go, who are these cats, man? He goes, I don't know, the Mowlocks, man. You know, and so we we hung out. But this is an interesting thing.

We hung out with them. Later, I kept running into them. I was running with the question marks. And we ran into them one night. And they weren't part of the 1%. And I was with some 1%ers. We wound up fighting. And we got in a fight.

We fought on the beach on and off all night. And Dave, I'm fighting this guy. David Ortega is fighting him. And he's asked the guy to stop. He was stopped. Let me, wait, I want to watch George, man. How do you fight all night in the sand? Well, you fight and you stop, you have a beer.

You start talking again, and then you get another argument. And I used to look at David and just go, oh, man, come on, you know. We've been fighting these guys for. Oh, it sounds exhausting. Yeah, it is exhausting. And. But these were the good old fashioned days before, you know, somebody might have had a knife on them. They told us we had to leave.

We wouldn't leave. That's what the fight was about. They go, you guys, this isn't a one-percenter party. This is our party. And you guys aren't welcome. And David Orsay, he says, well, I'm staying. I'm not leaving. You know, I wasn't a one-percenter officially, but I ran with those guys.

And, you know, David asked me, is, are you staying? What am I going to tell him? No. You know, I can never face him again. You know, I find so fascinating about 1% culture, the Hells Angels, for example, like, you know, drug traffickers. The goal is to get to the money. And everything you do is in service of that. Everything, you know, from collaborating on smuggling routes to, you know,

conspiracy with retailers and, you know, sometimes murders. It's all in service of the dollar. But the angels, it's like, it seems like the whole purpose of you guys, you know, going on caravans, 100 man rides at a time. It's just about that. The end is to just be. the end is the journey. It's the journey.

Which is a beautiful metaphor for life. Right. Right? No, no, you're not missing it at all. And see, that's the point I was trying to make. It's like nowadays you see somebody from another area. Who is that guy? What patches he flying?

You know, you got your shit on you? Yeah, yeah, I'm packing, man. And back then it was, I said, the key, I go with these guys. I don't know. Let's go find out who they are. Right. And we wind up hanging out. out with them.

Right. And we got in a fight with them, Moawks that night. And then two weeks later, we were all buddy buddies sitting around the shop talking. You know, but it evolved, but it did evolve from this kind of like 1950 style,

no big outsiders. We're just fighting each other to, you know, by the late 70s, you personally are involved in, you know, wars in L.A. where dudes are getting grenades thrown at them.

And, you know, people are getting shot to death. They're changing a tire and getting blown in half because there's a bomb inside the tire. You know, the valve stem is actually a trigger mechanism for the dynamite, you know. And, you know, they take the valve stem out. The guy thinks he's changing a tire. And the next thing you know, he doesn't know. He doesn't exist anymore.

Some Fallujah shit. It changes the whole dynamics. What happens in Southern California, I have a stage play I wrote and I, you know, I perform. I went around the country and did it. And in the stage play, I talk about going in the Marines. And I said, I never went to war as a Marine, but I did right here in Southern California. And that's a fact. I mean, I've had people like veterans, well, you never in a war.

Well, you know what, man, I was in a war. And it's a different kind of war than you're doing because not only am I looking out for my own ass, I'm waiting for the indictment to come to go to prison. You know what I'm saying. Do you feel like, do you regret how it lost control? where you went from like this freedom outlaw, but that just meant like we party together and there's solidarity and it's,

we're almost like weekend warriors, guys that don't want jobs who just love to do something together as men. Do you regret that it attracted all of these different criminal elements that turned it into kind of a criminal organization? Well, it's not a criminal organization, it's an organization with criminals in it. You know, and people get the, you know,

people confuse the, outlaw with a criminal. You know, people that come around to Hells Angels back then, they were strictly outlaw type people. They weren't criminals. They weren't working criminals. I'm not so sure anymore.

You know, I think there's a lot of clubs that people say, this is an opportunity to make some moves. I'm going to have some heavy protection. And although the clubs reprimends you and they don't want you dragging them, you know, into your personal drug business or whatever it may be, extortion, and they brush against each other. Right.

Well, that's what I was challenging on last time we talked. It's not a criminal organization, but 40% of its members are actively involved in crime. Well, it makes a transition, and you have to ask. You have to, I got to, I ran into an ex Vago and really enjoyed, like, talking to him. He's out. who I was right away.

Long respect from him. I, you know, and I, we taught, that's what we talked about. That the clubs are making this transition. They're attracting a criminal. Where in the past, what was being attracted to these organizations, they were motorcycle riders, guys looking for brotherhood. And I was looking for some action, you know. When I say action, I mean, you know, they wanted to go riding crazy,

go maybe getting a fight, fist fight at the bar. But, you know, they're not going home, packing a motorcycle tire with dynamite and then taking it to a rival shop and saying, change the tire for me. It just, and I was part of that. And, you know, can you explain, can you just refresh my memory?

Who was that beef with? Now, beef was that particular beef was with the Mongols. Okay. And that was like the famous Hells Angels Mongols War. Yeah. It's still going today. I mean, it's still fighting. You know, I hear, look,

I went to prison in 1986. You know, we were talking earlier. Beat the case, which doesn't happen very often. You know, 98% conviction rate. First thing I say to Guy Castile alone, who's there for killing two Mongols, red beard and jingles. And back then, he got four years for killing those guys.

Barry Tarlow got him, you know, who Barry Tarlow was, top-notch attorney, he was my attorney as well. he gets him four years, you know. So I see Guy, I go into the prison, Terminal Island, and I'm actually in the receiving area, and then they open the door, and you walk into a, like a Sally port. There's nothing in there.

They shut my door, and then on the other side of that door is the prison. And so that, you know, they have the automatic doors. The door slides open, and the room is full. full of prisoners and guys standing out in front of them and they all start clapping as I walked through and then they stop and it was almost like it was orchestrated and remember I carried the

torts in the Olympics yeah and then guy says to me well it looks like that torch finally went out for you and everybody starts laughing and then you know he introduces me to all the people and everybody's having a good time slapping each other on the back and then I take guy aside and I go, who do I need to worry about in there? He goes, nobody. I go, what do mean? Nobody? Is there Mongols in here?

He goes, yeah. Banditos, yeah. Outlaws, yeah. And I said, well, what's the deal? He goes, we don't fight in prison, George. I go, what do you mean? He goes, well, we have like an amnesty. And not those exact words he used, but don't worry about it.

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B-21. In prison. Yeah. Okay. They bury the hatchet. So when I came home, when I beat the case, I come home in 1986. That was my quest. 87, I actually came home.

I want to end the wars, the bike wars. And that's what I do. And I pursue it for 10 years. But this has become an organization that runs off primal instincts. and, you know. There's a lot of testosterone. Yeah. And you go to somebody and go, hey, what do you think about not fighting these guys?

Well, right away they're looking at you. Are you weak? Yeah. Are you a suspect? It's not a popular position. Taco Bowman, who later died in prison from cancer, died in 2019. He was doing life. When him and I were negotiating for peace, we got an amnesty on shooting each other.

as far as the clubs go, and then it unraveled, and he put a murder contract on me. He was very involved. People can look it up at United States of America versus Harry Taco Bowman. But he called me one time, and he goes, I'm getting a lot of pressure from the young guys, man.

They think I look weak. And he says, what about you? And I go, everybody thinks I'm weak. And I said, to be a proponent of peace, you have to be strong. And, you know, it just ultimately unraveled. Well, what do you think now? I've heard different things from different people.

I've heard that the Hells Angels are really trying to brand themselves as like fully legit. This is. Well, if they're not, they should. And. Well, what do you hear? I hear the same thing. But, you know, and then you pick up a text from one of these alerts you get. Yeah.

You sign up for. and, you know, 50 pounds of hash confiscated in Spain, you know. Right. So, you know, you read that stuff and you have to take it with a grain of salt. And you have to come to terms with the fact that you're not in the club anymore. Yeah. It's not your problem. Sure.

Well, I mean. And I imagine so. And those, the hit on that pagan motorcycle president. Yeah, they killed a pagan. leader, I think. He was a pagan leader in the Bronx, and it took him a couple years, but they got the shooters who took them out in broad daylight on camera. It was like watching Sons of Anarchy. It was crazy. I actually watched it thinking, I would see if I could recognize anybody's walk or anything. But I'm being a smart ass. I did, I did look at it several

times. Yeah. It's captivating. You look at it and you're going, well, this is, these guys look like they know what they're doing. Well, according to Sose the Ghost, who we had on. So is a friend of mine, a good guy. And from the Bronx, and so really speaks with authority on what's going on over there. He said that those were Hell's Angels that were that had contracted with the shooters because the pagans were introducing bloods, like blood gang members into their ranks. So I don't know what you think about that.

Are there gang members? Does that happen in California? Do Cripsom Bloods now become one percenters? Not to my knowledge, but, you know, I have friends that are black and that, you know, they're in street gangs. I've had some crips at my house the night they killed Tuki. Wow. Is that right? And they had come up, and we were hoping that Schwarzenegger at the last moment was going to give us stay.

And we didn't go to the clubhouse. who came to my house, and it was a real sad evening. You know, I had considered petitioning Schwarzenegger through Mickey Rourke, who I was very close with at the time. And I thought I would hate to be responsible for damaging his chances if Schwarzenegger was entertaining the thought of, you know, signing a clemency order. Yeah, I think nowadays he would have been given clemency.

This was still back when they were trying, 2002. 2002, was you sure? Yeah. I thought it was, okay, maybe. No, it was 2000. It was when, because it was when Schwarzenegger was governor. Right. And so that would have been in the early 2000s.

See, when you get 80, you lose track that time. Totally. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Oh, God damn it. Give it a sec. Nothing, nothing pisses me off more. Except it's, it was sometimes an Amazon truck will pull up right.

outside the door. The barking bird. Yeah, and they'll be delivering packages and then just keep their radio, just turn full blast. I don't even know if that's going to pick it. It probably, the mics probably won't even pick it up, but it's just annoying.

We have these little cheesy mics in. Yeah. And it pushed. No, I know. Yeah, I just, I thought it might affect our flow.

But what are you going to do? You know, having been shot at several times and bombed, nothing affects my flow. When did you get bombed? The entire clubhouse was bombed twice. Once, when we first arrived in town, it was probably some sort of welcoming committee. And then in 1984, after I carried the torch in Olympics, I actually accused the ATF of throwing the grenade in the clubhouse.

Because the spoon was laying in the entrance of the Ventura Clubhouse. One of the Ventura cops I knew, I asked him to get, could he please get the numbers off the spoon? He got the numbers, gave him to our private investigator, who was an ex-FBI agent. He traced the numbers of the spoon to an armory in Ohio where the ATF squad that later raided the clubhouse because of the bombing. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's pretty, it's all in my new book. That is wild. I named some names of law enforcement.

Why do they want you dead? Well, I don't think they want her to spend it. I actually think they thought the front room in the clubhouse was empty. We had a rule that if you open the front door of the clubhouse or the side door of the clubhouse, you had to stand by it like to smoke a cigarette or do whatever, drink a beer or whatever, to make sure nobody approached the clubhouse. David Ortega had opened the door, walked to the back of the room, room and I think they drove by, they saw that there was nobody in the main clubhouse.

And somebody threw a hand grenade in her. How does that make you, you know, when we talk, there's so much going on with, you know, the Epstein files and the CIA, you know, blowing shit up in Venezuela and, you know, many, many, what people will call conspiracy theories. Does that surprise you, you know, having been a target of violence by the federal government yourself? Not at all. And see what happens is now I have people go, wow, that really did happen to you, didn't it? Because now there's other people than outlaws or criminals.

If that's what you want to designate them as that are experiencing these things. And these things are coming out. What do they call them now? Whistleblowers. you know. Yeah. Somebody says, hey, this took place,

that took place. Right. I mean, and it's brazen, you know, you've got, uh, it's,

and who do you go to? You're supposed to be, uh, a law abiding outlaw. Who do you go to when you have the serial number of a grenade that gets traced back to the ATF? Do you take it's, the government?

Right. Yeah. Right. And I took it to several attorneys. But you should be able to like, prosecute, like pursue in a, in a,

in a, law-abiding society, you should be able to force them to make an arrest. Well, first you would have to do is what we did is we sued the government. I took my information to some lawyers. And what we were going to do is we were going to sue them for losing control of an explosive device and endangering American citizen, David Ortega. And what we were hoping for is, you know, David would receive. receive money from the government for the rest of his life.

We were going to make it real easy for him, you know. But we wanted the conviction, so to speak. Did you ever get any money out of them? No, because David, unbeknownst to me at the time, was probably suffering from PTSD. He just didn't want nothing to do with it. You know, didn't show up for court dates. He was picking shrapnel out of his body

for years. And he had a bottle around his neck and he would pop the top off and every time a piece of shrapnel surfaced he'd pull it out and he had a bottle full of shrapnel

you know, and he wore it as like a bracelet necklace thing. Wow. And you were also like the target of they call it like lawfare or cop fare

like you, they really, the government went at you spending so many resources to over-prosecute you. And then they really didn't get anything. By every agency known to man at one time or another. And, you know, the interesting thing for me is, thank God they didn't work together.

Because what would happen is they wouldn't share information. They were holding stuff back from each other. they had a task force task force formed in 2001 they were coming after me that's when my boy and some of the guys were getting all those Vicodin I don't know if you remember that case it was like a

million Vicodin flooded Ventura and that was a Hells Angel that was bringing it in? No it was a friend of my sons I went to high school with he became a pharmacist in the Air Force

and him and my son came up with this idea that if they brought all these Vicodin into town, they could make a lot of money, which they did. Sure. Yeah. A million Vicodin, figured out, you know. A million Vicodin that they like stole from the- From the United States Air Force.

Holy shit. So that's, you sell a Vicodin for, it can make over a million bucks. Yeah. So they tried to tie you in. They tried to tie me into that. And I'll tell you how they got busted is they didn't. take the labels off the bottles. Come on, guys.

Yeah. And I told my boy, I said, you know, if you were to listen to Pops. But, you know, there. So did he do time for that? Yeah, he did. He did a year. But the case, they were, all agencies were fighting. And the grand jury was structured in the wrong manner. And there was all these extenuating circumstances of the case.

collapsed under its own weight. And they said, we accept the year. They wanted me. They didn't care about him. My ex-wife, who they threatened to, you know,

deport, she was a Canadian citizen. It was all about George Christie. You know, I was the target. Why did they want you so badly? I mean, you've been asked that a million times.

I think it's a little bit of... They look really bad. during the Olympics. You know, the only reason we got involved in the Olympics is because that ATF group, they were sent to Lake Casitas. They were going to protect all the athletes, you know, participating in the water sports. The Ventura Clubhouse is like 10, 15 minutes from the lake.

And what they did is they said we were going to supply weapons to terrorists. They went to community city fathers and businesses. men and said, you know, if you hear of anything, let us keep your ear open. Well, they immediately called me, you know. I said, hey, these feds are down here saying you're going to give weapons to terrorists. So I come up with this idea along with another member, Tiny, and we present it to the club, and it got a lot of resistance. I said, look, we've got to get in front of this. We've got to control the narrative. What we need to do is not only support the Olympics, we're going to participate in them and we'll participate by carrying the Olympic torch and that's what we did and it just burned some of the guys just it was just too much for him so do you think there reminds me a lot of the reason that a lot of like cults for lack of a better term we're in Texas so you know you look 45 minutes up the road an hour up the road is Waco Waco and you know David Koresh and the branchedivians while weirdos and you know he was sleep

with everybody's wife and he was, you know, professing this religious apocalyptic, apocalypse. There, many times they're not doing anything illegal. Right. And I, I simply think it comes down to we just don't like people that don't go along. And so I feel like, I feel like the one percenters kind of get targeted for that reason. It's, it's, we just don't like you. And we'll fit in. Yes, we don't fit.

You don't fit in. And yeah, you do, you live on the margins. And so we know these guys have guns. So there's our, that's where we'll start. Are you familiar with the shootout in Waco with the bike clubs? No. And I can't remember what year was, I think 2015. Banditos and I can't remember the other club's name.

Go to this coalition meeting where, you know, You know, all the clubs come and they talk and whatnot. There's a shoot out there. Seven or eight people are killed. I get invited to go on CNN, you know, comment on it. And on CNN, I predicted that when the ballistics came back, the shooters were not going to be banditos. The shooters were not going to be the other club guys.

The shooters are going to be law enforcement. And I think six of the people were, They were from police officers, sniper rifles. Wow. They shot them. It's a big, big case. And they arrested 150 people. So they were setting up, raiding them.

They were going to raid the meeting, and they had snipers already. They had everybody in place. And, you know, I don't know all the circumstances. It's been several years. I remember I spoke to Jeff Pike about it. He was the international leader of the banditas at the time. The, I got a phone

you know, you get put in situation. I got a phone call from the feds. They had a message for Jeff Pike and I passed the message to Jeff Pike

and like when the feds called me, I go, you guys are kind of put me in a compromising position here. I'm going to call leader of the banditos and I've got a message

from the feds for you. And I called Jeff, Jeff and I knew each other well. He was very gracious. I said, do you want to hear the message? And he goes, sure. And the message.

message was they didn't want a problem. They didn't want to start a back and forth situation. And Jeff Pett, Jeff Pike said, of course, we don't. Yeah. So the only problem was created by the government. Well, that's my position. It was that position then. And, you know, it's my position.

Now, you know, what's, what's tough is you got these people, are they intentionally going there with the thought of killing of how long club members. I don't think so. You know, I don't think, uh, it's like this last guy that got killed by ICE in, a couple of weeks.

Yeah, Minnesota. Yeah, Minnesota. Last week. Look, these police officers are just people. They're not machines. Uh, some of them are trained very well. Some of them aren't geared for it, you know, And I think that they find a gun on that gentleman, which is perfectly legal.

I think it was a legal weapon and whatnot. But people react. And that's what happened in Wakely. I think the people fight started between the clubs and pushing and shoving. Next thing you know, you've got, you know, people on the ground shot. Yeah. It just snowballs. But it definitely speaks to how the government is.

just made up of people. And in your case, in a small town like Ventura, you have a lot of small town pettiness. And that includes the feds. And they waste a lot of taxpayer money chasing you. Unless you're actually like a big criminal and you're just not telling me. I've asked you every way, which way from Sunday, if you've got any. You know, I'm going to put you up there with some of those U.S.

prosecutors a question. me when I took the stand in my own defense. But look, the things I did, I learned real fast, and I'm not going to get into it. This isn't a confessional for me, despite what you'd like, you know. But look, you can make just as much money being an entrepreneur. And, I mean, I guess we can talk about your past as well. Sure. But you're doing better now, aren't you?

Yeah. Yeah. It feels better at night. It feels a lot better. Feels a lot better. Yeah. You don't, one of those footsteps. Right.

I'll tell you, my last experience with an FBI raid, 2011, my dog, and if you're a dog guy, your dogs have different types of barks. And the dog barks. And I go, that's a serious bark. Throw on my house coat. I'm getting ready to go down this. stairs and then I heard the neighbor. Wow, are you guys really FBI? They got all their jackets on their SWAT gear. And I, you know, I knew they were there. And the phone rings and I go, I'm going to

open the front gate. I go, don't kick the gate in. Don't kick my doors in. I'm not armed. I don't have any weapons in here. And they were pretty cool. You know, they were, you know, what were they arrested? What were they arrest me? They said, I'd ordered the bombings of, uh, two tattoo shops. Right. So you remember, you recall that case? Yeah.

So, you know, here's an interesting thing. You know, we're talking about, does crime pay? Perhaps for a envelope of time. And then it catches up to you somehow. But here you've got a crime that took place,

and I never had anything to do with those tattoo bombings. If you want to talk about the tattoo business after I explain myself, I'll be more than happy to talk about it because we did have a hold on the tattoo business in Ventura. that might be foolish to sit here and try. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start.

Sell your workout gear on Deepop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Deepop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Deepop. where taste recognizes taste. Say we didn't.

Yeah, you had the most thriving tattoo shop for years of Ventura. It was 30 years. Yeah. But crime happens in 2007. Now, the guys came to me, and they said, we're going to get rid of these guys. And I said, you're not even in the tattoo business. I go, why do you even care?

I go, the tattoo business is completely different now. I said, it's mainstream, man. Everybody's getting tattoos. I go, you're not going to be able to control the tattoo business. They decide to ignore my pleas to them. The firebombed the place, it's 2007. 2011, they finally indict me just before statute runs out or whatever. I go to prison in 2013.

I fight my daughter and I fight this case along with another lawyer. Are they trying to get you to tell who did it? No, they want me to flip, you know? Of course. Yeah. You know, they're telling me there's a murder contract on me, and they have the tape recorder. You know, they got me handcuffed, and they're questioning me. And they, you know, there's a murder contract on you.

It's right on this tape right here. I said, well, push play. Oh, no, you got to, you know, you got to come to work for us if you want to hear. And I go, I'll take my chances on the street. And so now my daughter chips away, chips away, chips away, knocks off the mandatory minimums of life. I wind up getting sentenced to one year. I go to jail. I come back in the 2014.

I'm on, it's not parole anymore. It's now called federal probation. I go on probation, and it's 2018 when I get off probation. Right. And that's 11-year span, man. And you know what it's like to be, do you know what it's like to be investigated? Did you know they were investigating it?

Not to that extent. Not going close. You know these guys who are watching you. They're following you. They're taking pictures. I'm going into my favorite restaurant. And the owner of the restaurant's handing me a note. The whole back of the restaurant's wired.

They're listening to everything you're saying. Wow. I mean, that's some heavy surveillance. Think about that over a firebombing that didn't hurt anyone. Well, this is, but they don't think it's just a firebombing. They think that I'm, you know, the biggest distributor of cocaine on the West Coast. and they think I've also have my hands in unions. I get subpoenaed to the Teamsters Union.

Why do you have a lawyer that Teamsters use? You know, they come up with this stuff. I mean, guys lay awake at night thinking of these things. Right. Do you think it's because you never did any real time that somebody at the ATF or the FBI? If it doesn't come the guy that got away? Right, right. Well, okay, this guy's been.

he's been doing this for 40 years. We don't have him. Now's our shot. Yeah. I think this was the final chance. You know, I don't know why they would, you know, look at me now. Did you feel like persecuted? I know you're not that kind of guy.

You're an easygoing guy, but were you like, if you were actually innocent, which you were. Let me tell you what I tell the cops. people may call bullshit, but my wife sitting right there and she was with me. Got stopped by one of the judges. And he asked me, he said, hey, George, do you have any hard feelings? Everything cool? And everything's fine. You know, when I see these judges, these prosecutors, whether state or federal,

and these law enforcement officers, they were supposed to come after me. that's the game. That was their job. And I don't take it personal. And when I do start taking it personal, I slap myself and go, knock it off, George. You know what? You were rubbing, you're thumbing your nose at all these guys for years. And I would say provocative things.

How so? Like just, you know. In person? Well, here. The clubhouse gets bombed. So I call like a, I'm going to be out at the front of the clubhouse. at 7 a.m. this morning making a statement about the bombing. Of course, the media is going to show up.

Mr. Christie, who do you think did this? I said, I have a long list, and the ATF is right on top. Wow. You know, so they don't like that shit. I actually had a Ventura police officer, a sergeant, later became a lieutenant. I'm not going to drop his name because he got accused of being on my payroll, which never happened with any of those Ventura cops.

Does you guys have any cops, sheriffs at any time? Not really. And let me tell you, you want to know why George Christie got along with so many cops because they never asked me to compromise myself. And you know what? The reason they liked me is because I never asked them to compromise themselves. I figured, you know what, if you guys can't do it on your own, don't ask me to help you. And it's the same thing with me.

I used to put out false information all the time. And I thought somebody was a rat. I put something out false. And when it circled back to me, that guy's no good oh yeah counterintelligence I was a Marine man

I worked for the Department of Defense you know I took all that stuff seriously and training you know me and Sunny Barger got in a big argument one time sunny Barger I said you know I like to apply my military

background and my Department of Defense stuff to the outlaw bike culture and you know sunny goes that fuck that he goes I burn every bridge I cross and I said as a United States Marine I said I like to leave one bridge for supplies and one bridge for a tactical retreat if necessary.

And, you know, so I applied all that stuff, you know. And so, like, if you thought somebody was a rat, you would. False information. And see if you bit on that. Yeah, and see if it came back and see if perhaps somebody came under investigation at a coincidental time. Yeah. You know, and then you have to, I mean, do you call them a rat?

No, but you go, I'm not telling that guy anything. So you would let, you would know that a guy was a rat and still let him be around the club? Well, how are you going to prove he's a rat? I guess by that circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence. Oh, George, you're overthinking everything. You know, I've been accused of that perhaps my whole life. Right.

But maybe that's why I'm still here. Well, I think the hell's angels just put up with that. You guys never, I mean, that's proof right there about probably why there are so many informants in the Hell's Angels because you guys know that they're there and you don't really do anything. We think they're there. But, well, I don't always do it. Several guys have disappeared. You want to talk about the 70s and the 80s.

But, you know, I don't want to go there. I'm sure you'd like to go there. What year did you go straight? Straight? No. I've never been straight. Well, what, like obviously. Are you talking about my sex life?

I don't know. Those hell's angels parties back then. Those must have been liberating. Like, what year did you, and I'm not talking about, I don't want any details, but what year did you just go from... When I went to prison in that mid-80s,

I realized the fans do whatever they want to do to get you, man. For sure. They don't give a shit. They go outside the guidelines. They create crimes, whatever it may be, you know. A lot of times literally create crimes. They do.

Yeah. And when I came home, I came home in the midst of a big FBI investigation. And I have like three chapters in my book. It's like informant number one. And then the next chapter is informant number two. And informant number three. And what I'm trying to let the audience, the reader, in on is that this is how bad these guys wanted me. You know, they had this guy.

Then they had this guy. Then they had this guy. I come home. It's now 1987. I'm feeling bulletproof, man. I just beat the government. Nobody beats the government. Very, very seldom. You know what it's like. What's it like when somebody takes it to the box and comes back with

the not guilty? What's the prison like or the facility like where you're at? Now, I was in term alive on prison because they didn't have the You weren't sitting in an MDC waiting. I was in the prison. Yeah. Yeah. And it's electric. They weren't even let me back in the prison because the inmates were going crazy. Yeah. Because it came out on the news. Hell's Angel found not guilty. Prove the government framed it. Right. No. And, uh, uh, it must have felt like

when Jackie Robinson got integrated. Yeah. You know, how black folks were feeling. That's, you know, jump on our bikes, man. We, you know, they brought my bike down in a truck. We jump on our bikes. Yeah. We storm back, uh, you know. And look, here's the thing. You got these devastating tapes. And they were devastating. How so? You know we're going to kill this guy, George. Yeah, fuck him. I don't care. You know, they're devastating.

How do you explain that to a jury? We were fucking around. Yeah. So this is what we do. I've got my tapes. I love this. My tapes being played at the Grateful Dead Front Street Studio. And everybody's listening to the tapes.

My friend Garcia probably is there listening to them. but they're playing the tapes there. And everybody's going, he's dead in the water. He can't win this. Alan Kaplan, famous criminal attorney. You've ever heard of the Pizza Connection in that case? You've heard of the Star of Dust Skimming case? Yeah.

That's him. That's how I got tied in to subpoena to the Teamsters grand jury because he was my lawyer. Okay, so hang on. So who was trying to set you up was? The FBI. Right. Who in the Hells Angels actually got you to goaded you into agreeing to murder? And was it even a real target? It was not a real target.

It was a former wannabe Hells Angel from the interred that didn't make the cut. And it was a high-ranking member of the Mexican Mafia that I was friends with these guys. And he came to me. And I went to Sunny. I had never met this guy. Poor Slim was his name, Mike Mulhern. I'd never met him. But I was friends with Mike Eisen Acha.

I don't know if you ever heard of that name, the Hatchet. And he was one of the top guys in the Mexican Mafia. Him and I had a relationship. Mike goes to prison for 18 years. The newspapers do this big story. You know, New Revelation. George Christie has connections to the Mexican mafia. Mike Eisen, top Mexican mafia member,

and George Christie are personal friends. I mean, this was in two newspapers, a big spread. So how does that affect me? In law enforcement, it's a real detrimental rumor going around. But on the street, my street creds, man, sky high, you know. George Christie, man, he's tipped up with these guys. I mean, they're real, they're pipe hitters, you know. They're the biggest in-counter.

They're the baddest in California. Yeah, you know all about it. Well, Mike Eisen and I were like good friends. Wow. And he was housed next to Joe Morgan, the top guy up in Pelican Bay. They used to call me, Joe and him went past the phone back and forth. Joe Morgan was A-B. No, he was Mexican-M-Fa.

Oh, he was a white dude. But he was head of the Mexican Mafia. Right, yeah. And like Joe Morgan had his leg blown off. American Me? Yeah, if you watch American Me. Yes. Okay. So who, was it a ranking member of the, he was a, he was a, I'm not going to say, he was a top tier guy because he was in on the ground floor. So he says to me, he comes to me and says, I got to take this guy out, man. He goes to me 10 grand. Unless you want to pay the 10 grand, George, if you pay the 10 grand, I'll call it square.

Well, I'm not paying 10 grand for some guy I don't even like. So. he tells me, Mike says, I know you don't know me. Go talk to Sonny about me. And I go up and I talk to Sunny and Sunny tells me, man, this guy's 100%. You can trust him. I asked a couple of other people about him. Everybody said this guy's straight up, man, straight up. He got up on the stand and the trial admitted to 19 complicity and 19 murders.

I don't know how many he did. I don't remember how many he did himself. So this is a guy's a tough player, but I got off track. So you've got everybody, you got all these lawyers listening to this tape. But hang on, explain the day that he came to see you. And he comes to me. And when he was recording. Well, he, the microphone, he had 19 meetings with him.

The microphone only worked twice. Two conversations. The 80s were fun. Yeah. So, I mean, come on. Yeah. That equipment failed, you know, 17 times. Do you think he turned it off when he thought, oh, I can maybe get 10 grand out of you?

So he turned the wire off. I'll tell you a funny story. Yeah. So as this thing progresses, one of the guys in the, well, he was actually associated at the time. He wants to buy some machine guns. So he sells him some machine guns. and he puts $500 of the money that's paid it, and he steals it from the feds.

He's up on the stand. Is it true that you taught your three-year-old daughter to take the heroin balloon and put it in her mouth and close her mouth when the police came? I mean, this is stuff. I mean, people are going to call bullshit. You know what? I'm calling bullshit on you.

You go down there and get that records. It's a court record. It's all in the minutes of the court record. Stuff was set on the stand by this guy. But anyways, I'm getting off track. I'm getting excited now. No, I want to know. So why did he, can you say this guy's name?

Mike Mulherd. Mike Mulherd. Why was he trying to get you set up? Was he jammed up himself? Well. Or was he just working off time? He's working off time. He got caught with a gun.

He turned into a double agent type guy. Yeah. And there's a great story. follow-up story once I get to the prison. And so they saw you in the headlines. When you got out of prison, they saw it. Let's get this guy. Yeah, they're shut him up.

He's a smart ass. He thinks he's, uh, and now there's a woman sitting in this room. My wife, Beverly Christie, who was a character witness. And what did they do to my future wife? They froze her bank account. they put her shop under surveillance and impacted her business all because she was going to testify about my character. She was a character witness, nothing more.

And that's what they were trying to do. They were trying to prove that I was washing money through Beverly Store. Wow. It's a web, man. So what, so on the tape, You think that was the most damning thing? I do it myself if he was here. That's what you said.

Yeah. They go, look, man, we're going to kill him. You know, he's going to be dead. And I go, I do it myself if he was here. And then Mike goes, thanks. And then at the end of the tape, I go, yeah, thanks for nothing. I was kind of like exasperated with the guy. He'd come back 19 times and talk to me about killing this guy.

I was like, just fucking kill him. But you're like so shrewd and you're a, you're a veteran by now. Like, didn't you find that suspicious that he can't? Why come back to talk to you about a murder of a guy that's not even part of the club? Like,

did that raise suspicion? The feds played this to the hill. I don't know who thought up the scenario, but it was brilliant. This guy got kicked out of the club, kicked away from the club for, dropping the name of the club. He would pretend in drug deals he was a hell's angel.

So when the guy comes and said, this guy says he's a hell's angel, I mean, it fit right in. I was going, okay, that's believable. He owes us 10 grand. Well, he was a player, you know. We're going to kill him. You know, well, he's not a likable guy.

Right. I would have done it myself if he was, no, he's a smart eyes now. But I did say that on the tape. Yeah. And when I took the stand, Well, I want to go back. So I've got all these people listening to the tape.

You got, I heard that, I don't know if it's true, Francis Coppola listened to the tapes because he was friends with the dead. And Mickey Hart from the Grateful Dead was doing music for him. And he just happened to be around there. Everybody says, I'm a done deal. I don't know how we're going to fight this. Barry Tarlow, he's rated one of the top ten lawyers on the country at the top. cost me $580,000, a half a million dollars, you know, I'm a 600,000 dollars.

In 1987. In 1986. Wow. And we gave the retainer. So he listened to the tapes. Yeah, I can beat that case. You're like, well, you take $250, you know, give me some of that back. He goes, I can beat that case.

And I said, well, what do you hear? And he goes, I hear a guy manipulating you. Yeah. And I hear him controlling the conversation. I hear you be an exact. aspirated and wanting to get the guy away. Right. And so you're just conceding to him, if you will.

So the feds were trying to say that like you're giving the order. I gave the order. Yeah. That I gave the order. It was my order. I wanted this guy killed. Right. They didn't make this up.

He proved that it was them that made the thing up. So we come up with this brilliant idea. It's Friday afternoon. It's opening statements. And they leave, they leave the jury. thinking that this gentleman, Tom Cheney, has been murdered at my behest. And so we have a, you know, we're telling, it's opening arguments. Yeah.

U.S. attorneys saying, you know, they're playing the tapes and the jury thinks this guy's dead. Oh, they're lying? No. About a guy? They're not telling everything. I see. You know how they do it in court? I mean, but that is like another level of manipulation.

They're pretending the most. motherfucker's dead. There's been a murder. They want the jury to go home Friday night, and they want them to brew on it all weekend. So Tarlow goes, Your Honor, this is completely unfair. He goes, they are going to leave this courthouse

thinking Tom Cheney was murdered at the order of my client, George Christy. He goes, that is not fair. And the judge hated me. And it's almost like you can't make this shit up. Well, it's like, it's Soviet Union.

like kangaroo court. They're charging you with murder when there has been no murder. So we go in Monday morning. We have a meeting Saturday. And I'm going to take credit for this. I said, hey, Barry, I said, I think the jury thinks that guy's dead. I go, why don't you just go in there and blow the bubble up, man? Just pop the bubble.

He's not dead. He's the government informant himself. And they're working to get my poor client, Mr. Christie. And that's what he does. And it's like it just crashed. The energy in the courtroom went down. Well, that makes them look so. It makes the government look so.

Exactly. So we get in there and they offer me after a couple of days. They said, look, we'll drop the murder life sentence. And Mr. Christie will plead to the conspiracy and we'll suggest nine years to the judge. And Barry Tarlow, it's in the record. He said, Your Honor, today and today only, Mr. Christie is willing to plead guilty to impersonating Smoky the Bear. Because that is a federal crime, isn't it, Your Honor? And the judge was pissed.

The judge, Mike Eisen and Joe Morgan were on my witness list. And the judge refused to bring him into the court. because Judge Trevisian, who was the judge in this case, was the one that sentenced Joe Morgan to prison when he got his late blown off in that robbery. So there was just like there's all this, you know, backstories going on in this thing. But I beat the case.

How long did trial last? Nine weeks. I was on the witness stand six days. And so do they bring in the same? snitch. Oh, yeah. And did they bring in the victim? Victim?

No, he never showed up. So basically you're being accused of ordering a murder to an informant. Right. Against another informant. Yeah. I mean, it's just so. Double informants. Yeah.

And so Barry gets this guy, and this is 1986 standards, Barry gets him to admit, he's gotten maybe like over $300,000 from the feds. And he's living in, you know, he's also living in the witness protection program. Where is Daredevil? I'm right here. Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's Daredevil born again. So what's next? We're to take this city back.

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And he goes, yeah, he says, how much? $50,000. So Tarlow walks over to the jury and he's walking up and down the jury stand. He goes, you heard it. $750. a day heroin habit. Feds know it. He goes, they may even be supplying

him with it, you know. And then he said, so he goes, Mr. Christie's informant has been paid, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, who do you think pays for that? And the jurors are kind of looking at each other. And Barry goes, you, your taxes, you're all paying for that.

Do you think that's right? And so when they find me not guilty, the jury Furman said, why did you find Mr. Christie not guilty when? Because he had no interest in killing this guy until, you know, until the Fed showed up with this story. And we want to send a message to Washington. And you can look that up in the L.A. Times.

I think you can find that story. Look, you know. Is it a crime if you come to me and say, hey, I really want to kill this guy that you kind of know? And I say, yeah, fuck it. I mean, I don't care. like do I, is that a crime? Do I have the responsibility?

I'm not like a psychiatrist? I have to tell somebody. This is what I told the jury. I looked at the jury and I said, look. Oh my God, do you testified? Yeah, I was, I would take the stand in my own behalf. It's funny, Barry tricks me because I didn't want to take the stand. Right.

Because I figured that's what are going to kill me up there, man. And I go, so what do you think, Barry? And we're getting ready to rest. And he goes, he goes, we're in a really good position. He goes, we have one witness left, and that witness can push us through the winter circle, you know. And I go, really? I go, who is it? He goes, it's you.

And I go, oh, wait, man. He goes, you're going to, I can't make you take the stand. He goes, but you're smarter than that U.S. attorney. And he goes, just get up there. And he told me, he goes, break his rhythm. And so when he was questioning me, I started, I just was like playing with him. He finally got so exasperated. He told the judge, he goes,

Mr. Christie is asking and answering his own questions. He was getting him under control. And Judge Trevisian said, Mr. Trillo, get your client under control. And he said, I can't control him. And, you know, I just was like, I was having a ball up there after I got used to it. But, you know, I was very nervous at first. But I looked at the jury. And I said, when's the last time you got mad at your kid?

And you said, man, I would kill him if he was here. And they were kind of nodding their heads. And then I looked at him and I said, look, perhaps I committed a moral sin, a moral crime by not turning this guy in. And then I said, but the guy's a drug dealer. He's a pimp. I go, I didn't even like him. And, you know, it worked. Yeah.

I don't know. So there's really no law. No. Or at least there's no charge that they put on you that was like, you, failed to tell somebody that a fake murder was going to happen. But I've got to tell you something, 1987, let's move up now to 2013. And the jury pool were giving the voir dire. Okay, so one second.

So 87 to 2013, you're never arrested again. You have no cases. No, I got arrested in 2001, 2002. But the case kind of collapsed under its own weight. And you, so you were a baller. You had 600 Gs in 1986 to give to a lawyer. this is your big time narco days, right?

Well, I'm just gonna drag it out of me, aren't you? Look, I have never said this before, but I want to confess, no, I'm... I thought we had a scoop, dude. I thought we had something you hadn't told Vlad. Give you something you haven't told. Well, are you going to let me interview you after this?

Yeah, I would love it. I would love it. I would love it. This is your, but you're a thriving, entrepreneur, legal entrepreneur, is that your tattoo shop money? I have a tattoo shop. I have a concert promotion business. I have a t-shirt business. I have a martial arts school. I have a martial arts store.

I have a bail bonds company. And I'm administrator for my daughter's law office. And she pays me and 1099s me at the end of the year because I'm not a lawyer. But I work as an administrator in her office. And they tried to arrest me for impersonating a lawyer because I called a parole agent. And I said, this is Mr. Christie from Christine Associates attorney. I said, we've got a client there. I want to ask a couple of questions about his terms and conditions.

Well, the guy thinks I'm a lawyer. Calls me back 10 minutes later and goes, are you a lawyer? And I go, no, I'm not a lawyer. the administrator. And he goes, well, you called here earlier said you were a lawyer. I go, no, I did not. I go, don't misrepresent what I said. They were trying to beef me

from you know. Yeah, it's crazy. So you were this really thriving entrepreneur in Ventura and a great concert promotion business and the feds ruined it. You know how they ruined it? They went to all my clients and said, can you suffer

an IRS tax audit? Right. And the only person that told to go fuck themselves with Jerry Garcia. Yeah. God bless him. Yeah, he said, bring it on. Yeah, right. Isn't that amazing?

So they really were convinced you were like laundering money through these businesses. You were complacent. I had done it. And I was, you ever read the book, Angels of Death? No, I've heard of it, though. Angels of Death is a book written by a crime reporter in Canada, Julian Shear. and in the book he identifies me as the Al Capone of Ventura. And that's what the police call me.

And I mean, that's how they perceived me. Yeah. And you would regularly get, not regularly, but it was common for you to have people approach you to try to get you to talk about a murder. Anything as permission for murders? Could you get rid of my partner? You know, I used to say stuff. And, you know, I was joking, but there was some seriousness to it. I said, so you're going to murder your business partner.

And I go, well, I like to get rid of him. And I said, why don't you just go to an arbitrator, split the business up? Yeah. And I go, you go, you go, he goes his way. I go, because otherwise you're going to wind up in prison. I go, you're not a guy that's going to be able to survive in prison. Yeah, because they're not going to get you talking about a murder again after you beat the case. I mean, the best education I ever had was in 1986, in 1987 when I was in federal prison.

You know, not only got a criminal education. I was in there with Rosario Gambino, Michael Franchise, Sam Serentino, the underboss of the mob, in there with a bunch of heavy hitters like the Southern type mafia guys. I mean. Was it hard for you? Because I'm sure you made a lot of, you obviously made. in a ton of criminal connections while you're fighting your case when you're at trouble when they approach you when you come home it must be right it's very hard hey i got a boat's coming

in a long beach you know i got 400 tons of marijuana in a tanker i i'll give it to you just pay me you know right off front it to you right on the arm and that's the way the hell's angels always got their drugs and made it very easy to get yourself set up you got that hell's angel patch on her back, hey, I know that Hell's Angels don't burn people. Right. So I'm going to give this guy, I'm going to give him 40 pounds of cocaine.

Right. That's how that guy, Tom Cheney, the guy that said I wanted killed. He came to me and he said, they're giving me 200 pounds of cocaine. They're giving me on the front. Can I run it through a town here? Yeah.

And my response to him was, who are you? I go, you're nobody. I go, I said, I'm not trying to insult you. I go, if they're giving you 200 pounds of cocaine, I go, they're fucking feds, man. Right. Because you're nobody. Yeah.

They're going to lay 100 keys on you? Yeah. Come on, man. Right. And. So you're like the mayor of Ventura. Like, to come to you, you're like, you really are like the Don Corleone. Like, who asked permission to do crime in the modern era?

Yeah. You know, it's another interesting thing. Were you flattered? Absolutely. Your ego must have been out of control. I loved it. I loved it. I still love it.

we're eating dinner, we go out and have a nice dinner, and the chef invites me into the kitchen. You know, the chef would like you to come back into the kitchen, you know. And I look at her and wink, you know, why wouldn't I go back in the kitchen and shake hands with the chef and tell them how good the meal was? And, you know, I mean, it's, why would the guy come, this isn't my prime, why wouldn't he come to me with a note?

The place has been bugged. I mean, because I had nurtured relationships with people. And I tried to make the community understand that I had their best interest at hearts. When the gangs start shooting at each other, we call a meeting at the clubhouse. You guys are going to, you're not going to shoot at each other in Ventura County. You're not going to jeopardize a community and the citizens. Okay, George, you know. And there, you did use the, even if you were bluffing, you did use the violent reputation of the Hells Angels to make those guys stop.

Absolutely. And was I bluffing? You know, I don't know. You know, we rule that town with an iron fist. Did you have guys within the club who you knew were solid, like wouldn't, weren't rats, weren't ever, wouldn't ever flip? And it was just kind of this unspoken, like, if I need something done, I know who to go to. Okay. I mean, I'll concede that to you.

Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating psychology. Right. You know, be these big groups. where there's subgroups and, you know. One of the... A lot remains unspoken because you know there's so many people that are weak

and probably would go bad. Two of the most trusted guys towards the end of my tenure in the club were associates of my son. They went to high school with my son. And they became really, really solid, solid guys. They... Did they become members? Yes.

Wow. And, you know, we were talking about. about how do you weed out informants like it got so bad that what we did was we would I after the ATF rated us in the 70s I took away everybody's if you was a message on the board you had a number and you know number five then you put the message so it was a message for number five unless you were part of the inner circle you didn't know whose number was who. Wow.

So we used to put, I had suspicion, this guy was an informant, and ultimately he became an informant or he wasn't informed, even when I had suspicions. And the young security officer, he was my security officer,

a solid guy. And I'll tell you a funny story in a minute. But so I said, look, we're going to start this new process because everybody is is suspect nowadays.

We're going to draw, we're going to put numbers in a fish bowl, and in every meeting we're going to pull the number out. And that individual will randomly get searched. So he can't come into the meeting, and he doesn't know if his number is going to get called. Wow. So you search them for wires.

Yeah. Wow. How'd you do it? You pat him down? You have a wand? Take him in the bathroom and strip them. you know, take the clothes off. It's gangster shit, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Play a prison guard for a sec. Well, let's see that Starfish, baby. Make a wink, you know. I hear you cough. Yeah. So, you know, the guy, they figured out, we figured it out, because this is the deal.

Did you ever catch anyone? Well, let me tell you what happened. So we pull his number. Every week, it's the same number. Marty pulls the tag, number 15. And actually, God damn, number 15 again. The third week, number 15 again. Because we knew he was no good, but we just couldn't prove it, man.

So they finally, they pulled him out. He was scared. He thought we were going to kill him, you know. And I asked him to, I wanted him to temporarily transfer to a charter where I had very close ties and very dangerous guys up there. and I said, I'd like you to go up there for just a few months and get away from the heat. It's a lot of heat here. And I think you're under surveillance.

And that's when they pulled him out. He went in the witness protection program. He never testified against me, but he did do something. A real disservice for me. He told me there was a body buried under my house in Oakview. And they leveled the house, dug up the swimming pool. And when I got back from prison in 2015, you know, Beverly and I've been by there.

It's just flat, man. It's all gone. The feds. The feds do it up. They have the right to do that? Well, yeah, and they got control of it through a bad. I don't know what all the circumstances were. I was in prison.

So you lost the house first. Yeah, I see. Yeah, I see. And they thought there was a body there. And the informant that said there was a body there. Wow. So you guys. And these are rumors like one of the cops.

There's cops that are sympathetic to, to, to, lifestyle or whatever. And he told me the story. He thought it was just hilarious. It's hilarious from his point of view because the cops look like a bunch of idiots. They listened to this guy, dug everything up, and there was nothing there. But of course, they keep it on the down low. Did you ever have a cop?

I know you didn't weren't paying the cops, but in small towns, you know the cops. Like you say, a lot of them are cool. Did you ever have a cop come to you and like just tip you off? like, hey, you got heat? I had a district attorney's husband. It was a woman district attorney's husband came to me and saw me walking down the street and said, I just wanted to tell you,

the library, there's a camera in the library, they're recording everything, everybody that comes and goes. And the blue awning out front, there's a microphone in the blue awning. And I said, well, what, why you tell me this stuff? He said because my wife thinks it's all bullshit.

Wow. You know, so you've got people that, yeah. Look, reasonable people. Yeah, I mean. That is insane. You know, these are, I've never, like, I don't think I've said that publicly before.

You know, a lot of these things I kind of keep to myself, Beverly, my wife and I, we share them, we laugh. Because maybe it's the time now. Maybe people now will go, you know, those motherfuckers, 10 years ago, they go, come on, George, man. You're a little bit overly nervous or you're lying. You're a little paranoid, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But, no, now really more people believe it than ever. And that's why people, you know, if you, I don't even think somebody would try a U.S. attorney, unless they were very stupid, would even try to entrap you and put a case on you, like the murder conspiracy in 86, because juries just don't believe the government. People do not believe the feds now. We see it. We're like, these people break their own laws. They don't police themselves.

They lie constantly. And they think we're hillbilly retards. You know? It's part of the reason that I'm serious. It's part of the reason that you saw the Lufthams, the last guy, the last living guy from the Lufthansa heist. I can't remember his name. Bad guy.

Bad mafia guy. Like should be in prison. Has bodies buried under his house? house like you know are you talking about burke jimmy burke or uh no no i'm not talking the i can't remember his name is something real italian real guinea but you're gonna get trouble for i i say it lovingly i you know i love the italian americans since my podcast the hardest working you never still seen from the godfather yeah exactly exactly um so he goes before the jury this this old decrepit man tons of they had the wire taps of him talking about these bodies and the Lufthansa heist.

And this was modern era. This is like four years ago. Okay. And they just can't give it up, huh? Well, no, no. This is, this is them coming back after the Lufthansa he happened in like the 70s. And so you're right. He was the last guy arrested.

And the jury, they said, I'm not guilty. We think we're going to let this guy go. Really? Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. changing of the times is like, you know, the society trusts the government less and less and less and less. Well, you know, I'm an expert witness now. I'm recognized by the courts as an expert witness for the defense. Yeah. And, you know, the prosecutors have been bringing gang cops up for 30 years.

Yeah. And they've had a free reign. You know, they get up there and they talk about how bad we are and the hell's angels did this and the hells angels did this. Now they bring me in there. And I tell it from my side. And I tell you, some of them are good sports. They think it's very interesting, but some of them are really poor losers. I got in a big argument with a cop. I said I was a perjurer.

And, you know, will arrest me. So they bring you up as an expert witness in... I'm just got a call from Oregon. In federal cases? State and federal. And your... Well, I don't think I've done any

federal stuff yet. I've worked on federal cases analyzing police reports, but I don't think I haven't testified in a fit. No, not state cases. Oregon and California. Okay, so tell us about some of these cases. What are you, and who you're an expert because you've been persecuted by the FBI? No, because I never even mentioned that.

I'm an expert because I was a Hells Angel leader for 40 years. And, you know, they tried to discredit me. And the judge told a prosecutor, this is just probably three or four months ago. Come on. Who knows better than him? You know, and let the jury decide if they believe them or not. What's an example of a case you did recently? I did.

A guy had a filthy few patch. You know what that? Filty few is supposed to mean, you kill someone at the behest of the Hells Angels. it is morphed into an urban legend now. And the problem is they said, well, he has a filthy few patch. Well, for me, as an expert, doesn't mean anything. A lot of guys have filthy few patches now. It's just a patch that they wear.

I don't know what they're trying to designate. Each person has their own personal message. But I said, everybody in the club probably, 90% of the guys wear filthy few patches. I go, where are the bodies? Where are all these murdered people that these guys have got this filthy few patch? And I think it was a real good argument. I think the jury believed me.

The lawyer said they had a first degree murder case. We didn't win the case. But I got found guilty. Found guilty, but he got found guilty of a lesser charge because what they were saying, I discredited what they were saying. And they were saying it was premeditated. And my position was, and what I argued in the jury was, it was spontaneous. It was an emotional thing.

And so he's going to be eligible for all, probably 18 years from now. But that's better than having a life of no parole. Of course. And he's a young guy. He's probably in his late 30s, maybe. I don't know. Were they trying to prove that he was doing it? He was hired by another bike club to go kill a gang member.

And I just said that would structurally would never happen. I go, if you don't handle your own shit, you have no status in the outlaw bike world. They would not hire another club member from another club to take care of business in their town. Right. It's not going to happen. And the jury, believe me. Wow. Where did that, where was that case?

San Bernardino, Riverside. Okay. Yeah. Wow. But look. So what was that? I'm interested. I love to hear these cases.

Was it a feud or how did somebody get killed? He, three of the guys in the other club, which I'm not going to mention any club names, I'm very disappointed him. They turned evidence against this guy. He was a guest in another town. They all went in the bathroom to snort Coke. And five people went in there and four people walked out, you know. And the guy wouldn't, he didn't, he said I didn't do it.

but they found him guilty of it. I mean, it was a tough case, man. It was an uphill battle. And, you know, what's really interesting is the lawyer, like he was brilliant. I mean, to chip away at that thing, I mean, you've got two guys saying he's the shooter. And we hired him to come there and take care of business for us. And then I get up there and testify, no, that's not what happened. And that wouldn't happen in the culture.

And, you know, so the jury, the judge, he seemed kind of in awe. He was listening to everything we said, and he seemed like a reasonable man. And the lawyer said, you know, you reach these guys, you know. Yeah. It was, these guys at one time were an enemy of the Hells Angels. So it was an interesting dynamic. Okay. So these were bikers, though.

These were outlaw bikers. Southern California passed outlaw bikers. San Bernardino, I'm going to guess something Chicano. Bongo, O Mongol, you know. You just never give up to you. Nah, just deductive reasoning, you know. Yeah, you're a good investigative reporter. Thanks, thanks.

Wow, that's so fascinating. And it was cool to go in there. And they pay you. The defense, you obviously pays you to show up for your time. Oh, yeah. I went to Oregon, another case up there. two club members fighting it out. One guy kills the other club member.

Where? What part of, you know, I'm from Portland. I don't remember. Down. Salem. No, down. Up. No, wait, it's still down.

Eugene. There's tiny little. Eugene. Was it a small town? Yeah. I think it was. Corvallis? No.

It must have been a small town, right? So that's where you're going to find most of these bikers. Right? It was, it was really cool. like, Beverly and I go in there, take my dog in there. Into the courtroom? Yeah, in the courtroom. Oh, so this must have been a Oregon, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Dog friendly. So they got, they got members up there, too. Yeah, well, this is a different club. Okay. But they have one percenters in order. Yeah, yeah. And they shot it, you know, it was an interesting case.

I mean, they didn't get what they wanted, but the guy's going to come home in six years or seven years. Yes, they didn't die. The other guy went. I see. Yeah, like that's, that seems to be, you know, from the, from the early fights on the beach, the fist fights, to the stabbings, the bombings, now like the shootings, it seems like it's mostly just that, but when biker violence happens, it's mostly just testosterone and fueled by drugs and alcohol and stupidity.

Misunderstandings. Right, right, right. And that sounds ridiculous, but it's true. For sure. Yeah. Do bikers still check in? Like if bikers are going to other towns? Well, they're supposed to.

Some people demanded, I, Sonny Barger and I got a big argument at one time because the banditos were coming to see me. And they didn't check in, you know, Arizona. He was really mad. But it wasn't about the banditos. He was mad. He just wanted to be mad at me.

Right. You know, he liked to get mad at me. Right. Reprimand me if he could because I, you know, I kind of laughed off anything. when he tried to punish me. My last conversation with him was the book, Angels of Death, came out. He called me and said, I saw the book.

He goes, you look pretty bad in it. And I go, me, I go, Jesus Christ, you ought to read your chapter. And he got really mad at me. And he goes, you know what, man? In the book, they call me the Al Capone of Ventura. And there's a picture of me with my arms crossed. And it says, hell's angels. He was the longest serving president, and he got mad because I had upped him one, I guess.

Right. And he said, you need to step down as president, and nobody wants you to be that president anymore. And I said, well, I go, what's it got to do with you? You know, and he goes, well, I'm just telling you what I want. And I said, well, I'm going to tell you something, Ralph. That's what I used to call him. I go, what you want doesn't really matter to me anymore. And he hung up on me.

So I called him back. And I go, hey, Ralph, I go, I think we got dis, I started to say disconnected. And he, I said disconnected. And then he goes, no, I, he was going to say he hung up on me. I hung up on him first. Classic. That was my last conversation. And that was the last conversation.

And he died in prison. No, he died on the street. He died probably. Five years after that. I stayed. I remained in the club like five years. Him and I buttoned heads. You know, you know the story,

Josh Harbor, Ventura Hell's Angel, went to Arizona, Cape Creek, Sunny's Charter got murdered. Wow. From there, Sonny's protege, a guy named Hoover, was murdered in Cape Creek.

And, you know, the police thought it was tit for tat and, you know, launched a bunch of investigations and controversy in the club. And, you know, when I ultimately decided to leave, it took me a couple of years. And people always ask me, well, why did it take so long?

And I didn't know if my ego could take it. Yeah. You know, not being the man. Yeah. I just didn't know if I could take it. And I finally build up the nerve, took my patch off. I folded it up, put it on the table. You know, to explain why I was leaving.

I said, we have become the people who are rebelled against. And I go, I'm gone, man. I want to live my life out as a real outlaw. I don't want all these rules and regulations. And I go, you guys are fighting every major bike club. And I go, ultimately, if you read your history, you guys are going to turn inward. You're going to start killing each other. And if you read my book, it's a metaphor for the United States.

It is. And if you read, read my book at the end of the epilogue in the end, I think it says it all. explains why I didn't go back ultimately. How that book happened was I got a phone call three years, about three and a half years ago, and it was a Hells Angel who wasn't supposed to call me. And he said, if you're going to mend the fence with Ralph, because you need to do it now,

because he's not going to be around much longer. He died the next day. But I got up that night and started thinking about my, span of since 1966, and I started writing, you know. And it took me three years. And like I said, at the end, I wrote it, finished it, woke up in the middle of the night, and I was thinking to myself, that's a cop-out ending, you know. And I ended at a pretty profound ending, I think.

Perhaps other people read it and not think that, but it's pretty profound ending. Well, I mean, it's such a fascinating life. It's really out of a movie. crossing the Rubicon by the one or only George Christie. I cannot wait to read it, man. It's a life that is so classically California, so classically America. You're like a moment in time, you know?

Well, time's running out, me. For sure. For sure. It's getting late, as someone said. Yeah. And, you know, it's feeling, pretty good riding those rigid frames

is catching up to us a little bit you know all that hard riding and whatnot got a couple of hip replacements yeah but you know isn't it interesting that you guys you always become what you hate like you you join the club you became an outlaw to

to not follow rules but then when you're a big enough group and time goes on there's rules incredible yeah and so you're it's funny how these organisms you know, form. I said, hey, I just signed up for this, guys. It's not what I signed up for.

I just wanted to have fun, you know. You know, I've considered starting up to question marks again. That's the first club I was around. But, you know, old man John came to me in early 80s when he decided he was going to quit. And he had turned the club over to me in Los Angeles. I was a leader down in Los Angeles and then moved everything to Ventura. and he goes, I'm hanging it up, George.

And I was brokenhearted, man. I go, no, you can't get out. He goes, it's a young man's game, George, for sure. And he goes, I'm an old man. Have they made a case? Like, what's going on with the Ventura Club now? I don't see them very often. I know they're there.

Have they been raided? Have the feds made any cases? I think they've been raided. There's one of the guys got caught with a gun. And he was a felon. ammunition nothing like what I would consider

like what happened to you no not yet but you know somebody's got to step up and start making a ruckus and I'm sure he'll

get some of his attention and someone will take you know they'll take that as a challenge and that's what happened with me I think a lot of guys you know in law enforcement but you know it's

funny now I run into cops, ex-cops, and you know, they laugh about it, you know? I think some of the older cops, I write in there about a, was a murder investigation. And it took me like 30 years

to realize this, this, he's a homicide cop. And he, wasn't me, he was after, it was just me. You know, it was what I'd become and what I'd become. Right. what I represented in freedom.

People hate freedom. Yeah, they do. I don't want to sound overdramatic, but a lot of people really want to be slaves, unfortunately. Well, I think they do it on a subconscious level. I don't think they wake up and go. I think what happens is, oh, man, I got to make a decision. You know, what decision should I make?

Is it going to be right or is it going to be wrong? Well, you know what? Make a goddamn decision and move forward, man. And if you fail, dust yourself off. make another decision. So you're in the club, 40 years as a biker, 30 practically is the president

of the L.A. Ventura Chapter of the Hells Angels. Hung out with movie stars, rock and roll legends, survived a war with the Mongols. Several wars. Several wars of the Mongols. Mongols, banditos, outlaws.

You beat two federal cases, a murder conspiracy, and arson conspiracy probably tied up with murder. State racketeering case, 59 counts. You beat a state case.

What was that? 2002. They dropped all the charges. I pled to a tax charge. Oh my God. So were you? 59 counts. Wow.

I mean, we've all cheated on our couple of deductions on our taxes. What would the fuck was that over? That was just another. attempt. Yeah. They said I owed 300,000 in state franchise back taxes.

And so it's funny, I go into the courtroom and I pled guilty on a conspiracy. And they dropped like 50. What were all the other 50 counts? Narcotics, stealing from the Vicodin from the base and all that stuff. Okay. So they were trying to tie the Vicodin with the money. Right. With the taxes.

Yeah. Okay. So I researched along with my lawyer, if I pled guilty, I immediately would be responsible for the back taxes of $290,000. But if I pled no low contendra, I had an audit. I would get an audit. So I pled guilty. Yeah, for sure.

No, I pled. I didn't plead guilty. I pled no low contendra. And as soon as they made the plea and whatnot, the district attorney stood up and said, I like Mr. Christie, arrested if he doesn't pay the bill by, you know, 5 o'clock tonight. I'm just saying that.

I can't remember exactly what he said. And Judge Clark, who I never thought liked me, he goes, I think Mr. Christie's up to something here. And he goes, do you have something you want to say, Mr. Christie? I said, well, judge, I'd, I'd like an audit. And he goes, I'm going to grant you your audit. And they didn't know.

And he goes, next time you accept a plea from somebody, you better research it. And I mean, these guys, they tried to give me a three-year gag on talking to the media. That was one of the conditions of my probation was Mr. Chris cannot talk to the media for three years. And Judge Clark, he is a funny story of bleeding up to. Judge Clark says, are Mr. Christie's words so powerful? He must silence him. And I always thought Judge Clark didn't like me because I'd been in, you know, trafficked court and all that shit.

And so in, when I did the Outlaw Chronicles, I talked about Judge Clark. And, you know, my daughter knows him well because she stood before him so many times. And they met, like, by accident. in one of the shopping malls. And my daughter said, oh, Judge Clark, it's so nice to see you. And he goes, oh, Mariah, you look like you're doing great. And he goes, oh, and tell your dad, thanks for the shoutout on Outlaw Chronicles. I mean, you know.

Yeah. It's so, yeah. There's a lot of people out there you think. They're taking it very seriously. And I, you know, I mean, Clark over the years put out some stuff. But I think they understand, you know, they understand the dynamics of things. And so since you basically beat that, you just had to catch up on your taxes. Yeah, my audit.

Did you do any time? I'd been in no bail for a year. Oh, because you've been in jail. Yeah, for a year. And I let me out, time served. But this is, this is, these things, they overcharge you and they overcharge you and they overcharge you. And it becomes cumbersome for them, you know. And it's like they say I owe $290,000 in back taxes.

I get the audit. I owe him $1,100. So there has to be some kind of loss. You have to fight back, right? You can't. I mean, you know, when I was sentenced in 2013, Judge Wu turned out to be really interesting guy, you know, and very fair.

He tells a U.S. attorney. He goes, look, I know you want this to be your career case. He goes, it's not. and he goes, you're going to have to come to terms with that. And I'm sitting over there, the fence table all smug. And then he turns and he points at me. And he goes, and you, Mr. Christie, God only knows what you've gotten away with. He goes, you ought to be satisfied with what I'm going to sentence you to.

He gave me a year, you know. But my daughter got credit for two years' house arrest, which they don't give you in the feds. And she said, come on, Your Honor. You know, he sat in his house for two years waiting for this to happen. One of the big questions was During the voir dire, the judge was asking every, he had a big jury pool, 76 people. Do you watch Sons of America?

If you do, do you believe the president knows everything All the members are doing? Anybody that said yes, we bumped them. Yeah, good. We bumped them. Because that was one of the biggest shows at the time. It was. People were like, well, this is really how it happens.

Exactly. And they said that. The jurors go, well, isn't that how it happened? happens. And that's why we made the deal. My daughter told me she goes, look, dad, you want to face a life sentence in today's environment with Sons of Anarchy, one of the number one shows on TV? I don't think you should do it. Yeah. So we, you got away with a lot. Judge Wu was right. That's what Judge Wu said, and I think Judge Wu may have been right. Crossing the Rubicon, my friend George Crissy, it's so good to see you. It's great to see you here in Austin. I mean, I'm tickled that you thought of me. and your book for motion, and I'll come see you in Ventura, man.

I hope you do. Because we're coming back to Cali. Come to the house and come to my little studio. We'll do... We'd love to. Say less. I'm going to put you on the hot seat, man. Fucking A.

I'm an open book, you know. Crossing the Rubicon, go check it out. Get out on Amazon or your website. Book Baby Book Club. My website. If you get it on my website, you can get a signed,

and you can get a coin. Yeah, and the coins are fire. phenomenal. You're going to, You know who George Christie is. Go go see, check out his content, check out his page, check out his Patreon, all that. The legend, really, really. Thank you.

I had a great time. Thanks, Sven. See you later, guys. Yeah, you too. All right, man.