The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Houston Drug Trafficker Exposes The Hydrocodone Epidemic, Making Millions From The Opioid Crisis

Episode Date: May 10, 2026

Houston street hustler Jugg sits down with to tell the unbelievable story of how he helped fuel the hydrocodone pill explosion across Louisiana and Texas during the early opioid epidemic. From moving thousands of pills a week out of Houston pain clinics to watching entire communities fall into addiction, Jugg gives a raw firsthand account of the rise of “lean culture,” pill trafficking, doctor shopping, Roxy 30s, and the transition into today’s fentanyl crisis. In this interview, Jugg breaks down: -How Houston pain clinics operated during the opioid boom -Making millions trafficking hydrocodone and Roxy pills -Drug culture in Houston and Louisiana in the 2000s -The rise of lean, syrup, and pill addiction -Corrupt clinics, pharmacies, and doctor shopping -Prison, street politics, and surviving the game -Why fentanyl changed everything -His life after prison running trucking businesses and podcasts This is one of the wildest untold stories from the Southern opioid epidemic — straight from someone who lived it. Go Support Jugg! IG: https://www.instagram.com/juggwdh YouTube: @wdhtv2 This Episode Is #Sponsored By Superpower! Head to https://superpower.com and use code CONNECT at checkout for $20 off your membership. Unlock your new health intelligence. 100+ biomarkers. Every year. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpod Hims! To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/connect Prescription required. See website for details and important safety information. Sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra®. Viagra® is a registered trademark of Viatris Specialty LLC. Hims is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris. Hell Fresh! Go to https://hellofresh.com/connect10fm now to Get 10 Free Meals + a Free breakfast for Life! One per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box, new subscribers only, varies by plan. That’s HelloFresh dot com slash connect10fm to Get 10 Free Meals + free breakfast for Life. Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Ground Floor of the Pill Game 01:45 Introducing Jugg: Origins & Early Hustle 03:30 Family Ties & Teenage Hustling 05:27 Crack, Pills & Generational Drug Shifts 08:17 The Houston Move & Pain Clinics 11:17 The Hydrocodone Boom 14:07 The Pill Market: Operations & Economics 19:07 Scaling Up: Distribution, Profits & Players 20:45 This Episode Is Sponsored By Superpower 22:29 From Weed to Pills: Business Evolution 28:07 Doctor Shopping & Law Enforcement Crackdown 29:56 This Episode Is Sponsored By Hims 31:38 Switching to Roxys & New Market Challenges 35:37 Effects on Community & Pill Culture 39:34 This Episode Is Sponsored By Hello Fresh 41:05 The Pharmacy System & Regulatory Changes 45:07 Crossing Over: Racial Lines & Generational Impact 48:57 Legal Troubles & Escalating Risks 53:07 Prison Time & Lessons Learned 01:00:17 Fake Pills & Fentanyl Danger 01:04:57 Rap Life vs. Hustle Life 01:10:47 Life after the Game: Trucking & Entrepreneurship 01:14:57 Logistics, Trucking, and Felon-Friendly Careers 01:19:17 Reflections, Community & Closing Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You got on the ground floor of this hydrocodone pill game. I can actually say I witnessed it. And unfortunately, contributed to it. You could just make a couple hundred bucks in an hour. It was too good to be true. You never notice your drug act until you want something and can't afford it. So doctors were giving out, like, party bags. He was getting hydrocodone, soma, which is a muscle relaxer.

You're getting Xanax, and you're getting eight ounces of syrup, and I'm refill on everything. Man, I'm telling you, I'm saying doctors, lawyers, everybody. My guest today goes by Jugg, a Houston dope boy. who made millions of dollars trafficking in hydrocodone pills. Jugg is from Louisiana, but relocated to Houston, Texas in the mid-2000s at the beginning of the lean epidemic in that city. But instead of selling lean, which is codeine and promethazine syrup, Jugg found a huge market for hydrocodone pills.

Back in his hometown of Alexandria, Louisiana, he could sell 20,000 pills a day at $1.50 profit per pill. Killing them. In fact, Jugg and a few others single-hand created this niche opioid epidemic in Louisiana the same way that Mike D did with Lean in Houston. This is one of the least talked about but most profitable and widespread drug epidemics in the Deep South during the mid-2000s opioid crisis.

I myself had no idea that guys like Jugg were moving this way. It's incredible. After getting out of prison, Jugg became a legal business owner and is today a successful entrepreneur. He also teaches ex-cons how to get their trucking license, a very very valuable skill, so make sure to check him out on socials as well as his YouTube page. Southern culture is so wild, you guys. You're going to love this one.

It's Jugg, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Hey, Spotify, thanks for watching. Do me a quick favor and leave a five-star review and drop a comment below. It really, really helps us out. Thanks so much. Enjoy. Jugg, thanks for being here, man. What's good, my man?

Where Jug? Where does Jugg come from? Oh, Juk. My homie gave me the name Jugg. X-Men. He just started calling me Juggerna. He said I got a big head. But I'm a rapper.

So that became my rap name. You feel? When I was trying to think of a rap name, he was like Juggerna. And I liked it the way it sound. And then, of course, it gets cut short to Jug. Like, I'm Juggernaut. I'm jugging out in Alexandria, but in Houston I'm jug. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. In the streets were you Jug as well? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah, that was my name. It followed me because, you know, that was my name. I had a big old chain that said, Jug. Nice.

Yeah. Were you rapping before the streets or after you blew up in the game, did you start rapping? Like, how did that work? I used the game to finance my rap career, but I was hustling since 93. You know what I'm saying? I was hustling since 93. You're a youngster. Yeah.

Yeah. Your dad was in the game? Yeah, my dad brought me my first 10 pounds a week. That's how I, you know, that's how I saw my first real thousands through my pops. And you were just like a teenager. I was in the ninth grade. Never forget it. Wow.

Never forget it. Yeah, that's wild. My grandma used to live in the dope neighborhood, but I'm going to school close to her, so I walked to her house out of school, and it's crackheads everywhere. So we just jump off the porch. And then, you know, I was playing football at a point.

And every time I get out of school, my uncle never be the made a couple hundred dollars, and I'm just starting. Am I too late for going to pick me up? So I quit football and I went hustling for a time. Yeah. And then I... Well, you blown away by how?

how fast, like, crack was moving. Like, you could just make a couple hundred bucks in an hour. Yeah, definitely. It was too good to be true. Yeah. It was too good to be true. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting because you saw, you saw, like, the ground floor of the crack game, and then later, when you became an adult, you got on the ground floor of this hydrocodone pill game. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's kind of a blessing. It's the inception of it. The inception of the epidemic.

I can actually say I witnessed it and unfortunately contributed to it. You said there was no heroin because your story is an opioid story. You said there was no heroin in Alexandria, Louisiana, where you grew up. But it's interesting because in Port Arthur, Texas, those are like big dope-fine

kind of working class port towns. Like heroin was big back in the day there. But then just right across the border in Louisiana, they just weren't using it. Well, in New Orleans, they was on heroin bed. You know, but it just wasn't in our town. Like, the few people I have heard that shot up, it was shoot up a pill called Delalla.

And it was a heavy opioid. But that was the fall as they go. They never shot up heroin. You couldn't go nowhere in Alexandria and say, I'm going to go get me a $4, a $10 or whatever. You just couldn't do it. Did crackheads? Because, you know, like the way that drug addicts usually operate,

it's like you either like uppers, stimulants, coke, et cetera, or you like downers, opioids, hair on, pills, whatever. When the hydrocodone became big, thanks to you and others, did you notice crackheads start to leave the crack alone and come over to that? Or did those stay two different markets? It was a generational thing. Okay.

It was a generational thing. Explain that. What do you mean? The old school guys smoked crack. You had your pill population. Just say it was about 20, 30 people, just like 50 people in Alexandria in that pill racket.

Remember I was telling you, we had the old guys that right. So you had, though, they supplying those 50 people. But it's not a big market. And they would drink Serb. I used to hear on hunking them talk about Serb.

They used to always say this guy named Killer bringing some Serb, and I'm thinking they're talking about pancake serve. Like, what the fuck? Until I got older, like, that's what they was talking about. But so they always did it,

but it wasn't like, even my uncle in them, they snorted powder and stuff, but they brick men, they got bricks. You see what I'm saying? They're the men in the town. And, uh, but they were drink, sir. So if they experimented with it, but it wasn't no big racket like it was when my generation

was introduced to the pill thing. And I, maybe the doctor's office wasn't available. The market wasn't there for them to, you know, large quantity supply. Yeah, because later on when you really get into it, you have to go to Houston, the huge city and you're able to go to like hundreds of doctors. To get scripts. You can't do that in Alexandria. There's only but so many doctors.

They ain't but so many doctors. Yeah. Yeah. So you come to Houston and the way you just go to sit, you know what the doctor's office. They hand out flyers at the mall everywhere. Come to my pain management clinic. So me, I will go for myself to get a bottle.

And then I'm talking to the people. Everybody coming out of there. I'm asking, can I buy your bag? Buy your bag? Buy your bag? And you come up on a thousand, you know, 1,200 right quick. No shit. So you just went there.

You just went there for yourself at the beginning? Yeah. Because you were sipping. I'm sipping. I'm going to get the drink and I want a name bottle. We're traveling. You know what I'm in the music business? We're traveling and shit.

So I want my name situation. So if we get pulled over it, we don't get in no trouble. But once again, it just took off all of a sudden where everybody wanted them. So it became my business. Okay, so explain that. So you're going around doing shows? Yeah. And obviously, like, it's hip, it's,

it's cool to have lean. It's cool to have drink. Yeah. What does that mean your name on it? My name on the bottle. Yeah. Okay. The bottle, I'm carrying it in.

My name is on that bottle. Because legally, you're only allowed to have stuff to use it. I won't go to jail for this. Right. You know what I'm saying? You're traveling with a group and you just don't want to, you know, we'll ride with paint bottles with no name on it. But if you could, you want a name situation.

And you guys didn't look at it like it was a drug addict thing. We was players. We were having too much money. Like, listen, you know what a drug addict. You never notice you're a drug addict until you want something and can't afford it. Yeah. As long as you got the money, you know, what is a drug addict? You think a drug addict is a homeless person or a person that don't bathe,

the person that wash cars and get their drug? That's what you're thinking addict is until you have a habit that you can't afford. And then you're like, oh, shit. So you guys were bawling off of, like, weed money and brick money and shit. We're weed and brick money. Yeah. And then, so the drink was just a hobby. It was like drinking alcohol.

It was a hobby. It was a culture thing. It was a culture thing. Like I said, oh, geez, we used to drink. It was a drink, a hydrocodone drink called Tussinex. Then you got a permithazine with coating drink is purple. Tussinex is yellow. Promethazine is purple.

And Alexandria, we favored the Tuss more. But when the screw culture came out, we would drink to purple, but that ain't what we wanted. But when the culture came out and it was just more plentiful, you can find a pint of purple. And, you know, at the mall and you come down and ask somebody, to get a pain. And they're going to point you to it. So now we started drinking that a little more. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. So what you guys in Alexandria didn't really drink like that? Like it wasn't an epidemic the way it was in Houston. There wasn't this big market for a lean. When it broke here, it broke there. Right. It wasn't epidemic in Houston. It was just like nobody, like Mike D would say,

nobody thought they was addicted. They just drinking at nighttime. when they're going by screw girls. You know what I'm saying? They're not waking up in the morning with the shits that come down the line when you, you know what I'm saying? Did you get addicted? Yeah, definitely.

I definitely, but I never experienced like withdrawals on them because I've been able to afford my shit. You know what I'm saying? So as long as you can afford good shit, you can avoid withdrawals. Yeah, that's with anything. If you smoke weed or if you drink beer, if you, if you got money to buy your beer, you're going to get, you're going to be able to take care of yourself. Wow. But eventually you have to stop.

Stop, though. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. You got to get that one. Mm. So you're wrapping and you're killing it selling weed. Yeah.

You were moving like hundreds of pounds. Tell us about that. Uh, getting about 150 pounds a week in Alexander. Flushing them in about two hours time. Killing them. Killing them. What kind of weed is it? Regular wheat.

Back then, the dro was, dro wasn't around like that. Just like Mexican. Just Mexican swag. Yeah, Mexican skag. But it was good green, though. Like, don't get a twist. It'll be the best regularly you can get, you know what I'm saying? And, of course, when you're buying that much, like, it might be two to three different kinds,

but it's going to be some of that bomb in there. You got to have that for you, for it to go like it's going for me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, so you had the plug. Were you dealing with Mexicans? Who was, like, the... I was dealing with some guys from North Louisiana in the beginning. Actually, I dealt with Mexicans, though.

Man, I didn't have had plugs. You're going to, in this business, man, people are going to go to jail. People are going to fall off. I haven't had more money than a lot of my plugs. because they just, you know, raised in Houston and went to school with the guy that got the tons. But they don't have the money to go buy it, you know what I'm saying? So they're making $25, $30 a joint or $100 or whatever they're making.

And I'm coming through spending $50 or $100, you see what I'm saying? So the plug thing, that was, you know what I'm saying? I messed with who had it and it was trustworthy. We had a network. You know what I'm saying? You ain't just going to anybody and going to spend that kind of money. You're going to run into a brick wall if you do. And you had your own bank.

Like you really, you had the bank role and the clientele. In the beginning, I was getting fronted, but it came a point in time when I just had to start my own organization. It was just best for me. The pill thing, I could have stayed over there because the weed was convenient.

It was fairly cheap, and I was making good money off of it. But I just wanted, my pill thing got so big. I just like, I got to get out of this organization because I don't want no heat from over there to come over here and corrupt what I got going on. So what year,

did you have that light bulb moment where you were like, oh, I can buy these what they call trash trash pills in Houston and flip them in seconds in Alexandria these hydrocodone pills? My takeoff was 2004, 2005.

Did you dump them off to some people that liked this shit? Like, how do you start a market? Like, did you go to Alexandria? The market was already there. That's what I'm saying. It was people that probably started before me. But like I told you, the consistency. Like, when I got in it, my consistency was like none of them.

Yeah, it might be people might come through with 20,000 a month. I'm coming through with 20,000 a week because I got the transportation to them. The average person renegating their situation, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. And I wasn't doing no renegade backseat action. Like, I had a real operation. So my consistency was next to none. So for people who don't know, like me, these hydrocodone pills, how many of those would equal

equal, if you're a person taking them to get high, how many of those would equal like a pint of lean? Probably about 60, I want to say. Oh, that's a shit load. Okay. So, so you could see. I mean, in milligrams, we're only speaking in milligrams. That's what I mean, in milligrams.

Yeah. So for every ounce of codeine syrup is 40 milligrams in that one ounce. That's four pills. Okay. So that's why I say about four times, forever is 48. It's close to 60, right? Close to 60 pills. Okay.

So each pill is about 10, 10 milligrams, yeah. Okay. That was the beginning. But they had 5 milligram, but then if that's, nobody wants that. I'm coming down here. I need 10 milligram greens. I need green beans. Yeah.

Call them green beans? It's specific. That's what they was called green beans. I need minutes you can get. And then, of course, you know, you can't control what they get when they go to them. You're going to take the blues that come with them and maybe the whites and yellows.

But they're going to not get that many of them in there. You know, it won't be many. If I get 20,000 green beans, if I got 20,000 green beans, I might have 1,500 blues, another 1,500 yellows and 500 to 1,000 pinks like that. But majority of when I'm getting is what I want. Right.

So the people taking these, if they're only 10 milligrams, the average person who's just popping them, you're popping multiples. depending on where you're at in your addiction. Right. Like I said, you start out taking one. One get you right. Best feeling in the world.

But if you've been doing this for 10, 15, 12 years, you see what I'm saying? Now you've got to probably take four, five, or 10 and wake up. So jockeys will wake up and pop 10. Yeah. Oh, fucking right. Brutal, bro. Wake up to 10. I'm talking about, you know, I never was the loose pill guy.

I call them loose pills. I never was the loose pill guy. But I know people who would, man. I'm talking about. Knock on your door, ring that phone. It's the same effect as hell wrong. You see what I'm saying? But yeah, man, guys throwing 10 back on the wake up.

And they're doing that three times a day. And, you know, so explain the scales. Like, this is super low dollar, this is a super low dollar market. Like you were paying wholesale in Houston like a dollar or $1.50 a pill? It started out of a dollar. My first situation was a dollar. Pay a, spend a dollar, I will make $2.250. But I'm only getting $1,000 at this time, maybe $1,000, 2,000 pill.

And then as the operation grow, it went up to like $150. You know, I've seen them go as high as $4. We were paying $4. At the end, it was $4. And back home, you can only get $5 for them. Right. So you can bang out about $1.00 a pill, maybe $1.50 a pill. That was the average profit margin.

So if you're touching $100,000, you're making $100,000. Right. I mean, me, that's the cost. equation, but I'm only doing 50 cent if you come to Houston and get on yourself. So, but that's the profit Martin. If you come to Houston, I'm paying 150. I'm gonna sell on you for two.

You can go home and do what you do. I'm only gonna make 50 cents because you're coming up. But if I bring them all the way, I'm making a dollar. See, whatever I spend. So 100,000 pills, you're making anywhere from 50 to 100 G's. Yeah. But unlike heroin, which a gram of hair on,

go for $80, 100 dollars in a place like Alexander of Virginia, you know, You got a rob and steal, kill to get that kind of money. Fucking anybody can pay $3.50 or $4 for a pill. Yeah. Three for ten. Like, every person can come up with $10. Right.

Until they don't cost that no more. See, that's what makes the game go up. They just stop costing three for ten. Now they're going up to four and they're going up to this, you know? So how do you, how did you source your pills? Obviously, you had runners, but explain that. Like how did you, if you wanted to make a buy of like you needed 10,000 pills from Houston, how did you get them? I just called my people.

They're going to call me. It would be like by the time I'm getting to this point, I'm living here. You know what I'm saying? You live in Houston. Yeah. But when they got to that point, well, they come in with 10 a day, I'm living here. And they're just going to call me with whatever they get. I got three or four people going to call me with whatever they come up with in the day's time.

rather that be 10,000, 3,000, 5,000, a thousand, and that's how it went. You just, you meet people like I was telling you, when you're on ground level, you're going to the doctor, you're going to meet some bosses. You see what I'm saying? And they'll be like, well, shit, man, you know. And there you go, you got you a plug.

And then that might not be the only plug because he's going to be able to fit your order. He's just going to be able to get you a thousand a day. Then you get this person and get you 2,000, 3,000. Man, my best plugs was female. Females get up early. They're on time, and they through by 2 o'clock to get them kids out of school. So then how much did they make?

What did you pay them for bringing you the stuff? I'm telling you, I'm paying $1.50 a pill. Okay, so they're getting them for even cheaper. Yeah, they're paying, okay, the doctor visit was $50 back then. Pay $50 dollars. You pay the person that you got to go to the doctor for your $25. And the bag might be $75. I see.

See what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So they might have $300 tile up in this whole bag. And how many pills are in a bag? 120. Okay. Got it. But they got Xanax.

They got eight ounces of syrup. See what I'm saying? So doctors were giving out like glad bags, like party bags. Cocktails. He was getting hydrocodone on, soma, which is a muscle relaxer. You get Xanax and you're getting eight ounces of syrup and a refill on everything. And we're surprised now that half of the country's on fentanyl. Exactly.

They're legally... They was legally writing this stuff, man. Yeah. And a whole ass black market, a generation later. Did you see the effects of that in the community? Not initially. It was a player thing. Like, it was just always a player thing until it wasn't no more.

And then I moved. So I'm not living there to see... You feel me? The people that's coming to me to shop, which I'm going back home. Don't get it twisted, but I'm just not seeing the effects. Like, it wasn't until you wake up one day and like, man, it's time fucked up. Everybody hooked on shit. You know, they're going to methadone clinics and different things.

Like, that's when it became real. So it was like a heroin epidemic. Like, you try to get withdrawal from hydrocodone pills, you do have to go to a methadone clinic. You have to throw up and go through shakes. You're going to go through your three days or you're going to have to go get something to help you alone. That's just that business. Even drank was like that.

Yeah. Like we would say, nobody knew what it was. You didn't know what it was. You just like, man, somebody, one day I was uncomfortable when somebody told me, like, because I didn't feel like I was addicted and I had them. I'm like, man, I don't feel right. I was just feeling funny. You had some medicine a day?

I'm like, no, I ain't did nothing. He was like, and he gave me one. And I took it and it went away. And I'm like, damn. And that was my first time, like, whoa. And I had them. I just hadn't done nothing yet. You know what I'm saying?

But the guy's selling them, like your dealers, the ones that you were giving them to in Alexandria, these were like real drug dealers. Oh, yeah, definitely. And they're buying thousands of pills, man. These boys spending $20,000 and $30,000 with you there. There ain't no chumps. Like, these boys spending big money.

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For a limited time, our listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to Superpower.com and use code Connect for $20 off your membership. That's code Connect. And when you sign up, we'll ask him how you heard about SuperPympers. let them know that the Connect sent you to support our show. Thank you so much and thank you to Superpower. How many people did you have distributing for you? Man, I had about four people I would deal with it, to be for real with you.

That's plenty. I had about four people that I would deal with in Alexandria, and I had about another four that would come to Houston. Right. Okay. So it's about eight people total. They spread out throughout the state, and nobody stepping on nobody toes,

and we eat the hand over fist. But mind you, It's five to ten people like me. Like I said, I just got the consistency that nobody got. Nobody got the consistency I got because they ain't got the system I got. Yeah, your professionalism, I mean, you just, you have a knack for this. Yeah. 14 years old and you're juggling pounds of weed.

I don't know. What was different than you? At 15, 16 years old, I'm getting on the Greyhound going to New Orleans, getting 10 pounds away from my pops coming back home. I'm making my operation go until he went to prison in 99. And at that point, I had to, you know, I had to get off that train. Yeah. But I learned from that. Yeah, you were, you weren't a dumbass.

My wife today, I met her. She was, she used to take me to take care of my business. And we ended up getting married. Oh, really? Yeah. That's just, that's how you guys met. She was like a, she go hoots. But that we didn't have no connection.

Like, my best friend was dating her sister. And I'm just on a paper chase. And I'm like, man, you get me right to Baton Rouge? Because my pops in New Orleans, he's going to meet me in Baton Rouge. Yeah, I take him. And we got cold like that and shit. 27 years later. There you go.

There you go. It's a street love story. So any amount of pills that your runners in Houston would bring you, you'd get rid of. And that's what's interesting about this phenomena. This syrup, hydrocodone phenomena is like there was never enough. of it. Yeah. It was not a demand problem.

It was a supply problem. It was always, yeah, it was always a supply problem. Never demand. Yeah. Like I said, you could touch down in that time with many as you can count and you wouldn't have enough to supply everybody. Now, you might have to expose yourself to maybe a few licks that you don't want. Like, just say you pop up with $100,000 and you try to move like I do.

I'm a two, three-hour do. I don't hold inventory. I didn't have stair houses. I didn't have it. If I pull in with 50,000 pills, they'd gone in two hours. You see what I'm saying? So just say my network won't 10, 10 to 10, but I got 60 extra thousand.

Then I might have to go outside of my network to move a few extra type of shit. But I didn't do that too often because I just... So you could pull up and just be like, if you needed 60,000, if you needed to dump off an extra 60,000 pills, you could just make a couple of calls and be like, hey, this is what I got. and people would say, I'll take them.

Yeah. Because it was like, it's like guaranteed money. It's like a guaranteed investment. It's guaranteed investment. And then it was always people, when you, when you're up in the streets, there's always people want to deal with you, but they just can't get to you. You know what I'm saying? So sometimes they get lucky.

Were you taking cash on delivery? Everything's COD on the PILSA. I would front the way, like the way it was a front, buy what you can, have front of the rest. Yeah. But the Pills is absolutely COD. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just like tens of thousands a day you can make.

Yeah. That's fucking wild. And did you say you had a transport? You had like a... I had a good friend of mine was a truck driver. Uh-huh. He would come see me. I don't care where he'd go at.

He come and see me every Friday. Or maybe earlier, but guaranteed every Friday he come and see me before he go home. And that was how I would get my shit back safely. Yeah. Yeah. How much would you give him? What you mean? How many pills?

would he bring back for you? 40,000, 25,000, 40,000, 100 pounds a week. It just depends on what I got this week. How many, what I feel like sending back? But the biggest, the most I've ever sent back was 50 and 150. Hmm. Yeah. It's 50,000 pills and 150 pounds.

How much does 50,000 pills look like? 50,000 pills is pretty big. That's a pretty big, but a small suitcase. The smallest carry-on suitcase. That's about 50. That's what 50,000 made. They look like that. But if you get into rocks, it's 50,000 football looks like a football.

Why? Because they're just a lot smaller. They're so small. Like, they ain't got nothing to that cut on them. It's like they're different. They're small. They're real small. By the size of a one-carat, not even one-carat.

I have a carrot down there. So it's around 2007, 2008 that the DEA, this starts to become like a federal problem. Yeah. They just started getting in the, their business at that point. By 2008-9, I wouldn't say 7-8. By 8-9, they started getting their business to where, yeah, 7-8-9-ish,

to where now they can track who's going to, because they call it doctor-shop. And they created a fucking crime in Houston. It was called doctor-shopping. So if you, before they made it mainstream, they would let you go to two or three doctors and they would just have a warrant for you.

You get full of one, whatever. Your doctor shop and you've been in three doctors this month, this week or whatever. and that's how people will find out, okay, this illegal. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because the doctor's greeted. They'll write you that paper.

And they may know you're not going to be able to pick it up. Because the pharmacists got connected. That's when they got bad when the pharmacists got connected. Right. All the doctors was connected, you were still kind of good. But when they connected the form was, like when every pharmacy could see what, everything you picked up forever, that's when the game went to shit. But the doctors corrupt, man.

That writes you and, you know, make you argue with them about the money. You know, you got a bad paper. This sounds like the oxy cotton epidemic. Like what was going on in the early 2000s in Houston and the deep south, like with the black community? Yeah. It was kind of like, sounds a lot like the oxycotton boom epidemic out of the pill clinics in Florida. In Florida. It was the same.

They was running parallel. They was running parallel. But they used to call it Hillbill, here everyone. They was on oxy cotton. Then when oxy cotton got hot, that's when roxycontin. got you introduced because it's a lower milligram. It was Odean on oxy cotton because you can get an 80 milligram pill. Oh, fuck.

So you can imagine, like, guys just overdoing it. So they, they, the biggest oxycodone pill you can get now is a 30 milligram. Okay. And that's when youroxys got introduced. And that was around 2010-ish. Okay, so you switched. At the end, like, you realized, okay, I can't get enough pills because it's too hard for runners now to go to these doctors. And he used to taking pills too now.

Right. So it caught on in Houston. It caught on in Houston to what now they got peer houses. Right. People down there taking them, loose pills is what I call them. They got loose pill operations. So that, going to impede on your business. And you got these pharmacies sink, so it's just slow. Meaning like you can't get enough because you have other guys now sucking up the squad.

The same guys that was running for me got peer houses type of shit. Am I making sense? Yeah. The same guys that would go get the people and bring me to 3,000 pills a day. now they got pill houses. So instead of bringing them to me, they just selling them pill for pill because they got a clientele for it now. Right. Yeah. You're not the only guy. Exactly. Today's episode was brought to you by Hymns, my favorite company in the world. I have Hymns hair spray

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Like, successful rappers want the super expensive stuff. Oh, what you mean? Taking them? Yeah, did they take them? I told you, they looked at us like we was crazy when we was taking these pills. Now, them same rappers know what you're talking about if you speak up.

But back in 2005, if I throw me a pill back and pour up my cup, they really, why are you taking that bullshit? And I'd be saying, why are you taking that bullshit? You know what I'm saying? And I used to always say, boy, this is going to change your life? And then they started taking them like for sex pills.

Really? Yeah, the hydrocodone on, man. I'm telling you, man. Get you hoarding? You catch you heat? It keeps you hard. Get the fuck out of here. Seriously?

I swear to God, bro. That was the only time of Houston dude. And then, before you know it, that, they want to do that every night. I know a bunch of dudes got addicted like that. They're using these hydrocodone and the dick pills. And now you're not addicted to him. because it makes you feel good also. After you do your thing,

you land back feeling good like, shit. I got me a cup on the side of bed, and that's how it just exploded. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, so that's like, it's like whatever. It's a mixture of alcohol and ecstasy and Viagra. That's what it sounds like this effect is.

Yeah. And it's so fascinating. That was a natural side effect of the hydrocodone, the heart erection thing. That's just a natural side effect. That's why if you hear heroin people say dope dick, right. That's what the term comes from because opioids keep you erect. Yeah.

Can we chat GPT that? That doesn't sound right. I swear to live in Jesus, man. Can we look that up? I could call somebody on speakerphone 20 people and they'll be like, what? Man, I went crazy. Pop to a person went crazy last night. I mean, I thought when you were dope sick, you couldn't get a heart on, but maybe that's cocaine.

You ain't got it, but you're not. I'm talking about when you end you. when you then did your thing and you coming down off that motherfucker and you go home and baby next to you, you're right. I'm telling you dudes would take them like, man,

I'm going to take this hour before I go home, man. I'm going to get baby the blues tonight. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So drugs in the opioid class, short answer, no.

Opiates typically do the opposite. But this isn't, you're not looking up, you're just typing in opiates. You're not typing in the hydrocodone. Hydrocodone. Hydrocodone pills. Actually, why? Say, why do hydrocodone pills keep you erect?

Okay. I think black guys just fuck good. Just kidding. Now, I'm telling you, bro, a lot of dudes found that little secret, bro. Speaking of race, which I brought up, found a way to shoehorn in, was there, was this a black community thing? No. Or did it cross racial lines? Cross racial lines.

Okay. My first, my first main lick. That made me understand the market was a white guy who used to front weed to name Adam. He bought him a bottle of pills every two, three days.

Really? And that's, I'm going to get them from the pioneers. Right. I'm going to get up 100 count every, back then they used to sell seal 100 bottles. They used to come in a hundred counting

in a bottle, sealed up. And I would go get that for him. You know, and I'd make me $100 off of it. I'd get it for three, sell it to him for four, and he just taking them. And that's what made me realize as a market.

Because he's, you know, He's coming back. One went to two. Like, biggest the availability, he wanted them. Right. And back then, I wasn't even, like, we're taking them, but we ain't stronger. Like, what they got going on, but we ain't, you know what I'm saying? Right.

Yeah. So my first customer on that was what I got. Yeah, it seems like if a pill can sell for $350 or $4, that's a working class. It's just working class. Mindy, I told you, I never did the loose pill thing. So for me to deal with him, he had it by quantity. Yeah. Like, it had to be worth it.

Yeah, yeah. Like, at this time, I'm hustling. You know, man, I ain't moving for less than 100 hours type of shit. For sure. But I'm running M10, 15, $20 a week. Right. And, yeah, and that's my guy, so I want to keep him straight. But I'm seeing how much he wants these pills.

So I started inquiring. So you went from 100 pills to 1,000 pills to 2,000 pills to now 10,000 pills isn't enough. 20,000 is gone. 50,000 is gone in a day. I don't even want to deal with the weed no more. But I got, I just, I'm greeted and it's money. But the pills were so lucrative and good and big that I just didn't even want to be bothered with that anymore. Man, this stuff got no smell.

It's just so many positives. It was so many positives about it. Like in terms of hustling, there ain't nothing positive about it. But I'm saying in terms of not getting caught with it. Right. And it's only a Schedule 3 on the DEA narcotics schedule. Scheduling, yeah. It might have moved up by now.

But back then it was a schedule CDS 3. You go to jail for pills or CDS3. You told me off camera. Go for Zanex and CDS4. You told me off camera you had like cocaine dealers that just left the bricks alone. Yeah, I had guys, I had a few guys I know just quit the bricks. Where they put them on the back burner. The pills were so lucrative and moving so fast and it was so much money that they didn't want to be bothered with their bricks no more.

Like I was telling you with the weed. They just devoted their time to getting runners and orchestrating their situation. Yeah. It was that lucrative, bro. I'm telling him. So this really is a new generation phenomenon. Because you're basically my age. You're a little older than me, but like, this is not like old 80s crackheads.

This is like young people taking the shit. Old people, but also like young people, right? Yeah, yeah. Because this is 2008. And it's cross-generational, you know, with the people. Like, you'll see a person 70 coming by something, and you'll see a person 20 coming by something. That's one of the drills that just crossed, man, I'm telling the honest,

doctors, lawyers, executives at big companies back home, everybody was on the pills. Did you ever catch a case with the hydrocodone? Yeah, in 2008 I got caught with a thousand pills. Luckily, every time I went, both times I went to jail. I was lucky that it wasn't what it could have been. But I got caught with a thousand pills in a pistol. And what is the charge? Could you say, how I'm just using?

Possional. They didn't, bro, they were so green in Houston at this time. Like, they, man, for a day and a half, they really just didn't know how to charge me. And then they finally charged me, it was bad. Like, it went for them not knowing how to charge me. They gave me a $40,000 bond for $1,000 pills. Like, that's not, in Houston, that's not, that's not equivalent. That ain't how they work.

Right. You feel me? Because they didn't know. That's a lot of money or not a lot? They weighed them. They weighed the pills and just charged me with however many grams of hydrocodone because they didn't know how to how it worked. You see what I'm saying?

Is 40 grand a lot of bail? Hell yeah, that's a lot of bond for that. A little bit, a thousand pills, that's like getting caught with three pounds of weed. I had a half a million dollar bail for weed. For weed? Half a million dollar bail. Yeah, to put a 50 G's. Yeah.

Damn. Yeah. They thought I was like big time in it or whatever, I guess. But, all right, I guess so. I guess 40 G's is a lot. I mean, it wasn't a lot. It was just a lot for that drug. I posted, listen, and that money wasn't nothing.

I had to get a bondsman in Louisiana to get me. Nobody in Texas would touch me because I had Louisiana credentials still. So no bondsman in New Texas would give me. I had to get one from Louisiana to come get me. Yeah. This episode is sponsored by Hello Fresh. You guys, it's midweek. You're tired and hungry, and all you want is a home-cooked meal.

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I got a deuce. I did seven months on a deuce. I went to Mineral Wells. Ironically, I did two years, I went to one of the worst prisons in Texas. Really? Mineral Wells are like the free world. Everything in mineral wells. Well, that's good.

Yeah. I mean, now. It's good and bad. Yeah, it's good and bad. It depends on who you are. I mean, for me, it was good, you know. Yeah. I'd rather go to a prison that's,

more dangerous with tons of drugs than be in a place where I'm getting fucking strip searched and there's no freedom. I'll take my chances with this guy who's got a knife. With this rogue situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, most definitely,

I was comfortable. Man, I was in there with my first cousin. Ironically, I was in my first cousin. And when I was telling him my mom lived with, periodically, her sister's son, my cousin, we was in the same prison. Like, man, that was, you know, it wasn't nothing good about it,

but I was happy to see him because he had more times than I did. Okay. And we hooked up in that. So when you got out, it's already getting harder to get the hydrocodone pills. So you moved on to roxies. Yeah. So tell us about the roxies.

Like, how do they differ from hydrocodone in terms of price? I think they're more expensive. And I think they are stronger? They're stronger, yeah. Okay. One roxy is three of those hydrocodone pills I'm telling you about because there's 30 milligram roxies. See what I'm saying? So technically, if we're going by the milligram,

I'm still paying the same price. Remember I was saying I was paying 10? At one point, the 10 milligrams was $3. So it's still the same except you're getting three pills and one. Right. That was it. That was the only difference. And one was oxycodone and one is hydrocodone.

Right. So what is oxycodone? I mean, the industry like to say, they like to say it's more addictive, but I think it's the same. I mean, I don't know. I think it's the same. So did Alexandria, did the, market start to shift towards the roxies?

It didn't have a choice. It wasn't enough lower sets to keep the world moving. So the dealers, the users would come to their dealers and they'd be like, man, I don't have any of those pills, but I have these roxies. I got this new shit. And you might say no, they might say no at first, but they're going to go do their Googles and check and see and come back and say, man, let me get one. And that's all it take.

And that's also coming from Houston? Yeah, that was coming from Houston, too. And then we did some working dollars on that, too. So. But majority of Houston, like, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, now, I can't say, me and my partners was the pioneers or the Roxy thing. Like, somebody else started the, the 10-millimeter-ground thing. Somebody else from Eligieg had other pioneers. But me and my partners were some of the pioneers.

Wow. From Alexander, definitely, to introduce that particular drug to that city. So you got out and you switched on. Well, I was just one to introduce them. My partners are from North Louisiana. We all moved to Houston. We're cool. We're a crew.

You know what I'm saying? We moved to Houston and woo-woo-w-w-wop. But I was the first person to tell me to bring a Roxie L, Exeter. They wasn't even mind them. I had to go to Baton Rouge with them. Was it easier to get the hydrocode? Excuse me. Was it easier to get the Roxies at this point?

Yeah. Because it was new, and you could run them people. Long as it's different people. Because now, by this time, the form is still synced. They still can see what you're doing. But it's just a new drug, and they're not hot on it. So these doctors writing it is not, the alarm's not going off at the formances. You know what I'm saying?

Is that what the hood calls or I hear rappers talk about blues? Blues, yes. Okay. When they say I got the work on the blues. Okay. Yeah. I think that was in a lot of cities. Yeah.

The Roxy's, that was when the world got in the craze. Like, I think a lot of the world missed the hydrocodone phase. But the rock, when the Roxy hit 2010, that's when you had future, Molly Perk or set. Perk, you know, they call them perks because a perkerset is oxycodone. But a 30 milligram is not technically a perk. It's just, it's a roxy. But they call anything with oxy a perk because that's the it thing that's, you know what I'm

taking a break 30. And it says thing is a perk 30. Yeah. But you would just colloquially, they're called perks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I had guys. Like you said, you said, oh, your blues.

I had guys, you know, that will buy weed from me. and they were all addicted to perks, pills. And I had no idea what the fuck they were. But I saw these guys, and I'm like, I don't want any part of that. Yeah. Because it really, it would bend you over. You'd have the gorilla on your back.

Yeah. It's definitely, I wouldn't wish it was an one worse enemy, man. I wouldn't wish that addiction on my worst enemy in real life. And now it's three times because they're three times as strong as one is like the equivalent of three hydrocodone pills. That's three times as fast. that the user's getting. Nah, that's not true because, mind you, everybody know what they could take.

So a person that can only take three pills, he only going to buy one roxy. He's not going to just, I'll say, I take three hydrocodones. I'm going to get three rockses. No, I'm going to get one roxy because it equals three hydrocodone. But maybe long term, the effect, you know, I don't know, maybe get out your system a little faster. I don't know what they got. They got a codeine, hydro, and oxy. I don't know the difference, like, in terms of the shit.

I don't know the difference. But they try to say oxycodone is a lot more harder to kick than, you know what I'm saying? Than hydrocodone. Okay. The hydrocodone is a lot more harder to kick than code in, allegedly. So how many, how many, what's the quantity like? On the roxies? I'm getting two and three thousand of them.

Okay. Yeah. Because most, the most I've got it about like 5,000 rockses. And you could make more with less as opposed to hydrocom. Yeah, I'm getting, bro, I'm then at doubling. I'm paying 10. I can't get 18. Wholesale.

Wholesale? Yeah. Okay. That's wholesale. Damn, that's good. And B.R., they get 25. I'm selling them for 18. He's selling them to 25.

And you could do that a day? That was 15 minutes. God damn. I pulled in with them pills, man, I don't, I just sit around with the, I didn't do that. That's great business. Yeah, that was great business. So you can make, yeah, you're turning around almost 10 grand profit a day.

8 times five, it's 40 racks. If I got 5,000 rocks. in 10 minutes. Now, that ain't often you're going to get 5,000, but twos and threes was my regular situation until it wasn't no more, you know what I'm saying? And how many people... For about a year,

because for about a year I had that run on the other rocks. Yeah. And then I got onto the brick train, to be for real with you. Last time I went to prison was for cocaine. So why did, why did you make the switch to Coke? That's such an old thing to do. The demand. The man was there.

Like, I did. blue. I'm taking motherfuck of some roxas and he complaining about he needed a couple of bricks and I'm already seeing where this rocksy thing going. Instead of climbing up because now everybody into the pill business now. So you'll plug on the top secret

as long as he's top secret because people at the pharmacy is going to be talking to him and woo-woo-woo-woo, you know what I'm saying? Okay, yeah, this is interesting. So it's different than a street drug. Like the problem the problem with the pill racket is that the more people

get into it, the scarcer it gets. Yes. And the higher... They push the value up. Right. Whereas the opposite, the more demand for cocaine, the lower the price is going to go, because the more supply, they're going to move across the border. Yes, sir.

Which is, it's like, there's problems with both, you know what I mean? So did you find that, like, you just couldn't get enough roxies and it was just better to just deal with the white girl? It wasn't enough. It wasn't enough of them. And then, like, I had this plane that I was selling rocks. two who say he wants some bricks. So, you know, he's getting three bricks a week.

Now, were you communicating with your father? Yeah, man, my father was talking. My father got out in 2013. Oh, because he was down for... 15 years. In the feds? In the state. Okay.

In the state, he was running with some bricks throwing him out, the window in New Orleans, ran into a family. He was the worst off in the wreck. He was in the house, and a coma for a week, and he was the worst off in the wreck. But he weighed and drug possession and all that. He went there in 15 years. So he wasn't supplying you?

No, no, no. He wasn't supplying him. Okay. Who were your connects for the blow? Age time. Mm-hmm. I got Mexican blows up. Now, the work I was getting from Mexican and shit.

And I had a couple of cool black dudes I was fucking with, you know what I'm saying? To be for real with you. What would we pay him for breaks back then? $14,000. $14,000. Yeah. Yeah. Selling them back home for.

Shit, $1,000 a clip. Yeah, man. See, that's the thing. It's not worth it. Let me tell you, let me explain something to you. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to, I don't know why. You spent 15 to make 36, and they've really 1100 out of zip. Oh, if you're busting it down, sure.

Yeah, so they buy a nine ounces at a time, 1100 a piece, and they're buying three bricks a week. Man, it's worth it. Oh, okay. I thought you were just getting a point on the brick. But my hometown is more of a plug town. When I'm getting 1100 in Shreveport, this shit going for 700 in L.E. I ain't even the fuck with that. I'm saying that. I can only make $100, $200 per zip.

Like, I'm not going to go in there, barbecue, and doing none of that. I'm the wholesale guard. Yeah. So, boom, they're paying $11 under the clip up there. Let me go up here and wheel and deal. I got the transportation. That'll make the job way easy. I don't care what drug you get.

If you can get it to where you got to go, the rest is going to do itself. So you're never really touching the shit. You're giving it to your truck driver, your 18-wheeler, and he's crossing it. Yeah. Most times he'll hand it off to somebody. I may see it when I get over there. I'm seeing it, but I'm not touching it, like, in terms of driving and then getting it off the truck all the time. So you got a lot of money.

I had a lot of money. Man, let me tell you out of the streets, man. The more money you make, the more overhead you got. You got people doing everything for you. Right. You got a person that got to meet this pack. You got a person that got to do this. The more money you make, the more your overhead is.

Sure. It was a lot of money coming in, but there was a lot of money going out as well. Not to mention you're young and you're fucking off. and you think this shit going to last forever. Right. And I dumped probably a million dollars in the music business.

I have for a million dollars in the music business. For real? Yeah. So you're still trying to make the rap thing happen? Yeah, I ain't quit rap until after I got out of prison in 2017, I say it's over it.

Wow. Where does a million dollars go? Studio time, everything of music videos, this person can promise you can get you on the radio. You're paying for everything. You're paying for game, bro. Right.

You pay for game. And most of the people, like, what I later learned, like, if I'd have spent that million in Atlanta, I would be on. But why didn't Houston knew the business like that? But back then, we had Southwest wholesale and different things. And when Southwest wholesale closed, it made the music business just null involved in Houston. It was like, even the Houston rappers went through a period

and it was like, what the fuck? Like, what we're going to do? Like, living our shows. Like, the music they put in out ain't generating nothing. Right. They're only putting out music to do some new stuff for their fans. Right, so they can go on the road, sell tickets. Between Southwest O-Sale closing and the streaming platforms coming,

it was about a four-year gap. So for four years, Houston rappers was in limbo. Right. Yeah. I feel like Houston Raps back on now a little bit? Yeah, I think so. I think it's fairly on. Yeah.

It's on, man. He got some new wave artists I tell. My boy, June, Boog, from Third Ward, little Jeremy. It's a market. Yeah. Because it's been a conversation that would actually on podcast

about Houston not having a new scene but Houston got a new scene is big X the plug is he Houston? No, he's Dallas. He's Dallas.

Okay. I feel like nobody gives a fuck about Dallas. I mean he's tight but it's Dallas isn't like a scene. Yeah, it's not a vibe. Like everybody, even Dallas come to Houston

to party and chill and kick it like they'll tell you and people that come to both of them and say, man, like I have some family come down to Houston

from Dallas and they were like man, it's different. Dallas is a lot slower because my daughter took him out of stuff and he was like man it's different Yeah Dallas is nice but it doesn't have like Houston

You say Houston And you just know what that means Yeah It's fucking sweaty Loose fast loose women Drugs drug trafficking Business The fucking white collar

White guys in cowboy hats Are dealing with the cartel buying stolen oil You know like Whatever they can buy People in Houston are so corrupt and dishonest. I know I'm generalizing, but like, you had doctors, doctors making six-figure salaries selling you $1,000 script pads. You know, like, it's hustle.

It's a hustle, and it's a culture. Let me explain that to you. A lot of street dudes open those pain management clinics. So a lot of times it would be the street guy. But it was some doctors as well. But a lot of times it would be the owner of the clinic. Doctors just keep paying him a salary. He worked for me.

of course. He may give you the pad. It may not be the actual doctor, but I have had actual doctors do under the table business. But eight times out of ten, you get cool with the person that own this clinic

who's paying that doctor's salary, the doctor's going to do what he tell him. Right. And that's what made the business go bad as well because people get cool with the owner.

So now his 10 people skipping the line. And then the doctor, you know, everybody want to get for show money. So the owner is feeling like if I get three people that bring 10 people,

that's 30 people right quick and the doctor visits up to $150 at this time so you might be making $8,000 a day a day. It's a lot of extra money. You're making $8,000 a day right quick. I'll buy just

I got a relationship with him so his 10 people get in, his 10 people get in, his 10 people get in, everybody else, get how you live. And then it got to a point to where pharmacists can only order so many pills. They got to a point to a pharmacy

couldn't order more than 5,000 pills, I think a week or a day, something like that. Whatever it was, They couldn't order more than $5,000. So that's, I was, the hydrocodone thing was way ahead of that. Them suckers can order, they can fill this room up with pills. Nobody was questioning where they're going, what you're doing with them, why are you writing so many?

But then later, when they figured out how to get into the business, they put regulations on that. Pharmacy can't order more than five, but I think it's a week. It might be a day. But if they couldn't order more than $5,000, I knew street dudes on pharmacies. Well, that's exactly what those white boys in Florida did during the OxyContin boom. They would buy the pharmacies. They would hire the doctors. And literally the same building would be the doctor's office here.

And in the back is the pharmacy. And they're just, it's a drive-through. It's just a drug dealing operation. I saw a documentary on it. I'm like, man, that is, that's, it was just, I got goosebumps watching it because that was the exact thing we was doing in Texas. It just, they were dealing in different pills at the time. We was doing the hydrocolon.

They was already on the oxen. Did you know street guys like you, like real hustlers, traffickers that opened up their own pharmacies? Yeah. A guy from my hometown, I ain't going to say his name. You know, he changed his life and stuff. But a guy from my hometown, made some millions doing that. Wow.

Did you think about doing that? I did, but I didn't. I just, nah, I did. I guess I thought about it, but I never took the time to do it. I'm already investing in this music. I got my legit thing I'm trying to do. You know what I'm saying? Even though looking in hindsight, I should have,

that should have been what I did with it, because I could have did that, I pay finance my life and I go, I ain't got to worry about taking my dope money and invest in music. This pharmacy is going to pay my bills. I can focus on rap 110%. Right. You see what I'm saying?

Well, or you could have caught a life sentence. A lot of those doctors, I mean... They just picked up a guy who wrote a million tablets in Houston last week. Google it. They just picked up a doctor. So it's still going on. Like, it's still bullshit going on. Wow.

Is that right? I was going to ask you that. So what is hot today, like in terms of the users on? on, you know, the lean opioid world. Obviously, perk 30 because they're rapping about it. You're perk 30s. Your Xanax. You're $300 ounce of syrup.

Yeah, super expensive, the syrup, right? All of it is super expensive. Right. Even the pills. Even the pills, man. I'm like $40-dollar pill, $30 milligram pill, $40, $45. When you were getting it for $1.50. No, when I was getting those for $10.

Okay, but still, that's a markup of... But, yeah. It's insane. The ones that I was getting for $1.5012 now. That's insane. Just because they're harder to get. They're harder to get. So it's become like it's still a big market,

but it's become where it's probably more difficult to traffic in volume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Unless you're a fucking doctor. Exactly. Or you're on a pharmacist. And even that can get sketchy, man. It's just, Houston is basically hot for real.

Like Houston's hot for that. If you're a crash dummy, if you're going to that business, now in 2026. You're asking for it. What about Alexandria, your hometown? What became of that market? Phenno. Methadone. Soboxer.

That's what the city is now. Yeah. It's unfortunate, man. That's unfortunate. And that's the story with all of these small and medium-sized towns. Yeah. That's the consequences from the early 2000s of just cowboy wild west, right? giving out glad bags, doctors giving out glad bags full of opioids. Yeah.

And 20 years later, you see the destruction, right? You see the destruction. It's not, it's not your growth, everything, because it's periods of these people lives where they didn't care about nothing but that drug. So guys went to sleep 20 and woke up 40 with no work history, no nothing. They've just been moving and shaking to feed that habit for the last 20 years. Yeah. And, you know, that's the part of me that disappoints me when you see the destruction and shit.

You know, like, it was going to happen regardless if I got in it or not. Like I told you, I wasn't the first and I wasn't the last and I wasn't the biggest. I was just the most consistent. But it was going to happen regardless. Yeah. But the inevitable is unfortunate, you know what I'm saying? Like, I know I just hate the fake pill game now. You know what I'm saying?

I despise a fake pill dealer. Yeah, tell us about the fake pills. Somebody just died either celebrity or he was or somebody. I don't know. Somebody died because they took a fake pill and had fentanyl in it. Oh, the guy with Gucci Man artists

took a fake pill, a big scar. That's the reason all this stuff going on with the push ice that's part of it. They felt like big scar was mistreated

when he took, when he OD and he didn't like it. So that was part of and the bad contract as well. Right. Okay, okay. So.

Mac Miller, fake pill. So they think they're taking these things called M30s, right? That's rocks the 30s that I was told you about. Right, that's what an M30 is. Got you. But it's not.

It's not, yeah. It's actually Fent. It's actually Fentonnell. Fuck. Tell us, where do these come from? Do these come from Mexico? These can't come from Mexico, Asia. They come from all over.

So it's not American dealers that are taking powder fentanyl and pressing them into fake pills. You think it's actually the cartels that are sending it up? Yeah, most definitely. That's, but my question is, do the users know they're taking? Some. Some. Hmm. A close, close family member of mine.

Took a couple. I got a couple of family members that die from fake pills, actually. That's scary. That's why I despise them because, you know, it's one thing if you know you're taking a fake pill, but if you expect to take a certain amount of milk grounds, and it's drugs. Because I know your audience might say, well, don't get out. But, I mean, people expect 30 milligrams. That's what they expect to take.

They didn't want that. So that's why I despise the guys who's fooling the public. I despise those guys. Well, do the dealers even know they have fake pills? Yeah, most of them. And they're not all of them, but most of them. I've never seen a fake pill that fool me. And they're disguised as M30s usually?

Most of them have the M30 imprint, but the color be off. They know they fake. You can look up in and now. fentanyl pill drug busts, when you look at them the color of y'all, but you got to be in that industry to know.

And most people that take them, they know. They're addicted to the shit, so they know what the real ones look like. They just, you know,

even Kodak Black said, I knew the pill was fake, but I still ate because I'm a grimmler. Nice. I'm just saying, like so, you got to,

there is a population of people that know they request them, but it's also a population of people that's dead today because they thought they was getting one thing and got something different.

What was the push-hysty, you know, he tried to kidnap Gucci Main? He kidnapped, according to Gucci. Didn't try. He did. He did. But, I mean, the guy did it in the most reckless, just torpedo, stupid way, crash dummy way. That was, that was. That was just over a contract or something?

That's what they say over. Money, contract disputes. You hear the rumors, man. with Gucci say he was there by the contract. He dropped a song yesterday talking about it. And his song, he says he was there to talk about a contract. Why was Pusha'iasty mad? I don't know.

Obviously, that contract they wanted to talk about. But I mean, listen, you sign what you sign. He might have outworked it because Pusha'iasti got a song that's close to being diamond. What you do is do is you go to the table and renegotiate. You come with a bag and money, not a pistol. That's where he went wrong. Yeah. He got out of jail saying,

Now he made $20 million, he was locked up. Well, why didn't you take a bag of money to that meeting instead of a pistol? Take that bag of money and say, hey, man, I'm one out of this contract. Or go without the bag of money and say, let's renegotiate. I've outperformed it. Right. Or catch him slipping. Not in a corporate building with cameras everywhere.

That too. You know, I don't know. There's so many different alternatives. Yeah, yeah. But there's no room for what he did. in the music business. You're not going to get away with it. No.

No. The only thing, the difference is he didn't tell the police. But he disputed that contract. And Gucci could have did that. So in my eyes, Gucci is a rat. But he wasn't wrong for ratting

because he's, you know, of age and of a certain stature. Well, he's a civilian. He's an American citizen. Yeah, but he's talking about killing people. And you come to me with that and I'm, you know. Well, he's, you know. saying that it wasn't him, it was like his handler that went and told, which I agree.

Like I would believe that. It was, you know, whoever is managing, he's at a level where he's got tons of people handling everything in the forum. Somebody is like, I'm going to run a tell. Yeah, that's definitely what happened. But it came out of he told. Like he actually made. Like when the police came, he identified him.

He identified him. And he told him what was taken from him. But I mean, listen, I'm one of those people that say, if you're holding a football, you're the football in your hand. Gucci is a, he told, but I can't say he's wrong foretelling.

That's all I'm saying. Yeah. We got, that's all I'm saying. We got to acknowledge what it is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean,

you're black and I'm white. We can't dispute those facts. He did tell the people something. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, I'm not surprised, though. Like, he's, he's come so far from the days

of the Gucci Man of old. Like, he did what most, civilians would do black or white from the hood or not from the hood everyone's like yeah I some guy fucking kidnapped me at gunpoint like as a as a citizen not as somebody living outside the law like it's my duty to be like oh yeah this is our he did it I'm a victim of crime yeah yeah you know what I mean like so clearly his mind has changed people his mindset has changed yeah definitely I'm not justifying it people have the I wouldn't snitching thing misconstrued as well when we grow up snitching one

was telling to get out of trouble. It wasn't, if somebody bring harm to you, that's cooperating. But snitching is you in a bind and you're scared and you towed. So the lines have got so misconstrued in that stuff anyway. Like I don't, I don't care about street rules.

I'm just going to do whatever it is that I'm going to do as me, Michael. I'm going to do what I'm going to do, but I don't care about what nobody else does. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like Gucci Man is no one. longer in the game. He's not putting his life on the line

with somebody else and he got jammed up and he told he's a victim of crime. Yeah. On the eyes of the law and, you know, I'm just, you get enough money, you get soft and you get in your feelings. He's like, yeah, that motherfucker did it. Fuck that guy, dude.

Somebody ran here right now and take what I got and I know them. I'm not going to. Nah, I wouldn't either. I got a reputation to uphold, dude. I'm the connect. It's not. I'm not. I'm just not going to be able to sleep good at night, bro. It's going to bother me.

You know what I'm saying? Now, that person came here and take out of my shit and shoot my daughter? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Well, now you're putting conditions on it. It's like... What I'm just saying, I'm telling you what I want to do about this jury.

But if, you know, because I kind of look my family in the face and say, you knew who it was and you're going to do what? That's clown shit. So that's why I only added that to it. But if they can't take this, I might keep it a secret and get back on my own. Right. Just keeping it real with you. Well, you caught a case eventually, and I assume somebody told, you know, like, what happened with that?

You went down for the blow. When I got caught with the work, nobody told. I just got caught with him and took a dumb ride home. Anytime I got jammed up in Texas, it was just fluke shit. Like when I got caught with the $1,000. says, I had Louisiana plates. I just got profile. Wrong place, wrong time. Right. I wasn't doing anything wrong. I thought you had a driver.

I thought you had an 18-wheeler. That's to get it for to Louisiana. I'm in Houston. Oh, you're just zipping around. Yeah, yeah. I'm in Houston. I didn't get caught on. I never got, I'm not going going to get caught on a road because I didn't do road work. Yeah. You feel me? Oh, that sucks. Yeah. And that's the same thing when I got caught to have a brick. It was like... Yeah. Oh, so it was just a half a key.

Yeah. I was going home. It was Thanksgiving. I never forget. I was going home for Thanksgiving. We were going to go to New Orleans to think out about you, classic. I was going to go home, put that on the truck, just make a quick something, because I told you I don't leave shit sitting. So whatever I could sell, I was going to sell a little half and have some extra fuck off money. They didn't need it. They ain't greeted and too comfortable. You know what I'm saying? I got motorized that by my car. I go take my jury to get clean and my wife's stuff cleaned up. And on my way home, I got to pass through kind of a ghetto area.

And I just got bored over. And I forgot I had to have it. I got the shit on that. In there with me. I'm like, man, I'm good. I'm like, oh. I got 18 ounces on it, actually. I got 18. 1,000 ounces of working out.

And the motherfuckers did a break dance when they found it. 2015, 11, 2015, March 6th, I got out 2017. So you went in when? March 6, 2015. I got out March 31st, 2017. Oh, okay. So just a nice. Did a cat now.

Yeah, two on five. Yeah, that's still a short time. Yeah. I'm blessed, man. That's what I'm saying. Like, to make the money I've made, to see the things I've seen, to never have been robbed, on robbed. I've never been armed.

I have people out front of things to when they didn't pay. A dude jumped out of the back seat with $30,000 one time, but I've never been, give me that. Because I was one of those dudes. I was a young, dumb, stupid person that wouldn't go. And, you know, it was a time when I would say, I ain't given them my jury, but now, man, I get this stuff up because I can replace it.

But 15 years ago, you weren't rob and jugging taking my stuff. But it was an idiotic way of thinking. Yeah, but money was coming to you so easily. It's like you didn't really have a reason. It was just about being a bitch. Yeah. Of course. But I'm saying you were just dealing with players, man.

So everything went smooth. Yeah, I dealt with who I wanted to. I'm not dealing with no jack boys. You know who the jack boys are. Of course you can become a victim of circumstance. Man, I'm blessed not to be followed from the club, man. When I tell you, we did it at a high level, man. I used to go in a regular club and throw money.

I didn't throw money in the strip clubs because everybody's doing it. So I'm going to Roxy in Aishtown. Okay, that's a hot club? Yeah, Roxy was a Wednesday night. It was a bad motherfucker. And I go in Roxy, man. I get 500 ones.

I go give me 500 ones, and I just, one fish in the head and just, I'm advertising, rap. It worked. You know what I'm saying? What was the purpose? To get on in music. Okay.

So when you're going to the club, you throw money. It's just to get noticed. You got to get noticed in music. Your image and all that shit is everything in music. You know what I'm saying? Dude, I said this to somebody the other day. I'm like being a rapper is like being an actor.

Definitely. Definitely. I could see that. Being a rapper is being an actor to a degree, but it's also being a hardworking actor. Definitely. At this time, it was a point in time when Jeezzy fucked the game up. And I don't mean fucked it up literally like,

but you really had to be living. what she was rapping. We used to brag about, I ain't seen a rap check yet, but I got on $100,000 a hour for jury. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it was dead, man. Your image was everything. You had to be out popping your shit

for people to take you serious. And it gets you in a lot of doors, man. A lot of rappers are Dick Riders. I met everybody. Everybody. Because they want to know, who is this guy without his jury and I'm looking like me and I don't know who he is.

You feel me? I swear to God. So who? Everybody. DJ, Cal, French Montana, Rick Ross, Floyd. I mean, well, you name them out of the metal. Real talk, because money's going to hang with money is. You feel me, when you get the money, you're going to be with the money.

We have Memorial Day weekend for all, I mean, Memorial Day weekend in Miami. You're an All-Star. I got married to All-Star. So, man, my wife would go every year. Everywhere in the All-Star game went, we there. Yeah. And you're just seeing people in there. Now you're familiar.

You see them once, twice. Before you know it, you're familiar with them. I almost had a deal with DJ Caller until I got caught with their work. I mean, until I got caught with them pills. He was courted me. I was going to pay him to, host the mixtape. Boom, he heard a particular song on that.

And I like that, bro, I'm going to work with you. Scrap the money. So now we're working together. And then I get jammed up. And when I get jammed up, a couple of his other artists end up getting the other blowing up. Because the music business don't wait on you. Ace Hood.

Yeah, I remember. Ace Hood. He had a guy named Nino Brown was signed to him. And Caller was putting out albums himself. But Ace Hood was the main artist. I think that Ace Hood situation was supposed to be like, me and my partner, Jets. Well, that's the fine line.

You know, like when Jay-Z was hustling in the streets, he flew to London to record, I think, like, I think maybe dead presidents part one or something. It was one of his early singles. And for some reason, the producer was in London. And while he was in London, his partner got arrested with the work and went off and did like 15 years. And Jay-Z, if he had been there, he would have been there, yeah, that's right, Emery E. And so it's like one of those, it's just fate, you know. And also, I think most rappers to really make it, you've got to put the drugs down. It's not, life doesn't work like that.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Like, you can't just go from being a millionaire drug dealer to just smooth up. Now I'm a platinum rapper. Like you have to bet on yourself and put the drugs away. And you know, you know, it's even stories that Jesus wouldn't have made that. prior to rap. So I'm saying once in a lifetime, but I don't think it has happened. No. I mean, look at 50 Cent had to get shot, almost shot to death before he just...

Before he gets a big break. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So do you feel... Flip told me in 1990. Little Flip told me in 1980. He said, man, you're not going to be able to rap and sell dope.

And I'm like, bro, what are you talking about? Because all the rappers I looked up to, little Kiki, big pokey, everybody from the screwed up click. I'm like, they hustle, right? And he'd be like, man, just you ain't going to be able to rap and sell dope. And come to find out a lot of dudes didn't. They hustled, but they wasn't like the songs made a sign. You know what I'm saying?

I'm living like my songs sound for real. And I'm like, I meet people and I'm up more than them. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. They're rapping about your life. To a degree, yeah. They're exaggerating. Yeah, from the stuff I heard and what I know like back then, yeah, it wasn't, it was just rap.

And, you know, I'm thinking everybody, I'm thinking everybody rich. You know what I'm saying? So what are you doing now? I own the drive trucks. Right. Yeah. Oh, I own the drive trucks. I got a clothing line.

This is my brand right. That's fucking cool. W.D.H. Apparel. Yeah, that's awesome. I got a podcast. I got two podcasts, actually. One on WDH TV on YouTube and another one on AVG TV, which is called The Blockers Hot. I got a cold with that one.

And that's what I'm doing, man. Yeah. I'm serving these looks. I'm serving drip. And I'm getting freight moves. Yeah. Keeping the world moving, man. Yeah, how is moving freight?

I'm fascinated by that. I want to have a freight business. I love it, right. Which I know is a weird transition. Podcast or did freight. Listen. But I love logistics. My runner didn't run for me because he had to.

He did it because he was my friend. But I used to always look at his life and say, if I got to get a job again, that's what I want to do. Because he didn't have money problems. He had other problems, no money problem. Truckers get paid pretty good, bro. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, if you own, you got to own your shit. Especially, you know, you can get paid either way. I know guys making $3,000 a week that's drive for companies. I know guys make $3,500 a week on their own truck. So it could be, what would you rather, make $3,500 in you own your truck or make $3,000? And somebody else got to worry about all over the way, overhead and stuff. You see what I'm saying? So it just depends, you know, but I know guys make $8 a grant a week, too.

Right. But they're over the road and different things. Yeah, yeah. So for somebody that's, I think this is a good thing to talk about right now, now because it's you know we've talked to guys that got out of long long prison stretches and they started you know long haul trucking excuse me uh like car hauling businesses uh what is like an 18 wheelers do you have an 18 wheeler business okay so then how does that work how do you make money how do you make money from that do you get paid per item that you are carrying

you get paid by the load you find you a dispatch or a broker booked a freight it might pay just say I get something coming from Houston to Austin. I might pay $1,100. Get that come here, get my broker. When I'm on the way you tell you the broker your dispatcher, I ain't find me something coming back. When you get to Austin, you may get something, and you may have to drive 50 miles outside of Austin

to find your load back. And you might make another $6,700 on that. And you get paid right away? With factoring companies, yes. You can get paid as fast as 24 hours. Okay. You deliver the load, you send your BOL, that is sign and seal to deliver it,

and you have your money in 24 hours. hours. And they charge you 3% for that. But they're waiting. They could wait a month on that invoice. They can wait. They got 90 days to pay. But most people pay invoices by the end of the month. So you can have your own business. You can have your own factory. You can start a factor on business. I'm going to make 3%. I'll just go. I'm going to pay you and wait on my money. There you go. And you have a felony, obviously. Felons can do it. Exactly. And that's one thing I like. It's great for people of reentry. This is one of the few businesses that don't destroy. discriminate on your background, your ethnic race, none of that stuff.

It's one of the few businesses that does that. And it's one of the few businesses that you can invest in yourself and make a profit within its first three months. Yeah. There's not too many businesses. Like the average businesses take three to five years to see a real profit. Yeah. I don't mean pay your bills at home.

I'm talking about a real profit. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever been offered, you got any guys from the old neighborhood that say, hey, we want to take this package to Houston? plain jokingly yeah people but they don't they don't fucking with me like that

they didn't know they didn't that ain't having them I just read a I just read this headline it was some Chinese guy from Houston he owned like all the logistics from A to Z he owned

the trucks owned the logistics and the dispatch and had all his runners and he was bringing in a lot of meth a lot of meth it's all the

The truck driver, I've learned from talking to, like, actual cartel guys to from DEA agents. The guys making the most money in the cartel or the drug business now. It's the transport guys. And those are guys who own the trucking company. So it's a lot of Indian dudes. Again, Chinese guys, you know. I was blessed to have free wheel at a truck. I didn't have to buy a fuel, didn't have to pay maintenance.

I was just blessed to have a guy to drove for a good company. And back then it wasn't no ELDs. Like now they can track everything. Back then, everything was paper log. Right. So he can manipulate the log and do what he got to do to get me what I needed by the time I needed it. And they're not being like, well, why you pass home up to go to Houston? You feel me?

He might be coming from Pennsylvania and he coming to Houston then going home to Park his truck. Right, right. But it wasn't no ELD back then to track all of that stuff. Right. Now you probably couldn't get away with that. You can't get away with that. So they can see where your truck goes? Yeah, yeah.

Truck and company can see everywhere. where it goes. Okay. So you have to, that's why you got to own the trucking company. If you're doing some dirt, you got to own that bitch. And you still got a, you still got checks and balances if you own it. Who do you have to report to if you own a trucking company? DLT. I mean, if you know, which is the Department of Transportation. Yeah, you just don't want your trucks to get caught with bad logs. Like it opened a door for searches and seizures. Investigations. They know, you know what I'm saying? But most times, like, they're going to be some rat shit. They get you caught, man. Right. I mean, look, it's just a cat and mouse game. They can't get

all of it and you can't get away with it forever. Hello. There we go. Such is life, dude. It's all going to end. It's all going to end. Hey man, well, this was a lot of fun. Thank you for coming through. Appreciate you for having, man. Shout out your podcast one more time. And yeah, where can we get a fucking Texas made joint, bro? That's tight as fine.

It's cut off. It looks like good quality. Cropped, yeah. Just follow me on Instagram at Jug, WDH. Hit me in a DM and get you some apparel. my podcast is WDH TV on YouTube, WDH space TV, and we rock and rolling, man. Yeah, you're Houston. I got 30 million views. I had a couple of videos go viral. We're working, man, 13, 14,000 subscribers.

Hell yeah. Let's do it. We'll link to that in the description. You know, you're from Louisiana, but you're Houston cat, in my opinion, man. Shout out Houston, dude. I love it down there. If you met somebody else from Alexandria, you would say that about it's all one big family. You know what I'm saying?

Country cousins, dude. Yeah, but I've been in Houston longer than I lived in Alexander. That's your adopted home. I didn't cross over to a point where I've been in Texas longer now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, man. Well, hey, Jugg, thanks for coming through. Appreciate it, Johnny.

All right, you guys. We'll see you next time. Peace.