The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - How A Domestic Abuse Victim Took The Law Into Her Own Hands

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

In this powerful episode, we dive deep into the harrowing yet inspiring story of Gemma Smith, a survivor of domestic abuse who took drastic action to escape her abuser. Growing up in Northern England amidst a backdrop of addiction, violence, and neglect, Gemma’s life was marked by challenges from an early age. Her story takes a dramatic turn as she confronts an abusive partner, faces the legal system, and navigates life in prison—all while fighting to keep her child by her side. Today, Gemma is a survivor and an advocate, using her voice to shine a light on the realities of domestic abuse and systemic failures that victims often endure. Tune in as she shares her journey of resilience, recovery, and hope. Go Support Gemma! IG: https://www.instagram.com/bipolarmumjourney/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There's a dark side to England. I was so used to just being the daughter of a junkie. I was quite used to everybody just kind of throwing me away. We would be in this room filled with the, you know, the crack fumes. So we would be getting high. I really was desperate for a small bit of attention. I ended up getting with him. And it was probably the worst decision I could have made.

Gemma Smith comes from wretched conditions. She was born to teen parents in a drug-infested community in Northern England and watched her father go back and forth to. prison throughout her childhood. Then when she was in her early 20s, like many traumatized young women, she found herself in an abusive relationship. Finally, one night, she'd had it. Fearing for her life, she took a knife out and stabbed her boyfriend repeatedly, nearly killing him. What follows is her journey through the legal system, fighting her case and the abuse she suffered every step of the way, from the courts to prison, the halfway houses. Today, Gemma has made a full recovery and lives

with her husband and their two kids in Southern England. She speaks out for survivors of domestic abuse by sharing her story on platforms like ours. And we're very grateful to have spoken to her. Make sure to follow her on Instagram. And for more content, go over to patreon.com slash the Connect show. This is a dark one, you guys, but Gemma's resilience is incredible and her story is important.

Without further ado, I give you Gemma Smith right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. It was okay at first. And then I moved into a house share with him And he became really violent and volatile He would smash up the place He's grabbed me from the back of the head He's pulled me onto the floor And he's just kicking me and kicking me and kicking me

I just picked up the knife That's when I see lights behind the start to flash And I didn't even think I just hit it I was driving like my life depended on And I parked the car, popped out Close the door and I started running And he pulls out a burner shank It's like six inches

And he passes it to me And he goes here, that's yours Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I made it out of a place alive. England, it's really a tale of two England's. Yeah. Most people don't know the real England. I haven't really met any middle class people from England since I've been here. Oh, you haven't. I bet Posh, Chelsea, Knightsbridge, erudite, you know, millionaires, you know, that speak the Queen's English. Yeah. And then you, which is not even the same English. No, it's a different language practically.

It is a different language. Yeah. Can you want to do? understand me though? I can't, of course. Okay, that's. Okay. You would be considered like, you would, you're from northern England? Yeah, northern England. Yeah.

So we're the bottom of the barrel. Yeah. We're the scruffs. Is that what they consider you? Yes. Working class. Working class. Yeah.

Miners. Do you have, really coal mining? Yeah. Well, not anymore, but way back. Yeah. We were like the mining districts of the country. Yeah. So literally that would be West Virginia if it was America.

Yeah. And now, just like Northern England, West Virginia is ravaged by social problems. Yeah. Fetanol, heroin, opioids. Yes. And I think now in England it's all of, maybe it's not opioids, but it's Coke and crack. It's heroin, yeah.

Really? Yeah, heroin and crack, yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's just, it's, there's a lot to unpack. Yeah. So just start from the beginning. Start from the beginning.

Hold on to your fucking hats, dude. Okay. Pour yourself a glass of water. You know. Or wine. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not mess about.

Um, so. I was a result of a teen pregnancy. My mum was 17 and my dad was 16. So naturally, I was unwanted. I think my mum tried to look after me for around six months. My mum had been in an orphanage herself. And she was adopted by this older lady that couldn't have kids because her partner was,

well, whatever the word is. Sterell. That's the one. And because this woman had seen me be born, she had this weird connection with me as if she'd give birth to me herself because she hadn't give birth so she'd finally seen somebody give birth

and she was like, oh, I'll have this little baby, this new little toy. So she was in my mum's ear saying, you know, oh, maybe you can't look after her, blah, blah, blah, blah, making my mum feel inadequate. So eventually I think it was probably about five, six months that my mum gave me away

and was like, okay, you know, I can't look after her. So then there, I was a shiny new toy for my grandma who I, call her my grandma, even though we're not blood-related. Correct. And then my mom had a couple of boyfriends in the process. And then she met my stepdad, moved to Manchester, England in 1987. Start messing around with heroin and crack.

Well, I don't think the crack came into it at first. It was more heroin. And then they started running for a gang that had ties. It was either the quality street gang or they had ties with the quality street gang, which was a large gang in London at the time, in Ancoops, I think it is. How do you like white people, it's shocking to Americans that like white people could roll with gangs. Yeah.

Okay. Like I'm not saying white people aren't criminals. Yeah. But we associate gangs with like either Mexican drug cartels or like black street gangs. I'm just going to keep a real with you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So what is a British gang? How does that, how do two parents, if you want to call them that? Yeah. How do they roll with a gang? Is this weird to me? So they were bottom of the chain in this gang. So they were just drug runners. But the gang members in that used to come to the house,

I mean, they were all white. There was like the top of the chain, who he'd be in his Ralph, you know, or he'd be in his Fred, what we were Fred Perry up north. And then they would just be in tracksuit. So just white, kind of chavish, mancunians. You all right, me. You know, that kind of, yeah.

Okay. So they were track suit, British whites. Yeah. I'm trying to paint a picture for our audience. Yeah, okay. This is what like white British gang members looked like back in the 80s. Track suits. Yeah, and it was 80s, very early 90s.

So it was all oversized, Umbro, Reebok. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so kind of like Italians back in the day. Yeah. And Sergio Taccini. Yeah.

And those kind of brands. So yeah. Okay. Got it. All right. So just a good old fucking, a nice stew of white trash. Okay. Okay, yeah.

Perfect. What about it like that? Oh, it sounds embarrassing. So, yeah, so they would go and pick up the substance. Drugs. Can I say that? Yeah, but say, everybody is explicit as you want. Okay, okay, so we're not going to put your foot around the terminology.

Okay, so they were going to pick up their drugs, and then they would sell drugs, and then they would have all these different characters coming in, and I just found it, you know, a child would usually find that quite scary or intimidating, but I found it really interesting, because we would have characters come around, and one had had his nose bitten off.

So he was called Gary No-Nose, and he would sit and tell us how he had his nose bit off in a fight. And I think it was like the spinning wheel pub or something like that. So we'd all sit there, me and my sister, this is. We'd all sit there and listen to him. Then there was one guy that had his ear bitten off,

so we'd listen to his story. Then there was another guy that turned up in Bermuda shorts, and everyone would call him Bermuda shorts, Dave or whatever. There were so many characters, and I heard so many stories. And I found it because Monday to Friday, I was raised with my grandma,

but on the weekends, I would go to Manchester to my mum's and then I'd be subjected to this like underworld of, you know, there'd be these big gangsters coming around and they would even sit, I wouldn't think that the top gangsters would take drugs, but they did even dabble in it.

It was just that era of time where everybody was dabbling in heroin because it was quite new and all the rest of it. And where are we going now? There was one time there was a taxer knocking about. So a taxer is somebody that waits for somebody to make a purchase of, their drugs and then weights around the corner and then takes the drugs off them.

Yeah. And so we will, well, my parents were losing custom. So then my mom put her Levi's jeans on me, put a big machete down the back of my trousers, tied my, the jeans up with a tight belt, sent me out with my stepdad to look for this taxer because she was like, you better go and sort this tax route, give him a good hiding or more. How old are you? Seven or eight. And you've got a machete down my trousers?

Yeah. So we went out, we went under the subway. I wasn't scared at all because I thought, well, I've got the machete so I'm safe. And I knew my dad was unhinged, my stepdad. So I didn't feel unsafe at all. And we went under the subway. There was all this blood there.

There was like blood clots in it because it was all congealed. And he was, I must have been worried. I don't remember feeling worried. But he said to me, my stepdad is like, oh, you know, it's fine. It's fine. Come on, come on. And, you know, we didn't find this taxi. We went home.

And then he was saying to me, the blood would have just been from a dog. It wouldn't be, you know, no one's been murdered, etc and so on. We would have CCTV because of obviously dealing and stuff. And then my mum started getting on the crack. Psychosis kicked in. She thought my dad was cheating on her with prostitutes.

So she would sit me in front of the CCTV for hours on and going, can you hear them coming to the door? So her psychosis is then going going into my brain. at like nine years old and I'm sitting. I don't want to think that my stepdad's doing that, but my mum was so distraught about it. I had to help her out and sometimes I would hear people come, but would say, oh no, I can't hear it.

You know, I can't hear it to put her mind at rest. So that was another situation. My sister and I, because somewhere in the process, my mum had her baby with my stepdad, we would be in this room filled with the, you know, the crack fumes. So we would be getting high. she would be, it sent her mental so she would chase me around

somewhere along the line they'd got older this old police cosh or a baton. She would chase me around with this big steel baton. What was getting high second hand smoke from crack smoke like well you did feel you just felt alert and

yeah just alert yeah it's not a good way to put a kid to bed no well I don't remember sleeping very much that's for sure they never put you to there was no bedtime there was no No, not really. Is there any of the structure? No, there was no structure.

There was no structure. Then there was this one guy. He'd had a fit. He was obviously epileptic and then he'd had like a hit of heroin. Kicked over it because, you know, when you put your drugs out, you know, it's all there to be weighed up. He's kicked the table over. The drugs were all over the floor. This one guy, this raster guy was going, get a spoon.

He's going to swallow his tongue. They're trying to put the spoon in the guy that's fit in his mouth to stop him from swallowing his tongue. It was just chaos. It was absolute chaos. My dad was there trying to scrape off his heroin off the floor. But there is, you know, I don't want people to think, oh, they were really bad parents. I know it sounds. They were really bad parents.

I know, but I loved him. Yeah, of course. It brings a bit of a tear to me out of it, but they struggled. Yeah. Did you find that fun? Did you find that adventurous as a child, having a machete down your pants? Yeah, yeah. That sounds fun.

Yeah. Because you don't know what consequences are. No, you don't. at that age. So it's like you're playing war. Yeah. Like our little boys play with fake guns. Yeah.

It is. It was. It was just opposed to the structured life I had with my grandma where I did. It was quite a middle class life. I had, I did piano, dance class. I was enrolled in beauty pageants. I played violin. So I had this really structured life that was, you know, quite boring.

I was just, she was living through me. And then I would go to Manchester where there was this complete underworld of all this crazy stuff. and I just really found it intriguing. I don't think it did anything to my, good, to my brain. But yeah, I wasn't scared. I wasn't scared at all. They would never let anything bad happen to us.

I don't know, though, but a lot of bads did happen, right? Yeah, I guess, yeah. Don't you think you blame your grandma at all? Because you really had a chance. Yeah. If you would just, you probably, I know you loved your parents, but I don't, I think talking to people, I think the social services in Britain

take kids away from their parents. parents way too easily. Yes. But I think in this situation, like, your grandma probably should have got full custody. Yeah. I know I'm not the judge and jury. No. But if, you know, maybe, I don't know.

I don't know. It's strange, isn't it? Because it's only now that I'm talking out because I haven't spoken out about any of this. These are family secrets that I'm not supposed to be telling. Right. But they're all dead now. So, you know, I'm coming out with it. Hmm. Who's dead?

All my parents. Sorry. What happened to them? Memorial Day weekend is all. Almost here, and it's time to kick off summer right. When I'm getting ready for the first big weekend of summer, Total Wine and More is my go-to, especially when I'm firing up the grill with family.

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Drink responsibly must be 21. Drugs. Yeah. What was, what is it about those kind of places, those ancillary, like, you know, tertiary places, right? Like Manchester or West Virginia or so many places in America, right? Yeah. We call them flyover states. You fly over them from L.A. to New York.

Yeah. And there's just like a whole bastion of society. society that you almost never hear about them just like kind of rotting in this like cycle of like poverty drugs causing more poverty and then abuse yeah which causes drug abuse right like what is it about not having a job or what yeah like take poverty what is it about poverty that makes people want to do drugs I've always wondered about that yeah because when I was poor. I was like, well, I sold drugs to make money, but I was like the last thing I got to do is like, make drugs. That's going to, that's cost money. Yeah. And it's going to hold me back.

Yeah. I think it all bows down to trauma. It's what trauma you went through as a child. So my mum's, her trauma was, she was in an orphanage till she was two years old. She didn't know who she was. Then she was adopted into a family that weren't so great. She watched her dad die of cancer and she watched his deterioration, which was really, really bad. The woman that adopted her was mean and would make nasty comments about my mom. And there was an abuse scandal in that family as well. I mean, my granddad's dead and I can't, I don't want to speak about it in case it isn't true. I don't want to tarnish his name because he was in the Navy.

He was a stand-up guy, but I mean, I know that doesn't mean anything in this day and age. So for her, that was her trauma. For my stepdad, it was the rape. Can I say that? Okay, rape essay and brutal murder of his sister where she refused this boy's advances at school disco. Wow. And my stepdad was supposed to walk home and he didn't.

She then walked home alone and this guy that she refused his advance had followed her home to near this castle or industrial plot. Raped her. Yeah. And then beat her badly. She was still alive. so he set her on fire when she was still alive and stamped on her face to cover up her identity.

So then my dad had to live with that, my stepdad had to live without for the rest of his life. And then as from my bio dad, he was, his real dad was abusive. Then he lost a baby to SIDS, caught death. And I think it is just all, it's trauma that really triggers these addictions. I think, you know, well, in my parents' case, but I can't. But then again, you get silver spoon people, don't you, that are born with a silver spoon in the mouth, and they still go and dabble. So I don't know,

but in my parents' case, it was the trauma. So, and they weren't poor because they were selling. So they were making lots of money, but the more money they made, the more stuff they talk and,

you know, yeah. That makes total sense. Yeah. It makes total sense. And maybe rich kids trauma, even though there's levels to trauma, you know,

a problem's a problem, I guess, right? It is, it is. That's it. It's just different trauma. Yeah. And yeah, the abuse we've been learning about

since we've been in England, whoa. Yeah. Whoa. There needs to be a real change in England when it comes to like what happens to those boys and those, you know, boys' homes and the elite schools. And I mean, it's like we used to make, like, we make fun of like shitty countries for doing that shit. I'm talking about like rape, raping each other, sodomizing boys and pedophilia.

We make fun of like Afghanistan for that. Yeah. Yeah. We associate Britain, like the second superpower in the world with that. And we're concealing it all. Right, exactly. And America's a little, I think you guys are a little more proper and you kind of have this veneer of respectability where Americans would just let it all out.

Yeah. Yeah. So that makes total sense. Okay. So you're going along. When does like the party start to unravel for your parents, so to speak? Yes. You know, drug dealing and all that shit.

So my stepdad was in and out of strange ways for supply. And then my mom got gang raped by a rival gang from Mosside, which is another part of Manchester. She used to get a guy from upstairs, a little gay lad. She used to get him to come and, you know, keep her company why my dad was in prison. Right. He was there on the night that it happened. They've gang assayed him as well as her.

She couldn't go to the police because she's in gangland. you keep your mouth shut. So then she's had to live with that. Then my dad's come out of prison and it's just their, her drug use just got really, really bad. Then they got in debt. Then they went on the run.

And then I didn't see or hear or go and visit them for like six months because I didn't know where they were. Right. And then another couple that used to go all the way to Manchester because you know what it's like in certain parts of the country? You can't get drug, hard drugs. You have to travel out. So people would travel to Manchester

from the sleepy town that I was brought up in. to get their drugs. Anyway, they came to my grandmas and said, your stepdad's been shot in the face. Your mum's on the, is a prostitute to fund what habit they've got and what debt they've got. So I went to high school and I was like,

this has happened. My teacher was like, is she making this up? Like, this can't really happen. So then he's had to ring my grandma to check that what I'm saying is true. He's rang all the hospitals in Manchester to see if somebody's been shot in the face.

And then, obviously, because of gangland territory, you can't even go to the hospital. so he's had to patch up his head where because it wasn't like directly it was from underneath the balcony so it's just skimmed him so it was like it just like blew his head a bit like open

so he's had to patch that up and then we got a phone call one Christmas and it was my mum saying you know we need to come to Derbyshire and my mum was like yeah of course get the train we'll meet at the train station blah blah she they have come back and then in the process

I've got a flat from the government and then this gangster's turned up on the doorstep. He's come into my grandma's hat. Well, I've let him in as a little girl because my grandma ran a guest house, so I thought it was a guest. So I've let him here, and he's borged all the way into the house,

and he said, where's so-and-so, my step-dad, he owes us money. I'm his probation. No, no, he said, I'm his probation worker first. And my dad was like, my grandma was like, no, probation workers don't just come in. And then he was like, he owes me this much money, because I think he thought that my grandma would give it to him. But my grandma was quite stern.

And she's like, she knew how to talk him down and not give him any money, obviously. And then he looked at me and he was like, tell your dad, he's a very lucky man. So that was an incident. And yeah, it was just kind of, I was excited by my mum's lifestyle still because it just continued, but in a different place.

So I was about 14, 50 at this point. So I thought, do I want to live with my grandma, going to church, doing violin, doing all this structured life? Or do I want to go where it's exciting? It's all these young boys coming over. that are, you know, taking drugs. And they were really good-looking lads. Like it seemed at the time that all the good-looking boys were on heroin.

So, of course, I wanted to be... I know it sounds bad, doesn't it? So I wanted to be there. I was like, oh, all these boys come around. It's really exciting, doesn't it? All these boys on heroin. That's like, that hasn't been said in America since the 40s. Yeah, yeah.

Well, that's how bad, yeah, dated it is where I grew up. Right. So this is the 1990s or maybe even the 2000s. Yeah, it was like the 2000s, I think, the very early 2000s. thousand just about yeah so people are looking at 16 year olds are looking at heroin like it's like this we call it heroin chic yeah like it's this fly thing to do yeah like Amy white house chic yeah yeah so that's how I saw it yeah wow there was something about heroin users that I found really attractive

so why it just must have been the circle so why everybody else was fancy and take that I was like oh no just show me the local junkie please yeah I love a man with a running nose yeah and a gaunt face so um yeah So I moved in with her, but then my life just deteriorated. So I was doing really well in school. All my friends were middle class and churchgoers and stuff. And I just started to lose all my good friends because their parents didn't want them to hang around with me. So are you living with your mom now?

Yeah. So I'm living with my woman like 14 and 50. No, she's moved to Derbyshire at this point. Yeah. So I moved in with her. And then I started dabbling with speed, ecstasy, alcohol, stopped going to school, and then they put me in a, like, a provisional college so that I could pick my grades back up, go back to school to get my, do my exams so that I could get to

college. So in the process of all that, I did manage to get to college. But then at 17 years old, it just all went down ill again because, well, that's when I was at the party. And do you want me to go into that now. Oh yeah, please. So I was 17 years old, life had picked back up. I was in college. I was doing a childcare course and I had an apprenticeship as a teaching assistant for children with adapted needs. And that's where I wanted to go in my life. That's what I wanted to do. I was at a party with friends. And as you know, I don't know what it's like in America, but you get those older people that hang around with the kids. I heard terminology, Peter Pan syndrome. Right. Yeah. So this woman wanted to come and she had all the supply.

and then this one friend said to me, oh, you know, could you go because this woman wants to come and she's got all the supplies? So I was like, oh, right, well, great. But yeah, I'll just go because I just know, like I was so used to just being the daughter of a junkie. I was quite used to everybody just kind of throwing me away.

So I've gone out the bed sit. I've gone to cross the road because I thought, I'm going to go to my grandmas because it's closer. So I just started walking along and then this guy has approached me and he's like, talk. in broken English and I don't know what you're saying, saying something about a lighter, sorry, he really like sends me back. Every time I think it's going to get easier talking about and it doesn't.

Take all the time you need. And he says something polite. I just said I don't smoke, you know, even though I did, I was like, oh, I don't smoke. I tried to scurry off. And then he just grabbed me and he can still smell his jacket. He's like on this brown leather jacket on and he just grabs me. And then I don't even know whether there's something I come from.

and he'd just come out of nowhere, another guy. And then it's not, it dragged me back over the road, and I thought it was a prank, because they were going back to where they would just come from the party. And they weren't a prank. And they took me in, like, another set of bed seats, which are, like, apartments. And they just dragged me upstairs, up these two flights of stairs,

and I just didn't, because it sounded so quiet, I didn't know anyone was there, I just, I was just so much shock. I just didn't know what to do. And they took me into this room. And then just, there was an adjoining room and loads of other guys have come and they're all talking in the mother. Sorry. And the two of them have helped me down and they've all just took it in turns.

And I just thought I'm going to die. You know, I was thinking, what can I do? Just think your ex-boyfriend. So I was just closing my eyes. Just thinking of my ex-boyfriend. And then they've let me get dressed and I was just so relieved. This one guy, the main guy,

is just marching me down the stairs by my collar and he pushes me out of the door. But there was this guy from one of the other rooms, he'd come out in the process and then pushing me down and I just thought, in for the noon, you know, Woody had screamed, I don't know. And they've told him to go in the room, they've just shooed him in.

And he's gone back in because there was loads of them. And only one, like, one of him, he's the guy, the main guy's got me still. He's pushed me out the door, but I was out. I was like, I was out then. Sorry, I'm so sorry. No, you don't have to be sorry at all. And I just thought, oh my God, you know, I just, I was out. And I was walking up the road, well, I was like running up the road.

And the next thing I just had this car pulling up. And he was like, rum, rum, revving up. And I thought, not again. And he's going, get in. Get in. And I just thought, what do I do? So I just start screaming and I'm running. Just running home.

I don't even know how I got home. I just... I just... Sorry, it's just in my head. I'm just there again, you know? And I got home and I just stripped off, and I just wanted to forget it. So I stripped off all my clothes.

I got in the shower, and I had a wash, and I was just like, just go to bed, and just forget about how it just forget it ever happened. And then I woke up in the morning, My little mom was there. My little mom, and I know, like, you're going to think she was a bad person, but she did have my back. Even though everything she'd been through and everything she's objected and just too, I can trust her, you know? And she was like, what's wrong, Gemmy, you're not yourself?

And she just knew, and I said, I've been raped. And she was like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, I'm sure. She was about here. I said her to know. And that was it. She just got the police. Sorry.

Did the police were they able to do anything? So they came at the interrogated me, which they have to because there is, I know people don't like hearing this, but girls lie all the time. They stitch guys up all the time in revenge or they want attention, you know. People don't like hearing it, but they do do it. Sure. So they've interrogated me one time and another time, and then because there's no discrepancies in the story.

They believe you. Yeah, they believe me. Sorry. and um they've gone but by this time they've gone they've gone they've left

were you able to identify them like did you did you know did you recognize any of them from the party no I didn't know they weren't at the party that I was at

they were just random people in a different I don't I don't know where they come from they were just they were just there it's like

one minute they weren't there they were there it was anyway and then they've gone to the bedstimble, they've absconded. So there's the proof, you know, that people don't just run away when they haven't done anything.

But then they came back and interrogated me again. There was DNA. I had to go to a safe house and they had to test me. So all the DNA was there. That was just a brutal process because it was just like everything. Oh, I can't imagine. It's so invasive. It's so.

Yeah, because. it was horrifying. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was,

it was, it was, sorry, I've never said that before, but it was both areas. Mm-hmm.

So they had to check it it for, cut some stuff. They got the, they had the DNA then, and then also that one of them

had the decency to actually use something that was in the bin as well. So they had all the evidence there,

but some of them had a database and some Some of them didn't. So we had like a crime program in the UK called Crime Watch. So they were able to get some of their faces on there. And it was a big investigation. And then everybody turned on me for it.

Called me, racial slurs, called me a liar. Yeah, all my friends, people in the town. It was just, yeah, everybody turned on me for it. Who were these men? The men that did it. Yeah. They were from the Middle East. I don't know who they were.

They were just guys from the Middle East. Well, did it ever go to court? Did you identify them? So it was on the crime show. They managed to get, I don't think they got all of them, but they got the majority of them. One of them was very high up, high status in his country. He had ties, like royal ties. So he'd written a letter, but not only explaining so much,

not enough to incriminate in to say that they need a really good barrister at this situation. So they had the letter, they had the DNA, they had the fact they'd absconded, they had everything. I took, they made, I did the line up. I couldn't go in in the end because it was too horrendous. So I did it on a video. They showed me the video. So they got a load of it and then they said to me, you know, we're going to take it to court. Can you stand up in court rather than there was an option of doing a video link?

and I said I wanted to do the video, sorry, sorry. And I said, I wanted to do the video link because it would have been just a lot easier. But they said, no, come on, it's really going to take effect and we're going to nail these guys, just stand up and use the curtain. And then they just, I made a joke because one of their barristers with interrogating me

and they said, did he have, one of them was bald with hair? And I said, how can you be bald with hair? And then all the jury laughed and that's, you went against me. So they all, because I made the jury laugh, that went against me. And it was just, it's, it was just a horrendous. So they just got away with it. That was it. I went through all the court process, went through all taking them.

I just did my best that they got away with it. Makes me angry. Yeah. Because I was only a kid. I was 17 years old and to stand there. in front of a jury and say everything that they did to me and then to still be called a liar so how many of these men were involved in the case

there was six in total but I don't think they got them all yeah everybody got off wow so you can't return to this town I mean and you have people calling you racist they call me racist racial slurs for it wow are these other are these white Brits are these or these. That called me names for it. Yeah. Yeah.

It was all my white counterparts. Yeah. I mean, nobody would, nobody would think like, nobody would, in my view in America, would mistake like small town British folks for being like woke or like really like psychotically like anti-racist. But I mean, I've never heard anything like this before. This is really, this makes America look tame when it comes to that.

That's really sickening. Yeah, we've got a huge racist problem in the UK. When you say a racist problem, what do you mean? Well, I mean, there is a lot of racism. People don't want to admit, but there is a lot of racism. And people that I thought were supporting me are the people that are now going out in the streets, say, make England great, but where were you? When it happened to me?

Right. You want to go and fight for a cause and follow these. I don't know if you could call them extremists. I mean, I understand why they're speaking up against these grooming gangs because these grooming gangs are at play. Right. But then where were you when I needed you? You know, you can't fight for a cause one minute,

but then call me racial slurs for it happening. Yeah. It's just very hypocritical. Sure. And it just upsets me. And then people want to use my story now as to push an agenda without any regard to my mental health. I have a brother and sister who are Muslim.

Oh, wow. Yeah, half brother and sister who are half Moroccan, half white English and they're Muslim. So I'm not anti-Muslim. And I'm not racist. You know, I've lived in London. You're right. And anybody, it's all very well these little small towns

going out, pleading, make England great again. But unless you've lived in London, you know, you just haven't got a clue. It's just such a small, narrow-minded way of thinking. And like I said, I understand what some of these groups are saying, you know, we need to get these grooming gangs under control. And they do. But the message, they've got the message,

are pushing the message so wrong. Well, the point is race should have nothing to do with identifying people that have committed a heinous crime against you. It has nothing to do except. Yeah, categorizing people and identifying the guilty people. Yeah. That's literally all it is. Yeah.

It's like if I was just beat up and assaulted by a guy who happened to be black, I have to say a black guy assaulted me. What do you want me to do? Yeah. It's treating people like children. Yeah. You know what I mean? Everybody's just become like a child.

Yeah. Yeah. You know? And it's so sad that these guys got off. I mean, you know, I hope they're, God has horrible things planned for them. But I'm sure they will. I actually really, as I get older, I really see, I believe in karma.

I really, I know it's real. Yeah, that's why I'm not worried. And the only thing I hold in my head is by me having the courage, because it took a lot of courage to go to the police. That I have stopped them from doing it to somebody else, or at least, you know, thinking twice about it. Right. And I want them to know that they haven't broke me as well.

I mean, yes, I'm upset talking about it because I instantly go back to that place. No, they haven't, they haven't broken you. I can tell. Yeah. Were you able to like go to like, what good are all these gangs if you can't like, you know, protect somebody in the community? Yeah. So with regards to my mom's gang, my stepdad was, I think he was even in prison at that

point and she didn't have any gang ties. She got clean. She was living a different life while she was drinking a little bit. So I didn't have any backup. My mum couldn't do anything. Her backup was marching me to the police station, making sure, you know, everything went as it did. And I didn't have any other backup than that.

All my friends dropped me. The only person not to drop me was my job. But then I, that's when my criminality came into play then because I just felt like damaged goods. So then I'd got into a fight in a pizza parlor, stupidly through a milkshop shake bottle. It's hit a bullet. in the head.

He, instead of accepting my apology, which you think a normal person would, took it to the police, there was my first battery charge, right? So that was my first violent charge. Yeah. So then I've had to drop my college course because I can't work with kids

because I've got a violent charge. I've had to pick up a new course, which was business. And then nobody wanted to touch me because I was, again, damaged goods. Right. So the only boy to show me attention was this creepy little creep

who, you know, was pestering me and pestering me, and I kept saying no, my mum was like, no, he's no good for you. And he kept coming to the house, and my mum would chew him away, and then he called my mum derogatory names. And she's like, he's no good, he's no good. But it comes to the point where nobody else was interested.

I really was desperate for a small bit of attention. Yeah. So I ended up getting with him. And it was probably the worst decision I could have made. So then he was, he was okay at first. And then I moved into a house share with him. and he became really violent and volatile, and he would smash up the place.

And I was also mildly, you know, volatile as well, so I wouldn't back down. I'd be like, yeah, come on then, what? You want to go for it? And then he had an argument with the boy I went to school with, then he took two kitchen knives out. He would have gone to try and stab this guy. I don't know if he would actually do it,

but he took the knives out anyway to bravado, you know. The police have got called. The police have come. They found these knives. they've nicked him and nicked me because he wouldn't take the blame. So there you go. Bang, I'm in the nick again, in the police station again. And I've got possession of offensive weapon charge.

For the knives? For the knives. And they didn't even find me with the knives. The knives were in the drawer, two knives. It would put them in an empty drawer. So none of us had the knives, but they've done us for possession of offensive weapon. Then he's telling the police officers, I want to kill you. So then that's threats to kill.

So that was another charge. then there was a it was just it was so toxic this is an upside down world you're living in in Britain yeah

you can gang rape someone and get off and blame the victim gets blamed and the community turns on her thank you but you have a kitchen knife

which I think we have everybody has that in their apartments and that's a charge yeah and that's a charge it's surreal this is a sick place this is a sick place

I can't wait to go home to America tomorrow yeah I'm telling you, I'm telling you, it's backwards. You know, I was just thinking, like, all this, like, knife crime. Yeah. Like, getting stabbed to death, it's got to be one of the worst ways to go.

You know, everybody makes a, everybody talks about how bad America is. We're having all these guns. At least we don't have, at least we don't have all this knife crime. Yeah. That's the one thing. Yeah. It's like, how do you even classify somebody? Like, clearly you can say a gun is a deadly weapon.

Yeah. You don't need it to make food. No. In your kitchen. No. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, it's, there's something very weird happens when you don't allow citizens to have guns.

I don't know. It's a trade off because obviously we have school shootings. Yeah. We have high homicide rates. Yeah. So maybe it just looks crazy in a country like England that's supposed to have civility. America is supposed to be bloody, lawless, unthinking, savage, harsh punishment. But England is supposed to have.

have civilization. You guys made civilization. So I think hearing these stories, it's just, I mean. Yeah, it's eye opening, isn't it? It's eye opening. That's why a lot of people are interested in the story because nobody's really talking out from my kind of perspective. I've got so many angles, you know, to show that, yeah,

England isn't that great. Yeah, there's some great things about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. But, yeah. There is a dark side to England. For sure. Yeah, there's a dark side to England. And the criminal justice system is,

a complete mess. Yes. Yes. That's right. Yeah. Just like the system of like, I hate using wokeness because I'm not like a right winger. No. Those guys have like beat it to death.

But it's a good word to categorize it. Yeah. Like the, I don't know what you call it like over liberalization. Yeah. Like toxic racism. I think wokeness is actually racism. Yes. Because if you hate on white people and just you use call them racist as a way to cut them down.

Yeah. It's kind of like being racist. Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, so yeah, I can tell this toxic boy, this things are not headed for a good end here. It wasn't heading for a good angle. And I was... You're still in the same town?

Still in the same town. I've got a lovely little job, an assistant manager of a lovely little coffee shop. And he would constantly phone my work. He would follow me home from work. One time I wanted to go to the pub with two friends. I don't know how. He must have followed me. He's dragged me out of the pub, told me I can't drink my friends.

somewhere along the line. I have got pregnant with him. Stupid decision, but I just wanted this little life, oh, sorry, I just wanted this little lie for myself. So I, yeah, got pregnant. When I was giving birth, he was in my ear going, oh, you're, because I had my mum there,

I had him there and my sister, and he was like, your mum's taking over. I'm giving birth at this point. There's a 27-hour labour. The baby's still not out. He's going, your mum's taking over. I'm trying to console my mum, trying to make sure he doesn't,

kick off. My sister's crying. They've had to cut me to get the baby out because I'm just a tiny little 19 year old. The baby's dead because he was in distress. They've got him back to life. They've got him back to life though. Don't worry. So I'm going through all that. And then after they all

went, the nurses were so lovely to me. And it was like, that was probably the first time I never felt proper love without ulterior motive or without toxicity. It was probably one of the most special moments of my life. They were so lovely to me. I'd never come across somebody like that.

They were telling me how to feed the baby. And it was just really lovely. And I didn't want him to pick me up. I didn't want him to pick me up. But he did. And then we took the baby home. And he'd gone off somewhere with some girls. And I was saying,

oh, I'm going to put all water on your clothes. I'm going to put bleach on him. Because I was angry. You know, and just give birth. So I'm saying, I'm going to bleach your clothes. You know, you don't come. back he'd come back and he just grabbed hold of me threw me on the bed and I'd just changed the baby I'd just finished changing the baby and he squashed me the baby threw me on top of

the baby the baby's only two weeks old then he's pulled me back off he's picked up the baby shoved me into the little downstairs bathroom and he's like come here baby uh you know mummy's a monster mummy's a nightmare you know blame me for his it was just constant torture and then we moved to a different house and he would just stop beating me and I'd wake up in the night and he would be S-A.

and me, you know, without my consent and I didn't know because he's my boyfriend, I thought, oh, you know, it's normal, you know. And it was just, he's just horrible, but he was just horrible. And then obviously the beating started. And then he moved me out of district away from my mother.

And he just got worse. And I was out with him on a night out. I think he's somebody babysit my little boy. We were out for drinks and dinner. And he's just grabbed me back the back of the head. Just unexpected I was on the fence. He's grabbed me from the back of the head. He's pulled me onto the floor and he's just kicking me and kicking me and kicking me.

And then a previous night before what happened, before the crime, He had grabbed my hair, wrapped my hair around his arm, and was just opening the kitchen, covered onto my head. And I'd split my lapar, blood all over the kitchen. I rang the police and the police come up. You know, he would just make me drop the charges every time and just get in my ear and drop the charges. Is that how the prosecutions of domestic violence work?

The other, the party that's victimized has to choose to prosecute? him for them to prosecute? I think it's changed now. I think it's changed now. I'm not entirely sure because this is so many years ago, but it's, if the victim dropped the charges, yeah, that was the end of it. But I think now, depending on how many times, the police will say, no, I think they'll take it forward. I think so. I'm not, I can't be 100%. And then we'd, in the process of all of this, I would make friends with a couple of another couple of people, they had a baby, we went out, we'd gone to the zoo and they'd seen that I had black eyes and some bruising. And, sorry, because I'm just getting to the point.

This guy had said to me, he's like, oh, did he do that to you? And I was like, yeah. But then another night, my friend said to me, oh, let's go for drinks. And I said, I'm not going to be able to go for drinks. Like, we can't. And she's like, I would just say we're going to the super. to get like a bottle of vodka or something. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to say that.

So I said to my party, oh, can we, you know, can I go to the supermarket? And he was like, yeah, we'll just be, don't belong. So we've gone. And then she's made me go to the pub. And when you're in the pub, you know, 20 minutes. It's not 20 minutes, is it? Yeah. And then he's come out looking for me, come find me because he thought I was at the supermarket.

He's got a super. And then the other guys come out and look for us. Then there was, he's, he's, I've ended up coming back. He's come out. now she's had to go at him, smacked him around the face, said, we know you hit your missis, your wife or girlfriend, whatever. Then she started hitting him. He started pushing her.

The other guy started hitting him. And it was just chaos. So I've just walked in to my flat. I don't even know what was thinking. I was like, I need to just get out of this situation. Because I thought, if he gets up from this, he's going to kill me. I've walked into the flat, and then there's a knife on the floor. And I'm like, what the hell?

and just, I just picked it up. I just picked up the knife, and I thought that's it, it's him or me. So I've just gone out, and I've just started stabbing him. And I've stabbed my friend in the process on his hand. Sorry, I'm just shaking because it's, I mean, to stab somebody. No, it's okay. I can't imagine.

So is he on the floor, your partner when you stabbing him? He was against like a fence bit, so not really on the floor, but against a fence bit, and I'm just stabbing him. And then he's like got up and got away from the whole situation. He's ran to a local bar thing. It's a working men's club, you call it. And then my friend's hand is all gaping open. He's ran into the flat, my friend.

I don't even know what I was even doing. I think I put the knife in the sink from what I can remember. Then the next thing I know, just on, police are there with they're like, I don't know if it's an AR-15. And they've gone, get on there, finger round. So I'm there just I put my hands behind my head and our children were, well, my child was asleep on the sofa

when all this was going off. And then he's woken up and see me on the floor with my hands behind my head and this police officer with the gun I've looked forward, I've seen him. And then I've seen my friend sitting on the bed with his hand all gave open and I'm just, what have you done?

You're stupid. because I've just ruined that boy's life and I should have got him out you know and I did there wasn't time when I tried to get him out I went to a woman's refuge but my ex-up partner was in my head going you know and the hostel wasn't that great

so I didn't try to get him out but then I went back you know and I just I hate myself for the situation but I don't feel remorse for stabbing him and maybe that's you know that's why they've diagnosed me as a sociopath now i mean i don't know he definitely deserved it uh because you know that can turn into that could turn into femicide homicide very quickly you know that guy's definitely was

capable of killing you so did you take it to trial so i was um arrested on attempted murder because they didn't know you know it was he he went to surgery we didn't know if he was going to be alive or not so the rest of me on tempted murder and then i went to the police station they'd strip me of my clothes and put me in like a boiler suit you know took my clothes for forensic and i was sitting there and i don't i don't remember feeling bad about it i don't i know that sounds really awful but i just remember i just thought is he going to die is it going to be murder or is it going to be you know i don't know uh okay yeah let me just recap this i want to make sure i understood so he

he starts to, he gets in a fight with the other, your couple friends that are there. Yeah. And the guy hits your ex and calls him like a woman beater. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then so there's a scuffle. Yeah.

She's getting hit too. Yeah. Yeah. Pushed and hit. Okay. So there's three of them. Yeah. And you stab.

And then thinking that after they leave, after all of this, you know, finally calms down, yeah. It's just going to be you and your psycho ex. Yeah. Yeah. in the house. Yeah. And I mean, he beats you for less.

Yeah. Far less, right? Yeah. So now he's really going to probably try to put you in the hospital or kill you. Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm. That makes sense.

Yeah. So, yeah, then what happens? So you find out how you find out he doesn't die. Yeah. So I found out he doesn't die. And then the police are mocking me because they're bringing all the sergeants that are coming in for duty that day. And they're opening the flap of this cell door saying,

Oh, look at her, look at her charge, but I wouldn't melt because she's got the face of an angel, but then I've got this attempted murder charge on the thing on the wall to say what your charge is in there for. So they're mocking me. And I just thought, you know what, I'm just going to go guilty. I've done it. I've just going to go guilty. And then the solicitor managed to get hold of me and she said, if you go guilty, they're going to slap you with the eight-year sentence because they're not going to go into the mitigating factors.

They're just going to slam you with the biggest sentence. So go no comment. So I was like, okay, I'll go no. comment. I'll do what you say. So I went no comment. They put me, they let me out on bail. I went back to the flat and I thought, well, I don't even know what I thought was going to be there. Where's your child? Yeah. I did think, you know, is my child going to be there? I knew really deep down that they weren't, you know, he wasn't going to be there. And I've gone in, the forensics have been and then there was all blood all over the flat. It was like a murder scene and there was these little green

arrows where they had to, you know, pinpoint where the blood splatters are and whose blood was what. and I just sat there and I was just like what have you I just thought what have you done like you've ruined everything and then the night after I took an overdose because I didn't have my son or anything like that and then I was on the phone to my auntie when I did it

it was probably a cry for help I probably you know just wanted a bit of attention I don't know why I did it she's rang the ambulance the ambulance come get into the fire raid have come kick the door off to whisk me to hospital I was fine in the end

you know that was a whole experience and then I was on bail then and then that's where it just became even more crazy because I got into a turbulent relationship with another guy which was all, you know, rosy. He wasn't abusive or anything like that. He was quite a nice relationship considering. I was known in the area as the local stabber

so I couldn't get a job. And then one day I was just walking up my street from the supermarket and this guy came and he was like wearing a big long trench Ralph Lauren jacket like Gucci shoes and he whistled me and said, sweetheart, come here. So I've gone over and he's like, oh, are you that girl that stabbed her partner

or stab somebody, whatever? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, oh, he goes, I've got enough proposition for you. And I was like, oh, I'm not a contract, you know, killer or anything. It was domestic. I'm making a joke with this guy.

And he's like, no, you know, I need somebody like you and meet me in this pub in 20 minutes, right? So I'm, he's like, get suited and booted. So I thought, right, I've got to make a good impression here. Because no one is hiring me. And if this is an opportunity, right? I've got to give it my best shot.

So I've got in and got what might me interview outfit on. I've been going to all these local coffee shops in. And I'm like, right, okay, okay. I'm walking in the pub. I've sat down. There's a load of money. Well, I say a load of money. It's like 200 quid or maybe there was a bit more.

I can't really remember how much it was. And he was like, he pushed it over. And he was like, oh, that's for you. That's for turning up. And I was like, okay. And he goes to me, we were just chit-chat in. And he was asking me a little bit about my past and stuff. And then he was like, oh, what do you know about cooking books?

so I'm like, I've had to style it out because I'm thinking I can't look like a fool here, right? And I'm thinking he means Gordon Ramsey or something like that. So I've gone, oh, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. He's gone right, here, take this, blah, blah, blah, I'll ring you in so many days, whatever, whatever, right? I've got home with this money. My boyfriend is thinking, well, he's accusing me of all sorts.

He's like a fully grown man doesn't just give you money. What have you done for it? Thinking I've done, God knows what. And then he's rang me up. He's like, right, I need you to come to this village bank with me, blah, blah, blah. So I've gone to this village bank with him. He has gone to the counter. Sorry, he's gone to the counter,

asked for a substantial amount of money. The next thing I go, the alarms are going off, shutters going down. The bank manager's come out to see what's going on and everything. And the bank manager said to him, I've told you you can't have any more money

out of this account until I've seen your books. So then I've had a lightball moment and he's like, oh, he wants me to fraud his books. I'm then arguing with this gangster going, I do not know what you want from me. but I cannot be in this situation. I'm already looking at eight years for GBAH within tent. So we're arguing that was a whole situation.

We've managed to come out of that situation fine. He even got the money in the end because it was his account, but I don't know if you were supposed to have an appointment for that amount of money or the woman on the counter's panicked and pressed something. I don't know what happened. It was just an absolute mental madness, right? So anyway, that's all happened. I did a bit more business for him.

I didn't cook his books, but I did do some PA work for him and things like that. So that was a situation. Then I got pregnant. I'm asking the solicitor, you know, can I have my baby in prison or do I have to have an abortion? She's like, no, there's mother and baby units. So I was like, oh, great. Okay, so I can have my baby. Are you?

Is this England or Ireland? How many babies are you having? So this is my second baby by now. I don't know. It sounds horrendous. How old are you? How are you? 22.

So it sounds horrendous, right? Okay. So, okay. Okay. Okay. hang on, hang on. So how long are you out on remand fighting this case? So I was on bail.

No, I get them mixed up all the time remand and bail. So I was on bail for eight months. Okay. And then... Did you have a lawyer? Yeah, I had a lawyer. And she said to me, it's going to be easier for you to keep your baby or get your a place on the mother baby.

If you give birth in prison rather than give birth on the out and trying to get the baby in. Right. So I said, right, okay, I'm going to remand myself. So I went to court and I said to the judge. I want to remind myself, get the bull moving. So he said, yeah, that's fine. And then I was in prison pregnant. And my first night in prison was,

I wasn't scared or anything because my dad had already been in and out of prison. I'd already gone on visits where he's had his head kicked in with, you know, like a bed ball. They've ripped the bed bars off and smashed him up. Because in there, there was rival gangs. So he's coming and he's own money and blah, blah, blah. So he's had his head kicked in. His dreadlocks ripped out.

So I've already had a taste of the prison system. and it sounds really bad, but he always kind of knew in the back of my mind that there's a possibility I might go there. So I was already kind of mentally prepared for it. I've gone there.

My first night, they put me in healthcare. I couldn't flush the toilet. So I was letting that pile up with urine because I couldn't flush it because it was so old and rusty, this metal hole in the wall. So then they've put me in with a cell mate.

She's taught me how to flush the toilet. So that was my first prison hack. I used a pen. They didn't know I was classed as a prolific violent offender. So all these little charges that had happened with my ex had all added up

and added up and added up where it was kind of like a guilty by association. It was always him getting done for it, but dragging me with him. So then I was classed as a prolific violent offender under a scheme called Mappatoo where you are a danger to the public,

a danger to your cellmates, a danger to the prison system. So really by rights, you should be in a single cell on your own. So as soon as they knew that that was my status, they quickly got this cell woman out, they were like, sellmate out.

They were like, get her out quick before this mad woman kills her or whatever. And then I couldn't have any visits with my sister because she was under 18. So that was, that's when I really knew, oh my gosh, this is really going to affect me my whole life now. And yeah, I was in there. Does you have respect? Like, in a woman's prison, you know, like in men's prisons, you know, if you've committed like a high level crime, you're like a bank robber or if you're, you murdered someone. somebody, you know, in the right way, of course. You can't, like, murder a spouse and get respect.

But if you've murdered, like, a rival, you've got stripes. You have respect, right? And is it the same in a woman's prison? Like, she stabbed her fucking man. Yeah. Good for you, girl. Get over here. Let me break your hair.

Yeah, yeah. No, it really wasn't. It really wasn't like a song to burst of bubble. Yeah, no, it was, I think there was the silent respect, but nobody really licked your ass in there. You know, I think everybody knew, don't mess with her. Yeah. And yeah, so that was my first night.

And then they moved me over to the wings. And then I was in there with, um, Rekha Kamari Baker. There was a lady that she'd stabbed her two children to death. Oh. There was the blue leg, yeah, cow. So she took her, um, her daughters to even buy the kitchen knives. And then took them home.

And when they were sleeping, stabbed her. I think it was like 68 times between the two. And it was all in revenge to get back at a husband because they'd split and split up. And there was an occasion where she, come to my job placement within the prison system. And I had a bio in my hand. And honest to God, I wanted to stick it straight through her eye. And I know that sounds horrendous.

And it's like pot kettle because I'm in there for stabbing someone. But it was a reactive abuse situation. You know, it's years of ongoing abuse. Why I flicked. I was just a woman that snapped. But she snapped on her children. Well, you know, that's unforgivable. So I told her she better get away from the desk and never come up for an appointment

ever again because I didn't want to see her in the prison. So that got me a little bit of respect. There was the Blue Lagoon murderers. And they'd tortured this. guy who was autistic, severely autistic. They'd held him hostage. They had tortured him horrifically. Then cut him up and I think they cut him up and dumped his body in a big Blue Lagoon.

So then they were branded the Blue Lagoon murderers. They were in there. There was so many women that snapped in my case, a woman who snaps, but they'd like killed their perpetrator. And I was there. I remember going to court to get my sentence. And my friend was in this holding cell. and I showed her my baby

because I'd had my baby at this point and I was like, oh, you know, she's like, oh, what did you get? And I was like two and a half years and I didn't want to tell her because I knew that she was going to get longer and in the process of waiting for my paperwork, she'd come out and been sentenced

and I said, oh, how long did you get? And she was like 14 years. And I was like, oh, my gosh. For what? For killing somebody? For killing her perpetrator, her abusive partner. And I just thought that could have been me. I was so lucky he didn't die.

Yeah. You know, even though I know it sounds bad, but if he had died, he wouldn't have gone on to abuse the several women that he's on he's got a restraining order on him to this day. Wow. He's listed under Claire's law. He's just recently beat his most recent ex up and now she's lost her children because

of him. So he's still doing all this carry on all the years down the line. What do you think, where do you think that comes from? Well, I think against child or trauma. Right. And I don't want to make excuses for people that commit domestic violence. No, but you're explaining it. Yeah, but it comes from trauma.

he was from a broken home. There was toxicity with his stepdad where they'd abused a child and the child had been taken off them. So that leads you to think, well, did they abuse him? Yeah, did he ever tell you that? No, he didn't tell me anything like that. I couldn't say, but I just knew he was very troubled.

And I'm not making excuses for him because I do not like the guy. But again, it all stems from somewhere. This toxic behavior stems from somewhere. This is why more men need to talk out. we need to knit this in the bud before it gets to this destructive behavior and violence.

You had your baby while you were waiting to get sentenced. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a baby on a man, but then there was a... Rock and roll. Yeah, kind of. So in the process of all of this, there was a shady, sorry,

I'll keep rocking the mic, there was a prison officer that came to the wing that I was on the normal wing where the house pregnant inmates, vulnerable inmates, privileged inmates, and child abusers. Don't ask me why they put child abusers on there,

but they did. And he came over and I was like, oh, well, you're here for me about my place because I'm eager to know if I'm getting my mother and baby place. And he was like, no, I'm not. So I was like, well, that was rude. So I've seen the ESO from the mother and baby unit and I said, oh, you can tell that greasy, whatever, you know,

like, don't need to be so rude. I can't remember exactly what I said. Romanian. Huh? Greasy Romanian. Oh, okay. I don't know. I'm just guessing like an effort group that's big in England. Oh, right.

No, no, no. He was white English. Oh, okay. But he was just a grease monkey. Right. So he then really didn't, sorry. The ESO relayed the comment to this prison officer and said, oh, she said, you look greasy. So he was really angry at me because he was obviously narcissistic.

So you know if you trigger a narcissist, that's it. they're gunning for you. So he tried to stop my place on the mother and baby unit. He said I was a violent offender. Yeah, I was a violent offender. And maybe I, you know, I shouldn't have been on there. They had to safeguard. But he did everything he possibly could to stop my placement. Anyway, I managed to get my placement. Then the first night of me getting on the mother and baby unit, he swung my door open, even though I was breastfeeding my baby. And he was like, oh my God, this is the last thing I need. And I was like, right, okay, fight off. flight mode, right? Survival mode.

I goes, oh, I didn't mean it like that. I meant it as in, oh, yeah, greasy, it's a cool word, like, you're cool, you know what I mean? So then he's took a shine to me then, and he's like, oh, she thinks I'm cool. And I'm like, oh, no. He has then took it upon himself to move me cells. So I was in a cell, a large cell

across the way from the office, right? He's waiting to all the other staff are off and he's going to move me. I don't know what excuse he used, but he's moved me out of the eyes view of the other offices. Then he starts coming to my cell, coming to myself, just filling me with like, he's like, just conversations that you shouldn't be having with me, you know,

just trying to like, lure me in. So I was like, where the hell are we going with this? And then one day he's just coming myself, grabbed hold of me, starts kissing me. I'm just like, oh, you know, just frozen. But what can I do? I can't fight and I can't, who's going to believe me? Who is going to believe me when I've already got a rape case on my file?

You know, all this is on my big fight, right? And I thought, if I say anything, he's going to spin it around on me and get me, need on for it. I need to keep my place on the mother and baby unit. Yeah. Where is the baby, does the baby stay in the cell? In the cell. Yeah. Wow. The baby lives in your cell. But the only thing

different than a normal wing is you've got your own like a separate toilet and that the doors are open. So they're open 24-7. So if there's any problem with the baby, you can get out. They don't lock you in. That's the only difference. And the room's a bit bigger and there's a cot in there. Right. But now this creep can fucking come in whenever he wants. Whenever the hell he wants. And I'm out of the view of the other officers.

So he, well, one thing led to another and he was just at his way with me then. And what can I do? You know, he's coerced me into this intimacy. Sex. Yes,

the text, sorry, yeah. And he is then taking my, so in America you'd call it commissary, wouldn't you? And we would call it canteen. So I would get, you know,

you know, it's like a privilege item. Yeah. You've got to make it last. He's coming in, taking it, drinking my drinks, taking my snacks. He's, one day he said there was a bomb scare, grabbed me and my little friend off the wing and grabbed us in the cell, said, there's a big bomb scare. Everybody's got to stay down.

It was all a fabricated drama. He's mental, honestly mental, right? Then he'd come in and say, oh, I read your post last night. And I'm sitting there thinking, who did a write to you last night? Oh, my God, what did I say? What did I say? And then I've had to time it on a day where he isn't in to write to my boyfriend and so that he doesn't get jealous.

And then he read my mail one day and said to me, oh, why don't you ever mention me in your mail? So then I'm like, oh, my gosh. So then I've got write a letter to my friend in another jail that's been shipped out. And I say to her, oh, there's this officer on the wing. He's really cool and he's really nice. And so that he gets an ego boost, right? It's just mental torture for me.

Wow. And you're just trying to placate him until you can get sentenced and get shipped out. So I can just get out. Yeah. So, and then. Did you go? Why did she think about going to? like a sergeant or a higher up.

No, because the, we call it an ESO, so he's the higher up sergeant on the wing. He was just the same. He was just a knock. Power hungry, thought he was the bees knees. If I had gone to him, he'd have gone, that's your fault. And I'd have got an extra charge. My baby would have got taken off me. I just didn't want to risk it.

My main priority was keeping my baby with me. So I didn't, I just let it, had to let it play out. And then in England, if you've got a low enough sentence, you can get a really, on electronic tag for good behavior but naturally I was a good prisoner so he has rang my probation worker told them I don't want my early release

that's what this guy that's what the guy did oh my God yeah so luckily my probation worker was a woman and I'm not saying a member stupid right but if a manager you know might not have picked up on that and she was like she pressed for my electronic tag

my early release she was like no who doesn't want that with a baby yeah so I've got it I've got it out and I didn't even tell my probation worker at first because I just left it. I just wanted to forget it, right? Because I thought, I've already been through an essay case where I didn't, I wasn't believe, so I'm not going to take another one to the police, right? He has then turned, they put me in a hostel.

He has turned up at the hostel in the place where I'm living. And I've said, you can't be here. And he's like, if I go, you're never going to see me again. I was like, yeah, mate, please, just go. You know, I've just had enough, just go, man. He's ended up going. I think he's at, like, something's twigged. And he's thought, oh, actually, what am I doing here?

And he's gone. And then the probation work said, I just want to one of my probation meetings because I had to go weekly because I was on license obviously and she said oh I just want to pick some up with you I had a really strange phone call from this prison officer and he said

you didn't want you early release and I was like oh gosh yeah and then it all came out and I goes there's a possibility I could be pregnant she was like I knew it she goes I just knew it like I had a feeling so she's marched me to the police station

but this was at the time when the London rights were on so the police had shot this guy in the face who had supposedly had a gun and it turned out he didn't have a gun So, again, the CJS. With the CJS? By the criminal justice system, letting everybody down, you know, shooting people willy-nilly. By the way, though, I got to say, after interviewing all these gangsters from Britain talking about how many people they've stabbed to death, if I was a cop in London, I would shoot the fuck out of somebody that had a knife.

Duh. Yeah. Like, why don't these cats carry guns? Yeah. The police should not be equal to the citizens. Yeah. They should be more well-armed. Yeah.

Am I wrong? And I'm not a snitch. I've been to prison. I'm a po-cop. Yeah. But isn't it just like, why are cops in Britain scared to go into the ghettos of Birmingham where everybody just doesn't really have any real weapons?

Yeah. Yeah. I get what you say. They need to start shooting some of these motherfuckers. I'm going to put that on record. I'm to kind of just kidding. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I'm very anti-CJS and I'm very anti-Plee. so we're going to have a difference of opinion on this. But yes, should they be... I'm just... There's a happy medium. America goes too far towards punishment. Yeah. And society's kind of like Britain and Europe

are too lenient, in my opinion. So we can't seem to hit like a nice middle ground, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is nice, though, because if you stab the shit out of your boyfriend that absolutely deserves it, you're probably going to get out pretty quick. So that's the cool part.

Yeah. So give and take. So God bless the queen. King. The king. I'm sorry. She's my queen, okay? If you like the king, fine.

But I like the queen. Yeah. Okay, so there's London riots going on. Yeah, that's it. Right. Okay, yeah. So London riots is going on and he's sidetracked. He said to me, was it rape?

I've said, well, no, it was like coercion, you know, because I can't really say, you know, I've been raped. So, no, it weren't rape. But it was like coercion and whatever, seedy way of going about it. And he's like, right, okay, well, we're going to log it. Anyway, this guy's got sacked, but still getting paid why they looked into it and the rest of it. And then my boyfriend and his family didn't want to have the disgrace of my name being, my name being dragged through the papers with this prison officer scandal. Right.

So I refuse to go, well, I'd just say, can you proceed? in my absence and they did. So then he was able to, and I'll blame myself for it because I should have turned up to court and I didn't, so I blame myself for it. He was then able to switch it all around onto me, said, I seduced him.

I told him we were soulmates and all this rubbish and said it was just a sexual act when it was, and it was full intimacy on regular occasions. But it's my own fault. Of course he's going to say that, isn't he, to get the lowest possible? And then he was, they let him off.

You can read the, I'll pinger the news article in a bit. And it's they let him off on the basis that he was a upstanding member of society that he did anti-crime talks in high schools around young girls. Well, how does that work? A sexual predator like that. And then you want to let him off. It's backwards. So the system's backwards. But again, I should have turned up to court and pressed my side of things. So now as this is getting adjudicated, you're out on electronic release. Right. So did you ever actually go to prison? Yeah, so. How long were you?

Oh, I was in prison. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We call it, there's a distinction in America. You go to jail first. That's when you get arrested. You go to jail. Yeah. They hold you, or unless you bail out.

But if you don't, they hold you there. Yeah. Prison is the where you go to serve your prison sentence. Yeah, so this is the confusion. So did you get, did you actually do time after your set on the two and a half years they gave you? Yeah. So we called jail and prison the same thing in England. and that's the confusion.

We'll just call the police station. So you would call, we will call the police, you would call the police station jail, and we'll just call it the nick. Right. So, right. So, yeah, so that's where, so I was in the nick when I got charged.

Yeah. But then I was spent a whole year in prison. Right. Right. Okay. And then you're on electronic. And then I was on electronic tag for four months. And then the rest of it was just licensed where you have to go to probation

and under all the things that they put me on. Okay. as a prolific violent offender under the map too. You are a prolific violent offender. I'm classed as that still to this day. So now I'm on my, because that should have been my third strike for violence, right? Or for violent crime.

So I should have been IPPed. I think they've squashed that now, but I nearly got lifed off for that incident. Wow. Incident. So I would still be in prison to this day because it's a rolling sentence, you know, where you go for your parole,

and then it gets denied. Go for parole, get denied. So luckily I didn't get IPPed. and I think having that hanging over my head has kept me out of trouble so it was a good thing yeah and that's it then so then I'm out of prison

but I gave birth in prison so that was a whole process you have to get handcuffed to a prison officer go to the hospital and then when they know you're going into labour then they can uncuff you then you're on a bed

you've got two prison officers at either side and then push push get it out bitch So, no, and then eventually they've gone behind the curtain. And, yeah, so I gave birth with two prison officers in tow. And that was a...

That baby is going to be one funny person. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're going to have character, you know? No, he hasn't. He's a right, posh snob. Yeah. That means you made it, though.

Yeah. Good. He's a total snob. And I said to him, because he wants to be, I don't know if it's a chiropractor or something. I don't even know what it is. because I'm bloody not the sharpest tool in the box. Anyway, he wants to do something really good. And I said, oh, imagine the story.

Imagine saying I was born in prison. He's like, I never tell anybody that story. And I was like, oh, why? It's a really great story. So no, he's a total snob. He hasn't got much character. He's just got a really nice life. So yeah, yeah.

So which one do you want, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like, you rebel. We rebel against our parents. Yeah. Because my life wasn't posh growing up. up, but it was comfy. Okay.

You know what I mean? Yeah. What else is on this goddamn list? Yeah, what's on the list? I don't know. I mean, oh, well, I mean, I had this. You really turned out well. Yeah, well, a steroid boyfriend at 16.

Should we go into that for a little minute? Not bothered about him? Yeah. I mean, it kind of pales the comparison to what came after. No, I'm just, I'm just kind of soaking it all in because, you know, it's really what do you think the key was like how many years did it take you to because this was in your early 20s when this was all going on right yeah yeah so did you stay with your your baby daddy are you still with him to this day so the guy that you had the kid with while you were in prison yeah so we are together we've been together 15 years on and off you know it's not been all rainbows and cupcakes but we have got through everything and we've got three children together so we are together now we've got a lovely house he's a plasterer um yeah and it's just you know um um really lovely life, but it's really boring sometimes. Does, do you miss the excitement of the old days?

And my mum was exactly the same. So we've just lost my mum to, we think it was an intentional overdose. And she just couldn't get out of that mindset of gang land. You know, she would watch programs to try and get that kick again. And she was with a really nice guy, a lovely house, you know, no mortgage, mortgage free. And she just couldn't wrap ahead about it.

She just couldn't. she was just wanted that chaos. And I get it because sometimes I will sabotage my own life. Because I mistake peace for boredom. Right. And I just self-sabotage. That's right. That's, I've dated a woman like that.

They're impossible because they're, that's, and she'd be like, I'm addicted to chaos. And I'd be like, what the fuck does that mean? Yeah. I really understand that now because it's a, it's a reinforcing. It's almost like a dopamine hit. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like being addicted to smoking cigarettes.

Yeah. Like it's a, it's this, these neuropathways. that are wired when you're very young. Yeah. And so sad. And some people don't, if you don't take care of it. Yeah. Because I know it is baffling.

Like, how can I be addicted to problems? Yeah. But it's a thing that more people need to talk about because it is real. Yeah. And you have to take accountability as well. You can't sit there with victim mentality and be like, oh, my life's so bad and everything's so bad when you are creating your own hell. Because I have done that on a, you know, a regular basis.

I'm now getting over that. There's been a few years now where I've been quite stable, but again, I can lean into something I shouldn't be leaning into, you know? Yeah. So your mom's, she overdosed? Yeah, so my mom overdosed about two years ago now. Could be just a little bit less. And she left, like, a lot of suicide notes that I found.

My stepdad, he overdosed about seven months prior to her around the anniversary of his sister's, a birthday or murder. It was one of the dates. Yeah. And then my bio dad, he killed himself when I, was 13 years old and I was blamed for it because his dad, who he won't

associate as being my granddad, I was like the unwanted child, but the half-brother and sister that I have, the Muslim ones, he's don'ts on them. So, um... Why do they blame you? I don't understand. They blame me because I weren't talking to him at the time of his death. And I think the last phone call we shared, I was like, I don't know,

10-11 and I was like, I don't want to speak to you. You know, you're an alcoholic. I hate you. And then we never spoke since then. So then I was blamed for it and said, you know, Gemma shouldn't have been so nasty to him. So I had all that pressure at 13 years old. Yeah.

And he killed himself? Yeah. So it was a cocktail of prescription drugs, illegal drugs and alcohol. And then he had gone over on his knees. So he was kneeling down and his mum found in my grandma and the blood couldn't circulate. So even if they'd have got there in time, the blood weren't circulated.

It just killed him. So yeah. Have you been back to that little town? where those horrible things happened to you? Yeah. Yeah. And it's horrible. I hate it.

And my best friend lives across the road from where it happened. So it's really difficult for me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I tend not to go back. But sometimes, you know, I do, I did go and visit my grandma, but I've had to cut her off completely now because she was just too nasty. Wow.

Yeah. Why? We'd just be saying horrible things about my mom, saying horrible things about me. There was a time when she was poorly. So I looked after her and she would do the same things, spin my kids off against. each other. I said, I'm not having that. I will not subject my children who were healthy, healthy mentally to that. So you've got to go back home now and get home care.

So yeah, now to the point, I'm just like, when my mum passed, she made a really nasty comment about it. And I just thought, that's enough now. That's enough. Yeah. So I don't talk to her. God, the system, man, it's, it just like spits people up. And it seems like it chews people up and spits them out. And it seems like when it gets a hold of you, it's just like a Yeah. It's like bad inertia. You can't stop. You can't stop.

God. And I've just been let down by the system so many times because my mom asked social services for help. She said, I need help to raise my girls. She was getting beaten black and blue by my stepdad on a regular basis. And they, because she had a really lovely house, my mom always had a clean house. And they were like, well, your house is clean, so you don't need any help. So she even asked for help, you know, and then, you know, we should have had help.

Yeah. And because my mum was taking these drugs and sometimes she would take a dirty hit and her arm would swell up or some guy would come and take advantage of her or try to. So this one time I just said, I looked at my sister,

she would have been probably 10 at the time, maybe eight. And I emptied all the tablets out of the cabinet and I was like, sod this, we're just going to go and we're just going to end our lives because what's the point? Because I couldn't see my mum in this state anymore,

you know, different, because she'd split all with my stepdad at this point, so different men were coming because she was drinking and then she'd drink, get the urge to buy drugs. And then, well, you know, that's a recipe of a disaster. You're unconscious, aren't you? And I just thought, I just had enough.

So I took me and my sister to, like, kill us. And then luckily, the boyfriend, the steroid boyfriend that was seen at the time at 16, he rang me up and said, where are you? I said, oh, I'm going to kill me in my sister. He's like, no, you're not. Don't be bloody stupid. He's coming rescued us from the park. It's funny that you answered the phone, though.

Yeah. I know, I'm like, I'm going to, It was probably a cry for help. Of course it was. Yeah, you know, it was probably a cry for help. I'm sat here with a drink. I'm doing it. Yeah.

You're going to kill me and my sister. Yeah. It was. It was a cry for help. It's kind of cute in a way. Yeah, cute and sat. Yeah, it's horrendous. Yeah.

It was horrendous for my sister because she probably thought, am I going to die? Yeah. I don't want to die. At the skate park. How ironic. And then, yeah, so that was a situation. But he was, you know, toxic.

And at one point, he stabbed himself. in the leg with the kitchen knife in front of me, my mom, my little sister. Yeah, so that was another thing that I witnessed. You know, it was always knife crime. And then on the most recent time that my stepdad beat my mom, smacks her head off the kitchen sink, I didn't know how to stop it, so I grabbed a knife to stab him. And then he's grabbed the knife off me.

He's tried to slash his throat, but it was quite a blunt knife, so it only just made like light gashes. He tried to slash his own throat in front of you guys. Why my mom was on the floor in the heat, the police of course. and arrested him and then I went to court against my own stepdad because I couldn't let him do that to my mother, you know? And even though it was really hard and it was like that trauma bond, I loved him, but I knew I had to send him to prison because if he, if he was going to do that to my mom, we could do it to anybody. So it was like safeguarding my mom and yeah, that's my life. Crime is like, you know, it's like gun crime in America. It's kind of people look at that as a weapon to kill, you know, and it's so vicious.

Yeah. And it's, I guess it's really pervasive in England. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's all people talk about and the slums of London. Yeah. Right? You saw somebody, didn't you see somebody get shot to death? So, yeah, I didn't see them get shot.

It's all the aftermath of the thing. So we went to the park really early and they would court, the police had cordoned the park off and then somebody had their arm shot. I don't know if it was like all the way off or a little bit off. There was blood everywhere. But because I'm so desensitized to it. And so my kids, my kids were like, oh, should we look for the the murder weapon and then I'm like oh let's go and look at the blood and we're all looking at the

blood and then my um a local artist in the area big french he was in his car at the off license the shot um and somebody had shot at him and then his best friend on the same day got shot in the head I think outside a chicken shop he died in front of his little boy that was all on the same day there was um a guy beat his neighbor to death over a music dispute and the air ambulance came in and me and all my kids were running out to go and have a look at the, you know, the murder scene. Oh, my God. So you had to get him out of that. Well, yeah, the final straw was my son getting stabbed himself.

And I always said, if violence touches my children in this area, then I'm going to get them out. And that's what happened. He was at school. He was in the dinner queue. And another boy has come over to him, stabbed him in the bum. And, yeah, that was it. I was like, right. But do you know what?

My son still went to school the next day. How brave is that? What a legend. I would have used that to every ex-exam. excuse. I would have said, I'm not going to school, but he didn't. He still went to school the next day. So he's a boy, he's just tough as old boots, my boy. Yeah. Yeah, he is.

I mean, with the mother like me, you know, he's got no, you've got no opportunity to be weak. I'm like, come on. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Gosh. Are those kids going to be, are they okay? Are they traumatized at all? My kids. Have you passed anything on to them that you've seen yet? No, I haven't passed any, well, I don't know. We'll see what there. Yeah, we don't know. We'll see what there is.

Maybe a healthy amount. Yeah, yeah, maybe just a touch. enough to keep them grounded, you know? So, but at the moment, they're so great, they're doing great, they're thriving, you know, so well at school reports are great, you know, so well-managed, so well-spoken, they don't speak like me, like, hey on, mate.

They're very, oh, hello, yes, they're very well-spoken. Yeah, I've just done a real good job with them, but unfortunately, you know, I couldn't do that for my son who I share with my ex because I tried to get contact with him, I tried to get him back, and this is why I've stacked up 15 years of paperwork to prove to him,

that I did try, but my ex would just move, move away, move away, move away, move away, cut the contact, cut the contact, cut the contact, cut the contact. So unfortunately, well, he's just a model of his father. He's the same, he's going down the same room. And that's really unfortunate. Yeah, God, it's terrible. People shouldn't have kids so young. No, we shouldn't.

No. Big, big mistake. Shouldn't have kids. There should be a law on it. They should. Yeah, they should. England is going through a period If I could compare it

I don't know maybe like what America went through You know I don't know You guys are going through something I hope you make it Because there's a lot of really You know wonderful things about this country Oh yeah The sites, the culture

Yeah The history The intellect Yeah You know But there is a dark side to it Especially London Yeah

Yeah well Manchester too yeah Manchester well all big city listen it's just city life big cities come with big problems but nobody talks about it they don't air what happens in London

people are getting stabbed on a daily basis but nobody airs it I've got videos on my phone and I won't air him because it's minors but I'll show you in a minute what happened at my boys' school but it doesn't get published you know right everything's very hush hush

so they're going to kill me for well they're going to hate people talking out a racist for like identifying your attackers. Oh no, they didn't call me a racist for that. They called me racial slurs. They called me a, I can't repeat it.

It's a racial term for somebody that sleeps with somebody of an ethnic minority. So they said that I agreed to it. Oh, yeah. I missed that part. I thought they were calling you racist for like saying some brown guys. No, no.

They were calling me a mud shark. Something like that. Yeah. if you can say that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's like, is that somebody a white person that goes with somebody of an ethnic minority?

I think so. Right. Okay. Well, they were calling me those kind of names. Oh, okay. So these were racist white people. Yeah. Against me.

Acusing you of. Yeah. Being a slut or whatever. Yeah. Wow. That is, that is some special ignorance. Yeah.

It is some special ignorance. And that's why I'm saying, now they're all out there chanting, going, oh, get rid of the immigrants. Get rid of the immigrants. but they all turned on me when that happened to me. But now it's fashionable to be seen as you're going against a grooming gang. So now it's all right.

Yeah. But when I was a 17-year-old little girl, none of my white counterparts stuck up for me. Well, that could actually made a difference. So all these, make England great again. But when you're drinking Stella, sniffing cocaine and beating your misses up, you want to represent my country. No, mate, you're just a racist. That's all you are.

There's got to be, they've got to go about it in a different. way. Yes, these grooming gangs do need to stop. And yes, is, you know. What are grooming gangs? So these are Middle Eastern men who take vulnerable white girls and traffic them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it is becoming a problem and it needs to be stopped. But by white ignorant men walking around with cans of beer sniffing coat. Yeah. Still wearing track suits. Still wearing track suits or England shirts. Yeah.

Going, make England great again. It's not going to help. No. It's not helping. I agree. I agree. Get me on a platform and I will make a movement. Somebody that's actually been through it, you know?

Not these idiot coke heads. You know, it's just ridiculous. Yeah. And, you know, they probably got a ton of trauma. They've probably got a ton of pain. Or they haven't and they're creating their own trauma. Yeah. They've got nothing to do.

They work, like, and I'm not having to go at people that work in supermarkets or factories, but they go to work Monday to Friday. Their life is very dull. So they want to jump on all these right wing movements to get a bit of like, we're in, yeah, it's like a sports team. It's the same. It's the same reason that people join gangs, you know. It's to be connected to a movement. But they're the wrong movements and the wrong gangs, you know. Yeah.

Read a book. Educate yourself. you know do something proper with your life that's it not sitting on Facebook going oh my idiots man uh you've been uh this has been uh hard to listen to it points but i really enjoyed it you really uh you're funny okay you make me laugh yeah and i hadn't been too miserable no okay not at all i hate it i hate being miserable but i can't tell my story without going back there mentally you know i hope people can find you uh so so So what are you, what's next for you?

What are you plans? Are you going to try to be out there more speaking about these things? Yes, definitely. I'm involved in a few projects. My social media is bipolar mum journey. And I just tell snippets of my life to make other people realize that it's okay to have gone through trauma and hell and essay. Like don't feel the shame that I've carried for all these years.

I've kept it all. And if you've got family members that are like, don't you say anything. It's their dirty laundry that they don't want air. I mean. 100%. So, you know, speak out. Absolutely. And don't internalize the shame because it's not your shame to internalize. It's everybody else since it's their dirty laundry, not yours. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like too many people get away with sexual assault. Yeah. And that's why like the B2 movement was ultimately a good thing. You know what I mean? Yes. I know. I think it's got a little bit too crazy now because where's the line? Sure. Absolutely. Just like everything it gets, it goes too far.

but, you know, just hearing these horror stories firsthand, you're just like, yeah, the culture had to shift a little bit. Oh, 100% it has to shift. Yeah. And people need to, especially in England, speak out. Yes. Where it's like, it's still proper. And yeah, the family doesn't want to talk about these things that are really dirty.

And yeah, they are the worst of human behavior. Yeah. Like, truly the worst. But if you just bottle it up, you just keep the cycle going. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you have to get it out. Otherwise, you're going to just put that down to your kids. It's that generational trauma. You're just going to pass it down and pass it down. Somebody has to break the cycle. And that person has to be you. So anybody listening to this, it has to be you. Yeah. Gemma, I hope somebody, look up Gemma. I want to see you shine. You know what I mean? So look out for her. Bipolar. Mom Journey. Bipolar Mom Journey. On Instagram, we got to get you on TikTok. Gotta get your YouTube page. All that stuff. Yeah.

I am so thrilled and honored that I get to be one of the first people to break your incredible, you know, heart wrenching, but also a triumphant story. Yeah. So you're doing amazing. Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. And I will talk to you guys later.

Take care.