The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - How a Mormon Kid From Texas Became a Mexican Cartel Sicario

Episode Date: August 23, 2026

From a strict Mormon upbringing in Texas to the violent world of cartel-connected crime, Tyler’s story is one of the wildest we’ve heard. In this episode, Tyler explains how he went from being a high school kid making money transporting drugs to working around human-smuggling networks along the Texas–Mexico border. He describes witnessing extreme cartel violence at a young age, moving migrants through border towns, becoming involved in violent contract work in Mexico, and later building a large drug business back home. Tyler also opens up about the side of that lifestyle people rarely talk about—the paranoia, emotional numbness, PTSD, memory problems, prison, and the difficulty of returning to a normal life after years surrounded by violence. We discuss: • Growing up in a strict Mormon household • Getting recruited into drug transportation as a teenager • Witnessing cartel violence for the first time • How human-smuggling networks operate along the border • Coyotes, safe houses, spotters, burner phones, and cartel organization • His descent into increasingly violent criminal work • Building a drug business through Snapchat • His 2019 arrest and prison sentence • The lasting psychological effects of the lifestyle • Therapy, family, faith, and trying to rebuild his life This conversation contains descriptions of violence, drug trafficking, and other criminal activity. It is presented for documentary, educational, and entertainment purposes and is not intended to promote or encourage illegal behavior. This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: BetterHelp! See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit https://betterhelp.com/connect Mood! Head to https://mood.com, browse their amazing selection of functional gummies, and find the perfect gummy for whatever you're dealing with. Use promo code CONNECT at checkout to save 20% on your first order. Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Intro: Mormon Kid to Cartel Hitman 01:27 Growing Up in a Strict Mormon Household 03:13 Rebelling Against Church Rules 04:16 First Adventure: Driving Heroin 06:40 Close Call: Witnessing a Chainsaw Murder 09:07 The Psychological Aftermath 12:32 Understanding the Cartel's Organization 15:10 Mental Health Struggles and Trauma 20:35 This Episode Is Sponsored By BetterHelp 21:55 Getting Back into Smuggling 23:23 Human Smuggling Operations and Safe Houses 27:18 Evolution into a Hitman 29:04 Cartel's Control and Police Corruption 31:52 The Job: Contract, Payment, and Preparation 36:27 The First Hit and Moral Numbing 40:33 This Episode Is Sponsored By Mood 42:33 Avoiding Addiction and the Double Life 45:08 The Worst Thing Seen: Four Days of Torture 52:00 The Drug Business and Burner Phones 01:10:11 Getting Busted and Going to Prison 01:17:00 Building the Snapchat Drug Empire 01:22:26 Why Keep Doing Hits? 01:24:07 The Last Job and Quitting 01:27:01 Arrest and Prison Sentence 01:30:09 Life After Prison and Redemption Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. My dad was Mormon. We went to the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints.

Maybe a week went by, and he asked me if I wanted to drive. I was taking a bag, not knowing what's in the bag, just knowing sometimes the bag's heavy, sometimes the bag's not heavy. One day, a guy had to, like, check his product, and it didn't look like cocaine. I'm driving heroin. Cartels are professionals at controlling chaos.

They kept a guy alive for four days. I was there to pick up his body. They blow-torched his nuts. They blow-torched the bottom of his feet. His tongue was out. He had his fingernails missing and a couple of these little nubs. You're my target. I'm not trying to hit nobody else.

I'm going to get four in you, man. I'm sorry. I'm a bad person learning to be good. You've gone so far at that point, it's just normal. What happens when a sheltered Mormon kid from a Houston suburb has a chance meeting with a Mexican cartel? He starts killing for them. In today's episode, you'll learn how a young man named Tyler worked as a heroin mule, a migrant smuggler, and then eventually as a hit man for the Gulf Cartel.

with 16 confirmed kills for the organization in the cities of Renosa and Matamoros in northern Mexico. This was shocking, even for me. And before we get started, if you could do me a huge personal favor and hit that like button, subscribe to the channel, and drop a comment, I would be forever indebted to you. All right, you guys, prepare to be stunned. It's Tyler the Hitman right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Tell us how you grew up. I grew up with two parents.

They lived in, you know, they got divorced and both got remarried. My dad was Mormon. We went to the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. A little bit different there. You know, church is three hours on Sunday. And, you know, you got to do, if you're in high school, you're going to go to seminary in the morning for one hour. You got mutual on Wednesdays.

Very, you know, you got to be very active. And I didn't fit in with that. Because in my mom's, she wasn't Mormon. It was normal, you know. Keep your grades up. I just need to know where you are, but, you know, go be a kid. So, yeah, I did not get along with, you know, at the church, a lot. When did you start, I don't know, acting out, getting in trouble?

Because you took such a, such a left turn from going from being a strict, from a strict Mormon house to. Well, he grew up like that. But it got annoying when it started. to be negotiated, like, to watch football on Sundays. What, in my dad's, you can't, you know, we don't watch, uh, we, we don't watch TV on Sundays. You just live with the family.

That's, you know, that's, like, common for Mormons. You actually don't, like, watch normal TV. It's like, bro, I negotiate to watch football game, but like, you know, the, you know, I've been at my mom's and, like, before I could watch football, was it a problem. Like, if I would, it's smoke so wheat. Oh my God. In my dad's, yeah, I'd be graded for six months. Like, yeah, like, to be a normal kid there was crazy.

To be at my mom's, I mean, I want to just be smoking weed in the backyard, but yeah, I'd occasionally go tap the blunt and come back home, and it was like normal. Life stuff started being annoying all the time. Like, everything being church-related. Like, you're asking for so much of my time, I don't even like being here. What do you think I'm going to do? I'm going to get mad. I don't like it here. I don't get along with these people.

I'm not going to watch my mouth. Like, I'm going to say exactly what I want. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for Linda because, you know, it has to be easy for you at your PTA meeting. I, bro, y'all kiss my ass with that. Y'all, you know, come on, we're all adults. We talk crap about each other. We're not perfect, but we try to be perfect. Y'all be doing the most.

I gotta give to simmering in the morning. That's crazy. So you're from Houston or just outside of Houston? Outside of Houston. I lived in Conroe. Were you fascinated by the streets? Like, were you influenced by the criminal culture of Houston? No, I just want to make extra money.

You know, like, I worked a job. Like, my dad taught me to work a job. I worked. I worked at a golf course. But like all the other kids worked part-time jobs. I worked a full-time job. I worked about 35 hours and went to school. It's like, yeah, a little extra cash on the side. Like, yeah, that was nice.

That's like a little weed money. Me and my friends want to go out. Bro, I got it. Like, let's go have fun. That was really all it was about then. Mm-hmm. And adventure? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so talk about how you first, talk about your first adventure. Oh, so it was heroin. And I didn't know. I didn't know because, you know, in the real drug game, you don't open the bag. You know, that's real. Don't open the back.

Don't open the bag. Just take the bag where it's supposed to go because it's not your fucking business. This is a matter. You're being asked to take this from point B. That's what the guy told me. Point A point B and come back. That's it. Okay.

How did you get put on? A kid at school, he stole something for someone, and I helped him hide it. I was an accomplice and we didn't get caught. You know, we did our time. Yeah. We had talked with the cop for a couple minutes, but he didn't find nothing.

Well, I didn't really talk to him at all in class. He was like super, you know, sport athlete dude. And I didn't think, I thought it was kind of weird. I just moved to that school. Was he popular? No, well, no, because he couldn't stay to school long enough, but he was gifted. Oh, so he was like a troublemaking athlete. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Black guy? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, very, I never even saw him play. But, yes, very, very talented is what kids said when he got to move to our school. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, he told me two weeks. later, like we started talking a little bit and maybe a week went by and he asked me if I wanted

to drive for, you know, make a little extra money. And I thought, well, you know, he's blacks. It's probably just weed. But, you know, I met his uncle because he did not drive. He's just asking, you know, they're looking for a white kid, as I found later. They just needed a white boy for unusual circumstances, as I would call them. Yeah, I was taking a bag, not knowing what's in the bag, just knowing sometimes the bag's heavy. Sometimes the bag's not heavy. But until one day, a guy had to, like, check his product, and it didn't look like cocaine, and it was kind of beige, so, I mean, I assume, like,

you know, I'm driving heroin, which, again, I still didn't know the circumstances then of, like, what would happen if I got caught? It really didn't matter to me. I thought, like, weeds, like, all, you know, everything's the same charge. How bad could it be? And where are you taking the bags?

Like, where are you, where, where, how far are you driving? I'm going to South Houston. I live in spring. I'm never driving more than an hour from anywhere in South Houston. And how much you get paid? $400 every time. Right.

So they're getting over on you, but... Yeah, yeah. The price, I mean, I would never, but the price would be now at $1,000 a key. What are you talking about? Like, we got a way out risk for word here, people. Come on. But yeah, I was getting over on me.

Yeah. Did you have any close calls? Yes, yeah. One time we had to go over to Mexico, and a gentleman was stealing. And anyone who particularly, I anticipated in driving that day, which I was one of the people. We had to go and, you know, have a talk with this guy.

Little did we know that he knew who was stealing and he chainsawed him in half in front of everybody. Some of these guys were not with that. Like, I threw up. I'm going to be honest. Like, that's not, you shouldn't see that. Another guy puked, but he kind of needed to start to understand something too. So we went back inside this little warehouse where he had a discussion. And me and the first guy, we was trying to get to fuck out of there.

We were too threw up. We were trying to leave. This is too much. But when I'm walking out, you know, I thought this guy was dead. And when you are getting tortured, you guys should pass out. So he passed out. Well, I hear him like mumble something in Spanish and a shit comes out my ass and goes back in my assholes so quick.

I swear to God. And I almost lost my legs. I literally almost fell. Like, I didn't have legs for a minute. He was chainsawed in half. His guts are hanging out. His stuff, his like, what you see like on the war movie, that's real. But like sometimes you don't die.

You don't like actually die yet. You'll pass out. You may bleed out. But he woke back up for a minute. That's good shit out of me. Yeah. Wow. How many of you were brought down there?

Six. And these are all the drivers for this organization. The present for that day. Anyone who drove that day had to go. Other than that and probably his some of his people. We had like 10 guys with him. Now, was it the black guy, the uncle of your friend at school who ordered this? No, this was the,

this was his people. This man was his people. This guy was not a black guy. His connect. Yes, but, well, I mean, no, this was someone that works with them, but the point is, it's like one of us had handed him something and he was stealing. Anyone who was present driving that day had to go. We didn't even know that this guy is going to, yeah, like, I didn't know.

No one said that. Wow. How old was the kid getting tors? He couldn't have been more than 25, 26. Yeah. And you're still in high school? I'm still in high school. Yeah.

Yeah, I held up a whole story to stay at a friend's house so I could go to the border not knowing, oh my God, like I'm gonna try to get some cocaine and like, I'm gonna have fun, I'm having experience. That's not how that went. Yeah, yeah, I was ready to go back immediately. Like, yeah, we were all trying to leave. Yeah. And you kept working for the organization after that? Well, we had an agreement six months, six months to drive with them for unusual circumstances,

which I found out later was really, you just had some role on you and you were being watched. watched and you needed like the most least conspicuous person to do some stuff for you which ended up being me okay so they were their organization was being watched and that's why they needed somebody a square yeah yeah which i found out later you know after a couple months of being done i i find that out you know that really you were just being looked at what do you think that did to you seeing a person murdered like that nothing because i have to go home whatever the fuck going on there's a I have a normal life. I can't, I don't want this to, I don't want this to correlate.

So you got to go home and figure it out. Like you got snap out of it. That's not what happened. The first two hours of being home was horrible. It was the worst experience in my life. It was terrible. It was like being in Allison and Wonderland. Like everything looks different to me, but everything feels terrible.

Like every, I feel like I touch anything. I'm going to be sick. I feel like if I drink water, I'm going to be sick. I feel like I eat. I'm going to be sick. I feel like if I sit down, I'm going to be sick. So I smoked a blunt through up. threw up, yeah, yeah, on the side of my house.

Like, I was so sad, I didn't want to, like, walk away from the house, go smoke. And, yeah, I threw that blunt out, and, yeah, bro, shower time. Like, I have school. I got to... Did your parents have any idea? Any of this was going on? No. No, absolutely not.

You were just great at hiding from them? Well, this is where it got bad. I'm pretty talkative, but I don't think I said a word to myself for, like, two weeks, or much less to anybody. And that's when the teachers started being like, hey, man, hey, Tyler, what's going on? And I'm realizing, like, I can't do this. Like, I got to snap out of it.

So that's what I did. I went to school and dad. I was like, that's it. I'm good. Like, next day, like, when my friends saw me, I was good again. But I didn't say a word to, like, anybody for, like, two weeks. Yeah.

Did you ever have to be violent? Did you ever have any close calls yourself? Yeah, I was engaged in a couple of shootouts. It's like I'm trying to hurt anybody, But, you know, you should miss you. So, yeah, Mexico's a lot different. Gravitating towards down the border with those people is different. It's a blessing for us to be here, Johnny, and we go shoot out and the police, and they can

fuck us up. But there is different. They do what they're told. Like, the cops do what they're told. And it's not even like, they're bitches. It's like, hey, we, the one thing that you keep saying is very true. you all call them gangbangers you call them whatever you want

they've been doing this a long time they're so fucking organized everything is compartment compartment minimalization from the time I worked with them down at the border again I never saw cash like large mouth never

it's all compartmentalization yeah yeah never bro it's you know you're with somewhere when there ain't no slit bro I'm in a position that's it right you have someone else doing something else you have a backup for that person

to do that because you don't want them to know about this like yeah they are They're organized and... And you think this was the Gulf cartel? Well, you never ask... You shouldn't ever ask, ever ask an active member. You think they're active. That's disrespectful.

And you're not going to see them throwing gang signs and all that. You don't see that. But the Gulf cartel have always ran everything from Renosa to Montemortes. So that's everything on this side of the border from Brownsville to Hildago and McAllen. Yeah. And that's kind of the areas. I was in. The only time I was a little bit out of the area

was Eagle Pass, but I'm just moving people. Not stepping on no one's toes. I'm, you know, that was kind of where I was, and I met someone that was near McCallan and kind of started going there. But that's who I'm out there operating for. Okay, so did you graduate from high school? Yes, 2013, yeah.

So after all this happened? I try to be normal, you know? Like, my dad was, you know, my dad was a lawyer. He didn't make a lot of money at first. He does now. He's not like that then. Yeah. Getting out of law school,

would not make money. Your dad was a lawyer too, right? I watched your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Now, he wasn't successful at first. He was in real estate. And as you know, in 2008, so yeah, it was never a good time. Now he owns the law firm and he's badass. He's killing it. Yeah, it's 415 hour. Yeah. So did you try to go straight? Like, did you go straight? Like, did you go college? Like, what happened? I tried to do school. I did a semester of college. I passed. I just wasn't for me. Like, I'm not going to invest. and that's why I'm going to, like, while I'm working. I try working at a bunch of jobs.

I would do okay. I would get promoted, but yeah, I think, like, my mental health was just always bad. Like, there were just times I get really, I didn't know how to engage with someone when they were, like, disrespectful to me. But other than I was always cool, but there would be that one day with someone. And, bro, like, right here, bro, we can punch. Like, I had a manager one time really say, let's go to the freezer. I was like, we're not going to the freezer.

I was like, I'm white. It's 17. We're going to punch right here because you're going to get fired, and I'm still gone. I yelled that out for everybody. He's like, yeah, like, I wouldn't handle that stuff well. I get mad. So, like, I think that would slowly affect me because I'd be really good at a job and then somewhere out.

I'd be great. I'd be the dude. And then, yeah, when I get real mad, they'd be like, you're a different person. Did you do drugs? Are you on drugs? No, I mean, I smoke weed. Like, I'll, you know, I'll tap the pen a couple times.

But no, I don't do drugs. I had a prescription for Vivance. And I would smoke sometimes, but no, not really anything else. And drink. I mean, you're in high school. You're part taking alcohol. But you've never been diagnosed with, you know, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, manic.

No, I've complex trauma and an obsessive compulsive disorder. Okay. I recently have been seeing a therapist last couple months. So I've been addressing that recently, mental health because it started to get really bad. Good for you. Like, where I can't go outside. Like, I wake up with cold sweats, like every night. I started getting memory loss real bad.

It started, like, really deteriorating me with time. Like, with time, it really starts to... Every man's different, bro. Like, the weight you want to carry on your shoulders is you. But the question is, is when you break and how you break. And, yeah, it slowly started... Like, it got bad. Do you think the trauma comes from witnessing

that man being murdered with the chainsaw, or does this... Is it something else, or is it a connection of all of it? Man, in my time at the border, if you don't see death, you're still going to get a phone call about it from someone down there. The faster, the closer you go

to the border, the faster people die. Because you can't keep up. I don't care who, you're the FBI, you're the DEA, like, you need to move all your headquarters down there then. Like, because you're not going to stop that. You don't have the resources to just compete, bro. Money talks, bullshit walks, bro.

These dudes will throw up everything they have just to keep winning. Like, yeah, it's, yeah, I saw a lot of death. And really, I wouldn't even care about seeing death because most people, I don't even care. But there are people you feel responsible for you lose. And I, yeah, I took some bad phone calls sometimes.

These are people that you were working with? Yeah. They became friends? You try not to, but yeah. Yeah. But you try not to. You don't, you do. You don't try to.

Yeah, but when you're in that life and you're living that high stakes, you can't help but get close to people. Yeah, you do. It's like trauma bonding, for real. It is. Can't help it. You're there. So you saw friends get killed? No, but I got the worst phone calls. I've seen people die and I've had phone calls

that worst hurt, like by far. How are people getting killed down there? Why? I knew someone that got killed because not only was, her brother was stealing in a, like he, you know, he was sloppy, he was doing the white, and he was driving around, and he thought he was being followed, and he left it at a. house. Well, they went to the last three places he'd been and I was in there. So she was the consequence and I didn't know, but I was actually helping try to get him back across, not knowing that I can't get one fucking coyote that he ain't fucked off in some type of way. And yeah,

like he, I mean, I leave him there. Like when I found out that and I knew they were going after him, I left out, yeah, well, you out there. You go ahead and eat that up. So they killed him on the Mexico side. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I didn't care about him. I cared about her. Like, Stupid motherfucker, man. So the cross-border movement of people and drugs is 24-7. Round o'clock. Everybody knows somebody that's in on it. Yeah, dude, you could get a coordinates and, like, okay, if it's drugs, I'm going to tell you to go buy me backpacks, right?

You're going to take the reflectors off every backpack except one. You're going to put them all piled up, but that one needs to face the fucking road my guys are driving up to. bro, I've done it one time and grabbed like what was needed but literally I looked like not even 20 yards away and you somewhat like there's another like people are doing it everywhere longitude or latitude man you could honk the horn

be careful. Be careful where you honk the horn because it'd be 15 people pump out. I'm dead serious. I don't care who says it. I broke the record for most people in a Camry. To get housed not to take to San Antonio but to get housed I broke the record. I'm telling you I had four people in the front I had I live, dude nine people

walked out. It was crazy. Nine people got out of this camera. It was ridiculous. How many? It sounds like a bad joke. How many Mexicans can you fit in a Camry? Nine motherfuckers, man. Yeah. Without the trunk. That's why they're so small. Yeah. They evolved. Well, and they're mental nurse down there. It's kind of sad. And they've been traveling. These people you're picking up. Exhaught. Traveling for weeks. Dude, I had a lady holding her daughter's hand. And when they jumped in the car,

they prayed the whole way to us to get a house. But is that bro? For them, it means that much. Okay, so I want to talk about how you got introduced to this people smuggling, this human smuggling. How long after you graduated high school did you start getting back into the... 2017 is probably when I went down there and first did that. I did try to do that again in 2021 when I got out. But I instantly, they knew me. Yeah, I could, yeah.

I got pulled over pretty quick and asked. leave. You were too hot. Because it's a small town. You got the same guys working there, been working there. Like, they're not stupid, bro. These guys got a good fucking memory. Their job is to be their checkpoints and no. What's the town? Eagle Pass. Yeah. But I've been to a couple places. So it's running across the river from... Pedro. Nizegra. Yes. And that was one of the main border crossings under Biden that they were showing. That they were just, yeah, just literally just gushes of people coming

over, thousands of people every week. they also picked the place least populated. I think they set it all up. You pick the place least populated. Why? Because you can make it look like the most immigrants are coming across, because there's more coming across in that town than people are in that town. Right.

Yeah, I don't think you picked McAllen because you have 1.5 million people there, bro. Don't fuck with the money. Right. You know, you got all those trucks coming through. Right. Don't show it in El Paso. You got all those trucks coming through. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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because I always did good business with him. And, you know, we had an understanding. So I did ask him for a favor of years later, and that's how I got back in. He was like, I could introduce you to somebody. You know, you'll go down to somewhere and you're like San Antonio, and you'll meet someone and go from there.

And yeah, I met a 45-year-old, 50-year-old lady. You know, she was nice. But, yeah, she gave me a phone, and I got a call the next day. But literally I stayed out there because I knew I was going to get a call. Right. Yeah. Then I got introduced to a guy and he's like, we do this.

And, you know, I meet his guy at the mall and Eagle Pass. And that's it. I'm, you know, I'm put at one of the houses. And, yeah. So sometimes you get a call. Hey, we got 10 people and you're going to get longitude and latitude. You don't go to fucking McDonald's. Go honk.

A couple people will come out. You're going to house them. You're going to keep them in the house. Okay. So they give you coordinates. Yeah, never. Yeah. Yes. So literally they don't even say go to, they don't give you a street address. They don't give you, don't go to the Dairy Queen, go to, go to this longitude and latitude and then just honk your horn. Yeah, six, seven people will come out. That's serious. I'm just serious. Jump out of the bushes? Yeah. Yeah. You do you see Israel where they show you like men in black where you see nothing and people pop out. That's real. Yeah. I'll pull up to a spot and it'll be a fence. It's someone's private property sometimes. Right. You can't see a fucking thing. You honk the horn. Yeah.

Six, seven, sometimes two or three. But yeah, the people come out. And then you take them to the safe house. Yeah. Then there'll be a couple. Sometimes it's the one you're going to. But, hey, sometimes you get a call from a spot or, hey, there's, you know, a cop here, cop here. Go to the other one.

And it'll be a hotel. Sometimes there's another house. But yeah. It's a small town and everyone's doing it. Yeah. Literally everybody. And they must have lookouts all over the place. Everywhere.

Yeah. Just like in Mexico. Everywhere. Everywhere you go is an alcohol, a puntero, everybody's got eyes on the cops. You can't, dude, they don't know the cops are going. They know where you're going. They know you've been caught. Yeah.

Very organized. Even on this side. Like, they're, yeah. Wow. So, and it's a mix of groups, right? Like factions. Yeah, different factions. And essentially, you were saying, like, they, on the other side of the border, they pay

a tax to the cartel. Yeah. And what are they paying that tax for? I mean, obviously to avoid violence and murder, but is it because they have the police paid? Like, they're the ones who deal with the corruption? I think it's more because they allow you to use their turf. Like, that's their turf, bro.

Like, they don't hold that for a long time. They could tell you to fuck off and you're going to. Right. It's really them. You want people to cross? They'll let it happen. If they don't want people to cross, not one person would move.

And their strongholds, they are in charge. Like, in charge. Like, yeah. I know that they had a stash house. I'm not supposed to say that. Like, I know, even when we're there, I'm not supposed to know what it is. I'm waiting outside.

But yeah, there are police part, like two miles down the road. They know what this is. Yeah. There was a shock to me. Bro, and he's like, dude, it's not as different. They're paying. Yeah, like, yeah.

Or they're told, like, fuck off, you know. I mean, I imagine what are these guys could openly go piss all their cop car bill. What would do? Like, it'd probably just be like that. It's different, man. They're not. You have very egotistical people on a lot of stuff, making choices, enter a charge.

And yeah. Okay, so you begin with this smuggling organization. How much do you get paid? 200 a day to just sit in the house, you know? That's, I mean, really, you're not, you could call it guarding people, but no one's trying to leave. Everyone's trying to get to San Antonio, and then you're typically, that's where it starts to become easier to not get caught at all.

Right. So these are the people after they cross the line, the border. Then they get housed. And then we're waiting for, you know, the heat. Where's how many cops are out? You know, what's going on? Like, sometimes there's cops everywhere. Sometimes there's not.

Yeah. Right. Then you have the second checkpoint. Right. And that's where you got to get them through is the second checkpoint or help get them to so they can move across. And after they get across, they're basically free and clear if they can get to San Antonio. Yeah.

When you get there, it's really hard to just, I mean, you know, people are dropping them off everywhere out there. How many people do you think were part of this organization? From the lookouts to the bosses. I mean, it seems like a massive logistical... You got half a million people. It's fucking crazy. But soldiers, you know, crash dummies, you know, people doing human smuggling for you, everything.

Yeah, you got half a many people easy. What's a crash dummy? Oh, man, you'll, I mean, you can get them do anything for cheap, you know, anything. Yeah. Right. It's like in prison. They're usually crackheads or something. Yeah, you want, yeah, I'll give you sheet of tune, bro.

You want, you know, you want a couple sticks? Mm-hmm. Yeah, go smash that I do in the shower for him. It was 50 bucks. And dudes will do it. Right. Okay. So you garden people in a house.

How did it evolve? How did you get deeper? Well, I had helped that guy. I guess you could say I was capable with a pistol. I was okay. So, yeah, they asked to just help with, you know, with other things. Maybe going to collect a little money. But really, you could say,

most of the time these were people that were in default and we're going to be a problem. So really you're not, you know, sometimes you got, you know, you go there with intent of, of having to whoop this dude's ass or do something. But yeah, it turned from that to like, you know, do you want to like take care of other things for them? Like, like helping with people that are problems. And, you know, a gentleman explained the advantages I'd have, you know, I'm not looking like everybody else, obviously.

Sometimes that'd be beneficial. And so sometimes they knew that they could use my services for that. And, yeah, I would do that. And that would be $10,000 ahead. Yeah. And that was on this side. No, no, that's over there. That's in Mexico.

That's doing more intense stuff. But then, if you're referring to people, it's going to go to about three to 500 ahead based off of what's going on. I meant to clean somebody up. Oh, yeah, $10,000. Yeah. Okay. And that's this side?

No, that's there. That's in Mexico. Yeah. Yeah, I'd never do that over here. That's wild. Wow. You can't beat them people over here. No, you can't.

No. They'll get your blood. They'll, they'll get a camera. They'll get the satellite. Bro, don't fuck with these dudes over here. Yeah, it's always wild to me. You know, people talk how violent it is at the border. But it's really, when you go to a place like Eagle Pass, it's super chill.

Because everybody's, there's so much money on the line. Everything's in control. Right. They're really in. control. Cartels are professionals at controlling chaos. Because in their strongholds, if you can't move, if meth ain't going good for the Gulf cartels, you may smoke a meth in their stronghold. It'll whoop your ass. That's disrespectful. So didn't they ban meth from one of those border towns? On this side? On the other side? Because I heard they were trying to move Coke. And so they were trying to

basically, I heard a different cartel. I think it was CNA Loa or C.NG. They were trying to take over either rhinosa or one of those plazas with meth. And so what the cartel did was they said, if we catch you smoke of meth, we're going to kill you. So guys have told me that, can't confirm that because I never used, and I'm not really trying to like buy anything over there. Over there's to do a job, go home.

It's all, you're not staying even after. Like, you're not even welcomed after. You're there to do so. We got to get you to fuck home. Okay. And how would you enter Mexico when you had a job? Would you, would they bring you over like it was a migrant? Or would you just drive?

Yeah, I'm not over like a migrant. I'm walking over with someone, though. They're never going to sit me by myself. They'll always be a coyote. Someone who knows what they're doing and knows we're walking. So, yeah, you're good. That's an easy walk.

Just keep a gallon jug, and then I keep called the AdiPack under my shoe. The AdiPack is if you have something happen because, Johnny, me and you get in a rob a bank, right? You get shot in the leg. Well, Johnny, I only got to get you 10 feet to the car, bro. Shut the fuck up.

You ain't going to die. But, bro, you roll your ankle out there while we're walking and we're having to come back across and we hot. what's you want you want me to do it you want an extra clip what do you want to do

because if they grab you police or not you ain't going to jail bro he's gonna fuck you up they're gonna torture you I don't know what they're gonna do to you but like you won't be that person so yeah

even rolling your ankle it's a whole other element when you're crossing like bro you get hurt I might cry how far are we from where we need to go bro because you can't slow us down like that's real

so what is an adipack oh that's where you keep five Adderall right here and boy you you swing that down and you're going to drink less water. So you got your jug on you. That's going to save you water.

And you are going to move. Wow. Yeah, going to take the outy pack, take the whole thing. How you say you could walk across from that area in South Texas into Mexico? I thought the real ground was there. With the river. Yeah. Yeah, we're going across.

Okay, so that how would they move you across? So kind of like how it told you have spots, they have paramilitaries. They have spots where you can cross. Like, you can move. It's not too hard to move. But that's why, again, go with the coyote. So it's shallow. Like, you can almost walk across.

Yeah, you have certain places again. Go with the coyote. Do not try to go out there by yourself, bro. Because, like, you go somewhere with the current, you ain't, that ain't happening. That's not happening. So you would get contracted for a job and they would say, okay. Did you get paid up front? Yes.

I'm not going across without that. Yes. Yeah. Only because, like, what am I doing when I get caught? I don't have anything. Like, I'm fucked. Money comes first. Absolutely.

Y'all could not pay me. I could get captured. I'm not getting that money. No. Like, money. comes first. But there's always a timeline. It's two weeks. That's what I tell him. Two weeks. I'm going to watch. I'm going to do what I need to, but two weeks. And they obviously have the target and where, do they give you a location or when you get there, do you have to kind of stock?

I'm going to know a place where he's going to be at a certain time and you got to, you know, hey, he's going to be here for two hours Monday through. You got to be there one of those days. And that's how you start from there. Watch, you know, watch where he goes, watch who he's with. Right. Just see your best spot to get him and get you getaway time. And you would make it out of Mexico the same day after the job? Not all the time, no. No. The longest I had to stay was three days.

But I stayed in a hotel and they brought me food. I mean, I have to go nowhere. Right. I just stayed in there, smoke cigarettes. You're in Mexico and you're in one of the hottest parts of Mexico. How do you, as a gringo, as a white boy, how do you stock your target without stand it out? Just this, bro. Because, like, it's a level, look, it's a level four.

They rank at level one to five of dangerous places where they want people not to go. Rainosa is like level four. And they say because there are shootouts, there will be random barricades that come up. You might have to pay a tax if they don't know you. But I'm there to do certain things. I'm going to be put in a certain area and I'm probably not going to have a lot of issues. The day I'm going to do it, as far as walking around and moving, though, I'm just like everybody else. I mean, there's tourists there.

There's not a lot. Most of them are locals. They literally live across the way and have family. but you literally, they got an H.E.B. They got, you know, you just blend in. Right. What's harder is, like, when he goes into, like, when certain people go to, like, their trap. I don't try to follow too far into a neighborhood.

That's where, but we're in the city. No, like, we're at the H.E.B. I got you. I'm going to have some stuff for tortes, bro. Like, you know? So you're going to try to find him when he comes out of his barrio, his hood. Well, I'm going to find him the best spot I can to give me the best getaway time. That's what I'm looking for.

Getaway time. How fast can I drive away after? Do you think that whoever's contracting you? Do you think they have local cops paid off? So then it allows you to get away? Yeah. But again, the time I was there for four days, it's just sometimes there's unusual circumstances.

Maybe something else was going on too, and it set something off. I really don't know. I'm not gonna watch the news. I learned don't watch the news there. Just smoke cigarettes. Hang out dead serious. They're dead serious.

Smoke serious, go to sleep. Do they outfit you with a gun when you get over there, or do you bring your own? The first couple of times, I was embarrassing, but I really just asked the coyote. Like, you know, he's closer there. I don't have to drive all the way with the gun. But yeah, I prefer a Glock 9 or a 9mm beretta. But no, once I knew them a little bit, no, I'd always bring my own gun. And I wouldn't bring, you know, you're throwing it away, but I always wanted to.

Give me a Glock 9 or give me 9mmrata. That's it. I want something really fast and really light. I don't care if it's plastic. Man, man, man, man, man, the body. All the people say, it's plastic. Glock nine is fast. I can move.

If I'm in a situation, I feel like I need to be more accurate. I may have to hit from a little farther. I need a nine. You know, I need the barretta just because it's metal. Recoy's a little better. But that's all I ever used. I never tried to use anything else because that was the only thing I was comfortable with. And in that moment, do what you're comfortable with.

I don't care if it's a 44 Magnum. If you think you can hit, that's what you're comfortable with. use it, but feels good with your hand. And then how do you, how do you ditch that? Throw it away. Really? Like, when you're at the Rio Grande, I mean, I could leave it in my bag and, you know, I can tell Homeboy to dump it for me. A coyote dump it somewhere.

Like, bro, you dump that gun out there once we start traveling out there. Good luck. You find all kinds of guns. I would love to be a scuba diver to just go to the bottom of that river. Oh, dude, some of those bricks that are sealed, like, Johnny, is this good? Hey, man. You find so much shit down there, man. I wonder if there's a whole palette, just like saran wrapped, ready to go.

Once we're all gone as a species, they'll dig it up like the dinosaurs. They'll be like, you mean people fought over this stuff? Right, right. But we forget, man, there are people doing life sentences for tobacco, you know, like from a long time ago. Yeah. Everything at some point is, you know. So how did you square this? Like the first time you did it, how did you feel?

Like you had gone from being this Mormon kid who was maybe just a little antisocial, but a good guy, a kid, to now this dude that did something that you can't take back. Well, the same way that Los Zetas made soldiers young, I would already seen violence. Like, they'd at least known I'd had seen violence. Like, after that, as long as that dude vouched, I was good with the pistol, that was okay. Do you think it was the guy getting chainsawed to death in front of you? Do you think that's what first, like... I think that numbed me. Mm-hmm.

I think that made it where, like, like, man, like, that is brutal. Like, I'm trying to be respectful. Like, you're my target. I'm not trying to hit nobody else, bro. I'm watching you for a reason. I don't need a fucking drum on my thing. I'm watching you.

Let's be respectful. I'm going to get four in you, man. I'm sorry. All right? I'm going to try not to aim for your face. I want you to be sent off right. But, like, I'm trying to watch you to do that properly. Like, quit being fucking, like, don't be malicious or shit.

Get the job done to fuck out, man. Why do you think they contracted you? I mean, in Mexico, you get away of murder. Lots of people there, yeah. Why do they need you to come from the north? Well, you can never ask that question, but I could only come up with two circumstances. If I get caught, there's no repercussions for you.

I don't know who you are. I never actually met you. And then other than that, because you're going after someone that you don't have permission to. Oh, so you think you might have been hitting somebody. That could be your homeboy. You want a spot, but it's not my business.

But, yeah, why did y'all hire me? But I sat for a couple years, and that really is the only two things I could come up with. Other than that, I'm not trying to ask. I want to want to ask. I want to want, but, like, man, less than you know what, those people are better. Just do your job and go home. Yeah. And so, and then you'd go meet the same coyote to take you back across the river, or it would be something different? So I do a couple, but, yeah, for particular jobs, it's their guy.

So, yeah, it's someone either I know or I've known before he has a reputation. Right. I knew a few guys from Eagle Pass and McCallon, but definitely would not. I don't, you know, you're like with the faction. and you're not like a, I can't ask you to do that with me. Right. I can actually be on this side and take me over there, but I'm not going over there without permission.

So again, it's always going to be back to their guy. Right. And it may be a different guy, but it's always their people. They need you to get back. They don't want me to get caught. That's the whole point. That's where I was kind of like, that's why y'all are doing it like that.

You know most of the time you're sending me someone, you ain't got permission to put hands on it. Right. Why would you want me back? Right, right. And if they had permission, they wouldn't need you. The bosses would greenlight it. Dude, they have a dude, there are dudes out there that make, dude, they have kids out there that make your favorite rapper look pussy.

Like, would they talk about hats? And let's be honest here. Okay, let's be honest here. You're a rapper. You don't got a couple hats, but you ordered the other 15 while you rapping. Like, no, I know kids that are, I don't know them, but they'll tell me about children that are like. Murder. For real.

Yeah. Like, it's normal. Like, it's, it's sad. And they wear hats like you. Yeah. Yeah. If you pull it down a little more, bro, that's the nautical look. right there.

Yep. That's how I'd be walking when we go around. Yeah, you keep a low. Now, did you worry about surveillance? Because they do have a lot of surveillance, even in Mexican cities. Yeah, but I was never in an area where you're having a big battle.

Like, you're not in a right, you're in control here. At this time, I was having problems. And you never got your biometrics taken. Like, you never went through an official Mexican crossing. No. There you go.

Wow. So as you start doing this, do you still work? on the smuggling side? No. Okay, so you gave up the smuggling shit. Because I don't want to take that risk. You know, and sure, could I work my way up to where I'm moving people?

Yeah, but all these guys are the same. You guys come, you do too much Coke. Dude, I'll see these guys make five grand. First thing they do, go to the mall. Do you have $1,000 of Versauchess? You just spent 20% of what you risked for peri. Bro, I can't be around people like that. These guys over here were more professional, sophisticated.

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So how did you not become a drug addict? Because we've met a lot of killers in Mexico, you know, through interviews and doing this show. And every one of them is they have to numb themselves from the stuff that they've done just to live with themselves. How did you not get addicted? I did, but I was a drug dealer. So like, I was more of a binge addict. Like, you could, me and you could get an ounce of Coke, I'll run through it. I don't eat it the next day, but the next day it's a couple outer all to keep up because I'm tired. You know, it's, I'm going to the bar and realizing like, I have so much adrenaline all the time now. I mean, where she worked, I could get three tequilas in a row.

Doubles. Right. You fine. Like, but yeah, it was really, like, I realized, it took a long time to realize, like, that's not a normal everyday routine. Because then you start hanging out with your friends, your normal friends. And you realize, like, wow, I can't. It's been a three-hour conversation. There's nothing I could jump in on.

I don't know about that show. Yep, missed that thing. Oh, my God. I don't even know that rapper. I didn't know. Yeah, and it's like that. That's how deep you were. Yeah, I can't even have normal conversations with my friends.

So you had your real, you had your normal friends still? At the time, yeah. I never involved them or thought that was cool. I never told them. I never like put them on a lick with me. Yeah, they were just normal people. Like.

Mormons or high school friends? No best friends were Mormon. I met some good people. they were Mormon. I still talk to some of this day, but no, high school friends. Right, right, who are now working jobs and had good lives. Yeah, very good lives, yeah. Would you go to your dad's house for, like, Saturday dinner, or when do the Mormons do their shit, Saturday or Sunday? Oh, family home evening is Monday. You, like, do a thing to family. So, like, but every night when my dad, we had to eat dinner together at his house. Yeah. But when I, when I was,

okay, so you're talking about when I was at Mexico, I didn't see them. I didn't talk to anybody. that whole time. When it got that real, I didn't talk nobody. When I got arrested, I didn't tell my parents, I bailed out. Like my friend spotted me the money, I paid him back. I fought my case. I'd already signed for time, and my dad's a real estate attorney. So he had actually helped this guy get this property I was living on, and that's how he found me. He came to me. I was about to go to prison. I didn't see nobody. I didn't talk to anybody. When he got that real, I was like, nah, man, this is like some real motherfuckers right here. Like, it's crazy. These people are, I'm just never seen. Like, they're nice people.

But it's like you have to be genetically, you have to be instilled to be violent, bro. And sometimes just from what you see, it's not even like you a monster. It's like you was a product of your environment. It's bad. I didn't want to ever see people near that that I knew. What was the worst thing you saw, not that you participated in, but that you saw just in the course of being around being that deep within the cartel? They kept a guy alive for four days. I was there to pick up his body, but they blow-torched his nuts.

they blow towards the bottom of his feet, his tongue was out. He had his fingernails missing and a couple of these little nubs like that. I guess they was trying to make it go as long as they could. But when I went and grabbed him too, the fucked apart is they had like banana bags. Like they're trying to keep him alive too. I don't know what he did, but yeah, we went and picked him up. And that was on the Mexico side? Yeah, yeah, we picked him up.

Yeah. Like, we picked him like, yeah. Like, I'm grabbing little nubs and shit, yeah. And then disposed of them? I asked about that, like, because that was the first time I dumped something for him. I actually asked the dude, like, how they do that. I got the guy to translate, but he, they, bro, they just hit a biodiesel. Like, they don't use, like, sephoric acid or, like, whatever you see on Ozart.

He's like, no, it would just, you shut him down to bones and throw them out there. No one's going to find them. Wow. That's how he, that's explained to me. Wow. And you never learned Spanish? A little bit, but no, because when you're at the border, there's so many different people from so many different parts of Mexico. It's like, you say pedico, and they're like, no, we say it like this.

And I got tired of that. Every time I'm corrected with the grammar, like, no, here we say it like this. I'm like, guys, guys, guys, last time it was a Honduran. Today, it's this guy from extra rhinosa. I can't keep up people. I know. Yeah. It drives me nuts.

Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. The slang is just crazy. But you know what I'm saying, though. Perico, I'm talking about cocaina. Yeah, yeah, powder. What's the matter with you? Right.

So how did you not get involved in drug running? Like, if you're this deep. I've been asked twice. I'd done it to help, you know, somebody. But again, like, someone on this side, like, it was just a faction. It was just like a guy like, hey, I run some people. Can you help me get Coke? I did it for him twice.

Paid me good. $2,500. Right. Four hours of my time, both times. It's cool. Had it like how I liked it, bro. I was like, I want to get paid. I want to go.

I don't want to stay with all your dudes drinking and smoking weed, whatever the fuck they're doing down here. Like, talking about trapping. Dude, there's 5,000 people here. What are you going to, like, you have to get permission to even do that. It's like, bro, what are y'all doing? Like, no, pay me, I want to go. So when you're, you mainly operated in Eagle Pass when you were down there, right?

That was like on your Texas hub. That was the first time I got introduced. I'd been there a couple times, yeah. Were you also in McAllen? Yes. Okay. And Hildago, Texas. The people there are operating, even on the American side, have to have permission from the Mexico side?

Don't know for McCallon. I knew closer my connects, like if I needed. little things, a weapon or something last minute, I'm calling someone an Eagle Pass. This is where I knew people where I got started. I could always go down there and know somebody. McCallin, I had talked to too many dudes. Like, if I'm hanging out, they got a hotel for me.

I'm going to get the call. I'm going to cross with the coyote. Meet them somewhere. We're going to go together. Like, I'm not meeting too many people. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

That makes sense. That makes sense. The stories of them smuggling people across, you said they would throw people out to get caught. They will sacrifice. Just like they will with drugs. We could all be going in with five keys, and one of us is going down. It's just they'll do that with runners like they will.

But typically, that's the crash dummy. For instance, we had a guy, and we knew we were going to do it after three runs with them. Why? Because you came to a town, 5,000 people, when you should have gone to a town with a million, because you are covered in fucking tattoos. You are covered in fucking, like, we knew, bro. He's like, we're not going to do it. But, yeah, you're going to, one of these loads, you're going to get caught,

and they're not going to even mention you. We're going to know, yeah, You were to, sorry, buddy. And he doesn't know he's about to be a crash dummy. Yeah, no, no. So they phone it in to the, and they were like, hey, the guy covered in tattoos, he's got work in the lining of the car. I've never seen it, but yeah, that's what they do.

And then they pass fucking as many cars as they can. Well, you also get the crash dummy for this reason. What are you on, bro? Because I love it. That's what we want to know. What are you on? Because, like, how are you going to react when they get you? Are you going to burn off?

Oh my God, bro. That's beautiful. Thank you. Because they're going to follow you. How are you going to react when they catch you, the person they called on? If you're like a meth head, are you going to burn off? We want that. We want 20 cops to follow you.

That's good. Dude, are you scratching a fentanyl? Man, bro, I'll tell you what. Don't even think about it, bro. I'll give you this address, drive straight there, drive through. Like, are you going to react crazy? We want you to. Because they're going to follow you.

And if not, well, then you just got popped. I mean, hopefully the other two cars still make it through. because they're going to do it tomorrow too and the next day and the next day. So there's an endless amount of people that want to get involved. Yeah. Did you know anybody like you,

like white guys, or normal, maybe not even necessarily white, but normal kind of middle class people from Houston that either got involved in smuggling, drugs,

wet work like you ended up doing? Or were you the only one? I knew a guy that, from Montgomery County that tried, and I actually had to call him his brother before this interview, but yeah, I told him not to... When he went to Eagle Pass, it was doing it,

he had to get asked to leave. Because I was like, bro, this isn't... Like, he's at a hotel, and he's telling me, like, the first time I heard him out there, and I called him that he had a rival with the guy, and he's got this little pistol when I drive down there that's maybe got six shots in it. Dude, these guys are going to fuck you up.

Like, this is it. I called his brother. He went back and stayed away. But other than that, I didn't know anyone personally from Houston or... that I knew and then I met them down there. No. Did your parents wonder where you were?

What did you tell your parents when you were just in this black hole? Disappeared. He just got rid of your phone and... Disappeared. Do you think that's the only way to do it? Yeah. To avoid your family but also the cops? You kind of have to disappear, right?

That and just desensitize yourself to love. Like, don't be love, bro. Like, nothing's personal. Like, I love some of those guys down there because of the barn. but in my head I also knew, bro, if you're a problem, I'm going home. I hope it's never that situation with my head with any of these dudes. I'm going home. So, yeah, like, staying with my family and not having love.

Like, yeah, you got to train yourself. Like, don't, you're going to do it, do it. Don't fucking involve them people. Don't be, don't get all messed out the game, go down there and go see your people. Fuck. Or go rob someone and go see your people. Fuck you doing. What do you go?

You want to be a street dude, go on street. Like, you know, that's some, and especially when you get at that level, don't fuck around. These two will follow you. you can't hide for these people. They're international. Look, when Elon Musk goes up to space, they're going to be in space. It's what it's.

Like, you're not stopping them, you know. You go to another galaxy, they'll be there too. Don't worry about it. They're so motivated. Yeah. Like they're, you know, most people are like, oh, if I got to do all this to be involved in crime, I'm not even going to do it, bro. I'm just going to get a job.

These guys, like, they're relentless. Is it poverty? Is it power? What drives them to keep them doing this? you know? I mean, I would ask the Mexican government that, like... Well, the fear of poverty for sure, right? It's still very poor in Mexico.

So it's like people, yeah, I'm going to risk it all. But yeah, I just... Like, how are you not out of... You trade... You were with a number... Our number one trader is Mexico. Where do you fuck y'all have money? Take care of your people.

You wonder where you lost the love of the people when Pablo could build a subdivision and you couldn't. Like, bro, because these dudes buy the love. Yeah. I wasn't out dropping off food during COVID. What did these dudes do? They dropped off food. And then what are they going to do?

And the sad thing is, is this pretty funny? Because their tactic is very simple. Our people are going to be happy as long as we profit. Other than that, if we don't profit, I don't care of there's a fucking war going on here. We ain't telling nobody. We ain't going to knock on. Hey, y'all get out of here. There's war.

Like, people are going to be innocent. Y'all are the government. How are y'all not, like, take care of your people first? They're going to keep doing that. They're broke. They're poor. Some people hungry out there. Like, God damn.

Did you hear about the organization having people hit on this side, like sending people up to Houston or... Oh, yeah, the people will travel. So they will do that. They will travel, yeah. There's no... Yeah, because it's a principle.

I was talking about this with Matt Cox the other day, because, you know, we do a murder podcast now. I love, yeah. Go check out the murder, man. See, that's a little subtle little plug right there. Okay. We were saying the only way to get away with the hit now is to send somebody

internationally to smuggle them over, have them do the job, and then go back. Like they cannot pass any kind of checkpoints. They cannot have any kind of... Wait, wait. Okay, Matthew Cox is a podcast. Where do y'all do this podcast? Oh, I mean, we do it, you know,

I don't want to go into all that. But we basically kind of what you did for them being smuggled across, not passing through any kind of government checkpoints, not having any connection digitally to entering the country and no, basically no digital footprint. No text messages on phones that can be pinged.

No, these are burners. And I don't go back with the burner. No. You dump it. What does a burner look like in 2017, 2018? Like an Android. Like a Samson Talk Android that you get at Walmart. That's a better way.

Right. And then the person, buys the phone, do they supply you with the phone when you get over there? Eventually, I bought phones because I would bring it and let the guy do whatever. It didn't take a blog and do whatever he's doing. But no, most of the time they have a phone for me, but I came up on a bunch of phones, on a bunch of these one time. Like a guy had stolen him, I bought like $100.

Right. He sold him $25 pop. Yeah, so I literally bought $100 of these one time, not a joke. Because I was like, well, man, I've had to use like, I've had to use like 80 of these in a month. I mean, why not? What's wrong with having like all of them already at my house? Now all I got to do is buy the prepay cards and cash.

I go send people to do that for me. Right. And go get that prepay card on the one. Right. Because you can't be on camera buying any of that. You can't buy shit with cars, bro. Do not even cash. You can't even buy shit with cash, though,

because that could still be traced to you. If they somehow get the number that's connected to a body, they can ping all the way to where it was purchased. And if they have your dumb face on camera, it's game over. Yeah, except in the U.S. they would. And we got time for that over there. No, no, it's not going to happen over there. But I'm saying they could.

No, yeah, here it would be a problem. But I try to just kind of like how I saw them do it, I'm going to do it. Like, okay, well, I'm going to get the phone. But whoever knows how to do that, like, make it however, I'm not trying to look that up on YouTube. I'll let someone do that. Yeah, yeah, don't look it up. But the reason I did that is for this reason.

There was one thing that I could get on that phone that I knew I could keep, which was I didn't like that I didn't have the translate on those. The ones they they gave me had no translator. I like when I bought those because even when he did whatever, I had the Google translate without my shit having to be on there because, bro, I didn't know a lot of Spanish. You kind of do need that sometimes. And when you're handing me a phone and I can't bring mine, it kind of...

Would you have a picture of the target? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Obviously, right? Oh, it was a good picture, but... Was there any time that you backed out? Yeah, but that was because of work with the weed plug, I was helping him with something.

I already had a prior arrangement. But other than that, most of the time I was pretty active. Okay. Yeah. But there was one time I did remember having to say no, but it was just because I was already doing something. Okay. But it's not like you would be down there.

No, no, no, no, no. You already took the money. It took the money. The money is the deadline. Clock starts. The hourglass flips. There's no choice at that way. You got to have done.

There have been arrangements made. Again, it's like they'd always say to be unusual circumstances. Like arrangements has been made. this has to get done, and I'm not going to ask nothing. It ain't my business. Okay, let's get it done. And there's no going back and giving them the money back? Oh, no. I've never asked that. I doubt it. I mean, yeah, but they'd probably blow my head off.

You think they could have found you even in the U.S.? Yeah, they could have killed me anywhere. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's just so great. Active members, bro. Yeah.

So, no, yeah, nowhere, dude. They're everywhere. Did you think about, did you have a contingency plan if you did get picked up by the cops in Mexico? No, die. No. No. When I saw that guy get chainsaw and I have, die. Who gives the fuck?

I'm here. What are you going to do? What to shoot a cop here? I mean, no disrespect. Don't slow enforcement. But y'all aren't going to take me to jail. And y'all may portray me as a monster whenever if I had to do that. But, like, y'all would take it torture me if I didn't try to shoot out with you.

So you would shoot it out with them to try to get away. I mean, it's not, it sounds crazy in the moment. What am I going to do? I don't have my ID. I did not cross legally. You find out who I'm with. I'm going to be in a Mexican jail anyways. I'm dead.

I don't know if I'm going to get pretent. by them. We need to discuss that. I'm not risking that. Like, no. Whatever it is, let's do it. Because I'm not, I can't, yeah, no. I don't, this is the better alternative to whatever else you all try to do. Wow. Might as well just die quick, man. Did you say your prayers before you did it? No, because you shouldn't pray to God and you do evil stuff. Like, I don't believe in that. And I did see guys do the Santa Mort thing, but like, I'm not going to do that. It's no disrespect. You know, she's just the queen of the underworld, but like, yeah. So you saw guys praying to the The Santa Muerte?

No, I saw people do the tributes. Like, they would buy stuff. So I've watched a few houses, and they've had some pretty interesting tributes. I saw one of a dude. He said it was real gold. I don't know if it was as heavy as fuck. That was the coolest thing I saw. It was a statue.

It was like this big, but I swear God, wait, like 10 pounds. But it was cool. I don't know if it was all gold. It looked like it. But that was the craziest thing I ever saw. Wow. Yeah. What was the craziest, like, trap house in Mexico that you saw with, like, the most hardware,

the most crazy dude? No, I mean, like I wouldn't go to the trap houses. I would have a reason. Right. Not there to, you know. I don't even need to go there to like get like to score because I'm not using. So no. Just there, your job, go home. But you'd be, you'd have safe houses usually, right? Well, I have places where they're housing me, but it's like a hotel. I was never like in a house. Yeah. Never in a house. Never. And again, that would probably be something they utilized for someone else there.

Like, put me in a hotel. Like, because you probably own the motel. I mean. So I cannot believe you would go from a hit. to a motel, a hotel, and then you'd just be chilling. Well, you got to wait. I mean, order a room. Well, you have your getaway time to get away. But yeah, I could be 20 minutes away from there. I could be 30 minutes away from there.

But you're going to get your car. You got to dump that car. You get another car. I already typically have that set up as long as the plan goes good. And are you responsible for that setup? Or is that, is it all from A to B set up for you? The car, the car, they'll give me, but I'm never taking what they give me. I had someone that could help me get a car because they wouldn't always give me the best vehicle.

Like, one time I, I basically saved more time having a Ford pickup instead of a car. I tried to get over this. I had an idea and it worked, but I needed a truck to get over this ramp, like this little concrete block, and if I used the car it wasn't going to happen. I was the first time I looked for someone else to get me a truck because I was like,

dude, this would save me five minutes. If I could just drive over this curve, get out of this little spot right here. But no, they would leave cars, but it's not like you get to pick and I'd prefer to know what I have and what my extra vehicle is. Right. Because I've had some some shit boxes.

where it's like, hey, dude, I don't even know, like, this thing could smoke out when I get to the fucking, before I get to the border and then I got to walk. I'm not doing that. But yeah, it's up to you. You can always, like, take your extra precautions. But the only thing they guaranteed me was a coyote. And if I needed a car, but I'd always have the second car. And eventually, I paid just to someone to steal the first car. Cost you $100, bro.

To get a car for me. So we'll lift a car for you for $100. It's a huge. Car theft is a huge business in Mexico. There are so many cars that are like American made over it. It's crazy. I'll probably tell my cousin, hey, man, your BMWs over here somewhere. For sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen the videos of, uh, they're actually stealing cars on this side now? And then they're just ramming them straight through the checkpoints and taking them to Mexico. And then they're gone. I knew a guy that would steal him, but he would use this little thing to steal scat packs. That's really what he'd take. But he always took him to Mexico.

Any cars he stole, he'd take him to Mexico. Really? Yeah. So that still goes on. Yeah. Yeah. He actually was, uh, I saw him at holiday unit in TDC when I was, he was about to go home. and I was about to get in.

Yeah, that was weird seeing him. But yeah, he would always steal cars and he said he'd always take him to the border. Wow. Yeah. After it, you know obviously the coyote that's taking you over there and then where you're staying. Always a hotel.

It's always going to be same place. And is it going to be, is it going to be in the city or is it going to be kind of... It's going to be in the city. Okay. It's going to be in the city. Yeah. Nowhere out near, the farther you are

to the outskirts of Rhinosa, there's a lot of small little towns. Right. You don't want to because everybody knows everyone. That's where it gets really dangerous. That's where it gets rough because, yeah, that's where you can do ambushes. That's where you can hit vehicles. That's where lots of crazy stuff happens.

Like, that's where guys have told me where they're like in real gunfights. Like they have rifles. Like if you're hitting a big enough load, they'll pull up with the big old thing. I've never seen one, but they'll have a big old thing, turret. And yeah, when it's war, bro, everybody's going to war. And your jobs that you did were these typically at night or during the day? I always did them at night. I could have done it whenever.

I mean, but yeah, at night. Again, getaway time and trying to just car get another car. Yeah. And you never use silencers? No, never. You don't got to out there. Yeah. And you don't want to.

I mean, just, man, like, you don't, that even looks worse, you know? I look like James Bond or something. You know, they could take me like, you know, they're going to torture me a professional fucking federalities or something. I don't want to do that. Right. Yeah, that would be bad. I'm just giving my pistol. I don't need modifications, nothing.

Right. In and out. In and out. If you watch a person, you're going to. get them. You're going to know where you're getting them and it's in and out. Like, you ain't trying to do nothing else. And these were just young men? A few guys were probably older. Well, I say that now at my age. Yeah, these are guys probably in their 20s and 30s. I don't think I ever did anyone older. You're not going to make it that long out there. You know, you're supposed to elevate

after that. You're supposed to be where I don't see you. So, and then they have the time that you're going to go back. And that's not really up to you. It's up to whenever. That's up to them. Yeah. Right. Whenever they, the cops are off of them. One hundred percent. Their spotters are going to say, okay, your coyotes ready. How many coyotes do you think are just lined up on that river outside of those towns? I mean, there's got to be thousands that are working, right? Or hundreds? It's not hard to find one.

It's just you do want to like make sure you make sure they're credible with someone, like who they're going with. Like, because obviously you'll probably meet whoever they work with on that side. Like they're, you know, that family or faction. Man, you just want to know that they're good. Other than that, be careful out there. If they know what they're doing, it's a smooth walk. It is. Yeah.

For the guy's been doing it. But no, you'll have a dude that tries and walks you off a cliff, literally. I mean, yeah, like he got in the current. Yeah, people still drown. People drown all the time. Yeah. Here's the thing. I never had to think about that until, like, when I went back to Eagle Pass and realized, like, it's a little bit different when they tried to, again, I'm going down there for a guy.

I think I would help them move some people. But, you know, like his coyote just said some things that, like, I remember from a guy telling me that were, like, wrong. And I was like, definitely not going to go with you. Like, you're going to get people killed. Did you, the people hiring you? Was it the same guy? No, I'm always dealing with the third party. And I'm never seeing the same person.

Of course. So, but it would be people on the American side who would approach you because now you kind of have this reputation as a guy that's reliable. Yeah, go to San Antonio, get the phone. Go to San Antonio, get the phone. Yeah. That's how it's organized. It's like, hey, you get a call, go pick up a phone in San Antonio

as someone wants to talk to you. Yeah. And then once I was good, calls, like, I'd get my phone and like I, when I was good, like, no, my call would come quick. But like my first time I waited a couple hours. That was the nervous three or four hours of my life. And I'm just waiting to go move people.

Right. I'm just there for three hours like. So after a job, you obviously have to ditch the burner phone, but you have a main line that they can get a hold of you with. I'm keeping that in my truck. Once I go grab the burner, my vehicle in that stays in San Antonio.

Like nothing goes. Like my ID doesn't go. My truck doesn't go. My truck keys don't go. Yeah. You don't buy anything a couple hours before. Don't even have a fucking receipt in your pocket. Like don't.

Yeah. It's like the old days you were just existing in the world. Didn't have a tracking device on you. Cash. That's it. You know, like it was always cash. I never had to swipe a card. So San Antonio was really like the hub, the jump off point,

whether you were going to Eagle Pass to smuggle people or you were getting smuggled across the border to go to a job. Good location. Okay. Because you can blend in. It's a big city. You disappear. That's the next place you're going to go with the most population.

And you were saying like that's where the migrants, if they make it through the second checkpoint, then get picked up. It's really hard from that point. When you get past all those checkpoints, you know, like Eagle Pass, you're going to go 30 miles past the checkpoint. You're going to pick them up. And from there, your odds of just cruising in the rest of the way are significantly high. Yeah. Did you drop off migrants? To San Antonio twice. Yeah. I did it twice. I went all the way. That was whatever. It's not that big of a dealer crazy.

Are you driving them in a van? Are they in the trunk? No, they're in the car. Like, dude, when you have gone, so an Eagle Pass, when you've gone past that 30 mile point, that means that we have a mile of stretch where there's no state troopers, there's no nothing. And we're maybe at that point, anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour from a main highway where we can blend in. Yeah. No, like you just have them get in the car after that. Some guys do it the crazy way. I've seen a guy have a, well, not, I didn't see it. I saw it on YouTube, but a guy had a trailer with wood,

and they lift up the top like this, and it had like seven people in it. Right, there's laid back. But again, he could be driving from McCallon. May not have to be different circumstances. But there, no, I'm getting them in after. Come on. Like, you're the youngest, you get in the front of me.

Like, you're the pretty girl, you're the young. Cool, being my girlfriend. Okay, you're the youngest dude to me. All right, you're my cousin. Get in. Everyone else getting the back. And did you have, like, radios.

No. There's no spotters like with drug, drug traffickers like caravans. So yes, they're going to, so, and again, it really depends on how sober the guy is. That's running this operation with people. Because eventually when they start getting, you know, little grills in their mouth and it's fucking July,

all right, buddy, like, you're about to crack. It's just a matter of when. Yeah, so when they're good, yeah, you're supposed to have a spotter in the front, a spotter in the back, and the car moving through. But I've seen plenty of people. They start snorting shit,

and then they can't afford them. So then they send one spotter. And then they tell you they're sending spotters and there's no spotter and we're just sending the car. Right. Yeah, I've seen guys do it on the phone. Like just play at people's lives. Wow. Yeah, it seems like all of those low-level cartel movers, right, whether you're drug trafficking, human trafficking, cicada, or whatever.

It seems like everybody is whacked out on Coke or Beth. I mean, I did some of the white down there. That's pretty awesome. I mean, it is. We have, too. It's really good Coke. Yeah, but. But it's just, yeah, it's a lot of people are on a lot of shit down there.

But don't you think that's because you're living in hell. Yeah, no, it's chaos. And you're living in hell and you have, you need some kind of escape. I mean, I'm visiting. They're living. That's horrible. I have it so easy. I don't care what I'm dealing with.

All the things I'm figuring out about me that are bad. Like, they have to live down there. That's unacceptable. somebody needs to fix that Yeah So how many jobs did you do between 2017 and 2019, 2020

when you kind of got out of that life and you got into the drug game How many jobs do you think you did? 16. Okay. Not think, no. That's how many? You know, of course, you're not going to forget that.

16. And did your price go up at all? No. It just stayed at 10 grand. Yeah. I'm an outsider, dude. I'm not here to be the guy where, who's that, man?

They did just $50,000? What? No, just be the same price, be the same guy. This is hard, bro. It's hard. You want to get egotistical out there, but don't. Because these dudes will fuck you up because they bid, boy, you're a different kind of animal. You've had to do that from young.

I don't care how gangster I was. These just have been doing it since young. I am undomesticated to people here. These dudes, to me, I'm domesticated. And I'm knowing what I know about me. I'm like, yeah, these guys are fucking way different. So you're a square compared to these dudes. I'm pussy.

I'm the third-string quarterback. You know, yeah. How do you not tell anyone? Like, did you tell anyone? No, it almost killed me. Yeah, no, for a long time. Even when I went to prison, I didn't talk about that. I was there for manufacturing intent to deliver some drugs.

That's what they knew. I didn't tell anybody about that. I'm not trying to be hot. I'm not trying to have a name nowhere. Like, this is not what... I think when you hold that... It kills you. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it destroyed me. I'm really recently just now addressing me. mental health. And like, I even told my psychiatrist, like, see my life. Like, I'm on two medications. I'm good now. But like, yeah. Do you think that's part of the reason that you're here today that you chose to talk about this? Yeah. People are going to want to know, like, I don't look. I'm going to, I'm, obviously everything I did, I also did learn that, like, I'm capable of running my own business and doing my own thing. And I want to make money and I want

to be happy my way. And what I was doing was wrong. But now I'm going to move on and do other things, but I'm here to tell people, stop fuck the street. Stuff fucked street. Could be a gangster. It's not even fun. They got flat cameras now. It's not even fair. It's not even fair no more. Like, bro, stop the street, man. Because what it does is your mental health, it destroys you. And if not today, not tomorrow, it'd be 10 years from now. It'll kill you. It'll destroy. You become a different person. Yeah. Yeah, it changes you. Like, my dad, they're like, yeah, you change. You're different. Did you, yeah, I was going to ask that. So you never obviously

told any of your regular high school friends. No. And of course not your parents But did they see that change in you? Like when you were... Yeah. Yeah, I just came dark. Like, you can't feel stuff anymore.

Like, you got to think about emotions now. That's where I'm out with life. I got to think about emotions. I think about a person's upset about something. Because, me, it's hard to feel it now. Right. So you don't feel the human energy that most people have... I can.

I just don't have control when. Like, I love that girl in my heart. I go to war for her. But then, like, you know, there's times where, like, she'll be like, I love you and I say it. But, like, I don't, like... I'm, it's hard to feel things. I always catch myself doing that too much

where I'm thinking about like a feeling, like how I'm supposed to feel. And that's, that's not normal. But yeah, look, cold sweats every night. Look, fun fact about that, my wife, so I didn't, I didn't know because I didn't have a lot of long-term relationships. But I'm waking up every night in cold sweat.

I didn't know. She's the first girl, she slept in my bed seven nights in a row. And it was like, yeah, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, we mean. Like, I know I wake up sweaty, but like, yeah, I'll be, I don't know, doing the most. Yeah. Memory loss,

bad social anxiety. Like, my forehead will sweat, my hands will shake, hyperventilent with my hands. Yeah. Yeah. I'm recently on medication. It's been different. Mental health will fuck you up. So, y'all fuck the street, man.

Y'all quit being gangster because I'm white and I was Mormon. I feel like I would get four stars on GTA. And that's just, it's not fun. It's terrible, bro. It'll kill you. Did you ever go back to the Mormon church during this? time, you never went back to church. No, no. Great people. Like some people I met their best people in my life, but no, I never went back

to church. Right. Yeah. Right. Did you ever, you know, this whole insane journey got started with your high school friend. Not really friend, because I didn't talk to him much. Right. He, this, the uncle, his uncle that puts you on driving around this heroin, did he ever find out what you were doing? No, because we were even. And at that point, I had a different reputation, even if you did call me. Like, bro, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? I'm nothing to lose, bro.

I'll spray the house and I'll call police after. There's drugs in there. Bro, I will. If I have to win, I'm a win. But no, there's always respect with him. But if he ever called me back, what are you going to say at that point? I'm grown now. I'm a monster.

You a monster? I'm a monster too. Like, what do you want to do? You know, which, you know, like, but no, never. He never called me. I never checked it on him. Like, I think we did our business. Now is it.

Nothing ever came back to either person. So there's still me. respect. Right. Did that guy that did the chain sawing? I never talked to him again, because again, I never actually dealt with him. You didn't know who he was. Yeah. Right. For all I know the guy that I didn't even, like for instance, I know for a fact that day, I didn't drop him off anything. So I wasn't even the guy. Right. Like that dropped it off to him. But like, we all had to go. Anyone who drove that day had to go as principal. Yeah. Yeah. And the uncle might not have even known that that that was going to happen to the guy. No. I, I did not ask. And I, I,

even if he did, he'd look like he did know. He was pretty good. That's not really a black thing to do. I don't like stereotypes, but black guys generally, they don't like doing that kind of shit. It gets their shoes dirty. Wait, what?

It was him? It was the uncle? No, no. No, you're right. Like, they have... Like, they do their business. Yeah. And like, that's it.

You know, they don't do the crazy torture. That's some cartel. Mexican cartel shit. Yeah. I'm not sure that you have to, but that's how they do the business. I mean, when you see one guy doing it, you're like,

is this when it takes, to be here, you're not going to question it. You're just going to try to go up that way too. Yeah. Because when you're going up in that game, how much are you really trying to change? You see this dude making it? You're probably going to try to, you know, you go follow that.

It just makes you that person. Sometimes you don't realize it. Well, I think we're all capable of every human being on some level is capable of heinous things. The reason that in countries like the United States and Europe, there's criminals that are psychotic, just like Mexicans, but the difference is, their government lets them get away with it.

So it breeds these kind of animals and the cycle perpetuates, right? And to survive in that environment, you do have to be a crazy psycho killer. So I think politics and the country you live in has a big part to play in that too, right? Yeah. Okay, so you start, did you save this money that you were getting for all these jobs? I'm always putting it back into packs. Okay, yeah. go into that.

Just, you know, weed, wax, carts, adderals, Xanax, little cocaine, methamphetamine, and the best one was probably the oxy cotton. It wasn't pharmaceutical, but, like, it wasn't from, like, it wasn't like an actual from a pharmacy, but I went and got some tested. When you go to, like, a Leslie's pool store and you test your water, well, they test for, like, five things,

but those machines can test for a lot. Well, you know, we knew a guy who had a calibrated machine and he could test your drugs. But here's the thing. If he liked the drug, you have to give him more because he's going to test some and do some. That was the most expensive test I ever got. I had to buy at least 40 oxy. And I don't think he needed all those to test it. But as he said, there was no fentanyl in it.

And he said if he was to grade it as a regular pharmaceutical drug, he was like it would be like a B-minus generic brand, which was good for me. I was like bet. That I had the Coke, the meth, and the oxy. I had two friends at the border. They didn't want to be down there no more. They started selling in San Antonio, and I would front them that. I didn't ever take that back with me. But weed, wax, carts, I was actively selling that in my county back home.

Oh, so you have money on the street. Yeah, but all me. You were investing, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I wanted to go to Cali at some point. I knew you might as well get in all.

Give as much cash you can and go. Right. Okay. So you're kind of, that's wild. So while you're doing hits in Mexico, you're also building this. this drug business. Yeah, on Snapchat. That's pretty interesting.

On Snapchat, right, this is the Snapchat era. So you were killing it with the wax and the weed, and talk about that and how it's changed. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now, that I was a condesora of. I had a friend, and, you know, I didn't like going out partying and stuff.

I would literally go to his house, and he had a little grow, and I was like, bro, I want to learn. And I was like, I'll do one even better. How much do you spend to get your soil and get your stuff for your 20 plants you're maintaining? oh, you know, three, four hundred bucks, and, you know, that's for three or four months. Done, just show me.

Anytime I come over, you'd show me that stuff. He showed me concentrates, which was my biggest thing. It was butane wax. It was all brown, nasty. You know, you hit it on a bong. You put a little bowl and you dab it. Really strong, taste really gross. I would sell that, and then it graduated to gold wax.

It had more flavor. It was just, you know, we call it a slab. It's on parchment paper. Then I was also dealing a little bit of weed, but wax was my highest profit margins. I mean, I was paying maybe $10 a gram, but I'm selling it for $25, and I'm flipping it like a half pound

to a QP every day, less than that down. Just in little grams. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, so you're fucking busy. Yeah, I kept it very, again, I think the PTSD, it made me so wired. I just was very, very active, yeah. My plug in Houston love me just like,

people like me at the border. I was effective, and I took my job series. Are you cooking it yourself or are you buying it wholesale? You mean like the wax? Yeah. No, no, no. People are, I'm buying it wholesale from my guy. Okay. Got it.

So you're getting like QPs of just fucking wax. Yeah, just slabs. Which again, then it's, I know it's not like a pound of people, but it was hard to sell that. Most guys were selling it 50 a gram, 40 a gram. I was selling 25, but like, I mean, it took me a week and I was clearing four ounces a day. And that was after just going to him like a week later, I'm like, hey, I need four ounces every day now. And people are hitting that with the blow torch? Yeah.

Fuck. I did that once. I was like, if I survive this, I never fucking again. Yeah, it's a lot stronger now. Yeah, they've come up to modern day now. So, and you're marketing this on Snapchat. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I say marketing.

It's kind of sad to say this now, people, but when you're making butane wax, you're cooking in it at such a high temperature, there's no flavor. So it's literally just shit. But everyone always hit it and be like, what do you tell your plug when you smoke some of his weed? this good shit tastes good. Okay, well, all this is burned the same. All this tastes the same. So I would just make up names.

Luke Skywalker, right here, boom. Like, I'm giving different names, and they're like, it's advertised to them, but to me, I'm like, dude, this all tastes the same. Then it graduated to gold wax, and that had real names. I gave it that. Carts was Brass Knuckles and Big Chief. I always saw those a lot on the street.

And then weed, whatever. I try to get like a half pound, pound, you know, some Blue Dream, something, you know, OG Cush. And then you just take a picture of it and post it on staff. And tell people where you're going to be? Shop is open 8 to 8. I'd post that every day in the morning to show it's like work. It's like really open.

And I'd always put it at the bottom. I put everybody make appointments. So no one gets me to me right then. I could be right then five minutes away from. You're not getting it. Make an appointment. So what that started to do is create structure. Once I'm doing this with 20 people, it's still not really going.

But once I did this with 500 people, I could probably clear about 200 people a week doing it like this, the system. Because it got to the point where 30 people are me and me at Bank of America. Like, okay, because now what I'm doing is I'm doing this 8 to 8, and I'm going out and serving people. When it gets busy, hey, guys, they think I'm driving from 8 to 11, but really, I'm setting everyone up for an 11 o'clock rush. I'm going to have 30 people there, get and get out. Okay, well, then I got my little licks in between, but at 3 o'clock, I'm going to stay close to the city, take everyone in Conroe, but at 3 o'clock, I got another 30 people. I'm meeting in a different area. Let's get that one.

Let's go back. Let's get more. And, of course, when that started going like that, I had to see my plug like daily to get wax, cards, weed, Adi's, annex, but yeah. So does this, did you ever have to put that aside because you got a call from the South? Yes. So the deal with that was then is I'd still post the shops open 8 to 8. The shop, it's just to look like a regular shop.

But really, I had a guy and every $100 he made, which I'd only let play is $100 and more. Sert get served then. He gets $20. So you get 20% of every, that's how I try to keep it. You know, you make a decent amount when you go do 15 licks for me today, you know. So you could be doing a job in Mexico And your wax business is still moving He's gonna run it, yeah

And I don't have to call him, check on him That one time I was there for four days in Mexico Where I'd stay a little longer? Oh, dude God, I love that man Because I was supposed to be back in two And he just kept to go And you didn't have your phone on you

So you don't get to call him bro I'll know when I talked to San Antonio He knows every time I'm gonna call him And I get somewhere safe Other than that, like just keep it going But yeah, that two days, the extra two days He'd not have to do that. That was nice.

So let me ask you this. Making all this money, you got a really kind of a booming drug business, wax business. Why keep doing these hits? Do you think you were addicted? Do you think a part of you craved that? Yeah, I like the challenge. Where was the morality? Was it all gone at this point?

What do you mean morality? Didn't you know what you were doing was wrong? Not wrong like illegal, wrong like... Yeah, it looks like it. Wrong like evil. Yeah, no, I'm really, I was, yeah, I'm a, as my brother says, I'm a bad person learning to be good. And I did, but it just, you don't think about that then. Like, you've gone so far at that point, it's just normal.

It's just a normal thing. It's, you know, like, yeah, my friends would not know. I would openly go and then I would come and hold my nephew, not knowing, like, you know, he knows I'm selling, but he doesn't know, like, I'd go over there. You just smoked a motherfucker. Yeah. Wow. Well, it's interesting because you talked about at the beginning how growing up in a strict Mormon household,

you had to live two lives. I had to live two lives. And now you're living the most extreme form of a double life. And you love it. It's thrilling. Because even though it's all crazy, I'm gone away from it, when you take it away from it, you're like, I don't know who I am.

I don't know what to do. Like, I got out. I didn't know what to do because I was like, damn, bro. This is like what I was good at. But then, like, I got family. So, you know, I don't want to do that to him. Okay. what was the last year? When did you stop? Why did you stop going down there?

Oh, so the kid that went out there from Montgomery County, that was that, like the circumstances of what he did, he was moving people, he left 40 grand and his ID in a safe, it got hit. And I know, like, I know his family. Like, his brother gave me a job on time and I really needed it. like, you know, I was in his house when, like, he got his new license. Like, bro, your address is these people, and he burned off. It created a whole thing. I can't talk about it just because how close I was the family. But, yeah, he knew not to go back out there anymore.

It just created a lot of chaos. And that was the last time I went out there. I took care of somebody I wanted to, but, you know, pussy ass, like, you know, like, dude, your brother had nothing to do with that shit. And it's like, I know, because I know you, I know you got your, like, your driver's license is in that safe. I know your license renewed at his house because I was there today. You got slice renewed.

I didn't took you there. Like, bro, you just ran off. This is your brother. This is his wife. She has kids. Like, bro, you just burned off and you think it's like burning off on the plug in Montgomery County. Like you ran off with a pound. That's not what this is.

I never went back after that. So for your own safety because you're connected to this guy who burned the cartel. Yeah. Yeah. No, I got a call later. That was, you know, again, when I realized, I fucking organized these people. Like, I don't, like, it's like I have them on Facebook or something. But yeah, we were in the same county.

And yeah, I did know him. I did know him. It just happened to be. But I wish I did not know him then. Okay. So you stopped and that was like 2019? That was, no. This was, so I'd been in prison.

I got out. And it'd been about a year out. And I saw him on Snapchat with, you know, the ice. So I call his brother and I'm like, what is he doing? And he's like, well, he's down there. And I'm like, I go down and see him, but it's like, bro, you're, like, you got ice, you're, you're, you're, it's fucking July, man, it's 90 degrees. I was like, this isn't where you want to play with that.

Right. And do all that and be cowboy. Like, you don't need to be high and be cowboy. But yeah, he was moving people and just did something stupid. Yeah. So I never went back after that. That was in 2021. I went down to help with that and I never went down again.

Okay. Now, you went to prison. Talk about what you got busted for. Carts and wax. I got pulled over in 2019 in October, and they found like 15 cards, like 12 grams of wax, and my phone, like the phone that I was actively on Snapchat. You know, like they're trying to talk to me and you just hear my thing link to the Bluetooth. Like every 30 seconds. We've been talking 15 minutes.

It's bad. It's bad, bro. They're looking at me. I'm just like, I don't. Who's calling you, man? Who's calling you, buddy? Yeah. But it really, the whole 15 minutes, so obnoxious, bro.

They grab my phone and just see the Snapchat. Just keep coming and yeah. And at this point, weed is legal in Texas now, right, in 2019? In Houston, it's a misdemeanor in certain parts, but no, I'm in Montgomery County. That's north of Houston. It is not. You will go to jail for 10 days if your license plate is, if the license plate fought is too big. They're going to take you for anything.

Gramal weed, whatever. It's manufacturer with intent and deliver controlled substance out there. So it's a felony one So minimum you get us five years And the most they could give you is 99 Yes, I'm not I know, you can look it up It's when you've got the carts of the wax

Control substance And they treat it the same way So my first offer was 12 years My second offer was eight My third offer was five And they looked at my phone So basically they were like Well, you know

You could tell on somebody We know you got a few people Or you could go to trial And get 20 And I told my lawyer I was like man You're just go give me that five We're not doing all that

go get the five. I got the five. I didn't even know what the time. I thought when you got five, you five years of prison. I was fully prepared to do all that. That was a blessing compared to what they could have caught me with, you know? Well, yeah, you must have thought,

you must have sat in yourself. I was happy as a sum of a bitch. Damn, they got five years, like, yeah. Did they find out at the border what happened to you? They must have. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, nothing changed. Like, you know if I'd tell, you know that you'd know first. I didn't tell.

my name wasn't on any paperwork. That's what would have told them that. Well, did you bail out, though, and let them know, hey, I'm getting ready to go away? I, well, I didn't know then because COVID was going on. Like, courts were getting delayed. My lawyer wasn't even showing up. Like, it was, everyone was preparing not to go in. I signed, and it actually took them three months to get me to turn in because they kept shutting down the... Wow.

Yeah. So you got it kind of lucky when you got arrested because they were kicking people out early and... Because you only did what? I didn't even do a year, got an FI-1, which is 30 days to the house. So, yeah. And I got released from the unit I walked into. So you never even got transferred. You never even moved around.

The second time I did, I went to a lot of units. But that first time, no. Total blessing. Went to the transit unit in the same dorm with the same people. Bye. Cakewalk. Even the second time was a cake walk. But then I went to more units.

I went to Ellis. I went to Larry Gist. I went to Holiday. I went to Garza East in Beaumont. I went to a couple the second time. Why did you violate? Oh, they found two weed cards on me, and they tried to give me four years. And I got them to two, and so I have a two, and I have a five with two left.

Either way, I'm doing a year on whichever one they get me. I got a year left on this one. I got two on this one, but I'm only doing a year. So, I mean, it was just a parole violation. But, yeah, they basically just caught me again with a smaller amount I wasn't dealing then. Okay, so you weren't dealing when you got back out. No, I was working two jobs, just, you know, trying to be good. Yeah.

And then you go deal with this one thing. Yeah. I just, you know, I had a couple carts I take home. I keep them at the house. But yeah, I went and picked them up, was going back home, and they just pulled me over. Wow. So how long have you been home now?

A year. Yeah. Since April of last year. I got released from the Walls unit. And that was easy that time? Or what was that time like? That was easy. Did you know anybody from,

did you run into anybody that you knew from Mexico or from the border? Not from the border. A couple guys I did business with in the world in like my county, sure, but no, no one from, yeah. Did you, were there any guys when you were down there on the border that ended up getting roped into big indictments or anything like that? When I was at Ellis, I have a friend and he does have 60. And I knew him like from the world. Yeah, that's the most time I've seen on someone. Yeah. 60 in the feds? No, he's 60 in the state. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. It doesn't seem like those. human smuggling operations, there's never any big indictments like there are with drugs. I mean, because the guy, you're not going to get the guy that has 100 people.

Right. That's five. Right. And it's all, right, you can't, you just can't put it together. People are different than narcotics. Yeah, it's, it's, yeah. And these people aren't going to tell you, man. And it's so decentralized, too. Like, whereas it's easier to group, it's easier for the feds to group together people that have drugs. You know, you can't like... No, the biggest problem is that like, even the guy who let

100 people cross his border when the Biden administration went there, they're going to be like, what's his name? Like, dude, no, he sent a guy who sent another guy to go collect the money and bring it back. You didn't even see the fucking car that he has in his driveway. Like, you didn't even see the car that went to go get the money for the car. Like, come on, bro.

Like, you're not even going to see him. Right. And you're not going to collect... They're not going to go serve any of those. Hey, man, the U.S. that's supposed to talk to you. These was going to shut the door of their face. Actually, you're not if you go to the front yard. They can stay right there and they're going to do it. Yeah. How much, do you know how much these migrants were being charged? Like you, you were there, you were there in the years before COVID and before Biden, but do you know what the average fee was? 15 is what I heard. 15,000? Well, just starting from the top trickling down. Oh, right. So the,

highest fee would be for like. The big guy's getting 15 and then it's trickling down. Did you see any non-mexicans, any Asians or any? Well, Asians, you're probably not, you're going to see a lot of them, let me say that, but you're going to see them with more professionals because their fee is not. They're paying $40,000. Yeah, same for the people from India. It's like 45, 50 Gs. I'm not going to see them.

Like, you're going to have, like, professionals that are, like, someone who's offering that much is showing you that they got, they're going to make it a little bit better. I never saw any Chinese people or India people, but they do move down there. They do, their people are moving. Okay. Yeah, they'll go to Mexico City and start. Right, yeah, they do it. They give them the luxury service.

But even an average Mexican could have been paying $10,000, $8,000. Easy. Wow. Yeah. That is huge business. Yeah. So one of the guys I knew, you know, it's just like getting a Christmas bonus, but like he took two people, you know, the cart to paid him.

But he took him to the guy who was so grateful, handed him $9,000 cash. Like, that was just a good. And that never happens, but like, bro, like, some of these people are like, yeah, you could hit dice like that. Right. I mean, really? I was like, bro, what did you go do? And he was like, no, he tipped me.

I was like, fuck you mean he tipped you, bro. We can't rob him. And he was like, I didn't rob him. I was like, bro, I swear to God. And he was like, no, that's all right. That's cool. Probably a family member that needed, you know, so desperate. But imagine he probably already paid 10 for them to come over and then just say, here you

go. Yeah. You know, he already paid. Like, I have a theory, bro. A lot of these big. industries, you know, people that lobby politicians, lobby the Trump administration, the Biden administration, whoever, they need illegal immigrant.

Immigrants so bad to work in their slaughterhouses, their agricultural fields, their factories, their hotels. I think they have guys on the street that literally just... That recruit the immigrants that are getting smuggled over. I really do. No one has surprised me. They always end up working at, like, the people that have the worst conditions always end up working in the worst places.

And it's like, who's, like, who's paying the bill on this? Right. And who's paying the light bill? Yeah, because a family member is not going to pay. I love my family, but I spent all the money I have to get them across. I'm not giving you a nine grand tip. Yeah. When I just spent 20 racks.

That was the only time I ever saw that, though, in my life. And I could not believe it. Wow. That was so cool. But, bro, like, hey, I knew one guy and he would bring people over. And he was like a good-looking dude. And somebody, you know, he had fun with the, some of the clients sometimes.

But like, that was a regular day with him. And he just, yeah, some of these people, you'd be surprised how grateful they are. It's crazy. Were most of the guys working on this side, American citizens? Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, because they're the ones who can move around, slip around.

Yeah. Yeah, I rarely, rarely. Where I saw a guy like, okay, you work on the other side. Like, and he stuck out. Like, he came to the hotel. Whole vibes changed for everybody. Except me. I recognize it, but it was different when he walked up for people.

How so? Because he was... There's the vibes, bro. He was Mexican. Yeah, you're like, you're, you know, you're someone of importance. You're sent by someone of important status to come back over to Eagle Pass to address something. The vibes were different. I see.

Okay. That makes sense. So you could feel when somebody of power was there. Yeah. Those murder vibes. In there for real. Yeah. And they're giving orders.

No, that was to address something wasn't my business. I was just, we were staying at the hotel, but he had to be. go talk to one of the dudes. And when people of importance were sent over, were they also brought over by the coyote, or would they come through the check? I saw I got pulled up in a car. I was sitting in a hotel, but he pulled up at a car.

I mean, you know. When you were smuggling people over, did you ever see somebody? Because you can tell who's there to work, who's being smuggled in this country because they're desperately poor. Well, it'll be all black. We need you to wear all black.

And also, how I told you for the drugs, we keep one set of reflectors and we'll cover the bags so you can see it. if you're driving by. Right. Well, for the illegals, no, you cut off all the light reflectors. Right. And you wear all black.

So most of the time, actually, most of them are wearing all black. Okay. Yeah. I never saw someone try to come in yellow sweatpants. I didn't have, burn. You're turned around. You're gone. Right.

But did you ever look at somebody and be like, oh, you're coming over here to do a job? Oh, no. No. No. No. I never personally, no one would be in our career. I imagine they would, especially going that way, I'd probably, they'd move them a little bit more privately.

And they do have people that sit here. They do have people that sit, like people on call in regular states. Never met any of them, but they are real. They just have people posted like... Yeah, and of course, they're not making 400 like a guy who's over there. Like deep in Mexico, they're making some real money. Yeah, that makes sense. Bring them over here.

Nobody knows they're here. And just your job is to sit here. And the only thing you're doing is they're going to pay you more. And you know, you hear that and you're like... Wow. Yeah. So you got out the second time. You're home, you're in a relationship.

Well, I've gotten a relationship. I was in a relationship yet. Yeah, I met her. I'd probably been out for like almost a year, a little less. And you're in therapy, which is great. Yeah. Yeah, get therapy people if you've seen violence because it disturbs your soul.

Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, a lot of people are doing the MDMA therapy now. I have friends that are doing the... Microcheros. Microchosing. I really believe in microdosing. It's beautiful. I really do.

It sets your tone for the day, which is hard to do when you've seen stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel okay? Yeah, this is nice. Okay. Yeah. I need to do this.

I was nervous. That's a curious thing in my life. Yeah. Wow. Well, thanks for coming, man. That was a really incredible story. Do you worry at all about any of these things you've talked about coming back on you? Nope.

You want to come, come, come, bro. I'm not, you can't be biased to death, bro. You want to go out there and kill people, hey, when it's time to get killed, I'm not saying don't cry or do whatever you're going to do, pray, do it. But like, bro, if it comes, it comes. Like, God got me, man, you're going to get me, come get me. So have you come back to God?

Sounds like you've come back to God. Well, I believe in God. I'm just not the Mormon guy. You know what I mean? I believe in God. Even when you were doing that? Yeah, I'm not praying or talking to him, but like, I'm aware he's there.

You know, she's like, man, I think you'll just see me when you see me. Like, we'll figure it out. Like, you know, you're gonna send me to hell, send me to hell, see me to hell, I've been there. If I get to go with my people, cool, let's go. But like, wherever you can send me, it's rocking and rolling. Like, you know, I'm gonna be me. Like, if I'm in hell with the monsters, let's be monsters.

You send me in heaven with my people, cool. I'm gonna go be a piece. Like, but you just gotta make it work at that point. Do you worry about any of your family or friends seeing this on the internet? No. Y'all watch it. I love all y'all, but it is what is. It's the truth.

Like, I'm gonna fuck. You know, it's what it is. That's my story. Yeah, y'all don't know about that, but it's okay. I still love y'all. I'm sorry if I hurt somebody y'all, but fuck you, you know. I'm here now. So they haven't, nobody from your normal life has ever found out about...

When I came out of prison, obviously there were questions, but even then I didn't really try to talk about all that till later, because that was different. Like the drugs and stuff was enough. They're like, oh my God. Right. And I'm sitting there like, wow, we could, you know, we could do another movie. movie. We could like keep going. And yeah, I didn't want to, that fucked me up really, like seeing that because I was like, damn, we're not even to the next like, like, we haven't got to part two dog. Right. Yeah, yeah, you guys have no clue. You think this is bad. Now, yeah, what did that,

what did the, your dad's side, specifically, the Mormon side when you went away for, for selling drugs? I mean, did that blow their whole world up or? No, because my cousins knew I was kind of crazy. So they just, like, we love you, be safe. But my family had seen me in so long. I came to my aunts, they wanted to do like a little party kind of like for me, but, you know, it was just family. But like, yeah, my aunt gave me a hug and we really just didn't talk about it because they know I'm just trying to move past that. They know that now I'm present.

I'm not in the streets anymore. So really to them, it's just like, do whatever you got to do. So they brought you back. Yeah, absolutely. They accepted you back. Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course. That's amazing.

Yeah. That's amazing. I'm happy to hear that. Well, Tyler, thank you so much. I really, really, really appreciate it. And, you know, best of luck, is there anything that we need to promote for you or anything like that? No, I'm just Tyler. Yeah.

All right. I don't got Instagram. Well, I do, but it was really just so I could talk to Matthew Cox. So, like, I don't, I don't understand that. I'm about to go live my own life. We don't know who Matthew Cox is. Don't ever say his name on this podcast. We don't want to promote Matt Cox.

Except do go check out the Murder Men, a podcast I do with Matt Cox. Well, I'm going to check out Murder Man because, yeah, you need to. It's good for you. All right, you guys. We'll see you next time. Thanks, buddy.