The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Inside America's BLOODIEST Mafia War: A Mob Soldier Exposes Rise & Fall Of The Genovese Crime Family

Episode Date: September 22, 2024

Dive into the gripping life of former mafia boss Anthony Arillotta from Springfield, Massachusetts. In this raw and unfiltered interview, Anthony opens up about his early days growing up in a mob-entrenched culture, the brutal initiation process, and his rise within the notorious Genovese crime family. From hijacking trucks to striking million-dollar deals, Arillotta recounts the violent, high-stakes world of organized crime. He also reflects on the decisions that led to his eventual downfall and the turbulent path he took toward survival. Witness firsthand stories of mob hits, truck hijackings, gambling empires, and the dangerous game of power and loyalty that defined the Mafia in the '80s and '90s. This eye-opening interview offers an inside look at the ruthless mentality required to survive in the Mafia and the human cost of living that life. Go Support Anthony! Book: https://www.amazon.com/South-End-Syndicate-Genovese-Springfield/dp/1949590755 IG: https://www.instagram.com/anthony_bingy_arillotta/ This Episode Is #Sponsored By PRIZEPICKS Download the PrizePicks app today and use code CONNECT for a first deposit match up to $100! Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you were going to become a mafia guy, you had to kill somebody. You might have to kill your best friend and who you love. The way I got made is I had to go on a hit in New York City. We were all vicious and violent and, you know, dangerous. When a guy asks us to go down and kill a guy in New York, we just would do it. Anthony Arolada is a former mafia boss from Springfield, Massachusetts. He grew up entrenched in mob culture. From a young age, he learned about gambling and loan sharking from his uncles and cousins

who were all involved in the life. After finding early success in the pot trade, Anthony formed his own crew and opened up a string of illegal sports betting and shi-locking operations throughout Springfield and the rest of New England, and later transitioned much of his wealth into legitimate real estate ventures. He eventually became a made man with the Genevieve's Crime Family, who of course are based in New York City, but at that time firmly ran and controlled Springfield.

Anthony gives us rare insight into the inner workings of the Italian mafia and how they really function in the modern age. and reveals the dirty secrets of what he believes is the last mafia war that will ever take place amongst Italian Cozonostra in the United States. Anthony and his crew were eventually taken down by a federal RICO indictment. And, facing a life sentence, he decided to cooperate. Today, he is a fully legit real estate investor and entrepreneur, and he's got a brand new book out that just hit the shelves called The South End Syndicate,

available right now anywhere you get books. Also, this week on Patreon, we have a very strong, special follow-up episode with our good friend, Cavario Hodges. Go check that out on Patreon. Patreon.com slash The Connect Show. Without further ado, one of the most fascinating and authentic mob stories I've had the pleasure of listening to Anthony Arellata right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. I went to prison at 20 years old. That was the best thing that happened to me, because when I went to prison, I was around seasoned gangsters. So that's how I started getting involved. I was making $100,000 a month while I was in prison.

That's when I see lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on. Then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shang. It's like six inches. And he passes it to me.

And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I made it out of that place alive. So you're not a Boston cat? I'm not. Okay. Got it. Is there any connection between...

I'm a Boston guy. You know, it's just that I was... up in Springfield. Okay. So did you make your bones in Springfield or in Boston? I made my bones. Well, you could, when you say make my bones, are we doing this now? Are we started? Yeah, yeah, we're live, baby. We're just, you know, we start informally. When I stay, uh, make my bones, are you saying like, uh, put in work to, you know, that's, I can't really say hustling, you know, where'd you first get down? I just, so I put in work, uh, that's, you know, I, I call putting in work doing a killing someone. Right. You know, so, uh, you know, putting my bones in, um, um,

all over Western Mass, Eastern Mass, Connecticut, New York, all the way into Albany, I was hustling and just, I interacted with everyone who was anyone that was involved with some sort of like organized criminal activity. Do you have that in your family? I did. On my mother's side, my mother's sister, my uncle used to be the driver for the local mafia boss in Springfield, legendary. boss. I wanted to shine light on, you know, Western Mass, Connecticut, because nobody talks about those areas. They talk about, you know, Boston, New York, Chicago, Philadelphia. And if you do some research on Connecticut, all of Connecticut, Western Mass, Central Mass, there's legends that came out of there as gangsters, notorious. So Big No Sam was the boss of Springfield Mafia from 1930 to 1983. He was at the Appalachian Meet in the 1950s.

The guy is a legend. He was a real boss. Murders all over the place. Same thing in Connecticut. You had Whitey Troppiano in Murder, Inc. He was involved with Murder Inc. So my family was, my uncle was the driver for the mob boss in For Springfield. And my grandmother's brother was with the patriarch family.

he was with the Whitey Tropiano. Whitey Tropiano was a notorious gangster out of Connecticut. They say he's got like over 50 murders. You know, he was with that murdering, you know. Yeah. They wanted my uncle to kill him. All right. This is back in like, you know, the 70s.

And my uncle didn't do it. And back then, you know, you couldn't refuse an order. They wanted him to set him up. And my uncle ended up taking his own life, killing himself. Wow. Because he wouldn't kill his friend. He was close with Whitey. Whitey Troppiano.

So, yeah, so I do have family that is involved. And I, you know, I do have family that was... But this is kind of lineage stuff. Did you have anybody that directly kind of reared you? Kind of like those old school guys, like Sammy, somebody from the neighborhood saw him and kind of plucked him and groomed him into becoming a man. So we had the mafia guys in Springfield.

That's where I'm raised in Springfield. The South End of Springfield is all Italians. It's heavily populated Italian immigrant city. Yeah. We were known for that. New York guys used to come up and just couldn't believe how many, you know, we call them grease balls,

but there were immigrants, like, just flooded Springfield. Right. And so the south end was Springfield, and that's where the mob headquarters was. Big No, Sam had his office down there. I went to school down there at a young age, so at a school, I get out, I would be hanging around.

You know, the cafes, my uncle, give me $20. We'd go here. And so I grew up around that presence. And my father had a fruit store fruit, vegetables, big wine grape distributor, and they all used to frequent his store. And if you're Italian growing up,

you all, you know, everyone knows what the mafia is. You know, your family's like, mafia's bad. Why they bad, every time they come in the store, you guys are nice to them. You respect them. You know, my father, you know, my father wasn't a wise guy.

He had nothing to do with the mafia, but they all came to a store and they had a lot of respect for him. He was a hard working man. Right. So how did he feel about wise guys? He didn't like the fact that, he had to work so hard and uh you know they were like getting that easy money and you know

he didn't but they all loved them and you know he wasn't they liked him more than he liked them but it's not like he didn't not like him he treated them with respect right and he always told me you know there's no such thing as kings on earth these guys are going to end up getting killed or going to prison and um you know if you're in part of that life you're going to have to take orders and things like that. So, um, sound like a good man, a reasonable man. Yeah, trying to keep you on straight narrow. Wanted me to follow him and be a hard worker.

Is this, that's hard work, you know, that fruit and vegetable business, back break and work. Yeah. It's horror. You know, it just wasn't for me. Yeah. Um, you know, as I was getting into my later teens, I was just making money on the streets and it was that work wasn't for me. Nothing.

You know, I wish, you know, it was a great business. My father had like, it was a Costco before Costco. Yeah. You know, he had the biggest small business in Western Mass. You know, he was the biggest wine grape distributor in all of Mass. 35, 40 trailer loads of wine grapes a year. And he had a great, you know, successful business doing like 70,000 in cash. Because back then in the 70s, you know, there was no credit card.

Right. You know, that's not with Italians. Yeah. And even like, that's a lot of money in the 70s and 80s. He's doing that every day? No, a week, you know. Which is, I mean, look. He's making a great living.

Yeah. I mean, great living back then. And that was when the food stamps were used to be money. You know, like instead of cards, it used to be actual money food stamps. They had the dollar bills by those and tens. And I think it was a 22. So I just couldn't do that work. It was hard work.

And so the local guys I looked up to, you know, they used to come into a store. They used to have meetings at a store. I used to see New York plates come in, old guys getting out, having meetings at my father's store. Because it was a legitimate place. That's what wise guys do. They want a place where there's going to be no law enforcement scrutiny. It could be no wires. It's going to the same thing to people that were legitimate people.

Let me come in. I use their phones. I'll meet people there and discuss business. That's what we do. And when we talk about New York, was the Springfield family like a wing of one of the five families in New York? Yes. Yeah. They were the five families in New York, Genevise, Bonano, Gambino, Lubeo, Lubez, Colombo.

So Genevice had a factions in Florida, New Jersey, Connecticut and Mass. Got it. And Connecticut and Mass fell under Springfield. So when I say Big No Sam was the boss of the Genevice family's Springfield, Connecticut faction. Yeah. Now, did he have to answer to New York? In a way, yes.

When it came to if there was going to be a murderer, if there was going to be a dispute between another family, you know, New York would come in and mediate it. Right. You know, they were the, but no money, we were our own entity. No money, it wasn't like you hear the stories, like you had to kick up. None of that happened. Yeah. He would just go to the commission in New York when there was a big decision to be made.

No, no, no, no commission. He would go to our bosses in the Genoese family. Of course, right, just the Genevice. Just the Genevice. That's where we were. We were the Genevice family, notorious family. The biggest, they call it the Ivy League of all the families. And we, you know, we were Genevese family.

And the Genevese family, as you see, say the Ivy League, they're known for being the sharpest, the shrewdest, the best earners, and the most subtle under the radar too. Yeah. You know, they were, the bosses for that family always were under the radar, low-key, very shrewd, multi-millionaires, didn't squeeze their captains, which meant didn't squeeze their soldiers, which meant didn't squeeze their associates. Right.

And that's why they flourish. And that's why no money came from. our area to New York because they were all millioners. And our area, they were all millionaires, multi-millioners. So you could be a millionaire even if you were just a captain. I was a millionaire. And that was before I wasn't even made. So these guys that were made guys were all multimillionaires.

And their families that were involved with them were all multimillionaires. And the bosses in New York, you know, you're talking like Fat Tony Salerno and Maddie the horse and all these guys are, you know, names that are there. I only want to say that are involved in construction and concrete that are worth millions and millions. You know, Danny Leo was a boss of the family.

He was bail was $25 million. He was out the same day. Do you think that not squeezing so much from the bottom, not demanding, the boss is not demanding a big kickup from the hierarchy from the captains and soldiers? Do you think that keeps a family together better?

It makes people less bitter and there's less a chance that they would like cooperate. No, I don't think it's got to do with the cooperation part, but I just think that if you're the mafia, you know, like up until with our family, even until today, you know, it runs like a smooth, you know, fine, oiled machine when the top is making money intelligent. And so, and then they pass down that networking to their captain. and they pass that down to, so everyone gets, that's the made people, get part of that networking. Right.

And in our family, I think that's what happened. It's, yeah, when everyone's thriving, they're going to do better. The machine is going to do better. And not only that, it's hard to get, like today, I'll give you, we'll jump fast forward today. There's nothing to offer a young kid today to say, oh, you're going to work with me and you're going to have to go kill that guy for me. Why would somebody risk going to kill somebody when there's nothing that you can offer that kid today for, money purposes there's another the rackets doesn't exist like that no more today now back then they did you know so um you but but here's another thing you wouldn't want to

starve that your young the young guys the associates because you know you would go partners with them in deals right you know and so you know you want to you know they're earning you're earning you know i think it's like um it ain't like uh you would just say to them you got to kick up and you got to give me this and you know i don't You know, I know that does happen, and I know there's a lot of broke guys that were bosses that would want their captains to kick up. But, you know, these guys were all multimillionaires. Right. Today's episode is sponsored by PrizePix.

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prize picks. Let's get back into the episode. So it was more like networking. Let's, if you want to make money with your captain, let's go do some business together. Sure. There might be like a lot of legitimate businesses, you know, and in multifamily deals like with different families getting involved. And they, you know, they were so powerful that they had big, big deals. They weren't worried about like, you know, the bosses and the top cap, you know, the underbosses and top captains. they're not even worried about the numbers business or the loan sharking or, you know, they leave that to all the soldiers and everything. They're into like the big concrete and construction and legitimate businesses and unions.

And, you know, and that's where they're focused on. So it's like they leave that all to the younger guys. Yeah, they don't need an envelope with $1,000 in cash. It's like, what is that? Yeah. And, you know, I don't know if people realize how much money the mafia made. You know, I know what we made in Connecticut at Mass. So let's talk about that.

Let's talk about your story. Yeah. So you're about 17 when you start hustling? Well, I was always betting sports at a young age since I've been eight years. I've been betting since five years old, kindergarten. First grade, I used to have like my mother, father was like funny. I had a little sheet with like 25 cents with people's names. You know, and I was like in a first second grade.

Wow. You know, betting. So I was just in a gambler. So with that being a gambler, it's like gives you that hustler mentality mindset. And so growing up, I was. I was betting games throughout up until I remember being in the eighth grade. I was betting, you know, and this is back when maybe 1979, 1980. I was betting like $100 a game.

And my eighth grade teacher probably was only making at the time $200 a week, whatever, they were making back then, you know. And I used to give her the picks. And she couldn't believe it. She goes, I can't believe you bet $100 a game and $50 a game. And so the hustling part led into, and then I was all, started, always getting in trouble fighting. You know, I was always, we are always having fights growing up in school, and I got arrested

at 15 years old, a saw him battery, I was a juvenile, juvenile, juvenile. And then it transferred into, I would say, a little bit of taking bets, you know, betting, taking bets up until I was around 18. I started dabbling into a little, selling a little cocaine, small, you know, ounces, you know, small level ounces types. and we were just dabbling into a little sports and a little thing like, you know, nothing major, though, you know, just small level shit up until about, I would say I went to prison at 20 years old, state prison. When I got out of prison, I got a shooting case. I had to do five years. Okay. I had a year mandatory for the gun. Right.

I had to do a year. That was the best thing that happened to me, because when I got out of prison, I got a shooting. went to prison, I was around seasoned gangsters, old-time gangsters. Massachusetts, it's not like where you hear in other states. It's a, you know, it's a heavily populated Irish and Italian prison system with organized crime criminals, not just, you know. Crips and bloods and yeah, well, not even that. You know, it was like not white guys that were coming in for domestic battery or drunks or alcoholics, drug addicts. These guys were dangerous killers. Right. In-state prison, which is rare. And there was none of that racial division

in our state. Like there wasn't like the blacks had a state, you know, you still stuck to your own, like the Italians and Irish stuck with them, but there was, we were friends with blacks and the Spanish, the Latinos and there wasn't that, you know, where you can't talk to that

part group because, you know, no interaction. It wasn't like that in mass. And the dangerous, the most dangerous, this is back in 1990, was like, The white guys were the murderers. Like they were dropping bodies left and right. One guy was like five foot five, 120, 130 pounds soaking wet.

And he had six, seven bodies inside the prison alone. Wow. And I met all kinds of guys like that. So when I got out of prison and I'm meeting all these guys, one guy in particular, he was a big time L.A. guy now, Brian Goodman, he was a vicious Irish thug back then. And he got me into, he was like seven years older than me. and we discussed the marijuana business.

And Massachusetts, I say that all the time. Mass. Mass. The laws were 50 pounds and under. It's a misdemeanor. What? So, yeah, it's like, you know, not in a school zone, 50 pounds or under. Fucking that.

And back then, everyone was going after the crack guys, the heroin, the cocaine. I come out of prison and I hit the streets hard. You know, so I just, my first deal was going to Boston buying marijuana from his guys in Boston. I remember, I think the first five pounds I bought, I paid like 3,000, 3,200 a pound, right? So they were probably, you know, robbing the shit out of me. They probably were giving, I was probably paying. They were making 1,500 a pound off me, maybe.

That's a lot of money, though, for a pound of weed in 1990. Yeah. And, you know, well, it's not depending on what grade it is. And this was probably low to mid grade. And it was probably I could have, you know, not knowing nothing, just getting started. Or I still sold it and made a profit. Right. So that's how I started getting.

getting involved in the weed business. And I, and so that and everything went. Like we were, that's when I, when I got out in 91, I started, we were hijacking trucks. Like, hijacking them, like, just taking the whole truck. Not, you know, robbing the guy taking them out of the car. Like, there would be a truck. We'd back in with a truck, take the whole thing. Or just go and get the truck and take all the stuff in it and load it into another truck.

Your jacking trucks coming out of Springfield? Or did you have a turf out of town? Connecticut and Mass. And then I had, we used to offload them in Boston. Boston. The guys would take the whole loads. Like, you know, we'd grab like, you know, a load that was worth 300,000 worth of stuff. And I'd go to Boston and get like 70,000, 80,000 cash for the load. Who was your fence there? Who was buying it? Organized crime criminals. Whitey Bulger and that crew. Right. You know, I was dealing with a lot with the Irish. Right. So the Winter Hill gang. I was going to say. Winter Hill gang. What, how strong were they in mass at that time compared to the Genovese at Springfield? So they were based more out of Eastern Mass, Boston area. And they were. very powerful but they still were the italian and different families so the italians were the patriarchal family so the italians were still more powerful they had more numbers they had like a bigger army with them all killers yeah whereas the winter hill gang was a vicious vicious irish mostly they did have

italians that were involved with them major league italians i'm talking like johnny monterano he had he was like sammy the bull with 19 murders he he copped out too right but um but um but But unlike, you know, with Sammy, this guy was actually, he killed all 19. Right. I mean, he was a legitimate guy going to Florida, whacking people, going to Oklahoma, killing people, going all over the country, killing people. And so they had Italians in Stephen Flemmy, another one, notorious murderer and this and that. So you still think the wise guys, the patriarcha was still stronger than the Irish guys in Boston? Oh, yeah, everyone would tell you that.

But it was just, you know, they had, yeah, they were just. The Winter Hill Gang has all the press because they... No, no, the Patriarchas in Boston were known. And Jullos back in when they got arrested in the mid-80s, that was a powerful, they had, that was a notorious family. Raymond Patriarchistina was on the commission. He was like a boss that was on, you know, that was a legendary boss. That family was legendary. Those guys, J.R. Russo, Vinnie Ferrar, Bobby Caroso, that whole Zanino.

You know, there was a list of them, notorious gangsters. Winter Hill, the only guys that you would get out of them were Whitey, Bulger. Well, Howie Winter, you know, but you would get Whitey Bulger, Stevie Flemmy, Johnny Matarano. And then you start tapering off to like the guys who were around them, you know. Well, I meant in popular culture, we associate Boston with Irish people. So that gets all the, that gets all the lore. But, you know, there's tons of Italians. And I'm sure they did better than the Irish.

Because they're just, without a doubt. They had money-making guys. It's heavily populated with Italians, too. They had Medford and north-down of Boston, east Boston. Just like, you know, I know you get that with, it's got that Irish reputation. Yeah, that's what I mean. You know, the Celtics got the shamrock on the thing. So they get that.

But no, it was heavily populated Italians when I went to prison, but it was equal, Irish and Italians. And we all got along. We had the Irish club, the Italian club. We could have parties once a month. They'd invite us. We'd invite them. And it was really great. So when you're hijacking these trucks, you're selling these goods to these families in Boston.

Yeah, most of them to the Irish Whitey Bulger's crew right there. And the reason for that, it was because when I got locked up, I was around a lot of those crazy Irishmen. Right. You know, that were associated with, you know, the Charlestown guys. They were notorious bank robbers and armored car guys. And these guys were ballsy kids, ballsy dudes. And they were good with nice. they were good with guns and you ain't disrespect in them.

They'll blow your head off. For sure. Just like we would, you know, but it's not like you go to other cities and you'll be like mostly the Irish in other cities are more legitimate. They're not as crazy. You know, they're not organized crime, criminal. It's almost like, remember the Westies in New York? Sure.

Yeah, it's like that. So, you know, something similar to that. But I think it was bigger in Boston with the Irish. What kind of stuff were you jacking from these trucks? Anything that was on them. I'll tell you a funny one, but like TVs, food products. Anything that were VCRs back then. And like I said, a lot of times it was foods.

And my father had a food store, fruit and vegetable. And one of the loads, it was all foods. You know, like candies and, you know, box. Oh, cigarettes was a big, you know. You know, big thing back then. So I go to my father. That load, particular load, we unloaded it into a rider truck. And me and one of my guys, Freddie, we, it was of all of us, me, Freddie Louie, we load

up the rider truck and we end up going to my father's store. Now, at this time, we had the rider truck too long as a rental agreement. Yeah. And so we go to my father's store and my father's like, you know, what do you guy? I go, dad, I got a load stuff. I got a good deal on. I go, you want it? I can give you a good price.

You don't have to pay me nothing up front. And it was probably retail. He could have probably got like $350,000. I think he was going to give us $70,000. And we were just going to leave it with him. And he was going to pay us as we went because that's my father. And he didn't think they were stolen because my father was a legitimate guy. He wanted to do that.

So we get to the place. Now the writer company, trot place is like around the corner like less than a mile away. Now that they're looking for the truck as a stolen truck because we didn't pay the fee to go to that next week, you know, whatever. Now they think the truck is stolen. And we got a gun in the truck. And so we start unloading the, there was Italian immigrant that was working for my father, Guido.

And he was so happy. He goes, Anthony, what are you doing now? Because I used to work in my father's store. And, you know, I wasn't working now. This was, you know, for a couple years. And I go, I'm in, I'm selling these goods now. And he goes, he was so happy. He gives me a hug.

He goes, I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. So we get the two wheelers and we go to the truck and we go to start unloading the truck. So he says, I'll help you. So the three of us, me, Freddie and Guido, start going out. When I open the door, I see the two guys with a car here and a car here. They look like feds with suits on. And there was one at the front of the truck, one at the back.

And I know right away, I thought there were cops. So I just, right away, I don't even make eye contact and I just go around the corner. I thought, I think Freddie caught on, but he isn't, he wasn't as sharp as me, I don't think. And so he kind of follows me, but poor Guido, he starts unloading the truck. So we go into my father's store right away. I go in the back, me and Freddie, I put on an apron. I pretend I'm sweeping the floor and shopping and everything like that. I mean, throwing the stuff in the dumpster.

And poor Guido, the cops come in, boom, boom, boom. And they grab Guido and they, now he doesn't know anything about anything. They go, what are you doing? It goes, I'm helping unload a truck. rock and what do you know he goes and the guy was like I don't know nothing they got them up against the wall they uh and it was the fun it was kind of so it was so hilarious because this poor guy is getting harassed by the cops he's at Italian immigrant he's working hard and he's like who what are you doing who is this stuff and he goes I don't know who stuff it is I was just helping unload the truck

they asked my father he goes yeah a couple guys came here they wanted me to buy some stuff they took off I'm outside throwing the stuff in a dumpster I see the truck the door open and I see cops and the guys with the guys with the suits were the writer company people. So I see the cops right there and I'm pretending under the corner of my eye, I don't see him and finally I turn and look and it goes, is that one of them?

And they go, no, that's not him. And Freddie's hiding in the doghouse in the backyard. We had a dog house and he was inside the doghouse. I don't know how we even got in there, right? And so they end up leaving, we end up getting away. So like the loads all mostly went down

to Boston. That particular load I tried to sell to my father. So you're doing these hijackings. You're moving pot. How does that grow the pop. So I became the biggest marijuana distributor in all of Connecticut and Mass. I mean, that's how big I got. But it started slowly and it just grew. You know, I got out of, you know, I went back to prison a couple of times. So I would grow the, I had partners in I, so I had a partner in the

marijuana business. And I had a partner in our, and I had a big loan shark business going on. So we had like 400,000 on the streets back then. And you're loaned into businesses? No, street guys mostly. You know, you know, there's one guy owed us 30,000. We gave money to everybody. And that's a bad thing to do. You know, we just buried people, you know, and like, you know, we would just stuff them. Irresponsible. Yeah, 20,000, 30,000, 10, you know, because we're young.

We didn't, you know, we're asking for trouble. But if they didn't pay, they knew they had to pay, but you're asking for trouble. So if a guy, like you say street guy, so say a guy wants to go get a dope package, like go, get a kilo. No, we don't deal with loan for that. No, no, no. No, a drug dealer, though. Like, oh, yeah, anybody that's right. When I say we don't deal with drug addicts, no.

Anybody that needs a thousand, it starts off with a thousand. And then they need, they're paying some 30 a week, 40 a week, 50. I didn't do knock downloads. I just did. You pay me every week until you pay it back. Right. So, you know, we had some guys at five points, you know, so say you got 100,000 and you're averaging three points, all right?

You're making 3,000. We're making 12,000 a week because we're average, we got 400,000 out there. Now, not everybody pays on time. and so forth and so, you know, whatever. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local Total Wine and More to grab a great bottle to share. With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy. If you're not sure what to pick, their friendly guides can help.

Find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine. and more. Shop total wine and more in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21. And are you with the Genovese now? Like, do you have the backing of the family? So when I came home from prison in 1991, I got formally put on record with the Genevice family, without Bruno. He came to my house after I got out in 91 that year. He just happened to get out of prison doing a little bit for something. And he says, you want to be with me. And he's kind of like my cousin on my mother's side. I was very close with him. He's very close with our family. He used to always come into my father's store. He was a gangster. He was a legitimate, like where he was a

killer, but he was also a flashy, smoked a cigars and a moneymaker. Another guy liked me, but he was a mad hat or Anthony DeLavo. He didn't have finesse. He was just fly off the handle nut job. You know, I want to smash you, kill you, all that shit. So I, I, I, I, formerly go on record without Bruno to be with him in the Genevievee. He goes to his boss, says, I'm going to put Anthony on record with me. That means I'm formerly, you know, with the Genevice family. They go okay, so I start with him. But when we had the 400,000 on the streets, I wasn't giving Bruno a penny of that.

Right. Which is a bad thing. You know, the things I was doing with Bruno was, I was doing sports gambling, longchark, and with him, some of it. We had dice games. I used to have a bar in Westfield. It was a college town, and me and Freddie had a bar called Gabby. back then, college kids and everything.

That was a funny story because that was one of our guys that owed us money, loan shark. That was like part of that $400,000. So he couldn't pay. So we went in and took half the joint. And then from half the joint, we ended up, he was partners in the biggest restaurant down at the Cape Cod.

It was doing like $5.5 million a dollar a year. We ended up getting involved with that. There was like Dallas Cowboys that weren't partners with it. They didn't know that they had too notorious gangster there's going to be in their silent partners. So it led to that. And so,

but so Bruno didn't have anything, the mob didn't have anything to do with our 400,000. Now I go to prison again for a violation, salt and battery case back in, I get out in 91. I go back to prison for assault and battery. And we had a lot of, when I say corruption,

but we had a lot of influence with law enforcement. So when I went there, I had four judges at my wedding when I got married. That's who I went in front of, the guy never struck, showed up at my arraignment. I was on parole, so they threw me in prison, parole violation. At my arraignment, I got let out, I mean, it got dismissed because the guy didn't press

charges on me, you know, but at my arraignment, the guy said, I'm dismissing the case. That's unheard of. But the, but, and I'm not saying the judge was corrupt. He didn't do anything like that. He just liked my mother and father. He didn't think that I was, I was on a mobster like that yet, you know, known. He was, and he didn't do anything wrong. He just did it because that was the right thing to do.

Instead of delaying it, he did it as, uh, um, you know, as a, like, because of my, who my family was, as nice, hard working people, you know? Right. It was a black judge on top of it, you know, so nice, nice guy. Yeah. I go get out of prison. I go in front of the parole board, a good friend of my father. He ended up being becoming mayor of our city, but he was on the parole board. He lets me out. That was the second time he let me out too, because he let me out the first time after the first year I got out. So I get out. And, uh, My guys fucked up the bankroll.

I built up like $100,000 bankroll. And these guys that were my partner weren't capable of in the marijuana business. He wasn't capable. He liked to do drugs. He wasn't a hustler. I did all the work. He fucked up the bankroll. And the loan shark, and they weren't on top of it.

So a lot of money went missing there. So I come out, I get back on top of it, put things back together. I go back to prison on another violation. This time it's a home invasion case. where I'm facing 25 years. But I got to charges Nal Pras because I had a strong alibi from a restaurant guy

that owned a big Chinese restaurant in Chickabee Mass, Hukilau. It's called Hukilau. I said, Johnny, you remember the other night? I was here. I wasn't there, but I said, I was here. He said, yeah. He goes, yeah, you were here, you ate.

And then me and you, you had Konex with me till like two in the morning. I said, thank you, my friend. So I got an affidavit. We brought that to my lawyer. And I ended up. And then they wanted, it was a fight over with a friend, fighting with his girlfriend.

And we went in the house and beat up the whole family, ball batted them, you know, beat them all up, you know. So they dropped, he pled guilty. That's all they wanted was him. And he ended up getting a little, like a year in prison for that. And they dropped my charges. It was like six or seven of us involved. Right.

And no, everyone got probation. And I got mine now prost. And so I get out of prison. But I had to stay in prison for eight months on that one. Right. This time I get out and I cut ties with all my, they fucked up the money again with the marijuana. So I get out of prison in 93 and June.

I borrow $100,000 from my father cash because I want to get away from these guys that were my partners. So we owed, like I said, we had 400. No, when we had 400,000 on the streets back then, we were borrowing it off this loan shark, who they called today, they give them the nickname the animal. said he's the boss of the current mafia today, which he isn't, but, you know, his name's Albert. But he's still on the street today. Yeah, he's on the streets today. Oh, wow. So, you know,

he's my friend. I talk with him and this and that. And so we were borrowing the money off of him at two points. Right. And then we were putting it out at three, four, five, six points, whatever. And that's your profit. And then that's our profit. But we owed him the money. And if you don't pay him, he's going to kill you. I mean, he had a guy shot five times in his face. You know, he was like, he was like older than us. So a lot of guys looked up to him. Right. That's with young kids. Right.

So you're not going to fuck you. I mean, he was, he's known, he beat up another guy that owed him money. And it was the guy was wired. And he got five years sentence for it. Right. So he's not going to let you get away with not paying it. Right. So let me ask you this. What did you do differently knowing, seeing the mistakes of your early loan shark in days where you're loaning it out kind of recklessly.

Yeah. You got to be careful now who you loan it to because if you can't collect from them, you got to deal with Albert. So what did you do different? So then we were reckless. Right. We were giving anybody money. You could have been anything, anybody, you know, fuck, if you don't pay us, we're going to fucking hurt you bad.

That was our, we are a violent, vicious crew. And that's the wrong way to handle the loan chart in business. You don't want that. Like you just said, I'll tell you what I learned differently, but I borrowed $100,000 from my father to pay off Alberts, my end of it. I owed him like a little bit around $100,000, $120,000. So I get out of prison in 93. I borrow $100,000 from my father, $110, whatever.

I pay Albert off, and I say, listen. I'm out of that business. I got nothing to do with these other guys that owe you the money. Because he's still owed like another $250 from those guys, $300. Yeah. I said, I don't give a fuck. You know, what happens? I go, but if I was you, I'd watch it because there's a lot of shaky shit going on.

He goes, I don't give a fuck. I already got a hold dog. He goes, right? So, but I said, I don't care. Don't come to me. I go, here's the money. Boom. And he respects me for that to this day, you know?

Yeah. So now I don't have no partners no more. I get out of prison, 93. I, oh, my father 100,000, and I'm living at my family's house. By 97, I'm a multimillioner. Okay. All from the, so that's how quickly I just paid my father back and just made, I just hit the streets hard and I grind in and I got rid of the partners.

And what I did instead of partners, I just networked with everybody. It didn't matter who you are. Irish, Italian, black, Jamaican, Spanish, Colombian, because in Ameri-Wanahuan business, It's all walks of life. I was buying from the Jamaicans. I was selling to Jamaicans. I was buying from Italians. I was selling to Italians.

I was buying from New York, selling to Boston, buying from Springfield, selling to New York. It was just I controlled the whole area, major, major. We were going, and eventually we started going to Mexico, going inside Mexico. I didn't it. I'm not crazy, but I'm not that crazy.

But my guy is, great guy, this guy, Dickie. He used to go back with $200,000, go right into $1,000. the warres Mexico. At that time, Warres was the capital of murder of the world. Going there with 200,000,

dealing with the cartel. He was an ex-Navy guy, you know, like military guy. Yeah. So he was nuts, you know, and he was a French guy

on top of it. He was an Italian, but he was just, I love him. He was crazy. So he would go in there, deal with them, 200,000.

He told me when he went into Mexico, there was, there was like, like cartel guys with machine guns and warehouses. I was actually talking to a guy last night from L.A., and he goes, I know exactly where you were. I was telling him this story. Yeah.

And he was a big time. Like the fucking movies. Yeah, so he tells me, goes in, there's all kinds of guys with machine guns, and there's a warehouse with thousands of pounds in there. And he goes in and he picks his weed that he wants. And then he would market. Then he would go back over the border.

He'd leave a couple hundred thousand there. And then they would come over with SUVs and bring it over and he would be at the house on the other side of the border. And then he would, he had a package it up and then we'd put someone on the road to bring it back 500 pounds at a time, 400 pounds at a time. We'd have a couple people driving it back. So I eventually got to that. Wow. So what is 200,000? How many pounds does that get you? So like at that level. So that's Mexico. So there's different types of marijuana. What he was getting and there's different. When we come back, there's different. I sold anything from 150 a pound garbage dirt.

I mean garbage. I would go to New York and pay 150. One time I went to New York, I don't even think it was weed. It looked like weed. It was green like weed. But people said when they smoked it, it didn't get them high. But I still sold it and made money on it. I think I paid $100 for a pound, and I was selling it for $500 a pound.

Wow. It was like 250 pounds of it. So you got that level of 150. And guys want it, believe it. Don't forget I wasn't that old and I was selling teenagers, young guys. And I flooded them. The way I got big was if a guy wanted, If I had a guy that wanted a pound and he was doing a pound a week, I would just say,

here, take three pounds. A guy was doing five pounds a week, I'd say, here, take 20 pounds. Eventually, as I got bigger, a guy was doing 20 pounds a week, I'd say, or take 50. And I would just front them all. They'd give me a little chunk down, and I would front them all. And I had hundreds of thousands on, you know, I'm going, you know, but slowly I built this. But they would owe me, I would get affronted too. I was getting infronted.

You know, whoever I dealt with, you know, you build up that reputation. And like Anthony, I got like I'm sitting on 300 pounds. I yeah, bring it to me. I give them 50,000 cash. I owe him the rest and just chunk piece them off like that. So then it went as high as $8,000 a pound, you know. And what I did was. And that's for Kush.

That's like back then we had hydro. Yeah. And like they called it the G13, whatever. That was like the names, purple hay, shit like that. And I'm not a pot smoker. So I don't know. Like I don't care about what the brands are, what the names are. I just care.

What does it cost me? Do you like it? And what am I making? I was the same way. Yeah, I don't give a fuck about, you know, your, you know, this is, I don't smoke it, you know. I tried it one time and I was like fucking, it got me. Like when I was young, I tried it a couple times and it was like fun. You know, we used to laugh, couldn't stop laughing, you know, so, but I just didn't like it.

So my, what I eventually got into, the garbage weed and the mid grades and the little higher midgrades, I'd keep in Connecticut and mass. but New York gobbled up all the high end. Like I went to New York and would buy 300 pounds of, say, skunk weed, I would pay $1,000. But I would off it, I would wholesale in my area for $14, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, the whole $100. And that's not bad. You make $40,000, doing nothing real quick. Here, I got $100. Here's one deal.

You know, 100. What did it take? I didn't drive it. I had a driver to go to New York. I would do the business. He'd drive it back. So, but then New York, when I had guys with, the hydro, like that good, good hydro and grown, you know, organic, whatever they grow it.

Indoors and stuff. And they would charge me $3,000.35. I go to New York and get $5,000 because they used to sell it to those Wall Street guys and get the big money. So they said, Anthony, any type of weed that you get, you know, the high end, just bring it to us. We don't care. And they helped them get rid of, and I did a lot of business with New York. I did a lot of, you know, I started off in Boston, but then I started supplying Boston, you know, because I was just getting, You see, Boston is our way from us, but we're closer to New York. Yeah. So people are coming through us.

So I was kind of like getting the deals to sell to Boston. Sure. You know, it was like, that's what Springfield was good. And we are there, Connecticut too. So, you know, Connecticut goes to Springfield borders, Connecticut, which it goes to then Harford, then it goes up. You know, you got Bridgeport, New Haven, Stanford. And then you're into New York.

You know, so it comes down back into mass. So Boston, you've got to go the other way. so, you know, I was getting great deals. Right. So you're, and I was dealing with all those crazy Jamaicans that were chopping people up in the 90s. Right.

Like, they ever read about those guys? Yeah, the, like the shower posseys. They called them posseys. Oh my God, they were finding brutal. Yeah, like different DNA bones and, yeah, yeah.

Exactly. Yeah, I was dealing with. They love me. Right. Yeah. And I'm in my house. I had them in a house. They used to bring their kids over.

I couldn't ever understand. I'm really, too, they used to talk that heavy Jamaican. Yeah, yeah, that patois. Yeah. Oh, my God, but they fucking were vicious. with the family? Like,

like, what does the, do the Genevice now? Oh, do you have them? Are you still on record with them? Oh, yeah,

so I get on record in 91. Now I'm doing all this stuff on the side. Right. I'm hustling my balls off marijuana. Right. I'm doing, but I'm still doing the work with the Genevice family. You know,

with, like I said, I'm partners with Bruno with sports gambling. Sports gambling is like this. Me and Bruno were partners. We're the bookmakers. Yeah. Okay. if you bet with us and you win 10,000,

we got to pay you out of our own pockets. If you lose 10,000, we're going to put 10,000 in our pockets. And then what it comes down to is you have guys that, you know, we had workers that worked for us answering the phones, dozens and dozens of them. And so, you know,

because we had control of just in my office, we had three guys working the phones and I had to have guys paying and collecting. And so it was an operator because back then, up until 2001, it was phones. Right. After 2001, I implemented the Costa Rica where you do the 1-800 number. Right.

And so we started doing that. So we didn't need no more phone guys. And you would actually, but in the 90s, you would actually have like, correct me if I'm wrong, but a guy in a house, like could be a residential home. We needed three. Right. Yeah. Three different houses with workers in there.

But they weren't bookmakers. They were just guys doing the work, answering the phone. Yeah. Taking the bets from the people calling in. One guy could probably handle 30 guys. Right. And so if we had like 150 guys. So we needed like, we, we overstuffed them.

So, wow. You know, we used four phone guys and, you know, we needed a clean out guy. And then we needed guys to go pay and collect. And right. So me and Bruno were partners in that. We were partners in loan shark. Now, Bruno was partners with me and that, but then he also had other partners. Right.

Bruno was the boss. I mean, you know, he was a maid guy. I was just a young kid still. He had everything. He was just a savvy earner. Wow. So he had other book making operations. He had other.

He was partners with me in loan chark. But he had other. But he didn't know that I had other shit too. All this weed. You see what I'm saying? I have fucking moving. Oh, I was moving coke. I was moving kilos of coke.

Not big. I wasn't no kingpin, but I would buy a kilo. I'd cut it, make two kilos. And then I had two guys, main guys that I would just give them to. And I would sell like two kilos a month to them.

Yeah. You know, I was making, I was cutting it in half. I used to, my friend Freddie had a vice. So he used to know how to make it and put the wax paper in

and cut it all up and then make it a brick again. Yeah. And it works. So, you know, I was making big money with that. The story of any mob guy coming up is just money, any mafia guy, it's just money flying everywhere.

Yeah, but some guys aren't earners though. Right. You know, some guys aren't really money makers, you know, like, you know, like you hear the stories and everything, but and there's some guys that are super, you know, just really good at it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And the Genovese, for whatever reason, that's just in the culture is to just be earning.

Yeah, exactly. Wow. So, and the sports betting, the sports books, you guys are making the lines, right? When we don't make them, the line comes out, you adjust them. Where does the line come from? The line comes from, you know, just like, like say Vegas comes out with the line. You know, back in the 90s, we used to use a guy out of New York. New York was sharper.

They were more, they had more, I would say, tech savvy than us back then. Right. So we had, and, you know, we were affiliated with them. They were still Genevese. So we would get, New York guys would contact us with the beginning line. Right. That doesn't mean their line might change different. because now the line changes based on if New England we're from New England, right?

New England Patriots line is going to be different because everyone's going to come in betting New England. So New England might be a seven point favorite, but in our area, Massachusetts, it's going to be maybe eight, eight and a half. Whereas New York, it's going to be maybe six. You know? So you don't, you adjust it like, but you don't go too much because the sharp guys come in and they're and they'll murder you. Because that's the only guys that went at gambling is the guy. guys that are sharp that are robbing the lines. Yeah.

Anybody tells you that they're a handicapper. The only handicapper is like a guy bet in one game every two, three days. Right. He's control of his money. He's looking for spots, but he's looking for lines. He's looking to rob the line. So the guys running your adjusting your lines in your operations. And that's hard.

That's hard. Those got to be sharp guys. No. So usually what you do is you have somebody on it. It's not sharp because it's a cutoff. Like how much do you want to book on the game? What's your cutoff? So if we're booking and he sees like he's got 10,000 on Dallas,

he knows to raise the point of half a point of half a point. You never want to raise it more than a point or a point and a half because then you can get meddled. So, you know, you want to keep it. You know, you raise it at three points and now they come on the other side and the line ends up in the middle. You got to pay them and you got to pay them. So you never want to do that. And it was a lot of work to do because you had to be on top of everything. Like we had a sheet like this long.

You know what? We had 150 people. We used to do the work every week. And it was always these two Jewish guys. They owned Bob's furniture. You heard of that? Yeah. So they were the owners of the company, the actual owners.

They were betting with us. Those are good customers to have? They won every week. Oh, fuck, bad customers to have. Our sheet was like 90% losers because the public is always suckers. They always lose. And every week, we'd win like $140,000, $180,000, $120,000. We always had the winners here.

And then the losing side, the winning side was always a smaller list, you know, because there's not too many winners. It was always them, Gene and Paul, plus 8,000, plus 4,000. And you know how they were winning? I'm going to tell you exactly how. So back then, the line changes, right? New York would get, back then there was no computers. It was like the 90s and there was no computers and computers were just coming out. But New York had access to that better than we did.

They were getting, so when the line moved, you know, sometimes the line just adjust, it might be bad weather. It might be a person, an injury. You don't know that. Today, you know it instantly. It's on the phone. But back then, you didn't know that. If a star player is out, the line might move three points. If Tom Brady didn't play that game,

that line might move seven points. You follow me? So they were getting the knowledge, but we didn't get it in time. So, like, say the line goes from four to six. Everyone thinks, well, it's only two points. It doesn't matter. Two points, if you go to the casino

when you want to bet that game, now you've got to lay the odds on those two points. and so on 1,100 to 1,000. Instead, now you're laying, instead of laying 1,600 to 1,000, you're still laying 1,100 to 1,000. So now you're robbing them of 500. So now you're making the better, the bookmaker, and you're becoming the sucker better.

And you're the bookmaker. And that's what they were doing. They were robbing the lines every week. They weren't picking the games. And I won like that. I'll tell you what I did, but they ended up winning like that because they're not handicappers. They're like, okay, they're going down the sheet.

Okay, this line went from three to five. These guys still got it at three. That's going on lay to three. And they would pick maybe two or three games, and that's how you win. So if they kept winning, why did you take their action? So they kept winning, because we were still winning. It's just that these cocksuckers were still beating us, you know? Sure, sure.

You were trying to beat them. You were like, this week's or we're going to beat the Bob's for a future. We got on top of it more. Right. And, you know, we got sharper with the line movements. What was your favorite business at this time? Marijuana. Right.

Yeah. I mean, I grinded with all of them. Yeah. Robberies. We were robbing drug dealers, not like you think of, not going in houses and everything. You know, I was, we were robbing drug dealers like taking weed from them and not paying them. Like there was, you know, I could tell you dozens and dozens of scores. I made huge scores.

You know, guys are going in trying to rob banks. I made $470,000 in one day on a score of marijuana. Wow. And $400,000. The guy that set it up was my cousin, right? He comes to me. He was going to take a guy down in Boston first. 220 pounds of skunk wheat.

Like I opened up the bales that were like 30 pound bales. The buds were like this long. Wow. He says that he want it. He was going to charge me, I think, $2,200 a pound, $2,000 a pound, and you can sell it for $3,000. So I ended up getting it for zero a pound. Yeah.

I gave my cousin $70,000 because he don't know nothing about the marijuana business. Yeah. And I kept it all. And I didn't make the full $400,000 in one day, but it was a $400,000 score that is going to take me maybe, tomorrow I probably got rid of the whole 200 pounds easily right wow are you are you are you are you just robbing people's at gunpoint or are you no no no that's what I'm so well we did do that one time we hijacked a a truck and we had these guys we were selling it to them and

they were coming with the money to buy it uh they were coming with the money I forgot how really this went but we had the truck they were coming with like 60, 70,000 cash to buy it from us we pull up with like four or five of us we pull out the guns we grab them

we take the truck they had the truck we ended up taking the truck instead of paying them the money and then they we tell them running the woods and they take off in the woods and my crazy friend we start shooting at them I go what the fuck are you doing Like, you know what I mean?

There's no reason. He wasn't shooting at him, but he was like making him run, like shoot. So they would run. So you're just getting the drop on big shipments and then breaking in and taking all of it. You're talking like the, like the robbery. Yeah. So like that particular one, I just, the guy gave it to me. Yeah.

200 pounds and 220 pounds of, and I just took it. The next day there was, you know, he dropped it off. There was 130 pounds here or like 110 pounds there. I had to go pick it up from my friend's packet store. It was in his car. under and like 20 pounds of it. And he had an SUV. It was in the back.

And I never forget that I was driving to, I had a stash house. And as I'm going there, there was a traffic jam and there was a lane where you had to get over to the right. They made you to get lean over to the right. And it's a forensic state trooper, mass state trooper gets behind me. And it was like one of those forensic trucks where they were up high and you could see directly down. And it was, I had an SUV like a Jeep ring or whatever they were, Cherokee. and it was all bails like it wasn't hidden

they were like all stacked up in the back and I was like for half hours in this traffic with them behind me the whole time so like that particular one I got it I got rid of it the next day so one of my guys I tell you that went to Mexico

he ended up buying like 100 pounds quick I sold him like a quick so you're just ripping people off no no no no I'm just what is taking people's shit and not paying him yeah but when you say you're just ripping people off I did that like

I did that, but that's not where I made my money. Because I was a very stand-up guy in the weed business. So I'm just giving you a hard time. Yeah, well, no. So like with that one, it wasn't me. That was the, my cousin came up with that deal. And he said, I got a guy out of Boston. My cousin was a wise guy, you know, in that life.

And he comes to me with the deal. And he says, you know, I got a guy, this guy that is in a weed business, you don't got to pay him. So would you have, go on. Did you have ambitions to get made? If you're Italian and you're a criminal, that was always your goal to be a maid guy.

Yeah. You know, with me, when I was, I don't know if I really had ambitions, I just think that when it presented itself, I grabbed at it, you know, they presented it with me. Throughout the years, they always presented it with me. Really? Yeah, yeah, I was proposed in the, I think I got proposed. See, there's a difference now to be a made guy around 94,

95-ish, right around there. And then I got arrested for marijuana. Okay. In 96. They raided my house, caught me with like 40 pounds of marijuana. Right. I'm not in a school zone. I'm in district court, misdemeanor charge.

Right, right. You know, I end up beating the case and two years later because the informant that they sent in on me was a rogue informant. He was double dip and he got caught with, he was selling cocaine. Yeah. He had a gun. So they ended up arresting him for that. Then he got caught again for that. So their informant on me was facing like,

40 years in prison. So I got the case dropped 98. So, yeah. So what we were, I was asking you about like, you know, a lot of guys that are making a lot of money and they're just associates, right, of these different families. They're making tons of money and they're like, I don't really feel the need to become a part of the crew formally, you know. Those are smart guys. Yeah, yeah, I suppose so, right? Because, you know, I don't know what real benefit.

And that's the question I've been asking, wise guys that have sat in that chair since we started the show. It seems like more of just a prestige thing and a reputation thing than it does like a monetary benefit. But so what happens? Do you decide to, did you ever, did you end up getting made? I did. So like you said, if you were Italian criminal, that was the ultimate goal. Every Italian criminal wants to be a made guy. Right.

Even the wannabes that aren't, you know, like, that are, they ain't, and you got to kill somebody to be made. You know, back, you know, I know guys did get made without killing. Maybe they were big earners and they had some connections with the family. But, you know, up until our era 2000, the main thing was you had to, I knew as a kid, if you were going to become a mafia guy, you had to kill somebody. We just knew that going on. Yeah, it was known. Like, because they're all killers. Right.

You know, every guy in our area, we had bodies, two bodies, three bodies, you know, six bodies, ten bodies. Right. And New York, same way. More bodies because there's bigger cities and everything. So you know how to do it. And not everyone's capable of doing that. What did you think? Were you like, I could do that?

At a young age, I always said, like, could I be capable of doing that? And I always said I could do it to an evil guy, to a bad guy. But in that life, it doesn't work like that. You might have to kill your best friend and who you love. And if you're in that life. And I had to plead guilty to conspiracy to murder my best friends. Would they ask you to do that? Of course they do because the way to get at your, the guy that they want killed is they need somebody that the guy trust.

Right. You know, so it's like they might need me to say, hey, bring this kid, tell them you guys are going to a restaurant, tell them you're going here, stop by this house, tell them you got to run in here or you're going, you know, you got that guy. Yeah. You go to a house, you got somebody there or you do it. You know, you're going somewhere. Someone puts a bullet in a, but you're taking a ride in a car. Someone's in the back seat. Yeah.

blows the setup right and that's exactly what happens in that world the mafia if you were anybody like that um and you know i'm not saying all the time but they usually target your uh you're you're you're gonna target your closest people to you are going to be the ones that the ones that get you that's that's great that's that's right that's this thing as old as the mafia is the fact that like he's the guy that smiles at you yeah that pulls the trigger of course now what year did you get straightened out two 2003. Okay. So you now you're like 30? I'm 35. 35. Okay. You're aging well. Oh, thanks. Yeah. So you're 35. And did you have to kill somebody? Yeah. So the way I got made is I had to go on a hit in New York City. So the boss at this time was in New York, was the official boss of the family. He wanted me directly with him. His name was Artie Nygril.

During the hit? No. He wanted me to be official. You know how I said Bruno put me on record with him? Yeah. So Bruno became boss in 2001. Okay. So he's the boss now and he wants to make me with him and it's about six, seven other guys, Connecticut, Mass guys underneath him. Got him.

Filled up his crew. I'm one of them. And around, this is an 01, Bruno becomes official boss of Connecticut and Western Mass. So I'm back around Bruno now because we had a couple of beef journals two years and when I got caught with the weed. He was mad he wanted to kill me. Right. Because they don't want drug.

dealing in, you know, like that. Right. And he was worried that he was going to get killed because I was reporting, you know, he was responsible for me. Yeah. So 98 he gets out of prison. I get back around him. I start going to New York a lot more.

Meanwhile, those two years, I was dealing with every fucking walk of life there was. I made millions of dollars in those two years that I wasn't around Bruno and the mafia. Right. Right. So now I'm back. I'm going to New York a lot. I mean all kinds of captains and bosses with Bruno, the heads of the family, you know, all that.

So, uh, was that exciting for you? It wasn't exciting because I was doing it my whole life. Like I was meeting made guy was doing business with made guys in New York the The years that I wasn't supposed to be doing any business and in my whole life. I was doing business I was in prison with serious made guys. I was like around them my whole life and so meeting the guys like that was and that's why they took a liking to me because They could tell I was real like I wasn't I was genuine. I was you know I wasn't a fake and you know you knew you know how to kind of just act like you belonged yeah I mean it's just it's just certain way a guy at when you're a serious guy. I don't know how it's just in you.

It's just, there's no acting. It just is you. That's who you, it is. There's no faking, you know, and it comes out. If you're faking and you're not being your true self, eventually you're going to, you know, get called out for it. And Bruno got, became boss in 01. I started going down more now with him.

I was there when he got told he was the official boss. The New York bosses came to his restaurant in Springfield. Okay. And at that time, they were using three bosses to run the family in New York. So the captains, Pataluka and Ardi Niagara was a soldier, they come up to Springfield and they give word to Bruno that he is the official boss. Because the boss in Connecticut and Mass, they were under indictments. There was a racketeering case in 2000 that took to Springfield in Connecticut boss.

And the two of them, there was Albert Shebeli and Anthony DeLabel. They were under indictment now. Right. So they were going to go to, Anthony, got three years. This Babbat guy was going to get either prison time or whatever. So they needed someone else to, and plus they were on bail. So Bruno, they make Bruno the boss. Bruno stepped up, yeah.

Bruno's running the shit. I'm working with him. He wants to make me other guys. We're going back and forth to New York. Now, at this time, they put us with this guy, John Bolonia. He, he's the guy that's going to be the bad guy of this whole story. Okay. John, what's his? John Bologna. He destroyed, him and Arthur Nigo destroyed the, uh, he's the, uh, he's the, uh, there is no mafia today like no existence like it was when I you know up until 2010 when I was there yeah in Springfield he destroyed it Art Rti Nigro into around 2002 three right around there late 2002 he's got this guy John Bloney coming up in 01 and he's like a messenger back and forth between the Genevice family in New York and the faction and they used to come up to Springfield because that's where we are. headquarters outside of New York with Springfield.

Right. You know, for Connecticut. Yeah. You know. So this guy was coming up, and he starts coming up, real low-life looking. Six-foot-three, heavy-set guy, wore glasses, had a scruffy beard. You know, it just looked like the first time I met him, I had a bad vibe with him. I said, this guy is no good.

He starts coming up, and he starts planting himself every weekend in Springfield. And he's getting to know me more, getting to know our crew more. I have the biggest crew. I have the most vicious crew. I have the most violent crew. I have everything going on. There was two guys that were supposed to be getting made with me. This kid, Joey and Reno.

Joey didn't have shit going on. He just came home from prison like a couple years before. So he didn't have no crew. He didn't have no money making shit on the street. In fact, I was helping him, you know, make money in the loan shark and the sports. The other kid, Reno was a construction worker. And those two were going to get made. So now New York is coming up and they see what's going on here.

I own nightclubs. I own restaurants. I had all this stuff on the street going on. I had the crew with me. We go to Hartford, Connecticut. I had the biggest nightclub there. I'm taking these guys out when we go out. So it was like, I'm entertaining them.

And so this guy's going back to reporting to New York and they're saying this kid, Anthony is killing it. Yeah, he's killing it. So I'm getting a big reputation. So Arty now at this time goes from a soldier to becoming a boss, which is you don't hear that, right? And the reason why they're using a panel and the guy that one of the bosses on the panel was going to go to jail for five years,

he wanted his guy, Artie, to fulfill his spot. Artie ends up getting the spot. The other two bosses didn't want Artie there. So that goes to show you that they didn't want Artie there. He wasn't the guy for the job. And he got bumped up in Springfield or in New York? No, this is New York. The New York is where the bosses are.

And when I see it like that, they're the one that make the decisions, what's going on in our area, like who's going to be boss at our area. And no money went down to New York. Like I was telling you. Until already becomes boss now. Now we start doing shakedowns in our area. We're shaking down. We built it up.

It was supposed to be 500 and 500 from these two guys. This got it on the strip club. They were supposed to pay 500 a week. It went from 1,000 a week to like 50,000 a month. We were shaking down people. Everyone was getting shaken down. That's bad. Street guys, businesses.

Right. And that's what already created through this piece of shit. And the guy, John Bologna, wasn't a made guy. Right. So around 2002-ish and right around three, I'm down in the Bronx, New York. And now Artie's getting to really, he's the boss now. And I know it, but Bruno doesn't know it. And Bruno's the boss.

So I'm in the know because I'm close with this guy, John, even though, you know, I don't trust him. Kind of. Like, you know, I don't like him, but he's direct with Artie. Yeah. Even though he's not a made guy. So I don't know anything. I just know I don't like him, but I don't know anything else, right? So I'm down in the Bronx, New York, and I'm with Artie, and a guy pulls up, we get in his car, it's the boss of the Gambino family.

And he says, he's John Belloni there. He calls him J.B. He says, what's J.B. doing here? He says, he's no good. He's an informant. He's a rat. We chased him. And Artie says, you know, that's good to know, this, that, whatever. He's, you know. So I get out of the car and we're talking alone me and Ardy. So what's up with that? Why is he saying that? You know, like, what this guy goes out, I don't pay no mind. They're jealous that he's around me now. What? Yeah.

Why would they be jealous of like a nobody? So that's what he told me. And so this was like around 03-ish, right? Now this guy, John, like I said, he was coming up every weekend. Okay. As he's coming up, we're doing all kinds of shakedowns. And I said, John, did you get a bad feeling about these shakedowns? Yeah, we never did them.

Yeah. And I was just going to tell you, I just was going to tell you. I go, John, you know, well, you got us shaking down. you can get third 20 years for this 30 years i mean it's extortion and it's you know a threat to violence we're mob guys and they give you to a wreck they're 20 years you know and i go you know we could get 20 years with our records 30 years we had horrible records i go would you be doing this in your area he goes are you fucking kidding me he goes i'd get 30 years i go then why are we doing it in our area you know that's what a scumbag piece of shit he is and ardy's giving them the you know them the

okay and bruno's involved too so he's just his blame but right but already you know And then Bruno's Siph, giving them some money back to New York. So out of that $50,000, Bruno's sending like $12,000, $15,000 a month of that down to New York. That's the first time ever money started going down there. See what I'm saying? And now John's coming up, John Balloon is coming up, and he's seeing everything going on.

And Artie's the official boss of our area because, you know, but so what? They never operated like that. Right. We were our own entity. We're murderers. We're mobsters. We're racketeers.

We're gangsters. where everything that they are. And we're, you know, so now their goal is they want to take everything because directly if there's a made guy in our area and he's got a guy like the strip club guy, Jimmy Santonello, Anthony DeLavo had him, big earner, making $100,000 a net and $100,000 multimillioner,

a hundred million dollar man. But he's partners with Anthony DeLavo, who's a Mad Hatter boss of our area, killer. They're taking his money. taking his guy and extorting him. How were you going to take a made guy's guy away from him? And that's what they wanted to do. There's scum, scumbbags in New York that were doing this.

When I say New York, Artie and John, because they were, Artie was a boss. So Artie was a greedy little boss. And now they want to go after Bruno because Bruno's too smart for them. Bruno was like not, he's going to give him some, but Bruno's got it coming in from all directions. Bruno's got billion-dollar deals going on.

Like, I mean, he's got like major. How so? So there was one. Yeah, so he's had one guy with a, he had, Bruno had all walks of life, people love him. Like he had Carabeta with, back in the day, was the biggest real estate in the country. If you go back and search Carabeta,

uh, real estate and all that. They owned, they were one of the biggest, if not, you know, right on the top of the whole country in owning real estate. And he was friends with those.

those guys, multimunals, they had something going on with some mineral mine in another country that they were working on. They were working on a cigarette deal out of construction. And that's what happened. On one of those deals, a captain in the Genevice family in Florida, Ray Ruggiero, puts together a deal. I was down in Florida with Bruno. We were talking with Ray. He's talking about this cigarette deal. Bruno's got the, Bruno's got the cigarette deal. And, but he needs help from the Genovese family. So Artie tells him to go talked to Ray Reggero, the captain down in Florida. I go with Bruno.

Ray, because they needed help, because it was somehow the state of Maryland was involved in this cigarette deal from China. They said they had the governor on the, you know, corrupt. No shit. But they needed $250,000 to pay them off. So Bruno's guys and his guys come up with $250,000.

They go down and they bring it to Ray and they're supposed to pay it the governor of Maryland. And they're waiting for the governor to pass something that was going so they could get the okay with this big. I mean, this is going to be a most hundreds of million dollar deal. Cigarettes in China. Yeah.

Something that was going on. You're bringing the cigarettes from China here. I don't know the exact thing. As I know, it was cigarettes in China and it was a major deal. They came up with $2.50 to give the governor. It was a robbery. They robbed them. Now that's a maid guy robbing another made guy.

A captain, which is a boss in Florida, robbing another boss in Massachusetts. Right. And already giving the okay, you know, giving the okay to it and getting a piece from it. Fuck. Scumback. Scumbag. So now, if they were going to do that to Bruno, you know, their goal was to take Bruno down, make him a soldier because they had to get him out of the way. So that was their mission.

That was their goal. Right. Just to get him out of the way where they're not going to kill him or not. And they're just going to say, Bruno, you're stripped of your rank. We don't like the job you're doing. And he wasn't doing a fucked up job. They just wanted to take more money from our area. Yeah.

You know, this is what was going on. Now, at this time, I'm getting close with New York. Artie's, I'm going down there a lot. This piece of shit. John, he used to bring up a cruel guy's from New York. I used to, you know, good guys. You know, I liked them all younger guys. So I used to hang around with my guys.

We were all vicious and violent and, you know, dangerous. So, you know, I liked them. But John would go to Artie and tell them all this shit. And Artie was like, this kid, John would be like, you got to straighten this kid out. This kid's the real deal. So Artie, at this time, around 03, there's a labor dispute between Artie and this labor boss. in New York, Union Bus, and something to do with the Lou Casey family,

but Artie wants the guy killed. The Union boss. Union boss. He calls me, John tells me, Arty wants me to go down and see him down in New York. I go down. Artie says, you know, I want you to, can you, I don't know how he said it, but he tells me this is where the guy parks.

This is where he comes out every day at 6 o'clock in the morning, and he wants me to kill him. Artie comes himself to show me where the guy parks and where he comes out. It was in the Bronx. So I go back and he said use Joey and Reno, the two guys I told you that were supposed to get made. Right. Okay, because they were proposed guys.

Right. So tell them, because already what he's looking to do now, he's looking to make the three of us and have them direct with him down there. He's looking to build an army within an army. Right. So we're all loyal with him. Right. And we're direct with him. And he's got more control of our area because now we have to take direct orders from him.

So even though you don't like this guy, you see that he's fucking up the money. You're playing it like. I don't like John, but already at this time, it's not like I don't like him at this point because he ain't doing nothing to me. You know, he's like, he's the boss and who gives the fuck? He's not taking no money out of my pocket. I don't like the way the way. I'm just telling you how everything is transcribing, you know, the way everything was going on. I don't have no hatred for him yet.

He's making it hot, though. He's making it. Yeah, he's making it hot. You know, also when these extortions were going on, we had fucking heat from law enforcement like you never believed. Right. That's why I told him. Then we had it like a, where they came out, we got a paper. I don't know how we ended up getting this paper with all our names that were involved in the extortion conspiracy.

Fuck. Yeah. And it was coming out of New York. So they were building a case. And they were hot on our ass. They put a GPS listening device in my truck. I had a, um, a fucking, uh, expedition. Expedition.

Yeah. Got a new one. Bro, because I'm nice with it. You're good, man. So, uh, they were on us hard. Okay. So, um, Had you killed anybody up to this point?

No. I was a violent guy growing up, never killed. I plotted to kill people at this time. We had shootings at this time, but never killed anything. So I go back to Springfield. I tell the Joey and Reno kids, there are, Arty wants you to come on a hit,

kill a guy in New York. Joey, scared, take me off the list, runs away. Reno, nice kid, whatever, he says, because at this time now, there's a lot of craziness going on. there's Bruno that's supposed to be the boss. Then there's me that they respect. They know shit's going on like, you know, because I'm around Bruno.

But then you got this guy Felix that Reno was around. And then you got the guy John coming up. That's direct with Artie. So Reno was just like confused. He didn't know what the fuck to do. So they, these guys don't come with me. I go to my other two friends, three kids, Freddie and Ty. I said, and they're violent like me.

We're all crazy, but the three of us. I said, you want to come kill a guy with me? in New York and they were right away say yeah. So during that first week or whatever, we make plans to go down there. We just go down there to see where the guy parks, where he gets out. And as we're going to do that,

we see the guy come out of his house at 6 o'clock in the morning because we were down there at that time, but we didn't have guns on us. Yeah. You know, we're not going to get out and beat him to death with a bat, you know, so. You're casing. Yeah, so we went out, but he did come out at 6.

He walked right by us. We're driving down the street. He comes walking right by. So the next day or the next day after, we go down with guns. We post up on the street. We had a steel, not a steel car. We had a steel plates off a car in New Haven, Connecticut, put them magnet them on our car that we had. We had guns with silencers.

Now we got to wait for this. And plus it's like a two-hour ride from Springfield in New York. So we got to wait for this guy to come out. I tell the guys put the guns underneath the car in case cops pull up. They're like, hey, what are you guys doing parked in a car? You know, well, we're waiting for some girls. and they tell us, well, all right, no big deal. If they search the car, there's no guns in the car.

We've got them underneath the car. Guy doesn't come out of his house. So now we've got to go all the way back with Springfield with the guns, right? Now, that's a risk right there with our records. We're looking at 20 years with silencers. We all have bad records. State prison records. We're all bad guys, right?

So now the next time we go down, I tell Freddie, go down and rent a room, bring the guns, right near the place we're going to go. Then me and Thai fall out go down there. and we jump into the car, we pick up Freddy, we go to the spot where we're going to kill the guy. Freddy's the driver, he parks down the street. Me and Ty sit on a bench. There's a little marsh that's a little parked away over there.

That's where we kept the guns. We're sitting there waiting for the guy to get out. It's around quarter to six. The guy comes out around that time, quarter to six, six, quarter past six. Ty's got to go take a piss. You know, it comes back. I said, busting his balls, light in the mood. I said, Ty, what are you doing?

You just left your DNA all over the place. We're going to kill a guy 100 feet away. The cops are going to come. This place is going to be loaded with cops. Your DNA's all over the fucking bushes. He goes, are you serious? He's looking at me like he just fucked up. I'm only teasing him busted his balls, right?

As we're doing this, the guy is coming out of the house. He's like almost across the street walking, you know, I go, fuck, there he is. Grab the gun. So we go, hurry up, we grab the guns and we start walking fast down the sidewalk. And then we cut through the park cars because it was a street with all park cars. And you got the street and all park cars. So we cut through the cars.

he's just getting into his car. And here we come up right to his driver's side window. And the two of us, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. We shot like 18 shots to the nine of them hit him. Freddy pulls up and we get out of there. He's gone? What? He's gone.

He's wasted. We think he is. Like he, when we left, Freddie pulled up and he, he says, oh, yeah, he's definitely, he's dead. He was like, he was like there with his mouth open, blood everywhere. You know, the window was shattered. Blood. You could see blood. and was it pretty wild to like see the the bullet coming out of the silencer you know tie got to the

right i was to the left and tie put his gun up first and went bang and the window just shattered yeah and then we were just pumping the bullets into the car was it pretty surreal for you like you know it was like i said we were built for that you know um it's you know six o'clock in the morning we're stone cold sober you know this is our third time down there to do it there was no none of that where the nerves kick in. There was none of, you know, we're just thinking, you know, we were just nuts. Like, you know, I look back at it now. It's like, you know, we're going to kill a guy for no reason.

And for any, you know, for what? At the end of the day to, but the mafia was still a big presence back then. And all three, the Genevice family R area. I mean, there was still was a big, but, you know, we didn't need to be part of that. Me and those two brothers and the crew that I had besides them, The money makers I had, the guys that were vicious as fuck, you know, we didn't need to be made members. I already had my own crew and I don't even call up my crew. I call it my, my, my, an associate and my friends of mine. It's right. You know, like if you me and you were in weed business,

you know, uh, partners were, you know, yeah, he's my good friend like, you know, like, you know, and I didn't believe in shaking down people. I didn't like that business. I was a business minded guy. I believed in doing business with people. I believed networking. I believed in, you know, everyone making money, you know, putting guys with people. Let's all make money. And that's how, that's why I built the biggest bunch of guys. And I had all kinds of, you know, guys around me. But it's this cultural thing where just a young Italian kid from the 70s and 80s, you're like, that's, that's getting drafted into the big leagues. And I got to do what I got to do to get my, you know, my jackets. Right. And I was taken it with a grain of thought, like grain of salt. Like Bruno wanted to make me

in the 90s, I could say, yeah, whatever. And, you know, now he wanted to make me again in 01. I said, yeah, whatever. And now this guy got me going to shoot a guy. And we just did it because I didn't think I was going to get made over that. You know, I'm not thinking that. I'm just thinking like if you told us go give a guy a beat in, we would go. If there was somebody bothered us. And, you know, we, I told you, we were going to kill someone prior to this and we were all set to kill him. He got lucky he didn't get killed. But that was going to be a body case. And so it was just in us, things like that, violence and all that. It was just something that we just didn't,

you know, we just would do it. So when a guy asked us to go down and kill a guy in New York, it wasn't like, you know, someone else, even me, I looked back then and saying, Jesus, you guys are fucking nuts, but that's how we were back then. Yeah, you kind of did things unthinking.

If the boss said so, but if the boss said, we would just do something. Yeah, it was like thinking stupidly. Like, like looking back, yeah, not thinking, not thinking for yourself. Yeah. Being just like an idiot.

That's right. Like I'm a millionaire at this point, multi-million. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like I got a family. I got kids. I got what the fuck? I'm risking my life to go shoot some guy in New York City.

Right. And kill a guy for, you know what I'm saying? For, you know, I look back at that now. But at that time, it was like I said, it was like asking nothing, you know. But I think, you know, to be fair, culturally, this is how you grew up. You know, you obviously made a lot of bad decisions. But there's many people from different subcultures that were violent that did things in their 20s and 30s that they're now 60 years old and being like, hope. I was a totally different person.

Right. You know? And yeah, I was on another podcast earlier. I said the same thing. I was like, sometimes people do things when they're 17. Like I said, my head of friend, I was in prison when man, he killed someone at 17. He ended up doing 30 years. He was a mistake.

The kid, great, great, great, great kid, you know, great man. Right. And, you know, it's just you make mistakes, bad decisions. when you're a young guy. And to me, that wasn't a bad decision going down and killing the guy because it was just my whole life was bad decisions. You know what I'm saying?

So you can't say one was worse than the other. It was just like not thinking clearly, maybe not having a strong enough mentor to say, hey, you fucking idiot, what are you stupid? Fuck you fucking, fuck them are. You guys are capable of killing someone. What do you fuck you need them for? You guys are making millions of dollars.

What do you need them for? Yeah. Fuck them. I think peer pressure is part of it too. And there was a guy in my area that got made a young kid who I hated at the time, Emilio Fusco. He tried to get me killed and he was a, you know, we call him a zip or whatever. He came over from Italy and they made him. And we didn't think he deserved to get made.

So I was like, it kind of like said, you know, like, and I was thinking that camaraderie type shit too. Like, you know what? We could build something here, you know, because then we did become friends and we got close. So I said, you know, maybe we could build some here. We know, make four or five guys. There was some Connecticut guys I wanted to put in with us. Yeah. And we could have like a nice little, you know, club, right, you know.

But this union boss doesn't sound like he died. Right. Okay, so continue. So the next day we get word that he's dead. He's in the hospital, but he's on life support. Right. Got shot nine times and he's not going to make it. So we got word from Bologna.

And, but, you know, a day or two later, we find out, you know, hands up not dying. He got shot nine times. Every shot was from his neck up. Okay, so his nine shots that hit him. I think he still got the bullets. There was another thing. He actually came out and talked about it on one of our podcasts called Up Against the Mob. The guy that did that was the prosecutor of the Southern District of New York. So he had him come on and he explained it. He said that one of the bullets is still in him. Miraculously, this guy survived. How, I don't know. And the guns that I used to kill him were given to me by the boss, Artie Nigro. So if he wants to blame anybody for getting better at headshots, like he told me,

well, you gave us the guns. We shot him from the neck up. I mean, think about it. You're sitting in the car like you are now and two guys come up and you're kind of tall. So a picture you're sitting in your car, these guys are shooting at you and they're standing up. Where do you think the shots are hitting you? They're not hitting you in your foot or your neck. Yeah, yeah.

He did. He said he got hit all the upper chest, his head, whatever. And he miraculously, the guy lived, survived. So what happens next? What became of that? So, you know, Artie loves us. The bosses in New York love us because they had okay to hit. And we're like a badass crew of me and my guys.

I'm a badass and my crew's a badass. We're known for being a vicious crew that was able to go to New York and do a hit for them. Right. You know, even though the guy didn't die was still on the streets in New York. We shot him nine times and whatever. It was like balls. Yeah, it's luck. But now they know they got guys like us that are capable.

Yeah. In both ways. Like not them. I'm the, I was like more like money wise. Like I put them on to shit, make them a lot of money. But like I was like I had a crew of guys that were we, we, we, I made millionaires out of my crew. Like not just me making millions. I made millionaires out of the guys that were around me.

And so we were capable of violence, murder and money. So I got a great reputation all throughout. out in Connecticut. Because the Genevice family had other guys throughout Connecticut, too. They had Buster Ardito, notorious, notorious maniac of a gangster. He was out of Stanford. They got this other guy, Gus Curseo, another killer, Bridgeport area, and facing that Genovese.

So it's like they're all getting like feedback like there's a kid Anthony. Bosses in New York, Larry Dentico, Mario Gigante, who was like kind of a mentor to me. Mario. Right. It was like these guys know, like are now aware of you. They, that Larry Reid, they were bosses. Then they told this one guy in my area, there was a thing going on. He goes, you'd treat Anthony like you would treat me.

And that's coming from a boss in New York. Right. So that's the reputation I had after that. So now you're really on the radar from the most important people in the Genevieve's family. What, did you get straightened out? Yeah. That was like the head hit was like in April. I got straightened out in August.

Okay. Day before my daughter was born. brought you down to New York to do? Brought me to in the Bronx, yeah. They do the prick of the finger. Everything, gun and a knife on the table. They pick you up. You leave all your jewelry at the restaurant that you meet at.

Beepers, gun, I mean, you know, your jewelry. You leave all that there. They take you for a ride where you're going. At that time, there was four of us that were going to made, and they took two of us at a time each, right? So it would take you there, and then you go in the guy who whispers in your, you go make sure when they ask you, do you know why you're there? I mean, come on, everyone knows that.

You know why you're there? No, I don't know why I'm here. But the guy whispered a captain in the family whispered, so they bring us there. And there was captains there. And like I said, already took over his boss at this time for the Bronx area, New Jersey, no, Bronx, Florida, and Connecticut and Mass.

Right. Then they had Mario doing Manhattan. Then they had Larry doing New Jersey. And so they were using it like that, you know, because the Chinagante, he was in prison, and Dominic, Quiet Dom, he was getting ready to go to prison or if he wasn't in it at that point. But this is a very organized crew. I've never heard of three bosses that have different pieces of turf, different territories.

And with them, you don't even know if it was really like that. They could have three front panel guys on the panel, but I believe it was like that. Oh, okay. But, you know, and then they had some other guy that was hidden that was really the boss, you know. So, you know, but that's what they were doing. Okay. At that particular time. So how did life change, if at all, after you got straightened out?

Nothing. Not a fucking thing. It was like, in fact, not a thing changed. I went down in August 12th. I get my button, August 11th. I get my button and I come back to Springfield. And it was the same exact thing. Other than having black marks on my hand from burning the same tissue and, you know,

crumpling it up and the fire, you know, there was no, I already had a feared reputation, a feared crew. they knew I had money. I had a networking system with me. You know, I guess what it did was, the only thing benefit I did was now is, say for instance, there was a beef, you were my partner in Connecticut,

and somebody went in on him to try to shake him down, which just happened before. It was a maid guy went in there to try, not a maid guy, but somebody went in there to shake him down. Well, he's got to go now to somebody to help sit for him, to straighten it out.

Now I'm that guy. Right. You know, it's like before it would, we wouldn't even care before. We'd be like, get the fuck out of here. You ain't shaking down none of us, you know? Right.

But now it's official where we could sit down with, say, you know, some other family or some, you know, some straighten out. Right. That did happen in Connecticut where we had a beef with the, not a beef with the patriarchas.

Someone went in affiliated with the patriarchas and tried to do that. And, you know, I went and sat with, Louis from Providence. He was the boss of the patriarchas. Carmen Denund. He was the boss of Boston for the patriarchas, and we straightened it all out. So now you can sit down and mediate with bosses, with other families.

Which I did, right. And Providence, boss knows the patriarchas know I'm made, but we kept it a secret from, because I got introduced to them as made guys, but we kept it low in my media area. We didn't want the heat from law enforcement. So Bruno didn't know I was made. The only one that knew, yeah, the only one that knew was Felix Tringese. and my guys, a couple guys in my crew, like, you know, they knew. So how does, and as time moves on, how is all this extortion that already is doing in your area,

how does this kind of come to a head, you know? It sounds like somebody's going to get killed or the feds are going to come. Right. So at this point, I tell you, Bruno was running out of favor with them. They robbed them for $250,000. Their mission now, I'm a maid guy. I got straightened out in August of 2003. Now, Bruno was in bad favor with them.

And for no reason, I mean, only for the fact is they want to steal everything from our area and with Bruno out of the way. And I have to take orders from Marty now. He wanted me to shake my friend down for $10,000, my partner in the bar. I wouldn't do it. I ended up giving them the $10. But I fucking, listen, I got that $10 back plus 100 times more from them, you know. So when I officially became, you know, the guy, you know, so being made in New York, I had all the power because that's where the power is, New York. they're the boss of the family.

We have power, but like I said, they're the overall say when it comes to murder. But it was never nothing bad until already became boss. And this piece of shit, John is an informant. Not only did the Gambino say he was an informant, Patriarch, O'Reco Petrillo, and Beaver to sons Anthony from the patriarch who said,

this guy's an informant. Then we have a faction in Springfield, Abbas Chabelle, and his rack crew, his son-in-law, who's an informant, right? the accountant, the brother sat on a deal and went to the grand jury, the other one. So they even knew they got word that this guy, Bologna, was an informant. So we have an active guy. And now Bologna knows about the union guy in New York.

So he knows about something very serious. He knows about the extortions. And he's come to find out, he is an informant. We find out later. And he was an active informant from the 90s. So everybody that told us this were 100% right. The guy wasn't an active informant. It came out publicly that he was from the 90s.

So Bruno is going to be taken. He doesn't know, I'm boss, but he senses something's not right. And he still thinks he's my boss. And he does, now I have all the power down in New York. I am the man now. Right. That makes you boss of Springfield. That makes me the most powerful guy outside of New York.

Yeah. It's like I got made direct with the bosses. Right. You know what I'm saying? So I don't answer to nobody but them. and they love me. I just shot a guy nine times for them. I'm like,

they love the fuck out of me. So I have all the power. I don't have to do anything to Bruno. You know, I just, I'm doing my own thing. I don't hate Bruno. I don't like him.

I like Bruno. I don't have no beef with Bruno. It's just I'm, I'm on my own. No one tells me what to do. So Bruno's like, he goes, you know, why don't you,

you know, he's giving me some grief. Like, you know, we're out, we got in, we beat somebody up at one of his places. We gave some people a beating. And he goes,

you know, why, who do you think you are? These guys that come up from New York, you think they come up to see you or me. I go, I don't know. I'm the one taking them out all the time, you know. So he goes, yeah, they come up to see you, Bruno. And he goes, and why do you defy me? Why do you do this? He goes, you want me to chase you?

You want me to put you on the shelf? And I said, now I'm already a great guy with you. I go, Bruno, if that's what you want to do, do it. And, but I got a message for you from New York. From who Pat and Artie, Pat DeLuca was a captain. That's the guy that, I suspect that Artie jumped over to be. boss. Pat should have been the boss for sure. He was a captain at the time anyways. And already him were closed, but he jumps Pat DeLuca. So he, and when I told Bruno this, I never seen Bruno

rattled. Bruno was a savvy, smooth gangster, you know, and he was a gangster. And I could see him get rattled. The wheels were spinning. Like, what do you mean they want you to go down? Well, how did you go down there? Why did they call you? What would they say? He asked me what they said about five times. Like, well, how did they say it? What did they do? And what did they say? And he was just rattled. And I said, listen, they said they're going to call you. They said, wait, about a week, they're going to send for you. So that's the message. So Bruno looks, I mean, he goes, he goes, he goes, he points on my chest and he goes, he goes, you got your button. And I said, Bruno, I didn't get my button. I don't know nothing about button, but I'm just giving you a message. Why would you have not, why would you

have lied? Because they told me not to tell them. They said they wanted to keep, so the Genevice family very shrewd. They want to keep the bosses in New York. You never know who they are. The chin was supposedly the boss when Fat Tony was there. They had another guy that was an old timer. I always forget his name. He was the boss for a while. They switch it up. They throw you off, right?

So with me, they were going to pop up this guy, Felix, who was a made guy in Springfield. And they were going to make him like the lightning ride, just like they did to this guy, Rooster in 2016, with that big case with the 47 guys, with Marlino and all them. I remember that. Yeah, they put Rooster up as a boss in New York.

He's from Connecticut. Yeah, you're the Boston Mulberry Street now, you've done me. You take all the heat. Right. He ended up driving around a federal agent. They had another informant going to him. He lasted, I think, a two years, not even a year, two years. And he got, you know.

Yeah. So they want to take Bruno down. They're going to prop Felix up and keep me under the radar. That's why they don't want me to tell Bruno. And there's so many informants today. Right. They are like the guy, Jimmy Santonelli, he was an informant that owned the strip club from the 80s. Right.

There's informants why they know, they just want information. They want to know everything. But when the murders start happening and dropping, that's when they really, you know, but they want to know everything, and that's what the informants do. And so they want it. And is like a cop that is infiltrates a spy.

He's like a spy. You know, he's like, what do they do when they were at war or other countries? They send spies in, right? Well, that's what an informant is. Informant is like spying on the organization for the, for the government, you know, and they have them everywhere.

They have him gone for decades. Yeah. And you're never going to find out who they are, That's why when they say the guys are rat, we'll prove it. We want paperwork. You can't get paperwork on it informant. You know, he's an asset to the government. They protect him.

They hide them. You know, I'm not talking about a guy that testified in trials and things. I'm talking about an asset that they implement as a spy. Who's paid? Never gets serviced. Six figures a year. Yeah, you'll see the investigation. CI number or whatever, blah, blah, blah, states that they're using this house to

do sports gambling out of them. And you're thinking, like, who the hell could be CI? to be like 30 different people. Right. You know. So it sounds like the New York bosses wanted, they found you the most valuable. That's why they didn't want you on the map as boss.

Correct. Okay, got it. From law enforcement, screwing. Well, protect me, you know, like, you know, like, you know, keep me under the radar, which was great for me. Yeah. You know, and, but the people that needed to know,

Boston, Providence, out the patriarchas in Connecticut, guys like that. RICO Petrillo, great guy, those guys, just so they know that who I was, I got introduced to them. Okay. When I say introduced as a mafia guy.

Fascinating. And this is why the Genevice persist to this day and thrive because they had this kind of sudderfuge is that they employ that. Not only that into 2003 when I got made, they went on their own. Like there was so much bad shit going on with the Gambinos, Bananos, other families that they disassociated themselves with them. Like usually you pass out a list to tell the other families, this guy is going to get made. This guy where they didn't, we don't do that.

more. They didn't do that no more. They stopped telling the other families. You know, they just got real secret, you know, secret with everything. And they isolated themselves not only from, not only bosses from the family, but other families, they isolated it. Okay. So that's why you didn't tell Bruno. So you, Bruno says, he's not the only made guy in our area. Like, we didn't tell none of them in the Springfield area. Felix only knew because they were looking to put that dummy up as the lightning rod. So what it, you're talking to Bruno. He says you guys, you guys. made you say no i didn't i said no i didn't and he said yeah you did he goes you got your fun and you know how i know he know so my friend louis was really close with i pled guilty to conspiracy to murder

louis he was my friend i told you i grew up with and they wanted me to kill him and so he was close with bruno at the time and he said he knew you were made aunt he goes he said when you treat anthony treat him like you would be talking to me he made sure he told louis to say that don't don't get out of line with anthony and another thing that he got told about the story i was telling earlier was Larry Dentico told this guy Jake Ennis, who was a killer in our area. Him and Bruno got indicted for an attempted murder. They shot a guy five times at Bruno's house. The guy didn't die, and they had to go to trial for it.

Phil Leonetti, the underboss of the Philadelphia crew testified against Bruno because Bruno thought he was going to get whacked or it because the guy didn't die. And he went to Nick. He was close with Nikki Scarfo and he said, you try to get Nicky to help him with all that. He was close with Nikki Scarfo and he was always on his boat and doing business with the Philadelphia family. So, where were we at? Bruno doesn't believe you.

He's like, ah, you got your button. He does. Oh, so, and at this time, Jake Ennis sent, he wanted to talk with me, and Bruno didn't want me hanging around with this, Emilio Fusco, who was a maid guy. Bruno didn't trust him. And I would always be hanging around with Amelio. And I told you, I didn't like Emilio. He didn't like me.

He tried to have me killed. I wanted to kill him. But he actually dug the hole with me and did a murder with two murders with me. So we ended up being close. Okay, so you ended up catching bodies. Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah, yeah.

Go into that, please. We'll get there. Yeah, well, Bruno, the boss in New York told the guy Jake Ennis, because I told him what happened. The guy called for me and told him like, this guy, you know, wants to know why I'm defying Bruno. And this guy, Larry Dentico was in prison with Jake. He got a hold of him and said, hey, when you see the kid Anthony, treat him like you would see me. And that was it. And that got back to Bruno.

So Bruno knew I was a made guy, but he didn't know formally. So how did that cause a rift? between you guys? No, he just knew something was up. He was carrying a gun. He was told by the feds there was a hit out on his life, but not by us. I don't know who was trying to hit him. And he was just, but he knew something was up. They robbed

them for 250,000. Scumbag Ardy and Ray. Right. And you know, their own brotherhood brothers robbing each other, same family. I mean, you would have never seen that by another boss in that family. Yeah, it's getting messy. It's way too messy for Jeremy. Way too messy. It's just, you know, bad

bad boss. And why did you end up, what's story with those bodies. The holes you dug. So, so the murders, I ended up killing my wife's sister's husband. That was one murder. And then your wife's sister's husband. So technically your brother-in-law. My brother-in-law. And I killed, Bruno ended up getting killed. And I, okay, let's start on the first one. I mean, uh, you killed your brother-in-law. Most, most married men would like to do that. No, well, with him, he was like 30 years older than her. He had her hooked on drugs. Well, she was on drugs.

She was 20 years old. He was 50. He just came home from prison. I met him in 96. He had a case with my friend Freddie. We were going to kill him in 96. That was one of the murders. I told you we were going to kill him.

Luckily, he got away with that. They ended up doing four years in prison. They come home in 01. He starts hooking up with my sister-in-law, my wife's sister. And he was an organized crime criminal, but he was a drug user. He wasn't, he was a. degenerate. Yeah, you want to call him

He was a criminal, but he wasn't... Yeah, he wasn't classy type. He was an organized crime criminal. He was like, you know, he did his prison time, shit like that, but he was on drugs. He would give my sister-in-law drugs. He wasn't a guy you would want with your daughter or somebody like that. So my family's bust in my boss, my wife's family.

They want me. Long story, they want me to kill him. They don't come out and say that, but they're press for me. So I make another plan to kill him. We set up, and luckily he didn't die that night because he parked in a spot where he had a Porsche. And by the time I got to the car, we thought his car was over there. By the time we got up, I had Freddie setting him up, my guy, Freddie, that went on the hit with me to go kill the guy in New York.

So by the time they got in the Porsche, Freddie was already in the Porsche. I had this, my friend Michael driving me, and we were going to go kill him. But I went out of shooting the car. Probably could have hit Freddy too, so we passed on it. And then I passed on the whole hit because my wife's mother went out to dinner with them and kind of like said, okay, the relationship. their father still wanted them dead. They owned a sausage, a delicacy,

Italian store, my wife's father, and he still hated him. He still wanted him. And that's the reason why I was going to kill me, pumped it up. He goes, I got no respect for you. You're supposed to be,

you know, this guy and blah, blah, bye. That's why I was going to go kill him that night. So we pass on the hit and then we find out that he's an informant and now we're going to kill him. At this particular time, though,

I'm in another shootout. and with other shit going on that I'm trying to actively kill this other crew of guys, this other group. So that's going on at the same time. And then the order comes down. Yeah. So we're going to just stick with this murder. But at this same time, the order comes down to kill Bruno. Also to kill my other friend, Louis.

And all this is going on. And I'm trying to kill this other family, the Manzi family. And all this is going on while my brother-in-law, Gary, gets killed. So we're trying to actively kill Louis, which I got a word from order from New York to do. If I don't do what I die, I get killed. He was my friend. They labeled them.

They put a bad label on him. The guys that did it were actually informants. Bab and his family were the informants. Testified a grand jury, mob accountant, proffered. Supposed to go to prison. Never went to prison. It's public record. Read the newspaper on him.

The Brazil's. And so... Did you feel some kind of way? You're like, I'm made now. bro. And I'm a millionaire. Why am I running around trying to kill all these people? It's too late for that. But I'm still like, like I said, I'm crazy. I'm nuts. There's a part of me that's just like, this is my, this is what I do. This is the life. This is what I do. And I didn't think of the consequences. And I, you know, and this is what I am. You know, it's like, but I was actively pursuing at this time someone I, I wanted to lustfully murder, like with bloodlust. I wanted to cut them in pieces, cut their heads off.

And that's who I was after was these, uh, this piece of shit. in my area that he actually worked for me in the marijuana business. And there was a thing that happened with us. We'll get into that. But that's who I was after the murder. So we get an order from New York to kill Louis, an order from New York to kill Bruno. And we find out Gary, my brother-in-law is an informant.

I have Freddie and Ty tell him that they're going to rob a house. And we planned this one day and killed him the next day, or the same day even. We said, go to him, tell him we're going to rob a staff. And I did have a stash house. I kept all the weed in that house. We had a dug already, hole already dug, eight foot hole dug. I had AK-47s there, grenades.

I had a million dollars worth of weed there at a time. And it was a perfect house too, off the road. You couldn't even see the house from the road. I mean, you could have killed 100 people in that house. It seems like it's way easier to catch a body in Springfield, the New York City, right? There's a lot of remoteness up there, right? Oh, you mean to get rid of the body? No, I mean to get away with it.

Seems like you can get away with a murder a lot easier. in Springfield. I don't know. If you're killing, if you're whatever, I don't think it's wherever you are. I mean, yeah,

maybe. Maybe because we have more houses. I think it's just more remote. Yeah, I think it's more rural. It's a little rural. Yeah. That could be true.

Yeah. But in New York, they chop them up too. So like they get rid of them that way too. You can tell I'm not a gangster because every time we talk about murders on this show, I'm like,

well, how are we going to get away with it? Like, that's the first old old, I mean, nobody. I don't think there's a way today to actually kill someone and get away with it. But if you are, get rid of the body.

Yeah. You know, make the body disappear. Okay. So tell us about Gary. I don't like Gary. I don't feel bad about his demise. Yeah. And I, you know, like, when I say, like, I feel bad because for his family, I know he had, say he had a kid, I feel bad in that aspect.

Yeah. So I don't want to feel bad, like, say, like, I have no remorse for that. Okay. But we chose that life. Yeah. I could die tomorrow. Yeah. I go back and I could get murdered.

We're certainly not judging you. Right. So, you know, I did, I did, you know, that's the life we chose. And we kill other bad guys, kill bad guys. So I tell Freddie and Ty, tell him we're going to rob a house. Me, I go grab Emilio Fusco, the maid guy, Italian guy. He's my age. And I said, we're going to kill Gary tonight.

You want to call me? He said, sure. He's having a drink with a girl at some nice restaurant in East Lung Meadow. I pick him up. I got Tony Vitrano driving me. Crazy old time Italian grease ball from Italy. Funniest guy alive, but he's not a gangster. So I said, Tony, give us a ride.

He drops us off at my stash house, but I don't let him see where we go because I know we're going to kill someone. And we get dropped off a little bit further down. And we walked across the street. We walked me and Amelia walk to the house. We wait in the garage. Freddie and Ty are going to bring Gary there and tell him there's a robbery. We're going to rob a drug house. So the plan is they're going to.

shoot him and kill him. We're going to be there just in case, help him bury the body. And if you know what, if me and, if me and Emilio weren't there, Gary wanted to get died that night. They shot him seven times and it was a straw. If we weren't there, that man would probably would have got away. So, you know, it was an ugly murder. I mean, it was, it was, you know, it was a gruesome murder. In the house or? No, outside. He was walking around the house. Ty was shooting him as he was walking. And I was in the garage. I could hear him going out, ow, out and you could hear the footsteps going quicker and quicker and he's going out out and he's getting shot i think they found like seven or eight nine bullets in him when they found the body so they left the

body you guys didn't bury no we buried them okay yeah got you so um you know and then he was beaten with shovels and shot again in the head and then thrown in a hole yeah yeah well you've yeah so and then buried and then leaves put over the hole and in the backyard like i said it was a wooded area and you could have buried 100 people back there or was that good of a spot. Okay, so Gary's gone. What is your sister? So that night I go home and they knew right away

and they knew right away who the suspects were and they knew right away who killed him. That he was killed even though the body was missing. I mean, we had heat on us that next day, but I go home that night, get rid of the clothes, get rid of the guns, clean up, do all that shit. And I hear the phone ringing. I think it was later on.

I didn't get home until later on. Maybe it was either like four in a morning, five in a morning, that next morning, something like that. But I hear my wife on the phone talking, saying, well, maybe he's out with his friends where he went somewhere. She goes, no, I know he's something happened. He said he was going to meet Freddie and Ty. I know something happened.

And so she- Just like the movies. This is good fellas. Morty always comes home. He never stays out. So I hear my wife saying all this. Right. and then she comes into the room and she goes you know Gary didn't come home last I hope you didn't do anything I go get the fuck away from me were you like you like I was mad that she even asked me that what do you like what do you like even if I like she thinks I would tell her if something like that happened so I said get away from me and uh it just happened to be too you know it was weird that next morning the feds show up in my house and you know when you're picked up on a wire tap they have to like when they have you under like say it was a phone that was tapped if you got picked up on the

that phone they have to six months later or a year whenever something they have to come and give you the paper and notify you that you were picked up i get a knock on my door that morning the next morning around seven 30 and it was the feds what a coincidence yeah but they they we're here to give you the paper you were it's you were picked up on wire and i got that all the time they used to come and did that confirm your suspicions yeah gary was ratting oh he was 100% ratin because of uh it came out that he was, but the way law enforcement attacked afterwards, how they knew about it, you know, while he was being murdered, he even said something like the cops know about there, something like that to that effect, you know what I mean? But yeah, he was, it confirmed it. He was definitely an informant. That's no doubt. It came out that he was. We got word and the word was correct. So what does this do to your operations now that you got heat or you charged with this murder?

Not yet. Okay. So that was in November, like, say, 4th of 2023. Now we still got to kill. Of when? 2020. I mean, 2003. Okay.

Got. So that was like November. I think it was November 4th. And at this time, we still, so the hit now on Bruno was still intact. Right. And meanwhile, we're trying to kill this kid, Manzi kid. I'm sorry. Why do they want Bruno gone?

All right, so that's great. So Bruno was only going to get taken down from, we already went over that, from a captain to a soldier. Demoted. And Felix was going to be the light Enrod and I'm going to have all the power. Yeah. And they robbed them and they treated them like a sucker, right? Yeah. But then I told you there was a case that happened in 2000, evolving the other bosses in the R area, Springfield area.

They were going to go to prison. And there was like nine guys in total. Mm. One of the guys was Emilio Fusco. that we're talking about. And he was going to get two years, 24 months, 23 months, something like that, right? He ends up getting 33 months, 36 months, something like that. Why?

Because you're a made man. He denies it. Well, you can't deny it because we have a 302 that says you are, and they show him his 302. And the 302 is Bruno talking to an FBI agent. And Bruno admitting that the guy FBI agent asked Bruno is Emilio Fusco made. Yeah, Bruno says he was made while I was in prison. He's not a good kid. They asked him how many made guys are in the area.

He tells him that. He tells them, you know, a lot of other things pertaining like, you know, our mob circle of things. And that surfaces in the paper. Now, I don't know. You're going, wow. Do you think Bruno's a debt? Is that bad for Bruno? I mean, he's telling technically, right?

Well, so, but you think, like, you know, any mob guy you ask that scenario, they were going to say 100% he's a dead man, especially back then. Yeah. You know, today, probably not. But back then, he's a dead man. Now, I didn't come up with that paper, right? So what's the motive?

Why is he getting killed? Because of that paper. Yeah. That's the motive. That's the reason. Who came up with the paper? Came out in Emilio's 302, his discovery, when he was going to get sentenced.

Who brought the paper to New York? Felix Tringese Who ordered the Brought to New York to the bosses? Who ordered Bruno to get murdered? The bosses in New York. Who did they say

kill Bruno? Felix Tringese. I'm not involved none of this yet. Wow. You follow me? But Felix wasn't capable of murder. He had no crew that was capable of murder. So what happened is

that's how I end up getting involved in the Bruno murder because three weeks later, Gary, you know, and we were, told this prior to Gary getting murdered. Like I killed Gary without permission from New York. Like we were young, we were crazy. We were just, I was a nut, you know, so I killed Gary for no reason. I mean, not for no reason, with no permission. It sounds like Bruno just, this had been building

up. They had been turning against Bruno for a long time. Doing dirty deeds to him, these guys, right? And they were looking for an excuse. And then they finally got that. Exactly. You're smart. They finally got these instead of taking them down because he wasn't told he was getting demoted yet. Right. He was going to get told that. Yeah. Right? So you're right. Now they got an excuse for, oh, no, instead of taking them down and who they got.

They got the fucking dummies that are capable of murder to carry it out. But I wasn't told it. Right. Remember. And remember, I keep telling you I want to kill this kid Manzi over here viciously. I want to chop his head off. So that's who I want to kill. I don't want to kill Bruno.

Right. And I wasn't told to kill Bruno. Felix was. Felix was a made guy. He got told to kill Bruno. And he was the lightning rod. And he was the lightning rod. And he would take all the heat for it.

They told him because he had a guy, a couple guys around him that they were supposed to throw. Reno was one. He had an, but they weren't capable of killing. They weren't like my crew. Yeah. So he gets told to kill him and he can't kill him. Two, three weeks go by and he's not getting it done.

And I could give a fuck less because I'm still doing all my shit, but I'm trying to kill this guy. Right. The Mansee kid. And I'm actively pursuing that hard. I attempted to kill him dozens of times. Like, not a dozen, half a dozen times. I pled guilty to killing him.

You were a much better businessman than a killer. No offense. I think there was a lot of attempts, it seems like. Well, it's hard to kill and get away with it. You know, as far as like he, you know, when you're setting a guy up and he trusts you, it's easy. When a guy knows you hate him and he's on guard, it's hard. Yeah. You know, he's always on guard.

He knows that, you know, something could be going down. Sure, sure. When he goes to his car, he's always looking. He's paranoid. He's this. Good point. Yeah, so. Okay, so couldn't Felix, by the way, get killed for disobeying that order?

He didn't disobey. He just couldn't get it done. I see. Okay. So now this is like operatic. This is Italian. And he was like dragging his feet. Right.

It's like, you know, if they told him get it done tomorrow or get it done this week. And he refused. Or else. And he didn't get it done. That's different. Right. This is like Italian opera. This really took a twist.

Yeah. So now here's your. Because of that paper. here's your mentor. Yeah. The guy that like... Close with my father. Close with me.

Father figure type to me. Yeah. Showed you the game in many ways. Yeah. Yeah. Like you learn loan sharking and you saw... I didn't learn it from him, but he was a mentor.

You soaked it up. Yeah. Like that brought me around at first. I always like, like idolized him as a young kid. Yeah. You know, he was a flashy, flashy dresser. Just a, you know, charismatic guy,

smoke cigars. Yeah. I was like him. We'll go out and drink and smoke cigars. I don't want to see him die. I did not want to see that going on 20 years. I know my whole life. It was like my own.

Right. More than 20 years. My whole life. Okay. So what happens? So I get called down to New York by Artie. And by the way, the form and John Bologna knows about all this too. Yeah.

And he's not a made guy. Just so you know. And as this is going on, I tell Artie, as this is transpiring, you know, Artie, we, three people, you know, we missed this part, but three different factions told us that John's no good. And I said, if you send him up to our area, you'll never see him again. You know, because I had a whole dog. Wow. I had other spots I could kill him, right?

Yeah. And I already said, that's good to know. And after I said that, he never came up alone to our area. It was always meeting him in New Haven, meeting him in Albany, meeting him in another spot, or coming up with a bunch of, you know, guys. And he didn't even do that much. that like it like that much. Why do you think already just like protected this nobody job?

And that comes along later. Okay. In that store because that's what you start thinking is, is already in cahoots with him. Yeah. Telling, knowing that he's an informant like a whitey bulger. Like a Greg Scarpo with Carmen Persico. I believe Carmen Persico knew Scarpa was an informant.

Yeah. That's what these guys do. And you know, you can't blame them because that's how you, you know, you, you're an organization needs power. you get power by having, you know, government help somehow, some way. Yeah. And information. Information.

You know, like Guidy Bulger was getting told, there's a guy that's an informant. He killed him. That must have happened a half a dozen times. There's a bug in your car. He didn't talk in his car. There was a bug in your office in the garage. He didn't go there no more. So it's like, you know, there's, that's a huge advantage when you have something like that.

So I'm thinking you're 100% right. I thought that, though, later. When I get indicted in 2010 for the actual big case, that's the penalty case. That's when I started thinking, Ardy knew all along, because it got confirmed that John was the rap. But anyways, I wanted to kill him.

I think Artie twice to kill him, and he refused to let me kill him. And this guy, John was the reason, him and Artie were the reason why everything went down. I don't think Bruno would end up getting killed. I don't think things would have transpired, the way they did. You know, I would have never went down to a new.

York and have to kill you know shoot a guy like that you know it's all because of already greed and a piece of shit that he had around him okay so how does it transpire how does so he gets me to come down there and he and i'm not supposed to know about this murder because when you murder if they're going to tell you to do something that's going to get you the rest of your life you don't want to tell anybody right you wanted if you're going to kill him with me you're going to tell me anthin we're going to go kill a guy yeah now it's only two of us so i'm not supposed to know about this they told felix about it. Felix is supposed to handle it. But I do know about it. And so does John Bologna know about it. Okay. So when I get down to New York already asked me if I know what's going on, I say no.

And he says, well, Bruno, we got to kill Bruno. And I said, okay. He says, I want you to help help with Felix get it done. He says, I don't want you to get really involved too directly. And I want you to try to make the body disappear. I said, okay. Now, I still didn't even take it as a like I'm going to really go kill Bruno. Again, I want to kill the Manzi kid. I don't want to kill Bruno. That's number one. Number two, officially, I never got told the order.

Felix did it officially, you know, got told that. And he's involved because they told him first. And I always had a way out because Bruno's just too hard to kill. He's always with someone. You know, we can't get him alone anywhere. you know got a gun on him you know well we can say that but we don't know that

you know that's not a reason why anyways if you get him somewhere and get him in the right spot who cares if he yeah so I had a way out if it got to and my heart wasn't in killing him I wasn't like all right guys what we're going to do we're going to get him over here we're going to do this way now you know like

I was trying to kill this mansy kid I wanted to kill him so it wasn't like that like I was planning him to get killed you know different ways so So I go back, one of my guys, Freddy, that was Freddy Gia's. He was in prison with this kid, bad kid. When I say bad, a gangster.

He was six foot one, two, three. He used to do 20 sets of 20 pull-ups. He was just sculpted. Like he was a, and he was, Freddie City's, you know, a good kid. They give him a label like he was a crackhead or a, you know, Because when they arrested this kid in Florida, they shot him by accident with one of those guns that they come in when they SWAT teams come in, whatever those AK-Fle. You know, no, real guns. Yeah, you know.

They shot it went right through him. So he had to wear a bag. So he went into court and he looked like a skinny racket. Right, right. But he wasn't. This kid was, I was in prison with guys that knew him. Blacks, Spanish. They said, this kid's no joke.

He's a, you know, like he had respect. He was a, he was. So Freddie had him and he ends up being the guy and he kills Bruno. Like we put up a plan. Freddie talks with him and he waits for Bruno. It just happened to be that there was a beef like a couple weeks before where this kid Frankie went into a bar that Bruno had us part of or a piece of and smashed it all up, beat up a guy with the bat and everything.

So the guy went to Bruno and Bruno was looking for this Frankie. So when Frankie we get word, Emilio gets word tells Freddie. Freddie tells Frankie that Bruno always plays. cards down our lady in Mount Carmel every Sunday night. Freddie tells him Bruno's there because Emilio phoned out. Frankie goes and post up and waits for him to come out. When Bruno comes out of the club, Frankie says, hey, Bruno, I heard you're looking for me. He shoots him with a 45 time. I think it was six times. Kills him. He's dead, you know, right away. Wow. And that's it. And Bruno's dead. Well, you didn't have to do it yourself at least. No. Okay. So you had little involvement with that.

Would you say? Yeah, I mean, I had a little participation. And Um, I had, if it wasn't, you know, I'm not saying I'm innocent from it. It wasn't for me because of my guys and my crew that were capable, you know, so I'm guilty of it. But if you want to know what was in my mind and my heart, it was not in my mind and my heart to kill him. Okay. You felt bad or? Yeah, I felt bad. I did.

And your dad? Had your dad? He was at my father's store that morning. He brought my father. He was, you know, they talked golf. They golfed together. He brought my father, I think it was a, or he bought a goat that day. I don't know if you're a baby goat.

I think he was going to go, he invited my father to come eat because he had a girlfriend that used to live like a minute, two minutes from my house and he was always over there. And my father lived two minutes from his house. So he was always inviting him over, coming over our houses. We were close with them. So, you know, I got an order. Even if I did pull the trigger, let's just say, I got an order from New York from the most notorious family there is in America to kill him. I would have to kill him no matter what.

I'm just telling you how it went down. I'm not telling you. I'm not telling you, but I got an order. And if Bruno got an order to kill me, he would have killed me. Is the hardest part, it seems like it would be really hard to know about a murder, especially of somebody who's close to your family and act like you don't know what happened to him. Well, that was the bad thing because we were, I was sitting next to Bruno for that whole month. We were at dinners together. You know, I was at the club with him. He was there. He was there. when that next night when we killed my brother-in-law he even told me one night at my

my father's store because he was always at my father's story he goes, you guys killed that kid, huh? I go, no, we didn't kill nobody. A kid took off with some girl. He goes, nah, he goes, it was raining that night. I know. You guys, you and the two kids there, you got rid of him. Smart. You could get nothing over

on it. Yeah, he knew, he was sharp. So what happens after this? Because this is what, 2004? 2003, November. So my brother got killed 0, 4th, 0, 0, 20 November 4th, 03. Bruno gets killed November 23rd, 03. Same month, crazy. Three weeks later, yeah.

Okay. So you're still on the street for another until 2010? No, then I get, I get indicted for a racketeering case two days later. They get me with 250,000 bail and a curfew. I had to be home 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. I had to be home. What was the indictment over? Racketting case. Okay.

In fact, Bruno was supposed to be on the indictment with me. State or federal? State racketeering. Okay. Most people don't know. The state of mass, we learn this from having other mass, wise guys on here.

They have an organized crime division. Not just mass. New York has it. Connecticut has it. You just don't see that out here. Maybe because there's not Italian. Well, it all started with,

but they have other task force. Right. Here there's more drugs. Sure. So I'm sure they got drug task force. Yeah, good point. That's all it is. Organized crime is in the East Coast.

Right. It's like you're going to have. So why wasn't in a federal indictment? Like what? So it just happened to be the feds and the state work with each other. Yeah. So the feds, the state does like a lot of work. And if it's a case where the feds come in and take over and it's on those lines,

maybe with certain charges or whatever, they'll come in. But at this case, it just happened to be they weren't working together. I got you. The feds were working, building a case against us as well. Right. In 01. So the feds go where they do an 18-month investigation. Then they renew that and they do another 18.

And then if they want to do it again, they renew it for 24 months. So it's like a five. five-year investigation. That's what they did, started in 01 with us, with Bruno and me. But they also did it in the state. They just keep going. Sometimes the investigation burns out and there's no indictment. But with me, Bruno got killed. Two days later, he got killed Sunday. I get arrested Tuesday. And I get bailed out 250. I'm on a curfew. And Thanksgiving was Thursday. And that was that whole week. And yeah, so I'm on bad. and I'm out and about

and things are back to normal. I'm going about with all my rackets, the numbers, the sports, the gambling, the Shilock Inn, the Joker poker is my legitimate business, and I'm trying to kill this kid over here, this mansy kid.

But you're out on bail for being indicted. I'm out of bail. And I got to be home at six. And I got to be home at six. And what were the crimes alleged in this indictment? The crimes are the same charges. There were nothing. Like I'm going to,

and I'm going to tell you that. Yeah, there was sports gambling, loan sharking, got it. Numbers. All the, crimes I just told you, that's what they were.

And those are nothing crimes. There was no violence. And I'm going to tell you this. So remember to remind you that because when I tell you all those crimes that I made millions of dollars off of each racket, me and my crew, millions of dollars businesses, sports gambling,

$10 million a month, numbers business, $80,000 a week, Shilock, million dollars on the street, marijuana business, multi, you know, 100,000 a week net profit business. All this, yeah, you just keep going on and on and on and on and on. No violence.

I got indicted for that case. I think there was eight of us. I'm the only one that went to prison. One other guy got, I think, seven months. No. I'm the only guy that went to prison. No, no, no. Yeah, I'm the only guy that went to prison on that case on that case

that stemmed from 03. Okay, how much time? I told you that. On that particular case, there might have been one other guy that got seven months at one point or one time, but on that particular case. So let's just say one case. Remember this. Hold up off that. So I get indicted.

Just forget about it. I said all that. So, 0-4, 03, I'm trying to do. I'm doing all the same stuff. I'm still wanting to kill that guy. And when I say when I want to kill him, I had one guy shoot us with him, AK-47, we shot his car. We had him shoot him downtown Springfield, filled this car and him with an AK-47. But he got lucky then.

We had him waiting in back of his restaurant with an AK-47. He never came out that night. We had plots for him because he was so paranoid he would walk to his restaurant to his house. He lived like a minute walk, but he would go, sneakly go there. We used to give this kid the nickname Kakazzo, because every time he was around and we talked about shooting or killing somebody, he'd have to go take a dump. So Kakazolt means shit your pants in Italian. So, but if you talk to him, you'll swear that John Gotti was reincarnated and he was like, you know, a gangster. Like, I did this in Italy and I'm this and I'm not and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So anyways, I'm still trying to kill him and I'm doing my shit. 05 comes I get indicted again by the feds. Okay, so you didn't do any time off the stand. No, I still got to, I'm bail for that. Okay. I didn't go report from him. And I got the best attorney in the area of Vinnie Bonjourney and I'm still fighting it. I get indicted, but if that's, I get bailed out for that.

Because that case stem from 01, all right? So they just kept going with it. And then finally in 2005 was ready to, you know, almost five years. It was like 2000 to 2005, I get indicted February. So now I got two indictments. That was the same thing, sports gambling, money laundering, loan shark, and things like that. So February, I get indicted again in April. Third case, this time by the state again.

This time they had a wiretack. in one of my guys is houses. And we used to do the work over there. Sports, gambling, numbers, all the work. We'd get together once a week. How much did we make? Blah, blah, blah. That was just, like, you know, one house that I would go to,

like, and do business and let us know that part. Right. So they had a listening device in the house. You know, I'm pulling. And I was like, what the fuck? I pull out of my street. And a good friend, the guy I told you that used to go to Mexico and deal with the cartel, my guy.

He died the day before. How? They thought I killed them. They found him in the river. Would like, you know, this guy was a multimillionaire with like $10,000 in cash on him. So they figure it was a mob hit. And they right away they thought it was me. But he was fly fishing and he had a heart attack.

Oh. And he found him in the river. Of all the ways to go. He died. And I get, I was going to go see his, because me and my wife were supposed to stand in for them. They were going to get married. And I was on his way to see his girlfriend. And as I'm going to see her, I pull out of my.

street and I see the state trooper on Mark Carr, this guy Thomas Murphy, he's always, he was after us, you know, he was the head guy for the state police organized crime task force. And I see him pull out at the end of my street after me. And I'm saying, what the fuck is this about? Sure enough, the lights go on. Sure enough, he pulls me over. He goes, hey, and he was, you know, he was a guy. He had his job to do. I had mine. He comes up to the car. He goes, yeah, he goes, yeah, he goes, I got another, yeah, I got a warrant out for you. I go, for what now, Murph? I go, what the fuck did I do now? It's like, you know, it's like this third time I'm in. Yeah, this again.

And he goes, you'll see when you get down to the station, you know, if you know, he goes, park your car over here so you don't get a towed and I got arrest you, you know. So he brings me down the station and it was four of us got arrested. And this time, same thing. There was a bug in the house. Licitist, and the device. And this time I get no bail. Right.

They're holding me with it. Because you already got two cases. I already got two cases and I got no bail. So I'm in jail about six months and they offer me a plea deal, meaning to cop out, you know, make guilt, you know, that's it. and because I got the best attorney that there is. And he's like, you want to go fight these cases one of the times. It's going to cost a lot of money, even though he took great care of me.

He goes, you know, you never know. He goes, I'll go to war with you. But they're offering a decent deal. I can try to get you a decent deal with, because they don't want to go to war with him either. He's the top-notch defense attorney. And there's no violence in none of these cases. So guess what I get? Nobody goes to prison two out of.

I got like 20-something co-defendants on all three cases. one guy went to prison, I think, for seven months. Another guy went for three years. The only reason the guy went for three years was my friend Louis Naileri. He was the guy that, he was one of my guys that would answer the phone. When they raided him and I went to arrest him, they found a gun in his truck. So he gets a three-year mandatory. But this is like bullshit.

Yeah, so guess what I got? I get three years to three and a half in the state. I get 29 months in the Fed's case concurrent. So I already got six months in so I said fuck it, I'll plead guilty so I plead guilty and I get three to three and a half

there's no violence on the case. Even with your sheet? I'm a multi-millionaire. Yeah, so yeah, but because there's no violence on these cases. Oh, so you don't have points like in the federal system with drugs? No, in the federal it was only for I never had a federal case prior to this.

I see. And not only that there was no, it was only for sports gambling, money laundering, no violence, no extortiones. You know, it was like... And so the feds can't use in sentencing? They gave me 29 months for a first time federal case. Can they use your state record in sentencing of the feds?

Well, they kind of did. They gave me 29 months. Like I said, there was no violence. That's still a lot of time for a first time federal case, no violence. Don't forget, there's no violence. There's no murders. There's no threats. There's no nothing.

There was no drugs. So I guess. get the 29 months with the feds. I get the three to three and a half. I got six months in and I take the the plea deal and I accept it and they let me and I start my sentence. I get the three to three and half. So you go to the feds to serve? No, I was in state. So what it is is while I'm doing my state time, the Fed time is going to run concurrent. If I finished, if I finished my time before, then I would have the feds would come and grab me. I got you. If I had more time to do it. But I overlapped it.

So, but now while I'm in prison doing my time, I get indicted again, this time for an extortion case. So I'm doing a three to three and a half. And I'm doing the, the 29 month concurrent with the feds, 2007, my father passes away. That took, I took that real bad. Yeah. A couple weeks, a month later, I get indicted for a extorting the vending business company, you know for the Joker pokers.

So this time I'm looking at, you know, another case. I'm not pleading guilty. I go to trial. Me, my two guys, Freddie and Ty, we go to trial. I got the good attorney. We get found not guilty. Wow. You guys are beating cases left or right.

Ty gets released immediately. Freddie is under indictment for the Bruno murder at this time. Okay. So he's got to go back and get remanded back to, our county prison because it's a state case. State arrested them for the Bruno murder. And I have to go back and finish up my time in the state. So we beat the case around the end of February, beginning of the end of February.

That's just in March. And I got out in June of 08. That's when I was released in June of 08. What had happened to your businesses while you were down? So my businesses were still thriving. Who was looking after him? So I had guys that were on the street. Like when I got arrested, it kind of like decimated a lot of my sports business and shit like that.

But still we had a good strong, shy. We had the numbers still going on. So I had guys running out. But at that time, Amelio Fusco comes out. I was making $100,000 a month while I was in prison from just my end, sometimes more if we had a good week on certain things. you know, but when you're not there and you're not on top of things the way you're supposed to and you're not, you know, but my wife didn't have to work. I did three to three and a half. She got, I got three kids. She didn't have to work. She went to a million and a half cash

during those three years. And she wasn't working and I'm in prison. Right. So that's pretty good, you know, like support. Most people lose at all or have no support. People turn their backs on you. Guys can't even with their wife working can't make it. I had three kids that she didn't have to work. And she went to a million and a half cash, which I yelled at her when I got home. She didn't sleep home the first night. She thought I was going to kill her. Well, you put her through a lot.

So, you know what? We're okay with that. She was at shootouts with me and this and that. Like they, you know, so. All right. So you're home in 08. A house and all that. So go ahead.

You think these bodies that you have are behind you. Well, I'm paranoid that I'm going to get indicted for the murder at some point. for some murders for something. That's what I think. Rightly so. Because I'm like the John Gotti of Connecticut and Mass. When I say that, I mean like the heat-wise, like the notoriety. The Bruno murder was like the most notorious murder.

You know, it goes up there like if it was like a Castellano hit. Right. Like outside of New York, the Bruno murder was nationwide news. It was like a notorious murder. And so like with that comes whoever was responsible gets the heat for that. And I was the boss. So they're accusing. me of it so i have 24-7 heat surveillance from you know they're bugging everywhere i go strip clubs

restaurants houses cars phones everywhere i went frequented 24-7 surveillance their monitor and they want you and i'm being in in newspapers right yeah they know i got multiple bodies like you're beating cases too yeah let's not forget like yeah and so they uh i'm in newspapers that's all they do is talk about me repute of my boss this not the other but they're doing um news stories on me right You know, they do all like, just like you see with that, they're doing it on locally with me, like Connecticut and Mass. So it's like I'm like this high, you know, like super star of the underworld in Connecticut Mass area, you know. So I have 24 severance surveillance. And I just think, you know, you know, I just did three years, three and a half years.

And you get out, you're a little shell shocked when you get out of prison. And at that time, you know, my wife went to a million and a half cash. I got to get my businesses all lined up. and you're just, you know, cold out of prison. It takes you a little time to adapt, you know, back to society, you know. And I'm doing that. And as time is going on, I'm getting more comfortable, you know, because I thought that they were going to indict me, you know, like, that's what they do.

As soon as you step out, put the cuffs on you. Yeah. The new case. So a year goes by, a year and a half goes by, everything is going good. And then finally, 2010, around February, about January, Christmas time, I get a call. I'm with a friend of mine and my cousin calls me from Florida and he says the guy with the beard. And by the way, when I got out of prison in O'Reilly, that piece of shit, John Bologna was trying to meet with me. And I say, hey, buddy, I'm not meeting with you.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, but he made it. I sent one of my friends to meet him and see, we'll see what this fucking jerk off wants. Because Artie was in prison doing five years at this time. Okay. What happened already? He got in a RICO case somewhere.

He was in Fort Dix. I see. So I sent my guy, he says, no, you tell you anything, he's got to come see me. It's important. I got a message from the boss, you know, and all this bullshit. So I, you know, and when I said 24-7 surveillance back in 03, 04 and all that, I used to have to do business like sneak out my back door, go through bushes, get picked up two streets over, and then start trying to go meet guys. Right. You know, and do, so never mind when you say like killing, that's the heat that it was on.

Right. From 03. Right. I had that type of heat. and now you're trying to kill somebody. So when you said that before, it was like, it's hard, that makes it even more harder.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, and then doing business and made it more harder. So, um, I get word in,

uh, 2000 and right around that time that, uh, this, a piece of shit John wanted to meet me. And so I go meet him. He's wired up. He's got the feds outside listening.

And he was, you know, he's like, hey, Juni kisses me all this shit and blah, blah, and he's like, and he brings up murder. I whisper in his ear.

I go, I'm not talking about none of that. Where you can't even hear me. Like, I kind of malt it. I said, you know, and, and we, I just fed him a bunch of bullshit. Now I start talking to him like, because Freddie's indicted for the murder of Al Bruno, but Frankie, remember I told you, he was the shooter? Frankie on the day he was supposed to go to trial for the murder of Al Bruno, he flipped. So he gives up Freddie.

He couldn't give me up, but he gives up Freddie. Yeah. So I start telling John talking to him like he's, He's got a wire on. He says, he didn't want to know what's going on with the kid Freddie.

I go, Freddy's innocent. I go, the guy that killed him, he had a beef. Remember I told you? He busted up the bar and he was looking for it.

I go, it was a personal beef with Bruno and Bruno was looking for him and the kid went and found him and said, hey, Bruno, he even said it because that was even, I don't know how that came out.

I don't know. But anyways, oh, yeah, there was a witness that was there with Bruno. And the kid came out and said, hey, Bruno, I heard you're looking for me. And the witness

told the police. you know, so, so it was a perfect, and that's what I told him, right, he had the wire on. And I go out of, Freddy's innocent. I was going to beat the case. And I said, you know, and then I got out of there.

So 2010, I get a call. I think I'm going to walk away. Now I'm getting confident. I'm getting cocky. A couple years have gone by. Nothing's happened. Yeah. It was like, I might, you know,

I might skate through this. And I was all done fucking around. With violence? With the dumb shit. Yeah. Like, when you go away, like I really loved my kids. My kids, my little daughters were two and three. Father and daughter bond, my son was like nine.

You know, I was married. I had a girlfriend that was like a true, true, true. Yeah, but she was like my, you know, she was right there for me. I want to be here talking to you if wasn't for her. Right. So you're just focusing on getting money. Yeah, when I went to prison, like your priorities get set right away. It's like you get locked up.

They put the cuffs on you when you go to prison. Your mind goes, my kids. I love them. My little babies. Who's going to take care of them? You know, that's your thoughts that are going through your mind, you know. Yes, it's fun in prison. You bust balls.

You work out. You read self-help books. You get knowledgeable. You read philosophy and all that bullshit. But everyone cries and whines. They want to get out of it. It's like, oh, guess what? I'm getting out next year.

Oh, guess what? 32 days. They're counting down. If it's so good in prison, why are they all crying and drying and dying to get out of it? Of course. You know what I'm saying? And if you really care about your kids and love them, that's the suffering part.

Yeah. Is the prison. Right. So you're done fucking around with violence. Yeah, so I'm done fucking around with violence in 08. I was like, I was really done fucking around with street shit. My goals were I had major, major, legitimate business. I had a $23 million real estate deal going on that was going to end up being $100 million.

You know what boxes, like a Costco, Walmart and everything out of Boston right on Revere. Wow. The price list was $23 million back in 2010. And that was my deal. And I was going to get 25% of it. to deal with after the boxes were created. It was nothing there. We're going to put like a Walmart.

You could put three boxes plus the store for like the gasoline, you know, station. And were you taking, was the plan to take the street money and converted into real estate money? I was, I was okay with money. Like everything was great. I didn't worry about money. Like I said, in my life, I made millions and millions and millions of dollars. I blew millions and millions of dollars. I was a degenerate gambler where if I had to pay everyone, I would have lost 10 million.

You know, I still blew over a couple million when it came to gambling that I did have to pay. And so I was done just risking. Right. I didn't like the fact that here's what happened. When I did all that shit, I didn't have my daughters yet. And I was like crazy and wild. I was separated from my wife for a while. I was like just living hard gangster life.

And so I was doing all that. And then I have daughters in 03 after I'm murdering people and all that shit. And when you have a daughter, father or daughter, but I had already done shit that could put me out, you know, and when you're doing all those crimes, like I said, all those crimes I did, only got three years. That's nothing. Five years, nothing.

Ten years, you'll do it. If I told you can make $20 million and you got to go to jail for four years, you're going to take that all day long. Any street guy would, right? So it's like, guys go to jail and they're bums, and they got to go to jail and they don't make no money. So I, I'm all done. I want to stick with, like, legitimate stuff.

New York, I'm not going down to speak with New York. You know, I'm getting to the point where and fuck Artie, like, if he calls me down there, I'm just going to do my best, not, you know, to avoid all that shit. You know, like, you know, and, and I wanted to focus on legitimate businesses,

like the trash business. The, I was getting involved in an exterminating business. The wholesale, the fish industry. We had the market down in New York, the Javits, you know, the fish market, with all that. And every real, the real estate, we had, I had a tire company. We're going to do nationwide tow truck tire, you know, for the tow trucks.

We had 13,000 companies, GE had 13,000 roadside assistance. We were going to do. So I was doing all legitimate major, you know, so that was the focus I was going to do. And I was sick of being away from my kids. Right. I get word in 2010 that John Bologna went in the witness protection program. My heart drops. I was like, what?

Like, he knows about. about murders. He knows about conspiracies and extortions. So when I heard that, I was shaking up as far as like, I thought when I was in a, this Italian club, I thought when I was going to walk out the door that there was going to be like 30 agents ready to pound on me. So I go right away to my lawyer and I tell him and he says, well, just let's see what happens, you know? Like, what did you, does he know anything? I go, yeah, I know some shit about me. So I was like, so anyways, like a week goes by or a few that week. And the feds go and see Freddie in prison. and they tell him, say, listen, they didn't go see him. They sent his lawyer. They went to see his lawyer. And they said, hey, this is what we got. We're going to hit him with an indictment for murder out of New York. We're going to give him a chance if he wants to cooperate, you know, things like that.

But he didn't. And he sent word to me of what was going on. He said, yeah, just be ready. They're going to be picking you up any day. You, Felix, Emilio, my brother, his brother, we're going to all get picked up. For the Al Brunner murder. Wow. So he sends me word.

So I prepare him. I'm preparing myself to go to prison. And I'm getting all my money situated where it's going to go to my wife and my family. I'm getting a word of people, where to drop it off. And I never forget. I'm sitting on my daughter's like five years old. My daughter, Sophia. And she used to think when she used to come visit me in prison from 05 to 08, I was at work.

And she was like, Dad, do you come home with us today? And anybody that tells you, like, I don't give a fuck how heartless you are or insane psychopath, Murdi War. Those are your kids. You love them. It tears you apart. It tears you apart. And she's on my lap and I'm trying to break.

I used to go walk with them at night, take walks, smoke a cigar and take them for walks. I used to bring them to school in the morning. My little grace used to hang around with me during the day, like when I used to go bounce around cigar shop, she was like a little gangster hanging around me, you know? And so my daughter said on my lap, I said, hey, Sophia, daddy might have to go back to that work again. And she said, Daddy, no, she hugged me so tight. And she was like for like 10 seconds.

And then she leans back, grabs me by my face. Now she's only five years old. And she said, Daddy, you're lying, right? And it broke my heart. And I said, yeah, Daddy's lying. And so I end up getting indicted. They finally come 5 o'clock in the morning and they arrest me. They bring me down to the FBI in Springfield.

The indictments out of New York City, Southern District. I go down to the FBI. From there, we go to the courthouse. The judge asks, what am I facing for me? maximum sentence, death penalty, death by lethal injection. This is in the feds. This is in the feds. Oh, wow.

I'm indicted out of New York, though, but I'm getting arraigned, not arraigned, I'm going in front of a magistrate in Springfield. That's unusual that being threatened with a death penalty in the feds. Yeah, it was death penalty case. What did they have on you? Like, who was, you know, they, you were loosely associated with this murder. You knew about the conspiracy. So who was talking?

Yeah, so now it comes to, um, they had everybody on me. So they had the shooter, Frankie. He was, yeah, he cooperated. That's how Freddie got indicted. Right. Right. So they have the shooter on Bruno. Ray Ruggiero, the guy that robbed Bruno, he's the captain.

He, we're down in New York one time, and he asked us, when are you going to get rid of this guy? Because Bruno was busting his balls up over the 250 still. Right. And John Bologna, he knows about the murder. And he wore the watch. You know, he's been wearing wires and shit like that. And Felix Rangese. He was the one that got told to commit to murder.

You know, I was told by the lawyer when he came to see me. Felix is going to cooperate. So you got four direct guys that were involved in the murder. Three of them made. No, Felix and Ray made. You got the shooter and you got John Bologna, who was, you know, the middleman orchestrate and everything involved with everything. Working for the feds for years.

And I don't, yeah, exactly. So it's like they got that. And plus they got, here's another thing what they got. They got a racketeering case. It's a racketeering murder case. So they also got extortions. They have other sports gambling, interstate commerce, because the thing is out of New York. Extortions.

I don't know if there was loan charges, but they got, so they got the RICO in there. So, you know, that's where you see. guys what our records get like 60 years. Right. They give you to 20 and then the enhancements when everything, they just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. When did you decide that it was game over when you were reading the paperwork? So I go, like I said, I was fighting from the case and I get John Mitchell out of John Mitchell. I get him, the attorney out of New York.

Right? And he's going to be my attorney when I go to New York. So I'm preparing everything to fight the case. And, you know, never, no idea went to my head to cooperate at this point. sick to death though that I'm you know I'm gonna have to fight a case like this because it's a case where you have to go to trial and win otherwise you're gonna get

they're gonna plead out to 20 years 25 years if that they're not even gonna give us a plea you know what I mean like that and um so I'm uh I'm going to uh get a rain they take me from Springfield to Rhode Island and that's where they're holding me until they're ready to ship me to New York

now Freddie is in Luglo's still, Springfield holding, where they're holding him. And I think they transferred him before me, but he was down in New York before me. And the Dighton was out of Manhattan, Manhattan Southern District. So I'm there and I'm going to fight the case. I got John Mitchell and, you know, I'm just like, I'm thinking about the case and I'm thinking like, you know, you always got that positive way of. about it like, you know, we can beat this case. You know, you got, I'm a positive guy and I'm always in life, positive, never complain.

You know, there's always a silver lining and everything. So, um, in, now I already know, so I find out Felix is going to cooperate from my lawyer, Vinnie Bonjourney. But John Mitchell comes and sees me. He comes and sees me and he's very close with the top bosses of the Genevice family that are, that are running the family. The real major. Love Artie. Yeah, like, yeah, like the bosses that put Artie there.

Right. So he comes and sees me. And he says the first things out of his mouth is New York is worried sick. And for what? That Artie flipped. That Artie's not in the system. He's not in the system, meaning he was in Fort Dix doing five years and he's no longer in the BOP locator. He can't locate him.

And he got indicted a week before me for this murder. He was number one on the indictment. Right. And I was number two. And this is 2010. Joe Messina already flipped. He was the boss of the Beninos. But bananas.

You had Sammy the Bull, who was an under boss of the Gambinos. You had Al Diarco, he was a boss. You know, you got Whitey Bulger, the boss of the Winter Hill gang. He was an informant, Scarpe. You hear all these horror stories. Right away on my head, I say, and this Artie was using John. And they were working together because I would only make sense. because he never let me kill him.

Right. And he protected him. And he's not in the system now. And now I'm number one on the list. I don't even, let's just say I wanted to cooperate. I'm thinking they're not even going to let me cooperate. If they got Artie. Right.

Who are you going to tell on? Exactly. I'm second on the indictment. I'm the main guy now. Yeah. They're going to let everyone pile up on me. Yeah. And that's a horrible feeling when you start thinking like that.

It's like this cock sucker puts this guy around him. He wouldn't let me kill him. The greedy guys between him and him destroyed our area. Yeah. You know, with issuing murder contracts and wanting me to kill my friends and all this other shit. And it was like, so that's when the thought of maybe making a deal comes into my mind. Okay. And that's when I first thought about it.

And it was like, it was like no way. I was like, you know, can I do that? I said, and then when you think about my kids and like, you have, no, you got to do that. You love your kids. You know, my family. these kids are, you know, they're in my life. So who were you supposed to get down on? Who were you supposed to flip on if the whole crew's already flipped on you?

The way it works, I got really lucky. So at this point, Artie wasn't in the system. Now, we don't know what happened. It come to find out, Artie ends up back in the system. When I get transferred down to New York, like a month later, I'm with the top guys down there now. And I didn't cooperate at this point. I'm thinking about it.

I looked into it through my lawyer. I didn't meet nobody. Yeah, but I didn't go to it. I was in Rhode Island. I'm looking in to see if I can cooperate or not. I'm reaching out to try to see if, like, even if it's an issue. Like you got already, they're going to be like, yeah, tell them no things. They're not letting people just cooperate and get out of a death penalty case or multi-murder murders case and a notorious gangster like me case.

They're not letting you walk out of that. And I'm thinking I'm dead no matter what, but I'm going to ask my lawyer if that's a possibility. But a month later, when I did go down there, Danny Leo finally says they found Artie and he's in Brooklyn. But at this point, it's too late because I already set the wheels in motion, you know, that already was in. And we don't know where he went at this point. We don't know if they, if he got out and proffered and tried to do something and they didn't take his deal. We don't know none of this. We don't know the, uh, the facts of where he was, listen, what would you be thinking if,

if a lawyer has to come up and see me, right? And tell me that, right? Don't you think already's got family? They know where he is, right? Why doesn't his family know where he is? Why doesn't the lawyers know where he is? Sure. They're his lawyers. Yeah.

Why are you coming up to me and telling me New York is worried sick? And I'm second on the indictment and you guys don't know where he is. I'm in prison. Like, how do you guys, like if the lawyers don't know and his family don't know, you're thinking he flipped, correct? Sure. All right. So that's what I'm thinking.

And so I set the wheels of motion by trying to reach out to see if that would be an option for me. if that is an option for me. And that's what I did. I reached out to the attorney for him to see if that was. And what do they say? He contacted the attorney and said, I might be willing to cooperate. The U.S. attorney now out of mass, though.

But don't forget, the indictment isn't out of mass. It's out of New York. So he contacted the, and what did the guy do when you asked him? There was silence on the phone. It was like he couldn't talk because he didn't believe it. Wow. But they said they would be willing to,

to hear what we had to say. It's called an attorney proffer. Yeah. You know, like, you know, they would be willing to say, you know, like, why would they want to sit down with me? Something like that. So then that's the next thing that we had to set up. Like, am I willing to? And at this whole time, I'm saying, can I do it?

Yes. Can I do it? No. And I'd be thinking like, well, you know what? I'm going to do this and fuck these guys and who gives a fuck? And I'm going back to my area and who gives a fuck? If I end up dead on the streets or not, I'm going. I love my kids and I'm doing it.

And then I'll be slaying down. I'll jump out of bed. I say, you fucking nut, you can't do this. You know, I'm just like going back and forth torment to myself. It's like, it's like a horrible position to be in. I don't want to be in this position, but, you know, I am in it. And I look back and I'm so happy I made a decision that I did. It was not a hard decision at all.

I mean, it was like a no-brainer type decision. But when you're like living that life and you really are like I was built like that, it's like the most hardest. It goes against your core. It's everything. It's ripping you up from your insides at out. But you just don't want to surrender. You just don't want to give up, give in. And so when I

start getting to terms with it, I'm saying, you know what? Fuck Artie and fuck John. And you know, fuck that. When I say fuck New York, fuck Artie. I could give a fuck less. And don't forget, this is the biggest, baddest family in the world. So when I'm saying fuck New York, it's like I'm putting my life in danger by

cooperating against this big, bad family, right? Okay. But I said, fuck them anyways. So what I want to do is I don't want to cooperate against my friends. You know, Freddie, Tye and Emilio, I don't want to have to go against the Massachusetts guys. And they were on the indictment with me, right? So that's the part that's going to bother me. That's the part that I don't want to have to do. So I'm trying to figure out a way where I'm going to get out. Now, don't forget, I don't have no deal yet. I don't even have the proffer thing yet with the government, you know, yet. So. I send my wife to come up and talk to me, and I tell her, she's the first person I tell like that. And she's on board with it. She's like, you have to do that. You know, it's like, fuck. And she was like saying even fuck my friends, Freddie tying them and all that.

You know, she was like, she hated them because, you know, I was always out with them getting in trouble or doing things. Sure. She didn't like none of my friends. So she was on board 100% with me cooperating. I said, well, here's what you got to do. Now this was my plan. I go, here's what you got to do to her with her.

her good friend was Nikki. That's Freddie and Ty's cousin. She's a girl. She's married to this kid who I'm trying to kill this family. That's how it's small, this is crazy, you know? So I said,

you're going to go home, tell Nikki to come up, bring Nikki up here to see me. And Nikki would get, now I know I'm going to have a three-hour visit with this girl, right? Because in Rhode Island, you could have a three-hour visit.

So I'm going to lay out to her. I've seen the evidence. I seen shit that, that they got against us. We're never getting out of prison. Because even if we got, luckily, beat the murder, we're going to get found guilty on racketeering. We're not beating the racketeering.

Oh, gosh. So we're going to get 60 years with our records. Right. Okay. So I'm telling her who the witnesses are against us. Guys in our area that we thought were stand-up guys that want to go around calling people rats. They were going to the grand juries and proffering themselves.

This one kid, the mob accountants, Babi's son-in-law, He has the same attorney. When I did finally cooperate, I got switched to another attorney out of Boston because Vinny didn't want to publicly represent me, but he was still advising me to cooperate. So he gets me this attorney out of Boston. This accountant gets the same attorney, you know? So they want to label other people as rats when they're the fucking rats. So you're doing all this, why? Because you're getting ready to take the crew, the Springfield crew down.

No, so now I'm trying to get the girl to come up and see me. their cousin, Freddie and Ty's cousin, to come up and see me. Because I want to explain to her, I want to tell her for three hours, look her in the eye, that I'm going to cooperate, and that I want her to go back and tell her cousins to cooperate with me. And I'm going to give her to talk like, fuck New York, because it's us going to be us against New York. It's going to be us against a big bad Genevievee's family in New York, right? But we're dangerous killers ourselves. So they have children.

I have children. We love our children. We have families. We're from mass. We make a deal with the government. And the reason I'm thinking we can make this deal is if Artie is a, say, an informant or say he's not in the system, but he's in the system.

If we can make a deal and we can get ourselves out of this, we come back to our area. No one's going to fuck around with us. I mean, you know, it's like, and then we, do legitimate business and we just carry on life and I and I know you know it's like and that was my plan for her to come up and visit me and tell her that for three hours and I feel like I could have convinced her to make sure to go back and tell her to tell them we're getting life I know it sucks I know it's not in our blood to do that I know this and I know that but this is what we have to do

so that's the plan and that's what I that's my plan and I want them to do it that week okay so that week, my lawyer, Vinnie, his father dies. So I'm going through this most crucial part of my life. I might be cooperating. I might. I didn't decide yet. But I'm, you know, I'm waiting to hear back from him if, what the U.S. attorney said. His father dies. He loves his father. So that delays everything for about 10 days because now he's got to bury his father. He's got to, you know, do all that type of shit. And, you know, Rhode Island where he's got to come, it's like about an hour ride, you know, to come visit me. So I had to wait for that. Then March 8th comes and the day that my father died three years earlier, I call up my girl.

And she's usually always happy, supportive. And I hear her go, hello. And I knew something was wrong. And so you got to wait for her to answer it. And I go, what's the matter? And she goes, your wife's on the other line. My wife tricked my girl because she found the number. I never called my girl from my phone.

But one time I did and it was three late. I just want to make her sure she got home all right. My wife found the number. She tricked her. She called her up and said, It went to voicemail. She got her name. And she says, oh, hi, is this so-and-so, yeah.

This is Anthony's cousin. I'm just letting you know that he's going to New York to get transferred. And so, yeah, so tell me about you and Anthony. You guys love each other. Where do you go? Where's he take you? Yeah, blah, blah, but half a while later. She goes, I'm not his cousin.

I'm his wife. And they're crying on the phone with each other. And it was like, so now I'm facing a death penalty case. I think I'm going to get, uh, cooperate. I'm thinking that. So that's like I want to blow my brains out, just the fact that I'm even thinking about it. And my lawyer's trying to get me back information

that am I even capable of getting a deal because of who I am. But his father dies. And then the day that my father dies three years earlier, my wife catches me with the girl. So now my wife has a nervous breakdown. She's not helping me no more. She's like, you fucking bastard, do you love her?

I go, listen, I go, fuck all that. I go, I need you to bring Nikki up here, right? Fuck you. I hope you die. fuck you. Then I call back, do you love her? Do you still love me? Do you? I want to still be with you. Are you still? I'm still coming with you. Then I call, fuck you. I hope you die. She's having an nervous breakdown. She's got to go see. There like, babe, I'm part of the Italian mafia. We have Gumade. What's another? That don't work. Listen, yeah, fuck that. I mean,

that might have been work old school, but you got a wife. She's going to kill you, right? They don't want to hear that. So now all this shit's going on and it's like the timing. of it all. Like I never got caught with another girl like that, you know, the timing of it all and all this and all that. And now she's not bringing up, Nikki. So now I got to figure another way where I can get a message to, and all this is public knowledge as far as that I reached out to them

because now I got to go through my uncle to get a message to Freddie and Ty and the other kid Emilio that this is what I want to do. Right. Because, you know, like nobody gives a fact that I cooperated when it comes down to it in my area, Connecticut, in the world. Nobody cares. Like they fact, they, they're probably saying, the only thing that where I get heat from is like the,

the three guys in my area that ended up half going to go to prison. Right. But here's the thing. I tip them off ahead of time, uh, of what I was going to do. And I'm not making an excuse for that, but they could have did what I did. Right. They got balls. So how did it resolve itself?

What were you, what was the plan when you got word to Nikki and Freddie and the crew? what was your plan to flip on New York? Yeah, to flip. Who were you going to give up in New York? So Arty was the top of the indictment. Right. So when I find out that he's back in the system, I haven't had a deal yet.

He's back in the system. But still, there's guys that made deals that they didn't take their deals and then they're back in the system. Right. You know, John Gotti Jr. proffered. They still didn't take it and he's back facing trials, four trials or whatever.

there's guys that proffer and they get caught lying. They don't take their deals. You see what I'm saying? So my plan was for us to cooperate, you know, and go back to our area and live the rest of our lives. Okay. So our families. Were there enough targets there? That's not a bad plan.

No, but I still don't get it. Like, what happened? Artie was the target. Right. And the defense said. We got lucky that in New York that the indictment was, I don't know. If the indictment was out of mass, we were dead. I don't, I wouldn't even have got a deal. Okay. The Frankie guy, he only had one murder. He was the shooter. He only had one murder and he was nothing on the streets. He didn't have no money, shit, no, no, they gave him 13 years after he cooperated because he got tried, he got his indictment in mass. So he had to get sentenced in mass. Right. He got 13 years. I got 10 times more shit than him. Okay. And I end up, all right. So we got lucky that the indictment came U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan. They're known for giving guys that cooperate great deals.

Sam at a Bull, 20 murders, five years. Guys that did way worse than me, three years. More murders, New York wise guys, three years. Another guy, you know, more murders, everything, four years, three years. You know, my friend Anthony. So you got word back that they were, the AUSA out of the Southern District was willing to let you guys make a deal if you were. No, no. So finally, I got word back that they're through an attorney proffer that they're,

willing to sit down with me. But that doesn't mean they're going to take it. I didn't get no official confirmation at this point. So I didn't sit down with them. I'm still in limbo. I go to New York now. They transfer me there and I go and get arraigned for the case. And I have no deal yet.

So I plead not guilty. And my lawyer's there representing me. But I haven't officially sat down with the government. And so now I go to Brooklyn first and then they send me to MCC, you know, Manhattan. And that's where I'm selling with Joe, the boss of the Gambinos, all the gangsters are there. I'm around the mall, all the heavyweights. Okay, so bring us home. How does this, how long does it take before you're finally able to sit down and then they accept your cooperation?

So now while I'm there, I'm in MCC, and that's when they finally pull me out of MCC. and I finally sit down with the government. They bring me to the U.S. Attorney's Office. They bring me to court. Then from court, this is like five o'clock in the morning. You get to the courthouse. You're there around eight, and they pull me up first thing in the morning, 8.39 o'clock to the U.S. attorney's office.

So this is the actual first time I'm sitting down with them. And there at this office is 15 people in the room. There's U.S. attorneys from Mass, U.S. federal agents from Mass, state troopers from Mass, Connecticut FBI, U.S. attorney from New York, New York FBI, and my lawyer that I got in the room with me. Right. So we sit down. And it took like, you know, this is what I'm facing. And it was like the most hardest. decision.

I almost didn't make it. There's a podcast that came out that the prosecutor on my case will tell you that he didn't think I was going to make the decision. Finally, he had to tell me, like, listen, because I kept kicking him out of the room. And I kept saying, I need to call,

you know, my wife, see if she's still on board. I'm calling my wife. Yes, I'm going to come with you. Fuck you. I hate you. Hope you die. Oh, man. I call up my girl. My girl was right on board with me. She's like, again, you've got to do this.

listen, you got little kids. She goes, you have to do this. My girl was like great supportive of me. I called up my uncle, my family. You know, you got to. You got to try to make a deal. And then I'm also calling people that owe me money. Hey, bring in the money.

They actually heard that and reprimanded me for that. But anyways, they come back in. So what are you going to do? And they tell me, this is how it works. You know, like we're not telling you, we're just going to see what you have to say. We're not giving you no deal. and this is how it works and they tell me how everything works

and I said, I don't think I can do it. I kick them out of the moment again. You have to tell them everything you've done they're telling me the rules how it works. Like I'm going to proffer with them and they can just say, yeah, we don't care about what you just said, see you later. Now they can't use what I say against me.

Okay, gotcha. But still, they don't, you know, they're just here to listen, you know, like to what I have to say. So what was your idea? Who were you going to try to give them? Well, here's the thing I didn't understand. why wasn't I indicted for the shooting in New York

if John Bologna is an informant? Right? Right? He's an informant. Yeah. Why he didn't know about it, right? He's already letting know about it. Yeah.

So I'm like thinking, why didn't he know about that? Why ain't that on? So I'm thinking, so yeah, I'm thinking like, I cooperate and my two, my guys cooperate with me, and we come back, we do a little bit of time. I'm thinking I'm going to get like three years. You know, they give these. They give great deals in the Southern District of Manhattan for mobsters.

So I think I'm going to get a super deal. These guys are going to call. I thought these guys were going to do it. I thought they were going to cooperate with me. I believe, and people can say he's full of shit that, you know, I believe if the cousin came and visited me, I would have convinced her to go tell them. Say, listen, I'm going to cooperate. They have to do it. You know, they're Greek anyways.

You know, they mean they're not, they're not, you know, like, whatever, they got balls, they're killers. They got, they're tough kids. They're bigger than me. there's tougher with their hands. Are you trying to say they didn't end up taking deals? Yeah, they didn't cooperate. They didn't cooperate. They didn't cooperate.

All right. So what happened to them? They're in jail for the rest of their lives. Wow. They took it to trial. They took it. They rolled the dice, you know, and they, you know, they maybe thought that they could beat it. Conspirators.

How could you beat the case? They already had four direct murders. And then when I flipped, that's five. I mean, did they think, like, what did they possibly? And then even if you thought that, why not take a deal for, I mean, if they They even got an offer 25 or 30 years. Right. But they didn't want to, you know, they just wanted to roll the dice.

Wow. And so they never, the cousin never came to see you. The cousin never came. My uncle went and gave the message. That's all public. The lawyer knows that he actually said it when Freddie on TV that Anthony reached out to them through a bat channel. He called it. And he said, yeah, you know, Errolada reached out to these guys and, you know, offered them, you know, to what, you know, a deal to do what he was doing.

And they didn't take it. Listen, they could have took the deal with me. What I did was, you know, I take it like the captain of a ship, the ship's going down, with or without me, with or without me, they're going to jail for life. The only difference is I'm not in jail in life with them. You know, with me or without me, the ship was sunk. Just like Sammy the bull with Godi, with or without Sammy the bull,

Godd he's getting life in prison. Right. You know, with all the tapes of his mouth and everything like that. I agree with that. With or without me, the only difference is I'm not in prison the rest of my life. I didn't hurt anything. The only thing is I jumped off the ship. I'm looking back right now.

Is that a hard decision? These guys could have been home with me. Go ask their kids if they wish they did what I did. Right. You know? Yeah, it seems like a no-brainer. For sure, especially for a guy like Arty. Because he's a rat.

So let's kick, because we're running out of time. Yeah, go ahead. What became, so who did you officially offer or proffer to the government that you could give information on? So my proffer, when I finally sat down and gave it to him, my first question to them was, so then finally they gave me an ultimatum, listen, are you going to do this or not? This is that we're not getting out of the room. And I said, all right, well, listen, and I got to be careful because John Bologna is their golden goose.

I said, listen, I know you guys love this guy, John Bologna. I know this, but that guy is the guy, the reason all this shit happened, all the murders and everything and everything that happened was because of your guy. I'm not bad-mouthed them because you got to be careful how you talk because they'll probably say, oh, you can't, like, you know, go against him. He's our guy and we're not going to do anything for you. I go, but if he's such your golden goose and I'm not bad malton him, I know you guys love him, he's this and that.

He's been in a form since the 90s, but how come I'm not indicted for the shooting in New York, the attempted murder? And they looked and they said, well, tell us about it. And that's how I decided ended up cooperating. And they didn't know nothing about it. And he never told him about that. And what happened was he wasn't going to spend one day in prison, but because of that, he ended up dying in prison.

he never got released. So he thought he was slick and at the end, he thought he was smarter than everybody. He thought he was McAvelli and he thought he was, you know, reading all these books, the Sun Tzu and all this and all this. And he thought he was smart at him. He ended up leaving that out.

And he ends up going to prison the rest of his life and dying. John. They ripped up his deal. Wow. Yeah. Okay, because he forgot to tell them about that. He didn't tell them. He just didn't tell them about your attempted murder.

Right. Wow. Okay. So who did you end up? cooperating against. I ended up cooperating. So Freddie, Ty and Emilio don't take the deal.

And Artie is still the number one guy. Right. So those four. Okay. So gotcha. All right. So did we, what was the deal with Artie?

Was he cooperating? Do we know? So that's the million dollar question. Right. Because why did the lawyer come up to me and tell me he's not in the system? And New York is worried sick. Where was he during that time period? Totally.

Right. So in my mind, I thought for sure, that was a horrible feeling when I got told that. So, I mean, you know, it's like, where was he? Like I said, did he attempt to and they moved him out and put him into like say, don't forget, he was at Fort Dix? Say they moved him out of Fort Dix.

Now you're in transit, let's say somewhere. You're out of the system. And they brought him to a county prison. He wouldn't be in the BOP locator and that's where he could have met and maybe did a proffer. Right. Right. Artie was such a bad boss anyways that even if like the 99, 0.99, 9, 9, 9, 10 million percent chance that he didn't get found guilty.

I think they would have killed him when he got out of prison. That's how bad he was. He fucked a lot of shit out. Greedy little fuck, you know, just brought this guy blown here around. Right. You know, all the shit that they caused in our area. Yeah, totally. So where is already now?

Dead. He died in prison? Yeah, he died in prison. Did they give him life for ordering the murder? He got life, yeah. Okay. Now, did you have to go to testify at trial? Yeah, I had to go to two trials and testify.

Wow. You know, I didn't want to have to go do that, especially against, I didn't care about Artie. I cared about my guys. You know, I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to see them go to prison. I wish they weren't in prison to this day. I would rather them, we kill each other, you know, than to have that. But listen, they didn't make the decision that I made.

So they have to live with that. I made the decision that I made and I can get my head blown off tomorrow. I have to live with that. So we all made our decisions. Did you get to walk or do they give you time? No, I got eight and a half years. Okay. Where did you serve? I started off the first year in Valhalla, like under my own name, with everything.

And then I ended up doing the last six and a half in Ferrin. And was it like a separate yard? Yeah. It's like a unit where, like in our unit, everybody in there were notorious something, gangster, killers. There's El Chapo's guys, the floor was dweens, you know, like Joe Messino was my celly. You had Kevin Roach on the big brand case where they killed 24 guys. You had corn fed chopping guys heads off from prison. Like every guy, Mexican guys that were killed thousands of guys and that cartels over there.

So it was a place like that. There was like 120 guys in the unit and everybody in there had multiple bodies, multiple, you know, but they had worked out a deal with the government. Right. So, and then you get out, what year? 2017. Okay, so did you, are you back? Did you go back to Springfield? I went the first day I got out.

I went directly back to Springfield Mass into the house that I grew up in as a child. Wow. And you're there to this day? I ended up buying the house in 2019. Yeah. And that's where I am to this day. And no protection? No protection.

No looking, I'm sure you're looking over your shoulder. I never looked over my shoulder once. I have the same routine all the time. I go to the same bar restaurants and I'm not being cocky. I'm not trying to act like a tough guy because I don't want None of that shit. It's just I don't look over my shoulder. I'm not.

I never was that type. Even when I was on the streets and they told me you got a murder hit out in you. I just, I'm not that type. After you guys went down, it sounds like the whole Springfield family just kind of disappeared. Yeah, it's dead. They ruined it. John Bloney and already ruined our whole area.

Like I said, with or without me, that ship was going down. There was a little, my old crew, a faction, to try to, you know, come about. But they're nothing like, you know, like they're without a leader. They needed someone like me. Like they had this guy rooster. They straightened him out to try to like bring our crew back. He had a bunch of bums around them.

You know, they weren't capable of, you know, guys are on drugs, you know, getting narcanned and just a pathetic bunch of guys. You know, the guy that they call the real gangster, he's not even a made guy. He's my friend. He's the most feared guy in our area. And he's not even a made guy. It wasn't nothing to do with the mob. Albert Calvinese. I mean, so it's like they destroyed the mob.

They destroyed our area is what they did. They decimated it. It's nothing like it was. It'll never be like it was. The mob is, you know, and I'm not saying there's no organized crime in our area. There's some sharp guys still making the money. Yeah. And, you know, still doing the old-time rackets because they were established and been there.

So they still are, you know, they got their little things. But as far as being a made guy with a boss and orders and everything, no, there's not that. Right. And the Genovese, like, they're so low-key now that they don't... The bosses. Yeah. They're not going to come after you. They're not doing nothing.

Well, and I'm not worried about them coming after you, but they're not doing anything. Like, the bosses aren't talking to nobody no more. They're worth hundreds of millions of dollars. They don't want nothing to do with nobody. And they're putting up these dummies as acting street bosses so that they don't have to even want, they don't want nothing to do with nothing. Did they care what happened to Artie? Did you hear about?

Like I said, I've heard nothing good about him from them. Even when I was in there, Danny, the bosses that I was in there with had nothing good to say about him. Wow. You know what they call him a cheap fuck for getting the lawyer that he got? He goes, he's got money. He hasn't he spent some money to his cheap fuck. And they're telling me this while we were locked up at MCC about him. Wow.

And that's a boss telling me of the Genevice family. Yeah. Just didn't. So there was no love lost and no real hatred directed towards you for helping put Artie away because he. I don't know personally what they want, what they think. I don't care. but I could care less about Artie. Wow.

What a story of like treachery and hustle and, you know, it's betrayal. It's wild, man. It's a real fucking gangster saga. Yeah, it was, yeah. So were you able to hold on to some of those businesses? So I had, like I said, some major businesses went everything. I lost everything when I went away in 2010. Did you have to give a lot of money away to the government?

I got $2 million forfeiture. Did you stay with your wife? So she ended up, you know, I stayed with my girl. My girl actually, you know, stay with me, you know, most of the time. And my wife, you know, she moved on, which I don't blame her. Right, right. So you're with your girl now? Kind of.

Yeah, that's all right. I won't pry anymore. Wow. So tell us, man, you got a book out now or coming out. Yep. So 2020, I wanted to tell the story of Connecticut and Western Mass, Central Mass. of not me, like our area, let the world know that, you know, it's not just Boston and New York and Philly in Chicago. Like we had a notorious area with legendary gangsters, Whitey Troppiano, Billy Grasso, Spigno Sanpavari,

legends that were at Appalachian meetings, Murder Inc., Whitey Troppiano, all that shit. So I wanted to let, Ann, our story of how what happened, like the true story of what happened, and I'm a big part of that. Your crew, I mean, that's a legendary story. You were a real millionaire money makers. is a multimillioner without the mob. I didn't need them. But the book is called South End Syndicate. The guy named Joe Bradley wrote it. He wrote six books, all fiction before.

He's a good writer. He's written the book. I haven't read it. I just don't read it. I can't read it. It's about me. And I just can't read it. Well, it's about me.

I read one chapter and it was great. And I know the book is going to be great. I gave it to a couple of people and they loved it. So I'm sure people are going to love this book and get a good understanding about what is, what is going on with it. It's called South End Cinnity. It's coming out September 17th, I believe. And where can they get it? It's on pre-order right now on Amazon.

And there's a big publishing company that's involved with all this. And he is a great writer. And I'm sure, you know, like this is going to be a success. But that's the main reason. What's that? Yeah, you can put an order. So if you just go to Amazon when you're watching this episode, go get South End Syndicate. You can pre-order it.

And then it releases on September 17th. Correct. Yeah. Okay. And then do you have socials, a podcast, anything like that? I have my Instagram that I use mostly in Facebook, Anthony underscore Bingy, B-I-N-G-Y, underscore Aerolda my name. So it's my name, really, if they punch it in.

I'm on Instagram, Facebook. Yeah. I have a mafia channel that I was starting only because I wanted to, you know, go, you know, like I was going back down to where Bruno got killed. I was doing a podcast. It was called Money, Mayhem, and the Mafia. And Money Mayhem and the Mafia. It was four episodes.

That was bad quality, bad, you know, none of this good shit. And, you know, it was like, there's a lot of work involved. Takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work. And I still want to get things rolling with that. But I just need, you know, like, you know, it's like, that's not my thing. I don't need to. I'm in real estate.

I'm doing real estate deals. I'm getting a discord going where I'm going to teach people real estate. Awesome. Wholesaling. And I'm actually going to go partner with them. if they, in the flipping process, teach them and everything. So I'm in the process of getting that going.

So I'm not hungry enough to go to this. This is fucking work. You gotta want it. You gotta want this is what we do. This is like people think it's like, you know, so I'm gonna start a podcast. You know,

yeah, they all start one and it's like, you know, so anyways, I got four, but I do my pick up that channel where I left off with that and do something like along the lines of a Patreon, you know,

and just do a show a week and, and, you know, and I'm in talks with maybe doing something like that. Okay, So we'll see what happens with that. But absolutely, I mean, the book is a must read, in my opinion. Southside Syndicate, that's as a piece of mafia history, man. And modern mafia history.

It is. And, you know, I think I put us on the map, meaning Western Mass, Connecticut. Yeah. You know, by my era of living that life. I think I put us, not that I'm taking credit for that, but these guys were notorious gangsters. And I think me killing Bruno and most, you know, being part of that and becoming boss. and everything. I think I'm a big part of that notoriety that we're getting now. Absolutely. I think if Bruno doesn't get killed like that, you don't hear much about our area.

Sure. And I think you're the last generation of gangsters that moved like that, you know, like organized crime. Especially in my area. Well, because they're not, they never killed anyone other than, you know, my guys and my crew, you know, and things like that. I have dangerous guys that are out there that still are out there that are murderers that never went to prison. Yeah, you know, like that were badass dudes that were, you know, all my money. Nobody got hurt in my area from me. Like you said, those four guys that were directly on the case. But I did business with hundreds of guys from this. You heard my crime of story.

It started in the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody went to prison. Yeah. None of my guys went to prison for the marijuana. None of my guys went to prison for all the sports and gambling and numbers and loan shark and in violence and distortions.

You know what I'm saying? So nobody got hurt back there. Right. And I don't think anybody would give a fuck if, like, If those guys made the same choice I did, I think you want to hear people about this. Yeah, I agree, man. Wow. Killer, killer episode.

Thank you for sharing it. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Thanks, brother. You too, man. Yeah, thanks. So, yeah, go get that book. I certainly am. Anthony, thanks again. And I hope you enjoyed your time in LA.

Thank you, too. All right, guys. Take care.