The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Inside The Dark Web Credit Card Scam Making Millions Every Month

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

Matthew Handy lived through 20 years of addiction, crime, prison, paranoia, and survival before finally turning his life around. In this episode, Matt sits down to tell the wild story of how his life spiraled from early drug use in San Diego to heroin addiction, meth dealing, organized retail theft, credit card fraud, extortion, bank robbery, and cartel-adjacent chaos on both sides of the border. Matt opens up about childhood trauma, prison, the criminal mindset, life in San Bernardino, the explosion of credit card fraud, smuggling drugs from Tijuana, and the moment a bank robbery finally forced him to choose between spending decades behind bars or changing his life. Today, Matt is in recovery, runs the podcast My Last Relapse, and works in addiction treatment helping others escape the same cycle that nearly destroyed him. Go Support Matt! YouTube: @MyLastRelapse Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/matt.handy.17/ Rehab: https://www.harmonygrovebh.com/ Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Intro: Credit Card Fraud, Addiction & Crime 06:58 Growing Up in 1990s San Diego 13:39 Planning a Bank Robbery 18:10 Extorting Doctors & Wealthy Clients 24:14 Childhood Trauma and Early Criminality 29:56 Robberies, Drugs & Firestorm Burglaries 35:20 Prison Life and Using Behind Bars 37:42 The Baby Product Theft Scheme 43:17 Building a Nationwide Retail Theft Operation 49:27 Paranoia, Silent Tape & High-Level Shoplifting 55:22 Prison Didn’t Scare Him Straight 1:03:44 Getting Out, Relapsing & Manipulating Family 1:09:11 Back With His Uncle and Trap House Life 1:13:18 Selling Meth and Joining a Gang Circle 1:19:03 Police Surveillance and Controlled Buys 1:24:03 Major Task Force Bust 1:29:18 Addiction, Choice & Facing Serious Time 1:32:59 Moving to San Bernardino 1:37:04 The Amazon Warehouse Scam 1:42:55 Credit Card Fraud Begins 1:49:31 Running Teams and Moving Merchandise 1:56:33 Paranoia Ends the Fraud Ring 2:00:03 Returning to San Diego and Trying to Get Clean 2:04:02 Relapse, Energy Drink Theft & Street Hustles 2:09:43 Meeting His Future Wife 2:15:03 Doctors, Escorts & Blackmail 2:18:07 COVID, Fentanyl and Crime in San Diego 2:22:19 Tijuana Drug Houses and Border Runs 2:27:37 Heroin, Fentanyl and Meth Markets 2:34:31 Xanax Blackouts and Cartel Money 2:39:32 Robbing a Bank to Get Her Attention 2:44:48 Arrest, FBI Questioning & Bomb Threat Investigation 2:50:21 Delancey Street and Avoiding Decades in Prison 2:57:58 Recovery, Relapse and Building a New Life 3:00:24 Where to Find Matthew Handy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everything that you could ever need or want to forge and make and press credit cards, we have access to all of it. I could press like 12 cards in a couple hours. And I'm smoking meth, and I'm slamming heroin, and I'm not sleeping for three days at a time. So we would test the card to make sure it was good. So every card that we sent with somebody, we knew it worked. I never thought that it would go on as long or that it become as big or that I would ever get caught. That's just not what you think.

Credit card fraud in the United States is a $14 billion a year business. In fact, American consumers account for nearly half of all credit card fraud loss in the world. My guest today was part of a massive fraud ring that charged millions of dollars to the credit cards of stolen identities purchased from the dark web. Matthew Handy is a former drug addict who spent 20 years in the throes of crippling drug addiction and funded his lifestyle through drug trafficking, extortion, bank robbery, organized retail theft, and yes, large-scale credit card fraud. These stories are insane. Make sure to check out Matt's YouTube channel and reach out to him if you're struggling with addiction and need help getting clean.

And of course, hit that subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. Ladies and gentlemen, the wildlife of Matthew Handy right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. It's not risk avoidant, but it's definitely like how the fuck am I? going to get out of this. What was your drug? Well, of choice. Heroin was like the biggest problem for the longest. Heroin's awesome drug. Have you done it? No. I would never, I don't want to ruin my life. Yeah. But it's one of those things as you say, it's not like Coke where it's a psychological thing. It's a physical, you're going to be sick in about five hours. I got to figure out how to get some money. Fascinating as fuck. Yeah. My last arrest, I was dirty for heroin, meth, weed, Xanax,

PCP, Coke, but because I was smoking crack on the weekends for fun and fentanyl. So it was like. It was the garden. It was like a subway sandwich. Just put it all in. But that was like daily because like that's just what it evolved into. How did crack complement heroin? So I started smoking crack when I was 13. So I just had a lot of fun doing it. Everybody else hated it because I would like really get all fucking whacked out. But I fucking had a lot of fun. And also heroin like overpowers basically everything. Well, I've heard from heroin addicts and heroin dealers that the junkies would use Coke as a way to just like chill out. Yeah. It does this though. So like back in the day in

LA when you bought two balloons a heroin you get a balloon of coke for free so it'd be like a nickel of coke for your shot right where were you copying in LA so I had I was in San Diego but I have Skid Row stories I wasn't I wasn't really copying it was just there was the guy in the tent next to me had heroin oh so you were living down there I would go up there and like hang out for a while, you know, but like my, all of it happened in San Diego. Hmm. I just have like, ran up, like, I lived in San Bernardino for like three years and like, I just traveled all over the place.

Actually, really what it was is I would get like so paranoid just about the crimes that I was committed that I would like relocate and then commit a shitload of crimes and then relocate and then commit a shitload of crimes and relocate. Yeah. But I think the worst paranoia was from like the credit card scams. Mm-hmm. Because I was in San Bernard. Do you know San Bernardino?

Yeah, I know it's reputation. Okay, so I was... Beautiful area. Most beautiful city in Southern California. Actually, it is really actually... So that was a 1971 all-American city. Yeah. It was very industrial back then and had a lot of money coming through there.

And it's like the gateway to the deserts too. Like, whether you're going from San Diego or L.A. Or like, you can even come down from the mountains. like you get out to the Mahavi desert that way. So there's like a lot of traffic through there, but dude, it's the fucking wild west now. Everybody's smoking meth and everybody's strapped. And everybody's committing crimes.

And there's like, not everybody, right? But I mean, for the story's sake, it's everybody. It seems like the outskirts, these ancillary cities outside the big cities are the big meth towns. For sure. And fentanyl is concentrated in the open-air drug markets within the city. Mm-hmm, right? Mm-hmm. Well, also, so, like, meth really biker dope, right?

Like, it was all being made in the desert and then being brought into the cities. So it would, like, trickle its way in. Right. But San Bernardino specifically, like, Hell's Angels, Vago's. There's Mongols, like, just east, I mean, west of it. Like, the bikers are all right there, and they want to control that because that's how you get north. Right. And now the cartels have their lieutenants on this side that are set up.

So now those are big distribution hubs like in California, you know, San Bernardino, those little places, Fontana. Yeah, even Victorville, dude. Victorville's like a big spot now. It's like, and so, but we would go into these houses and there'd be like five generations of families, right? Like it'd be a great-grandson, the grandson, the daughter, the mom, and the grandma, right? Like literally five generations of people living in this 100-year-old house. right that has been in the family for 80 years and there's like people living in sheds in the back

but dude there's like literally there's like dude it's got to be decades worth of clothes on the floor and trash and they all had packs of chihuahuas in them shitting all over the place and dude they're all uh just getting high and like but they're all strapped they're all committing crimes like

every fifth or six house, there's just like shitload of stolen cars in front of them. And the, dude, the cops are just like, half the cities, like, shut down and abandoned. There's, like, political scandals all the time. Like, it's just insane. Yeah. So you go in there to get high with them or?

Yeah, I mean, we'd, we'd, yes and no. It'd be like, we got to bring credit cards over there. Like, the guy that I was living with, he was, like, a 45-year-old from Westside Verdu. And so he was this is where he grew up like he knows everybody, right? And so they're either buying drugs selling drugs or like scamming in some way shape or form or they were just gang members and I mean that's the whole city If you aren't like in politics, you're involved in something somehow. Okay, so you're smoking crack at 13. You're from San Diego Yeah, tell us the whole story. So I mean it's a really long story of course

I don't know how, all right. So I'm a product of the 90s, right? And I was born in 89, I was raised in the 90s in San Diego when the border wars and the gang gang bang was like at its peak. Just dude, the area that I was in, the time that I was born in, and then the people that I was born to massively influenced. Like, think about it, right? That is who we become. It's the time, the place, and the people. And, dude, I was just, I was just.

blessed to be born at that time in that place. Definitely. Dude, I loved it. But I had like a seven year, seven years, in my first grade class, there was like a kid that we called Bud

because that was his gang name and he was smoking weed already. And like all of us were getting our asses beat. Like, dude, the things that qualified as like discipline at the time would literally put people in prison today. Like you can't do that shit to your kids anymore. But,

I mean, it is what it is, right? And I never knew. Like, we don't know anything. better until we grow up and now like spanking your kids illegal except for in Texas it's still legal did you know that hmm I interviewed a judge a CPS court judge and I was like

why do you know when it's abuse she's like you just know when you see it you there's also this law in Texas that we we learned about from like criminology classes in when I was at college and I don't know if it's still on the books but if you walk in on your wife in your own house cheating on you, you have to kill them, but you have to kill them both. Yeah. And that's an insanity plea, and it's an old crime of passion. Right, it's an old Western

law, but you've got to kill them both. You smoke one, you've got to make sure the other one's gone too. I hope it's still on the... I don't think of my wife would ever cheat on. How's your marriage? Yeah. Well, you know, that's the thing. We'll get to there, but like, a marriage like mine gives up all like the

Disney fairy tale shit. Because she literally like seen me shit on walls and be like violently ill okay so yeah your wife was your girlfriend when you were all strung out and homeless and extorting doctors and like just doing crazy because she was a prostitute for 10 years and that's how you guys met no we met at the welfare office trying to get on medi-cal to get our prescriptions paid for because she was getting all these prescriptions from doctors and i was on sub i was on a methadone paying cash for it and the methadone was like If you get on Medi-Cal, they'll pay you every cent back that you paid. I was like, got to do that.

So I met her, yeah. I mean, I just, we ran into each other. And that's a funny story. Love the first hit. Yeah. Yeah. Well. So how long after, so you're smoking crack at 13, how long does it take to move up to opioids?

Three years later. I was using pills at 16. And then so right before I turn 16, I'm using pills. This is like when literally, oxycontin was going from OCs to O.P. They like changed the formula so you couldn't smoke it. And so three weeks after I started smoking oxies, you couldn't smoke them anymore. And so my guy was like, well, try this. And I was slamming heroin. It was black tar? And that's not very powerful, I've heard compared to like the beige or the China white, obviously.

Okay, honestly, I've never tried China white, but like I've had beige dope before. And maybe it's just a preference thing, but I always preferred like Mexican tar. Okay. Yeah. Now there's a big phenomena where junkies from San Diego go down to TJ, the Red Light District during the day, like every morning they'll go down there because

they got stronger shit and it's cheaper. Yeah. So it's wild. You go, we went filmed down there a couple of years ago and it's tons of Americans. Looks like downtown San Diego. Everybody's just copping. Did you ever do that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and actually my wife, got caught with four ounces of heroin at the border and she always blames me for it and I was like dude

you've done this enough like you should have put it in you like why the fuck did you think you could walk across the border with it in your underwear well I mean that's what a lot because it's that's what people do yeah but four ounces is a crazy amount to get caught with did she do time for it so she she she We bailed her out, and, you know, we went on the run. And this was during COVID, dude. So, like, nobody was really pressing up on us. And we were crossing the border. And, I mean, it got wild, dude.

Like, my mental health started slipping. And I couldn't, I can't. I wasn't making sane decisions anyway before all this shit happened. But it got, like, really, really crazy. And she, uh, bailed out, we were on the run. I was on the run for a bunch of shit, and then she got pregnant.

So this is how I end up robbing the bank, actually. It's her fault. Is that she broke up with me. She finds out on Thanksgiving that she's pregnant. And the next day she tells me that she's pregnant, but she's also leaving me because I'm stealing from, like, I'm stealing money that belongs to the cartel from, like, all these random people.

and drugs and like breaking into houses and like just doing dumb shit carrying weapons around and like just one of our friends one of our buddies i don't know whatever he was like he uh his brother got killed and so it just turned into like this really crazy time and so when she got pregnant uh she broke up with me and i was trying to get her attention and i didn't know what to do other than like rob her friends. So I started robbing her friends and she was getting more mad. And about three years before this, I moved back down from San Bernardino and I hooked back up with like my people. And I skipped town originally because shit was just wild. Right. And so I come back and I meet up with a couple people and they're like, well, dude, we're not selling drugs anymore.

were like robbing banks. I was like, what? No way. They're like, yeah. Like, you know, like, they got a bunch of information. They got like handbooks and shit. And they were like, they found out that you can't legally deny somebody that's asking you for money.

Like a bank can't do it. It's federally insured. Because of liability and like all this, you can't endanger the lives of everybody in there for money. So you walk in. You can literally like no weapon or not, like anything. You just literally go in there and tell them give me the money and they'll give it to you. Wow.

Yeah. And so they were doing it a little crazier than just walking in there. And they were also like robbing armored trucks and doing crazy shit. Right. So when I'm like meet her and I'm telling her like, yeah, I think I'm going to do this with them. She's like, no, dude, we're extorting these doctors. Like, why would you ever do that? Like, yeah, you're right.

You're right. But I always like pocketed it as like something that I'm going to do in the future. How are you extorting doctors? So I'll get to that. I'll definitely get to that. But so my decision was, like, I'm going to rob a bank to get her attention. And so robbed the bank, got away with it. You just went in there and passed a note?

So I had a weapon on me. I did. I wrote a note. And I thought it was so smart, dude. Like, went in there with these, like, clear, do you ever go camping? So, you know, those, like, camping kits with the clear gloves? For some reason, they always come with clear gloves. like hard, clear gloves.

Anyway, I went and stole one of those, had clear gloves on. I was like, they're never going to know. The problem is the day before, I went inside and, like, got a deposit slip. And I wrote the note on the deposit slip. Anyway, the feds are really, really good at finding people when they want to. And so I went in there. I wrote the note. I was like, give me the money.

I want the fill drawer, not the, Not the drawer in front of you, right? I want the fill drawer. No funny money, no diapacks, no tracers. If you follow me or call the cops in 10 minutes, I'll come back and kill everybody. I have a bomb in my backpack. Right?

And so yeah, they, for sure. I walked in. Sincerely, very truly yours. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Might as well. I mean, seriously, might as well have like put my name and address on there, but so I like slap the note.

And it's during COVID. So they had already put the glass up. And so I just put the note up there and I thought it was so slick. I quoted an M&M song at him. And I was like, I'm here to make a withdrawal. But he like looks at it and then looks at me. And I'm like, read the note.

And he like looked at it again and he was like, oh shit. And he like went to reach under the thing. I was like, no, no, no. And I was in there for like 20 seconds, dude. I was like, no, no, no, read the note. I want the fill drawer. and he like very calmly turned around gave me the money

he was like dude it's it's really early we didn't bring the hundreds out so he gave me 20s 50s and ones no fives and ones and um dude I ran out of there he passed him under the under the glass yeah yeah and dude

I mean it was 8600 bucks is what I got it wasn't like some huge payday right but like but for you guys you're all strong out that's a sure but I mean like so I'll get into the extortion part is like when I met her, she had just come back from rehab from Washington. And Washington or Oregon, either way, up there somewhere. And she was on a shot so she couldn't use, right? But we like smoked weed and like, this is a funny story, actually.

I walked out in front of her and I was like, fuck, how am I going to like not feel like a creep right now? But it started raining while we were in there. So I like stopped at the curb like there's like an underhang like an overhang and she stopped and I was like hey do you smoke weed? She was like why you don't have any like fuck this girl already like attitude right I was like no I do but do you want to smoke so we meet We go smoke we get Taco Bell we fuck within like three hours and I moved in with her the next day Like within 24 hours meeting her and we just became like like best friends. dude who are like right or die type thing.

Like seriously, like as the story plays out, it becomes more apparent. But she just starts telling me her story and I'm telling her my story. And she's like, yeah, you know. And I'm like, what do you do? She's like, oh, I'm a caretaker. Like, you never take care of anybody.

It's like, oh, yeah, well, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whatever she said. And eventually it just came out. She was like, yeah, so I used to like be a prostitute. Like, okay, well, like, you're sorry. still are. She's like, no, no, I'm not sleeping with these dudes anymore, but like, this dude's a dentist and this dude's a doctor. This dude owns a cat plant, like a cat sales lot. This other dude's a lawyer and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, like, and they're still just paying you, but you're,

you don't see them anymore. It's like, yeah, you know, this guy drops pills and money off every morning and this guy, like, sends me money every day, and this guy pays my rent, that guy bought my car. And I'm like, okay, whatever. And then she's, you know, she's, you. Like, time goes on and she starts telling me the stories. And one of them, the doctor, he's an anesthesiologist, right? This dude got into like a really, like a really traumatic car accident, had TBI and had like a dent in his head. And like, I guess it like really changed him. His thing was he would hire prostitutes, get him dressed up in a nurse's outfit, bring him to the hospital, put him under and rape him at the hospital.

And she had done this. So I'm like, wait, is, are you serious? She's like, yeah. Like, in my head, I'm just like, oh, dude. Also, like, I just came back from San Bernardino where we were extorting an executive for Amazon. And like, so I was like, that was the mindset that I was in. It was like, okay, I could do this.

I know I can do this. I did this already. And so one thing led to another, and that's a whole other story. I guess I could tell it, like, if you want. But, like, the dentist, the dentist was an endodontist. He was an oral surgeon. and this dude was just like addicted to getting fucked over.

I swear, like, um, the first day I met him, he gave me $7,000 in cash, and then would send us money every day. This dude would get us apartments. I'd get us kicked out. Crash cars. He'd buy a new one. Like, over like a three-year period, he probably got us. Like, he personally probably got us, like, I fucked this dude's credit over.

Like, in between buying a new car, he would rent us cars. He was getting sued for rental cars that, He just destroyed. Like, it was so bad. So are you extorting him or is he just addicted to being a sugar daddy? So it's for him it was both, right? Because we knew his wife. Like, oh, I see.

She's blackmailing him. Yeah, and it's like, if you stop effectively, your life is going to be over, right? And also, we'll report you to the medical board. Plus all these prescriptions that you're writing us. Like, dude, it's not going to be good. Like, you better keep doing this. the anesthesiologist, he had medical grade fentanyl. This is before fentanyl hit the streets, right?

And he's doing this with all these girls. We then found out that one of the girls was 15. Oh, dude, I was like, oh, this couldn't get any better for us, dude. It just so happened that before I met her, I was hanging Christmas lights for this company. And I hung Christmas lights at his house and saw, like, the bill and some. stuff like this. And so when she gave me the name and the area that he lived in, I was like, oh my God, I know where this dude lives. So went to the house, wrote a letter like, hey, this is so-and-so. I need you get a hold of me. I need to talk to you about some work that I did,

blah, whatever, get him to call and get him to meet us. And basically, dude, we had the dentist. So I had the dentist in the, get in the backseat, and I sat in the front seat and didn't say anything with a mask on. And he had no mask on. And he did all the talking and like, dude, assaulted him. And I told him like, you're going to say this and you're going to tell him this. And you're going to punch him and you're going to do all this shit. And I'm just going to sit here and point this thing at him. And when you're done, I'm going to get out.

And then you're going to get out and then we're going to leave. And basically it was like, we know what you're doing. Right. You don't have to stop. But you're going to pay us and you're going to pay us a lot of money. Or else, we're not just going to tell your wife. We're going to tell the news. we're going to tell the hospitals.

Like, you're going to go to prison for the rest of your life. What was he doing? He was giving out the medical grade fentanyl. No, he was bringing girls to the hospital. Like, dressing them up in a nurse's scrubs, bringing them into the room, putting them under,

and raping them at the hospital. Right? So, dude, we extorted this dude, and he got so sick of it. He, like, moved, changed his phone number, like, all the shit. And I was like, okay, whatever, we still got these dudes.

Well, he ended up, you can look this up. like he ended up getting busted for 17 counts of this. And this was after like we had sued him civilly. Like, just fuck this dude's life up, dude. And so, yeah, now he's in prison in California for this. So everything was a scheme to you. Like this is very typical of the addicts I used to meet in county jail and prison.

Everything was an opportunity. Yeah. So a lot of people, say that like I victimized these people right but like Matt was like well dude he was a cheater right so like that was a bad dude

and look what he was doing to these girls right and like on top of that like because of the car accident like he would tell these girls like oh yeah like I'm fucked up and I don't feel bad for any of this so I'm like okay well I don't feel bad for any of this either and so it's like yeah I guess everything was a scheme

but I never like victimized anybody that didn't deserve it. You know, like maybe I'm just justifying it, but it's like, I never like fucked anybody innocent over. Yeah, you're definitely rationalizing it. So start from the beginning. Yeah, you're not going to get anything by me. Start from how your addiction got worse and worse

and tell us about, you know, how the fraud and the criminality evolved. Yeah, so the criminality really started. So I was like I was sexually abused as a kid, right? And do you know like the psychology of that at all? Yeah. So it's the shattering of the personality to protect yourself in whatever situation you're in. And so, you know, the chameleon act and all that shit, like, that's a real thing.

And and so I tell people like, I was exhibiting addict behavior before I ever used drugs. Like just the deception and then like the masking and like people pleasing. and things like this, right? Criminality just added another layer of, like, addiction because a lot of people can get out of drugs. It's much harder to get out of the lifestyle, right? And so the criminality evolved, yes, but I was doing shit like stealing candy bars as a kid and shit like that.

So it started off young, but also, again, like, product of the 90s, influenced by my uncle gangbangers who were also drug addicts, one of them also sexually abused me. So there was like all of these layers. Also, I was raised Mormon. I'm the oldest of 10 kids. Wow. Right.

And imagine like being told that sexual immorality was going to put you in hell forever and being sexually abused and not being able to say anything. So now I'm like, I'm just fucked. Like I'm going to hell. Like, you know? Plus it was like a dude that did it.

Right? And I didn't get raped or anything. It wasn't anything like violent or like super like traumatic, right? But it like it still has the psychological long term traumatic effects. Like you can't delineate between the severities as a child. And also if you don't know what that next level is, then that's just the worst thing you've ever been through. Right?

But I had to keep it a secret. Now I'm going to hell. And so there's all these layers of like mental justifications. And then also like torment almost, right? Like imagine being a little kid thinking going to church every Sunday, going to church every Wednesday, and talking about like sexual immorality and how you're going to go to hell for it.

And then not understanding that I was victimized, right? Like that this, that wasn't my fault. I didn't do that, right? This is. And so I started using drugs at 13 on my, the birth of my youngest siblings, he was born on my birthday. right so on my 13th birthday i smoked weed for the first time right and within a month i smoked crack and i distinctly remember thinking like i smoked weed and i remember thinking like this is amazing

like what else are they lying to me about you know and also like i was having adult experiences as a kid and then interpreting my world through this lens as well. And so like disenchanted with my parents already, disenchanted with the church, disenchanted with just life that they wanted me to live. I didn't want to live it. Also, I didn't feel like I was worthy at that point to like do what it was that they wanted me to do. And I was moving up in the church and like getting greater responsibilities and like getting the priesthood and like baptizing kids and like doing things that according to their doctrine and like holds weight.

And if you do this, not being worthy, it just, you're going to a deeper level of hell now, right? And so 16, I get expelled from school, right? And criminality started before that. We were breaking into houses for fun. And like, there was this thing that we did to support our habit, right? I'm 16. I'm kicked out of school.

I'm not working. I have no responsibility. I have no discipline. I don't respect anybody. I'm a punk-ass fucking, it's the mid-2000s, right? And this was like the world was starting to change. For me, at least I felt like that's how it was. And as a kid, like you go through these eras of like change, right?

These seasons of change. But the world was actually changing around us. Smartphones were coming out. Social media became a thing. The internet was evolving. We had access to information. I was, we were definitely you, but I was the last generation of kids that went through high school without a cell phone.

And that meant that I had to call the house and pray to God that the girl's dad didn't answer or mom. Because otherwise it was a thousand questions. And I had to like navigate the gatekeepers in order to like get access to this girl that I really, I'm just trying to talk on the phone. You know, and it's like the world was changing because we could see that like, oh, that wasn't going to be a thing. Right.

And you could see it today. It's like kids are sending nudes to each other. before they ever hear each other's voice, before they ever see each other. And like, when we were kids, that was not a thing. Like, we were still talking chicks and, like, telling them we loved them and shit to get them to let us fuck, right?

So, I mean, that's what it was. Oh, yeah, that just when I was a kid. I don't do that now. Shit. Go ahead. You live, and then you live a little more. Sure. Right? So, I mean, my criminality really started.

We did this thing where we called it, It was beaners on bikes. Because in San Diego, all these illegals come across the border and they're riding bikes and they don't have bank accounts and they almost always have drugs. And so at four in the morning, the streets are like flooded with all these illegals. And we would like find one that's riding a bike and we'd hit them with a car, get out, jump them and rob them. And we called it bobbing. And so we were doing that like kind of little shit, you know. And then there's like, do you remember the firestorms of 2006?

Yeah. So I was living in North County. And like, dude, North County was burning. Like, Oceanside to Fallbrook, down to Rancho Bernardo, out to, like, Ramona. Do you know these places? Yes. Okay. All that shit was on fire.

And I was in San Marco. So mandatory evacuations. And we're going into houses and, like, cutting the copper out of the houses and, like, stealing their cars. and like just... Do you have a crew? No, I mean, it wasn't a crew. This was like my friend group that we were just trying to figure out

how we were going to pay for drugs. And it's Oxy's now. Yeah, at no, well, at this time, it was like Coke, Oxy's weed. You were like breaking into our dealer's houses and shit. And like, Coke, Oxies, weed, a lot of alcohol.

I'm Vietnamese, Portuguese, and a bunch of other shit. So like, the Vietnamese side of me is like super, super allergic to alcohol. Like when I drink, I get the craziest allergic reaction, like a histamine reaction where I get swollen and red and itchy. And I can go from like stone cold sober to passed out drunk with like a tallboy. I just, I don't do well with alcohol. And so I've always believed that like, I mean, it's logical, right?

That like my inability to drink with everybody else really pushed my drug addiction faster than a lot of other people's. And so, yeah, it was just, we were just trying to get hi, dude. And, like, we're already dependent on drugs. Like, the crazy part is I didn't know I was a drug addict till after my first prison term where I was slamming heroin behind 30 other people the whole time. And, like, begging my parents for money. And they would, like, send me the money for store,

but, like, trying to get other shit to, like, buy drugs. So you slam heroin in there inside. Oh, yeah. Where were you at? I was in Chino. CRC and Donovan. What were you down for? Four assaults with a deadly weapon.

You're robbing somebody or what? No, no, no. So I was 18, married with a kid on the way, in prison, and getting a divorce. Married to a T.J. Mexican. Nice. Yeah. And it was just the most toxic, most fucked up relationship. I swore off Mexicans.

Shocking. Yeah, very shocking. But, like, dude, smoking hot chick. Like, she was already living on her own at 17, like, working. And I destroyed her life pretty quick. And, yeah, so, no, we would fight all the time. We'd beat the shit out of each other all the time. And, like, it got to the point where she had chased me down the street with, like, a knife a bunch of times.

And, like, it was just fucked up, dude. We were like, it was bad. We were also kids who had no, there was one thing. There was like, in my mind, only one thing that was gonna, like, fix this marriage. I mean, fix this relationship, right? And I was like, a kid trying to make adult decisions.

So I was like, how am I gonna, like, keep her? I'm gonna marry her. That's what I'm gonna do. And then fucking, that didn't work. Surprise, surprise, right? But like, and so we were just always talking about like getting pregnant, save it. And, uh, dude, we would fight all the time. And she, uh, we knew a fight one day and she,

like goes to the neighbor's house and like gets a ride. She's going to go to her brother's house. Like, I know that's where she's going. Actually, she never even confirmed. I don't really even know where she was going. But she got in the car with like her. And keep in mind, like, these neighbors hate us. Um, for very good reasons. But, um, she gets in the car and the three girls get in the car with. So there's four. women in this car. And I chase them. And we're like under this bridge and they like slam on the brakes and I hit them. Boom. And when the cops show up there, they're like, he did it on purpose. And so they charged me with four assaults with a deadly weapon because the car was being used as a

deadly weapon. Wow. Yeah. That's wild. So you did a state bid for that. Yeah. Oh yeah. I did. I originally it was supposed to be three years with half. But me being the great criminal that I am, got caught with drugs in prison. And I got a another three with half that they ran consecutive. And so I ended up doing like a little bit more than three years. So what they get what they catch you with inside? Heroin. Were you like smuggling it or do, or were you just slamming it?

No, I mean, so both, right? Is that like when you're involved with, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, look at me. I'm five, five. Like, I'm not going to, I'm not doing this on my own. And I'm in California. Like, you're going to, you belong to somebody. Mm-hmm. Right?

And it's not the West. lots and shit where it's like, you're joining a gang, whether you like it or not. It's like, no, but you're going to stick with your people. And that's what I did, dude. Like, I rolled with Asians who roll with the blacks. And believe it or not, like, blacks do a lot of heroin. Right? And Asians typically don't, but like they were, right?

I mean, this is just what was going on. And we had, like, drugs coming in. And so, like, I would go sell it on the art, but it wasn't mine. Like, I'm not bringing this in. but I'm selling it to get it. Right. And then like running it to get it. And like, you know, and it's like,

and I've got a little bit of money. I would get like 200 bucks a month, which is a decent amount, right? So I could like buy some of my own and try to sell it, but I always end up doing it. And, yeah, dude, it was just, I tell people all the time. Prison is, a lot of people have like a false idea

of what prison is. I mean, you've been to prison, right? So there was no deterrent factor for me with prison. And I feel like most people, like when you go to prison, you just get worse. It's supposed to be this punishment. And it's like, if you're in the right headspace, which a lot of us are, you're just going in there for, and you're going to have fun. And you're going to do whatever it is that you've got to do.

And like you're going to get a reputation. And you're going to like put in work. And you're like, this partially becomes, not even partially, a lot of people. The reason why the recidivism rate is so crazy is because this becomes their identity. And so I had a blast, my first prison term. And it wasn't a deterrent in any way. And I used all the way through. And I mean, dude, I overdosed three days after I got out.

Of course. Because now you got stronger shit. Right. And a lot of it. Yeah. And so I overdosed three days after. I checked in, did the family time, all that shit, and due to overdose. And that was actually not even when I figured out that I was an addict.

I didn't figure it out for months still after that. And it was, you know, I was finangling, right? Like working every angle that I possibly could with probation and my parents. And like, and mind you, like, I got kicked out at 16. And that was how the diaper genie, I mean, the breast pump scam came about. It was like, I kicked out. And one thing evolved and knew another. And next thing you know, we went to 38 states in a year.

Okay. Yeah. Talk about that. Okay. This is interesting. Yeah, so I get kicked out, and of course, guess who the, and this is a running theme, right? Is that like, when something bad happens, I always reach out to this same family member who's a drug addict, gang member, criminal, derelict piece of shit. And it's the uncle that molested me as a kid.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, and I, like, now that I understand the psychology of it, like, very much so makes sense that this is going to happen. even if that didn't happen between us, he's the black sheep of the family. So of course I'm going to go there. But then when you add this other layer into it, it's like it gets really complicated, but kind of obvious, right?

And so I'm living with him and he calls me one day and he's like, hey, I'm going to pick you up. Okay. And picks me up. He's like, I need you to do something. All right. He takes me over to Oceanside.

We're living in San Marcos. He takes me to Oceanside. It doesn't tell me shit. It's like a 20 minute drive. doesn't tell me shit, we're just bullshitting, getting high. And he's like, okay, we park. He's like, okay. I need you go in to that Toys R Us.

I need you go to this aisle. I need you go to this shelf. And on that shelf, there's diaper genies. Go to the second layer, right? And get the second, go to the second aisle of it, and go to the second one behind it and grab that box and go buy it with this money. Like, okay.

So I go, I buy it, I get in the car, I give it to him, and he hands me 100 bucks. And I was like, what? He was like, he opens the box and he like shows me what's in the box and it's breast pumps. I'm like, okay. Well, the breast pumps are like a thousand bucks each and there's like six of them in there. Right? And he's like, look, this is what I'm doing. And I've been doing this for a while in San Diego now.

Hold on, explain that. So you paid for a box of what you thought was. diapers. A diaper genie. Okay. I don't know. I don't know what that is. So a diaper genie is a diaper disposal apparatus. And when you put one diaper in there and you spin it and it closes it into this bag, it's like the bags are 100 feet long and you twist it. And so when you take it out, it's like anal beads, go with diapers, right? And he takes the actual diaper genie out, puts it on the display case and then fills it.

it with a bunch of product. And then he puts it back on the shelf and then I go buy it. And now he's got $6,000 worth of merchandise that he can sell on eBay for 30%. Right. And what did you pay for it at the store? 50 bucks? Oh, wow. 60 bucks? Like, I don't know how much a diaper jeannie is anymore, but like 60 bucks. So he went in there. Loaded the box. Loaded the box, put it behind the thing, and then had you go in and buy it. Okay. Right. And, and, and, And he was like, so I've already burnt San Diego out. I've done this in every baby's arrest and toys are us that I could possibly do this in. He's a method.

And he gets super paranoid. He's like, I think they're on to me. And in my head, I'm like, why did you have me do this if they're on to you then? You know, like, in my head, I'm like, the fuck, why would you have me do this? But then he starts explaining the money. And I'm like, I'm willing to take that chance for that money. Right? And so he's like, I'm going to get.

give you $100 a box. Right? And in my head, I'm like, fuck it, whatever. Like, you're going to take all the, like, because now he's talking about we're going to L.A. We're going to Orange County. We're going to stay out there for days. I'm going to, I'll buy you the drugs.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I'll give you $100 a box. And he was like, we could do six of these a day sometimes. I'm like, yeah, for sure, dude. And his profit is he's paying $150. And he's making thousands. It's like 95% margins. Right.

I mean, it's a, no-brainer, honestly. Wow. Yeah. I mean, this method has kind of been patched, you know, like, well, I'll get there. But, uh, so he's like, we're going to start doing this. And then we're going to L.A. And we're burning L.A. We're burning Orange County. We're going out to like, everywhere that we could possibly get, we're heading out to Arizona. And he's like, at some point, it was, you know, weeks of us like going to L.A. and heading out towards Arizona. He was like, we need more people.

And is it just Toys R Us? Babies are Us and Toys R Us. Wow. And that actually was interesting too because the internet was still at his infancy. Like legitimately had been around for 10 years, right? Like the clear web, people have been utilizing it, but they aren't really as savvy as definitely not as today.

But like, go ahead. Yeah, they're not monitoring it. Dude. Back then the way they do today. I ended up finding their security logs. So these were franchises. and each franchise still piggybacks off of the main website, right? So, but you can go check inventory at every individual site.

Well, every individual store, I mean, kept track of their inventory. So you can go in there and be like, like, if you wanted a breast pump, you could be like, oh, I wonder if they have one. And you could check if they had any in stock. Well, they also kept their security logs on the same website and ended up finding it. And so, dude, So this is what he says. He's like, we need to make this bigger.

Like, we need to get a bigger box and we need more people. Because I can't load 20 of these into a cart, go over. Like, we need to orchestrate this thing. So we start orchestrating it. And now I've got like my friends doing it. Right. And we end up getting this house now. Like I rented my first house.

I'm 17, right? Two-bedroom house in Escondido, like in the vans. Valley, 13th in Maple right in the hood. But I got my own house and I got a car, right? And I'm like the man. And I'm not, I graduated high school already. I got this girlfriend. Like, dude, I think I'm like on top of the world, right?

And now I'm like orchestrating all this shit and like making all this money. And now my friends are there. But now my friends live with me. And the deal was like now he's going to profit split with me. Like we're going to split this like down the middle. And my job was to plan. the trips, like actually, like, plan it out. This is where we're doing today. Like, like, game plans, right? But also book the flights, book the hotels, book the cars, like,

book everything, right? And now, you know, like, when I look back on it, it's like, he didn't want his name on any of the shit, you know? But, uh, dude, and it got to the point where he had a legitimate LLC that, like, it was a store that he ran out of his house selling baby goods online. And dude, it was like the perfect cover. So one box of breast pumps is worth $6,000. One diaper genie box. But we moved up to car seat boxes.

Now the diaper genie, let's say it's two feet by 16 inches by 16 inches, right? And we were fitting six, seven of them in there. Now a car seat box is three feet. by three feet by four feet. And so now we're fitting, I mean, it got to the point where we, we'd been to so many babies or us

as we knew the uniform. So we like bought fake uniforms and had somebody go in there and go up the ladder and bring inventory down before we ever even went in there. And that was their whole job. Go in there, take it down,

put it on the shelves and leave. Right? So, because we could fit 30 of them in here. Yeah, like legitimately. But they have to rebox it. So there is some risk because they have to take it out. They have to put it into the other box that's cheaper. No, no, no.

So what this person did specifically, they would dress up. They would act like they work there. They would push over the little trolley cart with the steps, right? They would go up to where they kept them the other inventory. They would just put them on the shelf and leave so that the next person could come and put them in a shopping cart and then fill the shopping cart with them. put like a baby mattress on it and push it over to this vacant, well, that was the other part is we found the floor plans and the security plans on the website. They use three basic floor plans. So anywhere you go in the country, they were going to be one of these three. And if it was

this floor plan, the working cameras were in this aisle, right? It was the same everywhere. And so that person would load up the cart, push it over to this vacant aisle where there's dummy cameras, and then my uncle would meet him there with an empty car seat box that he just put the car seat on the display case, and he would load the box, and we would, everybody would book, and then the next person would come in, get the cart with the car seat box, and go check out with the car seat box. So your only expense is the car seat? Yes, that is it.

And this car seat was 110 bucks. And how, $10,000 were in product? Tens of thousands in some boxes, yeah. And then you guys go to eBay and sell it for 30%. 30%. But there was a buyer in Malaysia where she hit us up. She was buying a ton of inventory, right? And we worked a deal with her where now instead of selling it on eBay,

we would just direct sell it to her. And she gave us like 70 or 80%. Right? Because the margins for her are fucking amazing still. Instead of like 10 points, she was making 20, 25, 30 points. right on each unit and so she would and it got to the point where she would pre-order because we're drug addicts dude like i made 800,000 dollars in a year and i was broke all the time yeah dude crashing cars like going down to t-j and partying and dude it got to the point where three days

out of the week we would be in san diego and then four days out of the week we'd be in any given state like Delaware new york Texas like all of the midwest you know and it was like And you just go to a town and clear out all of the inventory. In the whole town, if we could. Wow. And because we found the- That's genius, bro. Because we found the security logs, we knew when a store was on to us.

Because they would start flagging like, hey, this inventory is missing. Or we would get like random, like, hey, these people, like, we couldn't see pictures. This was just like the log. So it wasn't the actual reports. It was just the log of the reports. And so they would log like suspicious activity, so many people, blah, blah, blah, blah, repeat customers. And so we were like, okay, that store is burned. And so, dude, but it was like a well-oiled machine.

And if somebody gets, if they ask to search the box, well, hey, I just pulled the box from the shelf. You get plausible deniability. Do you remember this store? Babies R.R.S.? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you remember who worked there?

I never went. I don't have any kids. Old ladies and pregnant chicks. Right. You know, like maybe there was like a dude in the office somewhere. Like, dude, they weren't, they didn't want us to lift the car seat out of the box. Like, you know, and we would strategically put the box upside down so that they could just scan it. You know, so, you know, it was, dude, it got to the point where we found this silent packing tape that only USPS has, right?

Because we would have to retape the box. So imagine like we just committed all these felonies And we think we're slick right But if we on tape is loud It's like shh Right that's like a high indicator that like oh what is that noise That doesn't sound like shopping right so we found this silent tape that it was silent when you peeled it off the roll Like dude we it was it got so high tech. I feel like you know like I mean I'm telling you drug addict energy

And ingenuity We need to get drug addicts like like running the federal budget, you know, but we can't let you like have the money. You guys will come up with a way, dude. For sure. That's fascinating. And so your uncle,

the one who molested you, is also the reason that he made you rich. And he's kingpinning it. He's making the most money. He is a severe drug addict. He's legitimately making a shitload of fucking money. Right? But piece of shit.

shit, drug addict, has three daughters at the time. His wife fucking hates him. You know, and like, it's just such a fucking mess. He's buying cars all the time. But this dude does more meth than anybody of it. I was going to say, both of your dealers must have been loving you. Oh, dude. Well, that's a whole other story is like the...

It got to the point where I was so paranoid. Dude, I'm doing math in my head. I'm like, we've crossed. hundreds of state lines to commit crimes intentionally. We're bringing drugs with us everywhere we go. We're doing drugs everywhere we go. And we're not wearing masks in these stores. And yeah, they might not see us doing what we're doing.

But they can put this together. This really isn't rocket science, right? Like, if you watch enough of these patterns long enough, plus what do we need to go to hundreds, of these stores for. You know, so it's like, if any of them communicate with each other and put this together, in my head, I'm like, I'm going to fucking prison forever.

You know, like, these are definitely federal crimes. And when I'm home, I did two things. I was on the dark web researching conspiracy theories, and I was on the clear web researching federal crimes. Right? So I'm getting high. Like, that was my job. and I did it like a fucking professional.

So did this ever get busted or did you go to prison first? Nope. So I got so paranoid, dude, that I stopped. Like, I couldn't leave my debilitating paranoia. Like, plus, I was on a fuckload of drugs. And I was a kid. I literally wasn't 18 yet. You know, so.

Did your uncle ever get busted for something involved in that? He ended up getting busted later on. But our little. crew, it got fucked up. Like, as soon as I stopped, like, shit just went downhill. My uncle stopped paying people. And they had a living with me, and so they're coming back. And he's still paying me because I'm planning the trips.

And so, I mean, dude, it just, it got so fucked up, so fast. And he ended up getting busted later by himself, him and his wife, actually. But nobody got busted. And somebody was eventually charged. for all of our crimes, though. It was a dude in Arizona. The guy that taught my uncle how to do this, he got busted doing it,

and he got charged with, like, probably 50 of our charges. Like, he took those charges. Wow. You know, he actually got busted at one of the stores that we almost got, like, because of the security logs, like, I knew that they were onto us, but so he got busted at one of our stores.

Did he ended up doing a lot of time? I'm going to be honest with you. I have no clue how much time he did. It wasn't. I bet you a lot less than selling a key MF. Like that's what I mean. Fraud. That's why fraud is so rampant and has just accelerated with technology because people are figuring out,

criminals are figuring out that it's a way higher benefit. Return on investment. Return on investment than selling drugs. Wow. And you don't need a network to do it. Right. And it's typically a much higher profit margin, and it's easier to do. Right.

And you can get into it. There's no barrier to entry. No. You don't have to know anybody. You just have to think it up. Have you seen those websites, the dark websites? I have not. I was like figuring out shit about like sovereignty and like the Illuminati and Bilderberger group and finding, you know, mainstream-ish authors on there like Jim Mars and.

and Bill Cooper and things like this, right? And it was either I was reading that or I was on the clear web reading about the crimes that I was committing. I was feeding into this paranoia, dude. And I was, paranoia, as I've told my story, I realize now that, like, paranoia was like a running theme in my story.

That, like, the majority of the time, the only reason why I didn't get in trouble for that is because I was so paranoid, I stopped. It was never logical Like I'm gonna do this You know like some people like make legitimate plans on like I'm gonna make a hundred thousand dollars I'm gonna get out It was never that

It was just massive paranoia that I was gonna go back to prison But you were paranoid even before you went to prison for the first time So you end up with that UUMV or the assault with deadly weapon You go to prison You weren't scared of prison It doesn't sound like it scared you straight And you were in there

you caught another charge. Yeah. And you still had a good time. Had a great time. As only heroin will do, if I ever go back to prison, I'm definitely probably going to slam some dope. You know, it's a good way to get through.

I mean... So dangerous now. For sure. So dangerous, no. Did you get Hep C? So, this is another part of the story. It's like, I finally got clean, right? And I went to the...

This is years. I mean, years of intervenious drug use. I slammed heroin for 17 years. and I smoked and slammed meth for 12 to the point where I had no more veins so I was muscling everything you should see my ass cheeks dude I look like I would love to

I would I look like I've been shot with shotgun like multiple times yeah you're you know how you don't have veins so you're skin popping or muscle like dude I'm in like I got inch needles and I'm injecting straight into the muscle I'm getting these abscesses the size of softballs dude my shoulders

so I started working out a few years ago, and one of my worries was that, like, my shoulders would never recover. The body is a very resilient biomechanical machine, and it recovered. But my delts were gone, dude, like, completely gone. Just because you're, you're so sucked up? No, because I would inject into the muscle. It would get infected. It would necrotize with the abscess. Like, the abscess would basically eat the muscle tissue, and then the muscle would just never grow back. So I had these giant pits. Like, you could put a baseball into my shoulder,

and it would, like, maybe like a quarter of the baseball would stick into it. Oh, fuck, dude. Right? And so... Narnly. After all that, right? And just being homeless and, like, not giving a fuck. And, like, dude, there were months where I never took a shower.

Wow. Didn't brush my teeth all the time. So after you get out of prison... Wait, let me tell you this. Okay. I go to the doctor after I get clean. Mm-hmm. and I got to, he was like, you have hep C.

So I'm like, okay, what do we do? He's like, you got to do this and blood work and blah, blah, blah. And I go to like the third appointment and the doctor's like, what are you doing here? I was like, oh, we were supposed to start like planning for the, whatever the treatment's called. And he was like, no, no, no, your blood work came back. You have antibodies. You don't have hep C. Your body was exposed to it sometime and fought it off.

And so I never. caught Hep C, but I was exposed to it. And I went to the dentist. I have all my teeth and no fillings to this day. And when I found out that I had a clean bill of health and I had no dental issues, I swore off the doctors and dentists for the rest of my life and I haven't been back since. Nice, dude. Yeah. Yeah. That's a miracle that you have all your teeth. Massive miracle. You know what's even more of a miracle? Like I'm mentally intact. Yeah. How many people do you know or maybe that you've interviewed, right? That like they're just kind of mentally off or just they're just full blown gone. Well, I heard that most drugs, and when it comes to your mind, if you get off of them,

your brain will grow itself back. I've heard that if you smoke meth, though, for long enough, that whatever it does to your brain just kills it. Yeah, that fries the circuitry for sure. And what you're talking about is neurogenesis and the ability of your brain to heal, right? So yeah, your brain is a unique organ that like your liver can kind of reproduce itself a little bit, but like this is the only thing that can restruct. And it makes sense though because your brain develops post birth, right? So like your prefrontal cortex doesn't develop until you're 25 fully.

Right. And so it has this ability and maybe it was created this way for a reason or whatever. But actually, if you look at thought patterns, right? thought patterns change, ideas change, and that's actually the architecture of your brain is changing. When you have a new thought, you know, one of my really good doctor friends, he told me he was like, do you know how to build a new neurological pathway? I was like, nope, he said every time you have a new thought or a unique thought, you've built a new neurological pathway, but now it's up to you to reinforce it. And through the reinforcement of a new neurological pathway, others die. And so

specifically with meth, it burns the synapsis in your brain. So it fries the ability to communicate, basically, right? And if you look at like brains, you know, what's that dude's name? Dr. Amin in L.A. Thousands and thousands of brain scans, addicts, famous people, geniuses, dumb people, drug, like, homeless people. And, I mean, he's just, he's done thousands. I mean, probably, I heard it was millions, but I don't know how, it's a lot.

He's done a lot of brain scans. And the unique thing about a meth addict's brain is they always talk about the dead space, right? That it fries holes into your brain. What it really does is it shuts down the circuitry to a point where it's irreparable, right? And so that is, you know, when you see a tweaker that tweaked for 20 years and then he's been off meth for 20 years, you can still see the tweak, right? But with everything else, post-acute withdrawal syndrome can be 18 to 24 months. But yeah, most of the neurological damage is repairable.

A lot of the mental illness is repairable. It's interesting because substance use disorder is a mental health diagnosis, right? So everybody that has SUD has a mental illness. But not everybody who has a mental illness has substance use disorder, right? So when people talk about like alleviating symptoms and like healing the mind, which is not the brain, right? Like healing the mind. And that's another part of it is like, where is the mind?

Like we don't actually, we've never actually isolated where the mind is, right? They used to think it was in the heart, right? And this is why, like, you feel things. They used to think that your mind was in the heart. Now we think that it's centered in the brain. We really don't know, right? Like, when you think about where am I, outside of my body, like, where am I? Like, people kind of, like, center it in their head.

But that could also just be that we're geared to think that way. Fascinator. And so the mind has the ability to heal just as much as the brain does. But a lot of that has to do with a lot of recovering addicts participate in their trauma in their recovery, right? Which is a choice. And my whole thing is that like after even as a child, right, like trauma happens to you. But even as an adult, like you choose to participate in your trauma. And by choose, I mean it's like if you don't go fix it, which it's fixable, there's science behind this, right?

Like, it's a soft science, right? Because like I said, we don't actually know what the mind is. And the cure or the mitigation of the symptoms is so different for every individual. So you and I might have the same mental illness diagnosis, but we're going to treat it two different ways. And that's the same for 100 people. We could all have the same thing. We'd have OCD. We could have whatever.

But there's no scientific way to treat these things. Like it's also subjective, like, and individual to the person. And so, yeah, there's some science behind it, but it's still a very soft science because there's no way to scientifically do anything with the mind yet, right? But like with Neurrelink and like some of this other shit, maybe, maybe in the future we'll be able to like fix the mind. Yeah, but the neuro pathways, that is hard science now, especially. The neuropath, the brain is a hard science.

The mind is not. Right. So psychology, psychiatry, these are. soft science. But neurology, that's a hard science. Yeah, fix how you think and just, it's like a muscle and you will attract that. And it's just about reprogramming the neuropathways. And there's different ways to do that. So you got out of prison. How did things evolve or devolve after you got out the first time and what happened? So like I said, I was 16 when I got kicked out. I connected with my family when I was in and built like a plan with them.

I was going to get out. I was going to go to culinary school. And I was going to do right, right? The same pipe dream that we all sell our family to manipulate and like be able to take advantage, right? And so I overdose three days after I get out. But I go to culinary school. I'm manipulating my family.

I'm manipulating my PO. And like, I've got all the excuses in the, world. I come in dressed like in a suit and tie and I'm doing all this shit. I'm going to church and like I'm fixing shit right. But dude, I'm slamming heroin the whole time. And things red flags start popping up. But I think at by this point my parents are just kind of unaware. Right. And so I was able to manipulate them. Of course, the people that you manipulate first are the closest people to you, right? And then it kind of ripples out from there as you can't manipulate these people anymore. It just kind of travels outward. And so it didn't devolve quickly, but it devoled. It was like

a dynamite moment, right? Like it was a long fuse with a huge stick of dynamite. And so it was just a slow burn all the way up. And then once they realized like what was going on, dude, it was over. and I woke up one morning and I realized like also like I dropped out of culinary school culinary school drop out. So I get on parole, real parole, like state parole. And about the time, maybe four months after I get out of prison is when I drop out or go on this whatever thing. And right about the same time AB109 takes effect and they're transferring a shitload of

people off of parole and onto AB109, which is county supervised parole so that they can alleviate the stress on the state system because if you get a parole violation, you go to prison. But now if you're county supervised, instead of going to prison, you can go to the county and do your violation in county. So yeah, I get out, all that shit goes on. And I wake up one morning and I realize, mind you, like, I'm living with my parents again because I keep getting kicked out of these places. Oh, so right about, this is why I moved in with them is because my PO comes to my house to deliver papers to say that I'm being put on AB 109 and to do a house visit and they know I'm home. They're doing sweeps and putting people on AB 109. So he shows up with a

bunch of cops and I'm not answering the door, but my car's there. So they kick the door in, Well, they climbed through the downstairs window, and then they kicked my bedroom door in. And I've got heroin and paraphernalia all over the place. And so he locks me up. And this is where, like, the fuse hit the bomb. And shit started to explode. And I convinced my parents, like, that I realized, that, what was it?

I can't even remember, like, the lie that I told him. But it wasn't for drugs, as far as my parents know, right? This is why it was only 10 days. I didn't get charged with anything. It was a violation for some stupid shit. So I get out now. I'm living with my parents. And I wake up a morning and I'm like,

my uncle did this. But my uncle's parents are way different than my parents. My uncle's, my grandparents enabled him. And they let me, I mean, to this day, he lives with my grandparents still to this day. The uncle that molested me, right? And, too, I'm like, I'm going to burn every opportunity. My parents are going to kick me out, and I'm never going to be welcome back.

So I made a decision one day, and I was like, I'm just going to go do whatever it is that I have to do. And if I make it back, I make it back. And so I left my cell phone that they're paying for. And, dude, I split. And I didn't talk to my family. For some of them, it was 14 years. The majority of them, it was 10. But, dude, I was just like, I can't do this.

You said, fuck it. You had the fuck it, you know. Well, I think it was, this was like my first moment of clarity. too where it was like if I a lot of people in addiction straddle the fence right they do this thing where they're like they'll want to do good but they'll do bad and they'll burn every opportunity that they have because they're doing bad and the people that love them are always victimized first and it's just like I used what my uncle did and learned from that this is like my first wise moment ever and I was like if I make it back and I never fucked my family over I know that

I'll be welcome back. And the majority of people, and this is why a lot of addicts in recovery that relapse have such a big problem is because they're literally fighting themselves. And I told myself, I was like, I'm not going to fight myself. I'm just either, I'm either going to do this or I'm going to get clean. And I wasn't going to get clean. So I was like, fuck it, I'm going to go do this. And so I started running.

And this is where like my real criminality started, right? Is that like while I was in prison, I like clicked up. with this gang and like now I have like connections to like some deeper street shit and um so I leave my parents house course guess first person I call your uncle my uncle and um he's living in his truck in a park just doing meth and like this is funny he he's still kind of doing the boxing thing but he hasn't been caught yet he's doing this boxing thing But he's getting turbo taxes, like the software, and he's just selling that online. And so we kind of like are doing this together.

But my job, because they have the alarms in the software, he sets the alarm off all the time. And so like my job was to like look as ghetto as fuck, like as ghetto as I possibly could and walk out at the same time as him because he just bought something. Like if this alarm goes off, who are they going to stop? They're going to stop me. And so my whole job was to like be a distraction. And so by the time, because I'm like, pants are sagging down to here.

I smell like bud. Like I'm just, I look like a piece of shit. So he was stealing him from Best Buy's or something? No, it was Office Depot. This is before Office Mac. So it was like Office Depot and there was another store. I can't even remember. Staples.

And so, yeah, now we're doing this. But we're hanging out at trap houses. and at one of these trap houses, this is where I start doing meth too. So now I'm doing meth and heroin. Yeah. And, dude, the mental obsession that meth... Have you ever done Adderall?

Yeah, I never liked it. Yeah. Like, did you get the focus? Yeah. Okay. But it's tweaky. Sure. You just immediately feel it.

Gross. Yeah. Gross. But I'm doing heroin to combat the tweaky. Mm-hmm. Right? So, but I become... mentally obsessed with this trap house.

Like, I don't know what, to this day, I can't figure out what it is. Plus, there was like a girl there, but it was like right down the street from my childhood home. There was like all of these contributing factors, but I became obsessed with this house. And every time he'd be like, well, what do you want to do? I'd be like, let's go back to the house on 25th and K in Golden Hill, dude. This is like, do you know where that is? No, what part of San Diego? So it is directly east of downtown.

Okay. Right? So like the five freeway, there's like 17th Street where all the homeless people are. The five freeway, the next street is like 20th. This was five streets off of that. And like seven streets up, you cross the 54, right? So it's like right there. And I'm like, let's go to 25th and K.

And eventually he'd be like, what is up with you in this house? Like, dude, they don't want us over there that much. And so anyway, I meet this girl, woman. She was like 40. I was 22. And, yeah, dude, I find out that she's, like, mentally ill. And she's got this roommate that's her best friend. But she's deployed for, like, the next year.

And she's got this whole house to herself on 38th and Logan. Logan Heights. In Shelltown. In Shelltown. So it's Eastmore. But 38th and Logan, dude, if people are listening. Like, if they know where that is, they know where that is, right? So.

It's the hood. It's the hood. Yeah. Dude, it isn't like. And so anyway, I move in with her. And, you know, we like, we start fucking, now we're together. And we figure out that I was in elementary school with her son. Right.

And, uh, and dude, but she's like whacked out mentally, like straight up schizophrenic, bipolar and doing meth. And so she would be great for like a week. And then for two days, it would just be fucking hell, dude. And she'd be like, hearing voices and like I'm sure the meth didn't help anything but she would finally like go to sleep and then wake up and dude it was like blueberry pancakes in the morning and like fucking and like all the shit right well I like start hooking up with my people right and um but I'm buying meth

from them and my boy calls me one day and he's like hey do you think you can get rid of more I was like what are you talking about he was like do you think you could could sell more. Like, sell more of what? He's like, the dope. Duh. I was like, I'm not selling dope. He's like, dude, you're doing all that?

Like, yeah. He was like, shit. Well, do you think you could sell dope? I don't know. I'll try. So I came off, dropped off a bunch of dope. I sold it. He was like, okay, we're in business, right?

Like, he's like, we're going to give you that. At the time, a pound of meth was $800. Like, that's what they were buying it for. Right? So they were getting ounces for 50 bucks. So I would pay them 200 bucks an ounce and I would make like 600 bucks. So that really quickly escalated. And now I'm able to move like quarter pounds, half pounds, and occasionally like a pound. Right. And we're getting rid of pounds for 1,600.

And we're getting them for 800. So we're doubling our profit, right? We're doubling our money. But now I've got all these Asian bloods at this chick's house. Asian blood gang members Yes Wild And dude these are like the most Specifically one of them

His name was lucky This is like he was I'm 5 5 5 He was shorter than me And I was strung out And he was smaller than me But this is easily like the most violent Person I've ever seen

Like ever Like if you owed this dude money It was bad news But the person who got it the worst Was his girlfriend And dude He would beat the fuck out of her But it became so normal to like everybody around him

Nobody would even think twice about it He'd be like beating the shit out of her in front of my house And I'd be like looking out my front window Like holy fuck He'd be like have her head by the by the hair And like smashing her head against the glass I'd be like oh my God Like this is so fucking crazy

Well then he starts beating the shit out of her in the house And I got this psychotic chick in the room And like it's just And are you trapping out of the house? Yes, turns out of the house Okay So you got men Meth heads coming all day every day.

Yeah, but we're selling two dealers. Like, we're a dealer's dealer, right? Like, the average tweaker is not coming to us. But there's still tweakers. Like, the average meth dealer is using meth. This isn't like heroin where, like, I think the average big heroin dealer is selling heroin. They're not doing it, right? But, like, meth, you're doing it.

Right? Yeah, if you're selling houses of meth, you don't move up, you're probably doing it. For sure, for sure. And even still, like, everybody that I knew. So the guy that was getting the 10 packs, he was doing it. And we were buying, so he would get 10 packs for us. And we would give him 5 grand, right? It was like 5 grand.

It was 6,400 bucks, I think. For 10 pounds of math. For 10 pounds of math. It's fucking crazy dirt cheap. Dude. And they were getting it from Vegas. So we'd go from Vegas to Victimville. Victorville.

Well, victimville. From Vegas to Victimville, from Victimville, from Victimville to San Bernardina. from San Bernardino to San Diego. And by the time it came to us, it was $6,400 for a 10-pack. Wow. And that's a lot of movement. Imagine how cheap

they're actually getting rid of it for. Like, whoever's producing it is selling it for a couple hundred bucks a pound. Right? But they're probably producing hundreds of pounds. Well, they bring it over at that price. They're probably bringing it over in liquid vats. For sure.

So it's so much. They don't even really know their profit margin. cheap as it comes over in huge you know they bring it over in some industrial you know dude they just got to get rid of it yeah so they're getting rid of it's price to get rid of but dude we're so yeah the people that are coming to our house they're definitely tweakers but they're not like breaking into cars and stealing stereos right um but still pieces of shit like we're all pieces of shit and um he beat the lucky was beating the shit out of his girl dude and like it was uh It was a fucking mess, dude.

So I get connected to this network of gang members in prison, right? But I'm not a gang member. And so I'm 22. I have this whole thing going on. And I become a gang member fucking with these dudes, right? But I'm 22. These guys have all been in the same clique since they were fucking kids, literally, like, since they were 10, 11, 12, 13. And I mean, this is just a testament of like, dude, I'm not a gang member.

Like, sitting where I'm sitting today. is like I can honestly tell people it's like, dude, I'm not a tough guy. And I'm not a gangster. And I'm not like a drug dealer. Like I'm not, that's not who I am. Right. Like who I am at my core is like a regular guy.

But again, the shattering of the personality and the like chameleon and also the benefits of these groups and the drugs and the lifestyle. And now you're like addicted to more like we talked about earlier. It's not just the drugs. It's the lifestyle and access to girls. And like, so you layer in a little. all in, it's like drug, sex money, drug, sex, money, power. Drug, sex, money, power. And it's like perfect recipe for disaster, right? Plus, we're all so reckless, dude. We're rolling around with

drugs and guns and money and we're selling to anybody that wants it. And sure enough, dude, we start noticing weird shit on our phones and people are following us. And we're like, I, dude, I'm going to go to sleep and I'm going to, I'm going to wake up. And if they're still following me after I've slept, they're following me, right? I'm going to wake up and if I'm still hearing this weird clicking on my phone, they tap my phone. Right. And it's like, we're definitely being followed. We're definitely probably getting investigated. But dude, we're just basically, it's like till the wheels fall off, every single one of us are rolling around strapped with a shitload of drugs. Right. And now this house,

that's not my house, that's not her house, has turned into a trap house. Mind you, this is like a military, like, this is somebody that's in the military. This is their house. And this is her car. Like, I'm driving her car around. Like, I mean, it was such a mess, dude. But Lucky would call me and be like, hey, look out your front window. And he would drive by.

And then two cars would drive by. And he'd be like, hey, is that the cops? Like, those are absolutely cops, dude. And so, like, it's very. parent to us, like we're being investigated. And, and I'm giving drugs to my uncle, like an ounce at a time and telling them, when you run out, I'll give you more, but give it to all your friends, get everybody that you know hooked and tell them to call me. Right? Because, dude, I'm willing to sell an eight ball. Like, I'm not, I'm willing to sell an eight ball for

$30. It was 17 is what I was paying for it, basically, right? So, fucking, I don't care what you want. I'll sell you a gram if you want. Like, I didn't. I just didn't care. And so everybody else was like, oh, I only sell ounces or quarters or halves or pounds. And it's like, I don't get the fuck, dude. Like, I'm just having a fucking blast.

So my uncle gets popped. Right? And he gets caught with it like a teener. But instead of going to jail and like fucking maybe getting a ticket, guess what he does? Fucking tells on me. Well, yeah, he already molested you.

Dude, he fucked me twice. Yeah. Oh, dude. So he tells on me. And so now he's doing controlled buys, right? But he set it up and he called me one day. I should have known too. He was like, hey, I got this dude named Tattoo Face from Vista Homeboys.

And I'm like, Vista Home. Like I went to high school in San Marcos. I started doing drugs in North County. I was like, tattoo face. I've never heard of a tattoo face from Vista Homeboys. Like, whatever. whatever. And sure enough, I show up. The dude wants a quarter pound. I give it to him. He's got tattoos on his face. Like, okay, whatever, right? So a couple days later, get another one. And like a

week goes by. And I think it's weird that like my uncle's middlemanning this because the deal is like, you bring them to me and I give you free drugs. But I'm like, ah, he wants to make a couple bucks, whatever. Hey, they need a pound. It's like a week later. Hey, they need a pound. I'm like, okay, I'll be there a half an hour, right? I'm in basically southeast San Diego. I got to go to San Marcos. I'm definitely going to speed all the way there

with the gun and the drugs. And a pound of meth, yeah. Not just a pound of meth. When I got arrested, it was a pound of meth and a hundred grams individually bagged with scales, guns, pipes, loaded rigs. Like, dude, I was like not giving a fuck. Gone, yeah.

Not giving a fuck. So I get there. And I'm like, normally they're like, pretty quick. Like, I pull up, I park, they pull up, park, it's in and out. And it's like 10 minutes go by. And I'm calling my uncle and he's not answering. And I'm like, this is really fucking weird. Call him again, no answer. Call him again, no answer. And I look into the rearview mirror and an F150 pulls up behind me and a blue or purple Mustang pulls up and they're head to head. And white boys are jumping out. And these white boys,

They got chucks and cut off dickies and wife beaters and shaved heads and tattoos. And I'm like, my stomach drops. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm getting robbed. I'm probably getting killed. You know, like, I'm like, oh shit. And so like all of these calculations are going on. And by the time I realize, like, I'm super fucked. They're on the car already.

But guess what they knock on the window with is a police badge? And I'm like, so now it's like registering really fast, right? Like, oh shit, those are cops. Oh, fuck, those are cops. Well, at least I'm not getting fucking jacked or killed. It's like, fuck, but now I'm going to jail. Fuck, I'm going back to prison. Like all that happens and like, have you been there?

Have you done that before? I would much rather get robbed than have it be the cops. Yeah, but. That's how we always looked at it. Since it was the, yeah, but I didn't know. these white boys look fucking crazy. Yeah, we never been robbed like that. Those cops are taking their lives in their own hands.

You know what I mean? Like somebody who's super tweaked out could easily just take a shot. For sure. These were a fucking cowboys. It was the rat task force, the racketeering and auto theft task force. And dude, they built a whole case. Dude, I mean, so I ended up this, this arrest was a part of a bigger orchestration. And a bunch of, like, 46 people ended up getting arrested.

They found like a million dollars in cash. A hundred pounds of meth. Two dead bodies. Like under Grandma's house. Like, it was just white boys, blacks, Mexicans, Asians. Like, it was a big deal. 46 guns were seized. Like, it was, no, 64 guns and 46 people were arrested.

I mean, so it was like a part of a big deal. And like, none of us gave a fuck, dude. like we were all rolling around like that, right? And there was just so many snitches and like people got life sentences off of this. And like, you know, I ended up getting four years with half. State time still. No. You went to the feds.

State local. So I did a prison term in the county. Wow. And I did 28 months. You luck, dude. If you were in any other state, you'd be in the feds for a pound of meth, guns. Guns. Yeah.

Dude. Like not just. I sold to them. Yeah. Like, this wasn't like a, oh, let's pull this idiot over and find a bunch of like those idiots. Do you ever watch these teeth? Well, anyway, it wasn't some like accidental drug bust. They knew what they were doing.

And so, but dude, there were so many people. And there were so much shit. And there was so much motion around this case. Lucky bailed out. Like, he got arrested somewhere else. Lucky bails out and disappeared. Like literally never, no court cases. He just disappeared.

And I found this out years later, but like there's the speculation is he was either working for the feds or he got killed for being suspected of being a rat. You know, and it's like multiple people got life sentences. A couple people ended up dead. People disappeared. A bunch of people got a lot of time, a little time. It was just like a big thing went down. And so I went, did my second prison term. How long did you do?

28 months on four years a half. Okay. And did you get clean in there? Fuck no. Same thing. So now I'm in the county where there's drugs coming through every day. And dude, it's flooded San Diego County Jail, Bailey, Vista. Dude, these are all like hubs.

Bailey is, you could see Mexico. You get connected in San Diego County Jail real easy. For sure. And the drugs are, you know, depending on like, How flood it is, like the drugs are easier to get and cheaper in the jail. Right? And it's the cell next to me. I can just fish to him and get high all night, right?

Are you doing meth in there or just heroin? Just heroin. Okay. Just heroin. Uh, and like when there wasn't heroin, there'd be like Suboxin. But dude, I stayed pretty strung out like the whole fucking time. Fuck. And now imagine like I'm 23.

right and I have no real ties to anybody so I did this time like by myself you know and you have no communication with your family none not a letter not a visit not a J-pay nothing right and and I wanted it this way like I have social media now but before a year ago my last social media was my space because I knew like if they wanted to get a hold of me and I had a Facebook or Instagram, like they could, they could get a hold of me. And I'm in the same city as them. I drove by their office daily sometimes, right? Like, they were there. I knew they knew I was there. They had an executive, a friend that was an executive in the sheriff's department. And every time I got arrested, he would send him the booking picture and the charges. Right. And so

they kept tabs on me, but like, dude, I didn't want to get found because of what I told myself is like, if I survive this and I make it out the other side, then I'll go back. But until then, I'm going to do whatever it is that I have to do. My friend says that we have wayward souls, right? That like there was something, we were born with something broken and we had to go fix it ourselves in order to like be a normal person again. Right. And so that's what did you feel like you were chasing after? As a drug addict, you're just chasing the next high. So what was the goal? Yeah. I, I, I had no, and see, so like, I feel like a lot of people have that where there is like, they're chasing something.

I wasn't chasing anything, dude. I was just, this is what I wanted to do. And I think that for people in recovery and or in sobriety, they point to this disease model of addiction. And they can always point back to the disease component to say, this is why I relapsed. Right? When the reality is, first of all, there's a bunch of literature out there that points to it isn't a disease. It's an attachment disorder. Again, a mental health thing. But when you take the disease model away, it now gives you 100% choice back, right? And one of the, through therapy and like, because, you know, I got clean and like wanted to figure out this sexual abuse thing. And one of the things that after 18 months of intense therapy, my therapist was like, like, look, dude, you're not using because of your sexual trauma. Like, she's convinced that, like, I'm using because I want to, right?

That, like, I did what I wanted to do. Also, like, I was diagnosed with something, and she was like, you're not using emotionally. Like, you're using because this is what you want to do. And until that was satisfied, I wasn't going to stop. And from my last arrest, the deal was 33 years, right? And max exposure was 85 to life. And this is for the bank robbery? It was, the bank robbery was the big charge, but it was like bank robbery, multiple drug sales, weapons charges, residential burglaries, and then like a bunch of other shit.

And so when they told me 33 was the deal, I was like, what? How is that the deal? And then I started doing the math on it, and I was like, I know people that have gotten life sentences for residential burglaries. And I know people that have gotten life sentences for bank robberies. And all of this put together. I was like, yeah, you know what? 33 years is a good deal. And that was really where I was like, I need to decide if I'm done or not.

Hmm. You know, and that was really COVID. So I'm isolated in a cell for months. Like we were all single cell. I was at least. There was other places that maybe it was, you had two people in a cell or whatever. But I went to Vista and I was single-celled. So I was isolated.

And we were getting out. every two days for a 15 minute shower. So there was no like interaction. Plus, it wasn't flooded because of COVID, right? So I turned my isolation into solitude and really got to think and deconstruct and like make real assessments. So like, okay, am I going to go do this? Because historically, I would always just go do my time.

They would offer a deal. Nope. Give me the time. Right. Give me as little time as possible. I'll sign right now. That's so that's how I got like my deal. it'd be like first offer I would almost always tell them if you give me a better offer

right now I'll sign it you know like so how many you were facing all those years because of your criminal record because of your priors no the the priors really didn't factor into it because they were all different charges okay right so I have four strikes but they're all significantly different what are your strikes what were your strikes from so assault so I took two on this case but one was assault one was the bankrupt The other was the weapons charge. Okay.

And they suspended another one, right? And so... And did you go to prison? So you get out of prison the second time from the meth and the drug or the gun case. Yeah. Did you do between getting out and then facing the bigger charge

where you finally get sober? Did you do any time between that? Okay, so you stayed off, stayed out of prison for the next 15 years or something. No, it wasn't 15. But so I got out at 50. I got out at in a, 2015-16.

Okay. From there. And then from 2000, let's see, I guess it was July of 2016. I went to San Bernardino. That's where all the credit card shit happened. Tell us about the credit card stuff. Okay. I will.

Let's do the math really quick. So I get the, I go up there for three years. I come back in 2018. I meet Megan. 2018, 2019, 2000. So December 28th of 2020 was when I robbed the bank. Right. Okay.

So it was like five years, four years that I stayed out. Okay. But the reason why I stayed out is because I signed, I was on AB 109 and I signed that deal for no paper. So I was like, give me the best deal that you can. They're like three years a half. I was like with five years on paper. But for AB 109, all you needed was 18 months.

But I was like, the reason why I keep coming back is. because I'm on probation. So I told them, give me no paper, and I'll do more time. So I got four years with no paper. And the reason why I stayed out for that long is because I had no probation. So then after I get out, I immediately start using and, I mean, immediately start using and selling drugs again. And I very quickly realized, like, I'm definitely going back to prison, right?

But this time, it's not going to be a slap on the wrist, little bullshit. Like, they already dropped the weapons charge and all this other shit. And I just got swept up in this big case and like, but if I get caught on my own doing this, they're going to fucking wash me up, right? So I was like, I got to get out of here. So I reached out to a couple of people that I knew and took off to San Bernardino. Now, San Bernardino, we talked about it earlier, but San Bernardino is the Wild Wild West. It's different out there, buddy.

Dude. I can't even. Like, it's just different, dude. The 909. Like, and, dude, all the way from like, Fontana, all the way to Banning, all the way to Victorville, all the way to fucking Temecula even, dude, it's like that place is, but San Bernardino,

I was living on Arnold and ninth behind Valley College, right, in San Bernardino, in the heart of the West Side, which is the biggest gang. in San Bernardino. And I'm living with an active gang member. But this active gang member is clean. And he's got like five years of real recovery. And do you know the difference between like recovery and sobriety?

I've heard about it. Yeah. Okay. So let me say this is that if you look up the definitions, the definition of sobriety, you'll never be more sober than you are today for. It doesn't matter if you've been sober for 40 years or four days. You'll never be more sober.

Right? Sober is just not using. Yeah, it's free from mind-altering substances, right? But you can always be more, and I'm talking about the recovery that you have at a month should be massively evolved at three months, should be massively evolved at three years, should definitely be massively evolved at three decades, right? You can always be more recovered. And this guy's got like five years of solid recovery, right?

He's not just sober. This dude's doing the deal. And I reach out to him. and he puts me in this program. He's working at a program. It's a long-term program, so I'm there for six months. He puts me in there. And he tells me, like, dude, if you finish this program, I'll help you.

Right? So, okay, he's helping me. I finished the program. I was there for seven months. I immediately start working for this brick company, and now I move to the plant, and now I'm working at this plant, and I move out of his house,

and kind of away from him. He's in San Bernardino. Now I'm living in Fontaineau. Hannah at Coronado Stone. I was living at the plant. And I start using. Right. So I start using and I get fired. So now I move back with Chris. I have to tell him. This is what happened. He's like, fucking told you this is a bad idea. So one thing leads to another. I mean, this is a really fucking long story. So I don't know how much time we have, but do you want to like go over this or?

Sure. Well, what are you about to tell me? What's the story? I asked about the credit card fraud. So this is what leads into it. But first, there was this Amazon scam that we did where an executive at the Amazon cluster realized that they're going to have a really big problem on their hands because they are throwing away good merchandise. And they're filling up the landfill with TVs and electronics and sex toys, like unopened, returned. Okay. Either returned or the contract was up and they didn't renew the contract.

And so they bought it for like pennies on the dollar, but now they're, they have to get rid of it. And so they're filling these landfills. And so he's like, an environmental agency or like a news agency is going to get word of this and we're going to be super fucked. So he gets this idea. He starts donating all of this good shit to himself, right? And he starts to get away with it. And he fills up his house and he realizes it. So he starts at 501, C3, like a nonprofit's called.

I don't know if I should say what it was. It was called Noble Industries, right? And now he's donating all the shit to himself and he's selling it all online. But dude, this guy's filling up warehouses, MoVow, Redlands, San Bernardino, with a ton of shit. But I don't know if you realize this,

but Amazon is like the biggest seller of sex toys than anything else. I believe it. And they don't actually sell anything. They offer a service, right? It's all basically drop shipping. But dude, they are facilitating the sale of, like, massive amounts of sex toys and massive amounts of tactical gear and massive amounts of electronics. And he's just getting pallets of this shit.

Palettes of this shit, dude. He fills his whole house up with it. He fills up his garage first, and now he's filling up his living room and now the extra rooms. And now it's in his room. And his wife's like, this has got to stop or you've got to do something. So he starts getting these warehouses. And now he's filling up these warehouses. but legitimately probably 50% of it is stuff that he wants to sell.

So it's these like giant gay lords and pallets just have you ever seen how Amazon works? They fill up those yellow bins with just a bunch of shit. And so he's getting the actual pallets sometimes, right? And he's reselling it on Amazon? On, nope, on like eBay and like just third party. Some of it's going on off or up, you know? Yeah. I mean, he's just selling it wherever you can.

And now his son's doing it with them. But anyway, he realizes like, we need sorters because half of this shit is trash. And we don't know what to do with half of this shit. So Chris is the transportation supervisor regionally at the Salvation Army. You know what Salvation Army does, right? They go and pick up everybody's trash and then they try to resell it. And he, by fluke, he just runs into Chris at a gas station and says, hey, I got a bunch of shit. I'll donate it to you.

Right. And so now he's picking up all their trash, which isn't even trash, right? It's just like knick-knack shit, right? And even some of it, it's like shoes and clothes. Like he doesn't want the shoes and clothes. Like he wants the electronics, the sex toys, the tactical gear. He wants the Garmin watches. He wants the Amazon sells a ton of really nice shit.

And he's getting all of it. I think that Christmas he had like pallets of 65-inch Sony TVs and he was giving them to all his family and friends and we got a bunch of them. And like he just has that much shit. and so now Chris's wife is one of the sorters at the warehouse and now it's such a big orchestrate like now what his deal is is like he's like Chris quit working there um Shelley you're going to quit working there you guys are just going to be my employees full time and it's a 501c3 so I can't actually like give you money but you can get stipends and

I'm going to buy you cars and pay for your houses and all this shit right sells like This dude doesn't do drugs, right? Massively successful RV business and then becomes this executive at Amazon, old white dude, right? And he convinces us like he's going to help us, right? Like he's going to pull this ghetto family out of the ghetto and we're going to be like doing good. And so now Chris quits his job. Shelly quits her job that she'd worked for 20 years or something like that. And Chris quits like a really good job.

or he's like, anyway, we start doing this thing with him. This dude buys trucks, like 26 foot bobtails. And so now we're still donating all this shit to the Salvation Army, but now we're just doing it. And now we're driving these trucks. And like, it turns into this whole thing. All kind of comes crashing and burning because we realize this guy's burning us. Like he's made all these promises.

He's not delivering. And one of the things that Amazon sells is, carting equipment, right? It's like the embossing machines and the hot foil presses and the skimmers and like everything that you could ever need or want to forge and make and press credit cards. We have access to all of it. And he doesn't know what it is, right? And Chris is a gang member and he lives in his hood and he starts hearing like all these

people are carding, right? And he, so shit hits the fan, ends in like a huge explosion. of a scene and like put a gun in this dude's mouth and like threaten them you're gonna fucking pay us and this is the extortion that I was telling you about is I watched Chris like effectively extort this dude for tens of thousands of dollars in a very short amount of time and I realized like people who have a lot to lose will pay because they don't want to be exposed go to prison whatever and so this is why like the extortion I was it was already I was already in that mindset is because we walked out of that warehouse that day with $10,000 each in checks and pink slips

to those trucks. Right? So now Chris is like, we're going to start this moving company and blah, blah, blah, Chris understands like Bill of Layden and like the logistics up like U.S. Department of Transportation. He understands all that, right? So he's like, we're going to start this moving company. And while the moving company never got off the ground, but we should.

started credit card fraud and we had access to all the machines and we had access to everything that we needed and guess what else he has access to because of his gang ties and like this is san bernadino this is like the land of the tweaker he has access to hundreds of tweakers right and so he's like do you think you can do this i'm like i think i can do anything like if you give me enough time i could figure anything out right and dude i start making these cards And we're like, we have tweakers running into Target and Walmart and everywhere stealing gift cards because they have the foil stamps on them, right? You can do it with blanks, but that's going to raise suspicion, right? And the thing about it is, if you forge a credit card, they never look at the name that comes up.

They look to see if the ID matches the card. So if I'm pressing the card, we can have all these tweakers, give us their IDs, and I can just match the credit card to their name. Okay, okay. This is fascinating. because I'm such a not fraud guy. Yeah. But, okay, say you send a tweaker into Target. Yeah.

And he buys or steals a bunch of, like, target gift cards. Yeah. How do you press that into a credit card? Okay. So first you got to, like, through trial and error, realize, like, there's certain chemicals that you can use to rub off the paint and not damage the card. Okay. So you've got to rub off the paint first, right?

And then there are actual formulas, like the different credit cards. companies use like capital one uses one formula this other one uses a different one american express uses a different one a different formula for where the name the date the expiration where all of that is located on the card well all that's available on the dark web too where i'm buying the credit card numbers from and so i'm literally i have templates and so now i've got this hot foil press to press the silver on it and i've got an embossing machine where i'm spending fucking day straight tweaking and slamming heroin, just pressing these cards and following these templates.

And the deal is like, because my paranoia is so bad, right? I never want these people to see my face. And so we had this garage where I would just work in this garage, air conditioned. I had this fucking credit card lab, dude. And he would deal with the tweakers in the front. I never want to deal with the merchandise.

I never want to deal with the tweakers. I never want to deal with none of those people. I just want to sit back here, get high, and press cards. Okay. So you get good at it? Dude, I was fucking good at it. Like, these were super high quality. Okay.

So what could you turn a red target gift card into? So they weren't, dude, you can buy a Visa vanilla card with the Visa stamps on it. It's even easier. It's even easier. Because now that formula is the same. Those visa stamps are like the bird and the thing or the master card and the thing. Those are there. Right.

Okay. And you're, you've bought. The so on the dark web people have stolen credit card legitimate Yes Cards from people and they're selling them to whoever yes on the market on the open market right you buy those yeah, that's where the that's where the charge is Ultimately going to yes okay got to that person's credit card that's right okay this is a clone of right right okay And you buy a hundred for six bucks a hundred credit card numbers for six bucks and 70% of them work but they're not worth

like maybe you get a fucking killer card every now and then with like a $20,000 limit and you know like none of it was used yet but these people that are selling these bins that's what they're called

like the dumps and the bins right people that are selling these dumps of bins they're not selling them one time they're selling the same number fucking a million times if they can so we're in a race so even though it works you're going to burn the card in like one charge because there's 50 other people across the country

using the same card. And plus whoever got their card stolen is going to realize it and call up and cancel. You would be surprised at how long some of these people don't catch it. How often you, this was in 2016. How often do you check your credit card statements today? Yeah, I don't. I'm going to go check mine after this interview. But yeah, I don't until the end of the month. Right. So we've got a little bit of time. Yeah. Right. And it's always like, okay, right towards the end of the month, we're like, fuck it. We're just going to kick it until the first. Because everybody's about to check. You know? So. And it would be, and it wasn't even the first. It was like different credit cards. Their billing cycles are different. Like their RCM is different, right? The revenue cycle management is different. And so, you know, maybe it was like the first of the month for MasterCards. And then it was like the sixth of the month for American Express. And then, like, the sixth of the month for American Express. And then, like, like maybe it was on the 20th for Visa, right? But how fast could you press a card?

So, man, I can't remember this, but it was like, let me think. I could press like 12 cards in a couple hours. Holy fuck. You know, and it's a template. Like, I know, like, I'm going to do all the master cards, right? So you just, you set the embossing machine so that when you put the card in, it puts it right on the right spot. And I just mark my embossing machine.

This is a master card name. this is the master card expiration date this is the master you know this is the visa one and so i slapped the blank card in there and i just start pressing it boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and i fucked up a lot and like when i first started it might have taken an hour to make a card but by the time by the time i was done i think i could get it in like 20 minutes make a card in 20 minutes and i'm just that's all i'm doing and i'm smoking meth and i'm slamming heroin and i'm not sleeping for three days at a time okay so you've pressed 12 cards yeah Then it goes to your buddy Chris, and then how does he get the money out of it?

So we have teams of tweakers. And here's the deal. You can burn us once, right? Like you could take these cards and you can never come back. But guess what? You can never come back. And we're paying you pretty fucking good. So we have teams of tweakers going all over Southern California, dude.

And it's like, you come, you get the card, we send you out, you come back with the merchandise. right and so keep in mind like I have previous experience with getting rid of merchandise online and this whole thing that just happened so it's just like dude it's like all your skill sets are coming together you found your thing yeah and when you start committing what'd you go to prison for weed okay when you start committing crimes you never think you're going to get caught some at some point you realize like I might get caught but when you start doing when I started pressing cards I never thought that it would go on as long or that it become as big or that I would ever get caught. That's just not what you think.

And so. And how much do they spend? Do you go until the card burns out? Yes. Okay. And what were you telling these tweakers to buy, like to kind of stay low? Was it just small increments? Electronic.

So this is what we would do. We would test the card with a Google, like on Google Play Store. You could do like one cent transactions. So we would test the card to make sure it was good. So every card that we sent with somebody, we knew it worked. Right? It wasn't like they had to sit there and be like, oh, is this going to work? So it was like, use the card one time in each store and then go when by the time you get done

with your 10 cards, I think we did five and 10. We would send you with five. And then if you come back, we'd give you 10 and we'd send you out. And you could take as long as you wanted, right? But the whole idea was you can come back and we don't want to get caught. We don't want you to get caught. So don't go out there and do like some just dumb shit. Like don't be on some cowboy shit.

Do this smart, right? Like. And they were going to big box stores like electronics stores. Best Buy Walmart targets. Costco was like a big one for electronics and TVs. They were getting TVs from like from Costco. Let's see. Dude, this guy, he was doing this thing where he would buy, um, furniture.

So he did this like, it was just this one guy. He was, uh, had previously, like, like in a previous life before he started tweaking was like had something to do with furniture. So he would buy the furniture with the like we would get high value cards. And we would give him to him. It'd be like a $20,000 limit, $10,000 limit. And he would go buy furniture full price, right? And then he would sell it back to his buddies for like half price.

And he would then get 20% of whatever he returned to us. So we were like, if you leave with 20 grand worth of cards, you're going to come back with like seven grand worth of cash, right? For us. That's what we, so dude, it was like, people would come up with these weird little things that they individually would do. And so we had like all these weird orchestrations going on. Like, that dude was doing this and this dude was doing that.

And they all, because the whole idea was like, let's make this last as long as possible, right? And like, you weren't allowed to do it if you were, like, if you told somebody that was a gang member that you were doing this, we'd cut you off immediately. If you ever brought a gang member to us to try to do this, done. Right? You got to be like a square that just does drugs. Right. And so yeah, dude, but dude, again, my paranoia.

Like, I got so fucking paranoid. How were you guys reselling the electronics? eBay. Online. But also, dude, this was when it wasn't offer up. It was what was the one that was before offer up? I can't remember. But it was like, whatever.

It was a version of that. It was the first version of like of that. Craigslist, I think, was still around. Yeah, yeah. Like, there was these marketplaces. And so, yeah, we'd sell them on everything that we possibly could. What was the scale of this? How many cards were you guys running through?

I mean, we would buy dumps of 100 cards at a time. We'd maybe buy 600 cards a day. 70% of them would be good. You buy 600 numbers a day. 600 different cards we'd buy. And dude, that's 100 bucks for the cards. Oh, my God. Yeah.

I mean, dude, it was like the, uh, you guys made millions out of this. No, the potential to make millions is there. Yeah, I would overhear stories from former tweakers usually about these level of, yeah, this level of fraud. I met these guys in the joint. They would break into people's houses, but they wouldn't take anything. Yeah.

They would just get the numbers. And then they would run from there. Yeah. So the potential to make millions is there, but not if you're a drug addict, not if you're an idiot Oh yeah, you're not keeping any of the money It's all going back to drugs But the value of what you're taking

The value of the theft is probably The retail value of all this shit is millions maybe Well, okay, we did this for months So maybe not millions, but dude, we're The amount of merchandise that we touched Was hundreds of thousands of dollars for sure Easily Mm-hmm

And, dude, we were, and I was doing dumb shit Like, I would end up buying stuff from stores that we had at the house just out of just stupidity, right? And so it was like, I didn't want to touch that because that's where our money was coming in from, but I was willing to pay full price for it just out of principle, right? Right. But it's like, I'm loyal. I'm not going to tell.

I would never steal from us, right? It's like, fucking rationalized. Idiot, dude. Yeah. Weren't you guys burning the tweakers are going in and they're buying so many cards? Like, would you have to send them out? Like, pretty soon you burn San Bernardino. Well, the deal was you can't do this in the city.

Okay. San Bernardino. San Bernardino, San Bernard and ghetto is so ghetto, dude. Like, the whole deal was like, you've got to leave. You got to leave town. And L.A. is a short drive away. Riverside is a short drive. San Diego is a short drive away.

I mean, Cabazon Mall is just a short drive away. Like, if you can get away with that, fine. But, like, you can't do it in the valley. right but you got to go right i mean san uh ontario mills is out there and like dude there's like some good shit to like hit and if you're not hitting the same place like every day you can get away with this for a decent amount of time people did get popped or whatever but like we took care of people like we didn't want to get caught so it was like if you get caught we'll send you money we'll try to bail you out whatever right and but the the car

Cards were, in my opinion, dude, they were really high quality, right? And it turned to the, like, it got to the point where we started just selling the cards to people. Like, we'll give you a card for $100. And then I started hearing rumors that there were gangs going around and kidnapping card makers and, like, chaining them to bathtubs and shit and, like, just make him. And my paranoia starts kicking in. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, dude, this is for real. And I'm like, in the garage. and I just kept having this vision of like

somebody coming and kicking in the door to the garage like the side door and like I'm gonna be kidnapped and like butt naked chain to this fucking sink just making cards making cards and I'm like oh fuck like and I had this vision of being just like with this giant beard butt naked and skinny

with these cards dude they'd probably feed you though they need you alive yeah but other than that it's like no showers nothing dude so my paranoia plus the cops and plus dude, look where I'm at, dude. Like, this isn't, this for sure can't last. Plus, we just, it started the fuck out of this dude. Who knows what he's going to do?

Also, something happened with that dude, with the Amazon dude, where like one of his partners fled to the Philippines. And like, so that shit hit the fan. I'm like, I got to get the fuck out of here. So literally one day I was so paranoid. I was just like, I'm out of here. And I left everything and went back to San Diego. And that wasn't even the end of my carting.

That was just the end of that. Because I came back to San Diego and started doing it on like a very small scale. Well, it's one of those things I think where when you learn how to do it, it's a quick hustle. Very quick. Right. If you have the equipment, dude, which I crashed the car with the equipment in it, totaled it. And I couldn't like take the shit with me. There's like cops there and shit.

you know and it's like fuck so I like left that equipment there and that came to a very short stop you know but and then we were trying to like get to the car but it was like in a police impound and I was like how the fuck am I gonna get this shit out of there and then you know

the equipment like skimmers and like reader writers are cheap but like an embossing machine they're like a few hundred bucks but a hot foil press like a quality hot foil press could be like 14 15 16 like two grand sometimes right and so i started hooking up with this dude from inglewood family bloods and um started running it with him and then i was carding in l.a for a little bit and like

but dude my paranoia dude is like i get so fucking paranoid uh might have been what kept you alive yeah your your tweak your tweak your tweaker instinct is like it's part of your human instinct Yeah, but remember that I got that paranoid when I was just using opiates too. Right? So it's just, it's probably a mental health thing mixed with drugs where like I get so unbelieve it, like debilitatingly paranoid where I can, I stop functioning. You know, like there's some people like they're alcoholics. They like stop functioning as an like as a person. My paranoia would be that bad where I just stopped functioning.

So yeah, go back to San Diego. And this was one of the family. members that it was only 10 years that I didn't talk to him because I connected with it. Right. And so I call my grandpa and I'm like, dude, I'm coming back to San Diego. Can I stay with you? I'm going to get clean. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

And he's like, grandson, I love you. He just recently passed, rest and peace. He was one of my like all-time heroes, like in person, not like some superhero hero. Like this was like a hero of mine, right? And so he lets me come. And guess who's living there? Your uncle? My uncle.

Damn, this motherfucker's still alive. Dude, he's still alive right now. Guess where he's living right now? At your parents' house? At my grandpa's. Oh, why? And my grandmas now, because my grandpa passed. Oh, no.

Is he clean? Yeah. Like dirty underwear. Right? Sure. Fuck. He's a lifer. He's, uh, you know what, though?

He's one of those old school tweakers. Like, he won't ever do. anything else. And so he'll probably live till he's, you know, 85 years old. Wow. Just doing meth. Just doing meth and fucking people over. Damn. Yeah. It's interesting you asked, right, is that like he went on to molest cousins and other siblings of mine too. And I just, I never knew. Yeah. And I'll talk about that later. But I get back to my grandparents house. And I like kick and I'm good and I get this job. And dude, I love working. Right. Like I'm a hard worker. I'm dedicated. I'm disciplined. And when I'm in the flow of like a

hard job, dude, I fucking love it. And dude. So this is October. And I start hanging Christmas lights on houses in Rancho, you know where Rancho Santa Fe is? La Jolla, Rancho Santa Fe is. La Jano. R.P.U. RPQ, Poway. We got some contracts with like some sky rises downtown. Dude, I fucking love it. And I'm working 12 hours a day, sometimes like 16, and we're doing a couple houses a day. And the deal is he's going to give me 120 bucks in cash every day, whether it's four hours

or 12 hours, and it's seven days a week. And it's for the season. So it's basically the middle of October is when I started. So I think they started like the beginning of October. of October hanging Christmas lights all the way until Christmas Day, basically. And then... You know how they say, like, we need illegal Mexican immigrants to, like, do the work Americans don't want to do?

Like, no, we just need more tweakers, dude. Tweakers do Mexican labor. For sure. Yeah, find white tweakers are Mexicans. For sure. Right? Yeah. It's the same energy.

It's funny. One white tweaker equals one Mexican. Okay, so that house that I was living in in Escondito, we had white neighbors that were tweakers, and we would see them at like two or three in the morning, mowing their lawn at two or three in the morning with scissors and headlamps, like four of them out there, dude, just cutting their grass with scissors, dude, it was so funny. But that dude's manager, the Christmas, shout out to Ron, but his manager and me and like three of the other dudes, very obviously drug addicts, right? So shout out to you for second chances, but he's a second chance employer.

So this is like October. And then for from the day after Christmas for like a month and a half, we're just taking it all down and getting ready for next year. So this is like a good four months of solid work, right, that I've got in front of me. And I get clean and I'm clean for like a month and now I've got enough money. I'm buying a car. And now I've got a car. But now I've got all this money and I'm just working.

I'm not really doing anything else. And I'm back in San Diego. And I got all this money. Cash. So I'm like, oh, I just buy another car. I bought another car. Same difference. Dude.

So I bought another car and I gave my uncle the other car, which was a nice Impala, right? And I'm just fucking miserable still. I'm a drug addict. Dude, I don't want to be sober. And this is where I put them outside of a program. This is where I put the most time together sober that I ever did just by myself. 68 days. No drugs.

I was smoking weed, but no real drugs, right? And on day 68, I'm like, man, fuck this. And I go back downtown. Now I'm getting high. But dude, I'm working, right? And I show up to work every day. And I'm like getting high on these people's roofs and like slamming heroin and like smoking meth. And like up on these multimillion dollar mansions.

And I'm like, dude. But I hold it together for long enough to make it to Christmas. Right? Then Christmas happens. and I know I have about a month and a half of work ahead of me, and then I'm like, what am I going to do? So I'm hanging out downtown again, and now I'm not sleeping, and I'm doing drugs,

and I go downtown after work, it's maybe 7 o'clock at night, and I've got a car, though, and my friends, they're doing this thing where they're stealing sodas, I mean, energy drinks from grocery stores, carts full. And there's a liquor store in Logan Heights that'll buy 50% of the retail price. So they'll steal $1,000 worth of energy drinks and they'll get $500 for it, right? Well, keep in mind, I'm building my tolerance.

So there's $120 a day, that ain't cutting it anymore, right? And so now I'm looking for like other ways or like better deals and I'm buying more. And it's like, you've got to front me now. And now I'm like, very quickly turns into, I need to make more money. And so now I'm like, I've got a car. We could do this outside of these grocery stores that you guys are robbing every day. Right. And so now I'm getting off of work over here with 120 bucks in my pocket, go buy drugs, get high.

And now we're driving to East County. And now we're, and I've got the car, so I don't got to go in there. Right. And now it's like three or four of us, we're getting, like, our goal is to make $250 each. I drive around for a couple hours, get high. make a couple hundred extra bucks, right? They're doing all the work. It was great.

It was like fucking perfect, right? And so that starts happening. I stopped sleeping. And by the end of that month and a half, like I'm basically getting fired by this guy, right? But he's like, dude, also, like we're driving around in his work vans during the day. And I put it like a gram of heroin on the dashboard

and it knocked into the vent. And I took his front console apart. And I like, you know, being the drug addict that I am, I like convinced him of something. I don't even remember what. And, you know, like, by the time all the decorations are down, he's like, Matt, dude, you're a hard worker. You're great.

But dude, you got to clean your shit up. I was like, yeah, yeah, I know. He's like, did you destroy my car? Because I made up this lie, dude. I don't even remember what I told him. But he's like, come on. you could tell me, like, what happened? Like, no, dude, whatever lie I told him.

He was like, look, dude, you're a good worker. Like, what I do for the rest of the years, I have a landscaping business. Like, do you want a job? And I'm like, yeah, for sure. Well, I kind of burned that bridge. Like, I stopped showing up, whatever. And so now I'm just downtown.

I live in San Marcos, which is 35 miles from downtown. But now my grandpa thinks I'm going to work. I'm just going downtown to go steal energy drinks. right and uh i just do but now we're doing it all day and now i'm telling them like you guys know that you can steal different shit and make more money right like there's these uh cell phone stores that have hundreds of dollars like maybe 30 or 40 different headphones on these display cases you just run in grab four of them and now we're making more money with less risk so anyway like now we're doing all kinds of different shit and um um

that kind of runs its course, right? And very quickly, not very quickly, but very quickly the realization happens that it's like, I gotta get off this shit. Or I've got to like lower my habit. Somehow the amount of money that I'm making isn't sustainable, which means the amount of drugs that I'm getting isn't gonna stay,

which means that at some point, I'm gonna end up sick. So I'm like, how am I gonna do? So I'm like, ah, I'll get on methadone. Okay? So I'm on methadone. I'm going to this methadone clinic. My grandpa thinks I'm working. And but I'm still slimming heroin and I'm sick all the time.

Methadone and heroin to use daily is a fucking terrible idea. It's a very miserable idea. You get so sick from the methadone all the time. And now you're just using heroin to try to not be sick. And they're different drugs. So they're kind of different in the sickness. I mean, dude, it was just, it was fucking terrible. And I'm spending so much money on the meth.

because I don't have insurance. And I realize this drive's got to stop. And then me and my best friend, we get this idea, like we're just going to get clean. Right. And so now I've got him at my grandparents' house and we're fucking kicking in their living room. And that lasted for like a day.

And we were like, fuck it, dude. We just got to figure something else out. And me and him get into a fight. Actually, that's another really crazy story. but. So at what point did you meet you're now, why? I'm getting there right now.

So the methadone gets expensive and the methadone clinic tells me like, and I'm telling them, like, I'm not going to be able to keep paying for this. They were like, if you get on Medicaid, which is the California version of Medi-Cal, I mean, Medi-Cal, if you get on Medi-Cal, not only will they pay for this,

but they will write you a check for every cent that you've spent. I'm like, okay. So I go to the welfare office on like a Wednesday. And it was May 17th of 2017. And I'm in there and I see this girl, right? This attractive redhead, blue eyes, kind of thick, right? Just sexy, right?

I'm like, huh, and we keep making eye contact. But she's like giving me dirty looks. And I'm like, okay, I want to talk to this girl. and they call me and I come back out and she's gone. Right? So I'm like, fuck it, whatever. I start leaving and it's glass, right? Like the walls are glass.

So I leave, I turn the corner and I look back inside and she's walking out now. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, how am I going to talk to her? I'm in front of her. You know, like, how am I going to do this out looking like a weirdo? So I get out of the door and it's raining. I'm like, yes. And there's this overhang, right?

and I stop at the curb, and then she walks out and she stops at the curb too. And I'm like, hey, do you smoke weed? She's like, why? Because you don't have any? Like, no. Like, dude, like, already with the attitude, right? But I'm like, no, dude, I'm just seeing if you want to smoke.

She's like, you got weed? I was like, yeah, I was like, she was like, okay. So we get in her car. No, I was like, do you have a car? She was like, why, you don't have a car? I was like, no, I got a car, but I want to roll this and have you drive. she's like oh okay

and uh and so we get in the car we smoke a couple of blunts we go get Taco Bell we fuck and the rest was history dude I moved in with her the next day and I destroyed her life systematically ever since

yeah yeah wow and that's how you guys met in a welfare office they found love in a hopeless place dude found love in a hopeless place well at least you knew she didn't discriminate against short or poor guys you know what I mean Yeah, well, I found out way later she loved short, rich guys.

There you go. Specifically Asians, right? All of those people that we extorted were Asian. Oh, wow. That was another part of the equation was that, like, they were Vietnamese, and I'm Vietnamese. Wow. And so that guy that gave me seven grand the first day that I met him, we connected on that. That's fucking, oh, man, this girl's got some, for sure.

Some screws loose. Okay, so at the same time that you met her or she, was extorting these former clients. She had gotten clean. Okay. Right. She got sent to rehab. She got in clean. She was a heroin addict too? She was a pill addict, dude. Pills and alcohol. And she has like a vivitrol shot so she can't drink. And she's on like suboxin so she, or sublocade. So she can't use. And she's just literally counting the days. She's like seven more days and I can fucking get high. Six more days. Five more. Tomorrow's the day. Right. And I meet her. at like day 24.

She had literally just gotten back. And she was getting on Medi-Cal because she already had the prescriptions from these doctors, right? So she's like preparing. She's like, I got to get on some kind of insurance to get it paid because her parents kicked her off their insurance because they got the bill. And, dude, when they got the bill, it was like thousands of prescriptions, opiates, benzos, uppers, down.

Dude, it was just like over the years and they like figured it out, dude. her mom actually ended up calling the medical board and making reports against the anesthesiologist. So he was like on probation at one point two. For prescribing all that. Yeah, dude, for sure. And not just it was like, I don't know if I should say that,

but like there were other people that she could prove that he had written prescriptions for. And so yeah, it was a mess. But by the time I got a hold of her, not got with her, right? I got a hold of her. She was clean, just got back, planning on relapsing, but all these people were still supporting her.

Because she wasn't like a streetwalker. She's what they call it an escort, right? And she makes that very clear all the time. I wasn't a prostitute. I was an escort. She was online, but she had a pimp. And she would help. She was like the Galane Maxwell of their operation, right?

She would find other girls and help them and help him pimp them, really, is what it was. Right, right. And so by the time I got back with her, her and the Pimp had broken up, and it was just her, but she had these clients. And, you know, we meet each other and immediately get involved. I don't know anything about her. I didn't even know that she was a prostitute, right? Like, and so the story kind of unfolds and I get more of it. And she's like, oh, yeah, I used to do this. I'm like, oh, all right, whatever. Like, and then she starts, as the weeks go on, she like starts telling me the details and it's like oh yeah this doctor uh he lives pretty close to here actually he uh he's an anesthesiologist and his thing was he would like get me let me dress up

in scrubs and then he would take me to the hospital and um he would put me under and rate me i'm like what at the hospital she was like yeah so it was his fantasy it was his fetish so he he was fucked up too he had gotten into like a really bad car accident and had TV had like a dent in his head and shit. And like he fundamentally changed as a person after that and became a sociopath. And like, dude, just was into some fucking way out shit. And so, yeah, that was like his kink now, right?

But this dude's married with kids, like a very well accomplished, board certified, taught at a university. Like, a lot to lose. Lot to lose. So did you guys, I mean, I know you told the story at the beginning of, you know, forcing him to help. you extort other people. Would you guys get like

electronic like video footage of him doing any of these things just as like solid blackmail? Yeah. Like everything's on the phone. Yeah. I mean, the reality is if he,

if he would have really thought it through, he didn't have to pay us anything. I wasn't gonna fucking do shit to this dude. Well, that's a crime. What he's doing is a crime, but what you guys are also doing is a big crime. Well,

I know he's not gonna report me because I'm gonna tell on him. Like as far as he's known, I would, I probably still wouldn't have even told on him if he told on me. Maybe, I don't know, dude. Like, remember, he's a cheater. So he's a piece of shit, right? Yeah.

Well, I think he's, I don't even know if that's the worst thing he does. Well, he rape women? So. Or they know what he's doing. They know that they're about to get put under. Mutually beneficial. It's a raped fantasy. Right.

And so, but on paper, this is a rapist. On pay, and also, there are special charges for doctors who do this, right? Because it's like abuse of a position of power. trust, it multiplies the magnitude of the charge, right? And so, but when I was with Matt, I just kept telling him the story. He was like, oh, no, but you're a good guy, right? Because this dude's a piece of shit, because he's a cheater, right? Like, it was this whole thing. You got to watch the episode, but, but yeah, you got to remember, though, this guy is a cheater. Yes, he's doing all this other stuff. He knows his wife's watching. That's why he says that.

For sure. That's why he says that. Actually, it was her that told him about this other guy. guy that like, oh, wait, that dude's a piece of shit because he's a cheater. So it carries on. But in my head, this is just a piece of shit. I didn't even factor in the cheating. So the charge that, so now we're moving up to where you catch the case that eventually gets you sober. Yeah. And that was the bank robbery. Yeah. So how did they catch up with you? You went in there. You wrote a bang and ass note. Good handwriting. Very strategic. Yeah, you got you got about seven grand, you said.

$8,600. $8,600 bucks. Yeah, how'd they catch up with you? So, Fetnell hit the streets in 2019. Well, guess what else hit the streets in 2019? COVID. And guess what happened in COVID is they shut everything down. The police weren't fucking with people.

Businesses were shutting down, and I was homeless. So I had like free reign of the city. And in San Diego, it was like a fucking ghost town. And guess what I was. else was happening at the same time, BLM riots, like all that political shit was going on. And so the last person that people were looking at was me, right? And I was just running wild, dude, committing all kinds of crazy crimes. Dude, I was selling drugs like it was, again, like it was going out of style and I didn't care who you were. I got caught selling drugs to

cops again. I got caught with weapons. And I found this loophole. And I don't remember exactly when or how or why I even said this the first time. But I get arrested. and I get to the jail and I tell the jail that I swallowed drugs. So they send me to the hospital. But during COVID, guess who's in the hospitals? COVID patients. And guess who's not going into that hospital?

Cops. So they would drop me off and they would say, you're going to have a warrant. We'll catch you next time. And dude, I did this fucking over and over and over and over. And in my head,

my mental stability was like slipping already, just the amount of drugs and like, again, the paranoia, but then also, like, this thing was going on around me, and I didn't really understand it. And this is on the heels of, like, Trump's first election, and now it's Biden, and now the world is literally in turmoil.

Yeah. I remember it well. L.A. was the same way. For sure. It was just, it was crime everywhere. Dude. You'd have to literally be getting shot for the cops to come.

And then it's going to be, they're not showing up right now. They'll come when they can. Yeah. And so I Dude I found this loophole And that's what it was In my head I was like I'll never get a rat

And in my head COVID's never going away Everybody's probably gonna die Like just the world's coming to an end So I'm just gonna run this to the dirt As hard as I can And now we're crossing drugs Right And we get involved with like

Just Like when you look at me When I look at myself And when I tell my story I'm like How the fuck did I end up in these situations, dude. I'm just like a piece of shit homeless drug addict.

And I'm dealing with people that it's like, I'll put it this way. I was able to ask people why they were putting fentanyl in the meth. Like the people who were manufacturing and selling it in large quantities. I was like comfortable enough with these people to be like, why are you guys putting fentanyl in the meth? Was that on the other side, the Mexico side?

On the Mexico side, yeah. Who did you click up with down there? Like who were your connects? Like, as funny as it sounds, it was still white people. But in Tijuana. In Tijuana. That's crazy. Go into that.

How did you meet him and where were they cooking up meth that the cartels aren't going to know about? No. So they were a cartel business. So they were in a plaza. So they belonged to somebody. Right. But the best person to do business with Americans is an American. Of course.

And so they're positioning probably just piece of shit drug addicts. to be their front down there. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so talk about that a little bit more. So, yeah, so I don't even have to see my customers. I have a middleman who's stationed here in Mexico that can deal with the American customers.

Yep. Wild. Yeah, and remember, it's like I'm intricately like I'm a card carrying member of the underworld. Like, I know people. I've been to prison in California. I've done a lot of time. I know not just people from my, like where I'm from, but people from over there and over there and now up there too.

And it's like, I got people in San Bernardino and like out in the desert all over San Diego, Orange County. Oh, yeah, you're well connected yourself. Yeah. So you saw them in Mexico putting fentanyl into meth. Yeah. They were getting ready. Yeah, yeah.

So this house that is this white boy Kenny. That was his name, White Boy Kenny. We would go to his pad and dude, it was the gnarliest pad. We would go to this house. And it was like in the outskirts of town, right? So we would like get picked up at the border or we would meet them in La Coila. You've been there, right? Like we'd meet them down there.

They'd pick us up. They'd take us to the outskirts of town. And it's this fortress, dude. And we would get to the gate. People would put the dogs away, right? They would come out. They would get us. They would bring us into the house.

They would shut the door. And there was metal panels all over the door. And they would bolt the door shut again from the inside. so that nobody could come in and then let the dogs back out, right? Like, this was a fortress. And there's pounds and kilos, kilos, like pounds and pounds and pounds and pounds

of heroin and coke and meth. And they got like, dude, it's just an immense amount of, I mean, dude, the house, have you ever smelled like a lot of drugs? Oh, you smelled a lot of weed. Yeah, but not drugs like that. That's fine.

You know how when you have a lot of weed in a house, the house smells like weed? Well, dude, this house, smelled like coke and heroin. Stunk like coke and hair. You've done coke. Yeah. Yeah, it smells like dirty socks almost. Dude, so like white out and like must. Everybody's got their own yeah. That's what dirty laundry, dirty socks for sure. But yeah, must, musk and white out. That's a great one. Yeah, white out. Yeah. So I only came up with the white out thing because this house smelled like white out and vinegar. Yep. From the heroin. So it smelled like white out and vinegar.

That's what this house smelled like. And like, dude, I'm a graffiti artist, so I do graffiti. And dude, there's graffiti all over this house. So now I'm chilling at this house doing graffiti. And these are the white guys in this house with all this work. Yes. And but, dude, these cartel members are there constantly. And we get comfortable with these dudes.

And what we're doing is like it gets to the point where I know enough people on the other side that are clean enough to walk across the border and back. right and um i'm orchestrating people coming down and like packing it back across oh so you're like orchestrating the mulling yeah and so like i get to chill at the house now instead of just buying it and bringing it across myself now we're connecting with people and like bringing people down and sending them back up and like and how are you sending them across they're hooping everything just who just girls are the best dude because they got them in the front and they got a front trunk and a back trunk and dude Some of these girls can put so... And we're doing bindles.

Like, we're doing one-ounce bindles, right? Because you can put... Dude, one girl, it was like 17 ounces of meth. Inside her. Upper goose. Upper ass. Whoa. Yeah, upper ass.

17 ounces of meth. And dude, like, if you think about it, it's like, you get 10 of these people. And maybe it's like a quarter pound, right? Maybe this person can only do four ounces. Maybe this person can only... But if you... can do this three times a week, you've just moved pounds across. And people are going all the time.

It's hundreds of people a week. Hundreds of thousands a week. Yeah. It's one of the busiest border crossings in the world. I think the busiest one is in Juarez and then the second busiest one. I've heard that San Diego is the busiest. So it might be. So the, no, the foot traffic, no, but the car traffic, yes.

Yeah, right, right. So these people are all going on foot. Yes. Okay. They're definitely going on foot because Americans, so. Tijuana and San Diego effectively are the same city, right? Like Tijuana's South San Diego. Yeah, for sure.

And like, I'm sure you saw this. I mean, maybe you didn't, but like you could cross the Mexican border. You can go down there with no ID. And you can come back with just an ID. You need your passport now. If you're in a, if anybody does. So supposedly you needed it back then too. But I had a California ID and I mean, I was just like, dude, I'm an American citizen.

I got my ID. And they'd just be like, but you weren't dirty. Did you bring shit back yourself? Oh, I would sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would bring, like, my drugs back, you know. Probably they're so overwhelmed, I believe it. I mean, I've got back in, back into the U.S. with just an ID. But they were like, go.

Like, I wouldn't want to have dope on me. Well, I mean, it was up us. So it wasn't like, and dude, I mean, they know that Americans are going down there to do drugs. They know we're coming back with it, too. but I should show you my booking picture. I say I look like a caveman, but I do the caveman a disservice, like a major disrespect by saying,

I look fucking bad. You're grimy. To say the least, dude. Like I said, it's disrespectful to the caveman to say I look like caveman. And you sent your girlfriend, your now wife. All the time.

And she'd have ounces of heroin in her. Yes. Yeah, all the time. Because like, we could get paid in cash or dope. And cash is no good to me if I have dope. So I'm like, and dope is cash. Yeah. Right?

So it's like instead of going back across with a bunch of cash, I'm going to go back across because I'm not going to hoop a bunch of money. But that is going to raise flags. So I'll just go back with like four or five thousand dollars worth of heroin. No, I'm not four. It was like, it was 800 an ounce of heroin. She would have four out of a couple's, you know, like a few thousand dollars. with the heroin. And this was black tar? Yeah. Okay. So, and you said you saw dealers now sprinkling fentanyl into

their meth batches. They are rocking it up with fentanyl in it. Okay. Yeah, like, they're not recutting it with fentanyl. They're batching it with fentanyl. Okay. So what were the percentages? Like, here's a, here's a pound of heroin and you've got, say, it's a pound of fentanyl. Okay. Are they, is it one to one? No, hell no. No, of course not. That would kill a fucking elephant. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But they were doing that, right? They had black and then they had, they called it fire. And fire had, it was like 10% fentanyl.

Okay. Right? Because everybody started doing fentanyl and now they needed, they wanted to do heroin, but they needed it to be as effective as fentanyl. Right. So the tolerance, right? So people wouldn't buy it if it didn't have fent kick. Right, right.

So now they had fire and they had black. But they started putting it in meth. And people would call it sleepy dope. Right? Have you heard this? I did hear it recently when I was in Baltimore, and I couldn't believe it. I'm like, fentanyl, the opioid, the mother of all opioids is going into this crazy upper. Yeah.

And the reason why is because it causes a chemical. Look, you could smoke meth for 50 years straight. And if you go to sleep and wake up two days later, there is no withdrawal. Okay. But if there's fentanyl in it, dude, some of those fentanyl kicks can last for weeks. and so now you've got a chemical hook to something that historically never had a chemical hook so they're just creating even bigger meth addicts, right?

And getting them even more hooked. Getting them even more hooked. But now also, there was like this weird transition that happened where you couldn't get heroin anymore. You had to be connected to get heroin. But also, people were stopping using meth and they're just using fentanyl now. So fentanyl, I mean, meth cells went massively down.

Wow. Yeah. That's changed. It's come back. Oh, I'm sure. And real heroin's come back because there's been so much. Deaths and just destruction from that. Yeah.

And there's, and Mexico even is stopping a lot of the chemicals that come from China. So it gets harder to make good fentanyl. Well, so even the cartels, like even in 2020, they started to, there was like that murmur of like, we're killing all of our customers. We can't do this anymore. And then like, by the time I got busted, there were, there were actually like, some of, the organizations down there were like, no more fentanyl, if we catch you selling it, we're going to kill you. So, I mean, like, that was just so they could monopolize the fentanyl market. But it's okay. Really?

Yeah, because I asked about that to like people like connected. And they were like, no, that's just so the chapitos can take the whole market. Right. So if we catch you, we're going to kill you unless you're already working for us. Okay. So we were being told, we were being told that it was because they were killing their customers. Yeah, I mean, they never tell you the truth down there, but the truth is... It's a really good fucking point. They never tell you the truth. The truth is it just became... It's become just a separate business, because now people are just going straight to the Fent.

First drug ever going straight to Fent, yeah. Exactly. So it's, there's meth, there's heroin, and then there's Fent. And then there's some markets where all of the other drugs get mixed with the Fent. Yeah. Like the shit that's going on in Kensington. Right, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's a whole disgusting mess of everything and Trank and all that bulls.

Zylozine, trank, fentanyl. And it's all in meth too. Yeah. And like people are, yeah, it's a fucking. But so you never did it with fentanyl in it. You never actually tried. I preferred not to. Like I said, my last arrest, I tested dirty for fentanyl. Right. But it wasn't the, the fentanyl high and the heroin high are so massively different. How so? So heroin is very euphoric. and very calm, right? Like, just really chill.

Fentanyl is like, there's no euphoria, and it knocks you just knocks you the fuck out, and it's very intense. So you never took a pinch actually smuggling dope across the border. You never got busted for that. Yes. So I did, but it wasn't for smuggling. It was for those warrants popped up.

Okay, so I got, I crossed, spent a couple days down there, and I tried to cross back. And I had like two ounces of heroin in my, in my ass. And they were like, uh, and, and this happens all the time, right? You go to secondary when you walk all the time. And they just strip search you and pat you down. What are you doing over there? Do they strip search you at secondary?

Like you're in jail? When you walk? Yeah, when you, I mean, not butt naked, but like they will strip you down. Right. Search your shoes, search your clothes. They don't put you in a radar, though? So I never got put on. a radar, but that scanner, that scanner specifically doesn't really work for drugs.

Oh, okay. It does, but not really, you know, like, it's a hit or miss. What do they look? What are the scanners looking for? Weapons? So you sit on it, right? Have you seen them? No. So it's a, it's an x-ray machine that it scans from the bottom, right? But think about, like, what it has to see through. Right. Right. And so I know, it's those things you sit on when you go into prison to make sure that you, yeah, I have sat on one of those.

Yeah. They're looking for, it's looking for metal. Metal and then, so that's what it's really for is from metal. But they can kind of see shapes in there, right? And it's like,

what is that? Like, in jails it's great because they can say, hey, that's a foreign object. But at the border, it's like, what is that?

I don't know. Maybe it's lower intestine. Right. Fucking, I don't know, maybe he's got a shit. Yeah, I got a gnarly shit.

Yeah, dude, I haven't shit for three days. Leave me alone. And those border guards are like, dude, they're just, especially back then, especially back COVID times.

They're like, bro, just go. Get out of here. I remember the first time I crossed during COVID, dude, it was,

it was like being in a dream, dude, because like you walk out of America into Mexico. It's like walking out of a, imagine like walking out of an empty church into a circus. Mm-hmm.

That's what it was like. It's like walking back in time 20 years. Yeah. I mean, dude, that's literally what felt. I just remember like, everything felt so fucked up and quiet and, like, isolated in America. And then I walk over there and it's like kids juggling for selling gum and like. It's freedom. Yeah. So what, at what point do you end up robbing the bank that leads to the end, I guess? Like, is this right after the smuggling shit? Yeah. I mean, it's during all that, right? Like, I'm robbing. So I'm stealing money that's the cartels money. And the problem is I'm on so much Xanax.

I mean, I'm blacking out. I mean, I literally call Xanax time traveling technology now. It is. It is, right? And your girlfriend got you on that probably, right? No, no, no, no. I've been using it for a long time. But I got her off of it because of how much I was using.

She thought I was lying to her for a year straight, dude. Like, I would, money would disappear. I would disappear. I'd get caught with this chick. Like, dude, it would be like, and I'd be like, I don't remember fucking anything. And she'd be like, you were so convincing. Like, you could talk to her about it today.

Like, he was so convincing and it would just piss me the fuck off because I know he, like, believed it. But she didn't believe it until, like, shit got really bad. And now I'm like, she's like, there's no way he would actually do that. You know, like, they're either lying or he's doing this and really doesn't remember.

And then when she came to, terms with that, she realized like, oh, dude, this whole year. Like, you were stealing money like, like you would, they would front you drugs and then you just wouldn't pay them back? Money, money would be collected and I was orchestrating, right? So you were running money back to Mexico? We were bringing money back and bringing drugs across. How much were you bringing back at a time? Dude, it was like 10,000, 20,000. It wasn't like a shitload of money, right? Like, we're a bunch of drug addicts trying to sell drugs and like, I don't think it ever even got to 20,000. I, you know, it was like, it was definitely under 20,000.

thousand at a time. And that would be like if we didn't go back for like four days or something and they're still sending people and I'm sending people like, you know, it's, millionaires have been made on Skid Row. Yeah. In L.A. and in San Diego. Yeah. Just small, just one one ounce at a time. It might take a while. But yeah, there's millions that are that are collected every month from those open air tracts. Think about like Six in San Pedro in L.A. Highly densely populated, but we're talking about a city block. Okay? And maybe it wraps around sometimes or maybe it gets really out of control and it's on a couple streets or whatever. We're talking about a block, a city block that's generating

tens and tens of millions a year, maybe hundreds of millions a year. And just three and five dollar pops. Dude, boom, boom, boom, boom, rocks. Yep. Rocks and balloons. Yeah. All day. San Diego Skid, have you been to 17th Street? So it's not as big, but everybody from San Diego County goes there. Right. Right. So, yeah, it isn't just homeless people, but it's like, dude, all the politicians. There were, like, homeless crackheads that had regular Johns that were local politicians that would pick them up on 17th Street.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Cops. Yep. Dude, all kinds of people, right? Mm-hmm. But millions are made on 17th Street. Commercial 21st.

Like, dude, millions. In, like, imperial. So San Diego, I was like. a homeless area and a skid row, right? Like, where they all kind of, they aren't as cool with it in San Diego as they are in L.A., right? I was there recently. They're not uncool with it,

because they're all over. You know what I mean? They group them together better. Yeah. But, you know, there's a lot. It's dirty. Yeah, well, San Diego will, they do these sweeps every Monday and like a couple times a week

where it's like, you have to leave the area. Everything has to go. The whole street has to clear. Right. I don't know if they're doing that in L.A. Right? So, like, San Diego, it's, like, way less cool.

I see. Right. And so it's like... So you're stealing money and you're just a fucking mess. And I don't know. And it'd be like, I'd see somebody, they'd be like, hey, dude, black top's looking for you. Like, why?

Dude, you stole like five grand from him. Like, what? And I'd call him. Dude, you're a fucking dead man, blah, blah, blah. You know who's money. Okay, I can't go over there. Yeah. Right. And then, you know, like, I had money wrapped up in all this. And money was owed to me. And I'm like, and I'm so whacked out, dude. I just don't remember any of this shit. And, uh, and so she's like, she finds out she's pregnant, right? She's sick of me. Like, and I'm fucking, I'm a mess. And she's sick of me. And she tells me, she's like, when she tells me she's pregnant, she's like, I'm leaving you. I'm pregnant and I'm leaving you. Because you're going to get killed. Like, legitimately, like, you are going to.

to get killed and I'm probably going to get killed if I'm with you. So I'm like, how could you? I'm like flabbergasted and I'm like heartbroken, right? Like, what do you mean you're leaving me? Like, after all the shit that we've been through and we've been through some like crazy shit in Mexico too or like, she's like an attractive redheaded white girl. And like, we just been through some crazy shit. And, and I'm like, how can't, how could you? And so that was Thanksgiving, that was the 26th of November of 2020. And dude, the next month, I literally spiral out of control. Now, I'm robbing intentionally. Plus on the shit that I forgot, I'm robbing everybody that I can. And I could feel like the wall is closing in. And the only thing that I give a

fuck about is getting her attention and she's getting farther and farther away. And so I'm like, how am I going to get her attention? Mind you, I told you about like my friends, the robberies, like all this shit. She'd been telling me for years at this point, don't do it. And so I'm like, this will for sure get her attention. So my dumb ass, I think I'm so smart. I'm like, I'm going to rob this bank and then I'm going to tell her I robbed the bank. I could have just not robbed the bank and told her I robbed the bank.

She, like, verifiably, how is she going to find out? You know, like, and so, yeah, dude, I go rob this bank and I call her and I tell her, like, I robbed this bank. and she hangs up on me, of course. And like, but so that was the, that was the 26th of December, the day after Christmas, I robbed this bank. I get busted two or three days later on the 28th of December. And this is my plan.

This is how genius I was. I think I just watched too many good movies, you know. This is my plan. One of my buddies, she brings a pound of heroin out to Oklahoma every month, like clockwork. and so she's getting ready to go on this run and I'm like hey take me out there I got all these warrants I'm gonna let this shit tie down

let me go with you to Oklahoma leave me there for a month let this shit die down and then I'm gonna come back I'm gonna get documents made I'm gonna come back I'm gonna move to Mexico where this is how genius I am at the time

the people that want to kill me are in Mexico where they can get away with it for sure so this is my idea I'm gonna go to Mexico and I'm gonna cross I'm going to rob banks on this side and then across every day or whenever I rob a bank

and then when I finally when the cops catch up to me I'm just going to shoot it out with the cops and this is my plan right so I'm like okay I'm going out there with you she's like okay

whatever I'll take you out there it was her friend that could do the documents right so we'll get the documents made we'll come pick you up in a month and we'll take you to Mexico so I'm like okay

but you've got to take me to the weed shop. The weed shops in San Diego are amazing. But take me to a weed shop so I'm going to buy a pound of weed for me to smoke on while I'm out there. There's going to be heroin. I don't need that. I got a little bit of money. Take me to buy a pound. Go out there, blah, blah, blah.

And she's like, okay, so we get in the car. She turns left out of her parking lot. She was supposed to turn right. So I'm like, hey, you turn the wrong way. So she flips a U-turn. across double yellow lines.

And guess who's right behind us? The cops. Right? So they pull her over. And one thing leads to another. I try to, I give this cop a hard time for hours before I give him my real name.

So then he's like, oh, this is why you, whatever, like gave me such a hard time. And I'm like, he's like, hey, dude, by the way, this little, I swallowed drugs thing that you do when you get to, because this is all documented, right? He's like this little I swallow drugs thing that you do.

When you get to the jail, it's not going to work this time. I was like, whatever. So we get to the jail. We get to pre-screening, which is medical, and then you get to booking, right? So before you even get into the real jail, you go to medical. That's like one door. You go through one door. You talk to this person in a window.

And I tell her, like, I swallow drugs. She's like, you got to take him to the hospital. He's like, no, no, no, no. He does this. He doesn't really swallow drugs. It's like this thing that he gets relieved. she's like you got to get them you got to get them to sign this paper so takes me to the hospital the the paper that they are signing clears you that they confirmed that there's nothing in there

right so they can't actually confirm it through these x-rays right that there's nothing there right so the cop is like i'm waiting for you to get i'm waiting for you to get this x-ray so and mind you i've never been x-rayed before right they typically just drop me off and then they get this x-ray And then I leave. The cops leave. They drop me off. I leave, right? And so they x-ray me, but they can't confirm that it.

The doctor can't sign it saying that it's not there because they don't know if it's not there. Right. So go back to the jail. Tell them again. It sends me back. And this cop is getting more and more mad. So the second time I come out and he's like, hey, dude, check it out. I just cleared it with my watch commander.

Because in my head, I'm like, it's been like seven hours that this dude's been with me. There's no way that he's, like, going to put in overtime to book me, to just book me, you know? And he was like, I cleared it. My watch commander, he doesn't care how long it takes. We're booking you today. So anyway, I finally get booked. Give this dude such a fucking hard time. And I get booked.

I go to my cell. And, dude, I fucking crash. Right? Like I said, dude, I tested dirty for everything under the sun. I crash for like two days. And this is during COVID. So I don't know. And in my head, I'm like, fuck it, whatever, I'll just get bailed out.

I don't know that it's COVID programming where you're not coming out every day. There is no day room. They can't let you out for dayroom. Like, everybody's supposed to be social distancing and all this shit. So they're letting us out every other day for 15 minutes to shower. And so if you can get on the phone, you can get on the phone. I crash. I wake up.

It's like two days later. I missed my gate call, right? Like, I missed my unlock. And I'm like, hey, dude, when's my next unlock? They're like, tomorrow. I'm like, okay. So now it's like three days. I'm like, I'm going to wait.

I'm going to stay awake so that I can get to this phone. So I get to the phone finally. And I call the girl. I'm like, dude, you got to bail me out. She's all fuck you and hangs up. I'm like, who? Who can I call? So I like, call a bail bond.

Call another one. Call another one. Call all pro. Like, hey, you still owe us money. Hang up. Day full. They're like, handy, you got a medical. Like, all right.

So I get in the elevator, and I've been in this jail, I don't know how many times, and I know, like, I'm supposed to go downstairs. So I'm going upstairs, and I'm like, huh, this is weird. And this is all done by camera. So there's nobody with me, right? They tell me to go to the elevator. I get in the elevator.

They send me upstairs, and I get out, and there's a cop there. And I look around, and I'm like, I've never seen this part of the jail. It's hallways. It's like a regular office building. And I'm like, oh, fuck. dude, it's got to be the feds.

So they walk me down the hallway and sure enough, dude, it's interview rooms. I'm like, fuck. And you've been interviewed before. So it's like they normally like to do this. Like they'll put you in a room for two hours thing. No. They put me in this room.

15 minutes goes by and eight people funnel into this room. They're all in suits and one deputy. Right? So all these suits are standing up and these two people sit in front of me and it's this old, you could tell, just like withered, like,

experienced agent and this attractive young agent, right? He's from major crimes. She's from the anti-terrorist task force. And I'm like, anti-terrorist task force, like, in my head, I'm going, what the fuck is going on? Like, what is this? And so, like, they're all from different departments. Feds, though. Huh?

Are they feds? They're all feds. Okay. They're all feds, right? So a couple of them are from major crimes. Like, this person and her partner, this guy and her, his partner, and then, like, a couple other people. And I'm just like, in my head, I'm going, anti-terrorist group. And he starts pulling these papers out and putting pictures face down. And he's like, so now he's talking to me and he's like,

oh, blah, Mr. Handy. Are you Mr. Handy? And whatever, gets to the point. He's all, do you recognize this guy? And it's a picture of me, right? But it's not like in the bank or anything. It's just a picture of me. And I'm like, nope. And then it's, bam, he flips the next one. It's a picture of me in the bank. But I'm wearing a mask, right? Like, during COVID, you couldn't go into a bank without a mask. Right. Right. So I was like, they just want me to do this, you know, the perfect timing.

And so it's a picture of me and a mask. And I'm like, nope, don't recognize him. And then the last picture, it's a picture of me underneath a bridge where I had just robbed the bank, now I'm miles away and I'm taking my mask off finally, but I'm miles and miles away. And I'm like, nope, and he's all Mr. Handy. We can play these games. but you got away with less than 10 grand.

We're not even interested in that. We just want to know where the bomb is. And I was like, oh, that's why the anti-terrorist task force was there. And I was like, fuck. And so I do like these quick calculations and I'm like, and he's explaining this to me. He's like, the feds don't even want to prosecute this

if there was no bomb. Like we want the state to prosecute this. We don't want to waste the money. And I'm doing this math in my head. I'm like, this could get really fucked up. Plus, if I go do like a bunch of time in the feds, I'm doing 85, 95%, so I'm like,

but if I admit to this stuff, then it's on paper that I admitted to it. And I'm like, you know what? That is definitely, in my head, I'm like, that's definitely me. And that's definitely me. They have to know that that was me then. And you can look at this all up on the,

I found this all out later on the FBI website. But so I tell them like, okay, yes, it's me. And there was no bomb. I said I have a bomb in my backpack. I had no backpack on. And they were like, so you don't know how to make bombs. You've never, like, tried to put one together. It was just a threat.

Like, there was no bomb, right? They're recording this whole thing. I'm like, there was no bomb. I've never made a bomb. I don't know how to make a bomb. I don't know what the ingredients even are. Like, you know, I've never made a bomb. I don't know where to buy glycerin.

You know, like, they're like, okay. Well, and this is like the shortest interview I ever did with the cops. Maybe it was like 25, 30 minutes, right? Like between sit down and like, okay, thank you, Mr. Handy, see you later. And dude, that was it. That was how, so what happened was the cop that I gave that fucking hard time to. I mean, it literally took him like eight, ten hours to book me. He was looking through all the APBs and saw my picture.

And he called the feds the next day and was like, hey, I think I arrested your guy. He's in the county. And so they came like two days later after they found out that I was there. They ran their little investigation. Dude, these feds are good at what they do. So what did they charge you with? So bank robbery in California is 211. It's strong arm robbery with a bank enhancement.

So it's like 211G or H or something. So how did you beat this? Okay, so my first prison term, I met a dude. And he was there for a gang-related murder. Okay. And he had beaten two previously, two gang-related murders by going to this program. and him and I, we played Pinochle together and we got close or whatever

and we're telling each other the stories so he told me he was like, dude, if your back's ever against the wall like really ever, not these little five, whatever, like if your back's really ever against the wall, write to this program and if they accept you, the courts will defer your sentence. Like they are that well known and revered

and like they have that reputation. They've been around since the 70s. Like a drug program. A drug program. But their bread and butter is people who are fighting life sentences or football numbers, right? Or people who are coming out of federal life sentences

where they reprogram them, right? It's a behavioral modification therapeutic community in L.A. And the minimum is two years. Okay? So, you know, the court proceedings go on. It's all slow because of the wheels of justice turn, but they turned slowly. But during COVID, they turned even slower, dude.

Like, to get my first offer, it was six weeks before I got my first offer. right normally you get arraigned in 32 hours it took two weeks to get arraigned and so it was just like this fucking long process which was a blessing in the end because i had all this time to be able to assess like what's going on you know but dude i wrote to the program the second he tells me 33 years i'm like holy shit like okay like crazy like but but am i going to go do this time mind you i've got this little girl on the way right this little baby i don't i didn't know who was a girl at the time But I got this little baby on the way.

And I'm like, I've got to write Delancey Street. If any, there was, if any time that I could, it's now, right? So. The Lancy Street is what it's called. Delancey Street. Okay. And that's based out of L.A. So if you're in California and you're somehow listening to this face in football numbers.

Dude, so actually, just writing in. Delancey Street was started in San Francisco. There's San Francisco, L.A., New York, South Carolina, North Carolina, New Mexico. They do this all around the country. Wow. And so. What do they take you based on? What are the criteria, I guess?

There's no, like, set criteria, right? If you're an addict, you can go, they have walk-ins. Like, it's called sitting on the bench, right? You can go sit on the bench and get in. You could just walk in, right? And you don't even have to be a drug addict. You could just have life problems, right? Like, you could just be maladaptive.

Like, you could have never done drugs before in your life. But how do they, how does the, and the judge usually takes their recommendation? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He doesn't need to do prison time. He needs to be rehabilitated. So if I get accepted into Delancey Street, that's like gold, right? It's a golden ticket to get out of whatever you were doing.

But this judge told me, he was like, I mean, and we kept pushing the court dates and pushing the court dates and Mr. Handy, you know if there's going to come a time where if you don't get in there. And it's during COVID. So it was just a pain in the ass to get mail and the correspondence. And they have to come and interview you. and then you have to do your probation interviews and you have to like,

a bunch of stars have to align, right? But if you get in and you get the acceptance letter and take that to the judge, they put the whole court case on hold. And like, you will take a, they will give you a deal. Wow.

And so this is what happens. I fight this case with this dude, Andre, whatever, public defender. This dude's a fucking dumb truck. And he's like, 33 years, dude, this is such a good deal. You should take it.

And I'm like, dude, I'm going, to Delancey Street. I'm not taking this fucking deal. I'm doubling my lifetime in prison. Dude, you're fucking smoking drugs. I'm a drug addict. I know you're high. Right. Like, fuck that. I'm getting to Delancy Street. Delusionally, like, just trying to manifest this, that I'm going to get into Delancey Street. And then I get my acceptance letter and I go to my court date and it's a different lawyer. And I've tried reaching out to this woman, Chelsea Childs, every podcast I go on to. If you ever see this, dude, fucking right back. Dude, I've sent emails and called the office.

She will not talk to me. And I don't know why. But Chelsea Childs, San Diego, public defender, and she goes, Mr. Handy, I've been looking at your case. This is pretty crazy. But it's not that crazy. And I have a really good relationship with the prosecutor. Give me something.

And I know you got into to Delancey Street. So give me like a reasonable deal that they would accept and I'll try to go get it for you. I'm like, okay, I'll take two strikes, suspend two strikes, give me 10 years suspended, and I'll do two years at Delancey Street. She's like, that sounds fair. So she comes, she goes, comes, because the whole thing is like, if you suspend this strike and I fuck this up, I'm going to get the 10 years no matter what, but you could strike me out. So now I'm facing a 25 to life, right? So it's either I'm going to get my life straight or I'm going to go do the rest of my life in prison. You're forcing yourself, basically.

For sure. Yeah. Like burn the boats, right? Yep. So she comes back like 20 minutes later. She's like, they only want one thing different. I was like, what is it? She's all, they want you there for three years.

I was like, sign it right now. So I signed it. And at sentencing, the judge was like, I've been on the, Mr. Handy, I've been on the bench for 20 years. And I've sent many people to Delancey Street. And I haven't seen many complete it. So good luck. And he goes, I'm going to give you this opportunity to save your life.

But if you don't take this opportunity, I'm going to lock you up for the rest of your life. If I ever see you back in here, I will lock you up for the rest of your life. I was like, okay, thank you. And he was like, I will see you back here in three years for resentencing. Like, okay, right?

Because it's a suspended sentence. Yeah. And the deal was if for the, for the, for the, I'm taking these two. So I'm going to take these two strikes. I'm going to plead guilty to these two. You're going to defer these sentences. You're going to suspend this sentence

so that if I fuck this up, you can hit me with these two. Right? So you've got to, I've got to go back for resentencing so that they can get everything on paper correct. And so, he's like, I'll see you in three years for resentencing. And, and dude, I went and I did what I had to do. You spent three years at this facility?

Yeah. And could you run away if you wanted? Yeah. It's not a prison. It's not a jail. It's not a lockdown facility. But here's the thing. If you walk out the front door, they call it a split tea.

If you walk out of that front door, you can leave all you want. Dude, fucking go ahead. But if you leave, you are not coming back in. Right? So they're going to find you eventually and then you're done. Done. Right? So, yeah, dude.

So you got out recently, 2024. 2023, I finished. Let me see. October of 2023. So I had to go back to court for some kind of resentencing or I had to go deal with something. And I got put in front of my judge. And he's like, fuck, Mr. Handy.

You've got four months left. And you're graduating the, they do semi-annual graduations. And you graduate next month. Like, yes, he's all, if you make it to graduation, your obligations are fulfilled to the courts. So they gave me four months off. Wow. Yeah. No prison time.

No prison time. That's incredible. I can't believe everybody doesn't try to get into that. I mean, they can't take everybody. They get inundated with, so because of COVID, I was the first person that they allowed to have Delancey Street. come in interview back in the prisons. Wow. Yeah.

So, I mean, I did. A lot of things aligned, right? I mean, dude, I can't even describe to you the life that I live today. Tell us what you do and where we can find you. Yeah. So one thing led to another. I relapsed after three and a half years of sobriety. That relapse 11 days, nothing.

No arrest. No consequence is nothing. That relapse did more for me in my life than anything else. So now I've got a podcast called My Last Reefat. relapse because of it. And that last relapse really put a lot, crystallized a lot of my reality. And I realized I got to do something. Like, and I'm third, at the time I'm 34, right? I'm 37 now. Yeah, 34. And I was like, I'm going to get into the treatment industry. So now I own a drug rehab. I have an outpatient center in Houston. And I just bought a 250 bed hospital in, and

channel view, which is in Houston, and I'm opening a residential. And we're creating a different model around, basically it's value-based healthcare where it's like, we owe you, right? You're coming to us for a service, right? But you as the client become our product that we consume, right? So we make money off your failure, right? There is no money in healing. We know this, right? There's no money in healing. There's money in alleviating symptoms and creating return customers. And this is what the treatment industry does on average. So I'm working with this doctor and like some people that are way fucking smarter than me. We got some PhDs writing white papers on this model. And we're about to donate a year's worth of beds to the state and the county to try to prove this model. Right. And so yeah,

I've got like a bunch of I paid taxes for the first time in my life this year and I'm 37. So the life that I live today is vastly different, right? I've got a five-year-old, that baby, and I've got a nine-month-old, a little redhead girl. I always tell them, like, I'm going to get a paternity test for this one. My five-year-old looks just like me, and the nine-month-old looks nothing like me. At least the genes passed on from someone.

You know what I mean? Yeah, it should have been mine, though. So we'll put the link into the description. Check his podcast out. Check his rehab clinic out. You want to shout that out? Yeah, yeah. So my last relapse on YouTube, that's basically the same thing on all socials, Instagram.

Matthew Handy, my last relapse, and the rehab is Harmony Grove Behavioral Health in Houston, Texas. Amazing. Congratulations, man. That was sobriety well earned. For sure. Recovery well earned. Recovery well earned. Yeah, yeah.

So between 13 and when you finally went to jail for the last time, you only had 60. days of sobriety consecutively. Yep. That's fucking wild. It's amazing. You're alive, dude. Congratulations. Also, I have no cavities. Yeah. That's the huge. That's the biggest part.

It's like my biggest accomplishment other than my kids is like I kept my teeth. All right, you guys, Matthew Handy, Matt Handy, check his podcast out. Link will be in the description for all of his socials. We will see you next time. Take care. Peace.