The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Inside The Mexican Mafia: Ex 'La Eme' Soldier Spills Secrets Of America's Most RUTHLESS Prison Gang

Episode Date: August 25, 2024

Chris Arevalos came home to Southern Indiana after his service in the military feeling directionless. He quickly fell into the vicious cycle of opioid addiction that plagued his hometown. Now in the dark world of drugs, he began a life criminal activity and before long was sentenced to federal prison time. Chris was sent to Big Sandy, one of the most notorious prisons in the federal system. He was immediately recruited by La Eme-- The Mexican Mafia. He describes life inside La Eme and his experiences as a member. Chris was fortunate enough to get out of the gang and turn his life around. This is the story of Chris overcoming addiction, surviving prison gang life, and his story of redemption by not letting his mistakes define his future. This episode is #sponsored by the following brands: ROCKET MONEY Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to https://www.rocketmoney.com/connect BLUECHEW Visit https://bluechew.com/ and try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code MITCHELL at checkout, just pay $5 shipping! Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the time, it was the most dangerous federal prison in America, man. The Mexican mafia was trying to establish control and power, and they did. So when I get there, they read my paperwork, he said, the mafia is going to pick him up. He's like, you need a minute to think about it? I said, no, he's like, good, because you ain't got a minute. These people are experts of identifying weakness or a little crack in your armor, you know, and then you might go astray, and we can't have that, man. They'll kill you in a heartbeat.

Chris Aravelos grew up in a small town in rural Indiana and was raised in extreme poverty, His mother and father were both migrant laborers. After coming home from serving a stint in the military, Chris found his Indiana community ravaged by oxy cotton addiction in the early 2000s. This was the beginning of the opioid crisis. Chris soon became an addict himself and was nearly killed by his substance abuse. He managed to kick the habit and became a dealer instead and started trafficking large quantities of oxies from Mexico

up to Indiana and throughout the Midwest. His operation was getting huge when he got busted and got a five-year-old. sentence in the feds. His first stop was at USP Sandy, Big Sandy as it's known. It's easily one of the most violent federal prisons in the country. At that time, killings were happening on a daily basis, and the gangs were literally running the prison. Chris, who is half Latino, was recruited by La Eme, the Mexican Mafia. La M.A. is widely acknowledged to be the largest organized crime gang in the American federal prison system. They are ruthless. Chris was soon running dope and cigarettes for the gang, and somehow managed to become friends with the top.

pop dog, a shot caller for the entire La M.A. organization at Big Sandy. Chris gives fascinating insight into how the structure of La M.A. works and how unbelievably organized and disciplined they are. He has stories from Big Sandy that made me drenched in sweat during the interview, so be prepared. He walks through his struggles of overcoming addiction, how he found meaning and identity within La M. and describes his attempt to leave the gang and the conflicting loyalties he felt towards his shot caller, as well as his family on the outside. Chris made it out alive, and today is working for a Fortune 500 company

in his home state of Indiana, leaving the criminal life behind and beating his addiction. And for a crazy twist at the end, check out the Patreon episode with Chris, patreon.com slash the Connect show. Finally, someone who ran with the ranks of the Mexican mafia and lived to tell about it. This is a first on this podcast,

and one of my favorite episodes. This is going to be a Hall of Famer. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Chris Aravelos right here in The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. The reputation alone throughout the federal prison system is supreme. I was willing to do whatever to whoever it was, man. I was wanting to be next in line. Okay, in the morning, we got your first little thing. Here's the shank.

Here I come, boy, first mission loaded down. I felt something. And I wanted to feel more. And that's when I wanted to make the hit on some love. That's when I see the lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on. And then I parked the car, hopped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shank, it's like six inches. And he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this. He was the reason I made it out of that place alive. Well, I'm happy to have you here. You know, you've got a real unique background. You're the first of your kind here on the connect and people are about to see why. Chris Aravelos, thank you for coming on.

That's an honor to be here. You're from Southern Indiana? Yes, Scott County, Indiana. And that's where that accent comes from. Yes, the Texas of the North, Indiana. I don't even want to call it. It's like the Arkansas of the north, dude. Indiana is a fucking hillbilly state. It is, man. Cornfield Mania. Yeah. Home of the Ku Klux Klan. But anyways, look, that was history. Yes. You're from Austin, Indiana, tiny little town. 4,500 people. Oh, Jesus. One red light, man.

Wow. What did your parents do? My dad, he was initially a migrant worker from Texas. And my mother, she was a farm girl as well. So they both worked in the fields growing up, man. No education. Wow. Poverty.

Rule poverty. There's a difference, Johnny Mitchell, between inner city poverty. Those people have help. You know, there's places for help. Us out there, we don't have no help, man. There's no government assistance. No, we wouldn't take it if you wanted it. At least my family wouldn't.

And your father's side is the Latino? Yes, Mexican. His mother was pure Mexican. Okay. My mother, she's from England, my mother. Wow. So what did you, what was childhood like? Oh, man, it was an average rural poverty.

So you worked in the fields? Yeah, my mother and father did. What did you do? Did you help them? My mother was dead set on me going to school, man. Every day she put me on that school bus with a breakfast full stomach. She said, look, you know, this is something me and your father never had a chance to do going to school and we want you to at least complete high school. So I made that, I made that promise.

You did? And then you went to the Marines? Yes, sir. I joined the Marine Corps right after high school, right out of high school. I got sent to Paras Island boot camp. And Camp was in North Carolina was my permanent duty station. Okay. Did you see, did you go overseas at all? No. Only to a 29 Palm, California, once the year of the desert out here. Yikes. Yes. That's the Indiana of California. The middle of nowhere, nothing, exactly. You can smell the mess. cooking over there. Now, was that a good experience, though? Did you feel like you grew up through the Marines that gave you discipline and, you know, a sharp mind? You're no, you're no dummy. Oh, thank you. I can tell. Thank you, sir. What was, what do you think it did for you?

Well, like you say, you know, expand on mine because up to that point coming out of those cornfields in Indiana, you know, I didn't have much knowledge of anything, really any type of world's going on besides the rural country. So I was able to get in there, you know, I studied, the Marine Corps Institute, you know, basically it was online, but through the mail with booklets, you know, so I'd done that for two years. I learned a lot, terrorism, awareness, basic weapon training and everything like that. But then you go back, you get out, and you go back to your little Austin, Indiana farm town. What year is that? That's in 2000. You went back in 2000. And you come home to an opioid crisis. Yes. It described that. Well, it was a

nationwide, I didn't understand how serious it was. And then they said Austin was the, um, was ground zero for the, uh, open. Yeah, yeah. And what, what had happened, Johnny was the doctors where they were coming to, um, to, to, uh, eastern Kentucky targeting southern Indiana, Eastern Kentucky, going to those doctors and having pushed them oxy scripts, man. And then, and it hit Southern Indiana. Those doctors kept pushing them and pharmacies too, you know, they were getting on board with it. We shut a couple, uh, Dr. Stevens and Henryville, Indiana, we shut him down. This other lady, she died overdose, but I would send her in there.

He would be writing them, you know, he started writing so many. He fell in love with her and then the Fed shut him down. But, yeah, I come home to that, man, you know, everybody that I knew in the hotel was doing oxies, man. Everybody, and they were hooked on them. And they were just like everywhere. Yeah, sure. I remember reading headlines from Indiana specifically about, you know, the ravages of

oxy and then heroin. Yes. And there was like an HIV outbreak. That's the largest HIV outbreak in the world per capita, even worse than sub-Saharanica. Now, you know you hear about the news over there in sub-Sahara Africa. It's really terrible over there. But Austin per capita, we had the worst one, man. Because sharing needles?

Yeah, sharing needles. That one needle they found, Johnny, I read it in the newspaper. It said that they put on a microscope. It had been used over 250 times, man. That one, a rough estimate of that one. So when they heard that, it was former Vice President Pence that was the governor at the time. Right. He opened a needle exchange clinic specifically for Scott County right there in Austin to hand out those needles to curb the HIV outbreak, man.

It was running rampant. Brutal. Yes. Brutal. You can't even imagine in the modern era. Oh, they had people from all over. There's an HIV epidemic like this is 1982. Yes.

And especially a small town in the middle of nowhere, you know, 4,500 people. Now, did you get hooked? Yeah, I was hooked on them, too. I mean, I'm not going to bullshit you, Johnny. I'm a straight up dude, man, 100%. No matter what it makes me look like, I'm authentic and real, man. I was pushing that needle in my arm. Any chance I got, I would burn that oxy down and shoot it.

Man, it caused me heartbreak Johnny with my family, my son. I couldn't hold a job. Man, I was lost for about three years, man. I was hooked. And that was the move was to cook down oxy like its heroin? Yeah, yeah. What you would do was, you? was you would get you a pop can.

We were so poor up there. We'd hardly had spoons, you know, around. So we'd just get a pop can. They had these things called shooting galleries, Johnny, what it was. And it was like an empty house, man, or one person lived there. And in the back in the bedroom, you know, wherever on the cabinet, counter, whatever, there would be pop cans. You know, like a shooting gallery when you go to the fair of those things. Yeah.

But there's oxies, you know, on top of a residue where people, you know, people were sick. They would just come in off the street, man, and pour water in that. know, and get that rinse, you know, trying to help them get sick. But yeah, I was doing that, Johnny, man. I would sit there and burn that, put the heat to it, put however much water in that syringe, put the heat to it. And that coating would fall off, man, if you didn't want to break it up. That coating would fall off like gel.

You'd move it to the side and that pill would just dissolve into the water. And you stick your cotton or you draw it up, man. You hit it. Filthy. Yes. And that one needle was used over 250 times. I come in there, Johnny, there would be one needle. for the whole apartment or the house.

There might be seven or eight people. So how are these dirt poor hillbillies affording oxies when they can't afford needles? Most of them are on checks, social security checks, and that's how it got going from the doctor. Yeah. You know, grandma was getting lured tabs for 15 years, but all of a sudden, okay, let's push these oxies. Now grandma's getting oxies. Don't get the lor dabs here to try these oxies. Oh, they're lord tabs on steroids, man.

And we can shoot them, you know? That's right. Someone that made the money go up. You're getting 10 out of the lower types. You're getting 80 out of the oxy. Wow. Lives are being transformed for the good and bad. What good?

What good did oxy do? Some people are getting rich. I know houses. We've built houses. I've brought so many pills than people down there. Certain one of them, they still live in the same house, man. Really? Since the early 2000 when I put them on.

So this once cornfield hillbilly impoverished town has some new oxy wealth in it? Yes. Wow. Yes. Early back then, yes. Is that illegal selling it on the street or is that people setting up pharmacies and selling illegally? Oh, no, no, no. That's them going to the doctor getting their 90, 80 milligram tablets, which is $7,200 a month off that one script.

Right. Plus, they're getting their $2,000 Social Security checks. So they're making knocking on door of $10,000 a month. Now, we're talking $120 a year, man. Yeah, and out there, that's $10 million. Yes, yes. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio.

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only at Total Wine and More. Shop Total Wine and More in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. B-21. Now, did you have out-of-towners? Did you have people from... That's what I did, and I didn't like that very well.

And I had something for them whenever the out-of-towners come in. Because what I tried to do is the people that were pushing them for me, okay. But what about the people that was before me that you're out-of-towners come once to month? Oh, we won't deal with them no more. Okay, why is their truck parked over on the 15th the same day they get them? I know when they get their pills. I know where everybody gets their pills.

Oh, this and that or whatever. Okay, just sends somebody up there. Buster windows, flatten their tires, you know. After you do that, a couple months in a row, man, they won't come back. Okay, so did you get clean before you started pushing? Yes, what happened was one morning I was sitting in the apartment complex, a D-Heart drive. It's a little bitty like ghetto place, a ghetto in the rural area, compartment complex. And I looked around, Johnny, I had nothing but the couch I was sitting on.

I'd done trading my TV off, my radio. I'd done so to stove. Man, I think I had the refrigerator left. keep me something cold in there. But other than that, I was sleeping on the couch. And I was, I was sick. I was hooked on them. I kept looking at the person that had them, all these things, people going.

I said, my girl, hey, man, I'm getting out of here. You know, I said, I'm going to come back. I say, clean. And I said, I'm going to come back. And I'm going to get into it. And she's like, yeah, you know, that's good. And whatever. Look at you.

You weigh 100 pounds, man. You have abscess on your arms. You ain't doing shit. You know, I was sick, Johnny. And so I went to Louisville. Kentucky, man. I got clean, straightened up. And then I met a girl, and she was at the methadone clinic as well. So we got together. And I told her, hey, let's go see my family, you know, up in Indiana. We're straightened out. Everything's good. And I was showing her. I'm telling you what I'm

telling her. She's like, man, I know somebody that can get these oxies, man. You know, I used to strip at a club there in Louisville. And he can probably get them for us. So I started getting some off of him, you know, going down there and pushing him. He couldn't supply me enough, man. Right. You know, I was, I had them lined up on the two roads over. I'd be in the middle, you know, at my cousin's house, man, and then they would be lined up in a driveway all the way up down the road to two roads over. Wow. Like crack lines in the 80s. Wow. Like a crack line in the 80s in the inner city that was after the oxies, man. Hey guys, hope you're enjoying this episode. I want to take a quick break to explain how much I hate wasting money. It's true. I'm Scottish and I am as cheap as they

come. When I was in the game, the only thing I cared about was the money, so much so that it ended up being my downfall. These days, I may not be smuggling anymore, but I still take the money aspect of my job very seriously. So you can imagine how pissed I was when I found out that I had been paying for podcast hosting sites that I hadn't used in years, almost two years of monthly payments that I didn't even know about. With all that wasted money, I could have paid to get El Mio as a guest on this show, and frankly, still going to try. Thankfully, today's sponsor, Rocket Money stepped in and helped me out. I quickly signed up. The process was super easy, and I immediately was notified about my subscriptions. On that list, I saw two hosting sites I was paying for monthly. With the

click of a button, Rocket Money was able to cancel those subscriptions for me. See, that's key. I didn't even have to reach out to the companies. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. They can even help you set a budget for yourself. And the part I love the most is that when you sign up, they have a sliding scale of what you pay for their help. And whatever you choose, it doesn't affect the service you get. They really do care about your financial well-being. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions,

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RocketMoney.com slash connect. Get with them and save yourself money. All right, let's get back into the show. Now, how much were you buying him for in Kentucky and selling them for? He was taxing him, this guy in Louisville, the one to own a strip club. I think he was giving it to me for like 40, man. And I was, I was getting $40 a piece for the 40s. And I was getting them.

I was selling them for like 60. So I'm only making like 20. At this time, I'm piecing them out, you know. So I sell 100 day, you know, that's $2,000, man. $2,000 a day. Yeah, if I can get to them off. So you're rolling. Yes, at the time.

So I start doing that. He can't supply me enough. So she tells me, hey, I know another guy, Muslim, dude. I'm like, really? She's like, yeah. So I meet the little dude. I meet him. He goes to jail for some odd reason like a month later. So I meet the Connect, the ones bringing them from Detroit. So I get with him. He's like, well, you give him myself? 40s. I'm going to give him to you for 30. I'm like, hell, 10 extra dollars. That's okay, you know? So we get rolling, man, for about a good year. I'm taking them up there. I'm still banging him out one at a time by myself. And if he comes to

me, hey, man, you made me so much money. He's like, I'm going to get out and own the tire, of gas station I found in Meade County, Kentucky. I want you to get with me. And I'm like, man, you know, I'm not getting out. You see where I'm from. You see what I got. I said, you expect me to give that up for a fucking tire shop? I said, I knew you was going to say that, man.

He's like, just let me know if you ever need anything. I said, okay then. So I'm like, man, what are we going to do? We're screwed. You know, I got all these people in Austin, you know, I got everything wide open, just like I had always planned. But now I lost my connect. And she's like, I got the last two.

She's like, you got what can you do? Yeah. So I'm thinking, you know, I'm like, man, I think I know somebody can, I can get like a high power plug in Mexico, you know, if I get down there. She's like, I don't know about that. She said, you know, Mexico? And I'm like, she's like, you sure you want to do something like that? I'm like, look, you know, I said, what are we got coming in?

We ain't got nothing. I said, we have to do something. So we end up booking some tickets, man, down to San Diego. And we go down through Chula Bista, San Jacira, Old Tom Mesa, and cross route there at Tijuana, and that's when I got the plug. Okay, so how do you find the plug? Did you already know somebody down there? Somebody vouched for me, man.

Somebody I knew up here in the States that had been deported. They told me, hey, if you ever need something, man, here's my number. I'll be over here on the other side. Okay. So, hey, man, I still got the green light. He's like, yeah, come on, you know, whatever. We'll talk about when you come over. Yeah.

So I told him, and he tells me what to do. I'm crossing the border, man. There was a cop on a pay phone. and with long hair and he's looking at me and I'm thinking man I got popped before I even got started

you know he's looking at me and my girl and he's like hey he's like that right there points down and I point down

I see the guy my guy yeah he's like this yes he had a freaking cop well I don't know if he's real what kind of cop he had a cop uniform on Mexican cop uniform

and he's telling me go like this so I knew I'm like man he's all the way plugged in you know you're safe here yes this is like his backyard you know he's got a guy

got the cops working for him. So I go down there, hey, man, it's been a long time this and that. He's like, you know, what do you need? He's thinking I need meth and coke and all the other crap. And I'm like, no, I need pastillas. You know, two chinnasum balls a day, pastis. I need a bag of pills. You have a bag of pills.

And he's like, de qualis. And I say, you know, what kind he tells me? I say, oxy cotton, you know, and he's like, yeah, give me a minute. Come on, we're sitting down and chopping up. He sends some dude on a bike. He tells him the name, the dude on the bike takes off. He comes back like 20 minutes later, man, and with the big tub, and he's like, these right here, he pulls them out in there 80 milligrams, which goes for 80. I'm like, this is exactly what I want.

And I was like, now how much? He's like $10 a piece. Oh. No. No, you see the hair stand up a arm? It's about like it did down there 20 some years ago. So I started seeing all this stuff, new house, new cars, everything. So $30 to down to $10?

Yeah, I went from 40 to 30 all the way down to 10, man. Now, how much are you picking up at a time when you're down in Mexico? Well, it all depends how much money, you know, I have. I think I brought 20,000 with me that time, man. Okay, so that gets you at 10 a pill. See, that gets you 2,000 pills. Yeah. Okay, so.

Those go fast, man. So how do you, and do you just walk them back across the border? The first time, we did it. Okay, she brought the money over, my girl. She would bring the money over as well. But when we brought them back across, I told her, I'm like, look, you know, you have that passport because when you go through that line back then you throw that passport up they're not asking you nothing johnny they're just waving you on through you don't have that passport

man you got to go through a thousand questions you know what are you doing over here how long you're going to be here where are you coming from what do you do up there you know and i'm seeing this passport game and you're like all the way through and i told her that i'm like you'd probably be a whole lot easier if you'd done it that way and she's like yeah i'll do it man he just waved her on through she was taking her cross and bringing the money over wow so 2,000 for 80 bucks a shot, you turn over into 160, off a $20,000 investment. Yes, but here's the thing, no. I was not, I was not charging the 80.

Whenever I started doing this, I'm thinking volume, Johnny. Right. I said, hey, man, I can drop it. I can drop the price. Now I'm eliminating my competitors. You see what I'm saying? There's nobody going to be able to put up with a $50 oxycod when they're getting them. That's what they're paying retail.

Yeah. And they're charging 80. There's no way they're going to be able to compete with me, Johnny. So you're wholesale. Yes. I finally get wholesale. Finally get what I've been looking for. Now I'm taking to my homeboys and I'm giving them them for 60.

I'm getting them for 10. I'll make 50, man. I'm bringing them straight to you up 65 from Louisville. You ain't got to do nothing. Yeah. Be standing on Grandma's front porch. That's all you got to be doing. And they're sold.

2,000 pills is nothing. Oh, man. I would take 200 here, 200 there, 5 of my friends and they were gone. Two days tops, man. Two days tops. So how do you scale this thing? Now we got a problem. The problem is supply.

How do you? So, take us through it. Yes. What happened is I just get back from Mexico. Two days later, I ain't got nothing. Yeah. So I'm like, hey, you know, we got to figure something out. We need more transporters.

We need a micro smuggle. We need to do something. This little 2000 every other day is not going to work, man. We need some multitude of pills here. So I go back down here and I tell them what the problem is. You know, I'm like, how can we get these things over in bulk, man? They said, okay, here's what we're going to do. You let us know what airports you're going to.

And I said, more than likely it's going to be Louisville. They's like, what about Hartfield, Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia. What about Dollars, Washington, D.C.? I'm like, I've never been to those, you know, before. And here's what's going on. I've got these people come with me, my transponders, my transporters, I'm putting them on a plane. They're going to Louisville. You know, I start out with two.

Don't even know each other. They're from the same county, Scott County, Indiana, where I'm from. I give them the pills. I give her the pills. They're both on the same plane. They don't know nothing. I get them in the motel room. I tell them, take the taxi.

Here's the motel room you get to whenever you land at Louisville. So they get the pills. They're in a little airport. They get in the cab. They go to the motel room. When I get back, I'll come get you and pick you up and take you wherever. That's how I do the first two, man. And are you putting these mules on just passing airplanes?

Yeah, what happened? Yeah, I have regular commercial. In their bags? Yeah, yeah. From Mexico. Yes. Yes, because here's what, here's what I'll say his name. He's dead.

Puma, that's my friend. It wasn't my plug. He's dead. He told me, hey, man, we do have people at work in TSA. You know, I know, I know people from Sinaloa that's connected with the cartel. That's what I don't know. He knows. He's telling me this.

Yeah, Puma says, man, if you give me the date, approximate date and time, he's like, I can see if there's anybody up there. There happened to be somebody one time, man. Yes, some woman, a black lady. And I end up meeting her, man, because she's from the West End Louisville. And I lived in Louisville. Yeah. And I ended up meeting her, you know, because I remember her face and her name. So she knew me. And I told her girls, hey, I always use girls transporters. I just never trusted a guy. You know, I had a better relationship with the female. I could get a little bit closer to him, develop a little bit more trust. But this woman at the little airport, she was working for somebody over there, man. Yeah, because, Lisa.

He's like, look, if you can hang out two more days, she works on a Wednesday night, man. You know, and she already told us there's a flight coming from San Diego. If you can make that one, then you're good. And she'll just wave you through. Yes. Well, she didn't wave us through. She was behind the scanner where you put your thing in. She was the one in charge.

She had the walkie, talk, here, and everything. Like she was the main one over the little bit of group there, man. Being paid off. Yeah, she knew our pictures. Wow. They took pictures of us, man. This is like the plug plug. Yes.

Real. Yes. Because Puma, my friend, he was like, I know somebody, man, in Sinaloa that can help you. Wow. Yes. That goes deep. Yeah, man. And I'm thinking, if this dude knows somebody over there, man, because that's Sina Loa, I mean,

that's open to everything right there, man. So what, how many pills do you get back in the first couple of runs like this? Well, I'm trying to shoot for 10, $10,000. You know, that's what I was trying to shoot for. The first two have five a piece, man. Yeah. That's what I shot for. Okay.

And the first time I was a little bit short on the money, but he told me, he's like, ever since I've known you, and he's like, you haven't changed, man. He's like, it's been almost 15 years since I've seen you. He's like, nothing has changed about you, man. He's like, I don't see why I couldn't, you know, do what we were doing up there when I was in America. So your money was good. Yes. My word and my credit was good with him.

Do you think your military experience helped you in your smuggling operations? I know it did. I know it did because when I went to the Marine Corps Institute in Washington, D.C., I studied terrorism, awareness. And one thing I learned why the American government couldn't catch these terrorist cell because one of them, one cell never knew about the other cell. Say there's 10 cells. Each cell has specific instruction and orders. And they think that they're the only ones operating, which isn't true. There might be 10 more just like them. But you bust one, how much information can you get? Not much because they don't know anything except for their

cell. I wanted to use a cell method. That's what I call it. So each, Each group, but I use one person, you know, each one never knew about the other one. She could be sitting five seats back with 5,000 80s just like you have, but you don't know and she don't know either. Because you get caught, who are you with, whatever. I'm by myself. I swear he comes to the motel room in San Diego and he's never with anybody. I'm feeding him the same line of shit in the other motel room. And you're giving them a fake name and they don't know who you are.

They just know your face. That's it. So how do you scale this thing even further? Okay. I tell him. It's getting fun. It is, man. It's getting deep.

And then that's the lust of money, Johnny. You know, in anybody it makes money, man. They're lustful over and it doesn't matter, you know, the consequences. You just think you can't get caught. You just keep going. That's the mind frame I was in. Hey, I can't get caught. I'm with these people in Mexico over here on the other side.

They're powerful, man. They're plugged me in. You know, I think everything's going well. So what happens is I'm getting greedy. I want more and more and more. So I end up getting six, man. That's the most I've ever got. Well, I had six.

transporters, man. Okay. On the same plane? On the same plane. Holy shit. Yes. And I thought that was too dicey. I just thought it was dicey, man.

What if somebody strikes up a conversation about I'm, I enjoy hamburgers, but one in my hometown, Scottsburg, Indiana, we have a place called Hardee's. And then what if the woman's sitting next, you know, not too far back and I was like, that's awful strange. She's talking about Hardee's. I have a Hardee's, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

So whenever it got that far, that was a lot. one. I did like that. I just took it upon me and her from now on. Okay. So then how many pills do you bring it in a month? Well, just from that, I only did the six one time and then I went back down to me and her. And so I was probably going down there once a month, man. They had me, the feds had me crossing like 42 times in a three, two or three year period. So it averaged out about once a month I was going down here. I remember my lawyer told me because what they did whenever I was throwing up that ID card, they would input all my information and they would have a history log of every time the exact day and time I crossed, man. So what ended up happening was whenever they got me, they were going to take a certain

amount of oxies times every time. What was each trip? Each trip, yeah, towards the end, I was going to go on for 20, man. Wow. I went from 10, you know, I was going to try to double everything. Wow. So you're killing it by the end. Yeah. What do you, did you get out of Austin or are you still Well, I have been. Remember, I had them lined up in a driveway and then on the other sides of the road by myself. I'm like, man, my girlfriend said, you have all those friends. He's like, well, don't you get three or four of them that you trust and we can do our thing, you know, and then they can be doing whatever and you just go pick it up. And I'm like, you're right, man. So he's like, well, some of them don't have houses. They live with their mom or whatever. I say, here's what I'll do. I knew an old man up there and he rented houses. He was a slum lord, man. And I would just tell him, hey, let me get this house for a month. I'm going to pay cash. There ain't going to be no electric, no nothing, man. Just going to be a house, empty house like it is now. I paid him.

I would give them that empty house, my friend. They was sitting there all day, man, and then sell them pills. So now I give you a house to sell out of. I'm giving you pills up front. You know, you're living, man. You know, two years ago when we were down here riding bicycles that gather on the street, going there trying to plot how to rob a bag of chips out of the store. Yeah.

And now you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Look at the Cadillacs sitting in here. Wow. Your thing. Your grandma's got new breathing machine in there. You're getting your kids back. You got a good lawyer. Wow. Everything's happening for us. And you stayed off pills as you were. Yeah, I went to the methadone clinic. Right. So you didn't go back on them even even when you were trafficking. I tried it too. I tried one of them, man. I loaded a whole 80 up one day at once and shot on that methadone. I didn't feel nothing. So, you know, I'm like, well, that's good. You know, I have a good buzz. I won off the methadone and I can't be abused and spending my money anymore. So yeah, Johnny, so what's going on? Man, I'm not.

popping them by myself no more. I'm taking four or five of my friends. And there's a lot more people selling them, man, besides me, you know? And I'm like, look, man, I know you're probably give them 50, 60 for them. You're selling for 80. You know, I'm going to give them to you for 40, man. You know, and you sell them for 60. You're going to cut everybody out. Today's episode is sponsored by Blue Chew. If you want to be as hard as the summer day is long, then get yourself a Blue Chew and bring the summer heat. There's still time to get laid to winter. her back and Blue Chew is going to be the way you do that, all right? Blue Chew is a unique online service that delivers the same active ingredients as Viagra, Cialis, and Lovetra, but at a fraction

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So you're the only one with the Mexican plug in your area. Oh, yes, man. And that's the thing in life, And anybody's hair been in, if you don't have a Mexican plug, you don't have nothing. That's right. I'm serious. You might be a white dude and you got a plug. He's white. But, man, you need brown. Sure.

You need the brown plug. Because his plug, his plug going on down, it's a brown plug, Mexican plug at the end of the day. Did you ever, where were these oxies coming from in Mexico? The factory? No, they were coming from the pharmacy. Okay. And here's what happened. I was getting so many off of him.

He was telling me. it's going to be different next time you come. And I'm thinking, oh, shit, I don't want to ask too many questions. Next time I come, I'm telling him, hey, I'm at the spot. Okay, we're going to send a vehicle. They send a vehicle up there. It gives me this is the first time. Something odd.

He tells me something different. I don't know if they're going to fucking kill me or what's going on. I'm thinking I have not ever did anything to these people, man, you know. So I don't know why they would want to kill me. But they take me in the vehicle. Pull up to a pharmacy. There's a bunch of little brown people outside carrying boxes into the store. He said, come in.

I said, okay, I go in. And there's a lot of people. I'm like, they're not going to kill me at least. I got too many witnesses. So I'm like, I don't think witnesses have ever been a problem. Probably wouldn't matter to Mexico. I'm thinking the United States side, you know, they probably keep on carrying the boxes with the bloodstream going down the thing there. But I'm hoping they're not going to kill me.

So I'm seeing a movie's boxes. He's like, man, I bought a chain of pharmacy. Or, yeah, a chain, yeah, pharmacies. I was like, really? He's like, yeah, man, here's my business card. He gave me his business. and everything. He's like, I've had it for a couple weeks. He's like, he was in the process last time you came. I wanted to tell you, but it wasn't for sure. He's, I want to be for sure

about my business dealings before I divulge him. He said, this is mine. He said, I have three more just like them. So now he's retail and he's getting him from the wholesaler, the factory. Just like factory, just like any other pharmacy would. Yeah. So did you get a better price? Same price. So still at 10. You couldn't get him down anymore. No. And you know, I didn't even ask him. I didn't even ask him, man. I said, this man, you know, went. bought pharmacy, a chain of pharmacies. Well, three anyway. And did he have other customers like you?

Yeah, yeah, because look, whenever I was in the back getting them one time we were counting them out, okay, there was a wall here. You walk into the pharmacy. There's a register up here. There's a little cooler over here. You get your drinks, all kinds of little things here. And there was a little bitty plastic cat out square there, plexiglass, and there's a wall. And then you go back here like this.

And that's where I was at watching people come in. And we were counting them there and stuff. He's like, you want something to drink? you all right, anything? I'm like, yeah, everything's fine. He's like, how are you getting back to the border? I'm like, I don't know, you know, probably walk, you know, and take a cab because I got somebody.

They would come pick us up, man, take us all the way back into the line. Johnny, there's lines that one line says, you know, no vehicles. I was telling him, hey, man, you can't go this far. Oh, we went all the way to the fucking front, man. Wow. Yes, right there. And he jumps out, talks to the guard, I tell her, man. Something's going to happen, you know.

He's talking to the Border Patrol, man. The U.S. Border Patrol. Yes, he let us in. Wow. When the guy come in the car, I was thinking, man, go ahead and tell me I'm busted, you know, you're talking to the border patrol. No, he waved us on, man. We went all the way.

That is Sinaloa cartel activity. That's their, and that's what they're, why so many bodies are dropping in T.J. Because it's, it's Halisco and Sinaloa battling it out for those routes. That's what routes means. It's the people that you pay off. to get your shit in. And this is, you were,

you witnessed that. I was in the freaking video. I got cold hairs, or my hair standing up on arm like it was back then, man. Because I was, I started feeling, you know, not important,

but I'm like, you know, I feel kind of like obligated, you know, I kind of got a little bit of respect. Well, you're making this guy millions of dollars. Now he's got,

he's like a hedge. He told me, I'm like a hedge fund investor. Yeah. He's like, I deal in meth. I deal in heroin. I deal in marijuana.

He said, now, you've opened a door for another opportunity. He's diversified. He's diversified. Yes, he compared it being a hedge fund investor with dirt diversification. Yeah, they look at it like a business, Johnny. So tell us about how all the fun comes to an end.

Yes, unfortunately it did. What year was this? This was in 2010. Okay. Yeah, so what happened. So we're running for a while. Yeah. Heck, yeah, had a good little stretch, man.

So what happened was, I feel, you know, one time, one time I got, got pulled over for a window tent in Jefferson County, Kentucky. And he said, we got you this ticket, rolling paraphernalia window ticket. I said, okay, no problem. So I go, they send me a letter court day. I go there, they said, no, you're not on a docket. I go in there and talk to the lady. There's some big dude in there, man, big buff guy. He's like, you, Chris Orevelo? Say, yeah. And I'm like, who are you? And he's like, no, I just work here. And I'm telling that lady, what about my court day the other day? You're not on a docket. I'm like, got a thing in the mail. Nope. Okay. So now, when we fly out there, I tell her, hey, man, I said, I got a bad feeling, you know,

remember that guy? She's like, yeah, she's like, he just worked there because she went with my court, my girlfriend. She's like, don't worry. So we go to San Diego. I said, I want to go out there like on a little bitty just to run with nothing. Let's go like a vacation. She says, okay, we go out there, man. I wake up the next morning.

She's gone. You know, yeah, with the rental car and everything. So I got to walk crossrail and get something. Here she comes, man. Where are you been? She's got sand on her. Oh, I went to the beach. blah, okay. We fly back to Louisville a couple days later. He ain't got nothing. I ain't got nothing.

You said not to get nothing. Okay. Man, I'm grabbing my last check bag of check luggage. Chris Arevelos, yeah, turn around. A little bitty skinny dude, Nike windbreaker, gruff your hair, blue jeans, Nike shoes. FBI special agent, you're under arrest. I said, for what? He's like traffic violation. Louisville, Kentucky. Failure to appear. Failure to appear. I said, what is the feds doing arrest me on a FTA? man in Jefferson County County. He's like, come with me. I'll show you, but first put your hands behind your back. I was like, okay. And you're clean. You don't have nothing. I don't have nothing, you know, and I knew I had a feeling, man. So they take me back to the room as Homeland Security, Transportation, Safety Administration, Drug Enforcement Administration, Federal Bureau investigation,

and the IRS, man. And all sitting around me and I'm handcuffed. He's like, yeah, we finally got you, this one guy kept saying, who you with, who you with? I'm like, I'm not saying nothing. Well, the FBI, he grabs his laptop. He said, this is how I was tracking you. He said, see all this right here? He said, that's your debit card. He said, show me where I was eating, the clothes I bought.

Everything I did with that debit card had a date and time. And you just did a wire transaction for 60-some thousand from Fifth Third in Louisville to Wells Fargo in San Diego. He said, you ain't got a pen in your pocket. He said, this was two days ago. He said, where's the money? And I ain't saying nothing, man. I'm like, damn, they got everything on that. All my debit card transactions, man.

Using a debit card. I want, thank you. Johnny, where am I from, Johnny? Yeah, fair enough. Okay. You were in the Marines. Well, I mean, yeah, but they dragged a positive. You got an IQ of over 80 at least.

They were direct deposit on my stuff in the Marine Corps, man. All I did is had to train stuff. But I was thinking, that the man, or following me with my debit card. transactions. Man, I wasn't thinking nothing at Johnny, but they were, man. So that's what got them on me. Okay. We end up getting us for, uh, oh yeah, so what happens was my phone rings. Oh, I can't get to it. It's my girl. He's, hey, yeah. And it holds it to him. I said, man, they got me arrested. I said, I'm going to jail. What? They run out after 10 minutes later. Here she comes. Well, you ain't got a prescription of this. I heard a bunch of bottles at

the freaking desk. I was like, man, she's got a prescription of Xanax is from America. She's like, you ain't got prescriptions for these or these or these. Three different kinds pills back there, man. She never had a prescription for them. So now they're charging us with simple possession or trafficking in Jefferson County. It's a state charge to begin with first. Okay. Yeah, but it's not, it's not oxies they have. No, no. Zanax. Xanax is some methadone. I think she had like maybe 60 some oxies, man. She had like three different types of pills. So this is a humble. This is a shit case. When the feds want to get you, but they don't have much, they were on me.

Throw some fuckery at you. They were on me. They thought this was the time. She had some things she'd went over and got that morning, man, when I was in the bed. Yeah. So anyway, so we're out on, I, Bond is both out, man. We're out on state charges, Louisville, Jefferson County, Kentucky. I go back.

I go back down here and tell him, Puma, hey, look, this is what happened. I'm not taking nothing back. I wasn't calling you. I just walked over. I didn't announce this time. I just walked over a son of a gun, you know. Where would you meet him when you walked over into Tijuana? Yeah, when I first would come over, the little bitty concrete things, you'd go down, all that stuff.

And then you hit all the taxis. There's like 50 taxis there. And then you walk there, and there's a street. And the McDonald's was over here. And I would just keep walking down to the plaza. And he was over on the left. Yeah. Yeah, he had a hell of a little setup, fucking little labyrinth going on down through there and stuff, man.

Yeah. Yeah, it was real nice. Wow. Yeah. But I told him, man, I was. what I just told you. I said, man,

she has some pills, this and that. He's like, oh, man, he's like, yeah, just chill for a little bit. He's like,

matter of fact, you're not coming back over here no more for a while. I said, why? He's like, see that dude? I said,

yeah, some big tall white dude, man, big dude smoked cigarette. He said, he's going to meet you in San Diego from now and he said,

don't cross for a while. He said, you're hot. I said, okay, man, you know? Who was that big white dude? I don't know.

Still this day, I never, but he's working with him. Yeah, he's working with him. Yeah, he's on the payroll. Yeah. He was totally off the radar spec. No criminal record. Yeah.

Good guy. Passport. Never suspected. So you were picking up, started picking up pills on this side. Yes. Yes. I was going to get him from over there. Now, did your price go up?

Nope. Okay. That's good of him. Yeah. Everything stayed. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

So you dodge the state case. Yeah. So I go back on my state case, the court date. There's the FBI guy. And he tells me, hey, come here. I got somebody I want you to meet. And I said, my lawyer didn't tell you I'm not cooperating. He says, it's got nothing to do with cooperation.

So I go over there. Some dude talking about 30 seconds later, you Chris Robloos? I said, yeah. And he said, put your hands by. He said, first of all, DA. He said, special agent, something, DA, you're under arrest. I said, for one, I just got arrested 30 days ago. He said, you got bumped to federal.

And he said, there's no going to be no bond. He said, I know your partners over there are going to come try to get you. He said, you're not going nowhere. I said, what? He said, I already talked to the judge. He said, do you think you're going to bond out? He said, you ain't got no bond. This is even for I went to court, man.

You know, they have plans for me, man. So they take me to Odden County, LaGrange, Kentucky, federal holdover. I go to the court day and stuff. It's federal, man. Possession. Simple possession, man. And this is how this whole story starts. So they never popped you with like a big glow?

I never got caught with one pill, Johnny. Not one pill. 60 months federal prison sentence. That's fucked up. Yeah. I never got caught one pill, man. So you got sentence to five? Yeah, 60 months.

They do it in the months in the feds. You took a plea? Yep, a locked plea. Because my lawyer was telling me, hey, man, there's a B plea and a C plea. If you go on there with no lock plea, you and the United States Attorney General come to agreement. Okay, we agreed 120 months. You go on there final sentencing to the United States, the federal judge, he can bump it if he wants and you can't do nothing. You had no sheet on you.

Nothing. Well, I had some priors, man. Which were? Priors. Pryors, possession of marijuana, I think it was, and possession of pills. Right. When you were a junkie. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Everybody gets called. Weren't you able to, I mean, it seems like that's something you could fight. A good lawyer could be like, hey, he's a junkie. He relapsed. Man, they were already talking about how many times you cry. First, they were wanting cooperation. It was like, look, I can get this 60 months. 60 knocked down to like 42, 36 or 42 months. I'm like, you know, you know better than that. I said, so go back and tell them, let's start with something besides that idea. Sure. And we'll go from there. She's like, there is no idea. It's 60 months, man.

So 60 pills got you 60 months? Pretty much, but I didn't have them. She had them. Is there a quantity? Yes. Like, could you tell us that? You know, five kilos is a minimum 10 years. Yeah, he brought them. Yeah, the lawyers. So the lawyer, so the lawyer. is telling me the way they convert everything to marijuana somehow or another. Interesting. Like if you get caught with cocaine, a kilo, they compare it to be like maybe 100 pounds of marijuana. Everything you get caught with whatever heroin meth, they have a marijuana scale. And the Fed government compares everything to the marijuana, man.

So it's like pegged to marijuana. Yes. Yes. And like whatever much of whatever other drug you have, like that'll determine how much pounds of marijuana. It would be everything's converting. it to the marijuana. Even the pills. Wow. Yeah. So it was like, it was like they told me the pills you got caught with was like, uh, equivalent of being caught with like 250 pounds of marijuana. Yeah. Which could get you a minimum 10. Yeah. And I'm like, man, I never got caught no marijuana.

What are you talking about? He's like, I'm still trying to figure it out myself. I'm like, man. Do you, do you, do you think your lawyer was good or was he? Oh, he was a piece of crap. He was a dump truck. Yeah, he was a piece of crap. Didn't you have lawyer money? Yeah, I had lawyer money. I had a good lawyer. Oh, so what's going on is this is for later. But I'm out on a case from Scott County for intimidation confinement. I had a dude locked up in the trunk and he escaped of the trunk. And then when he pressed charges, it had confinement intimidation.

I pled guilty. Boom, the feds bust me. But I have an open case, man. I'm probation in Scott County, Indiana. And I can't get back to it. So it gives me detainer and it messes my point system up and they send me to hell. I see. be hell.

But, yeah, so that's how that work, man. Hmm. Okay. So. Yeah, yeah. So that lawyer from the Indiana with confinement, he was top-notch good lawyer. Got it dropped down to a misdemeanor intimidation. I tell him, hey, I got a fed case.

You know, anybody, I can't practice in Kentucky. This guy can't. I went like that. He's a freaking state lawyer. Had no business about federal. Wow. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sitting on a pile of money. Whenever I leave, plead guilty from Odom County, they had to call me. downstairs, you have a significant amount, a substantial amount of money. We want to make sure this is correct. Your address and everything on this check, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're from a tiny little nowhere place, so even a federal lawyer could suck. Man, it's not like being in the middle of Manhattan. I didn't have no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, wow. So now it's it. It's five years, baby, 60 months. Yes. And your points are already getting you shot. Yes. And grace me. Six points. So are you do go right to a,

USP? Yes, I was supposed to go to medium. But where they had me on a six point detainer, I gave me six points. The detainers were six points in the Fed classification system. Now they gave me six points at Busts me to United States Penitentiary status. I'm with the big boys, man. Fucking A. Yes. Do you have any idea what you're walking into? Man, I have no idea. Other when the guards tell me to get a shank when I got there. Yeah. For real. Yeah, he told me. But then he tells me, yeah, if you get caught with one, I'm going to give you five years for everyone and get caught with. You just told me to better get one. You just told me to better get one. one. Wow. Where'd you go first? A big Sandy. Wow. That at the time was the most dangerous

federal prison in America, man. Yeah, it was so dangerous, Johnny, that the yard they had to split it in the four sections, man, because people would just be huddled up. They would stomp and stab somebody to death. Then they would separate you. You have a body there. No cameras, no witnesses. Wow. So they had to split it up in the four sections, man. People were getting murdered. Oh, yeah, they were fighting for power in the beginning over there when Chad Marks was over there. Yeah, he was over there when at worst time. They were fighting for power. I mean, they were killing people over places sitting in a chow hall.

So who was fighting? Well, they were fighting over there. The Mexican mafia was trying to establish control and power, and they did. Who had control before? It was a brand new prison. Yeah, they just opened up in like 2006, so it had just been open for like four years. Oh, shit. So they had D.C., the D.C. Blacks over there.

They had some NLR, Nazi lowrider. They had Aaron Brotherhood of Texas over. there that a Texas Mexican mafia and the California maximum office, but the California Maxifia was the Supreme and they ruled everything. And that's the that's where the foundation of the Mexican mafia is. It's out here. Yes, from Cali from what I understand. Okay, so who do you click up with? Yeah, so when I get there, I had to have your paperwork. You have to have your paperwork walking in the USPs. Just not anybody can walk. And then that means be able to live there, basically on the compound. So when I get there, they read my paperwork is any good. They tell

other guard. Yeah, he don't have any sexual kitty charges. He didn't rat anybody. So he can walk if he chooses. And there was like 15 of us, man, there. And they told us, hey, finally told us, hey, comes in there. Does anybody here have any homosexual tendencies need to speak up now, or everybody turned face that way and you go to the middle? And I'm just standing there with my face this way, man. And he's like, does anybody else have any sexual with, with a child or somebody young? And if you do step in the middle, I'm standing there. And he's like, if you cooperate with anybody, step in the middle. What the fuck. Yeah. Or if you just don't want to be here and get transferred to someone else, somewhere else, step in the middle. So I'm standing there. And they said,

okay. And then opens the door, man. What's the point of that real quick? Oh, because if you're a sexual offender or you ride on somebody, they will kill you, man. You're not going to walk out of there. As soon as you get back there. So they're doing you a favor. They're doing them, the government of favor and you a favor. They won't have to go back there and get no dead body off the floor. If it were me, I don't have either of those problems, but I'd be like, I don't want to be here.

Yeah, I mean, they gave that option too, you know. So they said step in the middle. So the door opens, man, you know, you hear some chains. I'm thinking, well, damn, somebody's leaving. I hear the chains, you know. Man, I turn back around, John. I'm the only son of a beer standing there. I'm the only one there out of 15 people.

They're all gone. But he got out of there. Yes. Whether they, whatever those options, whatever they didn't want to be there. Me, I'm thinking, I don't know any better, man, you know. They always told me in them holdovers, when you get to wherever you're going, he's like, just keep going. Go hard, though. And don't ever, you know, flinch or, you know, backstep, no weakness, man, just keep going.

So that's all I can hear, you know. I don't have any of that shit anyway, you know, sexual stuff. So hell with it. I'm right. And you're a soldier? Yeah. I'm Marines, and I'm thinking, too, if you did something good enough or bad enough to get yourself sent to United States, Penn Century, Big Sandy, then you're a pretty, pretty cool dude anyway. You're a pretty badass dude anyway, you know?

So I'm going to roll the dice, man. So they come in there, he says, my gang coordinator going to talk to you. He's like, you got an 033 number. He's like, you're not with, and you're coming from California. He's not with those people out there with the mafia. And, man, I don't know anybody or anything about that stuff. Kentucky like you see he's like okay so the gang coordinator comes in he's like man you're awful dark he said but you got a hell of a country accent he's like you got two choices with that

spanish last name you either run with the white boys he said or the mexican mafia's going to pick you up and and i said man i don't know what to do and he said the best thing for you do is have some sense about yourself like the other 14 man he said there ain't no shame about it nobody even knows you're here and i say yeah but i know i'm here and i I said, I'm not going to be back there around that shit, you know, sitting with them dudes, man. You know, I feel if I'm here already, then I can make it the rest of the way. He's like, what you better do is better get you a knife as soon as you get back there. He said, but if I catch you with one, I'm going to give you five years.

He said, take him back there. He said, the mafia is going to pick him up. And so they, when you get into Big Sandy, the administration is literally recommending where, what gang you should be in. Yeah, they tell you. That's what it's all. me. He said, you can ride with the white boys. He said, with your Spanish last name in your dark, he's like, more than likely you're going to go with the Mexicans. He's like, they're going to be all over you, man. Send him back there. I get back there. It's an empty cell. Here comes a real Native American guy,

Indian. He's like, hey, man, are you Indian? I said, no. I said, my dad's spank with mom's white. He's like, hold on. Like two minutes later, man, here comes three big Mexican dudes, man, freaking gold teeth, resacci glass frames, tattoos. He's like, hey, man, how many come with you? I said, 15, I'm the only one to come back. And he's like, you Mexican? I said, my dad, he's like, come with us, man, who are you with? And I said, I'm not with nobody. So we're going to take you upstairs.

So there was like two in front of me and one behind me. They're walking me up the stairs. And there's a dude in there, MS-13. He's an MS-13. He's getting a big-ass tattoo. Some highlights of MS-13 on his stomach and another soldier's putting on him. His name was Puppet, man. He's cool.

And he's a real good tattoo artist. So he's tattooing over him. And they tell me, hey, man, he's like, your paperwork looks good. And he's like, where are you from? I said, Indiana. They said, you're not with no gang. I said, no, I'm not with no gang. They said, take your clothes off.

So I took my shirt off. I'm standing there with my pants. And they said, you got to take everything off, man. Yeah, I took my pants off. I got my boxers on. They said, okay. They said, I turn around. I turn around.

And them dudes had their shanks out, Johnny. Yeah, the smallest one was probably about that long, man. Yeah, the rest of them look like, you know, and I'm first, I'm thought, oh, it's a sick joke, you know what I'm saying? Where in the hell they're going to get a piece of iron that long, you know, sharpen that good? I'm thinking it's a sick joke, you know. But then they tell me, hey, you have two choices, man.

He's like, one, you can run Christian. You can go to this program over here. He said, that's where everybody goes that we don't want to be here, man. Or you can come with us, the Mexican Mafia. And, yeah. And he's like, it's not as bad as it sounds. He's like, from here on out, you'll be untouchable in the federal prison system, wherever you go, man, if you're under our banner.

I said, okay. He's like, you need a minute to think about it? I said, no. He's like, good because you ain't got a minute. Yeah, I said, no, I'm good with you guys, man. I'm down with whatever. He's like, I knew you was cool, man. I knew you'd be down with it.

He said, he's like, get him downstairs and take care of him. They give me two big laundered bags full of brand new stuff, Johnny. Plastic sweats and the plaster or sweat. her sweats and a plastic, all new hygiene, you know, food you couldn't even get on that compound, man, they had bought from people that brought it in. All nice stuff. They hooked me up real sweet, man, took good care of me that first day. So they're running the prison.

Hell yeah, they're running the prison. The guards told me. Yeah, he's like, you're going to get with them back there. He's like, you'll be all right because they run to prison. He said, everything. He said, even down to the weights, to the dip bar out on the yard, he said, there's two. They say, they have the best one. everything here they have the best of everything.

That's what they tell me about them. Because they're ready to kill. They'll kill you in a second. And are these Mexican Americans, Chicano's? Yeah, some of them are Chicano's, man, but every one of them has, is black. I see one white boy, a soldier in there, but he was from a hood out here in Cali. Okay. You know, it seemed like every one of them was from a hood in California, but me, man, every one of them.

So where in California? Well, one of them was here in Florence, man. That's right. Downtown here in Florence. one that I'm in contact with to this day, very close to him. And they call that Florentia. That's the street gang. Yeah, Florence.

And they're super ruthless and infamous down here in South L.A. Yeah, they were supposed to have one of the biggest bust ever, you know, a few years ago. And can you tell us who that individual is? Yeah, Alberto Hernandez. And I want to say that when I met him in there, man, he was one of the most nicest, kindest gentleman that I've ever met my life. And he pushed me to do the right things in life, you know, and reading the right materials, was keeping my mind sharp. He's totally against drugs and alcohol when I was in there.

You know, he was like, look, you know, we'll talk and do whatever, man. But he's like, I don't associate with anybody that does anything to harm their bodies, you know, like drinking or drugs and stuff. What was he locked up for? He has double life plus 60. He has a whole host of charges, false charges, I believe. The RICO charges, attempted murder charges, possession charges. and it needs another look at.

You know, he had Chad Marks look at his case. So he's a gang leader. They got caught up as a kingpin of whatever indictment. That's what they say about him. They say yes, he was with the top. Oh, okay. So now you're here, you know, it's weird. It's funny, like Cholos, you know, Hispanics.

If they like you, they're real cool. They're really nice guys. That's true. If they like you. Yes. Did they have any Mexican, you know, Mexican Mexicans running with them? Or was it all Chicano's? No, no, there was some, you know,

Spanish-speaking Mexicans. Oh, yeah, yeah. Every one of them spoke Spanish. Every one of them was from out here. Now, there was some that were illegal, you know, that just come in as soldiers, you know, they're going to be deported, not going to be here in California, you know, but they ran together. All the Mexicans ran together under the Mexican mafia, even MS-13.

Now, can you explain the structure of the Mexican mafia and how that related to Big Sandy? where the waters come from and yeah. Yeah. Basically what I can say about that, you know, is in Big Sandy, you know, from what I know, every unit, you know, has someone in charge, of course, you know, that's over the whole unit. You know, you have a problem with another race or internal, you go to him. You know, if they can't squash it, then it goes to whoever is over the whole thing, the whole B unit. You know, there's B, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

You know, you have a shot caller for 1, 2, and 3. and four separate. Then you have one that's over the whole thing. If you can't squash it and B1 your problem, then you take it to the high that's over the whole B. If they can't squash it, then it goes to the top right there. Of that prison. Of the prison. Are you aware of that person, the commander of the whole prison? Is he in contact with people in California, which is the headquarters? I'm sure it is, but yes, I had the opportunity to meet him. Wow. The maid man. Wow. Yes. And it was a very, very, very. very thrilling opportunity.

Scary, but it was thrilling at the same time. I had a question that I needed to ask him. And it took me a couple of days to get the nerve up, man. You know, but you have to be careful the way you present yourself and you speak to these people, Johnny. Surreal. Yeah. They'll kill you in a heartbeat, man, over the least little thing.

And who was this man? Can you say his name? I'll just say that his name was... Carlos. Okay, yeah, we'll say his name is Carlos. But, yeah, he's here from California, man, from Norwalk. Okay. Yeah, from Norwalk.

So. But the federal government's completely aware he was in charge of big Sandy. They know who he was because every Saturday, man, we had to come out. It was his thing. He made everybody, every soldier come out and greet him every morning. Wow. Monday through Sunday, Friday, or Sunday you do whatever,

but Saturday it's mine. You come to me. And I would be in line. for like 10 minutes, man. The whole line. Yeah. Right in the middle of the, right in the middle of the yard, man. Wow.

And the guard was right behind him and like four of his bodyguards. And he was just sitting there and you would have to shake his hand. Wow. Every one of them. Like a king. Like 500 of us. Like he's, you're like kissing the reign of a king. I was in the Marine Corps with generals and high ranking officers.

I had never seen anybody as powerful as that man, Big Sandy. What made him so powerful? Oh, because he could get, come here, go kill him. Seconds, the man would be dead. Wow. Dead. And he could do it with anybody. Was it just his character?

Or was it the fact that he had killed and proven himself so much that now everybody's listening to him? Everybody knew that was a fact. But his character also, he was a very, very mean individual, man. Yeah, I bet. Yes. And I just wanted to look at him and I shake his hand and go on about my business, man. Yeah, it's a guy you want. want to like you too. Yes, yes. But at the same time, every one of us would have did whatever,

he says, man. Now, he's not isolated. He's not in solitary. No, he was out there. He was out there with this, so they let at this time in Big Sandy, they let the shock callers be in the general population. Yes, yes, because it was better for the federal government, you know, for he could control his people. Right. You know, that's how it is. Yes, because if you make him mad and he puts the order out on whoever, guard, anybody. I don't want to scare nobody in the prison, but it don't matter who you are, man. It's over, you know. And I feel that they would rather, hey, let him out turn around the people. Let's keep them, man, happy. Now, what about drug trafficking and running the rackets in prison? Were they doing that? The library? I was doing that. I sold more

heroin and crystal meth than big sand than I ever did on the streets of Austin. Wow. Yes. All right. I'm talking black tar heroin, man. Okay. Yeah, I would get that from the D.C. Blacks, man. I had a connection. I don't know where this dude, he got it. He had a plug there on Big Sandy, and he would come around, and he would tell me like a day or two, hey, get your money together.

I can give you a gram for 600. And a gram of heroin is like the size of a peanut. Yeah. M&M. M&M. Peanut, you know? That's about the size. You get $600 for that. $600 for that. Yes.

There's not no gram. I'll tell you that's a prison gram, they call it. But what I'm doing to it, Johnny, is I'm getting me a potato chip bag, and I'm cutting that bag in half, and I'm cutting little bitty strips about that long, about that wide. And I'm taking my peanut and I'm rolling it out to where it's real thin. You can see the light in it's real thin. And then I would just make 50 pieces. They would call them papers. Peppolitos, little papers they call them.

And I would sell little papers of $50, man. And how is something that small? Yes. How are people getting high off of that? I'll tell you how they're getting high off of it. You can get high off of it two ways. One way you can do it is you can take you some water and warm it up in the microwave, put it in that plastic spoon, and then swirl it around, dissolve it, and snort it.

Or I can get you a binky for 20 bucks. Binky's an outfit. You know what it is. That's crazy, man. You know what that is. Yeah, nobody ever knew what a binkie was, but you're the only one. Wow. Maybe I should go to Big Sandy.

No, not for a binky, Johnny. You're doing good. Thanks, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So off a peanut that you paid $600 for. Yeah.

What are you turning that around? I'm making 12. Yes, I'm killing them. That's wild. I'm killing them, man. I can't keep enough of it, man. Wow. And so you, and this was just your connect amongst the Mexicans.

Yeah, that was just a D.C. Black connect. Yeah. Now, you know, other people have their, it's difficult to get a connect in federal prison because somebody's going out there that visitor and bringing that stuff in. And if you don't know them, you ain't in. Or if you don't know somebody, I don't know them. I got as high as I could up on the ladder in there. Okay.

Explain that. What do you mean? Like in terms of a connect? As far as a connect, you know, a lot of people are going to like the store man that sells stuff. You know, everybody's going in there getting stuff. So let's give him some heroin and then push it on somebody. You know, you're probably like the fourth, fifth man down from the top, the store man. I'm probably the third, man.

Yeah. You know. Wow. What about crystal meth? How does that market work in there? Man, they come to me one time. Gave me a big ass rock of crystal meth. D.C. Blacks, too?

No, these are the Mexicans. Right. Yeah, these were the Mexicans, man. They come in there. They said, here, they didn't give me weed all the time. I first started selling weed for them. Little bitty-ass joint, barely even had anything. I said, man, what am I supposed to do with this?

They said, those go over for 15. Trust me, nobody in your unit got none. I went back in there. I told the store, man, man, it was gone like five minutes. Wow. All 10 joints I had. man, $150 I made, about 10 minutes. Well, that makes sense.

They love me, man. I push it. They give it to me. It's gone. Give it to a machine. Machine will push it, man. So you were distributing it for the people bringing it in. Yes, because I was kind of off the radar.

And another thing they told me, you're not as reckless as us. They said, you know, you're more patient, more methodical. They tell me you're more methodical that the way you approach things. Us, we just kill everything right then. We'll sort it out later, you know, whether it's our mistake. Not you. So I was like, you can build a gap with these other races. And I perfected that, man.

I perfected that because their policy in there don't go outside your race with no type of business, man, at all. And in the U.S.Ps. They can't cook for you. No, the race cannot be fixing you food. Prefer if you go to a Mexican store. Don't even go to a black and white store. Keep it in the La Rasa, the race. Yes, everything.

So I was able to go to the blacks and get the good price. Now I can put my homeboys on. You know, I can go to the attention. Italians and get the meth, you know, because they know, hey, that's the guy selling all the weed all the time. That's the guy selling all the heroin all time. He's good at it. Well, give him this.

He's brown. No, but he's cool, man. He's cool. Did you have to keep your relationship with the DC black? What I had to do is kick money upstairs. I'm not keeping secrets from the mafia, Johnny. I'm kicking it upstairs. 30%.

Wow. So you figure there's got to be a handful of you guys. kicking 30% up to the kingpin. Everybody's supposed to hustle. They said everybody here's going to hustle. You're not just going to be laying around, not doing nothing. And I think the reason they wanted to hustle because 30%'s going up. Of course.

Why not? Of course. So he's collecting like a mafia king. You got tattoos, guys giving tattoos, 30% of the $200 tattoo. The store man, 30%. Yeah. Yeah. Get out of line.

you're getting that bone crusher. Yeah, I'm good at those too. I made my first one. Okay, how do you make bone crushers? Well, one day. Tell us what a bone crusher is in case you haven't seen the show before. A bone crusher is what it is. It's a piece of metal sharpened and fall down so far and so big that when it goes in your opponent, it crushes your bone.

You know, because you got some of them they call stickers, you know, little shanks about this big is going to stick you. You know, might hit an organ, not mine. No, I'm going to crush them bones, man, when it's going in you. Because I'm a little guy. And I'm going to push that thing hard as I can. It's going to crush that rib, that rib cage. Were you strapped when you were walking around? Hell yeah, I was strapped.

Not with the bone crusher. I kept that for special purposes only. For riots or wars. Yeah. For the war. But I always kept one on me. And Johnny, they have metal detectors. When you come out of them units, anytime you go to the yard and you come back in.

But so how do you beat the metal detector? I'll tell you how to beat. I learned it in the Marine Corps. Those boots in prison, Johnny, I take the inside of it, got that hard plastic cap inside of it, Johnny. And then I would, I would, from the unicorn saw machines, you get the oil and it burns forever on top of them pop cans. I'll get me a little bitty flame going.

I would freaking sit there and get that freaking plastic melted, and I sit there and form it for hours, drop it in the floor, run water on my hands, cool it off, get it back, hot again. man, I end up getting me a nice little piece, John. I could walk out on the yard. And it went through the metal detector every time. Like nothing. Yeah.

It doesn't seem like metal detectors stop anything at USPs. No. We always come up with something to go around it. We have plenty of time. Now, Unicorn. I worked in there. So we had our good friend, unique mecca shout out. I call him Unc.

You know, real, real big kingpin back in the day. He was at Big Sandy. He was at Lewisburg. He got called down by the guard. working at the unicorn or supervising the unicorn and all those cats working were junkies when he was there and they were like look just keep bringing the heroin in do not stop whatever you do the government

the government said do not stop bringing in this smack because we need these unicor guys working like slaves because they have contracts the products they're making they like they got to fire these things out you know it makes sense it's big business business. Yes. So did you notice, did you know the Unicor workers were getting, getting high? Like, who are your customers? That's most of them that were in there. We're getting high. Because they're getting paid and they can buy a $50 piece. Yeah, because Unicor, that's the highest

paying job in a Bureau of Prisons is Unicor. And at Big Sandy, we made military jackets. And the reason I went in there is to get some of that oil. You know, that's why I got that job. I went in there. But a lot of those dudes, Johnny, man, they were strung out and they were using that Unicorn money to pay their debt off. Right. You know, they were coming to me when they were getting close to paying their debt off 40, 50. Hey, can I get another pepolito? And I'd be like, man, let's get it down to 20 first, you know, at least.

Did you ever have a problem with debt collection? Hell no. One time, I did off this dude named Albert from Kansas. He ran a store. And then what happened is he ended up getting some stamps off me. And he wasn't paying him, but he was always having people paying him on store day. He would see everybody going to him. I'm thinking, how does he not have this?

So my shock caller tells me, hey, has he ever paid you yet? He keeps saying next week, next week. He said, go ask him again. I went to ask him, ah, this and that. Same story. I went and told him, okay, he tells me, okay. So later on that night, they're drinking. My home boys, they're drinking, white lightning.

And he sees me talking to Albert. We're just talking, you know, shooting, shooting shit. Man, he sees us talking. He comes down here. Did you tell him again? I said, before I said anything. I was on time we're talking about the ballgame, man. Hey, go up there now.

Everything in your house that's worth $50, any and everything. He said, get it out and put on the bed. He said, we'll be up there in 10 minutes. He said, this and I say, I don't want to hear nothing. The dude went up there. 10 minutes later, man, my homeboy get up there. He's got everything that on his bed. He said, now you get your $50 worth.

They said, I'm going to get my $20 for the problem. Wow. Yeah, I got my $50 worth of stuff, man. They're operating. They're operating like they are on the streets almost. Out of fear, man. Almost like with impunity. Nobody's doing nothing to them in there.

God, that's their home. When is the first real gruesome acts of violence that you can remember when you were there? Yeah, the first, well, I'll tell you the first dead body I walked over. We were going to Chow. I'm in B3, so we have to go downstairs. We're in the ladder well. They never rode the door open. We're like in there for 10 minutes, man, waiting.

Finally, they rolled the door open. There was a dead body, dead due laying there. little bit of blood there. Eyes was still open. And I fish a lot. I'm a country boy. I know what a fish looks like when you keep him out of the water. He has like a little haze over their eyes. This dude had a haze. He'd been there for a minute. I'm paralyzed. I'm standing in front of him. There's a whole unit behind me. D.C. Blacks, Nazi lowriders, Aaron Brotherhood. Like, what the hell? Yeah. I'm froze. My homeboy, keep walking. Keep walking. I can't keep walking. They grab me, man, man, like this. And they carry me over the dead body, man. Yeah, I'm looking back.

And he's like, man, you've got to keep going. Don't stop. Yeah, you got to keep going. So on the line for Chow, all these different races are just stepping over this guy, like he's not even there. Because it's not very wide, you know, where you walk. Wow. Yeah. And here's the thing. When we come back from Chow, he's still laying there. Yeah, still laying there. I'm like, we've been gone for 15 minutes to Chow, man. But when we went out to the yard that night, he had finally been gone. There was an inmate out your wife sweeping the ermine, mopping the blood out. Yeah, yeah. The blood, uh, there was like a blood cleanup crew. There was, man. It was the same dude every time. because there was another death out there about a year later.

And it was the same dude out there. He's like, they pay me extra. He telling everybody laughing at him. You'd pay me extra. He said, imagine that. There's so much violence that it necessitates a blood cleanup crew. The blood clean up crew.

Wow. And they pay him a little extra for hazardous duty, they say, because of the blood. Now, you know, especially amongst the whites, there's really no fist fighting. And there's very little violence. amongst other groups, unless it's a war, of course, right? When people are getting gutted and stabbed up,

it's usually discipline, but amongst their own gang. It is. Now, did La Eme operate kind of the same way? Yes, every race. And one dude, they put him on soups, man. Yeah. What does that mean?

Put it you on soups. It means where they kick your teeth out, and you can't eat nothing but soups, man. Fuck. Johnny, I've seen it, man. And listen, first of all, I want to say this about the people we're talking about, I respect those people, the mafia. And I would never say anything to hurt them, you know, they're very, they're very nice,

too many here, took good care of me. What they do out here or whatever, that's their business, but I know they're very serious. And this guy that I'm talking about, that they put him on soups, what had happened, he was on a yard, and he got, he was getting ready to get caught with that shank. So he throws it. an important person near them, and he gets trouble for it, the important person,

we know it's all bad. We know it's all bad. We just don't know we're going to have to kill him, stab him, what we're going to have to do to the guy. Something's going to happen, man. Yeah. You know, and he's looking down to sell already because he's thinking, I know what's coming, man.

Yeah. About two days later, man. We're all sitting there. We know watch a TV chobbing up. You see three mother efforts coming up from a different unit with boots on, from a different unit. It was the hit squad, Johnny.

It was the hit squad, man. So here they come. Dude automatically goes in his cell. We know who they're coming, who they're coming, while they're coming. And so he's accepting his fate. He doesn't know if he's getting killed in there. No, but he just walks on in the cell. Like a soldier.

I guess he'd rather have it in there, you know, than out here in the public, man. So he goes in there. You hear them in there, man. You hear the screams and stuff, yeah. And I go to my room, you know. And then about 10 minutes later, they come get me and stuff. Hey, man, you know, go down there and warm the soup up. I go down here, warm the soup up.

I go on there fucking somebody else is cleaning the blood up and stuff. Homeboys laying on the bed and stuff, holding his fricking. Shit's already puffed up out to there. He can't tell you like this right here. He doesn't even open his mouth, Johnny. He's doing that for like a week. Yeah. He didn't leave the unit nothing.

Do they save his teeth? No, they kicked his teeth in, man. Okay, but you didn't put him on ice and go to the dentist. No, they didn't. But he had a whole front grill up at a topping ball. them. And on soups, what that is is I don't know how many soups I've fixed the dude. All he could do is like barely had a straw and like put it in his mouth, suck on it. That's putting you on soups. So they spared his life though. Yeah, they spared his life. Now, did you ever witness or an order to kill somebody? I never witnessed it, but I heard the plot to it. Yeah, I heard the plot to it. What did that do to you? It made me realize it could get anybody, me too. Were you worried that you were going to get that order?

Well, what, here's how. Because you're a short timer. Yes, and here's how I took it, man. Because I heard stories of this one dude. He's got life now. He had like 10 days left and something happened. And it just happened to be his turn. He was just up for it.

Dude end up dying. Dudes end up dying. They charge him and two other dudes with the murder 10 days left. What happened? He's doing life. What were the circumstances? Oh, for that? Yeah.

They say he was talking to a younger. girl through the letters and the guard towed. Fuck. The guard toad on him. Wow. Yes. This was a Mexican mafia?

Yes. The guard told him. And they were just supposed to punish him? Man, I don't know what they did, but they fucked. They said they stabbed him like 32 times. He ended up dying. Yeah. I asked that time, I was close somebody who was in his unit.

I said, what do he do? He said he was riding an underage girl. And the guard told him, what you might call it. And he was getting ready to get out. Then he got the order. Yeah. Now, isn't there any kind of consideration for, hey, this guy's going home? There's no consideration.

Like, this guy's got 10 days left. Like, go with God, Biacone deals. If they even thought that you considered it, they would kill you. You know what I'm saying? If they're sitting there, okay, Johnny, you got to go do this. We know you got 10 days. If you even look funny or look like you don't want to do it or any of that shit, they're going to kill you, man.

You better go over and do it and take a chance that the dude don't die. If not, you're going to die. Now, isn't, did you take any of this into consideration? like, what have I got myself into? I'm a relatively smart guy. I'm a good drug dealer. I shouldn't be doing all this thug shit. I'm with some dangerous people that really maybe this guy cared about you, right? But a lot of those motherfuckers, the kingpin, the godfather didn't care about you. They were like a chess piece on a board. Whatever he needed to do to advance his whatever. So in the back of your mind, did that worry you? Yeah, about the fact of the first.

two months, because it took me about six months, man, to finally get conformed to the rules and the regulations of these people, you know, the rules and all the laws and stuff. It took me about six months, man. You know, in that process, you know, I was like, I'll never be the same. I remember making the phone call to my stepmom, Phyllis, hey, Ma. And she, I was like, she's like, you're all right, bub? I'm like, no, she's like, I can tell something wrong, what's wrong? I said, I'm never going to be the same again, Phyllis.

I said, do you remember me whenever I was. before, you know, I said, I don't think I'm ever going to be that way again, you know. Soft spoken, of course, well-mannered charismatic, but, you know, inside I've had to change my heart while I was here. And I've never been the same, Johnny. Yeah. I'm sorry, buddy. You sound like a guy that's come back from war, from Vietnam, from Iraq. But this was a very war in a confined space.

into hand combat. Yeah. Did you ever get disciplined yourself? Nope. I walked the line and I even heard them say it one time. Somebody told me they got in trouble and he's like, nothing serious, you know,

they had to do a bunch of burpees and stuff. I think they didn't go outside or something on a Saturday. Nothing serious. I'd do like a thousand burpees. I was like, man, he's good. And he's like, yeah. They was like, they said your name.

I said, what? They said, man, why don't you mother effers just walk the line like machine? He never does wrong. And he'll do anything. Right. didn't know that I didn't have any fucking sense not to do anything. I didn't know any better.

Right. You know, like you say, you don't, you don't realize it, Johnny. You know what you're doing, man. You're just caught up. How did your relationship with, I'm sorry, what is this? Alberta. Alberto. Yes. How did this start to change you for the better? Well, when I left Big Sandy, well, whenever I'd walk around the yard with him at one Saturday morning, everybody was looking at him. All the Crips, the D.C. blacks and everybody, all the black gangs. And I told him, hey, man, these people looking at. He's like, they do it every time it happens. And I'm thinking, what happens? Walk around again. And white boys saying, hey, man, we're going to watch you tonight, this and that. And then the Mexicans, hey, man, yeah, we got some popcorn.

I said, man, what are they talking about? He's like, you don't know about my show I have? I said, no. He's like, yeah, I'm on gangland, man, Spike TV. Yeah. And he said, the blacks don't like it when it comes out, you know. I was over in Florence, you know, Florence and Firestone, you know, or whatever they're saying is doing stuff.

So, yeah, he's a pretty famous guy, man. So, you know, he kind of mentored me, man, guided me, you know, don't be, you know, no gay shit, no gambling, no drugs, no alcohol, man, you'd be all right, you know. So I kept in contact with him, you know, after I left, you know, sending books. He guides me, you know. Did he, would he have had your back? Did he want to see you go home? Yeah. Yeah, because, because here's what happened one time.

I told somebody, hey, I want to do something. I want to do something to make me. recognizable. I want to take a step, man. And he was like, man, that means anything. You know that, don't you? And I'm like, yeah, I know that. He's like, anything. I say, yeah. And then a couple days later, he's like, hey, he's like, you're going home. I said, what do you mean? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, no, I got got, got, not him or anybody. I'm not going to say him. Got something better for you out there. Got something better for you. You want to put in work? I got some work for you. He says, it's not going to ever want to be illegal. He said, I trust you, Chris, man, just like

the people that, you know, you're with before, they trust you're trustworthy, man. I know you. And man, I just been doing things for him, man, throughout the years. I called Chad Marks, you know. Right. He was like, okay, I can use this guy to do work for me. I can put it up. But I wasn't, I wasn't playing on it going that way.

I don't want nobody thinking, hey, that was my intention, you know, because these people, you got to do whatever they say, you know. So you were ready to go kill somebody to make a name. Yeah. Why did you decide you got this good hustle going? You're selling heroin. You're selling meth. You're selling weed.

Why did you feel like you wanted to make a name within the organization? Man, because I've seen the way they treated the people that did. Yeah. One time one of them had me carry some grape fruits out of the chow all for him. So we're coming out. He's walking with me. The guards are standing there. You got anything on you?

No. They pull me over. He's tap me down. Pulls my grape fruits out. Sets it down. Here comes the guy back with me with a grapefruit eating it in front of him. Nobody eats a grapefruit in federal prison, especially in front of the guard, man. They just searched me and took mine.

I'm trying to conceal mine. This dude's eating out in the open. Yeah. He comes back eating his grapefruit. those are mine. Told the guard, those are my great fruits. He said,

gets them off the window, so it gives them back to me. I didn't know. We go off to the unit. Power. Power over a federal. Power. Federal guard, man.

Wow. Yes. The federal government. Federal government, he tells them, no, no, no, no, no, peasant. Yes.

Those are mine. Yes, because they told me the warden had to talk with this guy when he got there. Hey, whatever we can do to accommodate you, man. That's what they told me. He's that dangerous.

That powerful and they knew it, man. There's nobody untouchable, Johnny. Right. Guards have been touched in federal prison. Oh, yes. To make an example. Yeah. You know, they don't run it, man.

The mafia runs it, man. At Big Sandy, do you think during your time, La M.A. was it? Or were D.C. Blacks more powerful, the white boys? No. The Mexican Mafia is Supreme on any yard they're at. They control that yard. I don't care what the numbers are.

We were outnumbered, man. DC Black was like 900. There was only like 450, 500 of us. The rest white boys matter. It doesn't matter. Their reputation alone throughout the federal prison system is supreme. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, they were, when you got there, they had just finished shoving out who or taking the yards over from. No, they were fighting for power because the yard had just been open for like two or three years and they were still vying for power. I see. sitting at the best seats in the chow hall who's using the best dip bar out on a yard you know who gets to use the basketball courts whenever who uses the best basketball the Mexicans had the best yeah and people got killed over that got killed over it do you know this is our our dip bar we've claimed it yeah you're over here you're hit man did uh was there ever a war there well you were there no i didn't see one okay no they were they were just buying for power you know and the mexican mafia always

Right. So did, uh, did you, well, what was your plan? Was you, were you expecting to parole out of Big Sandy? Well, I knew. Or were you going to get class down to like a camp or something? Yes, I was going to go. Yes. And I did.

I got transferred to medium security. Once I left Big Sandy, I went to El Reno, Oklahoma. Okay. So you at how long had Big Sandy total? Uh, close to year. Oh, that's all. That's it, man. So you were hustling and you were working immediately.

Wow. First day. recruited picked up. Wow. Did you have any close calls with like getting touched up or getting caught with drugs or anything like that? Any whole shots? Uh, I almost got caught bringing back those four shanks, man, from C unit. They called me up there. My first time doing anything, they called me, hey, I want to talk to you up there. Here I come. Go up there. Shut the door. There's a whole house full of them. Yeah. Okay. In the morning, we got your first little thing. You're going to go over a C unit. They got four MS-13s, got four brand new shanks.

for us. There's four of us in here. He's like, you're going to go get them and bring them back. I'm thinking, I got a unicorn job to report too. What about my job? What about, you know, the metal to every, I'm not saying this. I said, yes, no problem. Who do I go to stocky? Go to stocky, shot caller, MS-13 over there waiting. Okay. Hey, hey, hey, when you come back, he says, it's a one-way move. When you're going to sit up there, you're going to call medical first. When they call medical, you're going to go in real fast when they're coming out. The guard's not going to be there. He's going to be in the office.

You go straight up there to stock yourself. And then an hour later, they're going to call for a unicorn work call facilities. That's when you go out with the rest of them. You forgot your ID card. What are you doing going back that way? I forgot my ID card. Okay. They're going to one you machine under your boots, not on top.

Put the shanks on top of your boot. I took my boot off. I put the shanks there, put it back on. Put the sharp tips down there towards me. my ankle. I'm coming out. Work call. It's game time, baby. It's time to go. I go downstairs. I hear I come sweating bullets. Johnny got four shanks. That's 20 years. They tell me they gave me for those four shanks. I get caught. Here I come. There's the guard, man, standing there. Hey, where are you going? Because everybody's going this way, Unicorn. I'm the only one going

that way. Back to B-Unit. Yeah. Hey, where are you going? I forgot my ID card. Just like my homeboys told me. Everything's playing out. They're going to pull you over. They're going to wand you. Your ID card. ID card. Come here. Spread your legs. Nothing. Raise your foot up. Left foot. Shanks are on my right foot. Nothing. Raise your right foot up.

Underneath of it. Never on top. Whoa. They knew. He wasn't going to wand the top. Make sure you don't forget your ID card next time. Go on. Here I come, boy. First mission, load it down. Forward Shanks. There you go. Digging right down. of my foot. Blood soaked my sock when I went up there. I'm passing my shot collar. He looked at me like, what's he doing? How'd he make it? He looked at me like that. What do you,

you didn't go? I got him. Toto bien. Wait, thought a bien. It's all good. It's all good. I'm telling him. Hell yeah, he says. Go up there. Yeah. Is that impressed him? I talked to you after work. Yeah. That was an impressive for him. Heck yeah, he looked at me. You didn't go yet? Yeah, I went. I got him. Wow. Yes. Wow. Yeah. And I felt something. See, I felt something. And I wanted to feel more. Yeah. And that's when I wanted to make the hit on somebody, man. So had you plotted out the hit? I was willing to do whatever to whoever it was, man. I was wanting to be next in line. Okay. So I'm getting a sense that La Jemé is the most powerful because of their discipline. You know, they got that Mexican work ethic and their organization and their organization. And their,

the ruthlessness, of course. But you talked about overhearing a murder plot. How would, they're trying to get away with stabbing and killing somebody. What does that sound like? Like what is, what is a murder plot at Big Sandy, uh, comprise of? It's very simple, man, believe it or not, because I heard it through the vent. It was next door.

You know, it was like, hey, we got a first, we got to get approval from the outside for anything happens in here, man. Really? You know, yes. So you can't get touched without approval from somebody high up, like in California. Yeah, it's got to come from the outside, man. It's got to come from the outside. Holy shit.

So even the top dog at Big Sandy is not the ultimate godfather. He might pass it down, you know, before you do something like that. Right. But it has to come from something else. Pelican Bay probably. Wow. It's that organized. It's real.

Yes. I know since you mentioned Pelican Bay, and this is public knowledge. Of course. Everybody knows this. One of my people, that's where they went to Pelican Bay to get the order. And when they carried the order out, the feds was watching them. Now they got double life plus 60. Right.

Yeah. Chad did a pair of work. Chad Marks. He knows about it too. Right. Right. Okay. So they get the word, they get the okay.

Yeah, you got to get the okay. Now, they're not going to dissect how you do than that. That's where you come in, who not me, but the highest one to hike on the yard. That's where you make the plot, but it has to come, you know. But they come up with the scenario. What was the way to hit somebody and not get, you know, caught with the camera or anything? Yeah, the best way to do that is send as many as you can all in there at once because they're going to, that's all they have is whoever goes in there. Right.

What happened? Well, the only six of you was in there. The other one's dead. So it's whatever happens. We went in there. There was argument. This is self-defense. Normally it was a dude that already had double.

life. I'm not laughing his life sins. There's no need to burn somebody else when this dude's never getting out in the first place. Right. You know, he'll go in there, but the other five might do the work. Right. And if it comes out, somebody has to take the fall. Yeah. It's the dude ain't going home. Right. That's basically Johnny how it works out. Okay. We're not going to burn another soldier, man. But they burned that guy that had 10 days. Yeah. They burn him, but I don't know the details. They well, like I said, it wasn't a plan on dying. I I don't think they're playing on killing the guy.

Right. They're just punishing them. It was like two or three days later, you know. Yeah. They caught an outside case. The FBI come right there. Yeah. And they had to take him to whatever the federal courthouse was.

Are you, so there were people getting re-arrested for bigger outside charges. Yeah, getting charged, man. Right. Getting charged an outside case for something you committed inside. Now, it's been said that Limei sends orders to people on the street. It actually conducts. street level drug dealing. Did you have any, do you see that at all?

Or did you have any awareness of that while you were in there? Well, somebody wanted to use my phone and they wanted to use my pack number to write the letters out. You had a cell phone in there? No. Okay. Yeah, they want to use my phone, my phone, my prison phone, you know, which would have been listened to, you know. Yeah. They wanted to get on my phone.

And I was like, you know, what about anything else? And he's like, letters, you know, can you, can you, can you? puts this right to them, you know, because you're off the radar. They tell me. And I'm like, yeah, I'll do that one, you know. Right. Yeah, just give it to me. So you wrote out?

Yeah, I wrote plenty of letters. Well, what, do you remember some of the letters? Yeah, man, I was kind of embarrassed because it was like, like I was writing a lady. Yeah. I'm talking about lingerie and want to take this off. And I'm thinking, God only knows what this means, you know. I'm jacking off every day thinking about you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

What about your pink blouse or, you know, or this and that? And all this shit, you know. They had deciphered, you know, the key to it, I'm sure, on the street, you know. Oh, so you're writing a letter about pink lingerie that might mean meth dealing. Yes, it could be anything. You're not dumb. They're not writing overt messaging. No.

And I've got somebody standing over top of me the whole time making sure it's letter for letter. Really? Serious, man. So they've got this decoded. Yes, it was serious. Oh, they've got their shit together. Yeah, he was right over top of me the whole time. He's like, that looks more like an E is a.

is not supposed to be a V. Wow. Yeah. And it's encoded within the letters. Yeah. Because when I'm reading it, I'm like, man, who cares about a pink lingerie? It's December out here, you know? And I was like, okay.

Wow. I understand. Wow. I understand why you're doing it to me. I'm off the radar like I heard you say, you know. It seems like the more time you have in there, the more you're able to get away with. Like, they threaten you with five years for having. a shank, but, you know, this guy over here can do whatever the fuck he wants because

what's five years to him? Exactly. So it's like incentivizing bad behavior, you know? And they know it, like you say, like an incentive, and they see it, and they know it. Well, you know, you were tearing up just a little bit ago, and I appreciate your candidness. what was some of the things that, you know, conjure up in your mind when you, when you have this kind of PTSD? Well, you know, being from the country, I enjoyed fishing a lot, Johnny, you know, when I was younger. And that's just what I enjoy to do, man.

I enjoy outdoors. And I notice one thing about the human brain, you know, when you're put in terrible spots in a situation, like your brain is resilient, you know. remarkable. And what I noticed about myself, Johnny, whenever I was in there, man, doing a hard time, locked down. And, you know, whenever they'd lock us down for months at a time, I would be so depressed, man, and so beat down, giving up on life that before I would go to bed, I would be thinking about fishing and things that made me happy. And I would be able to like transendental meditation, if you will. At night, I'd be able to project myself to my favorite fishing spot. And I would be away from Big Sandy, man. And, and it. And, and, and, it got deep, man. I've done that to myself for months, man. That's how you coped. That's how I code with it. I would mentally project myself to a favorite spot or favorite event in my life. And that took me out of having to worry about getting stabbed or killing somebody. At what point did you regret not getting in that middle line when you first walked into the prison and they said, hey, you don't have to be here. Well, I mean, I would have thought about it, you know. I mean, I wouldn't have felt coming around.

on this podcast. If I would have done something like that, I wouldn't have felt worthy enough, you know, to be able to represent myself to be who I think that I, no, I know, but did you regret after seeing how violent it was, walking in there,

did you say, ooh, I fucked up. I should have, I should have copped out. No, Johnny, because I never,

ever wanted to show one shade of weakness. These people are experts of identifying weakness or a little crack in your armor, you know, and then you might go astray. and we can't have that, man. So I wanted to show, you know, strength and solidarity every moment. I never want to show a bit of weakness.

Yeah. And I was able to form some good alliances, you know, and friendships with people in the meantime. It was Big Sandy. It sounds like that's a good place to do life. That's all it is. If you got to do life in prison, that's where you get the most freedom of movement, the most freedom of to make money, do drugs. There's a lot of money on that yard, man.

You had a lot of rich people. on that yard. Yeah, who are some of these cats? You had big-time drug dealers? You had this dude named Dewey. He was from the order of white supremacy group where they tried to overthrow the federal government robbing cars and armored trucks and stuff.

Wow. And armories, yeah, that's what it was. Also, you had a name trans, some North Korean or South Korean dude. No, Vietnam. And what it was was he's seen in North or South Vietnamese rape his family. He never forgot it. So when he sent him to California as a kid,

he formed this gang, I forget, if it was a triad or what it was, and they were doing bombings, man, on the opposing, you know, whether it's north or south, you know. Yeah, he was in there and made him, little bitty guy, has so much power, so much power. Did they have a car? Did the Asians have a car in there? Yeah, that little car. He was a shock caller over there.

There was five or six of them over there. Yeah, can't be many. No, there wasn't many. There was a dirty South over there. There was a Nazi lowriders, like I said. Everybody had their own tables. And there was the white boys that ran by themselves, the solo, you know, white boys. they had their table, man.

Right. Nobody messed with them. Really? They respected it. Yeah, he respected it. Okay. It was the people that was single by themselves, not running nobody, that got looked at. Like, you're under them.

Those people were under the microscope, you know, because you could have been attacked at any second. So even if you weren't with the gang, you had a click. You had a click. The white boys had a click, even though there were no solo by themselves. They still clicked up. All the ones that were by themselves. They still clicked up.

They were strong. They were powerful. Nobody messed with them. Did you have the brand in there? Yeah, ABT, the Texas brand. We didn't have the Cali. They can't walk the R together. A.B.T.

I've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. The original AB and then ABT, they're at war. Because I think the AB's ranks of real AB guys are like minuscule. They only have like 200 real members, you know. Yes, they are. And they're the Cadillac too, I think of the White Boys.

Yeah, they are. They are. So what did those run-ins look like? Were they bringing in meth or how are they making money? Man, they were just getting it from. the ups, like, you know, like I was like the third one down on the run. You know, I'm sure they were, that's how they were getting it in, too, man. What about the cigarettes?

Cigarettes. Is that a good, awesome? The only way that they were smoking. And what I did was the chew, the guards chew, right? So they would put that chew bottle on their trash can. They'd call it hot trash. But I would go. They would send me.

The Mexicans would send me in there. Hey, go see if he'd give you the hot trash, man, and get the bottle. And I had one. Yeah, I had one. I would get the bottle. I would take it up there. and we would pour that out, all that tobacco juice, and we would separate the strands of chew. We would dry it out, and then we would roll it, man, sell it, five hours, smoke.

Yeah, I'm going to puke. Nasty. So you didn't have a gar bringing in cigarettes because I know that's big business. No. El Reno was a different story. Okay. El Reno. So we're going to get to that in a sec.

So, wow. What a place. What a... It was deadly. Very deadly. How many people got killed in the year that you were there? Two days after I got there. somebody got killed a white boy over an A unit and they shoved him under the bunk.

And that's how they found out he was gone when they started doing rounds. We were one short. So they went in every cell, man. Look, and he, they shoved him out of the bunk. They were drunk drinking a white lightning. What is white lightning real quick? Where you just make like hooch? It's hooch.

But it's strong. You can light it. You can light it. It's clear. Wow. It's clear. And they make it out of shirt. Yeah, yeah, they killed him.

And they were arguing just play fighting and what? of them. We're drunk. Hey, you know, he got the best. I mean, I can't live with that. Yeah, because we're watching the football game. It was Sanchez for the New York Jets and somebody else. I remember the game. And lock down. I'm like, damn, we can miss the football game. Super Bowl. And he's like, what happened? Oh, white boy got killed over there. A unit. Like it wasn't nothing. And that was just normal. Like it was nothing. Guard said, you'll be out in a couple hours. Got to go in. Lock me in there. Yeah. Next morning, everybody's out. Yeah. When did that happen again? Oh man, this is all the time getting locked down because of the guests. I was over there less than about 11 months, man, and there was six murders, man.

So that's about one over two months. Yeah. Yeah, and that's pretty tame. Yeah, and that was nothing. They said it laid back. Right. Yeah, and when Chad Marks and them was there in the beginning, it was all the time. Right.

You never know who might end up dead. Yeah. But now there's power. Now somebody's solidified it and it's under control now. It's under control. damn yeah that's bananas that's what unique was telling us at louisburg the bus would pull up and as soon as they heard that the bus was pulling up they're like okay hey i got to get my shower i got to go to the store because somebody's getting hit yeah exactly literally twice a week without

fail that's the truth man you get some dudes coming off the chain and they want to be tub tony but you're a fucking sex offender okay send him back there he'll be back up front and a body back here in a couple hours. Did any sex offenders make it through? Man, I didn't see none. I mean, I've seen some homosexual dudes. They were together, you know, like two dudes. Right. Now, what they had on their package? I don't know if they turn gay when they come in. I don't know. And, but that's cool. You can be open again. Man, I walked into a B3 from receiving or was a dude sitting on another dude's lap doing his hair.

I was like, what? That's sweet. Yes. I'm like, man, I'm keeping my hair cut for sure. Now, did anybody get turned out or was it not that kind of place? I seen one dude and every time a group of dudes man got drunk, they would always go to that little dude's cell and put up the towel. And it only happened when they were drinking, man. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know what was going on up there. But I know a dude,

um, um, man, my thing was his name her in a second. He got, he got, um, raped. Yeah,

he was my first sale. What was going on is he took the Christian route. Remember, I told you to offer you to two. And so he's like, I'm going Christian. He's like, I'm not coming up doing all this shit for them. People, I'm going Christian, man. So he's like, hey, he's leaving tomorrow. Don't let him push the button. Here's the shank. Just touch him up a little bit. Just poke him. Don't go through him. Tell him we don't get down like that. I said, so poke him and tell him you don't get down like that. We don't get down like that, not you. I said, okay, I got you, man. I'm landing on top bunk,

the shanks under my mat. He's looking at me telling me, I'm, tell me, I'm I'm not doing this and that for him. I'm going over here. He's looking out the window looking at me thinking, damn, they're going to hit me, man, before I go over there. They've been lying. They're not going to let me go. They're going to hit me, you know, thinking I'm the hitter.

Yeah. And I'm thinking, you know, I want to tell him, look, as long as you don't hit that button, I'm good, man. You know, I never said nothing. He was telling me what to be looking for. And he's telling me, you're going to have to do this. You're going to have to do that. That's why I'm going over here.

I'm not doing that. Yeah. They end up raping his ass, man. Okay. So they let him walk out. They let him go to the next unit. Like two months later, I'm in Unicor. The machine shut off.

Guards run out. I'm like, what happened? He's like, probably a fight. Ends up, man. Alvarez, Alvarez. They said, so what happened? Alvarez is the one, you know, tell me, hey, watch him.

Don't let him do it on crazy. Took him over there. They were drinking him and his celly just left ADX. His celli just left ADX. Got transferred back to the max. Put him in general population. God only knows what he is doing ADX. seven years, man, been around this nice looking young man.

Wow. All night long penetrating. Listen, I went by there because I was on maintenance also on the weekend. They had people in suits, man, like CSI with swabs. Right. Yes, taking pictures, man, the federal government. Did he survive that? No.

No. Could you imagine what that done to your, you know what? Why didn't you just, they just poke him with the shank? There was no, I guess there was no shanks over there. Oh, that would have been so preferable. That was the program where you just lay back and do your time. Right. You're not, no, right.

You're not, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Heck no. They just let him walk. They said, hey, we don't have a shake. Go pass. Okay, you told us you don't want to be with this. You want to be Christian.

Okay, this is where you people go over here in this unit. Well, he was in there with that dude. It just come from ADX, man. They were drinking. and that dude took his thing from him, took his innocence from him, Johnny. Took his life. All night long. Penetred him where he bled out, man.

Send him back to ADX, the dude. But let me know. Let me put no order nothing. Right. So they weren't in the business of that kind of thing. No. Using sexual violence is a way. No, sir.

And I assume there's no homosexuality between them. Forbidden. But if two white boys are, you know, in their, own car. They can do what they want without repercussion. Okay. As long as you're not a pedophile sex offender, you can be with another man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's tricky politics in there, man. That's why I said when they said, just walked the line like machine, you know, I made sure what you can and can't do. You're not going stab me. I'm trying to make it back to fishing. You know, I don't often have to take a moment

during this podcast and catch my breath, but I think I need one of those. Some dangerous stuff in here, Johnny. Okay. So, how? How? How long did you expect, did they give you, did you have like a counselor that said if you, if you, you know, have good time, this is when you'll get class down to a medium? Yeah, because one day they called me back there and she's like, you know why you're here? I said, no. She's like, she's like, you're going to the drug program in El Reno, Oklahoma. I'm going to take a year off your time. She's like, I said, when am I getting transferred? The first thing I said, when am I getting out of here? She's like, well, barring any bad conducts or shots right up, she's like, it could be one to two months. And I'm thinking, this is where it's all going to go down to the next one or two. I ain't never making out of here, man. People don't make it out of big sandy, man. And they're going to hear about it, man.

And somebody's somewhere along the line for whatever reason. And I'm going to get bumped up to fucking at your turn. Did you consider, you know, I've heard, I've done state time with guys that were in places like this, you know, Victorville when they were going at it, when it was just as violent. And they said guys was 60 days of the whole. 60 days of the gate, rather, would catch a hole shot on purpose. They would. So did you just to be protected? They would know?

They would know. And they would have me killed back there in a hole. How could they get to you in the hole? They can get to you anywhere. How do they kill you in the hole? Because they'll have somebody else go back there and get in trouble with Johnny. I need you to go to the hole, take care of this house. Here, come here.

Let me give you this moonshine, you drink it and then go out there and that crazy. I've seen them run across the yard in Oklahoma, dog drunk. right across the yard so the cops could tackle them. We're all like, why in the hell did he just run across the yard with a pint of white lightning to get tackled?

Because he's got to go to the hole and do something. That's why. You see what I'm saying? They'll put somebody on back there on purpose right next to if they got to kill you. Now, how can, but when you're in the hole,

you're completely isolated from the other inmates. Man, there's opportunities I've heard when they take it to the shower. Sometimes it might not lock it. You find an opportunity because it's your order. To kill him, go back there and do it.

Find a way. That's what it's going to look like, Johnny. Really? Yeah. Okay. So we're going like this. Two months. What's your strategy?

Just act like nothing? Act like nothing. Don't go any harder. Don't back off. So you're still hustling, kicking upstairs? Yeah. Now, where are you keeping your dope? Like, I'm fascinated, you know, because, you know me.

I like to get money. I respect the money getting motherfucker. I mean. I have to be honest with you, Johnny. A lot of people don't like it when I say this, but I keister my dope, man. I'm not leaving it in my locker, my room to get no extra time. Right. But you can't keep it in your ass all the time.

So where do you stash it while you're waiting, while you're chipping and getting it off? Do you stashing somebody else's cell? I had that little Albert guy, the store guy, you know, because they never went to him. Right. They never went to him. And I told him, look, this is what you're going to do. Or I'm going to go get him. He's going to come talk to you.

Right. Remember the $70? Next time it's going to be everything. Right. Here, how much is it? He tells me. Give it to me. I'll do whatever.

Exactly. Yeah. They never mess with them. Wow. That's a great little hustle. So you're at the store. When you say store, what store was it? Yeah.

What is that? Is that the commissary? Well, what happens is you have people that'll go to commissary and buy everything, you know, like one of everything almost, or what you feel that someone would need. like on a weekend. Let's say we're cooking something. We don't have any garlic powder or rice, but this guy does because he owns a store, which means he's got everything the commissary does. We're going to go paying, but we're going to have to give him 25 cents extra on the dollar, man. Right. See? Okay. So we're supposed to pay him whenever

commissary day, we're supposed to pay what we owe him. Okay. He's the store guy. Okay. I got you. Yes. I got you. So it's convenient because it's a store. Like, you know, You don't have to wait for, you don't have to wait for commissary's next week. We need garlic powder now. He's got it. Right. So he's just the friendly store guy. Yes.

Meanwhile, who knows how many drugs he's stashing for people. It could be somebody else's if it was that easy, but he didn't have the influence of them off either behind him like I did. Right. So that made it much easier for me. Okay. And then you trading with stamps or people using stamps or is there cash in there too? No. A book of stamps was 10 and they're 25 cents.

So a book was 250. a book and that's 10 stamps, which is like a quarter is basically what it is. Okay. So how many stamps would you give your D.C. Black heroin connect? Oh, I would send that off the computer, off my money off my account. You can do it like this. You can go down your account and you can have however much money and you can send it to a person's name and address. So then you got to go take it to your counselor.

They got to sign it and it's like a check from the federal government. It's got your money on it. Okay. I would just go ahead and send that dude's whatever name he gave and stuff. I would send it. It would be a different name every time. Right. So it didn't look suspicious.

And they don't ask questions. It might be in D.C. one time. It might be in Maryland. Right. So it might be in Virginia. Actually, it was those three places. Wow. I sent some money, Virginia, D.C. and Maryland.

Three different people. Wow. And that's how I got my black tar heroin. And was there ever a drought? Hell yeah. There was. People were sick as a dog, too. Most of it.

It was. You'd see him not showing up at work. or not on a yard. Some people would check in, you know, they get so sick. Right. Yeah, but it would come around. Yeah, eventually come around. Get through.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Damn. That's wild. And you, counselor, never asked what you were sending these checks off for? No. I only did three of them, man. Right.

I made them for large sums, you know. Right. Yeah. So how many? 1,200. Yeah. I got two at two M&Ms. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Shit. Okay. So do you remember the day? Did they find out? that you were going home. Yeah, what happened was, oh, the frequent hand out mail?

Okay, everybody's looking at the mail line going up there. Did I get mail? Well, man, they send you something where your counselor sends it, you know, in the package. And it was like, everybody knew what that was. That was your walking papers. You're leaving Big Sandy when you get that. It's very rarely seen. It's like a golden ticket.

And everybody and their mother knows what that is. Oh, God, I got people coming up to me. hey, that money owe you for this, who can I give it to? And this is, I'm barely even walking back to myself. Yeah. So I'm like, if he knows that by looking at this, what do they know? So does that go straight to them? Right.

I go straight to them. They don't even go to myself. Take it to them. What is this? I tell them. Oh, man, you're out of here. Congratulations, this and that, you know. It was a smooth transition.

Okay. Yeah. So they were happy for you. Yeah, they were happy. Yeah, because on the yard, the big guys. I heard you're getting out of here, you know. And I'm like, I'm thinking, is that fucking good or bad? He's telling me that.

I heard you out here. I need you to do one more thing for me. Or I heard you're out of here. You're out of here. I didn't know which one it was. Why do you think that was? Why did they give you a pass? Because of who they've seen me with, that person.

And I think he spoke for me, man. Yeah. You know. And they could see you were intelligent. You were a good mover. And they're like, look, this is a freaking warrior with his mind, his intellect, not with his freaking, you know. we have people for that, you know.

Did the kingpin of that Big Sandy, the shot caller, whose hand you guys had to kiss every Saturday, which is insane. Like a king he was, you know, always gone by there. Did he say goodbye? Did he know you were leaving? Yeah, he knew I was leaving for two ways. Because the guy that told me out there, hey, I heard you're leaving, was one of his bodyguards, like a counselor to him.

And then another reason is because when I went asking him the question that I wanted to ask him, you know, basically he's letting him know that, hey, You know, I want to know that it's okay if I do this. Do you know the meaning of it, the reason? You know, and I explain to him, yeah, this is the reason why, you know. Yeah, he's like, he said something like, I don't give a shit or I'm good with it or something, he tells me. But what it was, I had a marking, a tattoo that was represented them, and I told him, can I get this? Because I had to get permission.

It cannot ask somebody over me. It had to be from the main top. I had to get permission from the made man in order to get this. That's what they're all telling me. He's like, yeah, you have to ask him, and you better know what it means, too, because he's going to ask you. Sure enough, he asked me.

What does it mean? So I did my research. Whenever the one I wanted to get, it was an eagle, like on a Mexican flag with the snake, but his face was facing towards the south, which means something, you know. We miss Mexico.

Basically. Right? Good, yeah. It means that with that, with like a history sense, of course, in the books, but with the mafia has a total different reference.

So when somebody sees you, they automatically, I know what he is or who he was and who he is with. Right. That's what that means, you know. So that's the equivalent of like the swastika for the area of brotherhood. Basically, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the brand, rather. That would be like the white boy equivalent, you know, the shamrock.

The shamrock, the clover. And so if you get caught with that ink and that's- Oh, you're verified. You're validated, validated. Yeah. And that's why I was like, I didn't get it to. I know the reason. Right.

You know, because the other guy, he was telling me, yeah, that's cool. You got permission that and that. But listen, what happens when you're on vacation out there and you got your shirt off running down Redondo Beach and somebody pops you, you know? Yeah. Is it, you know. That's what he told me. And on the inside, if you get that ink and you're not supposed to have that ink. Yeah, you can only go to where you are in a minute and they see that.

It's over for you, man. So I thought, you know, I haven't got one yet. So let's just not get it. Right. So he gave you your blessing. I did get it, but I declined. I didn't want to get it after I spoke to someone else. And did you wish you well when you were going home?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I told him thank you. I said, thank you, man. I said, for everything. Because when I first met him, it took me three days and met him. He kept saying, you're going to meet him, you're going to meet him. Finally, I went down here. He's at a table and got his guards around him.

I went over there and I shook his hand. I was like, Signore. I was like, thank you, you know, for everything that you've done and everything that you can do. I said, but I'm willing to do anything for you. I said, I'll do anything for you. I told him that, man. I'm a whole hand to God. And were you planning on keeping your work?

I was just saying that. Yeah, I'll do whatever. But I was just saying that because of who he was, you know, what he could do and make me, my life disappear or anybody around me, kill me or anybody. So I told him, I'll do anything you want me to do. I told him. He was just like, you know, like. Do you know what has become of him?

Yeah. He's still there? He's out. He had 10 years sentence. What? Wait, wait, wait, wait, they let this guy out? Yeah, the main guy, not Alberto. Right, Alberto's in there.

Yeah, he's in there. Yeah, the main dude, I don't like 10 years. So how do you ascend to that position with only 10 years? Well, he was made before he come there. I see. Yeah, he was a made man before he got there. He was a made man on the streets or from before maybe in another stretch. Well, I heard this was his first federal bit.

Okay. Now, he had been in L.A. County, I heard. But he was a made man before he come to Big Sandy. And when he got there, Chad Marks was there. And there was a two-made man actually there. Another one, Fox. I'll go ahead. His name was Fox.

And Chad knew him. And they were there at the same time. But Fox left. And then it was only the other one from Norwalk. And that's the one I met from Norwalk. Wow. Yeah. And they say he was more ruthless than the other one.

Wow. That's what they say, man. And he was able to get out. He had 10 years. They caught him on a meth case out here. Wow. That's pretty wild. He was able to get away with, you know, probably murdering people.

Well, he had a thing with the warden is what they told me. Listen here, Johnny, on the dude's birthday, they take him down to the rec room. They're playing Mexican music, mariachi. They're all sending me back to get freaking Citi cow bottles of white lightning and bags. It's in between moves. Wow. Yeah, they're telling me, hey, go back over there, freaking Ramirez has got some more. I'm like, we want me to wait to the move?

He's like, hold on. They go till the guard, guard comes over. What's your name? Looked at me. Revelos, 119-84033, coming back to B3 over. In the middle of a fucking party they're having for this dude, I'm going back to get more liquor. I come back down with more liquor.

Here comes more people doing the same as me. I'll look through that window thing where there's only four or five people in there. They're playing music. He's dog drunk, you know. Or the rest out there just not drink and just, you know, just there to do whatever for him. He gets so drunk, they put him in a wheelchair. They call the warden.

Hey, we got you know who down here, dog drunk. Got a whole house full of soldiers, man. What do we do with him? Make sure he don't get touched. Will him back to a unit to his unit? Wow. This is the Federal Bureau of Prisons calling the warden, man. Unbelievable.

We got this dude here drunk. Put him in a wheelchair, make sure he's okay, get him back to his unit. That's right. Letting us get wild down here, man. Power. Yeah. Power. Yeah.

And he wants the lid on things. Yes. Only six murders of Big Sandy this year. Yes. And that's what I'm saying. They had a relationship. Look, nothing crazy. Don't be touching our guards.

We had a big thing. Don't talk back to the guards. You talk back to the guards or give them problems. It's over for you, man. Right. Because they're coming straight for him. Right. They're coming straight for him.

Wow. Yeah. So it was like an order, an order. Yeah. To keep order. To a certain extent, man. You remember the day you got transferred out? Yeah, I remember.

I remember looking back when that riot guy. gates, every few feet, they had riot gates. So when you come, the first right gate pops. You have the whole unit here in the middle. They close the back one, about five minutes. Then they open another one. That's how they control everybody, you know, case there's something there. So, yeah, I remember when they first opened that right gate and I was there by myself, man, looking back around was by myself. I said, God, you finally let me make it. Thank you so much, man. Because I thought I was going to die up there, Johnny, or get a life sentence, man. Had you made peace with that?

Did you accept that? Oh, yeah. Wow. I told God, man, one night, I said, you know, I already know what it is here. I can see by the atmosphere, the environment, the death, and I can feel it, you know. And I told God, please forgive me. But I'm going to do everything I can, man, to make it out here. And if I have to draw blood from another human, so be it.

You know, but that's what I'm going to do. Whatever I have to do, Johnny, to get back. And I made it that way for myself, man. And you never considered, like, going to PC. dropping out? No. Did people do that while you were there? Did people drop out?

I never seen nobody with us. I didn't. No, because it's over for you, man. You're marked, man. They can get you there. Yeah, the mark, man. You'd have to go to protective custody yard to get away. That's what I mean.

A gang dropout yard. Yeah, so you didn't see any of that happen. If you could find a way because they told me, it's always got to be two of you, no matter where you go to the counselor's office, you're going to have another one sitting there's a homeboy. And he's like, we do this to keep the other gangs from saying, hey, he was in there by itself. Who knows what he could have been talking about, you know? Oh.

Two people, no matter where you go. So you have to have one other guy who's willing to drop out. I don't know, you know, I might have to work that way, but they tell me, hey, anytime you go anywhere, counselor calls you in the back, come get one of us. We have to go. And they're cool with it. They tell me, they're cool with it. They know why we do it. Okay.

So if you were going to drop out and not tell anybody they would see you going there. Why are you doing by yourself? Yeah. Exactly. Whoa, dude, it's like the KGB. You can't get out of it, man. So where did they, uh, where they ship you off to, the drug program? Yeah, Reno, man, Reno, Oklahoma.

So what was that like? Medium custody. It was more, I felt it was more dangerous because there was no control. Right. There was no control, man. I mean, it was a wild, wall west. Free movement everywhere. Exactly.

You know, every hour there's a movement out onto the yard. And Big Sandy, you're stuck in there. You go to outside direct once a week. right you know for three hours man so el reno that bus comes every week and they're sending pices up there you know all kinds of stuff and then they're not supposed to be on that yard if they try to sneak through or don't understand the seriousness of it and get back there and one of them other gangs uh season it's over for you man and i felt it was more dangerous because they were butching them right up there while they were chained on the chain oh my god they would be landscaping johnny

old mexican dude's like uh grandpa freaking uncle thomompson whatever, mustache or everything. Looks like a churchgoer. Up here, weed eating everything. It's going to go. Hey, welcome El Reno. Kill him. Bob, blah, blah, blah.

What happened? I've been weed eating, sir. I don't know what happened. Yes, all the time. They were up there like vultures, Johnny. The gangs. The way they sent it there, whoever did the first hit. Oh, yeah, we got them this week.

Yeah, now next week's your week. They rotated, man. Yeah. Did you know that it was. like that? Not at first. I don't know. Nothing.

You know, I'm excited. You're like, I'm out of Big Sandy. Yeah, I'm out of medium. Nothing happens. Thank God. Oh, it was more deadly, man. Because they can. Not because nobody had to get no permission.

Right. And knives can move easier. Oh, they had a unicorn over here. It was some kind of fabrication shop. A dude got caught with a five-gallon bucket full. He was going to try to make it, the mother load. Right. And they'd probably selling them to.

Carlos, yeah. He was off the radar, somebody like me at Big Sandy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's probably sell for good money, too. Yeah. Sure they do, man.

So now it's chaos. Now you don't have a LMA controlling everything. No, now it's crazy, man. Kind of every man for itself and stuff over there, you know. And so there's so many drugs over there and I'm thinking of a new way. So here's what I do. I get power, you know, over there. So then what happens is I'm telling them, look, these jobs, there's a microwave,

orderlies, okay? You might clean the showers, clean the microwaves. I'm going, if there's nobody, if they're not connected, I'm going to them. Look, I'm connected. This is who I've got. This is who I'm with right here. This job, you're getting $50 a week or $50 a month off of it. We're getting fucking $20, $20 off of it from now on.

But, but this, get him. Wait, so you're just shaking people down. Extortion. I'm putting people, whatever jobs who don't want to have that job, that's who's going to have if you don't pay me the $20 out of the $50. And if it's a job, like the microwave is because the microwave man, he had access to the closet, which has got the floor wax and that pink liquid stuff that everybody likes because it cleans the room real good. Now I'm selling the wax. I'm selling that pink cleaning solution and I'm getting $20 off of him.

The shower job, Oberhelmine. He was cool as a fan, kept him showers clean, but I have to tie my shank at the end of a piece of dental floss and tie it in the shower thing. That way I can take the cap off. There's a war going on there and get it. That's where I'm hiding my shanks at now, Johnny. I need that shower drain. I need that shower. How are you coming in with this muscle?

Who do you say that? Because Texas Mexican mafia was there. The same ones that was with Leamey at Big Sandy. Okay. I know both of them now. So they're like the group right below Lameh. Yes, Texas is right below the California. See?

Got it. Okay. You know them. You know this. Okay. You're with the big guys up there. The Mayman. Cool.

now you come with us. And you got it's juice because you just survived Big Sandy. Just left Big Sandy. All them prospects and upcoming soldiers looking at me open the doors for me. Hey, you got this and that over there. Are you doing okay? Yeah, man, already had it off the muscle, had the power. You know, I'm giving them new ideas.

Look, you guys are doing this and that. Let's get the jobs, man. Let's get the laundry. I went and got a job in laundry. Now I'm providing laundry service. You want your laundry done twice the week. set it outside your door and I'll have somebody come pick it up 50 dollars a month I've got my own washer machine up there now I've took control of the laundry yeah I'm going to wash your be your

personal laundry it's not going to be with the compound it's going to be in there fresh soap everything VIP customer yeah yes I'm getting it everywhere Johnny I got the money coming in everywhere and now is that enough business for that oh yeah people with money to pay for laundry service and whatnot some of those dudes up there that's never been to the chow hall they have personal chefs man well I'll be in my my chefs, they cut the trash can out hard plastic, go to the commissary and get that olive oil, and that's how they fry it. So they get their burrito, they stuff it full of meats and cheeses from the chow haul. They put that dental floss around it, get that olive oil real hot,

just dip that down there, hold that dental floss drink, dip it where it gets nice and crusty. Now you got a fried freaking burrito. Yeah. I'm all over it, man. Wow. So you're making legal money, sort of. Legal money, man. Sort of legal money. I got the laundry game down. providing your service, drop off pickup service if you want. And then I got the job thing going, you know.

Did you ever have to call the dogs? Because somebody wouldn't, you know, cop up? Not once they seen me with who I was with. When I first went and handed my monthly bill out, I had two soldiers with me. Right. Yeah. So when Chris walks in, machine walks in and he's got two mafia soldiers in, there's no questions. Right.

Because those dudes are ready to do work. Yeah, they're ready to do whatever. Yeah. They've already got the order from the man. Right. You know, and I've already sit down with him. Look, this is what I was doing for your people, 30%. I can do you 30.

But I need your power. I need the back. I need your backing, your blessing. So if you're extorting 20 out of a guy, you pay three times, you pay $6 to the boss. Exactly. Got it. And it comes to the point where I'm making money off the food now. I got to connect.

Big Ben, big tall black dude, bringing me whole roast beefs, man. Wow. Yes, I've got the roast beefs. I got the chicken. We're dicing it up in between count. I'm giving them to the white dude to fry them. Everybody's in. Everybody knows me now.

Are these cells? Are these now like single man cells? Yeah, single man cells. And you're in the drug program? Yeah, I'm in Ardap. On Ardap side. But you're doing all this hustling, but you can't really catch another charge for that. No, they see anything like that.

They kick you out of the Ardap program. You lose a year, man. Right, right. So we're from seven until 2, 2.30. R-DAP all day long. Oh, was that good for you? I mean, I have to be honest with you,

I just played it to get my ear, Johnny. Yeah. You know, I played it to get my ear off. I did the same thing when I was locked. Okay. Yeah. They were like, you gotta say you're all fucked up

and a drug addict. I was like, I'm an addict. I can't help it. Exactly. Don't forget that year, you owe me. Right.

Right. Wow. Yeah, but I enjoyed myself at Arrino. I'm out there on a yard, man. Yeah. It seems like every second was new money deal going for me, man. What about drugs and cigarettes?

Oh, they had the heroin up there and a cigarettes too, yeah. Yeah, the white dude, Heath, and he was a guard, man. He was from Oklahoma, and how we got connected was his people was from Kentucky, his grandma. Because when he heard my voice, he was there, big dude, he's like, man, my grandpa's sound like you. He said, he's from Kentucky. I said, my people's from Kentucky. I said, where are you work at? He's like, in here.

He's just locking the fence. I see, careful come in, sit down. It's air conditioning. Go ahead, man. We're chopping it up, get real good. he goes and gets stomach surgery done. They leave the sponge in him. He's telling me, he's all messed up.

Guess what he pulls out for pain medicine, oxy-80. What? Yes. He's like, he knows them about me. Hey, he's like, you remember these? He's like, I give you one, man, but you know. And then like two days later, I walk in on him, a white boy in there, A-B-T. And I said, hold on, I'll come back.

And he's like, no, he's cool. He throws his leg up on the desk, pulls out a big-ass thing of tobacco and hands it to the ABT. He walks out. I said, uh, how do you, hello?

Yeah. Hello. Exactly. I said, do you see how I've been walking around without on a yard, don't you? He said, no, I don't pay no attention? I said, I tell them who. I go tell them what I see. They said, go back up there.

Tell him this and that, Nat, give them these numbers. Tell him what he can do. And I said, I get you about 30 months after I left him, I come, I can get you $1,200 a carton. I can have it wherever you want, whatever you want to do. Okay. So $1,200 for a carton of cigarettes is how many packs? How many packs in there?

10 packs. Okay. So it's 120, ain't it? 120 cigarettes? No, no. In each pack, 20 cigarettes in a pack. Right. So 120 times 20.

Yes. Holy shit. So that's better than drug money. Yes. Uh-huh. Oh, my God. But the thing is, I'm not getting all that, man. Because it's not my money that's going up.

And this is a maid man that I'm talking to. and basically what I'm doing is I'm just open the door and giving it to you, sir. Right. Here's what I'm doing, man. I don't want nothing. Here's a connect. I'm going to pass it off to you. Don't forget me.

Somebody starts talking about me, politicking against me. I got him as an ally. Right. It's made man now. See what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm trying to build up my allies with inside in case the ever politic against me another soldier. I want machine this.

He did. Man, that mother. Making it 1,200, 24 off the cigarettes off the, food off the jobs, off the laundry. No, whatever it is, it's okay. We can overlook it. Yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, but just think about, that's how guards get turned. Yeah, that's how they get flipped.

Yeah, the white boys got him first. Yeah. The white boys got him first. I just wanted to get apart with the mafia. Yeah. So that's a huge lick. Heck yeah. And when he's seen that, and I noticed them too, Casper.

I'll go ahead and tell you the main man, Casper from Texas Maximafia. A little short dude, I'll walk with him when they're closing wreck. Here's Heath out there standing. I watched Heath, and he was like, mad dog, and I looked over at some eye, and Casper's like, like, you know, pointing going like this to me like that, and stuff. And he was like, you know, so I was thinking, man, they got something going already, and they don't want me to know everything about it, you know. And what a one cigarette?

I seen them. What did one stick go for, of tobacco in there? Oh, $10. Oh. For a class A. For a class A. Now, you can get some of them re-rows where they be smoking, and it's down to the filter, and them dudes get all them filters, and they.

rerow it for five. Right. Yeah. But $10 is what gives you that good, that good kid. Oh, man. They want that. Man, when the feds made the cigarettes illegal, they opened up like a million-dollar black market. It is. It is.

That's a million-dollar industry. Yeah. Unique. This third time I've referenced him, but he was in the similar conditions. He said, man, guards were paying off their mortgages, pulling up in brand-new trucks. Man, he'd told them a new house. He'd bought. Yeah.

Yeah. I was like, fucking bringing in cartons of cigarettes. City. He said, yeah, I just got me like a $200,000-some thousand dollar house in Oklahoma City. I was like, that good. He's like in Oklahoma City, that's like a mansion. Yeah. And he went and he only said that after I was telling about the cigarette deal and stuff, you know. So it made me think, like you say, people are building houses off prison hustles, man. So you completed the drug program on time? Yeah. So now you only have two more years. Yeah. And where did you finish those out at? I finished them there. Okay.

finished them there. And then I got sent to the halfway house like everybody does, federal halfway house. And then I violate, man. I end up violating. And then that's when the U.S. Marshals, I'm walking downstairs, getting my car one morning, three black SUVs pull up. And they jump out.

U.S. Marshals, get your hands on top of your head, put your keys on top. I was like, why? I've seen these green dots. And I'm like, all happened so fast. Boom, boom. And they're on me. And I was like, what's going on, man?

You know, and he's like, oh, we got a warrant for you. probation violation. I'm thinking, what? I pissed clean. He's like, you've been going to school and Ivy Tech across the state line and they violated you. I said, I told my probation officer. He's like, you ain't got no signed papers authorizing it, though. That fucking United States Attorney General got me, man. Wow. Yeah, he conspired. Well, they wanted you. Yeah, he wanted me. He conspired with her, man. So I go back to court and he's talking finished the three year total. And then I'm like, told the judge my lawyer, I'm like, how's a year in a year? day because you get the extra day and you get the seven days off for the year and good time.

Things like that. That's okay. The federal judge said. Then they send me to freaking McDowell, West Virginia. Hang on. So you got a year for crossing the state lines. After I told the probation officer that I was going to school over there. Okay, that's fine.

I'm glad to hear that. I didn't sign no papers. This is why I'm a libertarian. This is why I believe in getting rid of the federal government or reducing it to a fraction of its power because it's such a fraction. Yeah, so now. You're also from a really bum-fucked place, too. They wouldn't do that in a place like Oregon,

just because it's not in the culture. It's a much more forgiving, you know. You're from a pretty old-school Christian backwards, draconian place. Yeah. Big time. Yeah. But that's not Christian.

No, it's not. There's no forgiveness about that kind of bullshit-ass move. He did. He wanted me bad, man. I hope he's got cirrhosis of the liver. Anyways. Yeah, so now I'm at West Virginia. What year is this that you violate? This is in 2013, I think.

Okay. Yeah. So California's there on the original, or there again, on this yard. Wait, wait, wait. What's McDow? Is that a... West Virginia. Is that a middle?

No, medium. Okay. Yeah. Not no bad men, but they had the soldiers. Right. The serenials. Okay. We're at McDow.

Right. And they knew me. me because of Big Sandy and stuff. You know, I shot a letter. They shot the letter, got everything straight, you know. So now I'm with them again. And then I ain't got much time, like a little bit less than year because I went all over. Right.

The freaks full, the government flew me to freaking Atlanta, Georgia hold over three weeks. It was easier for me to get a cell phone and a piece of booty than it was a thing of toilet paper, Johnny Mitchell. In Atlanta? Atlanta federal prison. I'm banging on a door. I have to use the bathroom. I don't want to use the bathroom.

No toilet paper? Yeah. Here comes the range runner. What's up, man? I need toilet paper, man. You know, hold on. I tell him who I am. I don't mean much.

You got money? Yeah, I got money too. Hold on. Here comes a blackguard, female. Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, I heard you gonna be here for a few weeks. What are you pound on the door for? I need toilet paper.

Hey, you want some of this? I said some of what? Yes. I said some of you. she's like, yeah, or her cell phone so you can call your girl. I said, we're talking about a roll a toilet paper, ma'am. I'm, ma'am. She said, you'll be better off getting you a piece of ass off.

Maybe not roll a toilet paper, baby. Close the bean home my face. Wow. Never seen her again. You're like, let me take a shit and then and then I'll fuck you. And then I'll send a money and wash off real good. And I'll be right in there, ben you over the desk. Hold on.

Wow. That goes on a lot, too. Yeah, she said you'd be better off, you'd be better, easier getting you a piece of this or a cell phone, he will that roll of toilet paper and close the bean hoe. Yes, so I'm in West Virginia, man over at McDow, getting a job in laundry. This is how I'm trafficking my drugs. So every unit pushes down a big laundry cart, okay, full of that unit's laundry, okay? We go down there.

They do the laundry. Wash it, right. Put it back in the bag with the number. Put it in C unit cart. Whoever's in C unit transports a thing back up there. All my homies in C unit, I tell them, whoever you want. what their shit in the bag, give it to me, because I'm going to put it in that laundry bag

and that's going to save everybody from hand-to-hand transaction. The shit's already going to be in that man's laundry bag. So when he goes in a unit and they're handed out, he's already got his smack, his heroin. He's already got his stamp show him, his jack-mac, everything. Wow. Yes. So you've always been a hustler.

Always hustling, man. You're since the days of transporting oxies across the, border, now you're moving hair on in the federal prison system. Across the yard untouched. Why did you, why with a one year cat nap, we call that, you know, that's a nap. I know, man. Why are you trafficking hair on? Exactly.

I was bored, man. I mean, like you say, I just had that mentality, the connect, you know, mentality, man. You know, and I just couldn't sit by and see some plan, basic grade grade grade, grade plan. whenever I can elevate the game and I can put us all in on it, man. Who's bringing in the hair on and McDowell? Baltimore boys. Right.

God dang. They had it flooded with suboxin strips and heroin. Wow. And these are black guys. Yeah, and you didn't know somebody from Baltimore. You wasn't getting it, man. Just so happens, Big Kev from Baltimore. Everybody knows him at the yard because he was the ticket man.

And I don't know what else he was. Man, they liked him and then dudes from Baltimore. Anyway, Big Kev, he was a good. laundry customer. I always kept him a good outfit for when his family flew in from Baltimore. So he had this a box and thing going. They were going for like $40 a strip. He was giving to me for 10, you know, and then he's like, I can get something better coming, man, you know, got the heroin game going from him. And is this brown or? Tar again. Tar. And how are people getting high on heroin in prison? Yeah, they're smoking it or they should. Well, you can use that binkie. Or you told me that

the binkie or you can snort it through that spoon with the hot water. That binky because you're the only person that's ever know what a binky is, Johnny Mitchell, but I'm going to tell these people. So when you got that milk bag in a chowal, and you go push that, put your cup under it, that white plastic tube, you can chop that in half, and then you can fold it over and put a rubber band, take you an ink pen, and then the end of it, take the tube out and get you a little bitty hoe. And what I did was I got needles, dirty needles from Big Sandy, the mrs.

medical person. He was working back there. I got another connect. When I went to medical, I seen that thing and dirty needles up there taken from, God only knows, probably your HIV person's HIV medicine or cancer medicine. God only knows, I want them. I need them. I can sell them. I can sell them things. Man, let's get the needle game going. So that's what I'm being. Can't clear that big ink pen stick that dirty needle tip up there, Johnny, and melt it down where it went to get no air. Get me a little big thing of water. Use that suction. Suck it up, see if it worked. I sit right turn to see him push that dirty needle right in their arm, man. I'd tell them.

So people with binkies are shooting hair on with dirty recycled needles. Insulin people, AIDS patients, cancer patients. I'd tell them. Look, get you something. Clean it out with, man. I don't know who's been using that, man. But people are using dopamine. They use it.

Yeah, I've seen them use it right after I tell them. Wow. They don't even clean it, some of them. So you're, but you stack, you were able to stack money. You seem, you know, There's been a lot of poor decisions listening to your life story, but you seemed like you were good with money. You know how to save and you had money. Save it, man.

Even when you went back on violation, you had money. Yes. And I tell you what I did, you're going to think it's crazy when I, because I only gave me a year, right, on that probation? So when I get, I'm going to the counselor getting ready to get out. You're going to get 30 days halfway house, man. It takes two weeks before the process. You can go out on a job search. If I get a job, it'll be a two-week job.

Come on. What am I supposed to do? Well, I remember the first time I went through Grayson County and then boys in there talking about some box of strips going for $100 a pop and couldn't keep enough of them. I get out there long enough on a street in that halfway house, go get me 200 suboxing strips, Keestrom, calls hell and dismiss charity. She pushes the U.S. Marshal button. Here come.

Here they come. Well, we'll let you go. I don't want you to let me go. I said, I want to go. I said, I'm not getting a job. I'm not listening to none of these people no more. four U.S. Marshals, best everything come. Here they come.

Well, you saying you want to go back? I want to violate. Put your hands behind your back. Taking your Grayson County. Thank you, sir. I got 200 so box and strips stuffed up my ass. And I'm going to let them go for $100 a pop the first person I see them. That's what I did.

They weren't going to give me but 30 days Johnny Mitchell and that halfway house. I wasn't going to make no money, man. So you made $2,000? Damn right. I did. Just going back to the county jail? Grayson County. That was a federal holdover.

Oh, okay. And Litchfield, Kentucky. So then how long did you have to stay there for? They sent me there for like three or four weeks until they process me. And now you're good. Now you just... I'm done with everything. Now you just get to go free.

You don't even have to go to the halfway house. Nope. Have my people come... And then you don't have a tail, right? Nothing. No probation, man. It's almost worth it. Yeah, it was worth it to me.

Federal probation is so brutal, especially if you have a bad P. They can start you all over. No, right. It's like, hey, just send me back for a year. I mean, you're selling drugs is, I mean, risking it is just the craziest shit I've ever heard. But you, you have some ingeniousness in you, Chris Araveloos. And, man, you really are doing well now. Yes. You're doing well.

Yes, I just got accepted to Purdue University. Amazing. It's unbelievable. God bless me. I turned my heart over to God, Johnny, man. He instilled a new heart in me. But when? Because it clearly wasn't why you were down.

This was like three years ago. Okay, so what did you do in that block of time between, you know, 2014, 2015 and the pandemic? Man, there. I was hustling up until the pandemic ever shut down, everything shut down. I was like, be a good time to try to squeeze some college classes in. Went got my associate's degree in advanced automation. Awesome. I graduated last May from that.

But like I said, I had a new turn of heart. You know, God transformed my heart. Gave me a new heart and a new spirit, man. It's like it says in the Bible. He'd done that for me. You're a good guy. You got a good spirit, man. Yes, the Holy Spirit convict me come down, and I could not outrun that power. He changed my whole mental outlook and everything.

I give it all to God, all the glory, man. And here you are standing. Yes. Unscaled. No HIV. Made bone crushers, you know, hated bone crushers, sold heroin in there, untouched, unscathed, man. It has to be a blessing. It is a blessing.

Right. There's a reason. Exactly. There's a reason. I'm still standing. Yeah. He let you walk out of big sand. He did.

Very, that's something that very few people ever, they always tell me. A lot of people come here, but very few people get off this mountain live, man. Yeah, you leave in a bag, usually. I've seen it, man. Wow. Well, I'm glad you're drug-free, crime-free, living, you know, doing your breast, and, you know, best of luck with school. And there's nothing really to plug. Do you want to shout out anybody?

And we're going to turn to the Patreon and tell some more war stories from the feds just because it's so fascinating. but do you want to shout out to any of the homeboys? Yeah, I want to shout out to my homeboy Alberto Hernandez doing double-life and 60 over here at Victorville, not too far from here. I want to give a shout out to all the soldiers, man, you know, being such respectful and looking out for me and stay strong in the feds. My cousin, George McBride Potts, just had a child, you know, my personal barber. If you ever in the Midwest, hit me up. I'll send you the best barber. Chas Barber Shop, man, my cousin.

But that's about, I stay to myself, Johnny, you know, just on the grind, man, stay out of trouble. These people will never ask me to do anything illegal. but I still do whatever they want me to do, man. Wow. Okay, put a pin in that. We're going to talk about that on the Patreon. Jesus, whenever I think it's over, Chris, whenever I think you got out.

I didn't tell you about the time they flew me to Florida, man. They flew me to Florida, talk to a lawyer, a $150,000 lawyer. Wow. We end up going with Chad Marks instead. Shout out. Can we shout Chad out in his legal business? And his legal business. He's all about legal.

Yeah, he's a paralegal. Look him up, Chad Marks. Everybody in the feds knows him. Everyone. And if you're in the feds, get a hold of us. We want to know how you're watching our show in federal prison. We're tickled.

They're doing it. Man. Everybody's watching your show, man. I think if I went to the feds right now, I might be okay. You'd be the one of the shot callers, Johnny, you made up in there. I'm Johnny Mitchell from the Kinect. I have a lot of good guests. I know that for sure.

Yeah. No guy like you, you'd be doing real well. You'd be up there, man. Chris, real pleasure talking with you, brother. This was unexpected, but I had a great time. Enjoy myself. Patreon.com slash the Connect show for more Chris Aravelo's. A come from behind story, you and Larry Bird, Indiana's finest.

Yes. Shout out. Take care, guys. Thanks.