The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Inside The New Jersey Mafia That Inspired The Sopranos

Episode Date: September 6, 2026

Jimmy “Easy” Saracco lived the kind of Mafia life most people only know from movies. In this episode, the former DeCavalcante associate opens up about coming up in New York’s underworld, making serious money through bookmaking and loansharking, carrying out violent orders, and operating around the New Jersey crime family often associated with the real-life inspiration behind The Sopranos. Jimmy also tells the story of his explosive feud with John Gotti Jr., including his claim that Gotti Jr. was involved in a plot to have him killed. After surviving a brutal attack that left him stabbed and in a coma, Jimmy says he wanted revenge—but Mafia politics made Gotti Jr. untouchable. Years later, the world Jimmy had lived by began collapsing from the inside. Bosses, captains, and associates started cooperating with the federal government, leaving Jimmy facing the possibility of spending the rest of his life in prison. Eventually, he made the decision he once thought was unthinkable: he cooperated too. Jimmy explains why he flipped, what it felt like walking out of his first proffer session, the murders and rackets he admitted involvement in, his time in witness protection, and why he says his life today is better than the one he left behind. This is the story of money, murder, loyalty, betrayal, the real-life Mafia world behind The Sopranos—and what happens when the code everyone swore to live by finally falls apart. Go Support Jimmy! Book: https://a.co/d/0iR1D8xx YouTube: @JIMMY_EASY_SARACCO This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: Quince! Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://quince.com/connect Shopify! The only thing standing between you and your own income is getting started. Free trial at https://shopify.com/mitchell Quo! Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to https://quo.com/theconnect Mood! Head to https://mood.com, browse their amazing selection of functional gummies, and find the perfect gummy for whatever you're dealing with. Use promo code CONNECT at checkout to save 20% on your first order. Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 0:00 Jimmy Easy: Murder, Loansharking & the DeCavalcante Family 7:03 Becoming an Earner & Entering the Mob Life 14:29 Social Clubs, Rikers Island & Early Prison Time 20:12 Vigilante Street Justice & a Brutal Mob Story 22:59 This Episode Is Sponsored By Quince 24:52 Building His Crew & the Holmdel Robbery 35:09 Bookmaking, Loan Sharking & Mob Collections 41:07 This Episode Is Sponsored By Shopify 42:18 Vinny Palermo, Mob Hits & Disappearances 49:29 The 1997 Arrest, FBI Setup & Cooperators 56:17 Mob Territory, Kickbacks & Making Money 1:00:12 This Episode Is Sponsored By Quo 1:01:22 John Gotti's Influence & Sopranos Connections 1:10:34 Extortion, Tow Trucks & Illegal Businesses 1:15:34 This Episode Is Sponsored By Mood 1:16:54 Jewelry Heists, Fences & Whitey Bulger 1:22:18 Chop Shops, Stolen Cars & Insurance Fraud 1:28:08 Courtroom Corruption & Buying Your Way Out 1:33:33 The Night John Gotti Jr.'s Crew Tried to Kill Him 1:39:32 Inside the DeCavalcante Family Structure 1:45:24 Medical Fraud, Hospitals & Massive Kickbacks 1:51:05 The World Trade Center Robbery & Ralphie Flips 1:58:45 Insurance Money, Wiretaps & the Coming Indictment 2:05:03 The Feds Close In & the Murder Charges 2:13:23 Facing Life in Prison & Deciding to Cooperate 2:20:00 Sentencing Deals, Cooperators & Witness Protection 2:27:35 Leaving WitSec & Life After the Mafia 2:30:00 Hit Man Tells All, Jimmy's YouTube & Closing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. But my main thing, like I pled guilty to, was murder and long shocking in the decavacanti crime family. Which is the family that the Sopranos is allegedly based off of.

That's correct. When he comes to me, says, I'm jammed up with Rudy. Ivan helped me get a policy on my brother. I need you to give it him for me. So I grabbed him when he went to open the door. He got shot in the stomach there and hit him again. Four times, five times more. When your boss tells you to do something, you're gone.

Especially when the God, he's part of the kill me. Gene Gotti? John Gotti Jr. January 4th, 1999 is the night they tried to kill me. This is Jimmy Easy, a former mafia hitman and lifelong associate of the Decavalcante crime family, the real-life mob family that helped inspire HBO's The Sopranos. Cargo heists, loan sharking, bookmaking, murder. Jimmy's life reads like a mob movie, literally.

He even claimed soprano's character Richie Appreel was based in part on his life. I think he's right. And before we get going, if you like stories like this, hit subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And make sure to pick up Jimmy's book, Hitman Tells All. I'll drop a link to that below. This is a fascinating look inside the last generation of old school New York City Mafioso. It's Jimmy Easy, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Jimmy, thank you for being here. You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Of course. I've never spoken to anybody who did work for the DeKalbocantees, which, you if you don't know, is the New Jersey family that the Sopranos is allegedly based off of. That's correct. And that's fascinating because that's obviously the greatest show in history. It's not even a question. And it's one of my favorite shows.

And it was the family that allegedly never got as much respect from the New York families. So I want to get into that. But you're not from Jersey yourself. You grew up in New York. That's right. I grew up. I was a year old when they moved me out of Bensonhurst.

And then I was, we moved to Ozone Park. When I was about 12, 11, my mom and dad had a house built in Howard Beach. Okay. Then we moved there. Then about 15, I started getting in trouble, stolen cars, this, that. And pretty much I was on work releases, this, you know, programs to try to straighten me out. It would know straighten me out. And at 17 and 10 months old, I moved to my cousins down in Brooklyn and never went home since.

But mom and dad, I was closer. Okay. So Ozone Park, Howard Beach, that was like Gambino, Gotti territory back in the day. Yeah, you got a lot of guys in there, too. You got some banana guys. Did they try to recruit you? That was, I think, part of the animosity that you're from my neighborhood. And that's what caused the war with me and junior because I was selling fireworks, buckmaking,

loan shock and started with the father. I took a limousine company out of Howard Beach, elegant limousine. He owed me a couple hundred thousand loan shark. So me and Rudy put the heat up, we took the limousine company. The father got really mad. But Rudy came forward, says, Rudy sat down with a guy named Bobby Borrello. He was a captain under John and pretty much ironed it out.

The guy borrowed money. This is my money. You know, that's how they protect you. So you were a good earner? Very good earner. Nobody could deny that. Huh, huh. So how did you end up with the Decavo Cantys?

My dad was, my dad knew Rudy and another guy Joe smashed that was around him. He was a Colombo wise guy. But Rudy and Joe, two different families, but they grew up together. So the Sherlock business was pretty much mostly partner. There was something Rudy had on his own. And I got to the point where I was running it for Rudy, you know, doing all was collecting and this and that. How old were you?

At that point, 18, 19, I joined Rudy and by 20, I had a couple hundred thousand in the street of my own money. Plus, I did my bookmaking. My joker poker machines, Rudy had a small route. But Rudy was so rich, he says, listen, you want to run that route? It's not really, you want to buy it? Yeah, I bought his machines. And I turned that route into, and I'll tell you what I did.

One day somebody robbed one of my machines. in a bulldog and they claimed they were police and they took them and I knew it was all fake. So I said, okay, you just want to play that game? No problem. I got a white kind of line man. I went to all the bodegos, walked in there, NYPD chain. Whose machine is this? And most of foreigners. Asian, Indians. Oh, we know, no, speak English. Oh, you're going to the police station. No, that's not my machine. Well, I'm going to take it. I give them a card made up. have them come down to claimant, the owner. Okay, we're without money and all.

I bust the lock, I put my new lock, new stop. How much did you clean out? Well, most of them have usually about $500,000 in it, you know? Yeah. But then I had a kid Anthony muscles around me. We were sitting on stops, getting the idea of when they empty them. We go the day before taking it. So Rudy was the boss?

He was a captain in the Decavacanti crime. family. And there, you told me off camera that the Decaval Cantys have two factions, one in Jersey, one in New York? They're all connected, but we were based out of Brooklyn, Fifth Avenue, 2nd Street. Okay. And, uh, oh, like downtown? Downtown Brooklyn, that's correct. Like, wow, and Rudy had the club there. And that's where I started reporting every day. Rudy had me going every day reporting. Okay. So the, the, the Jersey faction was just wise guys who probably came up in Brooklyn, who then were like, we want to go out to the suburbs.

And that's how they started getting money out there? Or what is the origin of that? Rudy got close with Sam the Plummer. That's the real Sam de Capucante. You know. Okay. So Rudy was close with him. And they were, and Sam, the Plummer is from Newark.

That's right. Okay. And Rudy was close with him. How I don't know. That was so many years ago, you know. Was there a lot of money out in Jersey? Did you ever get money out there? We did, but not much.

Not much. I didn't do much business in Jersey. The was a really bad in Jersey. They don't play. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you ask any drug dealer that used to bring up product up the 95, you hit the turnpike, man. If you're black, you're getting pulled over.

One of those troopers. Yeah. I just, I left that alone. I had enough in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island. That was my main neighborhood. South Brooklyn, we had it. And these are what era? Is this the 80s?

In like 83, 84, it was really what I was rock and rolling. By mid-80s, I was doing really good. You know, financially bookmaking, loan sharking. And then I moved on. And again, once you, you know, you got a body under you, then Brooklyn South Homicide was really all over me. So if you're making all this money, why did you have to move on to the murder?

game. Maybe because, see, years ago, it's a lot different now. Years ago, to get straightened out, made, whatever they want to call it, you got to be able to show, you do time, you come home, you're able to do a piece of work. You've got to be able to be an earner. You know, there's certain boxes that you got, and I fit every criterion, Rudy X-B, and I said, yeah, when the books are right, it's going to happen. Okay.

So they wanted you to be an MVP. So you had to be a killer and a good earner and keep your mouth shut. On and on and on. Yeah. Well, my main thing, like I pled guilty to was two predicate acts, murder and long shocking. It's a real-go. What years were those? Murders?

The kid Sal was, I think, 91. Then he killed it brother months later because he paid them to do it. and he never paid me and he played cute so then he had a partner named Ivan Katz a Jewish guy, tons of money he's the one that had the connection with the insurance company to backdate the policy, he had AIDS.

We even had to bring blood you know because his blood was no good well explain that what? When you get an insurance policy right, that's worth a million dollars that were blood but Ivan, the Jewish guy had all the hooks and they got a policy on him.

So Vinnie come to me, Vinnie had Vinny Chaffey. He caught to me, says, Jimmy, I know you. It's going to sound like I'm a piece of shit. I'm jammed up with Rudy. Ivan helped me get a policy on my brother. I need you to give it for me. I see. So you took out an insurance policy.

I didn't. But they did. They took out an insurance policy on a guy they knew was dying of AIDS, but they wanted to pass him off as healthy to the insurance company so they could get his policy. policy. However they did. Had somebody else take the physical, the blood test,

they had the hooks. Damn. Was that a move back then? Was that a way? I mean, I suppose... He was jammed up with Rudy over $300,000. He owed me about $40 or $50,000, bookmaker buddy.

So he was, he had problems. Damn. And the insurance policy was worth whatever, more than what you owed? He never told me. So what happened was, we go ahead. I went to Rudy. I told him. He said, he kidding me?

I said, no, Rudy, he jammed up. He said, what do you want? Just do it. So we got him in a car. We told him we're going to do a piece of work. This is the guy with AIDS. Yeah. Was he a fag?

No, junkie. I mean, he was in the neighborhood. He yelled at Rudy for so many times breaking into old ladies' homes. He broke two Rudy's joker poker machines open back then, but Rudy gave him a pass because of his brother. So he was always right here with us. So when the brother came, Rudy said, get it done. Joe smashed, they said, get it done.

So we got him in a car, me and another guy. We dropped them on a bell parkway. And that was it. So I got a hold of Vinny. You shot him in the car? Yeah. You pulled the trigger? Well, what happened was he got spooked.

Because we told him we're going to do a piece of work. And we keep riding around looking for a spot. And he's like, I got to go to Badcham. I got to go to Badcham. So I grabbed him when he went to open the door. He got shot in his stomach there and pluto reached over the back and hit him again four times, five times more.

And we dumped them out of the Bible Parkway. Well, that was the... He had that good feeling, you know, and he said, you could see it in his eyes. When he seen him, we're just riding around. Stillwell Avenue, Bikoni Island, deserted areas, open lots. Right.

Especially back then. So, we got rid of them, and I'll tell you what, it was on a Bell Parkway by the Riding Academy. We got back on the highway. after we dumped them, get off the next exit, Rockaway Parkway, come back around. The time we get back around,

they were already there, the cops. So somebody came out of Rod Academy right away and found him, but he was gone. He was gone. And you guys got away? Yeah, we got away, yeah. Yeah, we got away. So I get home.

Now it was my friend Pluto's car. Black car with red seats and red, the blood was all over. We couldn't get it up. So finally, I had a collision shop. I had my hands and everything. And we bought it over there and we crushed it. Yeah, I'm sure that was a common way to get rid of the...

Listen, you couldn't wash it out. It was just all over. So how many... And that was the first hit you ever did or that was the second one? Well, first hit. But there was other ones I shot and they lived. Hmm. You know, like my niece had a boyfriend and he was 18, she was 15.

I won him, Danny. No, Sonny. Danny was his brother around me. I said, Sonny, if I hear you going near my 15-year-old niece again, you have a problem. He said, stand now. Sonny Burns. Oh, no, no, no, no. All of a sudden, my brother John calls me up out of breath.

Jimmy, I need your help. I just had to fight the two brothers. Not two brothers, and then another cousin jumped in. I said, John, I'm on my way out there. He's listened to me. When you pull up, they're going to come out with weapons, everything. I said, I'm worried about it. So there's a collision shop drive at a kid Kevin.

good wheelman. I skeptical, come on, we got to do a piece of work. Let's go, bro. So we get out there. I had a chase car to it. Walk away. Case of got out of hand, they had pistols. So I park on a dead end,

and when you look down the block, you can see my brother's house is here, and the Burns lived right across the street. So I called my brother, I say, John, do me a favor. When I tell you, come outside, soon as I come out, they're going to come running out. That's what I want.

I'm right at the corner. I got you. So, all right. John goes to walk out. Sonny runs out of the house. Danny, all of him. He reaches, he got a river, you have a two doors, slings up the back seat,

where has a baseball bat, runs towards my brother. I had a block LSC come and pulled up right there. I got out. Sonny, you made a mistake. Boom, boom, I hit him. I'm fine. The other two brothers, I shot at the, but I didn't hit him.

He lived. Hour later, I get a phone call. They arrested my brother. He blamed my brother. I did it. So I get a hold of Danny. And I said, Danny, make this right? He said, I will.

So my brother went to court. We bailed them out right away. We went back to court. He came in there, crutches and everything. He says, Your Honor, I'm not sure if that's the man that shot me. Prosecutor looked at me and gave me a dirty look. He knew. So then after that, it was one note.

You go to here. She's 15. He's 18. You're the DeKalcanthys, did they have like a social club downtown? Yeah. The gotties had the, you know, the Bergen hunting fish club. Yeah, we had, originally Rudy had 320 Fifth Avenue. And then he sold that building.

And we moved to 310 Fifth Avenue. It was a pizza parlor right next door. And we made a club out of it. We made a club out of it. Oceanside, Ocean View. I forgot what we named it. Okay. Yeah, remember, I walked away from the life at all one.

Mm. Yeah. Well, that's a long time you were in. I wasn't coming out. Never was going to come out. I mean, because you were really in the streets. That's like 25 years, 27 years. But I did a lot of jail time.

What's the first bid you did? The first actual prison bit. Well, I was arrested for a charge on a sole charge. That was one of them. And it was, you got stabbed. And my bail was really high. I was 17 years, 10 months old, still a jewelry.

They sent me to Rikers Island. You talk about... I'm waking up there, trying to steal my sneakers. I'm fucking old. So, make a long story, I only went there because I couldn't... The bail package, it took days to put it together

because the bail bonds were my dad and my dad and put his house up. So you can't just go there and say, yeah, and he goes, they won't see deeds. So I couldn't make... bail in Brooklyn House by then, so they shipped me to Rikers Island. Then about four or five days late, I got out, you know, and... You didn't do any serious time. On that one, no, because somebody got a hold of the kid and... Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer.

That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends and family. to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. And that was super common back in those days. They'd find the victim.

Everybody knows somebody. Everybody's with somebody. But we get back to Danny, Sonny, when I shot him, you think he'd learn. A year later, he runs away with my niece. So, John says, I need help. No problem. I was there, my brother.

We got in a car. I would grab Danny. We went in Danny's house in Staten Island. Oh, I swear, I don't know where they are. I put the pistol to his head. It's Danny, you know me. I'm telling you now, my niece. You don't give me an address for five minutes.

You're going to bring up. And he got his sister on the phone. He was at the sister's house. I'm calling out there. We went over there. No, no. father capitol Boulevard Stad down

I went over there First I went to the first address Nobody was there Then she said they were on Father Capitol Boulevard of townhouses Faced in Bay Street Or whatever it was And

The townhouse he was in was the N-1 So I said to my brother Johnny had his wife married there I said I want you to knock on the door And bang Sonny I know you're in there You and Dana open his door Now he knows his court I'm on the side waiting from the come out of the back.

Sure enough, he jumps out of the back. Over the one. I hit him again. I hit him in the back running. I went over. I turned him over. I put one right there. Everybody's that I don't know.

He shot him in the dick? I don't want to say it on TV, but yeah. Well, I shot him down there. I know he's on a piss bag and everything now in a shit bag. Wow. So you shot him a total of four times. Well, here's another thing. He got my daughter pregnant.

My daughter or my niece. So, but why do that? It's clearly, unless he kidnapped your niece, it sounds like she wanted to be there. I know that, but he's an adult. True. She's a minor. Very true.

How old was he? Oh, fuck with that. He was 19 at the second shoot. She was 16. I don't think that's justified. If he was 28, okay. Yeah, but when you're worn by somebody, you know. Yeah, if you're shot twice by them.

Why go back again? For sure. So, make a long story. shit, that was that. He never told about me. And then, uh, what would I profit? I gave them all that. So I'm I, you know, drilled. Um, so you hadn't done, you hadn't like pushed a button on somebody for the organization yet. No, that was not for the organization. What, what year was that that you actually, you know, did a hit, like a sanctioned hit? A sanctioned hit was the 91, or 91, 92. On due with AIDS. No, it was, uh, I can tell you the date. April 23rd.

91. And that was cats? That was, you know, I have a cat's the kid that had AIDS. We whacked them. Okay. Now, did that give you a bump? Like, why did you never end up officially getting strained out? Well, Rudy went and put it on record, you know, told it.

Then Vinny became boss. Vinny knew it. Who's Vinny? Tell us who Vinny. Vinny Oshin is the boss of the Cavalcanti when they killed Diamano for allegedly being gay. Oh, now tell us about this. Who's caught in a swingers club. If you watch sopranos.

Right. In The Sopranos, they catch Vito. Vito. In a swingers club dressed as a... So Johnny DiMato was caught in the swingers club. So Anthony Capo ran and told Rudy, Vinny, that some... The girlfriend told him this. And like I told another guy on a show, since when we listen to women and we kill the boss, because a woman says it?

Was Jimmy a boss? Johnny Deaumato was the boss, acting boss at the time. Wow. Because Jake and Riggie was, and that on Jake, and Jake died of stomach cancer, like in the soprano. Right. Jackie Appreel. Jackie Appreel. Okay.

Wow. Well, they all claim I was Ritchie because there was a child molest. I grabbed him and we took his eyes up. Well, blinded him. Let me just say that. I don't want to sound like an animal. No, please. You already talking about shooting a guy's nuts off.

I had a guy come to me, Frankie Gragiola. He was related to the Cessors. If you remember Carmine Cessor, he was a Colombo Calumbo, after that flip. His daughter was married to their family. So they went into the program. So Frankie comes to me,

says, I need a favor. There's this guy going around at Leston little boys and he heard somebody really close to me. I said, Frankie, his real name was Gragioa's last day. We had a boogie boy.

I know he was like this. I said, Frankie, what do you want me doing? He said, I want you to blind this motherfucker. I want to make sure he don't do it to another fucking kid. What's hit it for me, Frank? He said, well, the guy transports Coke. He's always got a couple keys.

He's got a van he'll be in, and he delivers those zip-up bags. Like, can you buy a new suit? He sits in, he hides him in there when he moves. I said, okay, I got you. Give me his information. We sat on him. Finally, we got him pulling up, and I put the light on, like Cop car. We got out and had to shield, everything, two guys.

and then we told him, you know, you're under, you know, you'll be a suspect, we're going to bring you in. So I had the kid Anthony Muscles. If you see the size of him, Andy Giadano, he's like a gorilla. So we push him in the truck, we take him. Anthony's going through all the boxes. He said, do you say, do you say in cops? At that point, the third guy had him right there going away and going right.

No Coke. But then we find his briefcase. Open it up. You know those little square album books, you flip. Mm-hmm. Naked boys, little boys. Now, I have zero tons to child molesters to today. Me too.

I always will. I said to Anthony Mosles, take hold of him, and he won't do it again. And it's while the car is moving. Well, no, we were parked by St. John's Cemetery by that dead end street there. We had them over there. That's on Woodhaven Boulevard. That's where the mob guys get buried. So that's where he lived back over there.

was back up in that that division. So we got him and we blinded him. And Anthony just kept beating him up and beating him out of car. He was breathing, like I told the age, he's about 302s. I don't know if he's that either way you'll be covered because you told us. So you took his eyes out as you're beating him. Yeah, I mean, everything was coming out. Wow.

And Anthony was grabbing him down in his private apartment. I don't know if he ever ripped those to his pants. Anthony was a treacherous guy. Another kid Michael with me, Michael Nelson. He was un-roved at another murder. His nickname was Michael Ford from Ovington, Brooklyn. Today's episode is brought to you by Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you wear on repeat?

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You know, you ever see that movie? Under Rage, Outrage. Under Siege? Yeah. He was one of the kids, and Sergio Tuccini's running in the small pot. That knows like this. So I said that what we're going to do is we're going to chop your Mercedes up

to get the money to pay the Rudy and me. Okay. No problem. Better yet, why don't we do this? We'll rent the truck, you all, and we'll total it out. And you file a claim. A U-Haul's got big money, insurance.

You file the claim, file a lawsuit. I got the attorney. I got him an attorney. Megalonged, he had a nose like this. She says, I wish I could get my nose fixed. We broke his nose right at the scene. So he's in his white Mercedes, and then he sees the big truck with Pluto. He was a guy that was around me.

Nod job. And Anthony Mussels. My brother Anthony was there. And I said, what we're going to do is we're going to Put him in there so he can make a claim too. So he's seen the truck. He says, wait, wait, why don't I stay outside the car? You and you hit it, I get in it.

I said, okay. So took the truck, cramed that car. I mean, demolished. That got in and we called the cops. Broke his nose at the scene. He said, my nose, you think I'll get it fixed? So we had him broke it. So I, Bob.

Give him the black eyes. He got his nose fixed. And he paid Rudy with the money. He got his settlement from the attorney. I got him. He got $100,000. I remember. He told me something.

I forgot what he gave me, 10, whatever it was. I'm fascinated by, like, the predatory mindset of the wise guys in that era. Everything was a hustle. Like, the first thing, you know, and Ruggiano said the same thing. Like, the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning is figure out how to get some illegal money. Correct. It's fascinating. Like, and the mob was so good.

You know, unlike drug dealers, it's pretty cut and dry. Like, they sell themselves. You guys could look at the workings of the economy and figure out how to squeeze money out of everyday normal things. You know what I mean? And that's why I'm still fascinated by the mob. Then I caught another body in the mid-90s. Can name Anthony Sonny.

That's Pluto's son. Tell us who Pluto is. Pluto's Anthony Sonny, Sr. And this is all part of the Decavalcanties? Well, he's what me, he was around me. Okay. So you had your own crew? Yeah, I had street guys, yeah.

Okay. So tell us about your crew real quick, because we want to know the structure and how I had Anthony Sonny, um, a kid Yu-wee, Caval Cap-Mike Miki Sapp. I had about good 10 guys, but solid, solid guys. Okay. And what was the, and there were earners or buttoned? Well, collision shops, like Mikey and Kevin were chopper. You know, like we had a legitimate closure shop.

We did all the chasing. And then one point, Michael came with me to do another murder. We'll get on to that later because it was later on. Always before then. So Anthony Sarni gets locked up with me. Pluto died now. He had dialysis. He died.

And he should take care of my boy. I was taking him to dialysis three days a week. Take care of my boy. I'm not going to let him. As Tony, I don't say it. Your name is Tony. Don't say that. He's like a, you know.

And his son, I raised him. So we went to do a score on an old Westy guy, Irish guy, Jack McInady. And went out to home down New Jersey, big money there. Matter of fact, Moie Poveridge lived on a block. When we went to court, he showed up a lot of them. And there was a diamond guy coming home. We were supposed to take him.

We got in the house. Wasn't there. The car was outside. All of a sudden, we're going through a house looking for, you know, where there's jewelry he is and all. He walks in on us. So I told him, get down. Now look at my face.

Don't look at my face. He says, get out of my house. You're here to rob my house. So we took off. We get to the Garden State Parkway's roadblock. They got us. And Anthony was in jail. and couldn't get bail, 75,000 was.

If I put it up, it's not going to look good. Because when I got arrested, it said, Soraco and Brooklyn Croties are apprehended in Homedale, New Jersey. So I couldn't put it up. So he had a brother named Gussie. Pluto's brother's name was Gussie. He owned New Yuchick Florist by my mom in his hospital. I don't know if you know.

So we went to Gussie. First I went to Frankie Giuliano. He was a captain. His father, his brother was a captain in the Gambino family. Frankie was a wise guy in the Gambino family. So I was close with Frankie. I said, Frankie, you got a guy around your Gusi. His nephew's in jail.

He won't bail him out. What? Yeah, I got pinch with him on that case. No problem. Come on. He want to talk to go, I know. The kids are junkie or drunk. I smoke.

He's Gus. You're not going to? Okay. Frankie says, tonight we come back. We fire bomb his florist. So he made a cocktail, we fired bomb this forest On 48th Street, New Yutrick. Is that Manhattan?

No, Brooklyn. Okay. By the mom in his hospital. And so then all of a sudden, next day, Gussie calls me up. No, I'm not going to trust anything he's saying. He said, I want you to know, I bailed my nephew out. I just thank you, Gus. That's nice of you.

I don't know if he's wired or not. Anthony gets home, not knowing he flipped in there. Hmm. I don't know it. First court date. He don't show up. Now, you know what happens. They pull your bell.

I get home. I'm hot. He lived in my basement. Anthony, why didn't you go to court? Oh, leave me alone. I called him out of court and told him I didn't feel good. It's a Monday morning. Why didn't you call him, Anthony?

So, man, he says to me, leave me alone. I'm starting to sleep. I want to splutting his head open right there. I picked up, and I hit him, boom. He was as big as his father. Didn't even phase him. Hit him again. Then his mother heard the script.

She'd come down. She'd please leave my baby alone. Okay. Next court date, he don't show up. Rudy, I tell Rudy. Rudy says, he makes calls. He's got Jersey connections. The kid's bad.

Get him out of the house. Because at that point, Rudy owned that building and Joe Smash. Who was he flipping on? Me. But here it was. I used it for collecting money, envelopes. nothing violent. Like, go see Casal Jewelers, go see this one.

He goes, go pick up the envelope Sherlock Bunny. So he could hurt Rudy now. That's caused me a problem. You bring me cancer. You're going to die. So now he says, give him him. So we did. What did you get in the car with me?

We didn't come near me no more. So I put a team together. I gave them the pistol. It was a 25 caliber. And they got him in a car. I brought him to Owlhead Park. and then shot him and killed him there. And he was the one living in your basement.

I watch him grow up with the kid. It does bother me. Let me tell you. I'll be honest with you. You know, when I go to church, I still light a candle for him. You know, it just, it was like when your boss tells you to do something,

you don't, you're gone. And that was back in the day when, if you flipped, you really would get done in. Oh, without a doubt. Nowadays, they hang out with rats. Right. Yeah. They go back to the neighborhoods.

Yeah, they're making YouTube content. Yeah. I mean, that was just another one. It was another one with a Raymond Giudano. He was around Joe Watts. We had a bookmaking dispute. Joe Watts came down, sat with Rudy. They put us both at the table.

And Raymond just did not want to give in. And he had an attitude. Joe Watts and Rudy says, you know what? Waltese can't seem to come to an agreement. Won't you do this? You two handle it. That's my pleasure. I left there.

Now, the club is on 2nd Street. His wife's family's on 6th Street. So I watch when he leaves. He goes to 6th Street. I run home. I get Pluto. Pluto lived upstairs to me up time. I'm still alive.

I was telling him, we've got to do something. Let's go. He loved it. Pluto loved it. We're sitting on his house. I know exactly where he lives at the time now. I've been there hundred times. He was up the block.

He has son in his car. So I was in his life in his 20s. Buckmaker, too. As soon as he got out of a car, we got him fired on him. We didn't hit him. We didn't hit them. The next day I got called to the club by Rudy.

Joe Watts is there again. Listen, it's over with now. And they came up with a number, and he paid me. Hmm. That's when disputes really, the boss really did. 80s, 90s, if you didn't have a gun, you're in trouble. For sure. Now they don't want no more violence in the mob.

They ain't got to last. Right. No, no way. Because we're not banks. What are we going to send you a letter? We're going to ruin your credit. Only what way are I collected the money. Well, I heard that the Detroit families, because they still got good, you know, sports books and shit, they're still making money out of that.

If a guy doesn't, if a guy doesn't pay you, it's just let him go. I'll just scare them, shake them up, slap them. But as far as bird is, they don't want no part of it. But with sports books, unless you have, it's not like Shylock and where I came out of my pocket to give loan you money and you don't want to pay me. Now I'm really out. With a sports book, we just, it's just verbal. It's just a contract between two people, and if you don't pay me, I didn't lose anything. I know it's the principle of it.

I've argued about it with a lot of mob guys. It's not the principle. When you win, you want to get paid. So you start to feel like he took a shot at you. When you won, was your money there? When you're lost, you come up lame? Right. Of course.

If you already paid him, if you've already paid the guy when he hit, and then now he hit you don't want to pay he doesn't want to pay you I get that but it's like it doesn't seem like as much of a loss

as oh I gave you $100,000 and now you ran off on me Absolutely I know what you mean A lot of times I turn my bookmaking money into loan shop You can't pay me to $3,000 don't worry about it you're gonna pay me

90 a week three points I'll try out and that little bit until you pay me by $3,000 nothing comes off the top I don't give a fuck what it is So you would just turn if a guy couldn't pay you for a gambling.

We turned into Sherlock money. Yeah. That was good business, Shylocking? I loved it. How much money did you have on the street at your height? Well, Rudy and Joe had over a million each. I had about three of mine, 300. Wow.

And who were these people taking money, borrowing money? Just regular. When you get the known as a loan shock, and Rudy and Joe was the biggest loan shocks. Everybody knows that. And they know that they'd come there and borrow money. And they were small ones, Rudy said, yeah, this guy needs five grand.

You handle it. Because I would take the money of Rudy for one point and charge them two, three. Of a small one, four, five. A guy, a guy, balls a thousand. 50 a week till you give me my thousand. Nothing comes off the top. Right.

So you would actually use Rudy's bank to lend out to your people? Yeah. Well, that's what banks do. They borrow from other banks and then just charge a point. Yeah. At that point, Rudy, Rudy trust me with everything now. We were going five, six years.

Never missed a payment. No, no. Money was outside if we settled up in the club. And these are legitimate businesses, small businesses from the neighborhood. One, elegant limousine at Howard Beach. That's who got the father, John Gotti's senior man at me. Because there was a guy named Bob Stanley owned the limousine company. And I dated his daughter, Kim.

And he kept saying, can you borrow me 50? He was a general gamble. 50, 50, 50. Before you know, he was at 300. Rudy says enough's enough. Joe Spash went over there and told him that. So they ran to Bobby God, he again. He said, what is this kid doing in our neighborhood?

I own this neighborhood. They shouldn't be doing business in this neighborhood. So Rudy got that squashed. Then there was another one, Jimmy Amico, Cross Bay Boulevard, Jeddah Dambler. I had him up to $2.250. And he tried to run the junior. And junior sent,

I think Bobby Borrello again to the Blue Fountain Diner and they sat over and Rudy said, listen, it's not Jimmy's money, it's mine, he's a captain. Okay? Bobby Bello looked at me and said, I know this is yours. So he paid up? Yeah.

So a lot of... But they paid it and they made him pay him. So Jimmy Amico made a statement to one of the wise guys, Joe Smash. Joe Smash says, I don't care, you get my fucking money. He's Joe. I ain't afraid of nobody. I got a shotgun in my truck. Anybody wants to come near me?

Oh, yeah, Joe said? We'll see. After the sit down, so Joe asked him, listen, I'm a friend. It means a wise guy. That means, this guy spoke to me out of turn. So they said, give him a beating, but they'll kill him.

Okay. So I laud him downtown Brooklyn on Carroll Street. Pulls up on his motorcycle. He says, well, I'm glad everything's straightened out. We're friends again. And we went to work. on him. Joe Smash, at his age, cracked him good with a bat, the back of the head, and we just went to work on him. There was a kid Ronald Holmes. We all just went to work on, put him in

hospital. Then he pulled up on his motorcycle, Holly Davis, well, it's a nice one. I kept it. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, joined thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Who do you think Anthony Soprano, Tony Soprano, is based off? Is that being? Bilarmo. Absolutely. Okay. So not Rudy. We had Wiggles, strip club, viny had. Where was that?

In Queens, on Queens Boulevard. So that was supposed to be the Bada Bing. It was actually called Wiggles. Okay. So, and did Vinnie come after Rudy? No. When the boss died... When you say the boss, who do you mean?

De Amato, the one they killed. Right. Look at me. They didn't kill that guy for being in the swingers' club. And I told this, and I'll tell it again and again. The feds, whoever liked it. They wanted him out of there. There was a guy named Corky they wanted in charge.

Rudy loved Corky Vinny loved Corky Johnny D. Models, General Gambler, coqued. So when they heard his girlfriend tell Anthony Capo,

oh, he's half gay, he goes to swing his club, and they took it a van with that and killed him. They were looking for a reason. And then when I went on another show...

So hang on, I'm sorry. Because I want to stick with people that don't understand this life. I'm trying to make it, put it in layman's terms. So after Johnny Diomato gets whacked for allegedly being half a fruit, who becomes boss then?

Vinnie Palermo. Vinny Palermo. Right. And he's one of the shooters. Wow. No, Diomado was Anthony Capo and Victor DiChiara, aka Whitey. They picked him up at his house and they shot him. They bought him to Rudy's garage.

They chop him up? Chop them up. They bought him up to Pennsylvania, New York, somewhere they buried him. They never found his body. Wow. And he was just missing. He was. And he was just missing for years.

Never found. Still never found him. Today's episode is also sponsored by Shopify. If you've been sitting on a business idea, Shopify makes it easy to finally make it happen. Everything you need to start selling is already there from day one. When we have merch lines here at the Connect and we want to get all that organized, we use Shopify. Shopify is the platform built so nothing stands between you and your first sale. When that first customer is ready to pay, Shopify checkout helps more of them finish the purchase.

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Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash Mitchell. Once again, that's Shopify.com slash M-I-T-H-E-L-L-L. Did that, were there a lot of cases like that of mob hits where guys would just disappear? Their wives would call them, where's my, where's my Vinny, where's my Rudy? And they would just be gone. We don't know. We're going to find out. Don't worry.

You know, they give the bullshit story. Don't want. When we find out, whoever did this is going to pay for it. And so after Johnny's out of the picture, Vinny, who was, was he a captain? Captain, Kevin Rudy Weequal. Okay. At that point, Vinny, there was a three-man panel at first who was going to take it. Vinny wound up taking him over.

Did he have to be violent and committing any utter hits or did they just vote him in? No, but he did order a hit on, uh, uh, uh, uh, Charlie Mojury from Staten Island, he said a couple of guys out there that he'd get the job done. He lived next door to State Trooper. So when they see the cop car in the drive or whatever, they go all nervous.

They're like, I don't know, Vinny, his cop car's always there, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this guy, Vinny, tell us about him. You know, obviously, David Chase based Tony Sopranos character off of this guy. What was he like compared to the more well-known bosses from the five families, you know, the godies, the, you name it,

the head of the bananas. What was he like? Vinny was a selfish, greedy bastard. Ain't no solid doubt about it. I'll say it to his face, too. We did a score real quick. It was a payroll heist, and I was tipped off. There was a chicken plant.

A lot of Hispanics worked there. So, you know, they got to pay them cash. So they get a check, they sign it, and the Jewish people in the chicken plant wood, there was on Utica Avenue or something. So we sat on the kid, sure know, come down, got off the train station by 86th Street, come down on the steps with a duffel bag,

go in the bank, go behind the counter. They let them in. That's how frequent it was. We sat on it one week, two weeks, everything consistent. Thursday, same time, by both. Just look like a regular kid in a denim jacket. So, and now, remind you, my hook was in the bank, a girl tipping me off. Wow.

So what do we do? We sit on it. And I go back to Rudy, yes, I got a score, I'll do. And I told him about it. He's listened to me, take Vinny with you. Vinny was a captain at the time. Minnie's good at this stuff. Okay.

I take Vinny with me, I sit on it. He said, yeah, next week we take him. So I got Anthony Mussels waiting in the train station for the game. Okay, he's coming down the stairs now, me and many are watching. I can't be near there because the bank people know me. I pick up the girl, take it to lunch. So I stood a block away. Just watch.

Enough where anybody interfered at a pistol. I would have taken out of it. And you guys have radios? Is that how you're communicating? Yeah. Radio, yeah. We got scanners mostly to hear if there's a cop call. Right.

Cops heading to a bank, you know, whatever. This kid comes out of the bank. Come out of the thing. Vinnie's watching it. When he's walking his dog. That's how good he was. Comes out, he goes up the top of the stairs. Tommy got the top of the stairs,

anti-muscle by your height by putting about 50 more pounds on your muscle. He hit this poor kid. He went down the stairs. Bag's laying out of his out cold. When he comes over, picks up the bag, gets in his car, picks up his dog. Yeah, we got it.

Next day, comes to the club. Rudy says, what do we get? He says, 72,000. It was 111 and change. The tell her, she said they questioned me and questioned me. I know it was in there. It was 111 and changed.

But I didn't let it know to the extent I used her for a, you know. So Vinny, again, gone 40 grand right off the top. Right. That's the kind of guy he was. You just picked up a bag. You didn't even hit the guy. You just picked him up and fucking were gone in 20 seconds. That's what I'm saying.

So now when I'm away, Rudy died. I get pinched January 23rd with Nikki Carrazo, Lenny D. Maria, their Gambino bosses. I got pinched on the case with them. What happened? What was the case? Hijacking. There was an undercover agent with a CI, Sunny Bamboo. You ever see the movie, You Goodfellas? Come on.

You know the guy comes over and wants his check when Joe Pesci said, you know, and he hit him in the hell at the bottle. Yeah. The owner of that thing was his real name was Sunny Bamboo. That was the guy that wore the white, but not the actor. Okay, so he was a club owner And you guys, obviously, you guys had some hooks on him.

So, yeah. Lanny sends him, comes to the club with him, not the agent. Well, you know, we didn't know he's an agent, the other guy. Comes to the club with him, he says, Rudy, do me a favor. I need you to lend this guy, 10,000.

He's been around me for years. His brother was brewing all the guy to kill, but the Cadarian. He's good for gold for it. I don't want to give it to him. because I got a long relationship with him. You know how that is. You let a friend, money.

What happens? We said, no problem. He said, I'm going to do with him. So I give him the 10. I tell him, I'm going to meet you every week. He says, if you ever had to swag stuff, I got everything coming out of Kennedy Airport. I said, that's my thing.

Lenny says, Jimmy, do business with him. I give you permission. We got a warehouse. Donna Karen Dress of a bean dollar load. It's that. Okay, yeah. So tell us about that real quick. Before you talk about the case,

tell us about the merchandise, the heisted. We got everything coming at it. But who knew the feds are giving it to us? No shit. So it's... We get to the warehouse. They're setting up the hijacking. That was just stolen stuff they had in confiscation, like from...

And they're giving it to Sonny to bring to us or have us go take it somewhere, get us on tape. The whole warehouse was bugged. Wow. Plus, they had a social club a block away, fully were bugged. Wow. So you guys were selling... You thought you were buying stolen merch from people that were...

hijacking it from JFK. Buy install the merchandise, and then he'll tell me there's a truck come and take it. We take it. It was all set up. You know, to me it was a trapman, but how do you lend him the money? And then he actually says, I'm having a party out in Hamptons. I'm bringing my brother, Lauren, we're going into Hamptons. I need a key of Coke.

I said, Sonny, I don't deal with drugs. Jimmy, you know everybody. So I pick up the phone, this kid, tech. Big drug deal in South Brooklyn I's tech I need a favor I need you to come see me

not doing nothing wrong I think I'm not selling so he leaves it with me son he comes brings his brother-in-law in wants you to be my brother-law Steve Steve Browse's name FBI agent

but I don't know what he said to be his brother-in-law and this guy's been a street guy all his life not like he fell out of the tree so he didn't he brought the agent of his brother-in-law we believe them

he's betting with us everything. Chris Columbo, he got mad at me now because I bought an agent to him. I didn't bring it. I got fooled, too. I went to jail. Fort Dex.

He didn't go to jail. So, Nagelago Sto shot, they sweep this all up. January 23rd, 1997, 47 arrested. Wow.

And so you went down with, who was in that case? The Gaudi people, you. Those Gambito people. There was a little crazy guy, Danny Rist. He was a wise guy.

It was 47th, but a lot of civilians. One of them was against Sonny's brother, Danny, that I shot. The Sonny that I shot, his brother was in there. So we get in there that they separate, they moved me to MCC when we're on MDC. So my lawyer, Jimmy DePietro, says, Your Honor, I can't quite grasp. They didn't give the guy bail. Why did he transfer him? I can't quite, he says,

he says, he says, there's reason, Block said, Judge Block. He says, because there's too many cooperators. This is. Well, my client ain't cooperated. He shouldn't have been the one moved. Danny Burns, flipped. He told him about the shooting.

He was a brother. So Fed's had it all coming in. Right. So a lot of these cases, it's interesting because, you know, a mobster and associate could get picked up for a hijacking case and to save himself,

he'll talk about a body that he did 10 years ago. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah, and it seems like all of those murders eventually got solved just by informants who years later... You know what the feds want to do? They want to solve murders.

So they look good. And the prosecutors. Hey, we solved 27 murders. That's all it's about, especially lecture time. Yeah. It seems like the mafia guys specifically got the best deals from all the organized crime in America who's cooperated. it seems like you guys got the best deals. Because, I mean, these acts of brutality,

taking a guy's eyes out, all due respect. I'm just looking at it from... Like John Lester. Yeah, I know, I know. I'm just thinking about all the people we've interviewed from Dom, from the bananas, Dom Sikali to Sammy, you know, to the rest of them. You know, you guys have all have multiple bodies on you.

It's like drug dealers couldn't get those kind of deals. You know, cartel guys couldn't get those kind of deals. And honestly, I actually, you know, one of the ages, I says, why is these other guys the Witsack unit? I'm in the Witsack unit now. That guy doing 20 years, Beckskin Rudy, he was one of the top guys. And when I went in there, show, you're Italian, you're going home in a couple years. Now, remind you, Vinny was in them, there's five only units. There's only like 40 guys in the unit.

And some of them are less. Vinny goes all but two and a half years. Anthony Rotondo, Captain, he went home in two years. Anthony Capo went home in three years. I'm there five years already. I said enough is enough. You know?

You got to remember, I wasn't indicted on these charges. No, they knew about it was only a matter of time. But before you indicted, my lawyer made clear to me you get a better deal. Because they ain't got to work as hard. So I told you, I got picked up. June 8th. 97.

97. I flipped December 23rd, two days before Christmas. I signed my cooperation agreement. And then the day after Christmas, they just came up to the floor. I'm in MDC. Nobody knows I flipped. Or maybe some suspected it.

And they come up to MDC, lockdown, lockdown. It took me right out. Everybody started screaming. They knew it. But it seems like who are you ratting on? What do you know? who are the targets that they want you to give up?

Gotti, because he tried to plot it to kill me. Gene Gotti? John Gotti. John Gotti. John Gotti Jr. Okay. Because I had beefs with him multiple. Okay.

And is he in... But then a law on TV said he didn't know me, but then when Jerry Capice he dropped an article at 04, that he was charged with conspiracy to murder Jimmy Easy, then he said, oh, maybe I do... Why did John Gotti Jr. why you dead? What happened was... It was the Sherlock problem with his following him.

And pretty much I was told, just lay low at Howard Beach. Leave it alone. But I sold fireworks for over 20 years. I was one of the biggest in New York. I had trucks coming from there. From end of April, beginning, I had warehouses. They're coming in. I'm bringing them in.

I'm bringing out a lot. I'm bringing tons. So he reaches out to me. My father lived on Colhancy Street. He was around the corner was a guy, named Jimmy D. Ambrosie or Michael Dianbrose, they're brothers. I forgot which one was there. They called me around the corner, Jr. I says, let me talk to it. He says, listen, what are you doing? Now you're back in, John, my brother Anthony sells a little bit of fireworks. When I say a little bit,

you know, who is he hurting? You know, he ain't, well, it stops here unless he pays $5,000. What? I'm selling him for Rudy. By saying that to him, a wise guy, you were letting them know nothing you can do now. It's a nice way to say. But I said it sarcastically. And remind you, when I went over there, I already knew I had no love with the game of me. Oh, God, he had a 38 in my back, hammer back revolver. He didn't have went to pick up his heads out, blue his brains all over the streets.

And everybody knows it. Anybody in the street knew me back then. I remember, I'm off the streets 21 years. So all these young kids who want to get on social media and blast me. Do your homework first. I plan to these charges. So we had the beef there. Rudy called me up.

He said, listen, they're reaching out to me again. What happened? I told him. He's lay low. I'm telling you, lay low. I said, no, fuck him. So I carried a pistol everywhere I went. So basically, you were just selling,

you were just operating on their turf. Yeah, but I did it for 20 years. Nobody had a problem. But the kid, D.M. But the kid, D.M.Rose, he must have told him, we're losing a lot of business. The kid, Jimmy, you know, he's one of the biggest. Now, he's one of the biggest.

In that era, did you really have to have permission, depending on what family you were part of? If you wanted to operate in a different family's neighborhood, were you technically supposed to have permission? Or was that not really enforced? Like Rudy put on record, he's with me now. Any problems, he's what me. At that point, you're not supposed to touch me and do nothing to me. And I'm allowed to do whatever I want because I'm doing it for Rudy, even though it's buying,

but I still kick up to him. I see. So it's not really about the territory. It's about having permission from the family. You grew up in Howard Beach to 15 years old. You knew whatever. And then you were to Brooklyn crew, Jersey crew, but based out of Brooklyn. So that I think agitated him.

I see. So you were through all of your hustling and money making, you still did have to kick up to the made guys. Well, yeah, like Rudy, I put this money out in the street for him. Right. You know, this. Everything like I did, I did a score, took a truckload of Panasonic Ham quarters. the guy Bob Stanley had a Jewish guy, Syrosanthaw around him,

got borrowing off me. He worked for an electronic company that supplied all the big sales. So he got so jammed up at Atlantic City with me. And, you know, your money, right? Yeah. So I went to a site, you got to come up with this money. Now, remember, he lived in Syosset,

Roslyn. Average home of street, he had money. So he says, I got a score to do for you. He said, Harris Marina, casino and Burgantine. He's also sent him 450-something-com quarters. I need you to intercept it. Show up the day before. What a truck.

I'm here from Harris Marina. So the guy at the gate gave me all the time. No, we're delivering that tomorrow. No, we need it today. We're doing a big ad there. We're giving a giveaway. So side comes out. What's the problem?

Who are you? We play the game. If you want to pick them up, let them haul it. We're not taking it out of the other. Don't worry about it. So we load back the truck up. Oh man Jack McInetti. Oh, Westie.

This is what James Coleman. The crazy good. Back the truck up. They loaded it on. Off we went. Back then, they were like the portable ones that they first came out. You might be too young. No, and the little flip, the little screen that flips open.

A little screen that flips to the traveling case. Those are hot. Panasonic PV 510s, they were online for like 2400. I had 450 something of them. And so then, and what do you do? Now that you got 450 cameras, how do you sell them on the black market? Okay. What I do is I go to guys I could trust.

That own legitimate. No, like one of them was Bob Stanley because I was still talking to before he took his limousine company. Because when I came down outside, I came down on him too. And we had some in his basement. I had some in my father's basement. You know, I was putting them all over. And so you just kind of distribute them to people that you know. They're not even put a stolen yet, I don't think.

You know, so I got a day or two to get, you know, and I did. I got them. Then I put word out and I was selling them. And how much do you sell them for if they retail for $2,500? And you were my good friend, $1,000. Right. But not $15, $1,000. It wasn't so much the price of them.

When they first came out, they were demand. Supplying demand. they were hard to get. So that's like a half a million dollars worth of electron? No, about 900,000. That's what they value in the school. Well, when it came out, they valued at $900, $970, whatever it was. Right.

But you guys sell them on the street for whatever half of them. And the pain, everybody. And some I gave away, like Rudy, I gave one. Joe Smash, I gave one. My sister I gave one. My dad gave one. What she heard of how to use it. And so at the end of it, I think I walked away about it.

After paying everybody, it cleared about 600. And how much did you, did the guy who hooked you up with the score originally owe you? Well, that's the thing. He owed me like two something. So we had to pay that to Rudy. But that's the point, though, is like you probably, through your shy locking business, it puts you on to so many other scores and opportunities. Now you're a money guy.

They look at you as a money guy. I need 10 grand. Jimmy Easy's got it. I need 20 grand. I go Jimmy Easy. Today's episode is sponsored by Quo. I use Quo all the time, you guys, and if you own a business, listen up. You know that feeling when you're juggling five things at once and your phone rings and you just let it go?

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Okay, so the Sopranos portrays the family as kind of, kind of like, I don't know how to, I don't know how to explain it. Like, it portrays them as having beef with the New York families and maybe not being as sophisticated. Were there ever? I don't know if that had accurate because honestly, John Gotti had a problem with it. a guy named Fred Weiss. And he reached out to us, he said, do me a favor. He was involved with, like, the garbage. There was a strike or something.

We couldn't dump. And our trucks, we need to dump. You know what I mean? Right. So he was a boss. We tell him let us dump. And then there was some, another beef with him with medical waste. It's something like the disposal of the needles was drawn in the wrong place.

Somebody got a big ticket because of him. So John had a little argument with him. Then the guy got arrested. So when he got arrested, then he switched lawyers after three months into the case. That's usually a sign. The guy went bad. Right. So at that point, John reached out to the Jersey crew us, and he says, do me a favor.

Because John was our backbone. He really was. And we got him. They got him. Vinnie Palermo killed him. And Jimmy Gallo. the two shooters. There was a

Victor Dici everywhere. There was a lot of drivers there and all that, backup cars, you know, protect them. In case there's a cop coming to the scene

after the shots, we drive right into them. Right. Rather have an accident to have a guy go to jail for murder. Of course. When you say John was the backbone,

you talk about John Gotti? He was the backbone of your... Cavacanties, yes. Okay, explain that. John Riggie was the original boss when I started coming around. John was close with John, two Johns.

They called him the Eagle. So when he went away, Jake was in charge, died of stomach cancer, colon cancer, I forgot what it was. And then Johnny Diomato, they put him acting until they decide. He was jammed up. So when I made a statement on one of these shows, that's bullshit. He did not get killed because a woman said he might be gay.

Because it is a dead set to the bar. So they ran with that. And when this agent, Seamus, you might have seen an interview on Hollywood Wade. When Seamus did it, he's in, and Hollywood Wade says, you know, I interviewed a guy Jimmy and you see, I don't know if you know him. Yeah, I don't. He says he brought up a valid point. Since when do we talk to women?

Like I said, why are you having that conversation with my girlfriend about sex and swingers and this and that? He said, he's right in that fraction. That wasn't the only reason because there's gambling problem and cope. But he didn't say that on there. But that's what it was. The gambling problem, he had the decapitante. He's borrowing money for the families to pay his debts. So really, all the captains are, and the whole family is responsible for the money that he's borrowing.

Right. That's a good reason then. So he said that was the second reason. So that's what they said, Rudy Farone, my boss, and Vinnie and M, they said, you know. But what did John Gotti have to do with the DeCalcanty's? Like, did he have influence within the family? Yeah. Like the way in the show, what's his name, Johnny Sack had influence within the Sopranos?

Yeah. Okay. The eagle. Now you're going to remember, now we're going back 40 years. I was just met the eagle. So I don't know why, how they developed their relationship, you know, you don't X. Certain things you just don't X, you know. And then when Jake died and then DiMato took over, they didn't like them.

So they summoned him like they needed to see him somewhere. So he sends Anthony Capo to pick him up. And Victor Whitey DeCherra. They got him in the car, he's in the backseat. and Vinny turned around, shot him in the chest. And then Victor said he's still moving. Hit him again. They get him to Rudy's house.

They cut him up in the garage. And this is who? Rudy Faro, my boss. Okay. And he was a captain. Yeah. And why do they want him gone? Because they thought he was gay.

Oh, you're talking about this is the Jimmy hit. This is the Johnny DiMato. Yes. I get confused myself something. Sometimes. Yeah. Well, he's got a brother name. There's Johnny and Frankie, two brothers.

Tell me about the garbage. Was the DeCabalcanti and yourself? Were you guys into the garbage business? Rudy had a company name at she owns. That's your own carding. And if you watch soprano, Barone carding. Yeah. Right.

It's too coincidental. Right. Exactly. Now, did you have any garbage? money coming in? No. No. No. What do you think the biggest money was in Brooklyn? Was it Shylocking? Was it sports booking?

Rocking, bookmaking? Uh-huh. Back then, they didn't have these sports apps. No, of course not. And then, not only that, the sports apps don't give you credit. Right. The General Gambler was swear that he's going to pay you. You know how it is.

I had one guy, named was Fast Eddie. Tell you a quick story. If there was a twin, you were him. Big Tolskiy. So this guy never bets horses in my office. I buy an office, you know, my own bookmaking office. So he calls in.

He always bets basketball, football, $30, $40 a game. So one day I come in the office and I see it, Eddie Leach, we record all our conversation, everything. And we stamped the ticket when this keeps the clerk honest, so he can't back this. He bet a horse $50, $15. It's okay. I'm looking at the next day of the paper. It was like a holiday weekend. They ran at 12 instead of 1.

All the time got pushed back to 12. Bowhead. You know, make the day. It was like a day before Thanksgiving, whatever it was, it was a holiday. So he knew that, but he didn't think the office did it. And they didn't. He called in a bet, first race.

And reminded, they go off 1 o'clock. We think, call before 1. If it's the betting, $50. I said, Eddie Leach, well, he's getting all this money. What do he win it on? He bet a horse. And I looked at into it. Post time was 12 o'clock.

He bet it at $12.50 something. So it doesn't get. He knew the results already. Okay. That I don't tolerate. Right. Didn't say nothing to him. When he went to mean him that day,

I'd get in the car. So let me ask you something, Eddie. Do I look stupid to you? He's, what he means, Jimmy. I'll tell you what I mean. I took the gun and out. I put in his belly. you ever take a fucking shot at me again.

I'll blow your fucking head off. You hear me? I start, please, please, please. I won't do it again. I won't do it. And then I just split his head open. I said, now remember,

don't you ever take a shot at me again? You know, you had, the general gamblers. Yeah, you had to bust heads. And then you got guys, I had a kid under Nicky Carazzo was a captain and well respected, well respected with the Gambinos.

He was under John. He had a nephew bet, I don't know it's Nikki's nephew. Runs up. He wins one week. Winns another week. Third week, lose like six grand, five grand, whatever it was. So he said, listen, I got the money, but my uncle wants to pay you so he could tell you,

don't take no more bets from him. I said, okay. Me like an idiot, tell me where to go. I don't know. I don't know. I heard Nikki Carozle's name years ago. But I didn't know when I walked in and that was who I was meeting. He says, who are a fuck are you with?

Who are you to come in here and demand money? I was told to come in here by your nephew that you wanted to tell me, don't take more of my bets from. Well, I'm telling you right now, you ain't getting paid. You want to get paid. You have a good fella come get the money. And then Joe Spasher already went down and I got the money. See, that's what I'm saying.

You've got to be with somebody. Yeah, because they're not going to pay you the extortion money or whatever they owe you. If I wasn't willing nobody, I would have never got that book back of money. So speaking of that, was there still extortion rackets? by the time you were knocking around? Not legitimate people. Not me at least and not Rudy or John. No, they won't like that.

Okay. You know, like we had collision shops that were cutting up cars. And even if they won't cutting up cars, there was always beefs with the tow trucks. Who got there first? They're fighting. They were always with somebody. So we put them on record with us,

and then they would pay me like two, three hundred a week back then. Right. But the beauty, like, somebody else asked me, but what kind of money is? It's not so much the money. you get your foot in the door. Right. Somebody backs in to my car, fix it.

Right. If I want to meet somebody, meet me at the collision shop. It's like having a small piece of ownership. Yeah. Yeah. And did you guys have, was there, like, you know, small money, like, that you would shake down, like jerk off parlors or drug dealers that you shook down? Drug dealers.

So you did shake down drug dealers. Anybody doing something illegal, and I know about it, and he wasn't with nobody, I'll go after them. Really? So you shook down guys getting money from selling coke and heroin and shit? Yeah. Black guys? Puerto Rican guys? Like who are mixed?

We got a couple of the ones, yeah. There were also Italians that were selling drugs too. Yeah. And this was in your turf, Brooklyn. Brooklyn, Queens. Like, if you tip me off, like I had real quick, Tommy Carada. Not Tommy Carreta, you know, Tommy Carreta. Not him.

Tommy Corretta's name was. He was from Shoots at Bay. By the Rindazzo's Klanbaugh. He said, Jimmy, I need your help. I got this kid coming. He's a big Coke dealer. I know where he's picking the drugs up. He's on his way home.

I need you to take him. I was like 19 years old. I said, yeah. So I got out of the car with a pistol to him. Give me everything. He didn't get fired him. Get back in the car, take off. A bag of mushrooms.

Those ones he elucidate on? I told the kid Tommy, I said, I'll make you take these things for what you did to me. Yeah. You know, that one we took. Then we took this guy, Cuba. He was a Cuban guy. We took him on Ocean Avenue.

We took a bunch of a bit. Then we took another one, old man Jack. He was smart. He would come to that. That was his one day. And there was his drug dealer. I lived on Ocean Park. He sold it at St. John's College.

He went to. And he was selling steroids, coke, heroin. Back then, I think it was a man. in ecstasy too, I remember. This is 35 years. He lived in an apartment building. You know how hard it is? Kick a door down in the apartment building everybody?

I was, Jack, how are we going to get this guy? What if I lower you down from the room? I'm afraid of heights. He said, I got another idea. He said, meet me. Let me sit on to get his schedule. So he says, all right, come with me, dressing jeans, like we're cops.

Okay. Jack gives me the vest, the chain. bang on the door. He looks through the people. What do you want? Police, open up. For what? I didn't do nothing wrong.

Well, we got a picture. He shows a picture of a girl dead. Jack had all the tricks of the trick. This girl was last seen coming out of the apartment. You don't want to talk about it or we'll get a search warrant and come in there. No, no, hold on. He's thinking, I didn't do nice.

I'll talk to these guys. We got it in there, we took them. It was a good one. It was a good score? Yeah. What did you guys take out? There was about a key of Coke, about a third of key of heroin and jewelry, guns, money. And let me tell you something.

The guy was a big bustle-bound kid. He's had cancuffed. I started walking through the rooms when Jack's asking about the girl. He said, wait a minute. What's this guy doing? And he's like, wait a minute. You sure you're cops? So I come out.

If you know what, shut the fuck up. You're not going to jail, you're being robbed. This Jewish kid, you know what he said? Oh, God, thank you. My mother father would have disowned me. Oh, my God, I can't go to jail. Please take what you want. Don't hurt me.

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That's how I always felt. Jack had a connection with a guy named Whitey Bulger. I don't know if you know him. Whitey? Yeah. Whitey from Massachusetts. Jackson. Yeah.

Yeah. That they all won't click. So Jack would say, listen, we're not going to sell this stuff in the neighborhood. You know, we're in the street. Hey, someone just, that's mine. Right. Same thing with jewelry heist. We bring it up to Whitey.

So Jack knew him. Like everybody said, did you mean? I met him, but I didn't do business. Talk to him. It's like your hook. But I stood there until he says, I'll give you X amount of dollars. Wow. And then I'll walk away and let Jack talk to him.

And those guys were big-time drug dealers, his crew. Yeah, we bought it up there. Nobody knew. Jump in a car, go up there. Nice. Today's episode is brought to you by Mood, my favorite online dispensary, the one that I have been using for years and years to source my federally legal THC products. It's an online destination for federally compliant, hemp-derived cannabis grown on small, pesticide-free, family-run farms right here in the U.S. They believe cannabis should be accessible, affordable, convenient, transparent, while supporting American farmers.

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What about the jewelry? This is fascinating to me. When we robbed jewelry guys, I don't go into jewelry store and rob them. I take them coming home, coming from the Diamond District on his way to his jewelry store, because I know he upped up.

We upped. So you're talking about like Jews. And we had these two Jewish guys that would tip us off. The beards. Those kind of Jews. And I'll tell you another. Remind me when we get on that one.

I'll tell you another story we did. And we would take, he would tell us who and we take them. So you don't take them in the city in the Diamond District. You take him where it's right, bump his car, whatever. One we took in his driveway, getting out of his driveway. So you're stalking them from the dime.

We're getting tipped. He just left with the diamonds. 47th Street all the way to back to Brooklyn. So wherever he lived. One guy was in Mill Basin. Which is where? Brooklyn. Brooklyn, okay.

Then it was another one, Hussita Jew. When he brought that up, remind me. You had to be it. Because don't make, don't get a twisted. Those guys are fucking. You're talking crooks too. Oh, I know. I'll tell you another story about that.

But remind me. And Jack will grab this guy. We get him in a cab. Well, he called the cab, and we got him in a cab. When he got the cab, Jack got in there with him. And we had a guy driving the cab, and we're driving. Jack told him, he's got a briefcase in his hand. He wouldn't let go with his damn briefcase.

I'll die before I let be robbed. Jack said, you kidding? Jack shot him by the leg. That's just a warning now. I want to give it with the suitcase. Jack grabbed them by his hair. His beard, when you said beard, when he grabbed the hurt crunch,

lifted it up the sack of diamonds. Oh, we got a couple hundred thousand now. Right up the white. He bought it. Hey, also a trope in the Sopranos. If you saw the first, that was a storyline in the first season of Sopranos, they're shaking down these Hasidic Jews for a hotel that they own

because they're in for a bunch of money and they try to make this guy, you know, give it up and he's like, I'd rather die. Oh, they are legitimate gangsters, but we're not violence. They come to us for violence. I'll tell you another story, one of them, the guy Gus before I burned his florist down. New York Avenue is all Hasidics.

Yeah. That's like, um, what, neighborhood is that as at Crown Heights? That's like New York Avenue. By my mom, but he's hospital, 48th Street, all over there, all her seatings. So I have to go in for a stress test. I have no insurance.

You know, we don't have insurance. I had the Methodist Hospital. Rudy had it locked down. Everything I did, my cousin was the head administrator. My bell's up. So now I got to go to St. Francis in Roslyn, hot center of the east. I got no insurance.

So Pluto said my brother Gusy's got a friend So I meet him there He's got the seat of Judey Makes me fill the paper out Blue Coast Sushi Yield I pay him And he said what about for my time I said what do you want

He's five hundred more Okay You ever told him A week later Got my card Member since two years Wow I mean that's how crooked they are

Sophisticated criminals They're white-collar gangsters Right which is, and they're so disgusting and dirty looking. They smell. Yeah, big time. Big time. Imagine getting on a flight with a bunch of those guys.

No. I wouldn't know it. I'll make a move. I'll make a move. I don't, I got OCD. He won't move. Yeah, yeah. But you guys would do business with anybody.

Did you do business with blacks? Yeah. What kind of business? They called him Matt the head nigger. I'm not saying a derogatory way. But that's his nickname, Matt the headnigger. The coalition? like they go to job sites and try to get on, you know, we want equal rights.

Uh-huh. He was around Rudy. So we did a lot of business. Rudy would set him there, the upset of the thing to get us involved. Like, let's say you've got a construction company. We said Matt over there, we want work. Listen, we can back these guys off. Good guy, bad guy.

Don't worry. We're going to give any of these guys. They're not going to bother you no more. But you're going to pay five foot a week. Okay. No way. So you would use them to get in with an extortion of... And the same thing when they had a problem,

they had a club right down the street from us, black guys. It was like a hang out. And I go out and I hang out with them. You know, I had no problem with them. I got along with all the black... Downtown Brooklyn years ago was bad day. But now it's all yuppies.

Right. But you better get along with black people if you're going to be hanging around downtown. Sometimes I get along with some of them better than white. Yeah. I really mean it. So you... So what about...

another, speaking of black guys and the Sopranos, one of the storylines was the black guys would be jacking cars, like carjacking people for nice cars, and then they would sell it to Tony Sopranos crew, and then they would send it off to Europe to be resold. Yeah, I wasn't involved in that. I wasn't involved in that. Okay.

But I was involved in chopping the cars, like, for example, a collision shop, legitimate in the front. Mm-hmm. Like, let's say you wreck your car, 2008 Lexus, blah, blah, blah, back then, you know. And we just go out, steal the same car, same car. I had a kid named Tyson.

And he had a little kid about this big with him. You got to see them two together. But they could rob a car like this. So we didn't buy parts. I'm not going to pay for the parts. I go steal for a couple hundred dollars. Send a guy out robbing the same kind of car. And then you sell the parts.

You can do whatever you want. I try to tell, listen, it's a black leg, whatever it is, you know. And we get the same car. We take the damaged parts off, get the insurance check. But the other parts are that we stole. Right. So you get insurance. So we're not buying no moths.

You have no inventory. You have no overhead. No overhead. Except the collision guys putting it on, the workers. Wow. I'll tell you a quick story. I lived on downtown Brooklyn on Fifth Street. And really a nice area.

I had a brownstone. So I go to the auction with this guy, Denny, and I bought his red Jeep. Oh, what a Jeep? Okay. Base model, you know, the rag top. So I said to Kevin, Kevin, I want to deck this out. He was out charged a close shop. All right, leave it at my shop.

Brings it back a week later. Mag wheels, hard top, wench, the hooks. It was gorgeous. Three days later, I'm looking out my. window, I live on a third floor. I'm the brownstone. I see some guy walking around my Jeep. My cousin Joey said to me, hey, there's some guy,

I go down, I say, what's your problem, buddy? That's my Jeep. He says, I live a couple blocks away. They just robbed my Jeep. It looks just like it. What are you trying to say, buddy? I got receipts. I bought this thing.

What are you talking about? I'm not accusing, you know, but the hooks, everything's the same. All right, buddy, do yourself a favor. Okay? Do yourself a favor, walk away. He got an idea where what kind of guy is going? So I called Kevin him.

Now, I just moved to this Brownstone. Last time Kevin seen me, I was living on Carroll Street. Oh, no, Carol Street, was it? Yeah, Carroll Street. So he didn't know. They took the car from right around the corner for me. So you bought a stolen car from these guys. Well, they stole that car, put all the nice parts.

Like I had the zip-up windows. I had new windows, roll-up windows. So they took everything and put it on mine. God, it was just... Well, I buy the parts. You send them out for $4,500. You're going to get the same car. Now you take all the parts off.

You sell the rest of the parts. You save some. We had anti-crime unit come to our collision shop one day because we were on the investigation. They come through their doors. On the roof, we had everything. The parts, it's called it on secured area. Anybody could have put that there.

It's not locked up. locked inside your building, they could still lock you up. Mangaloonersers. Mikey Sapp and Kevin made a canvas, black canvas straight across. Zip-tied it. So you look, if you're in a helicopter, you see a black roof, but the parts are all under it. Wow.

They went through the whole place. They find out the... Incredible. Did you ever catch, like, state indictments, like New York State, Rico? No. No, I've been arrested a bunch of times. It sounds like nothing really stuck until the end. Yeah, I got probation.

Another time I had a beat for the guy because I shot this kid, Ronald Holmes. We'll get back to that. And this was his friend. I was at a light. And I had a friend in the car with me. And he's being a wise ass next to me. So I said, okay, pulled up my pistol. Fire shots at him.

Takes off. All of a sudden here, police drop your weapon. I took off. I was in my Jeep. I was on 15th Street, this was. It was one way up. I get to 8th Avenue, the prospect park west.

Traffic's going this way. I'm going this way. They're on my tail. I'm trying to find this place to ditch this gun. Right on my ass. I turned down Gauthfield Place. As soon as I turned down 4th Avenue, I said the kid chucked the gun.

Soon I turned 4th Avenue, the whole thing was shut off. It had me. So it got me. dragged me out of the car. The government was in the car. I could give a. I had a DEA badge, everything in there. I had a phony driver's license under a different name.

Right. One of the cops said, look, Sudge, he's on the job. So they locked me up. They charged me with all that. The other kid had a clean record. So Jimmy the Pitchell, the attorney, said, listen, I can work a deal with the prosecutor. Somebody's got to take the gun pitch.

You know, the guy ain't telling him. He was a street guy. So somebody's got to take the gun charge So the kid, I said, look, you take the gun charge Because another one of me, I'm in trouble I carry the gun everywhere I want Another of me I'm in trouble Is you take the gun charge

I'll give you, I think it was $10,000 I forgot the amount And he said, you got a plea to either Personate officer, a criminal possession of forged instrument Either way, it's a felony That's okay, I got probation He got probation, we walked out of there

God, you just didn't do it But Jimmy came back to the podium He said to me and my father, He says, can you raise $25,000 more? I can get the boat, walk out of here with no jail time. I told Jimmy no doubt about it. Be in the bitch office in the morning. He said, let me go back up there.

Okay, call me up there. Prosecutor's right there. Staying right there. Your Honor, he pleaded to the gunshot. I walked out of that courtroom paper, just on probation. So who's taking that money? The judge or the prosecutor? I never knew.

I never asked them. Because your lawyer was the one responsible for that. If you could raise 25,000 more, let me spread it around. No jail time. You got it. So that kind of corruption was still going on even in the early 90s. Oh, yeah, big time. Then 80s and 90s was a lot different than it is today.

Especially those judges in the boroughs. Yeah, you didn't have all these cameras on Ivy Corner, blink cameras, this camera. No, of course, but I'm talking about just being able to pay a judge or, yeah, to buy your way out. Anthony Vugiano, I heard him tell her the story about that. What are the judge of Brandon or whatever his name was? I heard that story, too. He was one dirty one. Yeah.

Well, I mean, look at Goddy beat his state trial in Queens because they flipped the jurors, you know? I'll tell you the story. Sammy was one of them that got to one of the juries. Another time, his son-in-law, Carmine Agnello, got the second jury, or right-s-versed. Right. You know, so they paid the juries. Yeah, you could sit there, cocky attitude. You know what's going to happen.

Right. The worst case than ever, you get a hung jury. They're going on. They fixed it. Yeah. Yeah. So when the Teflon, yeah, he was. And he was a thug.

You can't take nothing from the guy. No. You know? Idiot, though, at the end. Man, he fucked himself. Yeah. You know what I told Sammy when I'm at seeing him? Simmy, let me ask you a question.

Why didn't he kill him? If he was bringing this heat to you and this and that, oh, he's a boss. where you said you put the team together to kill Paul Castellano or boss what couldn't you take out John? Oh, Bob, come on now. Did you have any dealings with that crew,

with Sammy or with John directly? John directly, no. Sammy, no, really. Sammy was originally with the Colombo's. I don't know if he says it. Yeah. No direct business. Ran into them, but no direct business.

You know, like, no. Why did you never get straightened out? Why did you never become a maid guy? After Rudy knew I was capable of doing something, at that point he said, listen to me, I'm going to start putting the word out. I'm going to do something for you. Especially when the Godis plotted to kill me and I lived through it. And I didn't tell.

That was in 91. I flipped it, 01. Well, December 2000, December 23rd. So, I mean, then people say, oh, he flipped what he got, you know, they tried to kill him. No. 10 years later. Right. So, and that was over the fireworks.

You sell fireworks in their area. So, yeah, why didn't they, the books never opened up or? Well, at one point, Rudy provosby, and there was a captain called Alan Longo in the Genevese family. That's who my uncle Ralphie was around. And he called him in the club when they, called him to his size. Hey, Rudy told me they're going to do something for your nephew. I told him good, good kid.

Took a dozen pictures. So my Uncle Ralphie goes home, calls me home, he says, come here, I want to talk to. Stop at the house, Katter Street. He lives right by me. Matter of fact, that was my father's sister, married Ralphie. That's the guy that he told him to. And he said, yeah, we talked about it.

Yeah. He said, well, they're going to do something for you. So they're putting my word around. Now, somebody told me now, after I flipped the other day, somebody got a hold of me from the Decavacante family and said, I listened to you. podcast, the Gatti's were opposing you to be made, Jr.

Because of the beef they had with you. Because he probably knew when I got the power, I won't take no more shit. For sure. You know, his only piece of work he did is they held the guy at a bar and he stabbed him. Who are you talking about?

John Gotti Jr. Okay. Yeah, he was... Silver, they killed him in the bar. Hmm. I mean, you know. Right. So by 91, John Gotti, senior is about to be, I think he's gone already. By 91, 92, he was convicted.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's really John Gotti Jr. So he was feeling his old. So that's when I, yeah, no, 90, he must have went away because January 4th, 1991 is the night they tried to kill me. And. Tell us about that. You haven't told us about the day they actually tried to kill me.

So what happened was, Rudy told me lay low. You got a problem. Let me get a squash. Joey Messina, boss of a banana family. He knew me. you know, he knew of me from the neighbor to him. I mean, I helped him with a problem he had with his daughter. I don't want to go through it.

And also, I, while Bill went back for me, people that don't know, while Bill was probably the best guy out there. Who was going to see? He was acting boss in the Colombo family when the war was over, what was going on, and they killed Billy. Because Billy wasn't taking the state of now. for nobody. He was a man. He was a thug. So Billy's sending word, you know, that then, you know, whatever it's where this kid don't deserve to die, you know. And Rudy went down there to the

meeting after they tried to kill me. Hang on, though. Tell us about the day they tried to kill you. Well, what happened was I get a phone call from somebody that would mean like $4,000. Hey, I'm at the Fifth Amendment Bar, 50th, 75th Street. You want to meet me? I got your money. And Rudy said stay in the house. but until I get it straighted out, I figure a couple blocks away. As soon as I turn back up Carroll Street, I see a cop car light go on undercover. I had two pistols.

I don't have a problem. I draw him under the seat. So the guy gets out, coming towards my car, I don't know. And then all of a sudden I see two three other guys just pile out of the car. So I just pushed them away and he put the gun to me. I don't you. And I pushed them away.

They were trying to get me in the car. You know what happened. They were pulling one of your tricks. Pretended to be cops. Let's get you the car. It's all over. They'll chop me up. And then you just peeled out?

So no. They just beat me to a pope, stabbed me up and everything. They left me in a coma. Whoa. They almost got you. They kept stabbing me. Die, motherfucker.

Die. My head was wide open. I had a plate put in. I went in a coma. Wow. So after that, we settled it. How did you guys,

how did you guys wash it? How did Rudy squash it between the rest? I said the Rudy, what do you see going there? He says, what do you want out of this? You want money? Fucking, you can't buy my life. Rudy, he says, look at me. I said, I want to kill this kid, Jr.

I want to kill him. You better hide your whole family. His father will send word. I said, Rudy, let me go to the meeting. Let me see what I give for you. Come back, take three for a walk, Kim and Joe Spash. and he says, okay, junior's off limits.

Don't get me wrong. You wait five, six years. I don't know about it. He gets clipped. Nobody knows about it. He's not too well liked. So you know what he told me. Because he's a captain.

He's not supposed to tell me a clip of a wise guy. But Rudy had a lot of love for me. And he said the guys that went to scene that night, you can't kill him either. They were doing their job. You know, it wasn't personal with that. It was an order, yeah. Yeah.

He's bought the kid, Chris Haby, that sets you up, do what you want to him. And I remind you, he lived in a back, right, backed up house to my father's house. That's how I knew him. Wow. Used to bet with me and everything. So. And he's the guy that called you and said, hey, I got your four grand. No, no.

He used to bet with me, and he got jammed up. So one day, he calls me to the house. She's, do me a favor of him. I ain't got the money to pay you. And I'm not going to duck you, Jimmy. I like you. He said, I got three cars. He had his old link in.

It was like maybe we were three, four thousand. He said, I give you this, take three off. I said, okay. You know, anything you get is close to get at all. So he goes to the house. He tells his wife that I put a gun to him and threaten him. And I have no reason to lie, right? I take the car.

I come back, get the car. I pull it around, my father's driveway, I said back later. His wife was close with John Jr.'s wife, Kim Albanese. for the neighbor. So she called Kim Albanese. That kid, Jimmy Easy, just put a gun to my husband's head,

took my car, but not true. When they found out that wasn't true, but that's really what really started up more. And that's when he sent a hit team after me. Okay, so what did you get out of it, though? To kill Habe. So who is that guy?

Who's Habe? What did he do? Habe was a gambler that was around junior. But when he got jammed up, I took his car. Okay. So the wife called John Gotti Jr.'s wife. Why is that retribution for what they did to you?

Like why they almost killed you? Why is clipping some nobody? Because he made up the story in law and it says I put a gun to him. And I didn't. I see. I see. Okay. You understand?

Got it. He really lit the last, he drew the last match. I got you. Okay. So kill him. But don't kill him in Howard Beach. So I put a hit team together. he goes to the Fulton vegetable market in the morning in Canarsie

and he supplies all the restaurants. So he leaves about four or five at the morning. I'm sitting in his van waiting for him. One morning, don't show. Okay. Come back the next day. In the van, Dayton Shop sitting there, I'm going to blow his brains out.

He says to the seat. All of a sudden, third day, we're pulling up. We've got the chase car around the corner. I'm pulling up. He lives right there to the right. We're pulling up. He comes down the stairs. Getting in his white lincoln.

He had a white lincoln, too. As soon as he pulled the kid, Mikey Sop. I pulled alongside him. God, hurry up. He's shutting his door. As you're dead, boom, I had a 30-80 tree. It was an automatic that Mikey Sop gave me. Thing jammed.

Mikey Sop jumped out, fired shots, missed him. The police scanner, not even a middle lady, called the cops. There's a street kid that called the cops. On 155th and Cohancy, shots fired, shots fired. A man said he was, somebody tried to skewed him. So we get down, Lyndon Boload, we chucked everything, got rid of everything, everything, everything. Get an active neighbor next day, Rudy calls me up. What did I tell you?

Don't kill him in Howard Beach. And where did you try to kill him? Howard Beach. Rudy, how else can I get this kid? I'm hot. You know, here it is. I was fuming. I wanted this kid.

And he took off then. Him and the brother. They split down. So at that point, Junior said, where to do, Rudy, now it's over with.

Yeah. He could continue doing his business. Right. Why do you think the DeKalcanties, because they are actually a New York family

technically, why are they not counted as one of the five families? Because they were never on a panel. I heard when Sam was around, he was wrecking I was really big. They talked about a six family,

but they never was. Who's Sam? The Cavicante. Okay, the guy. And what? And that was Vinnie's father-in-law, our uncle-in-law, you know, he married it to the family.

Okay. So they are kind of new, compared to the other families that go back to, like, the 1910s, the Decavalante came way after. They called him the farmers. You know, when I was 19,

I joined up Rudy. I didn't realize, you know what, they were weakest crew around. I didn't know. I just knew how to be able to, wise guy. And, you know, I didn't know as much like, well, they're not as strong as the

Genevice, the powerhouse crew. Really? Even more than the Gambinos. Oh, yeah. Yeah. John was just fine. Boy, the chin was quiet. Right.

And they say the Genevese had the most gambling, the most quiet money. Powerful money crew. Yeah. Strong crew. They had the downtown rackets with the unions and stuff like that. Yeah. So the DeKalcanis were the smallest by number. Yeah, the banana was kind of small.

They were bigger than us. Okay. So, but you still didn't get your, didn't get your money. You had to wait for the books open, number one. Right. And then I kept going away. One time I went away, and then Rudy died. I went away January 23rd.

Rudy died in March. Right. At that point, I know, what am I going home? I put 20 years into this family. I mean, I did work everything. Mm-hmm. I made a lot of money for them. Yeah.

I was an earner. Nobody out there could ever say, be easier. It wasn't earn up. How much do you think you were kicking up to them on a good month? Well, like, if I had 300,000 his money in the street, so that's three grand a week. And then the joke of poker machines, at that certain point, he said, don't worry about it. He took a liking to me.

I was close with his son, Michael and Mark and the whole family. So, you know, at that point, the Sherlock business was all. And if you had a score, you give some money. Yes, like when I did the camp quarter scores, I think it gave me really 50. So you were good to them. You were chipping. Listen, oh, he's earning. There's so many more scores I made.

I mean, there was something you bought to me. I was less of a skirt chaser. I was the money chaser. These other guys worried about getting a piece of ass. I was worried about, hey, I'm putting my life on the line. It's about money, not about glorifying,

running around with broads. I did go out Friday night with Rudy at all. But, you know, that was not me. If I had my chance to go with you and make money, or go out with the hottest broadening neighborhood. I'm taking the money.

And were you good at saving? A lot of wise guys usually blew everything they made. When the feds arrested me, they insisted I had millions of dollars. My house, I had Japanese oriental plants. I mean, they ripped up my lawns, my house. They tore it apart. Where was your house?

Howard Beach. Well, what happened is my father died, a car wrecked. A month before, I got picked up in January. died of December. So I inherited the house, me and my sister. So I came home for four dicks. I was living there.

Because my beef was settled. Right. You know, the kid didn't tell. He didn't retell. You know, he didn't do nothing. Well, you know, he tried to kill the kid. Okay, so now let's move up to 97 when this whole indictment comes down for the, the Fed set you guys up with stolen merchandise.

Yeah. Yes. It's like a reverse heist or whatever. It is entrapment. But they did get me for bookmaking, loan shocking. So they had you. Yeah. So how'd you only come home and how'd you three years?

I got, no, I got 48 months. But you get good time in a halfway house. And I took the alcohol and drug program. You get time off for that too. So it just seems crazy. Like how did you only get four years off of a whole, this whole? I got the most at everybody. Nikki and Lenny got less stuff.

Lenny got bail, a captain in the Gambino family. Everybody went home and sat on bail and set me and Nikki. Because Nikki caught a case with Anthony Ruggiano in Florida. Okay. So he already had an open case, so he wasn't getting bail. So you come home in 99, 2000, and then you get re-indicted. There's another case, right? I went to see the kid Jimmy Massiano.

Now, remind you, when we were doing this thing with the hijacking stuff, selling the swag and stuff, he was doing it all for me. Going to the warehouse, picking it up, selling it. He was like my runaround guy. He never got charged. I had in my mind, could it be bad, maybe not, maybe it. So when I come home, I pull up his block. Now, remind you, I had a police scanner because we did the medical centers,

you know, the accident. You bring them to a, you know, medical center. Hold on, can you talk about that? Because it sounds fun. Yeah. What was that lick? Well, when I came home, I told you I was avoiding Vinny. When I came home, when Ralphie said, stay away for me.

Right. I had a doctor named Pierce Newman. He had a medical center on Crosby Boulevard, Boulevard Medical. And he was around Sunny Juliano, a Gambino captain, and Frankie, They want to help me touch the florist. So they sent me to me, hey, you need anything? Because I just came home. Frankie says, go up there.

Any medical work, they won't charge this. I got close to the guy named Mark Anton. He was the head administrator. He said, Jimmy, you got the Methodist Hospital. My mom, Methodist Hospital, yeah. My mom and his was the other one. You got it all locked down. You could get people out of there in car accidents.

I'll give you 1,500 each one. I said, I got the tow trucks, accidents. We show up the scenes. I thought we could make millions. So I said, give me a car. So I had to know what somebody needed, a lawsuit. I sent him to his medical center. Send him, send him.

Next thing you know, I'm sending four or five people a month. Okay, can you explain that? What they do is this. When you get into an accident, you know how they work, soft tissue action, their physical therapy three times a week. Right. Adjustments. You come in, you get adjusted, you got a physical debt.

We're billing them up the Yingang. Even they didn't show up, we were billed them. Okay. So you're just overbilling? Well, not overbill. Let's say they allow us three times a week, physical therapy. You don't show up that one day out of three days. We charge them.

Okay. So how are you, what's your value to the hospital? At that point, they said, we're going to call you an administrator. I opened one on 6th Avenue and 9th Street, right by the methodist's hospital. We're bringing people right down into there. Oh, so you got the guys supplying the hospitals with the people that got in cars? I had an x-ray technician setting them to me. I, you know, then I had all the tow trucks.

I'll give you $1,500 each, bring them to me. They'll pull it up, bring the two people in that time trip. Before you know, we were jammed. We were jammed. So that's great money. Then there, but another one on Roosevelt Boulevard, but it's a Spanish up there, so we put these Spanish people,

Dominican people up there running it. We were doing big numbers. I said, I don't want the mob. I don't want the mob no more, but then I got pinched. Listen to me, stupid money. How much you think you made off that? Well, he said the first quarter, my end was $3.50.

In a quarter? In a quarter, three months. We get paid bill and, you know. $350K. We can't collect the money, only a doctor. Right. So he would give me my money. He has had them all over the place.

Crooked is the days long. And this is a hospital administrator. No, I'm medical center. It was like a medical center. Who's inside? The hospital? Yeah, who's... The head administrator with my cousin.

There. Rudy made her boss. We had the hospital and locked down. Wow. Matter of fact, the two security, the head of security, Joe and Tommy, those are the ones that killed Joe Pitt, the guy in the wheelchair. He was a dangerous guy around Rudy. That hospital scheme, that's fascinating.

And that doesn't get talked about when you talk about mob schemes that much, but that's big. Russians were big with that at the time. Russians, yeah. And, you know, in L.A., it's the Armenians do that. That's right. Oh, yeah, I learned all about that. Wow.

I mean, we had one day a week, a neurosurgeon come in, you know, to see, we lined them up. Yeah. You know, one day a week, you know, we had, we had the Dr. Lyons, a chiropractor, we call him Dr. Lyon. He was there five days a week. And these are all people that are getting paid. They're all in on.

Legitimate people get paid. They probably have an idea what's going on. Right. But they, when they wrote out the reports, Lombard, this, this, this, that. I wrote a report. Now I got a lawyer that's a dear friend of mine. He put an office in there.

We're signing people up, two three people a day. He's giving me $1,500 each person I sign up. Right. And are the people getting signed up actually hurt, or are they also getting paid? Most of them ain't. No, 90% ain't. Was that the best scheme you ever came up with?

It would have been if I didn't get picked up, I would have never did nothing else again. If any goes away, I ride off into the sunset, doing this. Millions of dollars. Oh, God, you have no idea what I would have made. No idea. Because I was learning more and more about it. Like we had a guy named another Katz.

He had a common name, and he had an MRI place down on Court Street. We sent him over there $800. He'd give us a kickback. All this kickback cash. I'm going home at the end of the week. Just kickback cash. And $15,000 a year, $6,000 a week. And then I'm waiting for the big paycheck to come in every quarter.

Stupid money. Yeah, I mean, people talk about the fraud, you know, people want to accuse the Somalis in Minnesota of committing all this fraud. I'm like, motherfucker, this shit has been going on for decades. Then we had people, I had these Spanish kids around the neighborhood, Ford of them getting a car, go in Manhattan, get in front of a taxi or bus,

walk your break, get rear-ended, all four of them coming to my medical center. Now, Mark and Pierce are give me $6,000 for them right off the bat. cash. Now the lawyer's giving me $15 a $1.00. I made $12 grand on these. And they all settled. They all got good money. 30, 40 grand each. And I would

tell them, though, forget me, would you get your check? Should they come give me something? Do you hear that America? If you're tired, if you want to why your insurance is so high, blame the fucking blame the Daegos. Blame the guineas for Brooklyn, man. So that was about, that was

like your retirement. That's what I was looking at. You were going to be balling out of control. How old were you then? That's when I came home. 2000. It was 2000. I was 1636.

Okay. But then tell us what happened. There was another case waiting for you. Well, then that's when they wrapped up all the decavacanthes when the guy robbed the World Trade Center. Okay. Talk about this real quick. Please, I know this story. No.

This is the wildest, most brazen mafia heist. Ralphie Goreino knew a guy named South with 20. 3rd Street, worked in the World Train Center. And he kept telling him Ralphie, there's times there's a load of million dollars, $3,000.000. So Ralphie would always tell me, he was schemer.

He just came home, everything. I say, Ralphie, yeah, how are you getting out of that place? There's more security in there. Oh, no, I'm getting it. I'm in Fort Dix. I heard World Trade Center was Rob, Bank, blah, blah, blah. I was like, wow, he got it. They took the elevator, because I read this in a book,

actually, when I was locked up. You don't have to tell you. I'll tell you the story. Ralphie bought two black guys that work for money. Because Ralphie bought homes, fixed them up, downtown Brooklyn. All the yuppies are moving in. Right. He'd make tons of money with a Ralphie.

Ralphie's a schema earner. And also a guy in the Sopranos named Ralphie, Ralph Sifaretto, probably based off of this guy. Getting off the elevator, you know, as the door's opening, he pulled his mask off because he didn't want to walk out. There's cops right there. So, takes his mask off. No, hold on. Tell us what they, walk us through.

Well, they went up there, and it was like Sal was the tipster. Told them where it was. They went up there, and they robbed it. And it was cash. Cash, and it was some foreign currency, I heard. And they bought it to Ralphie. One of the black guys that took his mask off, they got a picture of him. They went to him, he flipped. When he flipped, the other black guy left the country.

The other guy in the car, I don't know who he was. So, Ralphie was walking around thinking he got away with this. They knocked on his door, George Hanna. He's the head of organized crime. He used to be an extra street guy. I grew up in Brooklyn. Not a gangster, but you talk to me. You think you're talking to a wise guy.

Yeah. So he went through, he said, Ralphie, Ralphie, Ralph, you want to go back. You just did 12 years. You think about it. I'll be give you 24 hours to call me. You want to play ball, you will go to jail. Ralphie called him. He played ball.

He wired up on Vinny. Ocean, the boss. He wired up, whatever. Joe Smash, he got on tape. Borrow money off him, won't shocker money. And then when Rudy died, Vinny took over Rudy's loan shocker business. So now he's partners with Joe Smash. So now they're getting out on wire.

Everything's on wire. Yeah. But he was running out of wire too at a certain point I heard. heard. Probably. Because the bosses are rat at this point. So that's what Ralphie's seeing me. He said, stay away from me. Oh, okay. You want to hurt me. Matter of fact, when I shot his godson, he didn't get mad of me. Get Ronald Holmes. What happened with that? I was in our house, having a football party, and I owned a half of, uh, after hours, but we were holding the Super Bowl party there.

So I had my joker poker machines in there. And Ronald was a couple of, Coke dealer. I said, Ronald, you sell your junk. I don't want no part of it. I take the gambling machine money. You can even have the bar money. He's going to rob me anyway, probably. I'm not there. He's a deal. So he's got the box up on the wall, you know, play football boxes, super bowl, $100 each. About half hour before, hour before he calls me, I need somebody to buy some boxes. No, day before it was. And I got Kevin, Mike. All right. of them to buy. They're all at my house. I'm a big party. I had old food care. Call Ronald. He said, I can't talk. I'm slammed. Because I asked him for the box numbers.

What these guys got. They paid $100. It made me look stupid. I call back again, Christine Persico answers. Call my Persico's niece. I know over everyone. Another tramp. And it's the truth. Yeah, a lot of those girls. A lot of those Catholic Italian girls. She was a cocoa. So I said, put Ronald on the phone. Hold on, Ronald, Jimmy Watcher. Hang up on him. I told him I was busy. Oh, yeah?

Batman. Kevin, get the car. Got the gun, walked in there. I said, who the fuck? There's about 70 people in there. Who the fuck are you to talk to me like this? He's, what, what, what? Boom.

He went to run, hit towards his mother and sister. His sister, I was dating, too. Boom, I hit him again. And I said, Jimmy Ezy did say, but I know who did it. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca. They were like, ah, they all knew me. My neighbor, right, my neighbor. And I told them, I said the kid's Sweeney that was there, I just take them to the hospital. I just remember, you're walking on in fifth am you, somebody drove by in the car and shot you.

Yes, please. So, his father, Denny Holmes, that night was looking for me, I heard. Went to my aunt's house looking for me. And Ralphie's driving. I'm like, my cousin Linda calls me up. She said, be careful of a blue link and Ralphie and Denny Holmes

are looking for you for shooting inside Ronald. Oh, yeah? I call Ronald right up. Denny right up. I say, you're looking for me? I'll meet you back where I shot him at the club. I got keys for my mind you.

I'm in there already, waiting for him. I got two guys inside waiting. What kind of guns do you have for, for like a big shootout. At that point, I had a 38 on me. You know, I don't like automatic since that jam. And I was sitting there. I just kept walking outside, waiting for them.

Anthony Bustles is in there. They're sitting there with guns, Kevin. They never showed up. Then next day, Rudy calls him to the club, Denny Holmes. Because Rudy pulls up to the club, he says, Jesse James, who'd you shoot now? That's where he's the last thing. I know, everyone's a long story.

Joseph Redo F old walk. I told him what happened. Did you have to shoot him? You know, I know the family well. Man, Italians were different back in the day. 70 people at a Super Bowl party, nobody saw nothing. Italians were different. So you had a relationship with Ralphie,

who's cooperating with everybody. He tries to... Well, this is way before he got caught. Of course, of course. But now it's 2000 and he's jammed up. So he told him about that. You know, when you debrief, you can't hold nothing back. Right.

So they asked about you. They wanted to know the government wanted to know about you. I'm sure he told him. Yeah, he shot Ronald. And then he knew about Salisbara probably. Everybody in the neighborhood and know the kid that for the insurance money. Okay. So that's the kid with AIDS.

Yeah. That's how you. And then the brother that didn't pay, he tried jerk us around. So Pluto says, I'm going to kill him. Now, here it is. I'm making money with Vinny because he's got an office turning into my office. him dead is like I got a pipeline three, four thousand a week

he's bringing me towards what he owes to be every week he's a sucker that's Pluto, that was his nickname let's give him time, let's give him time so all of a sudden 30 days up he was like I'm gonna go kill him in his house no he's got family in there

Pluto's nuts so I'm in the house and we're talking about what we're gonna do and then all of a sudden I get a call from having cats He was the guy that arranged the whole thing, the mastermind behind it. He said, look, Jimmy, I give you my word. That thing you're bothering many about, it's coming.

There was a little bit of investigation. That's what slowed it up. I gave you two weeks, Ivan. But remember, you opened your mouth, now you're responsible. He's yes, that's right, I am. I'll guarantee the money. I told Pluto, leave it alone. I'm going to get my money.

So, two weeks go by. still didn't get it. Not knowing they're fighting for double indemnity. Am I saying that right? Indemnity. Demity. Yeah. Because it's an accident, a bird or whatever.

He didn't die in natural causes. So they were fighting to try to get double. But they didn't tell me that because I would extra more money. How much did you get for that hit? Like they asked you for, I wasn't sure it was 50 or 100 because Vinny owed me like 30 or 40. So I think we just said, give me 100 and call it even for everything. Okay. Wow.

That's a lot of money. for just being part of a hit. Well, he already owed me 30 or 40 for bookbankers, so it was about 56. I gave Pluto 20, so. Okay, so with this indictment that comes down, how did they, does Ralphie tell them all that? And how do they have you loan shark in? Like, how do they have all this evidence against you?

Ralphie knew I was loan shark. Ralphie knew it. He bet what only me. So that was enough. His word to the feds was enough to get you put in there. When he got everybody on tape, Then Ralphie owned a cell phone store. You know those old Motorola flophones?

You get one of any. He gave one to everyone. Oh, my way about it. 30 days strode out, I'll give you a new one. The feds gave it to them. Of course. They're talking like they got a license. If you Google on YouTube, them talking on a wiretap.

Oh, you're the real-life sub-sumannia. Yeah, every time we watch it, we see something new, blah, blah, blah. Right, because by this time, the Sopranos has come out. This is 2000. By the way, do you know how... Do you know how the writer, David Chase, got all of these stories and anecdotes from the family? A lot of people say that and they ex.

And a matter of fact, he was exed on interviews. No, it's just a coincidence, he says. No, it can't be. No. And he's from New York. He's from Jersey, New York. I will bet everything I got. And I, you know, I can bet.

Yeah. Yeah. They wrote a book. A guy wrote, the book I read was about Ralph and the Jersey. They had all these anecdotes from the Jersey guys. So somebody from- Ralphie wrote the book? No, it was about Ralphie.

Some reporter did. And this was in like 99, 2000. So the show had already come out, though. They've been producing the show since like 1995. That's when they brought Fox. It was originally going to be on Fox. And then they turned it down because it was too violent. and then HBO was becoming a big thing.

That's what I heard too. So somebody from Jersey, I bet, back in the day where, because David Chase grew up around all of this, the creator, somebody was feeding him stories, you know, but I guess we'll never know. Example. You watch the Panosani sit outside of Satri Atchus, whatever it's. Satriallis. Cetriados.

We had sackles a block away. A pork store. Pork store. It's too much. It's too close, man. Everything, I mean... Come on. Somebody was talking...

And they're ahead of their time. Like, whoever was talking to David Chase or it could have been like a journalist, somebody that wrote articles, you know, that had a line to you guys that was feeding it to... Oh, copy of the transcripts. Right.

Witnesses. Talking to cops, right. They had the police records. Because when somebody goes to trial, like, mine were all sealed. I never testified on nobody. I never went to a grand jury, never testified.

because when I went in, Vinny gave them everything, I just had to confirm it. Right. Right. So you didn't... And not only that, I confirmed the murders I was involved in. So that's all they wanted, it seemed like.

And then I was set to testify on John Gotti Jr. I was set to testify on Chris Colombo. They didn't use me on both trials. Thank God. I didn't want to get out there face, nobody. That's a... To me, that's a low-life feeling. Like everybody said to me, like,

John Haley said to me one day, we were talking. We were going to do a show right before you got. I left up. He's Jimmy, I heard your podcast. You ain't a rat. Your boss is flipped on you. You didn't even take the yolk. Right.

They all told on you, why do you call you? I hear yourself tell yourself a rat. When you sit with the feds, you're a rat. Growing up, it was a no-no. You get pulled over. You had a cop of license. You don't even talk to him. Never mind, go sit with him in a profit session like John Gotti Jr. did.

Right. Not once. He did in 99. 2000. His sister's going after me for saying this. I got 302s. He did it 05 and 06. How long were you talking? Yeah. I believe it, of course. Oh, public news. They'll go on my YouTube page.

I plastered them right out there. Him talking about Danny Marino. Danny Marino is a real gangster. He's talking about Joe Watts, talking about his dad and Ralph did a murder with Joe Watts. Joe, I'm still alive. You're talking about murders to the FBI? But you're not a rat. Exactly.

So he said, but I never testified on nobody. But if I give you the evidence... They can use that to get an indictment. It's called Queen for Day. So what they'll tell you is we can't use that against you. But now they've seen your whole hand. So if you and Joe Blow, go rob a liquor store. We can't get you for what you said.

But we're going to turn the heat up on. Joe Blow like you never seen before. Now Joe Ball flips and says, he sent me, then it could indict you. So like my lawyer said, when I decided, okay, I will. I waited six months. Okay.

I want to take this chronologically. So you're killing it with this hospital scam. You're on parole from getting out of Fort Dix on federal parole. Ralphie is now giving the feds everything on the DeKalvolcances. He was like the lynchpin. He was like the, you know, the Sammy, the bull of the DeKalacanties. What, and you get roped into this.

What do they have you with? Loan sharking. Did they ever get you with this hospital scheme? Did they have that in the indictment? Well, they knew about it, but what I profit, I made sure when I walked out of that at that prophet session, I didn't leave one stone on turn because you're covered for everything. Do you think they would have had you if you took it to trial? You would have been felt guilty for the old murders?

Well, yeah, because you got to. boss. And like Seamus, the head agent said, this is the first time the Cavicante's ever had a main member flip, Anthony Capo. He's not only him. We had the boss. We had two captains flip. Vinny, the boss. Yeah. And then who were the two captains? Anthony Rotondo. Okay. Rept de D Chiera. Another guy associate, Frankie the Beast. And they all would have got up there and been like, yeah, I know Jimmy Easy was with us. Yeah. Well, Anthony Cabo can, Rotondo can and Vinny. Frankie would be sighted to meet him until we went in jail together. But the point is that was the evidence that could have,

that probably would have had you found guilty. Well, here's the thing. They brought in a guy named Fritzie Juvenelli, a general east captain. Fritzy got a hold of any of them and said, listen, I need to talk to you. We understand you got a cooperator and he had a tip. Like you said, they're still doing it.

He got a tip. It was a reporter that works for the government. the feds or whatever. She was a clerk or whatever she was. She told them that they got a leak. So Vinnie, I guess that's when he signed up. I don't know. And you're all in jail at this point.

I'm in Fort Dix. I come home. I told you. I've seen Ralphie. Maybe a week later, they picked everybody up. Two weeks later. Right. And then you got picked up after them.

Yeah. They brought me in on. I went to see the kid Jimmy Masseado. pulled up his block. He's seen me. He ran an house. I said, what's wrong with this kid? The next day, they locked me up.

They said, I went there with three other guys, got out of a car with guns. First of all, he's got like six kids. Every one of them called me Uncle Jimmy. I would have never hurt nobody, especially in front of their kids. So they dramatized it. So that was their way to get me off the streets

and say, okay, Jimmy, here's what you're facing. What were you facing? What were all the crimes? Well, they were showing me murders. One of them. Well, the other one was the guy Vinnie that didn't pay, he got killed too. He ended up getting killed. The guy that you tried to hit.

No, Vinny was the guy that came to me about killed his brother. Right. Okay. Okay. What happened was when he jerked around, jerked around, then after he got the body, Pluto killed him. So how many bodies total did they have in the indictment against you? Well, they had three, but I said Vinny, I don't think he, you could say I did it because we were in my house discussion,

what were going to do with Vinny. And honestly, I didn't want him dead because I was making money off him. He's a sucker. But the other hand, Pluto's like a brother to me, and he had in for him. So it was conspiracy for three, you directly. Well, I had other conspiracy to Kid Habie, conspiracy of get murdered, Chris Habie. So how many total?

There was Chris Habie, Vinny, Sal, Anthony Sarnie, Temptor murder on the kid I shot twice. Ronald Holmes attempted murder. I shot him in the after Owitz Club. Right. Okay. So it's like four and four moments. And then the one at a light.

But I told you, I pled that down to criminal possession of forged inch. And this is all from information that Ralph has and Vinny have given to the fed. Well, Ralph, he told him about shot his nephew. He told me he did book bank with me, loan shocking with me. Who told about the murders? Vinnie probably Well, and Anthony

Sarni got killed I'm just trying to ask because Because I'll tell you why Now go back to when Anthony Sarni got arrested So after he got killed We went back to court in Mammett County That's where they held the court For the Hombiell thing with the Jula guy

And that's the one Anthony flipped When we went into court Anthony was gone now dead So the prosecutor's name was Esposito Mammoth County and he says, Your Honor, we got an unfortunate incident today. Mr. Saarney will no longer be with us because he was shot in the back of the head. Well, the kid Billy that was there.

Hold on. There was a kid Bill, another kid Billy there with us. He says, his lawyer starts. Your Honor, we're asking Mr. William, whatever his last thing. Do we remove the case? Because he never even entered the home. Him and Sonny were in the car. and they said, well, if he's willing to testify

that Syracco and McInady went in there and he sat in the car, we'll let him off. But let me just tell you, he'll get a bullet in the back of the head just as quick as Sonny because Jimmy won't think twice to putting him on the back of his head. My father's with me in the courtroom. My father knew the kid after. We knew he says, he's a baby.

I said, this guy's nuts. So how could he say that? My lawyer got up, Jack did this or that. Yeah, yeah. So I go on, I get him. 18 months. Jack gets five years because he was on parole for murder. And the kid, Billy, got probation. I want to know, the reason I'm hounding you is because about, I'm talking about the big indictment. Fuck the 18 months. I'm talking about the four murders that could send you

away for life, right? And I just want to know, like, when you're sitting there, do you think to yourself, well, I kind of have action at beating it in court? You know, like, did you think you had action? Did you think that two or three wise guys on the stand saying, nope, Jimmy Easy was there. He pulled the trigger. He was part of it. Would that have been enough to put you away? It's a big gamble.

It is a big gamble. You're talking about life. When I got no family no more. The Cavalcathies are gone. They all flipped on my whole crew. So now what am I coming home to? I worked. It's like you having a job 20 years.

You made them a ton of money. You made your bone. You showed them what you came. Well, now I'm coming home. I got to go to find another family and start over. I know. And you never got made either. So they didn't even give you that privilege.

So at that point, you know, they went to my sister's house. She lived in Howard Beach. And then my brother, they said, listen, we want your brother to come with us. If not, we're going to try to get the debt penalty on him. So my sister came right up with my son. He was two at the time. And his mother. And she said, Jimmy, what are you waiting for?

My sister lived at Howard Beach. Sammy the Bull did it. So what? You have a new life. What do you want this for? Don't ever say it. I love my sister, that. Don't ever say that to me again.

I can't never do that. And I couldn't. And I went upstairs. I kissed my son goodbye. I told my ex. I should go on with your life. I'll be a while. Because I figure if they give me 20,

okay, I could come home at 58, 56. All right. You know, they won't give me nothing but trial. they had their foot on my throat at that point. Yeah, they weren't giving you any plea deals. So every time I went back to court, you know, in a hearing, they'll bring up my lawyer Stuart Grossman coming back. He says, Jimmy, they said, you're going to answer for Sonny's murder.

You're going to answer it. He named them right off the... And I said, Suey, I don't know what the hell they're talking about. Bill Gurran was the prosecutor. He said, Bill Goern said, you come with him, you'll be okay. And when he tells me that, he's not telling me to tell you that, but I'm telling you. Because they want you to get on the stand and say, you'll be all right, you know. I should still, I can't.

I can't. Please just don't ask me that again. I says, you know, it's not me. I was old school. I'm 62 years old. Back in the day, that was a big no-no. Of course. He said, but Vinny and all them flip, they're going to annihilate you.

You understand you're going to die in prison? The best you're going to do is die in prison. I'm back to my room. Joey Flowers, a Lucchese captain, comes over. He throws a newspaper on my thing. Vinnie Palermo was singing to the feds all along. Tell us who, remind us who Vinnie Palermo was? He was the boss of my family.

God. Now, the boss knows every hit that's done. Of course. Successor in your neighborhood. You want to know who did this. Made my neighborhood hot. At that point, I'm sitting there saying, Joe Joey Fowler said an old-time gangster.

These kids, doubt for nothing, you got problems. Yeah. I said, nah, don't worry about it. I'll handle it. And then a month later, my lawyer came to me, and he said to me, look, they want to sit with you and have a problem. I said, no, it's doing it. And it was like November. It was near Thanksgiving.

And then I go to trial. I go to court. I'm in a courtroom. Aramint again. They hit me on a new charge. And that's they kept doing them. Bring my card, New Char, New Char, like, weakened me. Yeah.

And at that point, I'm leaving the courtroom. And there's an agent named Mike Ferendino. Danga. He looked, he said, call me, don't be stupid. He's motioned to me. Leaving the courtroom. And I just looked away. I got, I get upstairs.

I call my son's mother. She says, there was an agent here, Michael Farandino. He said, don't be stupid. He's just, don't be stupid. Game's over. Yeah, and I laid there. I thought about it. And I says,

then while I'm in there, I'm seeing everybody's flipping. Peter Goebertoce, this one, that one's all flipping. Everybody's flipping. Yeah. I said, you know what? I called her up. I just tell the guy I found Dean all the send for me. And they brought me out like I'm going to court

and met with me. Not even 10 minutes into the conversation. Bill Garland stood up. He says, beautiful. I'm going to get you moved into special. housing, Jimmy. He said, I'm getting you somewhere comfortable about people like you. You got nothing to worry about. I don't want you to get hurt. All of a sudden, now he loved me. Before I was the low life, like when I got pitcher Dickie Lennie, he was the prosecutor.

He's your honor. He's a suspect of multiple homicide, blah, blah, blah, but judges, Judge Block. Until we see an indictment, don't bring it up in court again. So I see, I'm going home on bail. No. So. So who, who are you flipping a because the whole, the boss is flipping, so who could you possibly give them that's of any value at this point? All the guys under me. You know, other guys, they did business.

Like, I could talk about Joe Watts, sit down, how he, you know. Right. I mean, all those John Gotti Jr., that was one of their targets. But not knowing he sat with him in 98 and 99 to try to flip and they didn't take them. Did you ever do business with John Gotti Jr.? Just the time the argument over the firework business.

That's it. It's not like you knew about anything. thing that was super, that they didn't know about it. You know, if you read Jerry Capesey's article from 91 for five months, they tried to catch up with Jimmy Easy, John Gotti Jr., they were charged with conspired and murdered Jimmy Ezy, but he lived. So you didn't have to wear a wire on any? I mean, you couldn't.

It was already out that you were arrested. Well, no, in the jail, still didn't. So they went to my sister's house and they asked if they want to move. and her husband, no, legitimate people. So my other brother lived there, they says, you're not safe when we drop this news. That your brother's degree to cooperate against John Gotti Jr. They put him in a program.

Moved him out of New York. He's in Arizona. So the biggest threat to you at this point is John Gotti Jr. He's the one that back then could have. He's probably the last thing I, because Vinny gave them everything on to the Cavalcanties. Right. I guess the people that you told, the guys that worked for you, I guess, could have come back on you.

But how much time did they end up getting? You know, like what did your cooperation? Did Michael, you want to pass it away with a brain tumor. The kid Michael, that's the one that's the one that shot Sonny in the park. I don't know why he must have flipped. They didn't, we never even pick him up, nothing. When I would say, well, he went under the name Michael Ford, but his name was Michael Nelson. They look at each other.

All right. Well, who else was, like, they didn't want to talk about him. And also, there was another guy, Joe Smash. I was around him for 20 years, Rudy's partner, the wise guy in the Colombo family. To today, I don't want to believe it. When they asked me, who sanctioned it was Joe and Rudy? I said, both of them were there. Told me that to kill.

Right. So what happened to Joe Smash? Never got picked up. And when they, when I first agreed to flip, they asked me in the car where they were driving me back to the prison they said Jimmy let me ask you a question if we wanted to pick up Joe smash what's the quickest thing you can pick him up I said listen he's a little shocked 50 years a wise guy

Ralphie Guarino got him on tape Vinnie Palermo was pawners with him because he took all Rudy's half Anthony Capo knows him and Anthony Vitonda knows him very well they all flip yeah so when I'm they're talking. I said, well, Joe Sparser there. Don't worry about Joe. My stomach went. Because what does that mean?

He's bad. Yeah, he's bad. So they're trying to get you to tell on guys who were already telling. What they wanted was, in case any of these guys went to trial around the Cavicanties, they don't have just ready. They got anti-cap, anti-vitant. Now they got Jimmy Ease. Right. Just in case. But it never came to that. It's more ammunition. Thank God. They never had to testify nothing. So the sum total, how much time did you sign for for your cooperation? How much time did you have to do?

They don't put a time on you. Here's what they'll do to you. They'll make you play to zero to life. So now when you get on the stand, if you take the stand. So you killed these people and you did this, you robbed this, this. And how much time you got? I don't know yet. I played up the life.

I don't know. It makes you more credible. Right. But you didn't have to take the stand. what after this? I pled guilty to zero to life. Category 43. So how much time did you do?

I did five years. That is incredible. What a good deal that is. That's an amazing deal. But hold on. Rennie Pall Emerald did two and a half years. I got caught lying on the stand. Two million dollars he had stashed away at his daughter's house and the

sons. I gave them a million dollar package each. One of the guys in this, when he was on trial, said, if we're going to ask you your note, did you ever give your daughter and your son money to hold? He says, yes. They got called lying. They didn't use them after that trial.

But they let them go in two and a half years. Anthony Rotonda, a year and a half. Anthony Capel. Shaman said the other day, I think he did to be three or three or four years. I did five. Wasn't even indicted. Yeah, but it's like...

I know what you say. You got four bodies on you. You should be doing one body you get a death penalty in Texas. So it's like... The conspiracies they lived, you know, and, you know... I'm just saying I'm not judging. It's not a judgment on you guys at all. I'm just saying your ethnic group and your organized crime

got the sweetest deals from the federal government. That's the fact. Because if you weren't a drug conspiracy with the feds, guys who told got 15, 20 years. You know what I mean? so it's just, it's not fair, but it is what it is. When I got in the Witsack Unit, exactly what you said. So you're Italian?

You're going home soon. And one day I said, I was talking to the agents. They come see me every day for like months and bring me food. Now all of a sudden they love me. And they're sitting there. I said, let me ask you a question. Everybody in the unit saying, why do the Italians get the best deal? They said, well, a lot of these gangbangers don't know how to go back in society and adjust.

Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll.

So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. That's what they say. that's what they call me. I've sat in front of a bunch of gangbangers. Of course. They're like, I didn't have to do that much time. Like, I'm okay now, you know.

I think it's just, I think it's straight up racism, bro. But, and also we have an incredibly, you guys, to your credit, and that's probably why drugs were shunned in the Italian mafia because they come after drug dealing particularly viciously. So it's just fascinating. You know, I don't really have a judgment against it one way or the other. You take, for example, you just said, wow, you got away with that. Look at Sammy, 19 murders. Exactly.

And honestly, Joey Molino, everybody bashed the guy. You can't bash the guy. He does, they did the right thing. He stood up. I had nobody stand up to him. All my bosses flipped on me. What am I standing? I'm going to hold the boss.

I'm a stand-up guy the rest of my life. Yeah. No, I don't blame you at all. I would have taken that in a heartbeat. As soon as I saw Vinnie, my boss. It took me to convince myself six months, maybe. Yeah. Well, it was May of June 8th, I got picked up,

and I flipped December 23rd, whatever that's, five months. So, believe me. When I come back from that first prophet session, I felt like the biggest scumbag in a way. Yeah. And like, I hear these guys get on it, you know, and just why. Let me tell you, I'm not as big religious man,

but I never was big religious, but now I am. You know, I'm a Christian man now, and I did change my life a lot. Yeah. And, but when I hear guys on there saying, oh, after 91, when they tried to kill him, he flipped. No. I flipped the 90, almost a one. Right. A week before, a one.

So, you know, I had to set the record straight. I got tired of hearing that. Why do they even need a witsick now for wise guys? Because if there's a mandate for them not to be. violent just so they can stand out of the radar. And also, if everybody's told, why is anybody a threat to anybody else? You know what I mean? So why did you have to leave New York? One kid, maybe trying to make his name. Right. You know, but now what I understand, only by word about what I hear, that the mob's saying, no more violence. Feds are given 30 years

for a body now. Right. Like this. The state, you used to get 10, 15. Matter of fact, I had a state, charge. I didn't even know it. It's a proctor road article. Also, he had a 15 to 25 running wild in the state on another book. I forgot all about it when I'm... I mean, you know, when you're with the feds and your lawyer says, don't worry about nothing, I'll handle it with them, just be truthful, and you'll be all right. So I didn't need paperwork, nothing, because he handled everything. Right.

When you don't know which sec unit, the last thing you want to leave is your paperwork laying around. There's guys in there doing life. Right. Like the chicken man that blew up Patty Tester, Teddy, he was doing life. Those guys, not saying Teddy's personally or junior, those guys, old man Jonesy, they were doing life in there. They see your paperwork. And they read, Jimmy and John did this and it says,

they'll call up the feds. Hey, Jimmy just told me that it wasn't just John. You know, they'll try to get on the case. Right. So, Loy said, don't leave nothing in your locker. Right. And I didn't. Where were you?

What facility? I was first at MCC with SEC. Yeah. Then they moved me to Farriton. That was a nice. It was nice. It was like 30-something people in there. 20 were Italians.

Oh, I love it. You guys are playing pinnuckle. Every night. Pinockel shooting pool. It's like the streets. And I was the head cook. So we cooked whatever we wanted. I had to call a TV in my room.

Yeah. Medicine chess. I was like, you know it was a nice prison when you call your cell your room. listen, I had a regular door. I had a regular sink. I had a regular toilet bowl, not metal. Yeah, that's amazing. And you can't feel bad about that, in my opinion,

because, again, everybody did it. It was, you know, we interviewed these guys a couple of years ago for the show. They were these rednecks out of South Florida, a tiny little, I'm talking like 300-person town. And it was during the 80s. And these guys were importing, like record amounts of weed from Columbia. They would go out.

These big barges would meet them out in international waters, and they would throw, I'm talking like thousands of tons of pot. They were moving. And when they all got jammed up in a big indictment, their lawyer got together and said, everybody telling each other. And so we're all- They all got deals.

It's like, be smart about it. So it kind of seems like the mob had a similar, the Italian mob had a similar trajectory, you know, and shit, good for you guys. Honestly, I think Sammy paved the way for everybody. Uh-huh. I didn't mean it. I mean, the deal he got,

you look at me with a couple of bodies. I'm like, he got, you know, I'm going. You're a choir boy. Yeah, I'm an altar boy next to Sammy. For sure. You know, and not just Sammy, there was other guys, too. Like gas pipe, he got caught lying. Not only lying, he took credit for bodies he didn't do

not to get his friend in trouble. Wow. And I think he... He was fooling around with the COs, bringing smuggling food in, cell phones. He was sleeping with one of the COs. He ripped up his agreement. Right, right.

But you had to be a real fuck up. So now, are you still in WITSEC? What's your situation now? No, I signed out right away. I was in there about two years. I signed out. Well, it was really great meeting you. That was, I mean, that was just one hell of an era, and you lived it.

Now, did the Decapulcantes? Did they completely dissolve as a crime? family after Vinny flipped on everybody. Word was they were going to break them up. Like, there was like 10 solid what my wise guy is still out there. Okay, Gambino take two. Right.

You take two. You know, they were going to divide them up. When I heard that too, that's what helped me. What about they would have put me with the Gambinos. Right. You would have been dead. So that's fascinating. So now, did they even have an outfit in Jersey still, the decaval cantes?

Yeah. Is that all done? Yeah. That guy, I heard, yeah. Charlie Majury, Steve, Stefan. I don't know if they're still alive. Again, I don't... 21 years ago, wait.

In 01, I walked away from... 25 years ago. 25 years ago. So, but there's got to be some knock-around guys. Still, you know... Yeah, but you know what they're doing? Bookmaking, loan sharking. But the thing, without...

If you take the threat away, I'm not paying you. If I'm a beat artist, you're going to beat a guy ain't going to do nothing to. You're going to pay them? No. go to the feds if you try to threaten me. That's how most people think now.

That's what, they're scared right now because, you know, too sophisticated. Yeah, and also, you know, Brooklyn is too gentrified. Like, have you ever, have you been back to Court Street in Carroll Gardens? Yeah. You know how much those browns songs?

I go back like three, four times a year. Yeah, so you see it. You can't operate on that turf anymore because it's like you got families that go into Whole Foods, white, Asian families, you know, making... And they'll call a cop and a hobby. Exactly. Legenerative people.

And you can't blame them. That's their life. They pay taxes. They should be protected by it, you know. So I want people, because I really had a great time with you, Jimmy, and thank you. And my new life is better. Yeah, you're killing it. You're killing.

I don't want to say where you live, but you're making up. Arkansas. Oh, okay. Jonesboro, Arkansas. Can I get your address, too? Yeah. Yeah. I live at a 7,000 square foot home.

10 acres. That feels good. Matter of fact, they're coming out to film mob cribs. they're going to film something. Okay. You should invite me out, man. Can we shoot guns in your property? Are you allowed to own guns?

I can't own a gun, but you can. There's years all over my property. We feed them. We got 10 acres. Amazing. In the city, in the city I live. Wow. So let's plug your book, man.

Hitman tells all real life facts of the mafia and the witness protection program. Go get it. On Amazon, everything. Mr. Jimmy Easy. What's your last name? My last name is

Marocco. Saraco. Marocco. Yeah. Matter of fact, I got by all my pages, Jimmy underscore Easy underscore Seraco. Great.

Easy was by nickname. So they can check you out. And you have a YouTube channel? Yeah. Okay. It's Jimmy Easy Mafia Life. Okay. It's growing like crazy.

I can't believe it. And you got like the social media they can all follow. We'll put the links in the description of this episode. We'll collab on a bunch of clips with, you know, our pages. But once again, Hitman Tells All by Jimmy Easy. go get it. Jimmy, thank you so much, man.

Thank you very much. Great having me. I really appreciate it. You welcome back anytime. And you too. You'll want to come to Arkansas and 13th or the 14th that come in to film it.

I do. I want to come through. Let's make it happen. All right, you guys, go check them out. We will see you next time. Take care. Thank you.