The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - London Crime Boss Reveals Running A British Crack-Cocaine Empire, Surviving Europe's Worst Prisons

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

In this powerful interview, Carlon Robinson shares his raw and inspiring journey from growing up during the crack epidemic in London, to serving serious time in high-security prisons like Belmarsh, and ultimately turning his life around through education, writing, and entrepreneurship. Carlon speaks candidly about life on the streets, gang rivalries, betrayal, survival, and how he found redemption by channeling his experiences into writing a critically acclaimed play (Every Coin) and publishing his autobiography. He also discusses systemic injustices, wrongful imprisonment issues, and rebuilding after incarceration. Go Support Carlon! IG: https://www.instagram.com/gcmtv.ltd/?hl=en Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Nailed the speech and maxed out your credit card in the name of friendship. Now you've got one hangover, four pastel dresses, and zero reasons to wear them again. Sell them on Deepop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. And you at least get some of your dignity money back. Someone on Deepop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Deepop where taste recognizes taste. I don't know. People used to say I was in a diet. Tomorrow.

I used to wake up every morning and I used to say, well, they said today's my last day. So as today's my last day, I'm going to be the baddest mother who's ever seen today. 35 minutes later, the car was on fire. That's the day I said, yeah. I had a weapon within two hours. That's the day I said, yeah. No one would ever violate like this again. We've gone into the drug game at that point and yeah, at that point I'll shoot you anyway.

I don't care where you are. My plan was this to take over the streets. Now, it's the gunman area. Last month, my team and I made a journey back across the pond to England to interview Carlon Robinson, one of the most notorious drug traffickers from the south end of London. Carlon is the son of Jamaican drug kingpins who introduced crack cocaine to London back in the 1980s. His story could come out of a place like Baltimore or Harlem or South Central L.A. Except somehow, being British makes it even more.

gangster. At his height, Carlon operated one of the most successful criminal enterprises in London's history, importing and selling thousands of kilos of cocaine, running a professional safe-cracking and burglary ring, and doing debt collection and armed security for his fellow British drug lords. His Odyssey takes a page out of the Netflix show Top Boy. Carlon also has an insane journey throughout the British prison system, where he survived assassination attempts, murder charges, and the rest of his life behind bars. After finally getting paroled after 20 years, Carlon turned his life around, and today is a successful television writer and producer. Give him a follow on social media, and if you're in Europe, tap into the reality series he created, which will be airing on British Network Television this year.

One of the baddest yardies to survive the cold streets of London. This is a fascinating one. Make sure to give us a thumbs up and show Carlin some love in the comments. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Carlon Robinson, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. I'm now a stick-up kid. I'm rubbing all drug dealers and then passing it onto my workers for them to sell it.

So I don't care who you are. You got it. If you're slipping, you're going in the boot. It's that season. Open the dog, Mac 10s. I told every man where he lives.

This guy knows where we all live. He's good. You understand? Yeah. Anyway, five minutes dead. They got about 20, 30K from a safe. So how do you, are you excited about this new chapter?

Like, how long did it take you to, to, you know, break into this business. It took me almost 10 years after I got out of prison. Like I came home in 2012, yeah? I moved from Portland, Oregon, which is where I'm from, down to California. And we didn't start this podcast until 2022. That was really what did it. So it was 10 years running.

So when you got out of the game, how long did it take you to, like, build up to what you have popping now? I wrote a book first while I was in jail. Yeah. Then I was studying for my degree at the same time, but then what happened is I wrote a play. Yeah. I tried to get the book published, but the person I wrote to,

which was Esther Baker. She was the director, artist director. She wrote me back, said, I don't do books, I do plays. Read this. She said with this play called Lima's Kitchen. Lima's Kitchen?

A Lima's Kitchen, which was written by a bag called Kwame. Big star over here. I read it and I said, this is shit. I don't know I won any awards. It's not accurate. It's talking about murder mind.

I know murder mind. This is nonsense. I just sent it back to her. And she wrote back to do better. And I thought it was so comical. I said, I fucking will and I wrote a critically gameplay. Wow. The first one?

First one. Damn. That's sick. Straight up to back. Every coin. That was every coin. So when did you come up? You're like a 60s baby?

70s. 70s. So you came up in the 80s. 60s. Sorry, man. That's fucked. My bad, dude.

My bad, dude. They put me here. I was calling you old. I was going to listen to us at the baseball, California. No, no, no, no, no.

You looked like you were born in like 1969. No, 70. Okay. You're 70? 73. 73. Okay. My bad, bad, right.

You've been through a lot, bro. You look good still, bro. You look good still. So you tell us where you're from. I'm from London. South London. And that's what's known as the roads.

Yeah. Like when you hear that, because Americans, we all saw top boy, right? Top boy talking about moving food on the roads. Does that refer to South London? That refers to all the London, but top boys are all that nonsense. Really? Yeah. Wow.

It's not going to be wrong with some bits of it that are true. Yeah. And, you know, gangal life can get like that for the kids and stuff. But yeah, it was all bullocks. And what is your family history? Well, I'm originally from South London. That's where I'm from. I'm from a criminal family.

You are? Yeah, my family was a criminal family who were into all sorts from drugs. Uh-huh. So that, like your father, your uncles? Yeah, uncles, cousins, mom, that side of the family. that side of the family. I see.

With my dad, very early, he was involved in minor stuff, but went legit. Uh-huh. Very early in my life, five, six, seven. Where are black people in London? Do most people trace their roots to Jamaica, to Africa? Like, you know what I mean? Obviously, African-Americans in America can trace their roots to the south, right? The slavery.

But where do, like, where are your people from? Well, I'm Jamaican heritage. Right. However, we were originally come from Africa. Of course. But, yeah, if you used to ask me, to describe myself, it would be British-born. Yeah.

But Jamaican heritage. Okay. And do, are the gangs or the crews, whatever you call them, coming up in the projects, right? There are the estates. Yeah. Are they mostly made up of black people, or is it, are they mixed, right? And London's so diverse.

It is diverse, but it is, I would say, the majority are black now. It seems to be the ones who are killing themselves. The majority are black. Not to say the ones that are the ones who are most highlighted. That's a thing right now with the knife crime. The knife crime? Yeah, because these guys, kids that are killing each other and then going straight to prison the same day.

So I would say black. I can work up to whatever they're up to, normal, as in as with anywhere. However, the gangs that you're speaking about what you're hearing about in terms of knife violence on the street right now, the majority seems to be black. Yeah, I'm just trying to get, because my only context is growing up in America, right? And, you know, when you think about the 1980s, the 1990s, it was crack. crack transformed the ghettos from poor but relatively stable places when heroin to the same hair so it was crack back then yeah I think that they kind of they introduced crack

in I don't know 86 87 right that's about a time when they they introduced it and it's a time I remember very well I was at 13 yeah and I remember a very close friend of mine Dean Wilson who we ended up reforming our gang a few years later, but at that point, he was into selling crack with the Yardis who had just come over at that point. And the Yardis are the Jamaicans, right?

Yeah, and he was 13. Yeah, so that's what he was doing, where we was on the street robbing, we was a different section, but he had the, you know, the big road chains. He's only 13, this guy. Okay, Dean. And so that's what they was doing.

So we was very close to it. And obviously my uncles, that was their season. When crap first came in the monies, it's just ridiculous at that point. Right. I was speaking to my uncle about it recently. He used to make so much money. I could take two grand out of his wardrobe on a Friday. He just didn't know it was there.

Yeah. It was that much money. And I'm only like 13. Right. Bare 50-pound notes. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. So a lot of the same story here as in the States.

I would say 87. And that's when it first went mentor over here. I remember Trevor MacDonald, he's a big new broadcaster. I remember he was on news at 10 when they raided the Lovelincher State back then. That's what it's called the Lovelincher State. So you have the Lovelinch Estate and the ghetto, which they called Track City. That was the government name for it. Right.

That was the first spot that was jumping. Before Stonebridge, before Hackney, before Brickston. get all debt for SCA, crack city. That's where it was happening. And are these, like the estates, you know, those communities you just named, are these housing projects the way, like if you see images of Brooklyn or Harlem,

they're these giant government. Yeah, there are, I would call them, irises. There is I rise blocks of flats in those areas, and that is where, you know, they tend to, they tend to house. poor black criminal. Yeah, it was that section.

Low income. Yeah, low income. So you had that in Brixton, you had that in Deftford, you had that in most of those, those areas, Hackney, Tottenham. Right. And these are south and like...

South, east, north and west, even west London, which is more upper class. They had their council flats. Uh-huh. As they're, um, yeah, they're council flats too. And did you grow up in a flat, a council flat? Um, did I,

I grew up in a council flat. I lived in a council flat for maybe a couple years. Initially, obviously I lived my mum initially in my grandmum's house, massive house that was on Queens Road. Then we moved from there to Lucia, which, again, it was a big house, so I still wasn't in the council house. Yeah, yeah But I'm in the road still

But then Then I moved in my mom We lived in a council house I might have been there But two years Before I went to Jamaica So I didn't spend Too long in a council flat

I see Were you guys poor Would you describe yourself As low income? What did your mom do? Early days My mom was a criminal The rest of my family

They was bringing in It was It was just normal To see mom in 10 grand fur coal. Roelian Ois was pretty normal. Uncle's the same. Prop shoes.

Yeah, that's how they're done at the highest level. So they were bringing Coke in from Jamaica? I was saying they bring Coke in from Jamaica. They was bringing Coke from everywhere or drugs from anywhere or money from everywhere. And my mother, she at the time, was dating. Most people I'm on London's most serious men, if not. Yeah. Wow.

A black gentleman? Yeah, black guy. His name was Vincent. I don't have much to do with him these days, but yeah, he was a very serious gangster out of Brixton, most probably the most feared ever. Wow. So you guys actually were street rich.

You guys had money. Yeah, we had money. I wouldn't say I was street rich. They were street rich. I had anything that I wanted. All designer clothes. Yeah. All of that stuff.

But, yeah. So why were you out there at 13, you got your crew? Why were you out there, Robin, if you could just take two grand and drug money from your uncle? Well, that's when I was tiptoeing on his floor, because I had to watch the creeks to make money. I'd done that for a while until he got onto it. And I've still got the mark now. You see it right there. It's still there to this day.

Sleeping in the cellar because I couldn't sleep upstairs. I've heard him come. I just can't move. I know he's coming down the stairs. I'm too tired. And he's just got his foot back, like a football. And gone, hey! Ed's gone.

Yeah, bare blood. That was the end of that. Yeah. So you got to go out and make your own bones, so to speak. Yeah. We want a party. We don't want nothing to it. We're going, we just want a party those days.

Those days, it wouldn't be, you know, two, 300 quid. we're good. Yeah. Yes, you had a crew of dudes. Now, were the council flats? I don't know. I'm sure I'm not calling them right. Would you mind if I just call them the projects?

Yeah, just, okay. So with the projects in London back then, late 80s, crack era, were they violent the way they were in the States where it was just bodies every day turning up because of the crack money? There wasn't bodies every day yet. You guys were a bit before us.

don't be wrong there's people still dying all over the place but not like states Yeah It was wars back in the In America back then Yeah

And the wars over here Started initially I would say From I'll say about 87 You used to have two major sounds One from Deptford

Where I'm from Called Saxon sound And one from Brixton Called Coxon Sound And they were rivals they play reggae music

and the DJs would clash each other but each sound has got their own fans so when we're going to these big events they got all their speakers we stabbed the speakers to death and they would do the same

and fights would kick off and I think that's what engineered a lot of the early tension between Brixton and Deptford because of that rivalry between the sounds and yeah during that period there's a lot of old deers

and yeah people used to kick off from all over so Dexton and Brixton Debtford and Brixton these almost sound like soccer clubs but they're they're gangs They're areas they're there They're areas that at gangs Yeah

I profile gangs yeah Okay and you were part of what set I was from Debtford I was from Debtford Originally the gang was called The Get Oman them. Everyone's,

everyone's, well, there's a few people contesting if I was the founder. They're chatting shit. Yeah? It was the ghetto man them.

And then we went to jail, 1989. I went to jail. Dean Wilson, who I told you about. He went to jail too. And we were in the same jail. And we're in getting ghetto,

where we're from. We become tight out. Then we was, no did he. Then we was, when we was on the streets, You understand? And we say when we're going on, when we go on,

we're going to reform and go again, and that's what we've done. We hit the road to, we hit the road in 1993, reformed, the ghetto man, them and changed it to ghetto boys, G.B.

I've been told that there was already a ghetto boys and I'm not the founder. And then I kind of thought about it, and I thought, Okay, there's seven of you that are saying this, but I violated every single one of you when I came out. So take your pick.

I'm either the founder or I fucking took the gang, whatever you want to call it. You can run with it. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local total wine and more to grab a great bottle to share. With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy.

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But you were the one that turned it into a gang in Britain, in London. No, no, my team. There's other gangs from other areas. There's loads of different gangs. Yeah. But we just changed the name and we went and put our gang on the map. So I was the one who took my gang, my team on my shoulders and went to every area and only came back with Ws. Right.

So now you're the ghetto boys and you're the originator. You're the leader. Yeah. You're 20 now. So you did a four piece in prison? What did you go down for originally? I went down for a knife and robberies. Can you explain that?

I got caught with a knife. I think it was in a car or something in the knife. Can't really remember. And the robberies, I was like 13.40, you know, in a way. Just petty street robberies. Robbing people. We used to rob the whole bus back then. The first thing to get camered up, a lot of people don't know this,

was the 36 and the 36B buses. and that was because we would get on the bus maybe 10 of us and we just did that whole bus we just get robbed, gasped, robbed and just jump off at a certain stop and we've gone in the wind after three, four, five, six months of this

up and down, that route. Right. The police were like, no, that was the first thing they ever put cameras on in 1987. Wow. I think the only place that might have had cameras, I think was the bank.

And now the whole city is the most surveilled in the world. Yeah, but at 36, 36B. The first thing, they're like, upstairs. They've got the cameras on. Well, thanks a lot, Carlin. You've turned this city into a George Orwell nightmare. So you're jumping on there, these 14-year-old little black kids with knives, and you're just cleaning, and taking old ladies' purses and just cleaning shit out.

No, no, no, leave the old ladies. You leave the laws. But, you know. The old boss is just getting it. You're just getting it. Yeah, everyone just gets robbed. Me, personally, I'm not going to be taking old ladies. stuff, but that's serious business.

So you guys, that's some G shit. I would call it petty shit. But for that age, I was 13. I was like 13 at that point. Did your parents know? I mean, first of all, did you have, was your father around? Or was it just your mother? Father was around, but he's not living with us.

Okay. And he's the one that got out of the game. Yeah, and he ain't got no control over me at that age. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Before we move forward, knife crime. All you hear about in London is knife crime. Guns are really illegal and hard to get in Britain.

People do get. They're not hard to get. They're not hard to get? No. You just don't hear about all the shootings. There's just many guns as knives that are on the world. Right. So back then, though, like the drug wars that popped off because of crack, right, in the hood,

were those murders, knife murders mostly? No, guns. There was still gun murders. Yeah. Okay. but why do you hear so much about knife crime? Is that because the city is so cameraed up? It's easier for people to get away with killings using a knife?

Or why is knife crime so big compared to like America, do you think? I think knife crime is so big in this country now. It's because it's accessible. They can get them. It doesn't cost a lot. That's the first thing. Second, the kids are scared. Confused.

and they lost and the majority of them don't want to be involved in knife crime however because of where they live or because of what's happened to someone else around them they got no choice but to carry a knife

to stay alive so yeah it's rife right now because they all live pretty much in a very small circle what's the difference between now and back then when you were carrying knives

and Robin Butter You know, like, why weren't you carrying guns? Like little thugs in America, 13-year-olds have little 22s on them. Yeah. It seems like you start out with a knife first. Yeah, you can go, you can start off with a knife, but these kids, to answer your question, it's, that's my opinion. I just think these guys are just scared.

Yeah. And they've got nice majority of them is just for protection. And why you're hearing about it is because, I asked one of them, like, why would you stab him to death or stab someone to death on camera and go straight to prison the same day? I don't understand the logic. In our day, we wanted money. They don't want no money these guys.

They just want the stripes. Sonny explained because if I don't get them, they're going to get me. When did you, by the time ghetto boys was a thing and you had come home, were you now carrying a gun? Like at one point did you move from knives to guns, your crew? Personally, I would say 93. Yeah. When I came on, I came home 93 January.

And I got into a drama with one of the most notorious guys from Brixton, RIP, Arthur Penny. His name's Arthur Penny, Jason Dawes, ruthless gangster. And I knew him from the bird that I just done. He was older, about a couple years older. Savage, animal. Yeah? One of the best has ever been.

Give him that. And we fell out anyway. We went to go out on a bit of work and there's one knife in the car. It was actually a knife in the car. I'm driving. He couldn't drive. But he'd have the knife. And he's talking the wickedest when he's got the knife.

Dickhead, drive the car, man. You're talking too much. It's all in banter, but he's got the knife. So his jokes are a bit more heavier than mine. Hour later, I've got the knife. And I'd be like, yo, dickhead, whatever. That's what's going on. He fucked up the move anyway.

And when he was coming back, he had the knife. He went under my throat. Like, yeah, take this left pussy. I'm going to show you how, is that words? I'm going to show you how Brickston, man, deal with Deptford, man. Oh wow, bro. So this is half a penny, yes. He's got the throat under my throat.

We're driving. I'm like, bro, what is wrong with you? We're like family, bro. Come on. Yeah, I'm going to bar with it, but I'm just talking all the shit that I need to talk and we pulled up. He got out of that way.

I was gone. Came back maybe 35 minutes later. The car was on fire. That's the day. I said, yeah. I had a weapon within two hours. Yeah. You had. That's the day. I said, yeah. No one would ever violate like this again. So you got yourself a gun? Yeah.

I mean, the knife crime to me is so fucking ruthless. Like, my gray, I'd rather be shot any day than stabbed, you know. So you guys are some, as the Jamaican say, some bad man over here, you know? You know what? It's never been. my thing, I'm not even going to lie to you. That's, oh, I'm knives. Never. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a bit of a scared of Catholic.

I'm sorry. I don't want to. I didn't really without what my thing. Don't poke me. Yeah, but to be fair, I just think these guys are just, there's so many different reasons for it. There's the jewel music.

That plays a big role. Yeah? Yeah. And me personally, I think it's all been orchestrated for us, by the powers to be, hence why we're here. Because you've got these jewel guys. And that's not to say that there isn't other genres or film that doesn't cause crime too.

But with the Jewel guys, they are paid significant sums to rap dual music. And dual music is rapping about how many bodies you've got, how many people you've stabbed. How many people have you killed, then dig them back up and then cured them again because they're following Americans. Because these Americans have gone crazy. Yeah. So if a, if a, let's say someone from Universal gives that rapper 200 backs, then he goes over and gives him 400 backs, then he goes over there and gives him 600 backs.

And they're all rapping about stabbing each other. So that's what it is right now. If you want to be, if you're a young kid 12 and you're like, I want to be a rapper, I want to do, I want to make a dual song. Yeah. The oldest or whoever are going to tell you, when you've got to go stab people, so you've got something to speak about. Wow.

So that whole culture is breeding knife crimes, pretty violence. 100% is breeding. It's breeding knife crime. That was true of rap, of gangster rap. I mean, I like to think it was deeper. Like, I like to think American gangster rap and hip hop was a lot more talented than the drill rap. But it definitely caused a lot of middle class and working class kids from the ghetto from good families, though, two parent working families to say,

yeah, I'm going to go get a gun and a crack sack. That's what it was orchestrated for, right? That's what, that was Diddy's job, right? That's what Puff Daddy, that's what Puff Daddy was tasked. That's what Ice Cube said. Ice Cube said it was, you know, CIA orchestrated. That was his job. Come here, Puff, Daddy, end over.

Oh. Thank you. It's Bad Boy Records, but this is the formula. Nobody gets on without them doing certain things and we've got a video. Take that, take that. Oh, my God. That was the loop. That was the loop.

Take that, take that. It was an echo too. Go. What fuck. That's what this guy has been doing. Yeah. Yeah. And it hasn't stopped until now.

Right. So now we're finding out everybody's bisexual. We're finding out Tupac. We were always just there. Two Pact was an actor. He wasn't a gangster. No, it was not. Now we're finding out and seeing certain videos of Tupac before he started the gangster nonsense.

All fag. Right. And he was obviously bisexual. So it just shows you the extremes that the powers that be went through and that's what's Puff that he accused of he's accused of not only drugging and raping multiple different men and women

but also blackmailing, don't forget, blackmailing the rappers to push a certain narrative. That gangster rap, shoot them, shoot them, whatever. But you were really living that. That's the difference. So, you know, the rappers emulate the street. We all know that.

So the street comes first, right? And the rappers are just journalists. So 93 ghetto boys. You're 20. You got your crew. You say you were going to different sections and getting Ws. What were you guys doing? Like, what was the move?

I had a lot of wars, didn't I? I was a bit troublesome. So I had my war with Penny, Wrixton guy. We're going to that one too much because he's not hearing all. more, but it was very eye profile because the same day that the car got burned out, his partner, girlfriend

ended up on Brixton Hill stripped naked and she was informed tell your, by somebody, tell your bad boy boyfriend that on site is going down. Wow. And yeah, she went down, Brickston Hill

and went and told him. So, yeah. Is this over drug turf, though? Like, what are you, when you're infiltrating, What is the purpose? That was an issue that there was. But what's behind it though? Like, are you guys now?

With that particular issue was because we went on a move, went out there to get some money. Basically, it was a, I had a girl who worked for an airline, and she phoned me and said, listen, I've got, I don't know what it was then. It was like 20 bags or something. Got 20 bags.

I'm dropping it off to the bank. Come get it. Come get it. So I get Penny and I'm saying, yo, listen, inside job. She's going to That car She's going to be outside

Lean in The bag's going to be there Just grab it, get in the car He's walked past, come back Then he's like Am I taking him for a punk In Brixton? Everybody should,

like me and him should go I'm saying you can't drive I've got my foot on the gas bro Grab get in the car And it fucked up And that's what we fell out over That's what I see That's what I issued there was over

That just escalated Right But then his girlfriend got kidnapped And then we're in jail And we're beefing in jail he's trying to burn me up with oil at one point. Yeah, there was so much going on with him. That's a bit of beef.

So it sounds like your crew was, you guys weren't just dedicated drug dealers. You guys were into whatever was winning. That was before, to be honest with you, that was before I personally got into drug dealing on any form of level. Okay. When I mentioned the drug dealing before,

which was Dean, we became a right-hand man. That's what they was doing. We was doing a lot of robberies. He was in the yardings. We wasn't even doing them. Okay. We didn't even know what was really,

how much he was making until when we met in Zhao. Yeah. That's when he's breaking down, but this is what was really getting on. Okay. Then when we came back home, then we reformed G.B. Get old boys.

And so we, yeah, most sports at that point was just about egos, disrespect. Right. And maybe some form of turf was in terms of guys coming onto your patch you shouldn't be on your patch so tell me about the drugs

tell me about getting down with Dean and the Yardis like how did that grow and what did that look like well Dean Dean those guys as I said they got into it very early when the Yardis first came over there was a guy called

I think it was Keity Flaps who was a notorious Jamaican RIP and he was the brother of a notorious another notorious Jamaican called Willie Agar. He was one of the most notorious Jamaican gangsters ever, period. So Dean, those guys were under, those guys doing what they're doing.

I wasn't a part of that. I'm doing my own thing. We're on the streets. It's just moving like menace. But then we went to jail. Then when we came home, we reformed. When we came home at that point, Dean didn't go back into selling drugs.

I just done five years for it. I didn't go that way, evil. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile, the message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Up front payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. When I came home in 1993, the youngest, the younger Ghibi, the younger Ghetto Boys, were being controlled by the leader of a rival gang, Peckham.

Okay? So there was a guy called Bucking Mark who used to, he's from Peckham, who's the Peckham, who's the peckon number, you might have heard of gigs, the guy hanging around with Diddy now. You're the Vah rapper called Giggs? I think so. Yeah, I don't like what Diddy. He's done with gigs, but we'll get to that later. Yeah, it's not cool.

But, Bucky was from Peckham, and he had the GB youngsters under his banner. Selling dope for him? All sorts. They was mostly hitting safes, to be honest. Anything this guy had touched, he turned to gold. I'm in jail, say three, four months before I come home, I'm biting at the...

Who's this Peckham? How dare he? How dare he? My kids die. Right. Anyway, I came out and he was, I just, I found him within maybe two days. And just politely explained to him that this wasn't on. Had you caught a body at this point?

Are you allowed to talk about it? If you're not. No, no, no, no. All right. A lot of people we've had on this show have gone to prison and proffered, you know, cooperated or just taking a deal, right? Not necessarily snitched, although a lot of them have, but some of them just copped to bodies and they're allowed to talk about it. You can't talk about it?

Yeah, no, no, no. I wasn't, I'm not a killer. I'm not a murderer. Okay. Did you have cats in your crew that had bodies on them by the time they were 20? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You live in that life, aren't you? You're in that life, but over it is a bit different to America.

Like I wouldn't sit there and speak about guys in my team or guys who I associate with who. I've got bodies unless they're convicted. Yeah. Then that kind of thing. Do you get it? Is there a statute of limitations like there is in America? There's no, I mean, there's no statute of limitations. No.

Okay. So same, same with Britain. Yeah. Are there similar RICO laws, meaning like, racketeering laws that we have in the United States? I think they've got a different version here. It's not like your, your, your, your, your, recalls a bit different. But I feel with the,

UK, they tend to, um, they tend to follow America, don't they? Yeah. So they got, they got different things. Sure. I mean, they've got different tricks to, to get us. Yeah. What is like the, you know, your man, Dean, who went to prison for five for drugs, like, what do you have to get caught with to get five years? Like in America, if you don't have a prison record, you get caught with a couple of kilos, you probably do about five. You get sentenced to seven. You do five. What is, what is that here? No, it was different. I remember back then, my understanding from watching everybody going to prison,

you could get Nick with two stones. Two 20 pounds stones selling it to undercover, intent supply, you're gone. Yeah. Did you get it? Okay. I remember with Dean,

I don't know. I think they raided their house. I don't know what they found. They might have found like a nine bar, half a nine ball, all chopped up into a lot of stones. Who knows, you might have sold to four different undercovers.

I know he did sell to a couple undercovers being greedy and got birded off. So it changed, it differs. And it's changed from then to now as we go through the story. Then when we, obviously, there's a later stage when we do get into that kind of thing. Well, America was the same way with crack. You got caught with, like, in New York State, for example, they had this thing called the Rockefeller laws,

where if you had over just two ounces of crack, it was a life sentence. So we did powders different, though. Like if you get caught with powder, you do the same amount of time for an ounce of crack as you do for like five kilos of powder cocaine. So I don't know. Here is it similar? Like are those sentencing different for powder versus hard? Yeah, yeah. I think for...

They've changed them. They've reformed them a little bit. Before, I think you used to get more for crack. I believe. Yeah, probably. Now I'm not even too sure. Because, you know, they've now got different tires. You know, if you're the boss, if you're on the boss,

they're so much different rules in terms of how they were sentenced to you, you know. Do they have a life in prison? Is that a possibility? Can you do a straight life with no parole? Yeah. You can? Yeah. Huh.

Yeah. If you get normal, I've got two lives and a hundred years and I'm here. Wow. Okay. Save that. Yeah. Touch wood. But there's...

Okay. So tell us, wow, it's fascinating. Yeah, but it is... But there's people who do... get, they call it a natural life, where they get a life sentence and they're never going to come out. Yeah. Or they get something called the white paper, which is that bit of paper from the home office saying. Nobody wants that.

Sorry, bro. You're not coming out. There's a few people. I know who have got that along the way. Yeah. So if you get caught with a couple of bodies, if you get caught from murders, you might get the white paper. A bit more than that. You've got to be kind of, yeah, I don't, if you, yeah, I don't, two bodies, ain't, if you had a body already, then they'd be like, yeah, you're doing too much.

But I know people who have got three bodies, there's a guy called Chunky, I know, he's in there for Triple M, Revenge Attack, and he ain't got the white paper. Right. But he's got a 40, 45 wreck, though. Right. So he's got at least 45 to do. So it's basically life. It's almost life. Yeah, yeah, because you're finished.

Yeah, damn. And when you do, what you got 45 in there, you're probably not behaving like you got a future. There you go. And that's the thing with prison. And you go to the politics with the Muslims and non-Muslims and all that war that's going on in there. How can you behave? Okay, so tell me about it.

Tell me about the moves you were making when you came home in 93 and getting with Dean and how you grew your criminal career. So came home 93, savage. 16 and a half stone everything's just Yeah It's my time Get me

I'm next man up I hit the roads I found Bucky Mark Who was the head of the Peckham guys Who had the younger Ghetto Boys

Under his wing And I found him In Lucian Way I never forget I was with One of the younger's Dads And yeah

I just explained to him Like look bro This is this is ridiculous I don't know what's going on here but these are my kids they're my youngest and we're going to have to share

bro I mean I want an easy life too bro but right now and yeah we we came to an agreement and yeah I joined we all became one

anything this guy touched turned to gold anything okay so what were you guys doing I can remember one time we're coming from Strud's Struitt which is near Rochester It's like 5 o'clock

Shop slows up 5.30 We're going out tonight We've been out since 8 a.m. that morning We ain't got no money They stopped outside some hardware shop There's one other shop There's nothing here And I'm in the car just pissed

Thinking what's going on here But next thing I see a man climbing up a ladder Anyway five minutes there They got like 2030K from a safe anything this guy touched turns to go okay so that's going on yeah we both got so you guys are like professional safe crackers i'm not taking no credit he's the professional yeah he uses the kids as a distraction so that kid might be speaking to that way he might be there do do so you ain't you ain't using them like making them do all the work it's a it's a team effort to get you

but anything he's touching is turn into gold. And yeah, everything was all fine. We became very close, me and him. And then we fell out over a girl, a girl called Sabrina, Naomi Campbell's first cousin, by the way. Yeah. So probably a bad bitch, right? Bad bitch.

Sexy as fuck that time. Yeah, sexy as fuck. But anyway, I'd mind my... Let me face that. We'd done a little thing, and that was the end of that. And Bucky, he starts seeing her, okay? And she's feeling up with all nonsense. I'm in the house.

And I've turned up there to meet him. We're like this at that point. And he's going, yo, bro, did you fucking say this? I'm saying, bro, she's talking rubbish. Ro, wow, wow, right. He's showing off from that because she's, I'm like, bro, me and you're not going to fight over a girl. We're not going to do that.

I don't usually talk like this. I'm 100 miles and now what. And he's like, no, fuck that, bro. I'm saying,

bro, we're just not going to do it. You're my pal. Going out, gone outside the flat, he's talking shit going down the lift

or walking the stairs. He's talking shit. Get downstairs. He's still talking shit. By now, whatever. Anyway, cut the story short.

He gets left left in a pool of blood. Screaming with best friends. I'm saying, brother, I've been telling you that for the last half hour. Yeah?

So that was the end of him. I didn't see him again. To he's in prison in H&P, Swelside. So tell us about the moves you were making after you guys fell out. That's what I'm saying. We was, then he went his way. Then we, I took my team, the youngest, and we branched off. And we went into computer chips.

Okay? So the robberies and all that stuff, that's now being committed by other gangs, Wigston gangs. but we went into computer chips. What does that mean? That means basically you get a crowbar, you get a torch,

you've got your gloves, you got your L plate rental, it's that period, escort, 16 valve. You hit the motor when you find the building. Crowbar, bust dot, torch, check where the sensors are, okay, you're cool, you've got your gloves on,

you're rolling, and you get the computers. So at first we take, it was like 286, 386, 486, 486, 586, then you add the, the Apple Macs, 650s, 950s, the box alone are $1,500 pound a box. So you're taking the whole computers or just the modems?

Yeah, you take that box, just a box, it's $1,500 a pop at that. So you find a building, there's like 40 on this floor, there's like 50 floors, there's 30 floors, all 950s. So you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars score. That's what's going on. It's the computer chip error. We fell into it. And, um, who are you selling them to?

We got two peelers. We got, well, there's a few people, but there's two people who we deal with. But the main guy I deal with, um, they say I get 40 gram worth of chips, computer or boxes. I'd go to his house. He was ripping us off at first, but we didn't know this. I'd go to his house. Give him the computers. And, um, it'd say come back at 12 o'clock.

Yeah? they say it's 8 o'clock in the morning it's they come back at midday. What I didn't know is he was stripping the Sims out, taking the chips out. So when we come back, you're like, those 15 they're no good, bro, but these ones, they're cool. He's fucking raped

the boxes, isn't it? But what he would do, we'd come back, let's say he's got 40 grand. He's come back, he'd say, turn around tea, or turn around tiny, turn around, they go, they open he's safe. And they put 40 on the table, and they put another 40 on the table. Like, let's say, that's your 40,

and there's another. 40 for you to come back with. Your inspiration is waiting for you on the table. You know what? Wait there. Go somewhere to come back. The baby Oozies. Like, you know what? Your phone's ringing too much. You're the kingpin. You need this in your life. Bam. Ola.

So it hits you off of an Uzi. Yeah. This is how we're moving, right? So every day, I'm going, I'm getting the computers every single day. I've got one guy. He's one of the kings. I'm going to have to, yeah, Phil, Phil Boy, he's one of the kings. He said he doesn't work on.

Sundays. He's a man on a cloth. He's a religious man. Yo. And he genuinely didn't. Whereas I liked working weekends. Because the offices are closed. Right.

So I could, you know, in the wintertime, I could hit somewhere at five o'clock, eight o'clock. And I could do free jobs on a Sunday or on a Saturday. Because the offices are close. But he's at his thing, he's not working. Yeah. So that's what we was doing at that point. We was licking a lot of computer chips, computer chips.

So this is like better. than drug money with less risk almost. And you're not getting no bird. That's what. You're not getting no sentence. You know, even if you get caught, it's only commercial burglary. Right. You might get six months.

Right. Nine months, 12 months. You ain't getting no, the kind of bird. Five years, ten years. Yeah. It's not that. And are you going to like these office towers in downtown London? We're hitting everywhere.

It don't matter where any form of building that uses color, because that's what the Apple Macs are. Right. hospitals, universities, colleges, anything with computers, you are, yeah, we're on to you. Now, are CCTV cameras becoming a thing? Do you go in with masks or disguises? What's like a, tell us just like a job,

like one really memorable job that you stands out in your mind. A memorable one. One of them on one of my favorites, yeah. Usually, obviously, you go to the buildings, you've got your mask on in it. So you park up wherever you've parked. You're checking, there, you're sensors, call bar. And there's a lot of time there's a security guard that comes around every hour or something. Or you might have one who's stationed.

I remember one time we was hitting the building and he was watching porn. Do you get it? It's just like that. You just go around looking and then you just... You just... You just make the joint. Yeah, you just make your move. I think one of the best ones,

it was one of the best ones, actually, was it was me, Trevor, who we would speak about. He's one of the early members. I'm not sure if Sparks was there. But I know it was me and Trevor and someone else, I can't remember where it was. It might have even been Sparks. How big were your crews generally?

Like four are you guys? Maine. There's maybe five of us, Maine guys, and then all the different splinters. Right. Maine, who I trust, who I link on a daily. Like, maybe four or five guys. Okay.

Then you got the splinters. So anyway, we've got this car. It's a rusty. That means it's a banger, okay? This car is fucked. Just come from jail, yeah? And we've got a building. This building is in, like, London somewhere, central.

Not right in the heart, but it's in a hot place, you understand? Yeah, we ain't got no tools, nothing, you understand? So we've got this car there. We pulled up outside the beach. building, but this car, there's one problem. If you turn it off, it don't start. You've got a jump start. You understand? So you can't let this car, what's it called? Yeah? And we ain't got no tools. We've just come from the Bing. So I've just got a brick. I've gone in there and we've got all the computers and we've loaded up, yeah? And they're helping me load off and the alarm's gone off and

I've got in the car. They've got to push started. Yes, they pushed it. Yes, they pushed it. Got to the bottom of the road, boom, it started. I've gone. I can't stop because the alarm, isn't it? Yeah. Gone, got about a mile up the road, five o'was behind me. They pulled me over. They said, yeah, anyway, there was wires hanging out of the car. Yeah, that's why they pulled me over. So, like, what's going on? What's all this? Oh, my God, nightmare. I got to take the X4 or 5s out of 25 computer boxes and put them in with a zon. ZK2s and then get the chip from Canada. That's arriving at 9 a.m.

I'm exhausted. They're like, yeah, who do you work for? I said, you got a number? Yeah, I got a number. Okay, there my mom's number. They called my mom's like, half two in the morning. Woke her up. Boom, boom, do you know, blah, blah, blah.

Yep. And does he work for you, yep. What's he got in his presence? Computer chips. That was it. They helped me, put the computers back in the car, gave me a push start, yeah? And I drove off.

How did you know those cops were cool? Which I mean I didn't know they were cool But oh they didn't know they were stolen No Oh wow okay I thought you were caught I thought you like I was talking a load of nonsense About X3-4s are going to be transferred into

I'm a computer engineer That's why I've got these Do do do it right Because my mom knows what I'm doing now She's been doing this for a while She knows what we're on I'm on computer chip mode She knows the only thing I'm going to have at this time

I'm like this fucking computer chips Right And she answered it And she told them Yeah Works for me computer chips To do the phone down they helped me put the wire in, gave me a push start, got away, and I was fuming.

And the two guys, my two pals, I said, you ain't getting a fucking penny. Oh, shit. But that was a memorable. That's a close call, man. Yeah. Yeah. And cops back then didn't know, nobody in the 90s knew this, like, technical computer jargon anyway. No, it's computers.

No, no, you didn't know it. No, no. You're just talking, I'm just talking in riddles. There was your mom proud of you that you had your own hustle. now? I want to say she's proud of me because I'm committing crime. Yeah, but your mom taught you, or she was committing crime your whole child. She didn't teach me, but she was

committing crime, but it wasn't a case of doing what I do. Was she at this time when you start doing computer chips? Is she still in the game? No. So she got out? Yeah, well... Did she ever do time? No. Okay.

Not at that point. She done time at once, I believe, when I was very young. So they never tried to put you down in the drugs. drug game, your uncles or anything like that? Say it again? Your uncles and your mother's side of the family, the ones doing dirt selling all this dope, they never tried to

put you down, meaning put you on with a package or anything like that? That came later but wasn't from my uncles. Okay, okay. That was later on a couple years after computer chip error. Okay.

Then, so we got that error, the computer chits. It's the best error in the world. As far as I'm concerned, jungle raves have just started That's when the jungle music have started Our gang, we're the one of the sharpest We don't repeat our clothes Wear it to the clubs once

You never see it again The Gucci loafers is your warm ones You never see it again So we've got our gang It's me, Dean Wilson Stuart You guys have whips? You guys have nice webs?

Yeah Sparks and Trevon We just rave and party So our average day at that point Would be I don't know wake up at 10 o'clock, straight to Harrods, go shopping, have something to eat, drop the shit off, hit the motorway.

They hit the motorway maybe eight, nine, got a building, come back on the motorway, maybe two in the morning, pull off at the Peeler, the computer man's house, because he lived over Cuban, which was right by the North Circular. So, you know, the worst thing is when you come back on the motorway, and you get nicked. You know, like you've done all the work from Manchester, got back to London,

you get into the inner city and you get pulled over. It's a nightmare. So the only thing is where our guy lived, as we come onto the North Circular, you pull off the North Circular, his house was just there. So it was a nice little spot. Right.

So, yeah, we just done, we've done that for a little while until we got arrested. And I got three years. And my co-defendant, Trevor, who was a part of my team, he got two years. How long are we guys running before you took that fall?

A couple years, few years. Wow. So you guys did a lot of jobs? Yeah, computer chips. Computer chips was, it was just all the guys would do. As I'll tell you, the guy, Philip Philboy, he's one of the kings when it comes to computer chips. I remember I didn't even meet him. He came out on only.

He was in jailful. I don't know what for. He came on home leave. It's the first I ever heard of him. and he brought his girlfriend an escort convertible and went straight back. We're only, I mean, with 1920, you know what I mean? He's 22.

But we'd show off on each other to inspire each other. So, you know, the word and the world was like, he just came on, bought his girl a convertible, fucked off. Like, okay, computer chip, and that's where it started for us. Wow. So you guys kind of like were on the ground floor of that crime. Yeah, yeah. And you were living almost like drug dealers,

like high-level drug dealers, with going out to these jungle raves and dressing all flashy and shit. Like you guys were getting real money. No, we're getting, we're getting real money out. The drug game at that point, I knew a few people who were all getting money at that eye level. There was one guy, it was a friend of mine, actually.

His name was Sky. He said the same period. George Caporo, RIP. He was a very close friend of mine. He was a very close friend of him. New from prison previous. Six foot four, Savage. And that was the same jungle period

I remember he came out and then they went to the Coliseum and someone got it wrong didn't know where he was and they gassed him yeah CS gas

and rushed him and then he left and the range rover came back in a 500 SEL smoked both of them yeah yeah straight jumped out to 500

SEL on smoke smoke them and he was hard to get because his father was a diplomat. Oh shit. Yes, he was gone. Wow. And he could fly back in and that. Yeah, his father was a diplomat.

He ended up getting killed in Spain. Wow. Actually, but those guys, they were doing drugs on the eye level. Yeah, yeah. But again, even that period, it still wasn't my thing. Right. We're still on computers. We're eating nice.

We're all right. You know what's funny? We all grew up watching Guy Ritchie films. And it was all these, like, we thought it was real comedy, you know, like all of these, like, quirky, eccentric British gangsters that are into all of these weird crimes. Like, we don't know any, there's no crime in America except drugs. That's the only thing we grew up on was selling dope. So we were like, who are these goofy British motherfuckers with all of these, like, off-brand hustles? Turns out all that shit's true.

Guy Rich, he's just borrowing from real stories like this. Guy Ritchie Yeah I didn't ask for your opinion on him But I'm saying It's real wild Okay so But you eventually go back

You got three years Yeah I get a free I got three years Tell us about prison Your first stretch When you got locked up at 16 Were you in an adult prison Or like a juvenile place

I was 15 14 You know, Y-O-Y. I was in a Y-O-Y, which is a Y-P-G-L juvenile, yeah. Felt them initially, then I end up going to Ellsby, where I'd down the chunk of it. Again, it's a young prison. Savage, though. A lot of fighting?

Yeah, yeah, it's where all the lifers are. All the serious from my age group, they're there. So this second stretch, though, now you're an adult. What was that like? Which one? Now for the computers. Oh, the computers. The computers.

Yeah, the computers I got three years. And it was a tough one that one. I had so much going on. And I was with someone as well. She was doing really, really well, doing better than I was. What was she doing? She was trafficking drugs. She had bad girls smuggling drugs for her from Jamaica and America.

But she was... Power couple. Yeah, yeah, it was that. And it was a funny thing because everyone was trying to keep her away from me. Because they knew if I met her, these are my uncles, they knew if I met her, that was it. Their game was up. They wasn't fucking her. But it was a source where they know if I meet her because where I'm moving, I'm sick.

You're fucking the product up. Yeah, yeah. She's mad at you. Your uncles might not get the re-up. Right, yeah. So she was hitting off your uncles? Like, that's how high she was? She's doing on another level, right?

But I used to hear about her because she used to always have designer clothes to sell. Like top level, do you get it? Designed, like, loads of them. They're getting them from Harrod's Self, which is to do, and I used to buy a lot of that stuff, do you get me? But I'd never meet her.

They kept her away from me. And then I remember I went to Jamaica. We all went to Jamaica, me and my uncles, about five of us went out there. and he went to he owed me sorry, no, we booked in using his Jamaican passport

so I pay local rate so I'm in a top level auto in his name using he owes me about eight grand okay? He ain't planning on paying me I didn't know this

anyway he's in the he's in the auto room he obviously sees me coming up from Nepal He waits to his ears He's at the door and he's got the phone Yeah, yeah

Now my nephew's going to be here Now give him free grand Give him free grand English Free Grand US Don't touch the US It's not mine There's no one on the phone by the way Yeah, he's tricking me

Do you understand? Yeah, so I'm like okay Dda-da-da-da-da So he goes, listen, blah blah blah blah's coming He's gonna give you blah blah blah blah That's like cool It was all a trick

Anyway he fucks off He goes to Mantigo Bay The phone rings about two hours later. It's the girl. Her name is Wendy. She's like, it's Sherman there. That's my uncle.

I said, now he's gone my bay. She goes, I'm flying in tomorrow. I'm saying, yeah? What time? Whatever. All right, boom, got you. I'm there, in it. Boom, swung, pick her up, and that's how I met her.

And yeah, we... Okay. We was inseparable. Thick as thieves. But you were still not even working with drugs, even though you're dating this... But we're inseparable. She's letting me know what I...

What she's... doing to it. Yeah. And I remember I went to her, we end up after being around everybody for a week, we end up going to a spot up in the country. She had a nice spot up there. And I remember

after about a week and a half, I ran out of cash. I needed to go to the Western Union. Because someone had sent some cash down to get it. But my passport was at the house. And she was like, is that what you're going to go for? It's two hours. Just to get the passport. She went, just open the Louie.

She goes, yeah, fuck. that and we end up staying out there and then she went back about two weeks before me and when I came back she picked me up and yeah we were busy we're inseparable from there and um right so that's what you had

to leave when you went you got locked up yes then I got locked up for the computer chips and I was in Chelmsford and do you do all your time or do you have an opportunity to get out early on good behavior it depends

what time you're doing at that point I was doing well I was on remand initially wasn't I then I got three years yeah but what happened when I first got nicked I was in Chelmsford and whatever it was for it wasn't for the full charge so I could have got out I was supposed to get out after maybe two months and never forget the same girl she wrote me and she said when you step out of that gate every man's gonna want to walk in your

shoes I came out the gate She bought a brand new BM It was red cream leather interior Um FIL 548 number place She brought it off from Nigel Ben's girlfriend Sharon Ruth was down

Look beautiful The only problem was I was handcuffed The police had got me for another offence The computer chips Oh shit So I never got in a car I got to another police station charged

brought back and then I end up coming out after I've done the three years which was 18 months yeah so were you guys did she wait for you? She waited a lot she waited a lot

yeah she did wait for me initially and I was in Penton of him when she visited me every single day didn't miss a visit she was calm in it then after I don't know after about nine and ten months she's cheated in it yeah

you know because I heard that she cheated and she come and see me and she's crying I've done my best I'm making so much money I'm in New York I'm Ed and I respect it she was honest

you get in cool by now I've got another thing so I'm not really watching that yeah not in their moping and then I got moved from

Penterville where she'd done the crying to Brixton and I met a woman there called Linda who was a macro work She worked in the prison. 10-10.

Own clothes. Someone's just told me about her in Brixton. He said, bro, this girl is fire. No, so in Penterville, someone's told me about her. She was in Brixton. Got transferred there. And as soon as I got there, I had a fight with this guy called Junior Avi.

We had a couple fights. This guy is very handy with his hands. And it's an on-site thing, isn't it? Like I'm there five, ten minutes, talking to a few people. He might have been at gym or whatever. He's come back. I've seen him. It's on.

We're just going for it. Got stopped. No one won. But they moved me to another wing. When I came out in the afternoon, guess who's office in the port cabins right in front of my. The lady. Fraud. And yeah, we got super tight.

Were you having sex with her while you were in there? while you were in there? Yeah, yeah, we were super tight. Awesome. She'd bring in what needs to be brought. And, yeah, it was a calm time. Yeah, she was bringing in what for you? Cigarettes or?

Everything that we needed, man. Balloons? No, there's no balloons that don't. What would she bring you in? Just weed and stuff like that. Yeah, well, it comes in a balloon usually. But, okay, were you getting weed off selling it or just smoking it? You might sell a little bit, but those times, really,

don't want to sell any. You just give who you're giving that. demand them your inner circle and yeah, just smoke it. So that made the time go by. Yes. Black guys love smoking weed in prison. My black friends in prison,

they were getting high like three times a day. Like it was college. I'm like, let me in on some fun. I want to have some fun. Yeah, no, no. We smoked a lot, man. I was there for a little while and I got shipped out of there.

What was your plan? because now you're an adult you know you went in on some worship but what is your plan getting out like do you I ain't got a plan yet I've got moved from Brickston I've gone to high eye point

she's left her job by the way she's not leaving her job and to come and then she's visiting me whatever and then my pal who actually told me about her I find that he loves her and he's fuming

how could he do this to me kind of vibe someone's told me yeah and I was kind of like I didn't know that He loved her like that. It's not that deep. Our friendships, that could... And yes, that all went left.

But then when I came home, my plan at that point was... What's my plan? My plan was as to take over the streets. Okay. Now it's the gunman area. That's the gunman area. Okay. Tell me about the gun.

So now we're what's 1996 when you get out? We're now at 97. We're now at 97. I think we're about to 897 January. We left the road, the computer chip error. went away 95. I'm a right-at man who got, what did he get?

He got 80 months. No, I got, no, so I got three, he got two. So he was on before me. And he come to see me, remember I've left it, money's not a thing for us. So he's come to see me, I'm like, he's like, at about three months left.

So all I want is two machines, that's guns and a vest. That's all I want. Let's have that for me. with nothing else. He's like, yeah, I've got you. He comes to see me about a month before I come on. So you got that.

He's like, I've got that. So two machines, yeah, and a vest called calm. What kind of machine guns? No, there wasn't machine. It was like, and guns, but that's what we call the machines. Okay, call them machines. Gotcha. I'm like, yo, I'm like, yo, when I come on, I'm like, got that.

He's talking to this girl's ass. He's going on for two days. There's no one up there. Yeah, he's fucking about it. But why we end up falling out is the day I came out, I've obviously gone to his house. This is my close pal. They've gone to his house.

I had my first dinner there. And he's giving me the keys to this new rental. And I've got in a car with a couple other guys and we've gone somewhere. And on the way back, and there's a parcel in the car. On the way back, please chase. a story short. The car, the plates have been changing, the plates have been changed. And it's just total fuckery. I've just come home. Can you give me a car and you've changed the plates? So we end up falling out over that. But you got away? You didn't get... I got arrested, but I didn't have

nothing. So I wasn't on nothing. So I got let out. But I'm still checking you, you're a dickhead. What have you done? Where's the guns? And you even got the guns. Okay. So yeah. So what happens though? How do you, what, what's, now you're in the gunman era. What does that mean, first of all, for Britain? That means guns are all over the place on the streets? It means it's gunman era and we've gone into the drug game at that point. And yeah, I'm just stepping in. And yeah, at that point, I'll shoot you anyway. I don't care where you are. Let's get into it. So let's get into it because, you know, I love drugs. I don't like that gangster ship, but I love drugs.

So, yeah, so I come home 90, I come home 97, and I'm now a stick-up kid. I'm robbing all drug dealers. At first, I'm just, you know, we're doing whatever, whatever, whatever. Then I'm robbing them and then passing it onto my workers for them to sell it. So I don't care who you are. You got it. If you're slipping, you're going in the boot.

It's that season. And I'm very good at finding motherfuckers too. Right. So I'm feared because I'm going for the top guys. isn't it? Right. And there's only like maybe three or four sets that are going for any drug dealers.

Yeah. Like you're moving boxes, you're a target, that kind of vibe. Mm-hmm. So it's that error. So you're taking whole birds off of people? Yeah, normal, normal.

Really? Yeah. Then what happens is there's a team from East London who was more soberly or was, they was the most powerful black family on the road. Yeah? drug family.

They was called The Love of Money, L-O-M. Okay, that's who Fox, that's where Fox came from, that camp. Okay, East London. They're dealing with straight boxes. They get all of their food

direct from the Adams. Who are the Adams? Adams are the A-Team. They're the most powerful. It must be even today. Most powerful, drug, crime, family Britain's ever seen. Black guys?

White guys. White guys. Based out of where? East London. No, sorry, North London. How are they still operating? I don't. I don't think they're operating like that anymore.

Everything's like to change, isn't it? But these guys are, they're they're multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi millionaires. They're like the importers. They bring it straight off of the ship. At that point, they was big. I'm not going to say what they were doing and what they want to do. I won't with them. Do you get it?

But I know my team, that's what we was getting our food from. But if you Google them after this, you know, in UK history, it's mostly the Adams, then the crazy. Okay. Wow. So what about, and then we'll continue, what about the Jamaican connection? Because there is this such a diaspora. Most black people in Britain have roots in Jamaica. So obviously there's a robust drug traffic. I'm at the heart of it all. And I'm going to speak about my stepfather again, Vincent, he was born in Jamaica, but he had a thing with Yardis. He didn't like them. Okay. So he was always in war with them. And I remember in 19, I don't know what the year was. it might have been 85. I remember there was one guy called Rankin Dreddy. It was one of the most notorious Jamaican yardists.

And he had a tune called A Fati, Boom, Boom. Yeah. That guy. That guy. I've heard of that song. Right. And he, yeah, that guy, he was a Rankin Dreddy's name. He's notorious gangster.

And he got into some issues with some Brixton guys because Brixton, that was like the capital of badness. So the most serious Jamaicans, majority, then will come to Brixton. That's where it was all happening. That's what the culture was. And he was bullying some guy, I believe. And then he got into an issue.

My stepdad got involved. And he's come with a baseball bat and licked off like three heads. Boom, boom, boom. Because he was savage. Yeah. But then Jimmy Bish is, I mean, not Jimmy Bish. What's his name?

Rankin Dredge got under the knife. and got under the basal back gave him three or four stabs might have been more I remember he's just hitting off all of them and he died about five times on the spot but survived

okay that's what a Jamaican would say that's what they know he died yeah but he's going all out I mean for example Caperton was here in 92

at the podium a man gets killed the guy called Mark they need me stepfather for it he beats that Beanie man comes over He does another conference That's a concert

At Stratford Rex A man gets shot dead in there They're blaming my stepdad He goes to the police station The following day With the same clothes that he had on that night Gives it to them as me clothes He gets reminded

Goes to call After a year They're saying He gave the order For the guy who shot the guy at Strapwood Rex and I know this bit from the barrister, the QC

who actually defended him because he defended me at a later stage. He wouldn't come upstairs my stepdad, he stayed downstairs during the old trial until it was time to give evidence

he's come upstairs he sat in the dock he's looked at his cold friend and said, yo, stand up me tell you if I kill anybody no, sit on and left the court.

But he generally got off the case. I swear to you, by God, he got off the case, which it didn't make no sense because that shows you're controlling this guy, doesn't it? Stand up. Me, tell him for sure. Sid off. That's what he generally done. So your stepdad was kind of a Yardy.

Yeah, but he used to be for them. Right. He wasn't a first generation. He talked like them. Right, okay. So Yardis are first generation Jamaicans, but your dad is dealing with them. Your dad was a gangster. Step dad was a gangster. He was a bricked to the number one.

one. Okay. What do you think the key back in the 90s, the gunman era, to coming up in the game, obviously you were robin drug dealers. That's a way to get in. That's a way to jump the line. But like, for example, the key to get ahead as a Coke dealer in America is to have a direct connection with the Mexicans who are bringing it over. What is the key in your opinion for like a black guy in Brixton? Is it a Jamaican connect or is it a connect like these white families, that are getting it off the ship. Yeah. What's the best lick, the best price?

You want, you want, you want, you want, you want, you want your own link, don't you? That's got to be key. You want your own links to your pay, you're getting it for the lowest price, whether that's, you're getting it from the Colombians, whether you're getting it from the Turks, or whether you're getting it from the white family. It doesn't really matter. I think for a- Who had the best price, though?

I think for someone coming up, again, at that period, I'm still. not there. Yeah. I'm elsewhere. We'll get to that in a minute. But, so I would personally think, it just depends what link you want,

whether it's the dark, whether it's the white, and who you can trust. So some people will do with the Italians. Some might have a brilliant lick and it's coming from Colombia. Do you get it? So if you fast forward to 2001,

I had friends who were bringing it from Pakistan. They used to drive it from Pakistan to, this is when I switched into that mode, I ended up staying in the south of France for nine months because of this link. But we ain't got there yet. But they was driving it from Pakistan, yeah, to Russia. Yeah? And from Russia, it can go anywhere in Europe. But what it is, is he's got 30 trucking firms. He's got 40 trucking firms. He's got 20 trucking firms. He's got 20 trucking firms. So he's putting 100 in that one, 200 kilos there, 50.

20 do-da-da-da-da-da-da and then they tell the customs what eight they can take you know that boom boom boom boom boom and then that one's got 10,000 kilos that goes through so that was and that's I ended up staying in the south of France for eight months wow and that's Pakistan that's brown that's heroin right yeah that was that that was and at that point I'm dealing with some guys from Senegal of Senegalese guys who were moving food um and I was able to basically give them for a cheaper price. And so I ended up staying, well, I went from Paris and I moved to,

to the south of France, where I was in a place called Jula Paz, Jolipins, which is between Nice and Cans. And I'm staying out there for months, but we're not there yet. So it sounds like there is no monopoly on the Coke trade in Britain, because it is an island.

So all these different groups are trying to get it in whichever way they can, whether that's a Jamaican woman, swallowing a kilo, getting on a plane, or, you know, your friends sending trucks over from mainland Europe, whatever. It's not like America where there's really 90% of the import,

the import is coming across the Mexican border. So like they pretty much have the game in a smash. It sounds like here it's just wide open. At that point, maybe I don't know, but I do know that, you know, they call them trolleys. I know at one point a trolley could be coming in and it's got 200 boxes on there. and 30 might be going to him, 40 might be going to him, 80 might be going to him, 30 might be going to him. Yeah.

It just gets distributed. You don't really go to one person. Do you get it? That's what usually goes down. It just depends. What was a good price on a kilo of Coke back in 97, 98? Fucking hell. 97, 98?

Yeah. I'll be guessing, but 97, 98. How old was I 97? 97. But surely you must have known the price. You were taking it off of people. 97 would have been like 35, 40 boxes. Wow.

87, 97, yeah, 35, 40 bucks. And that's a wholesale. Oh, shit. So that's a lot of money. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you're really doing some grimy shit. You're a stick up kid.

You're a wolf. So you're taking it off of people. You're giving it to your little youngans. You're just selling it, whatever. Okay. So, and then how long do you keep robbing people? before you just step back and become like become your own connect. I think late 97 or when I linked up with the East London guys.

At that point, they don't rob. They just sell. Yeah. And yeah, once I linked that team, it was an all different ballgame. Okay. So tell us about these East London boys. They were, they was Colin Brown. I'm going to give him a name check.

RIP, he's not a anymore. He died, got killed by some kids who didn't know he was, random knife crime. But yeah, there was love on money. They was called the Love on Money team, Love Over Money, very organized, very professional. I met them because my name was ringing in the streets and I was planning to rob them, actually.

They had to say they're there. safe house in that over my way in Debtford, New Cross they had these two houses which were safe houses

but I knew about them because they had taken these girls out with my cousins who were female and they had taken them back to the safe houses and the girls told me

where these safe houses were like, bingo because I knew these guys were little did I know they was watching me watching them

and um then And yeah, I decided not to rub them. My cousins were like, just leave them alone in it because they won't give up to their fucking kill you. Just come on. Just cheer for a sec to the...

I was watching them, I'm like... And then one day I went there, and it was raining. It opened the door. And it was Tony Mantana, Colin Brown, Buffett. Open the door. Mac Tense.

I stepped at it's raining. I'm like, yo, peace, peace, I'm like, yo, peace, I'm like, peace. And we've gone in, and I told every man where he lives. Yeah. And this I got into the team, every man. Mm. You live, you live, you live, you live, you live, you live. You live got a tighten up.

It's a new era. This is going on. And, I mean, they know why I'm already. Yeah. Watching me watch them. You can't beat him join them. initially reached out to me initially. And this guy knows where we all live.

He's good. Yeah. Let's recruit him. Let's not fight him. Yeah. Bring him in. Yeah, yeah. I got brought into the team at that point.

Okay. So then what are you doing? You're all just in the game selling dope. No. Everyone's got different, everyone's got different positions. As I remember, one of the first things, Colin explained to, Or to me, nobody puts the hand on nobody. Nobody's higher than nobody.

Everyone plays different roles. He sells all the cars. That's what he does. He's good at that. Sales cars? Yeah, he might. There's car showrooms and stuff in it. These guys are...

They got legitimate businesses. Yeah, they got proper bread in it. He sells all the drugs. That's what he's good at. He might deal with the club. So, yeah, and you love you to do the youth free. You might be licking me. You might be getting everybody down.

But no, everyone plays their part. And that worked. Did you get it? This is a real firm. They was different. The first time I met them, we had to have a pager. And they'll forget. I'm waiting for them.

And then the pager bleeped it said, the bus has arrived. And as I saw that, I looked up, I saw them try pass. And that's when I knew this gang was different. Wow. Their brains, their brain. Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen an English gang like them since then. That's incredible.

Yeah, yeah. That's cartel shit. Yeah, they called me the cars with the car. carbon no brakes. That was his name for me. Colin. So what was your job? What did they give you? What was your function? I was just there. I was a, I was in force.

I had the guns, man. I was the, I had the fear factor. You're such a lovely man. It's hard to imagine you. That was a long time ago. That was before the 17 years, 11 months that I spent in a box. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get it? So how long did you work as an enforcer? And what did you? We're part of the team and we're doing what we're doing. But obviously my side is a bit. Yeah, I'm the I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's a few of us, there's, there was, there was more, there, there was more a team of, the way they was doing their thing at that point, it was like, it was like,

because they add the connect. There was a point they'd have two space cruisers and we're driving and they just roll up on man just throw them boxes. Yeah, yeah, all them two boxes. They just wanted people to move their food.

Right. So they would just give people work on the strength. Yeah, so I think like... And were they dropping off boxes or kilos in the projects or all over? Like, what was there? All over. All over.

All over. That was one thing they did. that they would do. And there was another of, they would also look after everybody was in jail. So we'd go around, we'd go on the rounds to everybody's girlfriend or whoever's going to visit them to drop their money,

their parcels. He done things properly, this guy, to get it. Love over money. Right. That's when they made a team. So you're really,

you're doing everything that needed to be done, right? Going to pay off of somebody's girl whose man is in prison. With that, I would just be in the vehicle. Yeah. But that,

that was a regular. thing every week. Right. So your security, it sounds like you're mostly security because at that high level you don't usually have to commit a lot of violence.

No, yeah, I'm there, I'm the guy who just shoot you anywhere at that point. Yeah. And there's a few other guys in the team like that who would just, that's our jobs, but we're not going to talk about that. Our job is, we're in, plus we're at war.

It's at that point. Then we're in a full war with Tottenham at that point. Who's Tottenham? Tottenham and Stonebridge. Yeah? So basically from Tottenham, you got a guy called Mark Lambie who is one of the most notorious gangsters

as the country has ever seen, they say. And we end up in war with him and his boss who got killed, RIP. And yeah, I remember going over to, just to show you what is, this is 1997. I've gone over to Stonebridge. I shouldn't be over there. What part of the city is that?

That's West London. Okay. You guys are East boys, East East East. Yeah, we're in East. I'm from South, but I'm with the East team. And I shouldn't have been over there because their boss got dropped the day before. But it wasn't mean enough to do with me,

so why wouldn't I be over there? However, because of my affiliation, I shouldn't have been there. Does that make sense? So I'm over there and I've gone to see this girl with Lisa. Beautiful girl. Shouldn't have been there.

But I haven't got no gun. The only guns are the Mac Tens. Okay? And Colin was only two. And two is like, yo, these two guns are for the safe arse. It's for everybody.

No one, none of us can't be running. It's to protect that. I went over there anyway. So, I've gone to this arse and gone upstairs in the lift, gone inside, and there's a red flag straight away.

There's a girl there, another girl. This other girl, her boyfriend, is her up, someone I don't deal with. And she's proceeding to ask me about the red BMW with the cream lever interior that I've never bought to West London in my life. Yeah?

And then she's talking about this car. It was following this guy. And we got shot there, the boss, which is total rubbish, because it had never been there over there. But I'm hearing enough to know, I shouldn't be here. She was talking a lot of.

Did you get it? And if she asked me for a spliff, I didn't have the weed, it was in the car. Generally, I had the weed in the car. And she kept trying to send me upstairs to get weed. Anyway, I took my girl out of the room and back into the bedroom. I said, what the fuck she doing it? She's got, I don't know, she's turned up today.

D-da-da-da-da-da. I ain't seen her for a few years. I called, I'm off. As I came out of the front room, I've called her like that with the phone. I've locked ties and she's putting the phone down. The other girl, yeah? Red flag number 25, I think, by that point.

She's like, go get the weed, man, go get the weed. I said, nah, nah, nah, no, no, no, what you doing? Then I was just calling the cab. I'm paranoid, isn't it? Yeah, even more, you're from, I'm paranoid now. Yeah, yeah, super paranoid then. Are you phoning? And then we're coming down.

I told her, listen, I ain't going to get no weed from up. They've got weed in the car. Her cab's come, let's go. So we've gone down in the lift. come outside look that way the cab's there I've gone that way

to my car open that I was driving an MR2 there in the night rider ones with the lid open up the passenger side gone in I've dropped the keys

down by the arm and brake I've gone to touch the keys and they've gone further down I'm moving nervous in it something's telling me something's telling me

sutt up who's jumped who's come through Mark Lambie Malik they've come through they've looked right, they haven't looked left, they've looked right at the car, the cab first.

That split second, I'm like, fuck, if I had a gun, they'd be dead. That split second, bam, you're gone. They've looked my way. I said, what, Guam family? We're looking for you, you know? Is that I've been looking for you, blood? His pal said,

burn him! That means kill him. He goes, bun him. So he's popped off the machine. Oh. Through the passenger side at you this way? There's bare cars there in a row. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's all cars in a row.

Yeah. I'm here. Got the door open. Peace stop. Come back out. Book, door shut again. I'm there. I'm there.

Seen nymphs. I'm by the cars. Yeah? So he's letting off. He's a amateur. Yeah? He fluffed his lines. He's got the gun on full auto.

So from his touch the trigger, they've all come out. Yes, I've run. I'm in the corner, but it's bare blood. At the time, I didn't know. I thought I got shot. in my fingers.

But he ain't got no bullets left. I don't know this. I'm saying, Pusio, you're dead now. You're dead now, pussy, y'all. I've gone, but I haven't got nothing. He's just back. I've cut, gone.

So I'm running along the Stone Ridge, notorious Storm Ridge Park State. He's following me. I'm like, Dickhead, keep running. Keep running. You're done. Keep running. So he's looked over my shoulder.

He's looked over his shoulder. His two friends haven't run with him. He's on his ones. I'm like, Dickhead, you're one-up. Keep coming. You're dead tonight. Anyway, he's turned around and I'm bolted. Going about his business because it's one-up. He ain't got no bullets.

Right. The gentleman is running and he knows he's about to get done in. Yeah? Because his friends ain't there. He's gone where he's gone. I've carried on running. I swear for another minute. I've jumped over a random wall.

I'm in the garden. Boom. I've kicked off the back door. I'm in someone's kitchen. It's a black guy. And black guy's about maybe 55, 60, the sun's like 30. I know the son.

I met the son about two days ago for the first time ever with the same guy who's just chasing me. You're lying. Bible. The same guy was chasing me. The roads know this. This guy, everyone's on the road. Everyone ain't dead and no one can't come for.

Boom. He's that, walk on. I'm saying, yeah, they east man, them try to get us, blood. Wow. He's like, yeah, said, yeah. So we're there, there, there. We're talking. Boom, there's bare blood.

The dad's, where are you going? Dad's trying to go upstairs. The son's took the phone. What are you doing? What are you doing? After about five minutes of me, they're like, what's going on there? Boom, they're like, call the ambulance. Ambulance.

I said, listen, there's about 20 men dead outside. 15 wounded gunmen running everywhere That's what you got to do to get the AMBO out right Yeah Yeah

The ambulance woman's like What? There's about 20 man dead There's blood Running all over The estate Yeah

Boom Give it 10 minutes mate I'm there still With these guys And they grab me It's like Yeah

You got a goal mate So I'm dictating Too much Why are you going Where are you going That's this for Who you phoning? Why is...

Yeah, excuse me? This is my house. Struggle, threw me out. Bare blue lights. I was the only time in my life, I've been so glad to see police. I don't see bare blue lights. I feel like super, man.

I survived. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got shot where. It's all cool. She's on the fingers. All's crazy. So what happened? I said, three guys tried to rob me.

Gave three fake names. Did la. Try to they rob me. Talk me watch. Boom, boom, boom. It's all cool. Stand down. Everyone can go home.

And told the ambulance, where are there? They said the ambulance was around the corner, gone around, they got my car sectioned off, so I can't take my car. Did they shoot the windows out of the car? Or they just hit the side of it? There's the side of it. Okay.

They had about four oars in it. Yeah, about four or five bullet holes in it. So then the girls come downstairs. She's there, isn't she? Right. I'm like, you little bitch. That bitch you set you up. Yeah, the one.

But she's like, no, night, won't me. Not to do me. I didn't know nothing. Sure. Yeah. I'm saying, okay, I'm saying, all right, cool, cool. Anyway, she's convincing me it's not her, in it. I want to still pick this little bitch's brains, isn't it?

So she's coming in the, she's coming the, because I want to know, you've got to remind me, who is this girl? What do you know? I want to know everything I can get out of this girl. Do you get it? Because I know the girl that comes to her out. She definitely lined me up.

Do you get me? So I'm going to the hospital. By the time I got to the hospital, I swear he was at the hospital, like maybe 10 minutes. By I got there, 10 minutes, they knew I was. this came in said, yeah, Carlon, we know who you are. And they spoke to out and left me for dead. No formal conversation.

Nothing. He's coming and said, yeah, Carl's. Yeah, we know where you are. We know you're going to copy away. We know where you are. And that was it. They was gone and I was there. And then I, obviously, I didn't want no one to come and get me.

So I left straight away. And yeah, that was it. I was missing. But that's our, and then our war started with, on with that fella there. So how long did that war last? Between the east side, your crew and those two other friends? There was many.

It went on for a while. When I was out, like, when I was out, like, where we're talking now, 2K21, the war is going on. But you know, it is, it's a difficult one because, it's a complicated one because you've got the older, Hackney guys, that's love of money, they're at beef with the older Tottenham guys, which is the Tockney guys slash the West guys.

However, the older Hackney guys are always also beefing the younger Hackney guys who are also beefing and the younger Atkney guys are beefing the younger Tottenham guys. So it was mad whereas the Toctom guys are all united. Older and younger, they're fighting Hackney. Whereas the old. I mean, the Hattie guys, they're fighting each other older and younger

and fighting over there. So it was kind of complicated. Sure. Does that make sense? So what about your firm, your family? Like, did you guys stay together or how did, what happened? Yeah, we stayed together. Did you guys drop bodies?

Not you, I'm not asking you personally, but did people get killed back and forth? Did you lose anybody from your side? Yeah, we was on a little run for a little while, and it gets evened up. I think one of the first... People to drop, I think Kenny got shot. That was a guy called Kenny Roe.

He got shot. He was Fox's best friend. Fox was in jail when he actually joined the team. And he had a kind of relationship with Lambie. And he saw Lambie. And they was perfectly cool. And then he saw Lambie again about four, six weeks later, when Lambie's boss had come home, Souty.

and he tried to speak to him again he's like, are you talking to Dickhead? So Kenny's like, huh? Thinking moves. And they fell out anyway. Cut the story short. Kenny's just like, you're washed up because Kenny had money.

He had a lot of money. He used to end with the drugs for love of money. Whereas they didn't have any money. Do you get it? Anyway, they shot Kenny. He got a piss bag. Yeah? Oof.

Yeah, they shot Kenny for no reason. And that kind of started. war. So it doesn't sound, sorry to interrupt, it doesn't sound like this war, because these are all rich guys. These are all big time drug crews. It doesn't sound like they're going to war over turf or drug profits. It sounds like it's all personal grudges.

Am I right about that? No, there's different stuff going on up with this particular guys. They got money. The lover money got their money up by doing robberies first. They used to rob vans and stuff like that. So did you, though. They're cool, but they were doing like the big, big vans. Then they've gone on to the Kilo world.

But they've still got their guys who are doing what they're doing on the road and whatever. This is about respect and this is about basically standing up for themselves because they didn't really want to war with nobody because they've got money. But they broke over the other side. And because his gangster friend came home, he basically wanted to see, you know, some people want to see how far they can push it.

Yeah. You know, and he ended up getting shot and then give it, I don't know, maybe six weeks, two months, don't quote me on that, they went back over to West London and they got the drop on them and they went to go in,

we had to pull the door. So they pushed it, that's alerted them and Mark it's able to run through the back and get through some window and someone else was shot who the person who is with I believe that guy wasn't killed

he ended up in a wheelchair so it's a mixture of things I mean certainly like drug robberies as you say like no no robberies are gone this is this is now love of money that's selling kilos of food

no of course but I think like I'm just trying to figure out why this all starts this all sounds pointless and retarded it makes sense killing somebody in the drug again makes sense with a guy like you who's just stuck up some guy for his food and he comes back

and tries to kill you and that causes two crews. That makes sense to me, right? I think those guys of that beef is something that they didn't want, but it's happened because basically niggers with this being ignorant. Right. Because that's my, I mean, that's Kenny. That's Lambie. They spoke six weeks ago. Their baby mothers are good best friends. Right. They're from different gangs. They don't, but there's no issue. How you doing? Cool. Do da,

all right, cool. Boom. Fast forward six weeks later Lambie's boss has come on who's a hot head. So Kenny's seen Lambie at a wave. Why, Juan? You mean?

You're talking to. Kenny's thinking, who's this broke, dickhead talking to? I was talking to six weeks ago. What's this? His boss, who doesn't know him,

doesn't know nothing. It's just shot because that's what he's a hot head, just shot him. So they've got no choice but to get involved in this one night. And that's how,

that particular war started, whereas there's a lot of different little things that took place. But what else can they do? Their guy's being shot. So he went back to obviously he wants to kill them. And then it just went back and fall from there. Yeah, it's just kind of like ignorant, criminal-minded behavior that one small little thing, as you said. Yeah, with that particular incident, 100%. Did these robberies you used to do before you got down with love over money,

love over money, did those ever come back on you? Did, because you were known as this like gangster and when you take somebody's food, you're taking literal food out of their mouth. Did that, did you ever have a target on you?

I believe I did at that time. I don't know, people used to say I was going to die tomorrow. And I used to say, I used to wake up every morning. And I used to say, well, they said, today's my last day. So as today is my last day,

I'm going to be the baddest motherfucker God's ever seen today. And that's what I should tell myself. Yeah, that was your motivation. But they said today's my last day, I'm going to die. Did you enjoy living life like that? I didn't care. When I said, I didn't care, I didn't rate them.

I didn't think they had the brain power to come close, even tie my lace. I just didn't rate them. I grew with all of them, violated the most of them. So I wasn't really buying it. I don't think you guys already. That's what I believe. Yeah.

And yeah, that was my thing. I mean, people who say, they're saying he's going to die because it was kind of weird. Usually, you know, you get guys, they come up in the game, they rain, they get shot or they get stabbed or someone beats them up or there's some. But for me, you had 10 years, no else, all Ws. And it just becomes a myth, doesn't it? It just becomes a myth I mean, you ain't got none You can walk around

You can speak to 15 Gansas And he's like, yeah, he's like, I can't that Then ask him, just tell me one person Dead or alive, just one person We met in a rave or at West Sen or they chased him or He had to run off, just give me one They won't have to give you one

That would happen too often Yeah So with that little myth and we're at the highest level batting. It's just become a madness. Like, who is this guy? Like, what the fuck? You're untouchable.

You're kind of untouchable. When I told my stories now, the youngsters, they're online, they call me John Wick. Yeah. Yeah. They generally do. Like, how come you got so much stories,

but no one ain't got no stories for you? Like, what the fuck? Who is this guy? Is he John Wick? And that's, it's like to piss take calling me John Wick. But it's not that. We're all bleed. will.

Yeah. But there's some guys are a bit dumber than others. So you think you just move smarter and that's, and that's why you were able

to avoid getting killed. And I used to get beaten a lot. By who? My mother. Bitten. Tied to a chair, whipped, beaten.

Jesus. Full of the trivial things. Mm. She could tell me to go and get her a glass of Coke. You're ice. Oh,

that's this. I get the Coke at the fridge. Forget to put that I said, bring it back. By the time I take two steps, that's been launched at me. So what it taught me is to read body language.

Yeah? React very quick. She ain't giving me no warnings. It's, you know, like that, which allowed me when I entered the streets to switch so much quicker than you. A guy, he wants to air, what do you mean?

Are you fucking before he does something? I don't want to hear it. I just want to see the body language. Whereas most guys are waiting for some form of dialogue or a look or something. I'm already there. You're already reacting. Yeah, I'm already there. That's what kept me alive.

That was the key thing. Like preemptive. You already got to join out. Yeah, yeah. I'm just straight from the back. So you probably didn't like when your mom was abusing you like that, but it really kept you alive later in the streets. 100%.

Did you forgive your mother for treating you like that? I did. I did forgive her because as I said, it was something that I believe kept me alive in the streets when dealing with all these different personalities and characters and emotions and gangsters. So these wars are going on. How do you eventually get out of that? because you end up going to, before you caught your big bid, your big stretch, you end up, as you were saying, going over to France

and you're dealing with some real traffickers at this point. Explain how all that came about. How did you get out of the gangster shit and get up into the, you know, the real narcotics business? This girl called Riem, my name was actually. God, there's a through line here. There's always a girl with you. You got nice eyes.

No home. Yo, yo, yo, why for that? But no, final joke aside is this girl called Riem. And she's from Sudan. And I'm very spontaneous since I woke up. I remember my mom had my daughter. I woke up one morning and said, listen, we're going, we're going to go Paris.

I went to take my daughter there. So I promised her, isn't it? So it's like, I called meet you at Wooloo, whatever, I did, do that. And I had this girl, so I took this girl shopping. And then we went, met them, and we took the Euro stuff. Me, the girl, my mom, my daughter. I never forget, my mum looked at the girls' clothes. And she said, you bought them for her in it.

She just knew, you understand? Because it was top level, you know, like that. She just knew. And then we got there, we got to Paris. And then they went into the old town, my mum and the girl and me and my daughter went to go get some cigarettes from my mum and try to find some weed. Wasn't successful. Came right half hour later. Reception told me what room they're in, went up, what room they're in, went upstairs.

And there was a guy in there, two guys in the room. My mom's smoking a spliff of ash. So I've looked at the guys, looked at my mom. She's like, yeah, I saw them down in the lobby. I knew they knew what time it was. You can understand. But, all, cool. They was from Senegal.

Yeah, one spoke English, one didn't. And they're like, listen, you've got to come out of us tonight. We're going to Magnum. That's the spot. I don't know if it's still there, but the big spot in Magnum at that time. I mean, in Paris was called Magnum. It goes, that's the spot. All the footballers are there.

I said, all right, let's go. So we went out that night, me, a girl, and obviously those guys and their team. mom was obviously with my kid whatever went out to this club and we're a raving part in it's a vibe

and there was this guy there called L.O. Aftchuf. Do you remember him? Mm-mm. Did you follow football? No. He didn't. No, come on. I'm American, bro. Get out of here with that shit. You can't go to American football. I love watching a zero-zero game. Oh my God.

But anyway, there's this guy called L.O. Afchuf. He was like the Selling Gilles David Beckham. He had just signed from I still remember that RC lens to it's signed from RC Lens to Liverpool

which is my team and we're part in I remember he knocked over my drink that was cool we replaced it but the girl he's with yeah Aisha Aisha Aisha

Pretty girl That's different Mindings and 9 and a half Is things on 11 Yeah Remember I ain't I'm saying to my, I'm saying to this lady, listen, yeah, get her a number. I understand.

Yeah. They're good links, good people. Yeah. We need her number, yeah? Sure. Right. It's all just business, babe. I swear.

Cool. So anyway, we had a good night that night, parted. And then two days later, after we done the Euro Disney thing with my daughter, da, do they're all going back. I've got the girl's number off of. They're all gone. I've called the girl. I'm like, let's do lunch. She's like, I don't live in Paris, darling.

I just flew there for the, I live in the South of France. So what? What's going on there? She's like, palm trees. I'm like, I didn't know South of France's got palm trees. She's going, yeah, yeah. I said, I'll be there in like three hours. She's like, sure.

Three hours later, I'm in the South of France. I understand. Yeah? And they come, they come. It was her and her sister, she had a little baby. Her baby was about two years old, three years old. And we went out for a meal, whatever. And then I bought it into an hotel.

They come and saw me the next morning. And we went and got some food. Then we went into our house. And then underground car park. Colts, the lift, coats. Got up to the front door, Colts. And I never forget, it was in my head. Okay, that's what Jay-Z was talking about.

And he said, I give you the Colts to the crib. And we've gone into the house, yeah. And never forget, we're sitting, we're standing on the balcony. is one big swimming pool. But this side of the house, I mean, this side is where you rent apartments. That side is the hotel section.

Yeah, where you can rent for the week over there. It's like maybe yearly or monthly or whatever it is. You get it. So I said, what do you do? Right. I'm thinking you've got a rooney on, nice car, codes to get in. We're Banga-Ole-Ole-Ole-Sson.

Not a lot of people know about being old, Bangor Olson. Yeah, you know, front of me, what do you do? I don't do nothing She goes my baby father father my child he's the captain of the French National Basketball team

That was my guy We moved from Senegal together We went to Germany And I left him Come here She was out of everything But I had no life I could have no friends

I couldn't have nothing So I gave it all up Left him So he pays for this He pays what he needs to pay for So that's why you see me living like this I was like, okay, that makes sense. So I stayed out there for, that was like maybe we're still in like month one,

month two. Then I went to Milan to go shopping. So I sent for my cousin, Therese. Do you have money? So like this whole time as you're working for the firm as the muscle. No, no, no, no, no, I'm not working for the firm. We're part of the team. I've got my own shit going on.

But what are you doing for money, though? You're trafficking. Yeah, I'm doing it. Yeah, yeah, I've got the link out there. Remember these guys out there. Okay. They're from Senegal, but they're doing their things. So what they're paying, what they're paying for, say, Nainba.

I could beat that, say, maybe $12,500 or whatever. I can't remember now the details. So that's how I was earning money. I end up staying over there by. Well, can you explain that in American English? What do you mean by that? So basically, my guy, my connect is in Pakistan, okay? Okay, so you're moving brown.

You're moving hair on. Yeah, cool. Okay. I got a connect. I met that guy in general. actually. Okay. Connect.

Okay. He was an Asian guy and someone wanted to beat the fuck out of him. He was my cellmate because he had a Rolex on. And I wouldn't let it happen. And I kept him safe. And that's how I met him. Okay. At this point, when you meet the Senegalese girl in the south of France,

how were you getting money? At that point, my mind's moving fast on how we can earn some money. But I'm still not on it yet. Yeah? I then end up going to Milan with my cousin, Torres. We actually go on a train where you could actually There was beds on the train. It's the first time I experienced that.

Just to go shopping, that one road where all the shops are. It was only when I came back that I started to do things with the Senegalese guys and starting to make some money with them. Because by now I'm saying, well, I'm telling myself, I'm not even going back to England ever. Right. I'm going to stay over there. I like the south of France. It's peaceful.

I've got a nice connect. That's what I'm telling myself. Okay. So you're tell us about the Brown. How does it get in from Pakistan? from your guy. Basically, they've got loads of different trucking firms. Yeah.

Okay? So I don't know who owns what, but they say my guy, he's got 30 trucking firms. This guy's got 20, 10, 15, whatever. I didn't know this to afterwards, by the way. But what they was doing, they would load it up with, I don't know, 100 kilos, 200 kilos, 50 kilos, whatever it is, yeah. And what I didn't know was basically they was, no, so when customs were stopping their vans or their trucks and opening shit up, they've got to pay for everything.

So if they open up like, let's say there's like 50,000 bags of flour and they open up all of them and don't find old drugs. My understanding what I was told then, they got to pay for every fucking thing that they open. You've got to reimburse them. They got to reimburse them, isn't it?

They don't really like opening shit this, they know what's going on. So these guys were playing smart. If they've got 25 trucks going out that day, they would tip off the customer, tip of customs that truck five, registration form, it's got the work in it, yeah.

And they've stopped them, get those little 20 kilos, 5 kilos, whatever it is and let the rest come through. That's how they was getting their shit. Smart. Okay? So from there, my guy, who I'm dealing with, my connect, he's already explained to me that if I take it in France, it's

going to be much cheaper than taking it in Europe. Okay, so I've already got the rates, yeah? And it didn't make sense for me to take it in England. I'm not in England. But because the Senegalese used, because they were active anyway, whatever, they say they were selling their nine bars for at that point, I don't know, four, three, four, seven, whatever.

I could have given it to them for something like a grand cheaper or maybe even less. So they was my first initial customers. And then they branched up and moved up. So I instead of buying one, they started buying two, buying three, buying four, whatever. That was it. So I never ever came out of that circle, those two guys, the two brothers. So now this is beautiful. All you got to do is give it to them and they do the rest.

And that's what I ended up staying in the south of France for maybe eight months I was out there until my friend got out. Okay. So by the way, how does heroin get from Pakistan to France? I don't know. It's not. It's not land the whole time. It doesn't go on water. Well, not that I can remember.

That had nothing to do with me personally. But they used to drive it, my understanding, from. from Pakistan, drive it to Russia. I didn't even know you could drive from Pakistan to Russia. Well, I still remember the route now because he explained to me even then. But yeah, it was drive from Pakistan to Russia and from Russia, wherever you want it. That's fucking crazy.

It's different prices. So you were getting a kilo for how much and then giving it to your Senegalese for how much? Yeah. How much were you flipping a like a purple? Wow. That's a different game, that brown shit. You don't like it? I mean, I don't like any of it or dislike it.

I mean, it's just in America, it's a very, it's a very dangerous thing to sell heroin. You get a lot more time than even the cocaine. Well, crack, maybe not. But heroin's just a, it doesn't really exist in America anymore. So I find it fascinating. It's mostly synthetics, fentanyl and shit like that. And it's lower quality stuff because it comes from Mexico. So it's, it's gummy, meaning it's unrefined.

but you're getting heroin from Afghanistan, which is a lot more higher potency. And you never had to cut it up or anything. You just got it and dished it off? Yeah, didn't touch it. Wow. So did you make a lot of money? You made money, yeah.

They made money. So then what happened? I stayed out there for about seven, eight months. Just go back and forth to Paris to do, I'm not Paris, Milan to do some shopping. Then my friend, my friend, When Fox, the one who died, he was in jail at the time. He, um, he ran his co-defendant, Skelly.

It's all, it's in public record. Yeah, yeah. The police tried to arrest them. They had a baby Uzi on them and another firearm. They've kidnapped the policeman at gunpoint. It's in London? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Kidnap the policeman. Um, in the cops. But they end up getting a nicked anyway. They got nicked, okay? Policemen, guns, nicked. I'm in the South of France.

You think they're never going to get out, right? They get a not guilty. I mean, they took it to trial. They took it to trial and the case gets beaten. But I'm in South of France, and it comes on the radio. London gangster, Robert Powell, was released from... What? How?

It's the right-hand man. Yeah. I'm packing already, yeah? On the way back. So when I see him, what was he we met up? I'm like, how did it? I know, no one ain't going to believe how it happened, but I'll just tell you how it happened.

Because when he came home, he wants 50 grand from his co-defendant. He's just been released. He's telling his co-defendant to sell your Rolex, sell your car. sell your bike. Don't care. I want my 50 grand.

They paid someone. There was two guns. There was a Uzi and there's a handgun. Okay? One of those guns went missing. I'm sure it's the handgun from the evidence. Gone. They're like, we need to test these guns as we're entitled to do.

Bring the Uzi and bring the 9-mill or whatever it is. They're shuffling around. They can't find the gun. That's how they got out, abuse of process. Wow. And to this day, do you know how that gun went missing? Well, I know they paid someone an hundred grand. I'm not going to say who.

Wow. They paid somebody at $100 grand. And the gun went missing. And they came home. His name is Robert Powell. Google it. Gangster. Gangster.

A hundred bags. And he had to pay the... Yeah. Because he didn't have no money. Right. But my man, like, all right, I've got... this. What year was that? 2-1, maybe 2000. I think it might

but not 2,000, but they came home 2-1. Okay. It's 2-1. So what were your plans? Because this is the year that you go away, right? Yeah. So how does this all happen? Because it seems like you're living a good life in the south of France. You don't want to go back to this fucking rainy-ass rock where everybody's getting killed and all your homeboys are going to prison. You got this nice

little heroin racket kicking up. You know, you got a bad Senegalese bitch. queen, sorry, whatever. So why did you come back? Well, my guy has been released. We got war to do. We got bodies to get. He just beat the case.

He's home. That's the right hand man. Like, we, you know, we're number. We do it. We do this. We got guys that we need to catch. So do you see why that's ego driven? Because you don't have guys you need to catch.

You're making money going to Milan and living in the south of France. You're semi-retired. So what happens? I stay over there. And then what happens? They kill my friend. over here or anyone else is connected to the team, the war hasn't stopped. I'm just the most prolific. I'm just the most dangerous. Just because I'm over here, it doesn't mean it's stopped.

East has come out. It's on. We've got people to catch. Do you regret that decision in hindsight? Coming back? Yeah. Do I regret it? I don't live with regrets, yeah? And I know that means I wouldn't have done it 70 years. It's 11 months. Yeah. I don't live with regrets. Yeah. I would have I could rephrase it. Yeah, would you have played it different? 100%. Okay. Do you think maybe you would have stayed over there or come to?

Yeah, I've mostly stayed there and let him come out to me. Okay. And just took time. But you know what it was? It was so now. Right. We need to get these guys now. You know a lot of time to reflect and think about it.

No, we need these guys now. They're, because, you know, sometimes with gangsters, they only understand violence. and you could be the most violent man ever and we're quiet for a year or two they're like yeah he's washed they don't understand until you give it to them again it's just how it is

and we it was that phase I think where we was quiet for a little bit some dummies who should know better in that life yeah so yeah definitely all those ingredients play a part ego I'm disrespected

all frivolous none of them are a justifiable way they. Yeah, you were still pretty young too. You know, you're 28 or something like that. So, you know, it'd be different at your age, at our sagely ages now. It's a lot different. But no, no judgment.

I just... Yeah, we're at war. Does committing murder, that's as ultimately when you come down to it... I'll never commit murder. But then you say you got opposition to go see. What is that, how does that end with anything but somebody getting killed? Well, it can end in a number. a variety of ways.

As I said, there are definitely bodies on both sides, but I definitely haven't killed anybody. But you, aside from that, if you go, if two drug gangs are at war, how does how does it end?

How does it end in any way but people getting killed and the other people going to prison? I mean, as I said, you can do your research, which you can see that people died on each side, but I'm not going to sit in and tell you I've killed no one, because I haven't. But how did that, how did that sit with you knowing that you had to, you had this drug money, you had this chill life, and now you got to go be back in the streets?

Yeah, did you feel. I mean, to come back? Yeah, yeah, did you feel some kind of way about having to go be like grimy again? No, I'd only been over there a few months and my guy was out. And yeah, we wanted to go and find these guys. So I think the question you want to ask me is, did I enjoy looking? for these guys. Yes, I did.

I did enjoy looking for them because I knew I could find them and I knew I was a bit sharper than them. And, you know, when everybody, it's a bit different, you know, he's sitting in a car there and I give you a gun and say, yeah, killing me. Anyone can go on do that because the guy's sitting in the car. But if I put you in fucking, you know,

you're in fucking, I don't know. Bristol, you know, you're in Bristol and I'm in London and we both know it's on and we've got to start from scratch and find each other. It makes it a bit more interesting, doesn't it? It's like detective work. Yes, that detective work. So, yeah.

So how many, what happened? Tell them, take us through from when you came back to the time when you got locked up. I came back and, yeah, every day was the same. It's just shootings every day. It's just war. We was finding that we was looking for these guys. We was in Tottenham. We was on.

Broadmoter Farm. We was looking for the main opposition which at that point was Tottenham guys and in Pacific it would have been Lambie was looking for

one of the youngest up on coming was a guy called Leon Smith who I've got mutual respect with now and yeah we came back

and how are you fun because it's expensive when you're out looking for people, that's less time, that's time being taken away from making money. So, yeah, does your pockets take a hit? Or do you have, do you still have the rackets going? Well, always makes you take a hit. But at the same time, I've moved from,

because remember I've come back from the South of France. I'm now back over here. One of my guys who is still my friend now, he's now legit, by the way. they continue to deal with the plug over there doing what they're doing. And they continued for a long period while I was in jail. Then now he's no longer involved in that. So yeah, I've come back and I'm just doing what we're doing what we're doing over here.

We've got to rebuild over here. It's food straight away. We've got to have food out there. We've got to make money, man. Is it brown or white? Both, both, both, both, both. Love of money dealt with both. But me personally, as I come back, I just want bodies.

I got my own stuff going on. Did you get it? So even though we're one team and my guy wants to set up different, because we didn't have lines. At that point, it was how many areas have you got? Before it used to be workers, love of money was very cocky. It was like, how many workers you got? I've got six workers.

How many workers you got, I got 10? The lover money got really cocky with it. How many areas have you got to get it? It kind of changed again. So, yeah, so we're just out there. It's just war, man. You know, you can find someone, you lick them down, you can't find them, you don't lick them down,

you're out there all day, yeah, you're just waiting for the drop on some people. It just, it just differs. Or sometimes I might give a man a blight. I remember there's this guy called Johnny Ringo, who he was one of the youngest from H-Town, but, and he's a very phenomenal player right now, him, and he's got his little soldier, Mini,

who manages popcorn right now. Popcorn's one of the biggest artists on the planet right now. But I had a relationship with Ringgo. Remember I told you the oldest of acne was warring with the youngest. But there's some of the youngest that I got on with. Ringo was one of them. And they was at war, just to show you how it is. They're at war, my pal.

And I'm not involved. Do you get it? They're talking, whatever they're talking. And the reason why I'm not involved, and of himself and their babies as far as I'm going to send to him do you get

what I'm coming from and I needed some I was in Brixton at the time and I needed a parcel yeah some dark and some light and couple phones and I called my pal

Fox and he said we've hit the mattresses and he's wherever he is and it's long I'll have to wait a couple days I'm like fuck all that got to meet this guy tomorrow we had someone who worked in the library

who was available tomorrow all someone had to do is going to meet him and we're going to get the parcel I can't wait two days, but my pal's talking a load of nonsense. So I called Ringo. So I called Ringo. And I'm like, listen, she needs two ounces, give her five bills, boom, bum, boom, do all of that stuff.

And the next day, the parcel came. And then I asked the guy like, how did he link you? I don't know. And I asked the girl, sorry, I asked the girl, the girl that I sent to meet him. How did it? Because the girl went to meet him, then she took the parcel to the last. library guy. And she said he came on his own with his two, three month year old little baby in the back of a cab. Like, what? Remember, he's that war with my pal. So I called and say,

you trust me like that, bro. He's like, yeah, bro, I know you before then, man, bro. It's like, cool. And that saved his life because it formed a friendship. And fast forward about 18 months, we're all in a safe house in Hackney. This is when I've come back now, the period you're looking for. We're all in a safe house, about six, seven of us. And a girl comes in.

And she goes, guess who's just pulled up in a cab and gone upstairs? Ringo. Yeah. He's got to come back down, ain't he?

That's how he used to drop his food off. Straight bits, yeah? But my thing, I'm saying, no, man, leave him.

Yeah. I'm begging for him. Uh-huh. They always look at me like, I'm crazy. So I'm begging for wringle. So you had honor. You were,

you were kind of a stand-up thief in a way. Like if somebody was solid, it didn't matter what side they were on. Like you would go to bat for him. Listen, that's good. One of the most notorious guys from the other side was a guy called Blue.

Okay, he's in Jamaica at the moment. He got deported. But he was Lambies-Codee on that. But we had a relationship. Yeah? We had a professional relationship in terms of he was cut from the same cloth

I was cut from. In that period, he was more of a robber. Whereas my guy, were more organised and they wanted to kill him but I didn't want him to kill him because he was cut from the same cloth

I used to keep catching him loose bowling slide up on him yo bro why you tighten your game up bro I want to let him kill you bro two non steps come on bro

you as the next kid up that kind of vibe and then I got introduced to him by his youngest um and um or my youngest but his like he's hackney friends and yeah

we was cool from there I even went to his mum's house and this is why my team wants to kill him but fast forward to the old Bailey when I first got arrested for this on my last sentence as I told in the audio book

they put me on a unit which is the most secure prison I don't know if it's Europe but definitely in the UK Bell Marshall's got a prison within a prison did you know that No, I've heard of Belmarsh though Okay, we got Belmarsh And then you've got another prison

Within Belmarsh All the terrorists go in there The cat A's double cat A's You know, like the police helicopter follows you You bomb, if someone to bomb Westminster Tomorrow, they guess where they go On the unit So I'm on there, okay?

Lambie and Blue are in the downstairs But I get on with Blue As I told you And Lambie was a bit pissed off That blues his own man And we speak all day Whereas me and my end you get it?

But Farsword was going to court and I knew they was going to call. They didn't know I was going to call. So I've got two razors in my toothbrush. I've got a cheek top in my my ass cheeks because I know I'm going to get a shot at this motherfucker downstairs today, yeah?

To go to court. They don't know I'm coming to court. I've kept it nice and quiet. I know they're going to call, yeah? And then we get to call. And as I tell, as I say in the audio book, I'm in the toilet. I was to go to the toilet.

Take the cuffs off. When I'm going to go, when I'm going to toilet, I hear voices, familiar voices. It's Mark, Blue, and the next one, C-1. And as I said, I'd shake the rain drops from my pole. Did you get it? But the double razors in the palm of my hand. Steped out the toilet. Blue's the first one to flinch.

He looks up Mark and says, nothing to do with me, my brother. Yeah? C1's baffled thinking, who the fuck's this? I'm a myth, remember I don't see these guys. Who the fuck's this? That blues jumped on the fence. By the says that I made a decision.

Oh, not working doing real damage. Remember, by the way, I've got, I'm like six screws and an assault, there's seven screws with me. They've got about 10 with them. Yeah, this is a suicide mission. Yeah, right? Yeah, so cool. I'm saying, you know what?

Now, cool. There's only one holding cell. Yeah, so they put me in the old themselves. Yeah, they man, have gone up to court. All they got to do is walk up to court, speak to the judge, whatever, and walk back, and it's game on. Not him. He killed my best friend. When I go back down, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do that. Obviously, they come back and said, yo, you can't stay here, bro. He's up there talking a load of crud. Telling, he's riding. Yeah, it wasn't the first time. He done it multiple times on me. So were you prepared to slash him? if he had gone back into the cell with you?

100%. You didn't think about like catching another charge? No, we'll care about that. At that point, he was one, he can hold that. He deserved it? Yeah, yeah. Did he kill partners of yours or people you knew? Not personally, but he was there at one, at one occasion.

I don't understand you. You've grown up so much. Why? Because that's like not a thing, a person who values their own life. A get money person would do that. They would give that to like a guy. What you mean? A get money person wouldn't commit or try to commit another homicide

that would get them caught, especially in Belmarsh where you're not even sentenced yet. But I'm not going to commit an homicide in front of 15 screws on camera. Yeah, but you were going to wait until he got in the cell with you. They probably would have figured it out. Yeah, I'm not going to kill him in the cell. You were just going to touch him up? Yeah, I just open his face, write my name there a couple times or something like that,

put him in the corner on his knees. let him sing a rap song or something, that kind of vibe. I'm not going to, not going to... Okay, yeah, yeah. Still, though, they could give you another 10 years for that, maybe. Well, maybe. Not really.

I don't really think so, because there's no cameras in the cells down there. And one of us would have to snitch, and I don't think he could do that. Even though he's a snitch, I don't think he could do that. Well, he snitched to get out of that whole situation. So, wow, that's fucking... Oh, that makes my palm sweat.

Okay. How did you want to do that? end up there. So tell us about your case. So you're back, basically you're just living life, moving food, getting money, and you're at war. And war becomes normal after a while, right? Like, becomes a normal part of life. So I was already in war, and I'm always in war. Yeah. At that period, it wasn't something that phased me. That makes sense. That's what I mean. It becomes normal. Yeah. And then I made a decision to come back when, A, my pal, he's come back. And then someone ripped me off. I can't go too deep.

got respect victims and stuff like that. But someone ripped me off for, I think it was over 64, 68 bags. I can't remember what it was, but I got ripped. Yeah. And, um. So how did the, how did the case, how did you take the big fall that sent you to prison for almost 20 years? Well, how did I take the fall?

How did I get you? What happened? So basically, what basically happened is someone's ripped me for some money, came back, and I went on a mad suicide mission. just looking for this guy and kidnapping any person who even had heard of him let alone work through him

just trying to find this guy and people unfortunately got caught in a crossfire along the journey and then what happened then? Then what's happened is I got nicked I got nicked

along the with two other people and one of them I don't know yet I got Nick with two other people and I was bowed to come back because I didn't fit the description What did you get Nick for?

What was the charge? Kidnapping Position of firearms they were the main charges I think in GBAH Yeah and I've been bowed to come back but I already made a decision

I'm not going to go back I'm going to see what happens with the others so I'm in a good position What do you mean to go back? To the police station. Oh, so you got bailed out. Yeah, I got bailed out. And it's looking good because I got bowed because I didn't fit the descriptions at that point.

I see. Okay. Should you get it? Yeah. So fast forward. Fast forward, I then go into another shooting. I'm going to another shooting where a man got, be careful. Oh, yeah, a man got shot.

And I've run. police are everywhere He's in Brixton There's this old man He was about 60 He had Loads of flour No fruits and veg

He just come from shopping I'm at his door I'm like yo bro But I give him this 200 pound I just want your coal And your veg Olish he's looked at the money

Gone in He's out stepped in Took his coal Got me some old app Got his veg Put a vase under it And it's walked out like this,

why they're all running and that's how I got away. Then I eventually got nicked for two shootings. There was another shooting in over West London. I'll go too deep into that, but that was just basically straightforward.

Someone was bringing some product from Amsterdam and yeah, I invested and didn't get what I was supposed to get in it when they were left. him and some, yeah, just went left.

So, yeah, that was it. Then I ended up, I ran trial. I had a troll. At that point, I'd called Nick Griffin as my QC, who's one of the best QCs there is. QC is a criminal lawyer? It's Casey now. At that point, it was Queens Council.

Now it's Kings Council, isn't it? And then they changed the date for my trial and said I couldn't have him. And then they gave me some next guy called Jerome Lynch, you had some show on ITV, his own show. How can they tell you what lawyer you can have? That sounds so crazy. Well, I picked Courtney, yeah?

Because he's the best. Right. But then they changed the date. I couldn't have him. Oh, he wasn't available. Yeah, so then there's a selection of maybe five or six. I picked Jerome because he was the best out of the rest. Even though I don't think he was good enough.

But he was the best out of the rest. What are your charges? It sounds like they're charging with all these things, the shootings, the kids, kidnappings. It's basically in America it would be like, that would be like a racketeering charge. That's what they would put on gang members. They put a bunch of different crimes. It's a weird one, yeah?

Because actually, my actual, and I don't know why. I haven't seen it before. I haven't seen it after because America's not like, I mean, England's not like UK. However, I did get put on CA for organized crime. That's, and that's I end up on the unit.

Right. Not a lot of people know that. That's not even a terminology they use in the UK. okay yeah but they had to justify putting me on the unit okay but what were the charges kidnapping attempted murder times too got possession of a submachine gun okay um possession of ang guns kidnap torture it was the old so that's a whole bunch of separate crimes they're putting on you as one charge and that's what they do with organized crime that's what i wanted to know yeah so they're trying to throw the book at you they're trying to put you away yeah so that's That's what they're trying to do.

So I mean... So you get this second best lawyer. You get this cat. I sack him after day one. Okay. I asked him to ask a certain question. He didn't ask it. So I thought, well, it was a point of issue

having my gun in court and you're not firing it. I was to fire it myself. So I sacked him and I defended myself for the three-month trial. Wow. Three months. Yeah, three-month trial. Oh, Bailey. Top court.

In there, I knew all the exhibits off my... off the top of my head. So we've, it's day one. I've just sacked him. He's, he's pissed, he's being sacked,

but he's saying they're, they're more angry. Yeah. And we're going to get this turned over, by the way. That's on our next year we're going to get it turned over. He said,

the prosecution, I'm not happy. I said, why? He goes, because they know their appeal court is going to let you walk home

with nothing. And that's all he said, and he didn't explain anything more. Yeah? I don't really know law apart from what I've been reading for the last couple years and I know my case, yeah?

And then he fucked off. Then we've gone downstairs and then the judge has told my solicitor that you've got... No, no, my solicitor wasn't even there. They told the clerk to tell my solicitor

that from tomorrow morning she will be required to attend court every day to give me legal advice and points of law as and when they're advising. Okay? Because I don't know law.

Right. And they don't want on the appeal, you being able to say, hey, I didn't have a council, I didn't have a proper counsel. Cool. See, in the next day, the solicitor turns out and says, I can't commit to that. She goes, I've got a big firm. I'm a partner. I've got loads of clients.

If I commit to that, I'm going to let down about 20 clients. The judge is like, well, you got to. Because I can't. Well, you're going to have to. Well, you're going to have to. Well, I'm, and then. Anyway, cut the story short, she didn't. So you, this kid with no education from the estates,

gangster, gangster is defending himself. And they hate that shit, by the way. In America, too, they hate it when you defend yourself. But even worse was the fact that I knew everything. These prosecutors, they usually pick up the case a night before, then they put it down and they got to do another case. So many cases, I knew every exhibit. So I remember there was the main officer.

He was giving evidence. And for example, one of the attempted murders, in Brixton, they were saying when the paperwork came back, they found my uncle's DNA on a cigarette butt in the car. Yeah, a car that was finding the scene. Right.

And it's his DNA 1 billion to 1. Okay? So then they went to go and visit my uncle, knocked his door. Said, listen, your cousin's obviously, your nephew's in jail for these shootings. Have you ever been in this car because we found your DNA on this cigarette butt

one billion to one? he's going, well, it can't be mine. So I've never given you me DNA. Shut the door. Yeah? So they're baffled. I don't know all this is going on. By the time we get to trial,

I know what's going on. And now they're saying, it's not his DNA 1 billion to 1. It belongs to my cousin 1 billion to 1. But I've already got my investigation team out there. My cousin at the time, by the way, and when the crime took place, was in jail. So he couldn't have been there.

So we've got, you said it's my uncle's 1 billion to 1. he's told you it's not his. Now you're telling the court in documents that it's my cousin's $1 billion to one. I've got my investigating team to go to Dartmoor where my cousin was and get a statement from the governor who could confirm that at the relevant time

and now my cousin's been in H&P, Dartmoor, and it definitely can't be his $1 billion to one. So then the officer comes to court, he's there. I'm like, do you know what perjury is? He's like, yeah, I said, explain to the jury. I said, don't look at me. Explain to the jury what perjury. She's explains them what perjure is.

She said, if you've a lie, have you, if you, if you, no, how important is DNA in this case? Address to the jury. She's addressed to the jury, it's important. One billion to one, do-da-da-da-da. So I said, okay, help me with this.

You went to Mr. Martin Campbell's house, who's my uncle, is that correct? Yes. And you told him that, you found a cigarette butt, and a DNA on that cigarette butt is one billion to one. It is. But he had never given you a sample. Explain to the jury, how is that possible?

So he explained that we made that error, but we went back to the lab. And, you know, we double-checked and tripled down and it belongs to your cousin, one billion to one, Mr. Dean Martin. I said, yeah, oh, you're one, I would like to introduce this exhibit. This is from the governor, blah, blah, blah, blah, H&P Dartmoor, who clarifies within this statement

that Mr. Dean Martin has been stationed located there for the last two years. So it was impossible for him to be. be at the crime scene last year and therefore impossible for it to be one billion to one. The jury's looking at, judges looking at it, the guys that's looking at me like this. I'm saying, explain

to the jury how that is possible. Ajourn, adjourn, adjourn, take him down. We're going to recess until tomorrow. Whoa, whoa, whoa, what you mean? Let him answer this. Take him down, take him down. I didn't see that officer for five days. Five days I didn't see that officer. So they were lying.

on you. He turns up. Yes. We made an error. It's one billion to one. Your DNA. Right. I said, yeah, you lot too much for me.

And that was a shooting? That was the first shooting? Yeah, that was for armed. That was for shooting in Brickson. Okay. What did they end up nailing you on? They nailed me on two attempting all charges. Only charge I got a not guilty on was the submachine gun.

And that was because I had a defense that he shot me that the person anonymous shot me shot into the car did you get it rather than me shooting out

the car and they couldn't it was a sketchy one so how did they get you on that shooting though if it was clearly they were caught lying what are you talking about they had loads of different

evidence from different little like from there they had they had okay they had me and my Cody the man got shot didn't pick me out in IAD parade but he picked my colder friend in that

but he didn't pick me out yeah and I can I can say he didn't pick me out okay so there was there was one of little things in it that they was they used to connect you yeah to get me so even though I shouldn't have really

like running a trial with just that attempted M I'd almost basically bust it you would have beat it but you had all these other fucking cases yeah plus the judge is letting them do some nonsense that they're doing. So it was just a case of... It's an unwinnable case overall.

You're just trying to... If I was a lawyer, I'm just trying to get this guy often enough to where he doesn't spend the rest of his life in prison. That's kind of how I would be looking at it. Yeah, well, I had the choice. I could have plead guilty and got a lot. What were they offered...

So they offered you a plea deal? Yeah. What was that? I can't remember now, but I think it was something like 15, 18 years. Huh. Okay. I'm like, fuck. Ha. And that's what I say in the order, but I rolled the dice, man.

Yeah. But you ended up only doing about 18 years. Yeah, 17 years, 11 months. But if I would have got 18 years, normal sentence, not life. What'd you do out of that? I would have done like maybe 12. Yeah. What were you?

Okay, so you ended up three months trial. Very impressive. You defended yourself. Did you have witnesses testifying against you? Yeah. How many that you remember? Three months. have trouble, man.

A few? Yeah, maybe. Did you have any gangsters, like cats that were in the game that testified against you, or were they just civilians? Different levels, yeah. They sold drugs. But, yeah, they were right. Yeah, they...

And you were at Belmarch for how long while you were preparing the case and while they were... Like, how long were you there? I was in Belmarsh for... Over a year. Yeah. I was there after the first three, three, four months, and I end up in the block.

Me and my cold friend that we're in the block. And we're moving a bit wild. Let's look at each other and let's beat the screws up. Like, it was a bad, yeah. And he's a knockout specialist. Right. Who said he's not cutting his ear or coming out of the block, period until he gets justice.

So he stayed in block for over a decade. Wow. Just beating him, my cold defender. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that sounds about right. That's how long it takes for these big cases.

Yes, it's about a year. I would say about three, four months, normal. Then I ended up in the block. We're in the block together. The old three months of the trial, we was in the block for the old three months. And that's solitary confinement, right? Yeah, yeah.

The old trial, both of us were in the block. Yeah. Yeah, just fighting them as in when we want. And then when I got, When I got found guilty, they put me on the unit. Okay, so you got found guilty. Are you facing life? Yeah.

They told me before the, they offered a deal that if I didn't plead guilty, he was looking to give me a life sentence. Oh. Okay. So, but how much time you didn't get a life sentence? So what was... I did get life. Oh, you did get life.

What, two live sentences. Two, the judge sentenced me to two life sentences. to two live sentences, one for one attempted murder, one for the second attempted murder, and he gave me 100 years for all the other charges concurrent. That sounds like a fucking, that sounds like an American sentence, bro.

Everyone's like, why are you here? How did you get back here? Like, when I told people that's the sentence, some of people like, yeah, that's what he gave me two. Are you escaped right now? Are you allowed to? No, I'm, no, but he said all that, and he was like, he went in the judge.

He goes, the only way you're going to come home is, old age or in a box. Yeah. And but then the next line, a lot of people like to forget the next line, unless the psychologist deem it safe for you to do so. So he left that open and that was transcribed in the court. So now you got action, baby.

Action. I ain't killed no one. Yeah. First and foremost, I've got all killers around me in this eye security estate. Yeah? That's my first plus. I ain't killed nobody.

Yeah? B, I've got a psychologist. I've done the SCP course. You skipped a lot of stuff, but the SCP course, which is the course. They can listen to the book. Which is the course, basically. I don't think it's in the book.

But it's just the course that you've got to do to... Rehabilitate yourself and lower your sentence. And lower your risk. Yeah. That makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, I completed that course.

and yeah, I built a relationship with a psychologist. Let me guess you're having sex with her. No. They're the ones I didn't go in there, bro. Smart. They fuck you all. They got the, they got your life in their hands, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It wasn't like that, but we had a professional relationship. And, yeah, they rolled me out as the poster boy because I had basically done that transition, done the course. How long did the course take? 18 months. It was a long course. Wow. And was it was it were a lot of work? Yeah, a lot of work.

Yeah. And it actually works. Yeah. Do you think it changed you? It clearly changed you. 100%. What year into your stretch did you complete that? Oh, maybe, um, it was hard to do.

I couldn't get on the course because I kept going around in circles. I was in different beefs. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Maybe eight, nine, ten. It took me a while to get on the course. We had to, we had to threaten them, take them to court. Judistical review.

Because at that point, the only prison that done the course was Long Larton, and the government at the time wouldn't accept me. So we're like, well, if I can't do the course, I can't get down to Cat B, that means I never go home. Yeah. He's like, so? Like, I called, we just J reviewed him. Yeah.

And then they transferred me and they had to transfer me in to do the course. And once I've done the course, you start moving from the system very quickly. So what year You came home in 2018 19? 2019 So was that in America It's called like

You go before the parole board Cause getting paroled So you know you've completed this course Maybe you've got your degree in there You've got some trades Or whatever you stayed out of trouble for a while They all consider that as a factor right Is that you went before the board

Yeah What do they call in England? Pro board I went before the pro board on two occasions The first occasion was for DCAT. You got to go in front of the Pro Bowls for a DCAT. And they didn't want to give it to me, actually. Where was I?

I think I was in Stockholm originally. And I was the mentors, mentor. I used to mentor the mentors. I loved for that I used to say that. Sounds fine, yeah. I used to mentor the mentors. That was one of the top jobs. I had that job.

And then I was doing another mentor job with this lady, I can't know my name. But yeah, I was doing a mental job with this other lady. And she had a big argument with, this is very important, she had a big argument with the ed of education, some blonde lady, big argument. Marion, that's my tutor's name. It's a big argument.

And in front of the teacher, in front of the class, she's coming, oh, you come here. In front of the old, everyone's asking me, the mental skin. So anyway, after it calmed down and break time, I've gone to see the Ed, I'm saying, look, no, it's not my place, not to do with me, but right now you need to kind of keep that away from the class

because they're asking me and I don't know. Anyway, I got sacked just for saying that, yeah? But I've got nicked as well, sacked, us case, all of that. Lost my job, end up in the worst workshop on planet, yeah? So I got shipped out. After someone tried to hit me, I even told you about that. But I got shipped out. And then when I went for the pro board,

the pro board looked at that instant. Remember, I've been punished for it. That's my job for it. Yeah. It looks bad. Okay, but the pro board said, you basically lost your job, got moved to a shit wing,

for standing up for Marion, your teacher. Do you regret it? I said, no. I said, why not? she's a female when she was nearing tears in the class and I was my mentor it was my job too

for socially protector they said yeah 10 years ago you would have never done this we commend you for what you've done giving me his decap and then they said don't say

don't write nothing bad about us when you go home and that was to get decat which means you get the lower security level that means you can go in and out of prison

once you do you can stay out for only four or five days. You get to reintegrate back into society. Does that make sense? Interesting. So don't do any of that shit in America. Okay. That's what they do for decats.

And you're a decat. How long were you decat for? I've decat on two occasions. Just call it 18 months in total. Okay. So you do three months where you can't come out. After three months, you can start going out for day releases. And after four months, you can start getting home these three days.

Then they might move it up to five. Does that make sense? So I got my D-Kat. cat. Then I went for my parole board. No, so I had my pro board coming in December. I never forget, bro. It was November the 1st. Yeah, it was November the 1st, 218. And we got phones in it. We're not supposed to have phone, but we got phones in there.

And I'm talking to some woman, yeah, but she don't know where I am in it. Yeah? or she's very demanding on my time. Anyway, she sent me a picture, whatever, some sexy picture, celebrity woman still want to show her to you, whether you want to put it up there or not. It's still to you, yeah?

And I'm like, okay, cool. And then I put my phone away around 10 to 7. On 1st November 2, 18, 7 o'clock, door's come off. Yeah? Don't move, doda, da, da, da. Anyway, they're shipping me out. They ship me out.

to HMP, Lewis. That's like a closed prison. Okay. So you're out of there, opened you out, move you to a closed prison. Moving to a closed prison, that was like November 1st, 218. I didn't go home to my next parole.

I lost my parole that year. I should have had parole in December, 280, I should have went on parole and gone home. Why was it, though? Is it because they found you with the phone? They didn't even find the phone. Someone kept phoning up. Snitching.

Yeah, saying, I got a phone. He's got a phone. And they didn't even find the phone. I put that to one side. So I didn't go home to 2019. Mm. Okay? 2019, um,

October. Wow. That's when I went on. Wow. Got my parole. So it's like five years. Exactly. Five years to the date.

You've been home. Yeah. Wow. How was a, London changed. London, how's London changed? In the 18 years you were gone. Yeah, it's changed completely different.

Completely, right? Yeah, it's different in many ways like you. I mean, you think Chelsea's the safest place. It's not. It's one of the worst places. That's up. I was all pulling you on that one. You think, no, did he?

You think, yeah, Chelsea's calm. It's a beautiful, up. No. What's changed now is these kids will stab you anywhere, rob you anywhere, kill you anywhere and go to prison the same day. So they don't care. That's why I picked recently,

last month someone got killed outside Aritz, which is one road away from Aritz, which you think Knightsbridge, it's, no, because they're desperate for money and they haven't got nothing to live for. It doesn't seem like the drug money has slowed down. Like in the United States, the drug money's really slowed down

because marijuana is legal, the cartels of a stranglehold on the drugs coming in from Mexico. There is money in it, but it's not like the old days. Yeah. But here, there's no fentanyl yet. So it doesn't seem like the drug trade has slowed down here like it has in the U.S.,

meaning people are still doing Coke, people are still doing selling weed, still illegal here, right? Like, there's money in the streets still. There's no money in America anymore. There's money in the street, but not no serious money from what I'm understanding. It doesn't make an essential.

It's going to go to prison for a long time. So yeah, there are people who make money from drugs But it's not the way It's not the way to make money anymore Because of everything that comes with it And I think these youngsters They're not even getting a chance to do that They've got a knife

So the best they can do is rob your phone Rob bikes Or try and rub you outside Harrods And the killing is basically senseless Well, they're killing each other and going to prison The same day They're killing on camera and going to prison What is the point?

It doesn't make no sense You're doing something. You're committing a crime on camera, which you're going to go to prison for for the next 15, 16 years. It doesn't make any sense. So gangsters like you are kind of the last of a generation. In terms of... There's a few about, but in terms of...

I'm saying young ins coming up are not moving like you guys moved back of the day. No, no, no. We was more focused on trying to get money, trying to stay at jail. Not saying anything wasn't reckless because we were super reckless, but we had much more brains than this new. generation in terms of them just wanting to do things and go straight to prison. It doesn't really make any sense. But yeah, that's why we had a meeting last week with one of the Labour executives, Phil McCauley,

regarding a new anti-knife project that myself and my team, my professional team, about to lay out And... Good for you. Yeah, the prime minister, he just rolled out a new... A new project with Idris Alba. In which they stay, within the next 10 to 15 years, they want to stop knife crime. I'm like, that's fuckery.

That'll make no sense. I mean, do you know, many people would die between now and in 15 years' time? These guys are dying every day. But, yeah, we've come up with a nice... That's good, man. A nice project. And you're like,

entertainer, screenwriter, playwright, you know, all this amazing stuff's happened in just five years. So what I want to do is because we're going to switch over. We're going to talk some more on the Patreon, the bonus episode. But I want first to plug your audio book. I want people to go get your book. Yeah. In any of the holes, anythings we didn't talk about,

they're going to be in that book. So tell them, plug your socials, tell them where to get the book. Tell them where to find you. Yeah. You can find me on social media. obviously. My name is full name, Carlon,

Campbell Robinson, obviously. I've got two audio books, a product of my environment, Book 1 and Book 2. I've got a critically acclaimed play called Evie Coin. You can find all of that

on the GCM-E-N-T group slash online website, which is my website channel. The links will be you'll put the links out there right yeah of course and um yeah i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm also the producer of a new reality tv show called cancelled um tell us what that premise is that's cool i want to see that come to light yeah well we shot the tv pilot last year yeah um at to raise i raised that 150 grand in total and we shot the tv pilot in a place called litchfield where we

had 12 with the biggest influences off of YouTube. And not YouTube, sorry, TikTok. No one had really done that before getting all of the TikTokers together in one space. And we also, so the winner was going to get 25,000 pounds. Um, worth of shares in the Banksy Valentine's Day massacre painting. Basically, the person who bought it paid a million for it. And they came up with the idea. to fractionalize it.

Right, which they're doing. Using my show and the influencers to give it the PR that it needs because it's going to go back to millions of people, right? Yeah. So the winner ended up getting 25K worth of shares and 10,000 pounds cash. We've got millions of views.

It was really, really exciting. And then since then fast forward, we've now linked up with a new brand, which you know of. We're going to go to the fight this weekend. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. So I can say it because it'll be about them.

Yeah, so we've linked up with MTGP, which is Mutai, with Philip and Calvin. And yeah, they came in and we joined forces with those guys. And now we're at the sharp end of negotiations to do episode one. We've also got our own social media platform. Fortunately, the billionaire, he had built that platform maybe four years ago, five years ago. So where they've jumped into bed with us, not literally. No did he.

Yeah, we've been able to basically do a deal where we licensed the codes. So we've got our own social media platform, which is great. We can't get cancelled, et cetera, et cetera. And yeah, that's it. We've got canceled here. We got canceled in the US. There's a US-counseled. Nice. Magnus Fines, he's our US partner.

You might know Ragnos Fines. He's Bobbos Ralph Fines, plays Vaudermont in Harry Potter. Ah, you know that. Yeah, yeah, Hollywood Royalty. Yeah. Magnus E set up the US side of the company for us over there. And we've got GSM TV, which is a new company, which, yeah, that's the company we're trading from now. and the company that's going to own the social media platform.

So that's it really. Isn't it wild to look back on your life, all those years spent in prison, all those years spent, you know, there's so much bullshit in the street, right? Look what you did in five years. You know what I mean?

Just five years. Like, that's what was like less than a third of the time you did in prison. I actually went back. You went back to the prison? I went back. I've been on three years. And immediately, where I went back.

Oh, wow. I had a tag on my foot. Okay? Yeah. Never told this story either. I'm telling it. I had a tag on my foot, GPS. They knew where I was all times.

Smart. No, they put it there. Not me. No, I know. I would have done the same thing. They're like, you've come on after 17 years. Right, put a tag on this motherfucker's foot. Yeah.

So they got a tag on. That's fine. They put me in a barrel hostel. They put me in a hostel in Brighton, okay? My ex, I haven't spoke to her in a year by the time I come on. and with someone else. Okay? I found this girl.

She's a beautiful girl. Her name was Natalie. It's a bit complicated because she was from the opposition camp. Ah. Yeah? Her best friend, Lisa, I send you the photo.

I was, fuck it. Her best friend Lisa was with one of the big ops from the other side. Okay? And I just went to check out her page to see what the ops are up to when I actually see this beautiful 10-10.

Like, who the fuck is this? And we got it cooking. And we actually connected. When it came for my parole, the parole you asked me about, it was her that I had to go and buy my shirt in Canary Wolf and fly it up the motorway. Yeah, yeah, from London to Lewis.

We was that tired. So by the time I come home, she's the wife. I've seen that I'm going a year. But guess what happens? On my birthday, the 22nd, 2019, my phone rings. I just know it, sir. I don't know the number.

I can just feel the energy. My cousin comes in and goes, bro, your uncle just gave her your number. I'm like, what the fuck? She's screaming. You come home. You ain't even said hello. After all the visits, da, da, da, da, I'm just got to keep her calm. I'm petrified.

I don't want to argue anybody. I've just come home. I don't know who I'm calling the police. Yeah. I don't know what I'm just, boom, phone down. Anyway, I won't tell her where I am. I won't tell her where I'm living, okay? Cool.

She starts threatening me. I'll get you recalled. She knows my probation officer's name. She knows everything. Yeah. So she's, all the threats are coming. It's terrifying, dude.

There's nothing you'll be able to do. She could just be like, ah, he hit me. Yes. Say it what happened? Whoa. So I'm like, what the fucks?

So I won't meet her. I told her I'm in London. I ain't told her I'm in Brighton because she lives in Brighton. I haven't told her I'm in Brighton. About us. I'm not telling you where it is. Da-da-da-da-da.

But cut the story short. She's ringing down my phone. ringing my phone. ringing my phone. phone nightmare. So I go on Tobolation to listen

yeah doing the right thing because it's becoming a bit jarring because I was in the hostel I'd be on FaceTime

with my girl for hours but every time she rings it cuts out the face time just cuts it out so someone's

got their finger on speed dial for four hours which was pretty normal for her that's four hours you can't

have a FaceTime with your girl it was that kind of crazy yeah and so I'm like what the fuck

so I know I told probation show them all the messages all that stuff, cool, probation's supposed to write it down because it's a risk.

I might go around there knock her at for all she knows. She might come down there and knock her at for there. There's some friction here. This, she hides it in her pocket. Doesn't tell no one. A month later, no, sorry, two months later,

my ex makes allegation that on on, on, on November the 1st or something like, November 11th, I think it's November the 1st or 11th, whatever. I came to her house and I slapped her. And also I've been coming to her house, driving past her house every day. For October, November, December, four or five times a week.

Okay? Four or five times for the week, Carlo's been driving up and down my house and he slapped me, yeah? And I've got probation of recalled me. That's not what I've got recalled for the total secretary of state, guns, historically, get him in jail. all I've got to say is GPS data. I haven't been to our house once.

Yeah, right. Yeah, but I don't have a discussion with you. GPS data, produced the data, and it was show I'd never been there, period. Not in October, not in December, not in November, not in December, not even once. So we're not even having a dialogue at a fight for this fucking GPS data,

sack three free solicitors. They wouldn't get it. It's all a plan. And you're in jail while you're trying. trying to get this data read. All I'm saying is, new solicitor, what's going on? All I want you to do is just get me the GPS data

which will prove I wasn't there and this is all the set up. That's it. Months, gone past two months. What's going on? Stories, gone. New solicitor. What do you want? Just get the GPS data for my tag,

which would prove I wasn't there and I get on. I'm fighting, fighting, fighting. I can't get it. I'm like, what the fuck? Then the pro board are trying to say, oh, we can go ahead without the data. At that point, we issued them with court papers and say,

Judicial review, we're taking you to call because you put this tag on my foot so you know where I am. Yeah. What good is the surveillance state if you're not going to use the data? Guess what God doesn't sleep. So what's happened now is I got taken to a visit. The first visit on the phone with probation,

Officer Davenport takes me. First time I've ever met him. We go, I'm sitting there talking to probation. and he's sitting there reading his paper. I'm saying GPS data, can we bring the data up, please? That's all I want you to do. Why haven't you put it in the paperwork?

Don't speak like that. We talk about what I want to talk about respectfully, the GPS data, why haven't you put it in the paperwork? Why haven't you put in a paperwork that I showed you the messages when she was threatening to get me a colleague called? Why not?

You're being aggressive? I said, I'm cool. The officer's call. He's just reading the paper. Everybody's called. The only person who seems a bit irate is yourself. So I'm going to ask you again, why haven't you put the GPS data at Bler?

Cut the phone. A week later, I see Mr. Davenport for the second time. He's like, your probation officer and your inside probation officer, they contacted me, and they told me to say that you was aggressive, you was shouting,

banging a table, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I said, what? He goes, yeah, it's all bullocks. I went straight to the, the governor and I reported them. I said, cool. I wrote straight to the governor.

Officer Davenport has told me, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it supports what I'm saying. They're trying to collude to keep me in jail. Wow. But where I've got him in it, so the governor's got it. It's a female. She's obviously spoke to Davenport. If you told him, yeah, I told him.

So I've got, I'm saying, you're not going to be involved in the conspiracy if you want. So they've come and said, no, no, no. What you said is true. He backs it. And we're going to do an investigation. And remember what they're trying to do? They really wanted you, man.

But they really wanted me. But remember what she said I was doing, banging, screaming, yeah? But she also in her report, while she didn't put in the report that I had disclosed those messages, what she did put in the report was this. In January, Carlon reported to probation on three occasions, shouting, screaming, in aggressive, banging tables. She's trying to create a theme that I'm unfit for the streets.

So that's what she's put. in January. When I put in the complaint, I was able to identify it on the 14th, 17th and 18th. That's when I saw you in January. And because I knew you was on fuckery, I recorded all three conversations. And here's the audio.

So there was no banging. There was no screaming. So they've got that. And they're like, fucking niggas, I only recorded you. He's put two complaints in. Don't tell no lies. because if he's recorded you,

at random, he must be, so when they asked her, did he disclose that those messages, where she said, I can get you recall anytime. It's that easy. I said,

you're all, she said, yes, she couldn't deny it because she's thinking, they're thinking he might have recorded that too. Right.

Yeah? So, they find her guilty, my probation officer, of gender, I was saying racism, but they found her guilty of gender bias.

So they took her to do, criminal trial? She lost her job, everything. Wow. That recall, I went to jail. So how long were you down, though, fighting this? 18 months. 18 months fighting it. Where were you? You were in... I was in HMPI down.

How did you have a phone to record? No, I recorded when I was in the community, going to probation. I see. So every time I'm going to probation, because I know if she's moving of it, I'm recording it and locking it off, recording it and locking it off. So there's proof of our interaction. So when she set me up and got me recalled, and I've gone back to prison, remember I ain't done nothing.

Right. But it took them 18 months just to get this whole thing adjudicated. But then when we got food, an officer named, I'm a probation guy called Mr. Lowe. He done the investigation after me pressuring them.

And when he spoke to EMS who I've got the data, they said, we already gave her the data before he got arrested. Wow. Wow. What you want us to do?

Send it again. It's all on file, but we can send it again if you want. they already had it. She had it before I even got recalled. So when she was telling the Secretary of State

his ex has made an allegation and you know historically he's in job he's involved in firearms and I can't manage him out air. She already had the GPS data which proved I was not there, did not go there, period. But she hid it.

So obviously she lost her job for that. Yeah, I mean, you should probably go to be held criminally liable because you lost another 18, months of your life. That stuff. Yeah. But they don't do that yet.

They don't hold prosecutors. Prosecutors do that. They withhold evidence that could exonerate criminals on trial. And they hold it back. And the worst that happens is they lose their job. But there you go. And it was just all, yeah, it was all where. She lost her, she lost her job.

Hopefully you can sue. The female, the female who, I don't wish, no, no, no, no, no, no, RIP. She died, man. Wow. Okay. we've been going. We've got to switch over to the Patreon now. Go follow, go follow please. Carlon Tiny Robinson

I get your whole name right? Campbell Robinson. Yes. Go follow him. Go check out his book. And we're going to talk a little bit more because we want to hear about prison. If you go over to patreon.com slash the Connect show. Man, what an epic, dude. You are a special kind of guy, bro. We haven't got there yet, man. but we've done right. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. We got, we got the body of it. You got the bullet points, dude. You got the bullet points, dude? Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right, so we'll see you over there, and we're going to go to that fight on Saturday. It's about to be fire.

That's going to be fire, man. Different level. Go pick that audio book up right now, both of them. And we'll see you over on Patreon. Take care, guys. Thanks, brother. Peace.