The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Migrant Smuggler Reveals How Cartel Trafficking Works, WARNS Of Conditions At The Border

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

This week we bring you a completely exclusive interview with a migrant smuggler who has asked to remain anonymous. He spoke with us at the El Paso/Juarez border. He goes into detail about how he got involved in helping migrants cross the border, the organizations and cartels that run the operation, how and why migrants are coming over, as well as insight into the treatment of these on both sides of the border and the direction he believes this is all headed. It’s a one of a kind, fascinating conversation with a perspective you won’t get anywhere else! Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No matter how I look at it, the world's going to look at it. It's human smuggling. Even though I'm not hiding them, I'm not doing it in Cognito. It's still smuggling and it's illegal. So you got a truck. Okay. What's up, guys? I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas.

You're going to love this special holiday episode. We interviewed an actual human smuggler. Last month, we went down to the U.S.-Mexico border and talked to a man who works for a human smuggling organization, somebody who helps smuggle migrants from Mexico into the U.S. This was an American guy, and he shed light on the situation at the border. He talked about his job, what he does, his function within the organization, and how he sees the migrant crisis unfolding in the United States. This was a very important episode.

I enjoyed it. It's different than anything we've ever done. and of course if you want bonus content head over to the Patreon. Patreon.com slash The Connect show. Have a great holiday. We appreciate everybody so much. Enjoy this episode.

My name is Johnny Mitchell and you are watching The Connect. I don't want to do this any much longer, man, because I don't want to ever get in trouble. I don't want to be taken away from my family. I don't want any of that. Even though I'm doing a good thing in God's eyes,

the world's looking at me like, I am the cartel. That's when I see you. lights behind me start the flash and I didn't even think I just hit it I was driving like my life depended on and then I parked the car popped out closed the door and I started running and he pulls out a burner shang it's like six inches and he passes it to me and he goes here that's yours don't ever leave the cell block without this he was the reason I made it out of that place alive so I guess just start from the beginning how did you get into this well I got tricked into it actually uh there's a guy

back home that was needing some help construction. And this was during the pandemic. So, you know, he had a couple people with them, put him in my truck and like, all right, let's be here six in the morning. We'll head out. And we started here now, he had some people with them. Really thought that we were gonna go do some construction.

And as soon as we get to the location, he has them stop, get out, get out of the truck, looking at some construction equipment. They go with them. He says, I'm going to take him to another sign. I'm going to bring another pair of guys over here to work with you. So, okay, didn't think anything of it. He never came back.

You didn't hear from him until the next day. So I was waiting there for about four hours and, yeah, didn't hear anything, nothing. I was really upset, pissed. So later that night, I just get a text. Hey, bud, I'll talk to you tomorrow. I do need, we are going to work tomorrow. Sorry, accident happened. Then reply to me after I text them, called him, nothing.

So the next morning I went to the same place that we had met, and he was there, and he had some other people with him. So I said, hey, so where's the other guys from yesterday? I mean, if we're going to work, don't do that to me again. No, sorry, man. He was like, those are different workers. They operate different machinery. Fine, whatever.

Get in my truck, head out. Again, check points are closed. No one's checking us. It's COVID. COVID. Had no clue. I mean, not going to ask them, the LID, nothing. Had no idea.

He did it again. And after that, like, he told me just to meet him, you know, at the next town. Win him at the next town, hand me a lot of cash. What's this for? Go for work. What do you mean? for work. What do you, what are you talking about? He's like, you don't get it, do you? You don't know what's going on? And I said, no, I, I, we're coming to work, you're getting people, but, no, where are they

putting it at? Where are they working at? He said, wherever they go, where are the families want them to go. Yeah. So I said, yeah, we're bringing illegals over. said we're just driving them to the next destination for the next driver to pick them up. And how much did he pay you? So that time with, there's three, six, seven, that seven total. It was like about nine grand. Nine grand, and just for being there? Just for taking them just across to the next checkpoint.

Wow. Taking them across the checkpoint that was closed. And you thought you were. were taking a bunch of migrant laborers to a job site? Yeah, I didn't know that they were like illegals. I thought they just lived in cruises. Yeah. Some Mexicans that do construction that were going to go and work.

Lay some concrete down, dig some holes, and share shit. Trick the hell out of me. All right, I'm going to take them to the next job site and bring out some other ones. Just stay here. Four hours later, I'm still sitting there. And they're all gone. You had no idea you were committing a federal crime. I had no idea.

Wow. So, and then you realized, just by doing that, you realized, wow, there's big money in this. Yeah. Do you have a criminal past? I don't. I've never been in trouble for anything. It's just minor speeding tickets. That's it, but I have never done anything, like, bad, nothing bad. So you're Mexican-American. But you're very much American. You grew up here. Father is gringo from America. Yeah, my dad's from America.

My mom's from Mexico. Right. Much like what we've learned about drugs and the way that cartels smuggled drugs to the U.S., the same thing has kind of happened with human smuggling. They are now employing or working with people like you, Americans, to traffic their goods, to traffic people. Mm-hmm. How common is that?

How common is somebody like you, an American who's working with the Mexican organizations? It's very common. It's too common. Would you say it's exclusive? Yeah. It's only Americans, once people cross, they're only dealing with citizens. You do get some that are illegals working. I know that there's been times where...

times where I had to drop them off north and the next driver is someone who I dropped off like a month ago. Yeah. And now he's got a job. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, he's all, oh, it's me and Manro and, you know, tell me who's his brother and I'm like, oh, damn, okay. So there, a lot of them that I have taken over there, they're working. They're doing pretty much what I'm doing. Um, except they're not crossing them through any checkpoints. Right. There's quite a bit of them that go, a lot of them go to their families. Right.

I have heard from some others that they were taking them just to have them as laborers to pay off their debt for getting them across. Not too familiar with that area, but with the families, that's primarily what I do with the family. But it seems like somebody like you is the ideal partner for cartels, because, because you're a citizen, you speak the language, you know the area, you're able to pass back and forth between checkpoints. So it only makes sense. Now, we just came from the hotel room where you had, what was it, four? Four people, and you're getting ready to move them tonight. Not tonight.

Sometime within the next day or so. Okay. Explain to us the tactic. So they got over, they got over, they climbed the fence, I think I heard. Yeah. So, and where? Close to here. We're in like downtown El Paso Juarez.

Was it a close crossing point? It's more like in Selman Park area. So is that more west or east? West, I believe. Okay. So you have nothing to do with that. No, nothing. That's all through another Correta that does all that.

So you just get a call on your phone. that you've got four people that need to be picked up. Yes. So where did you go pick them up? So what I used to do is I would wait for them to send me a location. So once they're across, get the location, I'd go follow that location and pick them up. Now it's a bit different.

Everything is a lot more risky. So there are people who I call it just pick up drivers. And they'll go around in the middle of the night all night long, finding illegals, like straight dogs. Yeah. Being a dog catcher going and picking them up and, you know, contacting who the head person is, working something out with them, and then getting a call, hey, go pick them up at this place.

They're at a house. So-and-so has them. All right, so they'll send me a location where that person's houses. Normally they'll send me and we'll meet somewhere. And we'll go meet. I get them and go on with my business. So you don't even have to take the risk of picking them up. you know, on the road.

Not anymore. Not anymore. Do you employ people like drivers, dog catchers? No, no, no, no. I don't employ any of those. Is everybody, are all the people on the chain operating essentially independently? Everybody that's working in this business, are any of them employed directly from the organization on the other side? Or are people like you, coyotes,

is dog catchers, for lack of a better term. Is everybody just a freelancer, or are there people that actually work for somebody else? There's a lot of them that work for someone else. I did work for an organization last year. That's where, you know, I had gotten started with and found out who they were. Very, very nasty ones.

I'm not going to say their name. Can you say where they're based out of? And Wadde is El Paso area. Okay. Have you ever met these guys, the guys you work for on the other side, or is it all over the phone? It has been over the phone. There's been a couple incidents where I had met them in person and I had no idea that's who they were. Last year it was kind of hectic where there's a lot of people that were trying to get.

into the work business and we're screwing up, picking people up, trying to hold them for ransom. And, of course, they're going to call every single person that's helping that team out and interrogate them. So I'd gone a couple nasty calls, threats. I mean, they knew it wasn't me, but they didn't have, they couldn't single me out. So after you, after you started working, you may, just for bringing, you may just for bringing people from one checkpoint to the other, you were making 2,000, 3,000 a body. How much do you make now? Um, no. It just, it just, it really depends. Um, there's times where like there's someone or like

a couple families will say, hey, we need this person over it. Like, it's an important person. I'll get to call that. This is a very important person. We need to make sure we take of them. We need to pick them up now. Um. you know all right well where's it at it's in a location that's it's too risky if i say man it's i can't do it there's too many eyes out there not comfortable they'll raise up the price i'll give you two okay i'll give you 2500 a person now it's it's like 15 to 1700 and um it fluctuates right right uh so in there each one of those guys say 1500 bucks you know it's about What is that? About $6,000.

Is that, how often can you move a group of four? Like, do you have other groups like that waiting at other locations, stash houses right now? No, I don't think so. You just have one at a time. You just do one group of a time. Yeah, normally it's like one, two people at a time. Four is very, very rare now just because everything has got so crazy. Last year, yeah, it could have been up to like 10 people at once in a year.

going up north. Wow. Picking them up too and just going. But now it's a lot, it's a lot less. Is that because there's so much more law enforcement? Yeah, because border, border checkpoints have opened up. So it's not easy to drive through. Oh, so COVID was the boom time for this business.

Oh, it was booming. Even though there's times where they were open. And it would surprise us. They would open up all of a sudden. Scared out of my mind thinking like, oh, my God, drive right through. see me. I know they saw them. Definitely saw them and still just let me go through. So with those guys, those four migrants from southern Mexico, you know, clearly they look like illegal or immigrants, right? What's your strategy? What are you going to do? How are you going to

fool the border checkpoint? There's different ways to do it. I mean, you can one or two of them, you can make them look like they're your kid or someone else's kid. You know, you have a... Find a friend, a woman who's oversized lady and, you know, that's, oh, just my two mihos, you know, whatever. You get them across, no problem.

The other ones can dress them up as landscapers. Load up a van or a truck with landscaping material. You're going to work next town, you know, they'll just wave you by. What's the most... genius way that you have ever moved a group of people or that you've ever heard of as a way to smuggle. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone

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I've done it once. I felt bad, kind of. I haven't, I mean, I put new clothes on them, of course, like I always do. but I had them pretend like they had Down syndrome and I put some bibs on them, had their shirts, had, like, food on them and just made them really look and actually some of them looked like they did have Down syndrome.

Right, right. But they didn't. Did you comb their hair forward like that? Yeah, it was pretty much like, what, the ringer with Johnny Knoxville? Nice, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, so I have them counting a bunch of things? I had one of them eating a lot.

The other one was asleep, and the other one was. was, I think he was like just picking his nose or something like that. So what does a checkpoint look like? So they, how is it different from crossing like the border? Well, the checkpoint, like, do you not always get stopped? Do they stop every car or do they just do it at their discretion? At their discretion. Okay.

So it's different than actually crossing, they stop every car at the border. It's not as strict. it sounds like. Right, no, not at every checkpoint now. I mean, especially if there's corrupted ones that are working, they'll swing you on by fast. So let's talk about that. We were talking off-camera about corruption.

Obviously, Mexico is completely corrupt. We all know that. What about corruption on this side? Border guards. And your experience, have you seen the organizations bribe and corrupt U.S. border agents? I haven't seen it, but there are corrupted border agents, corrupted officials, yes. I mean, I've seen it as far as, like, going through the checkpoint and them kind of, you know, pointing me out and I see who they are, let them go.

Do the people you work for, if they have a border guard that's corrupt, will they let you know where it's at? Like, you tell you heads up, hey, go use this point of entry because we've got somebody on the inside there? Yeah, they've done that. They've done that before. They'll tell me which route to go and which way they'll say, you need to be here at this time. So-and-so's working. He's on our team, so just go. You got a truck. Oh, okay. We're just talking. Okay, cool. And that's easy money, right? Like, do you, like, that seems like the most ideal way to move people through. through is when you got a corrupt guard.

It is, man, but it's also scary because, I mean, they'll get scared themselves and then they'll try to play Mr. Good Guy and fuck you over, and then it just comes falling down on them. Right. So, I mean, it's everywhere, man. I mean, it's bad here. It's really bad. Is the price higher for migrants that have the get to pass through?

Because, you know, obviously they have to pay. It's more expensive for an organization. they have to bribe somebody at the border, obviously the price is going to be higher to get through. And do you get paid more? There's been a couple times where I got paid more just because they were important people to get across. And as far as important people,

it's like a woman and a child. Right. You know, like they're running away. And whatever they're affiliated with or whoever they, it's normally like their brother, their sister, cousins that are affiliated. with an organization, that's kind of like where the price will go up. If they're affiliated somehow, not exactly them, but somehow they're related to them.

Without getting too explicit, do you know the actual cartels, the organizations that you work for? Um, last year's, yeah. Um, with what, What happened with them, it went south real bad and they stopped paying. There's a lot of greedy people that are on top that are actually on this side getting in trouble. You know, like they screwed up really bad. So it kind of started falling apart and then had met someone else. I didn't know they were with another organization.

I don't know who it is. I don't want to ask just better. I don't know. But this one is, it's small, but it's big, but it's simple. And it's just people. It's nothing else. There's no drugs. There's no.

That seems like the best way to do it, just stick with one product. Because your boss, you were telling me, your boss works for the head of the organization who lives in the U.S. Wow. Wow. So how many people do you think you alone moved last year and one year? Oh, man. In one sitting, one year. God, I don't want to say on camera.

It's a lot. It's a lot? It's a lot. Hundreds or more? Thousands? No, not thousands, no. I'd say no more. more than $1.50.

That's a good living, though. At that rate? That's like a well-paid lawyer. So last year it was only $1,000 a person because the guys that were above us that would just have us do the jobs, they were keeping the money and not paying us like the whole thing.

So they were getting paid what they get paid and they were taking our part as well. How did you get paid? Like, are you paid after the job is done? Do you take some up? front. How do you make sure you get your money? Well, last year it was real tricky. I mean, you know, doing like Walmart to Walmart or Western unions, you know, you can only do so much and then they start flagging you. I was having to get like a bunch of people's names, you know,

and have them do it. But after a while, like your friends don't want to do it. Like, no, you know, I've already done it twice for you. That's a lot. I don't want something to happen, which is understandable. Sometimes they would pay us cash up there, give us half up front, and then the other half whenever we finished the job. But it was really, real shady last year because a lot of times we wouldn't get paid. It was a pain in the ass, man, and just being told like, well, you got to wait, they're going to send it, they're going to send it. And sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't. We'd get a Western Union. And the shitty part is, as soon as we'd get it, they sent it two hours ago, and I'm headed to go try to try to.

and do it, they go and they cancel it. Oh, they cancel the money order? Yeah, so therefore I can't get the money and those people change their number, block numbers, supposedly, supposedly. So, um. Do you ever think about starting your own crew, like linking up with Mexicans on that side

and becoming the boss, like the guy that you work for? Hell no. No, man. I don't want to do any of that. I really don't even want to do any of that. really don't even want to do any of this. You know, it's... No matter how I look at it,

the world's going to look at it. It's human smuggling. Even though I'm not hiding them, I'm not doing it in cognitive. It's still smuggling, and it's illegal. So all these people that are coming across trying to seek asylum, if you even give them a ride to the damn grocery store,

the stupid fucking law enforcement And we'll get your ass for trying to traffic humans. What could you face if you got caught with those four people in the hotel room? What kind of time are you looking at? I don't know if there would be any time. Like, I'm pretty sure jailed. But, I mean, it's like, you know, say if it's not, it's not going to be a good chance to get them across because they've already been caught trying to go through.

So say they don't want to chance it no more. They just want to try to seek asylum here and stay here. So they have their family to send money and they're staying there. I mean, I don't see a problem with that, but if law enforcement would have come and knock down the door and find out, probably take me to jail and charge me for attempt a human smuggle. But it's just, I don't know, man. It's hard to say because if I'm attempting to smuggle someone,

It means that I'm trying to take them somewhere, but I'm not. I'm leaving them in a motel room with food, with clothes, their house, they're safe. So somebody else is coming to get them? You're not actually going to move them. Right. I don't move them anymore. I don't move anyone anymore. I wait for them on the other side and direct where they need to go.

Wow. So you don't pick them up or drive them anywhere? No. Oh, that's a great kid. Well, drive them, yes. I drive them once they're over. Okay, so you go pick them up from... So whoever grabs them off the road.

Mm-hmm. Okay, and then take them from there to the hotel room. Mm-hmm. Wow. So there seems, how many people do you think operate like you to move people to their final destination? I mean, it seems like there's so many people involved. So ones like me that take care of them and buy them clothes out of my own pocket, food and all that, not that many men, but that do the similar thing. quite a bit.

Quite a bit of people. Yeah. I mean, look, it seems like a better business than drugs. Like, certainly, if you got caught with four kilos of Coke, you're doing guaranteed time, right? But with them, it's like, yeah, look, it could be some time or it could be like, hey, they're asylum seekers. It seems like there's a lot more in mitigating circumstances. Do you pay attention to the politics?

Do you think, like, if some, like, if Trump gets back in next year, do you think you'll quit doing this because, you know, the laws might change. Like, what are your plans for the future? And how long do you see yourself doing this for? I don't see myself doing this much longer. I don't want to, man, because it's just too risky. I mean, yes, it's good money. I made good money.

A lot of it has gone back to them. So when their family's paying me, I pretty much turn it back into them, provide them clothes, especially if they have kids. Like, I mean, I make sure they're taken care of. But I don't want to do this any much longer. man, because I don't want to ever get in trouble.

I don't want to be taken away from my family. I don't want any of that. So even though I'm doing a good thing in God's eyes, the world's looking at me like, I am the cartel or part of them, and I'm not, like, I'm not part of them. I'm not, like, affiliated with anyone. There is someone who asks me and gives me work, but if I tell him no, he, uh,

He doesn't bust my balls anymore. He knows I'm trying to get out of it. So doing this, there's always going to be ways to get him across. Especially, like I say, with corrupted board patrol agents, man. Yeah. Home insecurity, whatever. That's never going to stop. Never going to stop.

And, you know, just the amount of ones that are affiliated with them, If the numbers really came out, they'll have to shut down the whole fucking bull patrol. Do you think guys like your boss, you know, the one that's directing everything, operations on this side of the border? Do you think they're the ones that approach border guards with bribes? Do you think it's people on the other side?

I'm fascinated to how that works. I know down in Texas, some other locations that I had, been at before, they had been visited by some people with some money. And I don't even know this because the Vortmature agent opened up his knock when he was drunk. He was talking about it. And I had no clue who he was.

And he just talked about how they came, they showed up at his house and had a briefcase full of money. and told him, you know, you let our people go by, you'll be taken care of. Wait a minute, wait a bit. So his house in the United States, some cartel guys showed up there, found out where he lived, a federal agent, and brought him a briefcase full of cash. Yeah, that's what he had claimed. That's wild. How much money was in the briefcase? I didn't ask him.

I wasn't asking him questions. I was just listening. He was just rambling on. So, I mean, I could say that it's, maybe it is true, maybe it's not. Maybe I'm sure he was paid, but I don't know how much exactly. If it's a briefcase and if he's, the way he was talking, I mean, what? Let's assume it's more than his salary. A lot more.

I know, I would assume it's like $100,000, $200,000, you know, something like that. But, yeah, he wouldn't say there's a couple people that were like, well, how much? And he was like, oh, if I told you, you'd just die on the floor right now. You know, you wouldn't say. So there's huge money in it. Yeah. There's huge money. If a couple of poor farmers from southern Mexico had to pay nine grand, you know, I'm sure there's people that pay $30,000, $40, $50,000.

Oh, yeah. It's such a huge economy. Last year, there's a couple of people that I got actually pretty close with, and I stayed in contact with them even today. And they had told me, you know, they had paid $15,000, $20,000 to get here. I'm like, God damn, like, you pick that much. And it really just depends where you live in Mexico. I'm not, I guess, further into Mexico, it's going to be a lot more, of course. And I guess just the location of the United States was going to cross.

I would assume price changes. What was the most memorable, like, where are most of the people that you smuggle from originally? A lot of them are coming from Jappas. A lot. So many from Chappas. Oh my gosh. Like, I mean, it's unbelievable. Like, how many? It's like, the amount of people that have come through with me, I'm like, like, fuck, there's still more of you guys? Like, I thought I brought everyone from Chappas already. But yeah, a lot of them come from deeper. Is there anybody that's not Mexican that you've taken? Oh, no, no, no, no. I have never dealt with that. I won't. There's been times where they've asked, you know, hey, we have some, some, uh, dark

that want to come across. You want to help out or there's been a couple of Chinese. Really? So why will you not take anybody who's not Mexican? Because the thing is, like, I don't look at a Mexican being a terrorist. I don't know if anyone else is a terrorist. I don't want to take that chance. I don't want to be bringing someone over

and then go and blow up something and kill people. I don't want to have that on me. Interesting. Even if they pay more, so I'm sure they do. Oh, yeah, they pay a lot. There was a... I don't think he was a... Maybe he was Taliban.

I don't know. I can't remember it. Like, it was from that origin of the country. He paid up to like $60,000 just to get across. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So the people you take, it seems like none of them are asylum seekers.

They're all here to get work. Or do some of them say, hey, you know what? I'm actually going to... I'm actually going to go turn myself in. and try to do it the legal way? There's been a couple that have thought about it, but I've never seen anyone actually go and turn themselves in. Yeah, these seem like just poor people that work.

They're very poor, man. They're very poor. And, you know, they have family already across the United States in the United States working, so they'll send them money to get them over there, just to get them away from the violence. You know, like, it's getting bad everywhere, and they want to escape that. So why don't they just seek asylum?

I don't know why. It seems like the news makes it seem like it's so easy, like it's an open border. Like anybody can say they're fleeing violence in their home countries and be let through and given money. Like that's what you hear on, especially on like conservative talk radio, Fox News. They say, look, they're giving these people $2,000 a month and a court date seven years from now. There's got to be some truth to that. There is some truth. So why would those kids not want to do that?

Why couldn't they say, hey, they're massacring people in Chiapas? Let me go turn myself in. Why risk all of this? Because the risk of them trying to come over, all they do is just get picked up and dump right back in Mexico. And all they have to do is just jump that fence right again. So it's much easier than going down. I'm pretty sure it's heartbreaking. If you were to go and try to seek asylum and they tell you no, and they don't get told why.

They'll be like, I'm sorry, but you don't fit the type of job. person we want to live in. So, sorry, but you can't come in. Even if they don't have a background, if they don't have nothing wrong with them, they get turned down. So their hopes of being able to live safe and free, go right down the drain, and it makes them angry. So they're like, fuck doing it the legal way. Why? I tried to and you turn me down. So I'm going to enter your country whether you like it or not. Oh, so that's interesting. So there is a risk even in turning yourself in as a migrant seeking asylum. There's definitely a risk. they'll be just put back.

Right. Okay. And plus, you know, as Luis explained to us, those asylum seekers don't work. They can't work. Yeah, they can't. Those guys have, I'm sure they have family that have been here a long time in North Carolina.

They probably have jobs lined up. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Okay. Yeah. I would argue you're doing the most important kind of smuggling because we need labor. We have a huge labor shortage in the U.S.

Americans are lazy. They think that they deserve, not Americans, but a lot of people just... Oh no, we're lazy, dude. They fucking fail. I'm a YouTuber. That's what I contribute. If they're going to work at, someone goes and applies at McDonald's or Taco Bell. They want to get paid a lot, and then they want to be the manager right away, you know, or a boss. They want to be a boss.

Like, come on, really? Like, you've got to start at the bottom of the chain. Work yourself up. Everybody does. I mean, yeah, Americans are lazy. There's been a time in my life where I was lazy and work. I mean, people will say you're being lazy now because you don't want to work. I do want to work.

But child support kicks my fucking ass. And I mean, if I go work like a target, I'm not going to be able to survive. I can't pay my house, can't pay my truck, can't pay my car, can't support my kids and support my child support. I can't afford that. So how does Americans, or, I mean, people who are in office, how do the stupid people in office think that, someone can live off like that. Work at McDonald's, work at Target. I mean, not everyone can go to school, get a degree, and being a doctor. Not everyone can do that. So what do you think you'll do next? Do you have a plan after this life is over? Oh, yeah. Like, I have, I work. I have my own real job,

but, um, what kind of work is it? That I can't disclose. Okay. I mean, it's legal. It's legal. But if I, if I were to, I mean, if there were anyone watching this, then they'll be like, oh, we know who that is. Because this seems like a lick. This seems like something that, you know, a white person or an American could do for three, four years, make half a million bucks and get out. That's what it could be, but money goes fast, man. Yeah. The first time when I was getting a lot of money, stuff I had paid and, I mean, how? Helping these people, I never thought about how much money I was spending.

I mean, I spent a lot of money on helping these people. It's their money that I'm helping them with. Their families pay me and I make sure I take care of them. Because when they go see their family, I don't want them smelling like shit and dirty and greasy. You know, like I want them looking clean and taking care of, especially when we're driving around town, someone looks inside the truck.

They see them all nice and clean. They're not going to suspect anything. You know, if they see my car and looks like a grease ball was thrown in there, then yeah, it's going to... How often do you brainstorm different ways to get them to the checkpoints? Now that you don't go through the checkpoints anymore, do you tell the drivers, like, give them tips? Like, hey, this could be a good way to disguise them? Yeah. Yeah, they'll ask me, like, hey, so how should I do it?

And I'll explain to them like, hey, there's a few ways you can do it. And I'll give them some pointers and, you know, you take what you want to do. I said, figure out a way how you want to do it. If you want to try to do it and be sneaky, figure out a way when the checkpoints are closed. And when I say close, they have just a green sign to just drive through. You don't have to stop. There's no one there. Is that like in the middle of the night?

No, actually, no, hell no. Not in the middle of night? They're always there. That's the worst time to go is the middle of the night. When do they do that? When do they shut down or put the green sign on? Just during the days, maybe late morning, afternoons. That's the times that they'll do it.

How long, for how long of a period? 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Do you think people have lookouts, people that are actually stationed somewhere that can see that? that'll get on a walkie-talkie and say, go, go, go? I heard that there was before, yeah. Like, last year that they were doing it, yeah, they had people like that. I've seen people do that. Are there any parts of the border that in really remote places, like West,

you know, New Mexico, way out there in the desert, Arizona, that don't have a wall, like gaps in the wall? We always hear about that. I know like in New Mexico there's a lot of spots that have trapped doors on the fence, underneath the fence.

That's how they go through as far as not having a fence up. I haven't seen anything. I don't go down there. I don't mess with that area. That's not my forte. I ask because again, in the mainstream media, we're kind of led to believe

that there's huge gaps and missing pieces of this wall, right? Like Trump says build the wall. But, I don't know, it seems like the wall is mostly there. Actually, you know what? Now that you mention it in Texas, there's a lot of points over there that have no wall. Just the river.

Really? Just the river. And it's dry all the time. So it's easy for them to walk. Or they could just have a little canoe, canoe their asses right over, And get on the land, get picked up and head out. Yeah, I guess haven't they started to put, like, floating balloons?

Right, Luis? They're putting, like, big orange balloons in the river to stop people from taking rafts over? Yeah, in East Texas, they got that. Right. Yeah. I wonder if that's a... It's just a small part of the river, right?

It's literally one state probably to Mexico, the Philippines. Right. The very east. I wonder if that's a good place. Is that a pretty active crossing place? It's a pretty active, yes. Probably the first one just after, I mean, that should be the first one and then they'll pass it. Yeah.

On what they call getaways, right? Right, right. Wow. Yeah, so it seems like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. People will make it over. Oh, yeah. There's no stopping that.

Because they put up a wall, oh, great, go ahead. Yeah. There's still tunnels. There's still cuts in the fence where you can't tell unless you go push a little button and it'll opens up and it blows law enforcement's mind. So you get people like with welding material in the middle of the night that will run up to certain points and cut out pieces of the fence, but then be able to like, what, like stick it back on to where you can remove it really easily?

Yeah, pretty much. I don't know what time of the day or night. Like, I don't know. Is that the basic way that it's done? Yeah. Yeah. Just like even if they have like a plasma cutter, little portable ones. that they can carry, just go cut, do it real quick before.

Right. They have all the technology over there in Mexico, too, man. All these guys have technology that are either as good as, what law enforcement has, or even better. So they can tell when there's no one around. Yeah. And it's good. They have radar.

They have, you know, night vision. They have all that. They have everything. So it sounds like it's much more, it's very organized over here, but it sounds like it's even more organized on that side. Because in order to be able to have that kind of infrastructure, that takes a big cartel. That takes a lot of money in a big operation.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Over there, they're way more organized than I mean. They have the resources, too. You know, here, you can get resources, but somehow some way, man, Americans always fuck up and lead paper trails. And they don't know how to be secretive about it. They don't know how to keep their mouth shut. They always talk about it.

Or film it. You're filming it? Oh, man. What a life. Do you know any other people that have, Americans that have gone into this business? Yeah, I know quite a bit of other ones. A few of them have gone caught.

Do they do any time? You know what? I haven't seen them. I would assume they were doing time because of how much they got in trouble for, like the times they got in trouble. I would assume, I haven't heard from them.

That at one point, some that had been partnered with me when they got in trouble with them and got cut off or they got caught, couldn't do no more. They tried to call me and threaten me that if I don't pay them, you know, they're going to tell me. And I never paid them. I said, you don't tell me to go ahead, go for it. And do what you got to do.

But I'm not paying you guys shit. Are you, you know, you obviously keep a good business. You seem like you do honest business. But do you ever worry about, like, reprisals? Do you ever worry that somebody's going to come and try to kill you from the organization? No, I don't. I don't worry about that. I don't think I should.

Like, I'm not a big player in that game. I'm not a part of the organization. I do help out with someone who is a part of the organization. And that guy, he, you know, he looks out for me and... But you mentioned, like, even people like you, you know, freelancers, Americans, if you guys fuck up, you can get killed. Yeah, but I fucked up and did something stupid. Like, if I got in trouble and ratted on everyone, then yeah, like, they'll send people after him.

But, I mean, like, fucking up, too. Like, if I get caught crossing them or driving, them like I mean they're not going to kill you that's just no, that's what happens in business. As long as I don't say anything

right then no like even if I did time like they're not going to kill me for that like yeah they made it clear they told me a few things

like you you just telling us we're gonna fucking kill you if you keep money if we pay you and you don't deliver and just say fuck you

and just ignore us yeah we'll kill you and is that the speech they give you when you first start working no no no not at all

speech was like just you know let me help you out let me help you out we take care of you you're good you only work with me

you don't worry about no one else Do you speak Spanish? Not too good I can get by It doesn't seem to slow you down though No so much Like people from Chappas

man Their dialect is so different And there's like seven languages Over there So sometimes they're Spanish sounds like Chinese to me. Yeah, their Spanish is like not even fluent Spanish. That's not even their first language.

Yeah, exactly. And so it's very, very, very, if I try to, like, get on my phone and look for like an app that can translate, sometimes, like, people with Wadis, or, like, closer to Wadis, they understand it. People that are further in Mexico, their Spanish is more proper. Yeah.

Way more proper. Yeah. And they don't understand it sometimes when, so. it's hard to get by and you have to kind of like do like hand gestures, you know, like you, hungry, papa, food, comida, whatever, you know.

Do you know the person that's when they get moved, whether that's tonight, tomorrow this week, do you know the person that's going to move them through the checkpoint? Does anybody know each other or do they try to keep all the players separate? No, sometimes they know each other

because it's a small town. Yeah. You know, so everyone knows everyone. Do you know who's coming to get them? No, I don't know. Like, sometimes they'll tell me like, hey, you know, so-and-so is going to go get them. Like, if they say their name is because it's like, oh, that person is going to pick him up, when did he start doing pickups?

I thought he was just, you know, like just driving him from up north to the East Coast. And he's like, oh, well, we switch it up a bit. When they get through the checkpoint, if they get through the checkpoint, how are they going to get to North Carolina? So once they do, they'll go up north, say like up in New Mexico. They'll go Albuquerque's a hotspot, Santa Fe, get them over there, whoever's going to pick them up, meets them there, gets them, and then they head east or west.

So there's a new driver that will get them. Right. So they're in a passenger car. They're going just in a car. They're not going in a flatbed truck. It's just going to be in a... Yeah, they go on vehicles. They're not hidden.

They don't go like how you see, like a car. all these big operations on the news where there's 50 people put in a semi-trailers, no, nothing like that. Does that still happen? I'm pretty sure, man. I'm pretty sure. Because every now and then you hear about, yeah, these horrendous stories of a bunch of people that, you know, died of heat stroke because they were hidden in, you know, yeah, like a tractor trailer

or, you know, something like that. When that happens, and maybe Luis could shed light on it too. Who's behind that? That's such a huge operation. That's the trailer trucks Yeah, yeah, when they're bringing over 30, 40 people at a time Yeah, there's this is very mom and pop Like, how do you go from 4 to 40?

This seems like mom and pop, The thing is like it's well organized as we talked yesterday Like it's just like split Those huge operations happen most Mostly on eastern Texas with the Cartel del Golfo, right? Those guys usually have a tighter control of the highways and all that stuff And they're a bit more probably careless

You know, they literally see them as merchandise and they just want to move a bunch of them at the same time instead of just putting up, you know, two or three at a time and that kind of stuff. They're just brutal. That's just how they roll. So it's just different business models for different, depending on the culture of the organization.

Yeah, exactly. Think about this, like the 72 migrants that were killed and burned the same fucking place, it happened in that area at the hands of the Catel de Golfo, right? Like probably 10 years ago, around 10 years ago. Right. We have never had something like that here in this region. So it's different organizations handling different ways of smuggling people.

And what was behind that, by the way? It was a Captain Delolvo. But for what purpose? Because apparently they, I don't know, something happened. Like they didn't pay, a lot of them they didn't pay, whatever. They just killed all of them and then set them on fire. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

It's called a San Fernando massacre. You can find. Oh, that was the ones in the bus. Exactly. So I wonder if does that, does that? that hurt business overall? Because, you know, these people, even, you know, people from Chiapas, poor farmers, they have a choice about who they deal with. I'm sure they're fooled a lot. Exactly. I mean, imagine that. Like, if it's hard for an American to understand how an organization

works and which territory, they work or they do their business for someone from a small community in Chiapas or in Venezuela or Panama, it's absolutely confusing. They don't even know. I mean, It's not that they ask, you know, like, hey, are you a cartel del Polo or the Quarres? Like, I have a choice. They just ask someone for a contact, right? And how much is it? You move my family, so I'll go with you.

Yeah, they don't really know. And nobody talks like that. That's what I've noticed. Nobody says, I'm with the cartel de Guelho. Obviously. Like, people don't talk like that. So they don't really know and don't really have a choice. They don't really ask.

These guys told us, like, no, we don't ask. Because why will you ask, right? Probably face a lot more trouble if you're. were asking questions, right? This is the last question I want to ask you. Thank you, Louise. Have you heard any, because you know, you talk with these people that you move and that you hold?

Have you heard any, like, horror stories from their trip up through Mexico? Oh, yeah. Like, last year, I don't know how many people I had saved. Like, there's this one woman, she was on the, in Sunland Park. She had came, like, she crossed during the day, and she was hiding under a bridge. something like that yeah and i got a call to go pick her up picked her up the girl was bloodied i mean clothes were ripped like i mean she like the way she jumped from down the bridge up on the road and get on my truck like i thought to me it felt like there's eyes everywhere but there was no one

around and when she got on the truck she like i mean she knew right away she dropped herself on the seat just laid back all the way and just like stayed quiet i just drove like nothing wait till i got you know further in El Paso and stopped somewhere and then they tried asking her what happened what's going on and she had escaped like she was beaten and raped some people had held her against her well not even they weren't organization material they were just predators other migrants oh wow yeah oh and so and it happens there's migrants that can't get the asylum so they just lurk around here and trying to find a way to get across or steal, murder, rape, whatever.

But I've heard a lot of horror stories, and there's a lot of people that I've seen that had, like, scars on them, like on their face. There's one that had a big old. He actually was able to get asylum. And I don't know why, but he got the asylum, and his family didn't, which was really, really fucked up.

And so he crossed him over, and I had seen them. They were out in Las Cruces, actually. And I saw him holding a sign one day just looking for, you know, asking for food. And it was him, a little two-year-old and two teenagers, his wife, his mother-in-law. And no one was like, I kind of stopped and watched them. And no one was helping him. No one would stop.

And even like the little teenage kids, you know, they're taking a sign and waving at cars, like trying to get something. And no one would stop. Nobody, man. No one would roll down the window. and at least acknowledge, sorry, I don't have money, I only have a credit card. No one. So I went over there to him and I drove off somewhere and I told him to just walk over here and come talk to me, try to figure out what's going on.

So he told me that he was able to get the asylum to come over here, but his family couldn't. He escaped El Salvador. He had his whole, like, I mean, machete, a machete, just right. across his face, I mean, bad bad's car from MS-13. Yeah. He had said that they were trying to extort him many times, and last time, No, got hurt, so they were able to come over here. And he had to bring his family because they wouldn't let him.

So, I mean, him telling that story was really horrible. I mean, it was, man, bad. So what is your overall takeaway, like, the way that you fit into this really kind of messy world? How does that make you feel? Because it sounds like you're conflicted. You try to do good in a world that's very bad. Do you feel guilt over this? I feel guilt as far as putting it out there

that I could take the chance of getting in trouble and being taken away from my family. That's the only guilt I feel. I don't feel guilty for, you know, like bringing... Not even bringing... I don't bring anyone over. helping people. And again, like I said, the world, the government will never, ever, ever say, well, you're helping them, you're trying. So, you know what, we'll give you a break, just don't do it again.

They won't do that. They're like, you know what, you're helping people? You want me to pay taxes? I'll pay taxes. I'll fucking pay it. No problem. But don't, don't do this to people that really need it. You know, like, I mean, they're trying to come over here because Mexico, no one's helping them over there. the government's really corruptional over there So when families are trying to get help And they're getting turned down by them Their own people know So they come over here because America we help everybody

We help every fucking person We'll help you know Japanese will help people that Come from other countries But it seems like when it's Mexicans We're like well hold up You know what I know we're allies with you but we don't want to help too much of you guys

That's what it really seems like Because they have a lot of like I mean We see a lot of that shit that's going on down there. And for as many people as you see around the border, on the news, they're all there. You see little kids. Like, how the fuck can the government see kids? And just like, I'm sorry, but you can't come.

Like, I don't know what you want to do. I know it's going to be freezing tonight, but, you know, I hope, God bless you guys. I hope something helps. You know, you get that. Come on, man. It sucks, man. You can't trust anyone over there. How much longer do you think you'll be doing this?

Do you have a time frame? or do you have like a set amount of money? Like you're like, I'm going to get out? Um, no, I don't have a set of money set aside. I mean, I feel like if I did and I got caught and they found it, well, for one, they fucking take it. Yeah. And it could be used against me.

But, I mean, I have everything paid off, like everything, except, you know, the couple child sports that I have. But everything else is paid off. Everything. So I don't have to worry about, you know, like anything really it's just oh so you've really utilized this this game made it it work for yourself yeah so at what point do you think you'll say yeah I'm out really really soon now really soon all right it's it's getting it's getting worse and like as you said

like if Trump were become president again you know things are going to get worse it's going to get really worse I mean he has some good intentions he has some bad intentions he has some bad you know, but when it comes down to the border, like, nothing is ever going to be good. No. No. And this will never stop. It's never going to stop, like never. Not until those countries fix themselves and, you know, it'd be a long time before that happens.

Our government needs to stop, you know, helping the cartels as much as they got to stop helping themselves. So, I mean, we're in it as much. as they are. One thing's for certain. When you get out of this game, start a YouTube channel. Thanks, man.