The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Queen Of Fraud Reveals Running Multi-Million Dollar Embezzlement Scheme, Genius Credit Card Scams

Episode Date: December 28, 2025

In this explosive episode of The Connect, Johnny sits down with Danesa White, better known as Bella Barcode — a former Oakland hustler who built a multi-million-dollar fraud and jewelry embezzlement operation before the age of 21. Raised in the heart of the Bay Area hustle, Danesa breaks down how she went from boosting clothes as a teenager to running sophisticated bank fraud, credit card approval schemes, and high-end jewelry thefts across all 50 states. At her peak, she was clearing hundreds of thousands of dollars a day, selling stolen diamonds, watches, and luxury goods to NFL players and major drug dealers — all while living a jet-set lifestyle that included Dubai, Miami, New York, and beyond. -In this raw, unfiltered conversation, Bella Barcode explains: -How early-2000s bank and credit card fraud actually worked -How jewelry stores could be forced into approving six-figure purchases -The psychology of confidence, misdirection, and playing the role -The moment everything collapsed — arrests, probation violations, and a federal case -Serving 7 years in federal prison and what women’s prison is really like -Why she finally chose to tell her story — and the price that came with it Today, Danesa has turned her life around and is inspiring others through her autobiography Recidivism: Beauty Before Bars, proving that survival, accountability, and redemption are possible — even after losing everything. This is one of the most detailed breakdowns of white-collar street crime ever told on the podcast — and a powerful cautionary tale about how fast money can disappear just as quickly as it comes. Go Support Danesa! Website: https://www.itsbellabarcode.com/ Book: https://a.co/d/ajXBp6y IG: https://www.instagram.com/itsbellabarcode_/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bellabarcode Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bella.barcode This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: PrizePicks! Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CONNECT and use code CONNECT and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Rocket Money! Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to https://rocketmoney.com/connect today. Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Intro & Guest Overview 01:27 Life in Oakland & Family Background 03:35 First Hustles and Growing Up 07:46 Mastering the Bank Fraud Game 13:30 Taking the Hustle Nationwide 20:36 Scaling Up: Diamonds & High-End Stores 25:00 Inside the Diamond Game 34:24 Living Large: Lifestyle & Risks 36:33 Today's Sponsors 39:26 Making Mistakes & Legal Scrapes 43:00 Jewelry Licks & Giant Scores 50:54 How the Scam Actually Worked 55:00 The Downfall: Getting Caught 01:02:08 Federal Prison & Doing Time 01:13:01 Coming Home: Reentry & Building Again 01:18:45 Personal Growth & Female Bosses 01:24:48 Redemption: New Career & Book 01:28:01 Reflections & Life Lessons Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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They used to love to see me coming. They knowing I was going to spend some money, hundreds and thousands. As fast as it was coming, as quick as it was going. 24-hour shopping is 320,000. You can't double back. You double back, you're going down. They searched the car and everything was on us. The diamonds, the merchandise, everything.

My guest today is Denisa White, aka Bella Barcode. Denisa is a former hood superstar who ran a multi-million dollar a year embezzlement ring when she was only 19 years old. and raised in Oakland, California, Denisa was put on to bank fraud when she was just a teenager. By the time she was 21, she was making millions of dollars a month embezzling jewelry and diamonds from high-end stores all over the country. She would then turn around and resell the merchandise to wealthy clientele, including NFL football players and big-time drug dealers.

This chick was killing it. She eventually took a fall and spent the next seven years in federal prison. But today, she is thriving, hustling and making money legally. And she's inspiring people with her autobiography, recidivism, beauty before bars. You can get it on Amazon or on her website. It's Bella Barcode.com. And of course, follow her on social media. This is a sexy episode, you guys, and a perfect way to end 2025.

Happy New Year. Thank you for watching. Now enjoy Danisa White, aka Bella Barcode right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. See, if you're a tourist and you park your car in San Francisco. You may not leave any bellic. No, no. If they see anything, you have a high probability of getting your window smash. No, seriously. It's sad. Yeah, it is sad. Yeah. But that's the bay, you know. The drugs dry up. And so, you know, the streets have moved to another hustle. Whatever's winning. Whatever's making money. So why did you choose to tell your story? My 21-year-old is the reason why I told my story. He was like, mom, you never know what impact you might have on somebody else's life.

Mind you, I've been home since 2012. I wrote this book while I was incarcerated. Wow. And he was like, I think you should do it. And my first podcast was Trapping Anonymous. And it went viral and I got so scared, Johnny. I was like, no, I can't do it. I shut down.

Like, totally. Everybody was reaching out. Trapping American gangster, I denied them. American Gangster from BET? I denied them. They wanted my story so bad. I denied them. And then after they reached out, I was just like, I can't do it.

Don Deva reached out. I was like, yeah, I can't do it. You feel like you're ashamed of your past? I used to be. I used to be. Yeah. Not no more. Yeah.

No, now it's, now the game is to be sold. Exactly. But that's not what the viewers say. They're like, why is she up there? And everybody seems to think that I got paid for all these podcasts. And that's the crazy thing about it. No. I feel like, I feel like God had a.

a calling on my life for me to tell my story. Without reaping benefits. Again, like, you never know, like, my story. Like, I get so many DMs, like, you changed my life. Like, thank you for telling your story. Like, even though I've never been in a situation like that, we appreciate your authenticity, you know? Yeah, the comments is where you see the hate in public, but in private and the DMs,

that's where you know that, okay, you've actually touched reasonable people. Exactly. The retards are the loudest. Exactly. So don't mind them at all. Y'all don't even know me, but okay. Exactly. So, yeah.

Well, we're about to get to know you. So grew up in Oakland. Grew up in Oakland, California. And you're from the Bay Area. The Bay Area. I mean, we talked about it off pod, but it's just the land of the hustle. The land of the hustle. And you came up.

Did you have a family of hustlers? What was family life like? My grandmother was a queen pen. My father, he used to run with the Black Panthers. Well, I just found out that he was a drug dealer because I didn't know that. I was young when he passed away and I was young when he was, you know, I was young. I spent my younger years thinking that he just rode with the Black Panthers, not knowing that he was a drug dealer. But I just found that out through my mom.

Wow. Yeah. He probably was a Panther. I'm sure he was. But then those guys needed to get paid and, you know, Huey Newton spun out and, you know, the drugs basically. He took them down. Right. You know.

And then my mom was a booster. And she always kept a job, though. We always had a roof over our head. Like, we didn't have the white picket fence, but we always had food on the table. She, my, they took care of us the best they can, you know? Grandma was a queen bin? Yeah. What does that mean?

So we used to think she was selling iceies. She was selling crack. Well, they used to call her a candy lady. Like, she was selling icies and candy, you know, a little 25, You know, the little penny candy. But we was thinking that, okay, like, Granny just slinging iced and candy, no. She was slinging crack cocaine. Wow.

Yeah. And the Acorn Projects. I've heard of the Acorn Projects. A lot of Bay Area rap. Yeah. Too short. Yeah, exactly. So she was like, I mean, how does a grandma?

I mean, I guess she was probably a young grandma, but how does that work? She's, like, getting powder and cooking it up. and giving it to crack dealers? No, she's selling it. She's just selling it out of her. People, like, she would sell that and prescription drugs. Yeah.

Wow. Wow. And then your mom, was she also using crack? Like, did you have family that was on crack? I asked my mother when I was younger, like in the, I asked her, how did she get addicted to drugs? And she said, because she used to run plays for her mom.

Run plays? Yeah. She said, you know, go take the pills and the crack to people who buy it. and that's how she got addicted. Yeah. Yeah. Your grandma probably didn't see that coming.

No. I'm sure she felt terrible about that in hindsight. Yeah. Wow. So your mom was a user or an addict when you were a child? Yeah, she was an addict. She's been an addict on my life. But she was a functional addict.

Like we always, she always kept a roof over. I had food on the table. She always worked jobs. She had three jobs. Wow. Yeah. She was a functional addict. Yeah.

There were a lot of functional addicts. That's what the person. propaganda didn't tell people was that not defending crack, but, you know, people, a lot of people have been smoking for decades and getting by at least, you know, probably not thriving, but, you know, I mean, half of these mayors of the cities get caught smoking crack. Yeah, snoring coke. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Right. Wow. Yeah. So did you sell drugs as a kid? No. When did you get into, you know, hustling? What was your first hustle, legal or illegal? I used to steal out of the gap.

Out of the gap? Yeah, when I was in high school. Yeah. Yeah. That's normal. That's every high school girl. Okay. I used to go to school dressing like a lawyer.

They used to be like, Denise, like, what? Why are you dressed like that button of shirts with, what trousers on, you know? So you just, you just stole from the gap. to get fly to go to school. Just to be fly. I always, when it comes to like dressing up, getting fly, that's me.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Never follow trends. I said my own trend. No, you're a beautiful, stylish woman. Thank you. When did it start becoming something you could make money off of?

So that didn't start until I was about like 19. I met a young lady. And first I was like nervous. Like, I'm not, you know, this is a big deal. But I met a young lady. They call her. smooch and she was like, do you want to go make some money in five minutes? I was like, this got to be a gimmick. Like, you know, but she was like, no, call me. So it took a minute

for me to reach out to her. So I finally reached out to her. And she was like, yeah, she told me everything that I was going to be doing. And from the rest was history. Wow. So what was the, what was the, what era, the 90s or the 2000s? Yeah, it's in the 90s. Let's clarify that. Right. So things have changed a little bit. The frauds have evolved. But this is still pretty sophisticated for the 90s. Right.

So if you go ahead, because I know nothing about this, I'm fascinated by this. So it's called the approval. Well, I call it the approval game. And I call the banks the candy store. So you have a credit card and ID. And I started off using my own stuff, even though my car didn't work. You go in there, you get a cash advance for $8,500. Your credit card decline.

instead of you contacting your bank, you contacting your co-conspiracy, which is her, in a car, and she's acting like she's the bank. You're calling the Dallina 1-800 number. Yeah. Thank you for calling Visa Murder. Services.

Sarah can get your account, no, police expiration date, name as it appears on the card. The teller give, that we give the teller the information. And for security purposes, can I get the last four digits of your social and sometimes they'll be like,

do you have a pen on your car, on your account? You give them a pen? And they go, can I speak with the teller? the teller get on the phone with the merchant, which is my co-conspirator. And she's like, hi, this is Nancy with Visa Merchant Services. Can I get your Visa Merchant number? And by that time, she's outside, but we already know, she already know what bank we're in.

So the teller, the merchant to give her, well, the teller give her the merchant number. And she'll be like, oh, so you're in a Bank of America that's located on such and such and such. So ding-don, they already think, oh, yeah, this is a real live Visa Merchant Service provider. Right. So she asked for all the information, the customer my information, and then she verified, and then my co-conspirators say, can I place you on a brief hold while I verify funds in Ms. Banks account? Yeah.

And then she gave back on the phone. I'm showing that funds are available in Ms. Banks account. Can I go ahead and give you a voice authorization code? Give her an authorization code. And sometimes they'll ask, she'll ask them to do she need assistance in which terminal she has. She's like, oh, I have an FD-150. and then my co-conspirator know how to put it through the FD150 and she's short tell her how to put it through and a receipt just pop up I leave out with my $8,500.

Now, and is your co-D, is she on a cell phone? Yeah, she's on a cell phone. Like in the parking lot. Wow. Okay. How does, so just to reiterate, you go in there and you went in there with your own ID, your real ID first. Yeah, my real ID. And then you have a, like a legit card.

Like it's like Visa or Mastercard or something? Make sure it has a Visa logo. Yeah. And it's a cash advance card? No, it's not a cash advance card. It's a regular credit card. Okay, I see. Oh, right, but you can get cash.

Cash off of it. That's right. Oh, so it doesn't have to be tied. But how does that work, though? Because the funds get withdrawn from that particular bank. So where do they think they're getting their money from? They think they're getting that money from their bank because they think who's ever on that line is the bank. It's Capital One. Okay. Okay. So she would, Capital One was an example of a merchant

service provider that she was pretending to be. Wow. And did she put on like an Indian? Did she try to sound like an Indian or something? No, she sounded exactly like I'm saying right now. Like a black girl. But that's what you get when you call customer service. It's either an Indian dude or it's a beautiful black woman, you know, who's kind of got an attitude, but it's also kind of sweet. Right. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So you just walked out of there. Were you nervous your first time? No. I was like big-headed.

Like, okay, this is it. Yeah. And then we went from that one to five different more. In a day. In a day. Holy shit. Yeah. That's one like, remember Washington Mutual?

Yeah. That's when Washington Mutual was big. Well, you put them out of business because they haven't been around in about 20 years. Absolutely not, Johnny. Wow. So, I mean, you could clear $40,000. in a day doing this. What was your cut?

Half. She played fair. Wow. That's a no-brainer. No-brainer. I mean, you got to sell seven, eight bricks wholesale to make 20 grand in a day. You know what I mean? So this is a much better.

No, I don't know what you mean because I'm never so drugs. I know what I mean. Wow. Was anybody else in, you know, your peer group doing this? It was a lot of us. Yeah. Did you put your home girls on the game or is this just, was this just already part of the culture? It was already part of a culture because it was a young lady who worked inside of a bank who actually came up with a game.

No shit. Yeah. Wow. She's actually, she actually the one who got on American Gangster. Okay. Yeah. Shout out to VH. Yeah.

Wow. Wow. So how did that evolve? How did this like basic, you know, cash advance from a car? fraud. How did that, how did you grow that? We'll pick a state on the map and go. Right. So you go out town now. So you don't return to the same bank. No. Obviously. You can't double back. You double back. You're going down. Now, does that, when do you think that bank finds out? I say give it a weak, give or take. Okay. Yeah. And what tips them off because they don't? Because eventually they don't

get paid. They don't get paid. If you don't collect a picture of the person ID and credit. card, you're not getting paid for it. Right. Right. So now if you, I don't know if you're aware, but now like some like places, even like, companies take pictures of your credit card ID. For sure. For sure.

So they, for insurance purposes. Right. So they can collect on it from insurance if it is fraud. If it come back. Right. Well, no, I have a picture of the person credit card ID, but sometimes that don't matter because it's a fake ID. You might have a fake ID, you know?

Right. Now, did you eventually get a fake ID? Yeah, eventually I started getting fake IDs made by the Mexican. Okay, were they good? Yeah, he did a good job. He used to be on East 14th, doing them in minutes and hours. Like, you know, it's fast. And then we started using prepaid cards.

It just got, it just became so easy. Like, we used prepaid visa cards. Okay. What was the difference between those? Why was that easier than using credit cards? Because you're not using your real stuff. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Okay. So was the system basically the same, though? you go in with a fake ID, you say, hey, I want to take out. What was the most you took out at a time? Well, it depends. Like, it depends on the merchant. Like, I mean, the teller, like, if I feel comfortable. I go from 85 to 95.

You can't never go over 10,000. That's a red flag. Right. Of course. Yeah. Of course. So you guys would shoot out of town and go to a different state. Where did you go?

Wherever. Like, we look on map. We go to Wisconsin's, Wyoming, Nebraska. Minnesota. Wow. Yeah. Everywhere but Alaska. We never been to Alaska.

Alaska was like depressing. Yeah. We've been there, but it was just too depressing. You know, it's like late. It's never, no sun or something over there. Half the year it's dark, yeah. Yeah. So.

Well, now, were you scared to go to a place like Wyoming where there's not a lot of black people? No. And you could maybe, no. That's the best. Okay. You have to have confidence, Johnny. Yeah, I don't have that.

Yes, you do. I couldn't be a fraud guy. The most fraud I ever did was buy beer with a fake ID. Oh, okay, okay, so how many, you go to Minnesota, how many banks do you hit before you bounce? I would say there probably like a couple of days to a week, not longer, no longer than a week. And you're really working.

Mm-hmm. We're going stores too. It wasn't just the banks. It was like we'll go shopping, Louis Vuitton, high-end stores, Hermes, Chanel. Yeah, same operation. But why would you be withdrawing money from... We wouldn't withdraw money. We'll shop.

Okay. Yeah. Can you explain that, please? So we were just going there and buy two Chanel bags and our credit card decline. He was like, oh, my God, that's absurd. My credit card decline? Me, I'm calm down. It's probably for security purposes.

You know you put on this whole act because you're basically in character right now. Yeah. No worries. Just contact your bank. So we'll contact our bank. Same thing. After they get verified information. the, they give them authorization code, and the card go right through.

We leave out with our Chanel bags. But how does that work? Because you're not trying to get cash. You're trying to use a card. But that's got to be a little more sophisticated, though, because you're using a card that doesn't work, right? So how does the merchant get that card to go through if it's not? She's on the phone with the co-conspirator. I get that.

But how, but you're using a pre-pocket. paid card. So how that doesn't have any money on it. Oh, so you want to know the depths. Yeah. So basically it depends on whatever system they have. They go offline. So if they're going offline, their terminal is offline. So it's a forced sale transaction. So they're forcing a sale to go in. Oh my God. Yeah. The merchant is. I had no idea they could do that. Yeah. Even if there's no money on the car. You got to think it's no Wi-Fi. They're not on, it's offline. Right. So, yeah.

Back in the day when we were doing it, they had the old school knucklebuster. Remember the carbon copy? Yeah. That was the best. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my God. So even like Chanel and Hermes were using the knucklebuster in the late 90s?

Wow. Wow. So you can force a sale if the merchant can force it. It's like a receipt. They just write down authorization number where it says authorization number. If you ever looked at your receipt, let me see if I have. That's fire. Let's see if I have.

Yo, I should have. But, yo, I ain't shit. I was trying to ship weed all over the country. I should have been stealing. Okay, so you see right here, say, authorization code? Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local total wine and more to grab a great bottle to share. With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy.

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Yes, authorization code. Yeah, that's the code. I can use that code over and over again and it'll go through. Wow. So you could give this to your girl, the phone. No, she'll give it to the teller. And then the teller calls, they talk to each other.

That's unbelievable. And that would still work to this day. That would still work. People are still doing it to this day. That's why I got a lot of backlash from people where I'm from. They were like, but who cares? I'm telling my story. Well, I talked to Matt Cox, you know, when I had him on my podcast.

And he said in many ways, fraud has become easier if you know what you're doing because of because of technology. It's not, in certain ways it's a lot harder, but in some ways it's actually, it's actually much easier to hide who you are. It's not worth it, guys. No, it's definitely not worth it. But, no, we don't encourage anybody to emulate what they see on this podcast. Right.

Wow. So you could go in and you could force a sale of two Gucci bags or Mez bags, whatever. And then you sell them? No, I keep the, we shop. Now, when it comes to jury, that was a different story. Oh, really? Yeah. Ah.

So I, like, eventually branched off because it started getting hot in the candy store, so I started doing jury. Okay. Well, how was it getting hot? Everybody was doing it. Okay. It was the whole crew, it was a crew of us, like five crews. Wow.

Yeah. Holy shit. There's only 52 states, right? 52 or 53. There's 50 states. Yeah, 50 states. But there's also Puerto Rico. Did you guys go to Puerto Rico?

I never been to Puerto Rico. Okay. So you left them alone. Yeah. Those poor people. Oh my God. So did you hit, did you hit every state? I hit every state. Besides Alaska. Besides Alaska. Wow. Wow. Okay. So did you, so you made hundreds of thousands of dollars with this woman?

Millions. Eventually, I branched off and got my own crew. Okay. Yeah. So you were a millionaire by the time you were in your early 20s? Wow. And just as fast as it was going, Johnny, as quick as it was, as fast as it was coming, as it was going. You were fucking it off?

Yeah, I was a, I don't know, I'm the type of friend, partner. Like, I want us all to win and I want us all to shine. So that's how it was. Like, we all go out to shine. You needed me in your life. Yeah. I was a people's pleaser back then. We would have, I would have invested it for you.

We would have stashed a lot of it. Anyways, what are you going to do? Say, LaV. So you're going to do. were spending it living in the high life. Mm-hmm. We was traveling across the world. Really?

Mm-hmm. You and your girls? Yeah. Where are you guys going? Mexico, Dubai, like, everywhere. Dubai. And this was like in before people even... I never went.

And see, I was always scared to like hit foreign countries because I'm like, they go get up, we go get out there. They go be speaking another language. Like, we ain't going to know what they're saying. Well, they'll cut your hands off or something over there. Really? I mean, in certain Gulf states, yeah, they catch you stealing. It's still like old world.

Yeah, they don't. don't play that shit. Oh, yeah. Um, but it's, this is before people, like, it was hip to go to Dubai, like young black girls are, right, are fucking traveling like kingpins. Wow. Yeah. Did your family obviously see what's going on? They knew. They knew what the hustle was. No, they didn't know what it was, but they knew. Like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But you're, well, whatever, you're doing your thing at this point. Yeah. And your dad's not there. My dad passed when I was 11. Oh, what happened to him? He had cancer.

He had lung cancer. That's why I hate smoke, cigarette smoke. I hate all that, I don't like none of that stuff. And you didn't smoke weed or party or anything like that? We partied, but drugs, no. My whole family was addicted to alcohol and drugs, so that wasn't on my to-do list. Okay, so that's good. So you avoided that mostly, right?

Okay, so what, when did you split off? How far into doing this did you split off to do your own thing? I would say a year and a half maybe I was, you know, after a year and a half. An incident occurred when we were in Cleveland, Ohio. Well, we was in high park. It's outside of Cleveland, Ohio. I don't know. It's a nice area.

Yeah. The police station is right behind the Kroger's wherever we was at. So we vowed to never go inside banks that's inside of a grocery store, but we've been greedy. Oh, why, why is that? I don't know why we vowed to not do it. Because there's only one way in and one way out. Uh-huh.

You know? Okay, so you had contingency plans. We should never go, our glassed-up banks. And the bank was glassed up, and it was inside of a grocery store, two no-nows. Okay, so if there's glass in front of you and the teller, is that because they can take, keep your ID? Yeah, they can keep your ID and credit card. Okay. Yeah.

And you could, yeah, all right, fair enough. So what was the plan if they ever did that just to run out? Yeah, just to leave. Okay. It's your face, but it's a different name on there. Right. So you went in, you broke your rule. What happened?

They called the police. The police was coming in. I was running out. They gave you my money. And I was running out. I had like this little epi leather Louis Vuitton bag and I had the money in there. And when I was running, the money came out. And Augusta Mary and turned the money in while I was sitting in a police station.

I'm like, is she crazy? But like you said, it's a nice area. Right. Okay, so you got gaffled up. Yeah. And she left. And the young lady, smooed, she left. Okay.

She didn't come bomb me out or nothing. Fuck. So after that, it was like... That ruined our relationship, yeah. Were they able to put a case on you? I actually paid the judge then and got away with it, yeah. Stop it. I gave a judge five grand, yeah, and it got...

So you had your lawyer pay the judge? Yeah. I don't know what happened to the case is gone. Wow. Yeah. It's like, not even like a misdemeanor. Yo, that's wild. Yeah.

When you think about that kind of corruption, it still exists. It still exists. Wow. Cleveland's a corrupt town. Really? My dad's from Cleveland. A lot of mafia that used to be there. Yeah.

Cleveland's a corrupt town. It's kind of like Detroit light. You know how dirty Detroit is. Yeah. Okay. So after that, you switched things up. And I started doing the, I started doing a jury. Tell us about the jewelry.

Oh. My first stop was Jacob. Nice. That's one of Jacob watches was out. Hot Jacobs. Me and my play sister was like, I asked her, I said, where you want to go? She's like, let's go to, let's go to New York and get Jacobs. Let's go to Fifth Avenue and get Jacobs, the Diamond District.

You know, it's hot then. And we went to Jacob and got watches and same exact thing. But the only thing about diamonds, you have to have to study the art of diamonds. You have to learn it. You have to, I will have to learn. the art of diamonds, I mean, I've, I, I aced it. Like, they used to ask me when I go inside the jury stores was a gemologist because I studied it so much to where I was like, I would ask him like, where's, can I have the

magnified glass to see if there's any inclusions in it and things like that? The clarity cut. Wow. The color. Uh-huh. You had to know. You had to. With the bank, it was more simple, but with diamonds, it was a different, different game.

Right. You had to learn. Okay. And what was the purpose? You must have blown those Jewish guys away. Young hop black chick. They love you, dude. Most of them was, you too.

Yeah. Of course, it's the Diamond District. And, you know, a lot of those dudes are criminal, too. So I would think those guys would be harder to get over on. No. No? They used to love to see me coming. Yeah, I bet.

Yeah. I bet. They know when I was going to spend some money, hundreds of thousands. Fuck. Okay. Go into it. Go into it. Go, go into it.

girl. So from Jacob, we went to Aviani. I got me. I'm sorry. Tell us, but tell us about what is the purpose of studying these diamonds and how did you, what was the fraud? So the purpose of studying the diamonds is to know what you're going in there looking

for. If you can talk that diamond talk with a jeweler, they more intrigued. They're like, she know what she's talking about. She's not trying to scam us. This is a real legit person. You understand what I'm saying? Sure, sure. So, you know, going there, I think I purchased like three Jacob watches.

if I'm not mistaken or maybe two. It's been so long, can't remember. In cash? No, with the credit card. Okay, got it. Got it. Oh, so the merchant shit. Yeah, the same thing.

Thank you. The whole operation is the same thing verbatim word for work. And, you know, sometimes they all need assistance with their transaction. Sometimes they know. Sometimes they don't. It depends on which terminal they have. Mind you, the person I trained behind the phone because Smooch wasn't in the picture anymore. she learned all the terminals.

FD-150, what is it, Verophone, just all the terminals. Wow. The little, you know, the little gray box, that little old school gray, all of them. Right. It's either you're going to press off a line, force sale, or F3. Huh. And when you press that, it makes the whole system go offline, so they have to force it in a system with the authorization code. Right.

And you would learn all this from Smooch, and you were just able to train up somebody else. I mean, that's a big job, though. What they're doing is incredibly important. So were you splitting the deal with them? Wow. Yeah. Wow. And you have to, the person who's behind the phone line, you have to make sure they're extremely

intelligent when they talk because they can tell if something isn't right. The merchant can definitely tell. For sure. So you're in these like enormous jewelry store. Jewel. Yeah. Remember Bailey Banks and Brittle? Yeah.

Yeah. Those stores. So how much. what is each, like, first of all, what's a Jacob watch cost? Back then it was like, probably like 25 grand back then. It was cheap, yeah. That's cheap? That's cheap compared to now they're like 90 grand, 100,000 million.

Jacob watches are expensive now. They're like in a, he's exclusive now. Right. So you get two Jacob watches. What? So then it was just for, one was for my sister and one was for the person's boyfriend that was doing approval. I see. Okay. So when you start going to these other jewelry stores, tell us like what, what would be like an average take? And then how are you, who's your fence? Who are you getting these off? How are you getting them off?

I had like NFL players and drug dealers who would purchase these type of, they'll put in an order. So if they put in order for Brightland watches, Rolex watches, I'll make sure I get their order. Sometimes loose diamonds, loose stones. And do you give it to them? What kind of discount do you give them? It wouldn't be a big discount. I say no more than, no more than $5,000. Okay. So if it's $40,000, I'd get on $35,000. 80 cents on the dollar or something like that.

Yeah, not nothing big because these is diamonds. Right. Sometimes they're loose diamonds with GIA certs and everything. I didn't, when it came to them diamonds, I didn't come to play. I wanted all my dollars. Wow. And so you're, so you're known in this like elite circle of like drug dealers and professional athletes. And then I'm sure they're all trying to, you know. Yeah, but that wasn't my. You know, I dated a lot of, a lot of drug dealers, but I was getting more money than him.

Really? Yeah. For sure. So it was just like, whatever. So you could sell a piece to somebody for 30, 50, 50 grand. Mm-hmm. Wow. That's, it was bringing me all my cash, too. Nobody tried nothing. Well, you know, one time I did, somebody did try to rob me.

I didn't, they didn't try to rob me a couple of times, but one particular incident, yeah. Oh, is it like at gunpoint? No, it wasn't at gunpoint. It was like they were, we were backed inside. We were pulled in, you know how you pull into a park instead of backing in the park? We were pulled in the park. And they came, I was going to meet somebody. And they came and said,

You got white smoke coming from your BMW, and they tried to rob. They didn't try. They did rob. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Did, uh, can you name some of these NFL players? Would I, what I know?

No. MDNA. That was a good one, no, Johnny. It was a couple of those Raiders players. Ah, was it really? Yeah. Because you're Oakland. Because I was in Oakland.

And that's when the Raiders were still in Oakland. Yeah. Uh, hold on. The guy who, married left eye and she burned his house down. No. Not that guy? Who are the old Oakland Raiders?

Johnny. Okay, I want to figure this out. Maybe for the bonus episode. Okay. Any drug dealers that we would know? No. You didn't date like Big Meach? Sorry.

Johnny, we're not about to discuss stuff like that, Johnny. I signed the MDNA with you already. That's so funny. You call it an MDNA. That's hilarious. Wow. But this is, this is fascinating. So you're really like, you're living like your grandma, but you're a queen pin yourself now.

Yeah, I wouldn't, if you want to say that. Tell us about, yeah, tell what is the most lucrative jewelry heist, if you want to call it that? What's the most lucrative jewelry lick you hit? I was in a Chanel store in North Carolina. I mean, not Chanel store. or Tiffany. I'm Tiffany and Company. I'm sorry.

Huh. In North Carolina. And what kind of pieces? You know, Tiffany and Company is exclusive. It was, I want to say, two loose diamonds. They both was probably like five carrots each. And a diamond bracelet. Wow.

What was the ticket on that? I kept them for myself. But was the ticket on it? Yeah, like what was the ticket on it? Yeah. Like what was, yeah, what was the value? Yeah. I want to, I don't remember, Johnny.

It was so long ago, but it was in a hundreds, a thousands, yeah. So you're, you got to understand the more the purchase, the more likely your card is to go decline. The more leverage you have for them to say, it's okay, Ms. Banks, contact your bank. It's just for security purposes. Right. Would you like a glass of water? Right. Maybe he's so helpful.

Right. Because it's normal. It's normal. Like that's over $100,000. Right. No, your card is going to decline. So it's actually almost a safer bet to go for a higher dollar figure items. Wow, that's fascinating.

Then go for the low. Yeah. Absolutely. Do you think you made more money doing jewelry than you did when you were originally working with Smooch? Yeah. I made more money. Wow. But I couldn't send none of my workers in there to get jury.

You had to go. I'll have to go myself. Why? I don't think they were sophisticated enough when it came to diamonds. The art of diamonds is different. You really have to study. How did you go about researching diamonds? From going in jewelry stores for so long.

And then I just used to read up on them, like the difference of the clarity to cut the color. Yeah. Fascinating. It was fascinating. It was. Diamonds was fascinating. Now, you know, it's funny today they can now make lab-grown diamonds. Yeah.

We're finding out that that whole diamond Jacob era was just a big, almost a big fraud in itself. No, you know they're doing this. Sometimes they, you got to be careful with some of those celebrity jewelers because they'll sell you a lab diamond. No shit. No. That's what I'm saying. Damn fake watches. Crazy.

No, it is. It's crazy. It's sad, actually. Yeah. I think some of these jewelers would probably, you know, have contracts out on them. They've probably sold. That's not cool. Like, it's just not that serious.

It's like you guys get these diamonds for wholesale and then put an expensive ticket on top of what you're getting them for. Right. I mean, I understand that's the business, but... Well, that's why I think gold is coming back into popularity because people are finding out diamonds have never really been scarce because the value of it is based on the scarcity of it. These are harder to get.

These come from, you know, warlords who are forcing these African kids to get these diamonds. It's horrendous. It's really difficult. There's not that many of them. That's why I can charge $100,000 for a Tiffany bracelet. Now we're finding out, oh, I can just grow this motherfucker in a lab. Like how much value does it really have?

Lab diamonds are expensive, though. Don't get it twisted because they're not cheap. I would take a lab diamond. If my husband gave me a lab diamond for my ring, I would take it as long as it's eight carrots. I'd be livid if my husband gave me a fucking lab grown diamond. Really? Johnny, come on.

It's not about the diamond. It's about your heart. It's about the heart. It's about the heart. Like, the diamond don't mean nothing. It's just the fancy thing on top on your hand. I'm going to tell them that. But gold is, there's a world price for it.

We know gold is $43, $4,400 an ounce because it is really difficult to get out of the ground. It's infinitely scarce, et cetera, et cetera. So did you ever hit gold or was it just diamonds? No, it was just diamonds. not really a gold person. I mean, I have a little, but I'm not really a gold girl. I like platinum or silver. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by prize picks. It's the holiday season, you guys, the best time of year to fire on sports. You've got bowl games, basketball matchups, playoff pushes. It's all happening at once. While you and I are out here making decisions every day, what gifts to buy, what to eat, which game to watch, there is one place where it feels good to be right. Prize picks. This is a the only way I fire on action. I've told you guys this before. I am a casual sports fan. I enjoy

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goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to RocketMoney.com slash connect today. That's rocketmoney.com slash connect. RocketMoney.com slash C-O-N-N-E-C-T. Thank you, RocketMoney. Okay, so how long were you doing jewelry for? This episode is brought to you by Palm Olive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners. Sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palm Olive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes, sparkling clean.

And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. I would say almost two years probably. Oh, God. And how many, how many licks do you think in two years?

I can't even count. It was so many. It was a lot of them. I went to a lot of diamond districts. I went to the one in Chicago, Detroit have a little diamond district. Really? I went to Miami.

Miami have a little diamond district. New York, I was just back and forth, New York. Because New York, diamonds everywhere, even in, they got a Coliseum Mall to have, like, it's just, all these different stands just set up like a, yeah, the Coliseum Mall, like, it was just different stands of jewelers, like, set up. But you couldn't still, same with the bank, you never go back to the same place.

No. Okay. I don't think so. I don't think everyone back to the same jury place. Tiffany because that's different. Now, are you worried that like they're going to have your picture up on the wall when you walk in? Like, of course, but that didn't stop nothing. Yeah. And you just never put your trust in somebody else to go do it. Not when it comes to diamonds, no. And you our watches, no. And you really think, you have to think on your feet. You have to be calm. You have to be

poised. See, my play sister, she used to come with me all the time. So I felt confident. She was beautiful. She's still beautiful to this day. Um, she'll come with me and she'll be my lookout. Right. They'll be looking at her because she has a big behind. And she's beautiful. And that's what you call your play sister, which is basically your lookout.

Yeah, she's my lookout. Yeah, and you distract. She's a distraction. She's a distraction. She'll tell me she didn't feel something. She'll say it. She'll shake her head or, yeah. Did you have any of those moments while you were doing jewelry?

Oh, yeah. I was nervous sometimes doing jewelry. Why not? Why opposed to a bank? Why did jewelry make you? Because you're in there for longer. You're sitting down. You're in person, up in personal with this jeweler.

He's a salesman. Yes, absolutely. It's not a quick, like, you're going in and out. You've got to take your time. You've got to try shit on. Yeah. They get skeptical. Like, how are you trying to buy a $100,000 watch and you're ready to leave?

Purchasing and leave? No, something's not right. So, yeah. So you're in character. Yeah. basically. This is fascinating. Did you have a backstory?

What was your backstory? About what? Like, I'm sure, you know, a guy who's trying to hit on you a diamond salesman is like, well, where are you from? Like, what do you do? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I was a real estate agent at the time.

So that's what I used to say. I'm a real estate agent. Yeah. You sell like luxury real estate? Luxury real estate. Mm-hmm. Okay. Or whatever idea I had in that state.

Wow. Okay. Yeah, of course. You've always got to have a story. You always got to have a question. quick comeback because they ask you questions. Right. For sure.

Oh, you're from L.A. You work in the, oh, you're a real estate agent. I'm like, well, my cousin Avi, he's looking for a house in like Beverly Hills. Do you have any listings? I was quick to give him a fake number. Yes. For sure. And this is like the early 2000s, so it's not like people can check really quick online.

No. Like now you'd have to have a whole website set up, whole fake. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. smart. So how you said you did this for about two years and then what happened? I eventually got caught. I did an illegal U-turn. We were actually coming from Boston. I was going

to meet a client and I had all the receipts in the car with me because it was my first time dealing with him. So I wanted him to see like everything was legit. I wasn't know I wasn't trying to get over on him. And I did a legal U-turn in front of the BART station in Oakland, California. And I had a three-way search. I was on probation for a case that happened. one of my workers that got caught inside. No, she didn't get caught. I don't know why I said that. She didn't get caught inside the branch.

They let her go with the money. But my number was transferred to my number was transferred to my, my number was transferred to my house. The 1-800 was transferred to my house. I was pregnant at the time. So I was, this was a while ago. Right. So I was on probation for that. I see.

I had a three-way search clause. Was it a felony probation? It was failing probation. And what was that charge? I don't remember. Okay. I don't remember, Johnny, but. That's how I know you're telling the truth.

I don't remember. A real felon? Like, if you're in prison, a real, a real felon, be like, you ask him how many cases they have. They're like, I don't remember that shit. Yeah, I try. And you know what's so crazy because I try to remember. I try not to like remember my past anyway. Uh-huh.

I like going to everything just to sweep everything under the rug, like cricket everything. Yeah, but this is good because you're talking about your past, the story rules. Exactly. All the lives I didn't, all the impact I don't have on other people lives. So this is why I do it. That's it. Yeah. That's it.

Okay, so you're living in the bay on probation. Did you have to stop working when you were on probation? Okay, so you were. I had a three-way search clause. So they searched the car and everything was on us, the diamonds, the merchandise. everything was on us. We like some... That was just God, like, this is it.

Like, you need to stop. Right. You're not untouchable. Because people think that when they're out there committing crimes, they're untouchable. You are not untouchable and you are not invisible. Mm-hmm. You're not.

The Bay Area is not but so big. Everybody was talking. Like, it was probably like five crews, but we always get... All of us was getting money, and people was talking. So you're obviously your name's buzzing because you have all these high-end clients and they're, you know, this NFL dude or this drug dealer is referring referring you to his clients. And so you're meeting.

So it's getting out. A lot of people know what you're doing. Yeah. So it's starting to get hot. So you were on your way to meet a client to sell him the merchandise. What did the police find? Everything. Diamonds, purses.

They even called, while we were sitting there, they called back Boston. They called back to Boston and was questioning. And they called us, these would taste take a bite out of hub. What? What did you say? They called us the Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie knockoff sisters. These were, it highlighted in the Boston Glove, these would taste take a bite out of hub. Yeah, whole article.

Wow. It was like, because Boston was known for, like, heinous crimes. Right. Like crazy people like killing their landlords and stuff And them in the wall type stuff We was like we didn't hear her bail was 10,000 minds was 20,000 cash Uh-huh No 10%

You had to take the money to the magistrate Right, right So did they extradite you to Boston? Eventually we got extradited to Boston She bonded out and I bonded out Okay What was the value of the loot that they seized? Do you remember?

24 hours, I want to say 120 grand, 24-hour shopping for 120,000. Wow. Yeah. In a day. And they got all that. So that's larceny. They was pissed.

So what's the charge? Is that larceny? It was larceny. It was like, they were dressed so well. You wouldn't never know they were thieves. You know in Boston, they still dressed like the Columbus days with their hair and they still wore them clothes. Yeah.

Yeah. They're on some real white. Yeah. some real white people shit over there. So they were, they were well-dressed thieves. They came here with pre-paid credit cards. You wouldn't have a clue.

Right. They didn't have a clue. Wow. And so it's only, you only fucked up. It was just like on a humble. That illegal you turn. Yeah.

Shit. Yeah. Okay. So they extradite you to Boston. You guys bond out. What's the next move? I'm like, I got to go make some more money.

Right. And then I did. Jesus. How much did you. spend. Oh my goodness. You're a fucking millionaire. Like how, how, like,

what are you spending all this goddamn money on? I was Spurgeon. I was, and I had a, um, you needed me. I had a, I had, uh, I had bought my, my son's father. I bought him a detail shop. I had a laundry room, a laundry mat.

Uh-huh. I had best into a laundry mat. Uh-huh. But yeah, I was still just doing dumb stuff. When I think about that, I'd be like, it is what it is. I was doing, I was. Were you buying nice cars?

I drove a Land Rover. Yeah. He had a Hummer. Yeah. And I bought him a Camero. Okay. Did you move your... Damn.

I stayed in Dublin. Okay. That's where... San Ramon. Yeah, I think E40 lives in Dublin. Oh, really? Shout out to Earl. Still trying to get you a podcast, buddy.

Nobody's a bigger fan than you than me. So you moved your family out the hood? Yeah. Okay. My kids never stayed in the hood. Wow. Ever. So this was going on even after your first son was born?

Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Yeah. So you're living this affluent life off of this boosting. So you had to- Not boosting. Not boosting off of this.

Approval game. Approval game. Yeah, let's say that. Is that how it's referred to in the streets? White collar is referred to it. White collar. Yeah. But we call it the approval game.

White collar? Yeah. By black girls. Anyways. I love it. Okay, so you bond out. So you got to go hustle. You got to make money because now you're, yeah, I mean, you got to pay for lawyers.

It's expensive being on the run. What, yeah, what happened after that? Oh, probably like I would say a month later, like me and my place sister, like we fell out because she was pissed. Like she called a case. Like she was pissed. So she didn't want to come with me. So I went to Virginia. Went to Virginia.

You used some old work. Meaning? some stuff I had reused. Because usually once you use stuff that you have, you throw it away because it's hot. The credit card I and D, he's supposed to throw it away. Right. Use some old work and went to a reed jury store. Uh-huh.

And to this day, I don't know, just something inside of me just feel like the person who did my approval is the person who called back inside the jury store. I just feel like that, Johnny. Like they were added on here. Yeah. But anyway, you know, the, you know, the proof. The purchase went through. The young lady gave me my,

she gave my credit card, kept my ID. She was stalling time for the Chesapeake police to come in. Oh, I see. They came in with a big five-by-seven like... Like a five-by-seven what? Like a big, you know, the big Polaroid like this shoe. Oh, the wanted... Yeah, so I went down.

Wow. That was it. That was it. And now you can't bond out. No, I can't bond out because I'm fighting this case. in Boston. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and what was the value of that that you tried to buy? It was two Rolex. It was like $100,000, too. Okay. So, yeah. So now you have, now you've got big felony. Now I have crossing state lines.

Now the feds are involved at this point. I see. Sure, sure. Can I, before we get into, you know, how this wraps up, the cards, the work, how, I didn't even ask this, how were you securing those?

How are you getting fresh cards, fresh prepaid cards. We'll just go to the check cashing places. They sell prepaid credit cards. We'll put a little bit of money on them. We'll have a Mexican emborder your name. And he put the name on there and 1-800 number on the back. Okay.

So you were going, so you would buy, there were real cards you would buy from check-cashing places. And then your Connect, who was making fake IDs, would make you an ID to match. Whatever name we use. I see. And then he would put the... the number on the back. The 1-800 number. Wow.

And put our name on the front. Mind you, this wasn't people credit cards and ID. Let's clarify that. Because I think the viewers get a little confused like we was using other people work. Other people credit cards and IDs, no. Yeah, you were not committing identity theft. Well. Well, you were robbing the stores and the banks that are insured.

I'm not justifying it. No, let's not justify it. But you were in fact not ripping off. ordinary people. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So, wow, that's fat. And how much would you pay your Mexican guy every time? About $300. Yeah, so good deal for you. Mm-hmm. Good deal. So IDs was like $100 then. Yeah. So, you know, you throw him something, make sure he'd be on deck whenever you need them, you know? Right. Because he has to turn that around fast. And would you send somebody into the check cashing places to buy? No, we'll just go buy him. You could just go do it

yourself because it's, you got a fake ID. Why the hell not? Yeah. And that's when check catching places wasn't, they don't play with them fake ID. You can't go in there and fake with fake IDs now. Really? You know? No. Huh. Absolutely not.

Yeah. I mean, I wonder how hard it is to get a fake. Nowadays, I heard you can get them offline off of Facebook marketing stuff I heard. Probably. I mean, you can, I'm sure you can get somebody else's ID, but it's real. Can you get, I mean, look, the dark web, the internet? I don't know. Oh, you just never know.

Everything is undefeated. It is, right? Yeah. It just keeps it. evolving. That's why you got to make sure you keep everything on lock. Yeah, no shit. So for some reason you went in there with an old ID and an old card. But CB you, do you never, I was supposed to throw that work away. Once you done, you don't use, you don't double use work and I double use work. Yeah. That's why, you know, it can be two things. But my gut, it was the person who

was doing my approval. That's just my gut feeling. Do you think that had a grudge against you? You just never know. How many people did you have doing your approvals? Well, after that Boston incident, I have to find somebody else because my play sister and my ex-best friend, like, they was pissed. So I had to find somebody else to do my APs. Right. Yeah.

And when you're scrambling, you're not keeping shit as tight. I totally get it. It was over. Like, I felt it, you know. Even, like, my son was crying when I left. He was screaming to the top of his lungs. I still left. Yeah.

That's heartbreaking. Yeah. So now, do you have a Fed case now? Are you charged in federal court or what happens after you get arrested in Virginia? I was fighting the Fed case. Okay. They ended up non-processing the Boston case and the feds picked it up. Sure.

Okay. In certain ways, it's better, right? Because then you don't have to go back and forth dealing with like Boston Commonwealth prison and I don't know. Virginia Commonwealth too. Oh, that's true. That's a good point. Okay, so how long were you fighting your case in jail for?

That I can't tell you, Johnny, but I caught my case in 2003. That's when I got my time, 2003. Okay. What was your sentence? Conspiracy to identity theft, seven years. Seven years. Okay. Did you see why people choose these kind of crimes over drugs?

Because you made men. Seven years is a long time. It's a long time. But you'll, you could be out in six, right? Like if somebody, the time to make millions of dollars in the drug game, getting caught, you would get a 20-year sentence. Right. You know what I mean? So it's, I'm sure you'll tell us it's not worth it.

Of course, it's not worth it. It's definitely not. Any day away from your family, your kids. And again, like, you don't think about that when you out there making money. You don't think about, oh, the consequences, you know, when you make it money. but when you sit down and like realize it like, damn, I left my children behind some money. Right. Well, that's also how you were supporting them.

So if you had built this whole— Because I've been a single parent for so long. Like their father was in and out of jail or just not, you know, there. Right. I've been a single parent on my life. I always—my mom always told me, like, to be strong. Like, I used to always say I don't need a man. I don't need a man.

but I do need a man. Yeah. You know? Well, I think we need each other. Yeah, absolutely. Kids need two parents. Kids need two parents. And it's sad that our society, you know, have this narrative.

Like, you don't. Like, I'm tired of being the father and the mother. Right, right. But you had already built this empire to where everybody depended on you. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I get that that's really tough.

when you went away, what happened to the kids? They were at their uncle house, and then eventually they got split up. My boys got split up. So you had two kids at the time? Okay. Were you able to hold on to your house in Dublin? No. They ended up breaking in my...

I was standing from Dublin. I moved to Tracy, but my ex-friends end up breaking in my house, stealing all my stuff. Oh, fuck. That's how to game go. Right. And now, did anybody else go down? No, I was the only one that would. down. Did they try to get you to, you know, bring in other people for a time cut? Yeah, they did,

but they already knew I was the head honcho of it. Okay. Right. Right. But you were the only one. There wasn't like a big, like, RICO indictment. No, absolutely not. Okay. What is female federal prison like? Horrible. I mean, it was like Martha Stewart made it seem like it was Camp Cupcake, but it really wasn't. It was just... Maybe where she went. I mean, she was at the camp. I was at a FCI, so I was at the medium. Right. But it was, it was, it wasn't any day away from your family, Johnny. It's just horrible.

It wasn't, I didn't work in there. I didn't want to do nothing. I worked out my whole seven years, though. I am a fitness guru. Okay. Fitness pioneer, actually. Right, right. So you were lifting weights.

We had a weight power in Dublin. Oh, wow. Oh, so you were at FCI Dublin in the Bay. Yeah, right. Matter of fact, I stayed right down the street from the federal prison. Wow. Where your old house was. That's crazy.

Well, that's good, though. At least, like, that's, you know, your family can come see you. Well, yeah, I got family visits. My mom used to come. She used to bring me contraband and stuff. Oh, wait. Really? Yeah, she used to bring me, like, Maclip gloss, jury.

Anything I can sell because my restitution was so high, so they'll take my money off my books. Whenever she'll put money on my books, they'll take it. Fuck. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What was your restitution? My restitution is still, it's one point something, one point two million.

So how were they able to estimate that? Like when the prosecutor, how are they able to come up with that number? That's a good number. That's a good idea. How do they come up with that number? Right. You don't know? No.

So because they only had, they had the shit in Boston, which was worth like whatever, 150, and then another, say, like, 120. Say 150 on the high end. That's 300. So then they just come up with like an extra. million dollars on there? Your guess is as good as mine. I was saying the same thing when they told me that restitution. I'm like, how do you guys come up with this? Did you guys, did you guys fight it at all? No. Huh. I had a public defender. I don't have a paid attorney.

Yeah. And then, okay. Damn, that sucks. So they would take money off your books to just like it's child support or some shit like that. Okay, so you were in there hustling. Everybody's got a hustle. Everybody's got a hustle in there. Everybody has a hustle. Okay, so female prisons, obviously male prisons, you know, at the FCIs for sure. People are, there's a lot of drugs in there. People got selling. Oh, yeah, it was, it was, it was, I don't know, I don't know if it was hard drugs in the women in prison, but I know for sure it was pills. You thought this was your run club era.

Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Deepop. Just snap a few folks. and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying.

Someone on Deepop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Deepop where taste recognizes taste. What kind of pills? What is the... Might all? No.

They used to snort those pills, whatever kind of pills it was. It's not Welbutrin? I think so. Yeah, I think it was wellbutrin. Okay. Yeah. So there wasn't like there was like weed or meth in there or anything.

Not that I remember recall. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. I wonder why the men, like there's so much drug use, illicit drug use. Because those women guards probably be bringing them in for them in. Yeah. Maybe.

I mean, it was a lot of like sex scandals up in the FCIs. Oh, for real? Yeah. In Dublin. You know, they closed Dublin down. It's no longer open. I didn't know that. Yeah.

What kind of sex scandals? The guards having sex with the inmates. Yeah, sure. It was bad. Damn. Yeah. That's so hot, though. I never experienced.

I never seen it. That's. Yeah. I stayed in my own way. So did they arrest the guards? Mm-hmm. Obviously. Someone got arrested.

Someone eventually passed away. That, wow. That's what happened when I was in prison. Really? Oh, you went to prison. Yeah. I was in state prison. But that's what?

Drug, drugs, selling weed. Oh, okay. Sold a bunch of weed. back in the day when you could make money, bubbling weed. You did a long time? No, I only did two years. Oh, okay. That was it.

Yeah, yeah. That scared you straight. For sure. For sure. I was like, damn, this, you know, and I lost all my money. So it wasn't like an easy two years. You know, I wasn't able to bail out. I had like a whole, like a federal hold.

I had. Oh, you was big time. They, yeah, I mean, it was, I was like a mid-level trafficker, but they thought I was big time. And I also was on probation from getting cop. before. So it wasn't like, I just got to bail out, got my lawyer to like move the case back, prolong it. I got to take a bite to my family, go turn myself in. No, none of that. I was like in county fucking getting in fist fights and going to the hole and, you know, watching dudes get beat up

and getting maced. And then I had to go to, it wasn't easy. When you have to go from one institution to another to another back and forth to court, that's a really, really hard way to do your time. So, yeah, so it was, that was enough for me to be like, yeah, I should probably do something else. And the Wii game was falling off anyways. But when I was at two rivers correctional facility, which is like a medium, it's like a medium, it's in a way out there in like the middle of nowhere in eastern Oregon. Yeah, there was this big, just a big fat white, white lady. She was a guard.

And surprise, surprise, she was fucking one of the brothers. And, yeah, they arrested her. Really? They arrested, of course. Yeah. So even with a guy, even though he's a man, they considered what she did sexual assault because she's like in a position of power. Right. So I guess that was happening obviously at FCI Dublin.

It was. So your mom would like sneak in like what kind of jewelry? Like gold jewelry. Yeah. It was real popular in Dublin. Wow. Eventually I got, you know, the work on the compound, and eventually I got rolled up and sent over to Waseca, Minnesota. Uh-huh.

I've heard of that. So I finished during my time in Waseka. That was hard time. We used to shovel snow and all kinds of stuff. Fuck. That was hard time. I couldn't see my children. Yeah.

When I left, I was the size two. I was so small. Wow. I was so stressed out. Right. Yeah. Right. So are there any, like, fights in there?

Of course. Like fist fights? chick fights. Did those ever get like actually dangerous where somebody like gets stabbed or anything like that? We was in there

what a couple of, you know, Indians, a lot of Indians. Right. And you know, Indians, they in there for like heinous crimes too. Native Americans.

Yeah. On reservations. Right. Yeah. They were really nice, though. They were really nice young ladies but they had years. Like for like murders and shit?

Fuck. On the Indian reservation. Wow. Yeah, there's there's heinous shit that goes on on Indian reservations. My father was my father is Indian. I can tell. Oh my God. I mean it.

So funny. I mean it. I was going to, I was wondering that. Johnny, how did you tell? How did you tell? Well, it's going to sound. Do you really want to know? It's going to sound like, I don't know, maybe a little racist.

No. But you have a. a longer face. You're very, very beautiful. Thank you. But I think it's in the, yeah, I think it's the, I think it's your real hair.

I think it's your real hair, and it's maybe your facial structure. There's no way I can, I sound like Leonardo DiCaprio and Django Unchained, talking the phrenology. I can't. It just sounds horribly racist. You guys are so sweet.

You always said that. Matthew was saying that. Matthew was like, Bella, you are such a beautiful black young lady. I don't meet it. He said the same thing. I'm not saying.

I'm not saying. I'm not trying to sound racist. He's like, but you are. You're very intelligent. He said the same thing. You guys are sweet. Thank you. Did you get hit on in prison?

Of course I did. By women, the other girls? Yeah. Huh. No, I didn't go the other way, though. Right, right. But a lot of women do. Yeah, they do.

There's not the stigma, obviously, of like two men doing it. You know what I mean? Or something like that. So you really think the hardest part about being in prison is just, you know, female prison is just the psychological. Being away from your family. Right. Yeah.

Right. So how much time did you do? Did you go to the hole at all? Yeah, I lost all my good time. You lost all your good time? Well, they call it circuit fitness system because my mom would say, I put the money on such and such books. I'm like, mom, like, that's a shot.

Oh, if you put money on other people books. Oh, shit. Yeah. How did they find out about that? Over the phone. Over the phone. The phones are monitoring, monitor and record it. Oh, my God.

Were you, do you think that? They listen to your phone calls. A lot. A lot because of the nature of your... Wow. So just little shit like that, they put you in the hole. Yes. They don't play.

They do not play. They will put you in a shoe so fast. How long was your longest hole shot? Probably like 40 days. Oh. Yeah. And they strip-sturt you and everything? Oh, yeah.

Make you bend over squat and cough. Ooh, disgusting and degrading. Degrading. So degrading. What did you... Did you develop an idea about what you were going to do when you got out? Well, I started writing my book when I was in Dublin. Okay.

Recidivism. Yeah. Recidivism, Beauty, Before Bars. And I was like, but it was called the original diamond cluster hustler. I don't know where I got that name from, I guess, because I was, like, so into diamonds. Yeah. And then when I... So a working title?

Yeah. Recidivism. Okay. So you were writing your book. What else did you think? I mean... So I was always, like I said, I worked out my whole... I'm like really into my...

The way I look and my body and health and wealth. And I like for people to feel good about themselves. So I was like, maybe I should be a personal trainer. So I came home doing personal trainers. From personal trainers, I did body contour. And I opened up a Medi Spa in Atlanta. I opened up one in Vegas, then one in Atlanta. Wow.

Yeah, a Medi Spa. And that provides just like beauty. Body contour, any after surgery things or any mommies that's trying to get their mommy bodies back. Right. Yeah. And it made women feel good about themselves, gain their confidence back. Right, right. That's something I'm very passionate about.

Okay. And you're doing that to this day? No, I'm not doing that to this day. Okay. So this is what you did kind of like immediately following your release. Yeah, I did. So person training, it wasn't like I wasn't getting customers who was serious. They'll pay and then never show up or they'll pay and then come up and then don't come back.

Right. Yeah, there's no real money in that. No. So you had to go. What was probation like? How did you build up? Because this is the hardest part for people, you know, who are just getting out or a lot of people listen to this that are still on the inside and maybe you're getting ready to come home.

It was hard. Yeah, it's daunting. And I get it. So, yeah, tell us like the realities, how you, you. you persevered and then built up, you know, these businesses. So the reality is what people need to understand, nobody owe you S-H-I-T. Nobody owes you nothing. You chose to make that choice.

You chose to do the crime and do the time and come home. Nobody owes you nothing. Don't think that when you come home, you go get a handout. I don't have no handouts. I don't have no help when I came home. I had to do everything by myself. But I believe, you know, I say a lot has to do. do with my children, like looking at them, and I want to make the same mistakes again, you know?

Like I said, I started off doing fitness training and from fitness training I did the Medi Spa. And I just like, again, I like for people to feel good about their self. Well, how did you, how did you, how did you, if somebody wants to open up a business, like, how did you do it? Did you save money? Did you get a business loan? Oh, no. I had a, I have a best friend.

I'm like, I don't want to mention. name because I mentioned her name to me podcast, but y'all know who she is. She invested into me. Okay. Oprah. Whatever. It's a shot in the dark. She's a rich. She's a very rich wealthy lady. Okay. She's my angel. And she invested. She believed in me. She's a Caucasian young lady. Wow. Yeah. She loves me and I love her more. Okay. So you got she was your investor. Yeah. And she didn't ask for not a dollar back. Wow. That helps. If you have, you know, obviously that's the way to do it, but.

But I met her after I came home, like, after a while, like, and I told her my story. She, we started off as cheer friends. Okay. Because her kid, uh, cheer and my son cheered. And we cheer, cheer parents. Right. Okay. And she just took a liking to me.

Yeah. She never judged me. And she never turned her back on me. She's, to this day, like, she's sweetest pie. Like, she's a sweetheart. She's always been there. That's really cool. So how long did it take you to feel like you were back on your feet?

I came home in 2012. I would say 2015. Okay. Yeah, that took a while. Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, actually, that's when I came home. It was 2012. Yeah.

And I just got back on my feet like three years ago, thanks to this podcast. Really? Thank you, Lord. I mean, I was out. I was, no, I mean, I got back on my feet pretty cool. quick, but not monetarily. Like, it took me a decade. Yeah.

You know what I mean? To where I finally am making the money that I made drug dealing from this show. So it took, I mean, look, realistically, like 13 years. Yeah. Did so, so in those three years, what did you do? Like, what can people do? Do you go back and live with your family? No, I can't go back to live.

Okay. I can't go live with nobody. I live with somebody for how long, seven years. I wasn't in a little tin can, you know. Right. Okay. I had a, like, I was struggling for a while. I had, um, my probation officer I was standing.

We spent an apartment like in Hesperia, California. Yeah. It was a one-bedroom. It was me and my, it was me and my younger, my, it was me and my, it was me and my younger son and my 21-year-old. And it was, it had roaches in this, in this, but my probation officer had got me this. This was the name. And I started working. I was working, like, working at, like, Panera bread, like, nothing fancy.

Right. Just saving money. And eventually I moved to Las Vegas. Okay. And Las Vegas don't have, like, good help with reentry. California is the most number one state that will help you. Really? X offenders and things like that.

Okay. And from Hesperia, I moved to Las Vegas, and I met my other son's father. And he was okay. It needs nothing to talk about, but yeah. Is it hard to get, if you want to leave the state, if you have an opportunity to work or open a business in another state and you're on probation, let's say in California, federal probation. Is it hard to get your probation transfer? No. It wasn't hard.

Okay. But I was off. I was, once I moved to Vegas, I was off. I think they gave me three years. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. So, and that's where you moved to Vegas.

Did you open up your first business there? Yeah. Okay. I met her and she believed in me and I opened up my MediSpot Air. Did you have success? Yeah, it was successful. Okay. And eventually me and him didn't make it work out, you know, and then I moved to Atlanta.

Okay. And you opened up one there. Yeah, and it wasn't, it wasn't huge. It was just like in a suite, but Atlanta is different. Like, those women go get their bodies done every year instead of keeping it up, working out. I'm keeping it up. Right. But I lost my passion doing it.

I had got my phobotomy license too. What is that? It's like where you draw blood. Okay. So I had got my phobotomy license. The only reason why I got my phobotomy license is so I can do the mesotherapy shots. Okay. They're like weight loss shots.

Right. I think that industry's huge. It is. It's going to keep growing. It's good money. Yeah. It's really good money. Yeah.

But, yeah, Lynn, I was just like, I'm over it. Like, how are y'all going back every year? Like just go to the gym, eat right, and keep your body up. Right. Not in the South. No. Baby, them corn fed women down there. They like to eat.

Yeah, that's it. Foodies is a way to put it. Yeah. Pigs. Anyways. Johnny, that is not nice. Look, you need to know where you're at. It's important for me to be honest with you with them so then they can, you know, take the necessary steps to change.

But that's not going to work. child, they go eat. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't prevent like, and you can get, you can take OZempic. Well, I guess OZempic is like working now. It's like reducing the diabetes. There's how many lawsuits with that?

Just go to the gym and eat right. I know. I know. No diet, no nothing. No shots. That stuff is for diabetics. I know. I know.

Yeah. And you will be a diabetic if you keep eating this way. Exactly. Yeah. So I don't think, I think just because you lose. tissue and weight once a year, your organs are still fucked up because you're eating brisket and you're and cola and you know what I mean? All this sugar. I have a reason to eat like how I eat right now. But how, yes, you're eight months pregnant. And you're shining. How old are you?

Do you don't mind me asking? Oh, Johnny, I'm not about to say that on air. No, but I think it's important because you look so good, girl. Okay, tell me. Tell me how old I look. Uh, well, I know. Well, I know. how old you are. You're 44. Okay. Did I get that right? You got it right. Wow.

I'm just doing math because I knew you were 19 when you got in the game. Okay. So you look amazing. Thank you, John. And you're not, and you're just working out and eating right. Yeah, I work on E right. You're not taking...

I don't drink. I don't smoke. You're not taking shots of things? No. Okay. Wow. So what is your now? Where are we now?

And you started, and I'll say, like, you started telling your story when podcasting started to become a thing. It took me a long time to tell my story. My first thought was, shout out to Trapp and Anonymous, Chris Stiles. I went viral on that podcast. And then I went to,

oh yeah, I forgot about real life street stars. I went viral on that one too. Did you find that a lot of people had shared a similar journey? Did you find that people resonated with you? People resonated with me, but not,

they didn't been to prison, but not a similar story. Like, you know, now, Like back then it wasn't girl bosses. It was somebody, we didn't have nobody. We didn't have no man behind us. None of us. None of the people you were hustling with.

None of the, none of the group, none of us from Smooch to Veronica, like Jameh. Like, we all was our own bosses. Yeah. You were buying your men cars. You were keeping these fucking bums. These ain't shit. Right. Like, you know.

know, like, we were our own, we were, we were self-made. Right, right. So it's really hard for us women who grew up like that for us to be like soft or be like submissive. Right. You know, it's kind of, right. Because we always, we was, we were so strong, so we are so strong and so strong minded. And it's hard for us to.

To stay in a relationship with an alpha man because you are alpha female. Exactly. And so something's got a, something's got a break. That's not going to work long term. I had a, gee, I had a man tell me he don't want no alpha female. Yeah. That's crazy. But it's, you know, he watches a lot of Andrew Tate and he watches a lot of, you know, the fresh and the fit boys. And this is the, this is the mentality. Yeah, I guess.

But I think I'm that kind of guy, too, though. You don't want no alpha female, Johnny? It's alpha maybe to an extent. You know what I mean? But like I don't. But you have to put her in her. You have to put her in that where she feels safe. Right.

You understand what I'm saying? Where she feel like she can communicate and you being loyal to her and you're not being deceitful. Right. You understand what I'm saying? You have to put her in that space. Yeah. And if a person is not put you in that space, you always have your guard up, at least with me. Yeah.

Uh-huh. You know? That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. I've been like a cheater and a, you know, bullshit. Once a cheater, always a cheater. No, don't say that.

Shoot, who are you telling? So you ain't cheated since you cheated on whoever? I haven't had a girlfriend since then. I've been, I've been after I did that, and I'm friends with her again. She's forgiven me and stuff. But why didn't you cheat on her? Let's talk about that, Johnny. Because she was a little masculine.

And you tell me, you cheated on her because she was a little masculine? That's, yes. I wasn't, I wasn't very sexually attracted to her. You're not on up to your responsibilities. You cheated on her because of your ego. That's definitely. And oh, yeah, 100%. I just blamed her first.

I'm going to get into blaming myself. Don't play victim, Johnny. No, no, no, I'm not a victim. I was just getting a lot of opportunities with other women. The attention. Yeah, I was getting a lot of attention. And I had been broke and poor and struggling for so long. And now I'm finally, like, all over the internet.

And yeah, I'm just getting a lot of opportunities. And I'm just kind of being selfish. and and I think you for accepting responsibility definitely definitely no no it was all my fault I'm just you know she I can look at her now and be like she is an alpha woman who I love as a friend but isn't yet ready to like submit to a man okay so I can and I give her that advice too kind of what we talk about because there there does have to be some of course the man has to be loyal the provider honest, that's the big one, honest, but also the female. A good communicator.

Right, right. But a female that has had trauma as a child, right? Like of myself. Sure. Also has to get to a place where she can then allow herself to submit a little bit. Don't you think? Like, shouldn't it be a, I agree. We can both, we can both take responsibility.

We can both take, but don't play victim. No, no. Don't make it seem like because of your childhood trauma is the reason why I, I'm I am the way I am. No, it's because of what you've been through as well as a man. It's your ego. It's that attention. I just love, I love, you know what. Yeah, and y'all love. Yeah. You are such a wife. I can't even believe, oh, man, if I was 15 years older, dude,

we'd be in Turks and Keko right now. How are you? I'm 39. I'll be 40 in a couple months. than that. Thank you. I appreciate it. I don't drink anymore. I don't stay up late. Right.

You know, I try not to run around either with these women because that will age you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Stay exclusive. Yeah.

Yeah. Going to work on that. So. It's the best thing to do. So then what, gosh, where can people get this book? Let's push recidivism, dude. This is a great story.

I can tell why. you're so viral and loved. Thank you. And tell people, yeah, what do you want to plug, promote, push? And then, yeah, recidivism. So my book, you can get it in my bio. On my Instagram, it's Bella Barcode underscore. I have a movie.

Really? Maybe, maybe. Oh, yeah. Maybe we can get some investors for this movie. I wrote a script for the book. I turned a book into a movie. Amazing. I see it.

It's like that movie Hustlers with Jennifer. for with jail. But on steroids. Yeah. But mine's going to be on steroids. Wow. Yeah. And this is incredible.

Yeah. No, most people didn't have this kind of success. I mean, you're a real, you're a real hustling, hustling lady. Legit now. Yeah. Right, right. Do you ever keep up with the old crew at all? Do you know what became of them?

Yeah. So like I was saying, I still, me and Veronica Henderson, we, we talk every day about, she's up and, you know, she eventually got out of her own way because that's what it be. We be in our own way. She told her story on American Gangster. And we keep in contact. But as far as like the smooch, every now and now I speak with her over the phone. But the other smooch, that's my best friend.

We still keep in contact. Like she's, she work at a, it's so crazy because she work at a recovery, like a reentry center, the other smooch because we call all of we call each other smooch but the OG smooch who taught me the game we speak every now and in but the younger smooch we we like texting all that but yeah did they end up getting out of the game before they did time or did everybody end up having to go sit down where is daredevil a minor don't miss the return of marvel television's daredevil born again so what's next I'll be liberated we're to take this city back season now streaming only on Disney Plus.

They're hunting us. It's time we started hunting them. I can work with that. This should be tons of fun. Marvel television's Daredevil, Born Again, now streaming only on Disney Plus. They ended up, no, everybody did time. Okay.

Okay. You think you did the most time? Yeah, I did the most time, and so did Veronica. Wow. So you did, you did about eight. You went down in 2003? Yes. So you did, oh my God, did you do nine years in prison?

No, seven. Well, what year do you get out? I came home 2012, so I might have went down 2004. Yeah. I was it three. 2004. I came home 2012. Okay, because, so that makes it eight years.

2004 to 2012 is eight years. So I lost all my good time. Fuck. Yes, you did, wow. Yeah. Yes, but you've made up for lost time. You've got a beautiful, beautiful family. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, follow her on Instagram.

Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram. I'm into real estate now. So that's where the money at. Yeah. Just, you know. So that's what you're doing down here in Texas? No. So in Atlanta, we closed on some acres of land, a lot of acres of land.

And let's see what, you know, it's not my will. Let's see what Allah leads me with this wellness retreat. Okay. Oh, you bought a bunch of land to build a wellness retreat. Yeah. Well, more and more people are going to be turning to that. Agro tourism. Yes.

It's what it is. Agro tourism. Yeah. For sure. That's where the money at. Yeah. Yeah. Now you're not just pretending to be a real estate agent now.

No, I'm not just pretending to be a real estate agent. Now, does part of you... Do I miss it? That's right. Because you played this character. I mean, certainly that I've had to feel exciting. Like you were, you had this backstory, you were, and the rush of being able to pull this thing off to be able to walk out with two hundred thousand dollar watches. Like, do you ever, you miss it?

No. But do you look back and say that was exciting? It was exciting. And I wish I'd be looking back like, damn, I could have did X, Y and Z were all this money, like, you know? Yeah. But do I miss it? Absolutely not. No.

I love my children, like, and it's like even more. Or like, my kids is my everything. Without them, I'm nothing. I was telling my son, when we's on our way here, I was like, you see how much, because we went to IHOP and they forgot to give him his syrup. And I was like, I was rushing here. You know, I was like, well, I'm going to see if we can find some place on the way up. And it was a Wendy's.

I said, you see how much mommy don't play about y'all? Because he was like, no, I'm just going to wait until we get home or until we get back to the room so I can warm it up. I said, we're not going back to the room. We're going home after this. And he was like, well, I'm just going to wait. I'm like, no, you're going to eat your waffle now. So, yeah. I don't play about my children.

Like, my children's my everything. Your son that you have here is young, but do you, your oldest son obviously knows, well, you had two kids while you were in prison. Did they know your story? They must know this story of your life. How do they feel about that? They know my story. My oldest son, he has a lot of resentment towards me.

Really? But my 21-year-old, he loves me. He's embracing. He said, Mom, you know what? He was like, you went to prison and you never went back. He was like, our dad went to prison, and he's still in and out of prison. Right. So he don't hold no resentment.

He loved me. Okay. But just your oldest son? My oldest son, he, nobody told him to, he, he's in some trouble, and nobody told him to do what he did. I didn't put a, nobody put a gun to your head, told you to go out and come to grind. I don't blame my mother for nothing I've done. Nobody did put a battery in my back for me to go and do the things I did. I chose to do it.

So, you know? Yeah. Yeah. How is your mom? She's good. We're not. Did she get off of drugs? No. Oh, my God.

Wow. Is your grandmother still alive? My grandma passed away while I was incarcerated. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's the hardest part, man. Yeah. That is the most brutal part. Yeah.

Well, I hope, you know, it's probably because your son was older, remembers you being away, you know, but I wish the best for him. Me too. Maybe he's got to do some time. I'll tell you what, doing time was, you know, it ended up working out for me. Right. I needed to, you know, take a seat for a little bit and kind of think about where I was going and what I really wanted to do.

So, but this was really fun. It was. Did I give you the story you wanted, Johnny? Yes. Oh, my goodness. I was very stern with your manager, whoever I was like. Right. My publisher.

You were. I was like, she has to talk about crime. It's a crime podcast. I'm sorry. Is that too much to ask? I was like, Johnny, I'm so tired. I'm talking about my story. I know.

But this will be to a whole new audience. And I think I hopefully captured something that was different than some of the other podcasts. And you did. Good. Good. And then I hopefully got a side. out of you that was different. You did.

Because you were a well-rounded person. Thank you. And that's what we try to do on this show is try to bring out all the elements of the human being, you know, just encasing it in your criminal story. And you have to be authentic because the audience know when you're lying. Yeah. They don't play. For sure.

They will, baby, they will stab you. Yeah. Well, some of them always think you're lying. So again, those are the comments. Don't worry about them. Don't worry about them. The DMs are the important ones. Yeah, and I get a lot of those.

Good. So follow her on Instagram one more time, please. And the links will be in the bio in the description of the episode. Okay. My Instagram is It's Bella Barco. My TikTok is Bella Barcode. And my Facebook is Bella Barcoe. And you can get my book in my bio on Instagram or you can go to www.

It's Bella Barcode.com. Cool. And we'll push all that. And all those links will be there. Denessa. Denise. Denisa, shit. Shouldn't have, should have got that up front.

Denise, Bella White. Thank you so much. This was a treat. And I wish you all of the success moving forward. Congratulations on your new baby. Being delivered on my birthday, February 6th, Aquarius. That's going to be, you got to watch out for her. She's going to get a little diva.

She's going to get a lot of money, though. She is. It runs on both sides. Her dad gets money legit and not get money legit. Hell yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. We will see you guys next week.

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