The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Surviving America's BLOODIEST Prison System: How A Virginia State Inmate Became A Stone-Cold KILLER

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

In this gripping, unfiltered interview, Banky Pound shares the raw truth about surviving 33 years in some of Virginia's most dangerous prisons. From witnessing murders on his first day to navigating the brutal inmate hierarchy and corrupt prison systems, Banky opens up about what it really takes to make it out alive. Raised in Washington D.C. during the 70s and 80s, Banky fell into a life of armed robbery as a teenager. A botched robbery led to a devastating sentence: life plus 100+ years. What followed was decades of violence, betrayal, and survival behind bars — including building a prison hustle, dealing with systemic racism, and the emotional toll of incarceration. Now free, Banky is using his story to uplift others and steer young people away from the same path. This is one of the wildest, most eye-opening prison stories ever told. Go Support Banky! IG: https://www.instagram.com/bankypound/ YouTube: @bankypound1932 This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: HIMS! Start your FREE online visit today at https://hims.com/connect for your personalized ED treatment options! BaySmokes! To get your free sample just head to https://baysmokes.com/pages/free-thca-flower-gram-sample/theconnect Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I seen dudes die on that first day. I seen dudes die on the day before they got out of prison. They have a coat on like this with no shirt on and a knife sticking out this way, knife sticking out that way. As I'm walking to myself in my mind, I'm already knowing I'm going to kill you. My Bethlehem is like 13, 14 years long. Thick, rusty steel came off the fence. I just pulled it out and I just came behind him and I just hit him right in the back.

walk out of that cell, you got to be ready to kill or to be killed. Banky Pound has the wildest prison stories ever told on this podcast. He grew up in Washington, D.C. in the 1970s and 80s and became a stick-up kid while he was still in high school, robbing pimps, drug dealers, and businesses at gunpoint throughout Maryland and Virginia. After a robbery gone wrong, where his co-defended shot and killed a man, Bankie got slammed with hundreds of years in prison. That's how they do folks in the South.

After witnessing a brutal murder of a fellow. inmate his first week in prison, Banky knew that he needed to become an animal. For the next 33 years, he never left his cell without a shank. You are about to hear some of the craziest stories of prison survival, so grimy and brutal you could hardly believe conditions like these still exist in America. A bankie survived through the riots, the stabbings, and the murder cases, and in 2020, he made parole. Now he's got one of the best prison YouTube channels on the internet. Check him out. He's all over the place, Banky Pound. And head over to Patreon for a bonus chat with Bankie. Patreon.com slash the Connect show.

Without further ado, this one is heart stopping, my friend, Banky Pound, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. People don't want you around them when they know you'll produce violence. You got to smash him because that is the message that sent to everybody else. And when he went to get up, I hit him again. It cut my whole hand open and his teeth came out in my hand. Up under him, it's like a pool of blood just getting bigger and bigger. And that was over.

less than $2. There's no winning in prison. It's just war at all times. So you're from Virginia, which is a Commonwealth. I'm from D.C., but I have roots in Virginia. So I was in both, but I'm born and raised in D.C. Okay. But I got family in VA.

So every summer, I'm in VA. Regular year, I'm in D.C. You know what I'm saying? Because you're a D.C. cat. Yeah, you see it. Parliament. All right. Chocolate City.

Yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? D. D. Is that what they call it? Chocolate City. Chocolate City. D.C. is called it chocolate city. Why?

Because it's mostly 90% black people. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Even though it's changed a little more now. It's still 90% black people. White people run it, but it's 90% black people. And because, you know, it's the home of the president.

Right. It's kind of like the country. It's kind of like the country. Right. You know what I'm saying? But, yeah, it's called Chocolate City. Home of the Go-Go. The own genre of music.

Everything. The roots in D.C. is huge, you know what I'm saying? We got some of the biggest hustlers that come out of D.C. We got some of the biggest rats turned out to be, you know, a rifle. You know what I'm saying? But you know, by the do it like he was doing it when he was on the street. You're talking about the man that's under 25 and bringing in $100 million a year. Right.

So, you know, but it's just the city is mostly predominantly black. And it's fascinating because it is D.C. It's its own state. It's its own nation state. And it's the south, but it's not. Right? So you've got this influence of like northern money making culture. Right.

From, you know, that comes from New York, Philadelphia, all the way down the eastern seaboard, Baltimore. Yes. But then it's also got this real like countryness to it. And, you know, like when I see photos of, you know, Virginia prisons, it, you really, I get a creepy feeling because it looks like slavery. It's a bunch of black people with a white guy on a horse. And you're like, oh, that makes me uncomfortable.

It's exactly slavery. Exactly slavery. And then they got these new prisons now like this up in the mountains, right? And like Red Onion, Wallace Ridge, King Mountain, right? I promise you with everything I love, man, it's when people ask me to explain it And the best definition that I can give is if you ever seen the movie, Roots, it's like Roots, man. I'm talking about the officers, the administration, the what they use, the N-word, like, is regular talking to you. Still.

In 2025? Yeah. Talk to you like that. And they have unaligned many people up there and gotten away with it. You know what I'm saying? It's like no other world, brother. I don't even know how they still. still even open.

Yeah. I mean, every inmate has a cell phone now. How are they not getting filmed saying the N-Word? They ain't got no damn cell phone up there. You ain't getting no cell phone. How are you going to get a cell phone up there? Everybody up there is chewing tobacco and hillbillies and shit. You ain't going to burn you nothing.

Right. You know what I'm saying? If you're asking for something, you'll end up in the hole with the handcuffs behind your back, getting beat by Billy Clubs. Right. You know, so yeah, that's the, out of 33 years the worst place I've ever been. Wow. And it's still open.

It's still open. I ended up there six years for a cell phone. Wow. Yeah. Insane. It's something you'd think you'd see in Mississippi, not like Virginia. Oh, no. This is in Virginia.

But out of this country. Well, you read on your, Google it. Read on you in Wallace Ridge. They have tried to shut them places down so many times. But it's the economy. It's the money. You know what I'm saying? They, they, um, dynamite, um, mountains.

and cleared them out to make this prisons for the economy because the only thing they had up there was coal mines. Right. So this helped it all of them. Yeah, now everybody that got laid off the coal mines is now working in the prison. They don't know anything about prison, but they know they don't like black people. They don't like anybody that's not white.

And you can pull up on them in there, tell you that straight. I pulled up on the warden one day. And I said, yo, man, I mean, what's going on, man? This is crazy right here a lot of the way. And you know, he literally told me, he said, well, man, this is the wardenia. He said, well, you know, a lot of officers that we have here, man. They didn't grow up around black people and they don't like black people, so you have to understand that.

You know what I'm saying? So you just have to understand that and work with them. Just trying to stay out of their way and do your time, man, and get from up here. Yeah. Instead of, like, hey, you should tell them not to, yeah, you should tell them not to be like that. If you don't like black people, what the hell is you working in prison for when it's predominantly black? Yeah.

What is you talking about? And he literally told me that and I looked at him and I understood who I was talking to. And I was like, oh, okay, all right. Yeah. But that just put it all in perspective for me. So the prisons on the state level in Virginia are predominantly black? Predominantly black. Yeah, yeah.

It's like 80%. Now, real quick, before we get into your childhood, being from D.C. Where the cats that were catching charges, I heard a lot of that goes federal because it's in D.C. Is that true? It ain't a lot of it, all of it.

All of it. If you commit any crime in D.C., you're going into Feds. Even if you're, oh, I just, I'm, I burglarize some houses. Right. It's Lorton. You're going to Lorton.

Lorton is federal prison. Okay. Because you're in D.C., you're in the nation's capital. It's going to be considered a federal crime. Right. You pull a robbery in Virginia, you're going to get a robbery charge.

You pull a robbery. robbery, and you're going to the state. You put a robbery in, D.C., you're going to Lorton, you're going to the feds. And is that why the D.C. blacks are one of the biggest cars in the federal system? Biggest cars in the federal system, because once they shut Lorton down, they put all of them dudes in the federal system because they feds. They consider fads. But Lorton was one of the most dangerous, most vicious prisons in the United States for decades.

You know, they ended up shutting it down. my understanding because it was, man, they got so vicious in there. It's like, I know you've been in the feds and stuff, but it was so vicious in there that, like, okay, I'm beefing with you and I'm trying to get you and I can't get you. Or I can get you, but he got so serious with them in there. It was like, okay, well, this, this ain't working. Okay, we want to take it to the next level. See, and there and Lawton, I remember even because I had kin folks in there, you can get called for a visit and then somebody else can just. call somebody they can come up there and they can come in there and visit.

So when people was going in there for a visit, say, I got a beef with you. And then somebody in there telling me, you in the visiting room. So then I call my people and tell them to come up so they can call me out. So when they call me out, then I run over there and I stab your people. They came to visit me. Yeah. Holy shit. That's you, your people.

That happened? Yeah, a lot. That's why they started. That's what eventually shut it down. Then it was happening so much did they start sending them in the regular visits with the and handcuffs on. And it was just so much that they just shut it down. And then they sprinkled all of them people into the federal system.

But at first they put them in Virginia. They was in Virginia. They was in Sussex 2 and Sussex 1 when it was just opening. When I went there, I went there in 2002 when they opened it for Virginia inmates. So when I get there, they have the Lorden guys there. They're transitioning into the feds. But right now they're here until they can get placed. So it was good for me

Because I met a lot of homies And it was giving me stuff That nobody else had We couldn't have a TV We couldn't have our property For like three, four months But the Lord and dudes was workers So we locked in all the time

And they come over in the part and work So I was seeing dudes I know And homies they was I had cigarettes I had TV smuggled a TV in there So I was doing good But they eventually sent them all out And all them dudes was leaving

There stuff there Because they couldn't take anything To the feds It couldn't take their TVs. It couldn't take nothing. You know what I'm saying? So then they all ended up in the fares. So that's, you know, the D.C. car and the fares is they all stayed together.

You know, don't matter if you from southeast, northeast, whatever, they stayed together. You know, in fact, I was just talking to my homeboy who was in the fares and he got his self out. Might be a good plug for you, too. I told him I was going on here today. I talked to him about an hour ago. He has a channel called D.C. blacks. Very smart dude named E. And he was with all of the who's, whose.

That would be interesting. He did, he got to get him on here. He did 17 years. And look, got his self out. Won't post to be out to this day. He went in that law library, got his self out, used a retroactive, law to get him out.

You understand? So very, very smart. I got a D.C. Black Channel now. Why do you think southern prisons are the way they are? Even today, like, they're conditions that you find. in like third world countries. I mean, people getting stabbed in the middle of the day room. You know, we see it videos of these things pop up.

Is it the corruption? Is it because they have less resources? Because these are like known to be poorer places? Is it because you guys have so much time? Why is it that places like Virginia all the way down to Texas are just horribly run places? I think it's a combination of all of that because you're giving people, you're giving people more time than humanly possible. You know what I'm saying?

Like me, I had two life sentences, 115 years when I first went in. Ended up with two, one-thirty. There's no court time in there. But, brother, you don't live with one life. How can I have two life? You know what I'm saying? Like the Richard Pryor joke? You heard that?

I met a motherfucker with three life sentences. He got to die and then come back to this motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's insane. And I know dudes with six life sentences, five, four, or whatever the case may be. I've known them all. But the thing about it is this,

it's so, run so unorganized. It's unreal, bro. Listen, listen, this is a true story. I know dudes came to prison. I was talking about this over there on my life. Came to prison with a murder charge. Right.

I went to prison with a murder charge or robbery charge. Eventually ended up in prison getting a, um, malicious wound charge, right? But I know dudes came to prison with a murder charge. In prison, with a murder charge. Get a murder in prison and got out before me. You said me how it is.

There's no rhyme or reason. There's no consistency. I know dudes with six life sentences. I know two in particular, very close to both are out on the street walking now. Six life sentences. Both did less time to me. Only one did like a year less than me. One of them did 32.

The other one did 15. But laws got them out. But six life sentences. But yet I tell you, Bo Billy is still in prison without a life sentence, without a murder. You're not doing 50. Doing 50. I know what his home boy, Spooke does. 50 on year 52.

See what I'm saying? So it's like, it's no rhyme or reason. In Virginia is a life sentence. What does that consider? a minimum 30 or life sentence is you go up for parole you're supposed to go off of parole after 12 years if you got life if you got anything over like one two three four or five i just got to point out not a bad deal not a big paper on paper because if you come from place like oregon the complete opposite of virginia there's not a lot of black people even in prison

uh there's not a lot of violence in prison but if you get life That means life, baby. You are, there is no, you're not going to see the board. Right. It's life without. Okay. It's the same thing, though. Because in Virginia, you go up in 12, but you ain't going to make it.

They don't parole people. Man, they had 2% parole ratio for over 35 years. There's no one making parole. That's just a formality. I see. I went up, I didn't even go up and. in 12, which I was opposed to, but I know why I go up more time. So I end up going up 18 on the 18th year.

I still got 10 times before I made it. You went to the board 15 times. 15 times. Oh, because you went every year after 18th year. Every year after that. And then they implemented some board job with that saying when it was that like 2000 something, something they implemented it. Now you can go up.

You're supposed to go up every year, but they can implement giving you a two-year hit. Three-year hit, six-year hit. Meaning when I go up, if you turn me down, they say, I'll see you six years later. Or I'll see you three years later. You don't even go up for that time in my mouth. So it was crazy. I only got one.

I got one on the first year that I went up. First year I went up, they gave me a three-year hit. It was like, no, you're not even qualified. I'll see you three years later. After that, I went up every year, and I got turned down 15 times, man. And was your behavior getting better? Yeah.

What year do you? Because a lot of cats who get life sentences like you, or de facto life sentences, they, for their first 10 years, they're violent. Because why wouldn't you? Like, you expect to die in there, so they're bringing in balloons,

they're stabbing people, they're getting in fights, they're talking shit to the officers. But then usually, they mature, and they realize I don't want to be a war for the rest of my life if I got to be in here. What year did you feel like you started to, you know,

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With me, it probably was a little different because of the circumstances, you know, I'm from Virginia, but I'm not from Virginia. So it ain't, like, most of my time was in D.C., they don't know me. So I'm a little guy, so I got to demonstrate. That's just what I had to do, you know what I'm saying? So when I first, like I said, when I first went to, I went to receiving South Ham to, receiver. I ended up getting in the fight in there over some, some bullshit that wasn't even my fault, but I ended up getting in the fight. Now, they're looking at the charge that I got, the time that I got, they immediately locked me up and shipped me to the wall, which was the

worst prison in the state of Virginia. Okay, but hold on. I don't want to, because I want to talk about how we got there, okay? Because it's, it's strange to me because you're a good guy. I can tell, and you're, you know, you had a mom who was strict. For sure. You know, you grew up. Did you grow up? Like, what was childhood like? Man, my mom was, um, I loved the death, man.

Right now she's the sweetest thing in the world. The grandkids, I don't even know who this woman is with these grandkids because they get anything they want. Right. I got, I got the belt. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? She won't play no game.

She ain't, you know, she was, she took care of four kids on her own, you know. She was a superhero for sure. Where was dad? My dad passed away when a guy. I killed when I was in New York when I was like 12. Hmm. You know? Over what?

Do you know? I don't know. I don't know. He was in New York or he was in New York? He was in New York. He was in New York and, um. Was he a hustler? No.

Do you have any of that in your family? Mm-hmm. Oncoles or anything? I got a lot of that in my family. But it wasn't him, you know, but whatever the case was, he was in some type of education. And, um, all I know is I was woke up at like two in the morning. and my mom crying and wake my sister up and whatever. And they told us, you know what I'm saying?

Boom, come on, let's go. Went on my grandmother of a house. Everybody was crying. I didn't understand what was going on. I'm like, what's happening? And it was like, boom, you know, my father was gone. You know, it's like they found them in the Hudson River, tied up, you know, floating. So it was crazy to me.

And I couldn't understand it at the time, but I'm like, wow, you know what I'm saying? That's like super crazy to me. So, yeah. Traumatizing. You're 12 years old and you've just lost your father brutally. Yeah, and I was like, I didn't understand that, man. And, you know, my mom, man, she did a good job. My uncle, my uncle did a good job.

He was more like a father figured to me for the most of my life. And he was a rough, tough guy, man. And I think my mentality comes from him. He was more or less like with me and my brother, like, you know, you're a grown man. Once you become a man, you don't take no else. You don't let no man do nothing to you. You don't understand.

You don't take whippers when you're a kid. You don't take whippers as a grown man. I don't care what you got to do. Pick something up, use something. I don't care. And my mom used to be like, man, don't tell him kids that don't you, don't get him in trouble. And he just looks straight now and say, I'll get you out of it.

But you don't let nobody do nothing to you. I don't care what you do. So it's like when I was like 15, I think my brother, brother was like 13 and a dude played a trick on them and you know told him hold on me show you something you know the blindfold back up back up and bagged them up made them step in some dog poop and he on some new shoes so he was crying and oh yeah and they laugh and there was older kids you know what I'm saying like 19 20 so my brother going by my uncle's philosophy he's see him like two or three days later sitting on the corn to talk to his buddy smoking cigarettes

my brother came up behind him with a center block and bust his head open and almost put him in a coma you know, and that guy ended up becoming later on in life becoming like one of the head detectives. Oh shit. Oh no. One of the head detectives in that city

and it was crazy because but that was the mentality that our uncle instilled in it's like you know what I'm saying? And you, hey, you win at all cause, man. It ain't nothing fair in this, but you don't take weapons. So he became the father figure in my life. And he, unfortunately, he passed away when I was locked up.

So I never, after I got locked up, I was never able to be around him again, you know. Well, this, that reminds me of your, the first time you had to stab a dude in prison. It was kind of over one of these bullying situations. Yeah. And you probably weren't thinking it consciously at the time, but your uncle's lessons. were instilled in you. Yeah. It's in my head, and I'm looking at it.

Dude is probably like the biggest dude on the compound. If not, he, right there. And he was locked up for murder charge. And a vicious murder at dead. I mean, like, put up, to my understanding, put up on somebody at the stop, like, I would have sought off and blah, blah, blah. So my philosophy is if you took life under any circumstance,

I know it's in you. You understand? And he told me you he was going to kill me. He said, I'm going to end up killing you, man. And he didn't like me for nothing, no real reason. You didn't like me because of what I had going on with somebody else. So, you know, but little did I know, he was illiterate. And this dude was helping him with his mail and his reading and all of this and all of that.

So when I got this situation going on with this dude, he's like, leave him alone so he's thinking he can lean on me. I can't be leaned on. You know what I'm saying? And I try to warn him. And I had a homeboy, which is one of my best friends to the day. And hopefully he's back in waiting to get out any day now. And he was like, he kept telling him.

He was cool with the dude. I wasn't. So he kept telling me, he said, man, you better leave him alone, though. He ain't one of them dudes. And he was like, man, I don't like that little nigger. I don't like him. And I'm like, shh, man. And I told him.

I told my home boy, I said, you better tell him, man. You know, and then it just came to a head. And it was to the point when he said, man, I'm going to end up killing you. And that just stuck in my head. I'm like, oh, no, I'm not going to wait for you to do that. And I think he said this in front of a bunch of other people. He said in front of the whole block. Which is so dangerous.

Yeah. Because if you let that ride your fresh meat. And I'm like, somebody's going to kill me. So I said, yeah, you got that, man. Don't worry about it. I know I got it, man. You better get them. And I'm like, but in my mind, I'm walking up the stairs.

And as I'm walking to myself, in my mind, I'm already knowing I'm going to kill you. You know what I'm saying? I'm not even going to sit around and wait for you to do none of that. You know, so I go up and I go in my cell and I sit down, man, and I'm thinking about it. I literally can remember just thinking about it. Like, what they're going to do to me? What can happen to me? You know what I'm saying?

versus what he's saying he's going to do to me. You know what I'm saying? So I'm contemplating all of this, and I just came to conclusion. I said, man, oh, hell, he got to go. He got to go. You know, and I went down there, and I did what I did,

and he was, the whole goddamn attitude changed. You know, I'll stop doing. And that was a lesson for me, though, because that was like the first real, you know, with that weapon, that Bethlehem, you know, engagement I had.

It was a lesson for me. me that dudes can talk like they're going to kill you. They can intimidate you. They can put you in fear. But when shit really happens, they're not ready for that. You know, and he was with the court on me, man. Okay.

Yeah. Can you describe what happened? Yeah, he went. After you grabbed your knife. When I grabbed the knife, I came down there. He was working out. Right. And like I say, in my mind,

I boxed all my life. That's a prize fighter. That's in the ring. You get paid to do that. It's rules and regulations. In real life, there ain't no rules. In real life, it's a surprise fight. Not a prize fight.

I don't, however you can get it done, you get it done. You know? I'm not in no medieval times. I'm not going to duel with you. I'm not going to say, Johnny, get your knife and let me get mine. Let's go. I'm not doing that shit. I'm going to want to get hurt.

And that's my whole thing. I ain't trying to get hurt. I'm a little guy. I ain't trying to take no knife. You know what I'm saying? So I said, I'm going to get him. And so I go down and I know he thinking I'm scared. He thinking, you know, I ain't going to do nothing.

And I was plotting on him and I just watched him. And I watched him. And he was working out. So he was doing jumping jacks. No, he was doing sit-ups at first. He was doing them. And I'm watching and I'm counting. And he goes to the back door and he get up on him.

He's doing his sit-ups. He do like 50. He'd get up and walk a little lap around the block, go back, do 50 more. So I'm looking at him. And I'm saying, yeah. And I'm saying to myself like, yeah, when you go back and do the next set, I was, my plan was the phones are right beside the back door where he's doing the sit-ups at. My plan was, I know it's idiotic.

It sounds idiotic now, but at the time it sounded legit. I'm like, I'm going to go to the phone and I'm going to act like I'm on the phone. And when he go do them sit-ups, and when he leaned back, I was going to put it right in his forehead. Just put it in his forehead, walk away, act like I'm getting some hot water and go to myself. And I don't know what the hell happened. I don't know.

That was my plan. He stopped doing sit-ups. And he started doing jumping jacks. So I'm like, oh, okay. So I'm watching him do jump jacks. I watch him, he do 100. Same thing. Walk a lap, come back.

I watch him, he do another. And I said, okay, well, that's what you're going to do? I'm going to get you right there. So he had his back to me. And he just, fine, nah, nah. So I said, okay, when he came back to do the next set, I said, I look at the part. I said, I'm going to get his ass right now.

Are you on the yard? Is this the yard? No, we're in the park. Okay. We just came off a lockdown. Ain't no movement, no nothing. We just in pod wreck. We can't, we ain't even been out yet.

Close quarters. Close quarters. Everybody down there playing cars. Dudes is waiting to go to a shower. Dude is waiting in the line to go to phone, getting in the microwave. I'm standing on the stairs like a god-deggone lying. watching a gazelle.

I'm like, yeah, but I'm trying to act like I'm not watching them, but I'm watching them. Right. And sorry, cameras. Were they, did they have cameras at the time? No. Oh, geez. That's what made it even better. Yeah.

No. So I'm like, boom. I said, well, when we go back, I'm acting like, I'm looking over here, but I'm seeing him. And once he went back and he started his set, I was like, oh, yeah, okay. So I looked at the part. I see who was in there, what they was doing. And I make my way to him. And as he doing them, and I get both.

for me to YouTube, I just pulled it out. And I just came behind him, and I just hit him right in the back. And in my mind, you know, you young, man. In my mind, I had read something, seen some movie. Somewhere in my mind, I had it in my mind. They say, if anything pierces your heart, you automatically collapse. So I'm thinking, my Bethlehem is like 13, 14 years long. Thick, rusty steel came off the fence, right?

So I'm like, boom, I'm going to hit him right behind his heart. He's going to drop. I'm going to, same stuff. I'm going to go to the hot water Joan. Give me some water and go to myself. I don't know what happened. That's what was my plan. When I hit him, boom, I hit him so hard.

My hand hit his back. It was like, you can hurry. Boom, like a punch. And he said, ah, the fuck, what the fuck? And he turned around. When he turned around, being the heat didn't drop, I was, like, Like a deer in headlights. I ain't know what to do.

So I just advanced on him and tried to hit him in the face. And he put his arm up and hit him in the arm. And it went through his arm. And it was all the way through his arm. And I tried to pull it out. And he was like, and I had to jerk it back. He was like, okay. Oh, you got it, man.

Oh, hey, that's enough. You got it. And I said, man, I told you, man. You know, don't play with me, man. He was like, okay, okay. And my homeboy just locked up right now. He was like, he called me. He was like, Scott.

Everybody's looking at you. Come on, man, leave him alone. So I look around everybody in the park and stop playing cars and stop doing it. Everybody like this. And I'm like, oh, shit. So I cuff it under my arm and I started walking away. And as a walking away, going to myself, I heard. And I turned around and look, he didn't snatch the coat off of somebody that's playing cars

and started wrapping his arm up. Like, I'm going to kill you my kid. So I said, okay. So I started going at him. and he started going around the table. And then as he was going around the table, he just, and he just dropped.

I could have killed him. You know what I'm saying? But everybody's looking at me. I'm standing over top of him now. He's laid down with a car with a junk right halfway around his arm, you know, and he just,

and my home boy again, that's why I love him to this day. That's why I'm waiting for him to get out. He was like, leave him alone, Scott, leave him alone. He called me Scarface. You know, he said, leave him alone, Scott, leave him alone.

Just go to your cell. man. So I started going to my cell and I was so paranoid so in a zone his cell partner at the time was my home boy too. One of the few dudes from D.C. But I'm

thinking, Yoselli, you're with your cellie. And as I'm coming up the stairs, he's standing in the door and I said, you with him? You with him? And he was like, no, I ain't got nothing to do with that shit. And he hit his door and got his door closed. So when his door closed, I go up to his door, I say, you would him? If you come out to his

saying like you wouldn't. He said, man, I ain't got nothing to do with that bank. I ain't got nothing to do. I said, I'm just zoned. I'm zoned out. I go down to my cell. There's another dude named low. I'd never forget him. He was cool to him. He ended up dying in prison. He said, he came down to me. He was like, man, give me the knife, man. They're going to come get you.

I said, man, I ain't getting him no knife. Man. I said, that joker might come back. He might, bro, he's not coming back. But I was gone. First time I'm gone. I'm paranoid. He was like, man, he's not, I said, bro, he might come back. He's, man, what is you talking about? Let me get the knife.

These people don't come get you? I said, no. So I went and put it back in my bag. I put it in the hiding spot, and I'm thinking, boom, come back out. I'm laying it on the rail. It's about 15, 20 minutes later. They just come in the party. Everybody, lock up, lock up, lock up, everybody.

Go to your cell, go to sell, go to sell. Come right to me. Come right and get me. So he told. Yeah, he told. Straight off. But see, this, this, this is what they be doing in VA. Crazy, diabolical.

You get hurt. You get stabbed. You get whatever. They won't take you to medical. When they're taking you to medical, they say, tell me who did it. They said, I need help. They said, you better tell us who did it, man, for you. And they put that pressure on them.

So he stole, he told, but did he put that pressure. I learned that later on in my bit when I did something to somebody else. They put that pressure on. They're like, you may get me to the husband. They're like, who did it? You want to get to the house and tell us who did it? Wow. And they'll put that pressure on it, and dudes is heard, and they bleed, and they're thinking they're going to die.

Johnny did it, you know. You can understand, almost. To a point, but he's still told. You know what I'm saying? And being that he did that, when they gave me a street case, he had to show up in court. But when he showed up in court, he had like a fool. He got a handcuffs and shotguns and shot because I'm trying to get to me. What are you going to do to me?

Your headbutting me? Spit on me. What are you going to do? And the judge said, man, get this out of my courtroom and dismiss it. So that helped me. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Okay.

So that is brutal. So they might just let you bleed out if you don't want to tell. Oh yeah. If you don't tell, man, they'll be. I have erectile dysfunction. I don't even need to read the copy for this, okay? Because this product is near and dear to my heart. I've had erectile dysfunction since I was in high school.

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the episode under Bay Smokes. So this is a killer company, guys. Happy to be with them. Go claim that. dude, Bay Smokes. Thank you for being part of the Connect. These guards, the administration in places like Virginia, are they mostly black? On flatland. Flatland meaning not in the mountains. If you're on flatland, like the regular prisons,

the normal ones, you know, Greensville, Sussex, Greensville, Sussex, Brunswick, Buckingham, Southampton, all these is Flatland prisons. it's going to be predominantly black seals. But they're not nice either, though. They're boot lickers. Boot lickers.

That's an old term. Well, let me get to you like I get to it on my own channel. Boot licking Uncle Tom, Jeffro, Bodine, tap dancing. They just, only thing black about them is their color. You know what I'm saying? They do anything for the administration. They adhere to your misery. they make their living off of your, you know, downfall,

and they don't care nothing about you, you know what I'm saying? And I don't care nothing about them. So they bootlickers, so they ain't no different. To be honest with you, to keep it a thousand, if you get a black, a white CO on flatland, not in the mountain, but on flatland, he's going to treat you better than the black CO. Because he, whatever you're supposed to have,

he's going to make sure you have it. Whatever the rules is, he's going to follow. These boot lickers, shh, and they don't, man. Hey, man, I ain't get no pillow. I ain't got my stuff out, but, okay, oh, you'll get it? I mean, I need, no, you'll get it, man. And the first time you raise your voice, oh, you threatening me,

you know, it's they boot lickers, man. Yeah, yeah, but in the mountains, predominantly white. It's all honkies. Yeah, and they inwarding you down. I'm talking about straight up to you, be like, um,

hey, did you, did you go to come Saturday day, nigger? What? Wow. Yeah.

It's fascinating, being in a place that's, that was so inappropriate and taboo forever. It's fascinating that that still exists in America.

Well, I was up there doing the, shortly after the Trayvon Martin verdict. Right. I literally,

I was the barber. So I had to go in the office to turn my equipment in. Young white guy, C.O. Probably about 24, 25. So him and another officer in there, and when I walk in to turn the equipment and I knock on the door, he said, come on in. They're in there talking about Trayvon Martin, right, in the case.

This is a conversation. man you know that fucking nigger was out there to do something bad you know he was that fucking hoodie on he had a fucking hoodie on you know what he was out there he was fucking trying to rob somebody so why is they making all of this fuss and they're talking about this right in front of me right why is they making all this fuss like it's wrong and what Zimmerman did I would have shot his fucking ass too he was out there and I'm like so I'm putting this stuff up right and in my mind I'm saying to myself act like you just can't hurt this stuff just act like you can't hurt and he's gonna call me he asks me

he's hey tell the truth let's be honest we know you black but you know that fucking motherfucker was out there trying to rob some shit

so I'm just looking at him right and I'm like no I don't know what he was trying to you fucking know what he was trying to do you know

God damn well you all there with a hoodie and I'm like hey bro I say I'm just trying to turn this stuff you know

I you know but I I remember just going to my cell, man, and I was just praying, man. I was like, man, I want to bash their fucking face in so bad. You know what I'm saying? What gives you the audacity to even speak to me like that? You know what I'm at?

You know, and you got to know where you're at when you're up there because these institution alone, if you Google it right now, bro, they got, I know it's anywhere between three to five, six unsolved murders at the hands of officers. You know what I'm saying? And ain't nobody got convicted or nothing. You see what I'm saying? So I know where I'm at.

I've seen them put you in handcuffs and beat you down. You know what I'm saying? And you can't even write a grievance up there. You can't even write a complaint up there about the situations about the officers. If you write it and you said give me a grievance, they literally ask you, which is your right? They literally, what you wanted for? Who you writing up? And you write it up and you give it to them to turn in

because you got to give it to them turning it. They look at it and they turn that shit up right in front of your face. Yeah. Man, I ain't turning this in. Hey, bro, this isn't even about you. I ain't writing on you. It don't matter. Turn it right up in your face, bro.

And you can't do nothing. If you're buck, they're going to give you a fake charge. They're going to lock you up. They're going to say you had a knife on you. They'll put one on you. They said you had a knife on you. They said you have a year. the knife he tried to stab the officers why you laid up in segregation somewhere healing up with a

broke arm or missing tooth or something you know what I'm saying yeah so it's really like a the modern plantation oh yeah the modern slave driver not the slaver right these white boys don't have anything they're they're almost as miserable as the people that they're guarding well they is I'm not saying this to be funny I'm not saying this because of my disposition against them. I'm saying this because it's facts. Go check. But they inbreed up there, bro. But you ain't never seen... I don't think anybody doubts that. Right, you have never in your life, have you ever in your life seen a five-foot-two guy with a 22

side shoe? You got 22 side shoes up there, bro, and you just tall, it looked like some bozo type stuff. And then you got dudes that got heads so big. then when they got on fitted hats, it's not even plugged in in the back, it's just open. You got women up there with size 13 shoes

and chewing tobacco. Yeah. And spitting out snuff while they're talking to you, walking around doing count with a cup in their mouth on. Where you need, you need requests for a woman.

Get out, man, come on, man. And they put us in here and they let these people have authority over us. You understand? And they despise us. Sure. So you're on shaking ground. It don't matter what your gangster is.

It don't matter how tough you is. They got the numbers. They got the handcuffs. They got the guns. They got the dogs. You cannot win. Your only objective is to do what you got to do to get off of that, which is a task in itself. You got to go three years charge free to get up, to be even put in to get off of there.

What is this prison called? Wallace Ridge and Red Onion. Wallace Ridge and Red Onion. In Red Onion. onion they're right beside each other it's a washing machine washing and dry if you get in a charge on wallace ridge they're saying to the red onion you got to stay on red onion for two or three years charge free to move back down then you move back down to wallace ridge then you got to stay on there two or three years charge free to even come back down to flat land now how you're going to stay

charge free when they just give you a charge because they say oh we ain't got enough charges just quarter we got to write some charges and they just walk around all day and write 20 charges oh uh johnny ain't stand for count when you stay And at the door like this from counting. Oh, he ain't standing for counting. Man, it's insane up there, bro. How, it's going back to when you had to stab this dude, which definitely, there's so much mitigating circumstance in that. Because you'd seen somebody get brutally murdered, like almost your first week inside.

So you felt like this was self-defense stabbing this dude. Definitely. So the turtles come and they wrap you up. couldn't find the knife in your cell, I believe, right? No. Dumbasses. Really? Good at the house, though.

Okay, good. Where'd you hide the knife? Man, at the time, well, I don't know how the fair sales are, but okay, you know how you got the steel desk, right? Right behind the steel desk, it usually be a steel plate that's welded to the wall. This particular cell that I was in, it looked like it was welded to the wall, had the screws and everything, but you can literally get it, pull it out, and put the knife behind that, push it back, and it just looked like it's welded against the wall,

and it never would be the wiser. Shawshank, redemption type shit. Yeah, it never would be the whine. I had heard it that knife because it was a dude that did 20, 30 years. He was in that cell. He told me, he literally told me, I had this knife for 17 years. The knife was rusty, but it was official.

It was thick, thick as my finger. long point on it and everything. And so a dude can get hepatitis is anything from even if he don't, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So he was like, boom, man, is in there. He said, look, there's a hiding place in there

behind the panel, man. You can get this. Woo-d-o-o-da-woo. So I was like, boom. So my initial plan was to get in the cell just try to get it. But that's hard because you got to try to talk to the dudes and, man, let me get in your cell

for a minute and there. There ain't anybody going for that. You know what I'm saying? So I waited and I waited and I plodded and I told the dude, man. man, I'm trying to get the cell, man. I'm trying to buy that cell, man. I'm going to be down there in the corner, man.

I'm doing some things with a woo. So I worked it out and I got in the cell. Now, I was in my mind. I'm like, man, this young better be here. I didn't went through all. I got in there. It was behind there. So I left it there.

And I didn't have to use it until that incident. See, most dudes is walking around with that knife on them. Or they flash it or they show you and let you know it. They don't do nothing to you. They just want you to be scared and won't keep that weight off of them. You should never show. that Bethlehem and tell you're going to use it. And when you pull it out,

it's supposed to come back with some blood on it. Or you should not never pull it out. So I knew once I got it out, I was going to use it. I knew it, you know what I'm saying? Because, like I say, the threat was there. And I'm looking at the fact that this man, a murderer. You know the man, this is a bohemist. I'm not playing with this joker.

You know what I'm saying? Because, I mean, once when I saw what you said in the wall, when I see the dude get killed, man, within my first week in there, I'm not even going to lie to you, bro. It shook me up. It shook me. Well, that was a piece of trauma that when I was heard it, when I listened to it on a different podcast, you told that story.

I mean, I was sweating afterwards. It shook me up. And you were 19 years old. And you saw this guy. Well, tell us what happened. And then we'll finish up with. I was on the phone, man. And, you know, in the walls, oldest prison.

in Virginia. It's called the wall? It's called the wall. It was the oldest prison in Virginia. It's called 500 Spring Street. All right, class settled down. Today's lesson is on the Arco Rewards app. Try to stay with me. The fundamentals are simple. Earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards, then redeem them later for up to a dollar off every gallon. Now here's where it gets complicated. Oh, wait, it doesn't. It's as simple as downloading the Arco Rewards app to get started. Class dismissed. Savings of up to $1 per gallon redeemable with $20 rewards dollars

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Already not a good place. There's a lot. Richmond is hood. Bro, you can literally, I can literally look out of my window and see people walking up and down the street. Yeah, from my prison window, bro. That's like torture. sell.

Yeah. You see free people. They're like right there. You just can't reach them. It's like, and women used to walk by and flash you and, you know, it bent over. That's nice. Yeah, it's nice, but that shit is like 100 feet away. And you can't, you know, it was crazy.

I'd never forget it because it was literally a house in front of myself where this dude, little boy, he couldn't have been no more than 12 or 13. He had a go cart. And he used to ride that go cart. And then he would disappear in like a truck. trail in the woods. He'd go all the way around and come out. And he'd just come out and he'd go back in.

He'd just be riding. And I just sit there and watch it for hours and hours and hours. And which I could do it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So. We also have a lot of bad motherfuckers in Virginia prisons because they come from a lot of hard-ass places. And there's a lot of murderers and a lot of just hard rocks.

I don't know what else to say. The wall had them all. And they had them all. That's what all of them was housed. this is the worst of the worst, this is where it's at. And they put me in there, man, for a fight straight from receiving, a fist fight, no weapons, no nothing. They put me there. So I'm here, and now I'm in the thick of it.

I'm in prison. This is prison. Receiving one thing. This is prison. And I'm seeing all this stuff going on around me, and I'm already, like, nervous purpose. And I'm like, man, this is crazy. Dudes is walking around. Like I say, dudes don't really walk around with the knife on.

Oh, they did in there. They did in there. They have a coat on like this with no shirt on. And I was sticking out this way, knife sticking out that way. The whole time I was there, Johnny, I never had a shake down. They don't even come check.

So everybody is scrapped. You understand? So I'm like, man, this is crazy. So I'm on the phone. And this big dude, man, he was built in a head thing, big. He had long dress. He's just walking up and down the tear.

I've noticed everything around when I get on the phone. I'm like this on the phone. I'm watching the pod, but my back is to the wall. So it's like 30, 40 phones on the wall. The pot is like extremely long. It's like the wall is built like Shawshank Redemption Block. The bars. It's not doors.

So everybody is out there and he's walking up and down. People is walking back and forth. They're chatting. They kicking it. And then he just come down one time and this dude coming up. and this dude coming up, he's coming up. He just pulled that young out, man,

and just said, yeah. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then the dude fall down, and he's just, damn, and I'm thinking, Nick, he's beating the shit out of this dude. And then I started saying blood. And I'm looking close,

and I said, oh, he got a knife in his hand. So it just, in my mind is like immediate turn. I'm like, God damn, I never seen nobody get stabbed like that. Like that vicious, like, and I'm like, what the fuck? And I'm like, boom, and I'm talking to my mom,

and I can hear my mom saying, hey, bang it, bang it. And I'm like, I'm not saying that. I'm like, frozen. I'm like looking at this. I'm like, and then dude, he just stopped. And dude was just down there. He just pulled it out. He just started walking in the tear.

And he's tucked it. And he just walking. And he was like laying out there and goggling it. Some blood and trying to get up. He's trying to set up. He can't even set up. And I'm seeing this. And it's like up under him is like a pool of.

blood is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and I'm like man what the fuck and yeah somebody will tell you just trying to come over and be hard or whatever like they want I was scared to death I ain't got no weapon I ain't got shit I'm like man what they're doing up in this mom you know and ain't nobody doing nothing you know I trying to help them people walking around them then they say you know you see uh footprints of blood because they're walking in the blood and the blood is all up and down It's supposed to be laying down there dying, man, and y'all ain't even trying to help this dude. There was no guards, no emergency.

Nobody came on that month, but they didn't come on there until we locked up up and they dragged him up out of there, man. They got him up out of there. You know what I'm saying? So I saw that in my mind. I'm like, God damn, banked that could be you. You know what I'm saying?

And I'm like, and dude ain't even get locked up. So they didn't even arrest the guy. Hell no. They were going to tell on them. So I'm seeing what the playing field is. So I'm like, oh, yeah. So at that. That point in time right there, that's when you got to decide what you're going to do.

How you're going to do this? I'm sitting on two hell knows. Yeah. I ain't even got, I ain't even a year and a half in. Right. I'm like, man, bro. So I would be lying. If I tell you, I'd be lying if I tell you, suicide ain't crossed my mind, bro.

That shit costs my mind, bro. I said, I can't live like this, bro. There's no way I can live like this for however long. And I don't even know how long. I don't even know if I'm even going to get out. So it crossed my mind, man. I'm talking about for a minute, dog. And I was like, damn.

Then I started thinking about my family. I started thinking about my kids. And I'm like, damn, bro. So it's like it's going to force you to make a decision on what you're going to do. You know? And I'm like, I'm like, man, bro. I started thinking about my uncle, man, you know, and what he said to me. And I'm like,

if somebody killed me, bro, they're going to, they're going on with me. They're just going with me, bro. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to die. I definitely don't want to die. But I'm not going to be like him. I'm not going to just let somebody stab me to death and I can't do nothing. You know what I'm saying?

So I made it in my mind. I said, going to get me a knife, man. I'm getting me a goddamn knife. And I remember this dude down on the bottom tee. I remember when I first came in and I heard just that in the third of bottom since I had been in there. And they said, man, he's like red on Shawshay. Anything you want, he can get that shit. Anything.

He's already been down 30 years. He's P.I. He got everything. He got a boy sleep right beside him. That's his boy. He got a boy sleep on the other side of him. He right here. He's loaning the police real money.

And, yeah, with interest, he's selling this. This boy is crocheting and selling Afghans to the police and scarves and sweaters and to inmates and this dude right. to five and six different women getting money sending. He liked the dude. Oh, he's the mayor. He's the guy. And he can get his door open and close whenever he wants to.

So I'm like, shit, I'm going holl at him. So I go down there holl him. I was like, man, hey, man, let me hollet you. He was like, what you want? Fas talking old guy. I said, oh, man, I just want him. He said, he was like, man, I need a knife. He said, you got some money?

I said, I can get some. He said, I'm on to my cash money. I said, I can get it. He said, well, talk to me when you get some money. I said, when you want it? He said, as soon as you can get it, I don't know you ain't talk to it. So I was like, all right, shit. I went in that visiting room that weekend, and I got the money.

And I came back, you know, I came back in. And I was like, boom, I went straight to his cell. He on the bottom floor. We come in, we're on the bottom. I go straight to his cell. I was like, look, hey, man, I got that all. I got that thing, man. He was like, what you got?

I said, I got the money. He said, can't? I said, yeah. He said, let me see it. So I'm like, I'll get this in my money. He's behind this door. So I said, boom, I showed him. He said, no, put your hand in the bars. I put my hand in the bars. I put my hand in the head. Look at the shit. I don't know. What the hell are you thinking? Like, it's counterfeit. How are you going to know? You know what I'm saying? But he gets it and everything.

How much cash is it? I get him $50 bill. That's all it's a hell. That's so wild. Most people get paid. Like, I'm going to have my people on the outside, send it to your people. Yeah. But in the South, it's fucking cash in prison. That is so crazy. Yeah, cash, man, it's like where I was at in Virginia, it's double. If you got $20 is worth 40.

If you got 50, it's worth of $100. You know, but they're going to use that to swindle with the police. Right. You know, so I gave him the money, and he said, put your hand back in the bars. Put my hand in the bars. I got my coat on. And he take a paper bag and he push it in my sleeve. And he said, I go ahead.

man, get on away from him. I said, all right. So I can feel the motherfucker. I'm like, boom, I go. I get up to my cell. And shit, I had to wait for the police come to open. I'm out there for like two hours, right? Waiting for the police open my cell.

They open my cell. I go in, they leave and shit. Right. I put that, boy, Johnny, when I pull that joint out, boy, I said, good God, oh, my. I'm a jagged it is. It was a real knife. Rubble grip.

Wow. The crampus on, like, the Rambo shit. So I'm like, dang. I said, okay, so I'm all up in the cell like, like, what is it? Boys in the hood when you had swam! I was like, I kill one of y'all. You put up on me, I tell you? You know what I'm saying?

So I'm like, boom, like, boom. And just like I had that thought, man, it was like, man, they probably were on 30 seconds later. And I was like in there, and I'm all in my cell, like, man, I'm stabbed. And I said, oh, shit. And I look at that, Joan. I said, damn. I just got here. And this is what I could buy for $50.

And I said, what the hell they got all there? Right. And then I got scared again. Dude, it's like Aladdin King of Thebes. It's like you guys got swords on you. These are like sabers. Yeah. And I'm looking at this and I'm saying, you know, you got to be real with yourself.

I'm saying, if somebody's standing with this, I'm probably gone. If it gives me right, I'm probably gone. If I ain't gone, I'm so messed up. I probably wish I was gone. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, if I could. can get this off the rip, this the first thing I can get. What they're working with out here?

So it just, it puts some more fear in me. Sure. So I'm like, damn. So then I was like, okay, my fuck say something to you, they, they pose a thread. Just move. Just move. You know what I'm saying? I ain't, if you're coming at me with any type of food, just move.

I don't wait because I can't get hit. My whole thing was, I didn't want to get stabbed. You know what I'm saying? I didn't want to get stabbed. I ain't know what happened to me if I get stabbed. And I seen that dude and I sell no mercy, I ain't won't be in that position. So it made me

like, you know, I'm ready to jump the gun like anytime. Preemptive violence. Yeah, I'm like, sure, come on with it if you want to. So it was crazy, man. It was just, I just can remember all those emotions just going through me, man. It was just so, it was just a trying time

for me, bro. I ain't going to lie to you, bro. I was, I was, yeah, man. So how did How long after you got your first piece of steel did this incident where you ended up having to stab the dude happen? Big Raymond probably a year and a half later. And was this at the wall? Nope. Different facility.

Okay. They shut the wall down. They shut it down. Right. And it makes sense. And they send me to Augusta. Okay. So I go to Augusta and I'm on there probably less than a year, probably nine to ten months before this happened.

Okay. So the cops can't find the bloody knife. It's in the wall. He's, but they gaffle you up and they send you the hole. Yeah. And they're leaning on you. Heavy. And man, you stayed solid.

You did not tell on yourself. Yeah, no. That's one thing I already know. First of all, you do not tell. Before that, before the first of all, you definitely don't tell on yourself. Denied, deny, deny. I'm in prison. Yeah.

What else you're going to do? me, so you're telling me, tell us where the knife is, make it better for yourself, the man is giving me to die. It's going to be bad for you. You're going to the lecture chair. You know, man, I ain't do nothing. You got the wrong dude. You know it's you. And they

screaming at me, they're yelling at me, and I'm scared. I mean, I'm going to lie. I was scared. I was scared as on the what? Hot beating out of my chest. But I'm not going to say, you know, wear the knife right. Man, I'm not doing that. I literally, I know it sound like some kid stuff, but I literally said, man, let me call

my mother, man. I said, man, let me call my mom, man, because y'all got me here, and he, there wasn't literally told me, man, your mom can't do nothing for you. You were in prison. I said, man, I need to call somebody because y'all trying to put something on me that I didn't do. He said, you did it. We know you did it. And he pulled out a whole handful of notes and boom. He said, everybody said, everybody said you did it. And I'm like, tell you. People were just snitching on you right away. Hell, yeah, they was trying to come off lock, bro. My, my same homeboy, I told you, I'm waiting to get out boo literally. told me when I got out where another dude ended up getting locked up like a month or two later,

he came in the hole. He told me, he said, man, when they was looking for the knife and they came in there and said, y'all ain't coming off lock till we're fine that night. So y'all can just stay on lock, don't worry about it whatever. So he said, dude started hollied out. Man, somebody just throwing the knife out, man, so we get off lock, man. It's cheap, man, it's already over, man, throw it out. And Boo got on the gate side, which one of y'all would throw it out.

Yeah, they trying to get that man of murder charge, man. Y'all are talking about throwing a knife out, man, y'all some cowls. but not nobody throw it out there you know what I'm saying so they was literally you know you locked up

and these dudes don't want to stay behind the door dog how long are you locked up in your cell after somebody gets stabbed

man it's all depends it all depends yeah it all depends if somebody gets stabbed real bad that pot might be locked down for about anywhere from four to four days to a week

you know what's it yeah four days to a week in the wall when when old boy got killed But we was out the next day. Right. Okay.

So how long had you guys been locked down when this you stabbed Big Raymond? Oh, we had been locked down like two weeks prior to them because it was on the big shakedown. Okay. So we come out and that's when all of this stuff happens. So I put them right back on lock. Right. So guys are upset. They're claustrophobic.

Everybody's stressed out. They're like, we just came off lock, man. You got a lot back down again. You know what I'm saying? So it was crazy. It just was the time. when it happened. But don't try to throw me under the bus for that.

Many people were trying to give me a murder charge. They're saying the man going to die. The man was on life support for like 40-some days. If he had a died, I got a murder charge. And y'all going to give him the knife. You see what I'm saying? So people are still sending snitch kites, though, right? Yeah.

They rode in the Jones. I seen, well, I ain't see all of them, but I saw a whole handful of them, but I read a couple of them. He said, read them, read them. And literally said, oh, dude up there and one, two and two, dude. Yeah, the short dude on the bottom bone, he stabbed him in the park. Yeah. And they're showing you who snitched on you. And I never did nothing to these people, man.

I never do. But I learned this too, though, Johnny, as I moved on in my bit. People don't want you around on when they know you'll produce violence. You know why? Because I might have an issue with you one day. And then you know what my work is. So they don't want you around. So when you get in those type of situations,

they will drop notes on you because they're like, oh, man, I deal with, I deal with banking, man. I borrow from his storebox or I talk to them or I play poker with them. What if one day the business ain't right? This is what they're going to do to me? Oh, I don't want them around me. He did it. That's what they do.

I learned that as I went on. No, most people are terrified of violence, myself included. I really hate it. Yeah. And so just doing one act like you did earns you respect forever. Yeah. And it's like they didn't want me around them no more. And I was surprised. I was like, damn, man, I thought I had no problem with nobody in the block.

But obviously, they felt different. You know what I'm saying? So it was surprising to me. But I kept stuck to my guns, bro. I said, I ain't do nothing. And I don't, I, no, bro. I was, man, I was literally crying, man. I'm in there because I got all.

all these officers standing around me. I'm in the cell. They pressure me. They got pressure on me. They got the two, three of them behind them with the ninja tortoises on, so they're ready to whip me. You know what I'm saying?

You got the wardening myself. And I'm like, man, I ain't do nothing. They said, we just want to know where the knife. That's all you got to do is tell us. I don't know where it said. I didn't do it. He said you did it. I got a lot of saying you did.

I said, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. And they just was on me, man. And they just ended up leaving. And I was laid in that cell, bro, and I literally, literally was praying for dude. I was like, please don't die. Please don't die.

I like, I know they're going to crush me, you know what I'm saying? I just saw myself being in the lecture chair. And then I just stopped thinking in my mind like, man, my mom will go crazy. Man, my family will go crazy. I'm going to get the lecture chair. I'm going to get laid. And I just, it was like nightmares, bro, nightmares. And it was months and months.

Before an officer came to me and told me, he said, man, he made it, man. You know, I was like, yeah. It was like, yeah, it was one of them that just wanted to be cool and tell me. He had no reason to tell him, but he just told me. And bro, I was like, oh, shit. And then they saying, though, I got a warrant, go to court, you know what I'm saying? And he was charged me with it and he said he was coming. And I was like, damn, why?

Well, I ain't going on the legislature, though. You know what I'm saying? I got two licenses. I ain't going on the next chair, though. So it was more like that. What was the charge? Salt with a deadly weapon or attempted murder? No, they gave me attempted murder and they gave me malicious wound.

Malicious what? Malicious wound. Malicious wound? That's an interesting charge. I've never heard of that. You never heard of malicious wound? No. Oh, my God.

Malicious wound is when you maim or hurt somebody bad enough where it could have took their life and in Virginia you get 20 to life for that. Do you know I did 33 years? Do you know I know a dude did have a malicious wound? He shot a guy. The guy that ain't died, but he became a paraplegia. I was on my 30 every year. He was on 31, and he only had malicious wound.

Yeah, in Virginia, you, they will. Hang you. Yeah, you'll do more time for a malicious wound, or you'll do equal enough time with the malicious wound as you do for murder. As a body. Yes. Wow.

Wow. Okay. So, all right, so he's there to tell on you. Do you have a lawyer? Quarterpoint of a lawyer. Quarterpoint of a lawyer. I ain't going to be, I ain't even won't lie to you, man. I ain't going to hold you, man.

My mom probably see this and neither. But I was scared to even tell him. I was scared to even tell him, man. Yeah, I get that. I didn't even tell him, bro, they try to even get a lawyer. I was just, I was just too scared to tell them. And I just ain't want them to be worried. And I ain't want them.

And I didn't want them in a way to think. like I lost my mind in there or something like I'm just going crazy you know what I'm saying so I ain't say nothing you know what I'm saying I just went with a quarter point lawyer because in my mind I'm saying what's the worst they gonna do to me

I got two life sentences you know and I'm gonna be honest with you if they would give me like you know a life sentence or something like that where I couldn't get out I won't even tell my people because I just didn't want to worry I'm like that you know what I'm saying but he came in there

acting like the big dummy that he was. Big Raymond. I got, yeah. Big dummy Raymond. You know what I'm saying? And I ended up getting out of that. You know what I'm saying? But I realized in life too, man, you know,

karma always come back to you. You know, because they're on down the line and I had another charge and I'm getting 15 years for it. And that was something that I felt like I could have beat. So it's just you can't get away from what you. do, man. You just can't. Nobody gets away with anything. Nobody gets away what you think you do, but it comes back to you when you least expected, and it's going to come back to you on some other stuff. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, but it was an experience for me, man. It was

Okay, so you beat that. We didn't even discuss for the people that don't know you what you're even doing in prison. We just got into these riveting stories, and I'm sweating again, but you were as a teenager, you, I don't even think got involved in dope, even though you were in D.C. at the height of the crack years. You weren't even selling crack. You just started doing stickups with your co-dee, with your man. D. Dum, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, juvenile thinking, thinking that you smarter than everybody else in my philosophy was listening to him,

which became my philosophy. I can't blame him because I was with it. thing he was with, I was with it. But we just came up with the dumb ideas like, man, why we're going to stand on the corner and say a dope or a dude, we could just go wait for their sale it and just go rob them.

But that's what a lot of people were doing in those days. Because there was a lot of money in robbing drug dealers because they had a lot of money. Right. But we're young as hell and it's not only it's a lot of money and doing it, it's a lot of danger. And doing it, them people will hunt you down and murder you. They will murder your family. You know what I'm saying?

They don't been out there. I understand this now, but then I didn't. They people have been out there risked in life, limb, and liberty to get this money, and you think you're going to just come take it with no consequences? That's asinine thinking. But I don't, we wasn't thinking like that. Man, we literally watch drug dealers, man, for weeks and stuff. Just watch where they go to take the money where they do it just so we can roll down on them.

You know what I'm saying? We literally watch prostitutes get money, get money. and watch the pimple that they go get it to so we can go get him. And we're young and stupid as hell, man. These people are trying to kill us. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And this is the 80s.

This is what DC is the murder capital. So literally you're trying this in the murder capital on the most dangerous dudes. Right. Yeah. That is immature. It's immature. It's foolish as hell. And I'm literally playing sports, trying to box and working at the same time.

I'm selling clothes. I'm literally dressed up every day after school up in here selling clothes I worked at a clothing store called Cavaliers I'm selling clothes right and I'm up in this joint

one day and I'm part-time because I'm in school but I'm like one of the best salesmen he literally my boss with his you know F him to this day because I think back now

to the way he tried to give me to quit school I was selling clothes so good and you go full time you can make more money you try to encourage a kid to quit school You know what I'm saying? But I couldn't because my mom would have bust my head over. But I remember him doing that.

And I think back on it, I'm like, that was a hell of a play you was trying to do to me. But, and I'm in there, and I'm selling clothes, man. I'm so good as people talking to the people like getting them to buy stuff. And this dude came in there, man. He was a pimp. And he had like four, five girls with him. And I'm waiting on them. And they're picking out clothes and giving it to them.

And I'm giving it to them and taking them to the dressing room to try them on. And that joker just kept looking at me. He kept looking at me. The girls talking to him and he's looking at me. And they're like, Daddy, Daddy, he's like, yeah, yeah, what's up? I can feel it. And I'm looking at him. I'm like, did I rob this, this, nick?

And I'm in my mind. I'm like, boom. And that joker went in to trial on a pair of pants, and he opened the door and told hand the pants out and told the girl get him another side. And he said, man, why I know you from? And man, my whole voice changed. I was like, man, you don't know me. He was like, I know you from somewhere, though.

Your face is love for me. I don't forget face. I said, nah, you don't know me, man. He said, you'll be over in the Northeast? I said, no. I said, I go to school, man. Yeah, you're just the kid. Yeah, I said, I go to school, bro.

I said, I just work. I go to school. He was like, hmm. You look for me, though. And the girl came back and interrupted the conversation. And, boy, I peered off so fast. and I was getting ready to panic. I was getting ready to go to this other dude

to work where I said, man, I got used to bed for me and go wait on a dude. That's why I was going to do, but he had somebody. But that was my plan because I was like, I'm a problem. This is over here. And he recognized me. So, bro, he ended up getting whole rocker stuff

and then they left, but he just kept looking at me. And in my mind, I say when I get off work, this sucker gonna be out there. I was scared to get off work, bro. Yeah.

So you were doing a lot of robberies then if you couldn't even for sure remember that you had robbed someone. We was robbing like we was robberhood, man, we was stupid. When we was doing dumb stuff, we were robbed,

we'd go rob together and we go gamble against each other for all the money. Oh, come on. No, man. We'd go play one-on-one back. We'd go in each other.

Fight, David. went the money, then we made at each other, and then we'll go shoot pool. We just try everything. It's the greed, bro. We just did this crime together, and then we're trying to beat each other out of the money. You know what I'm saying?

It was stupid, man. I mean, now I can see it, but then I couldn't see it. Because it was the times I won most of the time. So I used to be thinking, man, he's going to try to do something to me. And he won a few times because I used to be thinking I want to do something to him.

You know, so it's just crazy. It's just the stupidity that you're, be in. And that's why I be trying to tell these youngers today, man, bro, we be, just moving so backwards, man, and we just don't even know it, man. We just be doing so much dumb stuff because we don't know no brother. And then we're so hard here, we don't even want to listen to the people that's been where we've been and telling us some good game. Like, bro, what you're doing, it ain't going to get you nowhere. But in our mind, we'd be like, man, you don't know what you're talking about you old. No, but they know what they're talking about

because they owe. You know? But, man, yeah, bro. There was also the times just to, just to, not to justify it, but, you know, the 80s were in urban America was an exceptional time. So it affected everybody. And that's why DC was one of the murder capitals because you have all of these disparate, unorganized groups of people that are like amateur criminals. Like you guys weren't Omar from the wire like killers. You guys weren't, I don't even think you used loaded guns half the time, right? Weren't you using like...

When we first started, which was even more crazy when you think about it, but we ain't had no bullets in the gun. He was stealing his step-pop's guns for us to use. But the step-pops had the guns, but he didn't have the bullets. So he would take the guns, you know, and we go out and pull these joints. We ain't got no bullets, bro. If somebody buck on us, we'd be. done done.

Yeah. But I'm listening to him, and he's telling me, bro, he ain't nobody going to buck when you put the gun in these faces. They're scared, bro. They're just going to be. And I went with that. But in retrospect, if somebody, you know, we're done, bro. So it was, it was just like, it was, it was just dumb stuff I was doing, bro.

And, um. So somebody blocked eventually. Oh, yeah, yeah. Somebody bought eventually. and, you know, I was, when I eventually went to prison, that was NVA. And, you know, like I said, me and him, we ended up separating. I don't, I just was talking to Zopan, shout out to Ali, yesterday, and I was telling them about the situation.

Like, the dude did, I started doing this way. He was from New York. One night the cops got down on us, right? We had pulled a move and the cops got down on us. So we was running. and they was behind us. They was down on us. And he went one way.

I went one way. I got away. They caught him, right? And he ended up having to get bond, and his people bond him out. And they sent him back to New York and hit him. He didn't ever go to trial. To my understanding, they sent him to New York, and they hit him.

And I never saw him again. What do you mean they hit him? They hit him. Like, we're in D.C. You got this case. You get bonded out. He skipped on. He left.

They sent him back to New York. And I never seen him again. Oh, so he might have. Yeah. He just, no, he just disappeared. He just skipped bond and never came back. You know what I'm saying? He was living in D.C.

His family was living. They had moved from New York to D.C. He said, I met him. Right. So when he get this case and he locked up and he never mentioned my name at all. So I'm in school. school and he's not at school no more. Everybody, like, well, yeah, I know where he had.

He locked up. But he ended up making bond, and they sent him back to New York or wherever they sent. Oh, I see. He just skipped and he was gone. So the crime that you committed with, that led you to prison was with a different person. He was with a different dude. So once he was gone, I'm, you know, I'm Dolo. I'm by myself. Yeah. So then when I'm coming down here to Virginia in the summertime, now I got this habit of getting money. Right.

So I started doing it down here. Then I knew some dudes down here, and I got some of them in the mix with me, and found out some of them was already robbing. So I'm like, okay. So boom, so we're doing this, and then this is when the incident happened, it caused us, you know, me to be incarcerated. What city was that? This was in Petersburg, Virginia.

Petersburg, Virginia. Petersburg, Virginia. And you guys really are like wolves. You're tracking people. You're on the hunt. Yeah. You're just looking for a Vic. Yeah, you're looking for a Vic.

You look for a big. You're looking for more or less. You're looking for a big. You're looking for places. You know, because I eventually went from, because it ain't no pimps and all of that type of stuff down in Virginia. Not where I was at. So then you started looking for businesses that generate a lot of money. He just got lack of security.

Stuff like that, you just start looking. You know what I'm saying? And he was down here more than me. So he knew places. So I'm following his lead. And one night, one of these situations popped off and somebody bucked. And you guys were planning to rob a guy who might not even been a criminal, I don't think. Yeah, I mean, where...

He just had a bunch of jewelry and you thought he had money. A lot of people. He was at a hotel? It was at a hotel. Fuck. The 80s were different before cameras, dude. It was different, man. No cameras, all that crazy stuff.

And, um, situation got out of hand and, um, guns got pulled and shots out of let off. and I left, I'm gone out of there. Because my, I'm still going on the D.C. stuff. Like, I don't need no bullets in the gun because I ain't going to shoot nobody. You know what I'm saying? But he got bullets in the gun. You're Cody. Yeah, he got bulls in the gun.

And people just fucking got bullets in the gun. So I'm gone. And the situation happened, and he get gone. And we literally get away. We literally, we get away. And it's like months, literally months later. And they locked some other people up for the crime. They locked up, literally locked up, charging two people

with this. Another reason to show you how quick it the system is. So they lock these two people up and they're charging them with the crime. I cannot tell you to this day. Probably never be able to tell you whatever got in his mind where he felt like he was going to come out or whatever the kid.

I don't know. He went there in the police station. turn itself in. Your Cody. Yeah. Said it wasn't them. It was him and it was me. And I was a ringleader and he

turned himself in. And they sent, whatever you want to call you. John God got it and everybody come get me. And it came and got me and locked me up. And I sat there and still going about

what I think in my mind. I don't know. What are he talking about? I ain't do nothing. With the woo. Them people saying, I guess they're saying like, well, he's trying to be hard or whatever, whatever.

And he testified on me. Saying you pulled the trigger. Yeah. When you didn't even have bullets in your gun. Didn't he had bullets in my gun. And another dude that was his, I won't want to say cousin, but they related because a dude got babies

by his people or whatever, whatever. He ended up getting caught. While we were waiting to go to trial, he ended up getting caught for some robberies itself. And he took a plea deal to say, I could, I know what they was doing because they used to tell me. And he came and testified on me as well, right?

So it looked like I'm the one saying that I ain't do nothing, and they line and woodoo-woo-woo, and people gave me, you know, first try I went to, I think it gave me life 115 years. He took a plea bargain. I think I want to say he got like 60, 70-something years. And the other dude that came in on the back end to testify, I think he got like 20-some years. Well, I know my Cody ended up doing, I did 33.

I think he did like 20, 25, 26. Ain't no big deal. So he didn't save a lot of time. And now he's got this snitch jacket following out everywhere. The other dude, he did like 16, 17. He out now. But what he had got out, the one did 16 and 17. He on some other stuff.

I don't even talk about him. Just say, still police stuff. And, um, my Cody, man, he just passed away, uh, probably, I want to say two, three months ago. He had some bad health issues and he just passed away like three months ago. Some bad what? He had some, he had some, the whole time we was in prison. I used to hear about he was real sick in prison. I don't want to misquote him, but I think he had leukemia or something.

And I know he was real sickly in prison. And when I first got locked up, man, after all that stuff happened, I really wanted to do something to him, man. I really did. And I used to say that, you know, if I ran across him, then that was my mom going to be my last day in prison because they probably won't kill me because I wouldn't do something to him. But I did run across him, man, early. And I seen him, man, and I talked to him and I pulled up on him. He was just giving me all this, and they made me do it. They was telling me I was going to get a legend.

chair that who and he ended up writing a statement and said that they pressured him to do but it was too late go finish with that what you were saying though you wrote a statement to the DA he wrote a statement to my lawyer

wrote a statement to the DA say he was pressured in the line and you know he did this and that and you know I was with him but I didn't pull no trigger he did all of that but it was too late you know what I'm saying you know you've been like W you know one thing

about the system is where especially down there, one of the hardest things to do is get something overturned, whether you write wrong or indifferent. Once it's been tried and convicted, it's one of the hardest things than were to do. So the paperwork was, you know, it just fell on deaf ears. It didn't help me at all. You know what I'm saying?

You should have done the trial. That's when you do. He shouldn't have did it at all because she should have just stood on, what you were doing. You should have just stood on. Well, it's interesting because he actually did the right thing. He was overcome with guilt when they arrested to innocent people initially for the crime. But then he caved and did a really bad thing. I think he was going to get like a significant amount of less time.

Right. You actually only did like six or seven years less than me. You see what I'm saying? So I remember, you know, I think a conversation that I had with him, scared him so much that he still thought I was going to do something to him. And he eventually went to the people and he got more. moved. So he got moved immediately like within a day or two.

So I didn't see him no more for like years and years later. And, um... Have you forgiven them? Yeah, man, you know, because I understand that, you know, everybody ain't built the same. You know what I'm saying? Everybody ain't built the same. You might as do the same thing. That don't mean you built the same.

So I understand, man, you know, he was under pressure and that pressure was too much for him. They did it to me. You know, when I was getting lied up, they was bringing up some stuff that wasn't even no way. possibly true. Or when we know you was doing it, you better tell us now because you was doing it with your brother, and we know that your wife was involved,

and we know that just, and we're going to lock them all up. And I'm like, in my mind, just rational thinking, I know they won't. So you can't. So I'm like, okay, well, do what you got to do, man, because I don't know nothing about this stuff.

But they was pushing at me. So he probably, I think about that, And I'm like, he probably could not take that. You know, he wasn't able to. But me, I'm just locked in on like, no, no, no, no, no, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I forgave him, man. And then I remember I was ended up on another institution, like I say, years and years later. And it was the biggest institution in Virginia.

It got three prisons in one. There's like one right here, one right here, one right here, one right here. They're just right there. And if you get transferred from here to there, it's like being transferred. into another prison. So I was here, and he was here. And I had been in trouble here, and they moved me here. I got in trouble here.

They moved me back here. And I was in trouble here, and they ain't nowhere to send me, and I was trying to go over there, and I couldn't because he had me on the enemy list. Right. And I had some people over there, some family over there, and I told him, man, they got me in the hole. They won't let me out because I can't go here or here no more.

The only place I can go is here. I can't come out because the dude got me on the enemy list. So he pulled up on him. And he was like, man, you got it. bank still on the enemy list for, man. What y'all did? That stuff over with, man. Come on, man.

You're helping these people, man. Get the main off list, man, man. They're going to do nothing to you with it with a book. And talk to him, man. He took me off. And he let me out. And I go over there and I see him again. I have a conversation with him or whatever.

I said, man, it's done. What's done is done. I can't do nothing about that, bro. You know what I'm saying? He apologized. He said, this, that, and the third. And I let it be, you know. Now, can you walk the line?

Can you walk the main line in a Virginia prison? With a snitch jacket, with a sexual crime? When I first came in, you couldn't. When I first came in, you could not. You could not. They was going to slay you, man, and lay you. But as time went on, this is what I found out, too. This is what I come to understand.

If you get that sack, they don't care if you told on their mom, if they're a fiend and they want to get high. Because so few people can get that sack in on a regular basis. So you told on your home boy, you told on this and you come to prison, you got eight, nine, ten, but you're getting that pack in. So if I want to hurt Johnny, because Johnny didn't tell, but Johnny get that sack, I got to be able to hurt all these dophins. Exactly. And some of these dophins is killers. Sure.

Some of these dophins won't that get hot. And they're going to let you know, hey, man, dude told old man, he can't stay on to y'all with me. told on my home boy, bro, bro, bro, leave him alone. I'm on heroin. Yeah, leave him alone, bro.

Hey, he'd get that missile in, bro, leave him alone, but that's on the street. Don't bring that street into the penitentiary, bro. And that's how they're coming. Right. And you can, you can bug that if you want them, but,

bro, you're up against some real, real stuff. Yeah, and a junkie down on his habit is dangerous. Yeah, bro. They would, they would. So I learned. and I started learning. And that was later because when I first came in,

they didn't care. But as the time went on, and it's sad to say, but if you're telling on somebody out here, where in Virginia anyway, if you tell and you go to prison, you better be able to get that sack again because that's probably the only thing you're going to say.

If you get that sack game, but there's so many dudes want to get high, and it's so many of them this vicious, just like that. And if you, the plug, man, you're good. Right. You know, and you're told on everybody. And you're good.

You can stay in your cell and do what you want to do and long as that sack keep coming. But if that sack stop coming, oh, you're through. Yeah. You know, your plug run out and you can't get it in, then you're done. You're no good to anyone. You ain't no good to no one. Okay, so you go in with 155 years, which is like absurd.

You know, they just... I went in with life and 115. Oh, okay. All right. It's still upset. Yeah, it's retarded. Like, it's just, it's like a number. Did you know somebody live in 115 years?

No, I mean, maybe an old Japanese guy. 115? Yeah, 115. Well, I ain't Japanese. So, black man don't live that long, especially not in Virginia back in those days. So did you, but you could have gone, but your lawyer told you take the deal because you don't have priors. And in 12 years, you can go see the board. Right.

So there's this, like, carrot sort of dangling out there. there. But did you, what did you expect? Like, did you, were you prepared mentally? You're like, I may never go home. I think I could die in prison. Like at 20 years old, did you process that? No, because I listened to my lawyer like an idiot. And what my lawyer told me was, listen, at this time, which is some of Virginia BS, at this time in 87, they were, they were, was implementing the three strike law. You get three charges of the same caliber. You're not eligible for parole.

Whatever time you get, that's the number you got to do, 85% of it. I already got life 115 years. I got to go for some more robbery charges. Some I know about the rest of them, they just dump them on me. Right. So he telling me you get convicted of one of these. I got like four, five of them to go to one.

They're going to put you under the no parole zone. So that means whatever time they're going to give you with this conviction and the 115 and the like, you're done. Now you could take a plea bargain for, first he said, for three life sentences. Plus what I already got. Like, what? He said, you could take a plea boy. He said, but you're going to go up for parole in 12 years. He said, in Virginia, anything over 48 years life, whatever, two, like three, you go up in 12 years.

Right. He said, you're never being convicted or nothing. Your record is clean. You're going to be all right. You're going in. You stay out of trouble. You mind your business. You get in some classes.

Man, you'll be home in 12, 13 years. That does sound like good advice. It sounds good to an idiot who don't know the system. Number one, who do you know can go to prison and man your business and don't get in no trouble? That's impossible. Trouble going to knock on your door. Especially, Virginia. Right.

It is going to knock on your door. If you manage it, but I know Muslims. I know Christians. I know Buddhists. I know, don't bother nobody. The trouble going to come to you because if you minding your business, they're going to assume you soft. They're going to assume you weak. They're going to assume that you could be carried.

You could be extorted. So it's going to come to you. So there's no such thing as minding your business in prison and staying out of trouble. I didn't know that. So I'm listening to it and it sounds good. So I'm like, bro, I don't know. I'm scared you because he's throwing his life stuff out there. That's a lot.

So when he come back and he said, man, there are two life sentences. They're going to consolidate everything. You're going up for parole in 12 years. If you don't take this, I'm telling you right now, you ain't never getting out. At least this you've got a chance. You're never getting out.

You're going to fall under three streets. strike law. I took it. I ain't no choice. Right. Fast forward, I get out in 2020. Oh, 20, I get out in 2020. In 2019, I think 2019, they started applying the law saying that, we started putting out lawsuits saying that the law was misappropriated for all All of this time since it went in effect. The three strike law did not mean if you had three robbery charges, three murder charges, three strike law meant I get in trouble for a robbery, violent crime. I go to prison, I get out, I go back and get for another robbery.

I get out and go back. I go back for a murder. You got to go in, come out, go and come out. Three strike. They applied it as if you had three of the same. same charge. Right. So in other words, they weren't allowed to just dump three on you in one adjudication.

Right. There had to be three different cases. I see. But they applied that to multiple people. Thousands of people. And people were in prison for 20, 30 years before they was doing and then they try to even correct their wrong by coming back and saying,

I look, sign this paper saying you're not going to sue or whatever, we're going to start taking you up for parole. When I should have been going up, if I've been down, years, I should have been going up a year 12. If I've been there at 30 years, I should have been going of a year 12. Now I've got to sign something saying, I'm not going to sue you

to just go up, period. Yeah, it's tough. Do you take that $5,000 a day? Yeah, see what I'm saying? Or, you know. So it's like, oh, bro, that's what happened to me. So I could have not took the plea bargain

and don't know what would happen. You know, but it was just crazy. But then by the end, I got out. I got my maid parole in 2020. Okay, so after you stabbed Big Gary, Big Raymond. He survived. You missed his heart, evidently, right? Thankfully.

And you beat the case. Where do they shoot you after that? Did I leave after the Big, yes, the Big Raymond Joan. I left because I already had prior incidents on there. They sent me to Mecklenburg, man. Which is what? The end of the bill. Really?

That's the last stop for you. Well before they did this Wallace Ridge, Red Onion and all this stuff, that was the last stop for you right there, brother. That's bad? Yeah, that's where they had, Def Row. That's where they only had a population of like maybe 150, 150 and SEG, 150 on population,

the rest was death row, all single sale, only 12 sales per. block, single sales. Everybody here was here for extreme violence within the system. So you're around everybody

that's known to do something. So you ain't going to be the Billy bad ass everybody. Everybody's bad. Everybody put some work in. Everybody's bad. So that's why I ain't got the six people in the block. That's why it's only single cell. So send me up there.

They justified it by saying, you know, the South Hampton thing prior incidents to this big, leading up to the big rain and methane in my time. So this is what he need to be. So I get there and they don't even want to let me out the hole. At first, I'm going to say like a mug man, then they end up calling me into the warden's office. And I go in the warden's office from Seig with the warden, the major, and the lieutenant. And I never get it.

I wore in there with handcuffs and shackles on from segregation to war, and I swear to God, I am not alive. It's people that can vouch for it. He looks just like Luther Vandross. Less like Luther Vangeloved. Handsome son of a guy. Yeah, that was he hairy and everything. They slam Luther.

So I go up in there, John, and he said, these suckers in there drinking coffee and eating donuts. So he set me down, and they started talking to me. And they was like, you want to go on the yard? I was like, yeah It was like Okay Well, we don't raise your fire We know what's going on with you

We're going to let you on the yard But you're sure you want to go I'm like, yeah It's okay, well let me just let me tell you this It's killers out there too It's a lot of up And I don't care if you kill any one of them But if you put your hands on

one of my officers in any way, shape, fun, fast. If we don't kill you, you're going to spend the rest of your time and the whole segregation right here. And you got life sentences. And I mean the rest of your life in that hole. He said, I can do it. He said, you believe me? I say, yeah.

He said, I just want to make sure. And then the major say, oh, he ain't playing. Yeah, you. You can go out there, everybody out there, everybody's on the same thing you want. But don't touch any one of my officers, mate. That's all they cared about. That was it. And it was eerie, man.

It was like spooky. Totally. And I'm like, I'm like this. Yeah. And I'm like, eating donuts and drink. I'm like, you know. So he said, do you have anything you want to say? I said, no.

He's all right. We're going to let you out. He said, you'll be out by the next week. He said, remember what I told you? I said, okay. And in my mind, when I got back to my cell, I was like, these officers on this, must be real disrespect for some if that's all he worrying about.

But come to find out when I got out there, they won't. They was the most respectful officers at anybody I've been around because they know who they deal with. Of course. But he just wanted to implant that. in my mind like, I don't care how mad you get.

Don't put your hands on there because he just wanted his job security. You know what I'm saying? And I just, as I went on in my bed, I was like, that was weird as hell. But he let me out there, man, and that's basically for real, for real, where I met all of the killers

and the willers and the dealers and the Virginia legends. That was all there. Oh, and I'm like one of the youngest ones that. You know, so And then this was so crazy. They knew who I was and what I did.

Because it's like a prison pipeline. When I got there, I'll never forget, one of the legends of Virginia penal system, his name is Shorty Pimp. Shorty Pimp was like, hey, what's up, man? I said, what's it happening?

He was like, oh, yeah, where you came from? I said, I come from Augusta while what's up. He said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're blanked right. You don't want to stare at that old big joker up there on the Gus thing.

I was like, because in my mind me, I'm like, damn, do you know? You know, but it was like they knew. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it was crazy, man, but out of all the places I've been, man, and to be honest, that's going to be like wall and that's like the most valid. But Mecklenburg, for some reason, it's like one of my favorite spots.

Oh. Because everybody knew what was going on. Yeah. Ain't a whole lot of, I don't know what y'all call it. We use it like, we call it like ass-snatching, but it's basically it's like sex, and wolf tickets. Ain't no whole lot of that going on. Ain't no whole lot of that going.

Somebody owe you, they're going to pay you. Ain't nobody calling you, no B word. Ain't nobody coming outside of it because they know what's coming behind it. So it was like, and you got your singer sale. Yeah. You know, so it was like one of the best places I really went. And in my YouTube right now, it's literally an officer to be in my chat, you know what I'm saying, all the time, man. And he was an officer there when I was there.

Wow. And he'd be vouched for a lot of stuff. I'd be saying, he was like, yeah, I remember. He been in my chair for like three years. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man. So is that where you learned your hustle? How long did you spend there?

Three, three and a half years. Okay. What did you do now that you're kind of tucked in, you know, you're growing up, you're learning the game. You've got your stripes, obviously, from being violent. What do you do to hustle? Poker. Poker.

Poker? Poker, man. It's probably, it's probably. it's probably the worst habit that I picked up in prison. I wish I had because of all the stuff that came behind it, you know, but, man, I can't like that. I was addicted. When you're winning, the money is so good. Yeah, gambling in prison is crazy.

It's just behind drugs. I played poker for, or just say gambling period. I shot dice, too. Dice in poker was my choice of gambling. and I probably did that every day for 26 years or better. Wow. Okay, so you were really addicted, but really good, too. Yeah.

Okay, so you would, would you organize poker games? I ran poker games. I got in poker games. I ran dice games. I ran skin games. I got in skin games. I ran a stove box for probably 27 years. What is that? What is a storebox?

Storebox is, I guess, the equivalent on the street is a loan shock. I loaned out food. I loaned out money. I loaned out commissary. I mean, you come get anything for me is 100% interest. You come get two sodas. You got to bring me four back. You come get $100. You got to bring me $200 back. You come get whatever. It's 100% interest. Usory, they called that in the Bible. That's a big sin, by the way. Did you know that?

I did not know. Well, I knew what I was doing weren't right, but I also knew it was... No, yeah, yours. Yeah, it was profitable. Yeah. It was, um... And I got into it on the humble because, to be honest with you, I was a patronized of a storebox. When I first got locked up, man, you know, my people sent me all types of money.

Everybody loving me and scared for me and sending me money and all of this. And I used to eat and run out of stuff and I go straight to the storebox, man. Hey, man, let me get this. let me get that, and then I, because I had money coming in, and I'd go get it. In the old time, my man, shout out to him, too. He pulled up on me. He was like, hey, you're on blood.

He said, why you keep going to storebys like that, man? I said, man, go I'd be running out stuff. I'd be hog. He said, yeah, but you get money in all the time. I said, yeah, I know I pay for it. I ain't own nobody enough. He said, well, why don't you run your own storebys and keep all your money?

Hmm. I was like, oh, yeah. It was like, man, come on, man. You're getting all your money. way, man, you go get $50. Where for the stop, you getting $100 back? So then when you get your $100, then you can't spend your $100. You ain't spending it about $50.

And he dropped that down on me. And I don't know why because we won't like super tight. But he just dropped it on me one day. And I sat on that for a couple of months. And I said, hmm. And I said, I'm going to go ahead and see if I can do it. And when I started doing it, I had looked at other people that was doing it. And I understood the dynamics of it.

And see, the thing with the storebox is, you can't let nobody buck on you. I was going to ask you that. It seems very dangerous because you could just loan something to somebody and they say, fuck you, I ain't paying you.

Damn, now I got to go do what has to be done. That is the fallback of a storebox. That is the fallback. So how do you mitigate against that? Because you don't want to stab somebody every day. No,

because you don't have to stab everybody any day. What it is is you have to open the storebox and you have to lay down your law, you have to tell people how you're running your storebyes. You have to tell them it's zero tolerance. You have to pay. There's no excuses. I don't care if your dog died and your mama couldn't get the check in.

It's none of that. You have to lay your law down. And the first person who goes against that law, then you have to demonstrate. So in doing that, you're going to go to the hole. All your stuff will be packed up. Everybody else owe you. That's going to be gone to the side because you've gone. You have to do that.

that's a part of establishing a store. Okay, so you know when you open a store in a violent prison system like Virginia, you are going to have to go to the hole for fucking somebody up to get your business going. And it ain't just, you just can't

fuck them up. You got to smash it. Because that is the message that's sent to everybody else. You understand me? So you have to do that. You know, that's just a part of the game because if not, everybody's going to play with you. Oh, man, they ain't come in this week. I got you next

week or what do, and it just goes like that. So you know that, but you just don't know when it's coming. You know what saying? And that's the trickery with it. So... Did the old timer let you know that that was part of the game? Yeah, man, but I watched it and I knew too because I seen dudes that try to

open up store boxes and then do buck on them or then pay, and then everybody stopped bucking on. Then he ain't got no storebox because he didn't do shit. Then after they go from there, then they're coming and they won't rob you. They don't extort you. They don't want to do everything to you

because they know you suck. I want your booty hole. Yeah. I used to want your cup of noodle. Now I want that fucking sweet ass. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? It goes like that. So, I mean, it's crazy, but this is prison.

And this is what it's going to happen. It's like a snowball effect. So you have to do what you do. Okay. Can you tell us about when you had to, you know, lay the law down? Yeah, the first dude that ain't paid me. shit I got a pen in my hand right here, man, from a dude also that didn't pay me.

One of the worst injuries I got in prison. Well, besides being stabbed, it was probably one of the worst injuries I got. I had due teeth in my... Uncle. Yeah, man, it was all the way I could see it. I could literally see the inside of it. And that was over less than $2.

Right. But it was the principal. You know, he came on the institution. He knew. And big old boy. So a lot of them think they can get away with a lot more than they actually can. So he was like, man, we're stobiles, man, man, man. Come get something for me.

A little small stuff. I think it's chips, soda, whatever. Come get these. I got you, man, my property, come, woo-woo, woo, woo. And the amount of money is nothing. Because by this time, I got stobot. Looks like a 7-Eleven. Yeah, bro.

I mean, literally, I got hundreds and hundreds of everything. Wow. By the way, is this legal? No. No, it's very illegal. But it's rampant. Yeah, he's rampant. It's not enforced. You know how to get away, get around it. I got locked up probably within 30-some years. I probably got a lot of them. But I had 10, 15 times for running the stove-wop.

You know, but they know I was going on a stove-bock. Right. But, you know, I couldn't stop. I was just addicted to it. You're killing it. Yeah. So at this time, he come get something. And I give it to him. It's not really there because I got a lot of stuff. It's the principal. So then when he get it, he's, he's, you know, he's, you.

don't even say nothing else to me about it. And then a week go by and his property has got to be here by now. Then another week go by and I see you going to Commercy and I don't pay no mine

because so many other people paying me. And then another week go by and I see you come from Commercy with all these big bags and they're done on me. Hey man, that dude ain't even never give me my stuff. So I said, damn, well, he must think, I'm a sucker or something.

So I would call a wreck after Commercer and I go out He's outside, and he's walking, and I'm walking. I see him, and I pull up on him. And I was like, hey, yo, bro, man, you ain't, you never hodling back at me, man, about that, you know what I'm saying, the chip in the shoulder and stuff like, and this sucker say, man, you're worrying about that little bit-ass goddamn money, man. And he ain't about give you that shit, man, that ain't nothing.

Man, I said, but, holo, holo, holo, holo player, that's mine's, though. So he said, man, I don't get, man, he ain't he got to give you nothing. I just take off on him. Yeah. Because you, you're talking crazy. So when I hit him, I drive him, and he went to get up. And he was running his mouth and he was like, motherfucker-ah. And when he went to get up, I hit him again, but I hit this.

And it went so hard that it cut my whole hand open, and his teeth came out in my hand. So he just one. Just one of his lowers. Yeah. So when I hit him like that and he dropped down, my hand was hurting, but I couldn't really. At that time, it was numb. So I just started kicking him and stomping him, stumbling him. So I'm stomping the hell out of him.

So a dude ran over and said, bang, man, leave him alone, man. You won't kill him, man. So he grabbed me and put me up off of him. So he landed on the ground and everything. So boom, he pushed me. I was like, man, I was trying to take money. So he walked me down. And, bro, I'm telling you before, he said, man,

oh, man, look at your hand, man. I was like, man, that's great. And I could literally move my hand, Johnny, and I could see the veins. I know what this stuff looked like on the inside. Right. So I'm like, God. And the bone in there is like, it's like not even like our tip.

It's like shiny. It's like real shiny. Like it got a glisten on it. I'm like, damn. But by the time I get to that joint and get to the Jesus, man, you got to go to medical. By the time I get to the entryway gate to go to medical, I said, man, I heard my hand out there, man. I was shadow boss and I hit something in my hand. I got to go to the medicine.

So the officer looked at my hands. Oh, man, go, go, go. So I stopped going. But by the time I got the medical, boy, that Jones is locked up on me. That's just hurting so bad. Oh, my God. It was hurting so bad, bro. I was trembling and everything.

When I got the medical, my whole body was trembling. And they looked at my hand. It was, oh, what did you do? What did you do? You got to go to the hospital. You got to go to outside hospital. So now they scare me because they're making me panic even more. And, bro, they loaded me up.

Took me to outside hospital, man. And I never forget it, man. They took me first. They took me to University of Virginia. No, they took me to MCV. It's the biggest hospital, I think, in Richmond. And when I was in there and it was looking at my hand, I'd never get the doctor pulled the officers out. And he talked to him outside of the door, but I can hear him.

He said, y'all got to take him to MCV. He needs a specialist for that. We can't do nothing for that. And he said, and you need to get him there fast because if not, the nerves are going to be so bad. He probably won't have use in the hand no more. So I can remember the officers hearing the officers say, well, we got called back to the prison to get authorization to take him somewhere else. and the doctor said, well, you need to do something fast, right? So I can remember them coming back in and one of them came back in

and the other one went, I guess they made the call. I told him, prayer, I said, look, bro, look, bro, I'm chained to the bed in the hospital. I said, I heard what they said, bro. Y'all better take me to UVA, bro. I'm telling you right now, he said, man, we're going to take you. I said, bro, you better take me there. I heard what the man say, bro. I said, I'm telling you right now.

If you take me back to the institution and my hand be messed up, I swear to God, who they let me out, I'm going to murder you. you, I'm going to murder you, bro. I swear to God, take me where I need to go, man. Don't let my hand get messed up like that, bro. You got to use your own sense. Don't tell the people I got to go. He was like, man, we're going to take it.

We're going to take it. I said, bro, I swear to God, bro. I swear to, man, you better get me there. Man, I was so scared, bro. She's talking about being in prison and you can't use your hand. You're fucked. Bro, I'm done. You know what I'm done?

All the people I haven't got to fight. You went on. Right. They're just waiting. I'm done, bro. Licking their lips. It's just what we need is banky disabled. Bro, man, the dude came back.

He said, man, man, we get me a take. We're going to take you, master, man. Let's go, man. Let's go. Please. Please, please, please, y'all. And they got me up out of there, man. It took me the University of Virginia.

I go there, man. I end up staying like a week of somebody that surgery on my hands. First surgery I had in prison. I woke up, man. I was discombobulated. Hand messed up, man. I couldn't even close it. I couldn't do nothing.

I had to be on, I had a ball, I had to be in medical for about four, five months. I had to use a ball for like over a year or something, all over less than $2. But it was depressible about it, you see what I'm saying? But that's what I tell people, you got to do what you got to do, but don't think just because you do what you got to do. There's no winners in prison. You just lose and lose. That's it. That's it.

You just hope you don't lose the worst, but you just lose and lose. Because even though I made my example with him, look at all I went through. Well, my hand was messed up for over a year. I had lost, all it locked me up, took all my stuff. I stayed back there so long. Half of the food I had with the rats and the mice ate it while I was in property. You got holes in rats, all in your stuff. The other half is stale.

So, you know, all it is, bro. And then you've got an enemy for life. Right. And then you might run to his cousin. You might run to his brother. You might run it to his home board. Right. So it's no winning in prison.

It's just war at all times. You know, and you can't, you can't get away from it. Right. You know, it's just so taxing on you, man. People think the prison is just so physical. It is. It's very much physical. But it's mental, too, brother.

The mental warfare that you go through was just saying that I got to get my energy up to face another one of these days. It's exhausting. It's super exhausting, bro. It's super exhausting. It's like, bro, and people come on my videos all the time and ask, oh, baby, would you, you say, yeah, you ain't really making no money yet, but you take five million to go do five years. I said, no, you do it.

But they couldn't give me 10, 20 to go do nothing because one thing I learned about doing time, there's no one on this planet can tell me different. There's no guarantee when you go in, you're coming out. I've seen dudes down the first day. I seen dudes down the first day. I seen dudes die on the day before they got out of prison. Going home the next day and a dude stabbing the death on the yacht over a TV. Seriously?

I swear to God, over a TV. That dude is up in the mountain zone while he's raised with me right now. He was when I was there. He was up there with me right now. He probably still up there because his homeboy told me he going to give him a TV. Right? I'm going to give you this one by I go home because he had a release date coming up. But then his other homeboy came from his actual hood that he grew up with.

threw up with, played with. He's just coming in the system. He ain't got nothing. He got a fresh 20 years. I'm going to give you my TV. So he goes back to a dude. He said, man, I got to get my own boy just got here. Man, he ain't got nothing.

Woo-woo. Dude been in prison about eight, nine years. He said, boy, but you told me you're going to get to me. Bro, I got to get to him. Boy, I'm going to look out for you when I get on the show and send you some money with it. No, bro, I want to you. You know, bro, I got to do it, bro. That's my bro, bro.

Man, that's some, you know, that's some bitch of that shit. Woo-woo. day before he go home go out on the yard come out there and stabbing the death stab him to death man over TV bro see what I'm saying he going home

the next day if you go look at my videos it's an incident that I was indirectly involved in a D.C. Richmond ride where a dude going home in three days get out of the hole

and jump into a beef it ain't got nothing to do with him. He's going home in three days. He's the only one that got killed. Oh, my God. He's the only one that got killed. You understand me? He didn't have anything to do with it.

He got nothing to do with just as his people from where he's from. And he came out and he wanted to be the, and you go home in three days. Multiple people got stabbed. He's the only one who got killed. You see what I'm saying? I was in there when a dude came in the first day. And dude said he did some of these people on the street, stabbing the death.

one day in prison. So who gonna tell you you going home when you come in prison? That's one of the dumbest things that anybody else, I ain't got for five years. Who told you you guys gonna make it through five years?

I ain't got with two years. Bro, that ain't guaranteed. Not the bit that I did. I see people die every day. I see stuff pop off every day. You see what I'm saying? When you walk out of that cell, you got to be ready to kill

or to be killed. That's what your mentality they got to be. You have to be understanding that your life might get took and you have to be willing to take life to stop it. And that's what prison is.

But these people would look at these TV shows, they look at these sitcoms and they think, oh, well, you do? Man, yeah, all right, all right, get up in there. Why do you think all these rappers and all these dudes and all these big time king paying drug dealers that we knew they ran the streets and made

multi, multi-million dollars and they'd get in prison? And they say, oh, now they're a rat because they flip because they don't want to be there. Don't nobody want to be there. A millionaire doesn't want to be involved in that shit. You were never be in any place above ground. This worse than being in captivity, my brother.

I would sleep on a bridge before I would be an inmate again. You understand me? Because I can get up every day and try to change my circumstances. You can get up every day in prison and you can do the right things. You can work out. You can educate yourself. Your situation ain't going to. change, tell them people open that door.

And you want to deal with whatever you got to deal with every day until they open that door. You see what I'm saying? So it's the worst place on earth. But yet, you were still gambling every day. I was gambling every day because I was an idiot. I admit that. I admit that.

Because you still got to eat. Is poker, was poker more lucrative? The gambling more lucrative than storeboxing? Or what was, what did that look like in terms of revenue? Storeboxing is more lucrative. Tell us real quick, so I'm fascinated by prison hustles. If you're loaning out two sodas getting four back,

you're loaning out, 10 soups, getting 20 back, is that where the commerce ends? Or can you get money out of that? Can you actually get currency out of that? How do you turn that into cash? Easy. Okay. All right.

Say, for instance, one of the biggest commodities in prison probably be coffee, right? Okay, so everybody drinks coffee. Coffee is one of the biggest commodities in prison because you got dudes to smoke weed, you got dudes who smoke crack, you got dudes who do dough. Not more of them do coffee.

So coffee is a commodity. All right, you got 100 bags of coffee in your storebox. A hundred bags of coffee. I've had 400 bags of coffee. Okay, you come and you bar four bags of coffee, you got to bring me eight back. The equivalent to eight bags of coffee, let's say the equivalent is,

$50, $60, right? Okay, so if it's that, what I would tell you is, okay, Johnny, instead of bringing me the eight-bags coffee back, then just send $60 to this address right here. Or I would say, Johnny, well, what I need, I need you to give me $60 worth of Gatorade. Because I'm going to take the Gatorade, and I'm going to give it to the wine guy,

and the wine guy is going to make some wine with this Gatorade, and it's going to bring me in for $500. Wow. You see what I'm saying? So you could take, once you have a surplus of everything, you can trade that off to other things and turn it into real money. Right. You see what I'm saying?

So once you got that going on, you can manipulate and do whatever you want to do. You just came on the compound. So you come on there and they got a grandfather claw in effect where you come in, you can't have stuff that we can't order. You might come in. It's being that you're brand new, you got a brand new pair of Kobe Bryant's on. We can't order Kobe Bryant's. I may step to you and say, hey, man, what size you wear?

Boom, boom, it's my side. May I'm getting them. What you're saying? I ain't selling my shoe. What do you want for? I give you $300 for them because I can take and turn around and sell them for five or six or I could keep them and just be the only one on the camp with some Kobe Bryantz. You see what I'm saying?

So I have the money to manipulate and do what I want. Everything is an investment. Right. And I could go play poker. And I could take a loss or take a hit for $100,200 because it's coming out of money that I've already earned off of my initial money that I started with. I started a storebox with $100. What did you get up to at your height?

I didn't have thousands and thousands of dollars in my storehouse. I'd have a storebox so big that I had too much stuff to keep in my sale that if they come, I'm automatically going down. So I put it, me and you cool, I put $400 in your sale. And I say, with Johnny Hold is for me, man, you just eat every night what you want. I ain't say feed your sell it. I ain't say go game. Eat what you want.

And you hold us. Then I go to my other homeboy. Hold 500. He said, I go to my other homeboy, 500. He said, other homeboy, five. At one time, I had at least $500 and $600 in like six, seven dual sales.

Wow. I was on Powertan one time, and they got hating on me so bad. I had so many people on me. They send the people at me. So the people come at me, and at the time, I probably got $3,000 worth for a commissary and myself, which is way too much than you can have. So they take it all.

You understand me? And they give me a rocketeering charge and storebox charge. So they take it all. But I know they came because these dudes wrote notes on me, right? Trying to get rid of me thinking they was going to lock me up. But they did. So me, being young and erging and I go out in the pot and beat my chest, I know one of you munk told on me, you sorry, broke, mump.

I find out who all this stuff, right? And, yeah, you ain't did nothing. So I'm so arrogant. I go to one of the dudes is holding all the stuff for me. And I load it all up in bags and bags and get him to help bring them. to myself like y'all ain't did and I still got you know what I'm saying she they out thought me well they said okay they send the people the next day yeah yeah came right back and did it again and lock me up how long do you go to the hole for she I stayed by about about 45 days so then do you

lose all your yeah all that's gone they're taking that it's gone it's a loss but what about people that are holding it for you no that's still mine's when I come out they still don't have it okay but I'm trying to be erging to show them like y'all ain't did none y'all must don't know I got stuff everywhere. You ain't hurt me. And I did that. And ain't nobody buck up and say, hey, shut up, or what do? You know, I do nothing. So I'm thinking, yeah, I've made my point. I get all that stuff. Put it right back and my seven people came and got that the next day. They came right back, shook me down again as if to convince me to somebody tell it. Like, yo, he took it back

and he said, he got some more. Come get him again. And they came and got me. And locked me up. But it's, for a guy that's doing life, there's no choice. Like, you have to hustle and you have to, like, what else would you be doing? I guess bringing in dope, but like... You know what I'm saying? That's difficult because you have to, you know, it's, that's kind of just luck. I got the guy. And you got to involve people on the street.

Right. You see what I'm saying? So, and dope and Virginia, it's good money. I ain't gonna lie to you. It's good money if you can get it. But the hate in that is so deep that you, if you can stay away from, you won't stay away from. What were the most popular drugs in there in Virginia prisons? The most popular drug would probably be, it would probably be heroin because it's the dope.

Because you got a lot of, you got a lot of dudes that do dope because of the proximity in Virginia. You know, you got a lot of Richmond dudes like dope, and you got a lot of tired water that are the two biggest cities in Virginia. And there's a lot of them in prison. So a lot of people like it. So if you get a lot of people like it, but a lot of people can't afford it. So when you get it and then if you ain't built the whole it, the ones who can't afford it, they're trying to take it. So it's a dangerous game, you know what I'm saying? But it's a profitable game.

But weed, a lot of dudes smoke weed. If you can get weed, you're just better off sticking with the weed because a lot more people do weed. A lot more people can't afford weed. Now, this is where penitentiary got tricked up in Virginia. They took their tobacco. They stopped it. And I swear to God, I thought they was going to turn the prison up. And they didn't.

But they took that. That became the biggest commodity. Oh, yeah. The hustlers love that. That was a gift. That was a godsend to the hustlers. Well, you could take on the street a pound of tobacco, especially like menthol, go to the tobacco store, get that, a pound of that for like $15. You send that in prison, get $6,000.

six unbelievable unbelievable you know what I'm saying how do they sell it do they sell by the stick or wholesale they were rolling

they were what they called or flat foot it out man they roll them jones up and sent them and they sell them jays they like

what they call mosquito legs they would set them Jones for like eight dollars man and dudes is buying them left to right and

you got COs bringing in a pack of new pools a pack of black and miles and stuff and going for

six 700 hours. Just for a pack of black of miles. A pack, my brother. So you're talking about the C-O-D-W. Bro, you can't stick no pack of new boys in your bra. Stick it in your boots or something. I'm bringing in there.

I'm going to give you $600, man. Boy, they're doing it. You see what I'm saying? Because that's a turnover ratio. Like, I don't know what? So it's crazy. It's a good risk for them, too, because it's not dope. So they're like, okay, if I get popped.

Even I get caught and you're going to, you know what I'm saying? Ain't a felony. But I'm going to lose my job. Yeah. Then they take a Newport loan. but they get all the tobacco out of there and they probably make 12, 13 cigarettes out of that at $8 a pop.

Wow. For one cigarette. That's unbelievable. One cigarette you're going to make about $80 to $100. The economy. Yeah, it's crazy. And then as time went on, the prices start going up higher and higher.

You know what I'm saying? That's what the price was when I got out. I've been out five years. You see what I'm saying? So you got dudes in there literally getting, I know dudes in there when that tobacco ran out. I'm telling you, man, no cap. I know dudes in there. Got 18 wheelers out here on the street running up and down the street.

And they got a whole business and everything. And it comes from tobacco. From the money they made in prison. And they're still in prison. Wow. And they're still in prison. I know one dude in particular. Shout out to you.

You know, he got four 18 wheelers on the street and two box trucks. Tobacco. Running full business. businesses. Four businesses. Mama and his uncle running. They're getting paid. Tobacco.

You know what I'm saying? He had two, three police. How interesting is, what was Virginia built on? Tobacco. Tobacco. I'm telling you, bro. So right now in Virginia,

it's high reward, low risk. It's just tobacco, you know what I'm saying? Because you got to think, how many dudes were smoking and had a smoking hair with the tobacco before they took it?

You see what I'm saying? The only thing that I can think that even can compare to tobacco in the Virginia system is coffee. If they take that coffee, I guarantee you they're going to ride. They're going to turn. They will be a bloodbath. So many people drank coffee. So many people got to have that coffee. You know what I'm saying?

But coffee and tobacco, and when they took that tobacco, I thought they was going to set that on fire. I was prepared. They didn't do it. But once dudes figured out the way to get in it, and this is probably one of the most disgusting things you probably ever heard. but it's absolutely That knuckle thing was pretty bad So whatever you're about to say

It can't be as bad as that I beg the difference Okay so we up at Wallace raised The redneck hillbilly place I tell you right So this is when tobacco is Outlawed already It's illegal

It's only supposed to be on the compound Not even by officers You know, it's illegal They're hillbillies They're coming in there Chewing snuff and tobacco spitting in cups. Don't even pose to be on the compound.

So what they're doing is when they chew it being they don't supposed to be on there, if they work in the booth, they chew, they spit it out in the trash can. They tie the bag up before they change shifts. So the next officer, in case they don't chew tobacco, come in and they don't tell them. And they take it, throw it in the dumpster, right? They're walking on the yard and they see a sergeant or lieutenant or white shirt come and they spit it on the ground and keep going. Dude started picking that up,

raiding the dumpsters, looking for the, smell of trash can and getting it back in, getting that spit out, chewed up tobacco, taking it to their sale, burning it, setting it on fire to dry it out, breaking it down, putting it in cigarettes, selling it, $7, $8 a pop. Dudes were stabbing each other to get it.

The knuckle thing was still. grosser because I've heard of that before. I've heard of that hustle before. Spitting. This is chewed up spit out tobacco and they smoking it and they're selling it and they get money off of it and they fight and get it.

Man, you're going to the dumpster. You've been just going because you see me going, man. Get out of my way and they beefing over the stuff because they're making hundreds and hundreds of dollars out of it. You know what I'm saying? When your tolerance is so low the people that are using it that you can actually get a buzz from this

recycled fucking tobacco juice. If that don't make somebody stop smoking, I don't know what one, makes my stomach turn. And when you see these jokers just spitting it out, what? Yeah, from their mouth. This is, this is come out of the officers,

uh, Johnson Mow's, bro. Bro, dudes was joking on your, dudes was beefing because of that. Dude's get to fight. Man, he's up. Man, you be smoking that,

you don't smoke in that spit out tobacco. Man, what's my man? Man, man, don't worry about my bitch. And they're homling over this. Yeah. It's crazy, but, but if you smoked, I used to say all the time, right, if you smoke and this don't make you stop smoking, brother, you will be smoking until you die. You would be smoking until you die, bro, because that was enough right there to make you

never want to smoke again, right? They're taking chewed up tobacco that's been spit on the ground, bro. They'll look. You see them out there on the yard walking. And two people see it at the same time, they're racing to it. Yeah, yeah. It's pathetic. Spathetic, bro.

Now, what did you, what about the alcohol? You said sometimes you would fund, like, these moonshine, these hooch, what do you call them, cooks? Yeah, yeah. Like, tell us about the booze in there. That's also an old Virginia tradition. Yeah, I ain't gonna lie to you, brother. I've talked about it. What was the name of that show?

It was a show that came on when I was right before the end of my bit, man. It was about these, just, what was? They lived out in the woods, and it was like offset from the community. They stayed out there, and they made their own moonshine. That was their source of income. And they called it some type of wine, and they used to sell it to the locals. That was what they was known for. It was a good series, man.

I think it was outsiders, out something. Might have been. But it was a good series. Anyway, I eventually had to sell it. There was my homeboy. He's from DC, too. And shout out to Jerry, man. He still locked up 40.

two years in counting. Best wine maker on the compound. He ended up moving in sale with me. And at the time, I hadn't even drunk no wine. I had stopped drinking this stuff. I didn't drunk no wine probably about seven, eight years. I'm like, man, I was back on my workout stuff. And he moved in there, man.

He kept making this wine. And I saw his process. And I saw how so many, it was in so much demand, you know, for people wanted it. Right. And he likes some of weed. So he'll make that and he'll barter. He'll sell it off. They trade it for the weed guys.

So he really just wanted to make it for the weed guys. But it became so good that everybody wanted it. Right. Like one cup action, we call it. Drink one cup, you blaze. Yeah, right. So he kept saying, bad, you show you don't want to try this, you want.

I said, no, I'm good, I'm good. And I never forget it was Super Bowl. Who was it? It might have been the Saints against somebody. And he was like, this is a buzzer, man. You sure you want. try one before we watch the Super Bowl together.

I say both four cups. You can get two. And I was like, nah, I'm good. He said, you show. He put that pressure on me, man. I said, yeah, I'm going to try one. But I watched that, John. I was blazed after that.

I was drinking his stuff every time he came up. And I funded it. I started funding it. You know what I'm saying? I paid for it to get made. You know what I'm saying? So it was helping him get money. And I was able to.

to, you know what I'm saying, get me a drink at all times. Yeah. Because I was taking save some, put it in lotion bottles, and put it all up with my cosmetics. I had so much cosmetics. And the longer you let it sit,

the strong-ha kid. Right. So I would set stuff up there in my cosmetics. I got 30 bars of lotion over here. So I put it in two, three bars of lotion. And I, you know, and then put all my other cosmetics,

they never knew. How much are you selling it by the cup? Oh, bro. They sell a cup. They probably sell a cup. They probably sell a cup for probably like $10, $11. You know what I'm saying? Pins, if dudes got weak or wine, $8, $9 for a cup, 16 hours.

Well, the police was having them water bottles, you know, drink the water, and they would drink them water bottles all day, and they'd throw them away. And you have one dude, he would go collect all the water bottles, who ever work with the trash, he'd collect all the water bottles and bring them to the wine man and sell them to the wine man, you know what I'm saying, 30 bottles of that. The wine man would take the bottles and sterilize them with hot water, and then he'll fill them up with the wine,

and you say your body is already 16 ounces. Wow. You see what I'm saying? So the money and wine is the best. I would say if you can get away with it, it's hard to get away with it because there's smelling. But if you can get away with it, it's the best hustle in prison because it's all in-house. And there's almost no inputs.

Like what does it cost you? You have to get smuggling oranges from them. All you have to do is get everything costs from the kitchen. You need no outside help. No. You need nothing. All you need is a kitchen plug. You need the potatoes or the oranges.

You need the rice. You need the jelly. Sugar. You know what I'm saying? And you need the juice. That's cheap. Cheap. It's cheap.

But the turnover, you can make six and eight gallons at a time. It's going for $10, $11 a cup. So you do the math. You know what I'm saying? You're talking about like almost million dollar businesses. And then you had certain dudes, which really, to be honest, it was only white dudes. they knew how to burn the wine off and turn it into 150-proof alcohol.

Straight white lightning, what they call it, where you light the fire to it and it let burn blue flame. And you had a white dude, like the last one that I was around like that, his name was Crass, a little white boy. He stayed funky, drunk, and hot all day. I used to just look at him and like, I don't know how they don't lock him up.

Every day he's like, Amen. He just messed up all day. So he knew how to make the liquor. He would take wine. He could take bad wine that ain't that ain't come up good. He could burn it off and make good liquor.

It's crazy. Now, a bottle of a 16-hour bottle of that? $60. Wow. $60. So he did that to fund his get out. And he ended up in the cell, with a dude that was, man, kind of like that, won't like that.

But he was like the enforcer, but then he was, it was like a gold mine to him. Oh, man, they put crashing myself. So now they got a liquor business that's like booming. You know what I'm saying? He's making liquor every week. And he's killing them. I'm talking about literally, man. He might make four, five thousand dollars.

You know what I'm saying? In a week. Incredible. Yeah. Now, is that because there's, so there's obviously a lot of money in these places. Yeah, man. And it sounds like the prison population is huge in Virginia. Yeah, Virginia, like 1,500.

You know what I'm saying? You can be on an institution. You got 1,500 people. Yeah, that's big. And there's a lot of them. Right. And then you go to Greensville. This is the biggest institution in, I think it's the biggest institution in,

definitely biggest in Virginia, but in most states, it's like three prisons and one. So you're talking about 15, 15, 15, 15. He's talking about 3,000 people. Wow. You know what I'm saying? And you got to count another. You're only disheal segregation. So you're talking about maybe 4,500 people.

So, what? So what year did you start to see light at the end of the tunnel? Shit, I ain't seen there. Lighting the end of the tunnel, tell it. The tunnel came to me. You know what I'm saying? I was like, man, I just, I went up for parole every year. And what you've got to do is I trick myself and say,

I'm going to make it. They're going to give it to me. They can give it to me. But probably somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew there wasn't, you know. But when that thing started coming, coming up with that dude, like I told you, Paul Taylor, man. Yeah, so tell us about this individual who basically, because as you said at the top of the episode, yes, you go to the parole board, even if you're doing life at 12 years, but they don't

give anybody that. Right. It was like a 2% parole granting. In the whole state. Yeah. So you're talking about hardly nobody making parole. Right. And then along came the goat.

Yes. Paul Taylor, who coincidentally, respect. has changed his name now because he changed his life. He goes by Taylor Paul. True story. Yeah, man, he changed, you know, he had a big lunch in the last year. And I was one of the keynote speakers. And he won't be liking to take credit for it.

But I said it in my speech. There was a lot of people there. And I was like, for real, for real, bro, you know, You don't like to take credit, but me and a whole lot of other people in this room wouldn't even be out here if it hadn't been for your moves. And that's just, that's just real talk, man, whether he want to acknowledge it or not. He got out, man, because he created a program and they wanted that program. I don't want to speak wrong, but I think the program was called insanity, and it was an acronym for something. Yeah.

But the program was official, bro. I mean, it was official, and they wanted to use it. then whatever happened with Dad and the negotiations, where he'd get out. And once he got out. But this is fascinating how he got out, though, because I think you're kind of glossing it over. They wanted to, to my understanding, they wanted to take the program. And they thought that he wanted something for the program and to facilitate the program. But they wanted to use it on their own within the DOC.

Right. And he did not approve. And they say, well, like, I guess. And this is a guy doing life. Yeah, life. And when we say program, you should know what that means, but for my audience, there... He created a pamphlet of a guide as to how to help people in the system become better productive citizens once they leave. Right.

Right. Whether that's like how to parent, anger management, how to get a job, how to, I don't know, what else is. involved. I mean, how to fill out the application. Right. How to, you know, all of these things, get the drivers. Like, he, he encompassed all of that in within his program. Right. And it was well, well-ridden and well done. Yeah. So they wanted it. Right. But he had stipulations on getting it. So I guess being the big DOC bully that they are, well, we're just taking. Not realizing he's not slow by any means. It's like he had the capabilities to create that. He had a copyrighted.

Right. So then ensued a lawsuit. Then ensued some negotiations. Then ensued, I'm free. And he on the street. So they said, we still don't want to pay you, but how about you just go free? Yeah, yeah, because the lawsuit in itself, you know, copyright, infringement.

Yeah, you get a lot. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? If people take your intellectual property and use it for their own. benefit. So I guess they was realizing that being the day the great big DOC and they looked at the comp, do you know what I'm saying, they weighed out their odds and he ended up on the street. And it seemed like that would be the end of the story. But it was the beginning. He'd get on the street and some type of way he gets itself in position to be around the parole board themselves.

Yeah, the members of the parole board. The members of the parole board, which if you go back in history of Virginia, or I don't know about any way else. Every time I went up for parole, my people had to submit some type of paperwork to try to go speak for me, just to speak in the behalf of me getting out. Sometimes they would get in touch with them.

Sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes they would let them talk. Sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes they'd just make the decision regardless. So getting in touch with the parole board was almost an impossibility. Now, if you was incarcerated and you write the parole board to say, I want to, you know, I've taken.

my life, that's just like just spitting out the window. You know what I'm saying? This man got in touch with the parole board, not only in touch with him. I mean, he was hands-on sitting up in offices with them, head of the parole board, vice chairman, all of the parole board members. This man started sending pictures in where he taking pictures, hugged with the parole board members. And people in prison, me included, lost their mind. Who is that? Oh, that's the head of the parole board.

What? And it was crazy. So everybody in prison started, Paul Taylor, Paul Taylor, Paul Taylor. We didn't get in touch with Paul. Paul got hands on with the parole board. So it was like he was more or less a liaison to the people that was locked up. And like he can, you know, recommend you.

And they paid attention to it. It's almost like a super lawyer. Right. And they paid attention to that. But this is magnificent. This is unheard of it. So everybody was trying to get in touch with him because he was the man. And then he started his own program out there on the street,

and he was getting big funding from Walmart, police departments. He was just doing his thing, man. He started a league, I think it's called The League. And it's about getting rival gangs. Instead of shooting up each other, suit up, put on basketball uniform and some shorts. You suit up. You all play against each other.

So he started basketball tournaments in the hood and making dudes stop the gun vows. And he's Alan Iverson's boy, right? He's Allen. And so Iverson's funding him. Iverson funded with the Averson showed up for him. Matter of fact, the first time did I seen Iverson was at a party that was for him. And Averson showed up. Yeah.

And shout out Detroit, Catchmore, too. Number one, Alan Avicin's hometown or friends, both of them was incarcerated with me. And the second time I seen, I was at his party. But, yeah, he support them. He grew up with them, you know what I'm saying? I'm talking about from the sandbox.

So, boom. Catchmore first day home after 26, 26 years. First FaceTime call he ever got, ever walking out of the penitenti after 26 years push the tea yeah welcome home man we want to go eat at you know what I'm saying see see people don't know the tired water

and I'm not from there I live there now but I'm not from it's rich with with talent you know what I'm saying if you think about it these are all the people that came from this same hood Alan Opson Michael Vic Bruce Smith what's that other dude he was number one

draft pick in the NBA too I can't think his name right now But then you go to Missy Elliott, Ferrell, Pusheteed, Clips, Timberland, Magoo, it's just so many.

They're all right there. Fascinating. These dudes are from that same age, and they grew up with them, they just got in trouble and went to prison. That's a small community. Small community. So you're talking about all these people

just right there, and, you know, they he still he still held him down man so so it's incredible so this guy gets out just unbelievably you know just act of god and now he's becoming this like figurehead in the community and and also the benefit of the pendulum swinging and and america kind of waking up to all the over-incarceration that we've done and yeah and that was in your favor too i think history was in your favor he was in. So obviously you shot a letter to Paul.

Paul Teller. You had to say, get me out of this motherfucker. I got in touch with him, but. What year was that? Probably I got out in 2020. I probably, I talked to him on the phone a couple of times maybe in 2018, 2018. And would he tell you to like get your shit together, like put together some good behavior? He asked what I was doing.

and he was always diligent in that, what are you doing? What type of certifications do you have? When the last time you had a charge, it won't like he was just willy-nilly throwing him people. You had to be able to create a case where he can fight for you. He can go to the people and say, hey, look, I know this guy. And look what he's been doing for the last five years. It was one of those types of things.

So a lot of people was trying to say where, you know, he's just helping certain people that's done third, but he couldn't help everybody. But his help helped everybody. You understand what I'm saying? So I just was always a, I'm a visual learner. Like right now, you can tell me how to run these cameras. I ain't going to know how to do it.

But if I watch you do it, I don't know how to do it. So I watched him and I watched, what he did because I was there and I said, hmm, I know this window I ain't going to stay open long. I get out of here, man, why they're getting out as good. And I

got busy and said I'm going to create my own program. I ain't been to no library. I ain't did nothing, which is another thing that I want to say too while we're on campus. That's one of the worst things we do as individuals being locked up is we accept that time and we don't get busy at trying to

get ourselves out. That's one of biggest mistakes we do. Because in life, there's always flaws and there's always urns, and we never go look for them. We just accept. They say, you got 20 years, you got license, you got two, and we just lock it into doing our time instead of doing our due diligence to see if there is an avenue to get out. And I was a victim of that as well. So with that being said, once I saw what was going on and my name was being skipped over, I'm seeing this guy make it, this guy make, and I see that gap. He went on. He did way more than what I did. So I'm like, I can go. So I lot then I

try to create my own program. I started going to the library. I started studying. So my routine was the same every day. I worked out at Gamma do. I stopped at all. I was library every day. You know, and I studied and I read and I created my own program. It was called Rehab, which I think is an

excellent body of work. And it was an acronym for re-evaluating habits and behavior. And I started shopping it around first to dudes, letting And dudes look at it, see what they thought about it. And they was like, man, this is John good. This is John good.

Then I started showing it the COs. Then I moved the sizes and lieutenants. And then I came up with a sign-up sheet saying that if I get this program implemented, which you take it. And I had over 200-some dudes signing. And then I had officers sign it after they read it saying that they like it. And I took it to the major with all these signatures and let him read over the program. and he called me back in a couple of days and said they love it.

He said he liked it. It was great. He would see what he could do. He took it to the warden. The warden called me and started talking to me and said they like it. Asked me how I come up with it. I told him, I just was, you know, been studying.

I've been down there doing it. You know, the librarian, the lady that run the librarian, she was helping me every day. She vouched for me. She said, oh, he's down here every day. He's diligent. He was doing it. He did that itself.

Oh, woo. So then he was like, hey, man, you know, I was looking at your record, man. He said, man, you've been in a lot of trouble, man. See, you've been quite busy. I said, yeah, but I ain't, you know, I ain't living like that no more. You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to get out.

He was like, why, why, what changed? I said, I'm trying to get out. And he was like, hmm, he said, when you go off a parole again? And I told him, it was probably about six, seven months later than we was talking. He said, just let me know. He said, shoot me a letter. If you stay doing what you're doing, shoot me a letter. I might go in there and speak for you.

And that was surprising to me because nobody had ever did that, no warden or said, not even remotely close to saying it. And he did it, you know? And it even shocked me more. So I was like, oh, man, he went in there. He said, wrote a letter for me.

I'm going to make parole. It turned me down, you know. And I was like, so I go up the next year, he's still the warden. And he said, send me a letter. I seen him on the boulevard.

He said, send me a letter when you go again. I got you. I said, okay. So I sent him, and then when I went, it's just what happened. That day, he was there when I go off a parole. When you go up, you go up in the same building that's in their office. So I'm in there with the examiner talking like me and you talking during my parole hearing. And he came in.

He said, excuse me, I know y'all ain't hearing. I don't mean to interrupt or nothing, but I just want to say something on behalf of him. And he was like, listen, I'm doing this for 30-some years. You know me. We met several times. He said, if I'm going to vouch for any. that's going to go out there and do the right thing, I'm going to vows for him.

He says, I just want to put that on the record, and I want you to relay that to the parole board. If I'm a vows for anybody that I believe we're going to go out there and do the right thing, it's him. And that was big, man. That was real big, man. And he was like, I just want to say that,

make sure you put that in the notes. And he reached over and he shook my hand. And, you know, they don't even touch you in there. Right. You know, he shook my hand right in front of the examiner. and I was shocked. You know what I was saying? It kind of like, they had me stunned for my words

for the finish mind, what I had to say. So I'm like, did this just happen? And, yeah, man, and when I made parole, they usually call you, they send the word to your counsel, your counselor call you over there and give you the news.

Usually, there's always no. Yeah. You know, you ain't making it, and it's turned out. You know, I've seen, not Grant so many times I don't even like putting them two words together, not Grant.

Yeah. Not great. Not great. I got a whole stack of papers like that. So, crazy thing about it is, man, this is our prison is just so unpredictable. I'm waiting on the answer, and I almost get a fighting with a dude. He was just playing with me, man. And that dudes would do that when they know you waiting to go home.

They know you under pressure. Yeah. And he got smart out of his mouth. The dude would never talk to me like that. Because he knew, everybody knew. I've been waiting for like 10 months. and is in the air, the dude's making parole now. Now, and Banky

waiting too now. So he knew, and he got all and I was ready to, well, I was, and we got down to it where he just kept talking, and I said, come on, come on up to myself, man. And my cellie begging me, man, he was like, man, no, no, banking man, you guys said, man, and I get him up there, and he come up to the door, he's talking

all loud, and he's like, man, I said, just come up in here, come up in here. I said, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. You fucked this parole up, I swear to God, this is going to be your last day on Earth. So when your ass cross that door seal and I promise you

this is going to be the last day you live You hear me? He's talking No, you talk I said I don't want to talk about it. Come cross that door seal

and I'm going to take your life, Nick you know what I'm saying? So what's you going to do? Because all that loud talking and all that I ain't with that No, but you

Listen man What are you going to do? Either come across the door seat or leave me alone man, leave me alone I'm telling you And he

Go, thank God You know what I'm saying And because I was there, you know what I'm saying? And the next day, I'm out there working. And it's probably about 20 minutes before count. And they called me to the booth. And they said, the ward won't see.

And I said, for what? I don't know. But you got to go now. I said, I didn't even dress. I had a shorts and t-shirt. He was like, you got to go. He called him, you got to go. I said, what is it for?

And he said, I don't know. got to go and they opened the side door told me go. And mind, mine, as I'm walking over there, I said one of these hot snitches don't call them, wrote a note and said, I was over here getting ready to fight this dude and he's probably saying, you got me vouching for you for parole

and you over here, I think he's getting ready to lay me out, lock me up, let me know, you know, like, nah, you got me messed up. Yeah. You know, and that's the whole thing I'm thinking when I get over there. So when I get over there, before I get to the building, he's standing out in front. I'm like, hurry up, hurry up. Because it's almost count time, and I'm running down the bulletin.

I'm the only one out there. So I go there and I'm scared. My heart pounding, pounding like hell. He takes me in his office. He got the assistant warden in there. He behind him, the computer. He said, uh, you heard anything about your parole? I say, nah.

He said, uh, hmm. I'm sorry to tell you you ain't making I was like for real man he was like yeah man you ain't making I was like 10 seconds past he let me sit in there and he was like

no I'm fucking with you man you made it and I was like for real man and he was like yeah and I say I said man no disrespect or nothing man

because he's just warden the head ward I said no disrespect of nothing man I said don't play with me like that man is you serious Because I never heard that before. And he said, yeah, I'm serious. You made it, man.

And I was like, he said, yeah. And then he shook me up again. He said, it's official or not official. I said, what did that mean? He said, let me show you. Spend his computer around. Let me see his computer. He said, his wife worked at another institution.

Cool with somebody on the parole board. He called her and said, check on him and see what's going on with his parole. We've been waiting for a long time. She called her. She told her he's made it already, but we just haven't finished the paperwork. Tell her. She called him, tell him.

He called me over there and tell me. And he showed it to me the whole conversation. He said, you're going to get your paperwork within a couple of days, but I want to be the first to you. Congratulations. Johnny, I'm telling you right now, bro, when I went back to that building, that's the best walk I ever took in 33 years.

I felt like, I don't know how this plan is like when you're dreaming, you know, like you daydreaming, like, this ain't really happening. And I'm walking back and it's like, I don't know, man, it's like the air smelled different, shit, looked different. Did I've been looking at for years? I'm like, go home, darling. I'm going to go home. And he told me before I left because he knew how important my mom was to me.

He was like, call your mom for you, go in. I'm going to call over until you get a quick phone call, make it quick and go in. And, bro, I went to that phone, and I got on that phone, and I'm trying to be, I try to turn my back to the end, but I'm on that phone right there.

Because I knew I was going to be bawling, you know. And I was like, boom, and I was on that phone. And my mom was in church at a phone door to her son. And she answered the phone load. She was like, what's up, baby? I said, Mom, I got to talk to you. Go outside.

She said, what's up? I said, go outside. I got to talk to you. So she'd go out. And she'd get outside. She said, what's up? because she thinks I said, well, I'm April. And I swear to God, man, the first thing I heard was,

hallelujah. Yeah. Boy, I just stopped bawling. I was bawling. I was bawling. I was like, Mom, I got to go. I just wanted to tell you that. I love you.

And she was just screaming and crying, bro. And I went to my cell, man. And I don't know. I guess it was just all over my face, all of my energy. And I walked in there. And my cell was like, he was an older guy. He was like, what? Yeah.

He said, With easy banking? I said, he said, you made a row. I said, he said, for real?

I said, yeah. He was like, gosh, so much. I was like, and I sit there, man,

that whole count, bro, I was in a daze, man, I was just like, I was crazy. Then I came out, I called my daughter.

I told my daughter, same reaction. It was crazy. She was driving Uber. I told her to pull over because I didn't want her to wreck. She went crazy and went side of crime. man.

And I couldn't believe it, though. I really, really couldn't believe it. In my mind, I had been locked up so long, Tony. And being so many turns out of my mind, I'm like, something going to happen. They're going to say, nah, we made a mistake or, no, we can't let you. I just was, I couldn't shake that. But I was still excited because I believed it,

but I couldn't shake that. You know what I'm saying? It's a long couple of days. You got to wait after you get the word, right? And then when they finally moved me to take me off, because when you make it, they take you off the institution and they send you to another institution and put you in a reentry program that you got to complete for five months.

Then you go home. When they moved me to reentry, that's when I said, these men are serious. You really? Let me go, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man, that's that's a one that one that, well, You know, yeah, that's probably one of it. If they say, you know, I ain't had no good days in prison,

but if I had one, that was it. That one day right there when he told me, you know, I made it. And I was able to tell my mother and my daughter that, you know what I'm saying. And, yeah, I never get that feeling right there, bro. And, you know, besides walking out, yeah, that's, you know what I'm saying. And that was a warden, bro. Yeah. That's a ward.

It's incredible. So, you know, obviously you saw something. I've been looking for him. I want to, I want to, I wonder, he retired. You know, I called up there a couple of years later, you know, they say he had retired and stuff. And I wanted to find him because I was like, I just wanted to thank him, you know what I'm saying,

personally from me to him, you know, for him taking that chance on me. And I, and I wondered, like, a lot of people in the system know what I'm doing. And I was like, man, I wonder if he know. You know what I'm saying? I wonder if he know what I'm doing. And, you know, but I'm a final, though, because it's easy, it should be easy to find,

but it hasn't been. because his name is like so common. I mean, his name is called, like a phone call. Warden Call. So, Warden Carl, if you see this, man, I'm telling you, brother, I definitely, definitely appreciate you, man, from the bottom of my heart, man, I really do. You know what I'm saying?

And I'd have been back in prisons to speak. I haven't spoke with colleges. I spoke with high schools, junior highs, detention centers, boys and girls club. And, yeah, man, I just always think about Warren Cole, man. I said, I wonder if he knows what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying? I really, you know, did what I said I was going to do.

Yeah, he hasn't wasted it. And you got busy right away. Tell us about your YouTube channel, you know, where we can find you, follow you, what you got coming up. Man, my YouTube channel is Banky Pound 1932. That's, I guess they call that your URL. And on my YouTube, man, what I do is just explain what prison is really like, man. I give you scenarios of what really goes on in prison,

not what you see in no sitcom, not what you see in no movies. Real scenarios in prison, man. And I always end it with a message, man, to be safe, be smart, make good decisions because this is the last place on earth you want to end up at while you're above ground. Your liberation is everything, man.

Whatever's going on out here in this world, you know, it gets worse on the other side, man, because you got to deal with that alone. And that's my whole message of what I try to preach over there. I also got Instagram, Banky Pound. I got a TikTok, Banky Pound, Facebook, a Banky Pound, 4-pound. And we're doing the same thing on all platforms, man. We put some positive energy this year.

I might have a movie. I'm working on them getting this movie put out, man. So we're trying to raise this money to get that jumping. We're pretty sure we might going to be able to get it done. And I'm probably going to have two books coming out this year. So, y'all stay tuned, look out for that. Very entertaining, very entertaining, I want to say. You know, you're a great storyteller.

And it's a good follow. Yeah, man, most definitely, man. Y'all come check me out over there. We're all about positivity, man. If you're about positivity, man, you're welcome. We don't take no bad energy, man. We just want to save these young people, man, and keep them from making the mistakes that we already made, man.

My definition of a hitter is someone who's been through something and want to sit back and watch other people go through it instead of trying to open their mouth and help them, man. For sure, for sure. Don't cost you nothing. You know, it doesn't cost you nothing, man. Man, what a talk. I really appreciate it, brother. Thanks for coming out to Austin. Absolutely.

Enjoy your time out here. First time in Austin, man, got out here, man. Thanks to Johnny Mitchell, man. And I enjoyed the conversation, my brother. I'm definitely in my travels and moving around, man. I know a lot of people, man. If they're into this, man, I'm going to recommend it come sit down and talk with you, man. It's a great conversation, great talk.

I would love that. And jump over to Patreon. There's a, well, while I got you here, you know, there's, I got a thousand more questions I want to ask you. So just jump over there for a bonus chat with Banky Pound. What an honor? I'm sorry, it took so long to get you in here. Yeah, man, but we was working on it. What's supposed to happen happens, you know?

It's been two or three years in the making, dude. For sure. for sure. Yeah, 33 years. You can wait a couple of years. Yeah, man. I got paces of Joe, man. All right, guys, bank you pound. We'll see over at Patreon. Patreon.com slash the Connect show. Thank you, sir. Thank you, man. Appreciate you, Chair.