The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Surviving America's DEADLIEST Prison: Inmate Exposes Bloody Secrets Of Victorville Penitentiary

Episode Date: December 14, 2025

In this explosive episode, Johnny sits down with Aaron Peila — a former multi-state Oxy distributor who survived five brutal years inside USP Victorville, one of the deadliest federal prisons in America. From running a massive opioid pipeline across Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Alaska, and the Pacific Northwest to navigating the violent racial politics of high-security federal lockup, Aaron pulls no punches as he breaks down his story in raw, unfiltered detail. Aaron explains how he built an oxy empire during the height of the opioid boom, how pills flowed through dirty doctors and retirement communities, and why markets like Alaska were paying exorbitant prices. He also opens up about the corruption inside the Bureau of Prisons, the influx of contraband phones after COVID, and what it really takes to survive in a place where everyone has a weapon and people get stabbed regularly. From music-industry ambitions and touring with rap artists…to DEA pressures, federal enhancements, snitches, RICO fears, and the three overdose deaths that nearly put him away for life… to trying to rebuild a life after 14 years inside a system designed to break you — this is one of the most gripping redemption-arc interviews we've ever had. If you want a real look into the American opioid era and the prison machine that chews up everyone involved, this episode is it. Go Support Aaron! Clothing Brand: https://cceapparel.creator-spring.com/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/aaronpeila/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@peilaroni This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: Hims! To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/CONNECT Rag & Bone! Upgrade your denim game with Rag & Bone!. Get 20% off sitewide with code CONNECT at www.rag-bone.com #ragandbonepod Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Intro: Aaron Peila's Story 01:22 Life Lessons From Prison 02:47 Reentering Society and Social Changes 03:47 Prison During COVID: Corruption & Phones 06:06 Prison Gangs & Racial Politics 08:36 Hustling Evolution: Weed to Pills 14:42 The Rise of the Pill Game 20:30 Building a Multi-State Operation22:49 This Episode Is Sponsored By Hims 24:29 Shipping, Networks, and Profits 33:33 Money Laundering & Legal Strategy 40:33 Getting Busted: The Pistol Case 49:41 Indictments, Conspiracy, and Betrayal51:57 This Episode Is Sponsored By Rag & Bone 54:15 Federal Sentencing & Prison Transfers 01:15:41 USP Victorville: Arrival & Politics 01:27:18 Race, Cars, and Prison Politics 01:34:37 Putting in Work: Removals and Demos 01:47:00 Violence, Stabbing, and Survival Skills 01:58:12 Hustles and Addiction Inside Prison 02:08:04 Getting Released: Transfers and COVID 02:18:16 Reflection, Growth, and Forgiveness 02:31:18 Life After Release & New Beginnings Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Deepop where taste recognizes taste. A lot of people are like, I'm getting clean. to get out of the life. Well, I wanted to get clean to get deeper in. With the pills, it was just a free-for-all. The party stopped when I hit prison. People get stabbed. That's just a part of those environments. Everybody has a weapon that's available to them. If you're not carrying it, you know where to get it from. Today's guest is Aaron Pila, a former oxy-cotton dealer who spent five long years inside Victorville Federal Penitentiary, one of the hardest prisons in the United States. Aaron ran a massive multi-state oxy ring during the peak years of the opioid crisis,

with distribution cells in Nevada, Utah, Idaho, and the Pacific Northwest. He finally got taken down and sentenced to 12 years in federal prison with his first stop at USP Victorville. Aaron takes us inside the life of an inmate trying to survive the deadliest prison in the country, the insane gang politics, the yard removals and the race riots, the drug dealing and the hustling, and the corruption that exists throughout the Bureau of Prisons. It's wild to think that institutions like Victorville still exist in America.

I really enjoyed this conversation. Aaron is as authentic as they come. Check him out on TikTok at Aaron Pila. And for more content, head over to patreon.com slash the Connect show. Ladies and gentlemen, this guy shine throughout this conversation. Aaron Pila, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. I think if you do your prison term right, like you cultivate that hunger and drive and discipline. like most people won't understand.

You know, a lot of people are in there running from the world that they help create through getting high. You know what I mean? And that was never me. I'm like, fuck that, bro. Like, I'm not going to be that, dude. Like, the party stopped when I hit prison. So, you know, it's maybe a little too, like, militaristic for some people, but I'm like fucking stuck in that shit.

Like, no, I got to figure this out. Like, I'm going to go to bed at this time. I'm going to go to bed at this time. I'm going to go to bed at this time. I'm going to figure everything out. in between there and you know a lot of people can do that like you know i think the gratitude when you're stripped of everything and you come back is on a whole other level you're just like fuck life is great absolutely you see through brand new eyes it's absolutely thing yeah wow see i mean 14 years

you just hit the bricks you've been home a year and then you just got out of halfway house a couple of months ago that's insane i mean i was in prison in 2011 when you fell and so and that seems like worlds ago. So much has changed in the world. Oh, it's fucking night and day. Like, I get out and just the social, like, the social cues, the atmosphere of the world. I'm just like, what the fuck? Why is everybody so sensitive? And why is everybody acting all weird? And why are you dressed like that, bro? What the fuck are you doing? What is Uber in her case? No, all that shit. It's just, like, it's a whole different place. So, like, my girlfriend,

she kind of, like, I'm watching TV the other night. I'm like, why the fuck? because I rent this basement studio, they're watching the football game upstairs. Like, I'm used to, like, you turn on the TV, you watch what everybody else is watching in the house. I don't know about streaming services. I don't know this shit. So I'm like, why the fuck can I watch the game?

Like, what's going on? She's like, well, did you set up some streaming services? I'm like, what the fuck is that? I don't know what that is. So were you really that isolated from the outside world? Because I know in the feds now, you know, everybody's got smartphones. A lot of people are trading stocks in there.

People are obviously moving drugs in there. Did you get updated information through, you know, the internet while you were in prison? Really what happened was when COVID happened, it changed the game in prison. A lot of people quit. They didn't want to deal with like the lockdowns. And it was just too much for them when they're used to just turn in a key and letting you out at 6 in the morning. and then locking you back in at 3 o'clock for count, letting you right back out.

And then at 9, all of a sudden they have to deliver trays. They have to fucking go collect the trash. They have to let you out for showers. They got to do all this shit. They were quitting. So they just had to hire anybody. So a lot of these fucking people, like, coming from other countries were getting jobs.

And they were like, oh, fuck, you want to pay me $8,000 for a cell phone? Like, so all of a sudden, fucking cell phones just flooded the system. Like, in 2020. two-ish probably. And so the last couple years of my bid, like there was phones everywhere. But before that, it was just really like camps, lows. Like it was real rare. Like USP, you might get a drone drop every now and again.

You know, FCI might get like a camp package over the fence or, you know, it was just a different game. So after COVID, these new immigrants they were hiring were a lot more corruptible. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You fucking just walk up on. I'm like, bro, you're trying to make. couple racks right now or what and like they're fucking with it like it was crazy that's dope what's wrong with that no i mean are these mostly mexicans or puerto ricans mexicans like mostly those two

but you see some africans and shit yeah uh i just never understood like you know everybody's got cell phones they want to talk to their people and you guys won't give us video visits like are you guys that fucking slow you know i mean give us some video visits we're away from our family across the country yeah like the federal system ships you everywhere Like, of course people want to fucking see their loved ones. Like, you know what I mean? BOP, they're fucking stupid. So $8,000 to get a phone in?

Yeah, yeah. That's a smartphone. Smartphones eight racks. You can get like a little thumb phone for like two, you know, just it doesn't have a screen. It's just you can fucking talk like this. It's crazy, you know, but. And are people renting that out? Like, is that a hustle?

Like, hey, you want to talk? Yeah. It must be, right? Yeah, for sure. That's a great investment. It's a dollar a minute. You know, so I mean, people buy a phone. It's like the 90s. It's like a long distance in the 90s, right?

It's like the brick phone. Wow. Wow. That's fascinating. Okay, so you're a San Diego kid. Yeah. Did you run, so you have Mexican heritage. Right.

But did they consider you a white boy in the feds? So it was like, it was a crazy situation for me because I worked in the music industry. I like rap music. You know, I fucked with all races. Like, you know, in the streets, I was never a thing for me. I didn't fucking judge people off of any kind of racial lines. Like, it didn't. The only color that mattered to me was green.

Like, let's get this fucking money. And then I get to prison. And the first thing that they ask me is, who do you run with? And I'm like, well, fuck. I mean, I guess I'm fucking white. You know what I mean? Like, I guess I run with the whites. So, like, once you fucking commit to whoever it is, like, that's it for the rest of the

way out. Like, you can't switch teams. So, you know, that was it for me. They put me in a white cell, you know, and then I go to the feds. I see people that I was in state with, you know, so, you know, I'm from there on out. That's what it is. It was definitely a different dynamic because I would have people like, oh, these motherfuckers, like I had this one cellie. He was showing me pictures of like Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, and some other chick. And he's Like, there's only going to be fucking 0.2% of Aryan, pure fucking women left in fucking five years and this and that. I'm like, bro, shut the fuck up. My mom is Mexican.

I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? You're talking? I'm mixed race. Like, you think I fucking care. Like, you know what I'm just? Right. It's that shit.

Like, and then you got people, you know, they want to use the N word. And it's just a way of acceptance. They're like, fuck, if I say this loud, people will. look at me like oh that's our brother you know what i mean like that's the type of shit you deal with in there uh everybody wants acceptance you know you know and then you have fucking gangs approaching you and shit like i had one one high-ranking gang member like hey you know who do up like like my fucking mom's mexican bro he's like no she's not she's Hispanic she's spanish blood oh like you're not gonna convince me of what the fuck i am like you know what i mean he wanted me so bad to just be like

pure Aryan fucking blood. You know, this skinhead fucking they're maniacs, bro. Yeah, they take prison real seriously. Yeah. This was in the feds or was this in the state? Yeah, this was in the feds. Okay.

Tell us about the hustle, how it went from like weed to pills to wrap. Yeah, the evolution of it. Okay. So when I was when I was selling weed in high school, I mean, it was just a normal thing.

I'd take it in the backpack You know sometimes girls would hold it for me I just sell bags, sell sacks Just ounces you know little shit right It was never really a big deal But I just liked the money You know it's just little money spending money Whatever just a little high school shit

When I ended up leaving home And going to Utah Because my buddy he got kicked out of the state As juveniles they said if you come back We're going to arrest you So he was in Utah So I got into some shit. I was on probation.

I got into a fight. My PO had already been on my back telling me, look, if I got to arrest you again, you're going to state's custody. We're taking you out of care of your family. We're putting you in a juvenile prison. So I get in this fight, and then I go to school on Monday, and he's there.

So I knew it was a rap. I'm like, fuck, it's over with. At that point, basketball was, like, the most important thing to me. So in my mind, I'm like, I go to state's custody. Basketball's a rap anyway. Like, so what the fuck am I going to stick around for?

I go home, I pack my shit, I go to Utah. I call my buddy. I'm like, hey, I got to go. He's like, you're welcome here. Go to Utah. Well, he's already down there. He's already pushing weight. He's already doing this thing.

So, you know, I jump right in with him. Like, okay, what do you need me to do? Let's go. Like, let's get this money. So I'm doing that. He ends up going to jail. I pick up where he left off. Like I already knew his plug.

I was doing my stuff. Somebody approaches me with like a heroin deal. And I'm like, I don't know shit about it. You know what I mean? Like put me up on some game. He's like, well, it's a double up every time. Like, I'm like, okay. And he's like, and I got Coke too.

Like, you know, I could show you how to move this too. I'm like, all right, well, let's check it out. So I start doing that. Then somebody else approaches, look, we got this ecstasy. Like, we're going to do. Vegas, we're moving boats. Like, this is the price. This is what you can get. So just by having interaction and always being a dude about his word, you're going to get respect and people are going to put work on your plate. So it's just everything started coming. And I had my hands

and everything. Whatever I could get my hands on, I was pushing it. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stopped by my local total Wine and More to grab a great bottle to share. With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy. If you're not sure what to pick, their friendly guides can help. Find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and More. Shop Total Wine and More in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21. And you knew how to get off like heroin? You know, knew where to sell it yeah there was Utah is a crazy environment because it's such a

religious atmosphere I think it suppresses a lot so when people find that freedom and they break away from that somewhat a lot of them go buck wild and there's a lot of money in Utah yeah so it creates that atmosphere for a lot of addicts and then I think it nurtures it because then they get that guilt they're like doing drugs their families shun them and then it pushes them farther into a addiction so there's a lot of issues out there but so that was that and then I started hearing like doctors oxies you know people talking about that just like in whispers it wasn't like a major thing at that point yeah that was maybe 2003 2004ish probably so I started middlemanning some shit like okay

you know I know this person but it wasn't really my bread and butter I'm just like you know doing my other stuff. So I end up going to jail. I do the year because I caught a case. My first case, it was a weed case, possession with intent. So I'm going in and out, in and out. At this point, the heroin is kind of overtaken. I started dabbling, dabbling in that.

So I'm getting addicted to it at the same time. So when I would get out of jail, I'd go right back to it. My peer was like, oh, you got to check in. Well, put your running shoes on. I'm not coming in. You know, and I just hit the ground running. Obsconding. Right.

Like a motherfucker. Yeah. They'd catch me. I'd be like, fucking terminate me. I don't want to do this shit. I'm not going to do it. I refuse. And they would give me six months, let me back out on probation.

I do the same thing. Finally, the last time, he's like, fuck, I get it. I'm going to give you this year and terminate you unsuccessfully. I'm like, okay, cool. So I do the year. I get out. But I have the mentality. You're like, okay, that was a hindrance.

I'm not doing that again. Like, I'm putting that behind me. But then the pills were blown up. So somebody comes back into my life like, hey, you got to check this hustle out. So we go out, have some drinks, and he lays it all out for me. I'm like, fuck, bro. Like, I've been putting pounds in the trunk. These fucking things stink.

You know what I mean? Like, you're telling me this amount of fucking pills is fucking worth what I got in the trunk, you know? Yeah. And I can fucking carry it legally. You're going to give me a license to carry this shit. It's not a brick of tan heroin. Right. It's like the stakes are way lower.

Right. And you got a prescription. Like these doctors are loose. So you can fucking carry it wherever you want. So it's a no-brainer. So he showed you this is what oxies are. Right. This is what Roxies are.

Right. Can you tell us what those are the two main opioids of people wanted back then? Yeah. So in 2010, the ingredients changed. So up until that point, it was all oxies. You know, that was the main thing. Roxies were like an afterthought. They were like, yeah, whatever.

Those are cool. But you got the big boys. You know, you got the green monsters. We want those fucking 80s. So, you know, that was the major thing was the 80s at that time. Everybody was going to these loose doctors and getting them. You could fucking get a little camp together and send them all to the doctor, buy all their prescriptions, you know, and do your stuff.

That was the that was really the movement. It kind of changed everything. And like I said, I had a prescription. So I was legal to fucking carry this shit. I never had to worry about it getting pulled over any of that shit. So it just made it a lot easier, a lot less hectic. You know, when you deal with addicts on all levels, every drug has a different caliber of addict. So, you know, when you're dealing with heroin addicts, coke addicts, weed addicts,

you know it comes with different kinds of drama well for whatever reason like the pill game it wasn't even though it's the same type of addiction as heroin it's a different caliber of person it was like a lot of middle class like you know what I mean so it's fucking it's a lot less headache too you know you're dealing with like professionals and you know people who kind of somewhat have their lives together on the surface but they're still addicts you know and I think maybe the doctors cultivated that because they gave them way so loosely.

For sure. They were so cheap. Yeah. You know, so just normal everyday people ended up getting addicted and had to turn to the streets. Yeah. Because they would run out or whatever. So you would, in a way, you kept them off the streets for longer because they could come to you.

If a doctor cut them off, they come to their dealer now. Yeah. I mean, eventually, I think all that turned to, I think that's probably what cultivated the, what we got going on. right now. For sure. You know, I missed all that. I was in prison. But the fentanyl shit, you know, it probably all stems from that, you know, getting cut off.

And then having go to the streets. And then they changed the ingredients in 2010. And then from there, a lot of it just goes to fucking heroin and fentanyl. So it probably all started stemming from those issues. I think the dates track because they stopped making it so easy to go to a dummy doctor, I believe around the same time that Choppos started sending bricks of fentanyl across the border when he would send the heroin or the cocaine. So it was like perfect timing.

Yeah. In those days, tell us about how you grew the pill game. Like, would you send out teams of people to different doctors? Yeah, so like the pill game was a lot different in the fact that with those other drugs, it was like, okay, this guy is the connect. you know he's who you go to he's going to be your sole guy you work with him unless something happens either he gets locked up or you find a better deal you know a lot of times they'll match it anyway like no i like how you do business you know but with the pills it was just a free-for-all because

you have doctors over here over here over there this guy already has a whole camp going over there he's trying to get him off you find out the doctors so you want to send some people there it's just you know it's it's the wild wild west in that way you know it's just not one fucking avenue to get these deals like you end up having your hands all over the place just trying to grab as many as you can get so yeah the problem was not having enough right no for sure and it's not like a batch of cocaine or heroin they're different qualities it's roxies or roxies i believe right like they come from the the mills the factories the space basically the same.

Right. Uniform. It's a pharmaceutical. Right. No, I think, you know, when they started pressing their own and adding the fat and all, you know, that fucked a lot of shit up too. But, you know, when you were getting it like that, people knew what they were getting, you know. So how big did you, how did you scale up?

How big did you get? So I just followed the pills. At the time, Vegas was a hot spot. You know, I was running hot in Utah. I had to get out of there. I ended up keeping my house in Utah and then getting a condo in Vegas. So I would just be back and forth. But I started spending most of my time in Vegas just away from what I had going on there.

And there's a big retirement community out there, you know, government funded health insurance, all that shit. So you could get everything for cheap. And that was where a lot of people on the West Coast in those retirement communities, they were getting oxies from. there. So I was just down there figuring it out. You know, you're a hustler. You're going to make contacts and connections and that's just what you do. So being in Vegas, I was able to, you kind of overtake people, you know, it's just like in the corporate world. You walk up the corporate ladder. Well, when you're in the streets, when you're in the drug game, you do the same thing. Like, there's people, you may be getting some from somebody. They're flawed in whatever their game is.

And you can see it. Eventually, you're going to over. take them. Their dude's going to come to you or, you know, you might find their plug somehow accident. But you just start leaping over people, getting more and more because people know they can count on you. They can call you and say, hey, I got this. You ready? Yeah, absolutely. Let's roll. You know, so that's kind of how that works. Eventually, you just get more and more and more because people know you're reliable. You're about your word. So you're wholesaling now to dealers. Right. So at this point, you know, I end up just shipping them out. I got people, you know, my indictment is like six or seven states wide. So I got people

all, you know, Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada. I think those are the only ones on my indictment. So that's the only ones I'm going to speak on. But I got people in all these states. You know, how am I going to get them? I'm just going to ship them out. Like, That was the thing. Yeah, that was the thing because they can't be smelled. So you just ship them or I would ship them all into one person and say, hey, look, you're going to distribute this for me. Keep a record and they would just keep a record.

Everybody would come in, pick up what they needed. It was just like a central office or whatever, you know. They would handle all that. I'd fly in, count it up, go over the books. Okay, everything's cool. Boom, here's yours. I'm gone. I'll ship you another package.

So I would just handle it like that and then every once in a while I would switch it like okay You know I think it's it's time to move somewhere else move on so it was just You know trying to play the game cat and mouse you know trying to be one step ahead so Vegas sounds like it was like the Florida of the West Coast In terms of like how easy it was to get pills and and then shoot them into different markets right Right, does that make sense? No for sure a lot of people because I came out to Florida a few times just like to go to Disney World to go to Miami for New Year's. People like, oh, you're going out there to pick up? I didn't realize, like, how big it was in Florida, you know,

but everybody, like, assumed that that's what was going on. I was like, no, I'm just out here hanging out, you know what I mean? But Florida was the spot on the East Coast. And so I figure, I don't know that Vegas was on the same level, but, you know, there is a lot of retirees in Florida, too. So it's probably about, you know, similar in that way. What did the amounts look like? How much were you shipping to all these different markets at a time?

I mean, I don't really want to go into the numbers on that level. Is it like ecstasy, like boats? Like you sell them a thousand at a time? No, you get a bottle is 180. Like, so you get them off the shelf from pharmacies or whatever. However you're getting them in 180s. You know, so you could get seven, eight bottles at a time pretty easily from different people, different sources. you know, and it just depended on

and where it was going, how many I needed. Like I said, I had people in different states that were pumping different numbers. So, you know, I was always able to keep up. Today's episode is sponsored by Hymns. You guys know about Hymns. They are revolutionizing men's health. They are disrupting the healthcare industry.

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which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality. Prescription is required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information. What does your profit margin look like? A bottle of pills for 180 pills? You have them. What are you buying them for? What do you give them to your people for?

And that would depend on where they were going. Because, I mean, if you're shipping up to Alaska, you're going to get a hell of a lot more than if you're just shipping one state away to Utah. You know, so every state around the country, has their own prices. And that's all dependent on how far away you are from the source, you know, just like every drug. That's why when you, the farther you get away from the Mexican border, you know, the price is inflate. You know, so similar to that.

It just depended. What does Alaska look like? Fuck. Alaska's crazy. And I never understood it because I never went up there. I had somebody else go up there and check the scene out. And he would call me and be like, right, you, you. you wouldn't believe, like, the amount of money these people are up here spending on drugs.

Well, where the fuck do they get this money at? You know, he's like, well, like the conditions are just so harsh. They have to pay people a lot of money to be here. Yeah. Nobody wants to fucking be here. So there was a lot of money up there. And I didn't even realize it at first. So the dude that was selling for me, fuck, he was cleaning house out there.

And I'm like, he's like sending me pictures of all of his toys. and shit. I'm like, what the fuck you got going on? He's like, bro, you wouldn't even believe it. Because as fast as I could give him to him, he was getting rid of him. And he was just killing it. And I didn't even know, like, for the longest. I'm like, what the fuck? Time to raise my prices.

Right. Time to send somebody else up there. I raise my prices. I got to get in on that. So, yeah, Alaska was crazy. What did one oxy sell for up there? Fuck, in some places. Like hundreds of dollars? Yeah, it was over a dollar a milligram in some of those places up there. You know, in fucking Vegas, you know, you're getting them at the pharmacy for $9 or whatever

or, you know, maybe 15 from somebody who has a whole bunch of people going for themselves. And then you sell them for 30, 35 or whatever. I mean, these fucking dudes up there, $100 or whatever, it's just crazy. I couldn't believe it. Markup is insane. Yeah. Wow. So a guy like somebody in that mark is like tripling their money.

Yeah. It's like better than Coke money. Yeah, I mean, it just depends on where they're getting them, you know, because some of them might be getting it four or five steps away from the pharmacy. Some of them might have connections right into the pharmacy, you know, so it just depends on who you are and what you got. So were you sending dudes to different markets and saying, hey, go set up? Yeah, I would try and get a feel for what was going on in an area.

Like, okay, check this out, you know, see what's going on. this is your baby to sit on. You know what I mean? You, you, if you found this and found it lucrative, like, let's get you up there. Let's get you set up. Let's figure it out. And we would go like that. Tell me about a market like Wyoming.

Wyoming is one of those states, too, that's like, you know, because it's rural, a lot of those rural areas that didn't have like a huge Mexican presence. Like, you know, the oxies was what was feeding it. And they had money too. So it wasn't, there wasn't a lot to fucking offer people in those areas. So they just, they turned to pills, a lot of them. And they paid top dollar for it because there wasn't any other option. Yeah.

That makes sense. What was another crazy market? I mean, anytime you're up by the, like, Canadian border, all those states are definitely, they got some money and they don't have a lot of options. Like I said, so the price, the inflation was a lot more. You mentioned Idaho. You got Wisconsin, all those, Minnesota, all those states. But, yeah, Idaho, too.

You know, it's rural out there. It's far from the border. But in those smaller areas, you got to be careful. You know what I mean? It's fucking, it runs hot quick. So you would heat up an area? And then when you felt like it's time to leave, you just get that feeling like, oh, okay, it's getting hot. We've dumped too many pills.

We've got to move on. Or would one of your cells get knocked and get arrested? A lot of the times that's what it would be. You know, dudes would get popped or they would fuck something up. You know, I always had kind of a relationship with my people that, okay, if you fuck something up, in a way that wasn't in your control. Like, you know, because there's rules to the things that you do, if you're doing it the right way and something fucks up, like, you know, I got you.

But if you're out there doing some dumbass shit, driving around drunk or whatever, you know, because people do that, addiction, alcoholism, it plays its part and all this shit. You know, you're kind of left a fan for yourself. But, you know, I always had a heart and still trying to head. help like you know you're locked up well your family's got to eat you know i'm going to try and help in that way but what you got going on in there like if you did that to yourself figure it out but you know i help like your kid's mom uh your family whatever it is you know things that you were taking care of while you're out there you know i'll do that much but don't call me you know

don't ask me for nothing like don't make me hot because you were out there fucking up you know so I was kind of always an understanding that I had. Were you really, did you feel like the DEA was starting to come after this, like it was any other drug, like it was Coke, like it was meth? No, I never really got that feeling. When I got busted with that weed case when I was 20, they said to me, they were like, look, we've known about you selling weed for a while. But the minute we heard about you selling heroin and Coke,

we had to come get you. They kicked in a couple doors and just found weed, but they were after the coke and heroin. So, like, I knew that was, like, a target, you know, and that was why I tried to separate myself, like, oh, fuck, they're not playing about this shit. Like, I don't want nothing to do with it.

I never really got that same feeling until maybe about a year, a year before I got locked up and I started to get some heat. There was a state cop I mean he'd been trying to get me for a while but he was taking it personal he was like pulling people over

asking about me where's Aaron how can I get him I had an attorney that I had hired kind of just in case if somebody gets popped like I need you to go there you know tell them shit's cool

they're going to be okay whatever you know make sure they're not cooperating and uh he got one of my guys he got him pretty good and uh he was screaming in his face like where the fuck is airing at and he was pissed so like you know that was like kind of a wake-up call in some ways i remember looking at uh i was stressed out i remember looking at flats in like london like i'm gonna get the fuck out of you You know what I mean? I'm starting to trip at that point. Exema is unpredictable. But you can flare less with ebbglis.

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You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglus, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about Ebglis and visit ebbglis.com or call 1800 lily. Arex or 100 545-5979. Did you realize that, oh, shit, they could charge you if they really want you and they identify you as like the kingpin, they could charge you for pills the way they could any other schedule one narcotic? I didn't understand the depths of it. I really didn't. I think a lot of people didn't at first.

No, I talked to my attorney and he was like, oh, no, and this might sound stupid. you know he said uh the worst that's going to happen you know 10 years uh you're going to get out in like seven and a half and i'm thinking in my head like huh i think i can live with that like i'm cool with that you know like fuck it i kept going you know but i didn't understand uh the levels to where they could take it with like federal enhancements uh you know a riko case uh they have all these other things where a manager minimum if somebody dies on the case that somebody sells to that person is is a liable 20 to life so there's all these different things that I didn't know you know he didn't put me up on

game I'm just like 10 years I'll do seven and a half okay whatever I don't keep keep going did you have any deaths like that in your case there was three and luckily for whatever reason They wanted to pin that on me. I had nothing to do with any of them. And they tried to get to people who were there or who were involved to tell them, no, I got the pills from Aaron. And those were the ones I gave to them when they passed away.

And none of them did, even though they all told on me, for whatever reason, I think their conscious ate at them enough that they were like, fuck, I can't do that to them. And they didn't, you know. Thank God. And I lucked up on that. because they put a lot of bullshit on me, but that was one that they couldn't and they wanted to. You know,

I definitely consider myself lucky in that aspect. You know, you just don't think about the unattended consequences when you're going through that shit. Of course. And that's a major one. So now you're killing them. You're in Vegas. You're making money like crazy.

Tell us about the beat making and the rap and shit like that. Okay, so... You look like vanilla ice, so nobody's going to be surprised when we say that you're... You look like vanilla ice, yeah. I do?

Yeah. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. So in 2006, when I get out, I have this goal in mind. I'm like, you know what? I had an older homie that started a clothing line.

He was semi-successful with it. And I saw that. I wanted to emulate it. I'm like, you know, let me, let me start making shirts, hoodies, hats, doing all this stuff, right? See where it goes. So I'm going to like hip-hop clothing stores. I'm going to skate shops, you know, just people in the area or whatever, getting my clothes into their stores. And they're cool.

Yeah, you can put it here on consign me, whatever. We'll sell it, you know, take a little cut. So it was cool. But when the recession hit, nobody was taking on new brands. So I was able to maneuver a little bit. I'm not sure that I mentioned it. So I had the opiate addiction. Well, when I got out, I was clean for about a year.

I started dibling, dabbling in the oxies, and I started taking a liking to that. So I decided I'm going to put myself in rehab. It wasn't court order. anything, I just needed clarity of thought. It was just one of those things. More or less, I felt like this was holding me back from taking my game to another level.

And, you know, as fucked up as that is, bro. That's some gee shit. So you wanted to get clean off opiates so you could improve your opioid dealing. So I could fire. You know, a lot of people are like, I'm getting clean to get out of the life. Well, I wanted to get clean to get deeper in. You know what I mean? So that was how.

how fucked up my mentality was. Like, this is where we're going with it. So I look into rehabs. I find one in Tijuana. One of my dudes had actually gone there. He linked me up with it. You know, most rehabs at that time were like 20 racks or something like that.

This one was like 12. I was like, okay, cool. Fuck, I'm going out of the country and it's fucking 12. Like, let's roll, you know? He didn't tell me what it was about, though. I go down there and it's like in T. Juana, it's in like play Estelle T.

It's in a mansion, you know, right around Tijuana, up in the hills. And they sit me down on this bed and they're like, watch this DVD or whatever. So I watch it and it's like this fucking ceremony in Africa. These motherfuckers are eating this root of this plant and like tripping out and falling over and shit. I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? And like, yeah, this is Ibo game. Like you're going to have visions. it's a psychotropic, but it's going to clean you out while you're under this psychosis

and like, you know, it's going to be a great experience. I'm like, fuck, you know, let's roll, you know, like, see where this goes, you know? I'm just a dumb ass, like, what the fuck? You know, my phones aren't working. I'm like thinking, well, they might steal my kidneys while I'm under, you know what I mean? I might wake up in a bathtub of ice, but let's roll, you know? So I do that. I get clean.

But while I'm at the rehab, one of my dudes sends me this song, and he's like, hey, you got to check this artist out. I'll check this song out, right? So I listen to this song, and it's about getting clean from opiates. It's this artist, his name's Haystack.

So I'm like, damn, that's fire. I like that song. So I start looking into more of his music. I'm like, damn, he's got some shit, you know? So I look him up on social media. This is after like two days a trip. And, you know, I'm trying to like, you know, I don't even know what the fuck reality and what fantasy is at this point.

I'm trying to fucking unscramble my brain. But I'm on social media trying to fucking come up with my next business deal, you know. I'm like thinking in my head like, okay, if I can get this artist to do some shows for me, I can get them to wear my clothes. I can set up a merch booth. I can sell clothes at these concerts. You know, that's the fucking move. That's what I'm going to do, right?

So I get out of the rehab. I contact his people. I call, it was a crazy situation. You know, he had a 13-year-old kid running all of his social media shit and his booking shit. But I call, his name is Snap. I mean, he actually owns an artist management company. He does real well now. I mean, he's older and shit, but he's just, you know, a 13-year-old kid at the time.

I'm like, yeah, I want a ticket on three shows. He's like, oh, what do you have? What's your idea? Like, what's your plan? What do you mean? I'm like, well, I'm trying to do Utah. I'm trying to do Vegas. I'm trying to do Idaho.

He's like, okay, cool. Let me call you back. So like 10 minutes later, I get a call, and it's the artist. I can tell because he has a real distinct voice. It's like scratchy, you know? So I know it's him. It's haystack. I'm like, what's up?

We start chopping it up. I'm like, this is my idea. This is what's going on. No, he kind of laughs or whatever. I'm not sure how serious. took me but he gives me a good ticket on three shows. So I do the three shows, but when I'm doing these shows, I have a lot of people that are hitting me up like, hey, let me open for Haystack, like over here.

Then I get involved, excuse me, I get involved in like a concert with the game, then like Paul Wall. And so like I have all these things and people are coming to me. Like, let me open for these artists. So of course, me being me, I'm thinking, damn, how am I going to profit? of that. I'm like, okay, I'm going to start my own label because if one of these artists pops because he's opening for these shows or something, I need to get some of that money too. So I get the label gone. At the time, Stacks leaving his label, I'm buying up studio equipment

thinking I'm going to open the studio, I'm going to do all this shit. And he's like, well, let's just come together and work on a project. You know, me and you, I'm leaving my label. you're starting your own label said all right I'm gonna come out to Nashville I'm gonna talk to you we'll figure it out you know sit down and chop it up and see what we can do

and are you moving pills at this time yeah I'm still in the streets you're in the streets but you're clean right okay so you know I'm on hyperdrive yeah I'm doing it whatever whatever I can do you know I'm out there so I get out to Nashville

we come to terms on a deal it's like a three album deal no at the time it's just the one. So we do the double-disc album. So I'm going back and forth, going to studios out there in Nashville with him, going back to Vegas, you know, still running around in the streets and shit, but I'm making this music now with him. That album is released in September of 2010. So I sign a distribution contract with the company out of Memphis. So they do all the distribution. they release it at that time it's hard copies you know it's a totally different game

the digital shit was just barely coming into fruition so you know my contract I lucked up because the digital shit was really non-existent and the part that I got paid for the digital shit was nice in the contract because they never really counted on that lasting you know now everything's digital but so I lucked up on that contract with them but but we ended up doing that project and then coming to terms on two more but me and him develop a relationship like this is my guy he's my son's godfather like when my son's born a few years later but those albums they they've never come out yet so the two albums that I'm still owed are unreleased whether or not I get those we'll see only time

We'll tell. You know, it's a, it's a situation with him that I hate to be the guy to be like, bro, if the roles were changed, you would have walked out of prison and had your shit. I ought to make sure you were getting money eight ways. If you sat in there for 14 years, you know, everybody's built different. So I had an OG tell me in prison, you can't expect everybody to. react or act the same way as you because not everybody is you that's it you know so don't hold everybody to the same standard uh you know if if things come your way it's a blessing but at the end of the day like you have to keep pushing forward you know you just do you so you were charged on top of all

the pills with laundering i think what three million dollars yeah were you pushing drug money through your the record label and through your merch line so what it was i mean anytime you have money laundering it's just basically converting money into digital and that's how they they racked it up they took like green dots they took uh what is it what was it that uh walmart used to use sending money what was it i mean western union western union oh money gram so there was like money grams there's western union there's bank deposits uh you know green dot there was all these different things So they just accumulated all that shit. And that's how they came up with the figure for the money laundering.

So they didn't actually seize $3 million. No, no. It's like with drugs, they estimate, oh, you were doing it for this long. So this is how much you would have made. It's all guesswork. Right. So people ask me about that shit. I'm like, how the fuck am I supposed to know?

Like, I mean, what do you think? I had like a record book at home that I wrote down like every fucking pill I ever sold. I don't know how accurate it is. And it's a shitty deal because on my case specifically, they had people talking about what I was saying on to other people who didn't really know. So you're going to tally up all of these drugs from people who weren't there firsthand to witness it,

but that just gets slapped on there. So, I mean, who's to say, like, the accuracy of their numbers? I have no fucking clue. You know, it was when I was fighting my case, it was to the point or it's like, look, you're going to trial or you're taking this fucking deal. I fought for almost three years, had sleepless nights, had my pride getting away a lot. My attorney telling me don't cut your nose off to spite your face because you're going to go away for life, you know, 40 years at least. Do you want to sit in there and appeal this case for, you know, the next 25, 30 years?

Or do you want to take this deal and maybe see your son? and graduate from high school and you know what I mean, become a man. Because when you take deals, you know, you look at it through the lens of all the losses. You know, what will I be able to catch up with? How many losses can I take? And what's life going to look like through that lens of another 10, 15, 20? So for me, the biggest thing was my son. You know, how old is he going to be?

Because everything else is just, it's a wash at that point. You know that. You know, I had some good advice, you know, people telling me, just let it all go. You know, whatever's not God given was never yours to begin with the clothes, the money, jewelry, you know, all of that shit is meaningless. You know, sis will always be cis, you know, pops will be pops, your mom, brothers, like, and especially your son, you know, and I had to look at it through that lens. It was a bitter deal to swallow. Of course, of course. How did they originally get on to you? So there was an investigation in 2007 that didn't go anywhere because it was for one of my friends passing away that was referred from the state and the feds didn't pick it up.

But then right before I went to prison, because I went on a pistol case, it wasn't related to the drug case. somebody else that i was dealing with uh he ended up catching an investigation so me and him were linked in 2007 so i think because of that they knew he was an associate of mine so when they started looking into him my name came up well i went to prison so it was like okay you guys are probably a little too late i'm locked up right but for the first year i was still moving product because I had set it up like that. Like, hey, if I go to prison, like, you know what to do. How were you moving product in prison?

Just because I already, like, the infrastructure was set up in a way that I could walk away because I always said, if I'm dead or in prison, like, this is what needs to happen. When my son was born, that was like a big thing for me because, you know, I didn't want him to go without. and I wanted my kid's mom to be set up in a way that she didn't have to rely on another dude or be desperate in any type of way that she did something drastic. You know, I wanted them to be secure and safe. So what was that infrastructure?

Like, you already had people that would go get, source the pills, and then they knew where to send them. Right. So can you go into detail? I mean, I'll go. I'll brush over it. You know, my buddy, he cooperated against me. So, I mean, there's really not much to hide on it. But at the end of the day, you know, he was like my closest dude.

He knew all my people. He knew what to do. I'd taken him around to, you know, the people that I dealt with. And I just let him know, like, you know, this is what it is. I'm going to leave cash at the house or whatever. Make it happen. You know, I don't want to have to call you and fucking say, hey, why aren't you over here? Any of that shit, if I am in pretty,

reason because I had a sentencing date coming up. How are you getting the pills? You got to at least give me that. How are you sourcing? Who are your connects? Like, are you going straight to the doctor or are you dealing with a middleman that gets him from the doctor?

So like I said, there was multiple avenues. You know, I had people who had people going to the doctor. I had people who were going to the doctor. So everybody has people going to the doctor, but it's never enough. So you find other people, people who are going to dirty doctors and have a whole bunch of them and you get theirs too so you just

as many sources as you can get yeah that's what you're doing so the network must be insane yeah there's just i mean there's people all over the place and there's multiple doctors so when you're in an area like that that's a hot spot right like you're able to network and find people and you know if you have the cash like they're going to come right to you they don't want to deal with fronting it out or right the bullshit of fucking middleman like they know they know that they can call you like, hey, I got fucking X amount, meet me. Okay, cool, I'm there. And the clinics weren't getting raided at this point.

They weren't getting shut down in Vegas. There wasn't anything crazy like that going on. Like, you didn't hear about it. Okay. You heard a little bit about like this doctor or this office shut down because they had too much going on, but you weren't really hearing about indictments yet. Not the way you were in Florida. Right.

No, it was rare. There was like a couple. doctors that I remember getting indicted, but it wasn't like a regular thing. Now, like with Jason, for example, our mutual friend who's been on the show. Right. Those guys were so federal. They were so flipping with it. It was like you pull up to a drive-through window and they give you like, you know,

a century supply of bills. Yeah, he was interviewing people off Craigslist doctors and shit. Right, right. He was like, he was like, he was on a different level. Yeah, he was like the doctors from the Simpsons, you know, like. Right. Barely, I mean, it's a joke. Right.

Some real Florida shit. So Vegas sounds like it was a little more professional, a little more buttoned up. I think they had to put on a better face. You know, I think for whatever reason, Florida was so loose. You know, I don't know, just some backwoods, hillbilly shit or what. I don't know what they had, but they didn't give a fuck, you know. Okay. So you are the guy that was just ready to buy from whoever.

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and get the best, most comfortable clothing you will ever wear. So when you first went down, it was over a pistol. Right. Could you tell us about that real quick? All right, class, settle down. Today's lesson is on the Arco Rewards app. Try to stay with me. The fundamentals are simple. Earn at least five cents a gallon in rewards,

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just have a pistol on me but this dude beats me for a decent amount of money I mean you ran off no this dumb ass I just had a party at my house I had a bunch of pills packaged up in skittles bags just sealed up in my pantry like not thinking anything of it and this fucking high ass goes in there is rummaging through my pantry and finds all these pills and fucking takes them and thinks that like I'm like nobody's going to know or something. I don't fucking know. You know what I mean? So he takes all these pills.

I end up tracking him down. He's kind of hiding out, but he's got to be able to get rid of him. Right. You know, so he has to put the word out like, hey, I got these fucking pills. So he puts the word out and I get him at a house. He thinks he's going to sell them all. And I fucking get back like a good portion of them. You know, I go in there like, bro, you really thought you were going to fucking just like steal all my shit?

And I wasn't going to find out. Like, give me my shit, you know. So they're short or whatever. He calls me like two months later because I'm like, you still own me too. You know what I mean? So make sure I get my shit. But I'm not pressing him. Like I got other shit going on.

It wasn't enough to really like, you know, it's just whatever. got shit to do. He hits me up and I'm like, fuck, he might be trying to set me up now. So I go grab my pistol. I go and meet him at the bar. He gets in the car. I got my little brother with me and he hands me all the pills like nothing. I'm like, oh, cool.

Like I didn't expect that, but fuck yeah. It's a good day. You know, my little brother goes in the bar, though. He's like, I got to get some cigarettes. Next to you know, he comes out and he's yelling my name. So I'm like, what the fuck? So I jump up out of the car. I walk over there.

I still got it in my waistband. He's like, these dudes are in here talking shit. My little brother, he gets me into like all this bullshit all the time because, you know, he's drunk. And when he's with me, he's 10 feet tall and bulletproof. So he's out there just, you know. So it gets me in this shit with these dudes. I go into the bar. They're sitting at the bar.

I'm just like, what's up? You guys got a problem with my brother. Like, what's the issue? And they get up, start acting crazy. I'm like, cool, I'm going in the parking lot then if you're trying to see me. So I go to walk out of the bar and I can see their reflection in the glass as I open up the door. So I go to turn around a swing and one of them tackles me and the gun flies out. So we start fighting.

Not for too long, but we're fighting. They're kicking the shit out of my brother. I can see that. There's like six of them, two of us. finally I'm just like all right because they're screaming we're calling the cops I'm like all right we're gonna get out of here you know they they stop well I start looking around on the ground because I'm like fuck where's my pistol at you know like so I'm looking and one of them grabs you're looking for this I'm like no I never seen that in my life he's like yeah he pulls out

a badge he's like sit on the curve so I'm like fuck I'm fucked now you know I already know it in my head I'm fucked so The cops, I think the cop shop was like three or four blocks away. So they're down there immediately. They put me in the back of the cop car. They take me into Clark County Detention Center, downtown Vegas. They book me for the gun. And I bail out immediately.

I bail out in the morning. I fight that for like two years. I don't want to take probation. You know, I got a good lawyer paying them good money in the state. You can beat a lot of shit, you know, with some good money. Yeah. You're obviously still hustling while you're out on bail. Right.

Okay. So it took them a minute to indict me for some reason. They indict me stateside, not federally. So it takes like eight months. I don't really know why, but I bond out. I'm just like doing my thing. My lawyer's just like, I haven't heard anything. You know, I don't know what's going on.

So I don't pay it any mind. I'm still just running around doing my stuff. I think my kid's mom, she gets pregnant maybe about a year after that well when she gets pregnant I mean it kind of puts things

in a different perspective you know I'm like fuck now I got to think for three people you know I got to figure out something long term and she's telling me just take probation and I'm like fuck that

like they were in the wrong you know my stubborn ass like they followed me into the parking lot like why am I being held accountable, you know, just just the dumb ass shit you convince yourself of when you're in the streets, you know, even when you're in the wrong, you're, you still feel like you're in the right. You're the victim somehow, you know what I mean? But that's not the case, you know, I fucked up. I eventually take that deal. It takes about two years. I take the deal for probation.

The judge isn't happy about it, but I got a good deal. I got a good lawyer. You know, they, they got the prosecuting attorney to agree to it and he goes with it. Well, they tell me in the courtroom, he says, look, I don't know why you're getting this deal, how you're getting the deal, and I don't care, but if I see you again, you're going to prison. And I'm like, okay, well, when am I going to see a PO? He said three weeks. He said, you have three days to check in to get orientation done. They'll give you the rules and regulations.

I'm like, cool. So on my head, I know, okay, I got, I got a shotgun at the house. I have it there for home protection because I travel. I want my kids, mom, my son to have that there when I'm gone. When I go to orientation, I'll find out, like, what's the rules and regulations? So I go in there to sign up. They pull me into the back immediately. They cuff me up.

They go through my phone. They go out to my car. and then they say we're going to your house. I'm like, fuck. I'm thinking in my head like, is there a way out of this one? There isn't. And it's right out in the open.

It's just sitting in my office. So I'm like, fuck. So I just tell them, I'm like, look, there's a shotgun right out in the open. I don't want you guys to freak out. It's just sitting there in the office downstairs. You know, I was planning on getting the rules, you know, if Jade could have it in a safe.

Like, I wanted to to have it there, but I didn't know how I could have it there. I was hoping there'd be away. And they're like, oh, all right, yeah, no worries. Like, it's not a big deal. Like, I'm not sure if I even bought it, but, you know, that's what they're telling me. So they go in there. They search the house. They find that.

They said, we got to take you in. You'll probably be out in, like, three days. I'm like, all right. that was the last time I ever saw freedom for 14 years you know my son is sitting there in his crib wow my kid's mom is crying I asked the p.O you know can I kiss my son goodbye they're like yeah uh so my kid's mom holds them up to me I give him a kiss and that's it that was it right there well you didn't obviously know though because there's no drugs at this point in any of the in any of the case Were these the feds that cuffed you up at the probation?

No, that was my state probation. Okay. The feds weren't involved yet when I went to state prison. So I go back in front of the judge, she tells me, I told you, if I see you, you're going to prison. So I've never been to prison before. This is 2011. He sentences me to 19 to 48 months. So in my state prison.

For gun possession? Yeah. Just simple gun possession. Yeah. Ex-felon in possession. Right. Ex-felon possession. Right. So I go in, it's eye opening. You know, high desert state prison out of Nevada, it's like 30 minutes outside of Vegas.

Is that the one you pass like right after you cross state lines driving in from California? No, that's the other side. This one is on the north side. So there's, what's the one over there? That looks like a fucked up one. You know what I'm talking about? Like after you pass like the theme parks and shit? Okay. I can't remember the name. of it but yeah I think they closed that one down like just because it was fucking gladiator school it was fucked up yeah okay so high desert is on the north side and then there's Indian springs next to it so everybody in the Nevada system on the southern side of the state filters in through

high desert they have the intake and processing there so I go there and it was uh you know fucking muscle head steroided out you know this these fucking cops that yeah you know first thing do is beat somebody's ass right there in front of everybody like you know just put on a demonstration you know i go through the the booking process they want to know who do you run with they tattoo check you you know they they want to know everything about you because there's a lot of activity on that yard like we can't put rival members in a cell together uh you know and then a lot of that shit from the streets bleeds into prison. It's just part of the politics and the game that's played. So I go through that process. They put me into, they call it the fish tank. I go in there. It's like a 45-day

observation. I feel like they just try and drive you fucking mad just to see what you can withstand. Like, oh, okay, we're going to classify him over here. Like, you know, he's fucked up or whatever. Like, we just drove this dude crazy. So we'll put him with the crazy dude. So I'm in there for about two weeks and then they call me out one morning early as fuck like before breakfast and they're like roll your shit up my where am i going uh they said we don't know anything just roll your shit up you're going to r and d like all right so i get my shit together uh i walk up to r and d and they're like you got a marshal hold you're going to the uh to the federal courthouse so in my head you know i'm i don't know what to think i'm like what the fuck like i'm thinking is this drop

charges like is it is everything finally catching up with me right now you know because we all have those fucking feeling in the gut of our stomach right when we're committing crime and how long had you been running pushing pills at the level that you had this point in about four years yeah so you know the it's gonna come crashing down eventually right know that yeah you know so I go in they take me downtown they indict me for the shotgun so i'm like okay could be worse you know what i mean i'm facing one to 10 in the feds i don't know what that means but that's what my indictment reads so they take me to a federal holding facility i'm there for about 11 months uh you know i get duped

by my lawyer who i pay because i'm used to dealing with state you pay your lawyer you're going to get a good deal in the feds that's not how it is you can pay whatever the fuck you want the feds have all the money in the world you can't fight it you can maybe get a trial lawyer or whatever but for the most part they're going to push you into a deal anyway they just want to go home they just want your money and go home so i signed this deal for like 30 36 months or some shit well the judge doesn't go by it he's like no i'm giving you 46 we fucked up uh that deal was a guideline range that you weren't even in so i'm giving you 46 months and you're gonna thank me later because this is going to help you in the long run.

Wow. I'm like yeah the fuck if I am. Almost four years for a shotgun. Right. Unaltered, just sitting at the house, not used for anything. You know, I was just like that never registered in my mind like this could be the consequences of that. Like I didn't understand that. Like I don't know. I don't know if I was naive or just I could convince myself that fucking, you know, shit really wasn't what it was. but, you know, 46 months, whatever. I took it on the chin. That was tough.

I remember, you know, there was only three times in my whole bid that I cried, and that was one of them because I went to sleep thinking about my son growing up without me. And I remember crying in my sleep to the point that it woke me up. So that was a tough moment. Like, okay, like this is reality, 46 more months. What a bullshit-ass reason, too. No, I was, you know, I've always been one to take accountability. Like, I'll take responsibility for me.

So I knew I did wrong. But like the level that they put it at in the extent was just like, damn, I just, I couldn't wrap my mind around it. Like, you know, it's just the federal system, the punishment is just so heightened in comparison to any state facility. You just don't realize it until you're facing it. but uh so they they sit me down for that i go back to the state uh i wait about 10 months to parole to the feds the feds uh when i parole out of the state they pick me up i go to a fcii i'm there in phoenix uh and it's a nice fcii like prison sucks but i pull up and i'm like

what the fuck like these look like apartment buildings there's palm trees i'm like yeah this shit I just came from fucking razor wire and dirt and gun towers. So like this don't look too bad. Yeah, and they're getting all kinds of shit in. Right. So I'm like, you know, I don't want to like glorify prison, but fuck compared to where I was at. Like, you know, I'm- They're making comfy for you in the feds because you're going to be there a lot longer.

No, for sure. That's what it is. So I'm there. And while I'm there, I start hearing about indictments being unsealed. And all my guys getting indicted. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And you're still running shit? Like you're still making money from pill sales on the outside?

While I was in there, fighting my case, it started to unravel. So I just ended up telling my dude like, hey, it's a rap, bro, because you guys are fucking this up. So, you know, I thought we had a good thing going. Then I tell him over a phone call, I say, look, liquidate the clothes, make sure that the contracts are all sewed up. and walk away. And, you know, he ends up telling the feds, like, that's him speaking code. So when he cooperates, because they don't have me on any controlled buys, they don't have me on a possession.

They don't have any of these things, but they end up with him saying, that's Aaron speaking code. And that was like, you know, really the only thing, I mean, the feds don't need much. They really don't. But that was like the only thing that was like semi-tangible that they had where I was like, fuck, he's going to get on the stand and listen to this recording and say this. You know, my lawyers telling me this. So, you know, that was probably about eight months, 10 months into my sentence.

So at this point, you know, fast forward another year and a half or whatever, nothing's been going on. Like I've been away from the game, away from the streets. I pretty much cut everybody out of my life. I'm just talking to my kids' mom, my family. Like, I don't think I got much to worry about. Right. Because I know these people are still out there doing the bullshit that they were doing. If they catch heat or they're doing something, that's on them.

The shit doesn't have anything to do with me. I mean, it doesn't work that way. When they got their target, you know, when they want you, none of that shit matters. So they're indicting people. You know, I see a couple of the indictments. my kid's mom ran into somebody who had some of the discovery so she reads it she comes out to visit me she's stressed out to the max you know i'm trying to calm her down like fucking relax you know but in the pit of my stomach you know i think i'm fucked i think i'm burnt but are you the target

this whole time as you're sitting in prison for the gun case do you think the the DEA and the U.S. attorney is putting together all of these witnesses and these informants to, to re-arrest you? Or does that, is that just something that comes later? Like, was it just random that all these 30 people on your case got busted and then pointed the finger at you? See, at the time, I felt like that's what was going on. But I didn't have anything as far as proof that showed that. It was just, it was too much of a coincidence.

you know, you got all my guys wrapped up. There's something more to it. You know what I mean? You're not just going to fucking leave me out of it. Like, you know, I just couldn't imagine that being the case. So I was just sitting in there waiting for it, really, you know, maybe. Well, maybe, though, because look, you were the plug. You had all these workers.

The workers give up the plug. Right. No, that's just the way it works. Yeah. That is the coincidence. Right. It's if you're in the street long enough and then you're not there to supervise them, they're fucking up. You know what I mean? And yeah, they get pops and turns out out of 30 people, 27, 27 cooperated. Right. Against you. Right. Now they, did they have another plug? Maybe. I think the game goes on. You know what I mean? When the plug goes to prison, it doesn't stop. people don't just say oh well he's gone so I guess and they don't tell on just one person I guess I'm hanging up my jersey too I'm out of here you know it doesn't work

like that they find other sources and they continue to do what they're doing but when the feds go to him and say we don't give a fuck about this this is who we want okay they're gonna say whatever the fuck they have to see right so you know if they're out there doing dirt and they get caught for it but they have it out and this person, you know, because I did help a lot of people. I'm not there to help anymore. You know what I mean? I'm not really that guy.

You know, I'm just some fucking dude in prison now. It was a real easy decision, I imagine. But it sounds like your name was kicking around the feds for a while. If they were, if they went to these guys and said, you looked in their phone and said, who do you know? Who's who's? Oh, one of your guys is. Aaron from Vegas?

Okay, yeah, we have him as a known, you know, oxy trafficker or whatever. I think it was targeted. I think it was more strategic. I think they knew because they knew the associate. So when the one dude caught heat and his name came up as associated with me, there was other dudes that came into play.

I knew of another guy who had got busts on a state level and the feds tried to talk to him and he had let him know I only knew this because I knew somebody that worked at the jail that told me like hey the feds were in here talking to this dude so when I called him on it he said yeah they came down but I told him there's no way you're going to let me buy anything from you but I'm sure he said yeah he sells pills but I'm not going to be able to buy anything from him. So they had, they already knew like most of my inner circle. You know, we all ran around together for a lot of years. So it was like, it wasn't that hard to put those pieces together. So my indictment was three separate conspiracies. So they indicted

all these people in these separate conspiracies. And then mine was the last one that was supposed to tie all the ones together. So all these people, they had already told, like, the whole game, they'd already let them know everything, how it went down, every play. Like, they knew everything, you know, so there really wasn't, there wasn't much at that point because there was so much telling. I think the only thing that wasn't clear was. amounts because there was just so much bullshit extra bullshit thrown in but at the end

of the day they don't care about that you know they get enough people to say something about you in a conspiracy in the feds hearsay is allowed so you know a lot of people aren't clear on that they think well you have to get caught or there has to be corroborating evidence for all these things like no it's you can't challenge conspiracy because hearsay is allowed So these people are allowed to say these things without any kind of evidence to back it. Lying is allowed. Oh, yeah.

No, it's encouraged. Yeah, it's very anti-democratic, very anti-constitution. Yeah, I mean, you hear a lot of people say they're going to look into it. It's called ghost dope in the feds. Everybody's in there for it. You know, nobody got caught with anything, but they had enough people telling on them. So they call it ghost dope because it doesn't exist. They don't have it in their possession.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so they came and re-arrested you when it was time, when they had their case. They came to FCI Phoenix. So I'm there. I call my kid's mom. She picks up and the DEA's at the house. So I'm just like, you know, here we go.

Like this is kind of what I've been waiting for. And sometimes I think like, damn, did I manifest that shit? But, you know, I think it was coming regardless. Unfortunately, she didn't have anything to do with it. So she was more or less a bargaining chip. You know, she has my son, the most important thing to me. And they knew that because they'd be listening to my phone calls for, you know, since the day I stepped into prison. They take her in.

She tells me it's been like three days. I'm outside on the yard. I'm playing basketball. I actually bump heads with this South Sider. or just playing one-on-one. So anytime you have an injury, you know, you have to report it because they're like, oh, well, if they see you have a black eye or something, they're getting a question, you know.

So go up to the LTs patio, report, you know, why your eyes split open or whatever. So I go up there and they're like, oh, yeah, we were just looking for you. I'm like, what's going on? They're like, we got a visitor for you. Like, fuck. I was kind of waiting for it. You know what I mean?

You have a visitor. We have a visitor for you. Right, for sure. One of those ones. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm already like, you know, that feeling in the pity of stomach, when you have something life-altering happening, and you have no control over it. You know, I'm walking around with that, not already. You know, three days ago, the DEA's there with my kids' mom, so I'm just waiting for it.

I walk in there. They leave me hanging for maybe like 30 minutes, and then they come in. They give me the spill, you know, they do the regular good cop, bad cop shit. You know, one of them is trying to empathize with the fact that I have a son. And, you know, we didn't go in guns blazing. And, you know, we tried to respect you on that level. And the other one's like, I don't give a fuck about you and your kid. And you know what I mean?

Just a straight dirt bag. Crocket and tubs. Right. So I'm just, you know, and I'm fucked up. So I'm in my head just like kind of laughing. And like, bro, you're not playing an elementary school kid. Like, you know, I know what you're doing. So I just tell him, I'm like, look, bro, I respect what your job is, you know,

but respect me as a man. I don't got nothing to say to you. And, you know, of course, the one that's being an asshole is like, wow, your lawyer's going to tell you to cooperate anyway. And they run it down. We want your dude in Vegas that drives this car. We want this dude haystack that you make music with. you know, like they call it the, uh, what the fuck did they say?

He said something. I'm like, is that what the kids are calling it? So they wanted, hang on. So they wanted you to tell on people that were working for you or that were just associated with you. Yeah, just associated with me. They just always want a bigger fish. You know what I mean?

They always want another headline. They always want it. It doesn't matter who it is. And I think it's a notch in the belt. Like, okay, we flip this dude. Right. I think that's what it is more than anything. Because the pills are, when your pills, you're getting them from a doctor.

It's not like cocaine. You're like, there's always somebody bigger linking it all the way back to Mexico that you could flip on. Right. Like, who are you supposed to flip on when you're getting the small amounts from so many different people? Right. You know what I mean? I think with the doctor's situation, there was a couple doctors that were like associated with my case that ended up. getting time not because of my case but like just throughout like you know oh this doctor got

and died it like a couple years before and this one a couple years before they don't give him very much time though no that's not really like for whatever reason that's not a target form i don't know why if it's the source yeah you would basically you would think that that would be a big deal but like they don't really get too much time for no no so you know i don't know why they want the street dudes right a lot more than them i don't know Maybe it's because you had guns and then they just group that with violence. Right. Like that's what they salivate over is a bunch of drugs and violence.

Right. So maybe that was it. But basically, it sounds like they were just trying to get you to tell them anybody you knew. Right. That they hadn't collared yet. Right. It's a notch in the belt. You know, I think they can laugh at you when they walk away.

I think they respect you on some levels, though, when you don't flip. For sure they do. I think there's that. For sure. I saw it with my own too, man. Yeah. I saw it like, I was like, man, if I tell right now, because I had a plan, I was going to, like, throw out a bunch of fake names and shit. Like, I just needed, like, a day. I tried to bribe the cops because they didn't have the, they didn't have the LT there.

Yeah, they didn't have anybody of, and I was sitting there with hundreds of thousands of dollars. I was like, just let me run for it. Say I got away. Like, take, go send your kids to private school right now. Right. Don't be dorks. Right. You know, and I guess I can tell, like, they want a piece of your soul.

Right. They want to reduce you to the, it's really like sadistic. Right. They want to like, they want you to become a child. And it's like, oh, my God, you're my savior. Right. It's fucking perverted. So, yeah, when you, when you stand on business, they're not happy, but they're, you know, they're like,

all right, fuck. Right. He's a criminal. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I think, uh, as men, you know, we hold value. in having some type of honor and integrity.

So I think on that level, they respect it, but they fucking want your boy. They want that soul. Yeah, they want your soul. Yeah. I mean, and that is what the government does, ultimately, because they give you a bigger sentence. Right.

They give you a bigger sentence for going to trial, which is your constitutional right. Think about that. Think about a sick that is. So this is my right for doing it, but you're going to punish me. This is my right. Everybody should be allowed to go to trial and, you know, plead their, no, have the guilt put on them in front of a jury of their peers without threat of more sentencing.

Right. Part of the reason they do that, too, is because they can't, if everybody did that, the system would be. Oh, to fall apart. Fall apart. Yeah. They don't have the resources. They're arresting so many people all the time. You're supposed to be able to look at your accuser, too.

Like, that's another thing. you know, we don't have that right. You know, so everything is just muddy at this point. The system is coming apart. It's not being used for what it was intended for. And the product coming out doesn't fit the bill that they're paying for it. It's just, I mean, there's definitely layers. Well, they're mafia laws.

They were put on the books for a good reason in the 70s when the Italian mafia was literally running New York City, like bribing everybody getting away with murder, getting away with tons of extortion, bid rigging, the way that they get away with it in Italy, and it fucks the society up. So I get it. They had to make these conspiracy laws because they knew they could never get the heads

of these huge organizations. They were never dirty. Right. But now it's just used to abuse drug traffickers. Right. No. And they're just... Very unfairly.

And it roaps in a bunch of people that get time that they don't deserve to be doing. Right. And they get the accolades and the pat on the back and the promotion and fucking, you're so awesome at your job. And they get all that shit, the ego stroke. And, you know, that's really all it is. Like, those laws were meant for a totally different purpose than what it is.

The end is coming, though. The end of the way we treat drug abuse and the drug market, it's coming to an end. Next like 50 years is my prediction. Yeah. It's going to be with the end of fiat currency, and we're going down a long road here. But yeah, this is the government is going to have to, a lot of the government's just going to naturally dissolve once we restructure the economy to where everybody is using either Bitcoin or everybody is, I don't know, like the health care system is going to change. They're not going to have a reason. Like we're going to have to slash a lot of this unnecessary shit.

This is my prediction. I mean, I think AI is going to play a part in that. Big part of that. Watching since I've been out here, I mean, I've gone 14 years. Just seeing the small bit of evolution that I have, I'm like, holy fuck, the efficiency that it can produce, like if AI gets wrapped up in our government, like, it's going to be like, you got to cut this,

you got to cut that, this is bullshit. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I feel like that's definitely going to play a part too. know, probably cure drug addiction, I hope. I mean, it could, people could say, well, if nobody has jobs, people are just going to do drugs. But I'm hoping. That's hope not. I'm hoping it.

It can actually get really bad. So. Right. But, okay, so, so you tell them to go have a nice day. You're not interested. They rearrests you. And then how long are you fighting the indictment? Like, because you, you think about actually going to trial.

Right. I'm going to a federal trial. I'm just spiteful, prideful. I turn it into a game in my head that these fucking people are just trying to break me. They want to see me just ground to dust. They're watching me at every fucking moment. You know, and I just try to stay as strong as I can and just keep saying, fuck that.

I'm not signing this shit. We're going to trial. Boy, there were offers initially. they would never offer me anything. They said you have a 20 to life, but that was it. And finally, 20 years, like not taking it. That was their deal for a long time, was just the 20, and then it came to 15. And I thought we had them. We went to a James hearing, and I thought we had them in that James hearing. They're supposed to weed through all the hearsay, the judge makes a decision on what hearsay they're going to allow in trial.

And I felt like it went really well. And they came back with a, oh, that was when they came down to 15. That was when they finally came off to 20. But I still wasn't hearing it. Because everybody else in my case had walked. Like they basically let everybody go home to tell on me. There was only one dude got like four. years and that was it basically everybody else got like a year yeah you know just

and none of the females got any time they all got oh the one so there was one female on the case she stood strong and got four years all the rest of them just got probation they cooperated everybody else just basically got like a year except for the one dude but you know, in my mind, I'm like, I'll take responsibility for me, but I'm not taking responsibility for like these fucking idiots getting caught, shit they were doing when I wasn't even around. I'm in prison. Like, I'm not taking responsibility for all this other shit that they had going on too,

because throughout the case it came out, they're not only getting pills from me from other people. You know, everybody has, it's just a free-for-all. Everybody had their own shit going on. So, you know, in my mind, I just felt like it was bullshit. You know, I was just really being stubborn. And then at the end of the day, these are my guys. And I'm like, they won't do it.

You know, they won't stand on that stand and point the finger and say, he did this. They won't do it. There's no way. But I knew in the back of my mind, I was convincing myself of some bullshit. They were going to, you know. It was just me, I guess, trying to get. justify, you know, getting that trial set in motion and fuck these people.

I'm going out in a blaze of glory. Like, we're going to see, you know, when it all comes down, who's standing. But I knew I was fucked. A lot of sleepless nights, you know, I got a good hair line, a lot of losing hair. Like, it was, you know, I'm in the shower just like, fuck, and my hair's falling out. Yeah, that's the saddest thing. Nah. So it kept me calm in prison.

It was my beautiful hair. Nah. And then you start having nightmares. Like my hair's gone. My teeth is falling out. Like, you know what I mean? I used to get like patches. I would wake up in the morning.

And there would just be like round circles in my beard. Just a hair missing. Right. No, that's what it does. Crazy. Just the stress. It just kills it, you know. So I fight it for almost three years.

And you're in county jail while you're fighting? County. They're grinding me to dust, bro, that county jail, the food, the commissary, the fucking, I haven't seen the light of day.

I look like a fucking vampire. Yeah, I'm fucked up. Yeah, I'm fucked up. Are you, must be spending a ton of money on your lawyer.

So I learned my lesson on that first one. The fucking lawyer didn't do anything for me. I spent all that money and he didn't do shit. So I'm like, I'm not fucking spending any more money on attorneys.

With the federal public attorney, right? I'm spending money on fucking. fucking commissary. Like, fuck that. And those attorneys for the feds are good. Yeah. Those defense lawyers.

No, they were, the one that I got, she was badass, bro. She, uh, you know, they said to me, they said, you might as well cooperate. Your attorney's going to tell you to anyway. Uh, I get up there and she's fucking gun ho to fuck these people. Yeah. You know what I mean? She was not with it. So, uh, she would come in every week.

She would bring me books. Like, you know, she would send me the discovery. Uh, we would kick me. it she was cool as fuck like she was uh not just a good attorney but just a genuine human being uh and to have that kind of connection because everything that i heard and everything that i saw i was uh so distrusting of everybody like i didn't fuck with anybody in there i was just like on my own time i had a couple people i was cool with but like i didn't use the phones uh my family would do video visits every now and again.

But for the most part, I just, I knew I had to write it out on my own. I didn't want to put anybody else as a target because I made a phone call to say hi to somebody or whatever, see how somebody was doing. So I just wrote it out by myself, but she, she held me a lot through that time. And she was super cool. So when did you finally make the decision like, oh, yeah, actually, if we take this to court, all these dudes, my workers, are going to show up and testify against me. I knew it.

Like I said, I was convincing myself of some bullshit. But it was about two and a half years in. They finally came down to 12. And I said, you know, I sat there. I thought about it. I'm like, okay, my son, he's going to be, he was only six months when I left. You know, so I'm staring at it through that lens. Like, it's all about how old is my son going to be

and how much damage is this going to cause. And I felt like, okay, I'm going to be out. As he turns into a teenager, I can be there, you know, to help him develop into a man. Like, that was important to me. You know, I already missed all the other firsts, you know, school, riding a bike, all that shit, you know, and that shit wears you out too.

But that was how I looked at it. I'm like, okay, I can live with this. Let's sign this 12 years, get me back to prison. I'm fucking, I'm over this county. Yeah. And you'd already been in four? So I signed that deal. I get sentenced in November of 2016. So at that point, I've been in four or five years. Five years. Okay. So that's obviously time serves.

Right. So my other sentences were already done. Yeah. Like I'd already max those out plus like seven months or something. So now those are done. I'm starting on whatever the new sentence is. is going to be, which ends up being 12 years. So, you know, the feds, they don't run concurrent with other sentences. It's always stacked no matter what. So I tried to push it for concurrent or credit for the time I've been in.

It's no dice. They don't care about that shit. So it's 12 consecutive to the 19 to 48, the 46. Right. So it's just stacking it all up. That's brutal. Yeah. So, you know, that's a gut funds for you.

But you at least get time for being in county, right? Just for like when that sentence, the 46 months ended. And the overlap when you were in county, just that little time you get time served for. Okay. Right. I don't trust the people doing the math either. I don't trust these state bureaucrats who make $20 an hour to do the fucking math right. No, trust me.

I'm in my sentencing computation looking at every fucking day. Like, I need mine. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I couldn't find any discrepancies. I wish I did. but, so I get sentenced. I come from Phoenix from the FCI,

from one of the nicer FCIs in the country, you know, so I tell the judge, hey, will you recommend me back to Phoenix? He's like, yeah, I can do that, you know, it's never a guarantee, but I'll recommend you to Phoenix to do the RDAP program because I want you to complete a drug program. So I'm like, cool. So he puts me in for Phoenix. I go in through Param,

that's like the West Coast hub for the feds. They shit me out. I go to Prump. I'm there for, I think, just that first night, they pull me out. And they're like, time to catch the bus to Victorville. I'm like, okay. Well, it's a fucking compound. There's two SCIs there.

There's a females camp, and there's a USP. So it's a fucking roll of the dice. We'll see where I go, right? Fuck. for whatever reason in my mind, I'm like, you're going to the fucking USP, you know, but I'm trying to fucking like hold it together. Like, no, you're going to be good. You're going to the FCI.

Like quit fucking convincing yourself of that shit, right? So we pull up on the compound, let the females off, pull up to the next one, the SCI won. They call off a bunch of people. The tension is getting a little thick, you know, and pull up to the next medium. call off the rest of the people. There's only five of us left. I look around and just everybody looks like they've seen a ghost.

And I just start talking a little bit of shit and busting balls because, you know, in that type of situation, I'm fucked up a little bit. I got to laugh. You know, sometimes you've got to laugh not to cry. You've got to cut that tension. So I'm like, fuck, boys, here we go. And obviously you've been in the feds. You knew the reputation of USP Victorville.

Right. Yeah. You know, there's definitely a lot of heinous shit that's gone on there over the years. The federal system is a small community. What happens on one side of the country, you know, gets to the other. It's like that little game that kids play, you know, when you whisper in the ear. Telephone, yeah. Right.

You know, by the time it gets over here, there was fucking 300 bodies. It looked like that fucking movie, you know, just massacres and rivers of blood. Like, who the fuck knows, you know? I don't really believe anything I hear. So we get there. you know, they take us through R&D. They tell us, you know, you got to see SIS. You got to see a case manager, medical, all these different things.

So two of them tell me, SIS and case manager, they say, are you good to walk this yard? Yeah. Do you have skeletons in the closet? Did you cooperate? Do you have prior charges? No, I'm good. They said, well, you fucking better because we're telling you right now. there's no protection for you out there when you get out there it's fucking it's on you and and your

people are going to find out whoever you run with so you better fucking make sure and i'm like let's let's go i'm good like i'm not checking in i don't got anything bad on me uh i'm gonna go out there and figure this shit out so you don't have to be affiliated necessarily no they just say hey are you going to get killed for being a rat or or having an enemy The case manager tells me, she's like, oh, it looks like you only got 26 points. I think at the time 25 is USP or whatever. She's like, you're just one over. You might be able to get out of here in a year and a half.

And then she's like, who do you run with? So I'm white. She's like, oh, never mind. You're not getting out of here. I'm like, why is that? She said, because it don't matter what's your age. You're putting in work. I'm like, the fucking case manager.

I'm like, God damn, here we go. like what the fuck are we doing so you blasted out yet that's my introduction are you all blasted and probably like half of my work is street work half of its prison so i have like my sleeve right here uh so you look like a white boy like you look well you look white but i'm saying like when you when you were in there you looked like a gang member uh i don't have any political work so you know they tattoo check you and shit they want to they look at your jacket to see if you have any kind of association or affiliation i didn't have anything following me but the one thing that people get confused with and i have a lot of pushback on my tic ticot content is that when dudes

come from a state system into the feds as gang members uh there's a sense of entitlement because they run the show in these state systems they're the guys you know what I mean, so they give out orders. You know, they have the power, the influence. You know, that's just the way it's been ran in all these state systems. When you get into the feds, it's not like that. So people get confused because I say, I'm an independent white, but they don't understand that independent whites and the feds are ran as if it's a gang.

So nobody puts their hands on an independent white without the rest of the independents jumping. We have our own politics. We have to put in work. We abide by certain things, but we don't take orders from gang members. The gang members have their own cars. We have our own cars. If there's a racial issue with somebody else, we come together as one. But we're not one unit necessarily because we have our own politics.

It separates us. And what are those politics? It separates independent whites versus, say, you know the Nazi lowriders which is a white car and right these every gang has their own politics so i mean you can't really say okay gang members specifically this and the independence specifically that because every gang is going to have different rules well what were some of your politics versus like say the aryan brotherhood that's so like with us uh everything wasn't like you know you have these skinhead gangs where like you're not supposed to get high you're not supposed to

to, you know, do business with other races. Like, you know, they have more strict policies because they come from state where that's a little different. I think a lot of that is a gray area in the feds now because the feds is more centralized around getting money. So everybody's trying to get some paper. And you have to do that with other races. Yeah.

So it's a little different. A lot of those gang members, their politics kind of have changed a little bit somewhat on that sense. But like with us, like we don't have those discrepancies. Like we don't have, oh, you can't do this with this race. You can't get money with them. You can't, you know, all these different things. Like we don't have the same like level. And a lot of it's just petty shit, you know. But with us, it's just like be there when you're called, you know, live a clean life, be respectful. And don't be over there, you know, eat, smoking, drinking, and working out with other races.

You know, and that's just basically it. Besides that, you know, live your life. You know, go on there, program if you want, whatever. Like, you know, it's not like you're forced to do these things. Oh, you're going to put in work, here's a weapon. Like, no, you're going to put in work, do it how you want. You know, like, it's just a different type of thing. And like I said, every car, every race, every gang, they all have their own politics.

But that's just with us. So then independent whites, this is the first. time I've ever heard about that. So is that the nomenclature? Is that how you're referred to when you're in the facility? Like, you know, he's independent. He's an independent white. Right. So that's where the confusion is because a lot of people, they hear independent and they think, oh, you don't run with anybody. But that's not the case. An independent, like, we're us. We're all independence. We run together. We have each other's Backs. Like we run our program just as if, you know, one of these gangs runs their program. That's how we run our program too. So there's that confusion because a lot of state systems people refer to, I'm independent as if they don't run with anybody.

Like for some reason, I think in some of those states, they can kind of do what they want if they run independent. That's kind of the impression that I get from talking to people on social media when I get some pushback. it's like independence in other states can eat with whoever, work out, whoever, but nobody has their back. They're kind of just like on their own.

But in the feds, it's a different thing. So at USP Victorville, there's no non-affiliates. Everybody's rolling with a car. Right. Everybody has a car. Everybody has to abide by

whatever their politics are for that car. There's no like, you go to the chow hall and this is just a table for fucking, you know, people who don't want to be affiliated. Like, no, you're going to be affiliated with somebody. You're going to mind somebody.

Right. No, that's just what it is. Now, putting in work, you said that the independents also do that or have to do that. Can you go into detail? Can you describe? So mandatory, everybody's doing a removal, at least. So when somebody hits the yard who can't be there or somebody breaks politics, somebody does something, somebody's running up debt, somebody's causing some friction between another race, another car.

and they can't be there because that friction is going to cause the whole car to crash out. So you got to remove the issue. So this person's got to go. Or this person has a bad jacket. They did something at the last yard. They checked in. Whatever the situation is, you send two people, three people. Just depends on, you know, how big they are, how with the business.

You know what I mean? It's like nobody's bigger than the car. You know, you can send 10. This fucking UFC fighter stepped in. He can't be here. he's fucking lethal. Well, the whole car's got to go. You know what I mean?

It's just, it doesn't matter who you are. You know, there's enough bodies, enough people to get you out of there. So mandatory, everybody has to do that. Okay. So when it's time to go take somebody out, stomp them out, whatever, book them or something with a knife. Like I said, everybody gets to make that decision. When it comes to weapons and knife play, there's plenty of people who got their hands up. So it doesn't matter.

But when there's a removal, like, you're not forced to do it how somebody wants to. wants you to do it. Like, okay, I'm going to do a removal. I'm just going to beat the hell out of this, dude. You know, put on a good demo and move on. Go to the shoe. I'll see you guys in a month. Right. This is what it is. Yeah, you mentioned that off camera putting in a demo. Right. And that's like the stereotype, the people who have no idea about prison, they're like, oh yeah, you got to beat somebody's ass on the first day. But you're actually saying that is true at a place like USB. You've got to demonstrate. Yeah. You want to put down a demo so that people watch it and say, fuck, bro, I don't want no problems with that dude.

Like, you know, and so that's kind of the situation, not only within your car, but also other cars, you want them to see like, okay, fuck, I'm fucking white boys that are with the shit. Like, you know what you mean? That doesn't lose respect. When you, when you, like, take off on somebody in front of a whole bunch of other inmates, usually a guard sees that is that not looked upon is like oh that's like an easy way out right like he's doing that so he doesn't have to go try to kill somebody he's he's he's doing it he's he's doing it demonstrably because he knows the guards will break it up and he goes to the whole like

you don't lose any respect for that no because you you try and do it in a place where the officers are not at right but you can't stop until the officers make you so you know the There's, you can lure somebody to the corner of the fucking soccer field as far away from the fucking guard tower in the middle of the yard as you can. You know, there's all different places and ways that you know, okay, an officer is fucking going to give me a good 30 seconds or so, you know, before it's called in, before they all run to wherever the action's at. You know, you can't do that in front of.

of an officer because that's a check-in move. Like, no, you have to put it down. You have to take the mace to the face. Right, right. You know, that's all part of the initiation somewhat is, you know, if you want to call it that, but yeah, you're not, you're not doing that shit in front of a cop. Like, if you do, that's your ass when you get out of the shoe. That is a check-in move, like taking off on somebody at the chow hall.

Right. In front of a cop or whatever, you know. Like, people are going to look at that, like, this fucking pussy. like yeah something's fishy we got to look into him because he did that so they'd take him to the hole right okay uh how long after you got to victorville did you have to do your demo uh it took me about eight months oh wow yeah so it's not an immediate thing uh you know there's plenty of people coming and going from there how do you choose your your spot do you basically wait for a genuine beef with somebody and then say, oh, this is my, this is my demo.

Because if you got a beef with somebody, you just go on the sale and handle it. Like, you're not supposed to be out on the tier, you know, whatever personal issues or beefs that you have, that's not what that's meant for. Like sometimes obviously shit flies off the handle. You got people with impulse control issues along with the addictions and the shit. Psychopathy. Right. So, sociopathy.

Right. The politics sound good, but it doesn't always work out like that. With the other shit, it's just, it's the wheel of misfortune. You know what I mean? You got people in the unit. People get off the bus, whatever. Like, you might just get somebody off the bus who's fucked up, and it's your turn. You know, you might have a unit that hasn't got somebody fucked up for a long time,

so you haven't had to do anything in that unit for a minute. You know, a lot of the times that's just the way it plays out. Or somebody has fucked up, and they're like, look, we're going to make you put in work because you fucked up over here and did something you weren't supposed to do. You know, there's a lot of factors that play into it. So when you get in, when you get there, everybody's names on the list to go. You know, it's just, you might be three days after you get there. You might be eight months like me, you know, some people, it just, it takes longer.

It just depends on the action. Yeah. So did you get tapped when you, for your demo? Like, did your car come to you and say, hey, you got to go handle this. That's how it works. Yeah. you know, like, hey, it's, it's time to go. All right, well, let me pack my shit up, put it over in my homeboy cell.

Yep. So that way, when they take me to the shoe and I come back, all my shit is here. You know, the cops didn't fucking finger fuck all of my property. And it's just waiting for me, you know, and then, you know, you have yourself a cool spread. You shave because you're not going to shave for a while. And, you know, you just wait for it and you get busy. Did you ask why? You want it to be righteous.

You know, at the end of the day, when the call is made, there's not much you can do about it. But I feel like most people generally want to know, like, okay, that was a righteous hit. Like, this dude had it coming. So, you know, of course you want to know why. Okay. So in your case? Yeah. You know, I wanted to know, like, you know, he was a fucking crash dummy for sure.

He was with the business, but, you know, he'd been removed from a few yards. He'd been down like 17 years. So, uh, what do you mean by a crash dummy? Like, what do you mean? Well, you know, a lot of people bounce around the system because they just can't get it right. Like, and usually it's from addiction. Uh, they just do faulty ass shit and continuously like, oh, he did this. We had to smash them off the yard because you broke politics on this shit, you know, and a lot of it stems from addiction. A lot of people, I just, I never wrap my mind around the fact that that addiction could cost you your life you know it's nothing to play with and people still played with it so uh you know

he's it's fucked up because usually the people that you have to do that too are people that you're cool with you know what i mean it's somebody you've been in the unit with you've broke bread with like you know worked out with you know all that maybe had some standoffs like all these things so you know you build those bonds through struggle and and when you stand next to somebody in those You know, you're going to have a bond. And it's the same race always, right? Right. Like, it's not like a white guy is going to be doing a demo or removing a black guy.

No. Like the blacks, handle the blacks, Hispanics, Hispanics, whites, whites. Right. Okay. Right. Gotcha. So this guy that you removed, he just violated. It's not like he had bad paperwork.

No, no. He was a good dude. Like I said, he was with the business. Like, you know, he'd had like some, I mean, he had some pretty crazy shit on his jacket, stabbing's and shit like that. So, I mean, everybody knew, like, when the chips were down, he would be there. But at the same time, like, we can't make an exception for you. Like, you've broke policy, so you got to go.

What did you do? How did he break policy? He, it was over a tattoo motor with another race. Fuck, it's been so long. Something to, shit, I can't remember exactly. what it was, but he was a tattoo artist who had got a tattoo motor. It was something to do with a tattoo motor. That's all I know.

I can't remember something to do like he didn't pay for it or something or sold it. I don't remember the exact details, but, you know, if you don't keep your word in those situations, like that's usually what it is. I look you in the eyes and, man, I tell you, I'm going to pay you on this day. And that's what people don't understand. It's like you hear people say, oh, he lost his life over a cigarette. No, he lost his life because he looked at another man in the eye and said, I got you on this day and didn't. All of the shit that goes on is usually surrounding something like that.

You look a man in the eye, you shake their hand, and then you fuck him. And people don't like that. You know, it's about the respect. It's not about whatever the property or situation was. Right. And so, I mean, really, that's what it boiled down to, you know? Yeah. We're going to clip that sound bite.

You look a man in the eye, you shake his hand, and then you fuck him. That's how it's done. Wow. Okay, yeah. I mean, so it's the breaking of your word, and word is bond. I do understand that from my time down. Okay, so, and he obviously doesn't know it's coming. Right.

So he's coming out of the shoe. He's got no idea. It's a crazy thing because a lot of the times people go to the shoe and then everything comes out. They're not there and all of a sudden everybody wants to be like, oh, he did this, he did that. You know what I mean? So they're not around. And everybody knew he was getting out. Sometimes they stay in the shoe.

They put word out like, hey, he's no good. He gets hit while he's in a cage in the shoe. Well, he was coming out. So it was like, uh, fuck, three days before Thanksgiving, they tell me. me and one of my other dudes he's a California dude you know they pull up on us hey it's time to go when he gets in the unit handle your business you know try and get him like in a corner or some

away from where the cops are at and handle your business so I pack up all my shit I'm sitting in the unit like you know I'm ready I'm having my last meal every fucking night thinking this dude's coming I'm living out of my bags I'm standing up on the top tier I'm looking out because I can see when the dudes are coming out of the shoe. I have a bird's eye view and this dude has a giant swastika on the top of his head. So I know who the fuck he is. The minute he walks out of that door, I'm like, okay, there he is, you know.

Right before the holidays, they do a lot of shoe kickouts because they're trying to clean that the shoe out, give it enough space. They can all go on vacation. And when the action pops off during the holidays, they got room to just put these dudes. who's in there. So I'm sitting there for like three days waiting for him. I see him coming down the walk. I go and get my buddy.

I'm like, hey, he's here. So just be ready, you know. He's like, all right. So he gets into the unit. You know, he walks, we're kind of over in the corner. He walks over to dapp everybody up. And the minute he dafts up my buddy, my buddy takes off on him. So I jump right in the action too.

and we're kind of behind the stairs. So we're giving it to them pretty good, kneeing them and shit. And it takes a minute for the officers. You know, they hear the squeaking of the shoes, the silence, like everybody knows what that means. So they come running out, you know, you got to take that pepper spray bath.

So you go until they make you stop. You know, I get hit with the pepper spray. I go down. My dude's still giving it to him. they hit him. When they hit him, I get up and I try to kick him. They get me again. They get us all down and, you know, there's pepper spray everywhere. They cuff us up. I can't see a fucking thing. My hand is broken. I end up having to have surgery on my hand. You know, they take us to the shoe. And they took his ass back to the shoe, right? Yeah. That's the cold part about prison. You get your

ass beat. Right. Nope. No. He was like, you know, cloud nine. Yeah, I'm out for Thanksgiving. Like, you know, he's thinking he's having a good meal in the unit. No, no, it didn't work out like that for him.

So they take us back there. You must have fucked him up if you broke your hand. Yeah, we got him pretty good. You know, like I said, you kind of, you know, you want that to leave an impression. You know what I mean? You want people to think like, okay, he's going to go. And when he goes, he's going to go hard. Did they charge you for the surgery?

No, they, uh... On your hand? I was back in the shoe for about a month. You know, that was even a crazier situation because, uh, you can't duck wreck. You have to go to wreck every day. You're in these cages. Uh, his cousin was in the shoe. Uh, his cousin was a high-ranking gang member for a gang that I'm not going to talk about, but...

Oh, come on, dude. So I had to go back there. His brother or his cousin had, he had earned his bones on another yard. He had killed somebody over on the East Coast, so he was a known killer. So I'm back in the shoe. Like, now I got to go out to yard with a broken hand. Can't duck wreck, you know, if they put me in the cage with this dude, I know what he's capable of. Okay.

Can you explain to people what that situation is when you're in the shoe going to wreck in the cages? So you're exercising in those big cage. Right. And they put you in there with somebody else? So they have the cages in the feds are four man cages. And they're gonna put you back there with your race or with us. We'll go back there with South Siders too. So sometimes they'll mix us in with them.

But other than that, they're not gonna put us in a cage with another race unless they're just playing games. Because if they do that, you're supposed to take off on them immediately. Right. Why do the whites and the Southsiders? Do they have like some kind of truce? It's just so in the feds, the politics will always change depending on who has the yard. In Victorville, it's a California yard, so it's heavily influenced by the California politics.

In the California state, the South Siders and the whites run together. So because of that, it bleeds into the federal system. And a lot of that correlates. Not always, you know, but a lot of the times. So they understand that, you know, politics is no secret. The guards understand it. Administration understands it. Everybody on the yard understands it.

So, you know, it functions in that way. You know, at times they'll even put whites and South Siders in a cell together on the yard, you know, so. And that's allowed. That's cool. Right. Okay. Right. Got it.

So it comes from the state system. Right. And bleeds into the feds. Right. Gotcha. So I'm back there. and they ended up putting me in a cage next to him. And he was a pretty level-headed dude.

You know, he was like, look, bro, I understand my cousin's a knucklehead. You know, I love him. But he crashes out all the time. You know what I mean? I understand you did what you had to do. And it doesn't got to go any further than that. You know, so, I mean, he was super cool whether or not he was just spinning me. Who the fuck knows?

but a lot of the times those dudes hit the yard and they don't even allow them on the front line. So they just keep them in the shoe and then ship them to the next spot. Sometimes I let him out. I don't really know what it's all dependent on administration. Do we want to deal with this dude? We know he's a maniac, whatever.

You know what I mean? Sometimes I let him out. Sometimes they don't. Well, they weren't going to let him out. So he ended up getting shipped. Right. Were you aware, did those people that had bodies inside a prison that had killed people in prison

were those do they have a reputation around their yard like hey you better Yeah It's a crazy thing Because you meet dudes That got bodies

And in your mind It's like this mythical fucking giant You know what I mean You're like You know this dude has that in him He's capable So in your mind

You build that up Like You know He's something like Inhuman almost And then you meet these dudes and a lot of them are just genuine, fucking real dudes.

Just, you know, for whatever reason chose that life. So it's crazy to sit down with some of these people and look them in the eye and really get to know them on a personal level because, like, we're all affected by the same things, you know? Kids. Like, that's the one thing that I noticed.

Like, these dudes doing all day who have pretty much gave up that fight of going home and have decided, okay, this is, this is my life, this is my kingdom, like, this is what I'm doing, they're still affected by that, you know, so you see the human side and you have, like, empathy and you understand, like, okay, like, yeah, these fucking dudes are wild, but, you know, they're no different than me and you. Right. When you say kids, you mean they're affected by them missing their children. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Still, it is pretty wild to kill somebody. in general, but definitely in prison. You know what I mean? With a knife and up close, it's, you know, it's not like shooting somebody from a mile away. It's not easy to stab somebody to death either.

I don't think. Right. And not only that, it's... Like, you've got to really hit them. You know, people kill people trying to get away with it. In prison, there's no getting away with it. So, you know, you've pretty much just said, fuck it. I don't even care anymore.

Like, I know, I know this is what it is. I know I'm going to get charged. I know I'm going to the shoe. I know I'm going to have all these repercussions. And that's the choice that they make. Can they, even in the feds, you can't get away with stabbing somebody? So even stabbing is, like, it's not, for whatever reason, the feds are pretty forgiving about violence. I know when I was in state, I went to the hole, and I was back.

there with the dudes that would been back there for years. In the feds, they don't do that. You put in work, you're right out. I mean, you use a knife, a lock, or whatever. They might keep you back there for an extra like month or something. Yeah. Threaten to charge you, investigation, maybe two months, you know, maybe ship you, maybe just let you write out. But even like catching bodies in the feds, it's still, you know, you're not going to catch a life sentence behind that. You know, it's... Real? Yeah. So for whatever reason, I don't know what cultivated

that, but, you know, they're pretty forgiving about the violence that happens in the feds. Did anybody's drop while you were at Victorville? You know, I saw a lot of steel ran up in people as far as just seeing somebody dead.

You know, there was a couple deaths while I was there. It wasn't anything up close and personal that I saw. But, you know, people got killed. You saw people get stabbed with like a bone crusher? Yeah, people get stabbed. Like, you know, that's just a part of those environments.

Does it happen on the yard? Does it happen in more isolated places like where people go to work or, you know, like corner like cuts, blind spots and shit, the shower? It just depends on the situation. You know, some people, you know, might really have a bone to pick and they're trying to get them good and catch them slipping in a corner somewhere where they know they're going to be able to get away with a lot more. Sometimes it's just more of a warning shot

where they hit somebody with a knife that's not as big that they know it's not going to kill them, but it's just basically saying I could have, you know? Right. So it's just, every situation is different. Look at them. Did you ever add, did you have to carry something on you? Yeah, it's, most people in a USP are going to have a knife.

If you're not carrying it, you know where to get it from. Like you have one hidden, you know, whether it's in your cell unit out on the yard, like everybody has a weapon that's available to them. Were there in metal detectors going out to the yard? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there's metal detectors in every unit. In most, you know, going into like education wreck, like they have metal detectors on most spots in the yard. Yeah, it doesn't stop.

much though right no hell no no you walk into those cells and you already know what time it is when i got in into that unit uh you know the first thing i noticed in my cell was as a sharpening stone next to the toilet like every cell has a groove in the concrete next to the toilet like that's where you sharpen your piece of it you know you lay you lay down at night uh and if you're not in your thoughts deep enough you can hear people cutting out their lockers You just hear that. Yeah. Like, it's just, it's a part of that program.

Was there somebody selling them? Like, is there a trade? Is there a market for, like, good, good shanks? If you, if a race sells a knife to another race, it's your ass. Because that's potentially sound somebody a weapon that could use it against your people. So, like, that's a no-go. You're not doing that shit. But, you know, every race has their own ways.

You know, it's just prevalent. Were there any interracial problems while you were there? Well, most of it was politiced out. There was a couple small riots within units that ended up getting politiced out afterwards. But, you know, we had like a lot of standoffs. You know, that's a regular thing. Can you tell us what a standoff is? So if you have an issue with another race and everybody's called out to the yard,

you know everybody's got to be there you better be there suited and booted ready to go you have all your guys on one yard on one side of the yard all their guys on the other side of the yard and you're just fucking waiting you know is this going to go down right now or not you know the reps shot callers whatever come together they try and figure it out uh if they can't figure it out then it goes down but you know most of the time people in the usp understand the concert of a situation like that. You know, people are going to walk away in a bloody way, and there's going to be bodies. So usually that shit, they want to poll a ticket out.

Because there's real money on those big yards and selling drugs and shit. People want the peace for the most part. People have a lot of business dealings going on. They have, you know, whatever they have going on, they don't want that to stop because some dude couldn't uphold their word or whatever the situation is. Some guys on other races, TV, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so tell us about the hustling in there. Did you have any money left when you went to USP? So for me, my hustle was always gambling. Like that was, you know, you run a sports ticket. Like, you know, people place bets, you know, take their money. Like, that's the best way because the job. Drugs left such a bad taste in my mouth. I didn't want anything to do with it.

I don't want to be affiliated or associated with any of that shit because I saw the repercussions. I felt it. You know what I mean? So, you know, there's a lot of ways to get money. There's a lot of liquor. You know, there's, everybody has a hustle, whether it's tattooing art,

going into sales, building shelves and painting, stealing food out of the kitchen, bringing it back and cooking and selling food. hobbycraft shit. Like there's a million ways to get money in prison. Everybody has a hustle. Buying stamps. Yeah.

You got your storeman who gets all the commissary and then stores it out for stamps and then sells the stamps, you know, gets more commissary. Like it's like a microcosm of the real world in that way. Do they also have Indians that run the stores? Sorry. It wasn't that much of a microcosm. Okay, so your shit was you had ran a sports book. Right.

Okay. Right. No, I liked it. You know, because I've always been into sports. So for me, it wasn't like that far off of, you know, I watch games. Yeah. I collect money. Like, you know, I had a good time with it.

You know, it was cool. It supported me through my bid. What did your car, were there drug addicts within? Like, I'm fascinated by how many people are on dope, especially in the feds. Like, heroin is big. It's terrible. It's really not heroin, though. That shit is all those other drugs.

That shit got pushed to the back by K2, that fucking shit sprayed on paper coming from China. So you still see, like, real drugs. It's rare, though. Like, everything is synthetic. The synthetic drugs have fucked the system. up completely. These people have been turned out by this shit. It's like crack. Wow. It's a sad situation because you see good dudes fall into that addiction and end up selling off all their shit and then getting smashed off the yard because they can't keep up

with their habit and pay their debts. So, you know, all that honor is slipping away. That's just like the streets. Yeah. They give them way to synthetics. Yeah. No, the addiction is. the synthetic. It just, it ruined a whole demographic of people. So, so they spray it on like whatever, envelopes, letters. Yeah, just whatever. I mean, there's just, I mean, whatever you can think of anything that, that paper, you know, that's what they're doing. So it's like. And then you can literally sell it. And then how do you, do you have to extract it from the paper once it gets in the, I mean,

people just smoke paper. Wow. You know, it's a, it's a fucked up situation, you know, and it's, it's never ending. Whenever there's money in play, you can't do anything to stop it. You know, so how it's getting in, where it's coming from, all these different things.

Like, I'm not going to go into any of those kind of specifics, but there's enough money being generated that people won't slow down. You know, I mean, you just told us at the beginning of the episode,

guards were taking $8,000 for cell phones. Yeah, cell phone, you know what I mean? So they'll probably get you some K2 if you need it. Right. Right? I mean, I don't know.

Probably or, you know, obviously, cigarettes is huge, right? Maybe this guy won't bring in dope, but he'll bring in some cigarettes because there's a huge markup for cigarettes. And if he gets caught, it's not like getting caught with drugs. Right. You know? No, that's a fact. I mean, the cigarettes, nobody's getting in trouble for that shit. So it's like, oh, you're just smoking a cigarette?

I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? Like, you don't got any drugs. That's how I care about. Who had the yard for the majority of the time while you were at Victorville? What race? So that's a misconception, too, because a lot of people say, oh, this race ran the yard. Like, there's no race that runs yards in the feds.

It's not the way it works. People might have numbers on different yards because it's closer to whatever that area is, you know. But in the feds, nobody's going to tell another race they have to do something. And that's not the way it works. So yeah, there's like wilder cars. And sometimes they have higher numbers, which gives them a little more flex. But at the end of the day, nobody's going to tell another race, like, you guys have to do this. You guys have to do that.

So everybody has their own, their own politics, their own car. They run that show. And, you know, hopefully everybody can. Well, who control the guards the most? Because usually it's based off the demographics, right? So if it's a super rural area, it's probably the white boys have the most sway with the guards because they're also these like skinhead leaning people. They might come from the same communities, you know, but at Victorville could be the Hispanics because they just know more people. They might know that they might have a more, more of a racial camaraderie with the guards.

So like who had the most advantage when it came to to leaning on a guard to bring in something or to do something? What race went at Victorville? You know, I think that generally whites and Mexicans have more influence and more sway when it came to that. You know, you're in Southern California. You know, that's the birth of gang activity. You know, so a lot of these dudes, these high-powered dudes, you know, they have a level of respect, not just from people in prison, but the people working at the prison. And, you know, the whites and the Mexicans, Southsiders, that's their backyard. So they're always going to have a little more sway in how things are in.

Poor blacks. Who do they have? Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of bloods, a lot of crips there. But the guards, you know, they weren't, for whatever reason, they didn't really have a lot of black guards working there. You know what I mean? but that was the first time I'd ever been in a situation because we're only like not even 10% of the population, you know.

The whites. Yeah. So like our numbers are so small. But the blacks get locked up at such a high rate. Like everywhere in the feds is like they have these fucking huge numbers. Yeah. They break themselves into all these smaller cars and shit. You know, because they don't, these dudes, black dudes from Florida,

aren't going to see eye to eye. with the Crips from California because they run a strict fucking heavily politically program. Yeah. And these other dudes is just like the Wild Wild West out there. They don't give a fuck about anything. Anything goes, you know, so, you know, they splinter off. And like the TVs, you can tell just because they have so many TVs, but this is a blood TV, this is a Crip TV.

This is a Northeast TV. This is a South TV. You know what I mean? Right. It's regional. Yeah. Yeah. makes sense.

All right. So you, after four years, did you have any close calls in terms of like either getting stabbed or having to stab somebody or whatever, catching another case? No, there was a, you know, for whatever reason, and I've asked myself why over the years, I've never found myself in those situations where it was like a life-threatening situation. You know, you got to fight. That's just what it is.

You know, somebody disrespects you. You go in the cell, you handle that. But, you know, people will be like, okay, you want to use weapons. You know, are we going in there with knives? Like, what's the deal? Like, you know, you talk about that. Wow. I was never in a situation where I had to,

to go at somebody like that, thank God. And I always wonder why, you know, because I didn't walk around with my head down. I wasn't, like, quiet by any means, you know, I was out there making money, playing basketball with other races, like, you know, in the unit. And I guess the only thing I can think of was I was respected enough that people kind of just didn't test me on that level. and I never tried to put me in a situation like that. You know, and it's kind of weird, like,

because a lot of people go through that kind of shit. You know, I feel like addiction plays a huge part in that, but it's how you carry yourself, you know, and I guess how I carried myself was enough for people to just look at me in a light, like, okay, he's a stand-up dude, he's going to go. He has some honor and some respect about him, and that's just what it was. It's pretty crazy, though, that before going into a cell to handle some shit, you guys talk it over, you're like, we go fists or knives.

Yeah. That's like some Bill the butcher shit from gangs of New York. No, it's like the real deal. That's insane. Like calmly. Right. No, the dark ages type shit. How far do you want to take this?

Right. Because I'm willing to die. Right. I probably have like 100 years. No, and it's real. Like, I remember hearing that shit, too. until you see it you're just like holy fuck you know these dudes are dark ages these dudes are maniacs maniacs maniacs were you doing short time like it's 12 years shot a pretty short compared to what

those dudes got up there so the one thing i will say that helped me put shit in perspective was when i hit the yard uh one of the first dudes i was talking to i was just you know kind of kind of fucked up in my head like damn all my dudes turned on me you know i took all this time you know, I can say and justify and do all these things. Okay, my kid's mom went home. She's with my son. You know, I can hang my hat on that. But it was still a bitter pill to swallow, you know.

And so I'm never whining, you know, and I hope I wasn't in this situation. But I'm telling the dude my story. And, you know, just nonchalantly, he says, yeah, yeah, I feel you, bro. I went to trial. all my dudes turned on me too you know I got 50 and I was like oh you got 50 months he's like no I got 50 years

I said fuck bro I said you're never going to hear me complain about shit again and I apologize because this dude was positive bro he he wasn't fucked up he wasn't bitter he wasn't negative he accepted it you know and

it was just that was it he said it like I said nonchalantly he wasn't mad at me he was just let me know like you know it is what it is bro like we'll get through this shit right and then that happened to me one time and you feel like such an asshole right like I'm so sorry I'm such a bitch I'm so pampered and spoiled I'm complaining feel like a pussy but you're just like fuck if this dude can get up every day put his feet on the floor and be the same fucking dude that he is right now like who the fuck am I to complain about you have no excuse right yeah I did that when I was in

county jail, this OG, who actually went to my high school, but he graduated like 15 years before I did. And I was like, you know, fuck, I'm down bad. You know what I mean? I'm looking at like five to seven. The feds might pick the case up. He's like, dude, I've been fighting a death penalty case in here for three years. I was like, oh, she, here's my fucking dessert, bro. Right. No, fuck. You're like, damn, that's going to get me killed if I, if I complain to the wrong motherfucker, you know, right? That's a safety thing, too. Like, you don't. Don't ever talk about your time. Try not to unless you really know somebody like that.

You know what I mean? No, when you get close with people, it's a different thing. But just to be out there like that because you just never know who you're talking to. Yeah, they want to go home too. Right. So when you got shot out of Victorville, you went where? I went to Herlong. So I flew up to Northern California.

It's right outside of Reno. They bused me in there. I won't lie to you. I didn't believe them when they said I was leaving because, you know, usually fucking white boys don't leave the pen. It's hard for us to get out. Why is that? Can you explain why that is? Because we catch shots.

Like, we're getting write-ups all the time. But, you know, when COVID happened, they didn't want to come into ourselves. We were only getting out four cells at a time. They weren't bringing buses. Nobody was coming out of the shoe. So there was no action. You weren't putting in work. they weren't coming into your cell to search

it was pretty crazy you know everybody's just in their partying like just trying to ease the pain we're just drinking you know what I mean just fucking anything we can do just like we were on the streets right no it was just inside drinking

what the fuck you know we're just fishing fucking liquor down the tear it was it was crazy people were lighting their cells on fire just like a cry for help you know mental health issues It was just ramp it. But because of that, I almost didn't make it out, though.

You know, I feel blessed that I did. But when COVID was going on, they weren't giving us showers. They weren't giving us phone calls. You know, we had to do something. But I knew I was getting out because my case manager had come like, hey, when they start opening travel up again, you're leaving. You know, your last shot finally fell off. You turn 36. your points finally drop, you're going to go to an FCI.

Well, we had a buck on them, you know, and it was a fucked up thing because, you know, you don't ever want to show weakness, you know. I'm getting ready to leave. They're not giving us the showers. All my guys are, you know, first we're denying trays. Like, fuck that. That's not working. They don't care if we starve in here.

Like, we want our phone calls. We want our showers, whatever. So like, fuck it. I guess we're going to board up on them. You know, you board up on them. Usually you get a shot for group demonstration. They come in. They just start kicking ass.

They pick a few random cells. They just go in there and start kicking ass. And hope everybody in the unit loses heart. Because when you board up, it's a security thing. They ought to walk around and count. But if you put something over your window, they can't see in there. They don't know what the fuck is going on. So everybody in the unit's boarded up.

I'm like, well, there goes my transfer. you know, because you can't be the only one not boarding up. Right. You know, if the union board's up and you don't, fuck it's your ass when those doors open. So, you know, I'm just thinking, well, there it goes. You know, there goes the FCI again. Finally, they come through, they call some of us out.

What can we do to, like, mitigate the situation? Let's come to terms. We go through that a couple times. And every time I'm just like, fuck, like, I'm not going to make it. I'm not going to make it out of here. And for whatever reason, they had some type of empathy. You know, I don't know what it was.

They didn't know what to do, you know. Obviously, the world didn't know what to do when COVID happened. So the prison system really had no fucking clue. And it was no different than like governors of states running their states differently from COVID. It was all like political bullshit. And whatever the warden leaned, you know, Republican or Democrat. He was following that line. So like a lot of the lot wardens were a lot looser.

You know, ours was fucking lock them down. Right. Which was California. Right. Yeah. Everything was locked down. Right. Very extreme. Right. So anyways, I navigate that without getting a shot. And they put they they they open up the doors. They say, hey, pack your shit up. You're going over to a unit over here with a bunch of dudes that are getting ready to leave to. So, you know, I'm fucking happy. Like, fuck, I'm out of here. I'm going to a fucking FCI thinking in my head, right? But at the same time, thinking, no, I'm not. You know, a lot of the times, like, because I had a little bit of influence when I left,

if you have some type of influence, a lot of times they'll shit people for political influence. They'll say, we don't want you here anymore. We're going to send you to another USP. So I didn't really believe it, but I wanted to believe it. And they put me in this unit, and then I get over there, and then I figure out, okay, well, now I'm over here with all these dudes waiting to leave, and I'm looking up, and it's all a bunch of dudes that checked in

or got smashed off the yard. Well, you got me in this unit now, and if you let me out with one of these dudes, I have to take off on it. It's mandatory, because if I'm around this, dude and I don't, then I'm no good. So you guys are fucking with my life. And luckily, I skate through that

because they keep everybody separated. Everybody on this side's good. Everybody on that side's bad. They keep us separated, you know. It's just a lot of stress to deal with. But I finally get on a plane. They fly me up there. Atwater's another USP up there.

So I'm thinking, fuck, they're going to take me to Atwater. They take the outwater bus out of there. I'm like, not Outwater. water and then they put me on the Hurlong bus and I'm like fuck you know I think I made it and still until I get to that gate I'm like these motherfuckers are playing a sick joke on me. I know it and I finally get off the bus at Hurlong and I'm in a fcii I'm in a medium and it's a world of difference you know a lot of people in the camp don't want to go to the low you know the low doesn't want to go to the fcii if I doesn't want to go to the pen but the fcii and the USP difference is a fucking world of difference right right right So it's almost like they're two prison systems

Like the relief of leaving a USP is almost like you're being freed No for sure even though you're still incarcerated For sure yeah like no you want to fucking jump for joy Yeah it's a million pounds of stress lift it off your chest You're just like holy fuck you're like I don't have to have a knife everywhere Right it's just a whole different fucking world you know A lot of drugs in FCI yeah it's just I mean I think it gets looser as you go lower

into custody. You know, the pen is so fucking tight. Like, you know, it's concrete walls and shit. You don't ever see like, you know, in the FCI that's fencing, visiting is more lads. Like, you know, cops are loose. It's just a whole different world.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, and then that's how you finished out. And that brings us to now 2024. Right. And then you just got out of a halfway house. You honored us with your presence after only a few months, which is cool.

Yeah. I appreciate the stop on your podcast tour. What's your tail like? How long do you have? I got three years. They just changed a law that said that you can get off in a year. So I'm hoping, you know, I've never had like a dirty UA. That's usually what they're worried about is people that relapse, you know,

addictions rampant. So I'm hoping that, you know, mind my P's and Q's, you know, no dirty UA's, whatever I can get off in a year. Yeah. That's the hopes. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Well, I'm sorry about all the time you had to do. Yeah. Well, you know, you semi-deserved it. You were out there, you know, getting a lot of money. Right. But, damn, that it really is, it was not a smooth way to go to prison. No. You know what I mean?

Some people, like, it blew me away, like some stories. Guys would pop up in the penitentiary. Like, yeah, I took the bus. I took the train here. Like, you know how guys. bail out and then they they go they plead guilty surrender yeah and then they just go self-surrender I'm like that must be so nice I got shot I got the black box and the gray goose and the fucking guy getting his his brain bust on the chain next to me you know I mean like yeah so I get that story I really

I empathized with no I think at the end of the day we go through a lot of things that build the the character that we have. You know, people ask if I have regrets. It's hard to sit here and say, I live life without regrets. You know, but you also have to take the good with those, you know, those experiences build you up. When I first went in, I wasn't going to change. I already had a set in my mind.

The minute I hit those streets, I'm off and running. As painful as that extra 12 years was, I needed that because that shifted my perception. It gave me a different level of gratitude, a different level of hunger, discipline. Was it overkill? Maybe a little bit. But, you know, who's to say where I would have been if it wasn't that, you know? Sure. Sure.

Have you seen any of those guys or do you keep out any of the dudes that turned on you, rat it on you? Do they know your home? So they definitely know I'm home. It's a crazy thing for me because I can't wrap my mind around. why some of these dudes would reach out. Like, yeah, you moved on with your life. I lived in that hell every day. So I woke up thinking about that.

I don't know why you would think that I want to associate with somebody who did that to me. If you could feel how I felt, you wouldn't even reach out to me. But some of those people have definitely reached out to me on social media. I got nothing to say.

You know what I mean? It just doesn't make it. sense let it lie dude don't give them the satisfaction let them they want you to like say oh man I forgive you and even if you do forgive them which I think you should but that's for you don't give them the satisfaction let them live with that for the rest of their lives that's what I say why do you think I should forgive them because forgiveness is for you it's letting it's letting go of the past it's really not and again you could just internally forgive right it's like a bitch that cheated on you you don't have to like you know call and say

I forgive you. You could still let her live in the pain of it, of the guilt of it. But you, that's how you move on for yourself. So it's a selfish thing. And it's a good thing. I think I earn the right to be selfish. For sure. You know what I mean?

Yeah, bro. I think I need to hold on to that. For sure. I did a lot for other people. I think it's about me. You know, it's about, you know, maybe men need some relationships and getting my life back. So I think I deserve the right to be selfish in this aspect for sure. Well, then do you, whenever you think the time is right or you just hold on to it.

That's okay. No, I'm just curious because a lot of people have said that, you know, and I think about it. But like you said, I don't want to give them that. Like, I'm not going to make you feel better. Yeah, you know, don't massage their guilt. Don't give them any quarter. You know what I mean? Don't reach out.

Don't, don't, you know, like they're rats. And you, it's like, that's what you will be. So just let them be that. Right. They have to live with that. Right. You know, you're the one that ultimately won. Right.

So then don't give them a victory. Right. This is my opinion. No, like, I definitely like that. I like that approach. You know, it's just, it still blows me away. But yeah, it's about me. It's about my personal growth.

And, you know, I might hold on to it for a little while longer. Sure. Why not? At the end of the day, I know I got to let go eventually. I think that'll come with finding my groove in life and kind of figuring out who I am, where do I want to go, and how do I want to do this? Yeah. Well, where can people find, can people get your merch?

Yeah, so. Look at that hat, that's CCE. CCE. That was my indictment. So I got a hat brand, hoodie, shirts. It's on my social media pages, Aaron Pila and Pilaroni on TikTok. That's P-E-I-L-A is my last name. and then Roney, R-O-N-I.

Yeah, we'll put all the description, all the links in the description of the episode. But yeah, you're doing good on TikTok. Yeah, I'm doing all right. Yeah. I really take pride in it only because there's a lot of prison content creators that make content for like the curious. I try to speak for people who have been through the fire like me.

And I get a lot of DMs from dudes in prison who are still in there, doing life sentences, doing all the shit. I'll probably see this episode. That's the majority of my fans. For real. No, that's badass. That's badass. It seems like it.

It's just cool because sometimes I'll be like, why the fuck are you on TikTok posting about prison? And then I get messages like that. Like, hey, bro, we appreciate you speaking about the realities that we go through. You know, because that's real to us. And you give us a voice. So I take pride in that. You know, I definitely want those dudes who feel like they're lost and forgotten

and don't have a voice to feel like. they have somebody speaking for them. Yeah. Good. Good. Well, boys, if you're listening in Victorville, my heart goes out to you. You know what I mean? I really, really does, you know, whatever you did.

So, Aaron, thank you so much, buddy. This was like an unexpected treat. I didn't know what I was getting into. I didn't know your content. But, you know, you got at me and I took a chance. And this really worked out. This was a lot of fun. I hope so.

I appreciate you having me. All right, you guys, Aaron Pila, go check out his TikTok. Go buy. That merch is fire. I'm going to go buy a hat and support hats, shirts, hoodies. All of those links will be in the description. We'll see you next time. Take care.

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