The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Surviving America's Most VIOLENT Prison- Skinhead Gang Leader Reveals Life In MAXIMUM Security

Episode Date: April 6, 2024

Garet McLendon shares his story of going from addiction and prison gangs to sobriety and recovery. Step into Summer fun activities with Vessi. Visit vessi.com/connect for an automatic 15% off your first purchase at checkout! Garet grew up in Palmdale CA. At a young age he was exposed to the drugs that were rampant in his community. He quickly found himself not only addicted to drugs, but selling them to support his habit. This life led him to spending time in and out of some of America's most dangerous prisons. While in prison he joined gangs and even became a shot caller. Garet is here to share his stories of not just surviving maximum security prison, but his path to sobriety and recovery and how he's helping others get off drugs and avoid the mistakes and lifestyle choices he made as a young man. Go Support Garet and contact him if you need help with addiction recovery! IG: https://www.instagram.com/garetmclendon/ Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6mc4qAxpztC6D20wzeS91C Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The scariest things is when a riot would kick off. And I put together a meeting or something like that with some heads. And I would sit there with these guys. And I let them know that one of us might not make it out alive right now. You know? Because a riot's going to happen. And you got to fight until they say stop. My guest today is a homeboy who goes by Garrett.

Garrett grew up in meth-infested Palmdale, California. You could say he grew up in meth culture. By 13, he was young. using it and selling it. By the time he was 16 or 17 years old, he had learned how to cook it. By 19, he was a kingpin, moving pounds and pounds and pounds of it at a time. And by 20, he was fully addicted and going in and out of prison for the next 15 years. In prison is where he found respect. He was on level three and four yards in California state prisons. That is the hardest, most violent place to do time. And he was a shock caller. Time on time. Time and time.

again. Every time he went in to do a stretch, he ran the Peckerwood gangs in there. And he has stories, quite honestly, that gave me chills as I was talking to him. It's unbelievable. But he eventually got out, got off a dope, turned his life around. And now he's been sober for over a decade. He runs a podcast. He runs his own business. He runs a rehab center. He is a success story against all odds. Go over to the Patreon as well if you want to hear more details. about his time in recovery, and of course, prison, patreon.com slash the Connect show. Without further ado, I give you Garrett right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell.

I bring their whole life down and I leave them, right? Like they sell, they use. I watch them. I feed them and feed them and feed them. And I run their house from the ground and I get a raided and I turn into a trap house. And I drain your banquet house. I drive your cars. I do all this stuff, right?

Then I just leave you. I'll be on to the next one, right? By that time, it'd be pretty close to me, you know that your house is getting raided, and I have to go find me another house to be at. That's when I see lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think. I just hit it.

I was driving like my life depended on. Then I parked the car, popped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shank. It's like six inches. And he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this.

He was the reason I made it out of that place alive. Hell yeah. Garrett, thanks for being here, man. Thank you, man. Thank you. You look like every guy that tried to fight me on the yard. I immediately saw you and it just brought me back to fucking, you know, D block. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what happens. I guess I have that. I was really, wasn't too much. It would be the guys that were with me, that be the ones that would fight you.

I'd just be the one to point, you know. Yeah. So you were running things by the end? By the end. Yeah, usually maybe because my height or my weight and all that stuff that I usually land in places and immediately would just. be a keyholder or something. So would you, if you hit a yard, you would obviously get recruited right away or did you already know people? Like, how does it work? For me, I didn't know, I guess after you, I guess doing what you do on the streets, you sort of get a name for yourself.

And then so once you hit in the yards and stuff like that, you get well known. And then so it was just a matter of once I would hit, I would always know somebody. And immediately, I, whether I want to. to or not would be like a right hand or a shot color or whatever there was you know that yeah you just level right up they just hand it to me right now and then you get new shoes right away you just have uh the best of the best yeah new shoes new sheets like on you know on laundry day your baskets coming with all fresh stuff you know that's really big in there too a fresh white t-shirt fresh white socks every day you know you you ain't one off one-on-one-off and uh and uh and the shoes and so like there was a a homeboy or something

like that in our R and R and R like I would immediately go into an intake and I would always get get taken care of 100% did you like going to prison um it was like a lifelong thing for me so going to prison was like the way I grew up and and everybody I hung out with even the guys and all that stuff like going to prison was like I was going to be I was just waiting for that part of my resume to get filled and uh I remember I remember being, you know, 14, 15 years old at like some older homeboys houses. And I be pushing a broom, like sweeping the driveway. And they tell me like things like, you know, you should get used to that. And I didn't know why.

Because when you're in prison and you get to like a tier and a four yard or a three yard and you're running those tiers, what you're doing is you're pushing a broom around the same way I was on the, you know, at that time. And so it took a long time for me to relate to all that stuff. Wow. It's completely normal where you're from. Completely normal, yeah. So tell us where you're from. I'm from Annalope Valley, Palmdale, Lancaster area.

And what is that like? That's you're from Southern California, but you're from the other southern California. On the other side of the hill. Like if you come to Los Angeles or something like that and you mention Analype Valley, people don't know where that's at. But yeah, it's the desert, open areas, lots of the meth, like meth capital of the world back in the day, it seemed like. But I don't know. It might not be that now. And just a lot of dry.

It was just a lot of gangs, a lot of, you know. But the thing is, is I don't know if it was any different than anywhere else. I just, that's the only place I know because that was the only place I ever been. I never went outside. I never went past the 14 freeway. I wasn't coming into the valley or I wasn't going to Bakersfield. I wasn't going to North Cow or Southern Cow. I wasn't going to the beaches.

I was staying in this, in this little area, just doing what we do, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And your household was rough. Very rough. I grew up. I grew up with, I'm a mama's boy at heart.

I grew up with my mom, you know, and living in, and, and that's a lot of how I met these guys that, you know, that, that,

that were convicts and that, and that, and that, and that, and they're, you know, the way they live their life. And I,

I sort of, you don't realize it, but being a project of your environment, my mom had me with these guys. And then I was just learning, like, but like, getting this thing in my resume for,

for, you know, when I, it was just like a matter of when I was going to get busted. Was your mom on drugs? Yeah, she was. She was on meth? Yes. Yes, she was. And did you know it was methamphetamine? Like, even back when you were 12 years old, you're taking.

Yeah. I knew. When I was 12 years old, 13 years old, and I was, I mean, from a very young, I always knew what it was because my mom would be really methed up, you know, and she gave me her stuff, you know? She would give you her adult. She'd be like, hey, hold this for me because, you know, she didn't want to lose it. it you know and then like my friends would come over to my house you know we had a little junior high sleep over and stuff and i i pull out some bumps on like uh you know like the plates you get like from

from throwing darts at the fairgrounds the little mirrors you know and have like some mickey mouse slogan on it or something you know and then i i pulled out be my mom would have like lines laid out and i pulled out with my friends and uh i'd be like we should you know you guys want to do a bump you know and we all would do bumps and then go ride our motorcycles or something you know in junior high school in junior high school like like like most kids normally kids would be like whatever. Let's go to Garrett's house. Let's go to Garrett's house.

We can do whatever we want over at Garrett's house. I grew up, but I grew up on the outskirts of Antel of Valley at this time, you know. And sort of when this was like, it was fun, like we, we get drunk and we smoke weed and we sort of hang out like as like a group of kids, you know, would. And then we sort of get older and like, and that the drugs was present in my household, even though it wasn't in theirs. And then a lot of times, I think, too, is like I had like a big resentment or something like that against people who did the drugs because I seen what was doing to like my family.

And so I really didn't like it. You know, and then and then as the time got over, you know, like my mom's connection was like became my father figure. And like his son went to jail. And then I stayed with, and I stayed with him doing, I just followed him around. Like, because I guess when a boy gets to a certain age, you know, he starts looking for that male to hang out with. And my mom, you know, I'm not no tiny.

I'm a big kid. You know, my mom was probably like, we just wanted to push me off on somebody that I would listen to. And, and he never showed me drugs, but he was a drug dealer and he showed me any, and I,

and I was watched. It was never, I just watch him on what he did and what he was doing. And, I know, and then so when he off me, I remember coming back from Los Angeles with him, Los Angeles with him,

probably going to do him to pick up. And, and, and, and, and it's comfortable. He always had the nicest, and niceest,

and to me, that was attractive because I didn't have none of that stuff. Like, he had motorcycles, cars, pool tables in the house, you know, swimming pools, all this stuff that was just like so attractive, you know, and, um, and, um, he's actually the one that when I was pushing the broom would always tell me, you know, you know, that, where that's going to go, you know, and, um,

he said expect prison. Yeah, he, without saying that, you know. Yeah. Did he end up going to prison? Yeah, he was a, he was a convict, yeah. And he, he ended up going to prison for selling ice. Uh, for selling. Absolutely. Yeah. And this is white dope. This was, I mean, Back then it wasn't even crystal meth. This is back when it was P2B and old biker dope and P2P and it was, it wasn't even crystal meth. It was that old, it was a speed. It was back when it was speed, you know, just speed. This is when the white guys were cooking it up and trailers and bathsers.

Correct. Yeah. Before the Mexicans took over. Before the Mexicans took over, yeah. So he was, what was the progression of like meth addiction when it was biker dope? like they go from snorting lines to smoking it or what was it? It was, I always, when it was at days of the speed, it was, it was just only, I was snorting it and snorting it. And it wasn't until I started selling it that I saw people with the light bulbs and all that stuff and them using it.

And so it was just like a vial or a bullet, you know, and you know, and I was selling bullets. selling like sniffs at school and high school, you know, just selling a bullet five bucks to ten bucks a pop, you know, and, and I leave every two periods. I go to my house, I feel it, and I come back, you know, and. And there was enough kids, normal, normal kids, you know, regular kids buying bullets. By buying, just buying a bump. A bump off the bullet, you know. Right. Like, you see people with the spoons for Coke and then you have your bullet for speed. Because where I grew up like, if you were in the high school trying to sell speed people would be like what who the fuck is this guy they would like not they would kick you out of the friend group they would think that was weird that was like

what i did with bags of weed you were doing that with meth i did it i started off with bags of weed uh and then and then started in with the meth too at the same time so there was like a certain amount of kids that did the meth and then you have a group of kids that did the weed you know and you just have these different groups and i i sort of this like was a very neutral based person in all these little, whether you're in the stoner crowd or you're in the jock crowd or whatever it is. And I think a lot of that, I knew so many different people in high school at this time. I wasn't in high school long, but I just went to so many different schools growing up, you know, because my mom, we're always moving around house to house, you know, and all this stuff that

really, like, made me meet a lot of kids throughout that time. So at the time I got to high school, you know it was just um it was like there was a couple reasons it's like i knew a lot of people and then the second i found a way for me to not be such a you know like i i felt like a really poor and different you know like i i i didn't have like new shoes uh walking in i didn't have like i wasn't walking in my first day of school with like the new pants and a new new shirt and all this stuff you know and uh and and it and it and it and it's not a big deal but maybe for a kid it is And so I found ways of supporting this habit or actually my first thing was as I did it for a way of life to bring money to the table and to be able to get these things that I needed. So I started selling weed and I started selling, you know, I fill that bullet up, you know, and I sell these snorts and then, you know.

Was your mom's plug supplying you? Yes, 100%. And when we talk about meth dealing, right, in these white. suburban or rural communities, it's always hand in hand with using an addiction. I've never met not one white dope dealer that didn't also use. Is that the same for you? Yeah. As much as you try to create it and make it like a business, you know, whether you're and that's the supply and demand of just having it and and you know, making a lot of money like you start doing it. And I think as time progresses, the need to use the drugs comes more.

So you end up using more just probably. Because I mean, there's times when I, you know, you cook, you know, one, two, five pounds of it, you know. And like literally and literally and use and just and be like, all right, I need this for myself, you know. This is for me. Instead of like distributing and making this money, like a lot of money to be on it. You know, here's $30,000 to $30,000. But here I am. I'm like, I need this.

This one right here is mine. Would you cook up five pounds of dope? I have at times, yeah, five pounds at a time. Well, you knew how to cook. I got into cooking, too, as well, yeah. Where would you cook? In the garage, RVs, broken down abandoned houses in the middle of the desert. It all depends on the method of it.

You know, I blew out some garages. I would just do it out my house, 100%. I'm right in the bedroom. Right. Yeah, and then there's a couple times. times in the houses I blew the garage out. Didn't care, you know? Yeah, I remember that back in the 90s of the 2000s when it was biker dope.

Because there's a lot of that in Portland where I'm from. You'd always hear about houses burning down. Meth houses just going up in flames. Yeah, well, for me, it was like the speed. I'm in high school here. I am doing this speed. I'm selling these bullets and all this stuff. And I drop out of high school.

And I continue to go to this life on the streets of selling drugs and doing what we, you know, and doing what a, you know, and I don't know if I was addicted to the streets or the drugs or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, I, I stayed out there long enough. And I, I, I, I, I saw that transition and go from speed to methamphetamine. And then I got with these guys that, you know, that were, you know, and so, and then I met a guy that was a, a white gang member that, um, that, um, that I just latched on to, you know, and we all just, you know, and I, I sort of was just in his back pocket. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. him doing whatever, you know, like I beat somebody up for them or collect for them. I, I, you know, just, you know, and then you sort of get a name for yourself of, of that, you know, that's so-and-so's, you know, right hand or whatever man and like, you know, the people that belong in that crew. And, and so, who are the white gangs out in Antelope Valley? It was like Palmdale, Pecklewoods, Annette Valley, Pecklewoods, a lot of, just Pecklewoods. But there's, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of comrades and skinheads out there, you know, just, I'm sure that every,

Every area, whether in San Fernando Valley or North Cow or Bakersfield, always have that same group of gangs of the, you know, the homies or the blacks, you know, and then the whites of, you got, you know, just the Aryan Brotherhood. You got the Peckarwood. You got and you got the, you know, the comrades or the P-9s and all those two as well. And it's almost a pipeline. It goes from like the drugs to the streets to prison. and right and it's just there because it's just a given that because you're living so reckless yeah there's not

even uh careless there's not even like a pretense of like legal money in that kind of like white meth underworld um i think that it almost seems like you're not even trying to stay out well i think a lot of it that we think about that money but um that's not how you get it in the bigger leagues of things that you're in more of a business that you're in the money part of it, you know, and that's the, the bigger cooking. Like five pounds isn't nothing or one to two, three, four, five pounds isn't nothing, you know. And, um, and, um, and, but when you're going into like meeting bigger guys that have like, you know, 20 to 50 or something like that, then it's way bigger, you know. Did you get to that level? I never got to that level personally, but like I, I was connected

with the people that were, you know, and I think a lot of it running with all those people was just, um, it was like doing all that stuff we do is with the selling and the streets is like you sort of just it's like all of a sudden becomes your turn to be at bat you know just like you went to jail and it was just all of a sudden like uh this guy's gone and but you've been hanging out with this guy and you sort of just take over what he's doing you know and then and then that also too goes with like the clientele yeah and people because like you know you you you know you're you're right hand to somebody you're you're making deliveries and you're picking up and you're and then and then that also too goes with like the clientele yeah and picking up and then all of a sudden, like, that's your route.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local total wine and more to grab a great bottle to share. With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy. If you're not sure what to pick, their friendly guides can help. Find what you love and love what you find only at totally.

Total Wine and More. Shop total wine and more in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. B-21. Yeah, so is that what happened? Did your plug get popped? A plug of mine got, he didn't get popped.

What happened is that we were messing around with guns one night and he blew his head off and the house. And he put a shotgun down his pants and pulled it up and his head was off. and and and and just like that it was a game changer for lots for lots of people you know and well first of all what did that do to you um psychologically i was psychologically i was so messed up that i don't know if it did like i i i was numb like yeah i lost this i lost this great friend and uh homeboy and like partner of mine you know that i that i've been running with since i was you know, 14,

13, since I was in high school, now I'm like 21, 22, and maybe, you know, somewhere in that age. And,

and, all of a sudden, like, you, I find out he's gone. I just left in that morning, I find out,

I, like, between the time I left and that morning, I find out that he, that, you know, he blew his head off.

I mean, I was in the room with him as he was playing with a gun. And, and I left because I was getting uncomfortable. And, um,

boom just like that you know leave one in the chamber wow holy shit and so now everybody's plug is dead yeah so did you did you take over i did you find his connect how do they well i didn't find his connect and nothing like that i i just sort of um um i found clientele and i went there on my own and i found you know i like a lot of people knew that i was you know you're connected with this guy but with a guy that's so connected as you know you you just it's a supply and demand and I go out there and I find out and I I get connected with these people that are making it and doing that thing I follow on their footsteps a little bit trying to be on the hands-on side of a manufacturing methamphetamine and because I think a lot of it too is like the supply and demand and like after a while doing like

you being a middleman of all of it you want to be like the main connection out there and so what happened for me is I was tired of like there was like I had you it was never just one connection because one connection might not have it and I don't I don't want to be without so like I have one to five of uh of guys that just you know you know if I didn't have it you had it whatever and we went to this whole little cycle you know and um and I think that um like you don't even know what's your time to like your time are up to the plate or anything like that you know and it was just a matter of uh like I ran into a guy and he had glassware. and we,

like, damn, with that, then we just need this. And we had this trailer. And, you know, wow. How much did you cook? How much were able to cook? Like, I don't know, in a given night.

I'm going to tell you the first couple times. Five pounds of the tops. I was the tops I was ever able to manage. How long does that take you to cook? Sometimes it'd take a week. Sometimes it would take. At first, because laws changed with the glass way

and also what changes the way of cooking and the materials that we needed to get cooking. And so like Fedrin became, it was getting harder and harder to get. Like we used to be able to get the suit of fret, the pseudo fed from the stores. And you get like an entourage of people to go in and they be coming in with trash bags

and they sit in your garage and they be breaking up pills with the blenders. And, you know, and then that, like that sort of like, that sort of went away. And then I found out that I can get a pseudo fed from,

from horse blocks at, you know, at feed stores. And like you put it and then you are and then I am here with a whole bunch of kitty pools with with salt blocks in them, you know, and then they started and then they then they started taking records of like who's buying all this like who's buying these salt blocks because they, you know, they're not dummies. They're like, you know, a feed store and I'm average, I'm going in there all, you know, or going in a little tattoo guys game banged out, you know, like, you know, flying colors. Like, hey, I need 20 salt blocks for our horses.

Yeah. You guys don't ride. Not exactly subtle. Yeah. And let me get this tooth pick, you know, or something, you know. And I think it was on the supply and demand and then the glassware. So how does it work? You put the salt blocks in the kitty pools. You put it in the kitty pools with diesel fuel.

It separates the fedron, you know, and it sort of separates, like it dissolves and separates. And you take it off, you know, you take the fedron off the bottom and then you clean it, you know. And that was way for a while, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, and that was way for a while. like there's a dope going out there and it'd be like almost like a fuely taste to it, you know, like a diesel fuel, you know? And that's because you're just separating, you're taking it. But there's a couple times what I messed up and I got the salt instead of the ephedron. And then I and I cook it and I messed everything up because there it is.

It's salty. Right. You know? So would there be a dope that you couldn't sell? Yeah, that would be. So I go to this whole process of making. a half a pound or a pound or something like that. And it'd be all salt.

And then I'd be trying to find ways up how to backtrack. I'd be going to the guys I know. Like, hey, how do I, is there a method I could backtrack or, you know, or I use somebody else as a phedrin or something like this. And yeah, when it works, and so you just have to start over. The same thing happens, like in the garage. And, like, you know, I have a, you know, 7 to 14 a flask on a rocker and a burner. and hoses and kitty ligger and all this stuff lined up

and then all of a sudden it blows and it's just like you just do your best to take up the pieces. We do it all and start again. Yeah, it's such a labor-intensive process. You can see why when the Mexicans figured out how to make crystal meth, it just took everything over.

Yeah, 100%. Because they could just make so much of it and it was packaged and ready to go. Yeah. Did that, did you ever get into that? Or were you already imprisoned by then? Well, the thing is Is that I got busted

Like the manufacturing was And I did it for long as I could But then by the time I got out of prison My second or third time The streets changed Because the people who I was Doing that stuff with You know

They're not They're in prison Or you know Or you know The cycles of someone on the streets And someone not You know It was different

So and then I come out there And a lot of the Mexicans Had it sewed up You know And we just be going And then we just go in a business together or we want a war together you know like then the tax laws that you have in prison and all that stuff or the or the same tax laws you're on the street you know dealing with you know

what are those tax laws just uh the other 10 percent or a lot of it's like territory and and uh you know of like who you're selling to what neighborhoods you're in like you know like if if you're if you're from the valley and you're in animal valley like you know like this is you know and you're selling like i figure that's money out of my pocket so you know we're going to either come to an agreement to where you're paying me some money to be in my area or i'm going to try to eliminate your house so you're not selling there no more so you would tax mexican dealers like that yeah we just go around and um and um push our weight into that you know we try to because the thing is is a dominated like and if a bunch of white guys are dominant and selling drugs that we don't want nobody in our

in our area doing that stuff and so a lot of times what happens is that you know the the their weaker ones get wedged out and the strong way we make an alliance and uh and of course doing drugs it never worked out and sooner or later it'd be someone owes somebody and it and it's earned up and it end up all bad you know yeah did anybody end up getting killed on the streets um absolutely absolutely people cars got riddled and um absolutely yeah yeah people got did yeah absolutely um when's the first time that you did a bid how old were you when you first put I went to prison at 19. What was that over?

20 years old on a four yard in Tatchby. I got out in 22. What was that beef? What did you first fall for? My first one was nothing, was nothing big. It was, it was just like a, it was just like, I beat up my mom's boyfriend. I went to the house. My mom was, you know, like, she was heavily in the drugs and everything was too.

And I went there and I showed up there one. her time she has this black eye and i um i i uh assault her up assault her boyfriend pretty bad and i take his shoes make him walk down the street type thing and um he was abusing her he hit her yeah he hit her you know and uh i don't like that i don't like i don't like men hitting women at all in any any type of way this is a lot of the trauma that you grow up with and now that i'm older i don't i don't put up with it and uh the next day i know is that um you know i get an assault and i get um i get um i get busted and I get an assault charge. And, um, must have beat him up pretty bad.

Yeah, I guess so. He was walking. Yeah, he was running down the street, you know, practically naked, you know, so. Yeah, you witnessed some pretty horrible abuse is a younger man too of your mother. I think, I, I grew up with a lot of abuse and, and all that stuff going through with my mom and multiple guys and the abusive relationships. And I, I thank a lot of it, too, of that, of that, whatever trauma came from all that stuff. And I think too, a lot of times that on the streets with drugs and all that stuff

I know, and I was so numb and everything like that from all this that I wasn't too much of like a fighter guy or nothing like that. Like I would. I mean, taxing people and doing all this stuff. But like I was more of a, I was a meaner person when I was in prison, you know, like the drugs and alcohol are away. And I wasn't, I wasn't skilled. to getting busted or hurting somebody to a point and catching a term because now I'm in jail,

you know, and I got into open palm to people instead of using my fist so they can't see the, you know, the knuckles, you know, and knuckle checks and stuff like that. And a lot of times I, of who, of where I stood and what I did inside the prisons that I didn't have, like I always had guys that were just dump and do it for me with an instant, you know? So you had juice. Yeah. So it's almost like you had more respect in prison than you did on the street with your mom and you know you being a junkie and everybody around you being on dope. I isolated. I isolated myself

because even though I started off drug dealing and cooking and all this stuff as a seven to, you know, eight, nine years go by and, and I'm in and out of prison. And is that we talk about it goes from, I went from selling drugs and being a connection to just being that, that connection, that guy. I remember like I, I remember I used to despise, like seeing that I run into people I knew at the store, like when I be getting gas or something like that. And they, and they just be like, they didn't have no money, but they want drugs. And they, and I'd be like, fucking get like, get away. You know, like, get away from me.

Like, this like, totally just trying to, you know, like, block them away, you know, like, you know, whether they're homeless or just like junkie. Like, because I felt like I was, I was different than you because I only snorted, you know, or. Right. Right. And, and here I am, you know, and I'm at the store. And then I, the time comes years later when it, now I'm not so much, I'm not that connection or nothing like no more. I'm somebody inside the prison system, right? But I'm a nobody when I'm out on the streets.

What I am is I'm addicted to drugs, man. I'm addicted to that same drugs I cooked. Now I'm addicted to that drug to where I need it. And you're one of those people that you used to look down on. And I'm one of those people I look down on. Exactly. Hey, guys, summer is almost here. You're probably making your travel plans.

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Level four. That's wild. I went there twice. Huge. More than once. That's wild. At 20 years old, you go to the most intense. Scared to death.

I'm big. Like, I had some guys. Of course, I met all these guys and all the stuff that they were telling me sort of, it makes sense with the, with the broom and like, you know, one up, one down. Like, you know, like, I tell you this, man. I go there, I get to the yard and I, and this guy, I'm maybe my third or fourth day there, fresh on the, on the yard. And I remember this guy after breakfast comes over, you know, and he's like, and he's like,

hey, big wood, you know, wood, right? And I'm on the top bunk, you know, and my, my cellie gets off. His name was Halloween. My celly gets off. And he's like, he's like, not you, the big guy, you know? and I go to the door and he's like, roll your shit up, man, you're moving in with me. He's like, you from the valley?

I'm like, Aniloh Valley and San Fernando ran together, you know? And I'm like, I'm from the valley. Yeah, and he's like, cool, roll your stuff up. You're coming to me. And I'm, and I'm going to tell you this. This is a key moment, man, because like it's all about who you know and who you get with in there. So what it is is I went right inside from that.

I went right inside with the key holder. And then he laced me up in a way that, you know, like, hey, this is, this is, this is how it's going to work here, you know? If I stand up, you stand up. If I fight, you fight, you fight, you know? Like, this is my stuff is your stuff, right? If you want a cigarette, you grab a cigarette, you want a shot of coffee, you grab a shot of coffee, you know, like if I'm on a wait bench, if I'm here on this yard and I'm working out, like you're, you're watching me as I do a set and I'm watching you as you do a set. Like there is no, there is no at the same time. Like, you know, you're, you're, you're

right behind me. You know, like, and, like, and that is just like, I, I, I, I just felt like that, that right there being schooled by this guy, man, just, just, like, felt you like alive. And then everybody, everybody, since, you know, here is with this guy. He's, like, cooler than ice. He's like, an idol, you know, like, and you're just sitting there and you're rolling with them. And I, and so everybody gives you that same respect. Yeah, you're like, right-hand man. Literally. And literally, you're right-hand man. You're living like, you know, hey, you know, and you're you know, you pass this, do this, you know, hey, take this and give it to that guy and all this stuff and the respect that you get, you know, and I'm a small guy hitting in their period too. So like, I'm not like, you know, I'm not, I'm bigger than all those cops that were on steroids, you know, like I'm just as tall and I'm humongous, you know? And, uh, so what were, what were some of the activities that first stretch? Like, what did he have you doing? Right. Um, what he does have me doing? is a lot of times I was just making plugs and, you know,

and wrapping up and delivering, you know, dropping, dropping kites off and moving drugs around. And mainly just getting my feet around. Like, like I, I guess, I don't know why it was. Like, maybe I was just so big that they didn't want me beat, like, checking and beating up, guys. He always be like, they always be like, hey, no, Garrett, like, you're just too damn big. You can't move really subtly. Getting away with shit in prison, I was all about moving subtly. Yeah.

The thing about getting away with stuff in prison is about how you plan it, man. And the thing is, is we go through and whether I stab them or you stabbed them and I pass this name off, I pass this off and I pass that off. And the next thing, it's gone. And that's before the blood even hits the ground, you know? Like you, like the planning that you see and the patience and all that stuff and the way it works. you know and so you and you learned all that from from him 100% and I just and he never really asked me to do nothing other than those basic things like here on this this this is how we're

going to roll in this shower like when I you know like when when I go to shower like you know just that one up one down we're together we're a team I jump you jump I just knowing that somebody has your your back like you that you like you put your fool on trust in this other man you know and he's putting his full trust on you. And you guys become like the best of like the connection that you guys get is beyond any anything I could ever imagine, you know. And here you are with another father figure. Another father.

Like this keeps coming up in your life, this, you know, the father that you, you have a father, but he wasn't in your life as a kid. And you found it first in, you know, your mom's connect on the street. And now with the shock caller in this wild ass level for, prison and you're finding love. Really? Yeah. You're finding that missing void that you haven't had for so long and that's just like that that need of a father of someone to tell me what to do or how to how to be. I remember in the interview that you did, we're not going to plug them because they're competition. But you said like people ask you if you killed anybody in prison and you said, I never stuck around to see. So can you describe, you know, without telling yourself or anything like that? Like, How does like a, how does like a well-planned prison hit go down? And it goes so smoothly that, that by the time they notice, that by the time it gets brought to the tension that the person is usually on the,

on the very blink, like if it's, if it's in a, if it's out in the open and you're just getting, it's the difference. I think there's a difference between getting booked and, and getting stabbed, you know. I think booking somebody maybe just be at checking. You know, you're not trying to kill them, but you're trying to get a message through. And that's also stabbing, but you're not trying to kill them when you stab them.

That's like, so that's more like body shots. Yeah. And to where like somebody that did something like if you got to kind into somebody and then you are and then you have to like get them removed off the yard, you know, in a way that you have to, you have to mark them, you know?

Yeah. Like, and that's like across their face. on their neck, you know, to where on the, to where it's like a dope dead or something like that and you're just hitting them in the, in the kidneys or something, you know, to where like something else goes on and you're running in a cell and you're, and you're almost trying to take their life, you know, and those sitchings and a stabbing, that it would go through and they might not find them to count. And a booking, like you would do it or have it done to where like

it's it's a yard down situation white on white and resume program type thing you know oh so somebody gets a booking that's not as serious it's a it's a serious thing but it's sort of just like checking like a way to check your people you know without because you already the fits you know you already checked them so as much as you can with the with a break off and all this stuff and it's like a discipline you know disciplinary action you know how do you get away with stabbing somebody in a prison where there's cameras everywhere? How do you get away with running into somebody's cell and, you know, stabbing them to death?

I don't know if there was, I mean, I'm, like, where did people get? I don't know if there was cameras in this. Maybe there was, but I don't know, but there's always blind spots. 100% there's always blind spots. And there probably was, but there's always blind spots. And that's usually in the tunnel as you walk into the building. and you would sometimes you could switch cells

like you come in from a child or you come in from yard and you would switch cells and then that person now you have the people like hey I'm a you come to my cell this guy goes there

because he's on an A side you're on C side and you go in there like that and do like sort of a swap and then that way when the time comes and you're down in that blind spot you book them you know

And there's been situations. I mean, sometimes I was able to crack that cell door. And I just have those CEOs or whatever they do. I just tell them, I tell them what was going on. Like, hey, I'm checking, you know, they asked you, are we going to take somebody out in the stretcher or are they going to be all right, you know? And I'd be like, they'll be all right. You know, no stretcher, you know. And that was enough.

They said, okay, cool, go handle your business. And they'd be like, and they let you handle your business. You get a relationship with these CEOs. They don't, you know, you just, hey, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, they knew, like, they know the work that, you know, on our end that we have to do. And they sort of wanted to go smoothly as possible to where there's less paperwork or work for them. So, you know, they're like, you're like, hey, I need a, I need a, I need to sell door cracked, you know, at one, you know, and, um, and they always feel the vibe too, because the energy,

you can always feel like the energy inside the whole thing is this off. People are just waiting for like this thing to crack, but they don't know what it's going to, they don't know what it's going to crack, you know, or the same thing with like a riot or something too. Like it's like everybody's just, it's like the whole tiers. Like the whole thing is on edge, you know, and the energy is this all off.

And yeah, and I was on, I know I've been on some three and four yards. I was on there for a minute. And I had these relationships too to where I was just like, I cracked it, you know, I'm going to go. I need just, you know. How often, what was the wildest yard, the wildest level four you were on? Attachby, 100%. Attachby was the wildest.

Did you see anybody get killed? I did. I did. I had multiple times I'd seen people get, you know, stabbed and shot on the yard get shot. By the guards? By the guards. Yeah. Like during a stabbing or a riot or something?

A fight would break off in the child hall. And the guys would keep on going at it and the cop would just come out. you just shoot them right there in the spot you know and you'd be on your you be on the ground and and you just see the blood flowing through or uh you'd be on the on the yard and um whether it was our people or another race or something like that or you know go off that the scariest things is uh when a riot would kick off and um and uh like some of them i knew about but some of them i didn't like when it jump to jump and it be um you know that's what like that what dumper taught me about you know back to back and and and all that stuff going down and uh what was that mean and it just means like

you fight back to back yeah yeah we're back to back yeah we're fighting to where nobody can come up behind me and stab me or or book me you know and um and uh i definitely seen and it in a mist like something like that would happen like you usually create that diversion of like something like that would happen, a fight would break out. And the whole time, why everybody's focusing your attention on here, and zero on the other side and you're stabbing this guy. And by the time it all gets picked up,

they don't even know what happened. It's just, you got this guy over here in the right field bleeding to death. Did you, you said you thought that you might have died? You were prepared to die at some of those riots. I absolutely was prepared. And I would tell why, and I would have a, I put a kite or I put together a meeting or something like that with some heads and I would sit there with these guys and I let them know that sometimes that there would be times that one of us might not make it out alive right now.

You know? Because a riot's going to happen and you got to fight until until they say stop, you know? And then when you go down, the yard goes down and you're right back up and the yard goes down, you're right back up. until we're physically, you know, you know, cuff and feet and hands and you're on the ground. And, yeah. So you can't stop once the tear gas comes.

You have to get up again. When the tear gas comes, like that, it stops. But yeah, usually when, if they're spraying you two and you're going down, you're back up until you can't. Right. Until you can't. How many people, when a whole yard gets down,

it's hundreds of people. How many people have weapons and how many people are just going with fists. I would say 90% I would say 50 to 80% of people have weapons on them

at all times. At all times. Even when they're on the yard staffed on a yard on them and even more so when they know that something's going to happen you know and but you know

and that's what they say never get caught slipping you know because you never know when you're going to need it. Yeah, better to get caught with than without. Yeah. What if you just got caught

with a piece, but you weren't doing anything. You were just on the yard and some reason you got searched. Is that just a whole shot? It'd be a whole shot. You know, I guess you might be able to get it thrown away because like, hey, it depends on where they find it. I mean, they found it in your mattress and that's a mattress you sleep. And there's not a way you can really defend yourself on that one.

You get a shoe term or a whole term depending on what happens. And like for some people, that's what we wanted. And like we wanted to earn our keep in our ways. So like we wanted to have that piece and we wanted to use it. And we wanted to earn whatever came, you know, like you earn your letters or you're in a suzazi or, you know, whatever you earn from doing that, putting that work in. Did the woods have swazis? Yeah. Yeah.

The peckerwoods have swazas. Yeah. Warbirds, warbirds and swastikas. Yeah. On your midsection? Because I don't see any tats on you right now. I got absolutely no tattoos. Even all of your time down.

All my time down. I got not one. I got this tattoo right here that you see. And I got that when I was like 12 years old for my cousin, you know. And I remember going home with that. My mom crying. And she's like, just please, man. She's like, please, Garrett, don't ever get tattoos on your body.

And as much as I wanted them, I wanted those dot suzzi. And I wanted those letters and those numbers and all that stuff on my body all the times. And I, this thing's never worked out the way I wanted to being in a higher level yard and being locked down for. you know, 12 to 18 months at a time or six to 12 to 18 months at a time. And, you know, and then I was never able to get it. And then I was also one, too, that I'm very, like, picky on, you know, earning your stuff like that, you know. And you can earn it inside there and you can earn it on the streets. And then since I was running around with these Peckermood game members,

and stuff like that, that I only wanted them to do it. You know, like if they're going to put ink on me, then it's going to be one of them to pit the ink on me. Because I just, there's value,

to me, there was value in that, you know, and I had a good friend of mine. I ain't going to say no names, but I remember sitting there, and it's years later. And like,

he's been my idol since I was a little kid, and that were like running guns and selling math and cooking and doing all this stuff. And I remember sitting in a bar with them, you know, and we're getting high. and I just love, you know, like, he's like my height. He's like, he's like, he's like a guy.

He's me, man, without the tattoos, you know. But he's just blasted from head to toe. Wow. And I'm ever sitting there with them getting, you know, getting loaded at this time. I know I mean smoke it. I don't even snort it. I'm shooting it. And I was like, dude, I want to be just like you, man.

Like, you know, you know. Does that blow your mind? It blows my mind. It blows my mind because I, really thought that that carried like depth and weight to be like like the idleness of that of having all these you know and uh and he fucking blew up on me he was like and he was like man you don't want this you don't want this you don't want this is this isn't what you want this isn't the life you want to live this isn't like these tattoos ain't cool us sitting in this barn you know

with this money dope and guns this this this isn't cool man I didn't understand it because I to me it was cool so this this is I I'm like but to me this is like man this is like I'm here with my idol just like Dumpur was my idol when I was in, you know, on that, in that yard. And here I am on the streets and I'm and I'm doing some stuff and I'm sitting there, man. He's like, man, I wish, he's like, I hope you never get tattoos on your body. And I hope, and I hope he's, I hope you so, I hope you soon one day, you know, you, you know, you live a different life in this one we're sitting in right now, you know, and that guy still to this day is running, you know, and I hear from them time to time, you know, he lets me know how good at, you know, he, he sees me in doing the stuff I'm doing and he

that's me know how good I'm doing, you know. Wow. And it's crazy, man, the impact like that, you know. So you never got tatted in all your years in the system. I couldn't, man. I couldn't. It just didn't work out. I couldn't, you know, I wasn't going to have some, you know, some guy on his,

you know, like a. Some lame or some regular dude. Some guy that just made his gun, put tattoo ink on me. Like I used to watch, I have all these guys and I see all these guys put in all these tattoos in ink and I didn't like it. I was in ironwood on the yard and there's this guy, his name was my name. His last name was my first name. And I'm going to tell you, he did the best work on the yard.

Like he was in the high demand. And he was my partner, handball, partner, workout partner. I just hung out, you know, it's like we just connected in a way. And that guy right there, he sling ink, man. And I definitely would have let him. And I got out. And then I heard from him when he got out, but we never hooked up, man. And, and, yeah, I didn't want, I didn't want no unfinished product on me, you know.

Right. What happened to Thumper? Yeah. Last I heard Dumpur passed away. In prison? No. Actually, I don't know if it was in prison or on the streets. And I just, um, background check and I was doing time and stuff like that.

I heard that Dumber passed away. Wow. You know, and, uh, my second time around, I had this, uh, I had a celly. His name was Loki and Loki was cool too, man. He was a lifer. And he was another great guy, man. Were you worried all this work that you're doing in prison, you know, being a short-timer? Were you worried about catching another case?

No, they didn't care. I wasn't worried about, I wasn't worried about getting more time out of my time. I felt at home when I was in there. See, I didn't, I wasn't, I was doing my very best surviving on the streets, you know. And like I, you know, I'm like going in there. I'm like, I'm not, I'm in prison. Like at the very least, I would, at the very least, I, you know, maybe drink some Pruno on Christmas, you know?

Right. Or, you know, and, but, I think. So you're completely sober. You're completely. So now you're feeling things. Yeah. So you. Well, I think inside there that, that, that, that as much as I'm, like, I couldn't say no to

that drink, that drug when I got out. But when I was in there, like, I felt like I had a, uh, more of a responsibility of of like of being a a level headed and and and and and and and keeping a you know and keeping your you know your surrounding safe and stuff like that then I don't want to be in a nod and and getting stabbed or something or you know or in a in a dope debt you know and stuff like that and I think it's something to that like thumper like that the elders the guys that I was with that had the yards are like we don't get drunk and we don't get loaded here so sign a weakness you know and And so I, since I respected them in all that sense, I didn't, I wasn't doing that when I was in there on those yards.

Yeah, you had responsibility now. For the first time in your life, you have a purpose. Yeah. Like, I mean, the hardest thing now that you live by is like some of those kites you get in, the shots you have to call. And like, and you don't know if those, some of those, you know, the lives of people were in your hands. And like, damn, like, you know, was it the right one? Like, was that right? You know, like, is it, is it, you're reading this paperwork and you're going over this.

stuff and like, you know, and, uh, you know, and, um, it's still to this day, I, you know, I think about some of those calls I did and I don't know if they're all on the up and up, man. You're talking about like taking somebody out or taking somebody off the yard? Yeah. And not being sure if it was deserved. Like a kite would come in from the back and, and it'd be like, hey, I need you to deal with, you know, this guy for so and so reason, you know, and, uh, and you just deal with it.

And you're not sure if it was just like some beef that these people maybe had on the streets and they, you know, and now they're just trying to, you know, use you to take them out, take them out, you know. And so like, yeah, you get the paperwork on this guy's no good and that guy's no good. Some of them you just seen in the mall away, like as soon as they come in, I knew exactly. Like I had beef with guys that would come in and I, and I want 100% would run up in their cell and take care of them. And here it is, is that they'd be like, hey, you get it. All of a sudden, this guy has to be removed up to yard, you know? And this is like not, this is like, booking. This guy has to get booked, you know?

And like, you don't know, like if, you know, like if it was good or if he lived or not like that. Did you ever say no? Like, now he's good. I'm not going to do that. There was a couple times that I would challenge some stuff. And that's another thing. You sit there and you would have to really navigate through and, you know, and be like, is this guy, is this guy reputable enough to, for me, like, you get a kite from the back and Chino from, you know, like, and like, hey, telling you to do something and you're like, is this guy like reputable and stuff like that? And only a couple times did I challenge that, but for the most part, I just did it.

When you say from the back, you mean from like management. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Where does, you know, it's been said that the state prison gangs all get their orders from the shot callers in Pelican Bay. Yeah. Is there any truth to that? Or where were most of the management? I don't know. I don't know.

For the woods coming from. I don't know. I mean, for me, it seems like a lot of it back when I was doing it was coming from. like, you know, Chino from like, you know, being in the back at Chino, but I don't know that funnel. I don't know that funnel game of who is who, you know, of all there, because that at sometimes it was, when I was in Chino and stuff and there was a very political place over there at the time. And, and a lot of times, since I ran wood and a pecker word like that, and if like a P9 or skinhead came out, it was something, I would definitely deny it. I'd just be like, I don't

take orders from you guys, you know? And, um, and, and I beef with them or whatever, you know. And, um, would you just, would you basically just be like, come at me if you got a problem? I, I, I just tell them, yeah, like, I, I don't, yeah, like, I don't think many fools had a problem with you. I'd be like, hey, meet me and I'd be like, meet me at Pilkall tonight after Chow. And I go to Pilk Hall and I tell them straight to, I spit in their face and I tell them, you know, f you and, uh, I'm not, I don't take orders from you, you know, this is, I got this over here. don't worry about it, you know? And so, yeah, a couple times I did that, you know.

I don't blame you because I- That's just something, and honestly, that's just something that I learned from that guy When I, he'd be like, meet me in Pill Call tonight. And I remember the first time, I'm young. I'm 20 years old, bro, and I'm going over this guy. And I watch him fucking just spit. This guy's like, hey, you're doing it. And I just watch this guy spit in this dude's face and say, F you.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't take shots from you, you know? Like, and I Thumper taught you everything you know. Yeah, he taught, you know how, he taught you had to bid.

Yeah, he did. White boys take the bid so seriously. Hmm. Don't you think? Some people do. Some people like some people, I might have been one of them.

We go on there and like, that's the only place where somebody, or maybe that we feel somebody. And some people take that. Some people, I didn't. Being a shot caller or being somebody in there or being, you know, somebody in there. Like, there was very few times that I mean, I get my hands dirty.

You get to this point. But like, there was so many youngsters and people that just wanted to do all that work. They didn't, you know, hey, I'll stab them. I'll get my letters. I'll check this guy. I'll do that. You don't even have to worry about it. And Garrett, I have a, Gary, don't even worry about it, you know.

I had this guy come in and, and he was, he had to go. And I was like, man, guys just be like, man, I'll take care of it, you know. They go to the hole for a few days, they'd be right back, you know. You go for the hole, you send them a care package while they're over there, you know, and they'd be right back, you know, week, two weeks or something like that, 30 days, you know. And that's just for taking off on a guy, just with fists. Just for fist, yeah, just taking off on them, you know, no booking, you know. And so, and that, you know, and I like to fight in there, you know.

Like I I I was I was really big I fought I went down I was uh I felt I met this guy and he was like he was like from neighborhood Crips man and uh they were deep and um what prison is this how this was in uh this wasn't in prison this was in county jail and at this time in county jail I I seem like I I've done enough time in the prison system I'm getting ready to go upstate him and I'm in I'm in I'm in I'm in County jail and uh I'm in the I'm in like 500 or something like that and um and i i met this guy dude and he was he was he was a lifer he just he just got sentenced to life but he was like my doppelganger but he was black and he was from neighborhood but we're like like size to size and i remember i'm running these white guys and stuff we're doing

our workout program and they're saying all this stuff and that i know and um i don't know if it was a respect check or something like that but i remember that when he got my face it was the first time i ever looked at the guy eye to eye right and he's like you can run this in the back right now and he's like you can run this in the back right now and we can't turn that stuff down and I remember I ran him and the five other guys from his neighborhood you know around the first four guys you know were like his little his little minions you know that that just running it all they just wanted it they just wanted to run it that that's it's talking about one fight after another just one fight after you that are back to back to back to back to back and I remember I got to uh I got to him and his name was bird and I got to bird man and I much respect you that we went until uh we went until I fell on my ass, dude. And that was back to back to back to back, dude. And I saw him when I was up and I was going to reception at Wasco or Delano. And I remember seeing him come through on his turn.

But that was one of the most respect, legit fights with another race I ever been in right there. You know, the eye-to-eye contact. And the thing is, Doug, he was just like, man, would. He was like, would. He's like, I just wanted to know. knock you down one time. You're like, God damn, because I remember it there, you know, because I remember going and what it is, we're in the county and there were stairs.

And I remember looking back at the stairs and he got me and I fell in my ass, dude. And I was waiting for him to like, you know, get me while I was down or something. I remember sitting there, you know, like on my back of my hands, I just, and he was like, man, he was like, man, help me up, dude. He's like, I just wanted to knock you down one time and stuff, you know. And I was there too. Yeah. I was there like one of his buddies was there.

I was in Ironwood with. And yeah. And so that respect, but that respect that that created, you know, is beyond anything because they see that. You see that. You know,

you're not backing down. You're not going to, you know, call me the bitch word. And you take off on site, you know, and I just went to your whole neighborhood right now, you know,

back to back, you know. Yeah. So by the time, you're on your third or fourth bid upstate, it's like you're directing everything. By the time, my fourth or fifth or my sixth,

you know, bid upstate, like I literally just walk in and I, and I look at some guy and I'd be like, no, you know? I just be like, no,

I walked on yards and I, I'd just be like, I'd be like, who, I'd be like who, who, who, who,

who has it right here, right? I, I immediately would just, you know, like, I'm gonna be your right hand right now, you know?

You know, like, I'm moving in with you. Like, I'm going to be your right hand. I did exactly what, how Dumpur did with me. I'd be like you, you're from the valley. You're moving in with me, you know? And that's, and that's, I think that said it all from my, it didn't matter. I went from a four yard to a three yard to a two yard to a one yard, you know. And when I got to a one yard, it would seem like I arrived, you know, my points, all

this stuff. And now, now it's not really from the, from like my strike, you know, I'm like a hard point line. I'm like, I can't get a gate pass. I can't do it. But like my dream, this is my goal. My goal was to hit, you know, a one yard, right? Oh, fucking A, a lounging and kicking. I can't get an outside jobs crew,

but I'm lounging my whole thing is I want to sell drugs and I want to sell tobacco inside prison. See, so this is my whole thing. I get to this guy, I get to this yard, and his young kid comes up to me. You know, I know a couple people there, but like, I'm like, he's like, this is, I'm like, first of all, I don't take orders from you.

You know, you're white, but you're running skinhead. I don't, you know, that's cool. but I'm Peckerwood. Like we don't, you know. And so we have this little beef going on. And I take his phone, man. And my dream comes true. What I do is I start selling on the yard.

Off his phone? I bring, uh, I do drops. I bring stuff to the yard. And I start, uh, the same lifestyle. I'm living on the streets. Now I'm living now, now I'm doing inside the, on the minimum yard. Okay. So tell us about this.

So now you're on a level four, obviously in California. I want level four down to a level one. Do you? I'm a hard 19, right? I'm a, my points drop because that up. Now it's been like 11, 12 years, 13 years. I've been, I've been in and out. You know, I started at 20.

Here I am at 32. Okay. You know, I'm 32 years old. I hit this minimum yard. And I, for me, I'm like, it's this feed up, kick back and chilling for me. Right. Is it the easier? Is it easier to sell dope on a level one than a level four because of the low security?

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's easy whether you're on a level one or a level four, but you have to get it in somehow. And I remember, you know, you have to get it in. So most likely, it's kind of. coming through from a person, you know, it's coming in from a person with the, that has a little more freedom. So sitting there and thinking everything through and watching everything go down and really being observant and seeing the cycle of everything. Because everything's, everything's

in a, everything is in a cycle there. Everything is like, you know, is a ritual. Everything is like, you count at this time, walks at this time, you know, who's working when and when they're doing or what they're, it's like everything's a, everything's and you just watch and you watch and watch. man and I fuck man I pay you to jump the fence go to the street grab a duffel bag

and jump back in right yeah and uh and this is by this time the tobacco is out and um and uh and it's tobacco and some weed

and some methamphetamine and I'm gonna tell you like it's nothing like being inside of a on a an an institution and you're coming through and you have this on the street it's not much dude you have like a half ounce

and on the streets, that's really, that's not much. But when you're in prison and you're sitting there with this much, dude, and you're breaking everything up into your pinky nail. Right. That's a stick. That's a hundred bucks. That's a hundred bucks. And you and you, and everything is broken up to that, man. You'd be surprised at how, and like, you go out and that's like, I have all this going down. Like, everything's all set up. Why I'm at, why I'm out work in the kitchen, you know? And they're banging on the door like, hey, you know, and how all goes down and you set it up and that plan all goes through.

And, um, so off a half ounce of weed, 14 grams. I'm not, I'm talking about a half ounce of methamphetamine. Okay. So you can make four. Methan,

methamphetamine, yeah. Right. So you can make 1,400 bucks off of, right? 100 bucks. Oh, no, way more than that.

I'm sorry. You're making a hundred bucks off a pinky nail, right? Oh. Which is, as I don't know, but like, just say like the tip of a spoon. Yeah.

A tip of a white plastic spoon. It's basically a one shot up the nostril. 100 bucks, dude. Holy shit. So you're making, you could make like, what, $10,000 of a half ounce?

15, you know. And, how were you getting your money? PayPal, any which way you, PayPal, PayPal, you know,

I want, I want packages. I want, you know, package in your name, packages your name, my TVs, you're all,

you're on lace your whole self up with. Uh, you got to put some, you put some to the people that helped you out, you know? And then, and then you just do, you put the,

you know, and you put it to do because the next one's always going to be bigger it's never the same right and so the next one goes down and then the third one you get really cocky i got cocky at it and i was like i was like um don't even worry about i'm like don't even worry about jumping the fence at this point i'm like i'll just have people drive in and um and like you know you got people on outside cruise and i just have people drive in and um and uh we'll just push a bag out to you as they go in, like I'll rent a car that looks just like the cop cars, you know, a Toyota Camry or it was like an Impala. I think it was like a Chevy Impala, all black tinted windows look just like a, and they drive right into the mechanic shop and the guys outside crews will be working.

So, you know, and I'm on the cell phone the whole time. I'm on the cell phone the whole time. Like that talking to the person in the car. You're going to, like, you know, like sort of like I can see you driving. Oh, all right. I see you. Yep. You're going to pull that building.

You're going to see a guy. that has horns all the way down the side of his head, you know, you know, you see him, push the bug out, push it out now, right? He's going to take it. He's going to put it inside these mop buckets, right? They're going to take it in it and then I'm, and then I'm going to bring it in. Once a month, they do supplies on the minimum yard and the warehouse is out there stock it, and you sort of just put it in with the supplies and they bring it in. That's the stash. And that's, and then you just bring it in every two weeks, every one week, you know, You're just bringing in

bringing in stuff. How long does it take you to move 14 grams of dope? Two days. Oh, shit. Two days. I'm going to tell you this, that maybe it was seven grams, quarter rounds,

and it was all gone. By the time I, by the time I came back from a night yard. Why even have a job in the kitchen, man? That's just for the mental space that, you know, is it just like to go and, you know. It gets you out of your, It gets you in a routine, man.

It's all about routine. It's all about routine. And they're like, you know, you're working out. You're, you're doing this stuff. And it's like waking up and you're going to work and you're getting off work and you're working out. You know, and it's sort of getting it. Because a routine helps you time to go by, of course. That's all it is.

And I'm not doing it. See, I'm doing it. And inside there, I'm doing this. And I'm not, I'm not doing the drugs, you know. Yeah. Until I'm doing the drugs. You know, and I did, the first time I ever put a needle in my arm was on the, was on a yard, you know, for so many years, like, I went through and I, on the streets, I never

do it. I never do it, never do. And here I am, like a close friend of mine comes through, homeboy, you know, like, just my partner, you know, like, we, then everything together, you know, like, we're on this case, and all of a sudden, we wind up in the same spot. And it's exciting. And it's exciting, and I lace them up, and I let them know. And then, and I'm even bringing syringes in. I'll bring in binkies in from the streets, you know, and, um, how much is a binkie sell for? A hundred bucks. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's, the syringe cut in half, you know, not a full size of half one. And, uh, yeah.

And, um, I remember that I had a pipes brought in too. And the guy broke this pipe of one hit roll. I watched a pipe break, dude. And, uh, and I told him to put the, I told them to put the, you know, I was like, hey, hey, let's put the needle in my arm. And they were like, whoa. And that, and I thought for the, I thought, man, I'd just be able to keep it like that. I thought maybe it, it would just be that one time thing in prison that I did.

And I did it two times in prison. And I thought that I would have just got left there. Like I paroled was just that, you know, just happened. That's all, you know, that's it. And from that point forward, there was just nothing but a needle in my arm before I got loaded. And I just went from wherever I went, I just went there a lot faster. Yeah. Oh, and that took you to hell.

That took me to hell. How long after you started using the needle, did you parole? Or did you, were you in there for a while getting high? No. No, I told him I was getting rid of parole within a few months and I said, and so I was like on this last drop, I'm going to do, I'm going to lace my homeboys up and all this stuff up, but I'll make sure you guys live in large, you know?

It's the only thing I should do. And then I said, and we'll get high together on this last one. And my cellie didn't get loaded, man. And I remember he was like, he was. He worked in the program off. He was a square, man. But I was like, dude, I remember going to him? And I was like, man, this next one, we're getting loaded, you know?

And he's like, I don't know. And I was just like, yeah, we're, yeah, just one week. That's it, dude. Just one week, right? And I'm going to tell you that little bit inside there. And I was two weeks. Yeah. And boy, you know, talking about, like, it's crazy.

Yeah. So did he become a junkie? No, you just, you know, I haven't talked to, I never talked to the guy since. I went in two weeks, I stayed up for a week. Yeah. You know, and by the second week, I had a lot of weed, so I just smoke weed every single day, you know. Yeah. And then I, and then I cleaned all up, you know, a month.

And I, you know, I'm a month to the house. At that time, I didn't go to the house. I got, I was on a hold. So I went from the, I went from the pen. I went back to county and I went back to court. And that, which is the worst, you know, I think. And then I got out. And then I, and then I continued.

And then I put a needle on my arm. Once I got out, I thought it was like, cool, cool, everything's all right. You know, I just, and then, yeah, I just put a needle right in my arm, you know. So you became a junkie immediately when you hit the bricks. I became a junkie. I thought, I didn't think I became a junkie right away. I just, I thought I was hiding it well and stuff. But I admittedly always been like this junkie in a way.

And that seems like that addiction that the needle brings that instant gratification that comes from sticking a needle in my arm. I chased out 100% every time I got out until I got busted again or something tragic had to happen, you know? So when you got out this time, when you're now injecting, what year is this, by the way? This is 2000. It has to be 2011. Okay. Yeah. That's the year.

I was in prison in 2011. Yeah. This is 2000. It has to be around the end of 2011. And I do. And what is your family life? like now? Are your parents still alive? Like, what is left in Calddale? Both my parents are gone. My mom passed away just a couple years ago. My dad, about three years ago, three or four for my dad,

two or three for my mom. The dynamics of my family after my dad died just really changed everything. I don't, I don't really talk to like that, none of that family. I mean, I, I, you know, I got sober and I, And I amended all these things, childhood traumas that I may have. And I rebuilt my relationships with them, you know, on a whole different way of life. And when I got out of prison in 2011, I got a daughter who I don't talk to. I got a mom that's still in the game. A dad that I don't even, I don't even, like, he's not even in my life. At that time, I'm like, I get out of prison.

Like, you're not, I'm still living this life. And I went and I just immediately put a needle in my arm. and I couldn't stop not putting a needle on my arm. And by the time, you know, a few months goes by, I get arrested again. And I went to this, and I started this life of recovery. I went to a treatment center. I know instead of a parole violation, it was all about a treatment facility. And I left there.

I went back to county jail because I never had no driver's license. I had 168 traffic tickets and never had a driver's license my whole life. I lost like 1505 cars, you know, but never had a driver's license, you know. I, like, it was substantial. I had to go get this printout and I was like, and it names it all off, like a thick file. And I was just, it's just like amazes me. Like, you know, because when you're dealing drugs, you don't, I just want cars. And I get, I pulled over them.

And I, even what they call it, I charge it to the game. I don't care. Like, here, if you're not going to arrest me, give me the ticket and take the car, right? And so I just get in another car. I mean, there was times when I lost like three to four cars in one day just because I, I can't, like I get in this routine on the streets of just like in the car, making these rounds. And I, oh, you want to take it, you know. And so here it is, is that I get out.

It's 2011. I go to a treatment center and there's some seeds planting in me, but it's not the seed that I water and put sun sign. And I went out there and I put the needle on my arm some more. And so by this time, too, not only am I doing meth that I got into heroin. And so I'm putting heroin and meth inside of a needle and I'm shooting it. And I'm absolutely a disgusting pig, you know. You do those at the same time? I put it in the needle at the same time.

Heroin and speed. Heroin and meth in the same time inside of a syringe and I shoot it. And I'd be going 100 miles an hour, but not fast. You know, like I'd be 100 miles an hour in a nod, you know. And I go out there and I become a straight now. Now I really become that junkie that I would see. And, you know, that would just be like, I fucking sell. whatever, I give you my shoes for a hit.

I give you whatever I had. I didn't care, you know, at this time, you don't, it doesn't matter that I had a mom and a dad and a daughter because I'm not, I'm not trying to associate with none of that. You know, I'm just, I'm just out here killing time. Did you expect to go back to prison? Always. I knew exactly, like, even though I knew exactly what was going to happen when I did that, like, I knew like a, like, like, I tried, like, I tried to self-will it to go to parole office,

like, that I get out and be like a Thursday or, and I try to, to go there on a Friday, but I'd be like, I'll make it Monday and I never make it on a Monday. You know, if I didn't go like immediately that next day to parole into the parole board meeting and then I, and then I run into somebody at a parole board meeting and I, I'd be off and run and, and you know, and then plus two, I sold, you know, I did some things. So I get out, I'd be fresh and I, and I, I just walk around town. I'd be at an A.m. PM or a Walmart or something. And I run into a partner of mine and it'd just be like, I'm instantly just, they ain't going to give you no money. get on your feet, but they definitely give you a bag to get on your feet, you know?

Right. You know, and. Right. And so, um, did you, so it was almost like, like, were you kind of hoping when you're down that bad? Are you kind of hoping to go back to get locked up? Because you're better in there. You're clean in there.

At the end, at the, I am. I'm 100% on the up and up when I'm inside there. You know, 95% of the time when I was, when I was, when I was busted, I was on, I was on the up. Like, I'm a, I'm a totally different person than when I'm on the street. So if I'm on the streets, I'm weak and I'm using it. I'm just like feeding this disease, this beast inside me. And I feel like, man, I wanted to die, man.

Like it wasn't about like, you know, like I can tell you these stories about stuff I did on the streets. Like, or it's like, so like, wow. Like, no, what it was is like me living in this death wish, you know? Like, it was me just really on the inside trying to die, man. Like, you know, because that's the drugs. This is where it takes me, man. I go from that person to now. All of a sudden, like, I'm putting this heroin and meth in a needle.

I'm shooting it up. And here I am. And like, I just figure that, like my, like, I do talk to my mom. That's where all those gangsters go when we get in trouble. Like, my mom is a person. Like, I call my mom. And it doesn't matter if it was one, two, three, four, five. It didn't matter.

Like, I could call my mom, whether, like, I'm sketched out, think I'm going to get raided or like, or whatever bind I'm in or whatever, like, hey, whatever conspiracy dairy I'm in, like whatever, like, hey, I need to eat or something. Mom was always there, 100%. Like every prison term, I, 100% always got a letter from my mom, you know. And the thing is, is that when I started living that way and the thing is, like, I didn't want my mom to know I was putting that in my body like that. And here I'm, I'm on the streets and I'm just, I'm full on addicted, man.

And my addiction to me is that I'm dead, man. I have nothing to live for. I feel like, you know. Well, you're lucky you didn't die. I'm very lucky, man. Because you're, you're like almost speedballing, but with meth. I'm speedballing with math.

I'm, I'm falling out. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm like, I'm literally on a, on Harleys and I'm riding and I'm,

I'm full on chin to chest, coasting down hills. And I'm, I'm coming to with people on both sides of me honking and pointing at me like, what's going? Dude, you're asleep on the motorcycle. And I'm like,

and I'm just like, and I'm coming to, like, I just remember like you're, you're rolling, the bike's chugging and I'm coming and like my eyes are open and I'm looking and like I hear nothing but like this person I can see them yelling at me and this person yelling and pointing at me and I'm and I sort of just like I give it gas and I take off

on this bike right and I and like holy crap like you know like a cop didn't see me you know the last day you want to do is get arrested right and and and for me like even on Valentine's Day of 2013 man like it wasn't it wasn't like I'm riddle with track marks. I'm still living that life of, uh, you know, of on the streets and, um, and I'm, I'm getting shot at, man. I wasn't thinking like, you know, I was thinking. What I was thinking is that like I, as I'm running up towards this guy who's shooting at me, I'm really wishing that one of these bulls would catch me. I'm really wishing that this guy would take me out because I, I, I have no respect from myself. Like, I demoralized myself in every

which way that I feel pathetic, man, like deep down like that, the way I feel about myself is just horrendous man and like i'm i'm dying on the inside and um you know and um and like i had multiple multiple death wishes and um and yeah and then uh that night i get arrested one more time man and why were they shooting at you uh just the enemy on the streets dude like i i you know as a guy you know just a beef it's this beef on the streets with the guys and no and i i'm like i'm not one i'm like look dude like when i see you like well i'm we're on the we're on the same ground out here doing the same thing. When I find you, you know what's going to happen. And when I showed up that morning at this apartment complex, you know, and I asked the person I was with, I'm like, who's here?

And they're like, oh, you know, this guy, he's here. And I'm like, and I immediately had like a pair of gloves in my pocket. And all I'm really, at this point, all I'm trying to do, I feel like I've been up for about 40 days since I got out. Yeah. So I've been to 45 days since I got out. And I've probably been up all those days, at least 40 of them, you know. You have bad knees? No, I'm actually, I don't know if it's because I worked out all the time in prison or or what it is, but like, I'm good. Did you ever meet tweakers, though?

Like, after a lifetime of just running, you know, doing dope, they're up for so long that they've, like, whittled the bones down in their angles and knees and their feet. And I met people with one leg out there, you know what I'm saying? Okay. My bad. My bad. I remember the school teacher that had one leg, you know what I'm saying? And I, she hobbled around like, no.

Nothing. She used to be a dope fiend or something? Yeah. And I sell her dope, man. You're out there selling, like, I, you know, at one time I had a thing to where I didn't like sell. Like, I only sold to you if you had the job, you know? Like, yeah.

And so why is that? That's because they had the money. They had money, right? How prevalent is methamphetamine in Palmdale? I mean, we're getting a sense of it. But like, it sounds like normal people are doing it. I think this is that working people are doing it. Working people.

And I think it's everywhere. And just like whether people are people. person is able to like come home and take a drink and and and and and like like a functioning addict and functioning alcoholics as people who are alive out there I'm just not one of those people like if I take a drink I'm fucking shit up dude like if I if I did high I'm going to prison like 100% but the those are people out there like that like that work and and and I don't know like to me like if that's the only thing you know when you're out there that's all I knew when I was out there was that was that drug that drug environment like if you didn't do drugs

You weren't, I wasn't, I didn't know, like, you're a cop, you know, like, you're not hanging around me because I'm going to get, you're going to get a bad, I'm moving to, I'm moving too big and I'm moving too much for you to be around. Be like, what's up with this guy, you know? You know, and I, I feel like it's a little more known now with like the opioid crisis, right? But back in those days, this kind of, this was like the scourge of like white communities in small town America ravaged by methamphetamine. Like what you're talking about with Palmdale, that's so many different towns in America. Don't you agree? I agree. 100%.

Wow. Yeah, I agree that all over the world. That's, that's, it's not just something that's just an analogue valley. You can take that situation and put it in in other states and other communities. And whether you're in L.A. or if you're in San Fernando Valley or you're in Anilat Valley, like we all have those areas. You know, they're not as bad. Like, just get row.

because it's in Los Angeles is bad, but there's places in Annal Valley or even are even out there in Bakersfield that are just as bad or just, you know, that you were like, you don't want to roll through there. Like to now, nowadays, I'm just like, there's stuff like I was out there in Bakersfield

and going through this neighborhood's out there. And it was late at night and I was like, God, there was like, it was just like, this is a bad neighborhood. You know, you're rolling through like, this is a, like back in the day, this was my vibe. but now I'm not right I know I'm locking my car you know yeah I'm not trying to be here yeah I'm not

trying to be here at dark you know yeah zombies so you were going up to like you put your gloves on you're going to like beat somebody out I I told this girl like who is it I put my gloves on and uh this guy pulls up and and I and I told you know it you know what's going to happen I sort of stand in front of them and I and I and I go over to the side in this car and I I punch him to I start you know he rolls down the window I take off on him and I'm at this gate in my apartment complex. And so once the gate opens up, he takes off, you know, and then my ride's gone.

So I start walking. I'm with a couple friends of mine with, like, my, I always had a little missile with me. You know, it's as a guy. I don't know. It was like something that, you know, I always have like a little, my little guy that's under my wing, you know.

So I have a guy that's with me. And I have this girl whose house I'm going to fall asleep because my problem is that I think that, Damn, if I just get some sleep, man, I'd be good. You know, I just need a place to lay down. And as we're a walk down the street, maybe half a block, I hear his car coming. And so what I do is as they, I step off the curb and into the street. And he pulls up right there on the line.

And I just watch him, as he pulls his gun out, man. And he points it at me, bro. And he just starts, and as I see it, I don't wait from the start shooting. As I see him like this out of his car window, I start running towards it, man. And I just literally running from like, imagine from the stepping off the curb to the, just the length of that, just the length of a one lane of a street. Yeah. You know, and I don't get hit or nothing. And he takes off as he unloads a clip, you know.

And you were running at the guy shooting at him. Yeah, I run straight at him. Were you trying to get killed? Yeah, I guess so, you know. That's the thing is that when I got to a point where like if I was to die doing something, I think that people were better off. That's just the demoral. That's just what happens to me when I drank and used. I come to this point to where I just, like, you know, it was like I didn't die.

And then all I wanted to seek was revenge. And then I'm already running from the law because I don't check in. The cops are looking for me for things I did that, you know, like that I might have done in the blackout or something, you know, when I was. You know, and I called my mom, you know, if my mom has my gun at our house. And I'm like, Mom, I'm like, I need to come. I need to come grab that. that thing from the house. And she's like, well, I'm not there. And she's like, I'm in town with my friend. And it was Valentine's Day. And I get, I get loaded with my mom. So I'm like,

you want to get, I'll get you and your friend loaded, you know. And she was like, well, you know, every place that you're attached to is getting raided right now. And, um, and I was like, well, then I'll come to where you're at. And I go to her house and my friend's with me. And we get loaded and I get dropped off at this liquor. Afterwards, she dropped me off at this liquor store. You got high with your mom? Was that normal? For me, at this point? Yeah, it was normal.

You guys were shooting? No, my mom didn't shoot it. I smoke it. I hid the shooting part from everybody. I was in the closet about it. I never wanted my mom to see that part of me, you know? So like, I go there and smoke it with her, you know. Did she have a job?

Did she? No, I don't have no job. She doesn't work. She's just, she just, I really don't know what she does. She's, you know. She just does whatever she has to do. She never got incarcerated in all these years. She got incarcerated when I was a little kid,

but she never got busted or incarcerated or nothing like that. Did she sell to? Occasionally? Occasionally, yeah. Well, of course, when I was, because when I was making it, I was pushing it on her to go, you know, here, just go to my mom and get it. Go to my mom and get it.

Right. Just go to my mom and say, go to the trailer, you know, go to the trailer. So she was, you were giving her packs, packages. My number one, who you want to take care of, you know, here? Wow. You were a connect. She never had, she never had to, if I had it, mom had it, you know, she never had to, you know, go without, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, it was instant money. There's so much money in meth in those places that it's, you can't not sell. My thing, too, like, I remember what I, my big thing, like my bigheadedness of it, too, is that I thought, to me, I thought you can buy anything, anything I wanted. Like, I just like to see how I could buy anything with methamphetamine. Cars up the lot, mortgage on a house. Like, you know, a pay lawyer, just everything. like no money out of my pocket

just like with all product you know what I'm saying like so like I I had guys that worked on car lots you know and I and I just I never had it. It was never a dime out of my pocket no mortgage on a house you know air just who do you give a mortgage broker a mortgage broker? Yeah just you know

a relative a relative you know there's an ounce of fucking you know a week or something like quarter pound of fuck you know like that's just how you know right and that's just how it works you know and I just love that like I I watched, I think we were talking about earlier, like you get these working class people who, who, you know, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, and I shadow their whole life. I bring their whole life down and I leave them, right? Like, they sell, they use.

I, I watch them. I, I feed them and feed them and feed them. And I run their house on the ground. And I get a raided and I turn into a trap house. And I, I drain your bank house. I drive your cars. I do all this stuff, right? Then I just leave you.

I'll be on to the next one, right? I know by that time it'd be pretty close to me You know that your house is getting raided And I have to go find me another house to be at You know, that was just like That's what I live, you know, that's this And you were numb from the drugs Never attachment, it's never getting close to anything

Never just numb every single day And my mom dropped me off that day And my mom just dropped me off at a liquor store And, and I'm at the end of my ropes, man And I've been shooting up I got track marks all the way up and down my body I'm, um My mom drops me off with that,

liquor store and I get a bottle of vodka and I'm seeking revenge due to that guy and I'm calling my partner to go to grab that thing from my mom's house because I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a smoke him and um and a cop dude to an off duty officer I used to think I was incognito too like I'm too big to be like I really for sure thought like that that that I was just like I could just run with the like I could just fit in with the crowd right not knowing that I'm a fucking foot and a half two feet above everybody in a crowd. Right. So I'm just sitting here like, you know, thinking like, how did they identify me, right? And after they see me walking from that liquor store to my little trap house, you know, a safe house.

You know, I always had to have a safe house, you know, and walking from that safe house. And I, and I for sure that's like someone, someone had to tell, you know. They're like, and the thing is, I just stuck out like a sore thumb, dude. The cops saw me and they're always looking for, you know, and they're up to no good. And they follow me to the house I was at. And they, within minutes of me getting ready, I was getting ready to pull up, I was pulling up a shot, you know, because I was getting ready to go do what I had to do and waiting for my partner to come.

And they came. I was, I don't know, five minutes, dude, and they came in. They did these windows and doors and had me down on the ground and I was arrested again. You know, I was detoxing one more time in a county jail. I was, I was forehead to someone's back because I couldn't stay awake, you know, because now the drug. Now, now the real pain comes, right? Now the pain of going in.

Now I have nothing to put it in my body. Like it hurts to eat. It hurts to think. It hurts to like my whole body just as d-tying. Like, you know, all I can really drink is some juice. I can eat like a couple bites of a sandwich, you know. And hopefully, hopefully that I could, I could stay in a, in a holding cell and not be and not get booked. Like hopefully I can get like 24 hours, man.

I was always that grace period of like you, you get arrested. And it's like, man, the bus left. So you got like 24 hours, you know, before the next bus comes that next day. Yeah. And, man, lo and behold, I get on that first bus. I'm back down in the county jail. I'm doing the processing. And like I said, like I have a name or a hand or whatever I am when I'm in that system.

So I can immediately like people, boom, pulled which way in direction. And I'm getting loaded in there. I'm eating happy cards. I'm feeding that disease. I'm drinking some hand sanitizer because it has alcohol in it. Do you have respect even when you go in completely sucked up and with track marks on your arm? Like you still get respect as like a shot caller. The thing is, is that through the processing, through that processing, like you don't want it.

It doesn't matter like that processing of the weeks, a few weeks or 30 days that it takes to actually land somewhere. You know, like you're going in. you're going into the cell and like you're sleeping and you're sleeping and you're all of a sudden after a week of that like you're you're working out and then all of a sudden like you know by the second week you know you're going to another destination and then you're meeting some guys and and it's not like you're immediately being like some guy of authority or a shock caller but like you go somewhere in the 30 days or something like that later and then all of a sudden like it's it's like you're healthy and you're right and it just yeah and you are you know like usually I

I'd walk into somewhere and they'd just be like, you know, especially like if you've done a lot of time and you've been around and, and like you go into a place and they haven't had that much experience. Yeah. They're automatically like, hey, hey, you know, what do you think or, you know, you do it. You know, and as time came by, like, I wasn't, I wasn't interested in being that person. I was more interested in just being like, hey, I'll stay on the sideline and trying to stay away from stuff, man. So what changed this time? And what was your charge, by the way? Was it just a parole violation?

This time, it was just a parole violation, dude. Yeah. That's it. Could have been a murder beef. It was about to be a murder beef, 100%. My whole intent was, like, I was a guy, you know. Yeah. And, and I got, I went to,

it was just a parole, a parole fucking violation. And they went to, you know, and I went to parole board. And at this time, they were handing out. cars to go to a treatment facility and what happened for me is I went and uh I took uh I took a treatment facility because that this I don't have nothing dude I don't I don't have nothing out there man I don't I have I have absolutely nothing that I arrived I went to a treatment facility and and I'm going to tell you for the past 15 years up to this point I I always denied it I didn't I didn't care for I knew that I wasn't done yeah I might have wanted it right mm-hmm but uh I didn't

I didn't I didn't want it so bad that I was going to make a decision about it. And I went to a treatment facility on March 17th to 2013. I arrived at a treatment center and something I don't know. Like it wasn't nothing magical. It was just, I think that deep down to sign me, I was just really done. I was just, I got to a point where I was done, man. And sometimes like Carlito's way, like Al Pacino says in Carlito's way, he goes, sometimes you just run out of wind. You know what I mean? 100%. And I sat there, man. And I, and I think one time, What I did, I remember sitting in the booking tanks, you get caught up another tank. Over there, it's just a line, you're a number in this tank and a number of this tank.

And then until you get to your destination. And I remember sitting there and that one more time in this brick room environment and thinking, man, I'm so done, man. I'm so done, right? I mean, how many times have I been in the same room doing the same thing, man? And I was just so, like, just done. And I arrived at that treatment center, man. And I arrived at a treatment center that was a whole lot better than doing a violation in jail. Right.

And something happening to me where I wanted a different, I wanted a better life than what I was living. You know? My daughter was eight years old. I never even, I never, she doesn't know who her dad is at this time, you know? My dad, I haven't talked to my dad in 20-something years. And my mom, you know, I just, you know, my relationship with my mom was I just get loaded with my mom and I go back to prison. You know, and yeah, I started a life of recovery. That point, March 17, 2013 is my sobriety date, man.

And from that point to now that to this day, I haven't put nothing. I reached back into my past and I live vigor, you know, vigorously through it. But I live through it and I talk about it in order to help other people. You know, that's my objective in life is just to be able to help, you know, help another person that struggle, maybe the same way I struggled. and to maybe identify in the realness of what I share and to be able to, and I hope that somebody will have enough, enough strength or enough of ego out of way

to be like, man, how do I do it? How do you do it? How do you go from like somebody like that, man? It's a straight, you know, whether a shock caller or a connection or a drug addict to an addict to just a homeless, junkie piece of crap, dude. like when like what is a take for you like to be done like how how did you do like in uh i'm i'll tell you what all i did man is i i i beat every i tried every which way there was that i

thought i know how to live life man i thought i thought i was living man like you know and i'm trying to have these houses with dope car you know like 19 years old or something you know like you know 18 years old i got you know a car i bought with dope money you know that was like man I remember the first time I ever drove up to my mom's house. I had this brand new car, you know, like two tops and shit. My mom's living in this beat up old trailer and, you know, and they're just like, like, what happened? You're like, here, mom, you know, here.

Right. Here you go, you know. But I started this life of recovery, man. And I just beat every option out of me. And the recovery was the only way I had left. And I'm 100. My life today is ingrained in recovery. Yeah.

So I hear that a lot about people in recovery. They say I just finally gave up. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I gave up, I gave up trying to live life on my, on my terms. And I finally just said everything. I thought I knew about life to decide. And I started, and I started, and I took some advice from, you know, from one time,

it was dumper that was giving me my life advice. And then from there, it was Loki, you know, and then, you know, it was there from chaos, you know, it was all these guys, you know. And now I went to another gentleman that I respected a Meyer man, and he showed me a different way to live. There's this, man, this thing, man. I love it, man. And it's my favorite things to say, man.

And it's just this thing of God's on one side and the devil's on one side. And they're watching this guy come out of this casket. And the guy's looking at it as he comes out of the casket. He's watching it. He's looking at the devil and he's looking at God, you know, and they look at him and, and now, and he starts coming up and the devil looks like God and now and they, and they start, you know, God takes his people and they walk one way and the devil takes his people and they, and they go one way and the guy's watching that go down and he, the devil man taps his,

remember his disciples on the shoulder and he's like, he's like, I forgot something back there, right? And he's like, I'll be right back. And he starts walking back towards the guy. And the guy's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, man, stop, stop. He's like, hey, hey, man. He's like, I haven't made a decision yet, man. I'm still thinking about it. And he leaned back against the fence. And the devil looked at him and he said,

he said, I didn't come back here for you. He's why I left this here. But you might as well go ahead and come with me. Because I see you leaning up against that fence. And that fence belongs to me. And for what happened for me is, that for so long that what I did was applauded my environment of the circumstances that of the circumstances that came along my way that I never made a decision in my life. I just always

did the next best thing to get loaded and which led me to jail and I do my time and I get out and I repeat this cycle. But I on that day that I walked inside that treatment center on March 17th. and and I looked this girl in the eyes man and I told her that I would stay like I there was something inside of me there was enough of me out of the way that that it made sense man that I would do anything and then I maybe I finally got like I finally put my trust in the and no and um so you got off that fence I got off that fence man and what that allegory is saying is

you have to make a decision to move away from the devil because if you if you just stand there he'll let he'll take you this is the day man what it means is that um for so long that what we do is that we stand there leaning on a fence and letting decisions and letting the decisions get made for us you know yeah and what happens for the first time is that that you have to make a decision like a like the when the devil's like hey that the fence belongs to me is that i sat back there and that comfortableness on that fence and just for the ease and comfort of it. And I didn't have no direction to go in.

I never wanted to make a decision. I'd be like, you know, my direction was just the drugs and alcohol. And like I said, like the as soon as I use, it just meant, I mean, I'd be out for six days or 30 days. I'd be right back in. Yeah. Right back in. And I think that a lot of it for me is that I, that, instead of having my choices being made for me, I made a decision for me, for my choices.

And that decision was that I was going to do anything. I was tired of living that life, man. And if anybody's listen, I hope, man, I hope that if you're tired of living that life or you think that there's a better life out there, you know, there's a better life. Well, there is, man. You pulled up in a beautiful white truck, you know, you probably got a driver's license now. 100%, dude. I just got the real ID, man.

Man, it's even better. Awesome. I got a passport. I travel to world. I, uh, no, small business, you know, uh, all this stuff is great. I'm about to tell you. I, I got, I got a garage full of toys. I got, I got, I got, like, you know, multiple ways of income coming in and stuff like that.

And all that stuff is very, very much so fucking good. Like, it's admirable. It really makes you feel good as a human being like I arrived. You know, I got, I got, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and, and, And I got clean pants on and my underwear I can change every single day and my socks are different every single day, right? You know, and all that stuff is very, very nice. But for me, it's nothing compared to me when I pull somebody out of the, out of the stinking,

the hellhold of a life, just like I was explaining to you out there in the disease of a drug and addiction and prison and drugs. And I think what helped me the most is by me losing myself into other people, man. I really find out who I really was and get my meaning and purpose and life. You know, and, uh, and, and all that stuff, man, like I said, it's, it's very nice, man. It's really nice to be able to maybe pull up somewhere and be like, damn, this guy, look at this guy. You know, you know, and this nice car or nice motorcycle, like, you know, and, you know, nice restaurants. All that stuff is as is whatever, man.

I tell you what, I want to ever print. I pulled, uh, I pulled a few guys out of the depths of hell, man. and those guys that were leaning on the fence, man, I, I, I, I, I, I watched them make a decision, you know, and, and to this day, I watch how their life is just, man, it's beyond their wildest dreams. You know, even though we have 20, 20 vision, we can never see ourselves clearly. And the only way I can see of myself clearly is by working with these other men, man, on a, on a constant, man, it's never like, it's never like, oh, all right, cool, like it's over with.

It's like, I got to constantly stay in there. in the battlefield and the trenches with these other people to pull them out. I don't know what it is with me, man, but like since I identify and I've been there, like, uh, like it's just something like that like that's what brings me purpose in life. I, I never had no purpose in life. I was out there just like, like, like take me back to prison, you know, right? Like, like, basically, like I knew as soon as I got out and I, and I, and I popped open that 40 from the, from the bus station, you know, and on my way home, like I drank in it.

Like, I sort of knew exactly what was going to. happened. Like I was, I was going to get, I was hopefully going to get laid, but not every time, you know, hey, but I'm one for shit. I was going to get loaded. Yeah. And once I got loaded, it was a rap, you know. Did you, uh, did you make up with your daughter? Or did you develop a relationship? I got this relationship. I absolutely did, man. I, um, that daughter, that, I'm that dad. I, uh, I didn't talk to you for 20 some odd years. I, I rebuilt that relationship, man. I, I remember when he walked in for the first time after. I haven't seen them in like 17 years.

I haven't seen my dad. And when you look at your dad from my, when you saw him out 14 and now you're 32 and you see your dad and it's like, and like it's a whole different, it's a whole different man. It's a whole different thing, man. Like you're just like, man, dad, like whatever it is, man. I might never, I might never been able to play catch with my dad, but I got a son now and I'll make sure damn well that me and my son play catch.

You know, and I made those amends before my dad passed away. Like I was there. I was present. I was accountable. And this is all stuff I learned from being in this program from the guy I met, you know, which I call a sponsor. This guy just taught me how to be an upstanding. He taught me some basic stuff, man, that to this day helps me in life.

And I meant that, the relationship with my mom, like, you know, sometimes the person you love the most is a person you got to stay away from. I didn't talk to my mom for maybe almost two years, you know. I don't know what it was. I just couldn't feel like I. I see her, but I couldn't hang around here until I knew I was on a steady and a strong foundation, you know? And once I was, you know, like, even though like sometimes it's like, even though I have a disease and I'm in an addiction and all this stuff, that everybody around me is. And I just know that my recovery is my recovery.

And I can't expect everybody to get sober just because I did. Did she ever get sober? I know what? I never asked. But I know when I saw her. or like when I was at the hospitals or when I go pick her up for dinner when I want to introduce her to her kid

and her grandkids because now I got that relationship like my daughter and I have another boy you know and so like and I know like in those times when I when I the look on her face man like I was at the hospital one time she got a stint in her heart

I was there picking her up man and I'm gonna tell you when when my son ran out the room I went and chased him and I turned around and I picked him up and I looked around at my mom dude I'm gonna tell you like she was peeking out that door at the hospital.

And her, when she saw me, man, and our eyes met. I made my mom, like, she had like being an addiction and all the stuff that she went to and the traumas. Like, it was probably hard for her to talk about emotionally and all this stuff too as well. But I'm going to tell you, when I saw her eyes and our eyes met, man, she didn't have to say, man. And she probably knew maybe her son wasn't going to go back to prison anymore, you know,

that her son, maybe all that praying and all that hardship and all that stuff that she went through that maybe that somewhere down the line that maybe that enriched their belief in God you know yeah to like damn like my mom like I was out there I was out there doing some putting work in yeah you know like she didn't know if I was gonna come in dead or if I was or you know she's seeing the lights and sirens that you know busted again no right one more time but I'll tell you about that little girl too man a little girl was eight years old when I got back in her life I remember I was in that in that treatment facility and I ride a metro link down and um and it was so awkward and so and so like uh like i didn't know like i was like for how do you

how long it had it been since eight years okay eight years my mom brought her when she was like five years old to visit me in a county jail one time when i i came down fighting a case and i and i and i felt like she disrespected me really bad i felt like how could you bring this little girl down here to see me like this like this is my lowest and she told me this she said i remember on that phone with her and my little girl in this little box right here. And she was like, I couldn't understand it, man, because I was too self-centered and selfish on this time. He's like, this little girl loves you no matter what.

I didn't know. See, I don't know. I can't transmit nothing like that. I don't know what she means. I'm just like, you disrespecting me by bringing her to see me like this, right? And I eight years old. I remember going to my first father-daughter dance. And being so scared.

And so, like, I didn't know how to be a parent. I got my parenting and father skills at this point where I didn't know, man. I didn't know. And the guys in the program just told me that, you know, just keep on showing up. And so what I did is I just kept on showing up to every little, every little, every little dance, parade, recital, you know, everything that she had going on in her life, I just made myself present. I put the time out for all that stuff. And my daughter now today goes to San Diego State College.

And we learned to surf together. And now we surf together. Amazing. It's amazing, dude. And she called me on a regular basis. And we talk on a regular basis. And I know Dan Wellf, 100% for sure. My daughter loves me.

Yeah. And she knows 100% that I love her, you know. Look at that. Yeah. That's a miracle, man. That was from all of that. I used to take my daughter and stole cars around. selling drugs.

Oh, Jesus. You know? And a stolen car selling drugs. Like, and, you know, I'm thinking that was a, I was a dad. Right.

No driver's license, no job, right? Daddy daughter time. Daddy daughter time. Stay out here for a second. I'll be right back, right? I'll buy you anything you want when I get back.

We'll go to the store. I remember taking her shopping out those times. I don't know how to shop, but you know what I did. You can have whatever you want in the store, right? Right. Right?

Right. Right. She didn't even know what she want. Know what she wanted? She wanted time with her dad. Right. She wanted time with her dad, man. I swear to God, man, there's another thing too, man,

for all those parents out there and this stuff like this. And this guy, and he walks into his house and he sees his little girl there on the couch. And he goes in that house and he grabs a beer. And he comes over to his girl and he sits on the couch and he turns on the TV and he starts watching the news. And his little girl comes up to him. And she's like, Dad, she's like, can ask you a question, you know? And he's like, you know, he just got off work. So he's a little irritated.

And it just really doesn't want to be bothered. And he's like, yeah, like, what do you want? You know? And she's like, what I want to ask you a question? He's like, well, just ask it. And she's like, dad, you know, I want to, can I borrow $10? And he's like, $10. Why you want to borrow $10?

Oh, well, I really need it, dad. And he's like, you know what, man? Like I pay the electricity here. I put food in the fridge. Like, I get those clothes on you, right? I, man, you know, how selfish of you, you know? Like, I do nothing but give to you, you know? Go to your room.

You're grounded, right? And he sits down and he drinks the rest of the six pack. And then he goes back to his room. And as he walks by his daughter, door, he sees her on her bed, like kneeling, almost like praying and stuff like that.

And he opens her door. And she's like, yes, daddy. And he's like, let me ask you a question. He's like, what did you want that $10 for? And she's like, well, dad, you told me you make,

you know, $25 an hour. She's all been saving my allowances for the past two months. months. And all I needed was 10 more dollars, you know, to get an hour of your time. And for me, man, the most important thing that you can ever do for your kids or some of your love is, just give me your time. It's not about the money you got and the stuff you get them, man. It's about the time you give them. I sat in many places with no money, bro, just looking at just

being able with the quality of time, man. That's pretty wild. You went from fighting back to back in a level four prison riot to now your daughter goes to college and you you you made amends with your parents before they passed 100% and walked through that also and and I and didn't think about taking a drink hit or fix you know that the most like the one thing man as I as as I got sober and I'm sticking around here and I'm like I'm like is there's that one reservation like I always just think man if something happens to my mom I don't know if I can make it you know I'm a mama's boy like Like, you know, like, I'm still a mama's boy, right? And, and when all that stuff happened, dude,

and I'm talking dad and the mom back to back, dude. So it's going on three years and about one month. And I'm going to tell you, man, that I didn't, this is the, this is like the God into the program of A, man, like that. Like, I didn't think, like, when something really emotionally just sort of like sabotaged me and just sort of like, just like, that was meant to break me.

I don't know if like I put so much work in with helping these other guys and working this program and doing like enough God stuff in me that when that time came, man, that I didn't think about taking a drink. I didn't think about changing the way I was feeling that I was able to walk through those emotions and the way I felt, man, without putting a substance in my body. And it heard, man, I ain't saying that it was like, like it. I'm talking like a feeling of numbness, of emptiness of like, wow, you know, like just I just know that my last memories of my mom, dude, I went to dinner with her.

I took her out. I always would go pick up my mom with her grandkids and I take her out, man. And I dress my, and I dress my son up. This looks just like me. I got little baby pictures and I dress them up the same way. And I see her be in the restaurant and my, you know, I'm not parent. I said my kids, I mean, like, run around, you know, just like running around, like grabbing salt and pepper off all the other tables type thing, you know.

but I see her looking at him. And I'd be like, does he look familiar? Does he look like me, mom? Right? And she'd be like, yes, he does. Looks just like you. And brings tears my eyes thinking about it now, you know. Garrett, yeah.

God bless you, brother. Thank you, man. And everybody at home listening, you can do it too, you know? So switch over. We're going to talk a little bit on the Patreon. I mean, this was an amazing episode. Absolutely killed it. Is there anything you want to plug your treatment center or anything like that?

Mindset recovery. You can get a hold of me on my social media. Garrett McLendon on Garrett McLendon, 1R1T on the Garrett, IG. Please hit the IG button. Follow me. I'm looking for that. Facebook. You can follow me.

Reach out to me. And if anyone that you know needs help with struggling with, you know, fit in all pills. alcohol, drugs, whatever it is. Just please, you can reach out to me, man. I'm here to help. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Okay. Thanks, brother. Thank you. Thank you, man. Thanks, guys. Take care.