The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Texas Death Row Worker Reveals the Execution Rituals Nobody Talks About

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

In Part 3 of Tim’s interview, he exposes the brutal reality of life inside the Texas prison system, including Texas death row, extreme heat with no air conditioning, alleged corruption, contraband cell phones, prison violence, and the inhumane conditions inmates face behind bars. Tim shares firsthand stories from his time in Texas prisons, including what it was like working on death row, seeing inmates receive execution dates, witnessing the emotional impact of executions, and hearing about wrongful convictions. He also breaks down how contraband gets into prison, how inmates survive scorching heat, how prison hustles work, and why he believes the Texas Department of Criminal Justice has gotten worse over time. This raw prison interview covers the hidden world of Texas prisons, death row inmates, prison politics, commissary hustles, staff corruption, segregation, gang dynamics, and the struggle to rebuild life after incarceration. If you’re interested in true crime interviews, prison stories, death row documentaries, criminal justice reform, wrongful convictions, and real-life accounts from former inmates, subscribe for more long-form conversations. Topics Covered: -Texas prison system -Texas death row -Life on death row -No air conditioning in Texas prisons -Prison heat deaths -Contraband cell phones in prison -Prison corruption -Wrongful convictions -Executions in Texas -Prison violence and survival -Segregation and prison politics -Life after prison Go Support Tim! IG: https://www.instagram.com/tattoos_bykriminalkustoms/ Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 Life on Death Row: Getting the Job 02:00 Prison Heat & Air Conditioning Issues 05:00 Extreme Heat and Health Dangers 09:00 Corruption & Water Shortages in Texas Prisons 12:00 Prison Profits: Commissary & Phone Costs 16:00 Contraband: Smuggling Phones & Drugs 21:00 Death Row: Execution of an Innocent Man 27:00 Death Row Life & Prison Economics 32:00 The Politics & Hustles of Death Row Jobs 38:00 Passing Socks, Stamps, and Prison Currency 44:00 Handling Food, Muslim Rules, and Corruption 48:00 Violence, Stabbings, & Prison Justice 54:00 Who Ends Up on Death Row vs. Life 01:00:00 Death Row Inmates: Psychopathy or Normalcy? 01:07:00 Segregation Units & Survival Stories 01:14:00 Harassment, Retaliation, and Violence 01:17:00 How Texas Prisons Have Gotten Worse 01:22:00 Final Thoughts: Broken Prison System & Reform Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So when I got the job on death row, I mean, obviously I looked at it like I could make some money back there. Those were the guys who had their dates. When they got their date and they were back there, they weren't even the same anymore. Half of them wouldn't even talk sometimes. And then there was a ritual with those guys the week that they were getting executed. They started telling us, hey, y'all watch out because we're bringing a dude out to take him to Huntsville to be executed. Even the guards that were taking him when they put him in that van, I overheard them saying that they knew he was innocent. I looked at him and he just looked at me like

and I'll never forget that look but that's that yeah Is it true in Texas prisons that there's no air conditioning? Yeah there's no it They have these things now called swamp coolers but they're only like on certain pods on certain units and it's like this big old like

device I don't know what it is and it'll suck in the heat and then it'll blow out like half-ass cool air and it makes the pot extremely humid. I was never able to have one where I stayed at. I fell out of place one time and was in one.

And it didn't really make a difference if you stood in front of it or around it, it would kind of cool that area. But no, there's no AC at all. And I don't remember. I know this used to be true, but I don't know if it still is. So like when Texas would

sue to get air conditioning. I think them in Louisiana, they like, I think they're kind of in the same system. So, say Louisiana would sue to get the air conditioning because you can actually look this up. It was in 2014. It was when I was back in prison, and I was at that place Hutchins unit in Dallas.

It was called Club Hutchins. And I want to say on the arts, so they had like six people that were TDC guards that were on the Dallas news. they had all their bodies blacked out, their voices distorted because they were testifying against TDC on the horrific heat conditions because of officers passing out and dying and just passing out with heat stroke and they were scared for their their identities were being sealed even in the case because they were talking about how TDC is a gang and a

but like say Louisiana had got it past because I saw it on the news. That's why I'm bringing this up I think Louisiana won their suit to get it passed, but then Texas appealed it because that means they were going to have to get A-Cs and their stuff. So, long story short, there is no A-Cs in Texas. There are a couple, I think, the newer units with swamp coolers. And in the summertime, like specing on the old units, like the red brick units, like that fucking clay, it holds heat. Those walls will sweat.

Like, we would, on closed-cusy and medium-custy, we had flood the cell and lay it like on the concrete and lay on the fucking the water. But like on those red brick units, you can fucking throw water on the wall during the summertime. It'll sizzle. It'll, like that's how fucking hot it gets in there, bro. It's no joke. And then they'll try to make you be like fully fucking dressed

with that stiff raw cotton outfit sweating your nuts off. Like, it's, yeah, it sucks. Do any inmates die of heat exhaust? Yeah, hell yeah. Every year, every year of heat exhaustion. When I was at Hutchins, a couple of dudes died during a summertime from heat exhaustion. The one dude he had asthma, I think, and his parents sued TDC. And they actually, TDC settled out with them, like, fairly quickly because it was on the news. Hmm. And the corruption in the TDC, Texas Department of Corrections, you know, it sounds rampant. Dude, it's so bad. Like even so, when I was there, the second time, I was at Torres unit.

So there's a couple of the bigger, like, units that are close to us, like McConnell and Connolly and stuff like that. So I was going on medical chain. And when you go on medical chain, you got to go down to this medical hospital called John Seeley and Galveston. And we were picking dudes up from McConnell and Connolly. and their water was shut off. It's still happening right now on those units and some other units very bad. Like, I could just shoot you the articles.

They're keeping their water cut off. They're not even going to child, bro. Like, they're feeding them those Johnny sandwiches. They're supposed to, like, turn the water on so they could flush the toilet. They're leaving their toilets full for, like, weeks at a time. My buddy, who I can introduce you to, my boy Justin Smith, good Muslim brother.

um ex blood gang member uh he's got stomach problems still to this day uh he had boils coming out of his skin from the bacteria of them smelling feces like in their toilet throwing a towel over the toilet because they're refusing to flush the water like turn on the water so they can flush the toilets and they're supposed to let them go outside to use the porta potty and they're not letting them do it it's it's very it's inhumane dog like i'm not a prison i am a prison advocate

get to a certain, you're going to lock somebody up. You're not changing them by treating them that way. Why would they refuse to turn the water on? I heard they were selling fucking water to the city. I heard there was water shortages out there, and I heard that they were selling the water. I don't know how that would work. Obviously, something is going on.

Why aren't you turning the water on? Like, something is going on. So somebody is making some money somewhere. right and that prison for profit scam like because even the commissary all the almost all the commissary items are produced in huntsville so it's these people that are over the prison system who are financing the commiss the look at the fucking phone company i think it uh i was reading yesterday i think they said the phone company securist makes like four billion dollars a year or seven billion a year off the call rates, the expensive money.

How much does it cost for a phone call? I don't know how much it costs a minute. I know I put 50 bucks a month on the phone from a homeboy fleabag. So, and that goes through pretty quick. You know, he calls me once a week. And we don't even stay on the phone a full 20 minutes. He'll call me, hey, bro, ooh, and I like, all right, bet. So tens of thousands of inmates times 50 a month.

Yeah, it's a lot. That's a lot. What are they charging for a cell phone call in there? Oh, if somebody wants to use the JAG? Mm-hmm. It depends because dudes rent it out. It depends on the person who's got the JAG, really. Dude, they rent them out, usually.

They'll rent it out to somebody to use it. Or, I mean, like, I know when my homeboy had a JAG, I never touched those motherfuckers because you're just risking too much fucking with the jag. I know he charged, I think just to make a phone call was like five or ten bucks, and you weren't on the phone that long. You're talking about like a couple of minutes. How easy is it to get a jag, a cell phone, into prison? Too easy.

I mean, bro, you got to think the guard, she or he is only making, so much money a month, they probably got two, three kids. You got a dude in there that's got money and is willing to pay them. They're bringing it in. They don't check them. They do and they don't. So if they bring that jag in, it's just too easy, bro. It's way too easy.

Oh, fuck it. I'm going to go ahead and it. Should I, do? Okay, dog. They already got busted, so it ain't like I'm ruining nothing. It fucked them up. So check this out. So my homeboy, his fall partner, they were both on America's Most Wanted.

This is the last time I was in prison. So they have a deal in there called the craft shop. So like a lot of the TDC guards, like they'll get, like you can go up there like as an inmate and say like be a leather worker. You can make saddles, this, that, you can sell it on the streets. It's all legal. So my homeboy, his homeboy, and I never knew how they were doing it until after they got busted. Because even my homeboy, who was my right-hand man, Harry, he's back locked up now.

He was so quiet that he didn't even tell me how his fall partner was doing this. So his fall partner got a dude in the craft shop who did airbrush. So you know those little air compressors? So the company that the craft shop went through, that was approved by the prison system that they could order supplies through. My homeboy's fall partner, supposedly his people were like big time,

I don't know, they were like bikers or cartel or some shit he had told me I can't remember. But I don't know if there's an article on it, but I'll look it up and see if I can find something and I'll shoot it to you. Somehow his people, got a hold of the people that worked in that through that order company. Bro, they were, he was getting those, those little air compressor sent in once a month,

stuffed phones, bud, squares, all that shit. So the air compressor was stuffed full of drugs and was getting sent straight into the fucking farm, bro. From the company. Yeah, from the company. The actual company. Yeah. So he was able to pay somebody on the outside, yeah, to shoot it in, bro.

And they had, dude, they had the galaxy phones, free world fucking Samsung, galaxies, free world iPhone 7s. The motherfuckers was down there watching porn on them motherfuckers. Yeah, they were, they, they, they. So they were making like hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean, that kind of shit is invaluable. Invaluble. You can name your price almost. Yeah.

Are there a lot of people hustling selling dope from the cell phones? I'm sure there are, but I mean, you can make moves on the streets, obviously, but the goal would be to make money in prison. Because like I told you, like those pencil sharpeners, so now they have the pencil sharpeners. Well, I don't know if they still do, but no, I don't think they sold those on commissary. I think those came from the craft shop. They had the pencil sharpeners, the little handheld ones,

they had two holes. They had one that had the bigger hole and then one that had the smaller hole. So the one that had the bigger hole, I know you could fill it up with like coke or meth or some shit. And that was like $150 bucks. So you're telling, you're talking about somebody if they get like a fucking ball, a meth in,

that's probably like 45, 50 bucks now on the streets. You're talking about selling that little bit in a deal for 150 bucks off a ball. They're probably making like $3,500, $4,000 off a ball. So you're talking about a zone. They get a zone, a clear ain't shit now. And you're talking about breaking it down like that in the joint. Man, they're probably making 10,000, 15,000 off a zip of clear in prison. Garin fucking T. That's guaranteed. And that's like a zip of is like the size of a golf ball. It's the size of a golf ball broken down.

And you're talking about a female guard. She can just put, she can stuff that. Mm-hmm. And bring it in and. And how are people getting high on meth? Are they smoking it? Smoking it or snorting it,

putting it in their coffee, stuff like that, drinking it. Mm-hmm. So are there, you think there's people, because, you know, like Polanski and, what is the other,

facility. Torres. They're basically the same building. They're just segregated. Well, Torres is a whole other unit. So Polonski is a max, right? A maximum security prison. There was some dude who commented on your thing talking about, I was at a supermax. There ain't no fucking supermax in Texas. That ain't how that shit works. So that was a lie. There's only a maximum security, medium security and minimum security. And maximum security prison, there's several of them.

There's just different custody levels. Like segregation is just segregation. It's not called supermax. And death row is not called supermax. I mean, death row inmates get treated like SEG inmates. You know what I'm saying? Seg inmates just might get to maybe come out and go somewhere maybe more,

but they both get the same fucking treatment. So it's no fucking different except for one motherfucker is going to die someday And the other motherfucker's not Now Torres is a medium-custy unit It's smaller like Polonski's like a 3,500 man unit And I think Torres is like 2000 or something But like the biggest unit in Texas, if I'm not mistaken, is Darrington I think Darrington, Darrington, which is a red brick

I think it's like 5,200, 5,500 man unit So but like Tories Torres is a medium security unit because if you have anything over 40, 40 or 45 years, you're not allowed to be there. And they changed that law when I was back at Torres because there was dudes over there with life sentences and they all got shipped off because they changed that law. So that's the only difference is like how much time you can have on these farms, you know. And the death row, where, what unit, what prison is that located in? That's at Polonsky in Polk County. It used to be called Terrell unit, Terrible Terrell.

You had Territ, like the Torres, Terrell, and Telford used to be called the Terrible T's, the three Terrible T's. But when they killed that black dude that I was telling you about, that innocent black dude, that dude Terrell, the news was always there, bro, like out in the parking lot. You could always see him. What, remind us about the black dude who got killed. I want to say he got executed for a double, I want to say it was a double rape and homicide.

I could be wrong by the rape, but I want to say that's what it was. And later on, because the Black Panthers and the, I want to say it was the Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam protested. I know for a fact it was the Black Panthers of Houston, and I think it was the Nation Islam too.

They were all out on the highway and shit. They wound up getting his DNA tested, and I thought it was from, one of the women's underwear, I think. I could be wrong. I know there was a case like that, so I could be getting him mixed up. But it came out that he was innocent.

And when that happened, it forced them to start doing the DNA tests on people in Texas. And then there was a gang of motherfuckers, like my homeboy Red Rum from Dallas. He was really, I think he was from Oakland. He was a Pai Roo from Oakland. and he was one of the people so on the Dallas newspaper

they had like a strip of like mug shots basically red rum was in there for a false rape he gave his time back and went home there was a bunch of dudes that had gave their time back and went home there was a white dude there that was getting extorted for a molestation that he didn't even

fucking do he was in there that they probably fucked him up for the rest of his life he was in there he was a punk a homosexual getting extorted and pimped out and it came out he was innocent the whole fucking time. They ruined his whole life. And so that case of the innocent black guy getting executed,

is that the guy that you actually saw being locked to his death? Tell us about that. Well, and they bring him out. They tell you to catch the fence. And I was out of place doing something. I think I was at the law library. So I just so happened to be in that area. And so there was this group called Texas Seven,

who had escaped from McConnellie unit, I think, or McConnell. And they're the reasons why, like, all these fences and all this security had changed so much because before a Terrell unit was wide fucking open. Like, you could go anywhere, especially if you just had a broom. Like, a broom was power because they thought you were working. So they just, you could just go wherever you want. So I just grabbed a broom, and I was mobbing because they hadn't started building gates on our unit yet. We knew they were coming.

And I was over there out of place doing something. I can't remember why I was over there. But I remember they brought the van up, pulled up the van, and then they started telling us, hey, y'all watch out because we're bringing a dude out to take him to Huntsville to be executed because they go to the walls unit to get executed. And when they came with the escort and everything, and then they tell you to catch the wall or catch the fence,

because I had to law, I was like, oh, man, I'm working right now. I'm on sidewalk crew. He's like, yeah, you're cool, Griceheimer, yeah, whatever. And then I caught the wall. And when they brought him out, I remember when he was walking and I, like, turned, I have my hands like this and I turned and I looked at him because the building's right here, 12 buildings right here. So he's got to go out this gate right here where that van is. And I remember when I looked at him and he looked at me like, I told you I'm an energy person. Like I could just, man, you could just, he just like looked at me like, fuck. Like you get, bro, you could feed, even the guards that were taking him, When they put him in that van, I overheard them saying that that shit wasn't right. And even later on, when I got that job on death row, guards would still talk about it. And they said that they knew he was innocent. Wow.

Just based off his energy. Just based off his energy. They just said that they knew it. That they knew he was innocent. They felt so. You could tell they felt bad walking him. Like you could tell that they felt they felt bad. Like you just, you saw it in their face.

Like it was, it was very, I can't explain the feeling or the emotion, but you could tell that they knew what they, like, you just, everybody knew, they knew, they, even I knew. And then when it came out, he was innocent, I was like, that's fucking crazy, dude, that I looked at him and he just looked at me, like, and I, I'll never forget that look, but that, yeah. You know, you've seen guys get their throat slit in prison. You've seen guys bleed out, gets stabbed to death by multiple inmates. But how do you rank that experience looking into that innocent man's eyes as he's going to be executed? How do you rank that in terms of, like, impactful things that you saw? I think it was like top, probably top one because psychologically he's in there for. for something he didn't even fucking do. And then he got put to death for something he didn't do.

How do they, do they gas inmates in Texas? No, no, that's the fucking, the lethal injection. So it's like, could you imagine that, man? Like being in jail for something you didn't do, like, and like one of my best friends, his son got out on bond for a case that he swears up and down he didn't do. my best friend, one of my best friends. He called me the other day, and he told me his son got out on bond,

he cut the ankle monitor off and went on the run, and he didn't know where he was at. And he was like, man, I don't know what to do, because they were offering them 25 years. And I was like, do you think he's guilty? And he was like, no. And I was all like, can you blame him? And he's like, what do you mean?

I said, have you ever been to jail before? And he was, and he, like, went into jail and bonded out one time for some boys. bullshit a long time ago. He's like, but still, man, I said, bro, if you've never done nothing, if you, if you're innocent and they're going to put you in jail, do you think you would, do you think you would willingly turn yourself in? And he was like, well, he, they had offered him six years. He was talking about taking it. And I was like, because he sat in the county for almost a year with no bond. He just wanted to get on with his fucking life. That's the

fucked up thing about the system where they got like that. 98% conviction rate because you're not innocent until proven guilty. You're guilty until you can prove your fucking innocent. And unless you can get a real fucking lawyer that's willing to go to trial and fight for your fucking case, you're going to jail. I mean, it is what it is. Like I told him, I said, man, I said, fuck it, it is what it is. Like if he, do you believe he did that case? He said, no. I said, then fucking, it is what it is, bro. Like, I wouldn't want to go sit in jail for something I didn't do. And you're offering me 25, fucking. years, you got me fucked up. Like, I would have ran too. Like, catch me if you can,

motherfucker. I'm gone, bro. And then to see, and it all, the reason why I think like that is when I saw that dude's face. And then not even that. I saw other dudes get off a death row. Like when I had worked back there the first time on the shower crew, there was a guy back there who had been back there 35 fucking years. And we were talking and he was like, man, Tim, I've been back here 35 fucking years fighting this war. And then he was on the news when he got released, they released him from Huntsville from the walls, and they put a cap on the money he could sue for. You lock a motherfucker up for 35 years and you tell them they could only sue for, you know, a couple hundred thousand or some shit. And I mean, no matter, no million would replace 35 years, but 35 years in a fucking cell

confined, you don't get out. At one point in time in Texas inmates used to the death row inmates, I heard they had their own side of the unit on the walls where they could like go to work and stuff but somebody fucked that up so they just sit in a cell all fucking day long bro like do they get out at all for yard? There's an indoor wreck right there a passive wreck

that's shaped like a weird triangle and it has one table it has this thick ass pull-up bar and that's it and then there's an outdoor wreck that's smaller than they this fucking room with a basketball goal that's fucking like 30 feet in the fucking air with the dead fucking basketball. And that's it.

And they're not getting no sunshine, no nothing. And you know by law, inmates in jail are supposed to get so many hours of sunlight a week for the vitamin D and E and shit because it helps with like depression and shit like that. So they just got these dudes sitting back there like, you know, yeah, it's fine. Seeing him, dude, I've had dreams about that shit. I still think about that, man. But I'm just kind of emotional like that. Like, I'm a very emotional person.

So, like, I don't, I'm not emotional like I think reckless, but I wear my heart on my sleeve and I have a heart. And there's things in my life that affected me and seeing a dude and seeing that walk and seeing that face. Like, if I could put like a flash drive to my head and pull off that image, So other people could see that image. I think it would probably change a lot of people because they're just treating the justice system like a fucking, an assembly line, dude.

So then why did you accept the job that came later on death row? Honestly, I accepted a job for, like, the money I can make back there, like, hustling. But also, number two, because, like, I told you, like, I'm a tribalist. So, like, to me, like, I was the type of person in prison, and I got in trouble for this all the time. I was the type of person in prison who was always trying to get petitions going.

I was always trying to get inmates to, like, put aside their differences and come together and, like, do some shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, and orchestrate some shit. Like, one time, bro, we tied a sheet to the door and tied it around the bench and refused to let the laws come in the bench

because they were jacking us for wreck on medium custody. So we fucking tied a fucking sheet and tied it over there to the, they got benches on the pods now but they didn't used to have them. And we tied it so how the table is and you got like the pole that goes

the little ass at the table. We tied it real good there. And when they tried to like come in, we had it so they couldn't get in and fucking we took sheets and put them all the way across the windows and shit and stuck them up there with tape that we had got off the SSI

to block out the window and we were like, bro, if y'all don't start giving us wreck, man, we're going to flood the pod, we're going to fucking try to kick these toilets off the wall and just cause the state money so we could get wreck. But then when you do stuff like that, when they come down to the pod,

they'll say, oh, we'll give you what you want. We just want the person who started this because then they're going to give that person an insinuate in a riot case. So like, I would always try to wire some shit up like that for us to stick together. So when I got the job on death row, I mean, obviously I looked at it, like I could make some money back there, but because deep down in my heart, I'm a, I'm a people's person. Like I told you in the first podcast I did with you, like they would stuff these socks.

So you have A through F pod and A through F section. The lower the sections you go down, I mean, the lower the pod ranks you go down, like I think it's after D. I want to say D starts it, E and F. Those people, the ones that are on death row, because there's some SEG back there, they're on the most restriction you can be on. I'm talking about these dudes, they set fires, they dash the laws. So like the food slot tray, they'll have a box over the food slot tray to where they can, I think it opens up the top and they put their food down there and they shut it. Like those dudes will be in there without even a fucking mattress, bro.

That shit's illegal. Like they'll be down there with nothing. A pair of fucking thin-ass boxers, and they keep it cold is fuck back there. So as far as like air conditioning and prisons, on death row, there's air conditioning. It's cold back there. I don't know how they got air conditioning, but they fucking got it. So when they would give those socks, you could charge 25 a stamp for the socks. What's the sock?

It's like the long, they give you gray like a tube sock that comes up to here. They can stretch out, so they stretch it full of food. and the door when it pops off there's like a square right here so like when it when it pops off on the track you can stuff shit out the square so the laws have to let you traffic and trade

like you could obviously probably sneak it around them but so when you clean the pod this is how it goes so when you go on the pod you got the SSIs which are the porters and the shower crew guys so like say I'm pushing say I'm working two row I'm pushing on two row you'll be behind

me with your back to me with the mop and you'll be mopping as I go. So you're not like milking it and hanging out and shit like that and the shower crew guy is cleaning a little small-ass shower. The shower is probably as wide as me with a little bit over. So if a guy's going to pass a sock, he's got to holler at you real cool, real quick. But me, because how I conducted my business, whatever officer I was working with, I would ask them when the shift started. I'd be like, hey, are you cool if I move some socks? And I'd be like, yeah, I ain't tripping. So when I come through it, like, look at our temple,

Temple, what's up, you got me? And I'm like, yeah, shoot the shit out there. But I never charged them. And the reason why they didn't charge them is because they're shooting it to somebody who's on a restriction. The dude's already on death row. I'm not charging you. And because I did that so much, when I would come on the pod,

man, dudes would just chunk me. all of a sudden, a whole roll of fucking stamps out there. You're talking about three, four, five hundred stamps. From the death row signs. From the death row inmates. They would shoot them out to me because I took care of them. And then on top of that, their socks always made it. So there would be dudes like my coworker who would jack dudes for their socks.

And he would lie and be like, man, the law, I had to dump the sock, man. They fucking fell on me. So like one time I was coming through and I was cleaning. and I'm on the mop. So you remember my homeboy, E&J, I told you about, the dude that got off a death row because he had got put on when he's like 16 or whatever. So I come through, and every night I came through,

he had food ready for me, and the laws would let me eat food. And he was a stupid, cool inmates, so the laws fucked them because he never caused no problems. So he'd be like, look out, Dammu, I got some tacos made for us. He'd always have his cell lit up in all red and shit. So he had, they'd pop the bean shoot. He'd kick some tacos. out, we'd eat some tacos, the officer would eat some tacos, and we had chop it up. So he was like,

he's like, hey, bro, I'm like, what's up? And he was like, uh, that fool from H-town. What's up with that fool in them socks, bro? Them socks just keep coming up missing too much. And for some reason, your socks keep making it. And I looked at them and I was like, you know, I'm not trying to be putting like a no crossfire or nothing like that. And I was like, what you think is happening? What's your first mind tell you? he's like he's jacking i said you got your answer i kept mobbing so the dude that he burned a couple times he comes through and he comes through and uh he's a t s cat and uh he's like look at our temple i'm like what's up baby and he shoots out a bunch of so they sell these uh king leo you can find

him at some stores they're a line with the crown king leo mint sticks they got those and they got the fruit sticks which are like rainbow cuckers kind of like a candy cane, but they're thick. He just shoot out a bunch of minsticks and fruit sticks for me. And I pick him up and put him on my back pocket. He's like, Jay Temple, I'm like, what's up? He's like, uh. And he, you know, I'm just going to say it for the interview.

So he's like, he's like, that Mayaete stealing my socks. And I was like, what's your first mind tell you? He's like, that's all I need to know, bro. I appreciate it. I'm like, yes, sir. And just kept it pumping. and man dog we make it down to the depot and as soon as we make it down the depot

fucking the one dude's cell who's always lit up motherfucker fucker shoots him with the spear for fucking jacking them socks he shoots the worker the orderly yeah he short shot the orderly in the neck with the spear

how does that work how does the spear describe the spear and how he shoots it out of his cell they use the spes and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the boxers. And they intertwined it really well. So it's, it's, you know, it's like a, a fucking, like a, a bow and arrow string. And then you remember how I told you the magazine paper? He had that magazine paper fucking, I'm talking about two of the fucking tea tight. And then they, you either do that sugar mix I told you about,

there's probably other ways to do it and that shit was rock hard fucking rock hard and he dipped the end of it in fucking shit so they had been sitting on fermented shit and shot him in the fucking neck with that spear and uh that dude what he wound up having to go to john seeley behind that shit but they they took his job from him for it and that was behind him stealing stealing from those dudes back there and they were able to shoot it through the food slot no no no so you got you remember i told you on the newer units they have have the windows, they're like two windows like this with the intertwined metal, the intertwined metal fucking deals like the diamonds. So he just had the fucking spear like that and fucking

hit him with that hoe. And so he had to go to the hospital? Yeah, hell yeah. He opened his neck up. Yeah. Because I was mopping. So I'm mopping with my back to him and all of a sudden fucking you just hear him, oh, fuck. I turn and I look. And I was like, I guess that's what he, from him for him stealing, you know, that's, that's what happens. I mean, that shit even happened to a dude from my hometown. He murdered this woman, this older woman, she was an older lady in our neighborhood on the south side. I'm going to get that, I'm going to shoot that article to you.

He murder her, bro. She would help out anybody. People, like, we'd go mow her grass as kids and stuff like that. So this is like years. I'm already have already been in prison when this happened. So he wound up going over to her house, I think to mower grass, and then he killed her. He stabbed her a bunch of times.

Stole her car, stole her jewelry. I think he went and bought some clothes at like Dillards or some shit. So when I got back there on death row, the SSI, because he wasn't back there when I went back there as a fucking before, around the shower crew, but he was back there when I was at SSI. So when I came down through there, they're like, hey, homeboy from Temple, said, what's up, man, woo? And I was all out for real.

And they were like, yeah, I was like, where's he at? So that they tell me. So when I get down on his wing, I see him because his door rolls this way. I see him looking down. He's looking at me. Look out, Tim. What's up, bro? And I don't even say nothing.

So by the time I get into his cell, he's like, man, what's up, Tim? and I'm all like, man, oh, what's up, me, fool? And he, like, had his fingers through the deal for me to, like, to touch his hands. I'm like, man, hell. I was like, I don't fuck with you, dog. I was like, you murdered that old fucking lady. That old lady would give anybody to anything, fool, you're a fucking piece of shit. And I was just talking real loud.

I was like, you're a fucking piece of shit, bro. And called him out, like, just everybody was listening. And I was like, can't believe you killed that innocent lady, bro. Don't nobody respect that bitch-ass shit, fool. Fuck you, dog. I was like, you ain't, you ain't from no fucking simple fool. You're a fucking piece of shit. Don't nobody in the hood.

Fuck with you no more. Because I had got letters from some of my homeboys saying what he had did. And I was like, you ain't shit, bro. You made your family look bad. You made your brother look bad. You're fucking low-life-ass motherfucker. And I don't know if it was because I said this and called him out like that. I don't know what was up.

I don't know if it was because I had built such a good, rapport with people back there because of me trafficking, trading socks for free and like always taking care of people, like, you know, making sure shit was legit and stuff like that. It even goes deeper than that. So I know when I wasn't on shift, he got speared. And I heard he got speared for fucking doing that murder on that lady. And then he was even dashed a couple times with piss and shit. as well. And I don't know if it was because of me, but I mean, like, it went further than that. Like, so on death row, they, so they prepare their food, they cook all the food, right, and they put

them in those metal, like, container things, and then they go and put them on the line where there's, like, heat under there, and it's supposed to be water and keeps them hot. So they'll put all, they'll prepare their food there, but then they'll put it in these hot carts, and they'll traffic it to death row, and then they have, like, a little kitchen set up there, and they'll set all the food up on the line there and then they'll make their food there. Well, there's dudes

back there like Muslims and shit like that. So there's certain laws that food safety health code laws that the system has to follow that they don't follow. But for some reason on death row because I think they have so much outside support, like

I told you, those people, those organizations send those dudes big money. Like bro, like every death row inmate that I fucked with personally, they all had like $40,000, $50,000 on their books. Like they got crazy fucking money. So like they have these things called grievances. When they write their grievances,

their grievances get investigated. Because they got lawyers that they can go to. So like there's certain like Muslims back there and shit. Like you're not allowed to touch their food unless you're a Muslim. Because then that Muslim prays. So that's the rule, right? He prays. He does wudu.

They know he's going to be clean. he's not only a Muslim can touch that dude's food. Well, when I worked, I made sure that that was happening. I made sure that the Muslims only touched his food and that the Muslims only served his food. And when I wasn't on shift, Muslims knew that that policy wasn't being followed. But I would put myself in the crosshairs

for those dudes back there because I don't know, I'm just built differently. So you're making money through stamps. Yeah. You're bringing commissary food, putting them in socks, and dumping them off to the inmates on death row. Is that because they are not allowed to get commissary? The ones that are getting socks sent to them is because they're on commissary restriction.

It's not because they don't have money. They got money. So is, but nobody on death row can get commissary. No, they can get commissary. So why would a death row inmates be on restriction? For dashing a law or maybe just the law fucked with him. It depends on what he did. If he either did something or maybe the law was fucked with them

and he didn't, you know, want to abide by their rule or whatever and they put them on restriction for commissary restriction for whatever. So stamps, like in the Fed's stamps are the main currency. Does that sound like the same in Texas? Yeah, I mean, they're still currency down there now, but I think, well, the reason why they were good currency when the first time I was in prison is because you could send stamps home and then your people could go to the post office or somewhere and turn them in and get the cash for them. But I heard now that the stamps have to be on like the book. Like it can't be like individual stamps. That's what I heard.

I don't know if that's true. But that's what I heard. But I know when I was in there the first time, I had so many goddamn stamps that when I would get visits, I would fucking put them hose in my mouth. And when I'd come to visit, I'd spit them hose out and put them in like a bag of chips or something like that.

And my mom would get them out. My mom would go and fucking cash them hose in. So you were eating off this little trade. Fuck, yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I didn't even charge anybody to move the socks. I didn't charge.

I did it for free. If the law said I could do it, I did it for free. And they would send, give me, like, all, you know, any free food. Man, I got fed on every pod that I ate on. Bro, what's even crazy about that death row job is the lady that wrote me that bogus case and got me sent to G-Pod, the lieutenant that investigated that case. When I went back there and worked, he was the captain back there. And as soon as he saw me, and this had been some couple years now, as soon as he saw him,

he said, oh, fuck no. Hell no, you ain't working back here, motherfucker. He fucked me over. He let that bogus case fly. And I was like, man, come on, bro. Quit tripping, dog. And he's like, man, come holler at me real quick. But I don't know if you remember when I had told you before in the first podcast,

like when I went to closed custody and then I came all the way back to minimum custody, I had like a lot of respect from the laws because I stayed who I was all the way down there. I stayed with the blacks, stayed who I was, I didn't switch up, you know, I wasn't a whole, nothing like that. So he pulled me in his office and he was like, what's up, you're going to cause some problems back here? I said, bro, come on, dog. I was like, you know you smoke me on a bogus ass case. And he started laughing. He's like, are we cool?

I'm like, yeah, we're cool. I ain't tripping. I was like, just let me keep my job, bro. And he's like, all right, he's like, I'm going to let you do like what you want to do, but like no drugs or nothing, but you can move commissary. I'll give you the okay with my officer and everything else. And I was like, I bet. So he really gave me the pass to even be able to move back there. And then what's crazy?

Because I kept that job until I made parole and went home. On my Friday, which was his Friday, he brought me in free world food every fucking Friday. And I went in his office after my shift was over and I fucking ate either Burger King or McDonald's or Subway or whatever, like they would throw Christmas parties, Thanksgiving parties, birthday parties. He would always cut me off a big ass piece of cake or any of the turkey. Because death row, like, they basically abided by their own rules back there. So they had, like, a different way they could do things.

They really could get away with a lot more shit than what the GP laws could get away with. So, like, after we got done cleaning, they would send everybody home except for a choice few inmates. and I was one of the ones that they let stay back there because I would go help in the kitchen. That's how I was able to help with breakfast and make sure that nobody that a Muslim handled those dudes food or it was me that handled their food. And they know that I fucked with them

because the thing about blacks in prison is the thing about blacks and essays too, and you didn't see this with the whites. If there was like a racial riot, all that like Tango blast, Mejiklays, all that shit went away. If it was a race riot, all the SAs got down, just like with the blacks. If it was a race riot, you might see maybe some Muslims don't get involved or whatever,

I guess. But if it's a race riot, all the blacks are getting involved. So with me being in a black gang, if a Muslim wasn't on shift in that kitchen and I made that dude's tray, I would put like a little sticky thing on there. so they knew that I made their tray, so they knew that somebody safe was making their tray. So it wasn't poisoned or anything like that? Because they did do shit like that.

You heard about inmates poisoning people's food? Yeah, putting rats in their food, doing all types of shady-ass shit to their food, especially to Muslims, because Muslims be fucking, they write those grievances, dude. Like, they're writ writers. Like, Muslims are extremely disciplined in prison, and I'm sure that's probably anywhere you fucking go

in the United States. States. They read, they study, and they're very, they sharpen their intellect as much as possible. I mean, there's some dumb Muslims in there. Obviously, there's some stewheads. But the majority of them, in my experience, they fucking, they're on top of their game intellectually. So were there quite a few Muslims on death row? Yeah, there was a few on there. I don't know if they were free world Muslims, but like Muslim converts like, you know, in prison. Yeah, yeah, there was a few on there. Did they actually get drugs? Not you, but people in your similar position working on death row.

Would they get drugs or tobacco to death row inmates? Hell yeah. Yeah, them dudes are going to get fucked up back there if they can get it. If they can get fucked up. Yeah, they're going to get fucked up. Do you have to have cooperation from the guards to be able to get them food, contraband drugs, tobacco, etc? or is there a way for orderlies to actually smuggle in, keister in, shit? You can keister in.

You can, because they strip you in going in and going out. Every time. Every time. And then, like, right before I left, they started making you sit on a thing that would, like, X-ray you. But that was if they wanted to do it. Half the time when you would go behind the thing to strip out, you would just start taking your shit off and they'd be like, man, get your clothes back on.

Like, they wouldn't even fuck with you because they're just laid. they don't they wouldn't give a fuck so it isn't hard to get around laws to make something happen but at the same time like everybody wanted to work i think it was like a card because a a1 i think it was like a1 and a2 card so everybody wanted to work on a one card because the guards there were cool as fuck and let them do whatever they wanted and then the a two guard card was the police card which was the card i worked on but I actually liked working around police, the ones that were police, because the thing about the guards that are police,

they respect what is called a convict, an inmate who's quiet, who, they know you're up to something, but you're not putting it on front street, you're still doing your job. Like, I cleaned really well. I did my job really well. If they said, hey, Grisheimer, I need you go take care of this.

I'd be like, yes, sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, no ma'am. I showed them respect. I didn't talk bad to them. They asked me to do something. I fucking did it. You know, go here, go there. Yeah, yeah, I got you, bro. Let's take care of it.

And I took care of business. Like, I really cleaned because, like, they get those inspections. So, like, TDC, when they know that the, I forget what those people are called ACA. When ACA comes in to inspect, all of a sudden they want to do all this pristine fucking cleaning to pass inspection, even though they never fucking pass. but somehow they stay running. Fifth Row is always pristine. So, like, I always was on top of my game when it came to, you know, sweeping, mopping, waxing the floor,

shining the brass. Like, I did my job to a T. So if you do your job to a T, then the guards, they don't get no flak from the rank. It's because you're making them look good. So now I'm making you look good. So now in return, hey, bro, you fucked up if I, if I pass some socks today to make me a little money.

Man, Sam, go ahead, do your fucking thing. I don't give a fuck, bro. You're still going clean, right? I got you, motherfucker. Come on, motherfucker. You know what's up with me? Ah, yeah, bitch, woo. You play with them.

Come on, pussy-ass motherfucker. You know, shit like that. And I just, so to me, having the police laws around me and giving me the okay to do something was better than the friendly laws because there was always heat on that card because the rank knew what they were doing. so say all of a sudden the rank would just show up on the pod because they didn't do this

while you were mid-cleaning the rank would come down there hey all y'all come down here get out of them make everybody strip down and they would bust motherfuckers with shit so the police card you didn't have that type of heat because they knew that those laws weren't allowing shit to go on and if they did they knew it was heavily scrutinized so yeah you can get shit in that you can get shit around the motherfuckers all day long but you know to me it's just better to grease the wheels if you can grease the wheels okay so how many inmates total on death row when you were working i don't know honestly i think polonski was a 2,500 man unit and i think death row made it the 3,500 or 32 50 so i think it was like a thousand or some shit i mean what

you got A through F pod and then A through F section. So I think that's six, right, A, B, C, D, E, F. And then is it four or five cells to each section, top and bottom? So I think it's 10 cells to a section. So that's what 60 cells to a pod. And then you got six pods. So what is that $1,200 or something like that? Wow.

So there's a thousand plus inmates waiting to be executed in Texas at any given time. Yeah. Yeah. And then like F-P-P-Section on A-Pod, those were the guys who had their dates. And then there was a ritual with those guys the week that they were going to be executed, or it was the week or the day they were getting executed. The day before they let them, they open up the books for commissary for them to do whatever they want. And they would, I don't know if they still do this,

but they would buy everybody back there a pint of ice cream, even the laws. And everybody would eat a pint of ice cream back there. They'd find out how many people were back there, and they would buy a pint of ice cream for everybody, and they would bring the fucking, like they would make sure a Bluebell truck came because that was like a ritual back there.

The week that they were set to be executed. Yeah, it was like the day before or something like that. They would do the whole Bluebell ice cream thing, and everybody would get a pint of ice cream that one in one. And how many people on that A-wing that had actual dates, execution dates? It wasn't a lot at first, but then it was to be like, it was never filled up. I think the most I ever seen back there was like five or six. And how far in advance would the dates be would you hear?

I think it would be like within the month, for sure, within the month, a couple weeks. and they would be back there. And, dude, I can speak to that, like, that emotion, too. Like, a couple of guys that I was cool with that got executed back there. They were all lively and shit. And then, like, when they got their date and they were back there, they weren't even the same anymore. Half of them wouldn't even talk sometimes.

You'd come by, they'd shut their light off because they didn't want to talk to you. Like, that's how much they changed that quick. And when I'm talking about lively, I'm talking about, what's up, bro, working out like they weren't going to die. Like, living like tomorrow was guaranteed, like a date wasn't going to come. Because you got to realize before George Bush Jr. became governor, motherfuckers was living on death rowford. They weren't killing inmates like that.

But he fucking put like a fast track system in. These motherfuckers were killing motherfuckers. I think they made it to where their appeals got exhausted extremely quick. So dudes would run through all their appeals within a year or two years and would be dead within four years of being on death row, if even that. That's how fast he made it to where they were killing motherfuckers. They were killing motherfuckers quick back there.

And did you hear about working with all these inmates? Did you get to know about people's cases, like the reason that they got sent to death row? Not too much, bro. I didn't really want to cross those lines with people because those dudes on death row, hey, you really don't just get to ride with them like that. It depends.

It really depends if the cops are being stupid cool, like when E&J, when E&J, me and E&J would make food, me and E&J would talk. And he told me about when he shot the fool and killed the fool, I talked to him about his story. Can you tell us his story? I think he murdered a dude in the mall, if I'm not mistaken, coming down to escalator

because Fort Worth was like the murder capital of the United States at one point in time. They called it murder worth. And I think he was a stop six, which like a neighborhood said, I want to say he was stop six blood. And I want to say, like every time you would go to the mall back then, there would be shootings back in the 90s.

You looked the shit up. Nineties motherfuckers was getting killed for starter jackets, killed for Jordans. Like that's like, it would, back then, that's how it was. So when you went to the mall, it was dangerous. You know, if you were, you know, in those gang areas. And I want to say that's what he either smoked them on the escalator or coming down the stairs.

But I know he told me, like, when he shot him with the shotgun, I want to say it was a sawed off shotgun. He said he had it in his jacket. And he fucking popped that bitch out. He said he hit that fool. He said his fucking whole chest just like exploded. I mean, he was guilty for what he did. The only reason why he got off death row was because he was like, six. or something, and they changed the law, so they had to let him off and he got a life sentence.

So what do you think, what do you think the benchmark is, if any, between inmates who get life or basically life, hundreds of years on a murder case versus inmates who get sent to death row for murder cases? What do you mean by benchmark? Like, was the difference? Yeah, like, do you see any difference in people's cases between, ones who go in on life sentences for murder versus ones that are given the death penalty for murders. Well, as far as I know in Texas, as far as by the law, the only thing that's going to put you on death row usually is a capital murder case.

Because capital murder carries the death sentence where a regular first-degree murder doesn't carry the death sentence. So most of the dudes on death row, how they got those capital murder cases was obviously a robbery turned homicide. capital murder. I think it's like extenuating circumstances. Like if you tied them up or something because that's kidnapping. And then there was dudes on death row. You know what I'm saying?

Like my boy saw man like he was back there for killing inmates in prison. I think he killed like five inmates in prison and it was like the last one they got him for that put him on death row. Because I want to say he got like three or four life sentences for the other inmates he killed. and then the last one he killed, they gave him the death sentence.

So that, like, enhanced his thing. I see. If that answers your question. Yeah, so basically, if you commit another felony in the course of committing a first-degree murder, that's what elevates it to a capital murder case. Yeah, yeah, that's how they can probably ask for the death sentence. I think that's how that works here in Texas. Did you see any or get to know any death row inmates where you were like, oh, this guy's obviously a psychopath out of his mind?

Or did everybody seem kind of like normal to the extent that, you know, a person serving time for murder could be normal? Everybody I met back there was normal. Everybody. Not one person I met back there wasn't normal. Now there was a guy back there who used to like yell Bible verses every night, this black dude. But I think just being back there so goddamn, I mean, bro, like being confined to a cell like that, I told you even on close cussie, like I used to do crazy shit. I mean, you're sitting in this little fucking cell all fucking day long, bro.

There's only so many books you and jacking off and there's only so much fairy tale land you can live in before you're the hard set of you this is what you're fucking looking at like so like that takes the strongest of human beings to even stay fucking what you what is even saying and stay what is quote unquote even normal in those type of conditions on top of that you know that you're going to fucking die so you know your fate is for sure fucking sealed if you don't win these appeals and so he but even when he wasn't yet yelling of Bible verses, me and him used to talk one-on-one when we come through. He'd be like, what's up, Tim.

I'm like, hey, what's up, Tim. I'm like, hey, what's up, just chilling, man? I'm like, what's up? You ain't yelling no Bible verse tonight, fool? He's like, ah, man, I'm going to let y'all make it tonight. And he could change into a normal person. So, like, everybody in my experience, quote-unquote, was normal. You know, I mean, even my dude, Deuce, Deuce beat his case. I knew, so I knew Deuce when he was on death row. We didn't talk, but I knew who he was.

And then when I went back to the penitentiary and I got out and I went to the program, Deuce was in the program with me. He was on a Netflix series, I think on that Netflix series, I am a killer or something like that. So he got out. He did like almost 40 years in the joint total. How did he beat his case? I think it was the DNA evidence or something.

I can't remember. I could always hit him up and find out. So he was innocent? Yeah, he was innocent. He got out. He's on the streets. He got off a death row, and I think he got a life sentence, and then he beat the life sentence and got his shit dropped down,

and he made parole and got out. I think he only had like a few years left on parole or some shit. I could always hit him and talk to him, but I mean, I remember when we had got to the program together, the Carol Vance program, and he saw me, and I saw him. I was like, damn, I know that motherfucker. And then he was like, man, you Tim.

I was like, yeah, he's like, from Temple. I was like, yeah, he's like, used to be on Polonsky, right? I said, yeah, he's like, didn't you work on death row? I was like, yeah. He's like, you don't remember me? I was like, I remember your face, bro. And he's like, yeah, and I was like, damn, I was like, you got off the death row. Another dude named Dre, Dre from Houston.

He got off a death row and got his shit community to 99 years. And then they actually put him on. He came to medium custody with me on iPod. and then I think he got his shit dropped down. He got a time cut. So that's the thing about Texas when, I don't know if it's still like this. So they would give out all this big ass time back in the game, right? 300 years, whatever, all this stacked time.

And then after you did like 10, 15 years, you can apply for a time cut. Like, you might not beat your appeals, but you could apply for a time cut and they would give it to you. So I think he had got the 99 years and I think he got it commuted to like, like 60 or something like that. And he had already been locked up like over 20. So anything before 96, like if you got a life sentence before September of 1996, you only had to do 15 years before you saw parole.

So he even made parole on his case and got out on the streets because he was under the old law. So that's two people I know that were on death row that actually got off and got in the system and then made it home. Imagine going from I'm probably going to be executed by lethal injection to I'm in population

GP to oh wow now I'm back home I'm in society again you would never take shit for granted after that I don't think that you do I mean I know that as far as I know I know that uh I know at least in the system I know that Dre and Deuce had became like hardcore Christians. They were hardcore Christians.

Like, Deuce is a hardcore Christian right now still to this day. I mean, we're friends, we're friends on Facebook and Instagram. He's always in church. How many inmates were black versus Mexican versus white? Did you see more a disproportionate amount of a certain race on death row? Man, I didn't really pay attention to that. but I want it, if I'm not mistaken,

there was more white boys and blacks on death row with free world cases. If I'm not mistaken, at least the Mexican dudes that I talk to on a regular, they were on death row for killing people in prison. So most of the dudes that were back there that I can remember just thinking right off top, the majority of the dudes that were back there on death row

from the free world were white and black. The few Hispanics that were back there, I don't remember a lot of Hispanics being back there like that. But the ones that I know that I fucked with, they were back there for killing dudes in prison. And that would make sense because you told us that they were the ones

putting in the knife work. Yeah, they were putting in the knife work like a motherfucker, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, because back in the old days in Texas, you could kill somebody and they might give you 10, 15 years. But then, like, them ABT cats

and AC cats and then fucking, the T.S. and Mexican Mafia, they were killing so much back in the 80s and 90s. Eventually, you know, people got tired of, they got tired of the shit, you know, and they started giving them fucking life sentences, and then they're giving them, you know, death sentences and stuff like that for it. You said on Polanski, besides the death row unit, there's also, that's where the segregation is. That's where SEG inmates are? Yeah, they have SEG there on the same building.

So tell us about SEG. How big is it? I've heard it's mostly shot callers now. You know, high-ranking dudes from all of those sets. Yeah, yeah. Tell us about what that's like. Well, I think the majority of them are probably like on Gibb Lewis, what they call like high security.

Like that's what they'll call it. That's where they ship most of like the SEG motherfuckers that get SEG. I think the majority of them are probably like on Gibb Lewis SEG. Every unit has like a segregation, like 11 building Ph.D. pre-hearing detention. They have SEG back there, and that doesn't mean you're going to fucking stay there. Just like on Polonski, you got SEG on death row on F-Pod. I think some might have been on E-Pod, but it was, a lot of the times they didn't stay there. They got shipped off to Gibb Lewis or, like, Darrington or Colfield.

I think Colfield has a decent size SEG. but if I'm not mistaken, Gibb Lewis has the biggest SEG. And they lived the same way that death row guys lived. It was the same cell fucking same bullshit wreck, no TV, fucking no nothing, fucking the exact same fucking conditions. The exact same conditions. And did you spend time in SEG yourself? No, I mean, I did like PhD time and shit.

it was extremely hard to get segged up when I was in prison. So, I mean, I did time in Ph.D., like pre-hearing detention and stuff like that for fighting my cellies, like a couple of cellies I got into fights with and stuff like that. Like, not all of them I talked about. And they take you to lock up. They took both of us to lock up and, you know, you sit back there a week or two weeks, whatever, 10 days. And then they let you out and then you go wherever the fuck you go after that.

But I never did no seg time. I mean, the closest thing I did to seg was closed custody. Oh, so you've got to be a pretty rowdy motherfucker to actually go to SEG. You're not just going to get sent there for a fist fight. No, hell, no. You're going to be sent there for staff on. Dude, so when I was in prison the first time, like I said, it was real, like, realistic, where now they'll lock the pod down for three days for a fucking one-on-one fight.

Like, they do that shit on purpose because they know if you fight, me and you fight over a dumb ass football game. We didn't got the pod lockdown. And then what's crazy is they'll keep you in there. So they won't even take you to lock up. They'll keep you in there. So then when they come off a lockdown, now you got all these other fucking inmates ready to fuck y'all up

because you don't got the goddamn pod lockdown over two soups or some shit. So now they, basically they're making it to where it's creating more drama. I see the psychology behind it. But back then, I think you might be able to get to seg a little bit easier these days. Maybe, I'm not for sure, because it's softer. But I know back in when I was locked up the first time,

I seen a motherfucker hit a motherfucker with a hot pot boiling hot pot water and go to close custody and not even get segged up. He hit them with baby oil. So we have like the hot pots. They call them hot pots. They're clear now. They look like a pitcher, like a tea kettle pitcher, like tall like that. so you can get the bottom, when you get the bottom taken off,

it has this bullshit screw. It used to have a real screw, but it has like this bullshit screw, but motherfucker's so created, they can get that screw off. So then the heating mechanism, you can rig it to where the hot pot boils. So it's not just hot water, it'll boil.

So there was a white dude who came in. He had, I think, like three or five years. he walked in like no lie this is like some straight up movie shit he came in put his stuff off the pod came and put his stuff in the day in his cell came out walked over to this crick dude was fucking sliced up he had his shirt off just standing there he walked up to him and i guess i told him hey i'll pay you whatever a week or each store day because i'm just trying to go home and he had like three or five years, bro. So the Crip dude was like bet.

So the Crip dude just like, and this Crip dude was a crash dummy. He was a loser. You could give him a kilo of cocaine and he'd fuck it off and make everything. Like he was just a fuck-off artist. He was, his own homies didn't even like him, bro. Like he was a gambling junkie.

If they gave him like hygiene or anything, they would take the plastic. You know, when you buy a new deodorant and you pull the top off, there's that plastic there. They had take that plastic off and put it under their underarm. and give it to him because he would go and sell it or something so he could gamble.

He was one of those type of dudes, never had nothing bum-ass motherfucker. So he lucked up on his white boy, and the white boy starts paying him, a white boy from Dallas. And his dad was like, he was really from Philly because I got cool with him because he was, he was stupid fucking cool. So, but his dad was like some type of big-ass banker, but he had money. And he was, I remember he was a Jew. and I used to fuck with him because he was a Jew and shit like that.

I used to just joke with him and shit, but he was cool as fuck. So anyways, long story short, he was on the pod maybe about 90 days. This black dude used to punk him. He had grabbed his mail, start reading his mail, all this type of shit.

So one day Tom was sitting at the table playing chess. And the black dude, this is why I say it like it's like a movie because you couldn't get no weirder than this. He comes over to him he had already been threatening him like the past week that he was going to start selling him like letting dudes be like bone him and shit he came over and put his dick on his shoulder

and i remember my home boy who was a cripp we used to sit on the wall and talk a lot i was like bro you need to say something to that fool dog like like he letting him handle that dude like that you know like that's stupid that dude's good money he's going to wind up catching out because at this time pria had already became effect so you could try to catch out so if you got to caught extorting somebody they could give you some time. Like my homeboy from Dallas, they gave him 99 years for extorting a dude for for prostituting him. That dude went and said he got raped.

They did the rape kit. They found DNA in them. And they gave him 99 years in Polk County for selling that dude. So anyways, he put his dick on his dude's shoulder. And the dude was like, man, what the fuck, Tom? Bro. This guy's so stupid. He just walked off like nothing even happened, didn't even pay attention.

This is what I was trying to tell you, like the psychology of people. Like some people aren't built to fight. Some people are only built to kill. Some people are, you know, only built to fight. They're not built to kill. This dude wanted to pay protection because he knew what he was, what he was about to do. This motherfucker goes in his cell because he gets his door popped because I told you get your door popped easy over there.

Tom? Yeah, Tom, goes in his cell. This guy's not even paying attention. He goes over to the domino table and starts playing fucking dominoes. This motherfucker goes into the fucking, his cell, puts the towel up on the door, fills the fucking hot pot up with baby oil, fucking magic shave, which, you know, magic shave is like what black people use. They put it on their hair because they get razor bumps.

And it like burns the skin. It makes this stinky-ass smelling. And they, like, scratch it off. And it just pulls off all the hair on their face. So he put magic shave and fucking baby-waxeuvre. in the hot pot and brought it to a boil. Left his door open the whole time because he told the law when she hit the button.

She's like, what's up? He's like, hey, can you pop myself? Could I use the restroom? He's like, I'm going to leave it open because I'm going to come back out. He's like, I just got to take a crap. And she's like, yeah, do your thing. He goes in there, fucking pops his shit.

This dude's a horse jockey. It's how big he is. He's like 90 pounds, 5 foot two little skinny ass white boy. Like he could have been a horse jockey. That's why I used to fuck what I'm up. He should have been a horse jockey, bro. this motherfucker comes out. So me and my homeboy Joe, who's out now,

we're sitting on the wall and we're talking. And I said, I said, bro, I saw the look in that dude's face. I saw the blankness in his fucking eyes, bro. And I looked, I said, man, that fool's about to do something. And he's like, let's watch that motherfucker. So we're sitting on the floor on the wall where the vent is. They had sold these big ass bags. They called it penny candy.

They were kind of soft on the inside. So we're eating penny candy and we had just got done smoking a joint. So we're sitting there all bloated and shit. eating penny candy drinking coffee and we're looking he's in two row goes in his cell when he comes out i see the black cord wrapped around his arm and he's got his towel dripped over his arm and i was like oh that fool got the goddamn hot pot bro home boy sitting there playing dominoes he's holding his dominoes like this he's got his back to us this fool comes down the fucking stairs bro comes down the whole time he walks straight past and this dumb fuck's not even paying attention

as he comes around him like this he fucking uh takes the towel off his fucking arm and comes around and just fucking hook shot him straight in the face. Boom! Blasted that motherfucker and the fool had his shirt on. This motherfucker jumps up like a, like sounds like the wicked witch of the goddamn West. He was like, fucking takes off running, rips his fucking shirt off when he rips his shirt off because all that shit went down his shirt. It pulled off all his skin. He just saw a fucking pink red flesh. He when he grabbed his face, like he grabbed his face, he pulled skin off his face and fucking Tom was just walking around the fucking day room.

I told you motherfuckers don't fuck with me. I just wanted to go home. I fucking kill you. He's just going ballistic. And I was like, fuck, fool. And then fucking Tom went over there and started hitting the button. And that dude's running around the fucking day room.

His homies are grabbed him trying to calm him down. And he's saying on the pod, get me up out this motherfucker for I kill him. And then he went to lock up. He was gone for a minute. And then I thought they shipped him. And then one day I was going over to the infirmary to fall out of place to holler at my homeboy on medium custody. Because like the infirmary, like you can link up with people in the infirmary and chop it up.

So like that's a good spot to link up with people. Like you got a homie on medium custody. Like, hey, or maybe you're trying to shoot him something. You guys will fill out I-60s the infirmary to try to meet up in the infirmary at the same day so you can fucking make something happen. So I was in the infirmary out of place. and then I seen them bring Tom in from close custody because everywhere would they take you, they have to escort you

so the dude's got his hand behind his back and the guards got the goddamn stick and shit and they bring him in and we're sitting in the infirmary and I look and I see Tom come in. I'm like, damn Tom, what's up, baby? He's like, what's up, Tim? I was like, you're all good?

He's like, hell yeah, I'm good. And I was like, ain't nobody fucking with you down there? He said, fuck, no, ain't nobody fucking with me. He's like, shit, they better not fuck with me. He's like, I'll fucking turn his motherfucking five into a 99. So I guess they didn't even give him any more time.

But that's the type of shit I'm talking about. Oh, and I forgot to sell, you remember how you would talk about like, Chow, you always heard Chow was no man's land. And Texas prison, church is no man's land. Because that's where all the gangs meet up to talk. So that's neutral. That's neutral grounds.

You don't make anything pop off in the church. Yeah, so nothing will pop off. Even if there's some type of gang tension, racial tension, gang, even like other gangs, they'll go to church to talk out and maybe hash some, shit out. So church is neutral grounds in prison. I thought about that yesterday. So I figured I would tell you that. So this kid, Tom, was being harassed so bad by this guy, this knucklehead, that he just scarred him permanently with scalding hot, water and lotion and baby oil. And the

laws didn't even charge him. Didn't charge him. Now, that dude was shipped off. That dude, I never saw him again. When they took him to medical, maybe his burns were so. fucking bad. They just put him on a medical unit because he probably had to go back to the hospital several fucking times. There's no telling. But do you think something like that could give somebody third degree burns? Fuck baby oil. And magic shave, magic shave already burns. So like when black dudes they put it on, it just stinks because it's burning the hairs. It's like pulling out the follicles and shit, I guess. You know what I'm saying? It's like that nair shit for women. and women can put an air on and they just wash the hair off, it burns it off.

And then you're talking about boiling fucking baby oil and launching that on somebody's skin. Fuck, dude. Man, he probably got third degree. Whatever the worst burns are is probably what he got. Because I'm talking about when he ripped his shirt off, you should have seen all this flesh rip off his back. Like, dude. To your knowledge, did anybody ever mess with Tom again?

Hell, not that I know about. I mean, he said he was good on Closed Custy. I'm sure he was. Last question. How you've been home a few years now. How has death row and conditions inside Texas prisons, how has it changed, if at all? It's gotten worse. It's gotten worse.

With the water, the food. the cleanliness of the environment, the heat. It's gotten worse. Like Texas used to be like self-sufficient. They fed their in a, like when I went to prison the first time, they fed fucking good, bro. But then right before I had got to prison, it had just ended. I'll look this shit up and send it to you.

This is how fucked up these motherfuckers are, bro. They were getting, it's a horse feed substitute called Vitapro. They were, they got called. with all this Vitapro, this shit had happened in like 98, 99, but I think it was going on longer than that. They were mixing the, it stretches food. They figured out it could stretch food. So they were putting a horse vitamin or a horse something in the food feeding it to inmates in the beef. And they said it had this strong-ass stench. And they said it was making inmates walk around looking like Ethiopians with big ass pop bellies. And it was killing inmates. And they was killing inmates.

They fucking, dude, they got in a bunch of fucking trouble for that shit. I missed that era. I want to say they all got popped in like 98, 99. But it was still talked about heavily when I got there, the whole Vitapro scandal. So when I got there, they fed good. Like every lunch was a dessert. You got hooked up on the tray. Dude, it was fed stupid good.

Now down there, bro, they don't feed worth the fuck. Like commissary is necessary. Like those trays, those slots on the tray that are all supposed to be filled up, they're not. You'll go down there and get, they call it a meat rock. It's a ball of meat with some rice in it and maybe some carrots for lunch. And that's it. Like the laws are stealing everything. Like, I was at Torres Unit and there's a grocery store here in Texas called H.E.B.

So H.E.B. Donates a lot of food to the prisons in the San Antonio era. so we had get an H.E.B. diesel truck every week full of fucking cakes, pastries, ice cream, cheese, all types of shit. The fucking kitchen commissary lady, when it was coming in the front door, it was going out the front, or when it was coming in the back door, it was going out the front. They were selling that shit out on the streets and weren't even giving it to us. They were fucking selling all of that fucking free world shit that H.E.B. was donating to us. like just the whole thing is fucked up bro like and they expect people to to come home and the thing is is everybody on the outside thinks that it's going good in there and they're taxing the taxpayer all this money they're teaching the exact same uh classes like this class called changes you take to like try to make look good and go to parole like they're teaching the same stuff in changes now that they were teaching in 2000 when i went there Like, they don't even update the information.

And then they, like, when I went to prison the first time, used to have a case manager. But that's because it was called TDC, Texas Department of Corrections. That's why you have to pay attention to wording, bro, in the legal world. So when it said Texas Department of Corrections, that means legally by law, they had to correct you. So, like, you had to go work or go to school. You had to change.

You had a caseworker, a caseworker that saw you usually every month or every 90 days. Hey, how you doing? Well, have you tried this? Have you done that? Hey, how about we put you in school? Oh, they test your IQ. You need to take it. You got your GED?

I do. Yeah, well, you need schooling because your IQ is pretty low. We need to get you. This is how you're going to succeed in the world. They don't have none of that no more because now it's called TDCJ, Texas Department of Criminal Justice. So now all they got to do is howls you. They don't care about education. educating you. They don't care about

trade. They don't care. It's just a fucking joke. And the taxpayers are the one foot in the fucking bill. And they think that it's all going to help people and it's not. They're cutting the fucking water off. I can send you all the articles when I leave here. I'll do it so you can post it. Where there's no fucking

water. Inmates are dying, fucking damn there every day. And they're saying it's K2. That the K2's killing them. Like motherfuckers come up dead every day. There's no ACs. The law are on the lawsuits for the A-Cs. The food is like fucking horrible.

It's, dude, it's, it's unexplainable conditions, dude, for a first world country, for that type of behavior. And you don't change people with that type of behavior. You only make them worse. You make a person worse with that type of condition. If they already come from nothing and you expect them to change, then why are you making them? live like that with dude it's so hot in there bro like literally especially on the red bricks like i did

it because i had never been on a red brick before and that program i was at was on a red brick we took water and because you could see the steam coming off the red brick because those clays it's like a clay brick oven it holds heat really well you fucking you could see steam coming off the wall we threw fucking water on that dish and it sizzled that's how fucking hot it was like you could not lean up against that wall with your raw back. That's, come on, dog, that's like living in Africa or some shit. Like, you don't treat people like that. Yeah, I mean, not if you want them to change.

It's, dude, you got these dudes breathing in fecal matter, bro. Boyle's coming out of their skin. My boy, Justin, he still has gastro problems. Like his stomach is stupid fucking big, bro, from being on, he was on, I think, McConnell, and breathing in shit for a week at a time. them not flushing the toilet for a week at a time, breathing in shit and piss. Like, that ain't, that ain't right, dog. That ain't, that, not, and then you're making the taxpayers pay for it.

Like, that, you got everybody thinking that they're living, you know, good, and they're coming home fucked up because they're fucked up people. That, that's, it's not, it's not like that. And I'm not a prison advocate because there's dudes in there that need to be in there. But there's a lot of good dudes in prison that if they just had, maybe somebody believing in them or something like that, that they would do better. I mean, even when you come home,

your parole officer are supposed to help you get a job. They don't fucking help you get no job. And I mean, I got a cool PO. But bro, like, they don't fucking help you. You come home and they give you a fucking $100. You've been locked up 10, 15 years. The motherfucker can give you $100 until you fucking good luck. The fuck.

And then that dude goes and, fucking rob somebody and then you make him look bad, what the fuck you expected him to do? You didn't even offer them no goddamn system. You're taking everybody's fucking money. And you don't even offer them a way to fucking change. And then you wonder why your society's fucked up. So I'm going to send you the art.

I'm going to send you the shit, bro. I'll send it to you today. When I get home, I'm going to send you a bunch of shit so you can post like updated shit on how fucked up it is. And it's not right, dog. It's, if you got family commissaries necessary, That's all I can tell you, bro. They're not even giving them chemicals to wash the fucking trays, Johnny.

I would go to Chow when I was there, bro, and the trays, you would just see, like, you know, like oil. If you just say, like you've whipped some creaks right here and drop water on it, how you can see the film and you see the water beat it up on top of it. That's what the trays are like, because the officers are taking the fucking bleach and the DWC home with them to their fucking house. And not even giving it to the inmates. that's how scandalous it is and it's full of fucking rats. Rats running everywhere. You got to take a piece of something like maybe a flip-flop if you can get one and cut it because like when you have the locker that goes so the piece of steel that comes out,

you put the lock in it so it can the locker can open up about that much and rats will get in your locker and steal your soups and shit. So people put stuff behind there to lock it to keep fucking rats out of your, it's infested with rats. So, TDC is a fucking joke, dog. And that's probably a good thing, because that's one of the things that broke my fucking criminal mind frame

was seeing how bad it had gotten, the living conditions that I was just like, I can't, that's probably one of the reasons why I said, I can't do this. No fucking more. I can't live like, it's not getting better, it's getting worse. Worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.