The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Texas Prison Gang Leader On Being White In An All-Black Gang, Saying The N-Word

Episode Date: June 7, 2026

This is Part 1 of a five-part miniseries on Tim Griesheimer's life. Tim is by far one of the most popular guests we've had on the show, so this series dives even deeper into his life featuring new stories about gang life, prison, identity, trauma, and redemption. In this episode, Tim shares the early chapters of his life, from growing up in an abusive household to finding acceptance in the streets, gang culture, and eventually prison. Tim opens up about what it was like being white while running with mostly Black friends and Blood gang members, how racial dynamics differed between Ohio and Texas, and the controversy around using the n-word. He also describes childhood violence, early crime, carrying guns as a kid, shootouts, and how he became drawn to the outlaw lifestyle before his first prison sentence. Topics include: -Growing up in Ohio and Texas -Childhood abuse and street life -Being white around Blood gang members -Saying the n-word and facing consequences -Early gun violence and shootouts -Racial tension in Texas -First experiences with prison politics -Finding identity through crime and gang culture Go Support Tim! IG: https://www.instagram.com/tattoos_bykriminalkustoms/ This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: Hims! To get simple, online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/connect Prescription required. See website for details and important safety information. Sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra®. Viagra® is a registered trademark of Viatris Specialty LLC. Hims is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris. Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow 00:00 From a Troubled Home to the Streets 01:01 Introducing Tim Griesheimer's Story 04:47 Connecting with People and Early Social Traits 07:09 Nature vs. Nurture and Developing an Outlaw Mentality 10:27 Embracing the Streets: Stealing and Early Crimes 13:01 Fighting, Survival, and Street Cred 17:08 Shootouts and Guns at a Young Age 21:12 Gang Affiliations: Bloods, Crips, and Neighborhood Politics 25:48 This Episode Is Sponsored By Hims 27:38 Reflecting on Gang Life, Family Bonds, and Military Ambitions 33:13 Childhood Abuse and Family Trauma 36:50 Violence at Home and Resentment Toward Parents 41:13 Cycles of Abuse: Family History 43:14 Moving Between States & Unstable Upbringing 45:27 Culture Shock: Racial Dynamics in Texas vs. Ohio 48:00 Experiencing Prejudice from Both Black and White Communities 50:01 First Time Going to Prison – Facing Reality 54:01 Arrival at the Most Dangerous Texas Prison 56:11 Navigating Prison Politics and Racial Pressure Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I didn't have really any love in the house, and then me and my brother didn't get along, so I found that love in the streets. I wanted to be an outlaw. I wanted to go to jail. Like, I wanted that. I had never been called a white boy. I had never heard that language. I was around bloods all the time.

I grew up with bloods. All my homies are bloods. I was in a few shootouts. I wasn't afraid to pop that pistol. When I went to prison, I was like, now I'm rolling with the big boys now. This week, Tim Griceheimer returns to the podcast. In case you missed his past viral appearance, Tim G is a former blood gang member and a drug trafficker who spent a decade inside of the most brutal maximum security prisons in Texas.

When he got out, he became a major meth distributor for the Sinaloa cartel and moved thousands of pounds of weed from Arizona to Ohio, where he was also attempting to break into the rap game. He ended up going back to prison where he became a certified Muslim, took his shahada, and finally retired. from the life of crime. This is the first interview of a five-part mini-series we're doing about Tim's life, with brand-new stories you haven't heard before.

You can get the other episodes early and uncensored over at patreon.com slash the Connect show. Ladies and gentlemen, one of the most fascinating and requested guest we've ever had on this podcast, it's the great and powerful Tim Greisheimer right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. Hey, everyone, I need your help. YouTube is once again suppressing my videos. So before we get this episode started today, please do me a huge favor and just quickly hit that like button. And of course, subscribe to the channel if you haven't already.

It helps get the video out to so many more people. I really appreciate it. Enjoy Tim Greisheimer. Thank you. I like connecting with people and building with people and shit like that. Have you always been like that? Well, I've always been that type of person. And people have always said it since I was young.

Like I was somebody like when I walked into somewhere, people always like, they said I attracted attention. Like, remember when I told you that I used to come to the strip club down here all the time? So like sometimes when I'd come down here, I'd hit the strip club first just to see what was going on. And then I would leave and I'd go to downtown. And I remember there was a stripper. She was a, I think she was Colombian or else. She was something from Central South America named Coco. And I remember when I got up to leave, she was like, where are you going? I was like, we're going down to 6th Street real quick to go check it out. And then she's like, man, I hate when you leave. And I'm like, why? And she's like, because

when you leave, it seems like you take the party with you. So I've always been the type of person, either people just don't like me for no reason or they really want to fuck with me. So like probably like 98% of the time, people really want to fuck with me. And 2% of the time, people just don't, they just don't like me. Like, they don't want to associate with me and stuff like that. But I've always been like that. I've always liked the network and connect with people because I believe as humans, that's what we're supposed to do. I've always been a deep thinker, bro.

I mean, my IQ is 136. Like, I'm not stupid. I'm far from dumb as fuck. Like, I got a lot of fucking snap. But I'm also just down to going to hell with dynamite draws on if that's what needs to be. Like, that's the type of, I'm a fucking, goddamn Billy the Kid, Wild Bill Hickcock type motherfucker. Like, if it comes to that, then I'm willing to do that type shit.

Do you think that's nature? Do you think that's, you inherited that or that was from your childhood? Well, I think I inherited it because I would say it came from my childhood, but I think a lot of it is inherited because my bloodline is like Eastern German. and I can trace my lineage all the way back to the barbarians that fought against the Roman Empire. So I think that deep down warrior spirit of not wanting to be conquered or told what to do, I think that's always, I've always been defiant

ever since I was a kid. You know, always, my mom even said that, like, if I showed you pictures of me as a little kid, I just have that, like, that look about me where I'm like, I'm willing to be defiant. Like even when I had friends that were like good kids and I'd go to their house, their parents didn't like them hanging out with me because they said I had a look about them. But they liked when I came over because I was always very respectful and I cleaned up after myself

and stuff like that. If they like fed me, I'd go wash dishes. But they just said there was a look about me that was defiant. But also I think it was nature and nurture, right? Like nature as, and it was in my genetics, my guys. DNA, but nurture also growing up in Columbus, Ohio, and Springfield, Ohio, where it's rough and rugged and seeing that crime outside my house, I think it just, it propelled me to lean towards it because I liked that outlaw mentality, like growing up watching like young guns or, you know,

any of the movies I always rooted for the bad guys, like, and then seeing it outside, that outlaw mentality was what, you know, being a, it definitely attracted me. And plus, I think also like growing up in an abusive home, not using it as an excuse, but growing up in an abusive home, like, like my first stepdad, you know what I'm saying, was abusive. Like, he wasn't even abusive towards my brother. He was only abusive towards me, but then like when my mom broke up with him, like my mom was also that way. Like she was more mentally abusive towards me. So I didn't have really any love in the house. And then me and my brother didn't get along. So I found that love in the streets in that outlaw mentality. So I think I was built for it by nature and my genetics. Because there's

people that grow up in the hood, but they never jump off the fucking porch. So you can be from the hood, but you didn't do hood shit. So you ain't hood, so shut up. But there's people that are from the hood. And there's people that aren't even from the hood that can come to the hood and do hood shit because they're just built for it. And I think I was just, it was nature and nurture.

I was built for it. That's just what it was. And the nurture part was the streets. And it just cultivated me to become more criminalized in that aspect. You know, we used to refer to cats like you in the 90s as a wigger, right? Yeah. But coming from Ohio and the black neighborhood you grew up in, were you considered a wigger or were you just a guy from Ohio? Just a guy from Ohio. Yeah, it's normal. You know, it's weird,

bro, because like, like back in the day when I saw like, like, when I grew up, like, when I saw, like, like, the racial mixing, like, or like, like, say, like white chicks with black dudes or black dudes with white chicks, like I considered it normal or white dudes who acted like me, I considered it normal, but now when I see it as an older person, like I just see it as people trying to be cool like, like, how rap is like the dominant music.

So like, okay, so I met white dudes who would be like, I ain't white, and they would use the N word, I'm a such such, you know, I'm a nigger. And it's like, I would look at them like, bro, you're not that, bro, you're white. Like, I never acted like that.

So, like, when people called me a wigger, like, especially in prison, like, my first turn in prison, like, I was, that good old boy system you hear about in Texas, like, I was really subjugated to that. Like, I was fucked over, like, and, you know, we'll get into that. But, like, you know, no, in Ohio, to answer your question, no, I was just a regular white dude. I was one of them. Did your black friends use the N-word?

Did they let you throw that? around. Okay, so when I was younger coming up in the 90s in Ohio, like where I grew up at, black dudes did not use that word hardly ever. Now, when I went back up there later on, yes, they did. But when I came down to Texas, Texas was actually the first time I had really heard black people use the N-word like that. And besides like hearing it in rap from like Cali or whatever. Like, in Ohio, when I was a kid, people used other words to show that type of affection towards their friend. They didn't just throw the N-word around. Like, that was kind disrespectful at that time. Terminology, at least where I grew up at, I can't speak for

everywhere else, but where I grew up at, even a black dude at the time in the early 90s, calling another black dude, the N-word was, they considered it like, disrespect. So I didn't really hear it thrown around that much, I should say. That's fascinating. So it's not like Cali. No, no, no, no, no. It wasn't. I mean, they use it so predominantly now. Now when I came to Texas, you know, it was different. The N-word was thrown around a lot. I picked it up and started using it. I still use it to this day. If I get on the phone right now, I call up one of my homeboys I grew up with. As soon as I answer, I can call them right now. When I pick up the phone, he's going to answer the phone. He's going to be like, well, up and he's going to call me the N-word.

And then I might talk regular for a second, but then after that, I kind of will fall back into that way of how we used to be, and I'll say it. But even when I was younger and I used to say, if we were in groups, I was very conscientious that certain black people don't want to hear people that aren't black use that word. So I tried not to let it slip. Did you ever have to fight over it? Did anybody take it the wrong way ever and try to fade with you? Yeah.

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Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Yeah, a couple times. times, one time in Temple on the east side, we were down there and shooting dice and stuff like that. And people, I was just talking and I just kind of forgot where I was at because I stayed on the south side. So the east side and the south side kind of beefed, but we were over there because my home boy had family over there. And I let it slip talking and had to fight behind it. Me and a, uh, we're actually, well, he's passed away now, but, uh, me and a guy fought behind it because he was like, why, boy, what are you doing?

And I thought we was cool because we went to school together, but we weren't and I got my ass whooped. Yeah, I got, I got beat up. I got, I got beat up pretty bad, but. Hmm. Yeah, I got fucked up. He hit hard and the motherfucker. Cedric. He hit hard as a motherfucker. It seems like you weren't afraid to lose fights. No, no, no, no, because I always looked at it as as long as I got out there, that's all that mattered. Like, as long as I got out there, that's, that's, that's all that mattered. So, I mean, but I wasn't stupid when I fought, like, I would watch Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris or Jean-Claude Van Damme,

um, Stephen Seagall, the Rocky movies. And I would always shadow box a lot in the house, like, I like, I like, I like, I, like to have friends, but I also like time by myself. So like I'd be in the backyard trying moves and stuff like that. And then like say me and my friends would hang out because I was so down to fight, we'd either go to apartments to play football and then I would try those moves out. So I wanted to fight. Like I wanted to be known for that, especially like even in Ohio or like well in Texas, there wasn't too many white dudes hanging out with the people that I hung out with. So I wanted to be known as I was about that life.

Like I wanted to be known that I was hard. So, yeah, I wasn't afraid to lose because, and I didn't really lose that much. Like watching those movies helped me, like, actually become a good fighter, like, mimicking what I could see. And I was about to, I was about, because you have to. realize I grew up in the 90s, so like white dudes in black neighborhoods got jumped. They got their starter jackets took. They got their nice shoes took. I didn't have any of that stuff really because I was poor, but I did have a couple of starter

jackets that I got. And I wasn't getting my shit took. So, you know, I was one of those people that if you, if I even felt like you were a threat in that situation, I just spurred off on you. I'm going to get the jump on you and I'm not stopping until. somebody pulls me off or something like that. So yeah, I wasn't afraid to lose because I felt that physical violence. If you knew I was about, if I was down to be physical, like that fear, you're going to be like,

that's what predators look for. I didn't know this till later on, but that's what they look. That's what they look for weakness, bro. So if you're not weak, then they're like, I ain't going to fuck with him. Like, it's not going to happen. It's almost like you were preparing yourself for prison, your whole childhood. I was, dude, and I realized that later on, like, I idolized going to jail. Like, I, I was, dude, my first day in prison, I wasn't even scared.

That's what was crazy. Like, I was scared, I guess. Obviously, I was fearful, but when I was a kid growing up, everybody was going to juvenile, like, everybody was going to prison, guys were coming home, and I never made the juvie step. But I always thought that that was dope. and like guys coming home from prison. And then like, I remember one day I came home from school in the 90s. And my old stepdad, he had, I think it was like a Time magazine or something,

and it had John Gotti on the front of it. And then later on that night we were watching the news. And we had like one of the old TVs, like the TVs with like the wood box frame television or whatever. And John Gotti had come out of court. and they were calling them like the tap dapper don or something. And I remember I asked my stepdad, I was like, uh, who is that? What is he?

And he's like, he's a big mobster. And he's a big, you know, criminal figure in New York. And I remember when I saw that, like that just like captivated me. I wanted to be an outlaw. I wanted to go to jail. Like I wanted, I wanted that. So when I finally did go to jail when I was 17, I was more scared going in the county than I was going to prison.

because when I went to prison, I was like, now I'm rolling with the big boys now. This is like a test. So, I mean, I know I was scared, but deep down, I think it was something that I wanted, honestly. What age did you jump off the porch? Were you in Ohio when you first started kind of rocking and roll? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I started stealing when I was eight. Like, we started stealing when we were eight. And then when I got a little bit older, there would be like dealers that would send us to go do like little licks and stuff for them or we would hold dope for them because they would always say we wouldn't go to jail, we wouldn't get any trouble. So I was eight when I started stealing and I might have been like 10 or 11 when I would like be out on the block holding drugs and stuff like that. And then in Texas like it was the same way like when I was 12, 13, like we were already hitting licks getting guns. I was, shit, I was packing my first gun when I was 11, 10 or 11. I remember it was like

the little 22 or 25 that looked like the barretas, like the little barretas. I had a little clip in it. I think it held like five and then you could hit the button in the middle and the middle barrel popped up and you could put a bullet right there and pop it down. I had one of them joints. I thought I was hard to bitch. Did you ever bust in anybody? Oh yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah, for sure, all the time. I was wild with that pistol. Guaranteed. I got into a shootout right before I got the week I got locked up when I was 17.

I had two pistols on me. I had that 38 snub nose I had told you about before in the first interview. And then I had like, I think it was one of those German pistols. It was the weird shape, the old school, like World War II pistols with the skinny nose. The weird funny handle, I had one of them joints. and this dude was chasing after us because he tried to rob me for a brick of weed and I ran and jumped in the car

he started following after us so my chick was driving and then my fall partner was in the back seat and I was like go to it cut back here cut back here to this neighborhood and then when we came and like dead in and it went up this way and I was like as soon as we start coming down the hill

stop the car and I'm going to get out and I remember I stopped that when she stopped the car. I've learned this later on. I mean, it probably still could have happened, but I, like, jumped out the car and I, like, busted the pistol sideways. Like, that shit was cool. And I remember I hit that hole three times. Boom, boom, boom. And when I got to the third time, it stopped shooting. And I didn't know what was going on. And then this dude just leaned out, like, popped his driver door, and he just popped his hand over and he started thumping, poof, foo, foo, foo,

and I just dove back in her car. She had a Mustang. And I was like, I was like, take off. She I think it was like a 97 Mustang, a red one with the white ragtop. So she took off. And I looked down at the pistol and the shell was stuck in the slide. So, yeah, I was in a few shootouts. I wasn't afraid to pop that pistol. Did you ever get hit? No, no, no.

No, I only almost got shot one time and that was in Ohio in 99. It was funny, crazy, right? Some blood dudes tried to shoot me. Yeah. It's ironic, huh? Because I was wearing my hat the wrong way. Because, like, I told you, like, an Ohio cocking your hat, like, wearing your hat like this. Like, that still means something up there.

And I stayed in a Crip neighborhood. So I was wearing my hat to respect the neighborhood that I was in. And I was coming home from school. But I had moved to California from 96 to 99. So when I came to Texas, I mean, when I went back to Ohio, I had lived around a bunch of bloods in Cali. So I was rocking red dickies or red Ben Davis's with like the little monkey on them and shit like that.

And Chuck Taylor's, you get like two for 50 at the SWAT meet in South Central. And, you know, that's when Chuck's were cheap. But as soon as I got there and my real father picked you up from the place, He was all like, you can't wear none of that shit. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, now where I stay at, he's like,

we got to go get you new clothes. He's like, you ain't going to make it a week. So I had my hat one way, and then my homeboy bike was like, turn your hat. And as soon as I turned my hat, some blood dudes in a white acura had pulled up at the Cross Street and they looked at us and they just started shaking their head like that. And I looked at, I was like, who the fuck are them fools? And he's like, oh.

And he was a Crip. So he's all slob-ass motherfuckers. Ooh. And his dad was a Crip? No, no, no. My whole boy Mike was a crib. Yeah, Italian Mike, that's what they called him. Little white dude super stocky, not straight knockout power.

He's all slob-ass motherfuckers. And they pulled off. So the next day, bro, I'm walking home by myself. And when I get to that same crossroad, them dudes just so happened to pull there. And when I stopped and I looked at them, they're just shaking their head at me. And I was already making a name for myself on that block. in East Terrace. It's called the hilltop. The neighborhood's called the hilltop in west side Columbus, Ohio. You can look it up. And unless they've taken it down, there's like a train

track that goes over and you go over to the train track and there's words that say hilltop right there, kind of like what the Hollywood sign, but not big like that, but it says hilltop. And it's a straight, rough and rugged fucking neighborhood, bro, the west side of Columbus, man. It's a different read over there. So I saw him looking at me, but so I stop and I'm trying to let them past me and there and near setty looking at me like this and I'm like man fuck so I started walking across the street and then they just start letting the car roll and as I'm walking I'm kind of looking back like this and I just see home boy dip down and as soon as he dipped down I already knew what it was I took off running and he popped up I don't know what he had but it was definitely

some type of assault rifle like like one of those firearms because he just started hitting that whole I think it was a chopper, bro, because that thing went through front and back windshield of the car, and it skinned over. Like, I actually felt it come over the back of my neck when I cut through the car. Because in Cali, like, well, we got shot at in Cali, because I've been shot at Cali. When we ran, we would, like, zigzag. Like, we had zigzag between cars and duck and dodge, like, stuff like that. Like, we wouldn't just run straight if we did run.

Like, in Cali, when I got shot at, when I would be on the block, if they came by and did a drive by or something like that, a lot of people wouldn't even run. They would just drop to a knee. And they would always say, if you ran, that was like the worst way of getting shot. If just drop down, you've got a better way. And they actually teach that, I think, in the Army, too. Like, people start shooting, just drop to a knee and assess where the problems are coming from.

But to answer your question, yeah, I felt that bullet or the wind of it, guess you would say come across the top of the back of my shoulder when I was trying to cut through a car. So you were already gang-banging before you came to Texas. Yeah, basically, yeah. So bees and Cs were a thing in Columbus in the 90s? Yeah, yeah. I think Crips had got there, if I'm not mistaken, from what I had been told before Bloods did. But it was mainly, was up there was like a like GD vice lord four corner hustlers like more of those like organizations but crips were up there when I was there like my block was a Crip and folk block so they would like lock up Cs and then they would like turn the pitchforks up because they had like a truce with

each other where you could say that and did you have interest in joining yeah dude it was this is what's crazy right so like I knew how to see walk and everything So, like, when I wound up coming to prison here in Texas, I had told you about a buddy of mine that had saved me when the white dudes backdoored me, the dude named Slim. I said his cousin, ugly buddy was. He was a rolling 60s crib here from Austin. So when we were on the chain bus on the way over here, we were handcuffed to each other. So I was telling them all these stories, and then he just shook my hand playing around,

because we're handcuffed like this. So when I went to shake his hand, we do the Crip Hand shake together. Just me knowing it, like just kind of vibing with them type shit. So, like, I'm familiar with both worlds, right? Like, but in Texas, I was around Bloods all the time. I grew up with Bloods. All my homies are Bloods.

Like, so that's how that. And then in Cali, you know what I'm saying, being around Denver Lane Bloods and shit in Pasadena. So, I mean, that's why I say, like, I never was a gangbanger, because I never banged on anybody. Like, to me, well, ultimately got me fucking with the bloods more than the Crips, per se, when I went to prison, was like, bloods are always usually well-kept, well-mannered about that money, about getting money, things of that nature, right? where Crips, you know what I'm saying? Not to be disrespectful have always been,

especially the ones I've been around, been about like jacking, jacking, robbing, grimy, just like wild with it where bloods were more professional, I should say. And that's what attracted me was the professionalism, the way that they carried themselves, always being clean, cut, and groomed, clothes, always ironed. You would go to school and, like, the Crip fools

would be maybe more wrinkled up and not dirtied up. We're like here in Texas, creasing your jeans were super, like a big deal so we didn't get that fucking uh that starch the they called stay flow i think they still sell it we wouldn't even cut it with stay flow we a shine our pants would be so shiny i'm talking about we'd have our pants standing up in the corner so shiny clean tennis shoes clean shoelaces white you know hair haircut all the time like we weren't grimy like we were it was it was more so that attracted me that even though i was familiar with both and being around both and being around both

and I knew history of both. I could have went either way with it, but just that professionalism and the way that they carried themselves was always like on point and that's what attracted me that way. Today's episode is sponsored by Hymns. I've talked about Hymns at Nauseum

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I mean, I was already down with them because I was with them. So, like, temple, like, gang banging isn't like gang banging, like what you would see maybe in, like, Cali or, like, you know, it's not really more so about initiation. like you can get jumped in or something but like the bloods that like I grew up around like me just being with them the way we hit licks together we did dirt together we sold drugs together we ate together they could come to my mom's house like I can call my mom right now and put her on the phone and I can be like hey you remember Trey woo she'd be like how are they like they came and

slept at our house I slept at their house like my mom considered them their kids if we had Thanksgiving dinner because everybody was broke she'd be like hey tell your friends to come over here and let's eat. We didn't have much. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, but so I was already in. We already locked up with each other. Like, now, we didn't go and try to find crips and ride on them. So in that aspect, yeah, I was already a part of them. Now, I think deep down, my whole goal was to be as wild as possible. And then when I turned 18, I wanted to join the military and try to be like a Navy SEAL or some shit and learn how to be like a professional killer. That was, was in my mind, that was my whole fucking goal. Like, I wanted to go to the army or the Marines and

go to combat. Like, that's, that was, my whole ideology was either like, you know, that, that's just what it was, man. I, I, deep down, I thought when I turned 18, I'm going to get in all this trouble. When I turn 18, I'm going to join the Marines or join the army. I wanted to be a Navy seal, that was for sure. And I wanted to go overseas and kill people. That was, that was what I wanted to do, honestly, to tell you the truth. I don't know if I would have succeeded at that, but that's what I wanted to do. So your identity that you had built for yourself by the time you were a teenager was like a soldier. Yeah. Yeah, I was very militant. I'm still militant to this day. Like, I don't like dysfunction. I like to be on time. I like to be, I was here on time.

last time I got caught in traffic but you know that was my fault but I'm like one of those people like I say 15 I'll say 15 minutes I'll get there 15 minutes early but to me that's being on time okay so how old were you when you moved from ohio to Texas well because we I moved here when I was young but we were going back and forth because of that abusive relationship that my mom was in with my uh he's passed away now dude named Donnie straight piece of shit shit, motherfucker. We met him in prison. So my mom used to take us to church every Sunday and through her church group, which I didn't even know this until later on. That's how she met this dude, Donnie. And we went to go visit him in prison. It was like a, that prison looked like an old

castle. And I remember he whooped my ass the first day I met him in prison because I sat under the table because he just looked evil, man. Like he just, he looked fucking like, he just looked. Like, he just looked fucked up, dude. And I'm one of those people like, I can just sense when somebody's not a good person, bro. Like, I can feel it. Like, I'm very good at seeing very far down the field. Like, I can pick plays. I can just tell somebody, hey, man, this is that. I'm telling you this is going to happen. And usually I'm, I'm, like, spot on. And I guess he didn't like me because, like, my brother immediately when he came home was, like, calling him dad, because my brother's real dad didn't fuck with him. Like, he signed his rights away.

and he was like you're going to call me dad and i was like i'm not calling you dad so like say like i'd be in the bedroom like playing with my g-i jo's and shit right like i'd set up little forts and shit or i'd be outside doing it this motherfucker would just come in and just start strangling me like start strangling the fuck out of me and this fool was a uh a brick mason he laid concrete bro his fucking hands were so fucking tough he didn't need a belt that dude didn't need no belt when he hit you that dude didn't need no belt like he was in prison for beating a cab driver you remember with the old police night sticks the long ones like the 90s they used to hang in their belts he beat a cab driver damn near killed him with one of those night sticks like and he was a cocaine

junkie i didn't know this but uh yeah dude he used to just fucking choke me for no reason my mom didn't believe me like it was it was a it was a regular abuse by that dude dude fucking, like, like I'm talking about pick me up in the air and choke me until I'm about to pass out, let me go, and then do it again. You know, just like wild shit come in, just starts just hitting me all over my body with like his open hands. I remember he to take me or my brother or sometimes me and my brother on jobs with him. One thing I can say good about that motherfucker is he taught me how to fish. so I still remember that this day I know how to fish I know how to skin of fish I know how to peel the skin off a catfish so I'll I'll give him that he did give me a trade but he taught us how to make a fishing pole at like some some wood that was there at one of the sites and he used to do like rich people's homes and I remember one day he fucking broke one of those uh those sticks over my back he said I back talked to him I couldn't remember if I did or didn't it but I'm

might have. But like, yeah, that's what it was. It was very physical abuse. They met in prison, you said? Yeah, she met him. Some church group. The church that we went to, they somehow made that introduction. So they were like pen pals. Yeah. Damn, and he gamed her up. He gamed her up, bro. Gamed her up. And it was like, fuck, five, six years of fucking hell. And did he abuse her? Yeah, man, he fucked my mom up all the time, beat her up. broke her neck, fucking, and yeah, he, dude, he, he, he, he, he tried to leave one day and my mom had the suitcases backpacked. And I don't even know if they still make suitcases like this anymore, because I don't ever see him when I go to the store, but it was like the big square

suitcases that you've seen everybody have like in the 80s and 90s. And he picked one of those up and he fucking hit her. That's how he, uh, cracked her spine. And, uh, yeah, that dude was, That dude was vicious. He never hit my brother, though. That was crazy because me and my brother talked about it just recently. And he told me that he had never hit him. My brother never endured any type of abuse from him, but it was just me and my mom.

Did you think about trying to kill him? Hell yeah, bro. I don't know if you remember this, but back in the game, I think they still have them. They had these pellet guns that were black and they were long. They kind of looked like the 45. But you would hit a button on the side and you'd pull the hammer back and then push it.

but in the middle, like towards the, well, where the site is at the end came up, and you could either put like a little dart in it or a BB or a pellet, I can't remember. So he had went to jail and then he got out and I remember my mom, she had like a Toyota, like one of the little small single cab pickups. And I remember her, me and my brother, we were riding down it and we were living in Springfield at the time. And this motherfucker always wore like flannel T-shirts and jeans and then like construction in boots. And we were driving and I knew by his hair that he had like that Billy Ray Cyrus

fucking haircut. Like his hair would be like slicked and it was naturally curly like kind of like a mullet style deal. And I knew by his walk that it was him. And I was like, is that Donnie? And my mom's like, I ain't letting him in the house. So he tried to come in the house. And I remember I, she let him in the house. And I had that, that fucking pellet gun behind my back. And then I remember I like pulled the belly gun out on him and I told him like that I would kill him if he ever touched my mom again and then his eyes were bloodshot red so his ass must have been high and then there was another time he was gone all weekend he was out my dad said he was smoking crack so we used to live in these projects called green hire greenbriar housing projects in

Ohio and I'm sure you can look this up they called it a oozy alley machine gun alley like it went down in that motherfucker it was like an old military base barracks. Like it was, that fucking place was a rowdy, dude. And my dad caught him in there smoking crack because my dad lived there. And he, like, threatened my dad. And my dad was scared of him because my dad's, like, not, like, he's not somebody who tries to be violent. Like, he's not that type of guy. He tries to walk away from violence. But he told me the story later on. So it was that weekend, though. And he came back to the house. And I remember I had a fucking filet knife of the fish fillet knife that he had

that he filleted fish with, that shit was razor sharp. And I remember he was sitting on the couch, apologize, and then my brother was, like, leaned up on the wall crying and shit like a bitch. And I had that fucking fillet knife behind me, and he tried to stand up to come over,

and he was like, let me give you guys a hug. And I pulled that motherfucker out, and I tried to cut him with it. And he was so quick with it, bro. When I pulled it out and tried to come across like this way, he fucking caught my arm. I remember he caught my arm and fucking grab me by my throat.

Started fucking choking me. And I started crying. I remember I told him, I was all like, when you go to sleep tonight, I can barely get the words out. But I was like, when you go to sleep tonight, I was like, you're dead motherfucker. And I was in first grade. I remember I was eight years old. You know, I was like, you're dead. He left the house.

He didn't come back for some days. And I remember he told me later on. He said, I know you'll kill me if I stay here. Yeah. Yeah, you wouldn't have done any time either. Dude, when I went to Ohio, when I got sent to Ohio, bro, in 99, when I got sent to Ohio, I was with my buddy Italian, Mike. I thought I saw that Vuel. I remember I had a Glock 17 on me.

And we were in Mike's dad's Astrovan. He laid carpet. And we were in a nursing grocery store up there were called Kroger. no, it's a grocery store called Big Bear. We were in Big Bear. I don't know if it's still there, but they used to have a grocery store up there called Big Bear.

And there's a movie that Julia Roberts played in, I think in the 90s called Sleeping with the Enemy. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. That actor, that psychopath, motherfucker in that movie, that's what Donnie looked like. Fucking spitting image of that motherfucker. And I remember when we were in the,

in the big bear, my buddy Mike said my name. He's like, look out Tim and that dude looked at me. And I looked at him. And we just locked in and I was like, this is that motherfucker. I was like, this is him. So when we get in the car, I told, I told Mike, I was all like, hey, bro. And I fucking had two bandanas on me. And I tied one around the top of my head, but like pulled it down and I tied the other one like up.

So like only this part of my face was showing. And he's like, what you doing, fool? I said, you remember that fucking white boy in the liquor aisle? And he was like, yeah. Because we had went and got this fifth. I don't even know if they still make this shit. It's called Aftershock. I think it's called Aftershock.

And you know what I'm talking about? I remember that shit, yeah. Yeah, so we had got that in some OJ. And because in Ohio and the grocery stores, they like sell liquor and shit. Are they used to? So we had that in some OJ. And I was like, I was like, do you remember that white boy? He's like, yeah.

I was like, I'm about to smoke this motherfucker. And he's like, what? I said, that's the motherfucker that used to beat my mom. And we just kept circling the parking lot. I don't know where, if we missed him or what, but he never came out. But if I would have saw him that day, if he would have came out that store, I don't know what happened. His ass was grass, dog. I was going to murder that fool.

Like, I still get angry when I think about that dude, like a deep-seated anger. Do you have any resentment towards your mom for staying with him? them for getting into that relationship in the first place? I think that I did for a long time, but I dealt with that. Like, I think she was just, women are weak like that, man. Like, you got a single mom, two kids. Like, you know, she's trying her best. She grew up in an abusive household.

Her dad, my grandfather was a drunk and was abusive. he used to like whoop them with bullwips. He knew how to hit them. He knew how to whip my mom and her brothers with bullwips to where he could not split their skin open. So he could whip them where it would just pop them and whelp them really good. That's how beast this fool was with the bullwhip.

And he was a crazy motherfucker too, Fred. Yeah, he was a mean son of a bitch. So I think my, and he used to beat her, mom all the time. My grandmother, who I never met because she died of cancer. So I think when you grow up like that, if you don't deal with it, you don't know how to pass it down. Maybe I don't know because me growing up like that, bro, being abused, even my mom. My mom used to abuse me too mentally and she would hit me sometimes. She's blocked it out.

Like we've talked about it. She doesn't even remember it. But I know she called my brother and she asked him. She said, your brother said that I did this and did that. And my brother got quiet. And she said, please tell me he's lying. And my brother said that he told her, you want to know the truth or do you want me to tell you he's lying?

And he said that she hung up the phone on him. So she has like totally blocked that out. But for me, growing up abused like that now that I have two kids, like even without my two kids, bro, I've never wanted to hurt children. Like anytime I've ever been around children Like children and old people dog Like that's not something But did I hold it against her

I think I did for a long time But as I matured mentally I think that She was just a weak lady A weak lady and probably trying to do the best That she could for two kids You know That's what I think yeah

And so that's why did she come to Texas Why was she coming to Texas Because her dad was here. Her dad was here and her brother was here and she came here, but we went back and forth, and then she sent us to California as kids to live with my aunt out there for a little while, and then we came back. So it was a lot of moving around, dude, like a lot of unstableness for sure, yeah. So you got to Temple, Texas, about 45 minutes outside of Austin when you're a teenager, roughly.

Yeah. And that was where you kind of became a man. Yeah. What was the starkest difference when you got to Texas versus Ohio in terms of the racial element and the gang bang in the streets? Well, where in Ohio, if I went outside and I was new in the neighborhood around, like, say, like some black kids, it can be black and white. like they might treat you different because you're just new until they figure out who you are

whereas in but you eventually know they're probably going to play with you and hang out with you right but where when i came to texas there wasn't really that many white people where i was at there was but it was more like they more were maybe like say the calio blocks where i lived at right on the south side there was white people in that area but they more so might have hung out over here and the blacks were all over here and they ran this area. They still run that area to this day. So like me because like I grew up around white people that were like I guess fly like me. So like when I saw like the regular white dudes, I didn't really attract to that because

I attracted to the the black dudes like how they were. So like I try to like make friends with them but they were like who the fuck is this white boy? Don't be bringing this little white boy over there. Like, they'd be out there selling crack. And I'd go over there, like, my buddy that brought me around, and Ray, and his name is Ray, and they were like, man, you got that white boy over here. I'm going to be bringing that white boy over here. I had never heard that shit before.

Like, I had never been called a white boy. Like, I had never heard that language. So, like, the racial demographics were definitely, like, you're not being accepted here. And that took me, like, even I had said that story before to you, like, when I was in Ray in his house and his mom came home. She saw me sitting on the couch and she just like looked at me like I was shit. And she went in the bedroom. I remember she called him back. She's like, Rajan, come here. And he's like, Bob, what's up, Mala? She's like, who's that white boy sitting on my couch? I just got up and walked out. It went and sat on the stairs and

then he wanted to come in a he's like, why'd you leave? And I was like, man, your mama called me a white boy. He's like, oh man, this is Texas, bro. It's different down here. Like, you hang out, you trying to hang out with you. You're trying to hang out with us, but it's not like that down here. Like we don't, you know, white people and black people, it's just different. We don't like mix like that here. And Temple was still kind of segregated like that.

Like in the rich neighborhoods, it was predominantly white. You might see a few Hispanics and you see a few blacks. But what I can say that I remember a lot of the times when we, because we did make friends with people who lived in those neighborhoods like Canyon Creek, northwestern hills and shit like that, like a lot of those, At that time when I was a kid, those blacks or Hispanics that lived in those neighborhoods, like their dads were either cops, like Temple PD, or they worked at the hospital. So they were educated, like, you know, there were school people.

They were different. They weren't the same as us. So there was definitely racial borders. Where if you would go to a rich neighborhood in Ohio, you would see rich white and black people. Like it would be, you know, I understand what I'm saying? Like, it was nothing to see a rich black person in Dublin, Ohio. Like, in Dublin, in Columbus. Like, you didn't think, you didn't think any different, right?

So, like, in Temple, you could definitely see the difference. And, like, I even told you, I went to the corner store, and there was a country white dude in there. He's like, he's like, what do you say something? What you doing, boy? And I'm like, boy. I looked at him, like, the, fuck. Like, to me, like, calling somebody a boy, like, that was,

that was racial, that was disrespect. That was, that was, you know, that was, that was disrespectful to call somebody that. So it sounds like you were almost stuck in the middle when you came to Texas. You experienced racism from black people, right? Prejudice. Yeah. Otherness. And then you experienced discrimination from white Texans that looked at you as like probably a wigger, a white kid up to no good that's trying to be black.

Yes, sir. Which one hurt you more? Maybe like looking back at it now, because how like I eventually evolved, I think the white hurt me more. But at that time, it was the black that hurt me more. Like it was the black that hurt me more. Like, for some reason I wanted to be accepted by them. I don't know why. I could, I could estimate why.

So at that time, I think it was at that time thinking at that time initial thought wise was it was, the black the black's not accepting me that's why i drove to get their acceptance but as i grew older i believe that it was probably really the whites because as i got older when i was out selling dope and i hung out with people that didn't sell drugs like even a good friend of mine today uh my whole boy black dude played football for umhb he's a life coach body body bodybuilder, you know, he had a lot of like educated, well-groomed white friends and he had bring me around them, but you could tell they really didn't trust me. And it hurt, it hurt me that not one of my own as far as like a Caucasian person didn't. And I think that's when I started

gaining like racial awareness. So I believe back then it was white, but on the surface being a young kid, it was black, and that's why I wanted to gain their acceptance. Right. And when you went to prison for the first time, same story. You were trying to gain their acceptance. I was trying to gain their acceptance, yeah. I went down for burglaries for six, six burglaries that they got me for. And, yeah, went with shit, went to prison. And then I think because I burglarized that sheriff, I think that's why I went to a tarol unit, which is now called Polonski where death row is. And bro, like, so back then, so commissary now, like, you can do a 95, what, it's a 95 spend,

so you can spend up to $95 every two weeks. But back then, when I went, it was a 75. So they had this thing called fight fuck or bust a 75. So, bro, I remember when I got picked up to go to prison, we drove by Temple High School. and I'm on the bus and then I'm up first all talking yeah, whoa, whatever, like it ain't shit. And I'm sitting in there in a too small

fucking jumpsuit that's high waters all up my ass and shit. And I'm sitting there handcuffed to this other motherfucker and I'm our we're driving by Temple High School and I'm looking at the high school and kids are getting off and going to high school and I'm 17, that's where I'm supposed to be at. And for some reason that song

Lean on me came into my mind. And I just, like it was just playing in my head and I'm just looking out the window, and I just kind of resting my head on the window, and I was like, fuck what I do to myself. Like, it was kind of like that awareness of like, man, I'm going, like I could see the dynamics between the two lives, right? Like, they're going to school.

They don't even know. I'm on a prison bus driving past them. My friends are there, and I'm on a fucking prison bus going to prison. So by the time we get to the prison, I had never heard of this prison before. And then, like, I remember when I told you that, was like, he was asking everybody, where are you going, man, where are you going?

So I tell him I'm going to the Tataro unit. He's all like, uh, man, you better get you a knife. So I was on this transfer unit called Gore-Reed, and it's only two stories. And it used to be like there was women on the other side. I don't know if it's still like that. But they have to roll the bars and let you out

and all that old type of shit. So I remember when I was coming down the stairs on one road, there was a black dude. He was fucking blue-black. He would always stare at me, big motherfucker. and I was just like, I would always think, man, when I go, when I gets the real joint, I'm going to fucking have to fight some motherfucker like that. Like, I remember when that white dude asked me that, and I started walking,

he was like walking behind me, man, it sucks. Just going to taro unit. Oh, shit. And everybody's like, where are you going, bro? Asking their own voice. So that black dude, he was leaned with his hands out at the bars. Really not about this much of his arms because his arms are so fucking massive. He's like, look out wood.

and I turned and I looked at him. I was like, well, somebody's like, come here. So I walked like just far enough, like close enough. And he's all like, where are you going? I was like, taro unit. And he just dropped his head like that. And he is like, man, when you get there, don't listen to none of these motherfuckers.

Don't hit the first person you see. He's like, well, bro, you need to get you a knife. He's like, because they're doing nothing but killing over there. He's like, it ain't like the red bricks where it's a bunch of fighting. They're doing nothing but kill it over there. which they were doing nothing but killing over there when I got there. There wasn't a lot of fights. It was different than the red brick units.

Because when I caught chain and I went over there, there was a bunch of dudes on the chain bus from like Bito and stuff like that. And they thought that they were going to come to Terrell unit and like start running the show because they come from these Rock and Darrington's and they fight all the time. But at that time over there, it wasn't a bunch of fighting. Like you couldn't just go and start fucking thumping on somebody. It was there was a whole different level of respect. back there, like a fight could turn into a fucking riot real fucking quick.

Like it was different over there. It was more professional, I should say. So when we pull up, and I'll get into that. So when we pull up, I'm handcuffed to that dude slim. So you hear a dude's talking, oh, here it goes, man, here it goes. And I'm thinking we're going to pull up to a red brick unit, but it's not like that. and so as soon as we pull around to the back of the unit right when you pull into the back you got 12 building right here which is death row and seg and then you got 11 building across from you which

is a PhD and then like the infirmary and law libraries right here so you're on what's called B-side and I remember they had all these laws waiting for us and uh like the riot suits or whatever you know what I'm saying, with the fucking, like, the umpire fucking shin guards with the knee pads and shit. I was like, with the little baton, I'm like, why are these motherfuckers in riot here? And they'd come and get on the bus, but I didn't know because all those dudes that were coming from them other units, they were like troublemakers, like there was a riot here or there, and that's why they were sending them there. So that's why they were like that.

So I remember the fucking, one of the laws ran up on the bus, and he's like, hey, shut the fuck up, blah, la, la. He's like, welcome to Tero unit. fight fuck or bustle 75 and i'm like okay what the fuck does that mean i i can't ask the dude next to me because he don't know it's his first time in prison so i'm just like fight fucker buster 75 well i guess i'm fighting because i ain't fucking and not 75 i ain't even got that on my book so i don't know what this is about we get off and everybody's talking and talking and talking and talking in the multi-purpose room and 12 building so the most it's what was actually indoor wreck

And we're all sitting around. Everybody's just eyeballing everybody. And I'm just sitting there. And I'm like, fuck dog. Like, here we are. And some of the black dudes are coming up to me. What you bang, homie? What you bang?

And I was like, no, I don't bang. I don't bang. Because I was told in the county to hang out with white dudes. But the thing about Texas is it's not like other prisons you hear in other states, where white dudes are accepting when you come in and they're like, hey, home boy, what's up or bro? And they try to put you on. And like in Texas, white dudes will leave you out to hang by yourself,

especially when the families were running the show because they only wanted the stiffest motherfuckers with them. They only wanted the heart of the hard in the ABT, the AC, the white night, especially the ABT, like that's the top dudes at that time, right? So like, they don't come to be your friend. They don't come to befriend you. So none of the white dudes are talking to me. So I'm like, okay.

So I'm just wondering what is going on. And then I wound up getting taken down to my pod. So fast forward and then, you know, start hanging out with the white dudes and stuff like that. But they're trying to manipulate me like saying things about black people saying things about this. They're trying to give me literature on racial stuff. This is when a lot of books could get in. Now all these books can't get in. Like you can't even get in Robert Green's books, like 48 laws of power and all that shit.

none of that shit's allowed in Texas prisons anymore. So they were like, there was a famous clan dude name, well, he like was in Congress or something in Louisiana. He used to be in the clan. His name's David Duke. So he had a book called Like My Awakening. So like they give me this book. And this is over like a few weeks like this happening.

They get me on the bodybuilders team. I'm lifting waves. There's creatine in the system. But Marcelli, you know, is half white, half black. and from Houston, stupid cool motherfucker, stupid cool. And he could tell that I'm different.

And he's like, man, what'd you do in the world? Who you ran within the world? So I got a couple of pictures that my mom sent in and I'm with all my homeboys throwing up gang signs and shit like that.

He started laughing. So I'm just, I kind of like open up to him. Not kind of I'd do because I could tell he's stupid cool. I'm just like, I'm like, bro, what am I supposed to do, man? I'm told I'm supposed to hang out with the white dudes.

But I was like, I don't roll like that. And I'm not trying to be getting caught up in nothing. And he was like, just hang out with your people, bro. And he's like, just do what you got to do to get home because this ain't that type of place.