The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - Virginia's BIGGEST Cocaine Kingpin Exposes The REAL Story Behind Pusha T, Pharrell, & The Clipse

Episode Date: March 16, 2025

In this explosive interview, Anthony "Geezy" Gonzalez, former cocaine trafficker turned successful entrepreneur takes us behind the scenes of the illegal hustle happening behind the scenes with rap group Clipse. From running the streets of Virginia Beach alongside hip-hop legends like Pusha T to managing Clipse and touring with icons like 50 Cent and Jay-Z, Anthony lived a life most only hear about in rap lyrics. But the fast life caught up with him. After a high-stakes drug operation and a federal indictment that nearly landed him a life sentence, he did 10 years in prison. Now, he's out, making six figures in the trucking industry and teaching others how to build businesses with little to no money down. Go Support Geezy! Geezy's Trucking School: https://www.nocdltrucking.com/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/tonyg757 This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: PrizePicks! Download the app today and use code CONNECT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup! https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CONNECT Mando! Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code MITCHELL at https://mandopodcast.com/mitchell #mandopod True Classic! Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @trueclassic at https://trueclassic.com/CONNECT #trueclassicpod Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whoever got the dope, you controlled the streets. That first one was like something small. Between 1,000 or 2,000 pounds and 50 keys of coke. That was setting for 100,000, no cut. I ended up meeting Bigger Connects when they got into the music. Anthony Jeez-Z Gonzalez is an entrepreneur and former cocaine superstar from Virginia Beach, Virginia. He comes from the same neighborhood as musician Farrell and rap star Pusha T, who is one half of the clips crew, the greatest rap duo in hip-hop history.

Anthony and Pusha did regular business together, supplying all of coastal, Virginia with cocaine that they had smuggled in from Panama. But in the early 2000s, after the rap took off, Anthony put the drugs down and became the full-time manager for the clips crew, touring the world with them as they opened for the biggest acts at the time, like 50 Cent and Jay-Z. But the streets kept calling. And when a chance meeting put him in touch with a Mexican connection, Anthony gave in and started moving cocaine again, this time by the ton. After getting arrested in a huge indictment, Anthony ended up beating a life sentence and coming home after doing 10 years in the feds. He now owns his own trucking franchise and earns a high six-figure salary

every year. And he's starting to teach other people how to do it. Check it out. If you're interested in owning your own business with little or no money down, trucking is one of the best ways to do it. You can learn how to do it for free at Anthony's website. Go to nocdl trucking.com. That link will be in the description of the episode. We discuss it more in detail over at the Patreon. Patreon.com Connect show. Anthony is one of the most remarkable stories in the history of drugs and hip hop, and he's triumphed and become a millionaire again, but this time the legal way. You are going to love this one. Tony Gizi Gonzalez, right here on The Connect with Johnny Mitchell. I get to call. Little cousins, they getting picked up, wife, mother, everybody. Everybody's getting scooped up.

46 people ready to testify against me, and 20 everyone was on the street. Up on top of the, on the paper, it had seven sealed indictments. This will happen. It was. It was. was us, me and my fan. I was looking at life because of the drug week. How old are you? I'd be 50 March 27. Gotcha. Having a big party in Virginia.

Oh, nice. Nice. And having had one in like, because I used to throw parties out there. That's how I started too, you know? Right. That's when I bought the club and all that. Yeah. Yeah.

And so you haven't had a party in when? The 29th. Okay, cool. March. Yeah, I'm having my 40th is next year. And I never do anything. for my birthday because it's in the middle of winter it always fucking sucks nobody wants to do anything but i'm like yo i'm rent in the house in Mexico i'm flying all my boys in like we're

gonna have a fucking birthday for once so yeah it's you got to do shit like that every now and then see i'm still burnt out like i'm scared of the camera i'm scared to take pictures like i had to grow into all that and it still makes me nervous like you know what i mean because it was just because back then it was like you're getting no picture i ain't doing that so i don't even have a whole lot of pictures. I got a lot, but not a whole lot. Right. Right. It was the thing, you don't put to take no pictures. Right. Right. Yeah, even back, like the backstage footage, uh, when you're with like Pusha and, and Malice, it's always one guy that has the camera. Everybody else is just

working on these flip phones. It's not like everybody has a high quality camera like they do now. Yeah. It's a totally different era. Yeah, it is. And the era changed very fast. And it changed within the course of 10 years or so, right? Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, the reason that you stuck out when you emailed me is because you were like, hey, I used to roll with these guys that you probably know. And the clips is interesting. They, for sure, as much rap as I consumed and like middle class, middle American, mostly white people consumed, was this like drug rap, cocaine rap.

But I think the clips came along and you could tell that these guys had really lived it. Unlike most rappers that just rap about what they see or they saw other people from the neighborhood doing Malice and push a tea really were with the shit And they would always reference these cats that came up with and You were one of those guys and I knew their rap so well. I was like oh, this is Tony. I miss my Tony Yeah, I hope you snitches burn in hell yeah, fact So you're from this environment. You're from Virginia Beach. Yeah, people don't people for People forget when they hear Virginia, they think D.C. or, you know, one of these, like, fake colonial towns.

Yeah. They forget that it's grimy and it's drug infested. So tell us about, like, how growing up was like. Oh, man. Growing up was like, like the wire, but with cocaine. Because, you know, with Harron, that was a person thing. A what? There was a, so in Virginia, you know, we call it the seven cities.

So you got Portsmouth, Suffolk, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, Hampton, Newport News, and Suffolk, which make up the seven cities. Right. Right. So like back then it was, if you were selling heroin, you already knew, or it came from Peatown. It came from Piedown. It came from Norfolk, because Norfolk used to do it too. But like Virginia Beach, no, man, you're like, you're gone forever. And you thought about selling that beige.

selling that beige if you beat you gone so you know so i grew up around like knowing that all the adults was sniffing cocaine you know but it was a thing of you know it was normal you know you know smoking you know but um i used to love sports you know so i grew up playing sports like all the other kids you're half puerto rican yeah dad is the portar rican yeah okay and mom is black yeah okay Did you have any elders, family members in the game? Yeah, my whole family. Can you tell us about that? So my aunts all married guys in the service, Puerto Ricans, Panamanians.

So it was always Spanish, something going on in the house. And I'm like, okay. So my aunt, she had married a Panamanian. And he kind of like was like back in the day, like, You seen paid him full. Oh, of course. So, you know how they had the outies and, you know, so like that was him. But he had the velour suits and, you know, and then, you know, he used to run with like guys.

I'm like Drew, he was like more like Americanized, you know, far as Drew because, you know, he was from here, you know. And he used to be dressed with the Nike suits and stuff like that. So it was kind of like a yin and a yang thing, you know, with them. But, yeah, I grew up around it. Oh, interesting. So they married into kind of like drug. Yeah. Drug trafficking. Yeah.

Interesting. And then I was realizing that my uncle, he was the one, you know, the one from Panama, he was the one who was hitting everybody else in the family. And my mother was actually working for him. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. So he was bringing in Coke and giving it to your family for them to.

Yeah. Were they cooking up now? Is this the 80s? Or were they all selling powder? Yeah, it was the age just Ronald Reagan, 88. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because I was up on 75. Yeah.

So I'm like, you know, it's like 88. Yeah. Yeah. So is this crack? Yeah, but I never saw, but then I never saw crack. It was just always coat, coat, coat, and I remember being, seeing it tied in red, a red, like, kind of like a zip tie kind of like, but it was red.

And it was like, they said how to add at the end of the bag. And I used to see that, but, you know, it's normal, but it was coat then. Interesting. So unlike New York where they were selling vials, it was different down in Virginia. Yeah. Huh. Right. And I imagine the Coke was a lot more expensive, too, than up in New York. So, like, when I came up and I finally got on the corner, like, I remember selling two for 20.

Like, we ain't had the vials and stuff. Like, like I said, I had a business mind. So it was like, like my brother used to always say, man, man. I don't understand how we got the same coat, but the fiends always coming to you. But in my mind, I'm like, yeah, but look, you got the gun on you. You're dressed a certain way. Like, you know, you're scaring them. You know what I mean? I got to make them comfortable, but not only that, I'm cutting it in half.

You know, like, if I'm getting in front of the gram, you know, I'm going to come back faster because I'm going to cut it in half and get the deals out so I can finish it faster. As I finish it faster, then I got the person who I'm getting you to, like, the hell you just swallowing it? See, I'm going to give him more. Yeah. You know, and the whole time they're like, man, how he, how he doing that? Right.

You know. So you know about customer service. I know my customer service. Even as a little kid. Even as a little kid. I'm talking about down to selling it or who I wanted to be like. You know, like I had a cousin. His name was tight. He used to ride through the neighborhood.

Rent a car. Smoking. Girls in a car. Gold chains on. That makes you want to deal with that person. Like, my whole thing is he could have some bad. drugs, but he's making it look so good, I want to deal with him. So now I know everybody on the corner is thinking the same thing I think.

Because my business mind has always been this in the early age. I always put whatever I'm selling, I put myself in the mind of the consumer. Because not what I like is what I'm selling it. I'm not going to keep buying it. So you got to put your mind to see what they like. Think how others think. Exactly. So when people, you know, saw me hop off the corner and now I'm right, everybody

wanting to deal with me. You know what I'm saying? So it's all, you know. Yeah. Marketing. Marketing. Marketing. Yeah.

How long did it take you? Well, first of all, when did you first go on the corner? So how I end up on the corner, I had a cousin down the street. So I had, so I'm from a street called Southgate, right? in Virginia Beach, right? So people think, when they say Virginia Beach, I think of water. Yeah.

But I stayed like, I stayed like 20 minutes, if that, probably about 10, 15 minutes, if that, from the beach. So now you got neighborhoods, them down the beach, friendship, Atlanta, places like that, right? And all of them was going crazy. With drugs? Yeah, going crazy. Even in the tourist sections, because I've been to Virginia Beach,

There's a lot of tourists from the north that come down every summer, right? They're talking about they going so crazy, like the beach is probably like a couple of blocks up, you know, in these neighborhoods. Because people think Virginia Beach, oh, you don't got no hoods, y'all don't got no ghetto. They still say that today today today. But they were going there going crazy. So you kind of hop on the interstate to drive to get to the next area, which is a spot called Twin Canal, which is like the Lake, the Green Run area, right? Which is a nudge hood that used to go crazy. right now all this is in the beach though it was in your beach yeah so as you're driving up more now

you get the lake eras and the base of the arms and the south gates you know which was the area i grew up in so with me playing sports i was cool with all the guys from down the beach the murioles junks boons and my mother my mother stayed out twin canal the green run area So I grew up out there with them guys But I was raised more over here Where you know guys And who still my friends like to like All these guys still my friend to this day

But so it was kind of like Once I hop off the porch And I had it now I'm dealing with all these guys So now it's making it seem like Damn you But all them coming You know like all them coming to me now Because I'm getting out the deals

I'm doing this I'm doing that But this is before I even thought about expanding But I had a cousin, his name with Tony Cameron, stayed down in the Southgate. We called that Southgate 1. In the middle, Southgate 2. I stayed on Southgate 3 with my grandma because I wanted to go to school out here instead of our Twin Canal. You know, I agree right there.

So one day my brother, he used to go in my uncle closet and still the, remember when I told you about the red thing? So he used to steal him and he used to bring it to me. So I'm like, man, I don't know what to do with this, right? So I end up going down to see my cousin, it's on the camera. Because I knew, like, for us being down there playing football and all that, like he was like, wow, but he was real good in sport, in all kinds of sports. He was good in, but he didn't go to school. You know, so he was down there.

I remember when he was saying what he was doing and, you know, I got my first, this and that. So I'm like, all right. So I said, well, let me go down here. So I go take it to him. He buys it from it, right? Probably like $60 or something. But you got to imagine, I'm like 15, junior high, just junior high. So he says, so we do it a couple of times.

It's one gram. I didn't know. Just one bag, right? No, there's a couple of them. Probably like two, three, you know. So when he cook it up, I don't know what it is. Right. So he's telling me, oh, yeah, you know, I give you this for it. I give you that for it. Probably on like the third or fourth try, I take it down there to him. And he said, man, I got some right now. I can't do nothing with it. But you can't, you know, I still cook it up for you because they had to cook it up.

Yeah. Yeah. So he says, I cook it up for you, but I can't do nothing with it. So I'm like, man, as I'm leaving, I get stopped by one of the things who was going to him. Only want to say his name, but he's still around. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local total wine and more to grab a great bottle to share. With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy. If you're not sure what to pick, their friendly guides can help.

Find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and More. Shop total wine and more in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. B-21. So he tells me, so I tell him, I'm like, hey, man, let me holler at you. So he said, yo, what you got? So I tell him, show it to him, he end up tricking it and swapping whatever he had in his mouth and give me some fake stuff.

Wow. I go, so I go out based on my first sale that I make is bad stuff. I don't know. So I'm like, no, I'm telling you. Like, I just got just cooked up. Like, so they end up even getting it back to me. That's how I'm like, oh, yeah, I know it's fake. If I can give it back to you.

So I take it and I go back to my cousin. Like, yo, this is what you're cooking, what this is in? He was like, nah, you got got. I was like, how I started explaining to me? He would like, yeah, he takes it, you know, he switched it on. It's his crackhead tricks, bro. Yeah. The sleight of hand.

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to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Once again, download the app and use code Connect to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Remember, that money is guaranteed whether you win or not. Prize Picks, run your game. So you were basically stealing Coke from your uncle and selling it to your cousin. That's how you got in the game. Yep.

And then you got put on the crack when he cooked it up for you. Okay. So now you're on the corner, not just selling to your family. Now you're hustling to fiends and shit. Yeah, it ended coming to that. Okay. Gotcha. And was it like a corner game?

Like, you know, when we think of crack selling. Yeah, we've running the cost. So the thing you had to run Like it was like it started off Who was the fastest to actually get there So you know I was the fastest I was in the sports and stuff You know so

I get there before But then it came to the point They was running You know because I'm giving out more So I'm sitting back And my brother of them like Like yo dude ain't running no more You know what I mean

Oh so the cars pull up And all these crack little crack kids Descend on the car trying to sell them your shit. Either you go hop inside or dig on. So we had this lady that we used to call a white lady hauncher, right? And she used to run across the field. I'm talking about, so we got this field.

And when you see her running, she actually got the money in her hand and everything. She's going to spend about $100. So that's like crazy. So she's running across the field with the money in her hand. So when you see her, everybody take off and start running towards her. You know what I mean? And everybody like, you got the deal. I got the deal for it.

Wow. You know, so it was the thing that's unbelievable. That's like when you're coming back from Mexico and lying at the border and you got a bunch of kids trying to sell you little trinkets, that's how crack was. That's how crazy it was back in the beginning of the game, huh? Yeah, yeah. But everybody had their time, though.

You know what I'm saying? Like, it was time that I was out there and I got to run to the car just like everybody else, you know, everybody got that time to have that. Take turns. You know what I'm saying? It ended up coming to that. You know what I mean? Because, you know, that's thought problems.

So it's like, yo, what do you? doing. But my mind was, I got to get off this corner. I'm not trying to stay on the corner. Right. That's where my mind always been. Like, I want to be like tight. You know what I mean? I wanted to be like my Uncle Renee. You know what I mean? Pulling up with the weight and fly. Because I knew it was two different things that they was actually doing. But by this time, you know, when I started getting up, it was like, and Uncle Renee started to go down and, you know, and getting deported. It was more so me actually start hanging with tight. You know what I'm saying? But. But, you know what I'm saying? But um so you had like an adult mindset even as a 15 year old you were like oh this is like i don't want to be down on the muck i need to be like in the background supplying all these people

yeah but before i start selling crap i start selling weed first because like i said my brother before he started going into my uncle coat he used to go in people houses and still you know weed he used to find a lot of wheat so now i had this weed and um at the time i wasn't plugged in with the neighborhood kids of base out on like that. You know, like I got cousins and stuff out there, older cousins and younger cousins, but I wasn't like, because I wasn't on the corner. I wasn't plugged. So it was a, it was a guy who I grew up with like, me and him in a meeting in science class.

Seven grade science class, Mr. Smiley. He's always say, well, y'all guys joshing around to a point we start calling him Josh. Right? This is like my right hand man. and he started because he was from out there like his whole family and everything is like shady rest of it. So like from out there, he was the one who was my inside to, you know,

getting out there, right? So when I told him, hey, I got some smoke, he was just starting to go to school in another area. So I ended up giving him most of the weed to sell. But as I kept, as I kept a little bit from my I had cousins like Fets, you know, Bramand and all them, they smoked wheat. I wasn't in smoking. Them are the main guys who was out there, the pigs, the, you know, like them are the guys who was like the stuff who I looked up to.

When I told them I had some weed, they start coming around there to see me. I don't even know what I got. I don't have a scale, I don't got any of them. But I'm just so happy to deal with them. Yeah. You know, so I end up giving them. them, you know, then I beat me for it too, but, but that's how, that was my insight to getting in there. Okay.

So you started off selling stolen Coke and stolen weed. Exactly. That's how it goes when you're 15. You don't have any plugs. You don't have any money. That's how a lot of people got in the game was stealing it or robbing it. That's just kind of how it was. You can't get alone.

No. So did you know, uh, Farrell? Did you know any of these guys? Did you know push it back then? Did you grow up with any of these dudes or did that come later? So, that came, that came much later. As adults? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I see. They came a little farther later. Because Farrell was actually high school, because I got kicked out of high school. I got kicked out in the 11th grade. I was playing, like, I was supposed to start point guard for basically that high. And I'm getting kicked out because we used to fight another neighborhood called Lake Airways. Right. So it was always like, we see.

each other is going to be gunplay fighting or whatever it was now now. Now I'm from this neighborhood now. Like I'm, you know, from Southgate it's like walking across the street. You know, even though Southgate used to go crazy. But now from being out Bayside, I'm cool with the guys them playing basketball, some of the guys them from over in the other neighborhood. But once we fight, I got a fight. You know, so and I'm getting kicked out. Providing? Yeah, I didn't get to spit because that's how big of a, you know, it was all on the news and everything. Like, it was crazy because they knew how the rival was between us. And I had to get kicked out, but then I'm going back graduating because my mother wanted me to graduate.

But I'm saying that. So for us to be in the band at Prince's in high school. And he was always, you know, that guy to be like, have you always looking at him. Like, yo, he, you know, he's going to be something special. But people at a time, you know, say it's weird, but it's like, no, he was before his time. Yeah. You know, right. Man, it was like he used to see me out there rolling with the guys.

And, you know, so with the area where he know I'm from, that right there's a thing of him, knowing I was about by just. Right. So he knew you were with the shit. Yeah. One of these cats, you know, on the corners and making trouble. and he was like an artist. And back then in the early 90s, being an artist, especially in a black neighborhood,

that was like weird. It's kind of gay or fruity, you know. But now everybody is that. But you're right, he was totally out of his time. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, because I think he started making beats for like Belved DeVoe, right?

Like when he was a teenager in high school, like he popped real fast. I remember it was Norrie. Noriega, Super Thur. Made that too, right. But then before they were like the SWVs and the Mace. Yeah. No, this is earlier, man.

He was making beats by like 1990, 91. He was for like... Get up super thud, right? No, that's the late 90s. I'm talking about like 1990. And if I had a producer, he'd be looking this up right now. He made a beat that would have been considered viral. it was for Teddy and yeah

Teddy Riley. Teddy Riley. There we go. Teddy Riley. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like his... Rump shaker. That was filmed down Virginia Beach. Wow.

That was filmed on the oceanfront. Crazy, dude. Yeah, he was like 15 or 16 when he made that beat. But that was like a hit, you know? Man, to us, he was out of here. Out of there. To us, he was out of here. Yeah, yeah.

So you get kicked out of high school. Did your mom know you were dabbling in drugs when you were in high school? So like I said, my mom was still out Twin Canal at the time. Hossler? No, she was, you know, she had a thing going on. You know, because my father, so my father, he's the working man. My stepfather, because my real father had passed.

You know, like, I didn't even know that I met him one time when I was 12. So my stepfather, which is I called him a real father because he'd been with me since I was nine months. So he was the working man. He was the man who like checks, girl, you know, but my mom is the one. She's going to flip that. You know what I mean? So she's still out, Twin Canal, doing that. I'm staying with my grandmother.

Right. You know, so. So your mom didn't know that you were. So at the time, she didn't know, she didn't know any of that when it was cracked. You know, but once it got to me end up selling powder, how began to sell powder, me ended up going to her. And because I remember when Uncle Renee used to deal with her. So I ended up going to her saying, mom, this and that.

When I first started, she, you know, she was like, hey, boy, you got to put something on this. Yeah. You know, and I'm like, what do you mean? She was like, you giving it away. I'm like, she brought out the Isotaur. And she showed me the game of you have to put this and this and this. And I said, well, I'll let you do that. You know what I mean?

She was like, well, you can still lose a lot of money. She was like, well, I still want you to put something on it because it's too strong for me. You know what I mean? but during that time when I took off because my friend who I told you who we called Josh but that's the one who do the film stuff now

but he ended up I forgot what I was saying well hold on don't skip over this your mom taught you how to cook crack or she taught you how to stretch powder she told me how to stretch the powder and put the isotone on it

and she's like you know listen you got to understand I want you so she said if so my mom was like this if you gonna do it, I'm gonna make sure you do it right. You know, because I already know, I'm not gonna stop you. You know what I mean? Like, the only way to stop me is the car the police on me. She's gonna do that.

So I might be teach you, you know, so she's like, yo, you're giving this away. If you basically gonna give somebody some coke, you need to put Bacolol on it. Right. If you're gonna give them for the people who snort, you need to put this isotone on it. Because that's what she's doing.

And when I give it to her, she's still gonna put some on it because it was too strong. And this is powder you were getting from Uncle Renee? This is powder. to end up, I end up getting from Panama, from New York. Okay. So, and what kind of quantity were you getting at this time? At this time, I was getting, man, it was pink. Pink cocaine? Pink cocaine. Is that what they call Tusi now? I don't know, because I don't know what's going on now. Okay. Well, it's in the news now. It's been in Columbia forever. It's Tusi, and it's kind of like

pinkish cocaine, but I think it's mixed with like MDMA. Does this sound familiar? Is this the kind of Coke you were getting. Man, see, back then, it was, you know, because it was crazy because when I went to New York to get this coat and they bring it and putting it on the pool table, like, because this is, this is straight off of the plane, straight off of the plane from Panama, being in the, like, so like in New York, they got the basement in the bottom. And I remember it, it was like a pool hall game room up top, but downstairs, they got the pool tables and stuff. And they had this coke on there and the lady, you know, came and gave it to him and it's on the table and it's pink.

Wow. And like that was like my first time when I, like, seeing my first keep, having my first keep. Wow. Yeah. So that's just great Coke. Just had a pinkish hue to it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And was that arranged through your uncle Renee? That was arranged through my uncle Renee. Okay. Because, you know, I ended up me and my friend Josh. Because at the time, me did little Uncle Renee.

he was trying to sit met with different plugs and stuff. So I ended up meeting this guy he had coming in, Panamanian. He was coming in from Florida. And he ended up beating me for like, oh, I want to money. So I was like, job messed up. Like, you know, and so he was like, man, I got somebody in New York who can, you know, go ahead and get us right. You got some things coming in. So I was like, well.

I'm tapped out. You know what I mean? I got a couple of guys who owe me some chain, but you know, I did if you don't got no work at the time, anybody's trying to come bring you that money. Because they're like, man,

I ain't, you know, get something first. You know what I mean? So I go to my guy, Josh, who I ended up, you know, coming up with. And he had enough for, I think, like, two things.

Mm. All right? So we end up going up there with my uncle. And when we get there, He ended working it out. They end up getting the two and then the front is like three. So you came back with five. Five birds.

And my first time. Wow. First time. And this is non- untouched. South American blow. Wow. And what was a key? What were they charging you for a key?

It was like 18, 17, 17 and 18. So in Virginia, you're going to kill him with that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Wow. At this point, I'm probably about, this is the 90s, the mid-90s probably, I think. So you're like 90s, something like.

So you're like 20 or something? Yeah. You're young. 19, yeah. Wow. That's a lot of Coke for a 19-year-old. That's a lot of responsibility. Yeah.

So is that what put you on? Yeah. That right there, you know, and then like, like, did with Uncle Renee. He used to like the lottery head first came out. And he used to play the lottery like crazy. Like, I even got pictures till this day of me holding up the lottery ticket. He used to play day and night. I got turned on to that.

My first number I hit was 0825. I played a combo for a dollar, right? Twice. And I played it to Zach. Hit for 7,500, I think it was. At that time. And you hit? Yeah.

Wow. And I was hooked since then. I started hitting for $18,000. 15,000. My uncle used to crack them for like 80,000. Like, it was crazy. Like, And is this the state lot? Or this is the number, man? No, this is the state lot. Okay, I got you. In Virginia when it first came out, like, wow. Yeah. So, so I'm grinding at the time, you know. And then, you know, a whole lot of stuff transpired in between, in between then. And like Josh even went to, you know, end up going to college on the football scholarship, you know. Because when he came, because when he came, because when he came, back that money that got hit some of that was his too when he went away you know what i mean so so now it's like yo you know i mean i had his you know i mean you know i mean you ain't got nothing you know so

when you come back with five keys now you're like supplying all the the dealers in the virginia beach area yeah pretty much right yeah um and the guys who we used to fight the guys who used to fight in high school, I end up going to get them to and bringing some of the younger ones who was, you know, down under me, my age. And I bought them, I bought them in the fold. Yeah. You know, so my age group, you know, I, you know, I end up in that gap for the fighting stuff to get to get money. Yeah. Right. Right. So, yeah. Wow. So you're the guy. Yeah. When you take a brick for 18,000 from New York that's pure, then you take it to a place like Virginia. You could triple your money practically. Today's episode is sponsored by Mando.

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my exclusive link at trueclassic.com slash connect to save. Once again, that's trueclassic.com slash C-O-N-N-E-C-T, shop now and elevate your wardrobe today. Did you ever supply, like, Pusha? Like, how did those guys, how did that all come into play? Like, how did you meet those guys, the clips, who later became the rap group, the clips. Yeah, I had met them through a guy named Tony Crumbull who used to hang. Him and Ferrell was real tight. He used to, like, dance and stuff.

He grew up with them. But he was the guy who used to cook my cook. Oh, no shit. Yeah, he was the cook because like, um... Tony. Tony. Yeah, his name was Tony too. Um, so he, he's the ones who knew how to make one in the three.

Yeah. You could stretch one kilo into three and it'll still sell. And it still sell. Wow. So I had two cooks actually. It was a guy by the name of Lopez, right? He was Spanish, right? Um, me and him met in high school.

He was from the Lake Erwin area too. used to fight. He used to cook it with the water, you know, with the water weight, you know, hit it, just put a little bit of coke on it and it's good. Tony used to cook it. He can make whatever stay. But the coke is so good that's coming from New York. Like, you can put whatever frill on it. But I was taking one in the three. But the thing was, I'm selling $500 for $500. Killing them. It's the best price. So is that crack already or are you selling powder? No. Crack. Okay. Yeah. I won't sell it. I won't sell it. about no powder right so because you need to keep that powder so valuable you're keeping it for

yourself and turn it all into crack so you can take one tony you would give him a brick of coke and he would turn it into three kilos of crack yeah how much would you pay him to cook because that's a long that's hard work so me not knowing the game you know of that with him being so knowledgeable i get him like four and a half a thousand or four and a half ounces out of ounces okay i mean right Or sometimes, you know, I get him a play on some power. You're like, yeah, just go ahead and take this, you know. Oh, so he's making thousands of dollars off of that. Yeah, yeah.

No, like, that's all he used to do. But he used to do that for people around town. Like, you know, that was his thing. You know what I was? That was a hustle. And he was a dancing partner of Farrell? No, he wasn't no dancing partner of him. You know what I mean?

He just grew up with him. Okay. And he ended up trying to, you know, find his niche. Right. Into the drug game. Not in the drug game. but the music gang. So he used to dance.

And I remember Farrell putting him in Ray J video. The song Farrell wrote for Ray J. My producers are that? Yeah. Couldn't have been a very good song. Yeah. And he sucks. And, you know, it's crazy because I think he had wrote the song for somebody else for Michael.

And Ray Jain ended up getting it, I think. But, so he was trying to find his niche. But the thing was, Farrell was trying to push them towards, see, because you got to understand, all them guys, like Ferrell and they don't, they know about it and, you know, back then, but it was going on in the neighborhood and, you know, where they grew up around it. Like, everybody's, everybody's doing, everybody in it. So they're naive and, you know, so they definitely know about it. But they push you to get off the street, you know what I'm saying? Right. They ain't like, yo, man, you know, this and that.

So he's saying, yo, we was trying to find our niche, you know what I mean? Right. So with Tony trying to set, you know, bring me in, it was the thing of him trying to find it. So he's dancing. But Farrell was trying to tell him, yo, you need to go to dancing school now. You need to do this. You need to do that. But he didn't want to do the ballerina stuff.

You know what I mean? Right. So that right there, he didn't want to go to extra mile to be what Farrell tried to push him to be. Right. You know what I mean? Because to us or probably to his peer, but I'm like, man, what you doing, man? The dust, I'm not crazy.

You know what I'm saying? You ain't people doing that knowing that's the money. Right. You know what I mean? A lot of people are scared to take chances on a certain thing. Yeah. So, and that's why the story of Pusha and Malice who make up the clips is so unique and exceptional.

Kind of like Jay-Z. these guys were pretty much as much in the street as they were in the studio. Most people have to put it down. Like they have to, a young Jeezy, GZ tells a story about how like T.I. told him, hey, you got to put the drugs away. If you want to make this rap happen, like you've got to put this down. And you've got to put yourself all into the music. And he did it.

Like he sacrificed. And that's what all us did when I did become their manager. All us vowed to, hey, ain't no doing that. Oh, okay. know what I'm saying okay so that was the thing okay like yeah we can't be doing this because we about to do that that's one thing about them guys they are very smart very articulate like yeah like did they know like yo I can't you know what I'm saying so okay so it sounds like Tony was your introduce through Farrell through this connection to Farrell Tony was like your introduction to the music

game yeah and he took them to the studio one day okay they're gonna meet them okay and they were making they're making beats and yeah for i was making um he was making beats and um um like i say the guys then was there and they knew of me i like the only reason i knew of them at the time because of the music on the radio right you know and then um once i realized who they were from from another like you know with with push with being from another school um it was like a mutual respect thing, you know what I mean? Because, you know, because the 757 is an area that everybody know what everybody's doing.

So, you know, so if you're messing with this girl or you're doing this, it's kind of like everybody know who the main people are. Yeah. So did you know, and so you met Pusha at the studio with Farrell, who was there? Was Malice, his brother there too? I believe so. I'm not sure. Were they known at this time where they, because everybody kind of knows each

in this area were they known as rappers or as drug dealers they was known at the time as um as being in the street yeah okay so they weren't known for music yet yeah well they had a song out at the time um it was called i got caught dillon you know um and that was the song that was playing when tony first said hey you know so i'm listening to us so he like y'all i know them so that's when he made you know me take me over there yeah so that's like you know and did you recognize you're like oh these cats are nice I mean from listening to the radio I knew I was like yo them you know day day in the street you know I mean right everything I said I say you know they in the street because like you got to understand

it is a thing of like you said when you heard it you was like oh man did they know somebody or they're doing it or you know this and that but you can tell whether you just know somebody or you in the street and you can tell from their rap you're like oh these cats are in the drug game yeah So when I heard them and it was talking about I got caught Dillon at the age of one five. You know, I'm like, dang. Okay. You know what I mean?

So, yeah. But did you recognize their talent in rap right away? Like even from those early songs with Farrell, where you're like, oh, these dudes got it? No. Because I just was hearing the way they put together coat rap. You know what I mean? I'm like. So you didn't see a market for it yet?

No, man, I won't think about that. They weren't thinking about another. I don't think about none of that at the time. I mean, I was because I actually took another guy from my neighborhood with me there because I wanted to, you know, chance. I ended up wanting to try to put the neighborhood on, you know. So that was my main mission was to go in there on some, hey, you know, eventually trying to get, because, you know, we used to all wrap around this and that. But I got to the point of seeing how it works. And I'm like, man, I want to be the CEO.

You know, I want to rap. So I went in there with the mind frame of hopefully start a label or something. You know, I always had debt. You know what I mean? I want to hide my money. But it won't to, for no fame or this and that. I want to hide my money. Because at this time, I got barbershops and hair salons and clothing stores and all that kind of stuff.

So my mind was, you know, my main focus just wasn't even the drugs. You know what I mean? I had, you know, different strings of income. Right. So that's what that wasn't it. So when I'm going there, it was more so of, I'm trying to say. see how I can make some money. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? So. Yeah. Okay. So you were already laundering your money like from the jump. Like as soon as you got put on and you were the kilo man, like you were buying businesses. Yeah. And music was obviously back then was one of the key ways that street cats were trying to wash their money. You know, almost every rap label has some dirty money attached to it, right?

How was that first meeting at the studio with them? You know, just like I said, it was, see, because you got to understand, once Ferrell, because Ferrell was there. So once Farrell saw me, now he's looking like, yo, this, that same boy from fighting and stuff at the high school games, you know what I'm saying. So he already thinking I'm on some R-R-R-R-R-R, because he don't know from the couple of years that's past, you know what I mean, I transitioned into who I was you know what I mean and you know because back then I was I was like robbing and like I started doing all of that before I actually got on but once I did something you know one of my last like heist it was the thing of man I can't do that anymore you know I mean because I don't you know it was a thing of is it's just a feeling of like you ain't trying to be ain't trying to get into

trouble so I was always people just look out of that scary oh man it's scary do anything scary you know but yeah it was a thing of I just didn't want to get in no trouble. Of course. You know what I mean? So he don't know this. All he knows is, yeah, he owns something.

That guy's a gangster. Look out. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then the neighborhood that I represent because everybody know about the neighborhood I represent. Right. You know, so. But what did you guys talk about?

Like, what was that, were you trying to meet? No. So what ended up happening? What was the point of the meeting? No. He was just taking me to the studio. Okay.

He won't take me to meet. He was just like, yo. Yeah. These my guys who, you know, who he basically grew up with. and he knowing all that, you know. So, like I say, I'm just on some, hey, I'm going there trying to make me some money, but they're looking at it like, why are you bringing this guy here?

You know what I'm saying? But everybody else in the room knew what was going on. But it was an uncomfortable feeling from when Ferrell came and he looked like, yo, man, where you all got? Because, you know, everybody used to call me, when you just say my name, you used to say my whole name, you used to say Tony Gonzalez. Oh, man, that's Tony Gonzalez. Oh, that's Tony Gonzalez.

Right. My real name Anthony Gonzalez. But they oh, you're Tony Gonzalez. What was the, so did you jive immediately with, excuse me, with, with Puscha? So did you guys, did Real recognize Real? So yeah, but that was on, it ended up, we ended up going to, not this particular day, but I end up coming back. I end up coming back and, you know, we all got cool and me and pushed it end up jealous.

Did they know you were the man that had the bricks? Yeah, because everybody knows. You had the reputation already. Yeah, but at the time, it wasn't the thing of I had the bricks. It was the thing of, too, is he got the bricks, but he also business mind. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, everybody got the air to the street on certain things. You know what I'm saying?

So they was dealing with a guy by the name of shampoo at the time, right? You know, he used to go crazy. You know, and shampoo ended up getting killed. So it's basically like when he ended up getting killed, and now I'm around, because I end up dealing with shampoo on certain times when I, you know, because you got to understand, by this time, Monk Renee end up getting deported and all that.

So Monk Renee's not around. You know what I mean? Josh is locked up, man. You know what I mean? So I'm pretty much out here by myself, you know? And so we end up getting cool, you know. But they ended up developing to, you know, we'll do with it. So after shampoo got smoked, it sounds like you started supplying these guys.

That's how basically I ended up selling or dealing with a lot of guys in Norfolk. Before then, I'd probably go to a club, you know, clubs or something like that in awful. But I wasn't going to have my uncle. My uncle used to be out like the Yarns, parks and stuff like that, you know, before he got deported. But I wasn't going out there. You know what I mean? I'm a beach boy. like aim but there was pretty much my insight to a whole not area so it sounds like your

market when your uncle got deported you just got more clientele yeah wow so how many how much weight are you bringing down so i'm dealing with this guy he was galenese i don't do this guy his name is on his name was starch right and um he used to go to a pay phone he used to go to a pay phone about the 7-11 i like it was crazy but i used to always see him before i start dealing with him because Because my cousin Type, the one who I told you used to ride past in the vehicle, I'm going to, going to see him. He's dealing with the guy Starch, who I used to see little old Honda cord, right? So he told me one day, yeah, that's the dude who, you know, that I'm getting work from this and that. So I'm like, introduce him to me.

You know what I mean? And end up, I end up talking to him, you know, getting cool. He just ain't like the way I used to flash. Because like I said, he was on the court, you know, like, pay phone. Like, you know, so we end up getting real good. So what he ended up doing, he used to come back with, like, a trash bag full of 30 keys, right? And I probably, at the time, I was probably buying, like, 10. Wow.

What were we paying? With him, I was paying something crazy, like, like 28. Per key? Yes. Holy shit. Yes. But the thing was, it was the best. coat in the world.

Wow. But he wanted, that's how he knew that it was, it was crazy. So, um, he said, but he's to come with the whole 30 and he says, take what you think you can handle. So, you know what I mean? How many would you take? I probably take like 20. You know what I mean?

Sometimes I take the whole trash bag, but, you know what I'm saying? But it was just so high. So, so you stopped going, so was that a better plug than going up and getting the, the good price up in New York? So I end up eventually, so when I ended up getting a clothing store, you know, and I used to, I ended up getting the closing store from another guy who has to deal with. So I used to deal with starch, right? But it was so high that I still had to go elsewhere at the time. So it was a guy I'm dealing with, name AT, and he used to have different businesses and stuff.

Had nail salon, closing store, this and that. So he wanted to sell me the closing store because he was like getting a lot of. out the game of something someone's going on with him so he tells me y'all gonna take you to new york and show you where to go get the clothes from and the whole nine so he takes me to um um chinatown um to bring the clothes back or whatever so at this time i'm every time i probably going like probably once a month so as i'm going up there doing that now i'm going to um spanish harl and i'm going to get to work because right before my uncle ended up getting um deported, we end up stopped dealing with the Panamanians, right?

Right. I remember Brooklyn. Brooklyn between Utica and Dean. Oh, yeah. You're out there in Crown Heights. That's for all the Panamanians. Yep. That's exactly like that's where I was at.

So they end up, the building end up getting burnt up or something like that. So we go up there. They like chilled out for a while. So my uncle told me, he said, listen, y'all hold on to your money and stuff, and we're going to scream them along. Y'all, you know, go out and party out here. You know, so I'm like, all right, all right. But we end up wanting to go and check and see what's going on. We go up there.

They don't got no work. End up. We end up paying them the money. And now we end up going to Spanish Harlem. That's when I first realized Spanish Harlem. and I didn't want to go. We had the money on us. My uncle, like...

How much cash did you? And we've got to have enough for about... Probably about five keys. But this is the crazy thing. Josh is like, you know, he read it because he's the one who was bringing it back. Right? My uncle was the plug.

I'm the one who can get rid of it. Now, they want to go in Spanish Harlem and get some work without our money. I'm scared shitless. I'm like, I don't want to do that. Like, I heard all the crazy stories. So my uncle, like, do you think I'll let something happen to you? Like, really?

And I knew my uncle was like the hardest person in the world of me. You know what I mean? So, you know, and, you know, and, um, so we end up going. Went up going on the block. And I remember all the guys hopping out with the calculators and stuff. I do for you, I do for you. I do for you. And they were selling about a gram.

You know, like it wasn't no, no, I want to, I want a key. I want to, about a gram. So I'm like, how to do you? You think so now we're supposed to... Yeah, I want 5,000 grams, Poppy. Yeah, no, we ain't doing that. You know what I mean? So I end up meeting this guy named Roberto.

And, you know, we're getting cool. And that was our first time dealing with them. So we was going back and forth until, you know, Josh ended up getting up. So then I'm starting to go back with the closing store, getting the clothes. But I'm on a hit them, like, once a month. Right. Ain't making it an average thing. So as I'm home, I'm dealing with starch.

I'm dealing with AT who turn them onto the clothing store. Right. So you're paying more by just staying in Virginia, but you can get more and it's easier. I see what you're saying. Now, this is fascinating. You have all these legal businesses, like the clothing business, were you actually making legitimate profit off that? Or were you just using it to clean your money up?

So I was trying. Yeah. I was trying. But the thing is. I'm right by the mall. I'm across the street from the mall, military circle, right? So now I got to try to get all my friends and different people to come here.

So I'm, you know, I'm doing the flyers, got the business cars, and, you know, you got to call friends. Yo, I'm here, this and that. But now you got to know, I'm expecting them to buy jeans and clothes and stuff from Chinatown. Right, right.

It's not good quality. They already know the lick. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So they're like, yo, like, man, we ain't, we're messing with that. You know what I'm saying? So it became just a front to say,

I had it, you know what I mean? Put my mom up there on the thing and, you know, because I call it Gigi. So it has something to do with her and I just basically gave it to her. Yeah. So now you're, I mean, now you're just on. Millionaire, just moving weight. Are you putting, are you giving material to Pusha and his guys? Back then, when we first started before we, you know, called to quits.

Yeah. Yeah, we was, so it was a thing of, like, I had a separate, it was a separate team, you know, the guys them who I grew up with and all that. And then it was the guys them who was doing the music. But you have to understand with that came trying to clean up too. You know what I mean? So that's why I was always like a hush, hush thing. People saying, oh, man, they didn't really sold no drugs.

Oh, push, I ain't ever did that, this and that. Because it's like, what do you expect for y'all to see me or to get caught for you to know about it? Right, of course. So they kept it. They're being very quiet about it. They were being very quiet about it. But they ran it up, definitely. Yeah.

And they were moving keys for you? They was moving. Yeah. You can say it. Statute is long gone. Statute is long gone. You could say it. So they're moving keys for you?

Yeah, they was moving. Yeah. And were they now wholesale? Like, were you, most of your customers also wholesale guys that were giving it? to street dealers or were they cooking up? So, so most of mine was family. That by I say, it was just family. So it became a point, I stopped dealing with everybody.

And like, you just couldn't deal with me. So you had to deal with them. Okay, so your people were selling powder. Yeah. That's how high up you were. You were just dropping it off to a couple of guys. Yeah. And they were all selling crack.

You know what I mean? No, no, I'm saying you're the people that you're dumping keys off to, it sounds like they were also high up enough to be given powder out wholesale to their people. Yes. Got it. Yes.

Because I'm still, like, I still have starch and then I still have that. New York. So I got a combination of variety. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, because I always had the demand of prices, different prices. You know what I mean?

Was there a different quality in the Coke when you went up to New York versus getting it from starch? Yes, very. Because in New York, they celebrate. about a gram, but it could be, it can be a couple of dollars more for different coke. So they like, you know how like you got different strains of weed. They had different grades of coke. Okay, hold on, but how would you coddle together?

If you went up with $100,000, how would you coddle together five kilos, 5,000 grams out of just buying grams? One at a time. I don't get it. What to mean? How would you put together five keys if they only sell one, at a time. No, so.

Make that makes sense. So it's a different thing. So we'll probably get probably like three, two, you know, all depending on our method of getting it back. But that's what we had to do. You know what I'm saying? But when I'm by myself, it was a whole different ballgame. But it ended up.

So like in my book, right, I broke it down like this. We're going to New York. So my uncle, this hour. we end up stop messing with New York. I goes and I tell um damn I can't think his name. Doesn't matter nobody knows them so I said um edit okay so so I tell Eddie I'm like to my uncle said yo Eddie don't know English so my uncle speaking Spanish to him whatever so my uncle came up with his plan he said listen because we would never he would never front us they'll only give us what our money a lot that's why we say man ain't gonna get the five ain't gonna get the four because of the

price. So I'm telling to my uncle like, I'm going to get them to front us. So he says, he tells them we want more than what we want because he's figuring he'll bring the big man out, right? Because we used to meet him at, we used to meet him at a, it was like a company with like the phone cards. So, you know, and, you know, all them in there talking to that. So that's what we used to meet them at. So like when we're getting like the two and the three, this and that, but we tell them, you want more, this and that. But he can't negotiate no price. He's probably getting, you know, like a point of two or whatever. Right.

So he's like, no, this and that. So my uncle told him one day, yo, we won't five keys, right? And so he's like, yeah. So now he got to go and haul out somebody because he's like, yeah, these things want five keys for the same way you're asking that question. Like, who does that? Right. But my uncle is tired of doing that too. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? So he ended up setting up a meet. Because the big guy now wanted to see us. We're in the restaurant. So we go to the restaurant. Now I got the guy, remember I told you, the guy Drew, who used to build my uncle back in the day. I got Drew with me, and I got my uncle with me.

Josh wasn't getting me there. Josh was locked up. Their job was locked up at the time. So as we're sitting in the restaurant, the plan was for when they asked, you know, for the money, my uncle could get into saying, hey, I wanted to meet you. you know, this and that, we only got,

they only had enough for, like, two keys on us. And we ordered them five. So my uncle trying to break it down to him, that was he figured he's going to explain to him, this and that. As we're sitting down, the first thing, you know, my uncle ready to try to explain to him, they don't want to talk.

They're like, yeah, we're going to eat first. You know what I mean? All I'm speaking Spanish, you know what I mean? I'm picking up on a little bit of it. You know, I'm like, all right, cool. By time he finished eating, and my uncle ready to tell him what's going on, I got my cousin outside and I had a,

I think a green act lecture at the time. She's in the car, right? Because she was gonna bring it back. Right? My uncle tell them, yo, we only got this, that. Now they're freaking out. There's another guy who keep coming back and forth, right? When my uncle tell them, you only got half the money,

you know, this and that one in the front, this and that man do like went off like, you know, how can you do this? Well, that's bad business and, you know, He didn't care about, you know, the simple fact of that he said, we're lying it. But the thing was, they had sent somebody already out to the car already, right? And was trying to, you know, actually set it up. Actually took the work, put the work inside the vehicle, right?

End up, once they found out we all the money, somebody end up coming back, taking that, taking whatever out. And we only have enough for a key and a half. They don't do halves. They only do holes. So we end up just getting the key with them being mad. So they did give us the key. Right. So, but the thing was, the whole time we didn't hear, they still got people out there.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, man, we end up leaving with just the key. Yeah, Dominicans suck. Anyways, no, I've heard these terrible stories about people trying to cop work from Dominicans. It's all over the place. Like, they have to coddle together everything.

So it sounds like, it sounds like the main work was coming from your guy in Virginia. What was his name? Starch? Yeah, Starch. So how was he able to get such quantity and such good Coke? Who is his plug? Well, you know, fast forward, not to go too fast, when I end up

hopping out of the game to go ahead and do the music, I end up passing Starch to my wife, cousin, right? Another guy from the neighborhood and he started dealing with Starch's.

by the time I ended up hearing about starts again, he ended up getting hit and set up in Miami by one of his connects, something like that. That was the story that ended up coming up. I end up seeing him. I end up seeing him in the federal prison. Wow. No shit.

So you ran into him. So he got set up by his connect. He got set up by his connect too. Wow. Were they Colombians, you think? I don't know. Because that's a crazy plug to have. Yep.

Right? Yeah. Did he ever have? And it was there? And it was actually in the newspaper and everything. thing that, you know what I was like, wow. How much time did he have? He was a good, like, like for him to get caught, that's how he had to get caught because he was so low. So low. Yeah. It's always those guys, the guy that drives the Honda Civic that isn't flashy. He's the

one that has the weight. Yeah, he's, um, they end up deporting. They're in deporting. Where is he front? He's Panamanian. No, he was Gallinese. Gallinese. Yeah. Guyana, South, South America. Yeah. Wow. tiny little country yeah but he had the plug plug okay so he was he was bringing it in giving it to you and your supply and did he have other guys like you in the virginia area or were you his main distributor you would never know it starts right you never tell you yeah you could know it starts but what end up happening was my uncle finally end up getting back to panama right so i end up start going to panama now so so you got imagine i'm going to panama

now too. Because my uncle's back there. Okay. How did your uncle get caught? Okay. So my uncle ended up getting caught. He ended up getting set up. He ended up getting set up down there in Florida, right?

Just what happened? A policeman who, Panamanian, he was a police officer, but he was a dirty cop. Right? And he's selling work. He's actually selling work. So my uncle said he got a plug down there. He always got to plug in Florida. It was like that's where he was always going down to it.

If it wasn't New York, he was going to Florida. So he goes down there, actually caught the bus down there and everything. And he's down there. The police officer end up putting him on the wrong bus. Because he was, my uncle going down there so the guy can look out for him. So the guy gave my uncle some work and he gave him a gun. So it was two stations, it was two bus stations that you can leave out of, right? One of them is the one that nobody goes because you,

you're gonna get hit. The other one, they ain't tripping on. He ended up taking my uncle to the bad one. We end up finding this out later. He ended up taking my uncle to the bad one. My uncle got caught on that bus headed back to Virginia. With how much? Man, don't give me the line,

but I know probably was about at least two, three keys probably, at the time. And how long did he go away for? So what happened was, now this is me now just coming into my own too, but I'm still trying to find, you know the solid plug yeah so so um he end up um calling me i end up going down there and um you know bonding them out getting them out we end up finding the guy house the policeman yeah my uncle you know he traced his steps in the whole nine and we end up finding

the house so he goes to the house he's banging on the door do acting like he ain't home and um You know, so he ended up on going back, we ended up back to Virginia, and he got put on probation. Like his first or second time going to see his PO, they grabbed him. And that's when they ended deporting him. He ended up doing time in Texas. How long did you do? How much time did he do? He did five years and then he deported.

Okay. So now he's back in Panama, and after this time, after these five years, you're now on. Your business has exploded. Yeah. So you go down there and see him. He's in Panama City, right? Yeah, Panama City. He's from the hood down there, believe, right?

Yeah. What is that neighborhood down there in Panama City called? He's from La Bogotong. La Bogotong. Uh-huh. Okay. Out Rio Bajo, you know, and Fourth Street. Okay.

And that you got to say, when you ask him, he'll say all that. Fourth Street. But he, you know, during the five years, and then they, you know, they're deporting. Well, of course. that's what they do. Yeah, it would be dope if you just got caught and they just deported you. But they make you do your time and then they deport you. So I end up going to the first carnival, country carnival.

So that's how it started. Right. Me going to the country carnival, going there to see him. And at the time when he's getting back, he's still wide open now, you know. And so when we're going out there, I'm like, hmm. You know, so he turned me on the different people and stuff. And I'm not finding out, you know, the craziest numbers. You know, I'm talking about 10,000 for a cure heroin, 2,500 for a Kia coat.

Yeah. Like, we forget about it. Yeah. Yeah. Like. Oh, so that keys of heroin in Panama, too. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Coming from Columbia, probably. Yeah, we're getting for 10,000. 10,000 to key. Okay. So now you're in Smack, too. Yeah. Wow.

That's why, you know, that came up, you know, the whole Panama thing or whatever. That's crazy. That's how I started going there. How would you get a, and you could just kill him. If you can get a kilo of beige hair on back to Virginia, you could sell that for what, like 100,000 wholesale? So let me tell you. Yes.

So I was sending for 100,000, I was setting for 100,000, no cut, no, no, 10. No wonder people think I'm a Fed. I'm just so precise. I just know, I just know numbers. It is crazy. I'm so good, bro. Let me get back in the drug. Fuck this podcast.

This episode ain't coming out, Bill. Please, though. Please, I'm just playing. But, yeah. Yeah, so the thing is, I can't get into the, I'm going to give one method because it's a method that I came up with. Okay. But the other one, I can't, because I don't know if it's still going on until this day. You want to give up the route?

Yeah. Okay. Because that's one thing I can't do. You know what I'm saying? I don't, you know. Understand. What was your route? But the thing was, at the time, it was so quick and efficient.

you only could do, you only could send in one package, right, a half a key at a time. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, so I will say that. But I came up with a method, right? It was, they used to do liquid. And the same people, because they tell you, they had different varieties.

So they used to do liquid crap. So I used to take these jellyfish. So you know, like the little things that you shake, you got the jellyfish, the starfish, and they got the liquid stuff in the inside. Yeah, it's like an ornament that you put on like a mantle. And it's, yeah, it's like a kid's toy. Yeah.

Yeah. That's how I used to do. I had a Coke in there. Wow. Into these little glass balls with liquid? Yeah. And it wasn't glass. It was like a, it was like a plastic. Harder plastic.

Like, you know what I'm saying? How did you come up with that? Me being out there trying to figure out ways and just trying to just trying to figure it out. And that's just how my, like when I told you, my, like, when I bought think about someone I'm selling some of whatever it is I literally sit back for a while smoke my weed and and I zone out and the devil my method I came up did you have somebody help you yes yes so so so so once I put them on I end up putting them on to it you know I mean I went to them like on some hey if I can do this you know and so they end up they end up helping me

end up doing it right but that was like I said that was my method though right okay so how much material could you get back at a time with that method. Boxes. But the thing is, it all had to weigh the same. That's where people get things. You know, you get caught, you get knocked off. Because if I got, even when it come down to the box, all the ornaments in one side, they got it all the way the same.

Right. To make it through customs. Yeah. Because customs weighs it. And if one box of the same goods is off, why is that? Unless you got some heavy tape around and something, but.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Oh, right, right. Okay, so you get back boxes of this liquid. Was it heroin or was it Coke? Wow. So how much weight would that come out to? Each box was like, man, so this is the thing.

It wasn't a thing of saying like, oh, we're going to put a key in here or we can put this in there. You know what I'm saying? But it was like, I think each thing was probably like, each box was like 5,000 pounds of crack. Yeah. So you get, so that's like 2,200 keys. 2200, no, no, but we want 2,200. It was probably about good 20, 30 keys. Oh, I see.

The boxes weighed that much, but you get about, after you strained it all out, you get like 20 or 30 bricks. Okay. Yeah, and you literally got to cook it all. Like, you really got to poke the hole and, you know what I mean? They actually had it right. Wow.

So how long would it take you to drain it? Like when it made it to the States, how long would it take you to get it ready? So how I ended up doing it was each person had to end up doing their own. I'm not doing that. So each box, like you'll get a box, you'll get a box. So everybody had their own box. Wow.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so, and you're paying $2,500 for these keys from Panama? So I'm paying $2,500 for a key of powder. Yeah. So what are you charging for a key off crack? So I got a cook.

So I have to, so I have to, it's, it's, it's, more money now once it's coming back oh you know what I mean because I'm doing everything over here yeah yeah you're getting it already there yeah it's being scratched and everything you know I mean right yeah so you take one key of powder and how how many in Panama what would one key of powder stretch to crack wise oh man I don't know I was I was too big or four probably yeah wow and then what are you selling them after what are you giving me your people in Virginia for at the time man it was so good it was going for

like $1,000 a ounce, a crack. So you sell the birds for 36,000? See, yeah. If you got crack, you know what I mean? It was like, you're going to bust it down. Pause. No, no, I'm talking about what you're giving it to your people. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So when I'm giving it to my people, they're getting it for a straight deal, you know what I'm saying? Like 20? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I probably like 18. Yeah. You know, something like that. You know, the same thing I'm getting to work. The same thing I'm getting the key for a powder.

Yeah. Because I'm getting extra, I get them the same thing. Right. See, because like I said, I was always that guy that I want to make sure that the team is right. Oh, yeah. So I wasn't going to try to milk the system. So wherever I had something, I'm always going to put, say, like a dollar on it, which I call $1,000. You know what I mean?

I put a dollar on it. So if I got 50, I make $50,000, I'm cool. Right. I don't need to make a trillion dollars off that one package. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But in this case, it was the thing of, if I'm getting it for, this, I'm going to make sure I show love.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, but at the same time, it's your lick, so you deserve to make a little more. You have to. Wow. You don't understand that. So they were loving you. Your people were loving you.

Yeah. Wow. Would you get Heron back the same way? No, so like I said, the heroin came back a different way, but I couldn't. You can't give up that route? Yeah, I can't give up that? But can you answer me this? I assume it's through freight.

like the cocaine was, meaning like, I assume you weren't sending it on speedboats or having chicks swallow it. Like, I assume it's through like a commercial method. Can you answer that at least? Mew. There you go. That's a commercial method. Okay.

Yeah. No, it's fascinating. I asked that because I just had a guy on and we were talking about like how Trump and can stop. Can he stop the cartels? Can he stop fentanyl? It's like, no. You can just use fetal.

But anyways, yeah, it's fat. And it's been happening for a long time. So are you spending more and more time down in Panama? Do you get a place down there? Yeah. Like, how do you manage going back and forth? Back then? Yeah.

So I just said the casino. Because they got a casino rate, like the hood is like down the street, basically, from the casino. There always is. Yes. Go to Atlantic City. Yes, I just had the casino. Because my uncle, you know, his, you know, he's, you know, he's, you know, he's stayed in the hood at this time.

You know, mother and, you know what I mean? One bedroom. Hot is on the what, you know? You're getting all this money, though. Like, don't you upgrade his living a little bit? No. At this time, no. Because you got to understand.

They are so poor, right? When it was that they're not going to spend their money on that. They're not spending their money on, yo, let me go get a new house. Let me go do this. No, they ain't doing none of that, right? But I had, like, the guys and them, like my friends, them who are down there,

I used to take them shopping. I used to buy, I'm talking about getting haircuts, shopping, the whole line. But it was so poor. It was like every time when I would come, as I'm riding, riding to the hood, everything I bought, I see somebody with it. Somebody might got some fruit or someone in the head and they got the same clothes that I bought my man King Kong. I'm like, yo, I bought King Kong good. But that's how closer, you know, everything gives. And, um, but they were so, so, um, like, I remember when I first started going.

It was like eight guys down there because I was going to try to get them to, to the state, which I'm glad I won't because these are certified killers. These young boys, now it's so crazy because, like, if I show you pieces of them then and like, and I take you down there and you see them now, you can be like, yo, did that's dude? Like, they're so different now. They're working and stuff. Yeah, yeah. But when I first go down there, barely, like, like, you.

No English. The first words King Kong said to me was, kill out, kill out. When you're a juvenile down there and you kill somebody, me you're coming straight home. Right. And they wanted me to bring them to the States. So I was working. I was actually working on that. Wow.

But father my uncle and father my uncle money, he takes care of the whole area. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And when you're making so much money, like in places like that, you stay in that area. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm not, they're not thinking about,

their mind isn't like us. Like my uncle hit my mind like us and say, yo, I'm gonna spend this moment, give me a new car, I'm gonna get this. They don't think like that. You know what I'm saying? Which is a good thing, you know what I mean? They want to be kings of their,

yeah, and I'm gonna hold my money, you know what I'm saying? Like, I need this, see, they think different, they think generation. Right. You know what I mean? That's the difference. Yeah. Smart.

You know what I'm saying? Smart. But obviously you were thinking that too. So now that you have this, you're working with your uncle and you have this Panama route, you're making crazy money. I assume you're like a seven-figure guy now. You must have been thinking longer term, right?

It seems like your brain is like that. Like did you think, okay, now I got to make an exit? So all, like I said, all this is before the music. Right. So my mind is the same thing as my uncle, because I'm learning from him, you know. So my mind is to save. put up, get businesses, like, so, so the people don't come pick you up.

You know what I mean? I really know about the fares, but you know what I mean? We'll be watching the wire and stuff like that, you know what I'm saying? But it was the thing of, like, I need to say, I don't want nobody to look at me like a drug dealer. Right. Like that's one thing I never wanted. Like I don't want you to think, oh man, he gets money from drugs. Like that just scare me.

Like, man, I just opened up this. Oh yeah, you know he sells drugs. Oh my God. Right. No. You know what I'm saying? That wasn't my thing. I didn't want fear.

You know what I mean? I'm not to fear me. You know, people think told them to fear. Like, I don't, I don't want any of that. You know what I'm saying? So, so. How did that lead to the music business then?

How did the music business come into play? Because I ended up meeting bigger connects when I got into the music game. Bigger than you already have? Man, I'm going to tell you the honest truth. Back then was so much fun when it came to, like, like before the music and, the doing it the way you, you know, just that drive, right? And it was like a steel grind because I'm still, even though I had the money and I had like all the cars from the GS when Jay-Z first said, you know, came out with Dead Predus and he had the green, like, I had to get that Lex. You know what I mean?

Love that Lex. From like I said with legends to the Acuras to the, you know, being like me watching my uncle and then that's what I did. Right. Right. And it was amazing, man. So how did this leave? I still feel like I was a corner boy. You know what I'm saying?

Even though I had the money and it wasn't on the corner, I still felt like I was a little boy because my plugs was plugs. And like I said, even with going, you know, to the Panama's and stuff like that, it was a thing of getting into music and meeting the plugs that I got. And there was like big boy plugs. What do you mean by that? meaning when I say big boy

plus because that's big boy like in a whole other country but from being in the States you know what I mean if you can get work to your doorstep that's what I call big boy plug right you know what I'm like if I got to go get it

yeah now I got to work right now that's a lot of sweat equity like you said well before and I feel like I get paid more because I'm the one going to do this going to do that if it get not I'm out of money

she other kind of connects that were like, how many new, you need 20? I'll have them there by next week, and they'd be there. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So how did these new plugs, how were they involved in the music business? So how my first one, it was a guy in Texas, Mexican, and he wanted to do a feature.

He wanted to do a feature with the guys with music. But with which guys? With the clips. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They came up from this was early on.

And I charged them like something crazy. I didn't think they were even going to pay it. He was a rapper? Yeah, he was a Mexican rapper. Yeah. Wow. Okay. His name was something red.

Okay. Something red or something like that. They probably got the video somewhere that's so crazy. Wow. And we did that video and the guy who came up, I ended up charging them like, man, I want to say like, I want to say like 50,000 or something crazy like that. Just for a feature, a clips feature on their shit. Yeah.

Wow. And I charged them keys and I gave the guys the money. So you charge them in keys and then you sold it and then paid out the 50. I bought like he basically gave it and and I get yeah. Holy shit. And that's how he became my plug. Wow. Did this, does history know that?

No. But in my, that's crazy. But in my paperwork, it says, because he ended up going through the airport, and he had some money orders, right, that I end up giving them. Yeah. They came from a show, right? We got paid from a show. And because I had an accountant in New York by the name of Burke Padale.

Everybody used this accountant, right, to a point Biggie put him in the rhyme. I stash more dough than Burke Padale. I don't remember that. Yeah. Yeah. And he used to, he was real good at what he do. I feel like I was talking about it. Okay, so, but it sounds like you're already, when you meet this rapper who's basically a drug dealer

trying to break into the rap game, it sounds like you're already working with the clips. Yeah, well, I give this guy the money orders instead of sending the money orders to the office in the yard, right, to their office. And so I take them on the orders. This is me being lazy. Like, that was me just really being lazy.

And I had my wife go to, I think her name was on it or something. Where the actual money orders that came from the show, I end up giving it to the guy. Okay. No, not the guys, but the plug, right? And he goes and get caught with that in the airport. Oh, shit. And that's what happened.

That was my paperwork. And is that how they built it? the case on you? That was one of the ones who was involved because he had something else going on that I didn't know about. And he and I'm getting knocked off or whatever. And that's what he ended up telling, which if it's in there, he ended up saying. Okay.

Let's back up, though. How did you, I want to know how you started getting down with the clips. Like, you've already met these guys. You're bringing in work from Panama. How did you become, how long did that take before you, like, became their manager before you saw it? Like, how did that all form? So, you know, just like I said, we're dealing with Pretty Tony, Tony, right?

They called him Pretty. So when they took me there, then, like I said, inevitably shampoo ended up dying. Then I end up starting to deal with him then. Okay. Got it. So obviously they're already picking up material from you. They're already picking up work in the street. How did that at what point and what year did you?

say okay I want to I want to manage you guys so it ended up becoming the thing of like Lord willing dropped in 2003 that was where they blew yeah so what year did you get down with first get down with them and start managing them so their first album was the funeral that came up right um like a letter so when they end up you know getting out that deal they were searching for another deal okay and I guess the thing I believe that's when they put out the I got called Dill record that I had. Right. Right. So at this point, when they still running for their deal and, you know, everybody, you know, they're running for the deal. I'm not even thought of about being

their manager, right? I'm just on the scene of, you know, we're in the streets, you know what I'm saying, whatever's going to be. So when certain people is coming to do a song or something like for real, everybody who comes and they want whatever they want, weed or whatever this and that, yeah i basically got somebody who got the weed and right now you know i mean so now i'm being that guy right you're kind of being like the fixer for these artists you're getting them what they want yeah yeah you know or push would be like yo you know coming hey sunset's coming you know what saying so you know i mean um and then it became a point um being pusher got so tight that he was basically remember i told you like it had to be a secret thing right so

I remember times when I was hot, you know what I'm trying to figure out who should I get what, and you know what I mean, he would be that one to be like, yo, you know, we need to do this. You need to do that. You know what I'm saying? And hold on because you got to understand we're dealing with Panama, that first album, me and him and going to Panama together. So, you know, he talks about that and his rap. Yeah. So he ended up going out there meeting my uncle Renee.

you know and getting involved i mean you know he ended up he ended up me monke rene so when he ended up meeting him was they getting involved but he was he moving material back i i never say that i don't know what but i introduced him to my uncle rene i see you know what i'm saying so now the thing of of him him knowing you know what i'm saying like you know what i mean he right he knew the whole operation wow yeah he's in so you guys were tight yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so you know but it was the thing like I said, it was the thing of a secret. Yeah. So, like, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. You know, like, like I said, he was one of the smartest ones to be like, you know, I don't want that, but I got to, you know what I mean? I got to put it in my rots at this time. I make my money. You know what I'm saying? Right. But I don't really want them people to know, you know what I'm saying?

So it was almost like you guys were business partners before the, you became their manager. It was. Wow. Wow. It was. So you guys both. both had your own money from the street, but obviously they wanted this rap shit.

You didn't really have ambitions to go legit, but you just thought, okay, I can become their manager and wash the money. Was it just another money washing mechanism? Like I said, I didn't want to, but I guess it was the thing of being in Virginia and whoever got the dope got the streets. You know what I'm saying?

do you mean whoever got to work yeah whoever name is ringing they got to work you control the streets you know what i'm saying so now if and like i say even with him being who he is and people you know know and people don't know that that he got access to whatever and he doing whatever it is they know me right and then on top of that like i say from the places where i'm from in virginia to 757 like all them era that I actually named, I like basically grew up with all the main guys that I still basically talked to till this day that's like growing out the streets and the whole nine. So you can imagine for the relationship that I had. And if you talk about Virginia Beach, that that's my name.

You know what I mean? So now it's the thing of, dang, if he got the streets, it comes with the rapping thing and it comes with, you know what I mean? Now we can tell a story with it. Right. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. Okay.

So then what year did you become their manager? So I had to become their manager because, you know, Dan up coming to me and I think we think of trust, you know, like, yo, he got, you know, he got his own money, you know. He don't know nothing, but at the same time he can grow up, right? And figure it out. But you're really going to have to do this or you will get, five. You know what I'm saying? Like, like we just can't take a chance. You know what I'm saying? We're going to take a chance, but, you know. So they ended hook him up with a guy that by the name of Mike Odom. Mike Odom was Rob Walker, which was Farrell's manager. Right. Right. Mike Odom worked for Rob Walker. He was an assistant. So they end up putting me and Mike together. So Mike can kind of show me. Right. Eventually, Farrell,

came and said that we had to pick one because we was both learning you know what I mean and I was and at the time I was trying to you know I was trying to figure it out you know I mean because these guys trusted in me to for whatever reason it is right you know what I'm saying to bring money right what is the function of a music manager like what what was your role for that so my role was at the time was um which I took it upon myself you know what I'm saying to to to to to book the shows, right? That was one of my things. So I ended up going early on to,

with being in New York, going to Arista. It was Arrestor. And going outside, Minglingly meeting people, going to, like, networking. I ended up meeting this guy by the name of Peter Sykes from America Child agency. Okay. Jewish guy.

Me got real cool, right? First guy that came to him and said, I want to give you a deal. on being your booking agent. Right. I want to give you X amount of dollars for a certain amount of shows, you know, this and that.

I ain't really understand it too much, but I'm like, damn, so you're going to give me this and that. So I go running past the guys. I'm like, yo, I got this guy opportunity and we end up taking that deal. So he ended up giving us some money for some, you know, for some shows.

And I learned a lot from Peter. You know, he keeps to say this thing. Man, I don't teach you how to Jew ball. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. spend too much money and go out here and we can have

we can have immaculate time and you can spend no money you know what I mean and I'm talking about like people was my guy so he taught me a lot of the game of how to do shows and promotions and all the stuff like that

so I ended up putting that into my you know bag and I started because I was soap by the management I didn't start in soap by the entertainment so then I started doing like and I ended up just and started doing a tour and stuff like that Yeah.

Then we had a road manager, but that was still my thing going on the road and all that wouldn't so I can network and meet people. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like putting everything together, making sure both of them comfortable. It's trying to broker deals. I end up going to – so when he ended up firing – they end up firing Mike, right? Right. And it kept me.

Grinding had just hit. Oh, God. Right. we ended up getting on a Winnebago going the whole East Coast. Wow. Promoting it. Promoting it. I remember Sightful Sound was the first person to come and he ended up playing it for Hot 97.

Wow. Flex wasn't, I think he was subbing in to something, so he ended up playing it. And that was when Hot 97 was like the access point. They were the gatekeepers. Yeah. Yeah, that was big. But before that hit right there, it was a thing of we had a record that really wasn't moving. And we needed to do certain things.

So when they fired Mike, they said they want me to go find somebody to help out. And the different people, they enter kicking names and became Chris Lighty. So I don't go into Chris Lighty to violate it and saying, hey, you know, would you partner up? You know, it's in that. Because I look at it like, use my mind again, I'll get 20% of everything, right? But if I'm getting 20% of nothing. So I get somebody 10% so I can have 10% or something. Right.

You know, so. And Chris Lighty, for people that don't know, Violator Records, he was like a real influential, I guess, independent record mogul, record producer back in the 90s in the early 2000s. So grinding, it was their breakout hit.

I heard about, you know, everybody, when the video dropped, it was like a nationwide sensation. I mean, we were fucking bumping it in Portland, Oregon. You know what I mean?

So was Chris Lighty, was he responsible for making, making out record like go as big as it does so no so it ended up hitting it in it end up hitting before i end up actually really getting with chris okay right but the thing was right right before we got with chris i did a couple of deals i did um it was a thing of um member dub magazine so i had dub magazine and i was cool with the guy over there like jeremy just jeremy I think it was. So I was cool with him. Then I ended up getting cool with this clothing company that was called Ennego Red or something like that. I ain't really like the name. They wanted to do some business.

I told them, no, if y'all ever changed the name or whatever. So they had a parent line called Lock 29. And at the time I was like wearing a lot of iceberg and stuff. So it was like a knockoff kind of version of iceberg. So I ended up putting a deal together with Dole Magazine. They guess all rooms for our cars. And they had us on the cover with the lot 29. Mm-hmm. Gotcha. And, you know, I tried a bunch of money and stuff,

but I eventually end up using them, you know, to get money from for help with hours and stuff like that for promotions and stuff. Right. Okay. Got it. Okay. So you're doing, you're basically managing their whole careers. You're helping with them. the tours, you're getting them promotion,

getting them sponsorships, brand deals, shit like that. And then 2003, the album comes out. It's a fucking sensation, right? And at the same time, you're still bringing in work. So when we made that pack, once we

signed that deal, it was a pack that we wasn't going to touch nothing no more. Okay. Nobody's touching anything. leave it like leave it alone and did you think that was it you're like wow i'm not finally out of the dope yeah i mean i got my first check i got my first check um they was so fair though we had got the first we got a publisher check i remember and it was for um 500 000 right um ferell took 500 the guys took 500 for public and um they end up getting mike his cut letting him get him get

that and they fired them. Yeah. And I end up getting like, I think like $50,000 or something like that. And I had debt and then I got another check for something else for like 150,000. So now I'm saying this and I ain't got to. Yeah. And risk your life. Yeah. You know what I mean? So yeah, I'm loving it. You know what I'm saying? You must have had money saved and put aside from the game. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So you're good. But now as soon as I got that, soon as I got that check and now it's like, okay, I can go. Because I was like I was getting all the, all the, I always had every Like vehicles, like I said, from the Cadillac trucks, like all that stuff. But now, once I get debt, now I'm like, oh, I can show something now.

So I went straight and got the, this one of the 745 first came out. I went straight and got 745. When they got the big house, the baby mansion, you know what I mean, a riverwalk. Now I'm showing the money. You've never spent any money. No, you can finally spend some money. No, I spent money because I'm, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Well, I show it. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. But now I can show it, though. Right. I can literally go and say, we can buy an asset. Yeah.

Or, you know, even though commodity, even though the money had just got, you know, if you had the credit and all, that's something you can do it. But I'm looking, I'm, you know what I mean,

I'm showing more than what I actually did. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? And, yeah. Okay, so it's an exciting time. How long are you able

to stay out of the game for? So, and just be a music manager. So, Irvin was, the guy in Texas, he was going out right when the music thing started happening. You're a Texas park. You talked about the guy that got on the song and paid you in Kilo. Yeah, right.

So he's going by this time. Got it. After we did, like, I'm talking about vans. Like, he actually had a bus, right? Because he had buses come with, like, a whole bunch of, like, Asian people on it. Mexicans on it. And they're driving. I don't know where they're going on or nothing.

But they'll stop on the side of the road and I sent somebody and I used to get the work from him Wow and that's how they got it across the border or got it got it to you and and that's how I got it with me, you know Wow and he used to do the on trucks and stuff and come through the trucks out and do all that you know like his thing his main thing was like a lot of wheat his thing was like mm-hmm and you know like I said he also had to cook too but it was more so weak right But now he's out of the picture he's out when the music thing's going Music thing going. Everything's, you know, going crazy. But I'm still, I'm not in the hood, but, you know, my family is still my family.

So my family's still rocking. Everybody, my, I got little cousins. I got everybody still rocking and rolling. And I end up, I'm on tour. We're on tour. What Chris Lyddy did do, which bought, because at the time he was managing 50 cent and Fat Joe and Buster Rimes, Missy Elliott, he managed all of them guys.

And 50 was done a tour. So he put us on tour with 50 cent. I haven't got footage of that. Wow. You were opening for 50 cents. Yeah, we opened for 50 cents. Yeah. And we went to Europe and was opening for Jay in Europe the year that Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl

because he was a Tampa Bay fan. Jay Z? Yes, he was a Tampa Bay fan. And I remember us going to do that. And I didn't get him a bottle of crystal too because he put us, I went where the guys was like, yeah, let's get him a bottle. Yeah, yeah. So they sent me to get some bottles for him.

Yeah. And I went and got two bottles. Actually, the hotel was actually, we were staying in had them. Okay. And it's so crazy. This is before I'm even realizing all of that was going. Like me sitting back and looking at everything was going on there. I'm like, wow.

Yeah. I'm like, wow. Like, I was really in London. I think it was London with Jay Z here. crew watching the Super Bowl. Yeah. She went Tampa Bay One. Wild.

Time of your life. Time of my life. Fast forward. Fast forward. We end up going to that, the guys end up getting into a record label beef. With jive and Arisler went to jive and all that things. So I'm still grinding, trying to find shows and stuff. Right.

So this is how I end up meeting my plug. This is so crazy. that I got locked off for. Farrell comes and say, no, push her coming in, he said, listen, we don't got no songs out, we don't got anything. No, we don't got nothing at the time, right? But what I used to do, every state that we went in, I got with the DJs, right?

Because I learned from, is a guy by the name of Jay Wans, right? He's actually with, like, sexy red, I think, right now. But he dealt with the money back yo. He goes. He goes all right back to trial. Quest. Like when we used to, he used to move the record pool, right? So I had all them on tour, right? So, um, so Farrell comes and he said, listen, Blackoutes is, is doing a tour. That would you tell Pushing. Pusser comes to me and said, yo, we need to get on this tour.

I'm like, all right? We don't got no music, we don't got nothing. You know what I mean? Is this before Hell Haphn's Fury? This is. Which is their second album? Whatever year, the Sprite Liquid Mix Tool with the Blackout piece, they was leading it. But I want to say it was right before Hell. Right before Hellathstone Fury? Because they were doing a bunch of mixtapes after Lord Willing with the re-up gang and shit like that. So they were street guys, but they, like, they were really, really doing, like, great hood music. But they didn't have a lot of buzz.

Like, they hit really hard, but you're right. They didn't have a lot of, they needed another mainstream kind of bump. Yeah. So this is this time. Okay. So like 2007, right? 2006, 2007, I think. Okay.

So I tells, yeah, exactly. So I tells my man Jay Wands, I say, listen, what we got to do is, I said, but this is why he's so good too. Like, like, as I still to this day, he's still relevant to this day. I tell him, I said, listen, we got to get the clips on this, on this tool. Right. I talked to Blackoutes and they'd say, yo, we can give you $250 probably on this day.

This day you might do it for free, but we can have some food for y'all, you know, per damn, this and that. And it's like 30 days, something like crazy. So I'm like, why the hell do we supposed to do this? $250? Yeah. We won't make it. We didn't have no song out.

Right. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like, you had nothing to sell. Yeah, like, you know what I mean? So I tell us, Jay, I said, Jay, I need you. Because every time when we went to these different states and stuff, when I used to do these shows and stuff, I used to get with the DJ, right?

Through J-1s. And that's actually to get my smoke. But also, I didn't want to buy it from them. I tell them, you go, take me to who got it. I want to go to the hood. So now as I'm going to go get my smoke, I'm getting with them guys. I'm like, yo, y'all come to the show, this and this and that. That's how I'm getting guys to hold us down.

Wow. That's how you're getting people out to the show. shows too. Yeah. So now I'm actually dealing with these guys too. You know what I'm saying? So I end up calling, I end up calling each one of them. Hey, listen, man, we're ready to do a show with the black eyepie's out there. I ain't heard nothing about it.

I know. Get a club. We're going to do a show. We're going to do a clip after party for that show, right? Give me $2,500. And I need hotel rooms. I need hotel rooms. I need $2,500.

If you don't get the money and all, We'll go half. Give me $12.50. We'll go half and we'll split the money out of the door. The Eclipse will come there. We can go ahead and do a song, a song or two. But they're still hot enough for that. Right.

For the smaller clubs, small rooms and shit. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So now I'm getting money from each state that I'm going because I remember the guys who I had dealt with. Right. Then I goes to lot 29 because I did deal with them. You know, we got that. So I said, listen, we're going on this tour.

I need you to, um, wrap one side of the bus, but I need the bus. I need you have to pay for the bus, and I'm calling another clothing line to get on the other side. Dan, I'm paying for the bus. So that money is there goes in our pocket. Yeah, right? You know what I mean?

So now I'm in a whole tour and we probably made like $20,000,000. Wow, just doing those little clubs around the country. Just doing the little club, got paid for the hotel room. Yeah. The money I got from Lott 29, got the bus paid for, we ain't spend no money. God, you're great, that was my husband. That was excellent. You're just a great business mind.

That's killer. That's what I bought to the tape. Right. But now we're on this tour. Never mind you. All my family and all of them and my guys from my neighborhood and all them. You know, we got guys coming on tour and stuff. You know what I mean?

These guys still on the street, you know, this and that. Yeah. They finding plugs and doing stuff going back to Virginia. I don't know nothing about it. Right. End up meeting this guy. one of my co-dees found out of him to come to me.

He said, yo, dude out here talking about XYZ. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, man, I got anything to do with that. So he said, man, listen, dude got it. And at the time, it's a drought.

Now, remind you, I never went through a drought. I'd never been through a drop coming up in the whole nine. Because I was always going to get it. You know what I mean? Like, people say, oh, it's a drought, is a drought?

Yeah, because y'all sitting, waiting for it to be at your doorstep. Yeah. I was going to get it, so I never had no drought. I tell him, I say, I'll hollied dude, see what he's talking about. So me and the guy start kicking it. He got a tour bus. He got a tour bus out there.

He's not with us at all. Got nothing to do with us. But he got a tour bus. Everybody else on the tour, whoever, they got buses and stuff, and this guy got a school bus. So I'm going to talk to the guy. He's like talking about work and all. I'm like, but the whole thing is, he's like, you have to sanction it.

I got to say, I got to get the okay. for him to deal with your cousin. Yeah. Okay. Because if something happened, I got to pay for it. So that's all he won't. Interesting.

Okay. So what state with, who is this? Who's the plug with the tour bus? So where was it? So this guy, I don't remember what state he was in. But I'm just going to say his name was Lowe.

Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Low. And man got cool. Black guy? Black guy. Okay. So the guy Lowe, right?

Like he, um, he end up, um, coming and making a proposition. But I told him, I said, listen, you only got to talk to me about it. You can talk to them and I cover it. Because I already know they get money. You know what I'm saying? They ain't going to messing that up because they want the plug. Right. We didn't, that running off on the plug stuff, I don't understand it.

Like, listen, run off on the plug. No, we won't do anything to that. You know what I'm saying? So, so the thing was, um, I vouch for it. So he started hitting them off, and he was cowboying it from Atlanta to Virginia. What I mean by cowboy? You know what I mean?

Driving it up, driving the work up himself. Yeah, he had no stash box, no nothing. Just straight to the trunk. Right. Yeah. So he driving it from there to there. Me and him end up getting cool, though. So I end up, I'm going to Atlanta like every single weekend.

And I'm staying, you know, because like I'm saying, the music stuff is, you know, but I'm in Atlanta. He ended up getting a crib, right? He's taking me to the airport one day. He said he's going to stop by this place. He's going to stop by this place. He got an elevator in the crib and everything.

Wow. But he also got a crib with his wife and his kids. So he's telling me he's looking at this place and he says, yo, you can get the downstairs if you won't. So I'm like, down right, bet. So now I got downstairs, got the elevator in it. He's on the, he's on the bottom. I'm on the bottom.

He's on the second. It does the kitchen. So, man, cool, right? And what happening was, now he comes, now my money is,

like, funny because I ain't doing no work. We ain't getting no gigs. I got bread. But as my bill, my bill's like 10, $10,000 a month. Right.

So I'm looking at my money going to be gone in a matter of a year or so. So I said, I'm trying to figure something out. position hits myself. He says, he said, yo man, I'm about to hear it out of the country, right?

I'm like, all right. So he's like, I got 20 keys. Right? He said, I said, all, well, you take him to the boys? I'm still like at the point. I don't need to talk about none of that. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm knowing how it worked.

You know what I'm saying? But I'm like, I only talk about none of that and deal with them. He said, yeah, I told them that give me half of the money for the keys. and I'm going to lead on them, right? But if you, but everybody acting like, they ain't wanting to come with the money, right? So he said, so I said, so listen,

give it to me. I pay for the 10, right? I pay for the 10, so he gave me the 20. So now I go to the crew. So I said, yo, it's mine, right? All I want is the $1,000 per thing. You know what I mean? So we end up doing that.

Fast forward, a couple months, later. I don't hear from the guy low nothing. Don't know nothing. Like, it's like he's just disappearing. Right. Right. I got the bread for the old 10, but I ain't thinking nothing of it. And we didn't have a show in a club bed in New York. So I get a call to go out there to do the show. And I'm still booking shows at the time. You know what I mean? Trying to get what we can get. So we had like a little. So I got it. So I got it like a little.

So I said, we all go up there. Now I'm in the club. A little black guy come up to me, New Yorker. Yo, are you jeezy? I'm like, yeah. So he's like, you're the clip's manager? I'm like, yeah, what's up? So he was like, I said, Pike wants you to call him.

I said, Pike want me to call him, who is Pike? So he was like, well, just give him a call. Give him a call tomorrow, you know, X, Y, Z, this and that. So I said, um, All right, cool. Next day, we go do Clinton Sparks. I remember we go do Clint Sparks Radio show. And we're out there, day and there.

So I picked the phone up and I called it out pipe. So I'm like, yo, what's up? And he like, you ask us some money. I'm like, oh, some money for what? He said, for 20 keys. I said, who is we? And he said, man, I'm down here in Phoenix, right? You got 20 keys that belong to us.

That you're into getting from low. And I said, I said, man, I ain't seen, though. I said, yeah, I said, but I only own for 10. I don't own for the whole 20. You know, he was like, well, I mean, I ain't got nothing to do with that. Like, but, you know, needs some explaining that you need to come down here. That's when I said, well, where's here? He said, Phoenix.

So I said, all right, cool. I go grab one of my partners up, then up, um, they didn't fly me? I flew myself, but then getting a hotel room and all that in Phoenix. It was like set up, like straight. I get down there, we go to a restaurant, I meet the dude, um, Pike is the guy Johnny. Who are these guys? Um, they're lows plugged, but are these black guys or Mexican? No, Mexico.

Okay. It's Phoenix, right? Yeah, okay. So, um, so we're sitting there and just, just so happened, um, the guy, Johnny, he says, I like your group music, right? And I was like, oh, wow, all right, you know, this and that. So, so he's like, yeah, he said, um, um, um, um, um, um, So you want to work?

So I'm like, want to work. I'm like, no, because at the time, I don't want to work. You know what I mean? I wanted to give them their money. And, you know, it actually be done. You know what I mean? I was cool with making the 50. I figure out the other stuff on my life.

But I don't know for some reason I just didn't really want to be dragged back in with debt, especially that y'all calling me, finding me. And like, I'm like, nah, you know. But this is the crazy thing. Because when I first get the call, they go back a little bit. When I first get the call, I'm around. I'm around the guys. And when they say something about it, I'm like, no, I don't owe nobody.

You know what I'm saying? Because I got the call before I got to New York. That would make me even be like, you know, like on my P's. That we owe that the clips manager owed some Mexicans for some keys. This is what I'm hearing before I get to the place. And they all looking at me like, dude, you really? Right. Like, you know what I mean?

You're supposed to be out of the game. Yeah, I both go out of the game. You know what I mean? So when we get there and, you know, so, you know, so I'm going to out to Phoenix. Sitting down, Johnny Tim, you want to work. So I'm like, yeah, you know what I mean? Because I can't say no. I just feel like I just can't say no.

You know what I mean? So I'm like, yeah, no. I said, I don't got nobody to sell it to. He said, well, what happened to the people who sold all the other work? You know what I mean? I was like, yeah, I was like, well, that's my cousins and, you know, all that. He was like, well, all right, well, it's going to go through, you know, this and that. And I said, well, I got that money because whatever dude said, oh, he's like, maybe we'll worry about that later.

He don't care nothing about the old money. You know what I'm saying? So, so he says, yeah, he was going to do, it was, it was 60, it was 60 for the hair on. It was 16 for the Coke, and it was 250 foot of smoke. What do you mean? So it was 16,000 for a key of Coke. Yeah. You say something about Harron?

Harron was 60,000. 60,000 for a key of, and is this beige? Or is it Mexican hair? Mexican hair. So dark or more like, yeah, tar. Yeah, because like I say, I still never touched. I always take that and just dish it off. Because I grow up with the mindset of we don't do that.

You know what I'm saying? You dish. Yeah. And you just put a point on. But we don't mess with hair on. So I just like that would be one of, you know, I mean. That's like scary business to him. Right.

But they had it. You know what I mean? Right. And then the weed was 250. 250 for a pound. Two fifty per pound. Yeah. Okay.

So I'm like, all right, cool. You know, X, Y, Z. So he's like, I, um, so we'll basically be hollin at you. You know what I'm saying? Or whatever. It's not. I go back to the hotel. All right, cool.

About Christmas time come up. And I get a call. Call telling me open the garage. Where are you? Are you in Atlanta or Virginia? I'm in Virginia. Because with the Atlanta thing, once dude had left, I never saw a dude no more.

So you just left the breath. I never saw a little no more. You know what I mean? So I end up leaving the crib and holiday. I mean, that was his debt. So I'm thinking he dated. Like literally, I'm thinking he. He did, I mean, where is he?

So I get a call. So he says, open the garage, right? I go open my garage and they got a white van out there. So he tells me, meet up, meet up. So I go, he opened the back up, and look, and down as crates, right? And, and putting them into my garage, you know, so, you know, so, you know, so I tell them, hold on, hold on, I'm going to get the money, the other money that I owe. I want to make sure I give that.

Yeah, squared. Square. You know what I mean? He telling me, no, no. Call pipe. Call pipe. I call pipe. I'm like, yeah, you know, he like, you remember me the prices?

I'm like, yeah. He's like, I'll be there soon. Merry Christmas. That's how I remember was Christmas. Wow. I never told him where I stayed. Crazy. It goes that deep.

You don't believe it until you see it. Yeah, enough to him when I stayed. That's fucking nuts. So I opened up that first crate and there's a barrel of wheat, right? And in the first one it wasn't, I think it probably like the second one, when I'm opening up, it got the keys in there with the weed. Right now, you know what I mean? It would probably end up was like, the honest truth, it was like, that first one was like something small. Like, I want to say like between 1,000 and 2,000 pounds and 50 keys of coke.

And that's just a test run. Yeah. Wow. Now I'm getting. I ain't worried about the music. Music. Ain't that by no music. 16 a brick.

Man, I went to Miami, bought me a Bentley. I had the S-550 in Chesapeep. Listen, I had the S-550 in Chesapeat. My wife had the new Avalon. And a bind to Bentley with the high-rise when they first, like, Biz came, had just built these high-rises and stuff with everybody by the Dennis. I was one in the first ones actually in there. you know what i mean and and for a real at the time was um had a student because he had lived out there

and he had the studio you know he was going to the studio at tomorrow and i think it was and uh but i'm i'm i'm like trying to find man i'm trying to find stuff to do with this paper wow trying to find that when i say i'm trying to find that i'm trying to find stuff to do with this paper that's when i bought the nightclub yeah you know what i'm saying so like because never mind you i got the trucking companies and all that right right but i never mixed drugs with none of my businesses right never i don't care about getting stuff off a truck it won't be my truck you know what i'm saying it's all we wanted to keep that right you know what i mean i know and and who's moving your material that's all your family in virginia all your cousins yeah you're just

you're just basically dumping it all on them and and taking the ticket taking the the the vig on top of it yeah wow yeah how how fast did you move that first load oh man that stuff don't last that's probably about two weeks yeah so you know i mean you know i mean And then pipe, the connect, he came and picked the money up, or you left it with a courier. So how we ended up doing it? First, we was actually running out of my garage. Then he ended up, he actually turned me on to, I mean, I knew before, but he could turn me on to like the stash box, the stash box in the cars and stuff. But at this time, like I said, like I had the stash boxes back then, like with the Honda cores and stuff when they were doing it in there.

but at this time they was doing it in um z's in the small zes so um he'll put us up on game with that so he got us the zes with the stash boxes in it and um

and um yeah he was going crazy and then you drive the car back to Phoenix so no so we had that that was just the ride in town oh I see that was just the ride in time how did you get the money back to him so so um

we end up um So it's a couple of methods, how I used to do it. Right. So sometimes it would be by car. But a lot of times it would be by plane. So back then, it was a thing of you can take your money and you can take it in your jeans and just roll it up all in your jeans,

still with your clothes. But this is the rest thing about it. Because people wasn't stealing money out of the... Oh, right, the luggage. Yeah, they want to doing that. You know what I mean? But even if you put your lock on or this and that, that's not going through.

And they're not going to just get past. No money never got a knock. We're doing it that way at all. Because, I mean, that's a lot of money. How much would you send back to them on a load of, man, 2,000 pounds of 50 keys? It started to get to, like, my bill, my ticket was like 1.5 to me. Yeah. Something like that.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Some easy to just, you know what I'm saying? So you're sending them back $2 million on a commercial jet, commercial plane. Yeah. Wow. That's wild. So if your bill is $2 million, what's your profit?

what do you profit on top of that man do you know it's so crazy because um like I say I always got it all fast like what they say if if you know how much money you got you ain't got no money right like you know what I'm saying so but off a two million bill could you must have turned around a couple hundred thousand oh yeah yeah yeah yeah no most definitely that's what I do but like even when it came to the weed I'm going to sell it for 500 yeah you know what's going to one up. Yeah, you know, with Whitney Cote, I'm going to sell it for, I'm going to make $1,500 at least, $1,000. Right.

And he's key. You know what I mean? Like, that was just my game to just make everybody happy. You know what I mean? And I still make me some money. And at that ticket, the work goes so fast. So fast. Because then they can just charge a point to their people and then the work just moves and moves.

So then what did the load start to look like as you grew this relationship? So we ended up handing out to get a warehouse. Because it went from finance. finding people places to break down stuff and all that so we ended up in the warehouse and um one day you know he calls me no so i end up getting back he ended up sending me this load right it was probably about i don't say about 5 000 pounds right and um half of it was like brownish but it smokes the same smell the same but it was just brown yeah people still not buying it because it's bright right you know i mean so i call them i'm like yo listen

just smoking right. So he's like, no, man, you know, because of the sun, you know, in Phoenix, I'm like, yo, I can't, I can't do that. I don't feel like talking. I don't feel like trying to talk nobody about no work. You know what I mean? It puts itself itself, so we ain't going to do that.

You know what I mean? So he's like, all right, man, just give $150 for a pound. I'm like, you still don't get it. Yeah. Because that's when people are going to come out with, like, excuses. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not going to make no money.

And then I'm going to still owe you. Yeah. Right. He brainging the next. in the next load. And when he bring in the next load, we're at the warehouse and he sees, it's probably about 3,000 pounds, 2,000 pounds,

or the bunk? Yeah, the brown shit. And when he see it, he's like going crazy, like, yo, what's that doing here? I'm like, what you mean? I can't move it. I thought I told you the prices. I'm saying, yeah, but I can't move it.

Like, nobody wants it. You know what I mean? Now he goes and he's trying to go talk all to my little cousins. and all them. You try to get some of them to sell it. You know what I'm saying? Trying to go over how my back can do this.

He ended up taking it to self, putting it in a white van, and taking it to Richmond. Now, Richmond is like probably about an hour, 15, hour and a half from me, from Virginia Beach. Yeah, it's scared off, right? I've been to Richmond. And I know a lot of guys am up there too, that I used to hustle with.

That's what happened. Some of the same guys who he was going to see, I knew one of them, right? The rest of the peace, baby Charles. So when he takes the work to them, he gets knocked off with the weed and the pistol. Oh, shit. Right?

Pipe. Yeah. Oh, wow. He's moving it himself. He's transporting himself. He took it off the warehouse and put it in the van that time. Like, first I ever did this. Yeah.

Drove it to Richmond to get rid of himself. Yeah. end up getting knocked off. I know this because he's disappearing from him. Like, I don't see him. I don't know where he is, like, and I still owe some bread. I probably owe like, man, I'm probably owed like 700,000. Something like that, that I know that he would come back for.

Yeah. I don't hear from him. I got a nightclub, I had a nightclub at the time. And I'm in the back of the night club and my cousin, she's a lawyer. Natty Wilson, she's a, she's a divorce. lawyer, though. She's my uncle Renee daughter. And so she

ended up coming and bringing some paperwork because I told her to check on the guy. She brings the paperwork, and the paperwork is saying, his statements on saying that telling on all the Richmond guys. And it's saying, went to Richmond got caught, this and that. So I'm telling her, I'm like, man,

what is this? And she said, it's federal. I'm like, oh, wow. So he's in the fair? She's like, yeah. Up on top of the, on the paper, it had seven sealed indictment. So I'm like, what is that? She's like, it's sealed. We can't see it. This happened.

It was us, me and my family. Wow. So he was telling on you. Yep. He just got caught with like, what, a couple hundred pounds and a gun. And he turned around. And people don't realize this.

You can snitch both ways. You can snitch higher or you can snitch lower on the guys that you're giving your work to. Yeah. Wow. How long after? you had been working with them, did this occur? About two years, man.

About two years. Oh, so you moved, you guys made M's. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, I was trying to find stuff to do with the money. Wow. I was getting the night, clothes. I mean, I was, whatever business it was, or you had the idea and it sounded cool.

Wow. I was down for it. And during this time, you've just completely blown up. Have you abandoned the clips and the music? Or what is your relationship with them as you're just big time in? They was working on the next album and stuff. Right. And I end up getting with another guy who went half.

You know, I partnered up with management with. And that was Tony Draper for Swarvhouse. Okay. I ended up giving him 10% so he can get back. So when it was going through the little record beef with Farrell and Barry Wise, Tony Draper had a good relationship with Barry Wise. from Jive. And the reason why Jive didn't want to let us go because Jive had gave us some money already, when Farrell had left and when it started his label over at, I think it was

like Sony or something like that. So Draper came in and mended that whole thing with the Jive and they ended up giving, giving us more money and they start working on their next album. Hell Houtham Furia. Okay. I so much was definitely not thinking about the music, but right then working on an album is when I ended up getting picked up. Okay. So basically Tony Draper had become their new manager. Yeah.

Okay. And they kind of got them. I see. So it was just kind of a transition. Yeah. And did they know they must, for, the clips must have known when you were back in the game, right? Okay.

Yeah. But they're out. They've been out. Had nothing to do with it. No. How many keys did you think you moved with Pipe in these two years? Oh, shoot, man. at least I want to say 50, about 50, 200 keys a month.

Yeah, something like. Yeah. Yeah. It's a ton, though. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. So how long after he got picked up?

God, it's always some stupid shit, too, right? Some stupid shit. That's when you panic in the game, like he's panicking for no reason. Like, what his ticket on those pounds must have been like $100 a ticket. Like who gives a shit, right? But it's that extra greed that always fucks you up. But he was real greedy, though, because he didn't, he didn't, he ended up taking the method of how they was getting it through the FedEx. Because, you know, they was getting the boxes through the FedEx.

It was FedEx boxes in the crate. Oh, wow. So they're setting hundreds in FedEx boxes? Yeah. From Mexico. I don't know what they're. Yeah. I mean, well, Phoenix right.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Sorry. So what was he doing? end up taking that method that Johnny had. And I didn't know I ended up just dealing with him straight.

He cut Johnny out. Oh, wow. Johnny ended up calling me one time, asking me about Pipe after Pipe had got locked up and told me that that was him and the whole. He could have been lying, you know what I mean? But he was like, yeah, man, when you first came, this and that, you know what I mean?

We probably was trying to take yourself out of it, anything, you know what I'm saying? I don't know why he called me. You know what I mean? Like, we can put so many stories together right now and why he called me. You know what I mean? But basically to put himself away from it. Huh.

Yeah. Yeah. Because he knew this guy was no good. And yeah. I mean, did that raise any alarm bells? Were you like, oh, this guy I'm dealing with is kind of shady? Like, did that speak to Pipe's character at all? Or were you just like, oh, that's kind of a weird phone call?

At first, what Johnny? What Johnny called? Yeah. Yeah. Because basically. So I already figured, I mean, that he was, it was on some. kind of like because when he tried to go behind my back to deal with the family to break the family up like you know I mean right and you already know if you're plugging you're going to anybody and say hey we got this they're going to jump on it you know what I'm saying right so you know he was he was okay so how long after pipe disappeared in Richmond did the feds raid um I'm in Miami and um then coming probably about a good year year and a half Yeah, but the thing was I started to be, um, people started to lie like on a, um, throw a whole bunch of violence on me, like bodies and stuff like that, right?

Which knowing that wasn't my character, you know, at all. Um, and, and it was a thing, the feds had to come in get me faster. You know, whenever bodies and stuff like it's involved, um, they tend to move quick because they don't want you there. the case going, then you can kill. Right. You know what I'm saying? So they end up coming to get me faster. But they wanted to round up a whole bunch of different people around Virginia at the time who was just as, if not bigger, was still getting it.

You know what I mean? Because, you know, there's a lot of moneymakers in VA. It's just the point of, like I told you, a lot of people are not going to get it. You know what I mean? So you become, I don't care what you're going to get. But once you're known for going to get it, that puts you in a whole new category. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you get on their radar.

So hold on. But in the between this time where pipe disappears, gets arrested, and then you go down in Miami that year, year and a half. Who did you start dealing with? Did you get a new plug? No, man. The death of my money was just, I was just going. You just said, okay, I'm done. Because I was trying to figure out what was going on with him.

Right. Even though that was dead, but it was like, you know what I mean? So you stop working. Okay. So then what evidence did they have on you besides his testimony? Is that enough? Just one guy saying you. So they got.

One, they got Irvin, the Texas guy who was. Right. Remember I told you the paper, it came up in the paperwork. Right. With the money was. Right. And stuff. So I was telling what he said.

When I see that, I'm like, oh, that's dude. You know what I mean? So it goes back from that. And then you got the guy who's saying, I gave him all this work. So now I'm getting charged with all the work that he's bringing me. So that's why I'm saying $20 million, $10 million drug ring because they add up. All the work that he, you know, they actually gave me. So I'm like, I'm chilling.

I'm like, ain't doing nothing. Yeah. So, but that was enough. So there to him. Testimonys were enough. So him and then it became a thing of, I had, I think it was like 150. Like 150. It was like 46 people ready to testify against me.

And 20 of them was on the street. Yeah. People think the streets have any code or honor. They are fucking dreaming. Wow. So you had dudes that you had, that knew from the Virginia Beach area that you were, that were getting work from the guys that you were giving work to. Your family.

Wow. So, yeah, how do you get arrested? You're in Miami at the time? I get the call. I get the call that my sister baby dad, he's getting picked up, My own little cousins, they getting picked up, wife, mother, everybody. Everybody's getting scooped up. Yeah.

Oof. Okay. And you're in Miami at the time? I'm in Miami at the time. So did you think about, did part of you think about it? Oh, I was gone. I was gone until they started talking about all the women and they all getting picked up and all that. So now I'm like, my God, I got to go.

Where'd you run to? You said, where would I? Yeah, no, where'd you go when you left? Man, I was in Miami. So I went on the script. I was on the script. I ended up leaving the high rise and it's getting a hotel room right on on the ocean.

Yeah. And I stay out of there, party and stuff. But you knew it was coming down, though. Yeah, everybody was picked up. Yeah. Like, everybody. No, but I'm saying, the party you think about, like, fleeing to Panama or something.

Yeah, no, I was, that's what I was thinking. But before I can even make a plan or try to figure it out, they had, my, you know, dad, my mom and everybody. And I'm like, oh, nah. I'm like, no, I can't. There's nothing to figure out. You know what I'm saying?

You got to take it. You got to take it. Did they end up letting all of them go? Or did they still get charges? They end up letting the women go. Wow. Okay. So it was just you and who else was in the indictment?

So it was me and seven, so what it was, I got to talk with CCE, right? And so, you know, that's six or more. Please. Is six or seven more people to make it a CCE? Right. Like, you got to have like seven. Right. So mine was exactly seven.

But the seventh person was, remember I told you, my childhood friend from science class, Josh. Yeah. He was the seventh person. He was already doing time. He was doing time in the federal system already, right? Uh-huh. On a charge coming back with a couple of keys from Mexico. And they put him in my case because my phone is tap, right?

So I used to get them cards, prepaid cards for the phone when he was in the fares and buttoning. Yeah. So, but we're on my phone talking. So I'm telling him, I'm like, man, I'm glad you ain't tell on me. I mean, we're talking real stuff. So they end up putting him in it to make it to CCE. So they end up bringing him back and putting him in it. Oh, no. So he was already said he didn't, he didn't, he should have told on me when he had opportunity, but he won't, you know, he won't doing that.

So he got recharged. He was doing a federal bid and now he's recharged and facing more time. Fuck, dude. Okay. So then how did this all resolve? How much time did you get? So what about Josh? So I end up getting Josh out of it. And I'm getting, I get, but you know how the fair is work is. Then I let nobody just work. walk. Right. So I end up working it out so he can, um, his charges came to get him the same amount of time that he had left. Right. They just rolled it into. Yeah. So he had like,

thing like two, two years left. How much time did he do in total? Oh man. He did a couple of bids our whole life, man. He'd been, you know, being, you know, big and stuff because he used to take a lot of stuff for the team like, you know, yeah, taking the punch itself to bring stuff back. You know what I mean? Um, but he did on that bid. That was, he did 10 years on that bid. And he did. And, yeah. What were they offering you at the beginning? What were you looking at life?

Yes, I was looking at, um, of course you were. The kingpin charge. You're always looking at 20 to life. I was looking at life because of the drug weight. Because I've never been in trouble. No. Right.

I never been in trouble. Like, said that my first time in jail and then. So the weight is what carried everything high followed the guidelines. Now, the thing with Pike. So when I first get, when I first get picked up and I'm in there, I'm like, you know, they had to give me back all the way from Miami through Oklahoma and all this. First time I'm locked up. I'm like, I'm traveling.

You got federal people on a plane. Like, I couldn't believe all this. Yeah, you're on the corner. So it's all like a dream to me. But I'm thinking I'm going to get a bond. I'm like, well, I'm going to get a bond. Everything will go smooth. I never been in trouble.

Just and that. You know, I'm going to get no bond. So they had me in Miami. for a minute before they got me back to Virginia. Right. And it's crazy because 50 Cent had just started to do, because Twitter had just got, was just getting big and stuff.

And I remember me being in Miami and they was talking about it on the radio that the Cuts manager just got picked up and XYZ and all this. When I get to the pod, right, my roommate, one time Rickford was ready to go to the court, he started singing and grinding, right? Yeah.

He was a Haitian guy. You know what I mean? And I'm getting cool with all them guys in there. They didn't know who I was and the whole night. So they was trying to teach me the game in there telling me, hey, you know, this how to say his work. You know, be quiet. People can just hop on your case. People can do this and, you know, X, Y, Z.

And, you know, so they're trying to give me the game. And in my, you know, how I grew up, I grew up with the no telling clause. Like, that's just how I grew up. It's not even an option. Yeah, it's like not even a thought. Not even a thought. You know what I mean? Like, I got cousins that I used to not talk to and all that stuff like that because, you know,

I heard that you, like, you probably didn't even sniff, but you was talking to him. You know what I'm saying? Right. And I remember when my lawyer came, he came and saw me, he said, hey, I got a meeting set up with you. Because what a lot of people don't understand when dealing with affairs is, when the people come and try to, you know, like doing your case and stuff, they come and try to pull you out,

you have an option to say, no, I don't want to go talk to you. Right. You don't even have to talk to him. Yeah, you don't even got to talk to them. I understand myself. I understand myself. Yeah. Right.

So, you know, I was hearing people, you know, saying, hey, man, if you go to court, you're going to lose, you know, this and that. And there's a no-win case because you have the connect, telling on you. You're like, how did you think you're supposed to even beat that? So, my lawyer was saying,

we're going to taste the money on going to prove that I make enough money to do all the things that I'm doing. You know what I'm saying? Like, try to discredit him and saying, where is the money that you're saying that I'm making?

By you giving me all this drugs and stuff, where's the money? Right. The money that I do got is accounted for what I'm doing. statements. Yeah. You were paying tax on the legitimate business. I got Bert Padilla. What? I got Bert for deal. The best account is in New York. Right. He's dealing with Lisa Keys, everybody. So you still have, even when you're kingpinning, you still got the

legitimate businesses paying taxes on it and all that. I mean, we got the records that proved before I got locked up in all this. This is what we're going on. All right. I think what happened then. Smart. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, cool. We're going to fight. And so it's like it's like them visits as you coming in is like getting worse and worse. You're getting worse and worse. Oh, well, you know, did they go charge your mother, your wife, your aunt? Talk about these are other inmates telling you this. My lawyer.

Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's coming. It's like every meeting is getting worse and worse for me. Right. Right. Right. Like, yo, like even with chasing, you know, because like they say, if they can prove

in the conspiracy, if they can prove a little teeny bag of marijuana, I'm still getting conviction. I'm still getting convicted because I got, it's gonna make my good money dirty. You know what I'm saying?

So I don't care if you got all this, that's legit, but you got that little bit of money that's dirty, all that's dirty. So he came and he says, so listen, and you got 46 people ready to testify, you know,

ready to testify against you. Right. So I'm actually, they don't show you all the names and stuff like that. But majority of the stuff that I did see, it was like people who wasn't even cool, I never dealt with. Right. You know what I'm saying? They're just dealers way low that your product made it down to. Yeah. Yeah. But you're never giving them work. Yeah, I was giving them work. You know what I mean? So none of my friends and none of that told on me. Like, you know what I mean? It's all people who, and you probably got some people who I knew who was cool with that person. Right. that's right damn you know what I'm saying yeah um so they didn't really but like I'm

saying it with conspiracy once you it's like everybody see the dope on the table but you you understand what I'm saying so I knew I was hit so um so I'm like you yo so he's like you like you what they got to stick with the guidelines this and that but they want to try to give you life now the thing is what people don't understand I don't know no king parents right I don't know no king pants that's out right now right all the king fans the real king pins who didn't tell are still locked up like if you out I don't know if those exist like king pins that didn't tell yeah you understand what I'm saying so so it's like so it's like um

so when they came to me and they said um they didn't have a meeting they wouldn't have a meeting with you so I said what they have a meeting about you know what I mean because I'm like you got all these people right here who's who's who's telling on me right the people who i'm cool with and who involve in the case they all locked up like what they want for me it got to be something that you want from me like so he was like well that's the thing but you have to understand like um they're going you know your mom and them gonna have to walk too you know this and that so i said well i'm gonna tell you now Because what people got to understand, you can't tell, you can't tell on somebody who

already told on you. You understand what I'm saying? That's not enough. Just, you know what I mean? So when they came and they said, so listen, they want to know. Because I made sure, like, before I went, before I went, because I won't just going to sit down and then go ahead and show me pictures of my friends or something. Just in that.

You know what I mean? And so he said, no, they want to talk to you about Johnny. So I'm like, I'm like, so I'm like, well, what they, I never dealt with, right, you know what I mean,

I dealt with them, but I dealt with them indirectly. You know what I mean? From the snitch, from the guy who, through pipe, who told on me. So he said,

no, well, pipe didn't want to tell on Johnny, but they know about the initial meeting. Meeting. But even if he did tell on Johnny in a conspiracy, you need two people.

so they couldn't mess with him even if he did right so so they said so they want to meet so they wanted to meet with you to just tell how to meet him with with with john the same thing that i just discussed with you so i said all right but what do i what do i get for that you know what i mean so he's like um you know i'm going to try to work you that they don't charge your people to me that's a good deal you know what i'm saying and i'm like you're gonna get the life off the table and he said well we don't know that but based off your record and we'll get the guys and everybody to say there's no violence and ain't no violence and whatever because even though the the lies about the bodies and all that stuff just what happened

my phone was tapped when them bodies and stuff occurred my phone was tapped so that what saved me because a lot of stuff is going on with the phone and they knew I didn't have nothing to do with these violence you know what I mean your lawyer can see that in the in the records of the wiretaps. You have nothing to do with it. And the guy who's the head man on the case, who's a DA agent, he was a police officer on my neighborhood. No way. Yeah, he's a patrol. Wow. He was a huge patrol. He ended up becoming a DA, right? And it's the head dude on my case. Wow. So, um, okay. So you just got to tell him about the meeting with Johnny. That's all that's supposed to be, right? So I goes and I basically tell him about the meeting.

You know, the same thing I told you, yeah, he said, you know, this and that. So they're like, all right, cool. Boom. They bring out pictures, though, which I knew. Because this is the thing. You can't pick and choose. It can me when, you know, like, you think you can pick and choose what you tell on and stuff like that. Or, you know what I'm saying?

Or what you think that they're not going to ask you this because you don't want to ask you that. If they got you down there, they got you down there. So they started bringing out pictures of everybody. Everybody, from the clips to my childhood friends, everybody. No, I couldn't do that. You know what I'm saying? And it's crazy because the cop, the DA agent, he is the one who actually picked me up from the facility and drove me.

Wow. Because he was cool with my family, like he knows everybody in the community. Yeah, that's crazy. And as we driving back, he actually says to me, you know he was lying, right? When he came to my friends and all of them, because he knows the guys and all them out of the neighborhood. But he let me live with that.

You know what I mean? Because he knew it to mess it up for my mom, my son, for everybody. So he actually let me live for that. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's good. And we actually, so what they said was, all right, cool.

So I end up getting the 32 years. and again 32 years so you said so you didn't get any kind of deal for at least telling them about the the meeting with Johnny my family got let go okay my family got let go they got immunity

they got immunity long they didn't do nothing soon and um I got the low end of my guidelines which was the 32 years that was the low yeah because all the weeks yeah because the weight right

yeah wow so now I'm like ready to start, ready to start this 32 years sentence. Yeah. Never been locked up. How old were you? Stressed out. How old are you now? 33.

When you got, when you got the bid? Okay. Yeah. 33. So you would have done off of 32, you would have done with a good time like 26. 26. Yeah. Yeah, I had it to a T at one point of time.

I could tell you the day when I was, you know, everything. But I'm riding this bid like, shoot, my, like my wife, my mom, like everybody's good. You know what I mean? I'm doing this big. Right. You know, it's cool. watching the TV, the guy's blowing up, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, you know, so I'm rocking and rolling. I remember reading about that in the source when I was locked up. And I read, I was like, Clips Manager got 30 years. This guy, Tony, got 30 years. I was just like, oh, oh, I felt sick. But this is the kick. So, I'm going through my bed. I'm going from,

My first compound that I hit was FCI Gilmer. It's a medium high. I'm talking about it's a dropout, would it call from guys from the pent. Going from the USPs, the real hard places. Yeah, so those guys are here with life and the whole nine. Yeah. I was supposed to go to the Penn.

I was actually supposed to go to West Virginia Halerton to the USP. Oh, that's a tough one. But somehow, my, like, I don't know what it was, right? It sent me to Gilmer, but it was still rough. You know what I mean? They ran it like how it was. was first day on the compound, we gets locked down. Serenios is fighting the Pisces.

A big, big, I'm talking about, they pulling up knives from the dirt, everything. And I'm like, oh, my God, what I get myself into? You know what I mean? So I'm going through this transition of seeing all this and the whole nine. Yes, and, you know, but the thing was, my paperwork is good because I'm getting sentenced.

I got sentenced, right? it doesn't say anything about you talking about Johnny me talking about Johnny and you know but the newspaper and all that saying yo he made a usual deal

to free his family members my wife so it's saying all this don't nobody know what that deal if people are like oh deal they think deals this and that and they know I got the 32

so as I'm going into the system you know the real people know, oh, campaign 32 years, they don't care what. They automatically, oh, you told you have, you know what I'm saying? That's what my frame. Right.

But the paperwork don't see it. Right. So were you prepared knowing, like, when you go to a pretty high security federal prison? Like, did you realize that people immediately were going to be like paperwork check or else you're getting a knife in you? Because I was getting school before I even get there. And I heard a little story than the whole nine. But like they say, my paperwork is right. Right. But the thing is when you get in there, now you got, you know, you got cars.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm Puerto Rican. I have Puerto Rican. So now I got the Spanish guys, you know, who got rock with me. But now I'm from Virginia. Right. So I'm in the Virginia car.

Virginia is broken up in the system of Richmond and the 757. That's just how it always be. It started through the state. For some reason, they bought it to the Fed. You know, all the other states, everybody stayed together. But for some reason, it's split up. So out of the 757, everybody knows my case knows me. Guys in who I don't even know.

When I got the penitentiary, first thing they told me is, yo, man, we ate a lot off your plate, man. If you need anything, X, Y, Z. So I was always protected in every federal prison I went to. Wow. Regardless if my people were didn't say anything. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? You were just the fuck.

You were known as the boss. I was known for taking care of everybody, playing fair. Yeah. You know what I mean? Playing the game fair. Like, I had people beat me probably for two, three keys. And I'm just like, man, I ain't, man, right? I just ain't doing with them anymore.

Right. I mean, with guys, I'm like, man, no, we should have killed them. I'm like, nah, you know what I'm saying? So I was good in all the finish sense because my paperwork is right. Right? Yeah. But it's still the unknown of, dang, like. So, now, you know, if you leave the compound,

that's when people want to know, oh, what you're leaving the compound for? You know what I mean? You got to come back with working XYZ. I remember when I got down Fort Dix and they was on paperwork hard. And it's a, it's a low. But they got a whole bunch of New York guys there are. They run it. They think they had a USP, knives.

They're serious. It's serious. The east side, the east side of Fort Dix is serious. They end up, they had a shot call there by the name of King. He was from Portham. He had life. And I remember as soon as I got there, I had to go see him. He already knew my story, though.

You know what I mean? Because, you know, he's still, he'd been there for life. So I go to him. I sit down, showing the work. And, because it was rumors already. Because, you know, people know, once you're going to laundry. People know you come in and this and that. Oh, yeah, he says, says coming.

Such says coming to this compound, this and that. So now as we're sitting down, he tells me, you know, I know what I'm saying, this and that. but I'm showing the work he looked through it, and he's like, yeah, boy, this don't tell me nothing because, like, I never left, you know what I mean? And we don't got the whole pacer thing and all that, to find, like, all that stuff you can't, you know what I mean? Like, so he was like, man, far as that, you're good.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I ain't tripping you good out here, you know, the whole nine. So I got to walk the yard, you know what I mean? Did you have to explain to the people, even though it didn't say it in your paperwork? Did you have to tell them? No, it came with a story. Yeah, it came with a story. What did you tell him?

What did you tell him? With me actually telling King, I was like, yo, bro, like, you know, you just cop to it all. Yeah, I bid to cops to it all, but didn't have my mom. And because they, remember the paper, the newspaper came out where I struck in the unusual deal. So it's the first they want to know. Right. What is this unusual deal? Mm.

You know what I mean? So I got to break all that down. They, everything I'd be answering for. So I told them, exactly what I told you. I told them every single thing. And the first thing of everybody who I told, what they tell me is, man, shoot. I would do it the same thing.

I'm not going to go out there and tell nobody out there. Like, you better go go mention that to here. Because you best believe everybody almost in there with life and all that, they want to be,

they want to be on the outside. You know what I mean? But he got to live in there. He's not going to go in there. He's not going to stand on what he's standing on. You know what I'm saying? But, yeah.

But so when I end up getting up state, I end up open up a compound, Berlin, New Hampshire. And I'm going to open up that compound. What does that mean to open up a compound? When the prison is just built. I see.

So I went to go try to make the most money and this and then because all the places I was going, with me being in Gilma, I wanted to break my beard up too. Yeah. So, you know, and I'm green. Like, I don't know how to bid. But I end up, it was a guy from my area

named Danny, named little Danny. And he was locked up before me. You know, he was heavy in the street too. And he basically showed me how to bid. You know what I mean? Like, he used to call me Green. Because I used to get with people and start talking to people want to know, oh, man, how to music, how to cook?

They want to rock for me all night. So he used to be like, yo, you befriending a lot of people. Like, you can't do that. You know what I'm saying? Right. And I'm getting to Berlin. And as we're in Berlin, I get called back to court. I wanted to.

You must have been sick. Man, that was so sick. I don't even know what I'm getting called back for. Right, right. Ain't did nothing. Right. Ain't did nothing. Ain't telling nobody.

I don't, you know what I mean? As far as I'm like, you know, end up packing up, going on the plane, get to Oklahoma, stay Oklahoma for like four or five weeks, going back to the plane, coming back on the compound. Back to New Hampshire? Back to New Hampshire. You didn't know what you had just done it for? Nobody told you anything. No, I told me nothing.

Now I'm, now I'm like, I'm scared. Because I'm like, what the? because I got to prove something to these guys out here on this, what's calling to say, hey, this is what I went back for. Yeah. Like I swear to fucking God. Check the cameras. I don't got nothing to come and tell them.

I don't have nothing to say I went back for because I don't even know. Right. So one thing I did was I checked in, which checking in is what they call it is a big bitch move. Oh, so you went to PC. I went to PC. Yeah. But the reason that I went to PC is because I don't know. what's going on. I can't, I don't even want to go out there and say, hey, man, I went to Oklahoma.

Yeah. It came back. Yeah. I don't know what I went for. Anybody behind that? No. Nobody's behind that. And one thing about it, you can't beat everybody in prison. So people say, oh, man, PC, huh? Like, what you're going to do? So I wanted to find out first. Right. So that would make me call my own, you know, the counselor and like, y'all need to talk to my lawyers, XYZ. Right. Right. Boom. Come to find out, Johnny was going to, he was going to court. He was going to trial. Right.

Right. So with him going to trial, they was bringing me the trial. Johnny tapped out, turned in for me before I even got there. So they turned me back around. Wow. Holy shit. Turn me back around. I dropped.

I stayed because now once I found that, I'm like, oh, yeah, just that. I'm like, oh, cool. now I'm trying to go back I want to go back on the compound so they tell me no my points just drop now I'm of risk because my points dropped if you got like in the federal system it all go by points

like you can't get to a low unless you know say if you got an open case you ain't going to a low if you got I think I can't remember that but it's like 10 points or low or whatever then you get you can go to a camp like it's all ran by the point system so I couldn't go out there because now I'm classified now you're a low security

I'm low security yes you can't be around those animals. Exactly, because this was the thing. People, this. So they come and they, my lawyers say, and they cut your time. As I'm back there in the hole, I'm finding out all this. He said, and they cut your time. I said, yeah, I'm like, how much? He said, 16 years.

Wow. Because of the half. I said, 16 years? I'm like, all right, bet. You know what I mean? Now, I'm not even expecting this. But he says, but I'm going to shoot it back. I said, what do you mean? You're going to shoot it back. And he said, because they're giving you debt because you didn't go testify because I never, like I never took no stand

I never been on the stand pointing at nobody and do that. That's what they give you the bigger, that would they give you cuts for because you're risking your life. Right. My lawyer was so vicious. I had one of the best lawyers in the world.

Would it would? He represents Michael Vic, Danza Hall, all them guys. And it's like he's amazing. He came in, he said, no. He said, I'm going to shoot it up. I forgot what emotion is called. He said, because,

they expose your name to Johnny. So if he wouldn't, so because he turned informant and he's not going to worry about you, your name was still mentioned. So say what if he, say if he would have went in the trial. So you gamble,

you gamble with my name. Right, right. So regardless, that should count as you testify. As getting more. So they came back and gave me 75% and it took me to 10 years. Holy shit.

How long did it take them to get back with the three months? And then I got, I stayed back in the hole for three months. Right. And I got sick to Fort Dix. So that's what I'm trying to tell you when I get to Fort Dix. My paperwork don't say nothing. But now my time changed. So now guys, I'm like, yo, so this is when I go see King and all that.

And I explain what happened to King and all that. So now it's like a thing of people really like, man, damn. Right. Because the whole thing is what people, like, you know, people pick and choose, right? But, like, you got people that are actually standing on, like, man, like, I never told on nobody. I mean, with Johnny, but I didn't get a chance to tell them. I mean, I did right there, but I never got on no stand and really, like, told on no guys and got nobody locked up and all that. You know what I mean?

So. So you, but you copped to it. You were like, I did have a meeting and I told, I told the feds about the meeting with Johnny. You just told him the truth. You told King everything. Yeah. How much time when you got that huge time cut? How long had you been in?

Five years. So that basically wipes it out. You got two years left or something? Three and a half more. Three and some chains more. Where? I did the low over. I'm almost in nine years.

Okay. So after Fort Dix, you got that big time cut. Where did you go? You just went to Lowe's? Lows? Lowe's what? Yeah, he went to the Lowe, the camps. Oh, yes.

So I went to Fort Dix and then I stayed in Fort Dix. Is a low. Yeah, I stayed in Fort Dix for, probably about a year and a half or so, and then I got dropped to Halerton camp. Okay. And I started going crazy. Yeah.

I started going crazy. What does that mean? Like, I started like cell phones, Facebook, all neck. Remember, I left with Twitter. Yeah, right, right, right. So now I was like, Facebook and Instagram and stuff. I'm like, this is a whole, whole new thing. And now my mind is still on business,

but I'm also like still had that mind frame of hustling because I always had the biggest stores. And now at this time, to get to the camp when guys then was going out and hitting hotels and having sex i was like no i'm bringing in the liquor the tobacco ain't messed with drugs but it was like you know yeah tobacco cell phone so i'm selling that you know i'm like oh back in the you know i feel like i'm back in the world again yeah um taking pictures on instagram like y i was doing all that yeah my mind wasn't right right right but i ended up meeting this white guy and um he was from virginia you know

and um we got cool and he started telling me about the trucking game this way he kept telling me, hey, man, y'all out here, you know, doing this and that. He was like, man, if you want to invest in the truck game. But he said, I'm telling you, you need to start your own business. I said, well, I had the trucks and stuff. And he told me, he said, nah, not with the 18 wheelers. He said, you got to transfer with these vehicles. That's what the real money is.

So I'm like, yeah. So he's like, yeah, I said, man, I don't got no CD Air. I don't want to drive no big trucks. He says, you can do it with the Dooley. And with the three car haulers, you know, and all that. and you don't need no CDLs. I said, I don't need no CDLs. He said, no.

And he gave me the game. Wow. He gave me the game of not needing the CDLs and the trucking game. Right. How do that, by the way, I came home. I came home of three trucks.

I started one truck and went in three trucks. Of three trucks, I made $350,000 in a year off the trucks. Wow. Yeah. Your first year home? My second, my second year home. Wow. Yeah.

Were you blown away? Were you like, holy shit? I made more in a year in a legitimate business than most drug dealers will ever touch selling drugs. Like, did you, it's so crazy when you have time to really think, you're like, man, I didn't really need the drugs. I would have never sold it. Yeah.

Do you know? I'm telling you now. And I said this before, people were like, yo, do you regret it? And all this and all this. And I just be like, oh, man, yeah, because it made me to the man, man, I regret that. I regret. I regret. Like, because there's so much ways to make, see, but I always had it from getting the different business and stuff. I just wasn't, you know, I just had the drugs and stuff, you know, involved. God saved you. Yeah. He saved you from a 30-year bed. Yeah. I mean, I must have made you a religious, man. But the most, man, my childhood from my other childhood friend, he's a pastor, right? Since the fifth grade, he's a pastor got his own church out there. He's like, my, my child.

best friend right now like he's actually he's in the middle of partnering up with getting some trucks in my business you know because he's seen the growth in the whole not you know what's saying but um but that's even for what i'm doing now so i got this thing now that i got is i'm giving the game away for free because i taught so many people the gang who got their trucking company now and stuff and i showed them the difference in between freight and vehicles which is like no comparisons that I started this thing like no CDL trucking and I let you

and what I do is I set your whole like if you go through it you can set the whole business up by pressing on it the DOT number everything in the whole nine but then if you want you got to pay for me

giving you the game explaining to you of how much how much you got a business school you got a fucking business school dog yeah mother so it's online no CDL trucking.com

is my website oh my god I didn't even know this bro can I sign up yeah I want to get I'm trying to get out of the podcast game. I'm trying to get into the CDL trucking game. But that's what I said, what I need, this is like my niche or what I need to do now

because, like, now how I do it, instead of having me driving my own truck that I did for like years and stuff, now I don't do that because I had, I started hiring people came on from prison. Yeah. So I'm hiring these guys putting them in the trucks and stuff. They're messing the trucks up. And, I mean, it's crazy. So I had the first business in my wife's name because I was in a half the house. It was DNA hauling.

Once I got off papers, I ended up getting her name and started no days off transport. LC. And now what I do is instead of me being liable for their trucks in the whole nine and have my shorts sky high and messing it up, I charge them to drive under my authority. So I charge them $1,500 a month. So I charge them $1,500 a month now you're under my authority and I book you the loads too for 10, 15% of the load. So each load, I'm getting that and then I'm getting the $1,500 a month per company. So now all I do is sit back and I just get to get me one car. I I got a one car hauler, right? Mm-hmm.

And I got clientele businesses that different dealerships just want me to move. So I'll probably just do something simple. Without all that money over there, just in my little recreational money. Yeah. I go three hours up for, say, $250. And three hours back for $250, spend $100 in gas. I made $400 in a day. Anthony Gonzalez, a born entrepreneur, man.

What a journey. What an Odyssey. We're going to switch over to the Patreon. We're going to do a quick little bonus episode just because we're almost at three hours. But I, and this is where I want to talk in depth about that, about the truck hauling business and about, you know. And then I also want to talk to you about the movies because, you know, we also got production companies. Sure. I love it.

I love it. Stick with the trucking, though. The movie business sucks. But that's why do you think I'm podcasting? Because the movie business is like trying to sell. You know what I'd say the movie businesses right now? it's like trying to sell Mexican dirtweed in California. Yeah. It's imagine trying to push brickweed in California right now. Not a very good market.

So if you think today today, we got like like like five to ten good quality movies that we can't like get a production there from like a say like a Cat Williams or something like that. These people who saw these studios. Possibly. But that's that's we're going to switch it over on the Patreon. But that is a good point. There, there could always be a revolution. It can always come back. This was a it was an honor of privilege. Plug your trucking, your trucking business school. Yeah. Plug it. So is no CDL trucking.com is the website. And it sets up your whole business for you and everything.

Yeah. But if you want to get the free game, then you got to, you know, you got to pay for the knowledge of really making that money. I'm talking about 10,000 a truck. Yeah. For one truck a month. Killer. Dude, I'm telling you guys, this is the most useful podcast we've ever done. Everybody is trying to plug their book.

Everybody comes on here is trying to plug whatever. Their supplement business, this is a way for you or your loved ones that have criminal records, have no education. This is an amazing way to make money and have your own business and autonomy. I do have the book. Oh, yes. You have a book too, of course. But like, you know, this is a useful business, bro. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. This is killer. Man, you killed it, bro. All right, we're going to switch over to the Patreon. One for the history books. I want to have Push the T on the show. I'd like you to put in a word for me, but this was a great episode.

Thank you for coming out here to Austin. I'm very proud to know you. And I hope we can make more content. Maybe we'll go down to Panama or something. Yeah, yeah. You're sure, man. So you can really see, really see it first. I want to meet Uncle.

Panama Renee, Ben, Ben. Yeah, exactly. Uncle Renee, dude. Patreon.com slash the Connect show. You've been watching The Connect. My guest is Anthony Gonzalez. And the link to that, his website will be in the description.

Check him out. Turn your life around. And thank you, sir. Much appreciate it. Yes.