The Connect- with Johnny Mitchell - "We Take The Whole Shipment"- Leader Of A Robbery Crew Describes How He Hijacks Cocaine Shipments

Episode Date: January 19, 2025

Dive into the gripping story of Stephen French, also known as "The Devil," one of Liverpool's most infamous figures. From his troubled childhood to leading a stick-up crew during the 1980s cocaine boom, French built a fearsome reputation in the underworld, amassing millions and dominating Liverpool's streets. In this exclusive interview, he opens up about his journey through violence, crime, and redemption. Discover how he evaded law enforcement, transformed into a community activist, and wrestled with the complexities of his legacy. Go Support Stephen! IG: https://www.instagram.com/therealnocontextstephenfrench/ This Episode Is #Sponsored By The Following: MANDO! Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with Mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code MITCHELL at https://shopmando.com #mandopod PrizePicks! Download the app today and use code CONNECT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup! Join The Patreon For Bonus Content! https://www.patreon.com/theconnectshow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I've been shot, I've been stopped, and I've been a firebomb. I became a junkyard dog, smashed him in the face with my fire engine. He was the first man that I ever made bleed. I have the right to defend myself. I'm my family, I'm my business. By any means necessary, you go too far with me and I'll take your life. Stephen French is one of the most notorious gangsters in modern British history. He grew up in Liverpool, that grimy working class town in Northern England where the Beatles are from.

At the height of the cocaine boom in the 1980s, he ran a... stick-up crew that hunted down and robbed high-level drug dealers for enormous coke scores. He soon became a kingpin himself, and at his height was worth tens of millions of pounds. So fearsome was his reputation in Liverpool that he earned the nickname the devil. And for decades, the devil operated with impunity. He never got arrested, not until years after he was already out of the game. How did he do it? You're about to find out.

This is one of the shrewdest, grimyest criminals I've ever spoke to. And for a bonus episode with Stephen, where he confesses to the details of how he finally got caught and what he's doing now, go over to patreon.com slash the Connect show. Without further ado, the devil in the flesh, Stephen French, right here on the Connect with Johnny Mitchell. We had 500 men working for us. Our turnover was 5 million. Our profit was 20%. It was all about the paper. I was living a very extremely selfish life. The game, as we call it, it's a game of death. That's when I see lights behind me start to flash. And I didn't even think.

I just hit it. I was driving like my life depended on. And then I parked the car, hopped out, closed the door, and I started running. And he pulls out a burner, shank. It's like six inches. And he passes it to me. And he goes, here, that's yours. Don't ever leave the cell block without this.

He was the reason I made it out of that place alive. You were brought up in a time that was one of the most volatile, and racist in modern British history, which I find fascinating. Because you guys had the problems that America had, but like years later, decades later even.

So tell us your background really quick. Where are your parents from? I'm a byproduct of two diaspros. I'm a byproduct of the African diaspora and the Irish diaspora. Yeah. My father is a West Indiespire. Indian from Trinidad.

My great-grandfather was a slave. My mother is from, my mother's mother is from County Mayo and Ireland. My wife family left Ireland as part of not the Irish potato famine, the Irish potato starvation. The blacks and Irish were forced together in the United. south end of Liverpool, yeah, are backs to the River Mersey. Liverpool, the most racist city in Europe with the most racist police force. Not my words, the words of Lord Gifford, the Gifford report, circa 1988. Wow, that was a white paper that was commissioned by the former conservative Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, after

what we call the uprisons. You may know them as the Toxler's riots. I am a Windrush baby. What is the Windrush? Windrush is the post-war immigration of Caribbean citizens that were British citizens to the United Kingdom. After World War II,

yeah, the Russians were lower manpower. The Germans were low on manpower and the British were low on manpower because they lost millions in that war. Britain was flattened and Britain needed to be rebuilt. One of the cultural icons for the far-rise is a guy called Enoch Powell. Enoch Powell spoke about the rivers of blood speech because of the West Indian infiltration into Great Britain. most people don't know is in 1963 when enoch Powell was the health minister. It was him that invited the West Indians over to man the newly formed National Health Service, to drive the trains, drive the buses and rebuild the infrastructure of this country.

And the interesting thing was the new problems now, the new problems with the immigrants, it's about religion. It's about Muslims versus Christians. Absolute touch. It's always been about color. And I'll tell you why it's always been about color. The West Indians were Christians. Catholics or?

Christians. All different type of Christians. Catholic Christians, Roman Catholic Christians, Pentecostal Christians, Church of England Christians or Christians. Right. Right. Believers in Christ and the Holy Trinity. Yeah.

And we face the exact same discrimination that the Iraqi and Afghani refugees are facing today. It's always been about skin color. And religion is just the excuse, the bail? Religion is also a division, right? Because in Ireland, they're the same people and they're divided over religion. Right. So I have a working theory about. the ruling elite

there's 1% of people that own all the wealth yeah they hire 4% politicians yeah yeah who then hoodwink 90% of the world that we live in a democracy

and there's 5% of us that know what's going on I'm a 5% yeah so your parents met grew up in Trinidad your mom is my mom My mom was born in Liverpool. My mom's an English white lady.

Right. My dad left Trinidad. I've asked my dad this quite often. I said, why did you leave the West Indies? It was beautiful in the West Indies. He said, I came looking for white women. Yes. And history repeats itself.

The brothers have always been looking for the snow bunnies. He found them. We all thought you were going to say work. He found one, yeah, in a flakson-headed redhead, beautiful Irish lady, the green eyes, yeah, who's my mother, she's now 90 years of age. Wow, God bless her. So, but basically, the context is you are born in the first generation of this big wave of black Caribbean, Caribbean blacks in England. So. And the white working class, and the white working class didn't like that.

identify, yeah, yeah, right, with Caribbean culture. Although I'm British, yeah, I'm what I refer to as first generation, British born black. Yeah, right. My parents, they came to this country thinking it was the motherland filled with ideas of the streets were paved with gold. But I went to school with them. I went to school with the indigenous British. Yeah, right? I know the streets aren't paved with gold.

I know the hatred they hold in their hearts at that time. Yeah, things have improved. Sure. Yeah, right. But it was all brand new then. Right. It was all brand new. I'm talking 1960s and 1970s.

Was it mostly white Liverpool kids that you grew up with? Or was it other immigrants? Here's the situation. Did you know the Beatles? Do you know? Interestingly enough, I did. Really? You met them?

Yeah, I know where he used to buy their weed. Wow. Seriously? You used to go, see, see, we lived in, we lived in what was called a self-end, right? And there was, Lord Woodbairn was a famous Caribbean singer, but he was also a barber. Yeah, right? And if you want to get a, if you want to get a smoke, if you want to get a drawer, You go to barbers.

Oh. Yeah. And I used to see the Beatles coming to the barbers to score their weed as a small, small child. I've actually begged money off John Land.

Yeah? Because you've got to understand that the Maisie beat sound yeah, right? His influence, same as Elvis. Yeah, yeah. All the music is ours.

It all comes from us. That's true. You listen to Chuck Barry. It sounds like, Like, it could be a Paul McCartney song. Right, right. It's wild. So it's not, it's not, it's not like, what was me or it shouldn't have happened.

That's what happened. Well, as you know, and what American audience know, right, is that 60s, 70s, there was no crossover. Well, everything that was going on in the United States of America, right, was happening also in Britain. But Britain and British-born blacks, we were always 10 years behind. Yeah, 10 to 15 years behind. Yeah. But we didn't face the brutality that our brothers folks faced in the Southern counties such as Mississippi, Georgia and those such places. There was never any Jim Crow laws like there were in the United States in Britain.

See, see, at least on the books. What you've got to understand about. the British aristocracy because I have to make the distinction. Right. When I talk about white people, Caucasians, yeah, I have to make the distinction between the ruling elite, middle class, working class, lower class, and what I call the underclass. Wow. Right? There's a difference.

A lot of classes. Yeah, right? And a lot of indigenous white people have faced the same hardships that I have. Of course. You're right. Because before the ruling elite, yeah, when the Europeans were war on amongst themselves, the Prussians were fighting the Franks, the Franks were fighting the British, and we're having a hundred-year wars, right? All the non-elites, were serfs. Yeah.

It was a feudal system. Yeah. Right. And they lived on the land. And if you watch programs like Braveheart, yeah, and you watch the struggle that the Scottish had with the English, it's the same type of thing. There was just no elements of pigmentation. Right.

Of course. There's always been oppression. It's the same thing with Ireland. There's always been oppression. Well, Ireland has been oppressed in certain parts of Ireland. for 800 years. But there's also, because you've got Northern Ireland

and you've got Ayrid, there's unionists, yeah, right, there's loyalists, yeah, right? And then there's, the Catholics, yeah,

who are looking for independence. It's not a subject that I speak about, but I was in Belfast for a friend of mine's 40th, the beginning of August, the middle of September, maybe,

this year, for this year, for 24, yeah? and I see the gates. I went into the Irish Museum and I see it. And it's exactly the same type of division. Yeah, right?

Well, what I found starkly interested is they're exactly the same people. Right. So that's proof, though, that the divisions, because that all comes from the Ulster's. It all comes, the problems in Northern Ireland all come from the, elites in Britain relocating the Ulster Protestants and giving them a bunch of land for people that were already living there, much like what's happening in Palestine and, you know, the history of Israel and Palestine. So that's proof that racism is just the tool that wedges people, poor people apart. It really all comes down to economic dominion by the ruling elite. So look,

it's 1959. You're born in Liverpool. You're quickly, you come into, the system, like very young. You were in, I think, a foster home. So interestingly enough, yeah, right? I went into a care home. Yeah. The... Can you tell us why you did that?

I'm sorry? The circumstances, I've wrote a new book. The new book's called The Devil Decoded. I've decoded the devil. And the circumstances with regards to why I was in care. Yeah, yeah, right? will be contained in that book and that book won't be released

until my mom passes away. You're right? Because the certain revelations I'm going to make in that book that I don't want my mom to be around when I make them. And for the simple reason, I adore my mother.

I love my mother, right? She was a white woman with five children with all different names, all different colors of the rainbow, and she did what she had to do to survive. You're right? And as a result of that, yeah, right, we were taking off her. What does that mean, though?

Where was your father? What happened to your father? Because you were very young, it feels like when the family started to split apart. Right. So they were married. Yeah, yeah, right? And my mom had three children already when she met my father. And then she had my sister, who's 11 months older than me, and then she had me.

I'm the baby. I'm the youngest of five. Yeah, right? And daddy, in the West Indies, we refer to our fathers as daddy, even as adults, still daddy. And daddy was a seaman, right? If he fought in the war, yeah, in the Commonwealth services, fought for our right to be in this country.

Yeah. And while he was away, yeah, yeah. Mom had an affair, yeah. Dad found out about the affair. And that caused them to divorce. Yeah. I was told as a young child that my father run away with the babysitter.

I didn't like my father for a very long time and further into the story or will tell how I repaired the relationship with him. But just to say, Dad was wounded by what mum did. Right. Yeah. He wasn't involved.

I believed he wasn't involved. I believed he wasn't interested. I believe he abandoned. and does. Yeah, right? And as a result of my mom not being able to cope, I ended up in care. I ended up in a home called

Menlover Avenue, Wilton Vale, Child Assessment Center. Yeah. And you were, what, seven years old or something? Six. Oh, yeah. Christmas,

1965. I went into the home. on the 12th of December, 1965, six-year-old boy, just turned six, yeah, and I left there on the 23rd of December after an incident. The incident was a celebrity came to give the children presents, yeah, and I was given a red fire engine with a yellow ladder on it and a silver baller. a belt. And the gentleman who gave me that fire engine, he then attempted to touch me on what we called out underneath. Yeah. Yeah. Try to grab me by my penis. Yeah. I smashed him in the face with him. Smashed him in the face with my fire engine. Cut him over his left eye. Yeah. He was the first

one that I ever made bleed. Wow. And that's the first time he met Ringo Starr. No. That's the first time I'm not Jimmy Sauer. I'm just kidding. Yeah, right. And what people don't realize. His name was Jimmy Salvo? Jimmy Saville. Saville. Okay, we'll pop a picture up of this in the, of this creep.

Jimmy Saville, everybody knows who Jimmy Saville is. Right. And I'll break it down for you very quickly. Yeah, right? Because monsters, yeah, yeah, they're not born. They're created. They're created by poverty, neglect, physical and sexual abuse. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I've smashed this guy in the face. I've told all the social workers that are in the home what's happened. And I'm branded a dirty lying black bastard. They called you that? I'm branded a dirty line black bastard. And I'm shipped off to Wales to some foster parents. Yeah, right?

Because I wouldn't shit up about what had happened. and I was tied to a Welsh dresser and whipped continually until I regressed the memories and stopped speaking about it. Now, let me just go fast forward to 1980 and the home, Wootenvale Child Assessment Centre was closed down.

It was closed down as part of Operation Care. Operation Care was a Mezzisat police operation into the physical and sexual abuse of boys. And the pedophilic monsters masquerading as social workers went to prison. Now, your guests are familiar with Cat Williams. Cat Williams will give you the receipts for the truth he tells. Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to give you some documentation to flash up when this is playing, which is the receipts for everything, can I say. 60-year-old documents. I made a subject access request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. for my child files. Because when I brought all this to the fore, when I decided to fight back against the system, I was told I was a liar.

I wrote an unofficial white paper. I sent it to the Prime Minister, the Justice Minister and the Home Secretary record the delivery so they couldn't say they never got it. As a result of that. Merseyside, historical child abuse unit and D.C. Lee Stinchcombe.

made an investigation and they accessed my child files when he accessed my child files he said I'm glad I wasn't alive in the 1960s they made for some horror on reading he read them I lived them and everything that I've just told you

is there in those files oh I believe it I mean and I'm sure thousands of kids were abused in those homes here's the situation Just like in the Catholic Church. It's the situation. If I would have been believed in 1965, so many children's lives wouldn't have been ruined.

Yeah. This Jimmy Saville, yeah, has connections to the former Prime Minister Ted Heath. Yeah. And the ship, Morning Cloud. I'll give you his views look up Morning Cloud, Ted Heath. Yeah, he has connections to the British royal family. Yeah. He was knighted.

Yeah, and was a personal friend of the now king of England, Prince Charles. Yeah, I'm not an anti-royalist, yeah. I'm not an anti-elitist, yeah, right? These are the facts of the matter. Yeah. These are just matter of facts. These is what happened. Yeah.

Did he ever, did Jimmy Salva ever? He was exposed after he died. Okay. He's exposed. He's, he's, to give you some context, To give you some context. Spring weekends are all about family, sunshine, and evenings on the patio. Before everyone arrives, I stop by my local Total Wine and More to grab a great bottle to share.

With such a wide selection and the lowest prices, it's easy to find something amazing for everyone to enjoy. If you're not sure what to pick, their friendly guides can help. Find what you love and love what you find only at Total One. wine and more. Shop total wine and more in store or online. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. B-21.

He's a bit like Jeffrey Epstein. Are connected to intelligence, you think? Intelligence services? Connected to the World War. He had the run of so because I've been branded

a dirty lion black bastard. I've been internalize that. So I prove everything independently from my own word. And one of my favorite words is incontestable. What I'm going to tell you and what I'm going to share with the American audience is incontestable truth. And if anybody is interested, there's a book by D.C. Clive Driscoll called the pursuit of truth,

which is an investigation into elephants and castle into child abuse and satanic rituals and satanic abusive children. And his investigation was closed down by former Home Secretary Jack Straw who was a member of Tony Blair's government. Yeah? Because he ran into information

that indicated Leon Britain, another Tory high ranking Tory MP, loved to have sex with boys. They're everywhere, all over the place. So I managed, so... We've got to keep your story moving though, but that is... But that is fascinating. Coming to the point now.

Yeah, right, right. So this is where the seeds of the devil and the monster that I were placed in me when I left her home as an 11 year old boy that finally got back to home from Wales yeah yeah I was no longer I was no longer a smiling child

yeah yeah yeah I was filled with rage filled with anger filled with hostility and if you looked at me I'd stick a screwdriver in you were you whipped pretty often by your foster family was that on a daily basis oh my god on a daily basis till I I still carry scars on my back.

Well, I thanked them for it in a way, right? Because they tear me into a very robust individual. They tear me into an individual, right, with a high tolerance for pain, and a cold heart. The perfect makings of a gangster, there's a scene in heat where he says, if you can't turn your buck on 40 seconds on anything that's in your life

yeah yeah don't be a gangster don't embrace this life right yeah right and my weakness was my family yeah right people attack

people my enemies couldn't deal with me yeah right right and this this new set of young fellas this is why I ended up in jail in my 50s yeah right They'll threaten your children and your daughters and old school guys didn't do that. Old school guys kept it in the streets.

So tell us about the street. When you get back to Liverpool, you get into martial arts a little later. But when did you first start to be on some thug shit? No. See, I'm 11. And you've got to understand. Yeah, right.

my criminal aspirations and my political aspirations, yeah, you're right, and my aspirations to be free, yeah, right, were all strands on one rope, yeah, right, and they intertwined, and it wasn't like as,

as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, cut and dried as anything. You understand? You're right, because at the age of 11, there's an iconic picture, yeah, and I'll send you the iconic picture from the Sunday Observer magazine,

yeah, At 1971, yeah. I was a member of the YPP, Young Panther Party, yeah, right? I was a young Black Panther. Wow. I didn't know they had Panthers over here. See, this is why it's going to be an education for you.

Yeah. Without, there's a guy called Joey Joel. Joey Joel is family to my ex-wife. Without Joey Joel, yeah, Dave Clay, Dave Smith, yeah. And the likes of those, the older boys to me, there wouldn't have been a chapter here in the UK. But we did have a chapter here in the UK.

Yeah, we wore green jackets. Yeah, we wore green army jackets. We had sweet-affroles. And it was the breakout of black is beautiful. Sure. Angela Davis, the Soldad Brothers. Yeah, Huey P. Newton. Yeah, right?

And I had an elder brother than me. Yeah. And he has a technique of reading two books at a time. And the two books that he made me read was Malcolm Mexican's autobiography. And Walter Rodney's, how Europe underdeveloped Africa, those two books changed the way I looked at life. I wrote them when I was about 14, 15. I started the panfus when I was about 11. And what were you guys doing, organizing the community or what kind of activities? Black Panthers doing in Liverpool. Here's the situation. Yeah, right. As I told you, we're in the south end, the city. So our back is to the River Mersey.

Yeah, right. And we're surrounded. I'll describe it. I'll describe it this way for the American audience so they can understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were like an outpost, yeah. And General Custer's outpost, yeah, right? I was in bandy country and we were surrounded.

Yeah, right? So the black communities in the South End with the backs to the river Mersey was surrounded by Lodge Lane Boat Boys Park Road Boat Boys Ale Road Boat Boys Speak Road Boat Boys Yeah right now Boop Boys

Yeah or skinheads Skinheads Ben Sherman shirts braces Fleming jeans Harrington jackets Crombie coats and bright red

ox blood ox blood airwear Dr. Martin's airwear better known as shine stompers

we were the shines and they were the boots that they used to stop us with short dressers though in the early 70s in the early 70s a bit like America

we couldn't come out of our we couldn't come out to the community unless we came out to the community in a group because we'd be jumped right right I've seen a scene online for Louisiana.

Louisiana, they needed to have a nigger hunting license to go nigger hunting. Yeah, well, in the UK, right, it was shine stomping. Yeah, right? Shine stomping went on to pachy bashing, right? But it was all racially motivating. Right. It was all white skinheads wanting to pick on black, black, black geese. Right.

Yeah, right. And these are obviously white working class kids. These are not, these are not people of education or money. These are the same people that I went to school with. Right. These are the same people that I'm in class with. Uh-huh. These, these are the same people as me.

Yeah, right? But I'll give you a, for example, when I got to school in the first year, The P.E. Master said to me, I've put you in the 100 metres and the 200 meters and the javelin. Yeah, because you spare chuckers are fast. You understand? Wow. This is teacher.

I was 11. Yeah. I waited four years to get him for that. Yeah. What did you do to him when you got him? When we played against the teachers and when I was 15 and we played against the teachers in the basketball, he jumped up for the basketball and I just whacked them in the guts. I just whack them in the goods.

Good for you. Today's episode is brought to you by Mando. Mando, the whole body deodorant. You guys know I've been preaching about Mando for the last couple of months by now. It's the only deodorant I use. They sent me a free pack a while ago. I tried it and I'm hooked. I am a customer.

It's whole body deodorant. You can use it in your pits, your crevices, bottoms of your feet. It is completely aluminum-free, die-free, vegan. It's got all of the properties of good deodorant, but none of the bad stuff. Mando was created by a dermatologist who saw firsthand how B.O. was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. Mando comes with four incredible scents, including Mount Fuji, Bourbon Leather, Clover Woods, and Pro Sport. Mando is clinically proven to control body odor long after you get out of the shower,

way more than the other leading brands. Check this out. According to a study, 12 hours after a man gets out of the shower and uses deodorant, His grundle odor is 5 out of 10, meaning he is halfway towards being fully funkified again, okay? With Mando, the grundle odor, zero out of 10. Mando's starter pack is perfect for new customers. Check it out. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, a cream tube deodorant, and two free products of your choice, like baby wipes and deodorant wipes, plus free shipping.

As a special offer for listeners, new customers get $5 off a starter pack when you use their exclusive code. That equates to over 40% off your starter pack when you use code Mitchell, M-I-T-C-H-E-L at shopmando.com. Again, that's shopmando, S-H-O-M-A-N-D-O-O-com when you use that promo code, Mitchell. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Smell fresher, stay drier, and boost your confidence from head to toe when you use Mando. Today's episode is sponsored by PrizePix. You guys know Prize Picks if you love the show by now.

PrizePix is America's number one daily fantasy sports app. Are you a casual sports fan like me but love firing on action? PrizePix is the perfect app for you. Check it out. You're not playing against professionals. It's just you versus the numbers. This is what you do. You just pick more or less on at least two players for a shot to win up to 1,000 X your cash.

Run your game all season long on prize picks. It's playoff time, gentlemen and ladies. It's now or never. Don't miss out on the last few weeks. weeks of football action with prize picks. The best place to win cash while watching the playoffs. That's for sure. And now, Price Picks offers MasterCard for quick and easy deposits into your account this

sports season. And check it out. We got a New Year's promo for you. Sign up today and get $50 instantly when you play just $5. You don't even need to win to receive the $50 bonus. It's guaranteed. Price Picks also offers weekly promotions that can lead to big payouts like Taco Tuesday. Each Tuesday, prize picks discounts select player projections up to 25%

to provide even more value for your lineups. You guys, take it for me, a casual sports fan who doesn't have time to study all of the information necessary to become a professional. It's so simple to use, and it's actually made me more of a sports fan. It makes watching that game, that boring NCAA game that you don't really care about, makes it that much more exciting. And it is the best way in daily fantasy sports to bubble, to turn that little $10 into a lot more. more. Download the app today and use code

Connect, C-O-N-N-E-C-T to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Once again, that's promo code C-O-N-N-E-C-T to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. Now, I know America's a racist country

and I wasn't alive in 1970, but I'm fairly certain that you know teachers were calling their black students spear-chuckers. It's a different kind of of racism over here. I can't quite put my finger on it. So listen, let me explain to you, right? So you've got, you've got American racism. You've got South African racism. That's top shelf stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. You're part of, yeah, yeah. You can't do it. We'll kill you. Yeah. Now, you still go what, what you call some sundown towns in America. There's still certain parts of the states that is as bad as it ever was. Yeah, right. Well, here, yeah, yeah. It's all subtle. Yeah. Soul? So subtle.

S subtle. Yeah, yeah. It's not, it's not as ovars. See, in the seven, I feel. That's pretty overt. I know. Spear chucker, it's pretty on the nose. That was the 70s.

Right. So let me, let me quantify it. In the 1970s, the demon of racism, right, right, was easily to identify, stomping around. Yeah, yeah. You'd have nigger on TV. Yeah, the teacher could call you the spiritual, okay? You could do it.

Then we had some legislation brought in some equal opportunities, some legislation brought in with it. It started to tone down. Yeah, right. What years were those? In 1976. Okay. Yeah, right.

So that would have been like your version of like the Civil Rights Act. Correct. In 1965. Yeah, yeah, right. Got it. I'm made discrimination illegal. Right. Yeah, right?

So, so, so, and, um, but then also what you've got to remember, right? right, right? It's now, I'm 16. I've started martial arts. Yeah, right. I'm growing there.

I'm starting to be, I'm starting to, my balls have dropped. Yeah, yeah, right, right. I've been pummeled, pummeled for the first 16 years in real life. Yeah. Now, right, two things would have happened to me. I should have either capitulated, yeah, right? Or become a junkyard dog. Yeah.

Yeah. I became a junkyard dog. Right. Yeah. I'm starting to move through. I'm starting to get tall. Yeah. I'm starting to get muscles.

Yeah. I'm starting to get testosterone. Right. Yeah, right. Right. And I'm not a bad street fighter. Yeah. And you're a big kid.

I was six foot one at 11. Six foot one, a size of 11 feet at 11. I was a man child. Anyway, but I was like a stick insect. 2.15, 2.13 is the explosion of the martial arts with Bruce. yet, right? But I didn't follow loosely.

I followed Jim Kelly. Because when I seen Jim Kelly putting two police officers into the bin, I said, I want to be that guy. Yeah, right? And that's what my love with martial arts starts.

Right. Yeah. How did your love of martial arts, how did that flourish or become, like you traveled all over Europe fighting in competitions, I believe, right? And you were successful.

Correct. I think he might have lost to some Americans, That's about it. Yeah, that's acceptable. You know what I mean? Okay. Because we excel. But hopefully it wasn't a white guy.

Okay. But you, how did this become, how did this lead into your criminal career? Okay. So I start martial arts 15, 16, 17. I meet my partner in crime. Andrew John. Yeah, PIC. Yeah, right.

Right. And we jail. Yeah, right. Is he a black guy or white guy? He's a mixed race, exactly the same as me. It's that function of dad and his mom's white. Exactly the same. Got.

Right. We became blood brothers. He, uh, we're facing severe unemployment. We can't get anything yet, right? It's 1976. Homosexuality is still illegal.

Yeah, right? It's still illegal. Yeah, right? And the, the, homosexuals, they meet in underground toilets. Yeah? And our choice of crime then was street robbery, mugging. Do you know what mugging is?

Mugging, yeah. Mugging, I think you've got another name for the... Anyway, it's just sticking people up for the goods, the watches, and they... Give me a wallet. Yeah, right? Very popular in New York City back then, too. Yeah, yeah. You would do at gun points.

Yeah, yeah, right? We were using our martial arts to do we. You understand? Yeah, right? So there was a space of street robberies. and where the victims, because they were victims had been kicked from a standing position in the head so they knew it was karate people.

They knew it was martial arts people. But the beauty of that robbery was because homosexuality was illegal, they couldn't go to the police. Oh, so you were doing this to gay guys. Yeah, yeah. Wow. They weren't called gay then. They were called homosexuals.

Yeah, you could be gay. and happy, they weren't called gay then, and I'm not homophobic in any way, shape, the form. I've got a gay brother. You understand? Yeah. It's, it's, it's, um, um,

it was, it was because they were coming into our area. Mm-hmm. Because we knew they had money and because we knew they couldn't go to the police. Right. Yeah. This is the base,

the origins of, of, of, of taxation. Yeah. The inability to report the. crying. Right. You understand? Yeah, right. And that finish those,

that, we were doing that, we were doing martial arts, we were training. When I really became of age, was the 1981 uprising. Yeah, right. Now, the 1981 uprising

was as a result of the then chief constable Kenneth Oxford and he says, the mixed race community because we've come on a problem there was loads of us they used to call us half the half cast lads you're right

which is half white half black right so we were the we were the offcast boys yeah right that's what we were called half cast that's so archaic yeah well we're talking late 70 we're talking 50 years ago so it's not it's my lifetime no it's pretty recent I was born in 86 this is happening in 80

so 81 no so so he says he says he says the half-cast community of Liverpool is the results between the liaisons of white Irish prostitutes and black African and Caribbean seamen.

Yeah, right. That was the tenderbox to the riot. Plus, the police brutality and the police see everybody, we usually say to tell everybody the police beat you up and the arrest you to do this but nobody believed us. Now, with the advent of mobile phones and cameras,

Everybody knows it's true. Of course. But when we were saying it, nobody was believing us. And we were brutalized. Yeah. Right. But now those immigrants that came post-world war, right? Right.

We were now their sons. We're now 20 years of age. We're born in this country. We've gone to school, which is, yeah. We know, yeah, yeah, right, right, that your shit stinks. You understand? Yeah, right. So let's have it.

Right. How do the ride start? a fascinating story. So the popular story is a popular story goes with a guy called Lee Roy Cooper. A bike was stolen. Yeah right the boy something over the rest of the bike and Leary was complaining that his friend had been arrested. Leroy Cooper God rest was he wasn't even there. He was arrested and he was taken away. It was on Mulgrave Street facing the Caribbean center. Yeah right and then they took him away and there was three coppers left and one of the coppers looked at my partner in crime

Andrew John and was trying to arrest him and Andrew John gave me what is called the look yeah and the look is are you with me yeah are we are we doing this is this happening to us yeah maybe four seconds later yeah five seconds later three coppers were unconscious Andrew John my dead brother yeah through the first punch of the Toxist, right? Wow. I three the second.

And you knocked them out with one each? We knocked them out. We took the jackets off them. Yeah, right. And we pushed the car, the police car. There was a roadworks. Yeah. And pushed the police car down the road.

Yeah, yeah. Sergeant striped jackets. Yeah, right? And it went from there. It went, it was spontaneous. Wow. From there. That's a piece of history.

It's, see, not many people know that. They put it down to him. You're right. Now, there was a guy called Ivan Freeman. I've sought Ivan Freeman out

because I'm documenting everything. And Ivan remembers it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Andrew John, through the first punch of the

1981 South End uprising. So you guys, you knocked out these three coppers and then what was the end result of that riot of that uprising? That lasted 13 days. Wow.

and the only way they disbanded us and disbanded us, CS Gas was used on the British mainland for the first time. It only ever been used in Northern Ireland. But to quell our ferocity and to get us to go to stop fighting. Yeah, yeah, right? It was used on the, and the only thing that did us was, and I remember, excuse me, I remember a CS canister gas, a CS canister pellie,

and we found it, and it has on it, not to be fired at individuals. I know a guy called Phil Robo, yeah. Phil Robo was shot in the chest with it. Now, when you, anybody wants to stop the tape and typing the names into a Google engine, they'll find everything I'm saying is there. They'll find that everything I'm going to operate,

I operate on a policy of rigorous honesty. Yeah, right? I'm bringing candor and I'm bringing truth to the stories that I'm bringing because I'm a man on a mission, a man with an agenda, yeah, right? What were the results of, I mean, what happened during the riot? Does it look like the Watts riot? Is it buildings burning and how many people were involved in it?

Was it a race riot? So, so, so it was, it was a riot against the police. It was a riot against depression. Yeah, right, right? And it was also a race riot, yeah, right? Although lots of white guys from, that live with us, yeah, that lived in our community, fought alongside us. Right.

Yeah, right, because it's, you, your, your viewers will know what I was toxic. It wasn't called toxic then. It was called a self-end, yeah, right? A bit like Queens, New York. Yeah, that was our. place. Right. You understand?

Yep. That was our tear. And you guys, are you attacking cops, attacking police stations? So this is what happened. 400 police officers were injured, sent to hospital.

Yeah. 11 million pounds worth of damage, which would be about 50 million now. 700's arrests and one fatality. Yeah, yeah. The young man that died was a guy called David Moore. David Moore had a club foot David Moore was a white guy

and David Moore had a club foot Yeah the police used to lose Land Rovers Then they began to try to run us over And David because of his club foot Got run over Oh yeah yeah He died

Two police officers were charged with manslaughter They were found not guilty Fared down there And it went There's now a street named after them Wow As a result of that Yeah

We then became, the journalist came, the senior district was called Toxtet, it then became Toxtis all across the world, it was right across Europe, yeah. But it became a no-go area. Right. It became a no-go area. Yeah.

And we grew like Redwoods. Who is we? The solid gold posse. Yeah? The solid-goal posse, yeah, right? Was a posse of armed rubbers. and how you would get your kitty. You know what a kitty is?

When you club your money together. Yes. Yeah. Right. A kitty is when several individuals pool their money together for an enterprise. Right. Yeah, right. Like union dues almost.

Yeah, right? So you'd rob a bank. Yeah. And you get your money together. Yeah, right? and then you go to Holland and you buy cocaine in Holland and then it shipped the hog

once you got the cocaine from Holland to the United Kingdom yeah right it became incredibly valuable yeah right for example if if it costs you let's say 20,000 pounds in Amsterdam for a kilo of cocaine

and 2,000 pounds to transport it you've landed it for 22. Right? That's 90% pure cocaine. Right. You can make that into two and a half kilos or three kilos. You can sell the kilos of 33 each. You're tripling your money.

You're right. But it's done in large numbers. Wow. Allegedly. So anyway. So you guys, did you form the solid gold group? No, no. They were already around.

This is a situation. So. Andrew John and I were martial artists in certain nightclubs in Liverpool yeah right and this is well documented too they operated a colour bar

no blacks you can't come in yeah you know right so we started to beat up dormant yeah right and then I slipped into what you call security wear And I had my first security firm, Scorpio Security Services. I opened that up in 1983.

Okay. Yeah. So you got your own company at 24 years old. Wait, see, I've got my own company. These, these, but this is my crew. Andy Palmer, British amateur boxing heavyweight champion. Andrew John, British karate champion. Brian Schumacher,

captain of the 1984 Olympic boxing team. Jimmy Price, yeah, 1982 Commonwealth gold medalist. Yeah, yeah. Wow. And yours truly is the leader. Wow.

Yeah. Jimmy James Stiles. Yeah, yeah. And we set up camp behind enemy lines. The white neighborhoods? Where's Southend? Yeah, yeah.

North end. Liverpool's the North end. Yeah, yeah, right? Southend are Catholics. North end are Protestants, yeah, right? And the niggers are supposed to be able to go to the South end. Yeah, yeah. I went to the South End.

I went to the North End. Right. Yeah, right. Because, because Liverpool, Scoutsors in Britain have got a reputation for being militant. There's only one group of people more militant than Scoutsors.

And that's black spouses. Those are black people from the South End of Liverpool? Scoutsers are white guys. Yeah, yeah. I'm a scouser, but I'm a black scouser. You understand? Yeah, right? Scouts are militants.

We're known to be militant. People say Liverpool, we're not even part of England, but our own country. You understand. A bit like New Yorkers, stand out, stand alone. A lot of, but I mean native New Yorkers. Right, right. People go to live in New York. Right.

Yeah. So, so Liverpool actually reminds me of the Belfast of England in terms of how the history, the segregation, the militancy involved. politics. That is, that is, and a very shootup observation, because that's exactly what it is. Thanks, baby.

That's exactly what it is. So what is the firm? So now you've got this ferocious group of ex-fighters. So we're in there. Yeah, right? Yeah, what are you making money? So, so I'm working for the company called Mechahe, Mech a Leisure North West. Yeah, yeah.

We're making, my guys are making 500 pound a week each, yeah, right? Which is about 2,000. now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Or fiddle and, and what we're doing

on the door. Okay, can explain that because we don't know what fiddle is. So, so, so let's say,

let's say, let's say, let's say, it's 10 dollars to go in the club, yeah, right? And it's 40 years. Yeah, yeah, right?

So that's $40 to go in, yeah, right? I take it in as my guess for $20. Mm. And I just say to the people, these are my cousins

or these are this, yeah, yeah, but I'm just, I'm just gangsteading, the staff, yeah, right? And I'm just putting the money in my pocket.

Sure. It's called a fiddle. Right. Understand. Yeah, right. And I also had the girl on the clicker that that worked with me. And we made a fortune. Wow.

Just off that, like, petty nickel and diamond. Yeah, right. Wow. So, so where does mock this brass, lad? Where does muct there's brass? So anyway, we, Andrew and I are getting a reputation, right, right, right? Of heavy hitsers for violence, physical violent guys. Yeah, yeah.

You come to our club, you try anything on, you get knocked out. That was our motto. And the cocaine scene, the cocaine and the tablet scene was just starting off. I wasn't involved in the drugs.

A guy came and seen us, because I was also doing commercial debt recoveries. A guy came and seen us and said he had a kilo of cocaine taken off him. Yeah, right? And that if we could get back for them. Yeah, yeah, he gave us

four to five thousand pounds. We received the cocaine, but then Andrew was friends, so was I, was friends with him. We went to the same school and this is the name that you guys was Curtis Water. Kayseswater made a rich list for

as a cocaine button. Right? So this is Ketis is just starting off at this time. Yeah. Yeah, right? It's all brand new. It's all early 80s. We go to see Curtis, yeah, yeah, and Ketis tells us what the cocaine's worth. So I keep it. Yeah, yeah, I keep it.

You keep the Coke, Curtis's Coke that was stolen from. No, no, Cretace's Coke. Okay. The man that came and seen us asked us to do a job for him. Let me get it clear, chronologically clear. We did the job for him, got the cocaine back, but then I wanted to know what it was where, really. Right. So I went to a cocaine deal.

dealer. Yeah. And he told me what it was actually with. And when I seen what a kilo of cocaine with. Yeah. And where I was working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have the ability to spot a deal. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like

Columbus. Well, that doesn't take. It doesn't land with the Indians thinking, oh, this'll be easy. You understand? Well, I don't think it takes an explorer to see that a free kilo of 40,000. dollar cocaine get you in the game but yeah right so then then we're working we're working on where we're we're we're me and Andrew are working on the door yeah right right we've got our

own crew we've got our own a import exports a group we're doing we're doing we're doing we're doing we're doing we're we're doing you're in the game now you're selling car right right there was lots of different groups doing it right and there was lots of fallouts so say you and him were working together yeah right and then you got to good parcel and then you decide you're not paying him and you're keeping everything. Lots of disgrunt people used to come and find us. Lots of disgrunt people used to come to find us

and give us the information about well this is there, that's there, this is what going. And this is how the taxation started. This is how the kidnapping started. This is how the torture and the drug dealer started for the money. And it was an extension of robbing the homosexual

when I was a young lad because who could they go and tell? Sure. If they weren't strong enough to hold on to what they had, and I modeled myself on the British Empire. If you're not strong enough

to hold on to your goods, I'm going to take them off yet. Sure, sure. So you guys were, how much, give us a scenario, right? Like say, I'm a drug dealer in Liverpool, I got jacked for five kilos. Somebody hit me for five birds.

I come to you, how much you're going to charge me to go get it back? So they would come. They'd say, they'd say, I've got, I had a share under five beds and they fuck them up for my share. All I want is my share. Right. Then they would tell me the insides of the operation. They would tell me the safe houses. They would tell me anything.

They would tell me who the key players were. They would tell me what I needed to know, right? And all I needed to know was the information. Yeah. And I will give you 5% of whatever I make. Yeah, right? Because I'm going to take everything. Yeah, I'm not just going to go and get your 5 key.

Right, right. Yeah, I'm going to take what they've got. And I'm going to take the money. Yeah, right? And then, and then I will pay you 5% of what I've got. That's not very much. But it's better than nothing. Right?

So let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say you've lost 50 grand. I do a hit of a million quid. You've got 5% of a million quid. You've got well over your 50. Right, of course. You're right. Of course. See, what you've got to understand.

Oh, that's right. Is I'm bringing a business mentality. Yeah. That's why I don't say prices. I always wear from percentages. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right? Because it's about volume.

Right. Right. And then when, when you might, it's like, it's like, so a guy could come from Liverpool. down here, and here is a safe house. Yeah, yeah. And behind that TV is a safe, and you've got 40 kilos of cocaine in that safe.

He's come with his money, he's bought everything of you and he's gone back to Liverpool. You know, think that's a done deal. He comes with all that information tells me. Yeah, I now know that in that house there, there's two guys sitting in there, they got 40 kilos behind the thing, the money comes in, the money comes house, yeah, yeah,

and I'm just coming in. Right. I'm coming in and I'm doing what I do. Right. You understand? And it was all about information. Sure. Yeah.

So sometimes it wouldn't even be a person who got ripped off. It would be a guy who's in the game and he comes to you. There's all different scenarios there. Right. I give it for an example. Yeah, right? And at that period in my life, I was anti-wise. Yeah.

The white guys had everything lockdown. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, we, we, we was getting scraps as far as I was concerned. Yeah, right. And I'm living in the strangest jungle, have it? This is a jungle where sheep are fat and lions are thin. Yo, that's a strange jungle.

What biblical verse is that? That's beautiful. Right. So, no, that's, that's vintage steep in French. Right. So, so the lions at the feed. You've got to remember who are first generation British born blacks. I'll tell you who we are.

We're the last generation to stand up to Tory tyranny. We stood up in Toxtlet, Liverpool, Mossside, Manchester, Chapel Town Leeds, Hansworth, Birmingham, Brixton, South London, Tottenham, North London. And don't forget the oldest community in Britain, St. Paul's Bristol. we set the country on fire where the last ones to do we you know what if I was your prison counselor

I would say you're justifying right now you're rationalizing Stephen do you think part of you listen you were driven obviously by political ideology but also greed one of the things one of the things about me is I have the ability

to rationalize anything we all do all criminals do and yes now let me so let me just be honest. Yeah, right. I didn't rob drug dealers and steal the money because I was anti-drugs.

I robbed drug dealers and steal the money because I wanted the money. I did everything think for the money. It was all about the paper. I was living a very extremely selfish life. Yeah, I was extremely damaging individual. Yeah. But I can understand how being politically motivated early, you have these cravings to be free

and later you find out it's easier to rob drug dealers to make money than it is to be a Black Panther organizing the community and being broke. So by the way, I just want you to know I'm not, no judgment here in this podcast. Listen, listen, listen, that's a good analysis of it. Yeah, right?

Well, here's you the thing. Yeah. When I stole my money, yeah, yeah, lots of people at. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Women got the lights put on. Right. Yeah, children got new clothes.

Baby got new shoes. Right. You understand? Yeah, right. Everybody, everybody riding on my back. Right. You understand. And I was happy to do that.

Right. Yeah, right. I was happy because I was young. I was strong. Yeah, yeah, right? And I had endless energy. Yeah. And I also had this rage inside me.

Yeah. And I always knew I was, more than just a criminal. But I was criminalized at an early age. Yeah. A policy of criminalization was implemented against us from 1940 to 1971 where we were criminalized. Same like they did with the Irish.

First time I was ever arrested, the keys put it in my hood. And I'm not crying or complaining. I don't do that. I'm quite stoic about it all. But I know how it was set on the road that I was on. I know how the rage was put inside me. This is what the devil decode.

It's about. Yeah. Because I've also just completed five years of psychoanalytic therapy, which was marvelous. Let's put a pin in that. That makes total sense. I definitely get that. So now, I mean, you must have gotten rich very quickly if you're hitting these scores. Okay.

Tell us about like a memorable score. So, so, so. And by the way, did you go in with guns? So let me, let me tell, let me tell, let me say it about a memorable score. Yeah. And I can, I can, I can use the names in this because the guys went to jail for it. Yeah. And the crimes he's did, he's done it.

He was a heroin dealer. Yeah. His name was Paul. Yeah, let's just call him Paul. You know who he is. Yeah. His name was Paul. And Paul was about maybe eight, nine years younger than me.

Yeah, yeah. I was mid-20s. He was like being a teenager, yeah, but he was heavily into him. Wow. Into Brown. Anyway, inside his mom's house, yeah. I was armed. Yeah, pulled a gun on him.

I took the, four, four kilos, four kilos. with heroin off him. Wow. Yeah, yeah. But then I've got him into the car, right? Because I'm taking him to the stash to get the rest. Yeah. It's called emptying them out.

I want everything. Yeah. It's a clearance sale. Give me your shoes too. By the way, were you masked up or did you want people to know who you were? No. No. He knew all was.

Yeah, yeah, right. I've done it. I've done, I've done both. Yeah, he knew he was. He knew he was being gangsted. Yeah. Now, I'm driving the car with a guy of mine called Darden. I'm driving the car and I'm not a very good driver.

I'm not a getaway driver. And the police come behind us. Darren says to me, kick it, kick, which means take off. But I've got a gun, four kilos of brown. And I think I can talk me way out of it. right right right right he doesn't know I don't want to see what he wants to stop us for and I always got the opportunity

because it was one copper on his own yeah right right that if it's going badly we'll just knock him out and get off right right so I'm talking to him and I've got him I've got him lined up

and he's got a rugby union a rugby logo for rugby and I said to him oh are you a rugby union or a rugby league guy I love me rugby that was it wow

he lets us go get back in the car that and looks at me and he says to me, you're unbelievable. How do you do that? But this was the cold, this was the stillness and the brains and everything. I had a piece down my back. I had everything that I needed.

I had them lined up. But I didn't want to take the chase because I knew I can't drive. And then everything was wrong. Right. Everything. It wasn't good to run away. No. Yeah, right?

Unless we had to. Anyway. So how many keys of brown did you end up taking? We ended up about 10 kilos. And heroin must have been worth like, 40 grand. Wholesale? Yeah, 40 grand wholesale.

Yeah. But million quits were if easy. Million quits were if easy. Wow. With no cost. Yeah. No overhead. So did you guys, these drugs that you were stealing, you were selling them off?

Did you become your own drug dealers? Or did you just sell the drugs you stole and then go back to stealing? A robin, no, no. It's called food. Yeah. Yeah. I've got food. If you want me to feed you,

Come on, free me. Now, there's certain people that you would make pay. And there's certain people that you would lay on. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then they would come back and they would pay you. Yeah, right? But I had other people that dealt with that for me.

You understand? Yeah, right. I was just an enforcer. Yeah. I was just, if you fuck about with my money, that's when you're seeing me. Yeah. If you fuck about with Andrew's money,

that's when you're seeing him. You understand? You're right? And then we had crew members that were happy to handle that business and make their share and just like the mafia everything gets kicked up

right everything gets kicked up and you're the boss and um um you and if I if I if I if I if I rob a million pounds worth of drugs yeah and I end up with

a quarter of a million quid out of it for myself I'm happy yeah I'm happy right yeah I'm not agree if if 750 grand is gone and fed the crew and everybody's happy and everybody's making money. Of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? Well, that's, that's harmonious. Right. Yeah, right. And you can just, and this is why there was no prison. Right. This is why there was no charges. This is why there was no, no, no, um, it's unbelievable.

It's, it's, it's not really. Not really. It happens everywhere. It's just, it's like I was, it's like I was in, um, I was in Birmingham. on Sunday doing some work with chairman TV. Yeah, yeah. And they wanted somebody from the community, something about early release prisoners, right?

I went to, I went and found the Buckees, yeah. They're off license. The Buckees, the off license, and the news agents, yeah? And I said, within 50 yards of here, there'll be some drug dealers. Looked up the corner, three black guys on the corner. So there's the drug dealers. Every community's the same.

Understand? Not mine. I live in a very, very safe white. We call the cops on black drug dealers. I'm talking about urban areas, urban inner city areas. Yeah, right. Because I bet a juxtapose very close to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

America's so big, so different. He is so small. Everything's on top of each other. Yeah, yeah. But you're right. These, we call them like, ancillary or secondary cities now. It used to be New York City was the place where there were drug dealers in every corner.

Now it's been pushed out to New Jersey. Jersey and places in like upstate, right? That kind of is England has that same thing. London, there's no... It's called county lines. County lines, right. What you've got to remember, Johnny, right, right? Is I'm talking early 80s.

Right. Yeah, right. I'm talking way less CCTV. Yeah, not. I'm talking, I'm talking, the police aren't nowhere near as advanced as they are today. No. Yeah, right? It's kind of a free-for-all.

Yeah. And a wild west. And nobody really knows what's going on at that time. You can go to Holland and you can send your granny to and your granny can come through with a suitcase and she won't have no problem. Right. Yeah, right. It was very, very, the law enforcement was behind. Yeah.

Lord enforcement had to catch up. I mean, I don't even think British cops had guns back then. No, British police have always been armed. Oh, they, okay, is that a myth that British cops don't have guns? There's always been armed police. Yeah, right, right. The police, the bobby on the police or the regular cop, it's not regular, you have an arm division. Right.

You have an arm response. Oh, I see. Yeah, right. And they got to get a phone call, firearms used, yeah, right? And then they have an armed response. Okay. Okay. But they didn't have, did England have its own, like, version of the DEA back in the 80s?

No. Oh, so it is a wild, it's for the taking. Back in the 80s, it was CID. Okay. Yeah, right. And the police was not as sophisticated, yeah, or technologically savvy as they are now. Yeah, right, right.

But they had to move with the times like everybody does, yeah, right? But back then, but they just, we was always racially profiled. But we had to work with inside that. Yeah, right? So if I was going somewhere, yeah, right? And we had, we was, we was on a call-outs. We'd always have three cars. Yeah, right.

All the lads have been a car, yeah, right? And then we'd have a guy, we had a guy called Pisa Ginley. We used to call him clink, yeah, because he'd drive a nice little blender. And you'd have all the tools, yeah, right? Yeah, right. Right. Not an honest, yeah, right? Right.

He's, he's like, what you call a blender, white guy, he just wouldn't think to stop him, you understand. And that's how we used to operate. Yeah. Yeah, right. And he was also good for me. moving drugs. Right. You understand.

So you guys were a firm, as you call them in Britain. You guys were a crew. You did have drug dealing in the crew, but you also had taxation, robbery, which was something you handled. Were there any other earners, any other money-making operations? I was a social entrepreneur, right? And I believed in revenue streams. Yeah.

And my brother, who was a business. a regular guy, yeah, I had a community organization called Third World Promotions. We used to run the Maisyside International Caribbean Carnival, brought Liverpool City Centre to a standstill, 500 people in the city. We used to do that every year.

As a result of that, I went to Sweden, Stockholm Water Festival, and I had dinner in the Golden Palace with King Gustav. Oh wow. Yeah, I've done a lot of interesting things. And he had no idea what you were up to back in Liverpool.

Until I let out the bag myself, nobody did. Were you dressed like, how did you dress? You're dressed very British gangster right now. All black. All black clothes, black cars, black women. Wow. Yeah. Revolutionary.

I was part of the black intelligence. Yeah. I was part of the black awakening. I was part of, you ain't treating us like that no more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of shoes like that, would cut your throat.

Let's see, because, and the idea, I had this argument with my counsel, that's rationalization, that's this, that's that, violence doesn't work.

I said, it does work. Yeah? And she said, well, how can you? I said, well, look, America wants Iraq's oil.

Iraq won't give it to them. So they go over there, bummed a fuck out of them and take the oil. Violence works. Yeah, right? It might be nice. It doesn't work in the long term, but it does in the short term. Listen, listen.

I hear what you're saying. Yeah, right. But it's about short-term. For me, it was about short-term goals. It was about getting what I wanted when I needed. Yeah, right? And I'm not, I'm not saying, I'm arguing that you can't say violent doesn't work. I'm arguing, you're right?

Because every empire that's been built. has been built on violence. Yeah. How long are you operating at this level, this relentless robbing, drug dealing, running? After, so, after 1980, after the riots,

I believed that Andrew John and I were invincible. And for the short period in time, we were. He went on the job with, an untested crew. I told him not to go and do the job. He went and done the job.

And Andrew was the bag man. Do you know what the bag man is? No. Okay, so when you're going to go, it was a security van. So when you're going to go and do the security van? Yeah, you've got your driver. Yeah, you've got your bag man.

He's the one that's going to grab the money. All the money. Sure. Yeah, right, grab the money. And then you got your two guys that are going to run interference. Yeah, right? and deal with any Johnny come lately

do good as excuse the pun, Johnny That's all right Yeah So Andrew always got the bag So he's gone on to this robbery They've promised them X amount He's got the bag

But in the process of He's getting the bag He damaged the security card pretty badly Hmm the driver who was untested drove off and left him Andrew made off right and run he was unfortunate that three students seen him and one of them was an athletic

middle distance running and just slotted him behind him like Kip Kano just jump here no no no no no because he was robbing a bank it right Andrew got into it got into a taxi yeah said to the taxi driver, I give you all for this if you drive me away. Taxi driver jumped out of the taxi.

Yeah. And by this time, the police had turned up and the guy that had just been keeping him in his distance said, he's in that car there. And he ended up doing four years. They were robbing an armoured track or something? Security.

You know, it's called a security van. Yeah. Security van. Yeah. We robbed factories, banks, payroll factories, the payroll in factories, banks, and cash in transit. You know, cash in transit. That would be like an armored truck in America. Yeah, they are armored trucks.

Yeah, they are. But they're not armored here. They have buttons. They don't have guns. Right. Yeah, right. We have them in America, so they're armored. Okay.

So you were doing scores all over. He's gone to jail. Right. I'm working in the, he comes out of jail. Yeah. We're getting to medeatis. Yeah. We're still doing robberies.

We're still ticking over doing the drugs. And we're making, we're living like kings. You must be making millions of dollars. We're living like, quid. Listen, listen, lots and lots of money was made. Yeah. Lots and lots of money was spent. Yeah, right.

The police watch these videos all the time. That's all I'm prepared to say. You understand? Lots and lots of money was made. Lots and lots of money was spent. The streets say 20 million. 20 million quid. That's what I heard.

It is an exaggeration. It was an exaggeration for the book. Let me give you an example. Okay. When I was going to move, right? When I decided I was finished, you know, I decided that I was going to go buy an American green card. And in order to buy an American green card,

You had to buy an American property. You had to buy an American business like a Tahoe Bells and employ American staff. You guys, I was going to live in a gated community and you had to show them $5 million in the bank. I could do that. Okay. I could do that.

Where were you going to move to in America? Maryland, because my wife's sister had tenure at Howard University. And I was going to send my daughter to Howard because I'm a great believer in education too. You're right. I was still married at that time.

This is around 205, right, when I was ready to just, but I decided on the island that I was going to give something back. Hold on. So between 1985 and 2005, what happened in those 20 years? So I'm going to tell you, yeah, right? So it's 1980, the riots. We were robbing people with drug dealing, we're robbing banks, we're making our money,

we were doing what we do, we're young men in our 20s. Yeah. And we're growing like Redwoods. Kertes, Water is beginning to develop. You're right? So it turns now out now, right? The two biggest crews, one's crew's mine. One crew's his.

What's the name of your crew? My crew, my crew was, I was involved with a crew called a solid gold posse. That wasn't actually my crew. That was the bank robbers crew. Right. My crew was me, Andrew, and a guy called Mudge. Yeah, right. Mudge was our banker.

Yeah, right? What was your crew named? Named, though. They nicknamed was Morphy Richards. Murphy Richards is an iron. It's an iron company. Apparently somebody got bent with an iron to give up the money. Oh, okay.

Wow. Yeah, got an iron put on the back. And they gave up their stash. Mm-hmm. Allegedly. Yeah, right? Of course. So, so, um, he's come out of jail.

Yeah, yeah, right? I've got one of, one of the key reasons why I never did any jail. is I had legitimate businesses also in order to justify the lavish lifestyle that I was living. Yeah? Yeah. So when the police come to me, I could account for the money that I had.

What kind of businesses do you have? I had a security business. I had a building business. I had a catering business. Yeah. I had debt recovery business. multifaceted businesses, but I'm coming to that. Yeah, right?

Let me come to it this way. Yeah, right? So one day, Mudge's wife comes to me and she says to me, he is getting high on the own supply. Crack is just kicking in. Yeah. Yeah?

Crack was whack. This is when everything got fucked up. Crack fucked everything up. Yeah, because the violence went off. the charts with the crack. That's when everybody started getting guns and shooting each other in the UK. Right. So

she comes and sees me and she says he's getting high on his own supply. He's the banker. Do you know what I mean by that? He's minding the money. Right. He's the banker. I go and check the kitty. And the kitty's

30K light. There's late 80s. 30K then. That's got to be four trees. It's got to be 120 grand now. It's 120 grand out of our buy money. Right. Yeah, right? Which is, you know what re-up is?

Re-up is what we call it. Yeah, yeah, right. So that's our re-up money. So I take him to task. And he says to me, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Well, I know a drug dealer. I know that he's getting ready to make a buy.

Yeah, yeah. He's got 30 large in the house. waiting to make the buy, yeah, right? And there's the money that I've lost right there, but you've just got to break into the house. So I said to, okay, but you're not coming with me, yeah, right, because you're a mess, yeah, right?

He says the guy's name's Sean. I don't rob people that I know. I've got certain golden rules. One of the golden rules is, I don't rob people that I know, yeah, right? If you're working with me, you get paid. I never rip you off ever working together, but if you fuck me over,

don't cry when I fuck you over, back 10 times where he's. There me golden wheels. So I've broke into this house, Johnny, and I'm rooting everywhere for this 30 can, and I can't find it. But I'm a very determined individual. So I decide to wait for the man to come home.

Yeah? And when he's going to come home, I'm going to overpower him. Yeah. I'm going to do what's necessary to find out where this money is. The door opens and it's our driver Ricky Gainer

from the goals solid gold posse he's on our crew he's my guy I'm in his house with a ball of carver on and the bat wow

yeah right I grab him by his arms and I throw him on the floor yeah and I tried to make off and he reaches up and he pulls my balaclavar off and he goes

what are you doing? Yeah, you're right. Surprise. In panic. In panic. I open his face up like a watermelon. Oof. Wack him.

His face opens up. Yeah. I flee the place. Yeah. I've gone. I've waited four hours for him to come home. I'm gone 30 seconds. Now, now my mind's racing.

Yeah. Now my reputation is going to be ruined that I'm trying to rob me on people. Yeah. Yeah. Right. There's only one way. to fix that. Kill the money who set me up.

Yeah. So somebody run them over, chopped them across his arm, chopped them across his neck, and left him for dead. Yeah. This is the banker who's at you.

This is the guy who told me that. Who did that to him? Remains a mystery to this day. Nobody would know. Yeah, right, rise? Remains a mystery to this day. I would say, in my professional opinion, pure coincidence

that this guy was left for dead. So he's left for dead. Yeah, yeah. I get a message that he's been left for dead. Yeah, all right? And I go to see Ricky at the hospital. Ricky was our driver. Yeah.

Ricky says no, no, no. I said, Ricky, I wouldn't do that yet. Anyway, a couple of days later, I get a message from Ricky. I used to wear the gold chain. that the gold chain's come off he's got the gold chain and if I don't give him

2,000 pounds which is like 10 grand now if I don't give him 2,000 pounds he's giving the chain to the police I say he's getting no fucking money off me my elder brother at that time was my conciliary

he was my brains and he said you whack him in the fucking face right man you got to compensate of course Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I said, okay. So I'll pay him the £2,000.

Yeah, right. But now my reputation is kind of ruined. Like I'm ruined. Curtis, yeah, yeah, is in Andrew Z. I told you that he was a wrong gun. I told you, because Andrew was the most physical out of all of us. I was the sharpest. I was the cleverest.

We were both physical guys, but Andrew, when it came to Fristikovs, was the best. Right. You understand. Okay. Yeah, right. We never had a fight. I wasn't frightened of him.

Well, I'd acquiesce to that. Right. Yeah, right. He was a bit quicker than me, a bit stronger than me. Yeah. But he wasn't as violence as me. Yeah. But he was always trying to pull him into that crew.

Right. Break up my crew. So he had the one crew. That was always his game. All stripping poison in Andrew Zia. And by the way, just for people that, just to recap, Curtis was a drug dealer who you guys met. We were all, but listen.

We're all from the same area. Right. And then Andrew was your partner. Two of Liverpool's most infamous sons, two of the most well-known sons in Liverpool. One is Stephen French. And one is Curtis Warren. And we both went to the same school.

Okay. It's incredible. Wow. If it wasn't true, you wouldn't believe it. Yeah, he was two years below me. Anyway. So. By the way, was that gentleman?

Was he killed the guy who set you up, the banker? No, no. He didn't die. I got charged with his murder. I got charged with attempted murder against. Okay, but he didn't actually die. Interesting. Let me, let me, no, he lived.

He's still alive. Yeah, right? So this is what happened. Let me finish the story because it's a good story. So my reputation is now ruined. Yeah, I've given the reputation of I'll rob anybody. I'm just a wild dog. And I don't care.

And I've got no morals and I've got no scruples. And you'll rob his own. So. And then Andrew's waving, waving with me, right? So I go to London on a blackmail job, I'm blackmailing somebody in London. I go to London to pick up.

I think it was about, I think it was 10,000 pounds blackmail money I was going to pick up. We've been blackmailing somebody. I went to pick up the money. When I get to Houston, the McDonald's guy, the brush sweeper, they're all coppers,

and they jump on me, and I'm arrested. And I'm in Wainwood Scrubs. This is now, it's now, it's now 1991. Yeah, I'm in Wainwood Scrups. I'm charged with blackmail. Who are you blackmailing? And how, how?

An African chief, that's all I'm prepared to say about that. Okay. Is it pretty deep? Is it wild? It's, it's still alive. And listen, there's a guy sitting in jail now. charged with two packs murder because he said too much

on a podcast you understand right right so so it was an attempted blackmail it's got nothing to do with the story yeah right right I was in jail

okay I was in jail that time in jail yeah right there was no toilets it was called slop house you have to urinate and piss and you have to defecate and urinate in a book here

at 730 in the morning you slop out and you go wash it down down the thing you'll nasty stuff anyway I'm on the fours and we're in with scrubs

there's some lads from County Farm over the side and he says to me have you heard have you listened on the radio have you listened on the radio have you listened on the radio

say no you say somewhere from your end has been murdered I'll go back and I put the radio on and I'm hoping it's one of my enemies and it comes through Karachi champion

andrew John shot dead talk stuff it's my brother I mean I mean two-man's cell with one of the Adamses family. The Adams' family are the top crime family from London. I'm in with one of their nephews.

I said to him, that's my brother. He said, stop messing about Scouts. Stop messing about. I said, I'm telling you, that's my brother. At that time, the door goes. It's the wing governor. It's the Catholic priest and it's the doctor. The wing governor's there because he has to be.

the Catholic priest's day to tell my brother's dead yeah and a doctor's day to give me the liquid kosh like a khtal like that used to give you because I was a handful in prison too

yeah right right so the win governor tells me are you going to behave yourself or are you getting the jab you right now I don't know what if you know about like acto no so they would inject people

against their will was it like barbiturates or something you sit there drooling wow So it's like some one flew over the one floor over the cuckoo's nest shit Exactly wow exactly Now do you know what that is

Is that like barbiturates or what kind of We called it we called it's called like acto Like acto Like actal Like actol Okay It's a drug Yeah

And we called it the liquid cosh Because it was liquid And it's like you're being coshed Wow Yeah right And it was used on violent prisoners Right Yeah

That's insane So Ricky, the guy from the house, has killed Andrew, transpires that Andrew went to him and said to him, what kind of gangster are you? Stephen whacked you with the bat. Instead of dealing with him yourself,

you're telling him, if you don't give me two grand, I'm going to police. Yeah, yeah, I started to pressure, Ricky. Ricky paid him. Yeah, yeah, right. Ricky wrote to me in jail and said, Stephen, we had an arrangement. your brother's now pressure in me

well I fell out with Andrew now because he started listening to Curtis Andrew's asking that he wants to come and see me I don't want to see him when he died all that just dissipated and I was brokenhearted I'd been very quiet in the jail because I knew always getting out of the blackmail

I hadn't been causing no problems just knew that I said wait for the case yet the witnesses wouldn't turn up and I'd be out of I'd be out of Yeah So I cut a sock down And I made a black armband for myself And there'd been a mixed race lad

There and he'd been riding me He'd been riding me and riding me Since I'd been in the jail And he thought Because I hadn't answered him back That I was stupid So when he's seen me And he seen the black armband on me

He said to me What do you do with that for I tried to make fun of me I grabbed him by his both legs And threw him over the landing Oh, yeah, right. There's nets. There's nets on the landing.

He broke his both arms, yeah, right? But he didn't snitch. Yeah, right. That was in, in, in, in Wood's scrubs. What was the point of wearing that black armband? I was in mourning. I was in mourning for my brother. It was a mark of respect.

He was dead. And it'd been on the radio, right? I was locked up in jail. If I'd have been with him, yeah, that wouldn't have happened to. If I'd have been there, yeah, right? he would have had to have blasted two of us or it wouldn't have happened. He lasted,

he worked with me for 10 years. He stopped working with me and he lasted six months and was dead. Yeah. You understand? Yeah, right? And the people that pulled him away from me and chatted shit to him,

right, right? When he died, they didn't even pay to bed of him. I had to come up and by his headstone. The big headstone, your viewers will see it on the TV. Yeah, it cost me $10,000 pounds, the headstone.

Yeah. Anyway, why was he murdered though? He was murdered. This is the point. I'm coming to you. This is the point. So he's gone to Ricky. Yeah.

Yeah. I said to Ricky. I took the money back off Ricky. Now there's a golden rule to tax some people. And the golden rule is if I rob you, Johnny, I'll only rob you once. I'll never rob you twice. Because if I rob you twice, then you're going to think every time this guy's got no money is going to be coming to him. me and doing me something

and Andrew went back to him twice yeah and then Ricky's dad was an old Jamaican called Mr King and Mr. King and said yeah in Jamaica I killed that boy you see

so he did he shot him five times in the back with the Webby now the interesting thing is there was somebody with me when I broke into the house and I put Ricky on the floor yeah right right

It wasn't Andrew. Yeah, it wasn't Mojid. And who it was, I'll take with it to my grave. Yeah, yeah, right? Well, Ricky made a defense that it was me and Andrew.

Yeah, yeah, right, that broke into his house and he had medical records that had his face smashed and they ended up getting three years for manslaughter. Oh, wow. Yeah, and walked out.

He's dead now. That's it. That's crazy. He's dead now. Was he murdered? He died in a fight. All right. So you were heartbroken.

You were changed, it sounds like, after the death of your brother. These were the writings on the wall for me. Yeah. Yeah, these are the writings on the man. I'm coming to it. So I'm just finishing that piece off. So Ricky now does his three years in his house. He's at a party.

He's skating around. He's got to skate around because everybody's looking for them. And he's at a party. And a girlfriend of mine called Sophie's at the party. and he tells her this story yeah right modgieed the banker

come to my house and he's banging on my door this is after he's been chopped and cut I've opened the door and I said what do you want and he goes you did know it was Ricky you did know it was Ricky

I told you I said you didn't tell me it was Ricky you told me it was Sean I'd never rob Ricky Ricky was our driver Ricky got me out of certain instance right I later found out

Ricky was in the bushes with the gun that he killed the kid with the train on me yeah right right and he was there to kill me but everything I was saying married up in his head

I waited four hours for him I put him on the floor I tried to run out I was only there 30 seconds if I was there to rob him and I knew it was Ricky he'd got robbed

yeah he'd got robbed yeah I wouldn't know I would have smashed him until he wasn't moving and he got robbed but I ran out and he lowered the weapon he lowered the weapon

I only found that out retrospectively here's the interesting part you had a Webley a Webby 0.445 revolver the Webby revolver is what the British Army established this empire with

it's the same gun that in the 1960s Battle of the Sun where the British Tom He's have to go over the top boys. It's the same gun that they fire. It's a gun that they use to shoot horses. Yeah, the bullets like that. Holy shit.

Yeah, right. He had no bullets for it. He had no bullets for the gun. Yeah, right. And my enemies, the ones that were trying to get Andrew away from me, gave him the bullets to kill him. Yeah, but he lowered the gun on me. And a few months later, because Andrew went to him,

twice three times. The bullets ended up in Andrew. Yeah, yeah. And that's the, that's the kernel. Wow. Story to a movie that I'm going to have made about my life. It's incredible. That bullet was meant for you.

Yeah, well, I did. Well, I'm still here. Yeah, right? So this is 1991 when you go, you get arrested for blackmail, Andrew gets killed. What happened between 91 and 2005? And you decided to write your book.

Did you get out of the game? I mean, we're in much groups. I go for Judging Chambers bail I was married to a pop star's daughter the real thing Space Girls, no real thing You to me are everything The sweetest song that I can sing

Oh baby I was married to his eldest daughter He put up 100,000 pounds bail for me I get out I see the little cross that they've got on my brother's grave and I sort that out and buy him down my wife was pregnant 94 I have my first daughter

and I'm reading the writing on the wall yeah my future is threefold I'm either going to be murdered I'm going to murder somebody yeah yeah yeah and be life tough or I'm going to be mega rich.

Yeah, right, rise. If I don't make some changes in my life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, crack, crack, it kicked in. Yeah, yeah, right. And now, because how, how, okay, how would he,

how would a 10-stone drug dealer, 10 and a half stone drug dealer, stop fair against the guy like me? Yeah, yeah. I'm 6'4-3, a martial champion. I weigh 225 pounds. And I'm double dangerous. How is it going to stop me?

They had to get an equalizer. Right. And that's what happened. I take part and pause responsible for the explosion of firearms on Mersey's side. Because they had to stop protecting themselves from jackets. And it's an instant equalizer.

Yeah. Yeah. If you ever had a point of gun on yet, the whole bottle looks like that. It just goes big. Wild, yeah. And you just got to keep still. And hope that the person at this range

doesn't plug you. That's all you can do. Yeah, yeah. Never mind all these fancy tricks and I'll do this and they'll do that. It's called, what did they call it? Mexican standoff

when they both got guns. But anyway, so. So to protect these drug dealers from guys like yourself, ironically. They armed themselves. And you started supplying their guns? No, no. Or you just, your lifestyle created the violence that

No, no. No. So, yeah. There's a story in the book called the Red Cavalier, right? And the Red Cavalier, so now I decide that I want to go to work. I don't want to go to work here, right? Now, I'm a security professional, right? I've worked in the security industry a long time.

You're right? So I meet a guy called Christian. We open up a security firm, yeah, Crying Mark. at its height from 1990 that went from 94th and I sold it in 2005 yeah

yeah we had 500 men working for us wow our turnover was 5 million our profit was 20%

I had all the car show rooms in Liverpool I had a lot of the industrial estate I had blue chip clients like Allied London yeah

and I was also known as the gypsy buster. Yeah, right, where I would get gypsies off-sides and they pay me a fortune for them. Wow. And this is a totally legitimate firm. There's no street money being run through it.

Wait, wait, wait. So, so, so now, right, here's the interesting part. So in commercial debt recoveries, yeah, I'm not collecting money of all ladies that haven't paid the rent. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. You've got company A.

You're, you're dealing in computers. Yeah, yeah. your company A, you buy 30,000 pounds where the computers are the computer guy. Yeah, yeah, right? You close that company down. You'll open up another company. You've got all this stock,

but you're not going to pay him. Right. Yeah, right. This is the niche I found for myself and commercial debt recoveries. Yeah, right. Now, have you seen the equalizer? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I notice I always play with a handkerchief. So does he. My name was the problem to solve an extraordinary. actually worked as an equalizer. So how do you recover that debt legally in this kind of white collar rip-off situation?

So this is, I'll give it, for example, I was very moral about what I did, right? And I used to help small businessmen against a big businessman. I used to like to fuck small businessman. Yeah. And I always needed the paperwork, right? Because there's a very thin line,

Jonathan between demand of money with menaces which is illegal and enforce on a legitimate demand I enforced a legitimate demand yeah right now one of the people that I was doing a debt recovery on

a commercial debt recovery on I worked as a recovery technician I even give it its own name recovery technician it's just a fancy name for the debt collector they set the police on to me because they always call it. You've got to be licensed to get the police on your eyes.

And we end up in court and the judge says to me, Mr. French, I know what you're doing. You're using psychological intimidation. Unfortunately for the people that have but he's court, that isn't an offence. So I'm going to have to let you go. Because if I say to you,

Johnny, you owe me 50 grand and if you don't get paid me to 50 grand, I'm going to break both your legs. you can then, and you record me, you can then go to the police and tell the police and do what you want. That's menacing, I think. But if I put a copy in my book on the table, and I say, you should have readed that,

and then pay what you know. Yeah. And then also, also my phenotypical appearance actually look like a gangster, and I know how I do. You understand? And I can muster into, intimidation if I really need to.

Yeah, I can become cold. Detached. Detached. Yeah. And without threatening you. Have you watched them Enter the Dragon? Yeah.

Yeah, right? So, Bruce Lee's on the boat. And he's with the New Zealand guys. And he says, let me teach you the art of fighting without fighting. He says, the art of fighting without fighting. How's that? And he tricks him when he gets him on the boat and he just has to be with the hang up. Well, I had the art of intimidating without intimidating.

Yeah, I could be very intimidating without breaking the law. Right. Yeah, right. And I found a niche for myself. And you were successful, obviously. I worked at 20% and no recovery, no free. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

If you wanted to jump the queue, you could jump the queue. But you had to pay me $500 a day for that. Uh-huh. You paid me expenses for $500. And I had work coming out of my years. Wow. I was in the money part of Liverpool, Water Street, El Palazio. the executive officers,

20 phones going, 30 staff, and I couldn't keep pasted away. Unbelievable. And you're completely legit now. There's no... I stole the street activity? So...

Yes or no? No. You were not completely legit. No, no, no. I am... Listen, listen. It's difficult, right? Because you have to defend yourself.

You understand. Right? So, 2005... I sell a security firm. Yeah, yeah. I sell a security firm. Was it a nice exit?

Yeah, it was. I sold a contract for a quarter of a million quid. All right. Which was a company I built from Noton. And I was working for Java Australia. Yeah, I had, say, about four thousand pounds on, four million pounds on the ledge that was owed to me. Yeah, yeah, right?

about a million pounds worth of crown death which is VAT VAT but my main client was Jarvis rail and they went pop so when they went pop my company became insolvent but my contracts were still alive so to avoid the crown debt

I closed the company down I sold the contracts which was a shrewd business move given to me by my Jewish accountants. Anyway, and this is when

I started looking at an American Green card. By an American green card, going to live in a gated community in America, run the Taco Bells, and it was just after 9-11 and the property in it, sorry, it was early 2000s, and the property

in America, especially in places like Miami and Disney World. I want to go to Orlando. The money, what you could get in America, yeah, yeah, for

$500,000 would land. You get a whole estate, yeah. Yeah, would land. It was incredible because I looked into it all. My family didn't want to go, and then I decided I was going to give

something back. So in 2005, I opened up, the Kazuna increased the peace program. Yeah, and I became a serious anti-gun campaign. And the reason why I became an anti-gun campaigner is my brother, Andrew John, shot dead. My son, Stephen, shot twice in a year. The second time his girlfriend was with him, she was shot as well.

Oh, no. My nephew, Grantley, shot in the head with a nine-milly, lost the use of his left. die. Yeah. I've been shot. I've been stabbed and I've been firebombed. And my story,

yeah, in terms of British-born blacks, isn't unique. That's just, that was our lot. Yeah, yeah.

An endangered species was a black male under 25. I'd go to different cities and I'd walk up to a young blacker and I'd say to him, I'm really sorry to hear about your mate. getting killed.

I'd say, how do you know about my mates? I said, because we've all got one. Mm. Yeah. And I wanted to do something about, it started off about the black on black killing. Yeah, right. Because I've always been a black activist.

Yeah, I've always been politically black. Mm. Yeah. Being born in a racist city. You have to be that way. So I went to work in earnest as an anti-gun campaigner from 2005 to 2008 and I did some sterling work. Yeah, right.

One of the jobs I did, yeah, right, right. There's two crews in Manchester. Yeah, one is called Gooch. The gang's called Gooch. Gooch? Yeah, your viewers can look them up. And the one's called... the hillbillies, yeah, from Cheatham Hill.

Yeah. And in a 20 year period, there's been about 20 deaths, 20 killings. Yeah. Right. So one young man was murdered, shot dead. Yeah, right? And they were burying him.

And the killers turned up at the funeral and killed another one at the funeral. A bit like the scene of Michael K. Williams is the wire when the granny's hat got shot off. Yeah. I've met him. So anyway, Omar, Omar and French, someone's made a song about us.

Anyway, so I had officers in Warrington. I had killers and people do, and a family do a life from Chitima on my left-hand side. Killers, yeah, right, from Gooch and people doing life on my right-hand side. I'm in the middle, yeah. I'm not talking about peace. we can't talk about peace

but I brokered me personally Stephen French brokered that all soldiers can be buried in peace no more shooting at the funerals this is the type of work that I was doing I was working in the deep end

yeah right but at the same time because I was working with the authorities and I was doing what I was doing I got labeled as a police informer I got labeled as a snitch. You're right.

But I've never snitched on anybody. I'm not a police informer. And it's just lots of jealousy and envy. But if my son's coming through. My son's trying to do the same stuff as I was doing. He ends up getting shot. And the young guys that are his enemy. Yeah, right?

They know if they want to do something to Steve they've got to do something to me. So this is for you, this is a receipt for your viewers. If you type into your search engine, Young Gunman, Panorama, BBC program, 2008, you'll see the shots that were fired at me. You'll see when people tried to kill me in 2008.

If you watch Danny Dyer's deadliest men, episode one, season one, that's about me. Yeah, right? And you'll see a young, man standing on the wall from my community. And he says, Stephen French can't come around here anymore. It might have been feared in the day. But Stephen French can't come around here anymore.

Stephen French is a grass. Yeah, right? He's the young man that shot at me. They had the photographs in 2008. Here's the interesting part about that. Because I hate snitches and I hate police informers. When I was 17, somebody tried to kill me for the first. time. Now, if you look at my hands, you see my left hand. You see how my fingers don't come up.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Oh, wow. I tried to stand me in the neck. Fuck. I got my hand up. The blade went straight through my hand and I cut my three sinews. Oh, yeah. So you have no. No, no, no, they won't come up. Right. I've got no, and the soul, they're not there. Yeah, right? Yeah. The police came to see me. Yeah. Yeah. And they said to me, it was a family member. Yeah. The police came to see me. And he said, we know who's done it. You got to do this. You got to do this. You got to do. You got to do. that and you'll get a fortune in criminal compensation. I said I was mugged by skinheads. No, Stephen, I was mugged by skinheads and I didn't snitch. Now, the same young man that's standing on that wall

and said that Stephen French is a grass. When he was 17, he gave evidence in a mayor to trial. He made a statement. He stood in the dock and he pointed a man out from the dock. I've got grasses calling me a grass you understand now

that's kind of how the game is now unfortunately but the beauty of here the beauty of it the beauty of it is you can go to the courthouse and see his papers and see his statements there's no statements with me

it's just it's just foundless groundless accusations so that's why I mean for the American audience they can go look that up I still don't understand though

I'm asking you a question question. While you were running the security company, my father's a lawyer, so I'm getting very lawyer on you. It's okay. Were you out of the game after you went legit and founded this very successful security company, or were you still running illegal money through the business? And if you can't answer, that's okay, but listen, listen, tell us. So, so I had more money than God. You understand? Yeah, I didn't have to do anything illegal. Right. Right. but I had to defend myself. Yeah, right.

Now, my philosophy was this. This is my philosophy. I have the right to defend myself. I'm my family, I'm my business, by any means necessary. And that included murder. You fuck about with me, I'll kill you. You understand.

Yeah, you go too far with me and I'll take your life. And I'm also trying to do this anti-gunn stuff. And it's, it's, it's. It's a tight road walk. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tight road walk between legitimate business, man, ex-gangster, yeah, yeah, an anti-gun campaigner. Yeah.

Yeah. And then I, I pipped, and you've got to remember now, yeah, at 2005, I want to go to live in America. I want to buy a green card. I'm in Paradise Island in the Maldives. And I decide to write the book, do a documentary, make a movie. And the money I get from the movie are build the Andrew John Memorial Skill Center. Andrew John is my brother

that died. The skill center will be will teach our young men a vocational skill so that they can provide for themselves and their families without being involved in drugs, guns, violence or becoming pistoleros. Because the game, as we call it,

turns out to be a Mug's game. It's a game of death. Yeah, and it lands two places in a box in the ground or in a box inside a box in the jail. That's where it leads. It took me a long time to realize that.

Yeah, right? Now, I'm walking this tight rope. Yeah, right? Well, where can they get that book? We're going to switch over to Patreon now and we can talk about how that resulted in you eventually going to prison. What's that?

Yes, please. You give me an email. I'll email you. I'll email you to copy. But where can folks, this has been absolutely riveting. Amazon. Okay.

And the name of the book again is? The devil. Britain's most feared on the world's hacks, man. And that's, don't you have another one as well? That one hasn't come out, yeah. Oh, okay. That one's written, and that's the devil decoded. Yeah, but that's not getting really since I'm my mom dies.

Okay. I'm a man with an agenda. I'm a mom within a mission. That's why I'm doing these podcasts. Now, now, so now, yeah, I've got punk's, I call Punks. Fine.

Okay, let's, let's, we're going to switch over now because it's, we've been, we've been going long. This is the,

this is the second part that I want. This is what people got to pay for. Is this post log story. But I think we got the, the, your journey out of the underworld. I think that's what, that's what I'm hearing is that you,

you were caught up in bullshit that sent you to prison. Am I wrong? It doesn't sound like you were in the streets. You weren't robbing drugs. cruise. No. That's what I was trying to get to the bottom of. Yeah.

You clearly weren't. And the fact that you, I think you are exceptional. You know, you say I'm no different than anybody that grew up on the south end of Liverpool, but maybe your circumstances weren't, but you certainly ended up much different than not a lot of people are talking about buying Taco Bell's franchises in America that are from the South of Liverpool. Buying an American green card. Yeah.

Yeah. So, see, the reason why I didn't buy the American green card. Yeah, right, right. Is my daughter, you know, right, was in with a good group of friends. She was going, she was being privately educated. Yeah, right? She finished, she's not long finished university.

Yeah, right, right? I was still married at that time, yeah. And, and I'm one of the most robust men that you'll have a meet. Yeah, yeah. My, my capacity to cope, you guys, is phenomenal. Even if I say so myself, right? But then what happened was I knew that I would get some flack

for the work that I was doing. But I didn't know that it would leak out to my family. And I went to see Floyd Mayweather versus Ricky Hatt in Las Vegas. And I'd been on the TV now. And this is when I realized the power of TV because in Las Vegas

when that fights was on you've got people from all over the UK London, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds all over I couldn't walk 10 yards without getting stopped and asked for the photograph because I'd been on TV my friend said to me French, you'd like a celebrity and I said no man

and I don't know yeah with that to the most prevalent emotions in humankind are to the most basic envy and jealousy it's followed me everywhere envy and jealousy

yeah and then I've got new crews I'm not even involved my son's involved he's being shot they think they've got to do something to me also yeah right right so when they fire the shots at me Yeah, right?

And they're saying that I can't come around here. There's actually 13 of them on the corner. I'm driving up the road. Instead of just taking aim at me, I'm just popping into the car, and killing me. He's running away. He's running away, firing over the shoulder.

And that's why if you look on the camera, you'll see the trajectory of the bullets are right up in the ceiling and the woman, right, right? Not a very good shot. No, no, they were running. They were running from me. And the points I'm making, yeah, right?

is I don't fear nobody. Still now to this day, yeah. If I've got to die of violent death, I've got to die a violent death. But I believe that I have a destiny to fulfill. And I'm trying to fulfill that destiny. Yeah, right? And this is bringing us up to the current time. So I'm working at that.

We're going to go. We're going to wrap. We're going to wrap. We're going to be over. We're going to switch over now to Patreon. Stephen French, one more time. The Devil, what's the name of your book?

The Devil, Britain's Most Feared on the World Taxman. That was... 2007, it was released. That was an absolute Hall of Fame episode. I'm amazed that I get to meet guys like you. So that was... Are you on social media? Yeah.

Stephen French? Just Stephen French. You type me in and everything comes... It's true. Stephen French, you Liverpool. Okay. And then he get everything. And he's all over YouTube and everything like that.

Everything you get everything you need. Patreon.com slash the Connect show to find out the epilogue to Stephen's story. Thank you, Mr. French. That was unreal.