The Current - “A better tomorrow” Inuit leaders talk future of the North

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

Politicians and industry both in Canada and afar have their sights on the arctic. For the Inuit who have called this place home for centuries, there’s real concern on what the future holds. Natan Obed is the president of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and acting President of Inuit Circumpolar Council Canada and Jeremy Tunraluk is the president of Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated. They speak with Matt Galloway about their dreams for this place and its people and why “the colonial days are over - and it is time for Nunavut to be included.”

A lot of news podcasts give you information, the basic facts of a story. What's different about your world tonight is we actually take you there. Paul Hunter, CBC News, Washington. Margaret Evans, CBC News, Aleppo. Jerusalem. Ottawa. Prince Albert. Susan Ormiston, CBC News in Admiralty Bay, Antarctica.

Correspondents around the world, on the ground, and at the source where news is happening. So don't just know, go. Your world tonight from CBC News. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. This week on the program, we've been bringing you stories from Icaloit. Canada's north has been thrust into the crosshairs of politicians and industry alike.

Issues of Arctic sovereignty and defense are being debated here and abroad. Meanwhile, global industry is salivating at the abundance of resources that this land has to offer, everything from fish to critical minerals. When I was in Akalewit, I sat down with two Inuit leaders in an extraordinary venue. We were sitting in a remarkable place to hear how they see the next stage of this place. Natan Obet is president of Inuit Taparit Kanatami and president of the Inuit Circumpolar Council, Canada. And Jeremy Tunralek is president of Nunavut, Tungavik, Inc. I've asked you this question before, but I want to ask it to you again because we're here.

What is it the people down south? What don't they understand about this place? The vastness of our homeland, Inuit Nunangat, may seem to a southern audience to be one of great wilderness and then little tiny communities, 51 of them dotted amongst this vast wilderness of 40% of Canada. But Inuit don't just live in these communities. Our footprint is really a square kilometers.

of maybe 500 or more in any given year. And that's going to traditional seasonal camps. It's harvesting for marine mammals or for terrestrial animals like caribou or muskawks. So our footprint is just about the entirety of 40% of Canada, even though there are only 70,000 innate and there are 51 communities. So when you look at the map, most Canadians probably just see vast, empty spaces. We have placed names for all of it. We understand all living things within those spaces, and we've been living as cheesy as the sounds in harmony with these spaces for

millennia. So I just see it very different than the way in which I think somebody who has no association with Inuit or Inuit culture would see it. In that context, right now we're talking a lot about this idea of not just Canadian sovereignty, but Arctic sovereignty. So in the context of what you just said, what does that phrase mean to you? What does Arctic sovereignty mean? Well, first and foremost, it is Inuit Land Use and Occupation of that space. So Inuit sovereignty is Canadian Arctic sovereignty. It's simple in my mind.

It's a learned concept in the minds of most Canadians. The acceptance that Inuit are the people that very literally underpin Canadian Arctic sovereignty is still something that I think people look past when they think about this place. Maybe people think that it means military might and military presence, or maybe it just means that the drawing of the map at the time when Canada was founded then means that sovereignty is a Canadian word rather than an Inuit word for the Arctic. And for us, we're trying to re-educate Canadians about the place that Inuit hold within Canada and the constitution of this place is a nation state.

And starting with sovereignty is the perfect place to start. We negotiated and settled modern treaties between 1975 and 2004. In those treaties, we set out the relationship we have with Canada as a nation state and with the jurisdictions in which we live that clearly articulates the primacy of our sovereignty and our underpinning of Arctic sovereignty for Inuit and for Canada. You were nodding as he was saying all of that. You've said before that there is no Arctic sovereignty without,

Inuit security. What does that mean to you? Without Inuit being involved in the industry of Nunavut, without being included, there is no sovereignty. Inuit have always been in the back burner of Canada. And we have this vast amount of land that Inuit own. and the development for the future of Inuit for Nunavut is something that we're really working towards. The colonial days are over. The colonization that happened in the last 100 years is over. It is time to be included in all the sectors of Canada.

Why did you want to take a leadership role in that year? You're new to this leadership role now with NTI. That's a big step. Why did you want to take that leadership role now? During my campaign, I indicated that we all need to work as one. There's the government of Nunavut, the federal government of Canada, ITK, and the rest of the Inuit organizations like Kikita Nih Niu Association, Kiva al-Inu Association, Kittal-Meu Inou Association.

There's a lot of attention. going towards the Arctic in this day and age. And we need to work in tune, in sync with each other, in many different sectors for the development of Inuit to actually happen. If you walk down downtown Montreal, you don't even realize how much development there is in the south. When you're flying across Canada, the vast development that there is in southern Canada really differs here.

People really see Nunavu as a barren land, but there's a lot of critical minerals that are on our lands. And we need to make sure that we're taking, we're the stewards of the land. We need to make sure that we're taking care of the land and the land takes care of us back. What do you think is at stake for renewed people right now in this moment? Well, especially when we think of the aspirations of the Prime Minister and the premiers

talking about nation-building projects and imagining how to get the resources of Canada to global markets. these next months may prove to be turning points for the next generation of what happens within our homeland. How so? Depending upon the listed projects and the investments that the Canadian government makes, we may see major infrastructure projects like the Grays Bay Road and Port project, like the Kivulik Hydrofiber project, which are Inuit-led development projects that will open up either opportunities for Inuit communities or mining sectors for specific companies and governments. Do you see those as part of the nation-building projects that the Prime Minister is talking?

But that's that phrase that gets thrown around right now. Yes, and that is the positive part of this equation. These are projects that Inuit have pushed for for a long time. On the other side are the imaginations of other provinces and territories or the military about what they want to do here in Inuit, New Nagat. And that is what worries me, and that's what keeps me focused on pressuring the federal government and provinces and territories and the military. What are those provincial imaginations that wake you up at night?

Well, I've been thinking a lot about this term veto. And conservative governments for a long time have used the term veto as a boogeyman for the government of Canada not to sign on to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. After 2015, in the change of government, the government of Canada did sign on to undrip. but this term veto still remains and I still get asked this question I want to revisit that term actually that term doesn't even exist within undrip it is as I said a boogeyman

but right now we see provinces like British Columbia and Quebec exercising a veto over quote unquote nation building projects to get resources to tide water or to markets So if those jurisdictions are saying no to prairie provinces who have oil and gas or energy projects that cannot traverse through those provincial borders, then where are they going to look? And they may look to places like Port of Churchill to imagine that there are shipping corridors that are unexplored that go through Inuit Nunangat and our waters and adjacent waters. And if those types of things start happening, and if governments imagine that we are this frontier that is unregulated, that they can just exploit, then there could be real challenges with unity when it comes to the north to south. You've spoken extensively with the prime minister.

You've said that we want to be able to meet in the middle to build a better Canada. What do you make of Mark Carney's vision for this country? He came here before the election. This was one of the three stops that he made. He has also met with you since the election. What do you make of what Mark Carney and how Mark Carney is pitching that idea of building a new Canada? We had a very successful Inmate Crown Partnership Committee meeting in Inuvik last month. Mark Carney came along with eight ministers within his cabinet.

And they were unequivocal about respecting Inuit land claim processes in the way in which major projects were developed. Do you think that that's possible? Can you do, this is the big question is can you do both of those things? Can you move like lightning to build the projects that people are talking about with the consultation and with the involvement and the agreement of communities across the country that have, as you've laid out, I mean, vested interest in those lands where the projects are going to be? It's absolutely possible, but up until now, Canada is a nation-state that has not wanted to invest the amount of money and time and resources needed to treat Inuit equitably and to treat our interests with respect. So I would say that that challenge still holds. And whether it's Mark Carney, his cabinet, or any other well-meaning politician in this country,

they're running into 150 years of disrespect for our people, our self-determination in our lands. And so it will be hard. But I remain optimistic. But as always, just honest about the challenges that are ahead and how we meet them. Do you share that optimism, Jeremy? Oh, absolutely. I absolutely share that optimism to, with the ICNNNY Crown Partnership meeting last month, Natanz just spoke about, the relationship that we have with the federal government,

it is phenomenal to see that we're actually very closely working with Prime Minister Carney. When the pressure is there, the pressure is right back at the federal government to make sure that they're actually really closely working. working with Inuit to make sure that development happens. At the same time, we need to make sure that Inuit are being involved. That's including in contracts, that's including employment. We have, in the Nunavut Agreement, we have the Article 23, where Inuit are, it's necessary for Southern companies,

or governments to employ Inuit. I'm Nala Ayyed, host of ideas, and I'm beyond proud to let you know that ideas will soon be turning 60 years old. Not the podcast, of course, but Ideas, the Program and our Deep Roots at CBC Radio. So to celebrate a little early, we're spotlighting some of the most brilliant thinkers of our time by revisiting your favorite Massey speakers. So join me this summer on Ideas and help celebrate our 60th birthday. We talk about being a northern nation, but to many people down south, the north is out of sight and out of mind in some ways.

They've not been here, they don't understand the place and the culture because they haven't been here. But if we're going to talk about Arctic sovereignty, is now the opportunity and the expectation would be to address some of those issues? Yeah, well, what we've said at ITK, is we want to bring Inuit Nunangat into Canada. What does that mean? It means that Canadians see our homeland as a frontier,

the same way that they may have seen Western Canada as a frontier in the mid-1800s, when there weren't roads or railways or trading connections between Ottawa and Toronto and Montreal and Western Canada. But what happened? Canada built infrastructure It thought big and it invested and it imagined that the country was bigger and the opportunities for all were bigger than just in the eastern part of this country.

Now we're faced with a scenario where the Arctic becomes at the forefront of people's minds for security and sovereignty and defense and military. and it also becomes an area where people think of mines and minerals and possible exploitation. But Canada as a whole hasn't thought of the equity question for what it means for the people who live here, the Inuit. There's only one instance in Canada's history where the Canadian government has pledged to lower a socioeconomic challenge to the Canadian rate. or better. And that's in 2018 when the Canadian government, along with Inuit, pledged to try to eradicate tuberculosis by 2030. Almost immediately, the minister responsible at the time, Dr. Jane Philpott, was shuffled out of that cabinet role and then subsequently was out of government. Since then, we've not seen the federal government do anything that

what they would need to do to fulfill their pledge. And that's, I think, emblematic of not only the earnestness that we come to the table with as when we negotiate and we announce something with the federal government, we actually believe that we're going to do it. and then also the tired games that sometimes the federal government and the bureaucracy play to then tell you every single day from 2018 to now why something can't happen why not this budget next budget why we'll have to make do with 10% of the ask and the need rather than 90 to 100%.

At the same time, we have a prime minister who's talking about doing things that haven't been done since Second World War. And you believe him? Well, it certainly seems like he is dedicated to a task and will do anything he can to achieve it. When it comes to the implementation of the commitment by the government of Canada

to eradicate TB by 2030, we just haven't seen that earnestness on the government side to actually implement it. The same thing with our modern treaties. Unfortunately, Inuit Nunningat treaty organizations have had to take the federal government to court at numerous times for the lack of implementation of our constitutionally protected modern agreements. We haven't lost any one of those court cases yet. Mostly they're settled out of court. But again and again, we run into a way of doing business that basically uses the political and the bureaucratic force of the government of Canada

to actively push back against the very things that the government pledges and wishes that it does for us and with us. That's what we need to break. And that's my hope for Mark Carney and his leave. leadership in his cabinet is that somehow they can break through in this moment where there are billions of dollars that have been earmarked for Inuit Nunangat. How do we make them work in the way that we've all said that we want them to work? What would you say to young people who have heard those promises that the town Obed was talking about? And they're discouraged and they're despondent And they wonder whether this, this is their home.

This is where they want to be, but they wonder whether they can stay here to be who they want to be or whether they will have to, as so many other people have had to flee. I would say that we need to stand our ground to make sure that we're actually taking care of each other for a better future, for a better future in education, for a better future in the employment world. for a better future to withhold our cultural,

to make sure that we're, traditionally, we are taking care of ourselves. Culturally, we take care of each other. Culturally, we are, honestly, the stewards of the land, and we make sure we move forward, and in trying to improve our daily lives as Inri to have a better future, to have a better tomorrow. Let me just ask you finally.

There's a big conversation that's happening in this country right now, but what it means to be Canadian. And part of that is because of who's leading the country down south, but also just it feels like something is happening. What does that mean to you? Inri actually chose to be Canadian. during the negotiations in the 70s in between the 70s and 2004 there was a saying that came out

in we chose to be Canadians Canada just so it happened we're here in Canada and we are proud of that we are proud to be Canadians as you see across the globe, all the crises that are happening now across the globe, we are in the forefront of Canadians and actually being involved in having a say, having a say what our future holds. So we are proud to be Canadians.

What does that phrase mean to you? The patriotism that we're seeing right now, it seems as though we've been provoked and if you're a family and somebody comes after your family member it seems like that is the collective reaction that we may be having as a country to stand our ground and feeling as though we are a part of a society in a culture that has a common bond and for the majority of my travels I'm warmly welcomed people from all over this country have talked about in glowing terms about the Arctic and about any experience they may have

had with Inuit or marvel at our Inuit art or even compliment me on hearing an interview that I might have done and all of that to me makes me proud to be Canadian. It also differentiates the world that I imagine in the United States and its relationship with indigenous peoples, with Canada and its relationship. We as Inuit are in conversations about this country on a daily basis. The Prime Minister spends an entire day of his schedule in Inuvik,

in our homeland, co-chairing a meeting with me as national leader. I think these are reasons to be very proud of the relationship that Inuit have with the nation state that is abnormal in a positive way to other indigenous peoples and other nation states. So it reinforces my willingness to be proud of my nationality from that sense without in any way, shape, or form diminishing my pride. in being Inuk and being from Nunatiavud and being the democratically elected national leader for Canadian Inuit. We're in an interesting time, and I also know how quickly public opinion can change. And even with our own society, there is an alienation within Inuit society about governance. and about government and about the place that Inuit hold within this country.

We have a median age of 23. We have a young population who have grown up with real challenge in many cases. And so I think it's also, it makes me beholden to understand who we're fighting for and the ideals that we need to live. And that is to give opportunity for people, to fight for people. people who don't have the ability to fight for themselves to make a better place for Canadians. And in our case, we're working for self-determination for Inuit so that we can thrive and prosper as Inuit and Inuit Nunangat, but also as Canadians in Canada.

So the idea that most Canadians have, which is a zero-sum game of indigenous rights versus Canadian status quo, we just don't see that. We see any empowerment of our self-determination and our self-governance and our place in this country as making Canada more prosperous and better structured to be able to take advantage of any opportunity that comes. I'll end with this. we're very fortunate as we're new to have modern treaties and have a homogeneous foundation on which to engage with the federal government and provinces and territories in this era and this moment of nation building so we have the environmental assessment structures in place we have economic development arms in place we have identified natural resource opportunities and projects that we are willing to champion. We've done our homework. Now, I think, from a federal and a provincial territorial perspective,

what is the reward for that? Or is there any at all? Sometimes in this country, it only matters what one political person, a leader of a party, thinks, and their particular legacy that matters above all else. And for us, we just don't do our politics that way. We build upon previous leaders.

We don't get as hung up on getting all the credit and all the glory for ourselves because that just isn't the way that we see ourselves in our society. It's very hard to get into to talk about how great they are. I challenge you to do it. but from from all of this i would say that we just we have this pride but it is tenuous and we have this ability to be even more proud but that also depends upon a true respect for one another and that's um what i think is possible in this country but um isn't inevitable we have to we have to make

it happen every single day of our work and lives. I'm really glad to have the chance to talk to you both, especially here. I mean, this is just an astonishing place to have a conversation about what we're talking about with the ravens flying around and some seabirds and a few mosquitoes as well, and the waterfalls behind us. Thank you very much for being here. That's great to chat as always, Matt. It's great to chat with you as well.

Thank you. Natan Obed is president of Inuit-Teprit Kanatami, an acting president of the Inuit Circumpolar Council, Canada. Remy Tunralik is president of the Nunavit Tungavik Incorporated. We were speaking in Akhaliwood at Sylvia Grinnell Park. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.