The Current - A custody battle that became a landmark case: Racine v Woods

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

It was a court battle that made headlines. In the early 1980's an Indigenous mother fought to get her child back from the foster family that had looked after her from the time she was an infant. Her birth mother went all the way to Ottawa, to the Supreme Court of Canada, and in a landmark decision, the judge ruled that it was in the best interest of the child to stay with the foster family. It was a decision that would change the life of the little girl at the centre of the battle, Leticia Racine, and impact child welfare cases involving Indigenous children for years to come. We speak with Racine today, about her tumultuous life, and her journey back to her First Nation and her Indigenous culture.

Hey, it's me Gavin Crawford from the podcast, Because News. This week, Matea Roach, host of bookends on CBC and 23-week Jeopardy Champ, joins our panel to answer my questions for absolutely zero dollars. We'll find out what Canadians were busy Googling this week. And I'll quiz the panel on the brand new headache remedy. Tough it out. It's a great replacement for acida, acida, uh, let's just say Tylenol. All that and more on the news quiz. Get the Because News podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

And in a couple of places, you don't. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. In 1982, a fight for an indigenous girl made headlines. In Manitoba, a bitter custody battle is underway over a five-year-old Indian girl. We're talking about our little daughter, who is five and a half years old. We have been her only mother and father for her lifetime. Sandra Racine was fighting to keep the foster child she had raised since the girl was an infant,

but the girl's birth mother wanted her back. Indian groups are taking special interest in the case. They feel it challenges the way children's aid societies place native children. Because I know she's my child and I love her. She's mine. She's Indian and I'm proud of her and I miss her. I love her very much. Her indigenous mother, Linda Woods, would fight all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada to stop the adoption, and in 1983, a landmark decision ruled that it was in the best interest of the child to stay with her foster family. That Supreme Court ruling would change the trajectory of not just this little girl's life, but the lives of countless other indigenous kids caught up in child welfare cases.

Now, a new CBC podcast tells the story of Letitia Racine, the girl at the center of that case. It's part of a series called See You in Court about landmark cases that shaped how Canadians live today. Letitia Racine joins us from our studio in Prince George, British Columbia. And with me in Toronto is Donna Dingwall, CBC journalist who teamed up with Letitia to tell this story. Good morning to you both. Good morning. Letitia, when you listen to that audio from all those years ago, you're at the center of that story. This is about little you.

What goes through your mind? it was a different time and you know even with my mother using the word Indian right like it's just it was a different time and I was unaware of what was happening but being able to to listen to it that's one of the first times I've been able to listen to it and it makes me think about what each of them were going through because I know them both today and I have relationships with them today and hearing their voice and hearing what they had to share and what they were going through at the time. It makes me feel for them, right, that they were both coming from a place of love. This is a fight over you and who would raise you, who would have you in their homes.

When you were six and growing up with your adopted family, what did you know about why you were living with them? It was explained to me that my biological mother was having struggles and that she was going through a really, really hard time, and she wasn't able to take care of me and her other kids and that I had come to live with the racines and that they loved me and that this was my home and that they were my family,

and I didn't know anything other than that. Did it feel like your home and your family? For the first part of my life, it absolutely did. I didn't see any difference. I didn't see, you know, when you're that age, you don't see skin color. You don't see, you know, you're just, you just are. And I knew and I felt looking back, I knew I was loved. And they put a lot of effort and love into our home at that time that I didn't.

know that I was different. I mean, there were conversations, right? But they were small and it didn't really sink in the gravity of the situation. What do you mean there were conversations and they were small? I mean, what do you remember about that? Well, when my, because they had to prepare me, you know, if, if Linda did get me back, I would potentially, there was a potential there possibility that I would leave them. And so they had to prepare me for that. And so I, I, I, I remember her, my mom specifically, she had this album of pictures that we would go through. I'd sit beside her and she would go through this album of pictures and she'd explain it to me through pictures. And I still have those images in my mind about how, you know, Linda was going through a really difficult time.

But that I came to live with the racines and that they were my family. They'd love me very much. but that Linda wanted to have me back but they were my family and they didn't want to lose me and so they were going to fight for me I'm not sure if a fight was the word was the word but they were going to do everything that they could to keep me and as you said at that time I mean you heard those conversations

but they didn't really sink in yeah yeah but I do remember having those conversations and it wasn't until near the ends of each court case, those conversations became very serious because they didn't know what the ruling would be. And so those are the conversations I remember as well, you know, that I might have to go back to live with Linda. And I just remember being so fearful and scared and sad at that, of losing my family, of losing my mom and dad. Her and Alan were the only family that I knew. And so that thought and that possibility scared me.

But at the same time, they had to prepare me for that. And then I remember the feeling of celebration that they were able to keep me. I just remember being happy that I wasn't leaving them. I want to come back to that in a moment because, I mean, a lot of this podcast is about how that plays out in many ways. You grew up, Donna, in the same community as Letitia, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, her foster family, adoptive family, Sandra Racine, was from the same town, Delorraine, Manitoba. Her dad, Alan, grew up in a Métis community in the Turtle Mountains, just sort of outside of town.

I'm a few years older than her. So, you know, we didn't really have a lot of, I would say, direct contact, but, you know, went to the same schools. You know, we went to the same church, United Church, you know, sitting in the basement on the carpeted floor, cross-legged, you know, playing games. that kind of thing. Why did you want to get in touch with her to try to tell this story? I mean, I would say I must have had some memory of this case as a kid. And of course, it's a small town. People kind of know each other's business all the time. So, and it would have been in the newspaper. But I didn't really think about it until, you know, I was in my 20s and I was working kind of in my first job in journalism in Winnipeg. And I came in and I

opened up the newspaper. And there was a story that was kind of splashed across the pages. that was getting a lot of attention about an armed robbery that had taken place. And it was unusual because the RCMP had released the pictures of the two minors who were wanted, which isn't a normal thing because they were minors. But underneath one of the photos was the name Letitia Christine Racine. And that twigged my memory of this child who had grown up in the same town as me. And kind of this sort of hazy recollection that there had been something about, her and the court system and her family.

So at some point down the line, I did look that case up and realized how significant it was. Over the years, I did kind of make these attempts to reach out to her but never heard anything back. And then at the end of 2023, when I kind of did that Google search again and saw that she was working in Prince George with residential school survivors and kind of wrote that like awkward email of like, hey, probably don't remember me, but I remember you and I'm a journalist and, you know, just waited to see if she would write back and, and she did. Lettisha, you were talking about how in the background, and we'll get to the court case in a moment,

but in the background when you were growing up, there were these sort of conversations about the possibility that you would be going back to live with your birth mother. At one point, your birth mother went to try to abduct you. Is that right? Yes. What happened there? So the story that I was told, her and my aunties had come out to Turtle Mountain to take me back home. And I wasn't there.

I actually had chicken pox at the time. And I was in Delorraine with Sanders' mom, my grandmother. And my uncles and my dad, I remember them always talking about that story. and how they came with their guns and their weapons and, you know, because they didn't know what they were going to meet, but they showed up at the yard and there was a bit of a, you know, a standoff there and they told them to leave and it was kind of a big deal because it, you know, that story lasted for years.

At one point you go back to the Long Plain Reserve and you visit with your birth mother. What did you learn about what they were thinking that maybe you didn't know before? In terms of why, to your point, they wanted to bring you back, they wanted to bring you home. What did you learn about that?

So when Sandra had put me back in care when I was 13 years old, because I started acting out, I was always called crazy, and I was very angry. And my behavior, you know, showed that. And so when Sandra couldn't handle me, if you will, anymore, I was put back in care. And that was when I had put my focus on trying to find my family, my biological family, because I had no connection with her.

I didn't know. I knew that she was from a long plane. I knew that my brother's name was Jason Woods. And so when I went to, I was in foster care in Brandon, I sought him out. And I asked every Indian or indigenous person that I've seen, do you know Jason Woods? And eventually I met somebody that did. And they're like, yeah, he lives on my reserve. And so I was like, oh, wow.

And so right away, I think it was like the next day we hitched hide from Brandon to Swan Lake Reserve. And I met my brother Jason. And I just felt so loved and happy. It was what I always wanted, and I was hoping that my life would be better, that I would be back with my real mom, and that, you know, after being basically abandoned and kicked out of the Racine family, you know, like I really was, it really propelled me to seek it out even more, my real family. And so I eventually, Jason took me back to Long Plain and I met my mom and it was just a happy occasion. And I met all my aunties and my cousins and I was so overwhelmed because there was hundreds of them it felt like. And so I met my dad for the first time and it was just like it was a very poignant time for me and meeting my cuckums and all my aunties and my uncles. And, yeah, it was a good time, you know, it was a beautiful time.

My mom took me to pipe ceremony, you know, and so welcomed me back in a spiritual way. And, yeah, and not much was talked about, though, like, about the case, about, you know, what really went on. Okay, here's a few movies. Guess who is the common thread between them? Lost in Translation, Ghost World, The Prestige, and, like, a movie. million Marvel movies. I'm talking about Scarlett Johansson, the highest grossing actor of all time. Scarlett's directorial debut, Eleanor the Great, came to this year's Toronto International Film Festival, and I talked to her all about loneliness, forgiveness, and compassion, all themes

in her new film. Find our chat on Q with Tom Power, wherever you get your podcasts, including on YouTube. The case was, I mean, and I said this, this is, your name is known well beyond your community because of the case that went right to the Supreme Court of Canada. And this was a landmark case. I mean, we use that word a lot, but it was a landmark case. Have a listen to some of what Linda Woods remembers, but what it was like, because they're fighting over you and fighting over custody for you. This is what it's like to be fighting for your custody in the Supreme Court of Canada.

Have a listen. They're looking down me and I said, those are judges up there. You know, and I'm here, I'm a little Indian woman trying to fight for child, you know, and they're not listening to me. God gave you this child, you know. I made mistakes, but still, I love my child, I love my baby. Do you understand Letitia what she was up against? I do.

It makes me emotional to hear the hurt, you know, in my mom's heart and her experience. Because when I was sitting with her, I was sitting with her, when she was. She explained that. And I remember getting emotional. I'm even getting emotional now thinking about it. But, you know, what she was up against back in the 70s and the 80s, a system that was designed against her. And let's just be real here.

It was racist. And for her to be standing up alone. And I know she wasn't. technically alone but I know she felt alone you know standing up against these the system you know and the men that are representing that system the

and with all our history with her being a residential school survivor and all the things that she experienced and all the things that our people experienced that our ancestors experienced you know her standing up in front of that system out of love and it's still not feeling like it was enough

it wasn't enough at that time but she still did it and she was fearless and she was strong and despite the fact that she had been through so much in her life and didn't feel supported you know by

the country, by the system, she still was able to do that. And, you know, that's the power of love, right? And the power that her belief and the ancestors gave her. And I have the utmost respect and love for her for doing that. And I'm so grateful. I'm grateful for my mother. Donna, the Supreme Court of Canada, as I said, ruled that it was in the best interest of the child to stay with her foster family.

The ruling is from Justice Bertha Wilson. In my view, when the test to be met is the best interests of the child, the significance of cultural background and heritage opposed to bonding abates over time. The closer the bond that develops with the prospective adoptive parents, the less important the racial element becomes. What do we know about the reasoning behind that? Yeah, I mean, I think to kind of understand how the court landed there, you kind of have to look at the trajectory of the case through the courts. So, you know, initially the kind of issue that was to be decided in the first court case was did Linda abandon Letitia? Because, you know, the racines were asking for what's called the de facto adoption. And if they could prove that they'd been looking after her for a certain period of time, the court. could grant that whether or not Linda agreed. And in the end, the judge did grant the adoption. But as part of that, she did hear from different experts. And kind of the importance of that expert testimony changes as it goes through the court system. So when it gets to the appeal court,

they actually overturn the decision. And they don't, though, send Letitia home to Linda, which is unusual because generally that's what would happen. But they make her word of the court and they leave her with the racines. And part of the reason that they do that is because, you know, based on expert testimony, you know, they knew that it would be very harmful, potentially damaging to her to be taken away from a family that she'd live with for seven years and given back to a mother that really she didn't yet have any relationship with. So there was a recognition of that, but also, you know, within that testimony, this idea of what was in the best interest of the child was emerging. And what you quoted actually

comes really straight from one of the experts who testified on behalf of the Racines, who sort of said that removing Letitia would be tantamount to abuse. And he kind of posited this idea that over time, a bond with a family that might not be related to you can become more important than your ties to your biological family. What do you think the legacy of that is and the precedent that that sets when it comes to child welfare cases, specifically with indigenous kids? I mean, the fact that that that is what the Supreme Court ended leaning into, kind of enshrined that idea that bonding takes precedence over culture. And then that becomes, you know, something that courts rely on to make more decisions about more children. And it didn't just apply to, like, we talk about

this case as an indigenous child welfare case. It actually applied to other children, but because indigenous children continue to be overrepresented in the child welfare system, it disproportionately then impacts them. And, you know, that decision is not just used in Canadian courts. It's been cited, you know, thousands of times in Canadian courts, but also in Australia, United States, the UK. You know, this is a really well-known decision. This was considered progressive in some ways because they were looking at what they call the transracial adoption and it kind of redefined how the courts looked at families and that families weren't necessarily just about biology that you could form a bond with someone else and if you think in today's context around like queer families or, you know, grandparents raising children. And so, you know, there was this sense that weirdly it was also a liberal ruling and this idea of putting the best interests of a child at the heart of it, absolutely. And people will say that that's the right thing to do. But it sort of falls down when it comes to the best interests of indigenous children.

You know, when I talk to different child welfare experts, people like Cindy Blackstock, you know, they're very familiar with this ruling. And it really, it's kind of this idea that without the pushback to that ruling, maybe we don't then have something like Bill C-92, you know, the act respecting. indigenous First Nation and Méti families, which gives indigenous communities jurisdiction over child welfare. And that act uses the language of what is in the best interest of indigenous children, which is almost like an answer to Racine and Woods. And it talks about cultural continuity and the importance of leaving children in their communities. So again, you know, this is also about answering to, as Letitia talked about, you know, the 60 Scoop residential schools. you know, it is a long, a long history.

Letitia, what was the impact of this decision on your life? You end up remaining with your adoptive family. How does that impact your life? Well, once I started realizing that I was different, I realized that all I really wanted was connection and the answer to who am I. And I couldn't get it with the racines. albeit I was loved.

I knew I was loved, but there was still, you know, dysfunction and, you know, alcoholism and even the effects of residential school within the Racine family. Do you ever wonder how your life would have been different, had the judge ruled differently? Absolutely, you know, and after talking with Linda, you know, she let me know that she would have, you know, if she wasn't able to care for me, that I would have, you know, gone to my auntie or gone to my mushroom. And I remember connecting with my mushroom, my grandfather, Don Daniels. And he remembers, you know, he's like, we wanted to adopt you. We wanted to take you. All my aunties from that family, they were like, you would have been so loved. You would have been so spoiled. I've often wondered

about how my life would have been different, how, you know, being connected and being raised with knowing who I am. Maybe I wouldn't have had to go through addiction and alcoholism and jails and institutions and being close to death. But by the grace of God, I've made it. I made it through all of that. And now my purpose here is to serve and to show others how to make it out and to connect with the other 60 scoop survivors, the returning warriors, I call them, because we all chose this life, every single one of us. They chose to be disconnected, you know, and to come back and to be that bridge between the two cultures. Because we know, I know how white people or non-indigenous people, I've lived them, I was raised that way. And I'm not scared. I'm not fearful. I'm

not intimidated walking into a room of non-indigenous people, you know, and now that I'm connected with my culture through ceremony and tradition, I'm welcome back. I'm back in the circle. You know, I know both of these cultures intimately. What sort of relationship do you have with Linda Woods, your birth mother, and with Sandra Razine right now? They're respectful and loving, and I've come to realize and learn and understand that they were both coming from a place of love. Did it take you a while to get there? It really did.

I had to forgive things, you know, that some people are not necessarily even sorry for, right? And I've had to, in my own healing, I've come to understand why people do things the way that they do and not to judge them, that everything happens for a reason. you know, and despite what I went through, and I'm not sure if I would change it today because it made me who I am today, right? And I can connect with other 60 scoop survivors, and I know their struggle.

I know how hard it is to come back. You know, we all go through struggles and we all have our things that we have to go through that put us into our purpose, you know. But my relationship with Linda is, good, it's healthy. We're working on it and it'll continue to take time to heal. I'm still connected with Sandra. You know, she's my mom. That relationship to is continually healing and evolving. And, you know, as long as I come from a place of love, you know, it's, it all works out. I no longer

have any anger towards either of them, you know, because I've done my own healing. I'm glad you made it through it. You've been through a lot. And it's, it's, it's, a remarkable story that, as I said, your name is known well beyond your own community and what you've achieved. But I'm really glad that you made it through this. Letitia, thank you very much for talking to us. You're welcome. Thank you. And Donna, thank you. Welcome. Thanks. Letitia Racine is a 60 scoop survivor. She was in Prince George, British Columbia, and her story is featured in a new CBC podcast series called See You in Court about cases that changed Canada. Donna Dingwall is a CBC journalist who

produced the episodes about Letitia's story. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.