The Current - America Votes: Stories from the Arizona border, its politics and its people

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

In the dead of night, charity workers head into the Arizona desert, with food and water for migrants trying to cross into the U.S. Not far away, a rancher says the people he sees constantly crossing his land are criminals. And an undocumented family shares what life is like for them, from running a small business to getting their kids into college, without immigration status. Matt Galloway travels to Arizona to meet these people and other voters, and learn why the border has become a flashpoint in this swing state — one that could decide who wins the looming U.S. election.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. It's 4 a.m. The meeting spot is an abandoned restaurant called the Cow Palace. It's on the outskirts of a spot is an abandoned restaurant called the Cow Palace. It's on the outskirts of a small town called Amado, south of Tucson. Volunteers are loading up trucks with huge jugs of water, food, medical supplies, even shoes and socks and stuff for kids.

That's my bag. I brought paper and pens for the kids to draw. Oh, good. They're headed south to the border, taking things that people who've had a long journey might welcome. I'm Randy. Hi, how are you? Matt. Matt, how are you? Hello.

Randy Mayer is a pastor at a local church, and he runs the humanitarian group Green Valley Swarita Samaritans. All right, we're ready to roll. Let's go. We probably won't stop in Aravaca. We pack into a couple of 4x4 trucks and hit the road. You got enough room back there? We're heading first to Aravaca, a one-road town with not much more than a grocery store, a bar, and a gas station.

From there, we're going to go, I think it's about 8 miles, down a pretty rugged road. It's kind of a back way to the border. We're going to that particular spot in the border because that's where the wall ends. And there's about a 15-kilometer gap before the next section. He's referring to Mexican drug cartels, the organized crime units that are bringing people to the U.S. border for a fee. Every morning, volunteers from this group make the almost two-hour trip to meet people seeking asylum. They go early so they can offer help before the border patrol arrives to pick

them up. You were joking. You said it was going to get worse. This is the worst part of this whole road is this last little section. Their camp is just a couple of tents. There's people there. See them? Yeah. And even in the darkness, you can't miss the sudden end of the giant border wall looming above them. We got a fire. Nice. A group of people is huddled around the fire.

Hello. Hello. This is the Arizona desert, but it's cold. They have jackets pulled tight, toques. One man has a pink towel slung around his neck. These are the people that want to get picked up by the border police so they can claim asylum in the United States. There are others, dark figures on the mountains on the other side of the wall.

Randy calls them travelers. These are the people who are watching and waiting for their chance to get through and not be seen. We have food and coffee and does somebody speak English? A man from Rwanda steps forward. When did you guys cross? About 11. 11 o'clock. It's been cold out here? He's been traveling alone for three weeks to get here. He doesn't want to get into the details of what that trip entailed. He says it's too difficult. Hoi Bo, that's probably the only word I can use. Yeah, a very difficult experience. Why did you come?

There are issues back in our country. So I was part of the youths which were forced to join the Mibitabi. That's why I decided to leave. How do you feel that you're here? I mean, you're here in the United States now. How does that feel? I spent the night over here, so I don't know what to feel. So far, I feel safe.

And you'll go on from here somewhere else? I hope so. How old are you? I'm 29. 29? Yeah. Would you ever have imagined that you would have to do something like this? No, never in my life. No, no.

Like it's a big thing to leave home and come to... It is, it is. You leave your loved ones. You don't know when you're going to see them. He doesn't want to give us his name. He's worried about repercussions here and back at home. Where are you from? Egypt. Wow, welcome. This morning there are people from Mexico, Egypt, Turkey, India and Cameroon. Coffee or chocolate? Chocolate. Margaret Coffran is one of the volunteers. She's 23 and about to head off to Italy to start working with migrants there. This work has become in some ways her life's work. How do you look at people and turn them away and not want

to support them? Most of the days out here, it's families. It's husbands and wives and their children. I don't want to be fearful towards people I don't know, you know, and I think they have gifts to bring to our country and we have gifts to share with them. And America's definition for existence is diversity. And now we're shunning that part of us away and that just seems against what we stand for at a core. What do you think people don't understand who aren't here?

What don't they understand about what you see? Because what you're saying is very different than the very, very like touch it and you'll burn your hand hot kind of rhetoric that's around now in this election. But it's been around for a long time. So what don't people see that you see? And I don't think they see the person and what, you know, what struggles and hardships have they gone through? Because we all have our own individual stories. And so we're hearing like, oh, like a mass invasion or like these huge numbers of people are coming, but we're not getting down to the core of why are they coming? Who are they as people?

So I think that's what's really missing, the humanity narrative about immigration. There are creative ways we can address this issue instead of just saying, like, no more, we're going to completely close the border. And that's a silly statement as well, because when you look out here, there's no way to physically close off our whole border

unless you want to spend another couple billion dollars doing it, blowing through mountains. Because this is expensive. When you go home, what do you do with what you've seen? Well, there is a level of you just get used to it to some extent. But, I mean, I'm excited for them. I hope that most of them, you know, are able to have their credible fear interviews and if they pass to continue the asylum process. And there's so much hope and excitement in their eyes, like they finally are standing on U.S. soil. Like that's

a big, this is a big day for them, even when they're cold when we first meet them. So there's a lot of duality in my emotions. Worry for what the future holds for them and most likely getting deported, but also there's potential, there's a chance, there's hope. Who are you talking to? My mom. Where are they? Egypt.

They're in Egypt. In Egypt, wow. My sister and my mom. Some of that joy that she's talking about is happening over by the tents. The Samaritans have set up a satellite internet hub, and the new arrivals are FaceTiming their families. In America, in America. We're going to make bean burritos.

This is mom with the kids, so I'm just going to bring her some stuff. Margaret takes hot chocolate and some food to a woman by the fire. She's sitting on a milk crate with her daughter, warm in a fuzzy coat sprawled out in her lap, and the young girl is fast asleep. There's a backpack in the shape of a teddy bear beside them, and the mom's eyes peek out over her black face mask. Her name is America. So they've been traveling for a week, so they came up from Guanajuato, which is, you know, north of

Mexico City, by bus to get up here. Why did she come up? Why has she decided to come up? Her spouse is here, but she's also fleeing the violence and the delinquency. There's a lot of gang and cartel activity there. Standing next to her is a woman from the same region as America. They didn't know each other before, but have been traveling together for a few days.

Eva is 17. For her it was very dangerous traveling alone. A lot of people she just couldn't trust that had bad intentions. Why did she have to leave? There were some family issues that made it very unsafe for her, and then just the community, it was not a safe place for her. There were lots of threats. I think it was a Colombian gang that was just making it really hard.

It sounds like maybe one of her brothers was killed. And so she just had so much fear that she wants to finally live where she can be free and not have to be so full of fear. Where are y'all from? I am from Turkey. Turkey, wonderful. I am a nurse.

When did you leave your home and start your journey here? Three months. Seven countries. Kuwait. Kuwait. Ethiopia. Ethiopia. Brazil.

Dominique. Volunteers walk through the group, chatting and giving advice about what to do when Border Patrol does arrive. If the Border Patrol wants to put something on your ankle, a bracelet. It's a GPS bracelet. You say yes. Yes, because that is a way for you to get in. A set of headlights appears in the distance. It's a white Border Patrol pickup truck driving on the road next to the border wall,

and there are two agents inside. Hello. How are you doing? Martinez. Oh, we like Martinez. Agent Martinez is all business. Give me a line. You're a single adult on one side and families on another.

He's fine. Habla español? Okay. Viene solo? Sí. He lines everyone up to get a head count. Just going to get a good count so you're not moving around. Thirty-three people are here today.

You know what? How many females we have? He pulls aside America. She's still carrying her four-year-old, who's now awake, and she's clutching a handful of grapes in one hand and an apple juice pouch in the other. Ava isn't far behind, carrying the teddy bear backpack for them. They climb into the cab of the truck.

A few of the men are loaded into the back. You guys can sit. You got to sit. Nobody stand up. And then off they go. We're not going far, okay? I got a van that I got to take you to. Randy says he's not sure, in this political climate, what will happen to someone like Ava, a teenager traveling alone.

You know, we're hearing that unaccompanied minors are being deported. So she could have gone through all of that and could just be sent back, went in 24 hours or something. And is that the same for these other folks? I mean, people from Egypt, from Turkey, from Oman, from Rwanda. This is a real frustrating part about all of this is that we can only help them to this point.

Sometimes we get phone numbers and we'll get a call from a detention center and talk to them. And we are able to put some things together. But we know that the U.S. is now doing lots of repatriation flights all over the world. We don't know how long people are in detention or what the criteria for somebody from Turkey or Egypt, what sort of process the government is putting them through. Or is it just they don't care, they're just going to deport? Another Border Patrol truck pulls up. He's not here to take migrants, though.

He's got another job to do. Oh, I'm putting up a sign here that's going to have a phone number for migrants, anyone to call. Agent Mark Garish has been doing this work for about 15 years. He's pretty careful about what he says, but he has definitely seen changes over the years. Well, you guys have seen the news. Yeah, it's been a pretty strange time. He wears a T-shirt and jeans with a gun on his hip. He's positioning the metal sign so that's the first

thing that people will see when they cross the border. Well I don't think this whole immigration issue is going to be solved by just a wall right? There's a wall they'll go over it they'll go under it. Somebody was saying that they just cut the wall too. Yeah they do that quite a bit. There's a woman who had like a four-year-old kid, a 17-year-old girl who was by herself and stuff like that. I mean, when you see these people, what do you think of them? Like, do you have sympathy for them? Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, you put yourself in other people's shoes all the time.

You do? Yeah. Yeah. I think we all do. Most of us have kids, you know? So when you see a four-year-old out here or whatever, I don't think a four-year-old woke up one day and was like, hey, let's go to a different country.

Do you work with the Samaritan folks? Do you have any relationship with them? I have a pretty friendly relationship with them, yeah. What do you make of them and the work they're doing? Well, I believe they're doing the best they can. They're doing what they think is right. How I feel about it is kind of irrelevant. Do you think what they think is right. How I feel about it is kind of relevant, but... Do you think what they're doing is right? Um... I think if people are trying to help

people, that's generally a good thing. But like you said, sometimes it's complicated around here. Not everyone realizes how complicated. They try to make it simpler than it really is. Alright, we'll let you get back to work. Yeah, I appreciate it. Randy Mayer agrees with Mark on one thing.

A wall is not the answer. But he also doesn't think any of the political leaders are offering any solutions in this election. There's not a whole lot of difference between the two parties, actually. They're both saying, hey, we need to secure the border. One has horrible, ugly rhetoric, and the other is a little bit, they're basically saying the same thing.

They want to shut down the border. They, you know, middle America thinks that, you know, that immigration is a bad thing for the United States and they think it's all about criminals. But the reality is all these people are escaping really bad situations. You know, they should be given the opportunity to at least prove that they're being persecuted. They're just looking for a better way of life away from all the fear and violence. You know, the one girl this morning was saying that her brother was killed by the cartel.

It's not like it's not a legitimate threat. It's actually happening. The United States is now sending these people. A lot of these people will be deported tomorrow, and they really have nowhere to go. They'll either be sucked up by the cartel and forced to come out here and do this kind of crap, or they'll be killed.

For the women, it's worse. So, you know, that's what we've resorted to as a country, is we don't really care about the challenges of people, and oftentimes our country has caused those challenges. You really don't think there's much of a difference between the two parties in terms of how they're dealing with this? All I can say is I've been working the border for almost 30 years and every single administration has put more militarization, more agents, and then the next administration just builds on top of that. and then the next administration just builds on top of that.

The rhetoric is the ugly part. Yeah, Trump has ugly rhetoric, but the policies aren't going to be a whole lot different. You know, Biden's policies right now is equal, if not worse, than Trump's. I've been here for five administrations. I just wish they'd try something different than just throw a bunch of money. You sound frustrated. It's very frustrating to see such a beautiful place just absolutely destroyed with a wall. And that it hasn't stopped anybody.

You see all these people. There's a big gap there where they can just walk through. Yeah. So it's just political theater is what it is it's not a solution to anything and it just makes people's lives miserable our policies are really to force people into the most dangerous parts where we can track them or they will die that's disgusting. You know, in the summer it's so hot out here, there's no water.

Just in this area, you've seen the death map. There's just hundreds and hundreds. Just from this site right here, there's a death right over there and there's a death across right out there. These folks that are putting themselves in this situation are literally, they're either going to die where they're at or they're going to die trying. You know, they don't want to be these unaccompanied miters. They're literally being kidnapped by the cartel and forced to do the horrible work of the cartel. So they're fleeing that. They don't want to be that.

What do you get out of this? I mean, why do you do this work? You've done this for a long time. Done it for a long time. You know, when you meet somebody in their deepest time of need and you're able to give them a little bit of hope.

You know, we've been out here, we've literally saved, I mean, absolutely saved thousands of lives. But our lives have been saved. My life has completely changed because of these encounters with the migrants. What do you mean? In the sense that just to hear their story and be able to give them a little bit of hope and compassion has an effect on you in a powerful way that you can never be the same because of hearing that story and having that encounter with an individual.

What has it given you, do you think? You know, I think for me it's softened my heart. It's showed me that, you know, compassion and love are a much more meaningful pathway than to build walls and barriers and make the world all about me. They're good people. Who are you going to vote for? I'm going to vote,

but I'm going to ride whoever wins their ass because they're never going to live up to the standards that God and civil society is calling us towards. You didn't say who you're going to vote for, but that's okay. I'm not going to.

We're going to ride anybody's ass because that's our job. Thank you. Yep, all right. Here they come again. When the truck arrives for the last group, they grab their backpacks and rush over. Four and four, right? God bless. Adios! grab their backpacks, and rush over. Four and four, right? Randy heads to the wall for one last offer of help.

He calls to the people who don't want to be caught. He's offering them food and water too, and a man peeks out from under a tarp in the distance. But he's waving, but I don't think he wants anything. I think he's saying they got everything. It's barely 8 a.m. The volunteers are done their work here for the day. They pack up the tables, stoves, and coffee for the drive back through the desert. And they'll be back again tomorrow to greet another group. Good day. Helped a lot of people. Tomorrow, to greet another group.

Good day. Helped a lot of people. Okay, well don't ditch us. You hear that, Margaret? We're going through Chilton's Gate. It's called Chilton's Gate because a rancher named Jim Chilton leases the land along the border. After the break, we visit his ranch for a very different perspective on what to do about the people crossing here every single day. Those are Jim Chilton's cows. Jim Chilton's enormous ranch and the grazing lands he leases

is the same land where we met asylum seekers. And as you pull up to his house, the first thing you notice, other than the cows, is a pile of tattered fabric on the driveway. People coming across in camouflage and carpet shoes sometimes have their carpet shoes wear out and they abandon them. Not always, but a few do. And what this pile of maybe three, five hundred pair of carpet shoes is, is just a reflection of what's coming through and evidence, evidence of the people coming through. The carpet shoes' purpose is to prevent tracks. The Border Patrol used to consider themselves the finest trackers in the world.

Now they've basically given up because all the people coming through my ranch, marching north, wear carpet shoes. And they're just literally slip-on shoes with carpet on the bottom. Exactly. And they have Velcro on the back. And they're quite well made. The top is camouflage material. And that's enough to prevent leaving tracks in the desert? Yes.

And even if you do see a carpet shoe track, you don't know how many were there because they often step. I have evidence they step in the same spot. Like they walk through, everybody lands on the same spot. Now, before carpet shoes, you have different ones. I have boots on, cowboy boots, not tennies. You have different ones. And the Border Patrol could see the different types of tracks

and get a better idea of how many people were coming through. Jim's land butts up against the border with Mexico, including the part where the wall ends, and that has become a focal point for Jim. The cartel is everywhere. They're on my mountains, on my ranch. We're being watched all the time by foreigners sitting on our mountains. I object to that.

What he's seeing on his ranch has made Jim a bit of a star in Republican circles in recent years. He's spoken at Trump rallies. This year, he gave a speech at the Republican National Convention. So no surprise, immigration and border security are top of mind for him in this election. Your wife has said that, what is it, every time that you leave the ranch house, she has to worry that you're not going to come back alive.

That is a worry for her. And many of our fellow ranchers have left. They've sold their ranches mainly to the federal government. And it's a real worry for her. I'm a tough cowboy. I'm not leaving. We have a family cemetery just to the north of here a couple hundred yards. And so I'm either going to be on

top of the ground or below the ground, but the cartel's not going to push me out. But is the worry, I mean, what's that threat? I mean, have they shot at people? I mean, what's the concern from the cartels? Why would she be so worried? Why would she be so worried? On our ranch two weeks ago, the Border Patrol apprehended a group, and they had loads of cocaine and AK-47. I also, last week, a spot on our ranch about 10 miles to the south. I ran into a group running south, running south, not north, and they didn't have their backpacks. So they were druggers going back to Mexico to get paid. What happens around here is the cartel moves people through in carpet shoes,

camouflage, and similar backpacks. And some of those backpacks have drugs in them. I dislike the idea that people are coming through my ranch to poison our people and take it all the way to Canada. Most importantly, I have five motion-activated cameras on my ranch. Now, that means I have one camera for every 10,000 acres. I have gotten over 3,550 images of people in camouflage and carpet shoes and backpacks since President Biden was elected. I find that really objectionable. that really objectionable. I also have people coming, as you witnessed, around the end of the wall onto the ranch. All they want to do is be apprehended and processed. They don't bother me as much as the idea that people are coming through with weapons.

That wall just stops. I mean, it goes along for miles and miles and miles, and then it just stops, and there's essentially a fence where you can, we climbed up, you could just climb over it. Do you want the wall to be finished? I pray and hope that the wall is finished. I think it is a tremendous asset. You can secure the border. Anybody trying to climb over that wall, 32 foot high, with that big metal barrier on the top five feet,

it's very, very difficult. people should coming in the country should come in legally not illegally it was interesting we spoke with a border agent yesterday who was there at the wall and he said i mean because people the cartel will just come and cut a hole in the wall so that you can get through and his he's there. He's the one who's trying to stop the cartels moving people across. He said a wall is not going to solve this problem. Every problem has many dimensions. You can't tell me that if they finish the wall, which includes a trench along the side of the wall that has seismic sensors in it. They can hear people in Mexico coming to the wall.

And it also has electricity for lighting. And then you put the people at the wall. I mean, they board a patrol at the wall. What do you make of what Joe Biden has done when it comes to the last few months? The number of people who are crossing over has dropped by something like 80 percent. It's as low as it was when Trump was president. What do you make of what Biden has done when it comes to the border? When Biden was running for election, he made it very clear he was for an open border.

And when he was elected, he essentially said, come one, come all. We've set a banquet for you. If you come, we'll treat you humanely. We'll process you. We'll release you into the country. And we'll make sure you have a place to live. I mean, who wouldn't want to come to the United States? That's been his policy. And then all of a sudden, oh, my God, I got to be reelected. Oh, this is a problem. Oh problem oh oh i'll do something about it

but do you think what he's done and i mean harris went down to to latin america as well and said we don't want you here like don't come she like that those were her words don't come was that enough to try to stop the problem that you see obviously no it didn't work. Although the numbers are lower, right? The numbers are significantly lower now that he's changed the open border policy to a more restricted policy. You spoke at the Republican National Convention and were there with Donald Trump. What do you think Donald Trump is offering when it comes to this issue? Donald Trump, when elected, will secure the border. He'll finish the wall, he'll put the trenches in, and he'll put the personnel that are needed at the border. And hopefully he will have a policy of letting in more immigrants legally.

Are you optimistic about the future of this country? We're down here in this beautiful part of the United States, in Arizona. Are you optimistic about the future of your country? I am, particularly if Trump is elected. If he's elected, I if Trump is elected. If he's elected, I can see more prosperity. He hopefully won't go after Democrats like they've gone after him. They've impeached him twice.

They've sicked the Justice Department on him. They've come up with ridiculous so-called crimes. I mean, it's just absolutely outrageous. If we can get out of that kind of tactics against Democrats if he's elected. Jim Chilton is a rancher in southern Arizona. The flow of people coming into the United States and skirting immigration systems is not new. Donald Trump has promised to deport at least 11 million people living under the radar in this country. And in Arizona alone, there are some 250,000 undocumented residents.

That hum you're hearing is the generator powering a food truck. And the family that runs the food truck came to Arizona almost 20 years ago from Mexico. They've built a life here and a business. What's good? Today, tinga, chicken, and chipotle sauce. And they're making my wife, and very good. And burritos, or gorditas. We're not using their names because living in Arizona without papers,

especially in this political climate, comes with the risk of being deported. It's almost lunchtime, and we are crowded together in this tiny little truck as the family prepares for the rush. salsa tomatillosas y también me hacen mi esposa secreto de Guajarico Los tamales de mole son de Oaxaca, así que ella los hace, ella hace los tamales en casa y ella lo hace y toma muchos ingredientes, así que ella estaba ahí a lot of ingredients so she was there and then we used the banana leaves to cover up the tamal. So then those are what they look like and she made, how much did you make? She made like 300. Like three months, it was two months.

She started doing little ones like oh I'll do a little batch here, ella empezó haciendo pequeños, como, oh, haré un pequeño parche aquí, sí, haré un parche aquí, haré otro parche en dos días, como, poco a poco, y luego ella terminó haciendo como 300. La mayoría del tiempo hemos trabajado juntos, en el restaurante también juntos, y siempre nos gusta trabajar juntos, yo me acoplo muy bien con él y él conmigo. Sí, así que lo que ella dijo fue, ella siempre trabajó juntos, yo me acoplo muy bien con él y él conmigo. Ella siempre trabajó juntos. Mi mamá y mi papá siempre trabajaron juntos. Tienen una buena química cuando trabajan.

Nuestra mentalidad de familia era traer algo de Oaxaca como parte de donde somos oaxaqueños. Porque no vamos a hacer unas comidas chinas si no somos chinos pero lo sabemos hacer bien para el cliente también que no regrese pero la comida mexicana siempre por mi esposa que hace todo con el sabor oaxaqueño pues pusimos la del negocio I want to make where I come from. I want to bring the culture to the United States. And that my mom makes delicious food, and they decided to do it together, and now that's what they do.

And now they're really glad to show that they're from Oaxaca and they serve Oaxacan food. The youngest member of that family is still a teenager. She's helping out in the food truck, but she agrees to take a little break to talk in the park. Your food is amazing. I'm really glad. The truck must be a busy, busy place. I mean, if you're making food like this every day, I'd be a regular customer. Yeah, it gets pretty busy like around lunchtime. So it's always good to work with my parents. It's always funny, you know. It's like a good bonding experience. I mean, that's a long time to spend with your folks in a small little,

you're in a tight little space there, right? It's cool to be with your parents that long. Yeah, it's like amazing. It's like a job that I never thought I wanted because I was like, oh, like I have to be there for five hours. But like it's so funny. Like my dad's so funny. He gets nervous a lot.

When he gets busy, like he gets super stressed out or nervous and anxious. But it's really funny to have my mom like try to like put him straight. He gets stressed when he looks at the line that we have and I was like don't look at the line, just look at the orders, just put your orders in and then that's when he like tries to, he doesn't look at the line and that helps him. Can you tell me the story of your parents and how they and you ended up here? Yeah, so my dad and my oh so i was like one i think and we were in nogales for a while so we're from originally from oaxaca and then

my tío was here already and then so my dad was like oh like i want to go with my brother like so then we all came here around the same time and we all came at one one time and then that we just stayed here we we stayed with my tío for a while and then we rented out one time and then we just stayed here. We stayed with my tío for a while and then we rented out a place and then now my sister has bought her house so now we're living there. Why did your parents want to come here? Why did they want to leave Mexico? Just to start a better life for their kids. They wanted a better future for me and my two siblings.

We're 10 and 15 years apart so when they had me they were like, well, we want something better for ourselves. That's a big decision, though, to get up and leave and go to a completely different country. Yeah. Have you talked to them about that, about how hard that was? Yes, because I not recently just found out, like I was undocumented, but it was like a big, because it was a huge thing because I had just turned 16 so now I'm 18 just about to turn 19 but it was a big thing and then I had I had a question that I wanted to get my license I wanted to get my permit and it's like oh I can't

because I don't have a social security number so it was like a big thing and I talked to my mom about it and she's like, well, and then my sister was like, yeah, like we came when you were like a baby. It was like a very emotional conversation Because like that was the first time that I knew like I wasn't or what I thought I wasn't like normal like Like Like I always had like an idea like, it was never told. And then I know it's very hard for my mom and for my siblings, but, like, they know that they had to do it, you know,

that it was better for them, for, like, me growing up. And I will always be grateful for them making that decision and coming to the United States. What, I mean, do you understand why it's, it's such a, why you're so emotional about it now? Like, do you know why it hits you like that? Um, I think it's more emotional for me now only because like it never was a big thing when I was younger like in elementary school I was never like oh like

I can't do this I can't do that when I grow up but then now it's like I'm older and now it like affects me more but then it's like oh my god like yes it affects me and yes sometimes like it's Like, oh, my God, like, yes, it affects me. And yes, sometimes like it's very, I mean, it's not like I get motivated to do certain things. But like my family wouldn't have been able to start this business or like buy a house or like be so close to family or have the opportunities that I do have right now. So I will always be grateful for them for making this decision. Can you just explain, for people who don't know, what does it mean in your life, like in your daily life, to be undocumented? This is a word that gets thrown around, right?

So what does that mean for you? Honestly, it's never like, oh my God, I wake up and I think I'm undocumented. It's not like that. I'm like a normal kid. I I wake up and I think I'm on document like it's not like that I'm like a normal kid like I'm 18 about to turn 19 um so it's never an issue until it is an issue like applying for scholarships like it's been it's a rough ride trying to find scholarships because it I can't get government funding so I have to go through private um companies or private corporations that will help people without, like, an SSN or with papers. And that's because you don't have a social security number?

Yeah, or, like, applying to certain colleges, like universities. Like, I can't apply to, it's hard to apply to Ivy League just just because i don't have social security and they're really expensive but now i'm a part of like this organization um ue which is like ish it's scholarships az and they help undocumented students like find scholarships and apply to colleges and universities your parents are also undocumented yes is there is there any sort of path where at some point in time they or you could, you said, have papers? Is that something that is in the future for you? We hope we hope so. There's not very a clear path right now. There was this thing called DACA, which was about 10, 12 years ago.

And that's when dreamers that are what are called like my sisters are dreamers. They have a work permit and they have an SSN, so they're allowed to work and have a license and purchase like credit cards and stuff like that. But now it's like with Prop 314 that people are starting to vote on. They can vote yes or no, and that's, they want to do mass deportation with people that are undocumented or even dreamers that have had status and have made a life for them and now that could be taken away and you weren't able to be uh put in that category you weren't able to be a daca recipient because you were too young yeah so when i i try i do have an application to daca but um

they took that away like they they're no longer accepting applications. So I wasn't able to get DACA. What do you make of the rhetoric that's kind of around right now? I mean, we're down here because of the election and because Arizona is such an important state in the election. And the big issue for a lot of people is the border. When you hear the talk that people have about concerns around illegal migration, what they call illegal immigrants, aliens is the word that gets thrown around. I mean, what does that mean to you, that language and that word? Yeah, it's very crazy or, like, sometimes it's, like, funny to me

because, like, people will say, like, oh, they're bringing drugs, they're bringing, you know, whatever. And it's like, we're normal people. Like, they're bringing you know whatever and it's like we're normal people like we just want to start a better life like we pay taxes like we pay millions of dollars in taxes people that are undocumented here in arizona there's like stats that 80 percent of people that are bringing like illegal fentanyl are u.s citizens citizens. So it's like, it's not us. Like, you can't all put us into one category, into one stereotype, because we're all different people and all coming from different stories, different backgrounds. So you just saying that we're all like these bad people is just crazy

to me. How does that affect you in terms of your day-to-day life when that's the rhetoric that's around? I mean, this election here is being fought over that very issue, right? How does that impact you day-to-day? Well, because now that we're starting our business and we're going on two years now, so that's been our main source of income. And I go about my day like some regular 19-year-old. I go out with my friends, I go to the movies, I work. I do this voting campaign with Aliento Votes. I call people that are able to vote and I give them a call and let them know their options. And to keep the immigrant community in mind, as they cast a vote. What do you think people don't understand about someone like yourself who is undocumented?

Well, people don't know a lot about Prop 314. And for us, it's like a big deal because we don't want to be separated from our families. That's a big issue. So I want people to know that, like, trying to do a mass deportation will affect families and could affect, like, the tax that are coming into the state every year. How worried are you about that? I mean, Donald Trump has talked about this mass deportation idea that he has. Whether that's possible or not, or whether it's likely or not, it's still something that's part of the campaign.

How worried are you about that? How worried are you about that? I'm very worried because now there's a prop, and now there's actually something to vote on it. And I just think it's crazy what types of rhetoric he uses on the immigrants and what he wants to do for DREAMers. It affects us because now I don't see a path of getting citizenship. What does that mean for you, for your future? I hope to get a job. I hope to get a work permit.

And I want to major in economics and I want to get a job. I want to pursue that. So I want to be able to do that. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal.

I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. They only come looking for us around election time. Whenever they want to vote or it's something crucial that they need for themselves, then they remember, oh, wait, I've got to go down to Nogales. Or, oh, wait, I got to go down to Nogales or, oh, wait, I got to start going to things, you know, Latino events because I need the support, I need the votes, right?

But during the time that they're in office, they really don't pay attention to the community. That's Yvette Serino. She comes from a long line of Democrats here in Arizona. But she became disillusioned with how that party treated Latino voters. She is now a staunch supporter of Donald Trump and the chairwoman of Latinos for Lake. Lake is Carrie Lake,

the controversial Republican running for U.S. Senate in Arizona. Carrie Lake has been one of the loudest voices denying the results of the 2020 election, both her own loss and that of Donald Trump. The way I see it, it's like you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe, but I'm not going to hate you for not agreeing with me. And that's just how I take it.

One of the reasons why it matters, I mean, facts are facts. You can believe what you believe, but facts can be facts as well. And what, you know, investigations show that the election was not rigged, that the voting machines that people thought were hacked weren't hacked, that all the crazy conspiracy theories, most of them, at the very least, if not all of them, can be disputed or dismissed. There's real concern that if this election is as close as it is, that come January 6, 2025, there could be another repeat of what we saw four or five years ago.

How worried are you about that? That because of people's unwillingness to say that he won in 2020, it could be worse this time around? As far as, you know, what's going to happen, I think, and this is what I believe, if, you know, Kamala was to win for president i don't think our party's going to do anything i don't think people are going to go out and burn businesses and burn you know i don't think so because we didn't do it when obama you know we didn't do that we're not those people and um if you have maybe a few well who knows what they're thinking right but that's a few but i don't want to be grouped into that, you know, as a whole,

because we don't do stuff like that. What I do fear is that if President Trump wins, I do feel, honestly, that we're going to see a lot of businesses burning because the Democrats are going to take to the streets and they're going to protest. I mean, why would you say that? I mean, because it was Republicans and supporters of Trump that stormed the Capitol, right?

So why would you say that? I mean, because it was Republicans and supporters of Trump that stormed the Capitol, right? So why would you say that it would be Democrats that would respond poorly if Harris loses? Because they always have. Just to be clear, are you concerned that... Part of it is, how does this help? If there's dispute around an election, how does it help kind of ease the concerns that people will have that this time around it could be even worse, that the disputes could be louder, that there could be more violent? I wish nobody would dispute, honestly, on either side. I just think that, you know, whoever wins, whoever gets in office, we're just going to have to, you know, do the best we can,

just like the Democrats are going to have to work with us and do the best they can to support, you know, President Trump. best we can, just like the Democrats are going to have to work with us and do the best they can to support, you know, President Trump. I would like to see them work better together and just stop the fighting, you know, because it's just not good. It doesn't help us as Americans. And then we look at this and we think, gosh, my goodness, look at all this stuff. I mean, look at all the stuff they did to President Trump while he was in office. Like all this, oh, the Russia, this, this and that. And it was all dismissed. Like they tried to impeach him. That didn't work because there was no evidence. It's like, let's not do that anymore and waste taxpayers' money.

Let's leave President Trump alone if he wins. Let's let him do what he needs to do. And let's actually humble ourselves and work with him. That's what the Democratic Party needs to do for the better of the people. If they really, truly care about their constituents as Democrats, they need to humble themselves and work together with President Trump to make our country great, to help ourselves first. America first is not saying that we're not going to help other countries or we're just going to dismiss the border. Right. And dismiss what's happening with the immigrants. It just means that we need to be healthy as a country to take care of ourselves first before we take care of anybody else.

It's like a mom. Right. I'm a mom. So in order for me to take care of my family, I need to be at my best. I need to, you know, it's me, you know, it's God, me, then my family, and then my country. What's the pitch that Donald Trump is making to Latinos, do you think? Well, the pitch is that he supports small business. And there's a lot of Latino small business owners in America. He also supports people that immigrated here and those are the people that are Democrats that are now voting for Donald Trump because they want everybody to do it the right way. You know, he supports Latino communities, like he has a lot of people on his staff that are Latino, even people that work at his businesses, and he's always been there for the community. Plus he's funny, like I think a lot of people,

they see him a certain way because that's what the media has portrayed, which is hard, right? Because they can do that with anybody. But until you meet somebody and you actually see them and you interact with them, then they know, like, really truly what kind of a person he is. And I've had the opportunity to do that on several occasions. I even got invited to his home in Mar-a-Lago, and I went with my son. And he's a great guy. Like, he's funny. But he does care. on several occasions. I even got invited to his home in Mar-a-Lago and I went with my son and he's a great guy. Like he's funny, but he does care. Yes, he does say some things that are like,

you know, people are like, why did he say that? You know, I don't like what he said. You might not like what he said and you might not like him, but his policies worked. And the thing with him is that he's going to be a president for the whole United States, not just half. He'll take care of everybody, no matter if you hate him or you want to kill him, because look at how many times they've tried to kill him. I mean, it's so sad. We've never even seen something like that. But he truly is a great guy. Can I go back to some of the things he said? I mean, when he first announced that he was running for president, he goes down that escalary later and talks about how the people who are coming across the border are rapists and murderers.

They're not sending their best people. He's talked about how the immigrants coming here are going to poison the blood of America. That they're not the right kind of immigrants, that they're going to change the culture and change the complexion of the United States. Why isn't that something? Why aren't those comments that knock Latino voters back and say, hold on a second, this guy doesn't have our best interests at heart. He's calling us rapists and murderers. Well, I get that question a lot, actually. So when I do interviews, they're like, why does he say this? Or why did he call us animals? Right. But he's not speaking of every single person that crosses the border. Like he's not talking about the children. He's not talking

about the women that aren't criminals or some of the men there's a lot of good families that are trying to cross and get into the united states it's just they feel that the process takes too long and they feel like by crossing the border like the way they do illegally is faster but it's more dangerous and the sad part is is that they sell everything that they own and they pay a coyote money to cross them but then that person may not even cross them. And like I said, they could be sex trafficked or all that stuff. But President Trump is not calling every single immigrant that's crossing that border a criminal or a rapist or a drug dealer. I mean, there are many that are definitely very dangerous people.

Those are the people we don't want in our country. He's not saying don't come here. He's just saying come here, but do it legally. And hopefully in the future, there'll be a better process that's quicker where they don't have to resort to these types of measures because it's always been that way. What is the response from the community when he says that service from the Latino community, especially? Some people that are closed minded, they will think, wow, he's calling me that. Right. But that's a person that's not like open to other things. I mean, I myself am Latino, but I'm Hispanic, Italian, and I wasn't offended.

I mean, I know a lot of people that I know didn't feel like he was calling us that. Right. Because I mean, if you just think if you're closed minded, you think, gosh, he's calling me that. Right. It's terrible. But he's not. He's not calling everybody that he wants people to come here and immigrate legally. My great grandfather came from Italy and immigrated through Ellis Island. You know, they did the process, and a lot of people's families did. You know, we're all connected to somebody that's immigrated here, but they did the process correctly, and it's safer, and it helps because, you know, the only ones that suffer in this situation are the children. He's talked about deporting upwards of 11 million people, the largest deportation effort in U.S. history.

When you hear that, what does that mean to you? What do you think that means in this country now? Well, I think that, you know, definitely they should be deported. Who? The ones that have crossed illegally. I think that they should be deported. I think that the children that have come here without parents should be given back to their parents because it's very dangerous for them to stay here alone

and be vetted out to people that they don't even know who they're giving these children to, and God only knows what they're doing with them. So just to be clear, everybody who's here illegally should be deported? Is that just the way I can understand it? Is that what you're saying? I think people that have crossed illegally should be. I think there should be a process, personally. I'm not speaking on behalf of anybody but myself, but I think there should be a process for those that have been here

for a long time that have contributed to our community because there are very good people that do a lot of the jobs and, you know, I mean, we couldn't live without them, right? But I think there should be a process for them to citizenship that have already been here, have already established themselves, that pay taxes, you know, those people should have some kind of pathway to citizenship. And I believe there will be something. But as far as the ones that have crossed now under Joe Biden, I mean, we're talking like, I think it's like 25 million that have crossed under his administration since he took office. Those people should be sent back. And even the immigrants that are here illegally that have worked here say it's not fair because even when they came,

they didn't even get a debit card or a phone or a housing. They weren't provided those luxuries, and they had to work hard to even do what they do. We met a family earlier, and they came across almost 20 years ago. And we met with their young daughter. She came across and she was one. They're here. They have a business.

They pay taxes. But they are undocumented. And they're trying to figure out what their path forward is and what her path forward is. What do you think should happen to a family like that and to somebody like that, an 18-year-old, who came across with their family, they were looking for a better life, she was a year old, and now she lives here? What should happen to them? Well, I think that President Trump should be open and sit down with those families and actually, you know, listen. And I know that he's the type of man that would do that. He would definitely listen and see

what he could do. You know, I don't think anybody's really brought it up to him like that, but I'm pretty sure that if he had those types of families in front of him and they wanted to speak with him, I know he'd make time for them and definitely sit down and, you know, think of ways to help them. How do you understand the long list of people who worked with President Trump who say that there's no way he should be allowed back in the Oval Office? I mean, they're very senior people within the White House, very senior people within the Republican Party who say he's, like, these are their words, that he's a fascist, that he will be a threat to democracy, that he is not capable or competent and should not be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office again. How do you understand that? Well, part of it is jealousy. Jealousy? Yes,

that's how I see it, right? Because we, you know, the Ten Commandments, you should never want what other, you know, somebody else has, right? But that's how I see it. Because a lot of times it's like, President Trump is who he is. But like, if you've ever been in a room with him and he walks in and he like just I mean, just his aura, like he just comes in. He's very not commanding, but it's just it's something like out of this world. It's like an experience because you're like, wow, this man has power. He's got power. But a threat to the United States. I don't think it's a threat. What I think is that when we had him as president, we didn't have any wars. Look at everything that's going on right now under Joe Biden. I mean, look at what happened with Afghanistan. Look at what's going on with Israel. I mean, with Russia. Look at, you know, I mean, you have Ukraine. So many things have happened. And to me, that's a big downfall. That's a big zero for me, like under them, because I thought, wow, I never thought we would see these things happen. And here they're happening. So many people have died. So many people are suffering. I mean, look, we're still at war, you know, and now we're sending troops in there to help Israel. Under President Trump,

we didn't have that. And the thing is, is that they were afraid of him. And I like that, that, you know, world leaders were afraid of him. But I also like that world leaders also got along with him, especially like Kim Jong-un. Like, I mean, we never saw that. And the guy likes him. I mean, that's a good thing. You know, that's a good thing for us because we don't want them to blow us up either but i mean you need somebody in the white house that is commanding that has those relationships and i think what really helped him is that he wasn't a politician he was a businessman and we need that we need somebody that's a businessman that's going to do the right thing but i don't think he's a threat i don't think he's a threat to democracy i think there are some things that are out of his

control that people do within our party that obviously we don't we he's a threat. I don't think he's a threat to democracy. I think there are some things that are out of his control that people do within our party that obviously we can't control everybody, right? We can't control people's actions. But I don't feel that he should be blamed for other people's actions in the party for certain things. And I think that's what they're relating that to is like January 6th. But we can't control what people do. Just finally, what do you think is at stake in this election? I think there's a lot at stake. I think that futures for young people are at stake. I mean,

they can't buy homes. Some people can't even get a job. People are still losing their jobs. Businesses are still closing under Biden and Kamala. And we need to, number one, get our economy back up and secure the border. I mean, I can remember 30 years ago, the most people across the border was like, oh, we got a thousand. Ah, that's a lot. You know, they were like, that's a lot of people, you know, and that was across the whole border. That was a lot of people, but it was different. It was different back then. Now what they're doing is they're sending their criminals from the jails. They don't want to deal with them because they're thinking if they empty out their jails and they send them to America, let Americans deal with that problem. No, no, no, no.

We can't do that. You need to deal with your own thing. And what I would like to see personally is us go into those countries, into those communities where they're sending all these people, and let's drop some programs. Let's have some immigration stuff in those cities and communities. Let's give them education. This is how much it costs. This is what you need to do. If you have to wait, it's worth you waiting

and saving your life or your child being raped or sex trafficked, whatever. But it's worth it. America is worth waiting for, but America is also worth fighting for. Yvette Serino is chairwoman of Latinos for Lake. Everywhere we went in Arizona, tiny pottery shack, hotels, coffee shops,

people are more than keen to share their opinions about this election. There's about 500 people in the tiny town of Aravaca, which is close to the Mexico border. And it's a place where everyone knows each other. Hey Jay, we're going to start early, okay? We're going to start at 1 o'clock. I know you're exhausted. Come over if you want. We're about 10 miles from the border in a straight line that way, okay?

This area was founded in, oh, 1700, 1780, something like that. Mining, ranching, things like that. The hippies came in about the 60s sometime, and they assimilated eventually. Great story about that, but I'll tell you later. Yeah, we're kind of, you turn off the highway, and when you reach the edge of the earth, that's where we are. Today we're meeting Ken Buchanan, along with fellow Aravakans David Teller and Steve Rendon. Three guys who do not see eye to eye on politics, but are willing to hear each other out. And with tensions high ahead of election day, talking about politics in a small town like this can be tricky.

This is the clubhouse. Describing the place that we have chosen to meet is no easy feat. Nestled among the cactus is an old double-wide trailer. You can tell there have been DIY extensions added on. Inside, the painted plywood floor is scuffed from years of heavy traffic. There are well-worn couches, a table for poker nights, big wood stove, and one beer on tap. This is the Crooked Sky Country Club, and as the sign outside reads, this is a members-only joint.

We got tired of going to the bar. They didn't really want a bar, they wanted a tea house. We wanted a bar, you know. We play poker on Tuesday nights, too bad you're not here on Tuesday. poker on Tuesday nights. Too bad you're not here on Tuesday. Pool on Friday nights and, you know, lying, telling lies on other nights. As we settle in around the table, Ken rolls a smoke from the big tin of American spirit tobacco, something he will do enough times that I will lose count. What do you think is at stake in this election, Ken? Our democracy. I would vote for Mickey Mouse rather than Trump.

I'm not a big fan of politicians to begin with. There's so much wrong with our country, and none of them are really addressing it, that it's difficult. But I think in this case, it's the lesser of two evils. Dave, what about for you? What do you think is at stake, but also where are you leaning, given what you think is on the ballot? I'm going to vote Harris.

Primarily because anything to stop Trump from becoming president again is what I think is necessary. He's created this condition in the country where there isn't a willingness to communicate differences between members of the community. Ken said that Harris is the lesser of two evils from his perspective. Is that how you would see it? She's not my favorite person. She's a politician.

So in that regard, she's the lesser of two evils. And Steve, what do you make of that, hearing fellow folks here at the table say that they'd rather vote for Mickey Mouse than Donald Trump? Well, you know, that's their opinion, and I respect that. But I have to go, when President Trump won, there was looting, riots, demonstrations almost on a daily basis. So this is what I'm afraid what's going to happen again. Who's going to be rioting? I mean, when Joe Biden won, I mean, there was an attack on the Capitol. I'm afraid is going to happen again. Who's going to be rioting? I mean, when Joe Biden won, there was an attack on the Capitol. I'm sorry?

When Joe Biden won, there was an attack on the Capitol in the wake of that. On a daily basis? No, but not just in the wake of that. No, I'm talking about nationally. Nationally, there was rioting. There was Antifa, Black Lives Matter. So I'm afraid that's going to happen again. Do you worry about what might happen this time?

If this election is as close as people say? Yeah, I think there's still reason to be concerned about what might happen. However, I don't think it's from the Democratic side that we're going to see that issue. If Trump wins, he will accept it as being the president. There's not fraud in our electoral system on any level that could affect politics in a national election. And if he loses? If he loses, he's created a situation in the country that there's enough people that could be radical enough. I don't know. I have no idea what they might do. I didn't think there would be an attack on the Capitol.

Well, what I'm hearing from the Congress is that if Trump wins, they're going to put a stop to his election. They're going to stop it at the Congress level. So Congress has to vote. After the election is done in January, they have to vote. So the Democrats' Congress is already saying they're not voting for him. They're not going to put him in office. So that means, I I think if Trump wins, then the vice president is temporarily

president if the Congress does that. Where did you hear something like that? If you just Google it, Congress is looking to stop. They're not going to vote him in. And it's out there.

I've got to ask again, where did you hear this? Because this is the first time I'm hearing about it. I don't remember the Congress's Democrat and from what state he is, but I'll send that information from that Congress person who's already saying that. Okay. Well, I haven't heard that before. Part of the problem we're having in this country right now is there are so many things that are being said that are just blatantly not true. Well, this is something that this congressman said on the news, so we're going with that.

How do you see the issue of the border being so close? My issue is how many people have crossed, and we're looking at probably 10 million, 20 million. We don't know. And how the housing, the medical, the education, the jobs, where do they find that? You know, that's the issue I have. So back to the jobs. Let me address that part of it for a minute, Steve. So we have all of these illegal immigrants coming here, taking people's jobs.

I don't know if they're doing that. So, well, if they didn't have a job to take here, would they come here? What happened in this town when, I mean, there were like vigilantes that showed up around the border, right? Oh, yeah. That was a nightmare. They were going to seal the border. They were going to save us all. You know, the vigilante is very misguided.

Very, very misguided. How were they driven out of town, but kept out of town? They weren't kept out of town. We can't keep them out of town. But you could keep them out of your business. You know, you can say, yeah, you're not welcome here. And they pretty much have to leave or they can be arrested for trespassing. You can tell anybody you're not allowed here. And that's what happened. But eventually they realized that there was just nothing going on

here. You know, there was no children being stolen. There was nothing going on. That's what I was going to say. They would have, they just know, there was no children being stolen. There was nothing going on. That's what I was going to say. They just eventually realized there was no reason for them to be here. And the hysteria that had brought them here was just that generated by actually you guys. The media. Yes. Media. Yes. Not us specifically. Not you specifically. That's one thing I do want to address is the fear-mongering that goes on about the immigration. You know, even people that are for immigration, politicians that are for, have to be very careful. They can't say, oh, no, no, we want to welcome these people. There's never been a politician say, I'm for open borders.

I don't care what lies have been told about that. No politician has ever said, I'm for open borders. They want to ease up on immigration. They want to redo immigration so it's possible to get these people to immigrate legally. But the politicians, all politicians do this. They fearmonger. If I can make you afraid, I can control you. So what is, let's end here. What is the message? Do you think you're all sitting around this table and you agree or disagree on a bunch of different issues, but you all live in this community. And when the election's done as pointed as it is, you're going to run into each other here or at the store or on the street.

What is the message, do you think, that can come out of this, where people can disagree without being disagreeable in some ways? The way I feel is we all have our thoughts and agendas. And so, but I think what happens here, we can talk it out and still maybe learn something from somebody else. You know, it's not always, you can't be so rigid. Why do you think it is, Ken, that you're able to, I mean, again, strongly disagree with each other without it becoming as pointed as we see elsewhere in the country? Well, it just goes, comes back to respect. You know, we respect each other.

You know, you may be an idiot, but you're still okay to be respected. And we've always had disagreements. You get two people in a room, you've got three different opinions. There's always disagreements, but if you treat each other with respect, the disagreements are minor.

They're just, they're nothing important. Maybe there's a lesson to be taken from the fact that three people who disagree with each other can sit around a table and talk. Sit down and talk to one another. Right. It becomes really apparent. We have more in common than we have differences. Thanks for having us in your clubhouse. Okay, we can drink now?