The Current - Ask Me Anything: Jason Kenney on Alberta Separatism

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

We've got a special episode today of Cross Country Checkup. It is Canada's only national phone-in show, broadcasting live from coast to coast to coast. Checkup is Canada's weekly town hall — a place for raw, honest perspectives on the most pressing issues of the week. For over 55 years, it's where Canadians gather to listen to each other every Sunday afternoon. This week, the host Ian Hanomansing is joined by Former Alberta premier Jason Kenney for a special Ask Me Anything.

Hi, Steve Patterson here, host of the debaters, the show where Canada's top comedians answer Canada's top questions like, is Winnipeg the best place to raise a family? We're expecting to raise a little heck with this one, so don't miss it wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway. We have a special bonus episode for you today from CBC's cross-country checkup. It's a show where you can hear what Canadians are thinking about. When it comes to the issues of the week, the questions they have, the diverse opinions, that we all hold as Canadians. Every week, Ian Hannah Manning is joined by newsmakers and experts,

and he connects them with listeners from all over this country to hear their questions or just their raw and honest opinions on the stories that everyone is talking about. It's Canada's weekly town hall where you can have your say. Here is what some Checkup listeners had to say this weekend. Have a listen. Hi, I'm Ian Hannah Mancing. Welcome to Cross Country's Spotlight,

highlights from Checkups Live Show on Sunday. And this morning, you're about to hear our Ask Me Anything, thing with former Alberta Premier Jason Kenney. It's bananas, if we allow a tiny, perennially angry minority to drag the whole province through a deeply divisive debate and referendum. I really, I really think this is a critical moment, like not for just some veneer of rhetorical unity, but actual sense of deep patriotic unity. One of the criticisms of Mr. Pauliam has been that he has appeared too often.

to be a tough opposition leader rather than Prime Minister and waiting. I think we're seeing more Prime Minister in waiting. Former Alberta Premier Jason Kenney has been critical of efforts by separatists in his own province, calling the push for a referendum on leaving Canada deeply divisive. Last week after separatist leaders claimed they had backing from members of the UCP, Kenny warned that MLAs from his former party should not be signing a petition that promotes separation. With the debate over separatism intensifying, and both federal law, liberal and conservative leaders working to build bridges with Albertans, Jason Kenney joined us for a special Ask Me Anything.

Kenny is also a former member of parliament and federal cabinet minister under Stephen Harper between 2006 and 2016. He joined us to take questions about separatism, Canadian politics, and threats to Canada. Here are some highlights from the show. Jason Kenney, thank you very much for doing this. Good to be here on Super Bowl pregame. That's right. And you won't miss any of the, well, hardly any of the game. Anyway, let's start with Alberta separatism.

You have been sharply critical of the idea of your province leaving Canada. How surprised are you to see it appears anyway this movement gaining traction? Well, not entirely. As you know, there's a long history, and I think a understandable one of alienation in the West generally, Alberta in particular. Alberta and Saskatchewan were in a certain sense afterthoughts and confederation, and when they were created as province,

a very small allocation of Senate seats, no ownership initially of their natural resources, and kind of mercantilist outposts for the central Canadian economy. Farmers had to pay more for their, you had to pay high freight rates to ship their grain to markets and had to pay inflated prices for implements manufactured and a protected central Canadian economy. So that kind of instilled in the political culture out here,

this sense of alienation, massively accelerated under the National Energy Program and then further accelerated, during the decade of the Trudeau administration's apparent hostility to our largest industry. So that's always been there. But the separatism per se has been a pretty fringe movement. It's existed as a political idea is roughly since 1980, since the NEP. And in that time, we've had a whole bunch of different separatist parties on the ballot federally or provincially.

By my count, they've run in about 24 elections. federally and provincially, and they only ever won one ride, during a by-election, 82 in the heart of rural Alberta at the height of the NEP. And, you know, just, for example, in the 2021 federal election, at the height of Justin Trudeau's unpopularity here, beginning of the convoy movement, a former Harper cabinet minister, the Honorable Jay Hill,

formed a separatist party, the Maverett Party. They only got about 35 candidates out of roughly 100 in Western Canada, and they got 0.02% of the vote. So that's why I say it's pretty marginal, but now they're leveraging, the marginal folks who run the movement are leveraging the frustration of what I call frustrated federalists to send a message,

and that's become a pretty powerful calling card. So you used to be Alberta Premier. The woman who is now Alberta Premier changed the law last year to make citizen-led referendums easier, and she amended legislation your government, government introduced in 2022. How do you feel about how that law is now being used? Well, I, look, I try not to criticize my successor because I don't want to be that kind of guy, but I don't want to respect it. It's a hard job and not second-guess everything my successor does.

But there's a reason why I in the government caucus chose quite high thresholds in the initiative law that we adopted, I think, in 2019. and we did so because we didn't want a micro-minority to be able to dominate the entire politics of the province in a very divisive way, particularly on this question. But in a way, it said like the, I think we had a 20% threshold. You had 60 days to meet it. 20% of electors to sign a petition in 60 days. but in a majority of five regions of the, sorry, in three-fifths of the provincial ridings in the problem. So it would require real geographic distribution and a very high threshold.

I didn't think the separatists could meet it. And by putting it out there, we in a sense were demonstrating that. In a way, I think it's pretty obvious. The government was inviting this. I think they imagined that it would create leverage in dealing with Ottawa, but I think it's been a huge strategic mistake. And one other point I'd like to make, when I led the way to forming the United Conservative Party as the merger of two legacy center-right parties, there were very few points on which I was absolutely insistent in the negotiation. I was pretty laissez-faire in much of it,

except one of my absolute red lines was that we include in the founding declaration a loyalty to a United Canada and a commitment for Alberta to be a leader in the Canadian Federation that constructively defends the best interests of the province. So, you know, we created it with a 95% ratification from a vote of the membership of the two legacy parties

explicitly to be a federalist party. Yeah, that's really interesting. Doug Fleetwood is in Edmond. Hi, Doug. Hey, how are you doing today? Doing well. What's your question for Jason Kenney? Okay, well, the more I'm listening to the show,

it's just bringing up more questions, so I'm hoping I can get to like the three of them. The one is I just want to know kind of his strategy, what it would be to kind of try to end it. the divide between, I guess you'd say, left and right, liberal conservative. But what he was just speaking about there, about the recall and stuff in the Alberta government. I just want to comment on that. It seems like when we have an election, so this is Alberta, obviously, the conservatives win the election.

It always seems like the other side will do anything they can to get involved. and try to overturn anything they can, which is, to me, is interfering with the democracy, right? We won. So how about you guys try to win four years from now? Okay. You know, that's just the way it seems. And it seems like when the liberals win, as they have federally,

you don't see the conservatives out on the streets trying to overturn what the people voted for. Okay. So, you know, Jason Candy is listening carefully to your comments, and I'll let him jump in. Sure, thanks, Doug. On the first, you know, I get your point. I think we see so much polarization today that it is tough troubling.

But at the end of the day, we do live in a democracy. And there's always going to be strong differences. And that is a feature of living in a free and democratic society. I think the challenge for all of us, and I say this to myself, because I haven't always been 100% civil and respectful of my adversaries and politics through my time, tried to be most of the time, but fell short of that. I think the challenge for all of us is citizens, especially for folks who are elected, is as much as possible.

Try to disagree without being disagreeable. Try to focus on the issues and not the personalities. And try to be constructive. Try to propose solutions and debate those. And I think that's kind of the ideal approach in a diverse democracy. On the second question, I get you. I actually did bring in the, as Premier, the recall legislation that had been in Alberta, way back in the day in the progressive era in the 20s and 30s.

Interesting side note when they started to use it against, the doctors actually tried to use it against Premier Aberhart in his own riding. And he quickly went into the legend repealed it. But I had seen that the NDP government back in the early 90s adopted both a citizen-initiated referendum law and a recall law. And we basically just replicated those with the same thresholds. And the idea on the recall was you don't get to relitigate the election every six months. But if you have an MP or an MLA, I should say an MLA who was elected on like clearly lying about their background or is committed fraud or maybe they get a criminal conviction or something really outrageous, there should be a tool to address that.

That's the idea behind the recall. But I think this idea of this interest groups using it to rerun the election is not what it's intended for. All right, Doug, look, I know you have two more questions, but I really do need to go. to other people who also have lined up and are waiting patiently. And one of those is Mozin Hasham, who's in Toronto. Hi, Mozine. Hi, Ian. What's your question for Jason Kenney?

Yeah, so I think, first of all, Jason, thank you for, I know earlier you were talking about kind of historical context. So I'm going to pivot away from my original question because I think that was helpful. Just to paint a little bit of a background, my parents fled Uganda. in 1972. We're a smiley Muslim. And, you know, I'm the child of immigrant parents. I'm a settler on stolen land. But this is a safe country. And it's a free country. And as you pointed out, it's a democracy. I speak French fluently. And I think about what has happened in Quebec since, particularly since the 60s. You see a lot of movement away from investment because of the volatility that the independence movement has, you know, put upon Quebec,

how do you see that playing out, like, as far as investment in terms of business and, you know, the movement of, you know, economic means towards Alberta, yes, there's obviously the natural resources that exist, but, you know, when you create uncertainty in your province or in your, you know, your area, you know, that can yield negative economic results. Okay, that's an interesting point, Mozene. Let's put that to Jason Kenney. Thanks, Mozine. I have great regard for the, as Miley community, by the way, and it's huge contribution to Canada. But I'm going to have to disagree with you on that notion that Canada is stolen, on stolen land. And I think I'm going to connect it to separatism, because I do

think that the, that sort of language that we heard from Prime Minister Trudeau for a decade, no national identity and, you know, a genocide. country on stolen land has undermined attachment to Canada patriotism. And that's perhaps one of the reasons we're seeing renewed separatism, both here and in Quebec. I mean, we have treaties in most of Canada. And by the way, First Nations were on land, when Europeans encountered them, were on lands that they had taken from other First Nations before them. So I don't think it's unhelpful to characterize history in that way. On your question of the economy, one of my primary concerns about the separatist movement, even if they just be, if they get on the referendum, even if they only

get 15 or 25%, you know, it will still create a lasting brand damage on Alberta as a place in which to invest. The first thing that investors look for is political stability and regulatory certainty. And if they aren't absolutely, you know, when you invest in major like resource projects, oil, sands, mines, or whatever, any big projects, you're looking at a 20, 30-year horizon for your capital investment. And if you're not sure that that jurisdiction is going to be in Canada with tariff-free access to the rest of Canada, with tariff-free access to the 50-plus countries with which Canada has free trade agreements, if you don't know, whether your workers are going

to need a work permit to go from Calgary to Regina or anything, and all of the uncertainty, that will lead inevitably to capital flight. And I know this. I'm a business advisor now. I've been at investment conferences in New York and London, when they hear on the former Premier of Alberta, the first question they ask is, what the hell is going on with Alberta separation? Quebec, after the PQ was elected in 76, saw a massive flight of capital and people, about

a quarter of a million people left Montreal and over the ensuing years that crashed real estate values. And Francois Legault, a former separatist, PQ minister says one of the reasons he became a federalist was because he realized the generational damage to Quebec's economy because of the threat of separation. So let's learn from that lesson. That's not repeated here in Alberta. Bruce McEwen is in Forster Falls, Ontario.

Hi, Bruce. Hi. What's your question for Jason Kenney? My question, well, I have a solution to the whole problem for Alberta, and that is for the people of Ontario and the rest of the country to sort of show a little bit of support in the next election and try to support the, you know, the Alberta situation because they've been sort of left out in the cold. And with the government going so radically against them now, the government that's in power,

it's just created this whole mess. And it's been the same for 10 years, but it's getting worse with the environmental portion and trying to shut the oil industry down or shut it out, basically. So this is up to the rest of Canada to help. If they showed support for a conservative government, in the next election, this would all just about disappear, in my opinion. So that, like if it separates, it's not, it's not just Alberta. It's the rest of candidates' fault, in my opinion.

Well, okay. That's an interesting and provocative point of view, provocative, because presumably people ought to be able to vote across the country for who they want without feeling responsible for a province leaving. But let me put a version of that question to Jason Kenney. Jason, do you think if there were, if there had been a conservative majority last time around, if there were to be a conservative majority next time around, that would dampen enthusiasm for separatism in Alberta?

Frankly, yes, it would. It would not dampen enthusiasm amongst that hardcore I described earlier that I think is less than 10%. They're just perennially angry. But for what I call the frustrated federalists who are loyal Canadians, they believe in Canada, many came here from other parts of the country, and they know ultimately that separating, becoming a landlocked state lit with no coastal access. They know none of that makes sense.

But they're frustrated and then they're looking for a way to show it. And then the separatists come along and say, and sort of seductively say, here's a way you can express that frustration. And, oh, by the way, get additional leverage from Ottawa as Alberta tries to negotiate a more, a fairer deal. So now we don't have the sign, have not had the same dynamic under conservative governments. I'm not making this for as partisan special pleading. Please let me be clear.

about that. But I can tell you, as an MP who was elected seven times, I think, to the House of Commons and served for 10 years in Stephen Harper government, there was none of this talk during the Harper government because there was a sense that it was a government that respected and understood the West and general, Alberta, the resource industries that tried to govern sensitively on those issues that did things like freed farmers from the wheatboard monopoly, repealed the liberal long-arm registry and, you know, streamlined regulations around pipelines and major infrastructure. So there wasn't a sense that Ottawa was against us. And unfortunately, most Albertans, myself included, did develop that impression from the Trudeau

administration. So, now, having I said that, just on his point, the caller's point, I encourage Canadians outside of Alberta who are concerned about this, they should all be concerned, to send a message to their friends and family in Alberta that's positive. We love you guys. We need you. You're a critical part at the Federation. And let me just say this to some of the Toronto opinion elites, they got out of the Front Street media elites. Every now and then, you'll read a column in the globe or the star, or God forbid, an opinion on CBC, which kind of sneers at Alberta and they're spoiled brats and they just don't, you know, they're wealthy and they don't, they don't appreciate

how good they got it in Canada and we should just tell them to grow up. That attitude, you see a lot of it on social media is very counterproductive. That's what the separatists want to hear. So I plead with friends in central Canada from left to right to please in this sensitive year put Canada first and demonstrate and try to demonstrate some empathy and understanding for the frustrations of a lot of really thoughtful people in Alberta. I'm not talking about the hardcore separatists, but those frustrated federalists. Fortunately, I'm not on Front Street in Toronto.

I'm on Hamilton Street in Vancouver, so that works out well. And I'm an Oilers fan, so that should count. for something. Let's say we only... I'm going to read a question from Nathan Highland. What is one thing Eastern Canadian should understand about Alberta? Well, that it plays a hugely oversized role in the Federation. On an average year, net fiscal contribution of about $20 billion.

We've been a huge accelerator of social mobility with high-paid jobs. And, you know, we are the most Canadian province because we have welcomed more people from across the country as interprovincial migrants than any other problems. So we are a key part of this country, but there's a real legitimate deep frustration. We need all of our Canadians, including the government in Ottawa, to understand that and reflect that. And if we do, I'm confident that we can get past this and to help build a stronger Canada. We need to do this again because we had so many calls that we didn't get to. And I had some follow-up questions that I didn't get to. But it was a real pleasure, Jason, to have you on the Ask Me Anything.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Jason Kenney, former Premier of Alberta and former Federal Cabinet Minister. That's a portion of cross-country checkups AMA with former Alberta Premier Jason Kenney. If you miss part of the segment and would like to listen to the full episode, you can stream it on the CBC Listen app or find and follow the Checkup podcast. And if you'd like to share comments or appear in a future show, go to cbc.com. I'm Ian Hannah Mansing. Thanks for listening.

The next live edition of Checkup airs on CBC Radio and CBC News Network next Sunday. That's an episode of cross-country checkup with Ian Hennamancing. They drop new episodes every Sunday night and you can find and follow the show wherever you get your podcasts

so you don't miss an episode. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.ca slash podcasts.