The Current - Behind an extremist network convincing kids to harm themselves

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Trinity was only 14 years old when she stumbled into the chat room where she would be groomed and abused for three years by online extremists. The group, known as 764, convinces children to commit unimaginable harms to themselves and others, like self harm. Ioanna Roumeliotis tells Mark Kelley about The Fifth Estate’s investigation into the group one investigator describes as “absolutely evil,” and Trinity’s mother explains why she feels the RCMP didn’t do enough to help her daughter.

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and let your email do the talking. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. We've long been told to keep an eye on what our children are doing online and who they're talking to. Now the RCMP are warning of a threat unlike anything they've seen before. An online extremist network of predators called 764, luring kids to private servers and chat

rooms, grooming them to do unimaginable things, self-harm, hurting pets, even public acts of violence. My co-host at the Fifth Estate, Jo Roumeliotis, first started investigating this group last year and since then she's found cases here in Canada, including a family who says their case wasn't taken seriously by the RCMP. And a warning, this story contains details of sexual assault, suicide and graphic content. Joanna joins me in studio now. Good morning. Good morning.

Good morning. How would you describe 7-6-4 and how did you find out about it? Well, we first heard about it last year when a father reached out to the Fifth Estate. He had found images of his daughter, very, very disturbing images of self-harm, and he was looking for help.

At the time, it was a pretty obscure group, and as we started digging into it, we started to speak to experts who were tracking it. We also found a victim and police in Virginia who helped us paint a very, very disturbing picture of the group. It's unlike, as you mentioned, Mark, anything experts and police have ever seen. These are people who are very familiar with the darkest, most depraved corners of the internet, and they were shocked.

Police describe it as a neo-Nazi, satanic network of extremists. That's a mouthful, but imagine how many dark elements are involved here. And the heartbreaking thing is they deliberately target kids who are vulnerable and they force them to do things like cut themselves, hurt their pets and hurt others. Now, at the time when we looked into it last year, we knew it was a global threat. We tried to get to the RCMP. They only responded with an email at the time saying they were aware of the group and they were keeping track of its potential threat. But we knew there was more to the story and we wanted to find out what the story was in Canada. Were there perpetrators? Were there victims? And then we found out there were.

You found a young girl named Trinity. How did you find her? Tell us more about her and her story. You know, Maria and Trinity spoke to the Fifth Estate for the first time publicly. It took some digging to connect with them, but once we did, their story was so horrifying and the fact that they were willing to share was incredible on their part. They live in Red Deer, Alberta. Trinity was a young teenager when she stumbled into a 764 chat room and within weeks, she said, she was groomed and then exploited by several members. Now we know 764 goes after vulnerable kids and Trinity told us she was easy prey. She had been

sexually assaulted for years as a child and she said it left her with a distorted sense of what male affection and attention looked like. And initially, you know, part of the grooming process is what they call love bombing. You know, they were very complimentary and attentive and she felt adored. But as the exploitation deepened, they started making demands that were very dark, including forcing her to self-harm, in some cases, carve their usernames into her skin. This is a trademark of 764. And her worst tormentor demanded she kill her pets and even her mother to prove her devotion. It's important to hear Trinity's voice. So here she is. I was 14 when I was groomed by members of 764 and I was exploited for three years. It

just became so painful. I didn't feel real. I didn't feel like a human being. We've tried to tell this story and nobody's listened. Nobody believes it. It's too obscure, it's too obscene. And Trinity's mom, Maria, joins us now from Alberta. We're not using the family name to protect their identity. Maria, this is a difficult story for anyone, but what's it like hearing that clip of your daughter? You know, it is, it definitely feels surreal watching, you know, clips and seeing ourselves telling the story hits different than it does when you tell somebody the story. It hits my heart differently to hear the sadness in her voice. It's been a difficult time.

Tell us about that journey, Maria. You started noticing changes in Trinity. So you went through her phone, which is a natural place to go for a parent. What did you find? I had found extremely disturbing photos of herself in compromising positions. I found a lot of pictures of animals being hurt,

videos of animals being hurt, along with videos and photos of her self-harming. I remember those pictures. I remember looking at that phone and the sheer devastation. It's one of those things that just doesn't go away. It's burnt in my mind forever. And you did what I think most parents would do, which is you took away her phone and tried to keep her off the internet. But then she became a runaway. When you called the police, what did they do for you? So I had originally called the police because I wasn't really quite sure exactly to the

extent of what this group was. I knew this group was there. because I wasn't really quite sure exactly to the extent of what this group was. I knew this group was there, I just wasn't really sure. So when she started to run away, my biggest fear was that she was going to meet up with these people and she was going to be trafficked or that she was going to be killed. So when I was calling the police as she was a runaway, it was always, this is a child who has mental health issues, this is a child who is suicidal, this is a child with the potential of being trafficked or put into prostitution. And I would say constantly, if I lose her, I'll never find her.

I know that I'll never find her. And they would say that they would keep an eye out for her, but legally they couldn't bring her home to me because she would just come out the door anyway. So they could bring her home, but she was going to leave anyway. So it was lack of help. It was also the age that she was in, it made it difficult for the police to kind of help. The child has more rights than I had at the time.

And when she hit a breaking point in July 2021, when members of 764 encouraged her to take her own life, what happened when you went to the hospital? When we went to the hospital, sadly, I would like to say that it was our first time, but it was not. So by this time, because of the level of self harm, I came in differently. I had come in extremely distressed. Every other time I had tried to hold it together as her mom when she tried to take her life and be stoic and you know, sit there and tried to tell the hospital kind of what was going on with her mental health and what had happened to her as a child. This time I came in and I was walking the hallways,

begging and pleading, you can't let her out of here. I can't keep her alive. If you let her out, she will die. I can't keep her alive. And I remember this little nurse came and hugged me and she said, we're going to do everything we can. Okay. And I said, well, you told me that you would before and you haven't. The police came, they took pictures of her body. She was taken to the safe house. Sadly, I felt that she was not held for long enough. She wasn't held for long enough, because when she came out, this continued and the violence got progressively worse. At the hospital, and when the staff calls the police and they meet with Trinity,

was that the first time that Trinity had told police about 764? Yes. And what was their reaction when they heard about it? When Trinity had first told them about 764, I think they were, I think they didn't believe us to be completely honest. I think that they thought again that this is a mentally ill child who is harming herself and wants to die. They were kind, they treated her kindly, but it wasn't by lack of judgment to me as a mother.

They were looking at me like I was the problem, I was the failure, and that my daughter must be lying. And I can hear it in your voice, I mean, what it is, it's a plea for help from anyone who can help. And at one point, you took the phones to the police, all the electronics, laptops, and you know, saying that this is evidence, you need help. And they were later returning to them saying that they couldn't get the right passwords to get in.

What did you make of that? Well, still to this day, I have a hard time believing that. This is what they do for a living. If a 764 individual can break into my Wi-Fi and find out my address and where I live and hack me and find out my family and all of these things. And these are just a Joe Schmo in their 20s or even younger or older. You cannot tell me that the police did not have access to that cell phone and did not find proof and evidence on what was going on to my daughter.

So you believe that they just weren't taking this seriously? I absolutely I think they weren't taking it serious because they're looking at my daughter as somebody who is mentally ill and self-harmed They're not seeing the full picture and you wanna you you that the key evidence was really what was on those electronic devices And the RCMP was having a hard time unlocking those devices to find the evidence You reached out to the RCMP in Red Deer to ask about those devices. What did they tell you about? They told us pretty much what they told Maria as well, that the passwords provided were incorrect.

And to Maria's point, you hear it in the doc, these groups made kids change their passwords constantly to avoid detection, so they couldn't remember them. Fair enough. And these are experts going into devices. So the assumption is that they could break in anyway. They did tell us though, that they got into the laptop and that despite using other investigational techniques, they couldn't access one of the phones and that if they kept trying, it could take years.

We asked if they found any evidence on the devices that they were able to access and they wouldn't share any information because they said Trinity was a youth at the time. And we did get an interview with the RCMP for this story. It was the head of the RCMP's counterterrorism unit in Edmonton who did not want to get into specifics of any case, but he acknowledged that in 2021, police officers were probably not as aware of 764 as they are now because he acknowledged that police are only really catching up with a threat in the last couple of years. Do police here in Canada or

around the world, do they actually know what they're up against? They seem to know more now. When we reached out last year, the RCMP told us they were aware and watching. Now the RCMP's counter-terrorism unit is leading a number of investigations in Canada related to 764 and police here and around the world rely on one of the world experts on 764. There's not many of them, cause this is a pretty

emerging threat, but he's right here in Canada. His name is Marc-Andre Argentino. He studies extremism, works with Public Safety Canada and says tracking 764 here is now a top priority. And he helped us understand the complexities behind this group and how the danger is escalating. There's no activism behind their decision. They're not even worried about, you know, the disappearance of the white race. This is actually an interracial community. They just want to be the most violent, the most misanthropic type of individual they can be. Here's a question for you. What's your email address saying about your Canadian business? First impressions matter and your email says a lot. It's your customer's first look at your brand. A custom.ca email shows your credible, professional,

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With our flexible financing and advisory services, we help you adapt, growing your business in the face of today's challenges and tomorrow's opportunities. Stepping up for entrepreneurs, we're on it. BDC, financing, advising, know-how. There's a turning point in the doc and in the investigation in Canada because the FBI gets involved.

So, tell us about that. What is the FBI doing and how has that affected the investigation and the role of the RCMP? The FBI got involved in Trinity's case after one of her perpetrators was arrested in North Carolina. As Maria mentioned, once the police returned the electronics, she didn't hear from them again about 764 for a number of years, but it was only after a detective in North Carolina got a tip that led him to Trinity.

And he felt it was very important for Trinity to be heard as a victim and to feel that she was believed and seen. So he arranged for the FBI to come to Red Deer to speak with her and the FBI notified the RCMP that it was coming and the RCMP also attended that interview and in fact an RCMP officer took the lead on the interview. And that was the first time since Trinity's suicide attempt that the RCMP was speaking

to the family again about 764 and that was three years later. Hmm. Maria, tell us about that when the FBI came to Red Deer to talk about Trinity. And the fact that this had been three years, you'd been living this experience for three years. What did you think about that, that it seemed like the FBI, their involvement was one that was making all the difference in this investigation? I was angry. I was angry that it was a complete other country that had to step in to help my daughter and

to be heard. So, of course, I was upset in the initial meeting. Of course, when Trinity did her statement, they were great. The way they handled her was fantastic. So I will always be appreciative of how sensitive they handled things. But after the meeting, when we all sat down in a room, I'm not going to lie, I was still very much upset about how this was mishandled by Canada, our country, my town, the RCMP.

And I don't think that I'll ever not be angry about how we were mishandled. Joanne, you met the person who facilitated that meeting, Detective Abraham Basco. How did he piece this story together? Well, you know, Detective Basco arrested an 18 year old named Kiara Cutler in October, 2022, and found hundreds of images of child pornography and self harm and gore on this person's devices. He didn't know any of the victims. He had no idea who they were.

But then in the fall of 2023, he got a tip about a victim. He made a call to the mom first, he told us, and that mom was Maria. And he didn't know it was Trinity because the group had given her another name. And he was given a name that he didn't even want to share with us because he didn't want to legitimize the group. But that was the username that the group had given to Trinity. And in the end, he spoke to Maria and it turns out that that girl was Trinity. So he had a chance to speak to her and he told us what he had found on the phone haunts him still. I've never seen content to that level. I've been doing this job for a long time and the only word I could come up with was it was just absolute evil. Hearing Trinity say this is what he did to me,

you know, and knowing that he's here so far away, it still is hard to wrap my brain around. You want a law enforcement around the world, including the RCMP, are now calling 764 a terror group. And one of the fascinating parts I found in this documentary is we really travel that journey from three years ago when Maria can't get the, it seems that Maria can't get the RCMP's attention. And then suddenly now they're being looked at as an extremist terrorist group.

Tell us about that and how did it evolve to become that? No, it is pretty shocking. I mean, Trinity had the added misfortune of being an early victim. And that's what's hard for the family. Um, it is surprising even since our last investigation, which was only a year ago, how much has developed. So when we reached out to the RCMP at the time, they responded in an email.

It took a lot of emails at this time to get them to sit down with us. And they talk about the threat escalating to the point of terrorism because Argentino, who we heard from earlier, who's an expert on this, he's been noticing alliances between 764 and other extremist groups who promote targeted attacks and mass killings. A recent school shooting in Nashville is tied to this new alliance and so are several stabbings in Sweden and the murder of an elderly woman in Romania. And last week, a Winnipeg man was charged with terror related

offenses tied to these groups. And these are the groups that are recruiting 764 members online to act out. Argentino says members are motivated by clout and to get more clout, it means you have to become more violent. And often they're live streaming their attacks. Individuals who are recording themselves, stabbing people at random, beating homeless people, starting fires, throwing bricks to schools or synagogues or mosques. This is how they're gaining

their popularity. You're escalating it to a higher level and when you make the news, you get more points. about these members of 764. As I was watching this, young men, I was just curious to know more about what has drawn them into this terrible sadistic network. You know, we were able to speak to a member who exploited the young girl in our first piece. And it's really hard to kind of feel a connection to this person, this particular person. He seemed almost detached from his own story.

Yeah, you have a conversation with, he's in prison. You have a telephone conversation with him. And he talks about how he was going after social media notoriety. He wanted to be popular online, and he was was the founder or one of the founders of one of the initial groups in the 764 network, because there's a bunch of them. He talked about how he was looking for kicks, if you will, how he never really thought about the impact it would have on the young people he was exploiting, that he has empathy issues

and that he's working on that while in prison. He also talked about, and this was an early precursor to what Argentino was talking about and the terror threat. He talked about that there was this fascination among members about mass acts of violence, especially ones that were motivated

by racism. So a pretty dark conversation and not one that really leaves you feeling that this person has a whole lot of insight as to the harm he already caused. But in a bigger picture scale, there are many members who are very young, 14, 15, some of them are 11 years old. And there's a feeling that these kids cannot be simply thrown away. In the US, many of them are serving long sentences. The founder of the group, Bradley Cadenhead, was only 15 when he started this group and he named it after his

zip code in Texas. He's serving an 80 year sentence in the US. But in Canada, there seems to be a bit more of a focus on rehabilitation. So we know two cases of 764 members in Canada who are being helped by a group that tries to reintegrate extremists into society. And when we spoke to them out there in Edmonton, they talked about how in their experience working with youth, often predators have their own history of abuse and then that they learn

to detach from the violence they inflict on others and that with intervention, with the right amount and the right kind, they can develop empathy and compassion. But they told us as well, they've never seen anything like this. And they're kind of grappling as to how to best approach this because it is a tough one. Jared Sienaar M. Maria, as I mentioned, we sort of follow your three-year journey with your daughter in this documentary. And I wonder with your own story now, you've learned so much, just like the authorities themselves have learned so much. Are there things you would have done differently as you were learning more about what Trinity was struggling with

and just, you know, this group and the deep depravity of this group? You know, my hands, I would like to say that I would have done things differently, but my hands were tied. There is no services for children like this. At the time, there was no services. There is no services for children like this. At the time there was no services, there was nowhere I could put her, there was no safe houses, there was no help and there still isn't services for these kinds of children who are victims and who are needing more than one week or 10 days to change their frame of mind. Would I have done things differently

a little bit? I was chaos. I was begging, pleading, screaming. I maybe would have handled myself differently a little bit, but at the same time, I was terrified. She's my only child and I was terrified to lose her. One of the lines in the documentary that stood out for me, I mean among many because it is so powerful as when you When you told you wanna how you were sleeping with a knife under your pillow What was that like like for you and what told did it take on you? so The crazy thing is you know

I was a young mom and I wanted so so badly to have a child and I did because I wanted to be loved unconditionally. And to hear that your daughter is going to take your life really just changes you. And it changes your heart and the way that you feel, because that is who you put everything into and who you loved and have loved your whole life. So it was hurtful. It was terrifying. I was scared of my own daughter. It was some of the darkest, hardest times of my life.

And this is going to be a lot more public now, as you say, the darkest time of your life, your deepest secrets, as you describe them, out there for the world to see. Maria, I wonder why did you both decide to speak to the Fifth Estate about this? We felt a responsibility at the time. There wasn't a lot of families coming forward and speaking on this matter, especially not families that were willing to show their face and say their name out of fear of retaliation. So we felt a responsibility to help other families so parents don't feel the way that I did, so Trinity doesn't feel helpless like she did.

To bring awareness to this group and hopefully, you know, make some changes there. And make some changes with the way that the community sees these children and the way that the community treats these parents. Have you heard from, have you spoken with other parents? Are you starting to find, develop a little unofficial network here, a support network? Absolutely. I have met a parent in BC. I've also, I'm in touch with a woman who actually goes around and speaks about internet

safety on Facebook. So that's been great. But this has also been difficult on our family. So to have parents whose children are either still involved or very freshly out has become extremely heavy on my heart. And it's very difficult for me to deal with at this time. And so my priority is me and my daughter and healing from this and moving forward. Absolutely. And tell us about your daughter. How is Trinity doing now? Well, you know, healing is not a clean way of going about things. So she has her ups and she has her downs.

But as of today, speaking on today, Trinity is doing a whole lot better. I think she's proud of herself. She is looking forward to the future. She would like to, you know, let this go. Instead of doing advocacy work, I think Trinity wants this to be in her past and live her life for what she wants it to be and not what it was. Yawana, you've been working on this story.

This is the part two in essence of your investigation, at least. What do you, you're a parent, what do you hope other parents get from this? I think first off kudos to Maria and Trinity for being so brave and to Maria's point, we met with them often over the last few months and every time we came, you know, the night before they told us, you know, they had a hard time sleeping or were anxious about the story coming out, which is so understandable. As a parent, it is so terrifying and gutting that predators go after these vulnerable kids specifically. The fact that they lure them in often with either in Trinity's

case by love bombing her or making her feel like she was special, or in other cases, they lure kids into these chat rooms on the guise that they're, you know, safe spaces for somebody who's struggling with their self-esteem or a kid who's neurodiverse and not fitting in. So that part is really gutting and it's really what stood out for the officers that we spoke to and the experts as well. And you know, one officer in Alberta who is in the documentary when we asked him about Trinity and he hadn't heard of her case, he said that when he hears about cases that they miss that it crushes him and that he says there's no officer who doesn't wish they could rewind the tape and try again.

And as I mentioned earlier, Trinity had the added misfortune of being an early victim, before people really knew what they were up against. And hearing Maria's and Trinity's story was, you know, it moves you when people are that brave. And of course, we wish them the best. And to Maria's point, recovery is not linear. Revisiting, and as a responsibility as a journalist, you feel this responsibility too. They revisited the story for a bigger good, but it took a toll on them as well.

And I think they wanna focus now on just moving forward. You wanna and Maria, it's a powerful, important story. Thank you both for sharing it with us. Thank you. Thank you. If you believe you or someone you know is a victim of exploitation, you can report it to cybertip.ca.