The Current - Being Canadian in the middle of a trade war

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

Former UN Ambassador Bob Rae and former Conservative cabinet minister Lisa Raitt reflect on what it means to be Canadian in the midst of a trade war with the US, and what the stakes are for our country as retaliatory tariffs come into effect.

My name is Siyaya and I live in the most beautiful place on earth. Seven months ago, I blew up my life and a lot has shifted since then. Everyone is moving forward. I'm still working on that. And that's me. Welcome to Ice Cove. Where are the penguins? That's Antarctica. We're the other one. North of North. Stream now on CBC Gem. This is a CBC podcast.

Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. In the midst of a mounting trade war with the United States, we are asking some big questions this morning. What does it mean to be Canadian right now? Who are we as a country? And where are we headed as a nation? And perhaps most importantly, how are you managing in this moment? We will be taking calls from you in 20 minutes,

but the phone lines are open now. The number to call right now is 1-888-416-8333-3. Again, that number is 1-888-416-8333. We want to hear from Canadians about how you are living through this moment and how you think about this country right now. While we take your calls, we're going to be joined by a couple of people who've spent their careers thinking deeply about these questions. Bob Ray is a former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations.

He's now a teacher and fellow at the University of Toronto. And Lisa Raid is a former Conservative Cabinet Minister and member of the Prime Minister's Advisory Committee on Canaan. Canada, U.S. Economic Relations. Good morning to you both. Morning. Good morning. Lisa, you are among the people who advised the Prime Minister on Canada-U.S. economic relations. So what do you make of the decision to leave trade talks last month? I think there is no other option on the table than to leave. The deadline was there. They were working hard at the table. But as the language was being drafted, it became apparent that they just

didn't have a meeting of the minds on what were some fundamental pieces, such as autos and specifically the truck matter. So really, the decision that was taken by the prime minister was the one that he had to take. What matters now is how do we proceed? And I'm of the view, and I may be in the minority of this, but I am of the view that it is better for us to try to get back to the table as quickly as possible to see whether or not the sticking points that came up in those last hours are ones that can be negotiated through. Is this a case where we just ran against a ticking clock that we couldn't get around? Or is it a case where we really don't have a possibility of getting a deal?

Prime Minister said that any deal would be written in pencil, not pen. So what would be the benefit of going back and trying to get a deal if that deal could be changed or ripped up or just ignored? That's one of the points, though, that was in contention. It was this notion that the United States retained the ability to impose the Section 33A tariffs at well, should they not like certain Canadian domestic policies that were passed. Definitely one of the things that you have to negotiate through and see if you can turn it into something else, water it down. It was a sunset clause last time we did this and could you find

other kind of remediation for the United States that would allow them to, to, you know, leave that position and move to something different that wasn't as insulting when it comes to our sovereignty. Bob, one of the things, I mean, again, it seems like policy in some ways by social media, but one of the things that the president posted on social media last night was about Bombarjay, saying that unless Bombarjay manufactures its airplanes in the United States, they can't sell planes in the U.S. Of course, Bombarjay has a number of plants in the U.S. right now. But on social media, you responded saying that the president is, in your words,

out to destroy our economy. His mania is now completely out. of control. Where does that leave us in the negotiations such as they are about trying to get back to the table? Well, I think that's the essential problem because it's not just a technical trade negotiation now. You have the president of the United States on a minute-by-minute basis, undermining the entire basis for the existence of our country, and saying things that are just completely out of touch with reality. I mean, the Bombardier examples, the classic.

Bombardier, first of all, you have Buy American. So when Bombardier made railway cars, they don't do that anymore, they had to build a factory in New York in order to be able to provide American cities with railway cars. And so the Buy America mentality has been there forever. Bombardier actually owns Learjet, which is made in. Wichita. They have suppliers for engines and every part of the aircraft in the United States. They have thousands of employees in the United States. If Bombardier were to be prevented from doing business in the United States, which is impossible. But if that fantasy were to be realized,

it would mean the unemployment of thousands, in fact, tens of thousands of American workers. I think we have to understand that the reason that it's not easy to get back to a table is who is going to be at the table. And what is the commitment of the United States to living within the boundaries of an agreement? And everything we've seen so far is there is no such commitment. The president imposes whatever he decides on one day or another. He passes an executive order declaring Lake Ontario

is no longer Lake Ontario. I mean, it's getting to be preposterous. and I think that's what has led the Prime Minister to decide, as he puts it, to let's see when the Americans are serious and we know what they're actually proposing. And we know the President supports what they're proposing and understands what they're proposing. Then it's possible to have a discussion. But until then, it's not. And yes, social media makes it harder. The President's outbursts make it harder.

Howard Lutnik's outbursts make it harder. All these things make it much more difficult. But we have to weather the storm. We have to resist. We cannot allow them to dictate the terms. Do retaliatory tariffs make it harder as well to get back to the table? Because presumably, I mean, the expectation is that the Trump administration will respond, but presumably personally, the president will take this as an insult.

No, I don't think the retaliatory, I don't think any tariff makes it a possible to get back to the table. Look, I mean, you don't have to like somebody you're negotiating with. You need to come to the conclusion that there's enough mutual damage being done that it makes sense to try to settle something. And that's ultimately what should happen. Whether it will or not, we have to recognize we're dealing with a pretty irrational force at the moment. And that's what makes it harder, but does not make it impossible. and I think we have the luck of a strong team and I think of a good leader in the prime minister

and a lot of support from Canadians for the strategy that's being followed. Lisa, Ray, this is going to hurt, and it's already hurting. There are jobs that are being lost. And I wonder from your perspective, how economically prepared we are to get into this. Yeah, so that's the, that is the point. You know, the big sector,

aluminum, steel, dairy, forestry, they're almost used to having these tariffs applied to them. It's been kind of the history for the past number of years. They understand what the government programs are. They know how to get them. They know how to apply them. And for them, it's a bit business as usual. It's going to hurt, but it's a bit business as usual.

On these Section 33A tariffs, the way that the Trump administration placed them, it's going after small and medium-sized businesses. it's over 25,000 of these businesses out there who don't have that knowledge of how to deal with a sudden impact of a 50% tariff on what they're selling across the border. In some cases, you know, it could be 70% of their total inventory is going to the United States. It is a real issue for the government to get their support programs

that they've announced into the hands of these small businesses before these small businesses decide, I'm just going to pack it up, I'm going to lay people off. or alternatively they're going to move their operations to the United States. And that's the reality of what we're facing right now. It's fine in the moment to say that we're going to retaliate to the 338s, but now we're going to invite a whole other host of other tariffs that are going to come in and impact businesses that may never have been impacted before.

All of that to say, I'm not saying that is not the right thing to do. I'm just saying you've got to understand that there are going to be some folks out there who employ six to seven people who make candles that are suddenly going to go, what just happened, and why am I taking the brunt of it? My name is Siyaya, and I live in the most beautiful place on earth. Seven months ago, I blew up my life, and a lot has shifted since then. Everyone is moving forward. I'm still working on that.

And that's me. Welcome to Ice Cove. Where are the penguins? That's Antarctica. We're the other one. North of North. Stream now on CBC Jam. Bob Ray, you wrote in the Toronto Star this weekend a piece about who we are. And this is one of the questions that we wanted to ask this morning.

We're going to open the phone lines to speak with Canadians across the country about who we are as Canadians in this moment. And you said, many Canadians still believe there's a deal to be done on trade, a deal that would preserve many of the features of Kuzma while instituting some minor changes in America's favor. This is a significant misread of what Trump is all about, that we have a chance in some ways to state what our country is for and what it stands against. So what is our country for in this moment, do you think? Well, I think above all, we're for solidarity, and I think that's what Lisa is describing.

If you look back at our history, we've been through very difficult moments, the Depression, two world wars. We've seen a lot of people sacrifice their lives in defense of what we thought was important as a nation. And we're now being asked to demonstrate the same degree of toughness in the face of an unprecedented, not only an economic attack, but a political attack on our sovereignty, on our identity.

And I think that that capacity for solidarity and for really supporting one another in the most difficult of circumstances is what we need. need to demonstrate at this moment. And I think that what Lisa was saying about the importance of getting support to the people who need it when they need it as quickly as they need it. We demonstrated

we could do that during COVID most recently. Many other countries did as well. It's possible for us to get through this and we will get through it. But we have to have the confidence that we can demonstrate the understanding

of the level of change and sacrifice that's being asked of Canadians at a very difficult moment. But we need to understand that the United States has really gone off the rails. And it isn't possible to negotiate a commercial deal as if nothing else was happening, as if we were dealing with a rational administration. Because we're not.

That's not who we're dealing with at the moment. This is one of the big questions that we want to ask Canadians. And again, the number to call is 1-888-416-8333. We'll be hearing from callers shortly, but the phone lines are now at 1-888-416-833-33. Lisa Rae, one of the things that we heard yesterday in talking about this, and I think it's a familiar sentiment, is that for better or worse, for a long time, a lot of our identity has been tied to our neighbors to the South as well as their economy, but also saying what we aren't in some ways, that we aren't their healthcare system, we aren't some of their values,

we aren't some of the ways that those values are, you know, we'll travel the world and we'll put the Canadian flag on the backpack to say that we are Canadian. What is the opportunity for Canada in this moment, do you think? Well, I think there's a good opportunity, but it really hinges upon people, it hinges on Canada being helped in this situation,

and here's my thought process on it. So I give you an example of one of the tariffs that we've applied, retaliation that is going to get the attention of a different demographic, of a much different generation, and that is on hair and makeup products. I was stunned this weekend when that was the topic of conversation with my nieces when I was at a family event. They actually clued into the fact that there was a tariff and trade war going on. It's not that they're not paying attention to the news, but they just are not interested in politics, as they call it. But now it got their attention.

Were they going to go to shoppers or Sephora and stock up on their favorite items coming across from the United States because they're going to get grossly expensive? We need to make sure that that group of folks understands why they're going to be making the sacrifice in their pocketbook for the greater good. The second part is for all of the countries out there who are telling our elected officials, boy, we wish we could do that like you're standing up to the United States, good for you. Well, they also have to stand up as well and they have to agree to take in more Canadian goods and have more Canadian sales. into their own countries and make it easier for us. If we're going to be the pointing end of the spear on all of this, then the other countries can do more than just cluck from the sidelines, saying, good for you, Canada.

They actually have to open their checkbook as well. Is there an opportunity, again, this phrase elbows up has been used over the course of the last year. Is there an opportunity for that to become something more than just a catchphrase, Lisa? I hope not. I don't enjoy that phrase, to be honest. No, I don't enjoy it. I think that is, it's one, it was great for the moment. It was understood in the moment, but now we really have to pivot into making sure that our economy is secured

and that it can continue into the long-term future. You know, the fight is at the beginning, but now we're entrenching, now we're digging in, and now we have to find other partners as well. It's more than just fighting the United States. It's transforming how we do business in Canada, which is a turning a battleship, as you know, really tough to do on a pin. Bob Ray, what do you make of that? Well, keeping your elbows up for a long time as you get older,

become more difficult. It's got realistic. I think, though, I think the opportunity is the key. I think we, for a long time, we grew complacent. I think we have to admit that as Canadians. We didn't spend enough

on our own defense. We didn't make, you know, there are things we didn't do that we should have done and now we need to do. And I think Canadians agree on some of these things. But on the economy, and it really is an opportunity for us to think more globally, as well as to think harder domestically.

We still have too many barriers to our internal trade. We still have too many walls up. I mean, we have my own province of Ontario, puts out ads saying, protect Ontario. No, help Canadians. That should be the message. Let's put walls up around our own province. That's not a good message. It's not a good thought process.

We need to be thinking nationally and internationally. And yes, we also need to be thinking. thinking practically about, you know, is there an opportunity to resolve this dispute with the United States if it's simply confined to the back and forth of trade? But when you listen to the president, you got to say, you know, he's talking about the dollar, he's talking about the environment, he's talking about our water, he's talking about our resources, you're talking about everything. You've got to understand there's an appetite there that it will not be satisfied by changing

a few things in a trade agreement. It's a much bigger problem than that. And that's something the American people are going to have to deal with. It also may not be satisfied or changed by changing the leader or a midterm election, for example. Well, we don't know. It'll have an impact. Politics will weigh in. Reality comes in.

And don't think that American businesses who are affected by what's happening are not talking to the White House and saying, what about this guys. Of course, there will be pressures on all sides to reach an agreement of some kind. But my point is we should not leap at finding a facile fix when, in fact, the challenges are much greater. And we need to come to terms with some of those challenges. But we can meet them. And there's no reason to be pessimistic or downhearted. It's important for us to provide enough sustainability and support for people that we can get through this together. And we will get through this together.

1888416-833-33 is the number. Before we get two calls from Canadians, I want to ask you both one question. And this is kind of the question that's at the heart of this. In this moment, Bob, how are you feeling about our identity as a nation, about who we are as Canadians? Oh, I feel great about it. I'm so proud to be a Canadian. And I sense a lot of that feeling across the country. The values that we have, the way in which we've lived our lives.

we have a lot to be proud of and a lot for us to be, I think, reminding each other of how we've gotten through difficult times in the past and we are going to get through this difficult time as well. I'm very confident in our identity, in our love for each other, in our celebration of our diversity and also in the power of our unity.

And I think these are the things that will sustain us in the days ahead. Lisa, what about for you? Again, we talk a lot about the division. divisiveness in our politics right now and in our civic discourse and beyond. But in this moment, personally, how are you feeling about what it means to be Canadian right now? Oh, very proud to be a Canadian. Obviously, I'm going to add a little bit of an open up a bracket on this and probably get your phones to light up and hate for me. But let me just put it this way.

It's one thing to say that you're a Canadian and you can be fiercely Canadian and wear the Maple Leaf and believe in our values, but you can also carry that with you when you live in another country. And my bigger fear is that, yes, generations of folks believe in being Canadian, but presented an opportunity to move to the United States where they can enjoy that economy or have more affordable housing or whatever the reasons may be. I do think we would see a lot of Canadians make the choice to move to the United States if it was barrier-free. And I know that's an unpopular thing to say, but I listen to younger generations. and they call themselves Canadians, they are Canadians, but they also, under 30, want to make a life for themselves

and wouldn't turn down the opportunity. And I think polling is going to actually bear that out. So you can be Canadian, but still live in another country, practice your Canadian values and take advantage of another economy that may be doing better in a perception-wise to your own economy here in the small town you live in. These are big questions. Really glad to have you both here to help tee up our conversation with Canadians. Thank you both.

Thanks. Thank you, Matt. Bob Ray, former Canadian ambassador to the United Nations. He's now a professor and teacher and fellow at the University of Toronto. Lisa Raitt, former Conservative Cabinet Minister, currently a member of the Prime Minister's Advisory Committee on Canada, U.S. Economic Relations. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.