The Current - Canada's energy minister on a future pipeline

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Tim Hodgson, federal energy and natural resources minister, weighs in on economic uncertainty surrounding the global energy crisis, financial relief for Canadians, building major projects, and the prospect of an Alberta-backed pipeline that is already facing pushback in British Columbia.

So when you were growing up, how would you have felt about having a famous parent? I mean, maybe your gut reaction is, oh, great. You know, get access, you get money. If you ask Dan Levy, who you might know from Schitt's Creek, he'll tell you that it wasn't what it was cracked up to be. In fact, it was a point of pain between him and his dad, the comedy legend, Eugene Levy. So Dan will tell you why he felt that way and how they worked through it.

Hear that conversation now. Just search for Q with Tom Power wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. It is a heck of a time to be an energy minister. There was a brief window late last week when it appeared that oil tanker traffic could start moving again through the Strait of Hormuz. People around the world breathed a cautious sigh of relief that gas prices and the price of just about everything else might stop climbing. That window and the strait itself appears to be closed again, meaning the energy crisis

continues. Here in Canada, consumers have been dealing with eye-watering prices of the gas pumps for weeks, the fact that drove inflation up to 2.4% last month. It is yet another big challenge facing Mark Carney's now majority government as it wrestles with other major economic headwinds, tries to push through its major projects agenda, and continue discussion with Alberta about a pipeline to the BC coast. Tim Hodgson is Canada's energy and natural resources minister. Minister Hodgson, good morning. Matt. Let's start with the Middle East, which is unsettled and unsettling, to say the very least. People have been paying extraordinary amounts for gas and diesel across this country,

and your government paused the federal fuel excise tax. But what is your sense? Where do you see fuel prices going in the next few weeks and months? So, Matt, that's a great question. And I'll start by just saying that Canada condemns any blocking of the Straits of Hormuz, which obviously violates the UN Convention of the Law of the Seat. And Canadians know that oil prices are set globally. We can't control what is happening as Hedgeamonds battle things out around the world. What we can control is what we do here in Canada. So we've reduced gas taxes considerably.

We took off the consumer carbon tax, the first. first thing that we did. We've eliminated the federal excise tax, as you know, through Labor Day. That results in a 28 cent liter reduction in the price of gasoline. That's how we're focusing on affordability in this situation. We will continue to monitor what's happening in the Middle East. The prime minister and Minister Anand are very focused. And Canada will do everything it can to contribute to a reduction of hostilities, getting the straits open again, getting energy resources flowing again, and that will help at the pump. But your sense is that those prices, I mean, again, to your point, there are things that we can't control. And so controlling those prices may be out of our hands, that those prices are going to stay high for the foreseeable future.

So I wish I could predict the future, but we have to assume that the way hegemon's are behaving around the world isn't going to change. As the prime minister says, nostalgia is not a strategy. We need to deal with the world the way it is, not the way we wish it to be. And so I think we need to plan for this challenging world that we live in right now. You weren't the finance minister, but will there be further relief for Canadians? The price of everything is going up. Will there be further relief in the spring economic update coming next week? Well, I'm not the finance minister,

and I certainly wouldn't scoop Minister Champagne, but I can assure Canadians that affordability is very much on his mind. We did cut taxes for 22 million middle class Canadians is one of our first significant bills. We have eliminated the goods and services tax on first-time home buyers. We've canceled, as I said, the consumer carbon tax. We've launched the Canada Groceries and Essentials Benefit, which will save a family of four up to $1,800 a year in grocery bills.

And the first checks, I understand, are going to hit people's bank account on July 5th. and you should expect that type of continued focus on the part of Minister Champagne and the government on affordability. How has the war in the Middle East changed how you think about your job as energy minister? Well, I would say what we saw very quickly is that energy security is national security. and whether it's what happened in Europe as a result of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine and what that did to energy markets around the world or whether it's this current iteration of challenges, what we found is our allies are desperate. for a reliable, predictable, rules-based provider of energy. And as they look around the world, whether it's our conversations with our friends in Germany or France

or the UK or Japan or Korea or the new dialogues that we've been having with India and other countries, they all look at Canada as a solution. to a very challenging world right now. And that is an opportunity for Canada. That's an opportunity for Canada to step up in the world. That's an opportunity for Canada to lead. And it's an opportunity for us to strengthen our situation.

As we sell more of our energy to allies around the world, that puts cards in our hand in a very challenging situation we have coming up with the Kuzma negotiations. And so you have been front and center on this federal major projects strategy. And part of that is what's known as the Building Canada Act, which would essentially fast track something like a pipeline through the regulatory process. The conservatives have said that you haven't used that yet. They've criticized you for not using that,

designating a project of national interest under the Building Canada Act. Is that something that you think you would use? Canadians might be wondering whether a pipeline would get that fast track. Is that something that act? Is that something that you would use? So, you know, what I'd say is we have been building pipes, and we just approved the Taylor to Gordendale Pipeline from northeastern B.C. into Alberta. That will deliver more diluent to Canada.

Right now we rely on other countries for our diluent to make sure we can move our oil. That pipeline is going to significantly reduce our use of foreign diluent. So we are building again. And we will use the Build Canada Act when we need to use the Act. What I would say to your listeners is I could go across the country and I could go through every province and talk about projects that are now being built because of the focus of this government, whether it's the $8 billion that's now going into the base in Goose Bay,

whether it's the transmission lines between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, whether it's new aluminum smelters in Saginae and Quebec, whether it's the new Darlington nuclear reactor outside Toronto, I could keep going across the country because of this focus of our government, because of the tools we're putting in place, this country is building again. But there are concerns, and this is specifically about a pipeline from Alberta to the BC coast, There are concerns that are now being raised from some in that industry. There was a survey done by ATB Cormac capital markets of energy producers

and people who are involved in the energy sector about whether that pipeline will actually be built. One of those who was surveyed said people are losing faith, that the liberal government will actually fix any of the structural problems they created over the last 10 years. What would you say to people who wonder whether they should have faith in your government to build that pipeline? Well, what I would say is when you, I think you had Premier Smith on last week. We did. And I think she would say she's never been as optimistic about the ability of the federal government and the Alberta government to work constructively together to build Canada.

As your listeners may know, Alberta has said they will bring a proposal to build. to build a new pipeline by July of this year. And we have said when they bring that forward, we will evaluate it against the criteria in the Build Canada Act. And if they meet that criteria, which include building with indigenous peoples and with the support of the local jurisdictions, then we will support that initiative.

So I would say Premier Smith's pretty close to what's going on, and Premier Smith's quite optimistic. I would say we're quite optimistic as well. So when you were growing up, how would you have felt about having a famous parent? I mean, maybe your gut reaction is, oh, great, you know, get access, you get money. If you ask Dan Levy, who you might know from Schitt's Creek, he'll tell you that it wasn't what it was cracked up to be. In fact, it was a point of pain between him and his. dad, the comedy legend Eugene Levy. So Dan will tell you why he felt that way and how they

worked through it. Here are that conversation now. Just search for Q with Tom Power wherever you get your podcasts. When we were in Calgary, speaking with Premier Smith, we also spoke with Alex Purbe, who's the board chair at Sinovis and Deborah Yedlin, who's the CEO of the Calgary Chamber of Commerce. We were on stage at a huge event talking about the future of those major projects. Have a listen to what they said about those projects. There's an increased push for diversity of supply by countries that have relied on the Gulf states in that region for their oil and for their natural gas. And so Canada has a generational opportunity to move up, move quickly, and to be able to produce what the world needs. This pipeline has no route, no port as of yet. There is no private proponent for it.

The Premier of British Columbia has said, in his words, it is a fantasy bitumen project. What are the chances that this thing actually gets built? Well, I think that we have to think about in the context of what we can do for the world rather than succumb to internal squabbles. And I think Canada is seen as a secure, stable country that can supply the world with what it needs. And quite frankly, the BC government needs to understand that to obfuscate this is at the expense of the country and actually at the expense of global stability.

Tim Hodgson, that kind of message went over very well with our audience in Calgary. A lot of applause there. But how do you see a path forward through those internal squabbles that Deborah Yedlin mentioned, particularly if the Premier British Columbia says that this is a fantasy pipeline? So here's what I know, Matt. I'm new to politics. But I had the privilege of sitting around the first minister's table in Saskatoon. And what I saw was a federal government,

united with the 13 provinces and territories that we need to build. We need to do things differently in the face of a trade war that's been declared on us, one that we didn't ask for. You think David Evey will get online with a pipeline? So what I would say, Matt, is there was a lot of debate about the TMX pipeline when it was going to be built. People said we did. didn't need it. People said it wouldn't fill up. People said there would be no customers for it. What I can tell you is that pipeline is full today. That pipeline is providing Canadian oil produced in the most responsible way possible to our allies around the world who are desperate for it

and who are asking for more of it. That oil coming off the West Coast gets a world price, a Brent price, which is set in world markets, not a WTI price, which is set by the Americans. It is a higher price. It is a better price for Canadian resources. When we ship oil off the West Coast, we can sell it to the world. That is good for Canada. And that's a message that you think David E.B., the Premier of British Columbia, is receptive to? I think Premier Eby is focused on making sure what's done is good for British Columbia. What the prime minister has been very clear and is part of the MOU is any pipeline would require the support of the local jurisdiction. And there's a provision in the MOU where the federal government, Alberta and B.C. would work together to make sure that condition was met.

It is also a pipeline that, to your point, needs the consent and the support of local First Nations. And so if coastal First Nations continue to say, as they have said, that a pipeline to the BC coast is a no, and that their words are, a no is a no. What does that mean? What are you going to do? So what I say to everyone is let's not have hypothetical conversations. There is no route today, as you pointed out. The proponent is yet to come forward with a proposed route, with a proposed relationship with indigenous peoples. And I think, you know, the prime minister has said,

and I think this is really important for Canadians, when we are faced with the world we are in, when we are faced with a trade war. The question is not if we should build, but how we should build. And the prime minister has been very clear. When we build, we will build an environmentally responsible way, and we will do it in partnership with indigenous peoples.

Coastal First Nations have said no. They have said no is a no. That is the phrase that they're using. You know, Matt, Matt, as I said before, I'm not going to talk about hypotheticals. We don't know where it's going. The proponent has not come forward. Canadians don't want us to find reasons to not build big things anymore.

We are in a trade war. We are faced with existential threats to our country. It's not about if anymore. It's how. And we need to do it the right way. The prime minister has been very clear. We will do it the right way. We will do it so it benefits all Canadians.

That's how we build here. That's how we unite. We're not going in this in this world we're in. We're not going to prosper as a country. If we figure out how to fight amongst ourselves, we're going to prosper as a country when we come together and say, how do we do things the right way? And so if they say no, would the government force that pipeline through?

We've been clear. We're not going to, we're not going to build. pipelines when there's not indigenous support. We are working with Alberta and British Columbia, and we will make sure that any proposed pipeline has indigenous support. You talked about building an environmentally sustainable and a pipeline that takes in environmental considerations. And your government has shifted its stance on previous liberal climate policies,

including the consumer carbon tax, the EV sales mandate. The Canadian Climate Institute, put out a report recently saying that Canada isn't on track to meet any of its emissions targets, not even the goal to achieve net zero by 2050. What do you say to people who say that these goals can't, that they're incompatible in some ways, that you can't build more pipelines if we are, if we broadly as a nation are concerned about climate change? So this government is committed to net zero. The prime minister has been very clear about that. We will get to net zero by 2050. Every country.

is being challenged to get there. What the prime minister has also been clear about is we are not going to shrink our way to net zero. We are going to grow our way to net zero. We're going to use technology to get to net zero. I had the privilege of serving on the board of one of the major oil sands producers earlier in my life. And I watched as that company deployed Canadian technology,

Canadian know-how to reduce the carbon intensity of every barrel it produced by 30% over the time I was on the board. And so you believe it's possible to produce more oil and gas and to ship it out and meet Canada's climate commitments? I believe we will use technology. We will find technology so that we can responsibly produce our resources and get to net zero. Yes. Minister, I have to let you go. But how, in the context of all of this, how should Canadians measure your success? There's a commitment to build. There is a commitment, as you've said, to do big things. How should people measure that success?

So the prime minister's put out some pretty clear. We call them KPIs in business, key performance indicators. He has said the major projects office will attract $500 billion. of private sector capital to the Canadian economy. If we can attract $500 billion of new investment, we will be building and creating jobs for Canadians, by Canadians, and we will be giving ourselves something

that no other country can take away from us. He has been clear that we need to double our non-U.S. exports. We need to grow our way to a place where our economic integration with the United States can't be weaponized. against us. And he has been clear that we need to get to a good working relationship with provinces and territories. That means one project, one review. We now have a one project, one review agreement with seven different provinces. We are working on getting them with all the

provinces and territories. This will help us get big things done. Those are the things that I would be focused on. Tim Hodgson, we will speak again, hopefully, as those big things move forward. In the meantime, good to have you on the program this morning. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot, Matt. And thanks for everything that you're doing at the current. Tim Hodgson, is Canada's Minister of Energy and Natural Resources.

He was in Ottawa. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.