The Current - Canadian veterans forges new identities in culinary world

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

About 30 veterans have graduated so far from Le Cordon Bleu culinary school in Ottawa, thanks to a Veterans Affairs Canada education and training benefit. Graduates Frank Ouellette and Melissa Paris share how cooking has helped them heal, find purpose and move forward after their military service. 

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Serving in the Armed Forces is both a career and a lifestyle, and for many, it's also an identity. And so when the time comes to transition from military to civilian life, it's often not easy. For the past few years, though, dozens of Canadian veterans have taken that leap by exchanging serving their country

to serving up fine French cuisine. I'm making duck a la roche today. So this is our final exam practice. Those are turnips. I'm making those soft because I've got to turn those into a puree. And those are turnips as well, just in an orange sauce. And that's going to be the garnish. And my duck is in the oven right there.

There we go. That's Dean Brackness working on his duck a la orange at Le Cordon Bleu in Ottawa. It's the only North American campus at his duck a l'orange at Le Cordon Bleu in Ottawa. It's the only North American campus at the famed French Culinary Institute. Dean retired in 2016 after more than 20 years with the Royal Canadian Navy. I wanted to see the world. I had an insatiable desire for adventure. I've been to almost all the seven seas with the Navy. The big thing was soon after the Tyros fell on September 11th, in December

my ship was gone to the Persian Gulf. And later on in my career I was deployed to the Gulf of Aden off the coast of Somalia doing anti-piracy, then off the coast of South America doing anti-drug operations. So I had a wide and varied career. And in 2016 I said, you know what, it's time to do something else. So I went into the private sector for a number of years. And then for some reason, I decided to do this again. And here I am sweating again and wearing a white uniform that's not totally clean right now. But, you know, but I know, at least I know how to iron it. Just like my uniforms right back in the day. It turns out that wearing a crisply pressed uniform isn't the only similarity that Dean found between the military and culinary worlds.

The training system here is a lot like the military, right? The French have designed their kitchens and stuff. They've designed it on a military system where you have the chef, you have the sous-chef, just like a company in the army, right? So, you know, you've got to make your timings here, you've got to show up on time, you've got to you know, you got to make your timings here, you got to show up on time, you got to take notes, you got to perform. And even though I'm in my 50s, I still have someone

over me looking at me with a clipboard judging my performance. So I knew I was in for it when my first class day, I was doing the julienne cuts on my vegetables, and they brought out the ruler to measure. So I knew that was serious, but it's really rewarding. Now I just got to go get my duck. And the best thing is we get to take it home. I'll be right back. Dean Brackness isn't the only veteran who gets the added benefit of class leftovers. About 30 former forces members have trained at Le Cordon Bleu in Ottawa, thanks to a Veterans Affairs education and training benefit. And our guests this morning are graduates of that program.

Melissa Parris is in our Ottawa studio. She spent 21 years in the forces. And Frank Ouellette is in our Fredericton studio. He spent nearly 15 years in the military. Good morning to you both. Good morning. It's great to have you here. Melissa, can you tell me what it was that attracted you to the military?

Why did you want to serve? Well, there was a history of military service in my family. My father was 22nd Regiment, and I enrolled from Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. I had an interest in the physicality of it, but also all the benefits that they gave for education as well as travel. For me, I had a big desire to travel and I did see the world with the military. Frank, what about for you? What was the path for you to serving? My path started in high school when I joined the reserves. Initially, I wanted to see if I was actually going to like it as this was a choice that I told myself in the fourth grade that, hey, I'm going to go in the army. And so following on that and with the reserves,

I fell absolutely in love with the job as an infantilier and transferred over to Reg Force and went to military college after that. You both have some similarities in how your military careers came to an end. You were both medically discharged after struggling with PTSD. And I was wondering if I might ask you about that, Melissa, just in terms of what you're comfortable in talking about. But tell me a little bit about what led to your discharge from the forces. Absolutely. I went to Afghanistan, Kandahar, twice.

First tour was about three months, and that wasn't too bad. Second tour I deployed with the RCR. I was their company clerk and I spent approximately eight and a half months in the Panjwai region. So Sproingar, the patrol base over there. There wasn't a lot of females on the camp, so that was very difficult. But also the constant fear and also the things I saw there, just the difficulties that people, the human suffering. And finally, what really kind of, what, yeah, at the end it was grief. You know, losing so many friends.

And then when we came back from that mission, I was enrolled at the military college. I was selected under the non-commissioned member training, university training plan. So as soon as I got back from Afghanistan, my last tour, I started RMC for four years. And I just never decompressed. I just started school right away, RMC, which is its own challenge. It felt like I never left Afghanistan, like I'm sure a lot of my peers that live that experience. We brought Afghanistan home with us. that lived that experience, we brought Afghanistan home with us. So just a constant stress and keep pushing, keep pushing,

and never taking a knee, as we say in the Army, never taking a break and to pause. The last thing I will say is back then, you know, resilience training and that sort of thing wasn't popular. It is now. But back then they didn't really train us how to handle our minds, per se. So we just took on the stress and didn't really have a coping mechanism on how to deal with letting go of that stress. So, yeah. How are you doing now? Now I'm doing really well. Yeah. Yeah. I got medically released in 2018, so it's been a while. When I got released, I was really sick, to be honest. I was sent to a

treatment center in Kelowna, BC, which really saved my life. It was a fabulous program, solely focused on PTSD. I regained my strength and my life there. And coming back from there, to tie in the culinary world, we had a nutritionist with us on the program, and I learned that not only food was, you know, good for our bodies and that sort of thing, but also food is medicine. And through food, I managed to heal myself quite a bit. I've always been a foodie, but I started cooking only when I was released. And through food, I found a new purpose. It's my biggest coping mechanism. When I was having some really bad days, I would cook, and that would really help me gain control and be grounded again. I'm really glad that you found that.

Frank, what about for you? I just wonder whether what Melissa has said sounds familiar in terms of what led to your discharge. Absolutely. I can see a lot of myself in what she described. So what led to my medical release? I fell into a burnout, severe depression followed, or hand-in-hand, I should say. I should say, but that's a lead up of, again, not decompressing, a lack of personnel, needing to pick up, wearing six hats when you're just supposed to be wearing one kind of thing, and eventually just caught up and it was too much. And I was told that I was going to be medically released on high risk.

There's nothing I could do about it. But the lead up to that for me comes way back to 2012. I was sent down to Colombia for a course. And there are things that got a bit out of hand, just sort of like in the movies. People die. There was a lot of chaos on the course. The patrols, we always had real grenades, real bullets, in case we would actually come in contact with the rebel forces down there. It was an actual, live, real threat all the time.

The people that lost their lives is just not something that, it's something that stuck. All that fear, the way things are different down there, it came back with me. And at the same time, I feel there's a portion of me that got dropped and left in the jungle that never came back, we'll say. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs.

We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. I said that being in the military is a career, but it really is also part of your identity. How hard was it to transition of that for you, Frank?

of your identity. How hard was it to transition of that for you, Frank? It's still a process today. I've been out for four years now, and I still struggle with things on a daily basis, we'll say. What do you mean? Maybe like the shift in mentality where you're used to being in the military, everything's always pedal to the metal, the attitude, the personality needs to go with it. And now you're more on a softer side of things we'll say on the civvy side where well people treat each other differently and it's it's just a switch in mindset that needs to be done where hey i'm not in the army anymore but since it was a lifestyle

for so long and it becomes who you are that part of you can't get rid of it another part of you doesn't want to get rid of it but it's just that finding that soft spot between your new life and your old life, that's not always easy. What about for you, Melissa? Was it difficult, I'll use Frank's language here, to embrace the civvy style and the civvy lifestyle? Well, I think Frank said it perfectly, and I totally agree with him. It was very difficult for me. When you get that medical release notice, it's not that... I was 38 when I was released, so I still had lots in the tank. Yeah, like you're forced out. And I joined when I was 18. I did the reserves like Frank when I... That's how I started

my career. That's a long time, a large part of your life. Exactly. I was still in high school when I joined. So overnight, you wake up and you don't know who you are anymore. You look yourself in the mirror and I was like, okay, like, who am I? Is that literally how you felt? Yes. I didn't even look the same. Everybody that knows me, that was my biggest complaint. I looked myself in the mirror in the morning. I was like, I don't know who you are anymore.

But obviously the PTSD played a huge part in that. The biggest thing I want to say today is that transitioning is not easy, whether it's for whether it's your medically release or not. And like Frank said, it's so ingrained in us. For everyone out there that are going through transition, it's important that they think about it. And also they talk about it, discuss how they feel throughout with their families, with their friends. And the good news is there's so many services and there's so many tools out there now, including the Education Training Benefit ThruVac, that can truly help military folks transition out. So after I was released, I jumped into the wellness sector because my background is psychology. So I was doing some coaching and

some resilience coaching, that sort of thing. And that's what helped me transition out was helping others. That's why I joined. I wanted to help and serve. So I helped through that. And then that's where I started doing the cooking at Cordon Bleu. I wanted to push and be able to serve my family and friends and be able to cook for them. Did you say that you only started cooking? So you never cooked before? No. No, actually, it's funny. My mother is always fascinated because I just, honestly, I had no time. Like, I was so busy. I never sat down.

But the fascinating thing is I've always been a foodie. So I've eaten at five-star Michelin, you know. The fancy restaurants. Yeah, like Michelin star restaurants. I've been all over the world. I've been to Paris. You know, I've eaten some of the most amazing, at some of the most amazing tables,

but I did not know how to cook myself. So when I got released, I thought, okay, well, after my treatment, I really learned how to cook there because we had to cook for ourselves. And that's where I really, I found a huge passion for cooking and clean eating, that sort of thing. What about for you, Frank? Were you a big home cook? Oh, I was.

So when I got to Valcartier in 2012, that's when I started cooking, we'll say for survival. And then I told myself, hey, might as well make it fun. So I started looking around online, YouTube mostly, masterclasses, fell on Gordon Ramsay. Then I was like, oh, this is French cuisine. Okay. So then it just launched off from there. So forward seven years in 2019, I started a at-home catering chef. I don't want to call it a business because it's not big. It's more of a hobby, we'll say.

I kept catering for people while I was in the Army. At that point, I had already been announced that I was on a medical release. So I kind of started driving that ship towards the culinary world and just practicing, taking more online classes, anything and everything I could. I started having big parties, like 16 people, five-course meals at my house, just cooking for people and having a blast. Lucky them. Yeah, right.

And that's where I saw that I really had a passion for cooking. It was my thing. It was something I could do that I felt like I was a natural at. So for me, it was a no-brainer to go to culinary school once I was being released, we'll say. So what was nice there is that on my last six months in the forces, I was on a voc rehab program. So I was able to go work wherever I wanted to in town. So I chose to work in a restaurant at Brew Bakers in Fredericton. That was a fantastic experience. And also the chef, Jay Rosado, is also French trained, so he got me ready for school once I got accepted at Le Cordon Bleu.

Did you see, I mean, we heard earlier this idea that there's a similarity in some ways between the military and culinary school. Dean Brackness was talking about that. Absolutely. And it's part of the uniform, but also how kitchens are organized. Do you say absolutely? Yeah. So after the First World War, I believe, it was August Escoffier that brought the brigade

system to the culinary world, amongst other things like preservation, canning, all that stuff. But Chef Escoffier was drafted to the military, got the system, brought it back, implemented it. And from there, it got very militarized, we'll say in that sense. So it's like you're leaving one family to come back and sort of like the same family. I've seen on your Instagram, some of the things that you've been cooking, Frank. One is a brownie Nutella Basque cheesecake with creme anglaise.

Yes. I would like that. What is your, what's the favorite thing that you've learned how to prepare? My, I have to say that my favorite protein or favorite thing to prepare is duck. It's very versatile, and just the taste is just out of this world for me. What about for you, Melissa? Well, it's interesting because I'm a pescatarian, so I don't really eat meat. So I learned how to prepare it from my family. But for me, my specialty is curries, Chinese noodles.

Where do you see this taking you? I mean, you now have the cooking bug. You didn't cook before. Now you're all in. Well, I did this for my own personal gain and for my own knowledge. It's going to take me to my friends and my family. They are the lucky recipients of this. Yeah, absolutely.

I have some really good friends. and my family. They are the lucky recipients of this. Yeah, absolutely. I have some really good friends, Geneviève and Léchek. They have a beautiful cottage. And a couple of weeks ago, I went over there and I cooked for three couples. That's pretty much the extent of my... Because I do get stressed easily still.

But for me, it was more so to take away the stress from working in the kitchen. Like I said, I cooked and I enjoy it, but I wasn't efficient. And I just had a hard time doing two things at once. My brain just couldn't manage that. So Cordon Bleu helped me know how to use my kitchen properly.

And that's part of that healing process that you were talking about earlier. Exactly. Yeah, like before Cordon Bleu, I was told by many medical specialists that my brain was pretty injured. And like just I wouldn't think the same or I wouldn't learn the same. And Cordon Bleu was a huge challenge for me. I wanted to see if I was able to do it. That was the biggest thing. And some people enrolled right away for the diploma,

but me it was just the basic. And then through the basic I said, yeah, I think I can keep going. So I did the intermediate. So the flexibility of that gave me some control and took away my anxiety. Was it difficult? I mean, the kitchen's a noisy place and it's a busy place. And I mean, it's not just the cliches of chefs yelling at people. Like there's a lot going on, right? Was that difficult given what you were dealing with with PTSD? For myself, yes. I won't lie.

It was very difficult. That's why I needed some accommodation. Sometimes I had to leave the kitchen to just take a breath, just to bring down my nervous system. You know, you've got knives, you've got heat, oil, fire going. So my nervous system was definitely activated. And this is as far as I didn't do the superior, because I knew superior would be too much for me.

But what I've accomplished, I was really proud and happy that I did. Like Frank was saying, you meet a new type of family there and it truly is like the military with the discipline and the teamwork. For that, I really enjoyed it. Can you imagine where you'd be without this?

I don't think so. It brought back so much confidence in me. I know that I can do things now that I thought I wasn't able to. So moving forward, I know that I can do more than what I thought. This is a really important program for folks like yourselves who, as I said, have transitioned out of a career and an identity and a lifestyle. What are you thinking about?

I mean, it's Remembrance Day as we're talking. So what are you thinking about on this day, given what you've been through but also where you are now, Frank? Actually, this was a conversation that I was having with one of my friends last night. I realized that this year is the first year where it's, we'll call it a busy period in my head, but it's not negative, it's not chaos or bad things. We'll say it's mostly out of remembering the guys,

the nice experiences we've had, the good stuff. There's a shift this year for me, which is fantastic, I have to say. What about for you, Melissa? I like to hear that, Frank. It's the same for me. For the last few years, Remembrance Day was very difficult.

Even some, I couldn't even go to a ceremony because I can't hear the gunshots or those sort of things. Even the music that's being played reminds me of ramp ceremonies. So very difficult. But this year, I feel a lot better, and I'm even going to go with my husband,

actually, on Remembrance Day to the Cenotaph this year and give it a shot. I'm going to bring some earplugs. But I think I can manage the crowd, and we have a plan, but yeah, same here. That's awesome. I'm really glad to talk to you both.

Your friends and family are lucky to have you around, not just because you're great people, but also because you're great chefs and you can feed them. But the program has been really, really helpful to both of you as well and to others. Thank you for talking to us. Thank you. Thank you.

Take care of yourselves. Thank you. Melissa Paris and Frank Ouellette are both veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces and graduates of Le Cordon Bleu, the Culinary Arts Institute in Ottawa. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.