The Current - Carney unveils his cabinet. Is it the change Canadians want?

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Prime Minister Mark Carney’s cabinet has two dozen new faces, but Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre says the presence of some Trudeau-era ministers looks like “more of the same.” Can Carney reassure Canadians that he’s bringing the change they voted for? Matt Galloway takes the political pulse with the CBC’s Rosemary Barton and Kathleen Petty and the Globe and Mail's Stephanie Levitz.

How did the internet go from this? You could actually find what you were looking for right away, bound to this. I feel like I'm in hell. Spoiler alert, it was not an accident. I'm Cory Doctorow, host of Who Broke the Internet from CBC's Understood. In this four-part series, I'm going to tell you

why the internet sucks now, whose fault it is, and my plan to fix it. Find who broke the internet on whatever terrible app you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Our government will deliver its mandate for change with urgency and determination. We're going to deliver that mandate with a new team, purpose-built, for this hinge moment in Canada's history. This cabinet is smaller and more focused than those of previous governments. It will operate with a commitment to true cabinet government, with everyone expected

and empowered to show leadership. Prime Minister Mark Carney unveiled his new cabinet yesterday and shared a bit of his government's plans for what that government will do once they're back in parliament. To help us understand who is in, who is out, and what happens now, we have convened our national affairs panel. Stephanie Levitz, senior reporter for the Globe and Mail's Ottawa Bureau. Rosemary Barton is the CBC's chief political correspondent and host of Rosemary Barton Live. And Kathleen Petty is the host of CBC's Alberta at Noon and the West of Centre podcast.

Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Good morning. Rosie, we'll talk about who is in and who is out in a moment. But just briefly for us as we start, what did the Prime Minister need to do with this announcement? He needed to show that the party looks different, that the change that Canadians thought they were buying into with Mark Carney as a different kind of leader with different set of priorities is reflected around that table.

And he needed to try and find a way to keep some of the experience that was there to deal with, most notably Donald Trump. Did he strike that balance? Ish. You know, like, I think if you were looking for change, you saw it. There's a lot of new faces around the table, a lot of older faces who didn't make it back. And if you were wanting to be reassured, you saw some of that too in people like Anita Onond and Melanie Jolie and Dominique LeBlanc. Steph, pick up on that. What message is Carney trying to send here, do you think? What he's working on is trying to send a message of a focused cabinet, right?

That in his view is aligned with what he sees as the key priorities for his government, absolutely economics, absolutely dealing with Trump, absolutely trade. I mean, if you unpack some of the new titles given to ministers, there seemed to be some overlap between Minister Dominic LeBlanc is in charge of one Canadian economy, Christopher Freeland is in charge of internal trade, like these seem like similar things. But it's his economic message that's the thing. And I thought a lot about, you know, the day that Justin Trudeau was sworn in with his majority government in 2015. And he was he made a

big show of gender parity. And he was asked why. And he said, Well, because it's 2015. And all day yesterday, I was looking for that phrase, right? What was Mark Carney going to say that was going to become a defining feature that could become a defining feature. And it was the build now. I think that's the theme of this cabinet, trying to build something forward, whether he achieves it or whether that's a slogan that comes back to bite him. I guess we'll see. Kathleen, did you hear that key phrase to Steph's point that will define this cabinet

from a distance? Well, I think the message he's sending is we're going to roll up our sleeves and get things done, which is ambitious, and I think most people can see that's what it is. But once you've done that, then the expectations are set. So he has raised expectations, I would argue substantially. And if we're talking about the cabinet in particular, is this the cabinet that can deliver that? And I take Rosie's point that there's lots of new people, but a lot of the key ministers in the key portfolios are still part of the Trudeau team,

and part of the book on the Trudeau team, at least in recent years, was they weren't getting stuff done. They announced a lot, but they didn't do a lot. So I think people are going to see whether this is a do-a-lot government. Rosie, the Prime Minister said this is a purpose-built cabinet. Who's on the front bench? So Kathleen's right. I mean if you're looking for the front bench to see change you're not necessarily going to see a lot of it there. Dominique LeBlanc, as Steph

pointed out, is the Minister in charge of a new category of Canada-U.S. trade, that one economy, and intergovernmental affairs. François-Philippe Champagne is in charge of finance and the national revenue agency. They put those two together, which I'm told makes a lot more sense than what it did. Anita Onin is the minister of foreign affairs. Melanie Jolie is the minister of industry, which will deal with a lot of these areas that have had tariffs. So some of those people are definitely familiar faces. I guess I think we need to see whether the prime minister's very ambitious agenda propels them to work differently than it did under Justin Trudeau.

This is a different kind of leader and he made it pretty clear what his expectations in that clip were for these ministers too. Like they've got to perform and I don't get the impression that this is a person, a leader who's incredibly patient with people who underperform. So I suspect if they don't do that they won't be in those jobs very long. He added a couple new faces to key portfolios. Gregor Robertson, the former mayor of Vancouver is in charge of housing. This fellow named Tim Hudson is in charge of Enercan, which is very important developing

new energy projects. There's a little bit of new blood in that front bench, but I think given the moment we're in dealing with Donald Trump, some of those old faces had to stay given the relationships that they have south of the border. Steph, the phone does not ring for everyone and some people are inevitably left out. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith was briefly the housing minister. He's now out of cabinet entirely. He wrote on social media, it is impossible not to feel disrespected. What do you make of that? Yeah, I mean, that's why cabinet making is called

an art, not a science, right? Like art is very subjective and everybody thinks there's a lot of MPs through every single government who think if only I were in cabinet, I could make a difference, right? And I think the funny thing though, I mean, it has to be said, Mark Carney became prime minister scant weeks ago

and he did swear in a new cabinet. And you have to wonder with those people that are no longer there, Nader, Smith among them, well, then what was that a few weeks ago? What was that supposed to do? What message was that supposed to send to them? And then when you look at the cabinet that was sworn in yesterday, if you're a Nader, Smith, or you're someone who didn't make the cut, and you're saying, well, what does this tell me about how I get into cabinet? Right? I mean, we talk a lot about Mr.

Carney's focus on the economy, but in this cabinet, it was also highly political, Matt. There are a lot of political choices there. You know, some made in pushback to criticism he received with his original cabinet, not having official languages, for example, specifically in the portfolio of the newly styled heritage minister, dropping a minister for women and gender equality, he brought that back. There's a nod to some of the issues that were successful for the conservatives, like crime and cost of living with a secretary of state responsible for combating crime. So my point is if you're Nate and you think, well, what was I brought in to do six weeks ago and why wasn't that good enough now, there's no clear answer.

Some of the politics, Kathleen, is in regional distribution and making sure that the entire country feels heard and seen. Um, from Edmonton, you have Eleanor Olszewski, who is made minister of emergency management and community resilience and minister responsible for Perry's economic development, Canada. Given everything, and we'll talk more about, um,

Danielle Smith and separation in a moment, but given everything that's going on in Alberta and Saskatchewan and Manitoba and parts of British Columbia as well, what message do you think that's intended to send to the West showing regional distribution? Well, someone's always going to have a complaint about it.

Let me just say that upfront. It's pretty much guaranteed. I mean, I'll point out Scott Moe congratulated Buckley Belanger, right, who got Secretary of State for Rural Development. There's been nothing about Eleanor Ryszewski and her appointment for energy management and prairie economic development, which I found notable. And then there were complaints about the fact that there were two liberals elected in Alberta. The other one was a Calgary liberal MP and a riding that does not vote liberal, trust me.

So it was a bit of a surprise win. And the complaint was, Calgary is the fourth largest city in the country. And the last time Calgary had an MP in cabinet in a liberal government was Ken Hare in 2015 and before that it was in 1972. So you know there was so as much as there is sort of friction between Alberta and the rest of the country, there's friction within Alberta as well in terms of what the representation should look like. Hey there, I'm David Common. If you're like me there are things you love about

living in the GTA and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This is Toronto we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, the news you gotta know and the conversations your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighbourhood or while sitting in the parking lot that is the 401, check out This Is Toronto, wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you think, I mean, Mark Carney, the Prime Minister is from Edmonton, I mean, spent a lot of time in Edmonton, grew up in Edmonton. Do you think that beyond those divisions within the province itself, is there a sign that he is listening? Is there a sense, Kathleen, that he is paying attention to the angst that's unfolding there? Well, I think certainly with the appointment of Tim Hodgson, it got sort of universal reaction. I will point out though that the provincial government didn't respond to his appointment

They only responded to the who was appointed as environment minister. That was very much the focus of Daniel Smith and her chief of staff because that they essentially argue that Julie de Bruyne is is Stephen Gilbo 2.0 and another keep it in the ground as they put it environment minister and her chief of staff wrote fire meet gas but they said nothing about Hodgson whereas the industry had a lot of great things to say about Hodgson

I think has been reported that he served on the board of Meg Energy and Meg is one of the companies within the Pathways Alliance. And she talked to board members who worked with him and they remember him as being a very strong director, impressive capital market experience, the new head of Meg Energy, that he was collaborative and hardworking. And generally speaking, across the board from the industry, they think very highly of him, but it is interesting that the industry focused on him, the government focused on the new environment minister.

And Pierre Paulia focused on what he says is very little change. Have a listen to what the conservative leader said. In all, 14 Trudeau ministers are now in Carney's cabinet. It's more of the same when Canada needs real change. Even the new additions are problematic. Gregor Robertson was the mayor of Vancouver who pushed for total legalization of hard drugs. Now he's the housing minister. What's his record on housing? Well, he increased housing taxes in Vancouver by 141%. If this is the new blood that Mr. Carney is bringing into the cabinet, then sadly for Canadians

nothing is going to change and the role of the Conservative Party will be more important than ever. Rosie, it would be unlikely to expect Pierre Poliev to cheer the new cabinet, but what do you make of his comments that this is just another, that it's Trudeau 2.0? I mean, it did hearken back a little bit, I thought, to the election campaign. Sometimes it's hard to turn that off in your brain when you're a politician, to go to, okay, I lost, so here's what I've got to do now. You know, the beginning of that press conference was more magnanimous, talking about how the Conservative Party would support the government if it was good for the country, like talking about the Donald Trump stuff. And then he sort

of went on personal attacks about all the people that were very, that were the same or similar value set as to Justin Trudeau. Justin Trudeau's not here anymore. Mark Carney won, Pierre Poilieff lost. So I think there needs to be a bit of a shift there. What I think Pierre Poilieff did well yesterday, could have done a little better, but what he tried to do was sort of set expectations of his own, right? Mark Carney was elected by a lot of people with a lot of big promises, and if he can't start delivering on those things pretty quickly, Pierre Poiliev is gonna hold his feet to the fire once he gets inside the house, and I think that that's fair, and that is something that Pierre Poiliev needs to keep pushing, that the expectations that

the government itself has set need to deliver. And if Canadians don't start feeling that, he's right, they will be disappointed very quickly. Steph, what did you make of the conservative leader's tone yesterday? I mean, his tone was certainly much more moderated in its timber. There wasn't that histrionic sort of anger that is sometimes characterized the way Mr. Poliev responds to things. And I think Rosie's point is well taken that there were two parts to that speech and the part where, you know, he laid out what the role of the opposition is in a new government where, you know, it is remains

to be seen. It's fair point to make that, you know, I don't know and to what end, but it is a fair point to make that Canadians, as the conservatives argued during the election, yes, Mr. Carney is a different liberal leader, but it is effectively giving a liberal government another term. And so it is fair to look at the past liberal record on things and wonder, okay, what is going to be different this time? The question for Mr. Poliev is if you're going to run through this list of attacks on cabinet ministers, well, we're not heading into an election imminently like we had been for the last year, let's say, leading up to March. And so the focus for him will have to be on the work his party can do in the House, making decisions, where

can they hold the government to account, where will they vote on side. But the tone change was notable, and it'll be interesting to see if that is the tone that the opposition intends to take in the House, which is much more house-like, shall we say, I guess, in an old kind of way as opposed to clips for viral social media videos. Can I just ask you quickly, Stefanie, one of the things he was also asked about was whether he knows of any conservative MPs who are thinking of crossing the floor to the Liberals. They just need a few of those folks to make that trip and perhaps the election would be a lot further off down the horizon. He said no to that. Is he right in that nobody will cross the floor?

It's a tricky thing to contemplate. If you're a conservative right now, you're trying to game out your own political future. You were not necessarily expecting to get elected to become an opposition backbencher again. And so are you willing to ride this out with Mr. Poli as your leader? Are you confident in him? Do you see a horizon where you could be a cabinet minister? If the answer to all of those questions in the current form is no, then would you look at crossing to the liberals?

Is the promise of a cabinet position now, because that's what it would take, right? It would have to be, you're not crossing to be a government backbencher. Is that enough for you to be, and then you would effectively be shunned by your colleagues forever more. That's dangerous stuff. So it's a tough decision to weigh for sure. Kathleen, Pierre Pauli is eyeing a seat in Alberta and he was asked yesterday about Alberta sovereignty. He said he is against separation, but that in his words Albertans have a right to be frustrated. What sort of needle is he trying to thread?

Well, that's the needle Daniel Smith is also trying to thread, although she's threading it a little bit differently. It might not be a thread that she's using. It seems more like a yarn of wool to tell tell you the truth, trying to get that through the needle. You know, I think that's a pretty straightforward message. It's what you would expect him to say, especially as the leader of the Conservative Party and presumably at some point soon, because of that by-election that will be coming, once again, leader of the opposition, which he's not technically at this point.

But that's exactly what you would expect him to say. And really, it's not like he carries a lot of risk. You know, there may well in that riding be people who might lean towards separatism. But let's remember that the MP that won on that riding won with 81.8% of the vote. There was a riding Saskatchewan where they won by 84%. That's about as safe as it gets though. Yeah, technically not the safest, but pretty darn close. So I'm not sure how delicately he needs to thread that needle. It's a pretty simple message to say, yes, Alberta has been

disrespected. Yes, they have legitimate grievances. I mean, that will play well here. And then oppose the idea of separation and sovereignty because, again, if your job is to continue to campaign to be prime minister, which is essentially what he's continuing to do, that absolutely has to be the message that you transmit consistently. You've all said that the clock is ticking in some ways on Mark Carney. He just became the Prime Minister, but action is demanded.

He spoke about his governing plans yesterday. Have a listen. My last government's first act was to cancel the consumer carbon tax. In this new parliament, our new government will put more money in Canadians' pockets with a middle-class tax cut that will take effect by Canada Day. We will also cut the GST on homes under $1 million for first-time home buyers and lower

the GST on homes between $1 million and $1.5 million, helping to promote the goal of affordable home ownership. Our clock is also ticking. We just have about two minutes left. And so Steph, uh, the King will come to this country at the end of the month to give the speech from the throne and start that new session of parliament. What will show you that the government is in action?

Uh, tactical plans, names of bills, like a process to get it through the house. He's saying by Canada today, the house is only scheduled to sit for a handful of weeks. That requires a lot of goodwill from the opposition parties to get it through the House. He's saying by Canada Day, the House is only scheduled to sit for a handful of weeks. That requires a lot of goodwill from the opposition parties to speed things through the legislative process. So actual tangible signs of how he intends to do that will signal that he's really gonna do what he says

he's gonna do, which is move fast. Stephanie, that's an interesting way to start the end of this. Kathleen, from your perspective, what is gonna show you to Steph's, that this government is moving fast? Well, I think to have Daniel Smith at least claim some victories because I think she needs some victories in dealing with this prime minister and this government.

And obviously, she has a very long list. It's a daunting list. There is no way he can meet everything on that list. But if some key areas he can show, you know, substantive, tangible progress, I think that's what a lot of people here will be looking for. Rosie, last word to you. Frankly, whether he can delegate.

He's been the head of a lot of big investment firms and banks. And said yesterday that he would be responsible for the relationship with the United States. Yes, yeah. And as he should be given, he has to maintain that relationship with the president. But now he has a team around him and he's going to have to let those ministers do their jobs and get things done. And I think it might be challenging for the prime minister to let that loose a little bit and to step back and focus on certain issues. So how quickly can those ministers get staffed up? Can they get briefed up? And can they start

actually doing their job? There's a cabinet meeting this morning, so maybe that's an indication of how quick the action will be. I really think that Mark Carney's biggest challenge will be managing expectations, but I have never heard a prime minister talk as confidently about his own ambitions as this prime minister. And we'll see whether that is warranted or not. It's good to get the band back together. We will talk again. Thank you all for being here this morning.

Thanks, Matt. Thank you. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.