The Current - CBC exclusive: Grandmother of missing Nova Scotia children

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

Lily and Jack Sullivan have been missing for nine months. For the first time their maternal grandmother is speaking in a CBC exclusive interview.

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This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. This week marks nine months since two young children vanished without a trace in rural Nova Scotia. Six-year-old Lily Sullivan and her four-year-old brother Jack were reported missing on the morning of May the 2nd. Since then, an extensive grid search of eight and a half square kilometers involving 1,700 crew members over 12,000 hours has turned up nothing, aside from a blanket. hanging in a tree and a child-sized bootprint. For months, we have been hearing from the children's stepfather and his family, as well as Jack and Lily's paternal grandmother.

Now the silence surrounding the children's mother has broken. Her loved ones sat down with the CBC's investigative reporter, Angela McHiver. Angela is in our Halifax studio. Angela, good morning. Good morning, Matt. Who did you talk to? Well, these are all people close to Malaya Brooks Murray.

She is Jack and Lily's mother, and she has stayed out of the public eye mat. She's still not ready to talk, but her mother, Cindy Murray, did sit down with me and my colleague, Allie Thompson, also Malaya's close family friend, Cheryl Robinson, and her childhood best friend, Angeline Maloney, Arsenao. This is Malaya's inner circle, people she has trusted the most

as she's been navigating these last nine months. And what did that inner circle, as you call it, tell you about how Malaya Brooks Murray is doing? They're extremely worried about her. They say she hasn't been doing well and has lost a significant amount of weight. Robinson says she's just trying to take it day by day. When I was speaking to her just before Christmas, when I was speaking with Cheryl, she told me how Malaya had gone shopping for Lily and Jack,

and she bought them clothes and toys, and she had them all wrapped for Christmas. And there were also unopened birthday presents for Jack. He turned five in October. There's still a sense of hope that they will still come home. You're speaking with this group because Malaya Brooks Murray has not talked publicly. What did you learn about that decision? Why she hasn't spoken out? Yeah, that has certainly been a criticism.

She did one media interview the day after the children went missing and nothing since. And her mother, Cindy, told us that in the beginning, the RCMP advised them not to talk. So they stayed quiet. Then the case went international and the online speculation became intense. Yeah, so Cheryl Robinson is a close family friend of Malaya Brooks Murray. She says anyone who knows Malaya isn't surprised by her behavior. I guess if you know Malaya, you would know that that isn't out of the ordinary for her. That's just who she is.

She was always quiet. She was never a confrontational person. She's like very shy. She only likes to talk to certain people. she doesn't like to broadcast herself. She's just, if you know her, then it's just the way she is. And I know that her behavior to a lot of people may seem odd, may seem different, and it may not be what a lot of people would do if their two kids were missing.

But until you're in that situation, you really don't know how you would act. As you mentioned, you spoke with Malaya's mother, Cindy. How is she doing? And what did she share about her grandkids? Yeah, she has been very cautious about opening up, especially with the media. As the months have passed, though, she is getting more desperate for answers,

and that has empowered her to now speak publicly. Jack and Lily called her nay-nay, something that she misses. They were very sweet kids. They would come play Lily's laughter. She was, it was. it was just she was so exciting to be around she was full of life Jack he would love his dinosaurs and he loved his little zoo animals and you would play with those for a long time and

he would come like to the barn and you love to see the horses and the animals and stuff yeah they had a lot of fun. They were fun kids. Do you have a favorite memory with them? We went to the beach a lot. They liked the water. They played with the sand and we would make little sand

castles with their baskets and their buckets. Angela, listening to that, I mean, you can't help but notice that she's talking about these children in the past tense. Yeah, it's one of those things, right? I think As more time passes, it's hard for everyone involved to talk about the memories in particular. As a grandmother, how is she holding up? She appears strong on the surface, holding it together.

She's a bit guarded, I would say. But, Matt, when you ask her to describe what this has been like, she completely falls apart. Cindy says she last saw the kids on Easter about a month before they vanished, and they all came to her house for dinner, and everyone seemed happy. She has spent the last nine months trying to wrap her head around the unusual circumstances of this case and what could have possibly led to their disappearance. It's something that I've never heard tell of. Two kids just go missing without a trace or answers. You know, it doesn't make any sense to me. And it's been like over eight months now.

And it's really hard to, it's just, it's just, a nightmare like I can't describe it it's mental torture to figure out like you know how come it's taking so long for them to find out what happened I really I have no like I really have no words I just want them to you know find out answers I just didn't feel it would take this long how often and did she see Jack and Lily? In person, not that often. They FaceTime frequently.

But here's the thing, Matt. Malaya cut out most people out of her life when she moved to Lansdown with Daniel Martel in August of 2023. They lived in his mother's trailer. She didn't give people the address, which is about 30 minutes away from where the couple had been living

with Jack and Lily before at her grandmother's house in Truro. She was pregnant at the time, and she cut people out of her life, including her friend Cheryl, who we heard at the beginning, and they didn't speak for two years. Cindy says she had no idea why her daughter was so unhappy until the weekend the kids went missing.

What do you mean? Well, she got the call and she rushed to Lansdown. So did Cheryl, Malaya's brother and sister, and a bunch of extended family. And when they arrived, they said the scene was chaotic. Multiple RCMP teams, there were dozens of search and rescue volunteers arriving on the scene, neighbors, friends and family.

They say it was stressful. Lansdown is a very rural area. There's lots of trees. You can't see your neighbors. The trailer they were living in with the children is older, a bit run down. The front deck had a hole in it at the time. There were toys and random things all over the yard.

Inside, Cheryl described it as very cluttered, just to give you a sense of the conditions she's talking about. Here's Cheryl again. The conditions that the kids were living in things that we had learned through looking for the kids. I know that not everybody has a fancy house, not everybody is rich, but there's things that you can do

to improve your living conditions. Malaya's friends and family also learned the following day on May 3rd that her boyfriend, Daniel Martel, had a history of drug use, meth and cocaine, and Matt, that revelation, led to a heated argument that later became a pivotal moment in this case. How so? Well, I asked Daniel Martel about it when we sat down for an interview in early January.

Here's his account of what happened. My mom, you know, said to the RCMP, this right now, this whole situation, this isn't about Daniel. This isn't about Malaya. This isn't about, you know, Malaya's friends and family, about my friends or family. This is about Lily and Jack, you know, her friends or her friends. family or were told, you know, not to be on the property. They could remain at the end of the driveway. And, you know, as time went on, we went to our first search briefing. And after that first search briefing, they left and did not return. This ascent isn't for everyone.

You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always over delivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors, all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarbro.cairbo.ca. This message comes from Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort.

journey through the heart of Europe on a Viking longship with thoughtful service, destination-focused dining, and cultural enrichment, on board, and on shore. With a variety of voyages and sailing dates to choose from, now is the time to explore Europe's waterways. Learn more at viking.com. So just to be clear, Malaya, the children's mother, never came back to the property where they all lived?

That's right. She has never returned. And I asked Cheryl about that because that has been everyone's big question here. Why did the children's mother leave the scene? She had left because we weren't leaving her there. It just wasn't the proper fit. And we knew when Jack and Lily were found, or we were hoping that they were going to be found,

that they would be brought back to Malaya's moms anyway. so we didn't feel the need to have to stay there. And court documents have provided more insight, Matt, into the dynamics inside the home and the weeks leading up to the children's disappearance. What have you learned through that court case? Yeah, so this is something CBC and the Globe and Mail have been pushing behind the scenes since last June. We asked for 12 documents known as information to obtain search warrants to be unsealed. And in those documents, an RCMP member summarizes information gathered in the course of their investigation.

redactions have been slowly lifted over time. Most recently, we learned Daniel told police during an interview that he and Malaya had been recently fighting about money, according to the documents. Malaya was asked by police if Martel was ever physically abusive during their three-year relationship. And what was her response to that question? Well, according to the officer who wrote the affidavit, Malaya said he would try to block her, hold her down, and once he pushed her, the document went on to say that she said he would also take her phone from her when she tried to call her. her mom, which would sometimes be physical and hurt. Daniel told investigators there was no physical violence in their relationship.

In the interview with me in early January, before we had the court documents, he also denied the allegations. There have been allegations from Malaya's friends and family that you were abusive to her. Were you? No. They said that when she moved in with you, she cut off all contact with them and you monitored her phone. She also monitored mine.

We both had the same passwords on her phone. And her friends, she blocked her friends on my phone, and she blocked them on her own phone. So how would you describe your relationship before the children went to say? I don't really want to talk on that because I don't really want to talk on too much to do with Malaya. It's best that we don't. And Matt, I should add that none of the allegations have been. been proven in court, and again, we spoke in early January. After you spoke with Daniel Martel, the RCMP laid charges against him, right?

Yeah, so last Thursday, RC&P charged him with sexual assault, assault, and forcible confinement in connection with an adult complainant. He's due to appear in provincial court on March 2nd. And this happened after our interview. I have made several attempts to reach him about these new charges. He has not responded. RCMP also declined to speak further. about the charges.

What is the RCMP saying about the case of Jack and Lily? Where does that currently stand? They say it's still very active. Teams are working on the case every day. But in terms of what they will tell us, not much. It's still considered a missing person's case. And the RCMP says it does not have reasonable grounds to believe it's criminal. Staff Sergeant Rob McCammon is the head of the RCMP major crime unit in Nova Scotia.

He says at times it is hard. to be tight-lipped, but right now he says it's necessary. It's difficult. I mean, you know, I have to respect the integrity, the investigative process to protect the rights of all individuals involved, but of course the knowledge and ascertaining what, how much a jack-a-lily is paramount in this investigation. You know, sometimes when it comes to not sharing information more broadly, it's because we need to ensure we maintain the integrity in order for us to pursue the investigative efforts

that we need to do. So it is a difficult line sometimes, and there's times we wish we could say more, but we have to protect integrity that investigative process. What's taking so long? Well, the sheer volume of information that's come in is a big part. And, you know, investigations like this take time. We've had over 8,000 videos that we've had to review and go through. We've had over 1,000 tips from the public,

and each one of those tips have to be reviewed in detail and steps taken to ascertain diversity or whether they're accurate. or not. And that all takes time. And you have to do it thoroughly and you have to document it properly. So larger investigations, they take a lot of time to do. And we have to take these steps and make sure we get everything in a role properly. Angela, you asked the key question there, which is what is taking so long? This has been nine months. How are Malaya's family and friends feeling about this investigation? Well, as Cindy Murray mentioned earlier, it's been agony, especially the not knowing. Here's Malaya's friend, Angeline Maloney, Arsena. Here's what she had

to say. For me, it's just the fact that they're not treating it as a criminal investigation. I think that if they did, maybe they would make a lot more headway in a lot in like a faster time period. Now, Angeline has become the unofficial online detective of this group. She finds a new piece of information or possible tip, and then she tracks it down. Kind of like a like a second job maybe in a way, but not in a bad light at all, though. Because you don't, again, you don't know what types of things. on there that could actually lead up to something huge, right? You talked earlier, Angela, about how this case went international and that the online speculation has kind of exploded.

Talk a little bit more about that information online and the speculation that has surrounded this case. Honestly, it's like nothing I've ever seen before. There have been dozens of true crime YouTube channels around the world dedicating hours each day to Jack and Lily. It has slowed down a bit the last few months, but the social media groups are another thing. People are constantly posting rumors,

photos are being doctored with AI. There's fake profiles that have been created in an effort to get information from family members. So many times I have seen screenshots of private conversations with family members or friends posted on social media and these YouTube channels. And it's to the point where everyone involved is just being more careful.

How has that level of attention affected, as you said, everyone involved? Yeah, well, for the most part, Malaya stays offline and doesn't pay attention to it. Angelene tries to stay on top of it, and so does Cheryl, but there have been days that Cheryl has been scared. I've had people post my address online. I've had people sit across the road, take pictures of my house, just a lot of nasty things.

In the beginning, a lot of people blamed us for having the kids. A lot of people don't know the dynamics around the situation. And I know that people think that they're helping the investigation and they're trying to help and they're really not. If anything, it's making it worse because of how many false tips that crime stoppers have had and that has put a delay on the investigators being able to do a quicker job, I think. And I've also talked to Daniel many times over the last few months,

and he's talked about people's obsession with the case and him. More recently, he's been receiving death threats. Death threats, that's serious. Are those being investigated? When I last saw Daniel in early January, he told me RCMP had recently brought him in to let him know about the threats that they were aware of. I've received numerous death threats in major crimes and notified me on that. And, you know, they're working hard to basically get them under control.

and find out who's doing them. How are these death threats coming in? I mean, I get them daily on my phone. That's a normal thing. But major crimes was aware of them. I'm not sure if they came in for tips, call-ins, or some other way. But they didn't want to dive into that. They're pretty limited on what they can tell me about any of it.

I mean, basically, because, you know, they don't want me to get worried and everything like that. But pretty serious stuff, I guess. Matt, I've also been at the property in Lansdown and have seen vehicles slow down to take pictures one after the other. And that's been a constant thing since last May when the children disappeared. The only reason people close to Jack and Lily seem to put up with it is because they hope the attention will help break this case. The RCMP says it does not have any plans to let this go cold. This is a harrowing story. I think anybody listening is alarmed by.

the disappearance of two young children and the fact that we know nothing really about where they went. And I think parents in particular feel that pain. You've been on this since day one. How has that been for you and your team? How are you doing with that? It's been awful. You know, I was on the assignment desk the day Jack and Lily were reported missing. And I remember my stomach dropped when I saw their pictures. And for the first couple of weeks, I was the person sending crews to Lansdown. and I wasn't talking directly to the people involved. And Matt, I will admit that, you know, I had to think about it when I went back to reporting. Is this a case that I really want to dive into?

I have two young children myself. My daughter is the same age as Jack. And that's really what made the decision for me. This case matters to everyone. We all think of those two children. And it's been wearing on us emotionally for sure. There are days you need to step back. But we keep going and reporting on this because there are still just so many questions,

and it's our job to at least try to get some answers. I appreciate you bringing us more of what you know and leading some of those questions out there to be answered as well. Angela McIver is a reporter with the CBC's Atlantic investigative unit. She was in our Halifax studio. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.

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