The Current - Chrystia Freeland’s pitch to replace Trudeau

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Chrystia Freeland says she’s not the preferred candidate of the “Ottawa elites” in the race to replace Justin Trudeau — and argues that shows she represents the change that Canadians want. She talks to Matt Galloway about returning the Liberal Party to grassroots control, and her plan to tackle Trump’s tariff threats. 

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This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Last month, Christia Freeland stunned the nation when she announced her resignation as finance minister on the day she was meant to deliver the fall economic statement. That announcement set off a chain of events that culminated in the Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announcing his own resignation. Well now, Christia Freeland is one of the leading candidates to replace him as leader of the Liberal Party and she joins us now. Christia Freeland, good morning. Good morning, Matt. Canadians, and you acknowledge this, Canadians overwhelmingly want change. How do you, as somebody who served at the highest levels of this government for nine

years, represent the change that Canadians are looking for? Well for the first thing, Matt, as you just said in your introduction, I did resign. I was increasingly at odds with the Prime Minister, specifically because I felt our government was focusing on electoral gimmicks when we needed to focus on Donald Trump and needed to keep our fire powder dry. But more importantly, what I think we really need to do now as a party, as a government, and as a country is recognize the world has changed and in a changed world we need different policies. I didn't listen to your show a minute ago because I've been doing like a million cross-country interviews, but your

excellent producers told me you've just been talking to Canadians who are concerned about tariffs. Canadians are smart. They are right to be focused on the threat Trump represents. I am too, and I have a plan for us to get through it and actually to seize an opportunity out of this crisis. Trump too is a true radical. He wants to change the United States and he wants to change the world. We don't need to be scared of that, but we need to take it absolutely seriously and to have a plan to fight for Canada. And that is what I have. I want to talk about your plan in a moment with Trump, but can I go back to to you and the change that you're saying you represent? You told my colleague, Catherine Cullen, on the house this

weekend that you were running against the Ottawa establishment. Help me understand this because until very recently you were the Deputy Prime Minister of Canada. How are you not the Ottawa establishment? Well, look, Matt, I think that it is pretty clear that the Ottawa elites today that I am not their preferred candidate, and I get that. I understand why for the Prime Minister and the people closest to him that they would feel that way. The fact is though that today what we need is to be listening to the grassroots, that we need to be listening to Liberal Party members.

One of the things we've allowed to have happen is for the Liberal Party itself to atrophy and for the grassroots not to have control of the party. Something that I will do if I am chosen as leader is give that control back to the grassroots and say, you know, you have to have the grassroots decide how they want to exercise that control. But the first thing I would do is say

to the grassroots members, you guys figure out how you want to speak truth to power. You guys figure out what kind of a leadership review mechanism you want to speak truth to power. You guys figure out what kind of a leadership review mechanism you want to have. I think if we had had that in place, we would be in a much better position today than we are now. Just to be clear, you don't see yourself as part of the Ottawa elite.

You were the deputy prime minister, you were the finance minister, you held some of the highest positions in government. What I represent today and what I am fighting for is inside our party for a renewal, for a real transformation. I think we need to get back to, to really have a true parliamentary democracy inside the government and we need to give the grassroots back control and that's why I've been putting forward very specific proposals to do that and

when it comes to the policy of the government what I am proposing is that we have a set of ideas that are focused on addressing the clear and present challenge that Canada and frankly the world, I mean look at what has happened with Colombia in the past 24 hours, is facing today. That's where I think Canada needs to be looking to the future. I have identified what is the existential threat to our country today. I have a plan to deal with it and I know I can do it because I've done it before. In your campaign ad you say that Donald Trump doesn't like you very much.

How is that an advantageous position going into tariff negotiations with the Americans if the person on the other side of the table doesn't like you? Well, he didn't like me the last time. That's where that quote comes from. And he didn't like me because I drove a hard bargain and got a good deal. The reality is what I think we all know about Donald Trump and what I know from having been in the room with him is for him, weakness is a provocation. He can see it, he can sense it, I think he can probably smell it. Do you think the current government and the current Prime Minister is weak?

What I think we need to do is be very, very strong and very specific. What I have said, what I am saying is today we need to publish a retaliation list and it needs to be big and specific. We need to publish 200 billion dollars worth of goods that we might retaliate against. What would that? For dollar retaliation will probably be smaller at around 150 billion but publish the list today. What would that accomplish if you put the list out now and you say, this is what we're coming after? What would that accomplish do you think? It would turn the tables right now.

Like you were talking to fishers from Cape Breton, auto workers, Canadians to see what could be coming in were scared and Trump wants us to be scared. Once we publish a retaliation list that's specific, we turn the tables and we use our own leverage. And American, you know, Wisconsin dairy farmers will see their cheese on their list and they'll say, hey, wait a minute, this is going to be a problem for us. Like what Canadians sometimes forget is we actually are the largest market by far for the United States.

We are larger than China, Japan, the UK, and France combined. And remember, the Americans at the end of the day, and certainly this President, they are businessmen. And for American businessmen, the customer is always right. Well, guess what? We're your biggest customer and we need to get really, really specific with the people whose customers we are, who sell us stuff and say, we don't want this to happen. We think we have a win-win relationship.

We do have a win-win relationship, but if you hit us, you will hit us back. The reason that will work mapped is that Trump, he actually does not care what Canadians think. And the more, you know, he sees Canadians squealing and being worried, you know, in so far as he thinks about it, probably it makes him happy. Who he really cares about is Americans. And if we can get Americans concerned very specifically and have them be calling up the White House, those Wisconsin dairy farmers, Michigan manufacturers who make the

washing machines that we buy, get them to call up the White House and say, we voted for you because we wanted our lives to be better. We wanted jobs, we wanted prosperity. You are hurting our best market. Just don't do it. That's what we need to be better. We wanted jobs, we wanted prosperity. You are hurting our best market. Just don't do it. That's what we need to have happen. We need to do it today because February 1st is coming in just a few days and we need to give them some reasons not to do this thing, which actually is completely unnecessary. Let me ask you just a bit more about this country, but even before these these threats were aired, there are real economic concerns in Canada.

The sense that you could do everything right. You could work hard, you could try to save, and you still can't get ahead. Why was the Liberal Party, do you think, slow to acknowledge that anger? I think you're absolutely right that right now, today in Canada, the overwhelming concern of people is can I get a good job, can I buy a house, can I afford my rent, can I afford my groceries.

And so why was the Liberal Party slow to acknowledge that? I think we need to acknowledge that today, we need to address that today and we need to be very, very focused on practical, pragmatic, bread and butter issues that concern Canadians. You'll forgive me for asking one more time. I mean, if you're running to be the leader in future, why was the party, a party that you were part of, slow to acknowledge that anger? I mean, you could agree or disagree with him and what he wants to do, but Pierre Poliev seems to have tapped in

in some way to that anger. Why did the Liberal Party miss that? Well, look, Matt, I guess I disagree with the premise of the question. I do think that we need to focus on people's lives, on people's jobs, on housing, on you know, can I afford the groceries? And that has always been my belief. Have Canadians hurt us? I think you're absolutely right, they haven't. And in so far as we need to do a better job of getting through to Canadians, I wake up every morning

thinking how can I make your life better and I get that your life isn't good enough, then yes, absolutely, we as a party, we as a government need to, we as a party need to do a much better job and if I were Prime Minister, that would be my relentless focus. And I do want to take one piece out of that, which is housing. Because I think specifically for younger Canadians, that is the real pain point, that is the pressure point and we need to really, really be acting there. I think there has been some progress, but we need

to be a lot more bold there. Can I ask you about another specific. Can I just say one bold housing thing? Just very briefly. And then I want to ask you about it. I know we're running out of time, so let me ask you about another specific thing, but go ahead. We need, we need to be very bold when it comes to

all the obstacles to getting more homes built faster. We need to be very bold when it comes to all the obstacles to getting more homes built faster. We need to be very bold when it comes to development charges. We have to get out of our own way because the fact is we're a growing country. We need more homes and we cannot have a whole generation lose hope of ever being able to afford a home. Another specific issue is the consumer price on carbon. Will you scrap that? Yes. You said, as recently as last year,

that this was the most economically efficient way to fight climate change. You said on this program that the best way to act in the face of climate change is a price on pollution. Why do you no longer believe that that is the way forward? You know, Matt, I think one of the most important and hardest things for political leaders is to get over yourself and to listen to people. the consumer price on pollution. You know, on paper it is a really appealing approach and tons of Canadian economists have believed for a long time this is

the right approach to take. But the reality is that is not what Canadians think, that is not what Canadians have been saying to us, and that's why one of the first things that I said when I kind of had this liberation of really being able to speak in my own voice and be my own woman in this campaign was to say we have to listen to Canadians, we have to listen to regular people, and they are saying that they don't care how many people lecture them and say this is an approach that is the right approach in their own lives it doesn't make sense. Is that what you felt? I think we have to honor and respect that and I

would say I can tell you the exact moment when I realized we had to take a different approach tell you the exact moment when I realized we had to take a different approach. And that was right after the Manitoba election when I had a meeting with Premier Wab Kanu. He is one of the leaders in Canada I respect the most. He's kind of like me, a progressive Prairie leader. He says the economic horse has to pull the social cart, a great motto. And he said to me right after his election, he said, look, you guys really, really have to drop the consumer price on carbon. People in Manitoba don't like it. Could you please work with Manitoba to come up? He said, like, I believe in climate change. I believe we need climate action. But this approach, people of Manitoba don't like it.

Could you please work with me to come up with an approach where we fight climate change. I'm in, I'm up for it. We have great hydro in Manitoba, but let's not do it this way that people don't like. I have to let you go, but did you feel that you were lecturing people in past, that the government was lecturing people in past on what to do? lecturing people in past, and what to do?

I think that a lot of Canadians felt that way, and I think it's really important as a leader to recognize where you were wrong. And this is a place where we were wrong and where I am absolutely committed to doing things differently. Christopher Fielan, it's great to speak with you and I hope we have the chance to talk again. Thank you for being here this morning. That would be my pleasure.

Thanks a lot, Meg. Christopher Fielan, former Liberal Finance Minister and a candidate for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada, we are hoping to speak with all of the leading candidates who want to be the next Liberal leader and Prime Minister of this country.