The Current - Civil war complicates earthquake rescue efforts in Myanmar

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Rescue operations continue after the massive earthquake that hit Myanmar and Thailand last week. But journalist Dave Grunebaum says Myanmar’s civil war is complicating relief efforts, as fighting between the military junta and resistance forces continues amid the destruction.

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This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, it's Mark Kelly here. You might know me from my regular gig as co-host of the CBC's The Fifth Estate. You'll be hearing more from me when I fill in for Matt as he crosses the country talking to Canadians about the election. I hope you tune in and please enjoy the current podcast. In the middle of widespread destruction, a small moment of hope. Rescue crews in Myanmar pulled a woman alive from the rubble. She was trapped after the region was hit by its worst earthquake in more than a century

on Friday. The massive 7.7 magnitude earthquake killed more than 2,800 people and the number is expected to rise. Five days after the earthquake struck, officials are still discovering the full extent of the death toll and the damage. The UN says it's rushing relief supplies to survivors in central Myanmar. Emergency shelter, clean water, food and medical attention are some of the pressing needs. The earthquake struck an area already hosting the largest number of displaced people in

the country. So the needs are vast. The earthquake also hit neighboring Thailand in Bangkok, more than a thousand kilometers away from the epicenter. Efforts are still underway to find people in the rubble of a skyscraper that was under construction. Freelance journalist Dave Grunabam covers Southeast Asia. He lived in Myanmar for seven years. We've reached him in Bangkok. Dave, good morning. Pleasure to be with you, Mark. He lived in Myanmar for seven years. We've reached him in Bangkok. Dave, good morning. Pleasure to be with you, Mark.

We'll get to Myanmar in just a moment, but I know you've been to the site of that collapse skyscraper in Bangkok. I watched the video of the collapse, and it's astonishing and troubling at the same time. A 33-story building just crumbles to the ground. You've been to the area. Describe the scene that you saw there.

Well, you just see what was a tower that, under construction, that was over 30 floors, is now just a pile of rubble. You can see layers of concrete and layers of steel, one on top of the other. It's just an incredible sight. And to think that there are still more than 120 hours since this earthquake happened, that there's still bodies,

hopefully some survivors, although it seems like chances are slim, but that there's bodies, you know, bodies, hopefully some survivors, although it seems like chances are slim, but that there's bodies still underneath the rubble there. As we head into the sixth night now, since this earthquake happened, they did pull another body out of out from the rubble today. So that brings the total death toll to 22 total in Bangkok, including 15 from that site, more than 70 people still missing. In

addition to what their authorities are still calling it search and rescue, they haven't given up all hope of finding people, although chances do seem slim, but on top of the search and rescue, there's also the investigation into why this tower came down. Because engineers are saying that even though that site was under construction, it should have still been able to withstand the earth. We've construction a lot of cranes up and a lot of towers that are being built here in Bangkok. I'm looking at one right now. That's more than 30, you know, levels tall that's under construction.

These other ones didn't come down and engineers are saying this one should have been able to withstand it. Why did it come down? There's an investigation underway. The Thai authorities have said out loud to the public, we assure the public that there will be a thorough comprehensive investigation. They're looking at many factors such as it was it a problem with the design or was it a problem with the materials that were being used?

But one key thing that they are looking at is the steel that was used and was the steel up to par? Did it meet the code? There are reports out that preliminary testing on a small sample, and I stress small sample of the steel, did not meet the code that it should have been up to. But again, that's just a small sample. We're going to need to get samples of a lot more until we have the answers. Authorities in Thailand have said we might get an update.

We expect an update on how the investigation is proceeding so far. We should get an update in about a week's time. Okay, Dave, let's go to Myanmar, where it's a very different story, and building code's very different there as well. The epicenter of the earthquake was near Mandalay. What do we know about the extent of the damage and the death toll in Myanmar today?

I mean, you know, it's in the thousands, it's going up. I mean, the truth is, there's a lot more that we don't know than what we do know about what's really going on on the ground there because there are so many communities that nobody's been able to reach because, you know, telecommunication lines are down so you can't contact them. People can't get to them because bridges have collapsed, roads have buckled, the earthquake-triggered landslides that covered roads. There were reports in local media that in some communities,

these are areas outside of the Junta's control, where people were using elephants to clear roads, but that's coming from local media. I haven't been able to confirm that myself, but clearly there are communities that no one's been able to get in touch with. So we just don't know the extent of the damage. You can also keep in mind that even before this earthquake

struck, if we flash back a week ago before the earthquake hit, there were already tens of millions of people in Myanmar dependent on humanitarian aid to survive because of the brutal civil war that was going on in this country. People who needed help just with basic things such as food, clothing, shelter. These things they needed help getting from humanitarian, you know, from humanitarian actors. That's before the earthquake. And many of those people live in the earthquake zone. So think about how they're in worse shape now. Now throw into that so many more communities that need that help. And what we've got to keep in mind, so you've had a protracted crisis,

humanitarian crisis already existing in this country. Now you have this huge emergency on top of it that has put a lot more people into dire straits. And keep this in mind, the monsoon season here is going to start within two months. It sounds like a lot of time. It is not a lot of time when you've got this many people desperate for help and this kind of difficulty getting to them. Yeah, and let's talk about that a bit. You mentioned that the military government there, the Myanmar is in the middle of a four-year brutal civil war, and the country has been ruled by this military government since a coup overthrew the democratically elected government back in 2021. Just how easy is it to get accurate information out of the Myanmar government today?

I mean, if you're talking about the junta, I in a day say what they want to say i mean they're they are only a label a lot of tiny number of international journalists in in there and they're picking you know who gets in a paper that like a statement they don't want to national schools come in because they can't because the stress on the resources i'm not saying that's not part of the equation but that but they you know they clearly don't want the outside world to see if it's going on i mean let's keep in mind

when the hoot the stage the coup four years ago, that led to a revolt. So, you've got all these loosely aligned ethnic militia groups that are fighting the military. And the truth is, in the past year, the rebels have given the upper hand to control less than half of the territory in Myanmar. And more than half belongs to a myriad of different ethnic groups that are loosely aligned. They're alliances that they're against the junta.

But you know, there's so much of the country, including areas that were badly hit by this earthquake that are not under military control that humanitarian aid groups need to get to to provide critical aid. There are so many communities that even before the earthquake struck because of the Civil War and the damage that's been done by fighting forces, so many communities don't have access to clean water, don't have access to electricity. This was before the earthquake. So think of the situation these communities are in now that we're near the epicenter of the earthquake. So you've got all these humanitarian actors that want to get access and they're in a delicate

situation because they want to convince the military and get the outside rule to put pressure on the military to let them in. But they don't want to upset the military and get kicked out of the country because then they can provide aid to nobody. And there were reports out of Myanmar that the Chinese aid convoy claims that it was shot at as it was trying to deliver some humanitarian aid. Myanmar's resistance movement announced a unilateral partial ceasefire over the weekend, and the UN has called on the military regime to stop all its military operations.

Is there any hope, Dave, that some form of ceasefire could take hold right now? I don't want to say there's not hope, but according to people I've spoken to, including experts who monitor the situation very closely, they say there have been airstrikes every day, including since the earthquake, in rebel controlled areas and including in areas that were struck by the earthquake. So they say there have been strikes every single day. We have to keep in mind that this is a military junta that is fighting for its survival. It's been losing the war, particularly over the past year,

and now they're in a situation where they can try to exploit the situation for their own gain. They could be in a situation where they can make it look like we can get a we can take make sure our people in our Territories are taken care of and if they choose to deny aid To all the other to make it really difficult for humanitarian aid groups to get to the areas that rebel forces control You know they could potentially you know Weak not only rebel forces, but weak the morale of the civilians that live in those communities They can make it really difficult for them to hold strong to hold independent independent, to stay separated from the military government. They can really weaken them. I mean, the military junta, they have this thing called the four cuts, collective punishment against civilians that they perceive have ties to insurgent groups. And those four cuts

are to cut off food, finance, intelligence, and recruits. And you do that in the civilian population and that makes it really tough on the rebel forces that you're up against. food, finance, intelligence, and recruits. And you do that in the civilian population and that makes it really tough on the rebel forces that you're up against. This isn't something new that they've applied the four cuts strategy since the coup in the last four years. This is something the military junta has been doing for decades.

Because keep in mind, there was a military, there was successive military junta governments from 1968 until about 2010. Then in 2011, there was sort of a quasi-military, a shared power arrangement between the military and a civilian government that went on for roughly 10 years until the military staged a coup in 2021. But so the military has a history of doing this for-cut strategy. Dave, we appreciate the update.

You stay safe. Thank you for your time. We reach freelance journalist Dave Grunbaum in Bangkok, Thailand.