The Current - Colleges make deep cuts after drop in international students

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Colleges across Canada are slashing programs and staff due to a steep drop in the number of international students coming to Canada. We look at how government funding cuts led colleges to rely on these students as a revenue stream in the first place, and how these program cuts might affect domestic students' education in the long run.

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And on to today's show. It's pretty shocking. You know, I know a few good professors I had for the last three semesters. It's really unfortunate to see the layoffs. It sucks because our faculty is really good for us. They do a lot for us. And it's really upsetting that the college can't really see that. Hospitality will always be one of the things that is needed to help build the economy. So for me it doesn't make sense that my course would be

taken out as one of the things that new or upcoming students would want to enroll to. Those are some students at Centennial College in Toronto reacting to the suspension of 49 different programs. That school is one of many across Canada slashing programs and staff following the federal government's cuts to permits for international students. The program cuts are most dramatic in Ontario, but they are being felt right across the country. Alex Usher is the president of higher education strategy associates. It provides research and advice to colleges,

universities, and policymakers. He's with me in studio now. Good morning. Good morning. You have called what is happening at colleges, these are your words, a program apocalypse. That sounds dramatic. Uh, well, it's about a thousand programs, uh,

at the college level in Ontario is what we're looking at. We've had, uh, about 250, about 250, 300 announced at six colleges. Run that over the other 18 that have yet to make those announcements. And yeah, you're probably looking at about a thousand, that's big. You wrote about one specific college, Sir Sanford

Fleming College announced a set of program suspensions and the list goes on and on and on. Business, business HR, ecological restoration, environmental technology, fish and wildlife technology, global business, law clerk. I mean, I could continue reading for 10 minutes probably. How extensive are these cuts? Well, you have to remember that the reason that colleges got so heavily into international students and remember in Ontario last year, over 50% of students in Ontario colleges were international students.

They did it because the provincial government largely stopped paying them, right? So the provincial government stopped increasing budgets by halfway through the wind period. So it's been about 10, 11 years since there's been an increase in, in, in provincial funding. This is the previous premier before Ford. This is the previous premier before Ford. And then the Ford government, uh, reduced

and then froze tuition fees for domestic students. And what that created was a big budget gap for a lot of universities and colleges. So they started going after international students. Some of them went overboard. That's why the federal government intervened because it was creating some chaos in, in certain housing markets. And what that means is that, uh, at the, at the international students. Some of them went overboard. That's why the federal government intervened because it was creating some chaos in, in

certain housing markets. And what that means is that, uh, at the, you know, by last year, there was more money going into the Ontario college system from Indian students alone than there was from Queens Park. Why is it colleges in particular that are being hit yesterday on the program? We spoke about universities and universities

that are cutting particularly arts programs. And this is about a number of things, including funding, but also enrollment in some of these courses. But it feels, it seems like colleges are being harder hit. Yeah. Colleges got into the international game much more than universities did, partly because, I think some of them, in effect,

I think people use the word weaponized, but what they did was they went very, so Conestoga, for instance, brought in 30,000 international students into a fairly small market in one year. And that was a lot. 30,000 international students in one year. Yeah. And they could do it because it was a one year program and in theory it allowed a path to citizenship and there were a lot of people, particularly from India, particularly from the Punjab, who thought that was a great deal, that it was a good way into Canada.

And so- Also made a lot of money for the colleges because you can charge more money for international students than you can for domestic students. Exactly. Okay. And so they got hooked on this money, if you will. And so when the governor of Canada cut that off, first of all, by reducing the number of visa spots,

and then by changing the path to citizenship in effect, you know, institution in Ontario are losing 60, 70% of their international students. That's 30, 35% of their budgets. That's why they're cutting programs. There's a provincial election in the province of Ontario in two days time. Yes. And this issue was one of the topics that came up in the Ontario provincial election debate last week. Have a listen to the conservative lead Doug Ford defending his government's record. We cut tuition the exact year we got elected. We cut it by 10%. We've never raised it. We're making sure that the students focus for jobs of the future.

You know, what we did find out, a couple of classes had four or five people in it. And we thought, that's ridiculous. You know, like a basket weaving course. Let's focus on STEM. Doug Ford suggests the program's being cut around popular programs like basket weaving. Well, the basket weaving comment is ignorant. But the courses that are being cut around popular programs like basket weaving. Well, the basket weaving comment is ignorant,

but, um, what you see, the courses that are being cut, about half of them were mostly for international students anyway. But is there a grain of truth aside from the basket weaving comment? Is there a grain of truth in what he's saying that low enrollment suggests that these institutions can't continue to, to fund the existence of the

classes because there are a handful of people who are in the class. If you take away, if you freeze government funding and you reduce tuition, therefore you're reducing the amount of money the government gives per student, per domestic student it's down about 25% over the course of the Ford government. Then yeah, it gets harder and harder to get to, to put on small classes. And so yes, to some extent that is what's happening. Universities are cut, or pardon me, colleges are cutting the programs that have slow domestic enrollment or they're cutting programs that have slightly higher enrollment,

but are really expensive to put on. And in some cases, that's skill trades, right? So it's not just programs in what you would call humanities are being cut. We're seeing a lot of technologists' programs being cut. We're seeing a lot of STEM programs being cut. We're seeing skill trades programs being cut. Why did you say that the comment about basket weaving was ignorant? Because nobody does basket weaving. I mean, look, that's, that's one of these things. He, the premier has a certain part of his coalition for whom it's cool to kick educational institutions. Is that why, is that why this isn't an issue in the provincial campaign in some ways? I think colleges and universities, first of all, I don't think that the, you know, it takes time for issues to become, uh, kitchen table issues that people talk about

and they bring up with their elected representatives. And I think the cuts have come very quickly and they've come very late and it hasn't had time to percolate into the issue. But I think Ontarians have got used to the idea that they can have world-class universities and a world-class college system without paying for it. That's what we've been doing the last 10 or 15 years. Certainly a political issue on the federal scale, the immigration minister, Mark Miller, uh, has been critical of, of post-secondary institutions that have been reliant on

international students. He suggested their business models need to change, compare them to Poppy Mills, for example. Well, I would go with the word ignorant comment again, yes. But is, is again, is there a grain of truth in that these schools became dependent on a financial model that is unsustainable?

That's absolutely. That if you reduce the number of those students and you've been making money for whatever reason, because of reduced funding, on the backs of those students, if it's fair to say, and the number of those students goes down, then that model collapses. Yes, that was always the case, but this is something that the Ford government

encouraged them to do. I mean, they were very, very clear about it. Those, what this is something that the Ford government encouraged them to do. I mean, they were very, very clear about it. What we call, what I think Miller was referring to in the puppy mills, were what were called public-private partnerships, and they were private colleges delivering public colleges curriculum, and students would get a public college's diploma or certificate at the end of it. The Ford government encouraged the colleges to do that over and over again.

They kept changing the regulations to allow them to have more students. And the reason they did that because they didn't want to fund them publicly. And so, yes, it's one thing to criticize institutions for doing it, and certainly some of them abused that program and those PPPs. I don't think there's any question about that. But the idea that this is something colleges did on their own or universities did on their own. Come on.

What happens to Canadian students who are currently enrolled in some of these courses? Lockler, supply chain, therapeutic recreation, tree care technique, the list goes on and on. If you are enrolled in one of these courses and now, because the financial model seems to be collapsing, those courses could be withdrawn or paused or suspended or whatever the

language is that people want to use. What happens to the people who are enrolled in those courses? Suspended usually means suspended intake. And so the people who are already in the program get to finish it out. Um, which of course makes it more costly for the college because they've got to, you know, keep teaching a program with fewer and fewer students in it as it goes in. So it actually incurs some costs in the short run. I don't know of any programs where they've

simply said we're stopping it midway. So I think as the students who are, who are in those programs are protected, what it means is that students in that college's catchment area in future aren't going to have the choice to, aren't going to have as many choice, pardon me, programs to choose from. College presidents have been warning about the

impact that these cuts are going to have on their communities in terms of their ability to meet labour market needs. What should people be thinking about there? Because this is about the schools and the students, but it's also about the communities that those schools are situated in. It's very much about the communities.

And I think it's a, it's a, it's a really big issue, uh, for colleges that serve Francophone communities, uh, both in Ontario and, uh, uh, elsewhere in the country. Um, it's, it's been very hard on them because particularly in the social service fields, those are the only students, those college students who come in from Cameroon or Cote d'Ivoire, those are the only people going into those career areas. And so that's been very important. Elsewhere, I think the real impact is going to be where colleges

just decide to get rid of technologist programs and certain skilled trades. We're not seeing a lot of skilled trades going under, but we could because the government loves skilled trades, but they're expensive and it doesn't pay for them. So those are programs that are on the chopping block. You said right across the country, provincial governments have been underfunding colleges for a long time. International students in some ways provided the financial slack for them to keep going. We are about to see what less with less looks like. What does that mean for those colleges across the country?

Well, you know, I mean, most of the GTA colleges, for instance, are going to, are going to shrink by about a quarter. I don't know of any institution in the country that isn't shrinking a little bit. My guess is we're looking at, you know, budget cuts of five to eight percent at most institutions across the country. And that means less choice. There will be smaller institutions. There will be fewer people employed there. There will be fewer programs available for students.

And that's going to cause ripples through certain parts of the economy because there just won't be a new flow of graduates in certain places in certain programs. Do you think there's any appetite just finally among Canadians more broadly to see their governments fund these institutions at a greater level? Not just colleges, we're talking universities as well. Yeah. You hear from university presidents, it's a different pinch, but they're also feeling it. They are feeling it and they'll feel it for longer because their programs are longer.

Colleges, the hits all coming at once. I hope we do. I don't think there's a lot of evidence of this. I mean, we hit peak post-secondary education, if you think about spending as a proportion of the economy in 1971 and it's been downhill for 50 years. And so there have been times where it has fallen less quickly than others. I think the period from about 2000 to 2008 was pretty good for universities and colleges. It's the one decade of the last five that post-secondary education got the same kind of increase that health does on a regular basis.

I think it's probably another few years before we see the cracks in the system be large enough and be evident enough to parents, that'll be a problem. I would say the one thing that's gonna do it is we are in an upswing for the 18 to 21 year olds in BC and Alberta, that age group goes up by 30% in the next decade. Where are we gonna put them if there's no new money in universities and colleges? That's gonna be a big question. So I think for a lot of people, the question would be, can I get my kid into the programs I want them to get into, right?

Those, those expensive STEM programs, because that's where the pinch is going to be felt. Alex, thank you very much. Thank you. Alex Usher is the president of Higher Education Strategy Associates. Your thoughts on this welcome. This is the time of the year when kids are

starting to think and their parents as well about courses that they might take and where they might go in post-secondary education. You can email us, thecurrent at cbc.ca. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.