The Current - Companies bending knee to Trump will face consequences: union leader

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

It is “reckless” and “premature” for General Motors to cut roughly 750 jobs at its Oshawa plant in response to U.S. tariffs, says Jeff Gray, Unifor’s local 222 president. He tells Matt Galloway that companies that “bend a knee to Donald Trump” will face consequences as a result.

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This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is the Current Podcast. Ontario auto workers are starting to feel the impact of U.S. tariffs on Friday. General Motors said it will permanently cut one of three shifts at its plant in Oshawa because of what GM called the evolving trade environment. About 750 workers who build GM's Chevy Silverado trucks will be out of a job come this fall. It could also mean 1,500 job losses for those working in the car part manufacturing industry. The Prime Minister Mark Carney addressed that news in his first post-election speech.

We are committed to supporting workers, all the dollars from our tariffs going to support workers, fighting hard for our auto sector, all our sectors in these negotiations with the Americans, and making sure that companies act in true partnership as well in maintaining employment and investment in Canada and if not there will be consequences for those companies. The current was in Oshawa in the lead-up to the election. One of the people I met there was Jeff Gray. He's the local president of Unifor Local 222. That's the union that represents workers at the plant. He's with me again this morning. Jeff, good morning. Thank you, Matt.

Thank you for having me. It's good to have you back. I know that you were preparing for the fallout from these tariffs, but how big of a shock was this news on Friday? Well, when we got the news Friday morning, uh, that was being communicated from the company, it was, uh, you know, upsetting and,

um, it was an emotional day Friday. Uh, a lot of our workers and our members reached out to us and we don't quite have the answers yet. Obviously we've begun a game plan but Friday was surely one of those days we'd like to forget. I want to talk about the emotion but were you surprised by this news? Yes, I'm gonna tell you I was because you know the way we're looking at this decision is you know it we think we're looking at this decision is,

you know, we think it's a bit reckless and it's a bit premature by General Motors to decide that they're going to bend a knee to Donald Trump and get ahead of the game here and move some of our production to Fort Wayne and Flint, Michigan. And there was no reason for that as of yet. And like I say, we thought it was a little premature. I just wonder, I mean, the surprise part is worth asking because when I spoke with you, one of the things we talked about was the fact that at the beginning of April, right after the 25% tariff came

into effect, GM announced that it was boosting production of the Silverado trucks at its Indiana plant and the production that was at Oshawa, that one shift is moving directly to that Fort Wayne plant. So you must've known something like this could have been coming, right? That the possibility of GM, you say bending the knee, but the possibility of GM reacting to this

environment, um, was there, right? Yeah, yeah. And no doubt, um, you know, we don't have our heads in the sand by any imagination. Um, but you know but truck sales continue to be robust. General Motors here in Oshawa has been one success story after we launched the truck in 2021. We would hope that this corporation would show a commitment to his Canadian workforce and not bail it at the first opportunity. And they have reiterated that they do have a sustainable to shift operation future here in Oshawa, but at the same time, we're losing a third of our

workforce come this November and that's not okay with us right now. What can they do in Indiana that you can't do in Oshawa? Uh, there's nothing at Indiana and Oshawa. Uh, you know, they're identical plants making the same products for the most part. Is it cheaper for them to do it down there? Well, okay. And I'm glad you asked that because, um, just

prior to all this tariff nonsense and then Donald Trump getting elected, General Motors did do an in-depth study of what it costs to produce a pickup truck. In Oshawa, we were $900 a truck cheaper than in the United States. So, no, it is not cheaper to go to the United States. What are you telling 750 people who work in that plant will be out of a job come this fall. And as you said, when we were there, these are people, it's not just numbers, these are people with families and mortgages and kids and dance and then hockey and all the things

that having a good paying job helps you float. What have you been telling them? Well, we know these people individually, we know them as by name, as not as members, and we represent them on a daily basis. And this is just the hardest news to talk about. And the conversations we're having with them is, look, the past General Motors has made many announcements in the last 20 years that had a negative impact on Oshawa and we always believed in our union leadership here in Oshawa to help guide us through those moments in time and each and every time the junior workers were able to remain at work through these moments where bad news was delivered. We're asking our members to continue to believe in their leadership because we are going to

start to explore all the options and put the pressure on the company the best we can. General Motors said in its announcement that it has plans to build vehicles in Oshawa, in its words, for 100 plus to build vehicles in Oshawa in its words for 100 plus years. Do you believe the company? I want to. I really do. That was a big pause before that you said you wanted to. Yeah, I want to. I want to believe that. I appreciate those words from General Motors. Our membership appreciates those words from General Motors. But at the same time, our membership appreciates those words from General Motors. But at the same time, we are down to a two shift operation. And with that, we lose a little bit of our relevance within the company.

We want to be a three shift operation. We want to be 100% utilized. We want our members working five, six days a week producing this high quality pickup truck. And those are our goals. The president of your union, Lana Payne, said on Friday in a statement, GM doesn't get a free pass to abandon its commitments and the US doesn't get to free ride in Canada. She goes on to say the cutting jobs now has consequences and the GM has six months to fix this.

Six months to fix this or what? I mean, what are the consequences for GM? So we, under Lana Payne, our national president, who's done a fantastic job in her tenure as president of our national union, she is going to lead the charge here. She is going to give us the direction that we need and how we're going to fight, when we're going to fight, and what that fight is essentially going to give us the direction that we need and how we're going to fight when we're going to fight and what that fight is essentially going to look at and

I can tell you right now Between our local union and I know Lana Payne at her level as well the discussions with the Premier the discussions with our newly elected Prime Minister they have begun and You know somehow minister, they have begun. And you know, somehow we are trying to put together our best foot forward here and make a game plan to convince General Motors that we need to remain three shifts. A lot can change in six months. I mean, the announcement was for early November for this shift to come off. So we're of the mind state that we can try and convince them otherwise in the meantime.

But what does that mean, those consequences? I mean, the prime minister, Mark Carney said the same thing, that there could be consequences for auto companies if they don't work in partnership and maintain employment here in Canada. What is the card that you can play that would force GM to reconsider this? That I would say would more rest on Mark Carney's, Prime Minister Carney's shoulders

and our National President, Lanipane, what the actual consequences look like. That could be financial liability, maybe there is outstanding loans or commitments, but that is certainly something that would be at that level. But there will be consequences. I mean, whether that may look like, you know, get the membership together to try and not have job action, but, you know, basically put ourselves out there to the Canadian public and, you know,

begin a marketing scheme or somewhat to make Canadians aware from coast to coast exactly what's happening here. Do you worry about the beginning of the end? This is something else that we talked about. GM used to have what, 20,000 people working at that plant? Well, back in the day in the seventies and eighties, yeah, it was almost 20,000 people and we're down to,

as of right now, 3000 in that factory. And you'll lose another 750 by the fall. 750 and let's be honest, a lot of automation and AI has come into place in the last number of years. But even when I started in 2003, we had eight shifts operating in Oshawa and several models of vehicles pumping out 24-7, six days a week, and here we are,

we're projected to be a two shift operation come November. So do you worry again, that this could be the beginning of the end, but the writing in some ways could be on the wall for a plant that has been around for a long time. I mean, you can be optimistic and bullish, but at the same time, I just wonder whether it feels different

given what's going on in the United States right now. We are concerned. We'll always be concerned. We would be naive not to be concerned that the writing could be on the wall. I mean, here we are in a wave of success, the last four years launching this truck, but every wave has a crest, right?

And we need to look beyond the wave of success and make sure that there's a long-term game plan here in Oshawa. And we do continue to see some capital investment in the plant, which gives us more of a positive outlook on the long-term future of Oshawa and you know just just the rhetoric around Donald Trump's tariffs the you know we don't want to see the confidence of General Motors that continue invest in Oshawa because we are one of their most profitable high quality plants they have in North America and we want General Motors to look beyond the external factors like Donald Trump and look at the core

business and say hey Oshawa is a great place to build a truck. I'll let you go, but when we were there, the retirees said that if GM tried to take the equipment out of the plant, they would line up in front of it and prevent them from removing the machinery from that plant. Yes, and they are absolutely correct. We will fight with every tool we have in our toolbox

and just like we have in the past We're not going to allow General Motors to leave Oshawa We want to press them to make it a very profitable place to do business for a long time I appreciate speaking with you again. Jeff. Thank you very much. Thank you, Matt Jeff Gray is the president of Unifor local 222 in Oshawa, Ontario He represents GM workers in that plant 750 of those workers could be out of a job by this fall. A VP at HBO said no one would ever watch Yellowstone. Stephen King was rejected by 30 publishers.

Charles Schultz was told he'd never make a living scribbling, and Missy Elliott was dropped by her label. The stories of famous names, their lesser known rejections and the insights those rejections provide. We regret to inform you the rejection podcast. Listen to season six wherever you get your podcasts. Candice Lange is the CEO of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. She's been listening and Candice, good morning to you. Good morning to you, Matt. Thanks for having me.

Thanks for being here. GM is blaming production cuts in Oshawa on what it says, euphemistically, is the evolving trade environment. Jeff Gray says the GM is appeasing Donald Trump. Do you believe him? And is that the right language to use saying that this is appeasement? I don't think so. I think evolving trade environment is one way

to say what we're dealing with. I think the massive, massive uncertainty is just really shifting us from a chill over business to almost a complete freeze. Definitely, we're seeing businesses try to hold off as long as they can on many things, including layoffs. But then they're also just, you know, kind of stuck in place as they're looking at, you know, decisions they would usually be taking or guidance they would usually be providing, which they're really just struggling to do so in such uncertainty, evolving, if

not like just on again, off again tariffs, even the pauses that are put in place, Matt. I mean, pauses don't provide real relief for business because you still don't have certainty, right? So we have a pause on the original border and fentanyl tariffs without an end date, but what guarantee? We have a change or a shift in course on the tariffs on auto parts, but again, with what guarantee? Normally, these things would be guaranteed under a trade agreement, which is not being

honored at the moment, but it just, it creates so much uncertainty for businesses and it's definitely our understanding we're trying to hold off on some of these decisions as long as possible. But do you expect other US companies to make similar decisions? I mean, the CEO of Ford supports the tariffs, the union that represents auto workers in the United States supports them as well, thinks it's going to bring jobs home. Do you think other companies will follow GM's lead here and pull jobs out of this country and move them to the United States because that's what the US president wants?

Well, there's a couple of things to consider. So in the next while, I mean, it's probably going to be bumpier for Canada as we kind of navigate through our trade relationship with the US, but when you look at the numbers and happy to dig into the auto sector overall in particular, the integration of our supply chains, this goes back to the 1960s with our auto pack, our supply chain integration is just so efficient now.

A whole car isn't made at one site. If you're going to actually unwind all of that, you're looking in the US, you know, I think they would have to have about six additional facilities. The cost of that is, you know, about $2.3 billion each plus hundreds of thousands of dollars in closure costs. And probably the most important thing that I've heard at least a bit recognized lately is that's going to take years, like two to three years. So I do have some hope because originally, I think we heard the Trump administration yet will pause for 30 days to allow production to be moved. And that's just completely ludicrous.

It would take years and so much value destruction to do this that I think many businesses are holding off. We're seeing that in other sectors as well. And then I think you touched on this, the price of vehicles will go up in the US as well. Let me ask you about, I mean, it goes well beyond the auto sector. You have Spin Master, which is the Canadian

toy company, they're behind Paw Patrol and a million other things. They withdrew their 2025 outlook last week because of all the uncertainty. They said they're going to reduce production in China for a couple of years time. They're going to have to raise prices as well. Is that what you're hearing from

other Canadian businesses? Well, I think, you know, it's, it's, we know that the cost of tariffs, tariffs are like a tax and we're worried those just get passed on to consumers, which is what we've been pushing as we bring the facts to this discussion, even for Americans, there's a lot of Americans

that don't understand, you know, tariffs mean things are more expensive for them. And that doesn't seem to be, to be, you know, tariffs mean things are more expensive for them. And that doesn't seem to be to be, you know, registering. So we make sure to bring all that data and information to every discussion. But I think what you're seeing in terms of the landscape right now is, you know, how how would businesses make decisions or provide guidance? Like I said, if tariffs keep changing? We say in business, if it's going to be bad news, it's better just to know it so businesses can plan, even if it's worse than the current unpredictable environment or evolving environment,

because it's just impossible to take decision and know, and know what to do in the, in the medium or longer term. Could I just ask you briefly about the supply chains that the head of the port of Los Angeles said that container ship traffic coming into that port was going to be down something like 35% next week. We saw it during COVID, the impact of a supply

chain scramble. Donald Trump was saying on the weekend that he thinks it's a good thing that essentially the United States isn't doing business with China anymore. How quickly do you think we will see the impact of that on, you say, oh my gosh, I mean, how quickly will we see the impact of that on store shelves? Yes. Well, I mean, I will say this.

I know that the full comprehension of supply chain sensitivity is not in the Trump administration. I think there's a little hope that it's being a bit better understood, but I would say, and this is where I've spent my time in DC, is on the education and awareness on the value of integrated supply chains and just supply chain sensitivity. Do you remember, Matt, a few years ago in the Suez Canal when a ship got stuck for just six days and the massive damage to the global economy? So when you look at what's happening,

and I'm hearing the same thing you are from the Port of Los Angeles and others, and it's not unexpected. We saw some of this in Trump 1.0 as well, sorry, the first administration, where tariffs, the threat of them came into play. You actually had a surge because people are stockpiling to kind of weather the storm. And then with the onset of tariffs, trade flows fall. And so I think we're in that zone right now in the US,

and we'll see what happens. But as soon as you have like an interruption or a shift in flows, it doesn't take much for costs and that strain just to skyrocket. So I am actually quite concerned for Americans at this point in time. I have to let you go. We just have a few seconds left.

The prime minister is going to meet with Donald Trump at the White House tomorrow. What is one thing that needs to come out of that? Do you think? The relationship at this point, absolutely. We have a new prime minister, new negotiator, best thing is a fresh start. That previous relationship has soured and it matters that President Trump wants to do business with you. So I expect our prime minister will be able to show

strength and establish a bit of a reset on the relationship. And I think it will take us some time to work through things. I don't expect things to move quickly, but I do hope for a bit of a bridge to be built and hopefully that relationship in a bit of a reset mode tomorrow. Candice, it's good to talk to you. And we, I hope we'll talk again

because this story is not going anywhere. Thank you very much. Really, thank you. Candice, it's good to talk to you and we, I hope, will talk again because this story is not going anywhere. Thank you very much. Really, thank you. Candice Lange is the CEO of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.