The Current - Dyslexia made Phil Hanley feel stupid. He wants kids today to skip that shame

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

The comedian Phil Hanley remembers his school teachers calling him lazy and stupid, when in truth he was struggling with dyslexia. In his new memoir Spellbound: My Life as a Dyslexic Wordsmith, Hanley writes about how his mother defended him in an unsympathetic education system, and why he doesn’t want dyslexic kids today to feel the shame he did.

How did the internet go from this? You could actually find what you were looking for right away, bound to this. I feel like I'm in hell. Spoiler alert, it was not an accident. I'm Cory Doctorow, host of Who Broke the Internet from CBC's Understood. In this four-part series, I'm going to tell you

why the internet sucks now, whose fault it is, and my plan to fix it. Find who broke the internet on whatever terrible app you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. Third grade was the worst because the teacher was old and she learned to teach before dyslexia was invented. She told my parents I was dumb. My dad overcompensated. He's like you're probably smarter than her. That's irresponsible parenting. Creating a child that's illiterate and overconfident.

Teacher's like this is how you spell Antarctica. I'm like, yeah, that's not how I spell it. That's the Canadian comedian Phil Hanley joking about the dyslexia he has had to deal with since he was a kid. In his new memoir, it is obvious that it wasn't always a laughing matter. Trying to get through school in Oshawa, Ontario involved its fair share of cruel teachers and long evenings at home with his mom slogging through homework. But all that struggle later became a source of inspiration for his very successful comedy act. And now Phil Hanley has written about it,

plus a stint as a high fashion model in Milan and London. That memoir is called Spellbound, My Life as a Dyslexic Wordsmith. And Phil Hanley is in our New York City studio. Phil, good morning. Good morning. Wow, I'm so excited to speak to you. I'm really glad to have you on the program.

It could sound to some people like a bit of a punchline, Dyslexic Comedian Writes a Memoir. Yeah. How difficult was it to write the book? I mean, I want to talk a little bit later on about reading the book, which was fascinating. But writing the book, what was that like for you? It was really, really hard the book, what was that like for you?

It was really, really hard because I had taken general or basic English all through school, so I didn't even, jokingly to say, and it's like half joking, that my editor taught me that exclamation marks weren't called loud marks. I really, but I'd written jokes and stuff for years. So the book took me like eight years and in that time I learned how to write. Can I ask you, you said something on The Tonight Show that was really interesting in terms of explaining what dyslexia is. You said, tell a dyslexic child to sound out a word that'd be like if somebody

pulled you aside and said, hey, I can't eat this, I'm definitely allergic to peanuts and you're like, chew slowly. What don't people understand about dyslexia? Well, I mean, dyslexia affects people, you know, different, there's like somewhat of a spectrum to how it affects people. But for me, I can't identify a letter with a sound. So that analogy is perfect because they're like sounded out. I'm like, yeah, that's the part I can't do. For example, if you saw a word you've never seen before, like a street name or a last name or something like that, you could ballpark it pretty quick. For me, it might as well be like a picture I've never seen before.

I don't really have any idea how to say it. We heard a little bit of that in the clip from your standup routine. What was school like and how did teachers treat you? School was brutal. Kindergarten was great and then it was just the rudest of awakenings when I arrived in the first grade. Because I thought I was like normal and my kindergarten reviews were good, that I was sociable and I played well with others and all this stuff. And then like the first day of the first grade, all of a sudden I was in like a Charles Dickens

play where children were just treated terribly. So yeah, they were, they they just constantly accused me of being lazy or you know, stupid and my mom would come in and advocate for me. Basically that's how it went all the way through school and then they would put me in special ed and take me out of special ed and then special ed, even as a kid, I was like, oh, this is a waste of my time. Like the special ed curriculum would be like weaving and Christmas carols. And I was like, wow, this is not gonna prep me for anything. What just happened when you were talking about your mom?

I mean, she tells these stories of how, yeah, she would get these letters saying that you were lazy, that you weren't trying hard enough, and she would have to stand Up for you. You were just telling that story and it took your breath away. Oh, yeah, I it's so crazy that I get really emotional because I joke about it and I didn't realize how Kind of painful it was because I kind of got through it and You know finish school it was like, okay

I'm just never going to read or write again, which obviously that's not what happened. So when I revisit it, and I've been, I sold the book, I promoted the book, I work with an organization here in the States called Eye to Eye, which advocates for kids with neurodiversity and I cannot talk about my experiences in school without being emotional and I've done it in front of 300 people or 400 people or 500 people or I've done it one on one pitching the book or talking to you. Yeah, the pain is still there.

What really breaks my heart is that I got through school because of my, like my mom advocated for me. So it just, it just like stops me in my tracks when I think of a kid who doesn't have that. You write in the book about how you say you used to pray that you'd wake up smart. Yeah. I can't imagine what that would be like, because there's all sorts of things that you did to try to compensate and to try to hide your dyslexia. But as you're in school, one of the things that you want

is just to be a normal kid. And as you said, you had to kind of go to bed thinking, maybe if I do this, maybe if I put the right intention to it, I can wake up smart. Yeah, my sister who was also really helpful as a kid and to this day, she told me, you'd see something on a television show about a kid who's graduating school when they were like nine, like a Doogie Howser type situation.

And my sister told me about, yeah, some kids are just smart and they blow through school. So I would always pray that that would be the case when I woke up in the morning. It never came true. What happened in grade 12 though? Yeah, grade, so I went all the way through school and then in grade 12, just like a fluke luck, for some reason, the Durham school board had the funds and the means. And I was given exactly what I needed to get through school. And that was, I would do a period of school, I'd go to geography, then I would have one on one time with a special ed teacher, Mr. Armstrong.

And because of that, I excelled in school. I got like, I think my average was like 86% or something. It's amazing. But it was so crazy because it's like, and of course, my mom is, you know, not as outspoken as I am, but it was like, so exactly what she said the whole time was true. If I was given what I needed, then I would excel.

When you finished high school, I said this in the introduction, one of the things that you ended up doing was going to Italy and you went to Italy to become a model. Have a listen to this. I became a model. to become a model. Have a listen to this. I became a model. I was a model and people don't believe me, that's fine. But there was a fashion trend, it was a long time ago, it was called heroin chic and I remember hearing about it when I was a kid.

They're like, we want guys that look like they do drugs. And I'm like, look like you do drugs. I'm gonna do you one better. So how did the guy from Oshawa end up in Milan modeling like they do drugs and I'm like, look like you do drugs, I'm gonna do you one better. So how did the guy from Oshawa end up in Milan modeling for Dolce & Gabbana, you're in London, you're doing shoots for GQ, you were called what, a sick chicken by Giorgio Armani? Yeah, by Giorgio Armani, yeah. Well, so I grew up in Oshawa, Shalom Harlow, who is a huge supermodel and a dear, dear friend of mine. She kind

of just blew up instantly, left high school to become a supermodel. And after high school, I was visiting her and she just was like, why don't you try modeling? And it was the first, I had like within a week of her saying that that had swam with a t-shirt on at a pool party. Like I was not, that was not on the horizon for me at all. And I wanted to, I knew there was more to the world than Oshawa and I wanted to get, you know, travel and get out of Oshawa. And so I took her up on this opportunity. What did you learn about yourself in doing that? One of the things you read about in the book is you say, as a model, I could hide my dyslexia and be viewed as the smart person my parents always said I was.

Yeah, it was great to not have to face those challenges, but it was also a lesson in how all-encompassing dyslexia is because I was in Milan and all of a sudden I had to get around Milan to go to castings or if I booked a job to get to the job. And my reading was such that I couldn't identify where the name of the street ended. And then the beginning like, you know, it's not just like, you know, street or Avenue there, it's like Piazza and all this stuff. And it was a, I realized that dyslexia wasn't just going to be a problem in school. That it was going to be something that you had to deal with in real life, if I can put

it that way as well. Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But it was great to not, you know, I could hide it and no one knew that I was dyslexic. It's funny, I talk about it with such pride now. It completely changed. But I was very, I felt a lot of shame and I just didn't want people to know for so many years. And now it's like, you know, I bring it up when I'm, I'll be ordering lunch after this interview and it'll come up with the waiter type thing. I just talk about it all the time.

I'm Sarah Trelevin. And for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this?

From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now. It's interesting. You said you wanted to get away from Oshawa, but one of the things that comes out in the book is you learned a lot from your home. I spent a lot of time there and we were just there during the election and what have you talking to folks there. You learned about hard work from there. You know what I learned about hard work and I learned about comedy. I love my friends so much that I grew up with. And I was so, I was made to feel so bad in school and the schwa boys, I was just so celebrated for my humor, you know. So they were my first audience and I'm so grateful to them and I talk to them every single day.

I mean now we're talking about the playoffs or whatever, but yeah, I talk to someone from Osho every single day. When did you realize or when did they realize that you were funny? It's so funny because with my dyslexia, I wasn't good at anything that you could, you know, my skills didn't appear in a report card or a scoreboard or anything, but I knew what modeling did for me,

sorry, I'm answering your question in a roundabout way, but what modeling did to me was I met people like a photographer that was like, yeah, I got a camera when I was six and I knew that's what I wanted to do. And I'd meet a stylist who had gone to art school and knew that fashion was the direction I wanted to go. And I was wearing a pair of dockers being like, yeah, this was not my dream. And I was like, well, what is it that I'm really good at? And what is it that I want to do? And I had booked a commercial for Pontiac and it felt like a huge deal to

me. And Sylvester Stallone did the voiceover, like it was like, whoa, this is big. And so I was like, well, maybe acting, maybe something like that. And I did an improv class in a church basement in King's Cross in London. And if anyone who's listening has ever done an improv class, it is a mixed bag of society. And I did it and in the first scene, I had a line and I got a pop from this cross section of humanity. And I realized, I was like, whoa, making these people laugh in the church basement makes me feel as good as making the schwa boys laugh in a basement in Oshawa. And it was this crazy eureka moment where I was like, oh, this is what I want to do. So I didn't know it was stand up.

I thought initially it was improv. So kind of that moment, I like wrapped up a relationship that I was in in England and I gave my friends a hug and headed to, my parents had in that time retired and moved from Oshawa to Vancouver. And I moved to Vancouver with just kind of an inkling that I wanted to do something comedy related. But you knew in that moment that that was what you wanted to do for the rest of your life. Well, I knew that that was the direction I should be going.

And then after my first time doing standup, I did this open mic in a room that it was so un-conducive with doing an open mic in Vancouver, just off Davie Street. And I remember walking back to see my sister, she was at the, you know, sitting in the back of the room to see my first set. And as I was walking back, I knew that was what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

It was so wild. It was like one of those things where, you know, people talk about like love at first sight and all that stuff. I knew, okay, that this is, it just fit. And it had been so many years of trying to find the thing. And stand-up is the first thing that the more I put into it, the more I get out of it.

And I had never experienced that. You talked about moving to Vancouver. That's where your parents were living and you moved from New York to Vancouver. And I mean, you're going through a bunch of difficult things at that time, trying to work through some stuff, including some personal issues and OCD and what have you. Tell me a little bit about,

it's easy to be derailed in life, and you have this ability, it seems like, of figuring out methods and practices to smash through that. How did you get through that? You know what? That is 100% because of dyslexia. It's so interesting that it was such a hurdle and such a painful thing.

And it made me be able to face these challenges. And yeah, I suffered from some mental illness and I say that to, you know, people will approach me, they'll reach out to me online or come to me after a show or, you know, people that I grew up with or, you know, have kids now and will tell me that their kid has been diagnosed with dyslexia and I'm always like, and I wish I could just like, I'd like to scream this from the top of a Skytraper in New York City. It's like, if your kid is dyslexic, if you can maintain their self-esteem, and that's

what my parents did, then once they get out of school, they can face these challenges that most people aren't prepared for because you're nine years old and you're dyslexic and you go to school every day. You have the grit of someone that's been divorced twice and recovering alcohol. Like you've been through it at a really young age. You do a lot of your performances in front of kids who also have dyslexia and you've said that I mean in some ways that's like being Bob Hope performing in front of the troops. What does that do for you when you do that? Yeah, this will make me emotional for sure. This is what is so tough.

So I do a version of my act when I get an opportunity to talk to kids that are dyslexic. And what breaks my heart is after, you know, I'll do stand up, they'll do like a Q&A. And instead of being like, hey, do you know Amy Schumer? What's Kevin Hart like? Their questions are always, how are you not ashamed to be dyslexic? Because I, you know, I talk about it and it just breaks my heart because it's like, it's such nothing to be ashamed of because it's, it's, it's, when do people feel shame about facing adversity? Like, these kids are, and they talk to me about their studying methods and they're like, they figure it out themselves.

They're like, well, I can learn how to, I can learn to spell a word if I sit down with like a giant piece of like Bristol board or cardboard and write it out really big. And then I like, you know, memorize it. And they just work so hard to just do okay. And they feel so much shame and it just breaks my heart. And so I always try to challenge them. I have no shame. I go to a post office where I know the woman is really cool and I could show her the screenshot

of the address on my phone where I need to send a letter and she writes it out and I have no shame. But it took a long, long, long time to get there. This is the challenge that you asked and you say go a whole week without hesitating to ask for help. Yes, that's what I say because I know, I know this. If you struggle in spelling, you're going to excel in something else. So it's like, you're going, the person that's helping you spell, you're better than them in something else. And maybe it's being personable and maybe it's you're kinder than that person or better with building things or I just know that

that's, that's how it works. So, um, I mean, talk about being emotional. I could get very emotional thinking of these kids that are, that face these challenges every day. It's a real struggle to go to school every day. And when they do that, they're very brave people that should be filled with pride. Tell me about the bravery that is required for someone with dyslexia to go into a recording booth and record the audio version of your book. Oh, man, that was so I, I wrote the book. And, you know, from the beginning of the concept to when it was, you know, came out, it was it was eight years. And I was aware that there

was going to be an audio book coming in and I just didn't allow myself to kind of think about it. and then once the book was done it was time to do the audiobook and there was an option to get an actor to do it but I knew I'm really a perfectionist and very hell- bent on things being the way that I want them to be if it's part of you know something that I've created and so I just knew it would kill me to have an actor not land my jokes. So I decided to go in and do the audio book,

but it was harder than writing the book because I can write on my own time, but the audio book, you have to read it and it has to be conversational. And I've never read anything conversational in my life. I had a great guy whose name is Guy, who worked with me from my publisher and he was just phenomenal and directed me and patiently.

You know, normally someone does an audio book in a couple of days, it took me 72 hours, which meant for three hours of recording, I could do three hours at a time. I would prep for three hours. So I would read, I would highlight, I would mark where commas were. And yeah, it was a wild, wild, wild process.

What do you feel like you learned about yourself in doing it? I mean, I learned that I could do it and I learned a lesson that I've learned so many times that I can do these things that seemed impossible and it just takes time, but I have time. I'm so grateful that I did do the audiobook because for me, it seems so hypocritical to write the book and then to be pleading with kids not to feel ashamed about dyslexia and begging parents to maintain their kids self-esteem and guaranteeing that if they do that, that their kid will be successful and find something that they love to do and stuff like that or do my best to guarantee that and then be like, yeah, but not audiobooks.

So I thought it was really important that I record the audiobook and I'm really grateful that I had the right support cast to allow me to do that. Throughout this conversation, you have been really open and emotional and you get busted up about things. It's just, that's uncommon for a lot of guys to be that raw and speaking about something in this vulnerable sort of way. And I just wonder where you think that comes from. It's funny because I, you know,

I've talked about the book so much. I was in my cab on the way to the studio today to talk to you. And again, I was so excited to do some Canadian press for the book. I was like, I don't think I'll be emotional this time, but of course I was. I have no shame. I mean, I'm proud that I'm able to speak about it now and I'm really proud of the book and that it's done. And yeah, I feel those things. And I think it's, I don't think there's any shame in that, but also I really want people to know what people who are neurodiverse,

what we go through. And I mean, I think me getting emotional is kind of exhibit A of what that is because that this is all stuff that happened to me many, many years ago. Now, you know, I have people to help me and stuff like that, but yeah, it was really painful for a long, long period of time. And now it's not something that you need to hide anymore? Not only do I not need to hide it, it's, I'm celebrated talking about it. Like it's remarkable. I was just, I played Tampa last weekend and the late show on Saturday, I went on stage

at probably quarter after 11. It was the day of the Kentucky Derby. A lot of people had been drinking since the afternoon and somehow they're engaged when I'm telling jokes about being dyslexic. They say one in 10 people in society are dyslexic and you know, you know, they say one in ten People in society are just like so maybe a portion of the crowd was you know struggled with Dyslexia or a learning disability of some sort but for some reason it's it's it's interesting and and engaging So not only do I not feel shame in it. It's it's it's something that's you know celebrated with laughter every

Every time that I get on stage and talk about it. It's a real pleasure to talk to you. The book is fascinating, your story is great, but just also who you are and what you're doing with who you are and what you've been through is really quite something. So congratulations on that. Thank you so much. I was so excited to speak to a Canadian and do some Canadian press.

And I'm here in New York City, a little bit homesick after we spoke. But yeah, thank you so much for having me on the show. It was really an honor. Your story is going to mean a lot to a lot of kids who are listening. So thanks again. Thank you. Phil Hanley is a Canadian comedian based in New York. His new book is called Spellbound, My Life as a D comedian based in New York. His new book is called Spellbound. My life as a dyslexic wordsmith. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.