The Current - For some Albertans, this election is all about national unity

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

Many Albertans say they don’t feel understood or appreciated by the rest of Canada, but as U.S. tensions deepen, so too do conversations about national unity. As part of The Current’s election series, Crossroads: Coast to Coast with Canadian Voters, Matt Galloway travels to Red Deer in the heart of Alberta, to hear what matters most to voters in this election.Galloway visits a fracking site, a wind farm and a cattle farm to talk to voters who say Canada isn’t making the most of its natural resources, and is ignoring an “amazing opportunity to feed and fuel the world.” At a cafe where newcomers take English lessons, there’s optimism that Canada is one of the best places to live on earth, but fears that we’ve forgotten how to talk to each other. And in a staunchly Conservative area, one voter shares what it’s like to be an NDP supporter.Then, three oil and gas workers share what they think the rest of the country gets wrong about their industry — and their province. And political strategists Shannon Phillips and Michael Solberg dig into the impact of Trump’s threats and tariffs, and whether Edmonton-born Liberal Leader Mark Carney is gaining any ground from Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre.

So Canada, we've got to choose a new prime minister and it's a pretty crucial time. Even people who don't normally follow politics are trying to figure out what the heck is going on. I'm Catherine Cullen, host of The House, and I started a new weekly election show with two friends and fellow political nerds. Hello, I'm Daniel Thibault bringing you the Quebec Point de Vu. I'm Jason Microsoft and Calvary bringing the takes and stakes from the West. Together, we are House Party, a weekly elections podcast for everyone.

We tackle one big burning question every Wednesday. Find us in the House's feed wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. We're really good. Hey, I'm Matt. Nice to meet you. Welcome to Red Deer. Thank you very much.

So we are at a little bowling alley slash a pizza joint called The Gutter. It's really busy. Yeah, it's a great little local spot. It's league night at The Gutter. Lots of people come here. The pizza's really good. The bowling teams are rolling strikes. Mike Wiseman is here for the pizza and to give us his pitch about Red Deer.

I grew up in Red Deer. I was born and raised here. It's famous for its natural trail system through the city. We have a great little ski hill on the edge of town. It's a very family-friendly community. We're here on our election road trip in the heart of Alberta, halfway between the big cities of Calgary and Edmonton, to talk and to listen to what people here have to say about what matters to them in this election.

Housing's a big one for me, obviously. It's still affordable here, but we're starting to see a little bit of a squeeze, especially in the rental market. Have you decided who you're going to vote for yet? I certainly have. And I'm not going to share it with you guys. You got to play player card saved.

People here will tell you that this part of the country often feels left out and underappreciated on the federal stage, that their fellow Canadians don't understand them. And as tensions with the United States grow deeper, so do conversations about national unity and Canada's natural resources. And that is where we begin, in the oil fields of central Alberta. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current In Alberta. It's crossroads, coast to coast, with Canadian voters. Down a gravel road through farmers' fields north of Red Deer, we are arriving at the

historic Leduc Oil Fields. This is where it all started. The discovery of oil here changed everything for this province, and many booms and busts later, crews are still at it. So just so you know, we're responsible for the safety of everyone on our site. This is a fracking site run by Aspen Leaf Energy. Before heading out to get up close, there's some safety training and getting suited up in protective gear. Alright, coveralls, hard hats, goggles, and then a drive to the site.

The company's founder and CEO, Brian Gould, is showing me around and giving us a rundown of their operations. We are taking you to a well site. They produce 25,000 barrels of light oil a day from three oil fields, and this one here that we're at is the biggest. In the stage where we do what we call fracking. Fracking involves injecting high pressure water into the reservoir to crack the rock, and that crack allows the oil and gas that's trapped in the reservoir to crack the rock. And that crack allows the oil and gas that's trapped in the reservoir to flow towards our well where we collect it and pump it up to the surface.

So we're here on the site and it's, I mean, we drive through these fields and suddenly you arrive in a large industrial site and there are tanks here. There's operations that happen here with lights presuming it's 24 hours seven days a week fire shooting out of a pipe and a lot of activity. You lead, we'll follow you. We're going into what we call the brains of the the frac operation they can see what's going on live so we'll go in there. Hey guys. How large of an operation is this?

This is a really big one as you can see up here this is a drone view of our site so yeah there's a lot of moving components out here. I mean one of the things we're doing is we're kind of coming out here to talk to people because there's an election underway. What do you think is in this vote, what do you think is at stake when it comes to this industry? Our country.

Our country, yeah, I do. What do you mean by that? I mean by jobs, I mean by our country being able to supply itself, being a powder house like we used to be. I feel we need a fair shake. I don't think we get a fair shake out here. Election's over before we have a chance to vote. We're already out of it, right?

So what does that do to people out here? Like a really sour taste in your mouth, right? Like everything we do out here as far as extra cash all goes back that way. So it's like feeding the cow. The cow gets fed out here and the milk all goes east, right? So I don't know how else best to describe it. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thank you. Get back to work now. And then after the tour we climb into a trailer. There's a sticker just inside the door it reads loyal to oil. So we have been through the site we are early in this federal election.

Brian Gould, which is the party that speaks best to what you believe this industry needs? So for me the best party that speaks to it frankly is Pierre Poliev. I see it as a crossroads frankly where we either leverage the great strengths and the bounty that we have as a country, or we put barriers in place, don't realize our potential, and that can have really dramatic unity impacts in a negative sense. What does Pierre Pauli have said that you think would support this industry to do what you want it to do?

So you might ask, what's getting in our way? And I would say there's just a rat's nest of regulations and rules that are virtually impossible to penetrate and not just like what and not just for oil and gas so you have the impact assessment act there's the tanker ban there's bans on using plastics so there's impediments both in terms of developing the resources building the infrastructure accessing the capital that's required for the industry and There's impediments both in terms of developing the resources, building the infrastructure, accessing the capital that's required for the industry, and actually a vilification

of the use of the products themselves. So it's like death by a thousand cuts. The thing that I frankly have the most concern over, and I've read Mark Kearney's book, Values, and he clearly states, his view is leave the oil in the ground. What's wrong with that? There are a lot of people in this country who would say that they would come to a site like this and they would see a site like this as being the problem. They would say leave it in the ground. Yes and what I would say to them is fundamentally the modern world works on energy, steel, cement, plastics and fertilizers. All are based on fossil fuels. And so we, I just cannot

understand why we want to strangulate ourselves from reaching our potential. The world will not transition off of fossil fuels anytime soon. And we have this amazing opportunity to feed and fuel the world. Mark Carney is from Alberta, grew up in Edmonton, but also is somebody who in this campaign has said that he supports looking at new pipelines, has supported looking at energy infrastructure. What in what he is saying do you think does not go far enough? So what does not go far enough for me is he says that, but he's come out the other day and said he will stand by Bill C-69, the Impact Assessment Act, which by the way has been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. He talks about

taking away the consumer carbon tax but putting on an even larger more punitive industrial carbon tax. Daniel Smith also supports the industrial carbon tax. Ah, but not to the level that Mark Carney does, right? And he has dedicated the last decade plus of his life to strangle the industry's access to capital and insurance. I'm definitely fearful that that's the actual game plan. I'll ask you about another player in this election, the Premier, Danielle Smith. She put out a list of demands for whoever becomes the Prime Minister and said that if those list of demands including looking at it lifting emissions caps, looking at unfettered cross-country access

to build pipelines, if that list of demands is not accepted, within six months she said there would be a national unity crisis. Do you worry about the language there? There's nothing on that list per se that I think is egregious or wrong. We can debate the language. I would suggest to you though that the premier is actually representing this anger beneath the surface in the province, right?

And to quote the old network movie, people want to stick their head out the window and say, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. And that is a very strong sentiment here. And I, by the way, I thank you for coming here today to see this perspective because this dialogue is exactly what's required. But people are feeling beaten up, unappreciated, talked down to, and it feels like we're looked at as the deplorables, the polluters, and the Neanderthals, and people are so proud of what we do here. I think you've seen it on our site today.

We don't actually need people to say thank you, but it would be nice if people could at least stop throwing rocks at us. But do you feel like she's defending the interests of Alberta? Because there are people outside of this province who, when they see her travelling to Mar-a-Lago, working with people in the Trump administration, they've called her a traitor. I think that is so hurtful. You can disagree with her approach, but please don't call her a traitor because she is as passionate as a Canadian as you will find.

Do you think it's helpful that she talks about a national unity crisis in a moment when it feels like the country is kind of coming together in a way that it hasn't in a long time? So I think we are on the precipice of a national unity crisis. If people in this part of the country believe that their case is hopeless and the battle against fossil fuels not just continues but intensifies, If they get that sense, there's a sense of hopelessness. That's what's fueling this. It's not anger.

It's a sense of hopelessness. Premier Smith and others are simply trying to say to Canadians, please be aware of this. I think it's important for Canadians to know just how great the angst and frankly the pain is here. People talk about team Canada,

but they don't know how to deal with it. important for Canadians to know just how great the angst and frankly the pain is here. People talk about Team Canada, but it doesn't feel like this is a team. One of the other people that's not on the ballot but is certainly influencing what's going on is Donald Trump, President of the United States. You were at his inauguration, is that right? I was in Washington. You were in Washington? I was not at the inauguration.

You were in Washington during the inauguration? Yes. What do you make of what he's doing this talk of a 51st state of taking over Canada? What do you make of what Trump has done? So there's many layers to this first off. I'm Canadian not American I mean I look and think some of the policies he advocates for I think are sensible and make sense like what I think Cutting government waste makes a lot of sense. I personally don't believe in identity politics. I think that pendulum has swung too far. Other matters, I completely disagree with the man, okay? I do not agree with tariffs. I don't appreciate him calling us the 51st state.

How do you think Canada should respond to to those threats? I think getting into a tit- tit for tat, we'll tax you, you tax us, we battle each other is a race to the bottom and I think there's a smarter way to do this and frankly I think Premier Smith is trying to work on that smarter approach. What I would tell you doesn't make sense is making egregious claims of things as Premier Ford that we're going to cut off their energy. I would suggest to you with Donald Trump in the party we should spend a little more time to understand

what is he really getting at. That's the essence of making a deal and we can act as the mature adult in the room on that. So just to be clear on that score you don't mean one of the things that has been said is that if we are going to be attacked we need to have as they say everything on the table in terms of a possible response. Doug Ford, the Premier of

Ontario, has talked about energy. Former Premier of Alberta, Jason Kenney, has said that everything, including looking at turning off the taps here, should be on the table. You disagree with that? I disagree with that. Tell me this. Okay, so Premier Ford cuts off electricity to the US. All of the oil and gas that goes to Ontario and Quebec comes through the United States. So who is going to win that battle? So we are going to cut off their electricity and they are going to cut off your oil and gas.

And everyone loses. So do you want people being harmed, freezing on either side? I could not conceive of cutting off vital energy to anyone, regardless of the battle over politics. That to me is inhumane. Somebody outside of the industry might say that the reason that you're concerned is because there's a lot of money at stake. That that conversation impacts the industry itself.

You could say that, but I mean, I'll tell you about my company. I was retired. I started this company out of retirement, putting my own investment capital in because I'm passionate about supplying energy to the world. What do you think is at stake in this election? go down a path of increasing hostility and I'm conscious of that could go in a very bad way, but in a positive way. If we do this right, this can be incredibly nation-building. I've never seen and I don't think in my lifetime, since the 72 hockey series perhaps, I don't think I've seen as much passion for this country. This could be a turning point where this could be the golden age for Canada going forward. Brian, thank you very much. Brian Gould is the CEO of Aspen Leaf Energy.

Heading south towards Red Deer, there are plenty of pump jacks and drill rigs, but they're not the only silhouettes on this prairie skyline. Wind turbines and solar farms are also part of the scenery here, generating power from the provinces Chinook winds and sunny skies. I'm Dan Balaban. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Green Gate Power. We've been developing some of the largest renewable energy projects in Canadian history right here in the heart of oil country. Just at the gate. That's pretty cool, you can hear it. Yeah so we're here in the middle of the Halkirk wind project which is in

central Alberta about 150 kilometers east of Red Deer. It's a beautiful prairie landscape and yeah it's winds blowing the turbines are spinning and I like the sound of the wind and the sound of the turbine spinning you know you're producing energy today and clean energy. This wind project has a total producing capacity of 150 megawatts you know to put that into perspective that translates into producing enough energy to power the equivalent of 75,000 homes for a year. He's watching the federal election campaign closely and hopes leaders will into producing enough energy to power the equivalent of 75,000 homes for a year. He's watching the federal election campaign closely and hopes leaders will think big about the future of Canadian energy resources.

You know, energy is highly polarized. The discussion seems to be framed in a oil and gas versus renewables, but I really think it's an end. We should be developing our oil and gas and our renewable energy resources. And unfortunately, the political polarization on this topic is preventing development in both areas. From an oil and gas perspective, large amounts of regulation are preventing development of the industry. You know, and here in Alberta, you know, recent changes to the regulations around renewables have really stalled the growth of that industry and are not allowing us to realize the potential.

So you've got these two, you know, highly polarized sides battling it out over energy versus climate. And in the meantime, the renewable energy industry has caught the crossfire. There's also a lot of farmland as far as the eye can see. And we stop in to visit Jennifer Miller on her cattle farm. Howdy. Hi. How are you? Things are well, the sun is shining.

Yeah. We just have two fresh newborns out on pasture Howdy. Hi. How are ya? Things are well. The sun is shining. Yeah. We just have two fresh newborns out on pasture that we were checking out. Life is good. So we're headed down. This is like sort of the main farm where all of the cows are during calving season. Made as much mud and muck as I could for you guys. These are all cows that are pregnant and are expected to calve or have calved.

It is beautiful. How big is your farm? I have about 60 cow-calf pairs that I calve this year and I'm considered an itty bitty. It's still kind of amazing, right? The whole process, the calving process. It doesn't get old. Yeah. What's special to you about it?

I guess, like Canada grows some of the best beef in the world and you know, I can give these animals that one-on-one attention and I can provide them with fresh, clean air, fresh water, healthy feed, you know, and I just believe that if I look after them they will in turn look after me and I just think it's my responsibility to give them everything that I can. It's a 365 day responsibility, so you're definitely invested, your heart's invested in it.

It's not just your pocketbook. And I find that with like, you know, the upcoming election and Trump and, you you know the tariffs and all of our inflation, cost of living, it snowballs, it accumulates. I know when Trump announced that he was going to enforce the tariffs, I mean I physically took a big inhale, I gasped because we're dependent on US imports and exports. And so, I mean, right now the beef market is strong, but a tariff slapped on beef, that's definitely gonna impact my bottom line

and my margins are always slim. And so that determines, am I able to thrive or am I just sort of getting by? Am I gonna dip into the red? Am I gonna stay in the red? My concern is not only just sort of like for my own little self in my own little world, but the next generation.

Like what kind of a situation am I leaving for my kids? It's really stressful to think about. It is stressful to think about. Given what you're talking about, what do you want to hear from the people who want to lead this country? I want to see Canada really celebrate, like some of the beautiful assets we have are people. They want to roll their sleeves up. They want to get to work.

They want to get to work. They want to generate growth. And here we are in a land of natural resources that aren't being utilized. I mean, we're surrounded by it. Like, what an opportunity. You know, and just stop taxing us, please. You know, like it's just endless taxing. We need to limit how much we're gonna take from our hard-working Canadians and you know action. We need to get some action in place. Who's gonna bring the action? Do you know who you're gonna vote for? I do know who I'm gonna vote for. Will you tell me? I'm voting blue. Conservative? Yes. I feel like I feel like we need to make a change and honestly quite frankly I feel like I've been lied to. About what?

Just a variety of things that you know and the inflation and I feel like there's been a lack of accountability for some of the situations that Canada is now in and I feel like why would I vote for more of this? The Liberals are pitching Mark Carney as change. And you mean somebody who grew up in Edmonton and has ties to this province. Why is he not the change that you're looking for? I don't feel like Carney is change.

I don't feel like he is new. I feel like he's another version of the old guy. We're traveling across the country talking to people in various places about, and we were saying, you know, Canadians explaining themselves to each other. What do you think people outside of this province need to know about Alberta? I don't think you know how much we've been hurting. Being a working folk, it's been a real struggle. You know, we're in a real financial pickle and we're going to need a leg up.

We don't need a handout, but we need a leg up. How old are your kids? I have a 16 year old daughter and a 20 year old son. You think they'll follow you into this? I think they have a lot of appreciation for it. They know it's not easy and they know we're the little guys fighting to hold their ground here as a small beef producer. I would love for them to have the opportunity and to like have success

with it. I would love to see them have sustainability and growth and a positive bright future. Nothing would make me prouder. It's Jennifer Miller, cattle farmer here in central Alberta. You're listening to a special edition of The Current. We are in central Alberta on our election road trip, Crossroads Coast to Coast with Canadian voters. Coming up, I'll talk to voters in Red Deer about what matters to them and Alberta's place in Canada. In the fall of 2001, while Americans were still grappling with the horror of September 11th, envelopes started showing up at media outlets and government buildings filled with a white, lethal powder, anthrax. But what's strange is if

you ask people now what happened with that story, almost no one knows. It's like the whole thing just disappeared. Who mailed those letters? Do you know? From Wolf Entertainment, USG Audio, and CBC podcasts, this is Aftermath, the hunt for the anthrax killer. Available now. This is Aftermath, the hunt for the anthrax killer. Available now. This is Matt Galloway, he's from the CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. He's from The Current, and he just wanted to come and say hi to you guys this morning.

Hello everybody. How's the class going? Good. Excellent. Okay, let's do one more word, and then we're going to have coffee. I'm in Red Deer, the second stop in our election road trip, talking with voters about what matters the most here. Hi, is Richard here?

I'm Matt. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having us here. How is he? Thanks. Tell us where we are. We're at the Runway Cafe at Cannes West Travel

in the heart of downtown Red Deer. Tell us about this place and what makes it so special. We have an open door to anybody that wants to come in here, which ends up being a lot of newcomers to Canada, a lot of newcomers to Red Deer. We started doing English as a second language as a spinoff from a Wednesday barbecue that we started at my house about 17 years ago. And they come Monday to Friday mornings and they don't pay, our volunteers don't get paid, but everyone just loves coming and just being here. A lot of people that are homeless come in here as

well just to have a place to come. Why did you open the door like that? I think that if we are going to be in the heart of downtown Red Deer, we should invest in the entire community. We bought this building about 15 years ago and in our heart was just to make this a place where people could come and feel welcome. What do you love about Red Deer? It's that it's a hundred thousand people, so it's still small enough to go over to Superstore and every single time you're going to find someone you know to talk to. And yet at the same time, the city's of a size where we can try pioneering things and

trying new things. We're here because the election's underway and it seems like everybody's plugged in and dialed in with the vote. What about you? With the election, absolutely. It's quite funny. I was just thinking about it this morning. My social studies teacher in grade 9, it was election season, and he told us it doesn't really matter who the conservatives run in Red Deer.

They could run a donkey and the donkey would win. And we've got a candidate here that's far more progressive and sort of leaps and bounds ahead of a donkey, that's for sure. And, you know, I'm pretty sure he'll have no problem winning the seat and he'll have absolutely no problem representing Red Deer to the best of his ability, I know that. What's the big issue for you in this election? I would really say it's to get back to listening to the people of Canada. It's not just a portion of the people of Canada, but the entire community. I know that from the perspective of the people that I work with often,

which is these newcomers, their voices aren't being heard right now. And I think there's a good number of people in this city who would agree that their voices aren't being heard also, even though they were born in this country, and really feel a part of being Canadian. It's a tense time in the country right now. Are you optimistic? I'm just looking above your shoulder and you have a copy of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms

on your shelf there. Are you optimistic about the future of this country? Oh absolutely. Canada is still one of the best places, if not the best place on earth to live, I'm sure of that. And I have great hope, I have great faith in what this country has in store and what we can achieve not just for ourselves but for the world. Thanks for having us here. You're welcome Matt, thanks. Hi Matt. How are you? Nice to see you. Nice to see you, thanks.

Thanks for coming here. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it. Stephen Maradue is here on his lunch break. He's a middle school teacher here in Red Deer and in a city that votes blue, his lawn sign is orange. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here.

We've been here in Red Deer talking to people. What's the general feeling in Red Deer about this federal election? It's been quiet to say the least. I like a lot of recent federal elections, you know. I think that there's definitely some appetite for change but I mean the slow pace of candidates putting their name forward has led to it being quiet so far I'd say. Quiet because essentially there's just I mean there maybe is more than one but not a full slate of candidates. When you drive around town, you just see conservative signs. When we talk to people, what we've heard is they're really just talking about the conservatives.

Yeah. I mean, the conservatives did just have a nomination race featuring three fairly well-known local people. That definitely got more people talking, I think, than the actual voting period now. What to you is the most important issue in this election? Well, speaking of the election around here historically being not very competitive, the number one issue for me is how to make people's votes count. And right now we have a system that only counts your vote for your local representative in your riding.

There's other ways of doing things. What is it like to be an NDP supporter in Red Deer? I've always considered myself not so much the hopeless, idealistic, you know, optimistic progressive in that sense. Sure, there's issues that we'd love to see the government make better headway on in terms of cost of living and support for social programs and public services and those kind of things. But at the same time, I mean, you just know that you're not the majority in any shape of the word, right? So, you know, in past campaigns, I mean, you hear anecdotal stories and see visual evidence on the side of roads of NDP signs that are smashed to bits, you know, and the conservative signs sitting right beside them is pristine,

untouched, you know? What will you do if, I mean, you want to vote NDP, but there is not an NDP or in your words, a credible NDP candidate here, what will you do if there's not a candidate that represents the party that you want to vote for? There's one other party that has a Democratic reform on their policy books. Which party is that? That would be the Green Party. In that case I would look for the party that most strongly supports public services. You know, post-secondary is another big one with a major polytechnic university college set up here in Red Deer.

You know, my family is my own children, right? By the next election cycle, we'll be looking at post-secondary education. So that would be another issue I would look at the policies on and then decide how to vote. Just finally, what's at stake in this election? Without getting too overwrought about it, right? I mean, it is very much a values test, I think, right? And I totally get supporting a Canada first approach at this point but I think that

in some sense you know the future direction of our country's economy in terms of the fact that we're losing a major trading partner essentially you know it's slipping through our fingers as we speak the direction that we take with that those resources is very much up in the air. We'll let you get back to class. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Well from the Runaway Cafe we're headed across town to meet some young voters. We're at the library at Red Deer Polytechnic. I like this area with the couches, very comfy. There are about 10,000 students here. It's a great place to study.

They're busy getting ready for final exams and some students are also getting ready to vote. My name is Keira Gamlin. I'm a student in the Bachelor of Arts program for Multidisciplinary Studies and I'm hoping to go into Library Sciences. I voted once in a federal election. I voted NDP but I'll probably be switching up this year. I'm leaning towards Liberal just because there's a greater chance they'd actually get into

office. Like recently, Carney has made some comments about how we're gonna deal with the United States and saying that we're not going to back down from him, and I think that's a good way of dealing with it. I'm not a fan of what Danielle Smith has been, how she's been reacting to this whole situation with the United States. I think she's been working against the other provinces instead of working with them and taking more of an American side to further her own agenda. And I'm part of the LGBT community so I think it's important how politicians are dealing with issues with LGBTQ plus youth, specifically trans youth, and I'd prefer to vote for somebody who is working to uplift young children who are dealing with their identities.

You know the price of living and the price of things, especially as a student, I have a lot of expenses and not a lot of income, it's kind of getting ridiculous. Especially like they're putting up tariffs and we're tariffing back again and it's like bad for everyone. I'm Charlie, Charlie Ing-Martin, studying engineering. I'm definitely voting, Probably for a conservative. There's a lot of factors, but at least right now, it is very financially draining.

And trying to not have that far of like, the climb out of a hole when I'm done. And it's just harder when even just buying basic groceries, really expensive. I just think the like, lower taxes would benefit me more. I mean it's unlikely that my area is ever going to vote the way that I vote, but that's okay. My vote still counts and I'm still going to put it in anyways. Not voting at all isn't going to fix it. We all get a little bit of a voice. If don't use it at all that's not helping anything.

This city is a hub for businesses that service the oil and gas industry. Businesses like Dark Star Production Testing. We offer production testing and frac flowback services for the oil and gas industry in central Alberta. What does that mean for people who have no idea what you're talking about? So when we're completing drilling and completing oil and gas wells here in Alberta, so post drilling we come out just before the frac and during the fracking operations we're here to relieve any surface pressure and then once the frac is done we do our initial evaluation and flow back so we actually bring the wells into production and generally get them

online so we do the first certificate of the well. Busy? Not as busy as we used to be. Okay, why is that? There's just been a pretty significant downturn in the last few years. a pretty significant downturn in the last few years. We never really bounced back as we had post pandemic. It's been a slow climb. A lot of the work has gone up north. A lot of the bigger clients in central Alberta has kind of slowed down quite a bit. Jeff Rowe owns this place.

And like many people here, he's worked in the oil industry since he was a teenager, age 17 to be exact. And he's invited us into his maintenance shop to chat. Well actually we invited ourselves in. Along with two other people, Brian Richards, he started working in oil right out of high school. He's now a chemical application associate that helps treat pipelines and corrosion and bacteria. And Chris Semenyuk is a fourth-generation oil worker who also started in his teens. He's now president of Payscore.

It's an app that helps oil service companies and all three are voting conservative. Jeff start with you. Just tell me a little bit about why you got into this industry and why you stayed in this industry. Well I was in high school and I think minimum wage is about $4.30 and it was 1992 and we had a frat crew heading through and they were talking about these minimum wages up north at about $14.60. That's a big difference. Yeah, it was massive and I figured I could be retired by the time I was 25 so I hopped

in my Toyota Corolla, drove up to Grand Prairie and went knocking on doors and I eventually landed at a service company which happened to be the same service company that my dad worked for in red gear. The oil and gas industry got into my blood and I really enjoyed it. I've had a really long and

exciting journey ever since. What about you? Technically I'm third generation. The fourth is up and coming. But I come out of Saskatchewan as a farm boy and a buddy said let's go to Alberta and work in the oil field.

They pay better out there. Came out as a heavy equipment operator, turned into plant operator, that turned into projects and just kind of chased the opportunities as it came along. Brian? Just out of high school and didn't know what I wanted to do. My parents didn't necessarily and just kind of chase the opportunities as it came along. Brian? Just out of high school

and I didn't know what I wanted to do. My parents didn't necessarily want me to continue the farming tradition. So I didn't want to go to college and the oil patch just seemed like a good place to go. It's been 32 years now. What do you love about what you do? Basically everything.

Obviously the money is good. For a guy out of high school with no education. But I like the people. I like working outside. There's really not much about it I don't like. How do you think people outside of the province of Alberta think about people in this province who work in oil and gas?

Jeff. I think that there's currently a bit of a stigma around the industry. I think that a lot of people don't understand how conscientious we are in our production. In the last 30 years I've seen the industry change dramatically and advance in our methods and the ethical production I guess. What do you think the stigma is? Well I think that there's been a big push with the climate agenda that kind of paints a stigma that oil and gas production is a negative.

I think a lot of people discount the fact that we understand here that we are a transitionary fuel as we move forward with new energy sources. Eventually, we know we're going to be phased out, but we are a very, very key part of the economy and developing new technologies moving forward. forward. I know

back to the stigma, a lot of us got into this industry because there was good paying jobs for minimal education coming in. I think that goes with a lot of blue collar industries, fisheries, logging, strong backs and start making in. I think that goes with a lot of blue collar industries, fisheries, logging, you know, strong backs and start making some money.

But I think what people quickly lose sight of is once you get past those bottom level labouring positions, how technical some of these jobs are. And as people move from the entry level into the trades or moving up in the different job roles, how much skill and on-site schooling that actually takes to do that work. What do you think, Brian? Does it bother you to have that stigma applied to you? Kind of.

For people to look at the oil patches just a bunch of knuckle-draggers is frustrating because we're not. We've got so much to offer out there. What's the big issue for you in this election? The economy. Personally, for us to get oil to. What's the big issue for you in this election? The economy. Personally, for us to get oil to somewhere other than the states. Carney just came out and said that he won't repeal that pipeline ban. And that just handcuffs us.

He's talked about how he believes that there needs to be new pipelines, or that at the very least he's open to conversations around new pipelines. We don't have the ability to get our product to market. I think one of the key driving factors for me here in this election is actually Canadian unity. Canadian unity. Yeah, I think that, you know, we've seen such a division in our country in the last 10 years,

and you know, an unfortunate consequence of the Donald Trump effect here is we owe a bit of gratitude that OCamn actually means something to them. And I hate seeing the industry being stigmatized and being used as a leveraging point. Now we have our provincial premier, Danielle Smith, who's entering into negotiations with our US trading partner, kind of on her own and we have the federal party that is leveraging this as a bargaining chip.

I think that if we can align that Alberta and federal policies align with our production abilities and our resource abilities where we have a conservative government aligned with conservative government, that's a stronger negotiating tool when sitting against Trump.

If we move forward with a liberal government that's opposed to a conservative government in Alberta, we kind of have a fractured bargaining position when we actually enter into these negotiations. I want to come back to the unity piece. Chris was waiting to say what his top election

issue is. For you, when you go and mark that ballot, what's going to be the thing that's going to drive you? back to the unity piece. Chris was waiting to say what his top election issue is. For you, when you go and mark that ballot, what is going to be the thing that is going to drive you? It is the past track record. I don't think Carney has done by any means, but after the last 10 years between the Liberal

Government calling small business owners tax cheats and taking away the income splitting, that was a kick in the guts. Killing energy in roundabout ways with the different pipeline acts that have come in and paperwork involved and just the level of bureaucracy has chased away investment. I mean we lost the northern gateway pipeline, the tanker ban, the Bill C-69. While it's not blocking new pipelines per se, it's adding so much bureaucracy nobody wants to deal with it. Does it matter that that government bought a pipeline? Yeah but it was such a cost overrun and such a debacle. Could have been up and running for half the cost of what they butchered it.

What do you make of what Pierre Poliev has offered? The energy corridor? I like that idea. Like, let's get something happening, streamlining these regulatory approvals. You're a Poliev fan. I mean, you're voting conservative. But is he somebody that you think is the right person for this moment? You know, he was running against Trudeau and that was his entire campaign when you bring the wild card of Carney and Because of the lack of substance and the lack of time to counter anything put forward by the liberals It's currently a mismatch

but Olivier's policies have always remained the same. The last point on Mark Carney is he's from Edmonton. He lived in a number of different places but was raised in Edmonton. Does that matter to folks in Alberta, do you think? I think the optics of if Carney would have ran for a seat in Edmonton, it would have brought a lot of support here that actually Alberta felt that they had a seat at the table. One of the big issues here is Alberta has been cut out of the discussion for many years. Our vote essentially doesn't mean anything.

One of the things we heard from somebody earlier is that the votes are still being counted here by the time essentially the election is called. 100% and I think it drives down voter turnout. What's the point in even going out to vote because by the time It crosses into Manitoba. The elections already been called You're talking about national unity Jeff and the importance of that in this election There's a column that was written in the Globe and Mail by Preston Manning former leader of the reform party who said Essentially that a vote for Mark Carney is a vote in some ways for Alberta separatism What do you make of that that that there is?

I mean Daniel Smith has talked about how if the demands that she has put forth aren't accepted by whoever becomes Prime Minister, there will be a national unity crisis. How strong is that sentiment here? Do you feel like people in Alberta would really consider getting out of the country because they think that their voice isn't being heard? It is a consideration. Is it an actionable consideration?

I don't think so. I think to have a referendum to separate would take 70% of the population. But you understand where that sentiment is coming from. Oh, absolutely. All three of you are nodding. Yeah, no, absolutely.

It is a national unity crisis. There is a portion out there that are right outraged. And there are ones out there, and I have some in my peer group, and although I disagree, and I don't think it's a pragmatic solution, but they are so revved up,

so feeling beat down, watching the amount of transfer payments that go to our province across the country that won't allow our pipelines to move our energy. You're talking about Quebec. Quebec, we'll call it out for what it is, won't let our energy out there, but then

they will allow energy from other countries to come in down the St. Lawrence. They see it as such a double standard that if you don't want to help us be successful, we can go be successful elsewhere. I will come back to the elsewhere piece in a moment.

What is that about? We have Saudi Arabia shipping oil into the Maritimes and into Quebec. If you look at their records, their human rights records, their environmental records, and compare it to ours, there's no comparison. But they have no issues bringing their oil in. Do you think Daniel Smith putting out a list of demands and saying there will be a national unity crisis, does that help with national unity, do you think think Jeff? I don't think that that's a threat I think

that that's an accurate statement. I think that there there has been such a polarization and I think that there's this has been framed as an East versus of the West and that's where I say again like we need unity and we need to go into this trade negotiation and this trade partnership equal. We have this huge export potential we're sitting on the third largest reserves in the world. If you do not think that that factors into Donald Trump's support to the Liberal Party, then that's just an astound statement. Do you think Donald Trump supports the Liberal Party?

I think that he supports us being at war with each other. I think it weakens our position at the table. He doesn't want us to have a uniformed approach to how we enter into this and if he can separate it by resources, which he is doing with the selection of the various tariffs that he's bringing in and the procession of doing it, it's all intentional and none of this is done without a lot of forethought. You said something interesting Chris, which is that you could understand why there are people who might think that if their lot wasn't best with Canada that they might be better off with somebody else. There is this idea and it's I mean the size of

the people the number of people who who support it is I think it's, I mean, the size of the people, the number of people who support it is, I think it's fair to say, not enormous. But it's more in this province than anywhere else. The number of people who talk about Canada joining the United States becoming the 51st state. Not Donald Trump gobbling us up, but it's the other way. Let's back that up. How long has Quebec talking been beaten a separatist drum?

So when Alberta does it, it's taboo and it's- I didn't say that it wasn't taboo in Quebec either. But it's anti-national, but Quebec's been pounding that drum for years. But there is a movement and how widespread it is in Alberta is up for debate. But I think there are more people here than elsewhere in the country who would be open to that idea. What is that about, do you think? If I was just trying to purely empathize, it's don't feel their voice is listened. How do we get beyond that then to Jeff's point if national unity is one of those big issues and

you're seeing this moment now where people in Quebec too are rallying around the flag in a way that they haven't in a long time. How do we how do we take that from just a moment and turn it into something and try to bring the country together do you think? We need to work together, get rid of these provincial trade barriers and quit the in-house fighting and use our energy internally for one example. Back to energy.

You are out here in Alberta. Why are we selling our product at a discount to the states, selling it at wholesale, yet Eastern Canada is buying it at retail to come in the other side? You wonder why Donald Trump is back in the centre corner. We put ourselves there. Are you optimistic about the future of this country? Eastern Canada is buying it at retail to come in the other side like it just you're you wonder why Donald Trump's back in a

Center corner we put ourselves there. Are you optimistic about the future of this country? You all have kids too, right? I'd like to be but I don't just watching how divisive it is You know with the campaign right now early April and we got four weeks to go with this I'd like to hear how both sides are gonna Mend fences which whichever one wins. Brian, how old are your kids? 21 and 19. When you think about the country that they'll inherit, what do you hope for?

I hope for a country like I inherited from mine. Lots of jobs, able to buy a house, able to go to school, prosper. But I don't know. I don't know if that's an option right now. It's scary out there for them. It's a hard thing to think about. What is it that that hits you about what your kids might face? The hardships, I guess. Yeah, they work hard. I don't know what they'll get and it's scary. What about for you, Jeff? I'm incredibly optimistic about the future of Canada. I think that we're going to go through hardship, but I believe in the long term, Canada has

so much potential. Canada has an incredible amount of potential unified. I think that we have a common threat right now. I think that there's been a massive wake-up call on why we need unity. It means more to be Canadian. And that's where I would like to see a larger alignment between conservative and liberal values. I would like to see us become more moderate.

We have been swinging so far from center on either side for so many years. We need to mend the fences. We need to become closer together, which I see it is happening. I see it happening faster under conservative government, but I do see it happening ultimately over a course of

time. I think the common sense will prevail and I think we need to be able to unleash our resources and we can be one of the most prosperous countries in the world if we are under the correct guidance, the correct direction, and we are be one of the most prosperous countries in the world if we're under the correct guidance, the correct direction, and we're all working together. I'm really glad to have the chance to talk to you all.

Thank you for being here, and thanks for taking the time to speak with us. Thank you. Thank you. Jeff Rowe is the owner of an oil service company called Dark Star Production Testing Limited. Brian Richards is a chemical application associate. He treats pipelines. And Chris Semenyuk is the president of Payscore. It is a chemical application associate. He treats pipelines. And Chris Semenyuk is the president of PayScore. It's a credit reference company.

Did you know that the best rye whiskey in the whole wide world is from right here in Red Deer? We have to go check it out. So just watch your step and be careful. It's kind of a working brewery. Have you guys been in breweries before? Hello again. I'm Matt Galloway in Red Deer, Alberta, and you're listening to The Current. We're on the road again for our election series Crossroads, coast to coast with Canadian voters. I'm at the Troubled Monk Brewery. This place is putting Red Deer on the map. Their rye whiskey was just named the best in the world.

It's called Grain Henge Whiskey. Good luck getting your hands on it. You know what's funny? It's kind of like your baby. Your baby is always the cutest, right? But is it really the cutest? Does everyone else think it's the cutest? So we always thought that this is really good special stuff and it tasted amazing.

But again, when a third party panel of judges confirms that it's amazing, that's that ultimate, like, you know that you've got something special. Charlie Bredo owns this place and for him, the US tariffs are personal. These cans are made out of aluminum. This has been what's really frustrating with the tariffs because these are going to go up by a couple of pennies each, which when you multiply it by all the cans you see here all year round, it adds up to a lot of money. So there are like thousands of cans that thousands that we're standing around right now. If it goes up by a couple of cents, how much more is that going to cost you to produce your product? Well,

it could cost us over a hundred thousand dollars a year when you look at the lids, the cans, and the volumes. So it's significant for a small business. So who eats that? Well, it's frustrating because in our line of work, the economy is maybe not as great as we'd like to see it. And so consumers are only willing to bear so much of a cost. And so in the short term, we're just going to kind of wait and see, try to absorb it ourselves. But it's eventually going to have to go out to the consumer and the price increases. What is it like? I mean, you're hanging on to one of those cans, you just pull it into

the middle of the stack, which I'm sure is safe because you're the boss and you can do that. But what is it like to know that these tariffs, it feels like they change day by day, minute by minute, you know what I mean? And you are at the receiving end of that. What is it like to be in that flow? You know, businesses hate uncertainty. And exactly what's been happening over the last number of months is you know this environment of

uncertainty and part of me think that's kind of the whole purpose of what they're trying to do is just create a lot of uncertainty in the market. It's it's really frustrating because not only do we not know what's gonna happen next we don't know how to react we got to manage rising costs. It's frustrating but at the end of the day it's business and I think you have to look at it a little bit, not optimistically, but you have to take it as a new challenge you have to solve, because otherwise it just becomes overwhelming, all the things that happen all the time that you can't control. Other people can control them.

I mean, there's an election underway right now. What do you want to hear from the people who want to lead this country about how they are going to tackle the tariffs that will impact the cost of the cans that we're surrounded by? You know I think that for whoever ends up leading the country and being our Prime Minister I think they just need to maintain that firm messaging that Canada and the US are friends. We've been friends for many many years and we need to figure out a way to maintain that relationship. The strong economic ties,

the trading lanes, all the positive synergies that our countries can do together. I think we need to tell that story and then hopefully the US administration will come around and back off on some of these tariffs. Thank you for having us here. Hey, it's been a real pleasure. Thanks so much for coming by. Congratulations on everything. Thanks again. Charlie Bredo is the owner of Troubled Monk Brewery, maker of the best rye whiskey in the world.

It's pretty good. I'm joined next by two political strategists in this province. Shannon Phillips is a former Alberta NDP cabinet minister and a partner at Meredith, Balzankul and Phillips. And Michael Solberg is a former staffer in Stephen Harper's Conservative government. He's a partner at New West Public Affairs. They are in our Calgary studio. Hello to you both.

Hello. Hello. Happy to be here. Good to have you here. Shannon, what is this election about for you? From what I can see, people have really moved from sort of being angry and frustrated about the inflation, the conditions of their lives, affordability to more of a position of fear and anxiety and precariousness and worried about the future.

That's what I am seeing the ballot question filtering into. That's why we're seeing the numbers the way that we're seeing them. That's why we're seeing the extraordinary shifts in public opinion in Ontario and Quebec and British Columbia and even a little bit here in Alberta. People are focused on the future, but it's a really uncertain future. It's not an aspirational future. And that's where the kind of the voter psyche is right now, I think. I'll come back to that in a moment. Michael, for you, what is this election about? Well, for me, and to be clear, my ballot box question might be different than the broader

electorate here, but for me, what I would like to see is a nation building government, a government that finally comes to the table and roots out inter-provincial trade barriers, builds pipelines on our coasts, expands our export market capacity to new nations, addresses our over-dependence on the US, militarizes in a way that we haven't seen for decades, have a Canadian military that stands on its own two feet and recognizes that we have a hostile US government south of us now, one that we can no longer rely on, and addresses those issues accordingly.

And I think that my viewpoint on this can no longer rely on and addresses those issues accordingly. And I think that my viewpoint on this is shared broadly by Canadians, but I want to see are domestic issues not thrown on the back burner as well. I want to see the affordability crisis addressed. I want to see the housing crisis addressed. I want to see income tax cuts, especially to the most vulnerable. And broadly speaking though, I think the Palo Alto's question is really just shaped up on one of those aspects, which is who can stand up convincingly and with authority to Donald

Trump and the random hostility that he's had towards Canada since at least January. Shannen, we've heard a lot while we've been here about that uncertainty. We've heard it from oil and gas workers. We've heard it from oil and gas workers. We've heard it from farmers. We've heard it from people in industries where they rely on, for example, aluminum to package the beer and the spirits that they sell in this province. What are you hearing about that uncertainty? What are people most afraid of right now? Well, they're afraid of the orange menace.

They're afraid of the uncertainty. He is the most powerful person in the're afraid of the uncertainty. I mean, he is the most powerful person in the world who commands the most sophisticated military that the human race has ever produced. And when he says that, I am going to annex you, that people listen to that, they hear it. Even in this fractured media environment, it punches through and it has aroused certainly a feeling of fear and anxiety, but also of pride, of patriotism. I get it in the grocery store. I get it everywhere I go.

I'm not even a politician anymore. People coming up to me to tell me how mad they are, to tell me how insecure they feel, to tell me what are we going to do to fight back against this. That to me is what is really focusing the mind of so many folks and you're seeing it across demographics but in particular in over 50 demographics. You're seeing this among voters and that's really interesting to me that they're swinging in the way they are and they're picking up on the signals coming from down south in a way that other demographics aren't Michael the Prime Minister liberal leader Mark Carney said that the relationship that we grew up with the relationship that we have had

For decades with the United States is over. Is he right? Yes, I think so. Well, evidently so look We're only a couple of months here into the Trump presidency and he's unleashed havoc on the relationship with Canada, a century-long relationship of peace and security, you know, open trading relationships. That's out the window. And that's also felt across the world. As the Prime Minister said, you know, he's not just destabilized his relationship with

Canada, he's wreaked havoc on the entire global economy. So no, I think he is right and we need to wake up to the reality that our friend and closest trading partner, military ally, may still be some of those things, but you know, he's destroyed, I think, a generation of goodwill and friendship between those two nations. And Now we need to proceed. By doing that, you need to consider, well, okay, what other trading relationships can we have? How do we militarize on our own? How do we create an independent economy?

Which new relationships on trade can we build with Asia, with Europe and otherwise? Trevor Burrus So from an Albert perspective, Michael, which party is getting that messaging right so far? I mean, we spent some time speaking with oil and gas workers, for example. They were saying what you've been saying, which is that it's time to think about pipelines across this country. It's time to think about energy security, as people say. But there are concerns go beyond that, but that's one of the things that those workers in those sectors particularly were looking for. Which party do you think is taking the future economic health and vitality of this country, which party is speaking most

directly about it in a way that would ring truest to people in this province? Matthew Feeney There is a massive incumbency advantage to the Liberals for being the technical government even during this writ period and addressing these things. Mark Carney can stand behind the government of Canada podium, not just as liberal leader Carney, but as Prime Minister Carney in speaking for the nation, speaking to Trump directly, still having the authority to make these types of decisions, convening kind of a wartime cabinet here. So if you're anyone else other than Mark Carney, you're having a hard time getting your message out in the same way because it's of course just not as impactful.

But if you are Mark Carney, you're also suffering from the incumbency advantage of having to wear a 10-year record that by all accounts was an unpopular one. You look at OECD data and GDP per capita, I think a lot of people certainly under the dome here like Shannon and I have seen these numbers, where Canada was ahead of only Luxembourg in terms of economic growth over that decade. So if you're Mark Carney, you're simultaneously taking advantage of your incumbency here in this moment, while also trying to distance yourself from the record of the party that you've just started to lead now. Well, poor Luxembourg catch and stray is there, Mike.

But what's happened here is really interesting even in Alberta, right? The incumbency advantage that Mike talks about is really real and we are even seeing some interesting momentum in Edmonton seats and in some Calgary seats for the liberals. And we haven't seen those kinds of signs of life since 2015. And before that, I'm struggling to find a different time, maybe, well, 1968. It could have been one of those elections. We are seeing that.

We are seeing the sort of pushback against Donald Trump vote congeal behind Mr. Carney and that is a real thing. I don't think that that means that the majority of the seats aren't going to go to the CPC, obviously in this province. It is though showing some signs of life around – there is an actual democratic debate. That's a good thing. I will say though there is one sector that's been left out of this. I'm going to pox on all their houses, every single party and that's agriculture.

Agriculture – Canola is now facing tariffs into China. We haven't even talked about it. Our producers are facing all kinds of different tariff barriers now. There is a great deal of instability and insecurity among producers, but also in the value added sector and no one is talking about it. What annoys me is that's probably because there aren't enough seats in play in Alberta and Saskatchewan. If there were, it would become an issue and that's where having just like one party

winning all the seats in rural areas is kind of to our own detriment. I wish that we were talking about that more because I do think it's going to have a significant and negative effect on rural communities through Alberta, Saskatchewan, parts of Manitoba, parts of British Columbia as well. Peter Van Doren Peer Polly proposed this national energy corridor and that speaks directly I think Mike to what you were talking about this idea of pipelines being built and pipelines being built at pace. Whether that's possible or not given concerns in Quebec, concerns in some First Nation communities

is another matter. But how is that playing here in Alberta? Peter Polly Well, it's – I think it's a national imperative. This actually finally occurs. And not is it is it doable? Do you think I think so? I mean, we've seen we've seen we've seen a lot of at least talk in the rhetoric indicates that there's finally some enthusiasm even amongst leadership in Quebec to, you know, build pipeline capacity out to the St. Lawrence, but we also need to build it west. Is that really true?

Yves-Francois Blanchet said he would rather sign the Canadian Constitution than see a pipeline go through Quebec. Well, fortunately for Canadians, Yves-Francois Blanchet has limited influence on anything. But I speak to Premier Legault's comments where he says that his position is softened on oil and gas and pipelines to through his territory in Quebec. So I take him at his word. I mean, obviously the Mark Carney said July 1st is a deadline for free trade amongst all provinces. Perhaps that doesn't mean pipeline capacity. But we have there is enthusiasm in a way that we've

never seen before. And I think Trump, the silver lining of this hostility to him, may be some national unity in that direction. Shannon, do you think the conversation in this country has changed around pipelines in particular? And if it has, where has that left concerns around climate change in the environment? I think there has been a change in terms of how we view large pieces of infrastructure. I think there's no question about that. There remain though issues related to environmental assessment, issues related to Section 35 obligations under the Constitution

in terms of consultation with Indigenous peoples and consent. Those are unresolved questions and I think we bulldoze over them at our peril. I think that every – Canadians should look at every party leader who promises them, you know, a straight shot towards project approvals with a great deal of side eye because those are unrealistic promises. How are O'Byrton's feeling about Mark Carney? He launched his bid for the Liberal leadership race in Edmonton. He grew up there, but he decided to run for a seat in Ontario.

How do people in this province, do you think, see Mark Carney? Well, the Liberal rebound post-Trudeau has been felt acutely in many areas of this country, not necessarily in Alberta and Saskatchewan. You're seeing an uptick, of course. There is a bit of a honeymoon and certainly a post-Trudeau honeymoon. But broadly speaking, Mark Carney has a lot of work to do to earn the broad support of Albertans in a way that no liberal leader has done since 1905, since Confederation. Do you think there's a possibility for the liberals to pick up seats in this province? I think anything's possible. Honestly, this election has challenged my notion of everything I once thought I understood

about politics, to be frank, but no, I think he has a tall task to get anywhere beyond the two seats that he already has. There's a number of writings that are close to watch, but I'll be very surprised if he likes anyone else beyond Edmonton Centre and Calgary Skyview. Maybe beyond this province. I mean, how do you understand, Michael, why it is that polls may change?

We are early into this campaign, or almost midway through the campaign, I suppose, but how do you understand why Pierre Polyov is not connecting broadly with Canadians in the way that he was before Justin Trudeau left the scene? Well, I think the balance box question has shifted. And again, when I talk about losing my understanding of how I once thought politics worked, it's because elections used to be decided by the party that had the most salient and compelling

message on pocketbook issues, on domestic issues, on things like affordability and housing. And Pierre Poliam has had, in my opinion, a very strong message on that. He's had a lot of ideas on this. In fact, he's one-upped Mark Kearney on many instances in terms of his policy pledging to give more money back to Canadians. But what I've learned and what has become apparent to me over the last couple of weeks is that this is not an issues driven campaign. People don't, people aren't debating domestic issues in a way that you normally would.

By and large people are still going to vote on April 28th, at least right now, on who's going to stand up best to Donald Trump. And that's a, and that's a ballot box question and metric that the incumbent government, the Liberals liberals are leading on by a country mile. So I wonder I wonder here if if this national crisis as we call it is deflated by you know less attention from us on on Trump. Do people return to wanting to start talking about these things? Does Pierre therefore then get a bump in these discussions? I don't know, but right now it's Trump and Trump only.

And Pierre Poliev has had a difficult time rooting people in the issues that normally rule the day. Shannon, is this no longer an issues-based campaign or is Pierre Poliev talking about the wrong issues? I think it might be because he's kind of framing the issues wrong. I was thinking about it and it's kind of like, you drive the truck into a snowbank and so Pierre Paulyeva is a guy sitting in the cab just telling you how he got there and how you should have driven better.

Meanwhile, Mark Carney comes along and he's the guy pushing the truck out of the snowbank, right? He's focused on let's have action, let's move forward. Whereas, Paul Iovre has essentially bolted the Trump question onto his existing basket of issues. So, his answer to Trump is to do everything that he thought two months ago that we should be doing to fix the country. It's backwards looking. It's blaming the liberals for getting us here in the first place, for driving the truck into the snow bank.

Canadians don't want to hear it. They want somebody to push the truck out. That's what they want. Well, and if I could just add, Matt, I think the quagmire here that I think Pierre and the CPC War Room need to address here and that is tough to figure out is as we witnessed the death of the federal NDP. You have the progressive left coalescing around a central banker promising income tax cuts, canceling capital gains increase, militarization, pipelines, canceling the polluter costs on

fuel and electricity demand. These are things that progressive voters used to reject and personalities they used to reject. But they're flocking now to Mark Carney who's by broadly speaking running a fairly conservative platform Many of his ideas frankly come directly from Pierre Where he's verbatim copied some of his policies and and you also had you also seen the block Collapse in large part in Quebec around a guy who can barely speak French and these are these are issues that I think Pierre is Is having a hard time addressing because you really haven't seen his support crater all that much.

Sure, he's cratered four or five points, but broadly speaking, you're just looking at a ton of new support suddenly entering the Liberal camp largely because of the death of Jagmeet Singh and the federal New Democrats. Shannon, with the NDP, I mean, what are their chances of gaining any ground in this province? We've been speaking with NDP supporters and they say not this time, that the stakes are too high, they are not going to vote for the NDP. I think that the problem here in Alberta, in particular to Mr. Singh's leadership, and it's Saskatchewan I would say too, is that when he went into the confidence and

supply agreement with Mr. Trudeau, he made himself an incumbent. All the incumb incumbents are gone now, and Trudeau is gone. He's the only incumbent left standing. And so that, any of that overhang from the Trudeau years, Singh gets to wear that now. Just in the remaining minutes that we have, let me ask you about somebody who is not on the ballot, and that's the Premier of this province, Danielle Smith. She has inserted herself in some ways into this race, kind of a victory lap in the wake of the tariffs saying that Canada did better than perhaps expected. And I think it's fair to say giving herself some credit for that. Shannon, what do you make of the premier's role in this federal election?

I think she should probably register as a third party advertiser for the Liberal Party of Canada. She has done the more favors over the last 10 days than almost any other thing that they could do for themselves. In particular, that Breitbart interview on day one that was surfaced that essentially you know casting Mr. Polievra as in sync with the Trump administration, extremely unhelpful, running around, essentially throwing preemptive tantrums around national unity, essentially making the argument that Carney is going to get a majority.

I don't imagine Polly Avera in the CPC war room were very amused with that either. She would have been better off to sit it out, but she's just underlining all of the reasons why people are worried about electing a CPC majority, which is now, I mean, obviously the possibility of that right now is slim to effectively none. Mike, people have had even stronger words in talking about Premier Dan Smith beyond it being unhelpful. In the rest of this country outside of Alberta, people have looked at her actions when it comes to dealing with the Trump administration and putting Alberta first.

As the words treasonous have been used, sedition have been used as well. What do you make of what she's doing and what do you make of of the Shannon's phrase the preemptive references to to succession saying that Alberta may be you know looking at being better off outside of Canada than inside well I mean I hesitate to clutch my pearls like some might I would I would never in fact I'd call it patently ridiculous as someone who called the Premier's kind of advocacy for Alberta as treasonous. But look, what's good for the goose is not always good for the gander. And as the premier stands up and exercises some of this rhetoric and her right in which

she calls her fiduciary responsibility to stand up for Alberta, this is rhetoric and speech that her base is demanding that our constituents are demanding And she herself has said that she's not going to let anything throw her off Her work is premiering and standing up for the interests of Alberta But is it helpful for is it helpful for the country when she talks like that? Absolutely not It's traitorous nonsense and and I should stop doing it. Well, look, I don't I don't think she frankly cares all that much what's good for the rest of the country. I think she feels like her responsibility is for Albertans and Albertans only. And obviously there needs to be a more collaborative effort when it actually gets down to the business

of governing. And I think she's demonstrated that. She's worked with her other First Minister's colleagues and has come to the table on things like national energy corridors and a united terror response. And you know, even she has said nothing is off the table in terms of that retaliatory response, should it be necessary. But no question is obviously not resonating in the rest of Canada, certainly in Ontario. And it has become a bit of an albatross as Pierre runs an entirely different narrative where he's trying to unite the country and bring everyone in the kind of the same direction.

So yeah, I think the premier and Pierre Pauliev are counter, but I'm not sure that the premier cares all that much. I'm going to let you both go, but let me just ask you finally, Shannon, what do you think is at stake for this province in this election? I do think that Alberta's place within a strong united Canada is at stake over the next few years. I think that if we are looking at a global recession, which increasingly looks like we are, that we are an outward facing economy.

Alberta likes to tell itself that we're so strong and we're mavericks and everything else. The fact of the matter is that we are price takers on so many of the drivers of our economic growth. So if there's going to be a global recession, that is going to hurt us tremendously. Every single person's livelihood and their quality of life and our public services. So that is what is at stake for all Canadians, but in particular for Alberta with the export-driven economy that we have, we need to take the stakes very, very seriously and not mess around

with any of these sort of side quests around trying to dial up people's base on succession or whatever else it is. It is far too serious right now to be indulging that kind of stuff. Michael, last word to you. What's at stake for the province of Alberta in this federal election? Well, I think a lot. Federal elections are always important in Alberta, and the premier for her part has put together a list of demands that she'd like to see the federal government address. And if they don't, within six months, she's promised to strike a second fair deal

panel which reviews Alberta's place in the confederation. Or separatism in a referendum in that direction, citizen led, mind you. The premier is clear that she wouldn't drive that conversation, but citizen led could be on the table. Fortunately for Albertans, I think the sentiments towards separatism are low, even relatively low to where they've been in the past. But a lot is on the table and we'll have to see how the federal government responds post-election on things like energy

development, things that matter to the economic driver of this province and the country. And the provincial government is prepared to respond in kind. So a lot is at stake and a lot is on the table and left to be determined. I'm really glad to have your insights on this. Thank you both for being here as part of our little road trip through central Alberta. Thank you. Thanks, Matt. Welcome to Alberta. Thank you. Michael Solberg is a partner at New West Public Affairs. Shannon Phillips is a partner at Meredith, Boston Cool and Phillips, there in Calgary. And that wraps up the current's visit to Alberta. Next week, our road trip rolls into Ontario, into what's known as the 905 region.

This is the area around Toronto. After that, we'll take you to Quebec City and Halifax. I'm Matt Galloway in Red Deer. Thanks for listening to The Current. Have a great weekend. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.