The Current - Have governments delivered on $10 a day childcare?

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

In 2021, the federal government launched a national daycare plan that promised accessible and affordable daycare, the aim was reducing fees to $10 dollars a day. Five years in, we check in on two families in Regina and Winnipeg on how the plan is working for them. We also speak with Carolyn Ferns, Public Policy Coordinator for the Ontario Coalition For Better Child Care, and Kerry McCuaig, a Fellow in Early Childhood Policy at the University of Toronto, on what more needs to get done.

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Donate at lovescarbro.cairbo. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. It's a busy day at the daycare for parents returning to work, having access to quality child care, can make that transition so much easier. And being able to afford it is a game changer. In 2021, the federal government launched a national. child care plan that promised both availability and affordability to parents coast to coast to coast, it was an ambitious idea, reduced fees to $10 a day across this country. Well, five years in,

the good news is that some parents are indeed paying less. Last month, the city of Toronto opened its largest city-run daycare, opening up 100 spots, charging $22 a day. But perhaps those Toronto city-run daycares are a victim of their own success. There are currently 16,000 kids. kids on the waiting list. Here's Shanley McNamee, General Manager of Children's Services. As the child care becomes more affordable, demand in every single center has gone up. We're hearing that from operators, increasing the waiting list time. This morning, we're going to check in on what's working across this country and what still needs to get done to ensure that those spots are available to the people who need them the most. In a few moments, we'll speak with two people

who've looked at the data, and that's coming up. But first, a parent's perspective, Julia Smith, has an 18-month-old daughter in child care. She is in Winnipeg. Julia, good morning. Good morning. When did you start to think about daycare for your daughter? Oh, before I was even pregnant. When she was just a thought in my mind that perhaps I may one day be pregnant.

Yeah, and honestly, even before then, I'd heard the stories before I even contemplated getting pregnant. What were the stories you heard? Oh, you need to be on child care by the time. you, you know, even meet your partner you want to do with 10 years, you might need to think that you're going to be preparing for getting into a child care spot. And you might never get a spot. And so what was the, you start to think about this. What was the process to try and land a spot? Yeah. So for me, basically, as soon as I found out I was pregnant, again, based on what I had heard, I immediately, that's one of the first things I did. After telling my partner, we're having a

child, the next thing I did was go and get on wait lists. How many wait lists did you put yourself on? Um, so originally I was on over 60, uh, and still currently, even though I'm fortunate to have a spot for my child currently, I still remain on, I just was checking in time and talk to you. I'm still on 56 wait list as today because her spot, um, she's in an infant spot. And so when she turns two, she may age out of the center she's at. That sounds nerve-wracking. I want to come back to that in a moment. How do you go about putting yourself on 60 different weight, that's 6-0 different wait lists? Yes. Yes. Well, it's quite, so every center is different currently in Manitoba. I can't speak to how it is in other areas, but every center manages their own weight list.

And so some of them are similar, some of them are different, but it's time. I mean, I viewed it as kind of like a part-time job while I was on leave. And that's what I was doing was, you know, filling out forms, getting on lists. Yeah, it takes a lot of time and energy. And so she has a spot now. Did it feel like you won the lottery when she got in? Absolutely. I mean, again, it's like up there with her being born and, you know, getting the job that I have currently.

It's one of those moments that you're like, oh, my God, I can't what this is happening. This is amazing. Do you mind me asking, how much are you paying for kids? Yes, no, absolutely. I'm happy to talk about it to anyone who will listen. Yeah, no, so I pay $10 a day for my daughter's spot, plus $2 a day for snacks that they provide. And so the center I'm at, or she's at, I'm very fortunate. They provide two healthy, nutritious snacks per day for the cost of only $2 a day.

And so if she didn't get in, did you kind of run the math as to what you might have to pay if, for example, she went into private or a home care or what have you? Yes, yes, because my partner and I had gone and looked at some of those centers because we both work full time. And as I was approaching returning to work, we were getting really concerned. And so they range anywhere from $1,600 to $2,000 a month. So we were looking at, if you take the higher end of that, you know, looking at spending $24,000 a year. That's a big difference. It's life-changing.

It's life-changing. Yeah, absolutely. But as you said, she has a spot, but she may not have a spot. What is that about? Oh, so the place that we're at a wonderful center, they have, it's basically a couple centers just based on age within one building. So because they opened at different times, like you probably are aware of, you'll hear from the experts you're going to speak with.

You know, there's been a lot of growth and development in spots because of the $10 a day. And so the lists just don't line up perfectly. So she will still be on their list there. She'll be prioritized. But there is a chance that there could be a slight gap in care because of the transition between them, if that makes sense. What happens then? Well, this is why I'm still on 56 wait lists as of today. Just to be hoping that I will have care either at the center she's at or one of these, you just wait and hope that someone gives you the call saying,

you've got a spot. And is that what it is for people who have never done this? I mean, you just, you put yourself on the list and then you wait for the phone to ring. Yeah, well, you hear all these different stories from folks, right? So, you know, oftentimes people will say, oh, you need to, you know, follow up with them, you need to call, you need to show up. But as you can imagine, and I just imagine for the centers, that can be quite stressful for them.

You know, they're trying to take care of children and they've got anxious parents whose kids don't go there phoning. So I was always very hesitant to do that. I really waited until I was closer to going back to work, and that's when I started kind of following up just by email. But the place that I finally eventually got into, I just heard from them randomly. I feel so lucky, but, yeah, there's not a consistent way of doing it. And some people say, oh, I knew somebody who knew somebody or have personal connections. It really depends, I think, on everybody's situation.

Parents talk to each other. What have other parents told you about what their experiences like trying to find? affordable, not just a spot, but trying to find an affordable spot. Yeah, exactly the same thing. So for some people, I mean, again, I'm here in Winnipeg, and so a lot of the current stories that I hear are here in Winnipeg, so I realize it might be different for other folks listening. But here, it really depends. It's, again, people, if you got on a list, you know, a long time ago, or maybe you knew someone that you were able to kind of work a connection to get in, but a real struggle is for people who don't work

regular hours. You know, if you don't work that standard work day of nine to five or close to there, it's really challenging because, you know, if you work shift work, if you work irregular hours, it's difficult to find a spot because many centers are open, you know, Monday to Friday, you know, even if they have hours like mine, 7 a.m. to 6 p.m., which are quite generous, for some people, that doesn't work, right? I know I have a sister-in-law who's a nurse. You know, they work 12-hour shifts from, I believe it's 730 to 7.30 or 7 to 7 to 7. You know, people like that aren't able to use the centers if those are the hours unless they have a partner who can pick up that, that duty of picking them up by the time the center closes.

Can I just ask you finally? We're going to talk more about sort of the data and what's happening across the country. Absolutely. Why does it matter that we get this right? Why is it important that we, that we make, you know, there's a great promise to this program, but we have to execute it in the right way? Oh my gosh. And I'll try to be succinct because I could do a whole program with you just on that.

It is, I mean, it's life-changing for the parents. but most importantly for the children. I mean, the development that I've seen in my daughter and just the, I guess, now coming on six months that she's been there, it's incredible. I mean, the interaction she has with the workers with the other children, the skill that they have in working with these kids and doing things that,

you know, I work in education, but I would never think of doing some of the things that they do. And, you know, I don't like to think about this terms, in terms of economics, and I'm sure you'll hear a bit about that as you move on to talk to the experts. But at the same time, we know that child care is also just good economic policy, affordable child care, I should say, because it keeps

women in the workforce, you know, being able to contribute. And I think for many women, if you're paying $2,000 a month, if you can even afford that, you know, I've heard people say that ends up being a huge portion of their salary. So, you know, you have to ask then, why would I even go back? And it also means that kids are missing out on those experiences, you know, of being exposed to other children, being exposed to other, you know, caregivers. And I just think it's a win, win, for everybody, you know, for the children, for the parents, and for society. We benefit from, you know, affordable child care, both socially, economically, and eventually politically, because these kids are going to go on to be future citizens.

Well, they already are citizens, but go on to be active citizens contributing. And so I just, yeah, to me, I'm so grateful for my spot. And I hope that all politicians realize how important this is for people. That's a great stump speech. Julia, thank you very much. It's really good to talk to you. Thanks for having me. Julia Smith has an 18-month-old daughter.

in child care. She was in Winnipeg. This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always over delivers. You've got to be 6,500

hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. Is your home ready for the next big snowstorm?

You can take action to help protect your home from extreme weather. Discover prevention tips that can help you be climate ready at keep it intact.ca. As we said, there are stories across the country, familiar stories to what Julia has been talking about growing pains within this plan, but a lot of enthusiasm around the idea of the plan to take a look at how these plans for $10 a day care have worked across Canada. I'm joined by Carolyn Ferns, public policy coordinator for the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care. She also sits on the board of the National Organization Child Care Now. And we have Kerry McQuag with us as well, fellow in early childhood policy at the Atkinson Center

at the Ontario Institute for Studies and Education at the University of Toronto. Good morning to you both. Good morning, Matt. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. Carrie McQuag, how common is Julia's experience, what, 60 wait lists thinking about child care from even before she was thinking of having a baby? Yeah, well, parents in the know definitely do as soon as they know they're expecting a baby, go searching for child care and get in one of those coveted wait lists. The enthusiasm that Julie shows about finding child care that her child is excelling in is also a story that you'll hear from parents.

But we need to be cognizant that the $10 day plan provided more than just affordable child care. You know, it promised one that the child care would be good. It promised that kids with special needs would be able to participate in it. It promised that there would be good accountability for, you know, how the money was being spent. And what we're hearing from the, you know, the Auditor General of Canada, and actually many provincial audit generals as well, is that although the plan is delivering on affordability, it's not delivering on those other issues. And many parents that there are structural issues that are keeping them out of child care.

I'm going to come back to that in a moment. Carolyn, you have called this a game changer. Julia called it life-changing. Tell me why you used that word a game-changer. Well, you know, when we talk to families, parents across Ontario, across Canada, that's the term life-changing, game-changing. Those are the terms that they use to describe this program and the change that it's made for families that can get one of those spots, right?

Because the reality was you heard the difference in what Julia was paying or would have been paying if she didn't have a 10 a day spot and what she's paying now. And that's the difference that we've seen here in Ontario as well, where fees are capped at $22 a day down. We're not yet down to the 10, but even that has made, means thousands of dollars more in parents' pockets. So it is a game changer for them. And we hear that it's the difference between, you know, being able to buy healthy fresh food, being able to pay, you know, their rent or not being going into debt. So it's a key affordability measure for families. But, you know, that's for families that have access, right? And that's the big question that we're talking about now. What can we do? What can governments do to make sure that

more families have access to this life-changing program? Carrie, the Auditor General, and you hinted of this, the Auditor General of Ontario, found issues with the implementation of the child care program in that province, including that enrollment for low-income families dropped by something like 31% compared to 2019, you have written that the families who need care the most are being left behind. How is that happening? Well, as fees drop, there's growing demand for child care and those parents with skills, like Julie, who knows how to, you know, manage 60 different child care forms. So she becomes, you know, one of those who get a spot. But if you are challenged by, you know, language issues or other issues, just time, your ability to navigate the system becomes

less and less. The other thing that we have to keep in mind is that even $10 a day, which by the way is not in place in Ontario, but even $10 a day is not affordable for many, many families. And in the old system, not that it was a panacea or anything, there were subsidies that were available for low-income families, our families in distress. But those subsidies are shrinking and shrinking. And in fact, we now have three jurisdictions, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and the Northwest Territories,

which has entirely eliminated subsidies for those kids, which means that the most vulnerable do you don't have access. What's the justification for eliminating the subsidies? Is it just because there are, there's a plan to reduce fees and so the subsidies aren't needed? Well, except that, yes. I mean, that is the rationale is like who can't afford $10 a day. Well, there are many, many families who cannot afford $10 a day. Some of those, you know, had child care that was subsidized and when those subsidies were cut off, those families lost their child care.

So again, you're looking at the most vulnerable families. You're looking at, you know, particularly kids with special needs because families who have children with special needs are often, you know, have income issues. And they are not getting into child care. Carolyn, we heard about what, that one child care center in Toronto that has a waiting list of 16,000 children. You have people like Julia who are on 58, 59, 60 wait lists. There has been a big push for employees to get back to the workplace after years from working from home. What impact does that have on those wait lists? Well, I think that's going to have even more of an impact.

I think all of these issues that we're talking about, the wait lists, the issues that we've seen around it becoming more difficult for low-income families to gain access to the system, all of these. you talked about growing pains, Matt, that's exactly what it is. You know, when the government launched this program, they started to reduce fees. And then, you know, obviously, once it becomes more affordable, you know, it becomes very, very popular with families, right? And that's what we're seeing. And now if you add in something like back-to-office mandates, where parents who might have been able to for before-and-a-school child care, off-shift, have one parent, you know,

drop off in the morning or pick-up before school, and those before-and-after-school child care pieces, that's now not possible. And so we're adding those families onto wait lists for school age child care as well. And so it really is, I think it's so obvious that what we need to do is deal with the issue of expanding child care. And, you know, there's several ways that governments could be tackling this. They need to be doing it much more ambitiously. And one of the key things that they need to do first, even before building new child care buildings, is dealing with the workforce crisis and making sure we have enough early childhood educators to staff the programs we have, as well as staffing more programs.

How would you describe the workforce crisis when it comes to early childhood educators? Well, the Auditor General in Ontario said we're short at least 10,000 registered early childhood educators in Ontario, and that problem is not getting any better. It's something that I think many people acknowledge that early childhood educators and child care workers across Canada are underpaid. It's unfortunately an occupation where people go to school to study early child education, but they either never go to work in childcare or if they do, they only stay for a few years. So it's really about making those decent jobs, ensuring decent work and pay for early childhood educators so that it becomes somewhere that somebody could build a

career, right? And that's what we really need because it's retaining early childhood educators in the sector. It's having that stability of the same educator there. That's what builds quality programs, right? Which is what we want for our kids. That was actually part of the deal, right? Wasn't that part of the deal that the federal government put out? Yeah, absolutely. And we've seen in some provinces, more than others, some measures to improve the wages so far. But across the board, it really just hasn't gone far enough. You know, we know that in some provinces, say in Nova with Scotia. They now have a pension plan for early child educators, but that's not happening here in Ontario. And we still only have a wage floor in Ontario. We don't have a wage grid that,

and you know, the guarantees that early child educators are going to be earning decent wages across their careers. So there's definitely more that needs to be done there so that we have the staff that we need to, as I say, staff the programs we have, get those up to capacity as well as to staff more child care programs. The other thing you mentioned, Matt, around building new child care centers, and I know you mentioned at the top, that new publicly operated child care program here in Toronto. But that's almost, it's, that's the exception, seeing a new publicly operated child care center open.

In Ontario, the provincial government has actually made a rule that to open a new public center, you actually have to, that's the last resort. you'd have to show that no private operator, non-profit or for-profit, could operate a center like that. So today, it's even harder for municipalities to actually open up a new public center, when really we need to see the opposite happening. We need to see governments, I think the federal, provincial, and municipal governments being much more ambitious about public expansion. I'm talking about expansion in schools, new public centers, making sure that we're putting child care in new affordable housing. developing, all of those things should be happening. And we need to see governments working together. So we're tackling this expansion problem so that families can get access.

Carrie, it's interesting because there are different levels of government that are involved here. And you have the Ontario government that just secured, what, a one-year extension to keep average fees in that province at $19 a day. Saskatchewan reached a deal to extend the $10 a day child care for another five years. There's reporting out of Nova Scotia saying that those equity issues that you were talking about are being met. You have the education minister in Newfoundland and Labrador calling on the federal government to increase its financial piece of the pie to ensure that $10 a day child care survives and thrives in Newfoundland and Labrador. Can the provinces do this themselves or do they need to have more money

from the federal government? Well, some provinces have actually talked up what the federal government has provided and some provinces have cut back such as Ontario, even though part of the requirements under receiving money from the federal government is that provinces don't cut their share. So yeah, in most cases, we are not seeing provinces step up to provide, you know, to beat their half of the bargain. After all, as they make very clear, is childcare is a provincial territorial responsibility. So great that the federal government has come in to develop a national plan, but it also put requirements around it. And as its own auditor general has told them, they need to be more proactive in ensuring

that the provinces live up to those requirements. And I think we need to be a little bit cynical when we see these press releases about new spaces being added, et cetera, because we know that so many of those spaces that have been built are sitting empty because of the issues that Carol. raised about a shortage of the workforce. We're out of time, but let me just ask you both very briefly the question that I asked, Julia, which is, what's at stake here, Carolyn, if we don't get this right? Oh, if we don't get this right and the program sort of stalls where it is,

it means that families won't have access, that frustration will grow, and I think it makes the whole program vulnerable. And it leaves out, as Carrie mentioned, the families that need this the most. If we get it right, though, it's just such a wonderful program that is going to be popular with families, the economic impacts Julia spoke to. And that's even, you know, we're already seeing those economic impacts just with the program as it is now. If we expand it, it gets so much better. And then, of course, the quality programs for kids and what that does for them socially and cognitively, which is so important. Very briefly, the last word to you?

So my biggest fear, I will say that if the province's territories are not held to their agreements. What we are already seeing is a big expansion of not only for-profit care, but corporate care. And, you know, these are companies that trade on the stock market to provide child care. And they are siphoning off large amounts of public money that should be really going to address some of these growing pains that the new child care plan has. It's good to speak with you both. We will hear from parents, I'm sure, in a moment, but I'm glad to hear from you. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Carolyn Ferns is Public Policy Coordinator for the Ontario Coalition for Better

Child Care and sits on the board of child care now. Carrie McQuag is a fellow in early childhood policy at the Atkins Center, Atkinson Center, pardon me, the Ontario Institute for Studies and Education at the University of Toronto. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name's Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.