The Current - Hockey legend Ken Dryden dies, leaving a great legacy behind

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

Ken Dryden is best known for his hockey career, but his memoir The Class: A Memoir of a Place, a Time, and Us, tells the story of living in post-war Canada — through the lens of his high school graduating class. Ken Dryden died of cancer last week, at the age of 78. We revisit his conversation with Matt Galloway.

This message is from Wise, the app for international money. With Wise, you can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with a fair exchange rate and no hidden fees. Download the Wise app or visit wise.com. T's and C's Apply. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Has you perhaps been hearing, Ken Dryden died on Friday of cancer. He was 78 years old. Hockey Hall of Famer, hockey legend, during his eight years in the NHL, he won six Stanley Cups

with the Montreal Canadiens, represented Canada in the 1972 Summit Series against the Soviet Union. He was also a lawyer, a best-selling author, and a member of Parliament. He is only one of three goalies to win that many cups, but he would maintain those wins, felt awfully similar to winning his high school basketball championship in 1965. Ken Dryden thought deeply about this country. He wrote a book, classic book, called The Game, which is about how embedded hockey is in the fabric of Canada and what it's like to actually be in that game. But he thought about it more broadly as well.

I spoke with Ken Dryden in October of 2023 about his book, The Class, a memoir of place, a time, and us. It's a book about how this country has changed over the last 50 years and who we are now. Here's that conversation. You said that you've been thinking about writing this book for 30 years? Probably since back in even the 1980s, and I think probably because I would get the question a lot about how did you get from somebody who went to university, to the Montreal Canadiens, to McGill Law School, how could that possibly happen? I mean, it's always been of interest to me of the from there to hear story about anything, is how did we get here? Almost none of us are where we thought we would be when we were younger. And how did it all happen?

Why did it happen? And I thought there was a very specific group that I could return to and to kind of explore that with them. Because we were this high school class. We graduated in 1965. And so what happened since then? And in almost every case, we didn't know each other's story. afterwards. Can I ask you about what it was like when you walked in to the class? September 6th, 1960, in Atobico, which is a suburb of Toronto. And at that point, at that point,

was really just being created in some ways. It was your first day of high school. Right. What was the country like at that time? There was a conservative government. John Defenbaker had won in 58. Never before had Canada seen anything like it. a precarious minority government saw the electorate almost double its representation in parliament at the expense of all three opposition parties. When a record 7 million Canadian voters went to the poll

from coast to coast last Monday, they returned Prime Minister Diefenbaker's government to power with the largest majority of any party since Confederation 91 years ago. At that time, Montreal was the biggest city in the country, and the Montreal Canadians would have just won their... Fifth Straight Stanley Cup. Toronto was much more of a provincial place.

I mean, it was just starting to feel aspiration, which really, you know, kind of was emanating out of those early post-war years. In a country that had, it seemed like, endless possibility. I mean, you talk about the editorials that were in McLean's mind, Lister Sinclair, you know, legendary CBC broadcaster, we used to call Mr. Sinclair, because we thought that was his name. But he wrote these editorials talking about how this country was on the verge of something extraordinary.

What did that feel like to be there in a place of possibility? Almost all of our parents had very formative early adult years during the Depression. They would have had their first jobs during the Depression. They would have had their lives put on hold by World War II. And all of a sudden, World War II is over. a lot of the rest of the world is in a kind of disarray, it is that golden moment for those in North America where there are these seemingly endless possibilities. And I can remember as kids, you know, we read about the St. Lawrence Seaway, this unbelievable development, you know, that was going to

be able to connect Thunder Bay to the Atlantic, you know, to London or Leduc, Alberta. We all knew the Duke, Alberta, and the oil discovery there. High pressure work at Leduc in Western Canada, where one of the biggest oil strikes in history means the opening of one new well every day. Here's another already. And the spectacular 100-foot flame burns off the natural gas. And of course, what was central to all of these things,

these big projects, was the role of government. Part of this is about not wanting to let your parents down, right? You felt like you all needed to live through. that possibility that was being presented to you because of what they had gone through. That's right. And almost none of them had gone to university. They saw the possibilities of this country all around them. They saw their kids. They saw the growth of the suburbs, the new schools that are there, and had as their dream in their imaginations, was for us to go to university.

How did your view of the country change? when you left. You went to the States, you went to Cornell to go to university to play hockey. When you're out of the country in the 1960s, which is, as you say, a serious time, how did your view of this country change? When I was at Cornell, what really surprised me was how insistently Canadian I became. And I think in part it was that, you know, that everybody around me was insistent on thinking of me, talking about me as the Canadian, you know, that any conversation that anybody was having, you know, any of my classmates about any subject, I would interrupt with somebody, oh, that's interesting about it. But you know, Saul Bello, he was born in Lachine.

You know, and Art Link Letter? He's from Moostra. Yeah. And Perry Mason, you know what his name is? Raymond Burr. He's from Vancouver. Why did the insistently Canadian in America, not come back to Canada to go to Expo 67? How did you miss out on this defining moment for Canada? Well, there's no good reason. I mean, the reason was, and literally I was I was working that summer in Ithaghan, New York, where Cornell is. I was working construction, building a Woolworth store. And my thinking was, I mean, I knew something about exhibitions because of the X in Toronto.

So I thought, okay, this is a big X. I'm willing to go downtown to go to the X, but I'm not sure I'm interested in going 300 miles to a bigger X. Plus, all the people that are going to be there, you know, for it, I mean, it's going to be too busy, too crowded, and because of all of that, I mean, really how special is it going to be? All the fun of the fair, a whirling, twirling, Merriga round of entertainment

that befits Expo 67, the greatest show on Earth. It's the greatest world exhibition ever staged, the culmination of four years' efforts by the city of Montreal. I thought, you know, I'll go in 68 instead of in 67, when all but two of us had gone to Expo, as you say, in this defining time. You happen to be in the States in a defining moment as well. There's a lot of change that's going on there, civil rights movement, Vietnam War.

And you write in the book about a remarkable story, the day after Martin Luther King was assassinated, Joan Baez was at Cornell and saying we shall overcome. You were there. Yes. What was that like? It was overwhelming. I mean, it was a concert that was a happening.

We were waiting the whole night for her saying we shall overcome. we shall overcome oh deep in my heart I know the late 1960s in both countries you know, was a very, very intense time. And in part, it was the growth of universities and the numbers of students who were there and governments not seemingly up to the task of what the country is and might be.

And so a lot of focus was shifting towards the universities where, of course, it's the place where you start to think about the future. You imagine what the future might be. And as students, you're of an age where you're looking to try to see what that future might be and what you might create of it. And in the U.S. at that time, I mean, you had the race riots and the Vietnam War. Here were your fellow students who were living this out personally because they might get drafted. There was a really significant chance of them being drafted.

And certain other forces which will raise our fighting strength from 75,000 to 125,000 men, almost immediately. The fact that the war was going on meant that they might be in Vietnam, you know, in a year's time or two years' time. So the fights were visceral. They were personal, and the campuses had that kind of feeling at that time. Change runs through this book, and it's about change in the country and change in people's lives. As I said in the introduction, people may know you as the hockey player, but that was just a small part of your life. Robin takes the side.

The game is over. Montreal wins the Stanley Cup. Montreal's victory may not have been popular. However, without the fantastic goaltending of rookie Ken Dryden, who won the Kansmyth trophy. He remembered a late save off Jim Patton. You talk in the book about retiring in 79 and leaving hockey and dealing with that change. Who was the hardest part of that change for you? You had your whole life ahead of you. You still had to work, for example, which I think people might be surprised to hear.

But you had all these other things that you could do and that you wanted to do. Sport is something where you can only do at the highest level until maybe if you're really good and really lucky until you're 35, you know, maybe. And so then the question becomes always, you know, what is next? And the difference is that you go through what feels like an absolute retirement like people at age 65 go through. It's just that you're 30 years younger. podcast is brought you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend, and receive up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Plus, Wise won't add hidden fees to your transfer. Whether you're buying souvenirs

with pesos in Puerto Vallarta or sending euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit Wise.com. Tees and Cs apply. Okay, so how come a film about a Canadian icon, John Candy, produced by a Canadian star, Ryan Reynolds, kicking off Canada's biggest film festival, still doesn't count as a Canadian movie. Well, to understand weird little nuances like that, you just have to listen to commotion. We're doing TIF and 12 every single weekday during the Toronto International Film Festival, and we have our best critics in town explaining stuff like this all in under 12 minutes. Find commotion with me, Alameen Abdul-Mahmood, wherever you get your podcasts, including you. You talk about when you first felt old, for example.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, that you go through the sequences of your life and of a career, except in, you know, one third of the time or one quarter of the time. You go from new guy, in my case, you know, 23 years old to, you know, up and comer, to core member, to veteran, to gone. and I'm 31 years old. You know, all that happened in eight years. And so I'm 31 years old and there are lots of things to do and lots of things I want to do. And I'm not quite sure what those things are, but I know that I want to have a shot at them. And so, you know, I think that the part that becomes the toughest for somebody, who does retire early in that way is the same as it is at 65 is that it's not it's not the loss of

income most particularly it's the loss of something of a feeling special the Friday that you retire you are special the Monday after you've retired you're not anymore what what is it that that makes you matter on the Monday you mattered on Friday what do you matter on Friday what do you matter? You know, how do you matter on Monday? I did have in mind that I thought an ultimate career was in what I would phrase as government. But to me, that was an ultimate career. That was something that you didn't do. And something that you held off for for a long time. That's right. From the hockey arena to the political one. Former NHL goaltender Ken Dryden says it's an honor to have been called up to Team Martin.

Of course, to Olivia. Drieden, who is also an author and a lawyer, was handpicked by Paul Martin. And he didn't disappoint, easily winning the writing of York Center for the Liberals last night. To me, you don't do it before you're 50 years old, because up until the time you're 50, you're experiencing, you're learning, you're having to figure out what's, you know, what you're all about, what the country's all about, and maybe by that time, you know, you have figured it out enough in your own mind that you might be of some use to, you know, doing this this job so then it was you know like what is it that really interests me i mean i'm not good at stuff that doesn't really absorb me if there's something that maybe others are not doing

or or you know are struggling with doing that maybe i can do yeah let's give that a shot as a country how do you think we have done absorbing all the change that we have gone through that's the An arc of this book in many ways is coming out of the post-war period to where we are now. It's a very different place. How have we done in absorbing that change? The two biggest changes that come to mind for me and anybody listening will probably have their third and fourth. One is, and I alluded to it a little bit earlier, is the role in the place of government. we grew up with the notion that government was a useful constructive entity that brought us together

that brought us together and was essential in order to do, you know, create the things that would allow us to reach the possibilities that were within us. And that's one of the reasons why education was so important to, our parents and to us in growing up. It was that bedrock. In the 80s at some point towards the end of the 80s and certainly into the 90s, then it was questions about government. Like, what's wrong with our schools? What's wrong with our hospitals? What's wrong with our roads? Why aren't we doing better? And maybe we should keep more money in our own pockets for that. Maybe for our own purposes. If the government can't deliver on this, maybe we can deliver for ourselves in it.

So that is a very big change, you know, during our lifetimes. And I think the other is just in terms of the makeup of the country. I mean, you know, that we are just, you know, vastly, vastly more diverse. I mean, I did a book in the 90s on schools where I went back to a high school just to sit there and see. And in those classrooms, seeing kids from everywhere and how that was so utterly different than the classrooms that I had been in 30 years earlier at a Tobico Collegiate. And how the country, you know, has adapted to that, found its way with that. I mean, I did another book book called Becoming Canada. And I think that's Canada's biggest achievement, is that.

in terms of how we have found a way of dealing with difference. We, you know, we are far, far from where we would like to be in terms of that. But when you look at other places in the world, they struggle with it more than we do. And, I mean, I've been in conversations with people from lots of other countries that are understood as multicultural countries. and they are doing and they wonder why we are able to do as well as we are why we haven't been at each other's throats why there hasn't been the kind of conflict and and and even greater tension that's that's that's that's a very big difference in in our

lifetimes and that is you know and that of course is is is our future and the world's future We're all going to have to find ways of dealing with diversity. That's the process of figuring it out, as you say. As a country, we're trying to figure it out. That's right. You have this family motto. You sound like when you're driving around, maybe you want to have somebody else who's the navigator or maybe you have a map in front of you.

Because the kids would ask you, you'd be driving around. And the kids would say, where are we going? And you would say what? Again and again and over years, I'd say where I said to them, we were going, which over time became less and less credible because most of the time we didn't end up there. And so after all of this, and of course that would be their natural question to ask, eventually I said to them, we're going where we end up. And it became like a non-answer that became kind of an answer, that became kind of a family joke that is still a

family joke and that in the end actually is pretty much the way we do things and the way I do things and maybe the way most of us do things. I mean, that that we have in mind a destination. Like, you know, my, what I had in mind as a destination, I was going to be a lawyer. I mean, I went to law school and grader, but I was never a lawyer. I never practiced law. I was never going to be a hockey player, you know, ended up that I, that I played hockey. You know, I almost didn't go into, you know, government. It didn't, by 50, I wasn't ready and I was, I think I was 57 or something when, you know, when I was, when I first stood for election. But the same with all of my classmates, you know, that you set out where you think you want to go and you don't end up there.

And I think it's important that we do have a destination in mind because I think if we don't, we don't set out. We don't set out to go anywhere. But I think that just the reality of our lives is that with everything that is going on around us and changes that happen and changes in ourselves and changing in our understandings of ourselves, is that we don't end up there. And, and, you know, that for us, I mean, you know, the example that I would, you know, is we're heading to Boston. Well, we're on our way to Boston. We're driving down the New York State Thruway and I see a sign for Attica. Ah, Attica.

Wasn't that where there a prison riot was? Hmm, that doesn't look all that far from here. I wonder what a big prison looks like. Well, head off the road, drive down to Attica, look around, you know, and imagine what it would. would be living in that town of Attica, where it's just overwhelmed by the presence of this prison. Attica Prison in upstate New York became the site of a bloody prison clash

that would shock the nation. Over several chaotic days, some 1,300 inmates seized parts of the prison and demanded better living conditions. And all of a sudden, three or four hours pass. You know, and we end up in courting or something. And maybe we eventually get to Boston. But if we don't, you know, it was really interesting, you know, seeing Attica and really interesting being in Corning or wherever else.

And we'll get to Boston, you know, at some other point. But that's kind of the way it was and that's kind of the way it felt in talking to all of my classmates. There's a good lesson in there, I think. You'll get there eventually, and if you don't, you'll end up somewhere else. Yeah, I think so. And I think that a lot of the challenge for us is accepting that and actually being content with that as opposed to like, you know, I failed to get to Boston. You know, I failed to be this lawyer that I was going to be. actually, you know, if you put, allow yourself to go back to that time, you didn't go to Boston or you didn't go to be a lawyer for really good reasons at that time.

You forget what those reasons were 30 years later and you may regret, oh, well, I should have done this, I should have done that. No, at that particular moment, you realized you shouldn't have been a lawyer. You should have been something else. And there was something else that interested you more. and that's what you came to be and and and and and and and and that you know that one of the things in this book that was is like how do we deal with all of these kinds of stories about ourselves and I think that what we do is that what we're looking for is coherence you know in our own story we're looking to make sense of those things that we've done and the lives that we've

lived and that and that what and we're really looking for a story that we can live with. And we don't know whether our version of the story is right or not. We come up with one that, you know, that I can live with that. This is a great book. There's a lot that's in here about you, but also just about who we are and the place that we're in right now. It's really a pleasure to talk to you about.

Thanks a lot, Matt. Ken Dryden and I spoke back in October, 2003, about his memoir, the class, a memoir of a place, a time, and us. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.