The Current - Homelessness in Canada's smaller communities

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

The number of homeless people in smaller cities, towns and in rural communities is climbing. We hear from two mayors who are grappling with the surge in people experiencing homelessness. We'll also hear from Tim Richter, the founder of the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness, and the co-chair of the National Housing Council that's advising the federal Housing Minister, on what the solutions he's pushing for.

This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always overdelivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarbro.cairro.ca.

This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. My common-law spouse and I have been living in a motorhome for about six months now. And before that, we were kind of like living it rough. We were in a compound that had no power to water, no utility. So we had to basically learn how to survive from there for about a year. That's Tracy Litchfield in Medicine Hat, Alberta. Before living in that motor home, she and her spouse, Damon

Pavlik didn't have a place to live. In 2021, Madison Hat declared that it had ended chronic homelessness. This was an announcement that got attention right across the country. Now, the city is seeing more people living on the street. Seeing a lot more people out, trying to live through the cold, getting kicked out of places like Tim Horton's there, or keeping warm in the library. Damon, Tracy's partner, says the hardest part of all of this is how other people in that city have reacted. Well, the major one would be the stigmatism. That's the hardest one to deal with. You know, yell at us when they're driving by in their cars, all the stuff that they yell. And, you know, it's, yeah, it really hurts. Anybody that's not similar to them appearing,

they stigmatized them automatically and you're labeled and sunned and stuff. Tracy has some suggestions on what might help. The city council really needs to step up in any city, really, putting a rent cap so people can afford a place to live for one. Having more support, meaning, like, having more accessible housing and not having so many barriers to jump through or hoops to jump through. And for the regular people out there, just like, you know, just be kind, man, so love. Medicine Hat isn't alone. The number of people who are homeless is growing in smaller cities, towns, and rural communities across Canada. In Ontario, rural and smaller towns saw an increase in homelessness of 30% last year compared to 2024.

With me now are two mayors from communities that are working to find solutions to this crisis. Kim Chamberlain is the mayor of Bathurst, New Brunswick, a city of 16,000 people, about three hours north of Fredericton. And Colleen Smook is the mayor of Thompson, Manitoba, where about 13,500 people live. That town is seven and a half hours north of Winnipeg, and they both join us now. Good morning to you both. Good morning. Good morning. Mayor Chamberlain, you said that in 2021, there was hardly any homelessness in Bathurst,

that there were no encampments, no people sleeping in tents. What has changed since then? Good question. I think the cost of living after the pandemic, you know, we had a 10, we did have a, you know, a homeless shelter with 10 beds, but that sufficed for many, many years for the ones that, in case day, it and fell through hard times. But our numbers have been growing.

And I truly believe it's become the cost of living and everything else I came into play. And now we have 61 true homeless. We did the final count just in November. And we have 61 homeless in our municipality, which is quite a bit in our area. When you say true homeless, what do you mean by that? Well, see, when we hear what we do, we've created a committee and I've been involved and I've been working with the provincial government with social development. And we have homeless, which we call couch surfers.

So these are people that are living with family and friends, but do not have an actual address, like a place to stay, either because they're on disability and what they're getting on disability is not enough to cover the fees of rent. So they've been staying with family and friends, but they don't have a permanent address. The homeless are the ones that are really either in the shelter, warming center or living in a few tents.

So we've been working on that. Our fire department has been working with us. Last summer it was so warm. They would actually try to find them and see if there was any encampment so we make sure we give them water. And we have an area where they can go for lunch every day. So we've been trying to come up with solution. And that's why we're coming up with the 40 units, permanent units that we're putting in

place, which will be ready at the end of February. is going to be a huge gain changer for our area. I want to come back to those units, but right now what you're seeing, I mean, you said there weren't encampments, now there are encampments. Well, there's not necessarily a lot of encampments. You'll have a tent here with maybe two people living in it,

or, you know, behind one of the shopping mall, we'll have one tent there, you know. And then with the warming center, so they go around and we have our warming center for the winter, and we go up and the transportation is free if they want to, come and they have access to it. Some do refuse the service, but rarely right now our warming center is full. Mayor Smook, what about for you? That's the situation in Bathurst. What's happening in Thompson? So Thompson has always had an unsheltered population. And years ago, we did have quite a few

larger encampments around town. And at the time, the city government at the time decided to move these for safety reasons. So they really hadn't caused too much trouble. What it did do is drive a lot of the unsheltered and vulnerable people downtown to our downtown area. And we did have a homeless shelter that held about 25 people, was always at max. And in the wintertime, we would open up our outdoor skating rink shelters for overflow for the nights. Last night, we were lucky it was, you know, 27 below last. week it was 35 below. So definitely our, and we sit around, our pit count actually told us we have

about 284 homeless, but we're definitely closer to the, you know, 500 that are down, you know, in the city at any given time. I can imagine there are people who are saying that, I mean, you're surprised to hear that you're lucky that it's 27 below, but it's still you're in the belly of winter and I just wonder how people are coping, given how cold it is. Well, exactly. And those of us that have homes and that we're well off and still don't want to go outside. Never mind if you don't know where you're going to lay your head at night. Our homeless shelter, our Well Briety Center, it holds a capacity of about 100. So we have a lot of, you know, the couch surfing, our banks have all locked their lobby so people can't sleep in there like they used to and that.

So it's definitely an issue up here. Have you seen that change? I mean, I'm going to come back to Kim in a moment, but Colleen, have you seen that change in Thompson over the last few years in terms of just the numbers? They've been creeping up over the last few years. The pandemic likely didn't help us, but it definitely isn't just a pandemic. We're a service area for 65,000 people. And a lot of those, the housing on the reserves, the outlying community is totally inadequate. There's, you know, 12, 15 people in a 7,800 square foot house. So you come to Thompson and if you have your own cot, that's actually, you're not sharing with somebody. So definitely that's one of the reasons that people end up in Thompson is there is no place on their own, you know, their own community for them. Kim, what about for you?

You mentioned the cost of a living crisis. What's changed in Bathurst over the last few years that is pushing more people out onto the streets? We certainly had a shortage of housing and affordable housing was one that we were working on. We're very fortunate. We've been working in collaboration with the provincial government and they've really stepped up. I've met with a few ministers and these 40 units that we are putting together, the provincial government invested a million dollars to make this happen. And I know that they've been working extremely to charge. to have affordable housing. So, you know, we were able to get funding through the federal government

with the accelerator fund. And we have been working with developers to say, would you be willing to do a certain amount of your units? Let's say if they're building 64 units, would you do 10% or 20% of affordable housing? And they actually have. And if they do, they actually can work with the provincial government and get additional incentive. So the government is trying to work with developers to try to have some units that can become affordable housing for NB housing. We have right now, just in our area, initial area, we have about 632 families waiting for affordable affordable housing. So that's where the numbers and that's why, you know, way before the pandemic, rent here,

$700,750, everything included sometimes. And what is it now? Now standard after the pandemic, we've seen a lot of people from Ontario buying the apartment buildings that were here came, bought them and went from 750 to 1150 with no renovation whatsoever. It's a big jump. Yeah. Well, one of the things we heard, Kim, was in Madison Haddia, Damon and Tracy talking about the stigma around this. There are people who, and I said this at the beginning, might have thought that homelessness was a big city problem. When it comes to a smaller community like yours, how are people in Bathurst reacting to, you know, the site of people sleeping intents, for example?

Well, it's not perfect. It's certainly not perfect. But what I can tell you is, you know, when we have new homeless showing up in Bathurst and they're not from Bathurst, you know, that we have quite a few employees that contracts with the Regional Service Commission and they have, you know, employees going and walking around to see if they need any help and whatnot. And a lot of them are saying, like, if they're new, okay, what brings you to Bathers? Well, we were told, go to Bathers. The citizens take care of you here. And, I mean, our warming center that we have as an example, we sent the letter to all the neighbors saying it was going to be a temporary warming center until the units were ready at the end of February. And we've had residents in the area showing up at the warming center and say, I thought you were having a warming center. Well, yes, we do. You do, really.

So it's so quiet. now that they do, they're showing up with clothing, food. The citizens, you know, you sit outside a gas station and there's a Tim Morton's there. You can be fed three times in a day without lie because I'll go in and I'll say, has he been fed yet? And they're like, yep, third time today. Oh, okay. So, you know, it's everybody like even our church, we have a local church.

We have a group of volunteers. We have her food bank. There is a church that they volunteers, that they make meals, for supper, for the ones that are choosing not to use the warming center or the homeless shelter. There are a few, not a lot. But no, overall, again, it's not perfect, but overall, the citizens have been very open and very caring. This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high this often.

You've got to be an underdog that always overdelivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors, all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarbro.cairbo.ca. This message comes from Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on a Viking longship with thoughtful service.

destination-focused dining and cultural enrichment, on board and on shore. With a variety of voyages and sailing dates to choose from, now is the time to explore Europe's waterways. Learn more at viking.com. What about for you calling up in Thompson? I mean, you mentioned that the banks are locking the vestibules, for example. How are people responding to this? Yeah, so basically in Thompson, they sort of, of mixed homelessness and loitering as crime.

And a lot of it, it's not really crime happening as people loitering and, you know, not maybe be the best situation. Those are downtown, our vulnerable population, also the Wal-Briety Center, they do have meals. We have a couple of the churches that do step up and help some of the people. But basically, for the most part, we have a community safety, well-being plan that include the RCMP, city members, all community members, provincial government members, that make plans and try, find. The Mumuituk Friendship Center, they've just opened a new apartment block.

It's 12 units, but it's affordable housing, and it's mostly for the elders and seniors, so it's a start. And we're always talking about housing, and I agree with Kim, we have had over, and it's pre-pandemic even, developers come in and buy up our apartment blocks and rents, like she said, gone from $5 to $700 to $1,000 plus. And that's, again, so that puts us in the condition that we have, you know, many people living in one apartment again. We're back up that you could have to have people in an apartment.

And then we have, you know, heavy, you know, addictions, problems up here, mental health issues. So there's people that pray on that. We don't have the services that we need to deal with. all these issues. So it's definitely an ongoing lobby effort to the provincial and the federal government. Let me ask you about the provincial government, because the Manitoba government released this plan to end chronic homelessness in the province a year ago. $20 million was pledged over a couple of years. This was a big promise, and a lot of people

wondered whether the Premier would be able to make something like this happen. Is your sense that that plan includes support for smaller communities like yours, Colleen? Oh, definitely. I can say that our premier government work with us very well. They actually, we were actually, I was on a trip to Houston, a housing first model down there with a bunch of other Manitobans so that we could take lessons from them. And definitely, it's starting to work here, but it's not a problem that happened overnight. So it's going to take a little bit to get things going. But we've definitely got a couple buildings that we're renovating, you know, that will hold, you know, possibly up to, I think it's close to 100 units there that will be, you know, transitional housing, housing for, you know, persons that need extra help. We're working on getting nurses and people in the Well, Briety Center, RCMP, that can actually work with the people, Parity Center, RCP, that can actually work with the people.

medics and that that will avoid a lot of the health issues. Kim, what about for you? I mean, you mentioned the modular housing. New Brunswick put forward this million dollar contribution to this housing plan. It's going to create upwards of 40 units or units for 40 people. What does that going to mean in terms of how addressing the crisis that you have laid out? It's certainly going to help. And our, the way we're going to be operating is a bit different because, you know, we'll have, it's going to be three to four employees on staff 24 hours a day, services will be there. And there's an additional area where mental health or addiction will be able to come to them. So, you know, they will be able to come in and

be able to help the people that are looking for help. You know, of course, there is more improvement that needs to be done here. I think that they're short staff here when it comes to mental health and addiction. But at least it's going to be like one area where the services will be able to come to them to help them. Sometimes, you know, they really don't want to go in the government building or meet with someone else. So if someone comes to them and meets with them, it might be a lot easier. And we're, it's going to be ready at the end of the month. We're really happy. Everything is going to be there for them, you know, they have the washrooms and the showers and everything else. And that little unit is going to be theirs. Our goal is to have them and, you know, try to work

with a plan to see how we can transition them. How can we help them? You know, some of them, it is mental health. Some of them, it is addiction. So these are not as easy to work with. But by being able to have the services and the tools to help them, hopefully it's all new for us, right? We had a 10-bed homeless shelter. But the fact that we were able to have this, we're stepping in the right direction. And a lot of them, and I said that the other day, this can be your daughter, your son, your brother, your father.

it can happen to anybody. And at the end of the day, they're all human beings. And we need to try to, as much as we possibly can, take care of them and give them the service. So we also have a community safety plan here. There's a committee in place. I actually sit on a committee at the provincial level as well to try to see how we can help each other out. And I don't think it's going to go anywhere. I think you can invest millions and millions.

More is going to come. Unless we have more affordable housing and more services for mental health and addiction, that we can give them the treatment that they need in order to get them back on their feet, it's not going to go anywhere. We need more affordable housing. And I think that's the baseline here. We're going to talk more about that in just a moment. I'm really glad to have you both here to give a snapshot of what's happening in your communities.

Thank you both for speaking with us. Our pleasure. Thank you. Kim Chamberlain is Mayor of Bathurst, New Brunswick, and Colleen Smook is the mayor of Thompson. Manitoba. Tim Richter is the president and CEO of the Canadian Alliance to end homelessness. His organization works with about 60 communities across this country grappling with this issue. He's in Cochran, Alberta this morning. Tim, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. Kim said this is all new for us. There is that narrative that homelessness,

encampments, what have you. It's a big city issue. It's not happening in small communities. How incorrect is that narrative in 2026? Well, we're seeing it in every corner of the country, right now. And, you know, in the last, well, since about 2019, 2018, 2019, we've seen almost a doubling of the overall homeless population in Canada and about a 300% increase in unsheltered homelessness. And that's how, you know, homelessness normally looks in rural communities these days. But, you know, as your guests have pointed out, this really is, you know, a product of the cost of living crisis and just a lack of affordable housing, but it's in every corner of the country now. more about why this is happening? And again, both mayors talked about the fact that people came in,

bought up apartments that might have been more affordable, the rent went up, people couldn't afford them anymore. From your perspective, why is this happening? Why have we seen an increase in homelessness right across the country, particularly in those smaller communities? Well, they've hit the nail on the head. You know, homelessness is a housing problem. And, you know, in this period where we've seen a huge increase in homelessness. We've also seen significant increases in rent ranging, you know, on average from 20 to 30 percent. Same thing in the cost of everything, you know, especially groceries. When you're a low-income household in Canada, you're spending 85 percent of your budget on food and rent. And when both of those things go up 20, 30 percent, you're basically getting

pushed out the bottom of the housing market. You know, in the same time, we're seeing record use of food banks. There's an all-time record in March 2025 of food bank use, and it's up almost 100% over 2019. And that's just an indication of really significant financial stress in low-income households. And that's down to the cost of living and the absence of affordable housing.

How difficult is it for those communities, those smaller communities, to meet the need that suddenly they are being presented with. They have smaller budgets. They have different things that they're funding. And suddenly this comes on the horizon, and maybe this was not accounted for in thinking about what a smaller town or a smaller city would need.

So how difficult is it for them to meet that need? Oh, sure. I talk to communities all the time now where they're dealing with a problem they've never seen before. At a level, they just find the stunning. And municipal governments across the country, whether they're small towns or big cities really don't have the resources on their own to respond to this. And, you know, I like to equate the impact of homelessness to natural disaster.

And the rate that the number, the sheer number of people in Canada who have lost their homes due to the lack of affordable housing or the cost of living eclipses the loss of housing from any major natural disaster in Canadian history, right? And in those natural disasters, cities alone don't have the ability to respond to the emergency, never mind supporting people get back into their homes. And in that system, in that scenario, you know, the municipal government leads and senior governments come in and support them. But in the case of homelessness, that's just not there. And often, municipal governments are on their own. And, you know, and the response from senior governments is uncoordinated at best or absent at worst. And, you know, so they're really, really struggling.

And so we need to be, we really need to be treating homelessness like the disaster it is. And it's going to be really important for the three levels of government to work together. We do solve homelessness in Canada all the time. Like we solve it all the time when it comes to natural disaster. But we don't when it comes to poverty and policy. If this is about housing, you, I mean, it's worth noting, in the globe and mail in the last couple of days, you co-wrote an opinion piece talking about a Canada housing accord, but also saying that we aren't going to get, these are your words, we won't get another moment like this to address the housing crisis. What is the opportunity now for governments in smaller communities, bigger cities, but also, you know, the provincial governments, territorial governments and the federal government to lean into this moment? Well, we're not going to have a moment like this again, in part because it has never been quite like this in terms of just how bad it is.

But we've seen in Canada over the last couple years, certainly in the last year since the changes in the United States, you know, a willingness of the federal government of the provinces and the cities to work together on kind of a team Canada basis. the federal government is about to engage in a process to renew its national housing strategy. This is the perfect opportunity for the federal government of the provinces to work together and talk about how are they going to support these local governments in developing a system for resolving this problem. And how important is it in that that you make sure that the money just doesn't flow into the big cities? We're talking about smaller communities here, that they are part of whatever agreement comes out as well. Exactly, and that's precisely why we need to engage the provinces, right?

The municipal governments, in fact, the rate of rural homelessness is sometimes higher than in cities, right? On a per capita basis, the homelessness is often worse in rural communities than it is in urban centers. And so it's really important that we consider how we have an approach to homelessness that provides these small towns and communities with the resources they need, including working with First Nations, Inuit, Métis organizations to help figure out how to do on-reserve and urban, rural, and northern indigenous housing. Tim, really good to talk to you about this. We'll come back to this, I'm sure, in future. In the meantime, thank you very much.

Thanks, Matt. Tim Richter is president and CEO of the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness. He was in Cochran, Alberta. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.