The Current - Hope not lost for NDP, even as they fall in the polls: Former NDP MP

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

We pay a visit to Burnaby South — Jagmeet Singh’s riding — as the NDP falls to a distant third in the polls. Galloway hears from the former NDP member of parliament from that riding, Kennedy Stewart, who says NDP voters considering casting a ballot for Carney might still come through for the party.

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and let your email do the talking. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. We've voted and belonged to the NDP for many, many years, but we're so afraid of poly up Where we've actually donated some money to the liberals Straightly because we're so afraid of poly up and his mega ugly politics. Yes Yeah, exactly we think Jagmeet's a very honorable person, but he hasn't got a hope in hell, we believe.

He's just going to lose his seats because people like us are turning to the Liberals. Well, from Surrey we are off to Burnaby, to the area where NDP leader Jagmeet Singh is running. The NDP is polling at a distant third place right now, And while it is still early days in this election, there is chatter that Singh himself could be in trouble come election day. We caught up with Mark Lee, longtime NDP voter, about how he understands the state of that party

in this moment. My main issue is that I don't see a... I don't see a strong identity in the federal NDP and so it's hard to envision an actual it's it's hard to envision them winning first of all in my riding because it tends to not go that way but also on a on a national level I just feel like they haven't really capitalized on all of the wins that they've been getting while in this minority government situation where they've been having the supply and confidence agreement with the liberals,

they actually made huge strides and I think that lots of people are benefiting from that, but for some reason they haven't been able to capitalize on that and it's resulted in, you know, less support rather than more. Mark Lee is the Director of Continuous Improvement at the Kamwe Dim Sum in Vancouver's Chinatown. Here's a question for you. What's your email address saying about your Canadian business? First impressions matter and your email says a lot.

It's your customer's first look at your brand. A custom.ca email shows your credible, professional and proudly Canadian. It signals you do business in Canada. For Canadians, show you mean business from the get-go. Get your custom.ca email now at yourcustomemail.ca and let your email do the talking. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear

off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do, business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk business. We're sitting in the Fraser Park restaurant in Burnaby with me is the former mayor of Vancouver, former NDP member of parliament, Kennedy Stewart. Kennedy, good morning.

Hey, thanks for coming to the diner. Yeah, I wouldn't miss the sausages here. Place people across the country who don't know this community here. Where are we and how would you describe this community? Yeah, Burnaby is a suburb of Vancouver. It's right next to the city of Vancouver. When I was MP here, I always called it Vancouver Plus. So, and it's really When I was MP here, I always called it Vancouver Plus. And it really was a long-time working class community. But with housing values and things, the wealth has increased in this area. But where we are right now is in really an industrial part of the city, where

you have Amazon and Ballard fuel cells and all kinds of tech going on here, movie studios. So it's not you know, not residential, but that's where we are right now. We're going across the country talking to voters about who they're voting for and why. And we wanted to start here in Surrey and in Burnaby because these are communities, I mean, to your point, that are growing really quickly. You see an exponential kind of explosive growth.

That's right. Yeah. And along with growth comes things like housing challenges, you know, increasing service provision, traffic, all those kinds of things that hit major cities. So maybe from this used to be mostly farmland and now it's turned into industrial parks and all kinds of density as well in in Burnaby. So what do you hope the people who want to lead this country think about when they think about Burnaby? Well, what I think about as a long-time New Democrat is I hope that they have people's backs because times were tough before COVID, COVID made it even more intense and now with tariffs and all kinds of global uncertainty for regular folks life is going to get tougher and

I really hope they think about regular people and you know how they're going to make their mortgage payments, job security, health care, all those kind of good New Democrat values that's what I hope they're really thinking on and we'll hope to hear lots of that through the election. How do you understand I mean I was saying just when you came in maybe you're a recovering politician, former politician, somebody who now I mean isn't back in the university looking at political science. How do you see this moment in terms of the relationship between Canada and the United States?

Oh, it's a throwback. A throwback to what? Well, way long ago. You know, the US were isolationist protectionists, say, prior to World War II. And then they took on a much more global role. And I see them now retreating away from that global role which includes retreating away from partnerships with Canada. So it's a long throwback but and we're

unfamiliar with it but you know growing up with my grandparents, great uncles, they remember the time when the US wasn't as engaged in the world, wasn't as engaged with with trade and that's kind of what we're heading back to. We've been speaking with people here over the last couple of days who are really scared about what's happening right now. The idea of uncertainty kind of runs through all of our conversations. People don't know what's going to happen in the future, so they are worried about, perhaps if they can, putting any money into housing because they don't know what the economy is

going to look like. They're worried if they are, we spoke with people in trucking, they're worried about their business being able to operate back and forth across the border or what have you. How do you understand the concerns? I mean, what do you think in this community people are most worried about? I mean, I understand the concerns because I lived them. I was a middle-class kid growing up, but when I was 12, we had a recession, inflation spiked, my dad lost his job and we went bankrupt

and lost our house. So and we were thrown into poverty. So for me that's what I always thought of as a politician. I still think about it now is like it's those folks who I was middle class and then dropped out of the middle class for a long time. And I think people are right to be scared that that could happen to them, especially if, you know, tariffs cause massive job losses. It's going to be a tough time and they got to have somebody in Ottawa that's got their backs. So you've been talking and writing about kind of the response. And one of the things that you wrote is we need to think hard about knee-jerk, reciprocal

tariffs and cutting off energy as these actions might take the option of working with the United States off the table before we can even chew on it. There is, I mean it's not just the elbow is up kind of phrase, but there is an attitude in this country right now of take it to them. Do you know what I mean? If the United States is going to come at us, we're going to come at you. What's wrong with that? It's a short-term almost fear response to what's happening. In terms of Canada and the world, we really have three choices. We either kind of partner with the United States, we partner with Asia, mostly China,

or we partner with Europe. And we're going to have to choose one of those three avenues. What Brazil and Mexico have done, they have been put in reciprocal tariffs because they're still open in the UK. They're still thinking maybe there's a way we can work through things. They also haven't been threatened with annexation. I mean the president isn't talking about taking over Mexico or taking over the UK. He's talked about gobbling up this country. But watch Trump when he talks about it. He sees it as an offer to us. You think his idea of the 51st state is an offer? I think that's just really rhetoric but I think working with the

United States is something that's in his mind and it's something that we need to seriously consider not being annexed that's ridiculous but thinking about what does a new relationship with the United States look like and I mean people will get mad at me for saying that but you have to look at all the options and that is one option. You understand why people would get mad at you for saying that? I mean, I'm a new Democrat. I'm used to people being mad at me all the time. But the mood in the country is different. You would agree that there's something in the air if you put your finger up. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's being stoked for political advantage. It really is. Like, you know,

Doug Ford won his election by being tough with Trump. You see this here with David Eby doing the same thing, you know, tolling trucks going up to Alaska. But we have no way of competing with this massive economy. Like it's not a toe to toe battle. It is, we are in a very tight situation and we have to have clear thinkers that are going to look at what is the best way to grow our economy. It's not getting revenge, it's about the future and how we grow our economy. We have had a long conversation in this country

about foreign interference. Right, yeah. Is it interesting or ironic or just, I mean as somebody who studies this, how do you read the fact that we have foreign governments that are in some ways helping to shape the conversation that we're having in here about Canada? Yeah well they the CESA has said they happened in two of the elections I ran

in there was foreign interference in the 2018 and 2022 Vancouver civic elections so this is a problem that's not going away either and we're more susceptible to it than ever I do think we got a little peak of things with the with the recent Commission but we've just heard you know today that you know there India may have been interfering in Pierre Poliev's leadership. Which he didn't know about or was not briefed on because he does not have security clearance. Yeah when I was mayor I was briefed by CSIS. They could only tell me certain things about interference that were happening local, that was happening locally. So the liberals never really grasp that. I don't, I think they tried to avoid it. And I think that is another thing that again, we have to think about in terms

of our sovereignty, how prepared are we to really take a hard look at how foreign actors are playing roles in our own democratic processes. And I don't think we've really come to grips with it. When I started, when I told people that CESAs briefed me as mayor, they didn't believe me at first. And I think that is something that happens to all nations as part of our growing up that we can't seem to rely on the United States for this. So what are we going to do to kind of assert ourselves and grow as a country? We've been speaking with a number of voters in and around Burnaby who in past

had supported the NDP. Some are still supporting the NDP, some are saying this is not the time to support the NDP, that they see this as a party that perhaps is not relevant in this moment. How do you see that? I kind of think about my 2015 election experience where Tom Mulcair was going to be prime minister and then Justin Trudeau kind of came from nowhere to form a majority. So lots can happen through an election campaign. Tom Mulcair has also said that this is a two-horse race, former leader of the NDP.

Little bitter about being kicked out of the last leader. But he is somebody who, I mean, whether he likes the current leader or not, it's an interesting statement to make. Sure. And what I think about when I look at polling and stuff is it's not, you know, the voters are in the store, but they haven't made the purchase yet. So there's lots of people that have moved from the Conservatives and the NDP over to the current store, but they haven't gone to the register yet.

And I think that New Democrats you know voters there's lots of people who don't vote in Canada and they usually don't vote but the people who do vote pay a lot of attention we know this through political science studies and so voters are really watching and they're going to be looking at how these brands settle out because they're all changing right now a lot are in the liberal store they're watching how Kearney settles out but it really only takes one gaffe for New Democrats probably to return to a jug meat. Why are they not in the in I mean in the NDP aisle if you want to keep the the

the store metaphor going because the public opinion polling would suggest it's not just a two-horse race but the NDP is far away lower in the polls. What's going on there? I think you know in this moment in a moment where we're talking about Donald Trump why don't people think that Jagmeet Singh and the NDP are the legitimate concern? Yeah three things it's mostly on the liberal side right we have Trudeau going we have when we have Carney coming in in the face of a Trump menace. And so people are really looking, is this the person for the job? But what over the 30 days we have left, will they say, okay he's got maybe what it takes but what I'm looking

for is when I lose my job, who's gonna try to get higher EI rates? Who's gonna... And that's really the kind of thankless job the NDP does. Is there something about the leader, but Jagmeet Singh, that is not appealing to a base that perhaps, you're seeing conservatives peel off, you know, elements of organized labor, that again this is a gigantic quotation mark, but the working class, people define that the way that they want to see it. What is it about the leader that perhaps is not appealing to those voters, that perhaps might traditionally be part of an NDP block? Well just generally he's the least new leader.

Like, you know, both Poliev and Carney are newer than Jagmeet, so he's a known quantity. People really know his range. They know what he offers. And so he's familiar. So of course you're going to go over in the other stores and take a look at what you're going to buy. Now we'll see if it stays. We know that Kearney's support is soft, right? There are kind of people that have never voted liberal before that are starting to go over and take a look and they might just move back to the NDP if, and I think April 2nd is a key date, this is when Trump's tariffs are, you know, the announcement of what's happening and if it's catastrophic people may think less about who's best to fight Trump

Then it might change to who's got my back And if that's the case then they jug meat has the strongest brand when it comes to that question You believe you believe that you believe in this moment that people still see him as somebody who would have their well I don't think it's about Jagmeet becoming prime minister I think it's about Jagmeet kind of holding the balance his seats So that's really interesting. He is still campaigning, or I mean the campaign has just begun, but he is campaigning as though he wants to be prime minister. You're suggesting that that's not a definition of success for the party? Well, it's a weird one because I ran in 2004 with Jack Leighton in his first election,

and I always felt it was a bit weird saying the next prime minister candidate, Jack Leighton, wanted to introduce him, but however, he came about a week away from becoming prime minister in 2011. It's not out of reach for the NDP to imagine forming a government of some kind. This is a tougher moment for the New Democrats now and I think they know it so this is more so Juckmeet may become the most important person in the country the day after the election if there's a minority. If there's a minority government which is very possible, Jagmeet again plays the role of kingmaker. And so we could talk, oh it's

all over for him, you know, like you know his day is past, we have to get a new leader, whatever. He could become the most important person in the country the day after and I think that's something to keep in mind. We've had two minority governments in a row, There could be another one. I mean, we're here in Burnaby and there's if you look again, polling will change. Yeah. But there is a possibility that he could, Jogmeet Singh, could lose his seat. What does that tell you? I mean, there's those are all I mean, you Democrats, you always face that possibility.

I mean, I won mayor by a thousand votes. I won my seat twice. But do you think people in Burnaby feel connected to him? I mean, he spends a lot of time in Ottawa. He's from the Toronto area. Do people here actually feel connected to him? Yeah, I mean my sense, you know, I still talk to a lot of my former constituents and they they like Chuck Mead They understand the pressures he's under and then they talk about dental care, you know, they talk about pharmacare like those are important things for them and

You know, and I think it's it's the groundwork that will really matter for New Democrats right now like how much groundwork did they do before the election because incumbents have an advantage and the NDP dig in like crazy once they have a seat so so I think you know it looks dark right now in the polls I think but but I do think there's a fundamental there that will carry many incumbent New Democrats through. It's good to talk to you.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Kennedy Stewart is a former NDP member of parliament and former mayor of Vancouver. Pierre Poliev's housing platform resonates with me personally. Why? I think that if Pierre Poliev is elected and he serves a three, four year term, the groundwork that the conservatives will do will pave the way for inexpensive or at least more affordable housing in the years to come.

Do people of your generation think that if Polyev wins that they'll be able to get a house? That he will somehow manage to create the conditions to get them into the housing market? Yes, yes. I think that he has the best housing platform out of any of the candidates and young people are recognizing that. That's why 18 to 29 age bracket is dominated by the Conservative Party. Similarly, the 30 to 45 age bracket is dominated by the Conservative Party.