The Current - Hospital Parking Fees

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Hospital parking is expensive. Add that to the already high cost of being sick. Cancer patients, parents, and caregivers can spend thousands on parking and are calling for fees to be reduced or eliminated. But hospitals say they need the money to help pay for healthcare in a stretched system. We her from one patient about the cost. And why when Nova Scotia recently made parking at hospitals free, it didn't exactly go as planned.

Ten years ago, I asked my partner Kelsey if she would marry me. I did that, despite the fact that every living member of my family who had ever been married had also gotten divorced. Forever is a Long Time is a five-part series in which I talk to those relatives about why they got divorced and why they got married. You can listen to it now on CBC's Personally. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. I haven't been working for almost a year now just because I have to go to the hospital all the time and there's like side effects from chemo radiation and like surgeries all of that and I think having paying so much money for parking I think it's a little outrageous. Being in

hospital is a stressful experience for all sorts of reasons that's a cancer patient at one of the big hospitals in downtown Toronto speaking with our intern Isabella Calisi. Whether you're a patient or a family member those outrageous parking costs that the patient is talking about can really add up. Another woman named Nicole has a young child with kidney issues and spends a lot of time at the hospital and a lot of money on parking.

He's admitted very often to hospital and the amount of money does add up. It's hard for both of us to go back to work because he has a lot of high-maintenance medical attention. the amount of money does add up. It's hard for both of us to go back to work because he has a lot of high maintenance medical attention required. Credit card bills keep going up. And $20 is quite a bit, like on a day-to-day thing, and with him we don't know when we're going to leave, so it's kind of unexpected. Rup Rastogi visits his wife in the hospital daily says parking fees are a problem without an easy solution.

He estimates that he has spent more than $3,000 on parking since his wife went into hospital last year. My wife has been in hospital for eight months which is unfortunate on its own right but regarding the parking even with the discounted rate of $14 a day if you do the math over eight months it's very very expensive. right but regarding the parking is even with the discounted rate of $14 a day if you do the math over eight months it's very very expensive it's a braces can be a real burden on families but I don't know the solution for it though that's the problem the hospitals say they use the parking fees to put into other programs because they're not getting funded enough so it's a it's a cash 22

because you want services and facilities to be as high-end as possible but if they're not getting funding the funding has to come from somewhere. The cost of hospital parking has been a hot button issue for years across this country. Last month Nova Scotia eliminated parking fees at hospitals and health care facilities but earlier in June a private members bill to do something similar in Ontario was actually voted down. Marie Grgich supported that bill. She is in treatment for stage three lobular breast cancer, and she is with me in studio. Marie, good morning.

Good morning. How are you doing? I'm wonderful. And how are you? I'm great, thanks. I just wanted to make sure given what I mentioned in terms of care that you're getting right now, how you're feeling. When you started going in for treatment,

tell me a little bit about what this meant for you and how often you needed to go to the hospital. So, I was actually diagnosed in November 2022, which was initially believed to be stage two. It was then updated to stage three, lobular breast cancer. So for me that meant undergoing a mastectomy, chemo, radiation, lymph node dissection and a preventative hysterectomy. So over the past two and a half years, I would say it just has now tailed off, but I was spending, you know, during chemo and radiation, it's a daily visit. On top of that, you're doing bone scans, you're visiting your oncologist and the surgeon. There's many appointments aside from just treatment that are, you know, part of that care. You've been through a lot, and that's a lot of going to the hospital, a lot of figuring

out where you're going to park when you get to the hospital. Oh my goodness, yes. So how do those parking costs add up? Oh, I would say in the thick of it, you could be looking at anywhere between $400 to $500 a month. And that's between two hospitals. So that's something to keep in mind as well. Depending on where the patient

is, it could be treatment in two to three facilities. So, I was going to Markham-Stovall for chemo and then radiation elsewhere. And then depending where your doctors are, that might be a third facility that you're having to visit. Pete Slauson Are there, I mean, if you don't mind me asking, one of the things that people say is getting sick is expensive. Dr. Beth Domb expensive. Oh my goodness. Life is expensive at the best of times. Are there things to pay for that parking, which is necessary for you to get your treatment? Are there things elsewhere in life that you had

to make adjustments for, in terms of money that you would spend so that that money would be there? A million percent. You're definitely juggling balls and it depends where you are in life. So for my husband and I, that meant going into lines of credit, you will accumulate debt. There's a lot of other costs that aren't really considered with cancer. For my husband and I, trying to put three kids through university at the time. This is, I mean, you've said the cost of cancer is parking, it's the care, it's the hospital visits, it's the hospital beds, it's the medication. Given all of that, and just in talking about the parking issue, as I mentioned, you're

in Ontario, the province of Ontario is looking at this in terms of eliminating parking fees like Nova Scotia did at some of its healthcare facilities. When this bill was voted down, what went through your mind? To be honest, I felt even more determined to keep going and to keep sharing my story because I think it's important that cancer patients and all patients, to be honest, should not have to be carrying that burden. Now, I don't believe the hospital should either, but I think there are options that we can perhaps consider, you know, whether it's a token, whether it's validating, because I know one of the major issues that was brought up was that people were taking advantage of that free parking, so people that were not even attending the hospital.

But I think that at the end of the day, when you're going through a cancer treatment and you're worrying about putting food on the table and you're worrying about, you know, to keep in mind, if you're privileged enough to have private health care, you're still not 100% covered. We think as Canadians, it's free health care and it is not. It does come at a cost. And so, for example, you know, you're paying parking and some people have to decide, do I put a meal on the table or do I go to chemo today? That's an incredible choice to have to make. Isn't it?

Do you know what I mean? We asked the Ontario Hospital Association about these parking fees and they sent us a statement that reads in part, in cases where parking costs may pose a significant concern, Ontario's hospitals have policies in place and work with those individuals to find a solution. It goes on to say that parking revenue is an investment in supporting patient care and that these fees give hospitals financial and operational stability and allow them to invest

in things like medical and diagnostic equipment. What do you make of that? That the hospitals need the money that patients have to pay and their families have to pay when they are there at the hospital to pay for the care that we get? Listen, I believe that the hospital needs the money to care. Absolutely, that is not a question. But I do not believe that it should be the patients that pay it. Can I just, before I let you go, just go back to something that you said earlier, which is that idea that what you don't want is a patient that has to choose between going for

chemo and putting food on the table because money is tight. What would you say if you were able to talk to the Premier of Ontario? What would you say about that dilemma? I would ask them how they would feel if that was their mother or their daughter going through care and having to decide, do I adhere to a medication that has the potential to stop reoccurrence, or do I not attend chemo today because I'm worried that hydro's going to come cut off my electricity because I'm now behind because I'm not making what I was making. Now I'm dealing with all of these added expenses.

For example, my prosthetic was actually subsidized and it's a custom breast form that goes at the base cost of $5,000. So I would ask the Premier if this was his daughter or his mother, would he not want that to be not even an option? Like that's the care. I'm glad to have you here. Thank you for coming in and I wish you the very best of health. Yes, thanks so much for having me. Marie Grigorych is an advocate for free parking at hospitals and is in treatment for stage 3 lobular breast cancer. World of Secrets, the Killing Call, a BBC World Service investigation into the murder of Punjabi

singer and rapper Sidhu Musseala. The facts, they aren't out in the open. Why Sidhu Musseala, you know? Uncovering a global criminal underworld that reaches far beyond India's borders. There are so many rumors. No one wants to talk. There might be repercussions. World of Secrets, the killing call. Listen on the BBC app or wherever you get your podcasts. As I mentioned, while patients in Ontario and many other provinces are still paying for hospital parking, it's been free in Nova Scotia since the 1st of May, British Columbia

brought in free parking at hospitals in 2020 near the start of the pandemic, only to partially abandon that practice years later, two years later actually. Andre Picard is a health columnist for the Globe and Mail. He has been covering this issue for years. Andre, good morning. Good morning. I say for years because you have written about this and I know that the response, you get a response for anything that you write, but the response from

your readers for this issue was particularly strong. What have you heard from readers on this? Yeah, this issue comes up, it raises its head every few years for decades and this one that really rankles readers. It feels when you go to pay for parking, say you're getting cancer treatment like Marie, it really is like adding insult to injury. So that's, it hurts people. They feel it every single day and it bothers them. And then we get these motions in government to give free parking. And then we realized the complexity of this, that this isn't as simple as we'd like it to be. Tell me a little bit about BC and the experiments that it was in BC when it came to free parking. Yeah, so BC right around the time the pandemic started, by coincidence they brought in free

parking. It worked well for a couple of years and then people started going back to work. And the problem is people who are not at the hospital use the parking. So it's used by non-patients, non-staff. So the condition, it actually became worse afterwards to get parking because all the parking spots were stolen, if you will, in quotes. So then they realized, well, we have to do something differently. And now it's very selective. So cancer patients, dialysis patients get free parking. People whose kids are in a children's hospital overnight, free parking. And every province has different approaches to this.

In Quebec, for example, it's two hours free parking, then it's capped. Nova Scotia, as you mentioned, brought in free parking, but then they had the same problem. Their lots are overflowing, so they're looking for ways to bring in validation, confirmation systems. So there's all kinds of ways of doing this, but just saying parking is free, that doesn't seem to work. And Ontario, I mean, we talked about that Ontario bill that failed. Ontario tried to find a solution before and it didn't go anywhere. Is that right?

Yeah, about a decade ago, they brought in essentially limits on parking. So they capped the amount that you pay daily. They brought in low-cost monthly passes for people. You heard Marie mention that. Those still exist. If you know you're going to visit a hospital lot, you can get a cheap pass like staff. So there's different initiatives. Ontario had them a decade ago and then every province comes up with this debate at some point. So let me sneak in one more voice into our conversation, Andrea. Michael Rackless is a public health physician professor at the University of Toronto's Dal Atlanta School of Public Health, has been listening to our conversations.

Good morning to you. Good morning. Nice to see you. What sort of money are hospitals making from these fees? As near as one can tell, it looks like it's something like 800 million plus minus across the country. Looks like it's maybe something like one half to one percent that area of overall hospital funding in this country. So it's a small portion of hospital funding, but $800 million is a lot of money.

And so how did this come to pass that the hospitals would rely on parking fees to some degree to help pay for the operation of their institutions and the care that we get? It generally got kick-started sometime late 70s early 80s when certainly in Ontario we had health ministers who were saying things like it's time to run hospitals like a business and hospitals were encouraged to maximize other revenue which included who were saying things like, it's time to run hospitals like a business. And hospitals were encouraged to maximize other revenue, which included food, and then they started inviting chain restaurants in to lease spaces and parking as well. So it's always been this initiative of, let's get some other money in the healthcare system besides our tax dollars.

So Nova Scotia, as I mentioned, they eliminated hospital parking, but it has not gone particularly well. There are some hospital workers who say that at times it's harder to get parking when they need it and that they have been late for work, that they have had to park in different areas. Have a listen to Sandra Mullen, who's the president of the Nova Scotia Government and General Employees Union. Folks could not get access to space in the park aids because of course they want to reserve park aids base

for patients and folks who are coming in for appointments. And they were telling folks, you can't park during peak times, but our members have to work during those peak times. So it's a real challenge. And then they get in there, park overnight and they have access, But the way shifts work and having to continue working past the end of your shift,

they're coming out and finding a parking ticket because they should have been out by 7 a.m. when in fact they've had to work overtime for the employer. We contacted the Nova Scotia Health Ministry. They told us that the main problem is that the province has two major hospitals in downtown Halifax where parking has always been limited. They're working to find a fix. The health minister said that the system is going through growing pains. They said, we need to find that balance between reserving enough spaces

so the patients and visitors can find parking, but also trying to accommodate staff as much as possible. Andre Picard, are you sympathetic with hospital staff and what they're dealing with when we say eliminate free parking? It turns out that maybe somebody parks to go to the movie rather than go to the hospital? Yeah, it is finding a balance. You know, I know just in downtown Halifax, they need, they've estimated at peak, they need about 6,000 spaces and they only have about 3,500. So this is an ongoing problem. And then we have free parking, it adds to that complexity because again, the spots get stolen.

The staff have to pay more. So these are different issues, actually. Free parking for patients and for staff. Should we be subsidizing well-paid health care workers? Parking is a question. Maybe we'd be better off giving them free transit passes. It's not always about cars. There's other issues there.

Would it be feasible, Andre, to have a system of validated parking? This is a bit of what Marie was saying. You validate or you give a token so that the splash actually go to people who need them? Yeah, I think that's the answer and we know it can be done. It's done very well in Quebec, it's done in BC. The validation systems work well. What you don't want is the validation having to be done by the nurses, you know, adding to the burden of staff. So you have to make sure you have dedicated support staff. And you know, honestly, we don't do that very well in Canadian healthcare.

We put a lot of burden on health professionals to do this administrative task. And that's the last thing they need is to be stamping the parking of people. What about this idea, Andre, that these hospitals, I mean, and Michael said the percentage is low, but it's still, you know, 800-some million dollars, that the hospitals need this money, that in a healthcare system that is stretched at or beyond its limit already, that any money is good money and necessary money, and that the money that we pay ends up coming back

to us in some form of care. Yeah, they do need that money, and you know, that's pay ends up coming back to us in some form of care. Yeah, they do need that money, and that's valuable real estate that's being used for parking in downtown Toronto. It should have a payback. I think it also should lead us to think about a larger issue.

We think in Canadian healthcare that everything's covered. Take a big hospital, the largest hospital in Canada is UHN. They have a budget of about $3 billion. They only get $2 billion from the province. They have so-called ancillary services, which include parking, renting clinics, having fast food. They have all kinds of other things where they raise money. Parking is actually the least of it. $600 million a year is brought

in income from one hospital from doing other stuff. So we have to remember the hospitals are big businesses and just part of their funding comes from the state. Michael Rackless, there are a lot of people who don't have cars at all. And it's not to suggest that those who are driving are somehow at fault here, but for people who don't have a car, how do you take that

into account in this discussion? What do we need to think about there so that those folks who are going to hospital For people who don't have a car, how do you take that into account in this discussion? What do we need to think about there so that those folks who are going to hospital or who are visiting people in hospital also are taking a hit in the wallet? I think that for me it goes back to, are you patient-centered? We use that phrase all the time. And unfortunately, it sort of came in like 25 years ago, along with other sort of the quality initiatives, and we've really forgot about it a lot.

But when somebody is being set up for long-term outpatient cancer care, let's say, or they're being admitted to hospital, and they're going to be there for a while, there should be some sort of discussion about how difficult is it going to be to get here. You know, almost 50 years ago when I was in practice in a community health center downtown Toronto, we had to deal with these things with patients all the time. How are you going to get here? Is it going to be too hard? Maybe we'll arrange a house call. These are the kinds of things that patients in Medicare would do. A quarter or more of seniors are readmitted to hospital in this country within two months. So you can't plan, you can't have somebody safe in hospital,

you can't plan a discharge properly so they won't return unless you are fully engaged with the family. And part of one tactic for that strategy is talking to them about how are you gonna get here every day, because we need you here every day. So if it's not parking, if people don't have a car, you're looking at subsidizing transit, for example, for people to get to a hospital?

Absolutely. In major cities? You do what you need to do. That you, like with any patient care thing, whether it's a cardiac surgery, neurosurgery, whatever, you've got your basic care that you're planning, and then you tailor it. And tailoring this care means for patients that you need to ensure that they can get to the hospital and their family can get to the hospital and part of That is transportation. You see you see this as part of their care. This is not a separate thing

It's not just a parking lot. This is part of the patient care. This is not a frill This is this is absolutely essential part of care Andre last word to you. What is the story really about? Michael Rackla says it's not about it's not a frill. It's not about parking. It's about care What is this story which has outraged Canadians? What is it about to you? It's about having access to your loved ones in a hospital. This stuff is really important. You shouldn't be in care without an advocate.

So this is important, but it's one of many important issues. What about daycare for people? What about public transit? What about feeding them? It is a complex issue, but it is one that really rankles people and sticks in their craw. Andre, thank you very much. Thanks.

Michael Raklos, thank you. Thank you. Andre Picard is a health columnist with The Globe and Mail. He was in Vancouver. Michael Raklos is a public health physician and professor at the University of Toronto's Dall'Allana School of Public Health. He was with me in our Toronto studio. You've been listening to The Current Podcast.

My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.