The Current - How Americans feel about Trump's fight with Canada

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

As the tariff disputes between Canada and the U.S. reverberate across both countries, we check in with three Americans for their perspectives on the trade fight. We'll hear from a retired autoworker who agrees with Trump, a former trade negotiator who thinks U.S. tariffs are necessary, and a professor who says the U.S. tariffs are 'galactically stupid'.

This week on two blocks from the White House. Canada is in an all-out trade war with the U.S. And neither side shows any sign of backing down. There's a lot at stake here, including how much Canada can stand the escalating economic threat from the U.S. So this week, we're asking how bad is this trade war going to get? Find and follow two blocks from the White House wherever you get your podcasts. And watch us on YouTube. New episodes drop every Wednesday. This is a CBC podcast.

I'm Susan Ormiston, and this is the current podcast. I'm doing what's right for America, other countries do what's right for them, and anybody who has some kind of a trade dispute or something, eventually it ends in a negotiation where you settle out and each side thinks like, well, I would have rather had this, but you find a compromised position. And I don't know, I don't, we're not there with Canada. That's U.S. trade representative Jameson Greer speaking with the CBC's Rosemary Barton last night. Greer says that he and President Donald Trump are doing what's best for America. Prime Minister Mark Carney and his ministers say they're doing the same for Canada.

Yesterday, we heard from Canadians about the impacts this hot trade dispute could have on them, and today we head south. Brian Ponybiker is a retired auto worker who led the group autoworkers for Trump. He's also running in the preliminaries in Michigan for state representative representing Republicans. He joins me now from New Baltimore, Michigan. Good morning. Good morning, Susan. I have one correction to make. Actually, I'm north of Ontario. We drive south into Detroit and then come across or under the tunnel into Canada.

It's one of the few places in America where we have to go south to get into Canada. You're absolutely right. South of the border, metaphorically speaking. I understand. Thanks for that geography correction. Do you support Donald Trump's further escalation in this trade dispute? Well, I'm not going to say that I, you know, I'm not going to. a comment on how he negotiates. The guy wrote the book on how to negotiate, but I will say I

100% support his general tariff plan, and I said so in the Rose Garden with him earlier in his administration. Even though those tariffs will have an impact on the cost of living for regular Americans? Yes, we're concerned about one thing, and that is jobs here in America. We've lost a lot of jobs, particularly since NAFTA was signed into law in 1994. We've lost 90,000 production facilities, and we need to get those facilities back, those jobs back, and that's our primary concern. If there's a little bit of a price increase, we're willing to pay it because it doesn't matter what something costs if you don't have a job. Canada's Prime Minister, Mark Carney, has called this an attack by the U.S. What do you think of that language?

No, it's not an attack. The Canadians are our friends and allies. They always have been, and they always will be. Donald Trump, you know, everybody knows his negotiating style. He stakes out his position. And, you know, now Doug Ford, Ontario premieres trying to jump in and go toe to toe with Donald Ford. And I think he's in way over his head.

He should stay out of it, let the negotiators like James and Greer and the Canadian trade negotiators work things out. This will all settle out in a matter of days or weeks. Maybe. It's true. The president and the Premier of Ontario have exchanged tit for tat barbs. That's for sure on both sides. But do you think Donald Trump has the auto workers' best interests at heart, even though, as you say, there's going to be pain here? He's the first president in my lifetime that has fought for the auto workers. He told me when he was running face to face that if he were elected, he would fight to bring our jobs back. He immediately scrapped the NAFTA agreement and negotiated the USMCA, and now he's going to reform that even more. And he's correct when he says Canada's been taking advantage of us for decades, and it's time to level the playing field.

Just briefly, how do you interpret that? Taking advantage, how? You've placed tariffs on American goods for years. It was just never highlighted by previous presidents. President Trump is a negotiator. He immediately looked at all of our trade agreements when he took office and he said, hey, we're being ripped off here by Japan, Canada, South Korea, and these are all our allies. So we're going to start being treated fairly by our allies.

We provide defense. We provide a lot of things for our allies, just like we do for the European Union. We protect Europe. And it's time we start getting treated fairly in our trade agreements. Of course, Canada's Prime Minister has a different view of that, saying that, that the tariffs in this country have been escalated because of tariffs that Donald Trump put on initially. We didn't start this attack is the way the premiers and prime minister have framed this. But in all of this, in the last seconds we have left, do you think Canadians should still consider Americans as friends?

Is this relationship intact? Absolutely. We should just, you know, we've watched President Trump negotiate previously. We know this thing's going to be settled here in the next few weeks. They'll come to an agreement that they can both live with, and the Canadians have been and will be our friends going into the future. I appreciate your optimism. It's hard to tell what's going to happen next.

Thank you so much for joining us this morning. Thank you for having me on, Susan. You're welcome. Brian Ponabacker is a retired auto worker who led the group Autoworkers for Trump. He is in New Baltimore, Michigan. Stephen Vaughn is a lawyer, and he is the former General Counsel, for the United States Trade Representative during President Donald Trump's first administration. He joins us just outside of Washington, D.C.

Good morning, Stephen. Good morning. Prime Minister Carney called it a bad deal, one that would destroy big Canadian industries like the auto sector. We heard, again, from Jameson Greer last night, saying Canada was getting the best deal the U.S. has offered anyone. Can both be true? Absolutely.

Both can absolutely be true. and obviously I think Ambassador Greer has made clear that Canada was offered a deal better than anybody else has been given. It sounds like Minister LeBlanc had agreed to the deal and that ultimately the prime minister decided to go in a different direction. But, you know, that's obviously his choice. But I think it's a real shame that Canada decided not to take the deal that was on the table. Some may interpret the U.S. explanation of this as saying to Canada, it may not be what you want or what you thought was in this deal, but that's what you're getting. Is that fair? Like I said, I think it was a very, you know, I know some of the terms of the deal. I think it was a very generous deal, certainly

compared to what anybody else was going to get. I think it's unrealistic for folks in Canada to think that they're going to get the same deal as if they were in Minnesota or Wisconsin or were part of the United States. But compared to other countries, yes, it was a very very good deal. And I think Canada should have taken it. There has to be some level of trust. You'd know that in the final stages of any negotiation. And Prime Minister Carney has said that the U.S. wanted to rewrite the deal at any time in the future, that sometimes the U.S. signature was in pencil. How would that work? I thought that was, yeah, I didn't understand that point. I mean, obviously, countries renegotiate deals all the time. But the European Union did a deal

with this administration. Japan did a deal with this administration. Korea did a deal. with this administration. Most of the big economies have done deals with this administration. And, you know, I think the administration has shown it's practical, it's pragmatic, it's trying to get something that works for both sides. And I think that's what was on the table here. Stephen, how would you describe the general feeling in the U.S. right now about this trade dispute? I think, obviously, you know, people are frustrated that they weren't able to reach an agreement. I, you know, obviously, Canada never gets as much coverage up here. I mean, down here as the relationship gets up there.

And I think people are going to look and see what this means for the overall U.S. economy. We're starting to see a lot of really good economic numbers down here. Obviously, as you know, the stock market is doing very well. So if the numbers continue to improve, if we see more manufacturing jobs and more production here in the United States, I don't think it will get as much attention down here as it gets up there. We know, though, that tariffs, counter-teriffs, mean that Americans will feel the impact as this has escalated.

How much are they worried when they're already battling rising costs of living? Well, I think most people recognize the rising costs of living are more related to the energy costs. In other words, we've had the tariffs have been in place, you know, a lot of these tariffs have been in place going all the way back to 2017. and at the beginning of the year, you know, before energy costs started to rise, we really weren't seeing that much inflation in the United States. So, you know, we'll see how it all plays out.

But I think as your previous guest just talked about, we tried free trade for a long time. It didn't really work out for us. The voters wanted to go in a different direction. And I think that's going to be true, no matter who's in power for the next few years. This is definitely an evolving story. And we're hearing this morning from Dominic LeBlanc, the minister responsible, for Canada, U.S. trade, that the U.S. is walking back on some of the contentious issues, including French language and Canadian culture, and Canada has also taken fish and seafood products

off their tariff list. Do you see a thaw happening? Well, listen, I'm, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, like I said, I think it's a great deal. If there are political things that need to happen, you know, to make that deal happen, I think that's fine. I think the U.S. has been pretty clear. language stuff was not really in the deal in the way it was described. But if it helps to sort of say that they've changed their position on that and that makes it easier to get to a deal, then that would be great. It feels, though, at least publicly, that we're in a bit of a tariff standoff. So you're an expert negotiator. What does it take now to bring down the temperature on both sides and get back to the table? And do you think this has been a mortal blow? Well, I think you

you clearly had an agreement between Ambassador Greer and Mr. LeBlanc. They did, I think everybody recognizes that they reached an agreement. And I think most people recognize that Prime Minister Carney decided, you know, to walk away from that agreement. There is now obviously going to be concerned in the administration that the prime minister is more interested in certain political issues, perhaps, than he is in getting a good trade deal. So I think part of what you would need to see is a desire on the part of the prime minister. to really come back and look at these things in a practical way. And hopefully that's what the minister's comments are setting up.

Some Canadians would say that it's not clear at all, who added last-minute demands and what those demands were. None of us were in the room. What message do you hope that Canadians listening to this will take away? Well, I would point out that the Americans have done, this administration has done deals with many, many, many countries. and most of those deals are implemented or are in place today. And so when we hear this description of last-minute changes,

that's not consistent with the history of this administration. When President Trump announces that he's made a deal, that usually means he's made a deal. So I think America was prepared to do this deal. I think they believed that they had a deal. I think the ambassador explained all of that very clearly last night on CBC. And, you know, I think Canadians should really look very, very closely at what was actually on the table. And I think when they look at it, they'll see it's a very good deal for both countries.

Just finally, would you acknowledge there is a breakdown in trust, though? Well, I mean, you know, everybody has to kind of make a decision about how much they think they can trust everybody else. Obviously, for example, we see Canada threatening our tech sector. We see Canada threatening to cut off things like potash. we see a lot of anti-American propaganda going on up in Canada. You know, this is something that people on both sides of the border have to decide. But again, I think if you look at the deal that was on the table, if you look at the actual facts of what the administration was willing to do,

they were offering Canada a very generous deal and a deal that every other country on earth would take in a heartbeat. All right. We'll have to leave it at that. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Stephen Vaughn is a lawyer and former General Counsel for the United States Trade Representative during President Donald Trump's first administration. From ice raids in the U.S. to migrant boats off the shores of Europe, immigration has always been a hot button issue. But here in Canada, that conversation has always sounded a bit different.

I'm Jamie Plasso, host of the Daily News podcast Frontburner, where recently we did a deep dive into how a bunch of Canadian politicians really changed their tune on the news. the issue of immigration. And what that means as the country shrinks its population for the first time in history. You can find those episodes on the front burner feed wherever you get your podcasts. Daniel Dresner is the academic dean and a distinguished professor of international politics at the Fletcher School at Tufts University. Good morning. Good morning, Susan. You've described the situation we're in tariff-wise as, quote, galactically stupid. The Wall Street Journal's editorial board called it the dumbest trade war in history. What's so stupid about it? Well, basically, since NAFTA, you can argue that the North American manufacturing sector has been

highly integrated. And that's particularly true with respect to autos. And it's also true with respect to our energy market. And this is one of the great strengths of both the Canadian and American economies is the idea that you're simply optimizing production. It doesn't necessarily matter whether there's a component made in Canada or a component made in the United States. That was renegotiated with Kusma, as you pointed out, to suddenly decide you want to tear that up and claim as Howard Lutnik, Secretary of Commerce has claimed, or as your previous guest claimed, we need to somehow relocate manufacturing jobs to the United States. Disrupts all of that. It creates a deadweight loss in terms of economic cost, both for the U.S. economy and for the Canadian economy. two of the most integrated economies in the world. And the dispute is over, you know, the claims that, you know, American negotiators have made that somehow Canadians are really sticking it to the United States is over what I can truly say are picky on issues. And it's not worth disrupting the entire economic relationship for that.

It does seem, however, from some commentators that Americans buy the president's assertion that Canada, quote, is ripping us off. Is that accurate? No, it's not accurate in the slightest. If you take a look at public opinion polling on how Americans feel about Canadians, you've seen a mild decline in how Republicans feel about Canadians, but even among Republicans who are obviously the most receptive to President Trump's rhetoric, over 60 percent of Republicans still look at Canadians favorably. The fundamental fact is Americans like Canadians.

And so the president's rhetoric to try to somehow demonize Canada and make it seem like it's just, you know, stealing American jobs, by and large, is not working, which is one of the reasons why politically this is a stupid tactic for the United States or for the Trump administration. As you've pointed out, you know, Canadians are extremely exercised about this. And as a result, Prime Minister Carney has extremely strong favorable ratings in terms of responding. That is not true on the U.S. side. There is not a lot of support in the United States for escalating a trade war with Canada, particularly escalating a trade war over a trade deal that the Trump administration negotiated in its first term.

Yes, that's true. You know, one of the questions we have in Canada is, is our Americans paying attention to this? It's summer. There's lots of concerns about how to pay for all kinds of things on both sides of the border. So is it making an impact and will these tariffs register? I think the answer is Americans are not. paying attention yet. The fundamental truth about Americans is that it's not that Americans are isolationist or that they're internationalist. Americans fundamentally don't care about

international relations right up until the moment that it affects their bottom line. And all of the tariffs that we're talking about right now have yet to actually be implemented. So I think it's going to take a little time for this to trickle down into how ordinary Americans feel about this. But I will say that in all likelihood, the Americans that are paying the most attention to this are the ones in Maine, in Ohio, in Michigan, in Alaska, in New Hampshire, states bordering Canada, states that have relatively pivotal Senate elections coming up that could affect control of the Senate come November. We heard one of our guests this morning say that he believes that Trump is the best negotiated in the world.

Yes, I laughed at that. That was very amusing to me. Okay. So what effect has this breakoff had on his reputation as a negotiator? It doesn't seem, according to our guess, that it has diminished it. I mean, it's telling that I believe Trump told CNN's Jim Shuto when Shudo asked him, did you change the conditions of the deal at the last minute? Trump said, yes, that sounds like me. And he didn't deny it. The truth is, is that Trump is, as negotiators go, pretty bad, actually. This is someone who had to declare bankruptcy multiple times when he was in the private sector. While you can point to a couple of trade deals that have been signed in his first year in office, they're pretty modest, to be honest. Actually, the biggest accomplishment in terms of international agreements that Trump has achieved was, in fact, Kusma. And it's telling that he is then ripping that up.

I would hereby challenge the Trump administration to point to any other international agreement that it is actually negotiated, that is actually managed to sustain itself over time. The truth is that when it comes to negotiations, Trump, even if he says he likes a deal, will often walk away from it or claim that he can revoke it due to presidential power, to his Article 2 powers. And so, you know, this is always the issue in terms of negotiating. Trump believes in tactical flexibility. He likes to be unpredictable, and he thinks that gives him a tactical advantage in negotiations. But the problem you always have to ask if you're on the other side is, do you trust Donald Trump to stick to any agreement that's actually signed? And think of the number of deals that ostensibly have been signed that wound up not getting implemented. The Islamabad Memorandum of Understanding with Iran is the most recent example of that.

We just have less than a half a minute left, but you mentioned the, upcoming midterms in America. Do you think that this trade dispute will impact a political fallout leading into those midterms? Yes, it absolutely will. As I said, in Maine, in Michigan, in Ohio, and in Alaska, you have very competitive Senate elections, elections that could tip the balance of power in the Senate. And I guarantee you that Democrats are going to use this as a way to continue to hammer the issue of affordability.

and contrary to what your previous guests have said, the primary focus that Americans have in terms of the U.S. economy is not jobs, it's prices. And his trade war is going to increase those prices. Daniel, thanks so much. Thank you. Daniel Dresner is the academic dean and a distinguished professor of international politics at the Fletcher School at Tufts University. He's in Newton, Massachusetts.

You've been listening to the current podcast. I'm Susan Ormiston. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca. slash podcasts.