The Current - How big podcasters helped Trump win

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Younger men voted for Donald Trump in big numbers, perhaps influenced by endorsements from ultra-popular podcasters like Joe Rogan and Lex Fridman. Journalist Rebecca Jennings explains how podcasters and influencers are shaking up the political ecosystem — and eclipsing mainstream media.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. In the wee hours of election night, one of Donald Trump's key supporters walked up on stage and thanked a surprising group of people. I want to thank some people real quick. I want to thank the Nelt Boys, Aiden Ross, Theo Vaughn, Bustle with the Boys, and last but not least, the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan. That's Dana White, head of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, or UFC. You may recognize some of the names he mentioned there.

They're all online media personalities. They each have millions and millions of followers, mostly American. But Canada got a shout out too, thanks to the Nelk Boys, a group of Canadian pranksters. Here is their endorsement of Trump. We just met the president of the United States, the leader of the free world. I'm not American, boys. I can't even vote. I'm Canadian. You guys should go out and vote. The election's tomorrow. What ties these different figures together, apart from endorsing Trump, is their pull largely with young men.

And one of the big stories coming out of this election is how that group of voters showed up in a big way for the Republicans. Rebecca Jennings is a senior correspondent covering online culture for Vox. Rebecca, good morning. Good morning. We heard Dana White name some names there. Good morning. We heard Dana White name some names there. When we are talking about these podcasters and influencers who are shaking up the political ecosystem, who are the big players?

Yeah, I think they kind of named them, right? It's like Joe Rogan, obviously, like the king of this kind of content that appeals to young men who are, you know, just asking questions and are curious about, you know, alternative media. We have Theo Vaughn. He's a podcaster, former reality star, just like kind of a comedian guy. Aiden Ross is, you know, a Twitch streamer. The Nelk Boys are these kind of YouTube pranksters. They're very similar to like the Paul brothers, Jake and Logan Paul, who people are probably also familiar with. They're very into like boxing and pranking and these kind of just like outlandish, distasteful videos where they kind of like poke back at mainstream culture. How popular, I mean, Joe Rogan is the most popular podcaster in the world. Beyond that,

how popular are these people? I mean, these are all really, really, really recognizable faces to most young people. They are influencers with millions and millions of followers on many different platforms. They are like kind of omnipresent online figures. So yeah, they're very popular. But I think to a lot of people that are not in those same algorithms, like older people or women, you might have no idea who these people are. And because your algorithm looks completely different. What is it that ties them together? Because they're all doing different things, right? Like the material that they are producing, the content they're producing is not the same across the board.

Yeah, totally. I think what ties them together is that like, these are young men, with the exception of Joe Rogan, who are like, they're often in groups of men, and they're just like having fun together. And I think that pull is really, really strong for a lot of men who feel kind of lonely and left behind. And, you know, they are not explicitly political people. I think a lot of those men would kind of not really consider themselves very political with the exception of like their Trump endorsements. But like, mostly they make content that's about, you know, video games or sports or pop culture or anything like outside of politics. But then, you know, these kind of issues like leak into their content. Is the audience not exclusively men, but is it mostly men? There

was polling that was done before the election and people are, you know, kind of sifting through the details of the exit polls showing that men and women 18 to 24 were more likely to identify as conservative. Are women listening to those podcasts in numbers? Yeah, I think it's possible. But I think generally with at least these kind of guys, like these are very much targeting, you know, teen boys and men in their 20s. Like, this is kind of the demographic that Trump is like, pretty like targeted with his media campaign when he went on all these podcasts and, and, and, and YouTube shows where, you know, he talked to these kinds of guys that like are reaching this

audience that the mainstream media just isn't. Why do you think Trump seemed to resonate so much with these figures? Yeah. I mean, I think they share a lot of the same values. I think influencers in general kind of behave like small business owners who like as a group kind of love Trump, um, you know, because, you know, they're entrepreneurs. And I think they see themselves as like people who, you know, built their platform all on their own. You know, they they really look towards these kind of expressions of wealth. They love like, you know, Rolexes and cyber trucks and they love like energy drinks. And these are things that like are kind of like conservative coded, at least in this current moment. What do you mean conservative coded?

I mean, I think they speak to this like aesthetic of masculinity that's very popular right now. And I think that there's a widening gender gap in terms of voting and in terms of like identifying with along the political spectrum. Many of these podcasts and these shows had Donald Trump on over the course of the campaign for interviews. What do you think it is that they give Donald Trump that the mainstream media doesn't? I think they give him kind of like a cool factor. I think while the Democratic Party has these A-list celebrity endorsements, I think they're finding that like those kind of endorsements just don't, like they don't move the needle

in the way that these kind of influencers reach people who otherwise might not have voted. Like if you're a person that cares about who JLo is voting for, you're probably already going to vote. But if you're someone that, you know, was just watching your favorite influencer do a show and Trump's on there and you kind of have like heard them talk a little bit about this, maybe that motivates you to vote and you otherwise wouldn't have. Let me ask you more about that moving the needle idea. Have a listen to Jake Paul. He made his name doing these prank videos on YouTube. He's now a boxer, as you mentioned, has a huge online following.

We need to change from Kamala Harris to the Republican candidate, Donald Trump. Kamala Harris is vice president, currently in the office and hasn't done anything while she's in office. Basically, no accomplishments. What is your sense? Again, the data is just coming in now. But what is your sense as to how much those endorsements, the appearances by Donald Trump

on podcasts, like on the Joe Rogan podcast, how much that actually moved the needle? How much that influenced the turnout from young men in this election? Yeah, I think that's kind of a million dollar question. Like all we have right now are exit polls, which like, you know, aren't super reliable, but like it did show that like more 18 to 29 year old men voted for Trump, like 49% to 47%. And, and there was just like a huge gender gap among young people. And I think when, when we see that young people get most of their information on social media and those groups of people have such different like just algorithms when they look at their phones, I think that that's kind of like a downstream effect of like what they're watching

on their phones and how they're behaving at the polls. Kamala Harris was on an incredibly popular podcast, Call Her Daddy. Why wasn't that able to move the needle in that same way, do you think? Yeah, I think that's such a great question. I think because like, so much of like, you know, left leaning content on social media just like, isn't very political. And I wouldn't even say Call Her Daddy is particularly left leaning. It's just more about like, you know, celebrity, you know, interviews and things like that. But I think with that one, it was a little bit too little too late. I think, you know, there just isn't that kind of left wing content creator network that the right wing has

for a lot of different reasons. But I think because, you know, Call Her Daddy was one show and I think you cannot replicate that on the left. You cannot replicate that power among young men and young people. There's an ongoing kind of autopsy of the democratic campaign right now as to why it failed. And one of the concerns that people have raised is that the Democrats missed the influence of that ecosystem. She was offered a spot on Joe Rogan on the podcast and didn't appear. Was that a mistake? Do you think? I think that was absolutely a mistake, but I also think that, you know, there was issues where, you know, Joe Rogan like wouldn't travel to her or she could only do an hour and so

i but i do think ultimately it was a mistake and i think one case study would be like bernie went on there you know many years ago and everyone thought that that was like a huge mistake you know that he was like you know flirting with the enemy but like i think we can look back now and as that like as a really smart move so talk more about that that idea of flirting with the enemy because to a lot of people this is like a new media ecosystem that exists on the right and the assumption perhaps in past is that you can't go on those podcasts because you're you're platforming something that that people may not feel comfortable with is that an argument that will that will float um in the wake of this election? I think what Democrats have to learn is how to build coalitions among people that you don't agree with everything on, but you can agree on one certain thing or something.

So I think if you're trying to pass certain measures or build support, you have to sort of talk to people who are not entirely ideologically like similar to you and i think the left has had a really really tough time with that but i do think that like there are lessons to learn there it's interesting because it's not traditional conservative media though it's not fox news that we're talking about or newsmax or what have you right it's it's people that like people that make their money online who for the most part do not consider themselves particularly political or right or left who who can be swayed. And I don't think that the Democrats have done a good job swaying those people who are entirely persuadable.

Is this a uniquely American trend, do you think? Are we seeing similar things unfold in other countries? I mean, there are elections that are happening this year right around the world, and there will be an election in this country sooner rather than later, many people believe. And so are we seeing this beyond the United States? Yeah, totally. I mean, as you mentioned, like the NELF boys are Canadian, but also like the seeds of this kind of like more explicitly like manosphere movement, Jordan Peterson, also Canadian, Andrew Tate has like part British, like these, these things have really worldwide

audiences. And we're also seeing how this kind of, you know, conservative bent among young people is not just an American thing. It's a worldwide thing. And so, you know, like, any response is not, you know, only America's problem. And in some ways, you ignore that influence of that media ecosphere at your peril. Right. Oh, absolutely. And I think we're learning that lesson really, really quick. Rebecca, thank you very much for this. Thank you so much for having me. Rebecca Jennings is a senior correspondent covering online culture at Vox. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.