The Current - How close is a ceasefire in Gaza?

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington this week and U.S. President Donald Trump says a Gaza ceasefire could be just days away. Meanwhile on the ground, aid workers say urgent action is needed to address the humanitarian crisis. We hear from Akram Saeed, a father living in a refugee camp in Khan Younis, who says every day is a struggle to survive. And Shaima Al-Obaidi with Save the Children says people in Gaza are being forced to risk their lives just to eat. And from Tel Aviv, political analyst Dahlia Scheindlin explains the political pressure the Israeli Prime Minister is facing at home and abroad to end the war.

Welcome to the Dudes Club, a brotherhood supporting men's health and wellness. Established in the Vancouver downtown Eastside in 2010, the Dudes Club is a community-based organization that focuses on indigenous men's health, many of whom are struggling with intergenerational trauma, addiction, poverty, homelessness, and chronic diseases. The aim is to reduce isolation and loneliness and for the men to regain a sense of pride and purpose in their lives. As a global health care company, Novo Nordisk is dedicated to driving change for a healthy world. It's what we've been doing since 1923. It also takes the strength and determination of the communities around us, whether it's through disease

awareness, fighting stigmas and loneliness, education, or empowering people to become more active. Novo Nordisk is supporting local changemakers because it takes more than medicine to live a healthy life. Leave your armor at the door. Watch this paid content on CBC Gem. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is the current podcast. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu continues his visit to Washington today, his third visit this year. Last night he and US President Donald Trump met for a private dinner and sounded optimistic

about the possibility of a ceasefire in Gaza. Israel and Hamas are holding indirect talks in Qatar right now. The terms of the deal being discussed include a 60-day ceasefire, the return of 28 hostages, 10 of whom are alive, and 18 bodies, and an immediate increase in aid to enter Gaza. President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday again brought up the idea of relocating Palestinians outside of Gaza. Akram Sayed is a Palestinian living in Han Yunis. We reached him in the crowded refugee camp where he lives.

I woke up to the sound of the planes hovering around Al Mawasi area, shooting or even bullets. Life in Gaza is nothing similar to life. People have been deprived from almost everything that will sustain their life and offer them some dignified sustenance. People have been besieged, people have been targeted, people have been moved from one place to another in continuous quest to dehumanize them and to strip of their human dignity. Although the two years of conflict have been extremely emotionally draining for me and for most of the Gazans, the last few months have been even more tiring, more exhausting,

more worrying. The war between Israel and Hamas has now stretched on for 21 months, killing more than 56,000 Palestinians. Much of Gaza has been reduced to rubble, and most of the population is now relying on humanitarian aid to survive. The living conditions are extremely lacking. People in Gaza have been not able to access food, non-food items, or any medical care services because of the widespread destruction that has been caused to the infrastructure. And the Gazans who have been going to the humanitarian distribution centers that were called by the occupation as places where the Gazans can access food are being shot dead or injured. In a moment, we'll hear about the pressures from inside and outside Israel on Benjamin Netanyahu.

As talks continue, there are urgent calls to improve aid distribution in Gaza where the humanitarian crisis continues. Shema Al-Obaidi is with the organization Save the Children. We've reached her in London, England. Good morning. Good morning. Hi. We just heard Akram describing Gazans trying to get access to food, being killed or injured. How difficult is it to access aid in Gaza today?

Well, when I was there in Gaza just a couple of months ago, I was there for eight weeks and what I witnessed over eight weeks wasn't just war, it was the slow and steady collapse of human life. I witnessed children being starved, they didn't have any money or any food. Aid is incredibly difficult to get because since the 2nd of March, aid was abruptly cut off. Humanitarian aid is stuck on the wrong side of the border and people are quite literally, whatever's been able to get into the strip now, people are quite literally risking their lives to get it.

That aid is being distributed by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Can you remind us what that is? So that is something that has now been set up. It's a military operation. Obviously, aid should never be politicized and food shouldn't be used as a weapon of war. Let's be clear that these operations are violating humanitarian principles. Aid must be delivered to those in need safely and urgently, delinked to any ongoing negotiations. They're not fit for purpose and they're killing and injuring

civilians including children on a mass scale. AMT – More than 500 Palestinians have been killed while seeking aid since the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation started operating in late May and thousands injured. Why is that? KM – Well, from what I understand and from what my colleagues on the ground are telling me, people are being shot whilst trying to get aid, people are being killed whilst trying to get aid, they're risking their lives. People are incredibly desperate. I mean, I remember speaking to mothers who were telling me that they were feeding their children animal feed because there was nothing left. They would walk for miles just to get water. I mean, I saw children, small children walking for miles just to get water. They were carrying drugs. I mean, I saw children, small children, walking for miles just to get water. They

were carrying drugs. I mean, fear has stolen childhoods. Children have aged beyond their years. It's quite devastating. Danielle Pletka Say if the Children is one of the more than 170 organizations that signed a declaration calling for the UN to take over the aid distribution again. What are you specifically asking for? We're asking to do our jobs. We already have a humanitarian system that's made up of aid agencies with decades of experience in these contexts. I mean, our very existence saved the children. We know we have the expertise to reach children

affected by conflict and we understand the importance of operating within international law. We're urging the international community to let us do our jobs and the longer the international community allows this to happen, the more children and civilians are sadly going to die. In a media statement last week, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation said it was ready to collaborate with other aid groups and quote, instead of bickering and throwing insults from the sidelines, we would welcome other humanitarian groups to join us and feed the people in Gaza. What do you say to that? Like I said before, we can't be politicizing aid. This system is not

fit for purpose. The rights and lives of children in Gaza should not depend on whatever negotiations are ongoing and should not be used as bargaining chips. Danielle Pletka How much aid is entering Gaza right now? Shona Kuhn Well, our aid is stuck at the wrong side of the border. None of our aid is able to get into Gaza. The little aid that is getting in, it's not enough to feed the population there. The situation is quite literally desperate. AMT – How much is required to meet people's needs right now in comparison to how much is getting in? KM – I mean I can't begin to describe the level of need in Gaza. I mean I was there during the ceasefire and we were having – there was plenty of trucks entering the strip, around 600 trucks from

what I understand was entering the strip at the time. And it wasn't near enough to meet the level of need that was there. People had lost their homes, they'd lost their jobs, they've got no money. I mean, the foods that was starting to become available in the market was only just becoming affordable for families. And then suddenly, suddenly and abruptly on the 2nd of March, when the whole ceasefire deal collapsed, it started with aid not entering the Gaza Strip. And then on March the 18th, the war resumed and it resumed aggressively and people's lives just as they were recovering had just turned upside down.

Now, Prime Minister Netanyahu met President Trump yesterday and among the things discussed was a ceasefire in Gaza. What would a ceasefire need to include to meaningfully address the humanitarian needs in Gaza? What children and their families in Gaza need is a permanent ceasefire, which means no bombs dropping at all, which means living without fear, which means being able to access food, which means being able to access healthcare, which means being able to access mental health support. I mean, the level of need is huge. It's huge and it's going to take years to rebuild. But the immediate needs

right now is feeding children, treating malnutrition, getting them the right aid, shelter, somewhere safe to go. If these talks don't result in a deal, what concerns you most? SH – It will be devastating for children. So many children are being killed. They are losing the very little hope that they have. And the very least that we owe children is a ceasefire. AMT – Shama, thanks for speaking with me today. Thank you for having me.

Shama Al-Abaidi is with Save the Children. We reached her in London, England. Welcome to the Dudes Club, a brotherhood supporting men's health and wellness. Established in the Vancouver downtown Eastside in 2010, The Dudes Club is a community-based organization that focuses on indigenous men's health, many of whom are struggling with intergenerational trauma, addiction, poverty, homelessness, and chronic diseases. The aim is to reduce isolation and loneliness,

and for the men to regain a sense of pride and purpose in their lives. As a global health care company, Novo Nordisk is dedicated to driving change for a healthy world. It's what we've been doing since 1923. It also takes the strength and determination of the communities around us. Whether it's through disease awareness, fighting stigmas and loneliness, education, or empowering people to become more active, Novo Nordisk is supporting local changemakers because it takes more than medicine to live a healthy life.

Leave your armor at the door. Watch this paid content on CBC Gem. Hey, how's it going? Amazing. I just finished paying off all my debt with the help of the Credit Counseling Society. Whoa, seriously? I could really use their help. It was easy. I called and spoke with a credit counselor right away. They asked me about my debt, salary, and regular expenses,

gave me a few options, and helped me along the way. You had a ton of debt, and you're saying Credit Counseling Society helped with all of it? Yup, and now I can sleep better at night. Ha ha ha! Right on! When debts got you, you've got us. Give Credit Counseling Society a call today. Visit nomordets.org. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is facing mounting pressure on multiple fronts.

His far-right coalition has long opposed a ceasefire with Hamas. At the same time, many Israelis are growing weary of the war and And internationally fatigue is also building even among Israel's key allies like the US. For more on the peace talks, the meeting between Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu and the political climate in Israel, I'm joined by Dahlia Schindlund. She's a political analyst, columnist and author of the book, The Crooked Timber of Democracy in Israel, Promise Unfulfilled. She's in Tel Aviv. Good morning. Thank you for having me.

This is Prime Minister Netanyahu's third meeting with President Trump this year. How is this meeting different from previous ones? I think this one is particularly focused or is intended to be specifically focused on two towering issues. Netanyahu hoped that it would be a victory meeting after the war with Iran that lasted 12 days. Netanyahu is portraying it as a stunning example of the partnership between the US and Israel, of course, the US having joined in the attack on Iranian nuclear sites. And so there's a lot of questions about what that means. Netanyahu has talked about this as an opportunity

for expanding Israel's relations in the Middle East. There is a lot of uncertainty about what will happen with the American and Iranian negotiations for a deal, which are very precarious and not really happening right now. And of course, there is the question of a ceasefire in Gaza. Now, when Netanyahu gave a statement before getting on the plane, he talked about Iran first,

how to leverage achievements and opportunities. He talked about Gaza second. I think nothing is coincidental with him. He always, throughout his political career, prioritizes the focus on Iran. But the issue of Gaza seems to be far more prominent in the Israeli public mind. And I say that because every Israeli is affected by it.

And surveys consistently show that a majority of Israelis would like to end the war in Gaza. They are feeling desperate for hostage release to release the remaining 50 people, about 20 of whom are assumed to be alive from Hamas captivity. And there is a very, very strong sense of really bitter frustration that there has not been a ceasefire deal that would achieve that hostage release up until now. In addition to fatigue among reservists and soldiers, fury over the imbalance of who is drafted in Israel and the ultra-Orthodox communities who are not drafted. So all of these are creating extremely immediate life and death dilemmas for Israelis, generating

a huge amount of bitterness and controversy. And that is why they are focused more on those issues with relation to the visit, probably even than Iran. Right, and how are Israelis feeling about Prime Minister Netanyahu's ability to end this war and return the hostages? Well, I think the main point is that they believe he has all the ability to end it, but that he won't do it.

And surveys, again, have repeatedly shown us over the course of at least a year now, every time the question is asked, is the war continuing? Is Netanyahu continuing the war or avoiding reaching a hostage deal because of genuine substantive concerns about Israel or for political reasons? The majority, whether it's 55 or 60, over 60 percent, but it's always a majority who believe that he is making those decisions for his own political reasons, because his coalition partners do not want to end the war. The reason

they don't want to end the war is because they want to continue destroying Gaza with all of the, you know, really unconscionable consequences that we just heard about for the people living there. And frankly, because they don't want Israel to give up control of Gaza really permanently, they hope to reestablish Israeli control, probably annexation, and definitely settlements. These are the coalition partners. It doesn't matter at this point whether Netanyahu agrees with them or not. He has held off on anything to do with a permanency spire, which is generally the main sticking point in these negotiations. And when you ask about Israelis, they are anything to do with a permanent ceasefire, which is generally the main sticking point

in these negotiations. And when you ask about Israelis, they are aware of that. Israelis know that the primary reason Netanyahu has not reached a ceasefire with Hamas and leaving aside Hamas's reasons why Hamas has not been flexible on this point is that the two sides are not able to agree over a permanent end to the war. Hamas wants to end the war permanently. And in order to get that result, they are holding hostages, which is a war crime. But Netanyahu doesn't want to get it, doesn't want to agree to that permanent ceasefire from the perspective of the Israeli public, primarily because he wants to stay in office. And that's generating, again, very, very deep anguish in Israeli society and anger at him.

Danielle Pletka In your column in Heretz at the end of June, you wrote that speculation is swirling that Prime Minister Netanyahu might go for a grand move to end the Gaza war. What kind of grand move do you think is possible at this point? Dr. Julie Kinn I mean Netanyahu has, youahu has lots of possibilities in terms of what he could do if he were to start with a real end to the war in Gaza. And from there, he could begin to, certainly it would cement his relationship with President Trump. They could then presumably both try to expand Israel's agreements of some sort.

I don't think, you know, it's a question about whether we're looking at full normalization agreements, but the idea that there is a possibility of some sort of agreement even in limited terms with both Syria and Lebanon, which are both being discussed quite, you know, quite openly. And in the longer term Netanyahu and, you know, and other American policymakers have, including under the Biden administration, of course, had done a lot of work to lay the groundwork for normalization with Saudi Arabia. Now, it is generally understood that none of that will happen, but particularly normalization

with Saudi Arabia can't happen until there is some sort of Israeli commitment to some sort of Palestinian state, however qualified, however incremental, and that would unlock a different kind of relationship between Israel and the Middle East, Israel and the US would all have a kind of some sort of broad set of agreements and cooperation in the Middle East. It would change the balance of power. Iran has been significantly weakened and it would help them preserve that situation. And that would also mean going a long way towards resolving not only Gaza if there's a ceasefire, but if there is some sort of progress towards a Palestinian state, what is generally called the two state solution in some form, then it could really de-escalate

the entire region. Now, I mean, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not the source of everything that's wrong with the Middle East, but it is a big mobilizing and escalating factor. It is a mobilizing factor for opponents of Israel and the Iranian access. It is an escalatory factor for Israelis and Palestinians. And right now, as far as we know Netanyahu will do everything possible not to give any inch or any quarter on Palestinian statehood, but that same, some version of Israel making concessions with relation to the Palestinians, starting from a ceasefire

in Gaza, moving towards a permanent ceasefire, moving towards Israel withdrawing from Gaza, and then eventually moving towards Palestinian self-determination could unlock those really fundamentally changed dynamics in the Middle East. I should also mention, when you asked about the public before, I want to go back for a minute because I was referring to the majority. Now remember, there's always a minority, and it's not a small minority, that supports the government and supports the resistance to ending the war and supports Israel maintaining what Israelis have, I think, misleadingly called security control over Gaza, a term

that has been repeated numerous times since the beginning and including already in conversation from officials around the visit, that Israel will have to maintain security control over Gaza. The prime minister even said it again in the last day. And that's something that probably has support from more than just the supporters of the government. But the general approach of refusing a permanent ceasefire, which is the government's perspective, I would say that has the support of the low 40% range. So it's a minority who pretty much supports this government's policies, including on Gaza, but it's not a small minority. And so we have to always take that into account, even as we have, you know, 75% in some surveys

who would prefer to end the war for a permanent ceasefire deal. To that point, what kind of shifts are you looking for at this point in Israeli public opinion over the next few weeks and months? I mean, there was talk of early elections shortly after the war ended with Iran. Interestingly, we don't hear that kind of talk anymore. It was mostly a matter of leaks and rumors. There was a high expectation among Israelis that Netanyahu was going to get a boost in public opinion, that people were going to say, wow, this was an incredible achievement. Israel fought the biggest enemy

in its long-term imagination. And Israel, with all the damage that was done, certainly came out victorious at the military level. And so there was a sense that Netanyahu was going to achieve great ratings in terms of favorability. And interestingly, none of that materialized. He got a very, very small rise in polls for his party. His personal ratings barely saw any gain. And as a result, I think that he, hopefully, will conclude that his fortunes when it comes to how the Israeli public sees him, are not going to change until there is a resolution of the issue in Gaza, first and foremost, from the Israeli perspective, to get the hostages back. But frankly, we also have surveys showing

that 62% of Israelis in a recent survey after the Iran war just want the war in Gaza to end even when the hostages weren't mentioned, which I think is a striking number. Dalia, thanks. Thank you for having me. Dalia Shinlin is a political analyst and author of the book,

The Crooked Timber of Democracy in Israel, Promise Unfulfilled. We reached her in Tel Aviv. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.