The Current - How DeMar DeRozan changed mental health in sports

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

DeMar DeRozan changed the conversation around mental health in basketball, starting with a single tweet about his own struggles with depression. In September, the former Toronto Raptor spoke to Matt Galloway about why he now sees vulnerability as a form of strength — and why he “couldn't stand” Kyle Lowry when they first met.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. With the ninth pick in the 2009 NBA draft, the Toronto Raptors select DeMar DeRozan from the University of Southern California. And with that, DeMar DeRozan started his journey into Canadian sports history drafted to the Toronto Raptors. He'd been dreaming of an NBA career since he was a kid growing up in his L.A. neighbourhood of Compton.

He'd spend hours poring over VHS tapes of the greats Michael Jordan and Dr. J to learn their secrets. As a Raptor, DeMar DeRozan's contributions on the basketball court were legendary. But he also sparked a conversation on the sidelines when he started talking about his own struggles with mental health. DeMar DeRozan has written about his journey in his memoir, Above the Noise, and Matt Galloway spoke with him in September. Here is that conversation. You go back to 2009. What was going through your mind

when you realized you'd been drafted by the Rafters? Oh, excitement. The dream come true. I just remember feeling, you know, like it was so surreal, you know, especially at that time. This was the place I definitely wanted to be. So to hear my name get drafted, you know, having my parents there, seeing the reaction, walking up there, putting that hat on, felt like a dream come true. Well, it was a dream come true.

It comes after a lot of hard work in a neighborhood that you grew up in where a lot of your friends went down different paths. What do you remember about growing up in Compton? A constant obstacle on a daily basis that felt so normalized. You know, growing up, no matter if it was a bad day or a worse day, every day felt normal. Basketball allowed me to see more, have aspirations for more things, and gave me an opportunity to see that it is more things that, you know, I can lean towards and have dreams of becoming. So for me, it was just a constant challenge.

You said that it was a neighborhood in the book. You say it's a neighborhood where death and destruction was normalized. For sure. It was definitely that. When you grow up and you really can't understand nothing else but what you've grown up in, you know, you watch movies and what you're growing up in. You know, you watch movies and you see people growing up in nice places. You feel like it's just a movie.

Like those places really didn't exist 20, 30 minutes from where you was living. So being trapped in that type of emotion, mental state, you know, you kind of look at everything like it's normal. What did basketball give you? Basketball was the only thing I could comprehend, and basketball was the only thing to allow me to embrace my imagination. Being able to recreate moments you see from your favorite players growing up. I just always remember having a make-believe court in the house, doing fadeaway jump shots with my tongue out, trying to beat be jordan trying to grow my a mini afro like

kobe when i was young um it gave you a belief when you watch sports and when you play sports to really see that imagination could come true tell me about watching those videotapes with your dad i mean this is before streaming this is before you could dial up uh the highlights online and you get the old cassettes sitting there on the television, watching them on the television. Tell me about watching those. Yeah, it was such a beautiful thing when I look back on it because I just remember how grainy the TV was. You couldn't even see the player face. But watching so many games in black and white, I remember times where they didn't even show the score on the TV. You just watching them go up and down, down the court.

And I used to just watch basketball so much because one, it gave me a moment with my dad. And two, unknowingly, it gave me a deeper appreciation and love for the game of basketball. Tell me about the relationship that you had with your dad. Man, my dad was, you know, my dad was my everything. He was everything I wanted to strive to be. I wanted his acceptance. I wanted to make him proud. He pushed me.

He taught me a lot of things. He showed me tough love. But it all made sense as I got older, you know, to be able to have a supporting father. He was there for every moment of my life. That meant a lot, especially now how I am with my kids. You say that you knew he loved you, but he was also the only person that you were scared of. Yes. He was the only person I was terrified of. Terrified? Yeah. I remember if I woke up late and I hear him walking up the stairs or if he yelled my name, it was like a panic of me jumping out the bed.

Because like I said, you know, he was tough on me, but he was tough on me for all the right reasons. But being young, you know, I didn't look at it that way. I always looked at it like, man, what I do now, what I got to do. But he was just teaching me a lot of life lessons that I carry to this day. He really believed that you were going to make it too. Yeah. Like he kind of knew in his mind that you were going to make day. He really believed that you were going to make it too. Yeah. He kind of knew in his mind that you were going to make it. I think he had the utmost belief in me more, more than anything, anybody before I even knew I was even good in basketball, you know,

and I don't even think it was more so for basketball. I think as just a person, you know, he, he seen something in me that I could have, and he didn't let me shortchange it or make excuses or complain about much of anything. He pushed me because he knew I was going to be something. You have a tattoo. It's on your right forearm, is that right? Mm-hmm. And it says, why would they care about you? Yeah.

This is a tattoo that you see it every time you're taking a shot. Yeah. Yeah, it was one of those things. Growing up, it was something that I always heard so often. Like, why would they care about you? You know, they don't love you. They don't make sure you get up in the morning. They don't push you.

They don't give their best effort to make you be the best you could be. This is what your dad was telling you? Yeah. And that was one thing that always was instilled in my mind. Like, you can't expect everybody to care. You got to lean towards the ones, your family, the ones that really care for you, that want the best for you. Because everybody's not going to care. Everybody look at you like you don't matter. You know, you got to do what you need to do for who you need to do it for family wise and for yourself. So that was one thing that definitely pushed me. You used to go on these trips with him back to, he was from Vidalia, Louisiana. Yep, yep.

And you would go on these road trips to a different, like a completely different world. You'd see the stars, you'd see all sorts of, but you would stop sometimes and you'd look up at the sky and he would show you the moon. Yeah. What was it about the moon? It meant so many things because it symbolized that it was more to the world than just you.

You know, growing up in Compton, a lot of times you feel like you're so alone. Whatever you're going through, it's only you. And I just remember the first time we used to drive from, you know, Compton, California, all the way to Louisiana. It was like a two-day, three-day road trip. But I just always remember when we got outside of the city, you could see the stars and the moon clear, obviously because so much smog in the city, everything. And it kind of just like, it blew my mind because it made me realize there's so much more to the world

than what I thought I was living in. I felt like I was living in such a bubble whenever things was going extremely bad. And, you know, the moon and the sky kind of just symbolized that it was so much more to the world than what my problems I may be having in that moment. So we played that little bit at the beginning of you getting drafted. And this is part of it. I mean, realizing there's a much bigger world. You come to Canada for the first time.

You land in Toronto. What was your impression of this country? Oh, man, it was very overwhelming in a lot of ways. You know, I just remember being confused, trying to get through the airport. I remember seeing the freeway signs, half of it in French, half of it in English. You asked yourself, like, what have I gotten myself into? Yeah, it was so much because I was by myself. I'm 19 years old.

I'm a kid. I'm never going through customs. I'm filling out the customs card, trying to figure out what side was English or French, making sure I'm doing the right thing. But it was something that was very needed and essential for my growth as a man, as a professional, because it kind of grounded me and helped me kind of like start over in a sense

and kind of just take one step at a time once I got here, and it was everything that I needed. Why do you think you connected with this city? I felt the connection before I even drafted with the city. I think that's why I was so happy and I was so eager to even get drafted by Toronto because even beforehand, I just felt the need like they wanted me here. And when I got drafted, the way they embraced me made it easy for me to embrace it back. And I grew here.

Like I said, it was my first time leaving home. So to come to Canada, come to Toronto for the first time, the city still was developing so much. Even now when I come here now, I remember when it wasn't buildings here. I remember, you know, the skyline wasn't how it is now. So for me, I kind of grew with the city. You know, I grew with the sport evolution of the city as well. So being a part of that, I think it was a much more deeper emotional connection.

It's just interesting because you would well know a lot of players come here, and the first thing that they want to do is get out. People don't want to stay here. They don't want to be here. It's a different country. You can't get ESPNn the things people are used to um and you all you wanted to do was be here yeah and i think i used to hear that so much from players that came uh i remember a lot of guys used to come on the team and all they did was

complain and to me i used to be confused like what did you complain about granted this was the only place i knew at the time so to me i was just to be here. But that more so made me want to push and change the narrative of wanting to play here and be here. And I took that to heart. You created something here in Toronto, and you created it alongside a lot of players. But Kyle Lowry was somebody who you worked so well with. When he came here, what was your first impression of him? I couldn't stand him when he first came here. I don't know if I can use the language that you use in the book, but the way that you describe

him is not at all flattering. Yeah, I couldn't stand him at all. And it's so crazy. Even before I walked in here, I was on FaceTime with him for about 15, 20 minutes before we walked in here. But when he first came to the team, we were so much of opposites and personalities that I just didn't see it fitting well. But after time went on, my first season here, I seen how he worked. I seen how he cared about his craft. I seen how he also stayed to himself. But I also seen how he laid it all out there on the line

when it was time to go play. And that was something that was so appealing to me. It kind of brought us even closer in a moment to where I never would have realized it because this work ethic and his care he had for the game ran so deep. And I just wanted to be a part of that. And ever since then, you know, that's been my best friend. What did you learn from him as a man? One, how to be an ultimate professional.

You know, one thing about Cal, he used to come in two, three hours before practice, do his whole workout, shower, and a lot of times he'd be laying in a locker room before practice even started, in practice, and leave it all out there. Once practice was over, he'd go about his day, go tend to his family. He was so on point with everything. And I took a lot of that from him, just being on point when it came to putting your work in. I want to jump ahead to 2018, NBA All-Star Game. It's in Los Angeles.

How would you describe your state of mind around that time? It was so much all over the place you know because at that time my career was at its height yeah we was winning so much was going on on the court in a positive way in an overwhelming way as well and it was a lot a lot coming with that off the court as well and I think making it to all-star weekend that week, I kind of felt like I was just hitting a wall because I didn't care about nothing else other than just wanting to get home and hang with my kids. You wanted to be normal.

That's all I wanted. I just wanted to walk in there and be completely normal, at least for a day with my kids, you know, and to get home and it be the complete opposite, even worse, of how I was feeling the week prior, you know, it kind of, it just kind of made me hit a wall, you know, it led me to,

in the middle of the night, tweet out a tweet. The tweet got a lot of attention and the tweet came from something that you read and saw from Jim Carrey, the comedian. What did you learn from Jim Carrey? Man, Jim Carrey, Jim and Carrey and Robin Williams was two guys that I listened to them speak.

I listened to them talk about a lot of things from a mental standpoint, from a life standpoint. And these are guys that we grew up idolizing as comedians that made everybody laugh. But you also see the pain that they carried with that. They were as successful as you could possibly get in their fields. You know, and it always used to make me wonder why, why are they saying these things? These one of the funniest guys I've ever watched on TV, but to see Jim Carrey put a lot of stuff

in perspective and human lives and show so much empathy towards humans, it was something that stuck with me. And I remember him even expressing the fact of he wished everybody was rich so everybody could see money as in everything. And that kind of hit home because, you know, people always say, oh, you got money, you don't have nothing to worry about. But it don't work that way. say, oh, you got money. You don't have nothing to worry about. But it don't work that way. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs.

We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. So you put out this tweet. The tweet is, this depression get the best of me.

Why did you, you could have written it, but not sent it. You could have put it in the draft. Why did you, you could have written it, but not sent it. You could have put it in the draft. Why did you push tweet? In that moment, I was so isolated. I was in my own solitude and my emotions was at an all-time high and, you know, I didn't have nobody to talk to. And it was something I wrote. And literally, when I wrote it, I put my phone down. What did you think was going to happen?

I didn't think anything, you know. You must have thought something would wrote. And literally when I wrote it, I put my phone down. What did you think was going to happen? I didn't think anything, you know. You must have thought something would happen. Literally, I didn't think anything because I wouldn't have woke up in a panic, in a shock that I did, wondering why I had so many missed calls or text messages. I really didn't know. I just, I sent it and I went to sleep, woke up, you know, ready for the next day until I seen, you know, the concern. People asking me in detail, what did I mean by that tweet? And it kind of took me back to that moment. Like, oh man, I tweeted this when I was feeling this way. Even though I woke up and I wasn't feeling like the way I felt middle of the morning, things came with that tweet. Were you surprised that the things came with that tweet. Were you surprised that the things came with that tweet?

I mean, the response to it, I remember seeing it because you put it out at three o'clock in the morning. Yeah. I remember seeing it and people were like, this is what he's saying. This is him saying it. They wanted to make sure that it was you. People wanted to make sure you're okay. But they also knew that this would lead to a conversation.

Did you know that that was going to happen? No. I didn't know it would lead into all this, to this present day. You know, I didn't know, but it was something that was obviously needed, not just for myself, but for, you know, the world in a sense, you know, to show that we go through things as athletes, you know. And I think after I took a second that following day, it just opened me up and made me realize like, man, yeah, this is how I feel.

This is what I'm going through. And it just opened a conversation from there. Let me play something for you. This is Fred VanVleet, former Raptors teammate, talking about what this tweet accomplished. Have a listen. He changed a billion-dollar business. He changed it, you know, pretty much single-handedly speaking out.

And then obviously a lot of guys felt more comfortable, and that's what it's about. So for him to do that, it was huge, and we won't know the impact. We'll never know the impact, but we just know that it's a great impact that he had on the league and on the guys and on players, coaches, staff, whoever, that this is DeMar DeRoz the guys and on players, coaches, staff, whoever, that this is DeMar DeRozan and he goes through shit like everybody else. In the book, I mean, this is true.

You say that men, especially black men, don't want to talk about this and aren't encouraged to talk about this. In fact, the opposite is encouraged. You bottle it up. You don't say that depression is around. You don't say that you're not perfect, especially if you're successful and you're making money. Why do you think people are afraid of that? Why are people afraid of vulnerability? We live in such an opinion-based world, and a lot of times people don't want to share things because of getting poked at, made fun of, looking down upon, feeling looked at as being weak.

It's not enough empathy being shown to allow people to be free to speak out on a lot of things that they're going through because they don't want to feel shameful. They don't want to feel worse. And I think when you see someone in a higher position know, pain that they may go through, it's easier to deal with because if I was worried about what everybody else may think or may say, I would have never said anything. You know, I wouldn't continue to say anything. I wouldn't continue to put my life, you know, out there even to this day with me still going through so much and still trying to figure out in the process. But it comes with trying to normalize those things so we can be able to talk out more

because I know I find inspiration in other people's story and figure out ways how I can be better and I can help the next person. What have you heard? I mean, Freddie says that you changed a billion dollar game, but you know that people look up to you and you'd hear from fans. So what have you heard that lets you know that you did the right thing? I hear so many. It's so baffling to me because whether if it's players or it's coaches,

I just start with a couple coaches I done had over the years that after practice, we sit and have in-depth conversations about how, you know, me speaking out made them feel seen or gave them more confidence to speak up or, you know, they feel empowered in a sense of knowing that, look, I'm going through this as well and can express it to help a younger person out. And when I hear those things, it means a lot to me because it lets you know that it worked. It worked. And there's been so many people outside the court that come up to me and say how much I helped their kid or, you know, someone 20, 30 years older than me telling me I helped them with something mentally. That means the world to me.

That's really powerful. Yeah. I never would have imagined that, you know, I'd be able to do something like that following a tweet that I made. I mean, you do great stuff on the basketball court, but you also wonder whether that legacy will almost equal that. Do you know what I mean? Changing a conversation is a big thing. Yeah, and I didn't realize how big it was until I did it. So it put me in a place, even in this moment, of still learning and still trying to grow and better myself and be a better father, a better person, a better leader, whatever it may be. And just seeing that it's a constant journey that we all got to kind

of go through. And that would lead me to even do a book. So you wanted to be here. You wanted to be in Toronto playing for the Raptors for the rest of your career or at least for as long as you possibly could you get this phone call from asai ujiri uh first you're in a movie and so you kind of you know text him back whatever like that then you get this phone call um from your perspective what do you remember about that call um i just remember being in shock when it happened you know I just remember being there, being stuck when I heard the words. The words, we've traded you. Yeah. Once I heard the words, we traded you, it was like nothing else mattered.

I was just kind of blanked out. It was a weird feeling that I never felt again to this day. In the book, you use the words betrayed and blindsided like a bunch of times. Yeah. Why blindsided I could see, but why betrayed? You know, and that's just me speaking from my perspective because, you know, I just felt like, you know, I was going to be here. You know, I felt like I wasn't going to go nowhere, and that was my feelings at the time.

It's just crazy how the world worked because whenever I see Masai now, I give him a big hug, nothing but love and appreciation for everything he done for me in my career. But are you still angry with the fact that that even went down? No, no, I'm not mad at all how it went down. You know, looking back on it, of course, in that moment, you know, you feel hurt. You feel all these things because, like I always say, you know, it's where I wanted to be.

It's where I put everything into it, where I became, you know, I was 19 years old. You know, I grew up, I grew up here, wanting to be here. And like I said, I had, I carry so much weight of wanting to change the narrative of being here that, you know, it hit different when, when it happened, you know, I'm sitting here with you today. Do I feel angry or mad? Not at all. Like, you know, I've, I've, I've passed that I've grown from it. And, you know, like I said, like, I'm always thankful for the opportunity of my nine years here will forever be instrumental. Nothing will ever top, you know, my nine years here. I think it's interesting. I mean, one of the things you did was you looked how to Google how to disappear and you go out into the desert and look back up at the moon. Yeah.

That you used to look at with your dad yeah you just you know it take you right back to you know those elements of chasing the calm that you you was kind of searching for in a sense and you know that was one thing that kind of you know grounded me to get away from so much of the noise that was going on whether it was some social media tv friends family, your phone, it kind of just puts you in that place of just being calm all over again. What do you still get from playing basketball? The same thing I got when I was a kid.

Really? Yeah. Even this far into your career? Yeah. The excitement, the enjoyment, the competitive drive, the push. I still get the same feeling. You know, and that's a beautiful thing because I just remember being a kid just always going to the park and wanting to play all day long. You know, still having that same feeling.

You know, that's why I play, you know, back home in a Drew League all summer. I play as much as I can because, you know, I love the game. What do you do to take care of yourself, aside from the physical? Knowing what you know now, what do you do to take care of yourself? You know, I just, it's a consistent thing of finding ways to, you know, stay grounded. You know, it's tough. You know, it's not easy. You know, I tell people all the time, it's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. You know, it's tough. You know, it's not easy. You know, I tell people all the time, it's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. You know, it's things I tried and I have expectations of it changing right then, right there.

But sometimes it don't work that way. I think for me, it's just a consistent journey of me trying to figure out what works. You know, sometimes nature works for me. You know, I do that. out what works. Sometimes nature works for me. I do that. Sometimes if I can't be in nature, sometimes I take a moment to myself and try to indulge in something positive, something uplifting. Some days I may just take a nap and kind of just put my phones down, turn TV, and just kind of decompress from everything. So it's multiple things that I consistently try to do. But it feels like you're stronger now, like mentally, because of everything that you went through that way.

For sure. I'm definitely stronger. And, you know, a lot of even more ways of getting tested come with, you know, being stronger, you know, that you got to battle with. And, you know, I think I'm at that place now where I'm still, you know, still battling with a lot of things, but I'm up for the challenge more so than before. What's it like being back in Toronto now, launching this book? Man, it's amazing. You know, this is where it all started for me. Like I said, nothing will ever top my time here because it was my first, you know, it was my first, you know, everything, you know, ups, downs, smiles, frowns, cries. It all started here.

So to be able to do something I never thought I'd be doing in my life, to come back here and do it is definitely cool. Now people are watching you in part because this summer you popped up in Kendrick Lamar's video, the song of the summer, Not Like Us. And suddenly you appear in this video when this is like, I mean this is the last nail in that beef that he had with Drake. Suddenly there's DeMar DeRozan. What were you doing in that?

Kendrick been a friend, family to me for a long time, you know, for a long time. And it was one of those things. I don't think I necessarily approached it thinking it was a, you know, beef type of thing. I more so approached it like, you know, somebody that was close to me asked me to come and, you know, I supported him, you know. Do you worry you might get some boos when you come back next time? I mean, yeah, yeah. Sacrifices comes in place here.

Yeah, you always got to expect that. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I'm from Compton. I'm from Compton, California, and Kendrick's in place here. Yeah, you always got to expect that. But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm from Compton. I'm from Compton, California, and Kendrick's from Compton. And, you know, like I said, that was somebody that was close to me, that was instrumental to me. You know, probably caught a lot of people off guard because that's a relationship for years that, you know, I never, you know, publicized or anything like that. But, yeah, that was more so of, you know, that's my man.

He asked me for a favor and, you know, representing Compton. I was going to say, it feels like you representing home. Yeah, that's what it was for me, you know, looking at it like, you know, I'm from Compton, California. He's from Compton, California. So only a handful of us to make it out. And for him to be one of the great ones to do what he's doing, I have to represent for the city.

No one's going to boo you here. People love you. A lot of love for you in Toronto. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for being here. The book is really interesting, but your story and the work that you've done on yourself is fascinating.

And it has changed the conversation and changed the game. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Damar DeRozan is a six-time NBA all-star now playing for the Sacramento Kings. He started his NBA career with close to a decade with the Toronto Raptors. His book is called Above the Noise, My Story of Chasing Calm. Matt Galloway spoke with him in September.