The Current - How teenagers can start to manage their money

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Managing money is always challenging, and it’s even trickier when you’re a teenager. In her new book Making Bank, Money Skills for Real Life, certified financial planner Shannon Lee Simmons offers advice for teens: from budgeting and saving for things you enjoy, to dealing with the constant wave of influencers trying to sell them something.

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. You know, next to talking to your teenagers about sex, money might be right up there as a subject that you would shy away from. Some kids learn about money in school, like these grade nine students in Winston Churchill Collegiate in Scarborough, Ontario. They're headed back into their math and finance class. Oh my God, I can't save money because I just buy random stuff. If I have money, I just have to spend it on something.

I'm very good with money. I don't usually spend that much money unless it's really needed. I can't save money. That's the problem. Clothes, foods, shoes, everything. Now it's like kind of too much, I'll lie. I'm not that type of person to go out and buy things from social media unless it looks comfortable you know.

It just doesn't interest me that much honestly. I'm always spending a lot of video games and stuff like useless garbage. I love money. I don't really like want to spend that much unless I really need to. Savers and spenders, splurgers and budgeters. Shannon Lee Simmons knows all about the ways that people handle their money. She is a certified financial planner. She works mostly with adults but has now jumped into the world of teens with her new book, Making Bank Money Skills for Real Life. Shannon Lee Stemmings is with me in studio and you were laughing as you listened to that.

I love that. I have been working with the teens on this book for a couple of years and just, it warms my heart. I had so much fun. And when I hear the teens talking about money, it just reminds me of all that research that I did. Why did you want, I mean, me of all that research that I did. Why did you want, I mean, I've known you for a little while. Yeah. As somebody who talks about money.

Yes. And how we broadly deal with or don't deal with our money. Why did you want to write a book for younger people? Yeah, it started out organically and then grew into something bigger. You know, in my regular day-to-day business, I work with adults and a lot of the adults I was working with were telling me, we're having conflicts at home with our teen, I'm worried about my teenager, they don't seem to understand money, we're fighting about it, they just got their first job, can you sit down and have a budgeting session? So, it started off with me just sort of sitting down on an ad hoc basis with family members of some of my clients

and I quickly realized after working with several teenagers that they are up against something that I don't know that we've put words to. Their cohort is extremely unique in the financial challenges that they have, in what's happening in the world around them and the tools that they have. And I was like, there is so much to dig in here. And that's when I pitched a book. Did you think there was an audience for a book about teens and money? I do now, but I didn't know.

You do now because it's a best seller. Yes, but at the time a few years ago, I didn't know for sure. But what was really interesting to me when I was talking to the teenagers that I was chatting with is that I realized they have opinions about money in a way that I certainly did not at the same age. So because of social media influencers, just like general information and the way it travels nowadays, I was talking about day trading with a 14 year old.

And I can't say the same for when I was a teenager as well. So I think that I knew that they're interested or at least some of them are interested. And I think now because of how nervous parents are, the financial climate that we find ourselves in, I think that the book is the right place at the right time right now. And it might not have even worked 10 years ago, but it's working now. Go back to the environment that teens are marinating in right now. What sort of pressure

are they under when it comes to money? I mean, we heard those kids talk about I like money, I don't like money, I like spending money, those kids talk about, I like money, I don't like money. I like spending money, all the things I have to spend money on. I mean, what, what is the stew that kids are in right now? Yeah, I mean, they're just young adults, right? And they have the same problem as us, just on a different scale. And so the, what really struck me and what I think is important about this is number one, this is a whole cohort of teens who have never actually seen money in a

physical way in the same way that generations previously. Does that matter? I think it does. I think that there's no establishment of a relationship with money that's in the physical world. So everything is your neocortex. Everything is your logical brain. It's a gamification of it in a way that when I was younger, I would go on Fridays to the

bank that my parents had a bank book. They would take money out. I would see them give it to the pizza person, so you literally saw the transaction happen. Now this is a cohort that's literally seen tapping technology since birth. So what does that do to their relationship with money? I think it skews it, I think it makes it cerebral, I think it makes it less in their body, so you can part ways with it in a way that feels less scary. You can, you, when you have it, it doesn't feel like you've earned it. And when you get rid of it, it doesn't feel like

you've spent it because you're not actually touching it ever from a young, young age. And it makes budgeting really hard. I mean, I see that with my adult clients all the time and now imagine a teenage brain with something being so cerebral and feels so far away. So I think that's, that really struck me about it. The other thing is this, as you say, like the social media, again, in previous generations, you

would get your financial information from maybe a teacher or a parent or a grandparent or someone in your community. Or you wouldn't get it at all. Or you wouldn't get it at all, exactly. And now I've really found with the teens that I was working with, when they choose a financial influencer that they would like to work with, they feel an intimate bond with that, like it's their choice. It's an empowered decision. So they trust that resource more than the information that they're getting maybe in the classroom now or from the other sense. So I think that's interesting too, because

who they're listening to matters. Can I ask you a dumb question, which is what is a financial influencer? I mean, you said finfluencer. Oh yeah. And I thought you were just saying influencer with a bit of an F. What is a Finfluencer? A financial influencer. So, I am not against financial influencers totally. There are lots of content creators, and I would call them financial educators who create content online. I think that that is who we all hope is teaching our children or if they're following someone that is a content creator who's talking about financial education online,

I'm all for it. There are some really great resources out there. And there are also what I would consider a quote fin influencer in the way that everyone is worried about someone who is maybe pumping up sponsored content, really hijacking that make money fast, high risk tolerance, go, go, go, sort of attitude that's leading to like yoloing on stocks and stock memes and get rich quick schemes and this kind of thing. So I think as a parent, if your teen is following along with somebody who's talking about finances online, follow along with them and then have conversations about it because some of it's excellent and some of it is not. Your book is filled with very practical kind of steps that people need to think

about when it comes to how kids could interact with money. One of them is about a bank account. Have a listen to two grade 9 students. They have different experiences. The first doesn't have a bank account because his parents are worried about it. I feel like they just don't trust me for now. Like with having a bank account, because I'm still young, but I would want them to let me have a bank account. So I could start learning how to save at a younger age.

Learn to save for the future. University for example, or even retirement. I'm more of a saver. My mom and dad told me that I should have a bank account to save my money and like for student like things I would need for school like when I go to university for that money and see how I can spend and save my money together. When do you think kids should get a bank account? You talk about this in the book in terms of kids saving the story of somebody who doesn't want to end up in any debt at all, and this is they want to go to school and they want to save what, $70,000 or something like that. When should kids start to think about this sort of stuff?

Kirsten I mean, every kid is different. It depends. I think what's important is to practice the habit of savings. And so as parents, we can harness whatever your kid is motivated in. So if your kid is motivated to save for school, like some kids have a long lens, they're hyped about saving for the long-term summer, like, no, I don't want to save for that. So then use the sneakers that they want to save for as the motivation, whatever. So they can start whenever. I think 10 and up is when you can really have good conversations about it. I think bank accounts are a good idea once they start having regular money.

So that's an allowance that's consistent, that's a part-time job, that's gig economy work from babysitting. I think a bank account is important because what struck me as well with this demographic, the stakes for getting in trouble at the age of 18 from the palm of your hand, you can day trade, you can gamble,

and you can buy something with the click of a button. These are all things that you can do from your phone. From your phone at 18. So those risks were always there for us when we turned 18. You got to hand in a credit card during Frosh week, whatever. But now the capacity for trouble is exponentially more. So we need these teens practicing the habit of saving. It doesn't matter what they're saving for and the habit of putting that money aside

and then living within what's left over and making choices so that when they turn 18 and they have all that power, they're ready to go. Living within what's leftover is also known as budgeting. Have a listen to this. Like I travel a lot, so like we need money for that too. So like now that I'm learning about budgeting and all that, I feel like I need to ask my parents how they like budget our vacations as well. That's a question that just caught up in my mind. What is it like to watch teens become aware of the concept of budgeting? That the money that comes in is not,

doesn't necessarily need to be all the money that goes out if you can make that work. It was so fulfilling to watch that happen. So putting the idea of budgeting and how to make choices within what's left over in a digital world is really, really hard to do. And so they have to learn how to budget with tap technology on a teenage brain.

This is very difficult to do. What do you tell them about how to do this? Back to basics in the sense of get your savings out of there, like I had a lot of them fake payroll deductions, you know, like from their parents allowance and stuff, like get it out of your spending account, get it away from you, pretend like it's not even yours,

so that you sort of know what's your limit spend within it. And then within that budget, who cares what you're spending it on? I don't care if it's Sephora, I don't care if it's Starbucks, I don't care if it's sneakers, whatever. It's the same advice I would give adult clients. Once you have access to it, it feels like fair game.

And so getting it out of there right away is very important. And then also being mindful and doing that sort of act of, well, that didn't work out what went wrong and troubleshooting it. And instead of feeling like a failure, really introducing the concept of budgeting like this is a dynamic situation that's going to change month to month for you because they're gig economy workers. And so you need the skill to be able to pivot this month to month and then not feel so much

shame if it doesn't work out, just like an adult. If it doesn't work out, what happened? Let's troubleshoot, let's try again, we'll do something else different. And that relationship with money from a young age, I'm hopeful, was really impactful for the kids that I worked with because I had a lot of parents say, I can feel myself handing down my financial trauma

to my kids or my own financial relationship to them. And so imagine a bunch of kids who are really confident talking about money, know how to pivot it, know how to use it like a tool. I mean, it is very rewarding. What is unhappy spending? My favorite, I mean, I've been talking about this since worry-free money back in the day, 2017. It is what I used for grownups and I'm using it now for the teens. It is the idea of mindfully choosing where your spending money goes so that you get the most joy out of it. I talk about it as an emotional return on investment versus a sort of financial return on investment. So once you siphon off those savings, I had the teens and I would say anyone who's listening,

you can do this yourself as well. Look at, okay, where does your money actually go? And then rate it out of five. Five out of five is like, I love that, I would never wanna get rid of it. A one out of five is like, I had to spend that and I really regret it or I don't even remember it. And it was shocking. Some kids going to Starbucks with their friends

is a five out of five. It's like the social thing that they do to get independence together. So to cut that. So we adults might say, you're spending all this money on, how could you possibly, but for them... It's so important. It's really important.

It's a social fabric. And so they hear their parents saying, don't waste your money. That's so silly. Why are you doing that? And so that's introducing that idea of shameful spending, that kind of thing. So hopefully this is giving them the language to be like, no, no, I'm going to cut this and this. I don't actually need that cookie at the cafeteria.

I don't actually need this over here. I don't need to buy the cheap thing I spent money at the mall because I was killing time. I'm going to save the money. I do have to spend it on the things that now I'm really mindful give me joy. So that's, you know, this, this and this. Great. And so that's a mindful choice and it's teaching that decision-making process. But in a way that gives permission to enjoy the spending money so that you don't resent

the savings that are not in your spending account. That's the whole point. It was over 30 years ago that Clifford Olson first called me. Secret phone calls from Canada's most notorious serial killer. I knew I was killing the children, but I couldn't stop myself. Now it's time to unearth the tapes. Because I believe there are still answers to be found. I'm Arlene Bynum from CBC's Uncover,

Calls from a Killer, available now. There are a lot of kids that we spoke with who have real worries about money. It's that kind of gut churning sense about what money means to them and how it will help define their lives. Have a listen to this. If we go broke or something, how do we get back? I'm just kind of scared that that might happen

in the future. What if I go in debt and I can't pay off my loans or something like that? I'm pretty nervous about it, yeah. How do you talk to kids about that? I mean, the fear that they could end up behind the eight ball. There's a lot of them that are worried for sure. They know a lot.

This demographic is plugged in. They know about the economy. They hear it. They know it. And so one of the things that I consistently showed some of the teens and talked to them about was that the fear around going to them about was that, you know, the fear around going to post-secondary and whether or not it's going to be worth

the loans. And I heard constantly, well, if I go into student debt, you know, it might be five years till I get a job and I'll have to live at home. Like this is table stakes for many of them. Really explaining that idea of sort of your biggest asset is your future income and showing them like the possibility of that and how, you know, if you wanna look at school as an investment in your future income and thinking about it like that. And that was really eye-opening for a lot of them.

Wow, even if I earn a modest income, that's millions of dollars over my lifetime. Like, wow, that's exciting. Like that makes me less afraid to go to school necessarily. But the idea of going broke, which is a bit different, right? So that's the school piece. The idea of going broke, I would also loop in there the idea of, well, why bother? Because climate change, I heard that a lot too. That's more about the, why should I try? I'm just going to live right now, like a YOLO sort of attitude. And what I mean by that is you only live once,

I'm not going to do the normal thing, I'm just going to do what I want. And I think that that really is an underlying current within a lot of the youth is that the long-term doesn't really matter. So it's really about the short run. So what I would suggest there is kind of acknowledging with them that like, I understand how scary it is. And part of this is to practice the habits that you need. So it's less scary down the road. And then you can make it exciting for them like, fine, you don't want to save for long term. You want to save for school that feels far away and pointless Why don't we save up for something that you do want because again the point is To teach them to practice the habit of savings and so whatever motivates them is good by me I don't care what they're saving for just like as long as they're doing it

Because once you develop that habit and it becomes sort of second nature, the confidence piece moves up and then your anxiety goes down. And that's just a natural sort of impact of having savings. You look at it, you feel cozy, you feel comfortable, and it doesn't really matter the dollar amount. It's about the fact that you feel more in control. And so if we can just get kids practicing the habit, I think their anxiety might go down as well. And just be there for them.

They are scared of the future. A lot of them are really nervous about the future in a way that I feel very blessed when I was a teenager. I was like, everything's gonna be great. And I had no idea. There are also kids who are learning to be savvy with money. Saras is 18 years old from Edmonton and president of the financial club

at the old SCONA academic high school. The most difficult part that I've seen is actually understanding what the different avenues and opportunities are once you make income. Should I be investing in crypto? Should I be saving money? Should I be buying this stock or this piece of clothes dependent on my income?

And so I think the goal of our club is to kind of bridge that gap buying this stock or this piece of clothes dependent on my income. And so I think the goal of our club is to kind of bridge that gap and provide a lot of financial literacy skills to students who never really dealt with money in the first place. So what would you advise? Yeah, you'll notice they say basic things like

should I buy this sweater and then also should I invest in crypto in the same sentence. That is so accurate. It's about the literacy piece. It's breaking it down to, okay, what is the first line of defense? In the book, it's broken into those five habits and the first one is just like, what do you even make? And when I would say to them, okay, well, what's your income? What do you make? I don't know. Okay, well, let's start there. So really teaching like, okay, when you're in the gig economy or you don't know exactly how many shifts you're gonna get,

or how many babysitting gigs, how do you even know if you can afford something? So figuring that out first, and then really setting the difference between the goals, which is what is actually a savings goal, and what is just glorified spending money, and what is actually growing your money later on, and really breaking it down between those habits

like crypto, investing, all of that stuff is crypto, investing, all of that stuff is about compound interest, all of that stuff is about growing your money. It's not about saving it and it's not about spending it and it's not about earning it either. So I feel like the habits, the way that the book walks through them tries to address exactly that bridging the gap in a realistic way using examples that make sense to this demographic that they can use tomorrow, like literally with their friends tomorrow at the mall.

Were you always really good with money? Yes and no. I was definitely the kid that was trying to like scale the lemonade stand in the neighborhood, like very, I'm a Capricorn, very intense. So I always had a knack for it. I grew up in a family business where money was talked about for better or worse at all times, and we rode a roller coaster financially. And so I think that that was helpful because in a weird way, nothing was a secret.

And number two, some years we were up and you felt it, and some years you were down and you felt it. And then I would watch my parents sort of rebuild. And so for me, my relationship with money growing up was that sometimes you have it and sometimes you don't. It doesn't define you and that there's a solution, right? Like there's a solution to make it happen. And I think that was very helpful for me. I also think it's why I'm fascinated by the emotional impacts of money because that's what keeps

it interesting for me. I've been doing this for 20 years now and no person is the same. You see anecdotal trends, but everybody's different and money is how we do our hopes and dreams. Did you ever get in trouble with money? Yeah, I did. I did. Yes, of course. I'm a human.

A couple of times. So later in university, I had student debt like anybody else. Blew a lot of my student loan to go to Japan on a trip and then was like, well, that's a lot of money that I don't have a job for now and all that. And number two, I think we've even talked about this years ago, I did the Barter Babes Project, which is where I quit my Bay Street job

to barter my financial advice in exchange for goods and services, which doesn't pay the rent. And I ended up having to take money out of my RSP at that moment, I went into credit card debt. It was a real financial fiasco, though with the long lens of time, what a great launching pad. But in the moment, it was terrifying, right? I couldn't get that perspective at the time.

It was really scary. What did you learn from that? People make mistakes, right? Yes. Every single person makes mistakes with money. It's going to happen. It's going to happen frequently in your life. Money is a tool.

It's annoying. It's in the way. And we live in a world where you have to have it's going to happen. It's going to happen frequently in your life. Money is a tool, it's annoying, it's in the way, and we live in a world where you have to have it to do certain things. So we're constantly forced to make financial decisions, whether we like it or not, and whether we have it or not. And so you're gonna mess up, your kids are gonna mess up, and the best thing you can do is have an honest, open conversation with them and help them sort of navigate

this in the same way that you would help them navigate getting their first job or learning how to deal with social media. Those are the same kinds of navigation skills that we can all help with. Those are tough conversations if you're talking about social media or sex or money. How do you have that in a family in a way that it doesn't explode? There are scenes in the book in which it feels as though things could get explosive. Parents are upset. Kids feel hard done by. People are trying, because it's money.

It's real. And that's what's happening on the home front for a lot of families. So I think number one, I make the joke in the book, I'll say it here too, like I'm always like, is everyone hydrated and well fed? So like, springing these kinds of money conversations on your team when they're after school and exhausted, like not ideal, you know, put a family meeting into the calendar and like make sure everyone's their best self that day. I think using a third party to show that you're acknowledging that it's not a right or wrong with money talks, it doesn't matter if you're

talking to your partner about it, your colleague about it, or your kid, always remember that nobody's right and nobody's wrong. Even if you think that someone has done something absolutely ridiculous that you would never do, they probably have their reasons, it's probably different, like there's probably something going on there. So, coming to that conversation with empathy and vulnerability and assuming, okay, you think you're right for a reason, I think I'm right for a reason, and we both think each other's wrong, what are those reasons and what's the way forward? Do you really believe just finally that money doesn't define us? We live in a society where, I mean, if you're talking about what kids

are getting on social media, they're not seeing people who aren't throwing money around, who they're trying to idolize. Those are the people that they wanna be. But it's not just young people. We all live in a society where those who, for better or worse, those who are more successful are venerated and those who aren't are. Do you really believe that money doesn't define us? I believe that money does not define us, but I do believe that money defines our confidence. So if you are a person, it doesn't matter about the dollar amount necessarily within reason.

Obviously, we're talking about financial security is met, right? We have our security needs met. But if we're talking about the difference between met, right? We have our security needs met. But if we're talking about the difference between someone who can go on 10 vacations a year or one vacation or no vacations, a lot of the resentment and the happiness that that person might feel comes down to perspective, comes down to personal confidence, comes down to self-worth, comes down to a lot of other things in their life. So what's making that person happy? And so I know it sounds trite, but I have seen it for 20 years on the front line of financial planning, people who have lots of money, people who have not so much money. And I would say someone's self-worth, which is what's defining, is not irrespective, but definitely

not linked and strictly linked. Lots of people who don't have a lot of money have a high sense of self-worth and are very happy even though it's frustrating. And lots of people who have lots of money have very low self-worth, very low self-esteem. And so, I would say that they are not necessarily, one does not define the other. Do you have one bit of advice for parents to get their kids to read this book? That's a great question.

It's hard. No, it's a great question. So I have like, number one, there's the keen teen who wants to read it, so like that's a slam dunk. Number two, if your teen is resisting, I've had parents that have literally paid their children to read it. So for example, I will open you an investment account

and I will put $50 in there, 100 bucks or something, read this book, then we'll talk and you can do whatever you want. I'll trade for you on that account. That was interesting. That's happened a few times. And then I've also, some of the more challenging situations where, you know, teens have access to parent money and then they're overspending and it's a big fight. Parents saying like, we're pausing support for a second.

We're all going to read this book as a team. We're going to come back to the table and we're going to redefine the boundaries because I want to give you money, I want to support you, but I also can't stand this fighting and I feel like it's never enough. So, I'm going to read this book, you're going to read this book, and we're going to talk about it as a family. We're going to make this a plan together going forward. And so, again, that's using money to not cut them off, but pause the funds. Or bribe them to read the book. Or bribe them to read the book, but you know what? I mean, they're teenagers, yeah. You need to motivate it for them.

If they're not a keen teen, you need to motivate it and make it exciting. And the nice thing about the book that I've heard is that because it reads like a novel and not like a textbook, once they crack it, it goes pretty fast. So that's really rewarding too. Shannon Lee Simmons, thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.