The Current - How to fix Canada’s ‘broken” sports system

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

"The Canadian sports system is in crisis." That was the message from Justice Lise Maisonneuve, head of Future of Sport in Canada Commission, which released 71 preliminary recommendations that aim to address a number of issues, including mental, physical and sexual abuse in sports. We also speak to former elite athlete and abuse survivor, Amelia Cline, who says the ball is now in the Fed's court to act.

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Tees and Cs apply. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Maltreatment in sport, including physical punishment, sexual assault, training while injured, humiliation, intimidation, isolation tactics, failures to provide medical care, discrimination and exploitation, continue to permeate at all levels. That is not what any athlete or parent of a young athlete wants to. hear. Canada's sport system is broken and in crisis. That is the message from Justice

Lee's Mezzanuf, head of the Future of Sport in Canada Commission. Her preliminary report makes 71 recommendations aimed at addressing abuse in sport and systemic issues. And beginning today, the report's findings and recommendations will be discussed at the National Summit on the Future of Sport. Justice Lees Mezenev, good morning. Good morning. When you talk about a broken system, what does that look like to you? That's a very good question, Matt. The It's important for Canadians to know that when we as a commission refer to the broken system, we're talking about the system as a whole, from governance, lack of funding, severe lack of funding, from the complaints mechanism and so on.

The system as a whole is broken, not just one part. And then there are specifics that look at some of the very real ways that people encounter that system in crisis. Tell me a little bit about why abuse is more important. prevalent at the community grassroots level? The simple fact, Matt, that there's many more people in the grassroots level, and we have, of course, and rightly so, fewer elite athletes, it's a bit like a pyramid. So just by sheer volume, you would have more of this maltreatment at the grassroots level. Part of this comes up in how those athletes, those young athletes, are steered through the system

and the people that they encounter, including coaches. One of the things that comes out in this report is that there are people who have lifetime coaching bands who are still coaching at clubs and associations that claim to have screening policies in place. That to me seems at the root level of addressing a system that is broken, a system that is in crisis, a system that might be riddled with abuse. How is it that people who shouldn't be coaching are allowed anywhere near the system? Many have raised this with us out of the 850 people that we interviewed is that there is no central registry in Canada where the names of individuals who have been, for example, banned, as you say, for another organizations to be able to check. The important point here is prevention. And one of the prevention tools that we strongly recommend the federal government and the provincial and territorial governments to create. is a registry that would be available from province to province,

territory to territory and at the federal level, to verify and have a name of an individual, if that individual has been banned, so that there is not the risk that that individual then ends up in another sport or in another sport organization. You also suggest that there has long been a culture of silence in Canadian amateur sport when it comes to cases of alleged abuse. What does that culture of silence look like?

Matt, the culture of silence when it comes to abuse generally exist everywhere in our society. But we found and we heard from Canadians that there is a serious culture of silence in the sports system in Canada from the grassroots to the elite sports. And there are many, many reasons that were advanced for that. One of them is that often there is repercussions to the individual who chooses to break the silence. There's also a real fear of losing financing for your sport organizations, not only for yourself as an athlete, but also for your teammates, because many of these sports are funded by governments. And sometimes, and we've seen this in the past, the reaction when someone has disclosed maltreatment, in some cases, it has been that the funding has been removed. And to remove funding to these organizations, and I'm now speaking about all levels, but very much so in the high performance, is very serious because there is an urgent need for funding to be increased, including for the high performance athletes in Canada who, you know, we're also proud of when we see winning medals and we have to continue with them winning medals. One of the most surprising things in this report is that we use this phrase safe sport a lot,

but we don't seem to have an agreed-upon definition of what safe support is. Why is that? And what are the implications of that? Well, safe sport can mean many different things, many different people. And I don't think that's a bad thing. However, I think that there needs to be a clear education on what is safe sport. And what is that line that you shouldn't be crossing when, for example, you're in charge of the organization or you're the coach or you're an athlete dealing with

another athlete, for example. And of course, you saw that in our report, we used the definition that is being used in the Universal Code of Conduct that the federal government has adopted. However, like anything else in society, it's a concept that would be evolving and changing. For example, we've heard about maltreatment with comments that are made on social media. Well, that didn't exist before. And that's a concept that's new. And I think that we need to continue to always redefine safe sports, especially if it's going to be in any legislation or in any code of conduct and needs to be part of education.

I just wonder why it's so difficult for people to agree. I mean, the definition that you use is free from maltreatment. That seems very basic. Why is it difficult for people to agree upon that definition? That's a good question. It's one, I think it's based on many factors. It's perhaps based on old. ways of doing things in sport.

It's based on a lack of education. It's based on not having a clear understanding of what certain conducts can do to other individuals. So I think the key now is to sit down, have the conversation and define it properly. You said that safe sport and the concept of safe sport can be dogged by fatigue. What is that fatigue and where does that come from?

What's happened, which is a really good thing, is that we've been talking about safe sport lately, And you know that this commission was called as a result of many coming forward and, you know, including very important standing committees that were done at the federal government. And I think we came in very quickly with a whole bunch of solutions without any overall plan and that people, they're hearing about safe sport, which is really important. But there needs to be a plan to educate properly and not have, for example, you know, multiple different. courses, for example, to take on safe sport. And that's why we recommend a uniform plan on

education so that sport organization has, they all have the same tool to go to, and everyone knows what they need to do to educate themselves on safe sport and not repeating it numerous times. But I suppose part of this is about people believing that this is important. One of the things you talk about is safe sport becoming weaponized, saying that it's often used as a verb. This is a quotation, we're going to safe sport you being said in a threatening or punitive way. Yes. Where does that come from, do you think? Well, we've heard from individuals that they felt that safe sport was being used improperly.

And the one point that comes out of that, Matt, is that whatever process is in place to deal with safe sport needs to have due process for everyone. And a process that has due process is one that is going to be. respected and it will have credibility. Your report has more than 70 recommendations. Last year, the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage made over 20 recommendations to address abuse in amateur sport. Why are you confident, maybe you aren't confident, but why are you confident that these recommendations will be taken more seriously than recommendations that have been made in past? It's important to note, Matt, that the standing committees did incredible work, and actually

they informed our work. And we reviewed those recommendations. carefully. I would say that the difference here is the first time that there is a report that deals with the entire sports system and not just maltreatment. And I hope that we, in our final report, that we'll be able to continue to develop a bit of a roadmap as to how do we fix the system as a whole. It's more of a holistic approach to be able to ensure that a healthy system is a safe system. And what I mean by healthy, I mean everything that goes into the system and it includes governance. It includes funding. So that's where I think it's different. Do you think that healthy sports should be tied to the funding, the idea that if you don't clean up

your act in how you treat the athletes that are under your care, that the funding will be in jeopardy, that that might motivate sports organizations, for example, to act with the urgency that's required here. That's been the past. Matt, that's happened in the past. When there's been disclosure of maltreatment, some funding has been removed in certain support organizations at all levels. And I come back to my earlier point. I think we'd have to look at that very carefully because what you don't want to do is to encourage a culture of silencing. This is an issue that we've spoken about extensively on the program. And one of the guests that we've spoken with in past is the former Minister of Sport, Kirstie Duncan, who talked about why this continues to be

an issue that still festers away. And one of the things that she had said was at the highest levels of government, for example, people believed that with sport, the goal was winning. You talked about how proud we are when athletes perform, and that that pride in many ways prevented people from addressing this because we want a good story when it comes to sport. And if we uncover what's under the hood, perhaps that good story is threatened. Do you think that she has a point in in terms of why it's so difficult to address this in a meaningful way? I think she has a point, but I think there's a way to address it because I talk about the pride, because we did also meet numerous individuals who had a very good experience in

sport, and they have the metal around their neck, and they have no complaints of maltreatment. But we do need to learn to win well as a society. And I think that if people take our recommendations, the people who have the power to do so and make the required changes, we're going to get there. Sport has enormous benefits to the individual, to society, and yet there are parents who worry about putting their kids into sports because of these stories of abuse that we have talked about. What do you think will show them that real change is unfolding?

In our recommendations, we make many recommendations to reassure parents that it is safe because we need to continue to be involved in sport. We need to continue to be active. And there's numerous reasons for that. I don't need to tell you those. And I think that if the systems start to be more uniform, that if we start to be consistent across Canada on our processes, on our policies, and that people see that, it will reassure the public that it's safe to put your kids in sport.

And actually, there are many benefits to doing so. And you're optimistic that change can finally happen. I hope so. So do I. Justice Mizanov, it's good to speak with you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Matt. Justice Lees Mezzanuf is the Commissioner of the Future of Sport in Canada,

commission. This podcast is brought you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend, and receive up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Plus, Wise won't add hidden fees to your transfer. Whether you're buying souvenirs with pesos in Puerto Vallarta or sending euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. Tise and C's Apply. Okay, so how come a film about a Canadian icon, John Candy, produced by a Canadian star, Ryan Reynolds, kicking off Canada's biggest film festival, still doesn't count as a Canadian

movie. Well, to understand weird little nuances like that, you just have to listen to commotion. We're doing TIF and 12 every single weekday during the Toronto International Film Festival, and we have our best critics in town explaining stuff like this, all in under, 12 minutes. Find commotion with me, Al-Abel-Mahmoud, wherever you get your podcast, including YouTube. Amelia Klein is managing director of Athletes Empowered and a former elite athlete herself. Amelia, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. Justice Mezzanuff says that sport in this country, the system that governs it, the system that facilitates it is broken. How deep do you think that rot goes? Goes all the way to the bottom, all the way to the top. It's right through

and through our system. And I think something that her report has really done well is identifying that this is a crisis and it's not just in one element or one aspect of our sport system. It permeates the entirety of the system. And we need to actually look at our entire sport delivery across this country in order to fix it. You have experience with this. And I know that you've spoken about it in past, but it's still, I'm sure, difficult to talk about it. How would you describe your own experience as a young gymnast? You know, I would describe it as quite a common experience, actually, unfortunately. But I started gymnastics like many do when I was about two years old. I was quickly identified as a child who had potential. And so I sort of moved up the ranks

relatively quickly. You know, I was competing by the time I was seven. And then by the time I was about 10, my gym, which was a healthy environment, essentially said, we can't take you any further, but you have so much potential. Why don't you try this other elite program? So I started there and for the first year or so it was okay and it was obviously more intense training than I was used to but it was still what I would consider a healthy environment and then we had a changeover in coaches and for the last three years of my career I had a husband and wife coaching team that were incredibly abusive and exposed us to a variety of maltreatment all the way from emotional and psychological abuse to physical violence as well. as really unhealthy training regimes that had us experiencing overuse injuries and just constantly injured in really severe ways. And that ultimately caused me to leave the sport. When you say, and I don't mean to, again, dwell on the painful parts of the past, when you say severe injuries, I mean, what you left the program with as a young woman,

as a teenager, were horrific injuries, right? Yeah. So, I mean, in those three years that I was with those coaches, I tore a muscle off my spine that caused a huge blood clot in my back. I broke my hand in three places. And then my coach actually tore my hamstring off my pelvis and took the tip of my pelvis with it when he was overstretching me. So those are a few examples. My teammates could run off a litany of just really graphic injuries that we were experiencing

that shouldn't be normal in a healthy environment. That's awful to hear. This is the question that I asked Justice Ms. Enough, which is, how does something like this happen? How do people who could do that? How do they have any access to young athletes? How are they at all in that system? It's completely normalized. So this, in my particular case, these coaches were brought in by the head coach of the national program.

So they called our gym. They said, you must hire these coaches. You have no choice. If you don't hire these coaches, you will not have an elite program anymore. and they were brought in, immediately we identified that there were issues. The parents were up in arms. They were concerned about the coaching methods that were being employed, raised concerns with the highest levels of our sporting organization, and they said, this is what you have

to do to win. So when the commissioner speaks about this winning at all cost mentality and diverting our resources to elite sport, these are the consequences of that. And if you speak up about it, you're labeled, as she says in the report, you're labeled a troublemaker, right? Absolutely. There's so many examples of retaliation, of careers being threatened if you speak up. I, myself, was essentially blacklisted from the sport when I came forward after I left that gym, and I didn't feel like I could continue in the sport afterwards.

What about the people who perpetrated that abuse? Whatever happened to them? There was a complaint, so we lodged a complaint. There was an investigation. They were made to do some anger management courses and some child development courses. And then my coach was at the Olympics the very next year. What does that phrase safe sport mean to you? Again, one of the things that this report talks about is that there isn't an agreed-upon definition of what safe sport is.

What does that mean to you? Honestly, it feels like it's become a buzzword. It almost feels like it's become a brand. And as you say, there is no sort of agreed-upon definition. And I think because it's so nebulous and no one can really agree on it, it means that no one's really being held to a standard. So, you know, when we say safe sport, to some people, that means, oh, well, we have, you know, the rule of two, meaning that, you know, no coaches alone with an athlete, and that's sufficient. To other people, it means, oh, well, you know, of course we just, we don't sexually abuse people. And so because there's no real concrete definition of it, people can kind of make.

it what they want. And I think that's part of the problem. And so what should it mean, do you think? I mean, I think the commissioner has gotten close, free from maltreatment, which means, you know, really truly free from maltreatment. I think our problem is that we've so normalized what maltreatment looks like in sport that we don't even necessarily realize that some of these behaviors are problematic. So when we're talking about abuse in sport, a lot of, you know, the psychological and emotional violence that we see happening are often, continually sort of dismissed as tough coaching and necessary to win.

But there are behaviors that we would never accept in any other context. So if you have a child who's taking a math test and that teacher comes over and just starts screaming at them and calling them names and saying that they're never going to amount to anything in front of all their peers, that would never be accepted. That teacher would be fired immediately. But we do that in sport. And we say, oh, well, you know, that's what's necessary for them to be motivated to win. But if we accept that as abusive behavior in one context, we have to accept it as abusive in another.

I'll let you go. But do you think, I mean, Justice is hopeful that this time will be different. People have looked at safe sport and making sports safe in this country for years. And there is great frustration among people like yourself that the ball has not moved down the field, if I can put it that way. Are you confident that this time is going to be different? You know, I derive my hope from survivors and advocates who have gotten very, very loud in the most recent years. There's been a lot of work done over the decades, but I think we've reached a point where our society is becoming more aware of these issues. This report now says we have a crisis. That's not something that can just be swept under the rug from my perspective.

And I think we've reached a point where survivors are coming forward. and feel more confident in their voices. They're finding each other. And there's power in those numbers. So that's where I find my optimism and my hope is that survivors are not going to let this lie. This is not going to be a report that sits on a shelf. We're going to continue to be loud about this. We'll speak again. In the meantime, I'm glad to talk to you about this this morning. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Amelia Klein is a former elite athlete and managing director of athletes empowered. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.